Mueller indicts Russian trolls, laying the groundwork for the next phase of his investigation

Earlier today, we learned that, in addition to porn star Stormy Daniels, Donald Trump was also having an affair with Playboy “Playmate of the Year” Karen McDougal back in 2006, in the months just after our First Lady, Melania Trump, gave birth to their son Barron. Furthermore, we got confirmation that McDougal, like Daniels, had also ben paid for her silence by a Trump associate. And, as if that we’re enough for a single news cycle, we also learned that Daniels is now threatening to go public with a dress covered in the President’s semen. In simpler times, the existence of the cum-soaked dress alone would have dominated headlines for a month. Today, though, it barely registered. Between yesterday’s mass shooting in Florida, and today’s indictments in the Russia investigation, no one, it seems, has time to care about good, old fashioned sex scandals, even ones involving porn stars, Playmates and soiled dresses.

I’d told myself yesterday that I was going to try to stay focused on our American gun problem for a while, and now allow my attention to be diverted elsewhere… But then the Justice Department announced that Special Counsel Robert Mueller had handed down new indictments, and my plans went out the window. Instead of studying up on the role Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi played in making it easier for Sunshine State teens to purchase automatic weapons, I started reading up on the thirteen Russian citizens and the three Russian companies who now stand accused of running “interference operations targeting the United States” in the run up to the 2016 election… While you can read the indictments in their entirety online, here’s one of my favorite parts.

So, yeah, we know now for a certainty that “the Russia thing,” as Trump called it, wasn’t a “witch hunt” at all, but a serious, coordinated attack on our electoral system, which was conducted with the intention of sowing discord in America, and keeping Hillary Clinton from the White House. We now know how the system worked, and who was involved… from Putin’s friend, the oligarch Yevgeny V. Prigozhin, who funded Russia’s Internet Research Agency troll farm, to American citizen Richard Pinedo, who supplied the fake bank account numbers and online identities that allowed the Russians to avoid initial detection. [While he wasn’t mentioned in today’s indictments by name, news was released by the Justice Department today that Pinedo had pleaded guilty on February 12, and was facing up to 15 years in prison.] Here, from the New York Times, is a short clip explaining how the Prigozhin-funded system worked.

…Facebook, Twitter and Google have all identified the Internet Research Agency as a prime source of provocative posts on divisive American issues, including race, religion, gun laws and gay rights, particularly during the 2016 presidential election. Facebook found, for example, that the agency had posted 80,000 pieces of content that reached more than 126 million Americans…

[David Axelrod: “Jill Stein received 50,700 votes in MI. Trump won by less than 12,000. She outpolled Trump’s margin in WI, as well. If Russians sought to redirect alienated HRC voters to third parties, as indictment alleges, it was a shrewd ploy.]

And here’s another interesting little tidbit. According to the Anti-Corruption Foundation, Prigozhin, in the past five years alone, has received Russian government contracts worth $3.1 billion… Oh, and Prigozhin was one of the Russian oligarchs who was hit hard by the sanctions levied during the Obama administration, which, might explain why he apparently invested so heavily in getting Donald Trump, who promised to roll back those sanctions, into office. [The Department of Justice is saying that the Russians spent $1.2 million a month on this project, which they called “The Translator Project.”]

Well, today, as you might imagine, Donald Trump and his spokespeople are claiming that these indictments actually vindicate him, as they don’t prove collusion. In fact, the White House issued a statement with “NO COLLUSION” in all caps. The thing is, the indictment says nothing of the kind. In fact, you can see in the above scan that “co-conspirators” are mentioned. They just haven’t been named yet, with the exception of Californian Richard Pinedo, who is now said to be cooperating with Robert Mueller. But, no, Mueller did not come out today and demonstrate a connection to the Trump White House. What he did today, however, was take a significant step in that direction. He laid a solid foundation, and demonstrated how the whole thing worked, making it clear not only that the Russians did in fact meddle in our election, but that they did so to both weaken Clinton and advance the Trump campaign.

I heard someone on Fox News this evening suggest that Trump never either claimed that the Russia investigation was a hoax or attempted to slow the investigation. Here, in case any of you are inclined to believe that, are just a few data points.

1. Trump warned that Mueller’s investigation has offended Putin, and that “people will die” if it continues.

2. Trump admitted to firing FBI Director James Comey because he was pursuing, “the Russia thing.” [Trump on national television: “And, in fact, when I decided to just do it, I said to myself, I said: ‘You know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made up story, it’s an excuse by the Democrats for having lost an election that they should’ve won.’”]

3. Not only did he fire Comey for pushing the Russia investigation, but Trump actually snuck a high-level Russian delegation into the White House that same day to tell them the good news.

4. Trump repeatedly called the Russia investigation a “witch hunt,” and did everything in his power to slow it down. For example, Trump ghostwrote a letter for his son, explaining the presence of a Russian delegation at Trump Tower during the campaign as having been about adoption policy, and not the fact that they’d offered “dirt” on Hillary Clinton.

5. Trump told us that he asked Putin if the Russians meddled in our election, and he believed him when the former KGB head responded that he did not. [“He said he didn’t meddle. He said he didn’t meddle. I asked him again. You can only ask so many times,” Trump told reporters aboard Air Force One as he flew from Da Nang to Hanoi in Vietnam. Trump spoke to Putin three times on the sidelines of summit here, where the Russia meddling issue arose. “Every time he sees me, he says, ‘I didn’t do that,'” Trump said. “And I believe, I really believe, that when he tells me that, he means it.”]

6. Despite the evidence, and the fact that all but five members of Congress voted to pass sanctions against Russia for what they did during the 2016 election, Trump chose not to impose them, saying that the threat of acting on them was just as effective as actually enacting them.

7. And let’s not forget the time our president actually proposed, much to the horror of the intelligence community, that we give the Russians access to our security infrastructure, forming a “U.S.-Russia Joint Impenetrable Cybersecurity Unit.

So, no, you cannot now say that Trump has always taken this threat seriously. When our entire intelligence community told him that the Russians had meddled in our election, he called it a “with hunt.” After being told that the Dutch had actually observed the Russians as they hacked into the DNC server, he told the American people that the operation could have been conducted by a 400-pound guy somewhere. When Congress and the intelligence community demanded that the President take action to protect the integrity of our 2018 election, he did nothing. And, today, when these indictments came out, instead of pledging to hold Russia accountable, he took to Twitter and said, “It’s time we stop the outlandish partisan attacks, wild and false allegations, and far-fetched theories.” [Coming from the father of Birtherism, I found that last bit particularly funny.]

So, like I said, we now have the foundation. From this point on, it’s just a matter of understanding the coordination, and how the Russians knew where to focus their efforts… According to the indictment, we have evidence that the Russians talked quite a bit about sowing discord in “purple states.” What’s more, we know that a great deal of their ad buys were in states like Michigan, which the Democrats didn’t even consider to be in play, which would lead one to believe there was a certain level of sophistication. So, one suspects it’s possible that the next shoe to drop very well might be a link between one of these 13 Russians and someone at the conservative data analytics firm Cambridge Analytica… Speaking of which, here’s an interesting little exchange between the guys at Pod Save America and Senator Mark Warner.

As of right now, it’s true, there’s no evidence that these Russian activities changed the result of the election. And it’s doubtful that could ever be proved. But, as some people are seeing it, that’s exactly what happened. Take, for instance, former CIA Director John Brennan.

I’m hesitant to make predictions, as I know enormous cases like these can take years, but i can’t help but think that the final chapter has begun, and that things are about to speed up exponentially, as the backstabbing intensifies, and the bodies start stacking up… Have you seen the last ten minutes of The Godfather? Well, I think it’ll be pretty much like that.

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179 Comments

  1. Bill Madden by proxy
    Posted February 16, 2018 at 10:47 pm | Permalink

    @maddow makes an interesting point. While Trump is correct that Russia started their criminal conspiracy pior to his announcing his candidacy — it’s also a fact that Russia began its assault on our republic immediately after Trump returned from his Moscow beauty pageant. #maddow

  2. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 16, 2018 at 11:42 pm | Permalink

    The witch hunt is phony collusion claims. Don’t try to bend everything to fit your “narrative.”

  3. Jean Henry
    Posted February 16, 2018 at 11:57 pm | Permalink

    Bannon used ‘executive privilege’ to stonewalled congress on advice from White House counsel. But he cant do that with Mueller, according to same counsel. I don’t understand the legal argument but I guess using it with congress undercuts Bannon or any white house staff’s ability to do the same with Mueller. And Bannon met first over two days with Mueller. Details about meetings of interest and how money laundering could lead to Trump here: https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/politics/steve-bannon-robert-mueller/index.html

  4. Jean Henry
    Posted February 16, 2018 at 11:59 pm | Permalink

    HW– We’re just waiting to see the results of the investigation. Unlike you, we don’t make foolish pronouncements about what the future holds.

