For what it’s worth, anti-fascists aren’t the problem

Today, Donald Trump announced that, “The United States of America will be designating ANTIFA as a terrorist organization.” This is problematic for a number of reasons, not the least of which being that there isn’t an actual anti-fascist organization in America by the name of ANTIFA that people belong to. It’s not like the KKK, or the Aryan Brotherhood, or the National Socialist Movement, or the Proud Boys, for instance — none of which, by the way, has the President suggested be labeled as terrorist organizations, even though they actually are. No, when Donald Trump says “ANTIFA” (short for “anti fascist”), he’s just using it as a broad, catch-all label that could conceivably be applied to anyone who take to the street against his administration, from protesters who find themselves blocking the advancement of police lines to journalists shooting video of things the police don’t want shown.

I have a lot more to say, but it’s going to have to wait until tomorrow. For now, though, I just wanted to make you aware of the fact that Donald Trump has come out and officially stated that the real problem in American isn’t our organized and increasingly active white nationalist hate groups, but those he perceives to be anti-fascists. [And, yes, calling his adversaries “anti-fascists” would, by definition, make him a fascist.] Oh, and speaking of racism is America, White House National Security Adviser Robert O’Brien, when asked today if racism is a problem in America, responded, “No, I don’t think there’s systemic racism.”

For what it’s worth, I don’t like that people are smashing windows and burning buildings. I certainly understand it, but I don’t like it. Like civil rights leader and Congressman John Lewis, I’d prefer that people, “Organize. Demonstrate. Sit-in. Stand-up. Vote. Be constructive.” With that said, though, I’d rather see video of a dozen windows being broken than one of a cop flashing a white power hand sign during a riot.

One last thing. Having spent the past few days watching police violence erupt nationwide, it made me happy today to see Genesee County Sheriff Chris Swanson taking off his riot gear today, and marching alongside protesters in Flint. I found it a welcome relief after all the stories of police storming medical tents, and videos of people being assaulted by officers while standing on their own porches, and sitting in their own cars.

This is what real leadership looks like. Leadership isn’t hiding from the press in the basement of the White House while members of the administration tell reporters that you’ve already made “very eloquent remarks.” Leadership is engaging with people, having difficult conversations, and trying to find a path forward, not just tweeting out “LAW & ORDER!” from your basement. [I’m waiting for him to tweet out #WhitePropertyMatters.] And, with that said, I’ll leave you with this photo of Joe Biden, who was on the street in Wilmington, Delaware today, talking with protesters.

update: From The Washington Post White House Bureau Chief Philip Rucker: “Trump and some of his advisers calculated that he should not speak to the nation because he had nothing to say… He had no tangible policy or action to announce, nor did he feel an urgent motivation to try to bring people together. So he stayed silent.”

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  1. Bob
    Posted May 31, 2020 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    He’s so toast. The street in front of his house is burning and he’s nowhere to be seen. Done.

  2. John Brown
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 12:31 am | Permalink

    Fuck that fascist, shit for brains, ruskie stooge.
    He’s going to get his traitors ass strung up!

  3. EOS
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 5:05 am | Permalink

    6 days in and it continues to get worse. Progressive mayors and governors sit on their hands and do nothing while businesses are looted and cleared of all merchandise. If nothing is done to stop them, the looters will turn next to private residences. Labeling Antifa as a terrorist group allows Trump to use Federal forces without waiting for local governments to ask for help. Communities that do nothing to stop the riots should not expect Federal aid to rebuild later. The protests will slow considerably as the protesters get sick from COVID.

  4. iRobert
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 6:03 am | Permalink

    The protesters are spreading the virus, and that means there will be more deaths of people who could have otherwise survived. It was true of the fools gathering at capital buildings weeks ago. And it’s true of the idiots mobbing the streets in dozens of cities now.

  5. iRobert
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 6:17 am | Permalink

    The link you posted to “a cop flashing a white power hand sign” does not seem to be working. Has the video been removed? From what police department was the officer?

  6. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 6:35 am | Permalink

    That white power shit turns up in the damnedest places.

    [pic 2]

  7. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 6:44 am | Permalink

    “[And, yes, calling his adversaries “anti-fascists” would, by definition, make him a fascist.] ”

    What a childish thought process. I’ve never seen anything quite like it.

  8. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 7:06 am | Permalink

    I easily showed evidence from the mainstream that the original antifa called national socialists their comrades. In the 30’s. When Hitler was their leader.

  9. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 7:09 am | Permalink

    So it’s true that anti-fascism is not a problem but antifa are not anti-fascist.

  10. Ali Velshi by proxy
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 8:43 am | Permalink

    Asked about protests/police brutality, Trump said: “I’m going to win the election easily. The economy is going to start to get good & then great, better than ever before. I’m getting more judges appointed by the week.”

  11. EOS
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 8:59 am | Permalink

    For what it’s worth, I don’t like that people are smashing windows and burning buildings. I certainly understand it, but I don’t like it.

    I don’t like it or understand it. It just creates a bigger problem.

  12. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 9:38 am | Permalink

    “And, yes, calling his adversaries “anti-fascists” would, by definition, make him a fascist.”

    In Maynard’s defense I do think a small group of anti fascists looted Maynard’s brain late last night.

    Liquidate all your shit Maynard. The house, the cars, the investments, the building—everything. Time to join and support this anti fascist cause. Why wouldn’t you?

