Sisters are doing it for themselves

For the past few days, I’ve wanted to invest some time in writing a comprehensive post about Trump’s former ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Yovanovitch, and his former top Russia advisor, Fiona Hill, both of whom defied the administration’s non-cooperation edict, and agreed to tell their stories behind closed doors on Capital Hill, demonstrating the kind of character we’ve not seen to date from other members of the administration, like former White House counsel Don McGahn.

Unfortunately, though, I just haven’t had the time. And, because of this, I feel as though I may have now missed my opportunity to make the case that women are far superior to men when it comes to standing up to corruption, as some of the less fair sex, like Michael McKinley, a former senior adviser to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, are finally starting to come forward and provide testimony. [It should be noted that these men may well have been inspired by the actions of Hill and Yovanovitch, though.]

But, a few days ago, reading about Yovanovitch and Hill, I was really struck by this sense that, if we’re ever going to make it through this chapter in American history, it’ll be thanks to women, who, unlike their male counterparts, have proven more willing to come forward and speak the truth when confronted by the kind of illegal activities that this President has clearly been engaged in.

I don’t know how true this narrative that I’m pushing is, as it’s been reported, for instance, that the national security whistleblower who set all of this in motion is in fact a male, but I really like the idea of Donald “grab ’em by the pussy” Trump being besieged by growing army of courageous women of character. Again, I know it’s not that simple of a narrative, and I’m aware that, for every female member of the administration testifying, there are probably dozens of Kellyanne Conway types who will never stop doing the bidding of this horribly corrupt president, and countless women like Senator Susan Collins, who are happy to just look the other way, but I want to believe that, when all is said and done, it’ll be the women who made the difference, and I’m curious as to what others think.

Speaking of the strong women standing up to the bullying and threats of Donald Trump, did you happen to see that the President posted a photo of Nancy Pelosi earlier today with the intention of demonstrating her to be “unhinged”?

The President of the United States went on, in a following tweet, to say, “Nancy Pelosi needs help fast! There is either something wrong with her ‘upstairs,’ or she just plain doesn’t like our great Country. She had a total meltdown in the White House today. It was very sad to watch. Pray for her, she is a very sick person!”

Well, judging from the response I’m seeing, most people, it would appear, perceive this particular Rorschach test a little differently than Donald Trump. When they look at the above photo, they aren’t seeing a mad-woman who had the audacity to stand up in a room full of men and hector them, but a powerful and courageous woman willing to stand toe-to-toe with the most corrupt leader in American history, and say to his face that she is not afraid of his… And, then, by the way, go back to her office and update the header image on her Twitter page.

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164 Comments

  1. Anonymous
    Posted October 16, 2019 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

    Amber Tamblyn: Every woman has experienced being the only Nancy in a room full of Trumps. This image is all too familiar for us. For women of color, for trans women, for disabled women— we have been here. And we will stay here. Never shutting up or giving up.

  2. 734
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 6:06 am | Permalink

    He’s not coming forward with evidence of a crime but here’s another man finally stepping up….

    “I don’t say this lightly, and I worked for two years in the Trump administration. He doesn’t know what he’s doing or talking about. He made this decision on Sunday night without any contingency plan for our troops on the ground.” -Brett McGurk, former special presidential envoy

  3. iRobert
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 6:22 am | Permalink

    I’ve always referred to it as the “Why?” Chromosome.

  4. Stephen King by proxy
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 6:39 am | Permalink

    What I noticed about that conference table pic? Only one woman in the room, and not a single person of color. If I want to look at an old white guy, I’ll use the bathroom mirror.

  5. iRobert
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:05 am | Permalink

    Though I only see one woman at the conference table, I do see a room full of pussies.

  6. Anonymous
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:21 am | Permalink

    Pelosi is stronger than Trump, who just whines like a baby at the first sign of trouble.

  7. iRobert
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:28 am | Permalink

    When you think about it, what you see there is what’s left after all the spines have been weeded out and driven off. That’s a room full of sediment.

    That’s why not one of those pathetic assholes intervened when temper-tantrum Trump ordered the abandonment of the Kurds.

  8. John Brown
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:32 am | Permalink

    That brain addled ruskie stooge pulled out of Syria so fast when he got the word from pooty that we had to deploy F15s to bomb our own base to destroy the ammunition depot and useful equipment our troops had to leave behind. Greatest traitor ever. No quarter for him or his supporters, ever.

  9. iRobert
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:40 am | Permalink

    Can we get thousands of stupid-looking hats manufactured that say “Making Russia Great Again” to pass out at GOP events?

  10. iRobert
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    I want to go as Putin for Halloween and have a little Trump puppet to visit all the registered Republicans in my precinct.

  11. Bob
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 8:37 am | Permalink

    They are heroes. Pelosi is maybe a bridge too far for me. She still seems to be trying to smother an immediate impeachment vote. She is also far too polarizing to be the dems media spokesperson. They need to stay away from her, Schumer and Schiff at press conferences. It’s not helping. Your basic premise about women being more honorable than men in the face of corruption is undeniably true though.