    You only like some witch hunts I guess.

  5. Jean Henry
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 12:03 am | Permalink

    Re Cambridge Analytica: “Before joining the Trump campaign, Bannon was on the board of Cambridge Analytica, a data company that worked on the campaign.
    Cambridge Analytica CEO Alexander Nix, who contacted WikiLeaks in June 2016 to ask about Hillary Clinton’s emails, testified before the House Intelligence Committee in December. And Mueller asked for the company’s emails last fall, according to The Wall Street Journal.
    Just three months after Nix contacted WikiLeaks, it exchanged private messages on Twitter with Trump Jr. In most of the messages from late September 2016, which Trump Jr. later released to the public, WikiLeaks asked Trump Jr. to share its materials on social media. Trump Jr. sent an email about the conversation to Bannon and a group of other senior Trump campaign officials, according to The Atlantic, and Mueller could press for additional information on those exchanges.”

  6. Anonymous
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 12:08 am | Permalink

    Phony collusion, an in George Papadopoulos was talking about the hacked Democratic emails in a London bar before the DNC even knew they’d been breached?

  7. Anonymous
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 7:18 am | Permalink

    Trump’s National Security Advisor.

    BREAKING: McMaster: “With FBI indictment, evidence of Russian interference [in US elections] is incontrovertible.”

  8. EOS
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 7:23 am | Permalink

    So 13 Russian nationals and 3 Russian groups posted on Instagram and Facebook. And everybody here wants to hang Trump for treason because you’re sure he must have colluded. It doeesn’t make sense. There was certainly no shortage of Americans who hated Clinton and who posted messages without anyone’s prompting. What is the motivation for Trump to work with foreigners to post on social media?

    We should be asking what is it about Clinton that makes the Russians so opposed to her agenda? Could it be her cabal of globalists hell bent on world domination that provoked the ire of Russians?

  9. Anonymous
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 7:27 am | Permalink

    Watch this BBC footage about Cambridge Analytica and the Trump data operation.

    https://twitter.com/adamparkhomenko/status/964739107065942016

  10. Anonymous
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 7:30 am | Permalink

    “Without anyone’s prompting.”

    Sounds good, except for the fact that I remember Trump on stage asking for the Russians to hack Clinton’s emails.

  11. Anonymous
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 7:32 am | Permalink

    And let’s say that you’re right, EOS, and there was no collusion, why then would Trump engage in his campaign of obstruction as outlined above?

  12. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 7:36 am | Permalink

    “HW– We’re just waiting to see the results of the investigation. ”

    What happened to “We have a narrative and we can’t let go!”

  13. EOS
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 7:42 am | Permalink

    Trump has an agenda for what he wants his administration to accomplish. All this is just a distraction. All he has done is call this the bullshit that it is and attempt to refocus on the primary goals.

  14. Sad
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 8:05 am | Permalink

    Q knows the Clintons. And Trump.

    http://www.vulture.com/2018/02/quincy-jones-in-conversation.html

  15. Jean Henry
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 8:08 am | Permalink

    Hw: in what context did I say ‘we have a narrative and can’t let go!”…? I don’t recall. Sounds like sarcasm, especially the exclamation point. I have said from the beginning as have most people here (not everyone on the left) that we need to be patient and sit it out.

    EOS once again goes for the FOX news tactic of picking out one piece of a complex issue and drawing it into question to assert the entire investigation is a sham. This is a big complex gorgon of an investigation. Not nearly over. If Trump isn’t guilt, he needn’t worry, right? He can go about his business of working 3 hours a day 4 days a week to make the country great again.

  16. wobblie
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 8:12 am | Permalink

    Just like with Watergate you start with the crime. 13 indictments, one guilty plea. Not to mention, the separate strands of money laundering-more charges against Manafort were also announced, and lies told to the FBI, still waiting for the Flyn plea deal also I believe a couple of plea deals involved with that strand.
    Also just like with Watergate, small fish get swept up first, some not directly tied to the conspiracy but tangential associates. What is lacking is aggressive Congressional investigations. That is likely to change as more and more Republicans see how this is playing out, if not this year then after the November election when many will be swept from office. If not collusion, obstruction of justice is becoming more and more obvious. Just like with Watergate.

    EOS and HW obviously have not read the indictment. The Russian operation spent over one million a month over 2 years. Enlisted and duped many Americans to act as their footmen in the campaign, holding rallies. What no one has talked much about yet is how the Russian activities continued post election, organizing both pro and anti Trump rallies. This is how the US has operated in many countries over the last 50 years. Any student of history of Empires will tell you what goes on in the periphery eventually makes it way back to the center. Until we end our ceaseless wars you can count on Russia, China and others trying to influence and effect the course of our elections. It is as given as the sun rising tomorrow.

    Like with Watergate, it unlikely altered the results of the election, though given the closeness of the vote counts in key states the probability is much higher. Nixon was a paranoid, Trump is simply an opportunist and narcisist.

  17. EOS
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    Wobblie,
    I do agree with you entirely in that the United States has operated like this in other countries for at least the last 50 years. There was 100% confidence at the beginning of this “investigation” that we would find that Russia also uses the Internet to engage with propaganda. That was a given. What is different is that the Democratic Party and the mainstream media are treating this as if it is novel and that it is evidence that Trump colluded. It’s all a smokescreen to deflect attention from prosecuting Clinto for her crimes in office and her collusion with the Russians.

  18. wobblie
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    EOS the choice does not need to be your evil v their evil. There are alternatives to the plutocracy. Support only those politicians who refuse to take corporate money. Support only those politicians who will vote for a constitutional amendment to reverse Citizens United. Support only those politicians who will vote to lower defense spending and bring the troops home.

  19. EOS
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 9:08 am | Permalink

    As an individual, my only hope to influence government is to join PACs of like minded individuals and contribute to candidates that support our causes. I would never vote to reverse Citizens United because it would destroy the only avenue we have to compete with big money. I do support full disclosure of all contributions and would use that information to inform my vote.

  20. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    “Hw: in what context did I say ‘we have a narrative and can’t let go!”…? I don’t recall.”

    Was I talking to you in the first place? You answered my comment to MM with a general statement about how “we” are just waiting for the result. How do you speak for the group but don’t remember Mark Maynard saying that hilarious quote about “We have a narrative and we can’t let go of it?”

  21. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    ‘HW obviously has not read the indictment. The Russian operation spent over one million a month over 2 years. Enlisted and duped many Americans to act as their footmen in the
    campaign, holding rallies…”

    I read enough to get the upshot: these activities had no effect on the election. You are correct about these kinds of things being expected. This is boy scout stuff compared to assassinations and coups and so on. Why have the intelligence community and media used it against President Trump?

  22. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 9:26 am | Permalink

    Did Kerry’s State Department give two of them visas in 2014?

  23. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 10:03 am | Permalink

    To enter the United States, KRYLOVA, BOGACHEVA, R. BOVDA, and another
    co-conspirator applied to the U.S. Department of State for visas to travel. During
    their application process, KRYLOVA, BOGACHEVA, R. BOVDA, and their co-
    conspirator falsely claimed they were traveling for personal reasons and did not
    fully disclose their place of employment to hide the fact that they worked for the
    ORGANIZATION.

    c. Only KRYLOVA and BOGACHEVA received visas, and from approximately June
    4, 2014 through June 26, 2014, KRYLOVA and BOGACHEVA traveled in and
    around the United States, including stops in Nevada, California, New Mexico,
    Colorado, Illinois, Michigan, Louisiana, Texas, and New York to gather
    intelligence. After the trip, KRYLOVA and BURCHIK exchanged an intelligence
    report regarding the trip.

  24. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 10:06 am | Permalink

    *formatting off but you get the point

  25. EOS
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 10:35 am | Permalink

    https://lawandcrime.com/opinion/does-mueller-indictment-mean-clinton-campaign-can-be-indicted-for-chris-steele/

  26. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    JFK on Cold War challenges in balancing the need for official secrets with the need for greater public knowledge.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdMbmdFOvTs

  27. Iron Lung
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 10:55 am | Permalink

    “I would never vote to reverse Citizens United because it would destroy the only avenue we have to compete with big money.”

    Well, that’s good because the people don’t get to vote to overturn SCOTUS decisions.

    I’m convinced that much of the readership of this site needs to revisit “Schoolhouse Rock.”