  13. Jean Henry
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    “While no one condones looting, on the other hand, one can understand the pent-up feelings that may result from decades of repression and people who have had members of their family killed by that regime, for them to be taking their feelings out on that regime.”
    –Donald Rumsfeld

  14. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 10:24 am | Permalink

    Woke black people are going to protest the ridiculous propping up of white dementia laden Biden. They will do it at the voting booth. Book it.

    Lies bring the truth into greater focus.

  15. Anonymous
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    I suspect that FF is a big fan of Kent State.

  16. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 10:48 am | Permalink

    I think you might be stupid.

  17. Jean Henry
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 11:01 am | Permalink

    Some action can be taking locally. The A2 Police Union Contract is up for renewal in TONIGHT’s council meeting. Some wonks have scrutinized the contract to review where it insulates local police from accountability for abuse. Changing it will almost certainly result in a lawsuit. Structural change often requires legal review. Because that’s who structural racism perpetuates itself.

    There’s a whole lot of language policing going with white liberals elbowing each other out for the title of most sensitive. Meanwhile we will likely once again ignore the possibility for structural change.

  18. EOS
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 11:20 am | Permalink

    Sheriff Clayton appears to be doing a great job. Protests are scheduled during daylight hours, allowed to block traffic, hold signs, and use megaphones. The sheriff department protects the protestors by blocking traffic and blocking exits from highways that would route cars towards the protests.

  19. Lynne
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    FF, are you actually predicting that black people are going to vote for Trump? I just don’t see it happening.

    JH, I am not sure too many liberals or other white people even really understand that there needs to be some deep structural change or if they do, how to go about making it happen.

  20. Demetrius
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    Step 1. Label “Antifa” as terrorists.
    Step 2. Label anyone who protests or otherwise speaks out against the government as “Antifa”
    Step 3. Voila! Any kind of protest or dissent (coming from the “wrong” side) is considered terrorism, and therefore illegal.

    This just in: “Trump calls governors ‘weak,’ urges them to ‘dominate’ unruly protests”

    This country is playing with fire … now teetering on the brink of civil war.

  21. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    At a higher percentage then ever before. Yes.

    Trump captured an awesome percentage last time considering clueless people like you predicted he would get 0% of the vote. Give it a few years. People like you, Jean, and Maynard will be the enemy of most in the black community. People are waking up. This antifa shit is YOUR people.

  22. Lynne
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    FF, So you think that instead of getting 4% of the black vote, Trump might get 5% this time?

    I guess in the sense that most of my people are anti-fascists, there is some truth there but no one I know is out looting or causing trouble.

    I am not the only person looking around at the dumpster fire our nation has become and blaming our president for his lack of meaningful leadership. How that will affect the election remains to be seen. He is still appealing to his racist base using racist dog whistle language so it is possible that there are enough truly deplorable people in our country who will re-elect him. I suppose you are planning to vote for him, FF seeing as you are generally garbage.

  23. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    I don’t have time to take a look at the actual numbers 4% sounds low/inaccurate—if memory serves. The point is, I am predicting that Trump will capture even more black votes than he did. More than GOP usually gets and Biden will get less than usual.

    Regarding: “I am not the only person looking around Seeing…”. Why do you even bother with these empty statements? Of course there are other Lynne’s out there. You are an elder in the brain washed /brain washing community. People are waking up despite your efforts though. Because of your efforts.

  24. Sad
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

    I like Antifa.

    Burn it down.

  25. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

    There you go Maynard. You could easily have your own little antifa chapter. You are either with them or against them. The house, the cars, the building—liquidate it now—for the understandable cause. This is your moment in history to do what it right. You guys can do this. Just imagine the crew, Justice fighters Mark “the ectomorph” Maynard, JBro, Sad short shorts, Harvard Jean, McDonald’s Lynne, Weeble Wobblie.

    Why don’t you do it?

  26. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

    Hint: Your not doing it has nothing to do with the real physical limitations of your crew.

  27. Lynne
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

    My bad, it was 8% of black voters who voted for Trump. I still don’t really see any huge changes in that demographic but I also haven’t run across a single black person who admits to voting for Trump so obviously I am disconnected with those voters. It will be interesting to see how those numbers might change in 2020.

    I wish I had the optimism of others who think that Trump’s obvious incompetence in this role will mean he will not be reelected. I am not so sure.

    Is Robert Reich correct here? He is a pretty smart guy but I think he is underestimating the power racism and sexism hold over many in this country. They aren’t going to vote away even a sliver of their privilege. I mean, it doesn’t matter how crappy of a job Trump is doing, EOS, FF, and HW would rather have a bad president who upholds the racist order of things than a good one who supports changes.

  28. EOS
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

    Best President in my lifetime. I think he is sexist, but not racist.

  29. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

    I can guarantee that if Trump gets re-elected it will be because there were more sexists, racists, and uncle Toms than Cassandra thought.

    “Uncle Toms” that was the phrase Lynne used, not me.

  30. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 1:17 pm | Permalink

    How about instead of McDonald’s Lynne we go with Princess “Cruise Line” Lynne? We can switch the names around however you want Maynard. I want you to feel comfortable with your crew. The important thing is that we can’t let anything stop Maynard from doing the right thing here: The house, the car, the building.

  31. Lynne
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

    FF, I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish with the name-calling. Am I expected to feel shame for eating at McDonald’s or for going on cruises? I can’t begin to fathom why you are demanding that Mark sell his possessions. Do you think you are making some kind of point?