    I would also mention what happened Monday with Chris Hayes. Just last week I mentioned to Jean that she should actually bother watching the network she was bashing for Hayes, if nothing else. He opened his show by defying a direct order to not talk about the NBC news treatment of Ronan Farrow and his investigative work on Harvey Weinstein and others. Hayes went on the air and firmly denounced his own news organizations complicity in burying the story of powerful men, including their own Matt Lauer. It’s kind of remarkable. He’s a hero too.

  12. Lynne
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:20 am | Permalink

    I love Pelosi. Especially because she makes men like Trump uncomfortable by not shutting up. I don’t see her as polarizing any more than anyone who doesn’t meet the ideological purity test of the Bernie Bros would be. Heck, even women who DO meet their purity tests are seen as polarizing just for being in the race this time around. Like seriously, I had a Bernie Bro actually suggest that Warren was running on a progressive platform just to hurt Bernie! *rolls eyes*

  13. John Brown
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:36 am | Permalink

    As a recovering toxic masculinity sufferer, I was furious that Pelosi was slow walking impeachment. Now, I have to admit it’s looking like her approach is giving us the best chance of achieving the dual goals of stringing up agent orange and dominating the 2020 election. Of course a lot of the credit will go to agent orange himself, which she foresaw.

  14. Bob
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:42 am | Permalink

    Lynne, does the continued use of “Bernie Bro” refer to AOC and the squad who have all endorsed Bernie for president? Or the millions of other strong women who do? I’ll bet if someone were writing about their dislike for “Hillary Bitches,” you and Jean would be having fits. Incredibly stupid and offensive. Almost Hyborian Warlord stupid.

  15. Max
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    I like Pelosi and think that she is doing a fantastic job. From what I’ve read, if they hold a vote in the house, it could open up investigative opportunities by the minority party where they have the potential of looking into everything from Hillary’s emails, pizza shop basements or whatever nonsense Q is spewing to bog everything down till kingdom come. If they don’t need to hold a vote to proceed, by all means proceed. That talking point doesn’t seem to have a lot of traction for the administration right now…Sondland is distancing himself as far as humanly possible from Trump and Giuliani this very minute by testifying before impeachment investigators.

  16. Posted October 17, 2019 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    Pelosi is speaking about the meeting love now.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i5tx3kkYHf0

  17. Posted October 17, 2019 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    LIVE now

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i5tx3kkYHf0

  18. Lynne
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 10:22 am | Permalink

    No Bob. Not *all* of Sanders’s supporters are sexist assholes. Just a significant number of them. you are one. I have not seen any such behavior coming from Hillary supporters but I suppose IF one did ever treat you in the way the Bernie Bros treat women regularly you could use a similarly derogatory term but ‘bitch’ would not be it. If you think that ‘bitch’ is on par with ‘bro’ you are part of the problem. Now if someone were calling such people ‘hillary sisses’ that would be comparable.

  19. Lynne
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 10:34 am | Permalink

    Anyways, listening to men whine about terms like “Bernie Bro” is a lot like listening to white people (usually men for some reason) complain about terms like “Wipipo” as if it is anywhere nearly as horrible as the N-word.

    Anyways, I am sorry that some of you guys are so afraid of strong women that you perceive anyone pointing that out as being as stupid as HW or FF. However, that reflects YOUR character more than the women you are denigrating for having or seeking power.

  20. Bob
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 10:35 am | Permalink

    I’d like to see this vast evidence of sexist Bernie Bro behavior, myself included. I never disparaged Hillary for anything except her corporate ties and general republican behavior. You are a list. If memory serves, you took me to task a few years ago for referring to her as Shillary. You couldn’t be bothered to read it correctly and saw it as “Shrillary.” Neither you or Jean seem capable of actually reading or writing carefully enough before you respond. Getting around Jean’s typos in particular is a chore. As tiresome as Bernie Bro. Beyond dumb.

  21. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 10:55 am | Permalink

    Lynne goes out of her way to distinguish the terms “Bro” from “supporter” in order to define the term “Bernie Bro” as including a strong element of misogyny. In the next breath she wants to try to argue that “Bro”, as she uses the term, is not as derogatory of a term as “bitch” and thinking there is an equivalency reveals an underlying sexism in the person who sees an equivalency.

    The problem for Lynne is the thing in question was whether or not the accusation of misogyny is reflecting some sort of reality. What should we call someone who levies a false accusation in the form of a gross generalization in order to gain a perceived advantage? Not something nice, right? Lynne would like to have us call a person who is pointing out her hypocrisy and sophistry as just “part of the sexism problem”.

    Creepy and fucked up logic, Lynne.

  22. Lynne
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    Bob, if you don’t have the ability to see this sexist behavior that is your problem. It is all around and yes “Shrillery” was absolutely a sexist term! If you can’t put that term in the context of powerful outspoken women being called “shrill” since forever, then I am not sure how to explain it.