  28. Eel
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    Go watch Fox News. They’re blaming Obama.

    https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/964869952128913409

  29. Posted February 17, 2018 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    “We should be asking what is it about Clinton that makes the Russians so opposed to her agenda?”

    I hope I’m reading this wrong, EOS, but it sounds as though you’re saying that it’s OK that the Russians interfered in our election, as they had legitimate concerns about Clinton.

  30. Posted February 17, 2018 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    “As an individual, my only hope to influence government is to join PACs of like minded individuals and contribute to candidates that support our causes.”

    Incorrect again, EOS. Joining a PAC is not your only chance to be heard. You can join the fight to keep money out of politics, and level the playing field.

  31. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    “Go watch Fox News. They’re blaming Obama.”

    I just posted part of the indictment showing Obama’s SoS allowed them in.

    Then there is this little problem:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9ZgLJyxDP0

    NBC News
    Published on Dec 15, 2016

    High level intelligence sources tell NBC Nightly News that the Obama administration thought Hillary Clinton would win, and didn’t want to risk a cyber escalation with Russia.

  32. Posted February 17, 2018 at 11:11 am | Permalink

    And, yes, I did say, when the Trump Tower meeting became known, that enough of the pieces had fallen in place to give us a plausible narrative as to how all of this went down. And I did say that we had to stick with it, and see where it led, which was what I meant by “not letting go.” I still believe that. I didn’t, however, say with authority that Trump would be arrested, the way you did about Clinton and Podesta. I don’t claim to have all of the facts. At the same time, though, I’m not so stupid as not to be able to see the there’s a pattern of obstruction here which would indicate prior knowledge on the part of the President. I think, by now, that should be pretty clear to all Americans capable of rational thought.

  33. Iron Lung
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    “We should be asking what is it about Clinton that makes the Russians so opposed to her agenda?”

    I might be wrong, but Russia doesn’t get a say in who holds office in the United States. I might be wrong though.

    Regardless, if Russia is opposed to Clinton, then she must have been doing something right. Vladimir Putin’s Russia is not our friend. In fact, everything about Vladimir Putin is the opposite of what we think of when we think of American ideals. Why should we appease Russia? This makes no sense.

    Since when did right wingers in the US become so friendly towards Vladimir Putin? I just don’t get it.

  34. Posted February 17, 2018 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    HW, as we now know, Obama went to McConnell and tried to negotiate a public statement on what was happening, but McConnell stopped it from happening. But, yes, I suspect Obama might have tried harder to come out with the information, had he thought Clinton might lose, and the Russian candidate might win. I don’t think, in his eyes, it was likely a Republican v. Democrat thing. And I think that’s what you’re having a difficult time understanding. Trump isn’t a Republican. This isn’t about ideology. This is about national security, and the fact that we know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that a hostile foreign government meddled in our election and their candidate won. That should be a concern to everyone. As for the Republican party, it’s dead. Trump, like a hermit crab, just climbed inside its empty shell. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you can join the rest of us at the adults’ table.

  35. Posted February 17, 2018 at 11:20 am | Permalink

    “Since when did right wingers in the US become so friendly towards Vladimir Putin? I just don’t get it.”

    He’s a white, male, tough guy who fucks hot broads and has his enemies killed. What’s not to like? He’s the kind of macho man that all these wannabe tough guys in Trump’s base aspire to be.

  36. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    “I’m not so stupid as not to be able to see the there’s a pattern of obstruction here which would indicate prior knowledge on the part of the President. I think, by now, that should be pretty clear to all Americans capable of rational thought.”

    It still hasn’t dawned on you that the whole thing could be trumped up and the evidence is increasing that your fave politicians did just that. I know it is hard to imagine everything you think is wrong but it can help bust you out of the mental box.

  37. Posted February 17, 2018 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    “Only KRYLOVA and BOGACHEVA received visas, and from approximately June
    4, 2014 through June 26, 2014, KRYLOVA and BOGACHEVA traveled in and
    around the United States, including stops in Nevada, California, New Mexico,
    Colorado, Illinois, Michigan, Louisiana, Texas, and New York to gather
    intelligence. After the trip, KRYLOVA and BURCHIK exchanged an intelligence
    report regarding the trip.”

    You have nothing, HW. What’s your point here? Are you saying that the Obama administration had a hand in all of this because, before it was known that a conspiracy was underway, the State Department granted visitor visas to two of the named conspirators? You do know that millions of people from foreign countries visit the United States each year, right? Do you reckon Kerry and his staff should have been able to see the future?

  38. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    “the Russian candidate”

    How can you say that’s Trump when they had anti-Trump rallies too? Hillary Clinton is straight up owned by them after taking the 145 million. If they wanted to ‘interfere’ with our election why didn’t they do something more effective? The indictments do not indicate there was any effect. Rinky dink shit.

  39. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 11:32 am | Permalink

    “You have nothing, HW. What’s your point here? Are you saying that the Obama administration had a hand in all of this because, before it was known that a conspiracy was underway, the State Department granted visitor visas to two of the named conspirators? You do know that millions of people from foreign countries visit the United States each year, right? Do you reckon Kerry and his staff should have been able to see the future?”

    I expect the US government should be able to identify foreign agents and stop them from interfering with our elections. Too much to ask when your peeps are running the show I’m sure.

  40. Jean Henry
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    “Do you reckon Kerry and his staff should have been able to see the future?” HW believes he can foresee the future (despite all evidence to the contrary) and so has that expectation of others.

    Anyone who does not see what HW sees is a fool and an idiot. That’s why he’s the perfect autocratic stool pigeon.

    Weren’t we supposed to be stunned, shocked and have our entire world views upended by now?

    PS HW– The Russians organized anti-Trump rallies AFTER the election to sow more division. Get your facts straight.

  41. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    Think about what they did. A Trump rally in NYC, where he didn’t even campaign and an anti-Trump one on the same day. It’s purely to cause trouble.

  42. Jean Henry
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 11:42 am | Permalink

    Both HW and EOS are becoming painfully dull and predictable. Can we court some reasonable conservatives to comment here? Maybe some who have a clue about due process or a basic 6th grade level understanding of civics…and maybe they aren’t quite so dripping in moral certainty and paranoia.

  43. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 11:45 am | Permalink

    “Anyone who does not see what HW sees is a fool and an idiot. That’s why he’s the perfect autocratic stool pigeon.”

    First sentence is a mischaracterization of what I say. If you feel a little bit like a fool or idiot deep down inside then that’s not my fault for sharing my information. Second sentence is a typical ad hominem smear from a fallacy junkie.

  44. Iron Lung
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 11:45 am | Permalink

    “Maybe some who have a clue about due process or a basic 6th grade level understanding of civics…”

    To be fair, the ignorance of civics on display in the comments section of this blog appears to cover a wide range of political ideologies.

  45. Jean Henry
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    “Think about what they did. A Trump rally in NYC, where he didn’t even campaign and an anti-Trump one on the same day. It’s purely to cause trouble.” –duh. It in know way proves that they didnt bat hard for a Trump win or even just a good showing against Clinto to limit her power should she take office. Obviously they played both sides of the fence, because their ultimate goal is to undermine our democratic process and the citizenry’s faith in it by magnifying partisan division etc. They dont love Trump. He’s a fool and they are using him to undermine our political process so they can continue to manipulate us and take over control on the world stage. Putin is not power hungry for anyone but himself. Trump is just the most obvious mark ever for his manipulation.

  46. Iron Lung
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 11:47 am | Permalink

    “That’s why he’s the perfect autocratic stool pigeon.”

    I think we call him a “chump” in common parlance.

  47. Jean Henry
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    “To be fair, the ignorance of civics on display in the comments section of this blog appears to cover a wide range of political ideologies.”– fair enough.

  48. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    Pure ad hominem garbage from you two as usual.