    I would say that Donald Trump is the worst president ever but we have had some pretty bad ones. Worst president of my lifetime for sure and that is saying something since Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon were presidents at that time. But of course, that is an opinion based on my values as I am sure EOS’s opinion is based on their values. I can only assume that EOS is just fine with the sexism and is so racist as to not even see the racism coming from Trump. One wonders how anyone could not see the rounding up of brown immigrants, the ordering of meat plants to stay open thus endangering their mostly brown/black workers, or his threats to shoot the “thugs” who are rioting etc as not being racist but there we go.

  32. John Galt
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

    Mark has sympathy for the protesters! He should sell everything he owns, cast off his clothing, and sacrifice his life to the elements! There is no middle ground!

  33. Radley Balko by orixy
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

    I researched countless protests for my first book. I’ve written about many since. I think it’s safe to say that we’ve never seen the widespread, deliberate targeting of journalists by police that we’ve seen over the last few days. Something has changed.

  34. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

    Call yourself whatever you want. I was trying to come up with cute nicknames. Mark, Jean, Lynne, John, Sad and Wobblie should actually be one of the “anti fascist” organizations they claim to understand. That means live as a communist (i.e not the beneficiary of capitalism) and hit the streets for the cause now. Liquidate that dirty money for justice now! If not then why not? It is not a rhetorical question. Why not?

  35. John Galt
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 2:44 pm | Permalink


    You see journalists. I see enemies of the people.

  36. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 2:48 pm | Permalink


    I certainly understand why people would be PROTESTING. I support the protestors. Mark said he “certainly understands” people smashing windows and burning buildings—which is mostly comprised of Antifa. Why not join Antifa folks? Antifa has a history of soft support here. Zero Antifa pushback from Maynard. Why not rearrange your lives in a way that shows real understanding and support through actions? Commitment to Antifa style justice/ agenda. Why doesn’t Maynard Liquidate the house, the cars and the building. Why not? It is not a rhetorical question.

  37. Anonymous
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

    Are we reading the same site, FF?

    MM: “I don’t like that people are smashing windows and burning buildings. I certainly understand it, but I don’t like it. Like civil rights leader and Congressman John Lewis, I’d prefer that people, “Organize. Demonstrate. Sit-in. Stand-up. Vote. Be constructive.” ”

    FF: “Zero Antifa pushback from Maynard.”

    As they say, you are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. Stop being a shit head.

  38. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 3:07 pm | Permalink


    Maynard already explained “Antifa” literally means against fascism. Are you claiming Maynard is pushing back against forces that are literally against fascism? Not a rhetorical question, shit head.

  39. Anonymous
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    You said that Maynard offered “zero pushback” against the activities of Antifa in a comment thread following a post were he says explicitly that he “doesn’t like” the activities of those you call Antifa. Either you can’t read, or you’re ignoring it as it doesn’t conform to your narrative. Either way it sucks. You have no credibility.

  40. Lynne
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    FF. do you somehow think that a person can’t legitimately own personal possessions and also be anti-fascist? It think you might be confusing anti-fascism with Christianity.

  41. Jean Henry
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

    Many people are seriously criticizing the actions of the sheriff in Flint (video linked above) because he says ‘let’s make this a parade’
    Turning protest against the police into a parade waters down the intensity and the message.

    Of police want to join protests they should drop their gear and do so and then like others who are complicit in violence against communities of color, they should STFU and follow the lead of those with most at stake.

    Defining what the protest is is not the job of that Sheriff.
    I know his intentions were good and of course everyone felt relief and the lessening of tension. But tension is what creates the impetus for change.

    Now one more time the police union contract is up for renewal in A2 at tonight’s city council meeting. You do not have to live in A2 yo weigh in. If you ever travel in the jurisdiction of A2 police you have a right to weigh in.

  42. Anonymous
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    Fragile Flake:

  43. Lynne
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

    Is there something in the A2PD contract that protects them when they murder someone?

    If I were a police officer I guess I would rather be criticized for turning a protest into a parade than for lobbing tear gas and rubber bullets at protesters.

  44. Demetrius
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

    Trump is on TV right now … essentially declaring martial law.

  45. bet HW that McCabe wouldn’t be fired and all I got was this stupid name
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 6:00 pm | Permalink

    Aloha JH, it is not “tension” that provides the impetus for change. Fear is the motivator. First they will intimidate and brutalize the weakest. Then they will attempt to bribe and suborn those whom they think are leaders. We’ve seen the play book many times. But if people say “we are all leaders”, like BLM’s and ANTIFA, and keep showing up, their tactics will fail. Nixon was the worst president up to Bush and now Trump. But because he was afraid of us, we got the EPA, OSHA, the end of the Vietnam War. Victories that we still rely upon to defend ourselves. It is not tension that motivates a psychopath like Trump, it is fear. He felt some on Friday and again Sunday. We see he is shitting his pants. ” Got to Dominate the protesters, we got lots of troops to throw at them. ” You Governors who arn’t calling in the military are weak.” He lacks staying power.
    JH as long as folks like you support the increase in “tension” and your liberal leaders don’t throw the people under the bus, Biden could be President in January.

  46. iRobert
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 6:07 pm | Permalink


    Do you support the imposition of martial law?

  47. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

    Generally no but I don’t know how else to stop the destruction right now if the states are unable or unwilling to do it.

  48. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    Do you think this extraordinary outbreak of rioting could have been planned to try to force Trump into a bad situation or is it absolutely 100% organic?