  49. Jean Henry
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 11:53 am | Permalink

    chump > synonyms
    338 Synonyms
    search?
    20 fool n.person, mark, object
    18 sucker n.person, mark, object
    15 patsy n.mark, object, fool
    14 gull n.mark, fool, dupe
    14 sap n.person, mark, object
    13 mark n.object, fool, subject
    11 dupe n.person, mark, object
    11 mug n.mark, sucker, boob
    10 fall guy n. & exp. & idi.mark, fool, subject
    10 dolt n.person, ability, fool
    9 blockhead n.person, ability, fool
    9 victim n.mark, informal, object
    7 clod n.person, ability, fool
    7 pushover n.mark, fool, dupe
    7 soft touch n. & exp. & idi.mark, dupe, mug
    7 jerk n.fool, sucker, boob
    7 nitwit n.fool, stupid, sap
    6 dunce n.ability, fool, stupid
    6 oaf n.person, fool, stupid
    6 pigeon n.mark, object, fool
    6 ass n.sucker, boob
    6 boob n.person, mark, fool
    6 idiot n.fool, stupid, sap
    6 moron n.fool, bust, brute
    6 stooge n.mark, fool, dupe
    5 butt n.mark, object, fool
    5 schlemiel n.mark, sucker, boob
    5 simpleton n.fool, stupid, sap
    5 twit n.sucker, boob
    5 Mark
    5 halfwit n.bust, sucker, dummy
    5 imbecile n.fool, brute, sucker
    4 ninny n.bust, sucker, dummy
    4 numskull n.ability, sucker, boob
    4 nincompoop n.fool, bust, brute
    4 noodle n.
    3 champ v.bite, mouth, chew
    3 chaw v. & phr. v.bite, mouth, champ
    3 chomp v.bite, mouth, chew
    3 easy mark n. & exp.mark, object, fool
    3 lunkhead n.person
    3 munch v.bite, mouth, chew
    3 asshole
    3 bean
    3 bonehead n.sucker, boob
    3 booby n.
    3 chew v.grind, bite, mouth
    3 crunch v.bite, mouth
    3 dimwit n.slang, ability, fool
    3 dope n.fool, stupid, sap
    3 dullard n.ability
    3 dummy n.mark, ability, fool
    3 fair game n. & exp.sucker, boob
    3 goof n.person
    3 ignoramus n.fool, stupid, sap
    3 innocent sucker, boob
    3 masticate v.bite, mouth, chew
    3 muggins n.
    3 ninny-hammer n.
    3 noddle n.
    3 saphead
    3 score n.
    3 shlemiel
    3 tool n.person
    2 birdbrain n.sucker, boob
    2 brand n.
    2 cinch n.mark, dupe, mug
    2 dim-wit n.
    2 ding-a-ling n.
    2 dingbat n.
    2 drip
    2 easy game n. & exp.dupe, sucker, softy
    2 easy pickings exp.mark, dupe, mug
    2 fathead sucker, boob
    2 fish n.mark, dupe, mug
    2 goon n.
    2 greenhorn
    2 gudgeon n.dupe
    2 head
    2 loaf
    2 noggin
    2 numbskull n.
    2 pinhead n.
    2 sitting duck n. & exp.mark, object, fool
    2 target n.mark, fool, subject
    2 thickhead n.ability, dullard
    2 toolbox n.person, failure, individual
    1 bust n.dummy
    1 cat’s-paw n.
    1 chucklehead n.
    1 clown fool, brute, sucker
    1 come on
    1 conk
    1 coot
    1 countenance n.
    1 credulous person
    1 crisscross n.
    1 cross n.
    1 cull
    1 dingdong
    1 dolthead
    1 dome
    1 dumb-bell n.
    1 dumb ox exp.fool, brute, sucker
    1 dumbbell n.slang, ability
    1 dumbo n.slang, ability
    1 dummkopf n.ability
    1 dunderhead n.sucker, boob
    1 easy victim n.mark, mug, scapegoat
    1 fat-head n.
    1 fucker
    1 galoot
    1 goat n.mark, fool, subject
    1 gobe-mouches
    1 goose n.sucker, boob
    1 grade n.
    1 greener
    1 greeny
    1 headpiece
    1 jackass n.
    1 jerk-off
    1 jester n.
    1 kisser n.
    1 klutz
    1 knuckle-head n.
    1 lamb n.mark, dupe, fish
    1 lamebrain fool, stupid, sap
    1 leadpipe cinch
    1 lollipop n.
    1 loon n.sucker, boob
    1 marker n.
    1 marking
    1 monkey
    1 mugful
    1 mutt
    1 naif
    1 nit n.
    1 pallet
    1 pate
    1 phiz n.
    1 physiognomy n.
    1 plaything
    1 poke
    1 poll
    1 print n.
    1 prize sap
    1 prune
    1 ruminate
    1 sawney
    1 scar n.
    1 schlemihl
    1 schmo
    1 schnook
    1 sconce
    1 scrape
    1 scratch n.
    1 scrunch
    1 seagull n.
    1 seagulls
    1 setup n.person, mark, fool
    1 sign n.
    1 silly n.sucker, boob
    1 simple
    1 smiler n.
    1 stain n.
    1 steak
    1 stigma n.
    1 stupid
    1 stupid person n. & exp. & idi.fool, stupid, sap
    1 thimble-wit n.
    1 tomfool
    1 toy
    1 trusting soul
    1 turkey mark, fool, subject
    1 twerp n.sucker, boob
    1 visage n.
    1 zombie
    0 Psychology retardate n.
    0 ability
    0 airhead
    0 auf
    0 beefsteak
    0 bell ringer exp. & idi.
    0 bite v.chew
    0 blackcap
    0 block
    0 bona
    0 boofhead n.
    0 bore sucker, boob
    0 brainless
    0 brainpan
    0 brains
    0 breadstick
    0 breast
    0 breeze dupe, sucker, softy
    0 brisket
    0 buffoon sucker, boob
    0 bull’s-eye
    0 cairned
    0 capita
    0 charlie
    0 chop
    0 chuck
    0 chumps
    0 clay pigeon exp.mark, fool, subject
    0 client n.customer
    0 clodpate n.
    0 clodpole n.
    0 clodpoll n.
    0 clot n.
    0 cocoanut
    0 coconut
    0 color n.
    0 comic
    0 compote
    0 cranium
    0 creamer
    0 cretin sucker, boob
    0 crossbreed
    0 crosswalk
    0 crucifix
    0 crump v.bite, mouth
    0 crumpet
    0 cut
    0 cutlet
    0 cynical
    0 deadhead
    0 dense
    0 derision n.mark, fool, subject
    0 dill
    0 dog
    0 donkey n.
    0 donkeys
    0 doormat
    0 dotterel
    0 droller
    0 drumstick
    0 duck soup exp.dupe, sucker, softy
    0 duffer
    0 dumb
    0 dumber
    0 dumdum
    0 dunderpate n.
    0 easy prey
    0 easy touch
    0 feather-brain n.
    0 femme
    0 fighter
    0 fillet
    0 flake n.
    0 flathead
    0 fritter
    0 gander n.
    0 gawk
    0 git n.
    0 gnash v.grind, bite, chew
    0 gnaw v.bite, chew
    0 gomerel n.
    0 goodly
    0 goofiness
    0 goop
    0 gosling
    0 grind v.bite, chew
    0 gullible person
    0 half wit exp. & idi.
    0 hammerhead
    0 haunch
    0 hickory
    0 hock
    0 hopscotch
    0 hybridism
    0 illiterate sucker, boob
    0 jay n.
    0 jestee mark, fool, subject
    0 joke mark, fool, subject
    0 josher
    0 juggins
    0 kid stuff exp.dupe, sucker, softy
    0 kittiwake
    0 kittiwakes
    0 knucklehead
    0 lame-brain n.
    0 lamer
    0 latex
    0 laughingstock mark, fool, subject
    0 lightweight sucker, boob
    0 loggerhead
    0 lollipops
    0 lollypop
    0 lummox n.oaf
    0 lumpish
    0 manducate v.grind, bite, champ
    0 maul
    0 meat-head n.
    0 mentally ill exp. & idi.
    0 milquetoast
    0 mindless
    0 mooncalf n.
    0 nob n.
    0 noddy
    0 off his rocker exp. & idi.
    0 onion
    0 picnic dupe, sucker, softy
    0 piece of cake exp. & idi.dupe, sucker, softy
    0 pieced
    0 pillock n.
    0 prey
    0 retard n.
    0 saint mark exp. & idi.
    0 sap-head
    0 sapwood
    0 scapegoat n.person
    0 sea gull exp. & idi.
    0 sense
    0 silly billy n.
    0 sirloin
    0 skull
    0 slowcoach
    0 smilingly
    0 snap dupe, sucker, softy
    0 soft mark
    0 softhead
    0 softie mark, fool, subject
    0 softy dupe, sucker
    0 spastic
    0 spot n.
    0 subject mark, fool
    0 suckered
    0 suckering
    0 topknot
    0 twirp n.
    0 walk-over
    0 walkover dupe, sucker, softy
    0 weakling fool, sap, jerk
    0 wet
    0 wing
    0 wittol
    -1 topside
    boob
    dupe
    fool
    mark
    mug
    softy
    subject
    sucker

  50. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    derp

  51. Jean Henry
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    I will try to expand my ad hominem repertoire going forward. I rather like ‘nob.’ Haven’t heard that in a while.

  52. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    Intelligent readers see how quickly any semblance of debate is destroyed when these two post.

  53. Jean Henry
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

    Intelligent readers see how quickly any semblance of reasoned discourse is destroyed when these two (HW & EOS) post.

    Thank goodness for intelligent readers.

  54. Jean Henry
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    https://www.newyorker.com/sections/news/muellers-indictments-end-trumps-myth-of-the-russia-hoax

  55. Iron lung
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

    Rather not ad hominem, but a simple observation of fact.

    A person who vigorously defends a politician without question or criticism can, in fact, be seen as a “chump.”

  56. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

    “A person who vigorously defends a politician without question or criticism can, in fact, be seen as a “chump.”

    That’s not true though. I put Trump under extreme scrutiny up to the last minute before I took a chance on voting for him. I still do. It’s ad hominem. You can’t use it in a debate.

  57. Iron lung
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

    As an example, the Berners were “chumps.”

  58. Iron lung
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    Is this a debate? Lol

  59. Iron lung
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

    The time to scrutinize politicians is after they take power.

    Thus, the Mr. Warlord is, in fact, a “chump.”

  60. Iron lung
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

    A tool of those who hold power.

  61. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

    So what you are really saying is anyone who chose differently “vigorously defends a politician without question or criticism.”

  62. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

    “Is this a debate? Lol”

    Not with you around it’s not. You are good at wrecking debates. In a real one you would lose. You can’t go “…he’s a chump…”

  63. Jean Henry
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    “You can’t go “…he’s a chump…” ”
    And yet he did.

    PS ‘go’ does not mean say. One does not ‘go’ a statement. One goes somewhere. Sometimes to the future. We simply would like you to go somewhere else.

  64. Jean Henry
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

    “So what you are really saying is anyone who chose differently “vigorously defends a politician without question or criticism.””
    No what IL was saying is that you personally “vigorously defend [Trump] without question or criticism.” More so than any Trump supporter I know. To the point of mania.
    Hence, Chump-dom.

  65. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

    Missing the point and obscuring it with a pedantic comment.

  66. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

    “No what IL was saying is that you personally “vigorously defend [Trump] without question or criticism.” More so than any Trump supporter I know. To the point of mania.”

    But like I said it’s not true. I scrutinized him more than any of you guaranteed. Researched issues of concern intensely. It’s an ad hominem.

  67. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

    You people defend Clinton and Obama more than anyone I know blah blah blah but I don’t just ATTACK you for it personally. I just talk about what’s wrong with Obama/Clinton. Talk about sitting at the table with the adults…the irony is never ending.

  68. Jean Henry
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

    blah, blah, blah…

  69. Jean Henry
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

    I’m from the East Coast. Sorry. I don’t suffer fools lightly. I speak directly. https://twitter.com/aardvarsk/status/964549925009686528

    We rarely engage in the ‘debates’ you believe you are having here, HW, because they are unproductive. Unfortunately positions like yours are popular enough to constitute a threat to the well being of others, and so some of us attack. Those who do not are being polite. Those who chastise me for lack of civility are advocating for the status quo. Which is cool for them, but not my intent, so their argument falls flat on me.

    We aren’t debating you; we are dismissing you out of hand. You have that right. If I were to go to a right wing site and spout liberal ideals and perspective unrelentingly, I would expect the same treatment.

    I believe in the golden rule, and I’m treating you exactly as I would want to be treated in comparable circumstances. You came here of your own free will and continue to do so. Not sure what you expected or why, but how you are treated is not changing any time soon.

    Even those who defend you against insult, don’t buy what you are selling. None of it. Why are you here? At this point, you have dominated this space long enough, that I think we deserve an honest and self-reflective answer.

  70. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

    “We rarely engage in the ‘debates’ you believe you are having here, HW, because they are unproductive.”

    If you could beat me in a debate you would do it. It’s just knock the board over every time.

  71. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 2:20 pm | Permalink

    “If I were to go to a right wing site and spout liberal ideals and perspective unrelentingly, I would expect the same treatment.”

    I’m not a right winger. Even if I was I wouldn’t do what you do on any board.

  72. wobblie
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/may/05/the-great-climate-silence-we-are-on-the-edge-of-the-abyss-but-we-ignore-it?CMP=share_btn_fb

  73. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

    True

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=206&v=MyqbFSzkD4Y

  74. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    without inadvertent timestamp

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyqbFSzkD4Y

  75. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    Not ready to wake up yet? Okay, go back to sleep till it’s time.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quU_Tbv96Wk

  76. Iron lung
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

    “I’m not a right winger.”

    Lol. This buffoon doesn’t even understand his own politics.

    What a joke of a man.

  77. Iron lung
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

    For the record, it is rare that I ever defend any politician in public.

    In fact, I never do.

  78. ILJ
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    Proven Fact #1: Russia spent a lot of money and manpower to influence the U.S. election in favor of Donald Trump.

    Proven Fact#2: A significant number of people in the Trump campaign (six that we know of) had meetings, calls and emails with people from Russia during the campaign.

    Proven Fact #3: Most of those people were caught trying to conceal their contacts from investigators and fessed up only when presented with evidence to the contrary.

    If you can look at those three facts and say that the idea of collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign is some sort of liberal witch hunt, that it’s all just a “coincidence” and not worthy of a federal investigation, then I question your ability to think.

  79. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    For starters ILJ’s “Proven Fact #1” is not. Like I said: how do you figure when they had anti-Trump rallies too?

  80. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

    “Proven Fact#2:”

    Is normal.

  81. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    “Proven Fact #3: Most of those people were caught trying to conceal their contacts from investigators and fessed up only when presented with evidence to the contrary.”

    I don’t know. Mueller has a Peter Strzok problem. Seems he may have changed the “302 form” on the botched Flynn interview among other anomalies. The Trump team has shared everything asked of them, which is a lot. “Hundreds of thousands” of documents sound right or is that fake news do you think?

  82. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

    Special message to people like Iron Lung and Jean Henry from *********.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4w7Y9duuC0

  83. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    “For the record, it is rare that I ever defend any politician in public.
    In fact, I never do.”

    Mindlessly berating Trump voters is the equivalent.

  84. Iron lung
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

    No, it isn’t.

    People like you allow autocratic regimes to exist.

  85. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    “No, it isn’t.
    People like you allow autocratic regimes to exist.”

    You are going to find out differently. President Trump is at war with the CIA. Soon it will be known to all just how evil they are (not as if there isn’t enough to go on already, but for the slower people like you…) He’s doing it right under your nose. You will be embarrassed when everyone knows the truth about exactly what you have been fighting against: the chance to be free in this world.

  86. ILJ
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    Facts are facts. You can try to “explain them away” and redirect the conversation all you want but that doesn’t make observable facts not true. It just makes you someone who is unwilling to accept certain facts. And that means no one should pay attention to what you say, because your opinions are based upon emotions and personal prejudices, rather than on observable, provable facts.

    Saying Fact #1 isn’t true is to ignore the conclusions of every U.S. intelligence agency. I’ll take their evaluation over yours.

    Saying Fact #2 is “normal” is a personal opinion about an observable fact, not in itself a fact. No one cares if you are of the opinion that having campaign representatives in contact with Russians on a regular basis is “normal.” Whether it’s “normal” or not, it happened.

    Completely ignoring Fact #3 does not make it go away.

  87. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    Sometimes “facts” are actually lies. There is a shocking lack of neural plasticity evidenced in your reply. It’s really bad around here. You don’t think intelligence agency cronies lie?/Are you out of your mind? Are you talking about hacking or this unsuccessful interference attempt in the Russian indictments?

  88. Iron Lung
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    “You will be embarrassed when everyone knows the truth about exactly what you have been fighting against: the chance to be free in this world.”

    You are a complete idiot.

    Lay off the pot for, well, forever.

  89. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

    I promise you are the idiot. You don’t give a shit to know the reality of what black hat spooks do in this world. It’s going to make you look so much more like dogshit then you already do to so many more people.

  90. Iron Lung
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    lol

  91. Jean Henry
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

    See super productive debate. HW puts up points so obviously twisted from reality that there is no point in reply. If you do reply, you will receive ridicule and assertion of how wring you are backed with no real evidence. Then is someone insults in reply, HW’s feelings are hurt. And then it’s just insults. Many of us bothered to argue you in the beginning, but your rebuttals were nonsensical and deeply warped. That’s why we no longer bother. You dont even realize we are choosing not to engage you. You think all we have is insults; all we can bother ourselves to muster up in reply is insults. Your points are unworthy of further effort.