  49. iRobert
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think it’s organic at all.

    States will do what is necessary. They’re already getting a handle on it.

  50. Posted June 1, 2020 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

    I thought this was interesting…

    Leonydus Johnson (@LeonydusJohnson) Tweeted:

    “For every 10,000 black people arrested for violent crime, 3 are killed

    For every 10,000 white people arrested for violent crime, 4 are killed

    I’m going to keep tweeting this until someone can explain to me how this is possible if there is truly pervasive racial bias in policing”

  51. iRobert
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 7:48 pm | Permalink

    Mark Cuban’s response to Leonydus Johnson was pretty good.

    I’d like to see people make more statistical comparisons on these issues though. People are too easily manipulated.

  52. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 7:50 pm | Permalink


    Everyone who reads this site knows MM stands for MealyMouthed.

    MM proposed: 1) Antifa *is* an anti fascist force; 2) someone aligning oneself against Antifa is aligning oneself with fascism; 3) It is “clearly understandable” that people would break windows and burn buildings; 4) and he also said he would prefer people not commit violent crimes.

    If you want to use 4) to show that I was wrong that MM actually pushed back Antifa MORE THAN ZERO, then I will concede your point. I don’t think it is a great victory for you though. What do you do with the other propositions 1,2, and 3? How do all of the propositions 1-4 fit together with INTEGRITY as a whole? Does the implied support for Antifa in propositions 1,2,3 outweigh the little push back in 4? Would that outweighing make the pushback against Antifa less than zero?

    Note: I am trying to understand why someone would state propositions 1,2,3 and then not take steps to join that group or support that group in concrete and direct ways. I want to know how someone can say they “clearly understand” the breaking of windows and burning of buildings AND to in the next breath say but I don’t do that and I don’t want them to do that? It’s a genuine and non-rhetorical question: Why not join Antifa? Why not go all in on a movement if you find it important, necessary and “understandable” in the fight against something you consider an evil?

    Ironically, Anonymous is highlighting an example of MM’s mealy mouthed writing when he is trying to offer a defense against the accusation that MM writes with a mealy mouth. I am asking the question to provoke Mark to give a straightforward statement about Antifa. He can’t though because as HW pointed out proposition 1 and 2 are so dreadfully dumb. Maybe a re-thinking is in order? Rephrasing?

    Maybe the best thing to ask is: How is it that MM “clearly understands” the breaking of windows and burning windows? How is that question formulated Anonymous?

  53. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 7:53 pm | Permalink


    I am operating under the informed assumption/ opinion that Antifa has a communist agenda.

  54. josh
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

    Weird, the Flint police chief didn’t come out less-lethal weapons blazing and…just walked out into the crowd, alone, fearlessly, and…of course nothing bad happened to him, because people are protesting violence in the first place.

    The fearless part would be tough for anyone—I can see how people with ACAB signs would be nerve-wracking. Glad he did that.

  55. Sad
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

    It’s getting dark

    Time to go out and fight the power!

  56. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

    I think we all agree that Floyd was murdered. 3rd degree murder is too soft of a charge. And protests for Floyd are 100% justified. If they plea bargain down it is unacceptable.

    At the same time: Fuck Antifa! When they do a criminal act arrest their skinny asses. Those are my opinions.

  57. Sad
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

    Of course you should arrest us

    But first you have to catch us

    How’s your vegetable garden FF?

    After my love affair with Mayor Pete it was nice to be embraced by the loving arms of Antifa

  58. Jean Henry
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

    Lynne— the police union contract was tabled until fall so there’s plants of time for input. The core issue very quickly: The contract stipulates that any complaints about police abuse of power will be resolved by arbitration. A Community Police Review Commission was formed a few years ago. Because if this stipulation in the union contract they have little actual power. Today CM’s we’re suggesting They propose training etc. while training is great it doesn’t help much when abuse occurs. A change in that part of the contract will likely be challenged in court by the union. I believe it’s worth the trouble.
    Here is a link to a twitter thread by the people who reviews the contract and compared it to others.

  59. Jean Henry
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 8:46 pm | Permalink

    Also linking this good thread about police reform strategies that don’t go as deep as abolition. (Police abolition movement envisions a restorative justice victim-based model with rehabilitative services as focus instead of punishment in most cases.)
    First steps to reform:

  60. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 8:46 pm | Permalink


    The pathway to anarchy is paved with randomness.

  61. Sad
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 8:55 pm | Permalink

    I’m putting one foot in front of the other

    “For what are myths if not the imposing of order on phenomena that do not possess order in themselves? And all myths, however they differ from philosophical systems and scientific theories, share this with them, that they negate the principle of randomness in the world.” ~ Stanislaw Lem

  62. Jean Henry
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

    What fascism looks like:

  63. Jean Henry
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    FF needs to study chaos theory.

  64. Sad
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

    If only FF was as interested in others words as he is his own

  65. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 10:16 pm | Permalink

    “They’re already getting a handle on it.”

    They must really have their shit together to already be getting a handle on it several nights into it!

  66. Jean Henry
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

    Another great resource re police reform applicable to any community.

  67. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 10:40 pm | Permalink

    Thanks for asking about the garden, Sad. I don’t have much to say about it besides the fact that there is a snake that spends more time there than I do. Maybe you could ask the snake to tell you a story about the garden and report back to us?

  68. Sad
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 11:34 pm | Permalink

    The farmer and the viper

  69. Anonymous
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 5:49 am | Permalink

    This is what the snake told me:

  70. Sad
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 6:37 am | Permalink

    The farmer and the viper

  71. iRobert
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 7:23 am | Permalink

    Yes, HW, local and state police have been arresting the rioters, looters and provocateurs. They’ve been identifying and investigating many more and will arrest them too.

    Meanwhile, the idiot you worship is having police fire on peaceful protestors before the curfew, so he can do a photo op.

  72. stupid hick
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 7:32 am | Permalink

    “Best President in my lifetime. I think he is sexist, but not racist.”

    Oh he’s racist too. But more importantly, do you think he might also be a deranged and malignant idiot who is completely full of shit whose only interest is himself? That’s what it seems like to me. He is causing incalculable damage to our country and to the extent that any “conservative” goals may have been achieved during his reign, they are in spite of him, not because of him.

  73. Jean Henry
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 7:32 am | Permalink

    My daughters friend was tear gassed and arrested in NY with a bunch of other people and thrown into a paddy wagon. She was held in tight quarters with many others for 6 hours without water or a phone call. When they demanded water, they ere threatened. Eventually some non-police jail workers got them water. Then they were released without charges.

    They had been doing nothing remotely violent.The placed themselves as white kids between the cops and protestors. The cops were trying to break up the protests. That’s not their job.

    FF I think the you and all of us here would be well served if you spent more time in the garden and less on this platform. There’s nothing dangerous about most Michigan snakes.

  74. iRobert
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 7:35 am | Permalink

    Antifa are violent and stupid. They contribute nothing positive to any movement for change. They do damage to any legitimate movement to establish justice.

    All decent people are anti-fascist – genuinely anti-fascist. Those stupid and violent people who call themselves “Antifa” are not anti-fascist.

  75. iRobert
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 7:39 am | Permalink

    Will your daughter’s friend be filing a formal complaint against the police? Will her friend be filing a lawsuit?

  76. Sad
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    FF is holding the snake.


  77. Jean Henry
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    She is in contact with the NLG. I believe there will be many lawsuits. I don’t think they will produce justice. I worked for the NLG in Detroit in the late 80’s/early 90’s. There were constant lawsuits for police brutality. Coleman Young has a policy of taking every case to appeal. The city would lose. I Nothing changed. I watched mostly white civil rights lawyers (good people!) become wealthy off of the broke city of Detroit. This was in a Black controlled city with a Black controlled police force. Imagine the structural barriers to change in a place with a white police force and leadership.

    Change will only happen when we do not allow racism and racist violence to be normalized.

    The only path to that, given the intense resiliency and self-perpetuation of structural and cultural racism, begins with mass protest.

    We wonks can’t make any inroads with A2 politicians on changing the police union contract without outside pressure. They need to feel political pressure (And power) stronger than the police union to take that on. Then the city will face lawsuit knowing the citizenry support it.

    The union contract renewal was postponed to this fall btw. Faux liberal city council reps are pushing citizens who contact them re police abuses to suggest police training strategies. They are trying to redirect people away from the contract. Most A2 ppl will accept the easy and ineffective path that looks like change but isn’t.

    Don’t fall for it.

    Enough is enough.

    Thank you protesters.

  78. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 8:38 am | Permalink

    FF is just asking why the progressive elders of our community do not join Antifa. It is not a rhetorical question. Why is this question met with evasiveness and hostility?

  79. Anonymous
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 8:57 am | Permalink

    Anonymous is wondering why FF has begun to refer to himeslf in the third person. It’s a sign of something, to be sure.

  80. Jean Henry
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 9:00 am | Permalink

    There is no antifa to join, FF. There’s no organization. People can choose to identify themselves as anti-fascists or not. I know you have been sucking up that right wing media poison and that you look uncritically at the President’s talking points even though he lies literally daily, but the people being arrested and assaulted by police are not Antifa. They are regular citizens out protesting peacefully. Their violations are things like being out after curfew. Most of the time their violations are not illegal at all. They are simply where the police don’t want them to be. Our police force believe they make up the laws. They control the citizenry. That’s not their job; that’s a military occupation.

    The protestors are not Antifa. Since no one is really clear on what that means, many if asked will for sure say they are anti-fascist. So would I if asked. I believe Trump is proto-fascist and have said so from the get go. Anytime a word is ill-defined it can be manipulated by political forces.

    We don’t accept your definition of the term Antifa and so it follows that we can’t agree to anything you have to say about them. Get over it. Just find something else to talk about. Or get out in the damn garden. I beckons you. We do not.

  81. Anonymous
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    Stupid is as stupid does

  82. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 9:06 am | Permalink


    Perhaps a sign FF is going crazy. Is the question FF asked crazy though?

  83. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    But I support the protestors. The third degree murder charge is too soft. I want that department investigated. Did the department know that cop did that shit. I guarantee that is not the first time he did that maneuver.

    I also agree that the protestors are not Antifa. I am a kind of protestor. I am protesting right now and I am not Antifa. I am not Antifa because I think they have a communist agenda that they believe can only be installed after a great calamity. The chaos they create is in service to creating more chaos.

  84. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 9:33 am | Permalink

    “There is no antifa to join, FF. There’s no organization.”

    You are going to find out you are dead wrong.