    PS We kicked your ass on that ballot box thing, the last time anyone actually seriously engaged you in debate. You made a stupid point and left about 10 points against your position unaddressed. You want a debate, go back and pick up all those dropped balls. That should keep you busy for a while.

  92. Iron Lung
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 6:31 pm | Permalink

    “HW’s feelings are hurt.”

    lol

    Comedic, really.

  93. Iron Lung
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

    “You made a stupid point and left about 10 points against your position unaddressed.”

    The dude smokes tons of weed. What else would you expect him to do?

  94. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

    Anyone can see where these threads go wrong. It’s always when Jean Henry and Iron Derp show up. I discuss the topic, they derail then blame me for it. “We kicked your ass” – yeah right! You kick your own ass with all this bullshit you put on this site. You drop every single thing then derail to hide it.

  95. Iron Lung
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 6:35 pm | Permalink

    “Anyone can see where these threads go wrong. It’s always when Jean Henry and Iron Derp show up. I discuss the topic, they derail then blame me for it”

    The Mr. Warlord is like an episode of Scooby Doo.

  96. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

    Like I said Iron Derp, you don’t even know what “weeed” is. You probably never smoked in your life because you had such a shitty upbringing by drug and alcohol addicts. Guess what? Not everyone is brought up like that so they aren’t scared like you. I know you hate to hear it but Cannabis is good for human beings. There is nothing wrong with it and a lot of things right.

  97. Iron Lung
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    “I know you hate to hear it but Cannabis is good for human beings. ”

    lol

  98. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

    Ignorant to lol at what you don’t understand.

  99. Iron Lung
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 6:47 pm | Permalink

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l49m__c3HXc

  100. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    YOU are fucking lame. Terrible.

  101. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

    !!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH7c9wbiros

  102. Iron lung
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

    Lolz x 2

  103. Chris Buhalis
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

    It’s obviously Obama’s work. Who else is so diabolical that he would go to such lengths to have his deep-state network of illegal aliens stop their mandatory abortion parties to spend all of their time to make the president look like a liar instead of just fixing the election so Clinton could win? Do I need to wear a tan suit before you’ll see the truth?

  104. Jean Henry
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 8:59 pm | Permalink

    a Black Sabbath link is probably not the best testament to the benefits of recreational drug use.

  105. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 9:11 pm | Permalink

    Yeah, cuz herb iz drugz and drugzerbad mkay?

  106. Jean Henry
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

    I’m not opposed to legalized marijuana. Neither is IL. We’ve both made that clear. I understand the benefits for some people. Many if my friends are highly-functional regular users. That doesn’t mean there aren’t serious problems with excessive use. Some of which you seem to demonstrate on these pages.

  107. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 9:24 pm | Permalink

    Do you actually think your opinion matters on something like that? You try to characterize me every chance you get but it’s all a bunch of bullshit.

  108. Iron Lung
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 9:45 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think pot should be illegal, I just think that it is a stupid drug.

    I know and have known a lot of weedheads. While I love some of them, heavy pot smokers are, in general, an annoyingly stupid bunch prone to be depressed, ineffectual and easily convinced of the validity of conspiracy theories. The ones that believe pot is some magical plant that will cure all problems known to man are just the silliest.

    oh, wait…..

  109. Iron Lung
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 9:46 pm | Permalink

    “Do you actually think your opinion matters on something like that?”

    I guess, the question is, does anything the Mr. Warlord posts here matter? Outside of providing some intermittent entertainment?

  110. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 10:46 pm | Permalink

    But you are so ignorant it is shocking. How do you think you can judge someone about something you know nothing about (but should?)

  111. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 10:57 pm | Permalink

    Neither of you even talk about the topic at all. All these threads just smear into the same bullshitty mess once you get involved.

  112. Iron Lung
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 11:03 pm | Permalink

    The Mr. Warlord posts a random assortment of links, insults and obscenity filled statements with multiple divergent and unresolved points.

    Perhaps he should recognize his own “bullshitty mess.”

    But the Mr. Warlord’s intellect is vast. His special information is not for mere humans.

    Perhaps it is his special brand of marijuana. If only we smoked the same marijuana or read Alex Jones in the same way he does…. we might see his mighty intellect.

  113. Sad
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

    This performance has gone on long enough, where’s my bread?

  114. Jean Henry
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 7:38 am | Permalink

    “the Russian candidate” How can you say that’s Trump when they had anti-Trump rallies too?– HW

    “use any opportunity to criticize Hillary and the rest (except Sanders and Trump — we support them).” –Russian internal directive quoted in the indictment

  115. wobblie
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 8:14 am | Permalink

    “Defendant ORGANIZATION had a strategic goal to sow discord in the U.S. political system,
    including the 2016 U.S. presidential election. …
    Object of the Conspiracy
    28.
    The conspiracy had as its object impairing, obstructing, and defeating the lawful
    governmental functions of the United States by dishonest means in order to enable
    the Defendants to interfere with U.S. political and electoral processes, including
    the 2016 U.S. presidential election.

    After the election of Donald Trump in or around November 2016,
    Defendants and their co-conspirators used false U.S. personas to organize and coordinate
    U.S. political rallies in support of then president-elect Trump, while simultaneously
    using other false U.S. personas to organize and coordinate U.S. political rallies protesting the results of the 2016 U.S. presidential election.
    For example, in or around November 2016, Defendants and their co-conspirators rganized
    a rally in New Yo r k through one ORGANIZATION-controlled group designed to
    “show your support for President-Elect Donald Trump” held on or about November 12, 2016. At the same time, Defendants and their co-conspirators, through another
    ORGANIZATION-controlled group, organized a rally in New Yo r k called “Trump
    is NOT my President” held on or about November 12, 2016. ”

    The indictments do not allege that the purpose of the conspiracy was to elect Trump. Perhaps most of its efforts were in that direction, but that was not its purpose. The Russians did not cause DJT election, rather it was the extremely flawed campaign ran by the Democrats.

  116. Jean Henry
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    No the Russians ran a campaign against Hillary Clinton.
    Just as the GOP did for 30 years.
    She was the most qualified person of any party to ever run for President. She withstood decades of assault and still won the popular vote by more than 3 million people against Trump and against Sanders.
    The Dems ran a strategically flawed campaign, sure.
    But to ignore why HRC was considered a ‘flawed’ candidate, more vulnerable to attack than others, is to ignore the elephant in the room.

  117. Jean Henry
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 8:36 am | Permalink

    Wobblie– the intent of the Russian interference was to weaken our Democracy and especially spur populist distrust of the process, because Russian interest is in undermining US power in order to elevate their own. Electing Trump or getting him very close was a piece of it. Mostly they wanted to undermine faith in our system and the functionality of our governance.

    To that end, you are really supporting their work.

  118. wobblie
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 8:36 am | Permalink

    I guess Mueller and the indictment are wrong then and you are right.

    Here is a bit of good news.
    https://www.thenation.com/article/austin-just-brought-paid-sick-leave-to-the-south/

  119. wobblie
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 8:47 am | Permalink

    I understand JH that you are on board for the war with Russia. That is why you support Corporate Democrats who give the Military Industrial Complex everything they want. I understand that you support the demonization of Putin and believe that he is bent on re-establishing the Russian Empire. All your liberal posturing is meaningless given your support for the above. That was Clinton’s program. Yes she got more votes than Trump and probably should be the President.
    Despite Trump being made President the Military Industrial Complex agenda moves forward. So in the end, the Democrats will do nothing to remove him or engage in any real opposition to his programs.

  120. Jean Henry
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    Wobblie– I quoted from the indictment to support my point. They said in their own directive that they were for Tump and Sanders and opposed to Clinton and anyone else.

    I understand and acknowledged that the larger intent was simply disruption in order to undermine our system as a whole.

    You run on outrage. That makes you a perfect mark for the Russians. I’m wondering how much Russian misinformation you shared during the campaign because it appealed to your righteous indignation. I checked myself (FB has a way of searching): None.
    You don’t care more than I do about any of this, including the casualties of forever war.

    You just posture instead of actually looking for how to solve these problems with minimal damage. I care enough to look at the complexity. You’re a bigger blowhard know-it-all than I’ll ever be.

  121. Jean Henry
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    Here’s a good piece on the forever war and how intractable it has become. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/02/17/world/africa/niger-ambush-american-soldiers.html
    We need a new strategy for sure. Walking away from this mess isn’t it. Would that it were so simple, but where we have not interfered, we have often increased the horror as well. I’m a lot less interested in the US avoiding responsibility for the wars, than I am in the US stepping up to their responsibilities for them.

  122. Jean Henry
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    “I’m about as non-partisan as is humanly possible, I do want to stick it Trump. However, that’s because I think there’s overwhelming evidence he’s a kleptocratic authoritarian who threatens the integrity of our liberal institutions. For the sake of those institutions, I think we ought to challenge the legitimacy of his authority on those grounds, not on the grounds of how he came into office. That doesn’t mean not worrying about the role of the Russians in the election. But it does mean not putting the focus on whether or not their influence was decisive.” https://niskanencenter.org/blog/care-whether-trump-legitimate-winner-election/

  123. Iron Lung
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    ” I understand that you support the demonization of Putin and believe that he is bent on re-establishing the Russian”

    He does a good job of that on his own, and he is, in fact, hell bent on reasserting Russian power.

    I don’t know what your point is. Perhaps you just haven’t been following the news for the past two decades.

  124. Iron Lung
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 10:35 am | Permalink

    I remember when American liberals were praising Putin’s op-ed in the NYT about 6 years ago.

    It was astounding that their politics blinded them to the fact that they had been played. Putin wrote that article (or had it written) to undermine liberal support for the Obama admin and the great Democratic leadership…. not because he cared about the world, but for his own ends.

    But liberals couldn’t see it, because some people just don’t know a whole lot about the world and naively believe that, absent the United States, the world would be a peaceful place where everyone gets along…. which is nonsense. While the actions of the US (Iraq) were to the detriment of everyone, the reality is that countries work in their own self interest, and self interested politicians work hard to benefit themselves, often to the detriment of everyone else.

    The end result that the Bernie Sanders came out and tapped into the fallacious thinking of American liberals, offering an isolationist solution, and it all worked out well for Vladimir Putin in the end.

    Putin showed that he can spread propaganda in American media, he showed that a free press is a joke, undermining faith in the basics of liberalism, has shown that he can manipulate American elections and shown that the US’s democracy is not as strong as claimed, meaning that US calls for human rights and election transparency are for naught.

    Putin won, not by riling up unemployed pot smokers in Ypsi to vote for Trump, but by undermining liberal support for their own party.

    You were all played and played well. Some of us saw it happening, others were too naive to be able to recognize it or were too wrapped up in their shallow politics to want to see it.

  125. Jean Henry
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 10:54 am | Permalink

    There is a lot of speculation now that Putin wanted us to know about the election interference. He wanted us to lose faith in the electoral process and of course the US intelligence apparatus.

    This follows what IL points up.

    We are not savvy enough to see the manipulation to populism (and isolationism) on left and right. This is not to say concern about the issues populism brings up are not legitimate. It is also not to say that we should not be investigating Russian meddling in everything. We have to close off those avenues. And that includes some work on our own ability to be manipulated. We need to wake up to how our legitimate outrage is harnessed by political operatives of all stripes to manipulate our point of view. The best defense is to question our own narratives and commit ourselves to a primary allegiance to discovering the truth, especially inconvenient truth. Facts are not opinions. Fake news isn’t news. We need to be more discerning. That requires some humility.

    My own political perspective has become much different in the last 10 years. If yours hasn’t changed, that doesn’t mean you are right; it means you are trapped in a belief system. I’m not confident I’m right. I’m confident I don’t know enough and neither do most people. I’m committed to learning more.

  126. Jean Henry
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 10:59 am | Permalink

    Other things Russian bots have been up to this week: Trolling supporters of Black Panther and pushing the gun rights ‘they’re after our guns’ paranoia. No doubt they are pushing extremist perspectives on the other side as well. Whatever they can do to further divide us in fear, suspicion, and blame.

    I always thought the cold war Russia threat was overblown. I never bought it and thought it was dangerous and expensive to engage in it. This is something different in my mind. Far more nefarious. Much more a risk to the system. Maybe I’m just older now. I don’t know.

  127. wobblie
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 11:42 am | Permalink

    for those who are still looking for scape goats for the Clinton loss in Michigan
    Michigan 2000
    Nader (Green): 84,165
    Browne (Lib): 16,711

    Michigan 2016
    Stein (Green): 51,463
    Johnson (Libertarians): 172,163

    The Greens lost 33,000 votes (most to HRC) and the Libertarians gained 155,000 (largely from Trump). Total swing: 188,000 votes favoring HRC and she still lost!

  128. Iron Lung
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    “My own political perspective has become much different in the last 10 years. ”

    Mine, too. My basic views have not changed (public education, access to health care, fuck wall street, yes!), but I no longer assume that since people share those views that they are right about how to achieve it….. or that they know anything at all about the world.

    Liberal people are just as ignorant about the world as Alex Jones’ fan base.

    I like the theory that Jill Stein was a Russian plant. Highly unlikely, but an appealing idea.

  129. wobblie
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

    I like the theory that HRC was a shill for Wall Street and after Obama fronting for Wall Street for 8 years people were fed up.

  130. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 1:08 pm | Permalink

    Very intelligent posts, wobblie.

  131. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

    Just like I said some of these shit-stirring protests of the type that so many people had such outrage over were phony. You have to think on multiple levels or you will be easily lead astray.

    https://www.sacurrent.com/the-daily/archives/2017/11/01/russian-trolls-organized-both-sides-of-an-islam-protest-in-texas

  132. Iron Lung
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

    “You have to think on multiple levels or you will be easily lead astray.”

    lol

  133. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

    Perfect response for someone who believes nothing matters.

  134. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    It’s so obviously true it’s truly absurd for someone to claim they are laughing out loud at it. If you accept everything at face value what does that make you?

  135. Iron Lung
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    It appears the Mr. Warlord has finally awoken after a late night of reading conspiracy sites, masturbating and smoking weed.

  136. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    No need to masturbate here; projection from the master baiter.

  137. Iron Lung
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

    Wobblie,

    I don’t like the idea that American voters of any party are racist AND sexist, but I believe that it is true .

  138. Jean Henry
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

    There is no point in thinking about what caused the election results. All the factors pointed to did. What matters is effectively addressing interference in our elections and working to make them more fair and easier to participate in. There is a lot of action now, appropriately, at the state levels to address these issues. The FBI investigation will help as well. Pressure on fb (who are once again denying the scope of the problem) and other social media is critical.

    We were never going to fix the elections at a federal level anyway. The irony of Sanders and Clinton’s losses is that they have spurred the work where it’s needed. And the support for non-partisan election reform is bi-partisan. Anyone who thinks third parties are the answer just needs to look at Germany’s recent mess. Third party influence and intractability doesn’t always produce the results they want. Or the country needs. At all. Compromise is critical in any liberal democratic system.

    So much fantasy and delusion on the far left too… sigh.

  139. Iron Lung
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 9:47 pm | Permalink

    Normally American liberals think that voters are stupid and misguided. In 2016, however, they believed that Trump was a rational choice for American voters.

    I thought that was odd. I still think it is odd.

  140. Jean Henry
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 10:12 pm | Permalink

    I’m confused, IL. Which liberal voters thought Trump was a rational choice? What I witnessed was widespread disbelief in the wake of the election, to the point of imagining that the electors would rebel and not ratify the election. Are you suggesting that looking for any reason for the election of Trump is implying rationality? I don’t think that’s the case.
    The people least surprised by Trump’s election, other than Trump, seemed to be voters of color. They attributed his election to racism plain and simple. And that comes as no surprise to them. I don’t think most people consider racism rational; it is a plausible reason for a lot of terrible shit in this country however.

  141. Jean Henry
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 10:13 pm | Permalink

    Correction: “Trump supporters”, not “Trump” *

  142. Iron Lung
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 10:42 pm | Permalink

    “Which liberal voters thought Trump was a rational choice?”

    A lot of them, they came up with all kinds of justifications as to why people voted for Trump (Michael Moore?), as if to say that it was wise for anyone at all. Here Mr Wobblie expresses the same sentiments.

    “Wall Street” blah blah blah, as if rural Michigan cares at all about Wall Street. They are more worried about brown people and not having your hysterical mom in office. Even people who might have voted Democratic in union jobs likely voted for Trump because of all the nonsense about Brown people and your hysterical mom.

    Though the last election is long in the past, Clinton lost because people didn’t want their hysterical mother in office and because people are racist.

  143. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

    So creepy Iron Derp was thinking about me jerkin’ it.

  144. Jean Henry
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 11:46 pm | Permalink

    HW– It’s pretty much impossible to not think of men like you jerkin it in the basement, HW.
    That’s not about how compelling anyone finds you.
    Really.
    In this case, as all others, you are far from special.
    Everyone knows trolls are horny little bastards lurking under bridges.