  85. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    From the police POV the protestors are unintentionally providing cover for Antifa,Criminals and vandals. That is why I think it is important to think about Antifa critically. Why do the progressive elders of this community and others refuse to take a stand? Why so mealy mouthed? These are not rhetorical questions. These are essential questions.

    We have a great opportunity here. I fear we are blowing it.

  86. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    “The protestors are not Antifa.”

    How do you function in life? You could turn it around instantly if you somehow learned to think the opposite of your instinct.

  87. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    Antifa TRAVELS from other states to cause destruction in other people’s cities. Together. With weapons. Not an organization?

  88. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 10:00 am | Permalink

    Former Black Lives Matter Ferguson Organizer, Chaziel Sunz exposed BLM, Democrats, ANTIFA, etc. In 2017, Chaziel Sunz shined the light on who pays for ANTIFA, Black Lives Matter, what the plan is of the Democratic Party using the groups.

  89. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 10:24 am | Permalink

    Thank you for sharing this video HW.

  90. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    Here to help.

  91. Sad
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 10:48 am | Permalink

    Yes I signed up for Antifa a few years ago.

    The initiation ceremony was a bit harsh.

    But the annual membership fee is pretty inexpensive and includes a get out of jail free card.

    The weekly meetings are a hoot.

  92. Lynne
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 11:32 am | Permalink

    HW, I think there are organized groups who form online who use the name “Antifa” but they aren’t connected to each other in meaningful ways nor are they usually formal groups. I have no idea how FF could possibly have the “informed” opinion that Antifa has a communist agenda although I am sure that there are some who do who also claim the label Antifa. The few people I have run into online who claim the Antifa label have been anarchists fwiw.

    There clearly are people out there who want to sow violence. Russia for one. White nationalists. Extreme left-wing agitators. and so on. It is not ok and it all gets blamed on people of color.

  93. ‘Antifa’
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 12:25 pm | Permalink


    Dear Mr. Trump:

    Let us be perfectly clear:

    “Antifa” isn’t an organization. There’s no membership, no meetings, no dues, no rules, no leaders, no structure. It is, literally, an idea and nothing more. Even the claim of this author to represent “Antifa” is one made unilaterally for the purposes of this communication and nothing more; there is no governing body nor trademark owner to dispute the author’s right to represent “AntiFa.”

    “Antifa” is a neologism constructed from a contraction of the phrase “anti-fascist.” The truth is, there’s no such thing as being “anti-Fascist.” Either you are a decent human being with a conscience, or you are a fascist.

    The ostensible president of the United States has, today, openly declared that he is a fascist, and that he intends to turn the military power of the United States into a fascist tool.

    Now there is no question, and we can stop pretending that this man represents anything but the worst in humanity, which his supporters embody.

    And that is the only effect his words will have.

    It will likely be no problem for LEO to identify the author of this document, who also has maintained the “AntiFa” page on Facebook since founding it in 2017.

    The author of this document is unconcerned with that inevitability because neither that author, nor this document, has been involved in a crime of any sort in any way.

    But, since both the “president” and the media insist on acting as though “AntiFa” is this big, scary organization, the author supposes it’s time for “AntiFa” to make a statement.


    “AntiFa supports and defends the right of all people to live free from oppressive abuse of power, whether that power is unjustly derived from wealth, status as an employer, or political popularity.

    Particularly, AntiFa defends and supports the right of oppressed and marginalized people to protest, march, and engage in civil disobedience in pursuit of justice. While it is never our intent to engage in violent or destructive behavior, we cannot and will not take responsibility for telling people how they are allowed to be righteously outraged. We prefer and encourage non-violent action. We also understand that some people just aren’t feeling that nice anymore. Their feelings are entirely justified, and it is neither our role nor our privilege to tell them otherwise.

    Mass civil disobedience is what happens when people say they’re hurting and whoever’s hurting them refuses to stop.

    Stop hurting them. Fix your broken systems. Get real and meaningful psychological evaluations and background checks – police in some nations have to pass a more stringent test to carry pepper spray than any police department in the US, or the US military, have in place. As a direct and possibly deliberate consequence, our military and paramilitary personnel simply cannot be assumed to be fighting in the interests of the people of this country.

    We’ve all seen the photos. This destruction and burning and looting is largely the behavior of outsiders; white people taking advantage of the situation both to enrich themselves by looting under cover of the protests, and to provide excuses for uncontrolled fascist elements within our military and police forces as plausible cover for killing more black, brown, and poor people without fear of sanction. The so-called “accellerationists” who have committed to ensuring that, any time a marginalized community stands up and demands justice, construct a narrative of criminality and destruction that white bigots and affluent oligarchs who benefit from our broken system to validate their bigotry and injustice retroactively. They are successful in this for two reasons: because people like you are easily manipulated in your banal, self-serving ignorance, and because people like you are more than happy to passive-aggressively reap the benefits of pretending to believe this destruction is the act of the oppressed.

    This game has gone on for decades on an endless loop since the very dawn of the civil rights era, and we the people are saying ‘no more.’”

    And that, “President” Trump, is your solution. No more. Get the dirt out of your law enforcement and your military. Get the dirt out of your government and administration. Ideally, resign now and take your VP and cabinet with you; Nancy Pelosi isn’t a great deal of improvement, but she’ll only be president for a few months.

    You can’t arrest 100 million of us, sir, and you would be well-advised not to try. If you think that targeting and “making an example of” the author of this document will get you anywhere, you may rest assured that this author is more than prepared to allow his real name to be used as a rallying cry for justice and civil disobedience from coast to coast.

    It is time for you and everyone who thinks like you to understand that whether black, red, brown, white, or any other color, Americans are done living in a nation of empty platitudes and broken promises.

    Traditionally, this type of document is accompanied by a list of “demands.” Here are our demands:

    -Universal single payer health care, without regard for citizenship status.

    -Universal basic income WITH a federal job guarantee, under which the federal government becomes the “employer of last resort.” Involuntary unemployment is a function of profiteering by fascist capitalist oligarchs who are willing to sacrifice the lives of others for their own enrichment. It must end.

    -The abolition of “right to work laws” which do exactly the opposite of ensuring anyone’s right to work.

    -Publicly funded higher education.

    -Robust and effective social welfare programs to include child care, education, employment training and counseling, parenting skills training, and life skills training including fiscal education.

    -A requirement that functional proficiency in media, political, and economic literacy be demonstrated to graduate high school.

    -The creation of a publicly funded non-partisan media source to serve as the primary source of government information, to be overseen and managed day to day by a coalition of well-known communicators, political scientists, and other experts in propaganda to strip ALL bias from official information before it is broadcast.

    -Federal charges of treason filed against anyone willfully and knowingly attempting to minimize public perception of the impact and risks of the coronavirus.

    -Reform of whistleblower laws to ensure they have teeth, and particularly to ensure that a whistleblower, acting in good faith, is not identified to the public, ever.

    In the end, Mr. “President,” the simple reality is that “AntiFa” isn’t a thing. You can’t end it, you can’t arrest it, and you can’t silence it. Nor, in any decent nation, would the attempt even be made.

    “Antifa” means “Anti-Fascism.” The only position that opposes that is fascism. In the end, there is no “organization” that you can “declare terrorists.”

    You, sir, and yours, are the terrorists, and your victims are done putting up with it.

    America is not, in spite of having an openly admitted fascist as “president,” a fascist nation. We’ve had wars about this. The fascists are 0-2.

    Please, Mr. “President” – let’s not try to make it 0-3? Because it will never, ever be 1-2, and none of us wants to see the death toll from your attempt to make it so.

    Currently, media and other actors wishing to contact this author may do so through the page. Should Mr. Zuckerberg, who has displayed plenty of authoritarian and fascist tendencies himself, decide not to host that page any longer, this document will be updated.

    Best Regards,


  94. Jean Henry
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

    HW— I thought you were ‘rigorous’ about checking your sources. That guy never organized shit. He’s just another paranoid stoned spouting shit off on social media. You all on right wing social media ran with that ball so he had to clarify.

    He just came up with those theories in his bedroom.

    Does it bother you at all that you repeat whatever is viral on right wing social media without ever thinking critically about it?

  95. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    How does an incorrect title negate his stated observations as a person in a community or close to it? I thought it was a wonderful video. I am not sure if the direct Clinton/ Soros connection is actually there. I am not sure it matters.

    Change the title if you want. That man spoke with wisdom. Jean, whose parents met at Harvard, called him a “stoner”. Why so dismissive?

    Let me clue the CNN bits into something. Many in the black community and many Trump supporters have something very key in common. It’s not paranoia and weed. What is it?

  96. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 12:57 pm | Permalink


  97. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

    People are not as dumb as you think they are. You are not half as smart as you think you are.

  98. Lynne
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    Yes, we already know that many Trump supporters and black people have things in common.

  99. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    Well done Lynne. It’s a great sketch. The thing I was specifically thinking of is a shared suspicion of government and media.

  100. Posted June 2, 2020 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    There is totally a mistrust and suspicion of government and media among both groups. Interestingly also very common in very educated progressive groups. I first discovered that at the dog park in Sebastopol California when I was there just after the Fukushima disaster and started trolling people by telling them that granite is radioactive and that they were getting more radiation from their granite countertops than they were getting from Japan. It was a true statement but it morphed quickly into an idea that granite countertops are dangerous. I think if I had put out a youtube video, it might have gone viral. LOL

  101. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

    “HW— I thought you were ‘rigorous’ about checking your sources. That guy never organized shit. He’s just another paranoid stoned spouting shit off on social media. You all on right wing social media ran with that ball so he had to clarify.
    He just came up with those theories in his bedroom.
    Does it bother you at all that you repeat whatever is viral on right wing social media without ever thinking critically about it?”

    Oh that’s what you get out of what he said? Presumably he was involved in activism and saw what he said he saw. The vid description is irrelevant. If you think is what you say he is why don’t you let him know? You like to call other people blowhards but you never are willing to follow up with your ridiculous attacks.

    I notice you really hate it when black people get out of line and don’t want to be told what to believe. The Ghanaians you said were paid to say WWG1WGA, this fellow, anyone who wants to get off the plantation…Why is that?

  102. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

    If you think *he* is what you say

  103. Jean Henry
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    HW I provided a link. He wasn’t an organizer if anything. He said so. I have no problem telling people when they are being played. But my issue isn’t with him or what he say, it’s with your lies in presenting him as any authority on anything. He wasn’t an organizer at Ferguson or anywhere. You lied.

  104. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

    What a dumbass Jean is. He was RBG, not BLM. He even said in the vid if you are BLM you are lost. I never heard of RBG and probably most people haven’t either so they used a clickbaity title that people understand. Durf!