  145. Jean Henry
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 11:49 pm | Permalink

    IL– The neglected White Working Class is pretty much gone. Thank goodness.The average Trump voter made over 72 grand a year and was college educated.

  146. Jean Henry
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 11:50 pm | Permalink

    **”neglected White Working Class narrative”

  147. Iron Lung
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 12:07 am | Permalink

    What, rich people can’t be racist? Or stupidly sexist?

    Granted, they want tax breaks, but in 2016 racism worked. It continues to work.

  148. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 12:28 am | Permalink

    Jean Henry:

    “It’s pretty much impossible to not think of men like you jerkin it in the basement.”

  149. Jean Henry
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 12:42 am | Permalink

    HW– Are you under the impression thats a compliment?

    IL– I never denied racism as a factor. I’ve stated it many times. The WWC narrative denied racism as a factor. It positioned them as the average Trump voter. Not true. It also positioned the WWC as being neglected under Obama, when, in fact, over all, they did quite well. Racism and Sexism were absolutely the primary motivation behind Obama and Hillary hatred in my mind. There were legitimate reasons to dislike both and critique both, but the level of vitriol attached to dislike of both, clearly came from someplace darker.

  150. Jean Henry
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 12:45 am | Permalink

    And, quite obviously, Trumps appeals to white nationalism, which began with his attacks on Obama, were attractive to racists, both open and not so.

    HW, for instance is not a racist, but believes in ‘white rights’ too. He’s not sexist but is passionate about men’s rights. He also thinks women relish the idea of him jacking off.

  151. Sad
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 7:32 am | Permalink

    Wow. That really took a turn.

    Why is IL getting down on people for masturbating? It’s a healthy natural thing.

    Maybe IL and EOS do have something in common?

  152. Jean Henry
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 7:46 am | Permalink

    “It appears the Mr. Warlord has finally awoken after a late night of reading conspiracy sites, masturbating and smoking weed.” — Not sure that constitutes derision of masturbation SAD. Just seems likely from what we know of HW and his ilk. A little of any of those three things is harmless. Excess of all three can be problematic. As for why women wouldn’t be so keen on visualizing the act as conducted by online abusive trolls with megalomaniacal tendencies– Well, have you read the news lately?

  153. Jean Henry
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    IL: “You have to think on multiple levels or you will be easily lead astray.

    lol”

    HW: “It’s so obviously true it’s truly absurd for someone to claim they are laughing out loud at it. If you accept everything at face value what does that make you?”

    Don’t think he was lol’ing at the premise of your statement. I think he was lol’ing at the idea that you believe it applies for you. Twisting multiple threads into odd shapes to align with your warped narrative is not the same thing as thinking on multiple levels. There is also the ‘astray’ part–

    Lol

  154. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 8:50 am | Permalink

    The broadsword of the Slayer is polished to a mirror finish by a fair maiden in the light of the moon.

  155. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    “Twisting multiple threads into odd shapes to align with your warped narrative”

    You call it that. I call it noticing wtf is going on. I told you a lot of that wave of racial hatred was being artificially whipped up and now there is evidence “the” Russians did it in Texas in 2016.

  156. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    “HW, for instance is not a racist, but believes in ‘white rights’ too. He’s not sexist but is passionate about men’s rights.”

    When have I ever said one thing about rights except that they are for all human beings? How is it not you with the twisted narrative? You just MAKE UP whatever you can think of for to satisfy your smearing habit.

  157. Jean Henry
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 9:42 am | Permalink

    HW– ‘Sowing division’ includes feeding your conspiracy theories, just FYI.
    I have made my point over and over again here that our outrage is our vulnerability to manipulation. Everyone’s on every side. This is no way means that outrage is always unjustified. It simply means we need to be more discerning in our consumption of media, especially media that appeals a bit too neatly to our perspective. There are ways to discern truth from fiction and fabrication.

    Not sure what part of that you don’t understand.

  158. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    That’s a pig’s head view. You never learned everything you assume is true is an illusion. You have to force everything to fit into it.

  159. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 10:01 am | Permalink

    You still attack me to today for noticing suspicious race-baiting that was going on. Then information comes out confirming that I was on the right track. Then somehow even though I was correct and you were duped you say I was the one influenced by Russian conspiracy theories! Quadruple whammy

  160. Iron Lung
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    The Mr. Warlord was out with the “All Lives Matter” crowd.

    Nothing more needs to be said.

  161. Jean Henry
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 10:25 am | Permalink

    HW– I never denied race baiting by theRussians. That has been known since the first revelations of Russian bot interference. It corresponds precisely with what I have been saying all along about our outrage, legitimate or not, being used to manipulate us. Especially on either end of the political spectrum.

    Talking about race makes white people flip out. So it can be manipulated. That doesn’t mean we should not talk about it. Obama’s election spurred a rise in white nationalism in America. Every moment of progress for Black Americans historically has been followed with a new means of oppression– Jim Crow, Mass Incarceration, etc etc. Obama was followed by Trump in the wake of a new tide of open racism and white nationalism. So the Russians worked both sides of the fence on raical division. That does not mean both sides are equally culpable in racial division. Look at the numbers. Just because their anger can be manipulated doesn’t mean that Black Americans don’t have a lot to be pissed off about. Just because their anger can be manipulated doesn’t mean that White Americans have any legitimate reason for either feeling victimized or prideful. It’s a fucking miracle there aren’t more riots.

  162. Jean Henry
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    Any logic that flattens the ongoing and very transparent inequity in America is corrupted, especially when it does so under the principle of fairness.

  163. Jean Henry
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 10:32 am | Permalink

    For IL re liberal populism: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/02/26/a-celebrity-philosopher-explains-the-populist-insurgency

  164. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    “Talking about race makes white people flip out.”

    You actually believe this intricate tapestry of bullshit your programmed mind has created is reality. Your neural plasticity is shot, you spew nonsense every day, you’re a mess. Get ready for more of what I have said to be validated by news.

  165. Iron Lung
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 10:37 am | Permalink

    “Talking about race makes white people flip out. ”

    “All Lives Matter” should have been renamed “Sit Down and Shut Up.”

  166. Iron Lung
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    “Talking about race makes white people flip out.”

    In general, in the United States, this is a true statement.

  167. Iron Lung
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    “Get ready for more of what I have said to be validated by news.”

    lol

  168. Jean Henry
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    I’m ready for more of what I have said to be validated by the news.

  169. Jean Henry
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    Dude, look at the outcome and access numbers and tell me racial inequity is imagined or self-generated and not created on many fronts by the system.

  170. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    That’s a non sequitor. Think logically. TRY to balance the crusty old right side of the brain with the left SOMEWHAT.

  171. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    I was talking about Russian race-baiting in Texas with the anti-mosque protest and perhaps the counter protest. How that fits what I said about certain aspects of that race flap that went on: trumped up, artificial, etc. Now you want to change it to a very general argument about racism that has nothing to do with what I have said.

  172. Jean Henry
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 11:35 am | Permalink

    That information re anti-mosque protests has been known for over a year. Just because the Russians spurred protest does not mean all participants were plants. Quite the opposite.

    I can assure you the ‘race flap’ is not Trumped up. At least not in the ways you believe. It’s real which is why it can be manipulated.

  173. Iron Lung
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    “Now you want to change it to a very general argument about racism that has nothing to do with what I have said.”

    The Mr. Warlord thinks that doing something about racism might infringe on the rights of white people, because they are an oppressed people worthy of protection.

  174. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    Straw man (you do this alll the time.) I didn’t say everyone there was a plant.

  175. Jean Henry
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

    So what ARE you asserting? That the protests, because they were spurred by Russia, did not represent legitimate differences? That these divisive issues are not at play in American politics, or wouldn’t be without the Russians? What is your point?

  176. Jean Henry
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

    On what basis do you say racial and ethnic tensions in America are ‘artificial?”

  177. Jean Henry
    Posted February 19, 2018 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

    Or are you trying to assert that real pro-Trumpers don’t participate in race baiting? That Trump himself does not? Only Russian bots do?
    That’s comical.

  178. Meta
    Posted February 20, 2018 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    Brain Williams: “After Mueller indictments Trump fails to criticize Russia”

    Watch the panel discussion:
    https://www.msnbc.com/brian-williams/watch/after-mueller-indictments-trump-fails-to-criticize-russia-1165375555642

  179. wobblie
    Posted February 20, 2018 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    Max Blumenthal analysis blows holes through my argument. Worth watching to get the truth on the specifics of the indictment.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ49XNEIHdY

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