    RBG: Revolutionary but Gangsta – › wiki ›

    RBG was described by M-1 as a movement that “comes off the back of the Honorable Marcus Garvey.” According to him, “RBG means Red, Black and Green,” …
    Released‎: ‎March 30, 2004 Producer‎: ‎Sean Cane; Stic; Tahir
    Length‎: ‎44:18

  105. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

    I never said he was an organizer. It’s the vid description and it clickbaity but true enough. That’s not the point. How fuckin’ pedantic can you be?

  106. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

    Chaziel in 2013:

    This is the revolution

    Are you afraid of the truth my lords? Is the truth blasphemy? Is the truth hate? Is the truth antiamerican aka anti-white? If so I am all of these things with no apologies. I was taught the truth will set you free not only when the truths convenient.

    This is for my melanated, black gods reincarnated from the original magnificent creations all of you every black Christian, Muslim, or uncle Tom, this is my gift to you. I know I am god you need to own that fact. These devils have you terrified to say it, got you scared of who you are, have you worshipping that blue eyed blond haired white jesus scaring you half to death saying you gonna burn forever and ever and all of eternity if you don’t worship this, but he loves you. Meanwhile you got this paleskinned devil hanging on your walls convincing you that this world is six thousand years old. Now that’s blasphemy, using fear to control you. It’s six thousand years old alright for those paleskinned devils who were created from us.

    This entry was posted in melaninated knowledge on November 3, 2013.

    What a transformation! He seems reasonable now.

  107. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

    “I provided the link”—Jean Henry

    Thanks for the link, now we are asking you to provide some reasoning skills. The young man clarified the misleading nature of the title that someone attached to his 18 minute video within which he displayed some interesting insights and wisdom, imo. Someone else slapping a misleading label on his video does not nullify the content of what he said.

    I don’t know though maybe you are right. Your parents did meet at Harvard and this black kid is probably just a stoner making up bullshit in his basement like you said.

  108. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 7:39 pm | Permalink

    That’s what babies do. “Oh I got you I got you! No matter it’s irrelevant!”

    He’s not saying he made it all up. What a dickhead level of understanding to think that.

  109. Jean Henry
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

    FF- your anti-intellectualism is surprising from someone with such a profound belief in logic and reason.

    HW– you pull gotchu crap all the time. I actually can’t look into anything you say without finding that it’s utter bullshit. So the gotcha thing is just a natural consequence of checking out your batshit theories. I’m fine never checking out anything you say ever again. That way the gotcha thing is solved.

  110. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 9:49 pm | Permalink

    What in the world is that supposed to mean? Are you saying I am anti-intellectual because I use your Harvard connections to try to suggest you have a classist impulse? OMG.

  111. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 10:34 pm | Permalink

    It’s not bullshit just like I prove every single time. There is nothing worse than someone who is too stupid to know how dumb they are. If you want to harp on the vid title then fine: you win an award for catching me on a pedantic detail.

  112. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 2, 2020 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

    Give some examples of my “gotchu crap” then.

  113. Lynne
    Posted June 3, 2020 at 9:54 am | Permalink

    HW, I stopped paying attention to most of the links you post because fact-checking so often revealed that you were posting false information. You will believe ANYTHING if it fits your world view. You don’t have any credibility.

    You “gotcha” people here quite often. Usually when you declare yourself a winner in an argument or crow about how you bested someone (even though I haven’t actually seen it).

  114. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 3, 2020 at 10:07 am | Permalink

    Show me one false thing I ever posted or you agree you are full of shit.

  115. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 4, 2020 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

    Glad you see you agree that you are full of shit.

  116. Lynne
    Posted June 4, 2020 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

    Um.. no.

    I didn’t respond to you because I have nothing to prove. I am confident that most people can see that you post BS frequently and are just not credible in general.

  117. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 4, 2020 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    Over-confident in the extreme. It doesn’t matter what you think most people see anyway. Most people don’t even know I exist or you or this blog or anything.

  118. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 4, 2020 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    But if you never ever can provide evidence to support your opinion, let alone even understand the difference between opinion and fact how do you think that reflects on what you say? Pretty good? Doesn’t matter because HW is a blah blah blah and not worth your time and effort and everyone can see blah blah blah blah blah?

    Can’t back it up don’t make the claim. I would feel like a dick if I lived that way. Good thing I use evidence to construct my arguments. Usually I don’t even need to add more than the evidence itself. The evidence blows your feelings away.

  119. Posted June 6, 2020 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

  120. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 6, 2020 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    “Antifa isn’t even real,” Boulton said.

    How are they not real? I mean…wtf is wrong with you people? Nothing real is real. Only the unreal is real and it is all based on some pathological drive to make the world fit into the lies you have attached to.

  121. Lynne
    Posted June 6, 2020 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

    HW, you believe a lot of things that are not real.

  122. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 6, 2020 at 11:56 pm | Permalink

    If you had evidence to prove what I believe, let alone what is real you could put it up at any time. You can’t though. All you have are vague claims with no support; Baby Lynne.

  123. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 13, 2020 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

    Update from Chaziel Sunz.

    Hey Jean, here’s another black person you have made disparaging claims about that you could easily contact and see what happens when you say it to them. 2.7k likes to 24 dislikes: let’s see how you do in the comments section talking the same shit as you do here.

  124. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2020 at 9:11 pm | Permalink

    “Antifa, short for anti-fascists, hasn’t killed anyone and appears to have been only a marginal presence in Black Lives Matter protests. None of those arrested on serious federal charges related to the unrest have been linked to antifa.”

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