    If you can’t see how women are in a better position to see sexism then men in the same way that black people are in a better position to see racism than white people, so you can’t trust women when they say that they are personally experiencing sexism as part of their actual lived experience, again, I am not sure how to explain that to you. I will say that your dismissiveness is a symptom and a sign of your views.

  23. Lynne
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    FF, you really are not in a position to have anything credible to say here. As usual.

  24. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 11:01 am | Permalink

    Lynne does not get it. We don’t dislike you because you are strong. We dislike you because you are very weak. Your arguments are too weak to handle the truth so you lie. Your identity relies on the lies you tell about others. You can’t get weaker than that.

  25. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    I honestly thought it was “Shill-ary”.

    LOL. You heard “Shrill”?

  26. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    Once we all get past this sexism thing people will realize that Hillary has a great personality. She is funny too. We just can’t see how good she is because we see the world through our sexist lenses.

  27. Lynne
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    Hillary does have a great personality and a wonderful sense of humor!

    FF, it it were only me I could find some validity to your argument. However, you seem to think that all strong women make weak arguments and I have only seen you support female candidates who don’t have a chance of winning like Gabbard. That just simply damages your credibility so if you want to think I make weak arguments, that is fine. You don’t matter because you have demonstrated here OFTEN that you are too sexist to form any kind of meaningful opinion on the subject.

  28. John Brown
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    “We dislike you because you are very weak. Your arguments are too weak to handle the truth so you lie. Your identity relies on the lies you tell about others. You can’t get weaker than that.”

    Too funny! To hear this from an agent orange enabler, the weakest, lyingest POS in the history of US politics. Rich as hell. Freud would chuckle. Seriously, this is exactly how all us sane people see you and your deranged orange asshole.

  29. Lynne
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 11:50 am | Permalink

    An example of some recent Bernie Bro behavior I have encountered. Alas, I can’t find it right now, it was in a FB group I read but I will paraphrase. Basically this Bernie Bro was upset that people are saying Warren is the current front runner. He was suggesting that the polls showing that she may be are rigged because of course he cannot believe that a woman might appeal to voters. This is similar to the narrative that HRC got so many million more votes than Bernie because she cheated and not because *millions* more people turned up to vote for her in the primary. He simply cannot believe that anyone actually likes her. He also accused her of stealing Bernie’s ideas without *really* supporting them because of course she is only running in order to weaken Bernie’s chances. Then he called the Democratic party a matriarchy and said that until we deal with the corruption of women in the party, we will be doomed to lose all elections (kind of similar to how FF blames outspoken women for Trump’s win). Somehow in all of that he thought that this matriarchy is trying to get BIDEN elected. huh? what? Anyways, it was a hilarious rant at least.

  30. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

    Aloha JB and all the other Russaphobe’s. I know I have been sloughing off of my putin puppet duties, but do not fear. Mentioned how I go to this Democratic web site. They are all in an uproar over Putin withdrawing from International Humanitarian Fact Finding Commission (IHFFC) which is an addendum protocol to the 1949 Geneva Accords. They are accusing him of wanting to hide war crimes against civilians. They are so stupid, they don’t realize that the United States has never signed onto the IHFFC. That way we have been able to protect our war criminals from international justice.
    I suspect Tulsi would join the IHFFC, but war mongers like JB want to protect Bush, Chenny et al.

    By the way Bloomberg, which is covering this story does not mention that the US is not a party to the agreement (propaganda anyone).

  31. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    I think Lynne is weak because I think she is strong woman. Ok? I’m sorry I don’t think that is a convincing argument.

    If it helps clarify things I think J Bro’s arguments are similarly weak. I think he might be a dude too.

    Wisdom, honesty and Truth have historically been portrayed in female form, embodied by goddesses….The truth is powerful but not in a Brutish way. The truth is beautiful for beautiful things. You, Lynne, employ dude type arguments of the worst Brute sort, Bro. Your arguments couldn’t be grosser.

  32. Lynne
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

    So what are you saying FF? That in addition to saying sexist things, you aren’t good at evaluating arguments? OK. I hear you.

  33. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

    Repeating the same lie is not an argument, Bro.

    I never said or thought that outspoken females are responsible for Trump’s win. That is a lie or a misrepresentation at best. I do think people don’t want to be associated with your kind of grossness so you drive people away from some things that could be positive. The grossness is not derived from some notion of you not knowing your place either. I don’t think like that. We are all equally in this together. However, your “arguments” give people the same feeling they might get from witnessing a fat, stinky, football watching man behave abusively toward his wife in children—just because he can exert physical strength over them. You abuse the Truth just like that kind of gross dude abuses his wife and children, Bro. Why do you do it? Answer: Because you think you can get away with it.

  34. Max
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    Mulvaney just said administration withheld funds to Ukraine in order to investigate democrats. Read all about it!

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/17/us/politics/donald-trump-impeachment-news.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

  35. EOS
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

    What a great diplomatic solution negotiated by Trump. What a difference it makes to have a skilled negotiator in office. Hope the ceasefire holds and future wars for regime change are avoided.

  36. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

    It is a positive step even if its significance is being overstated, perhaps intentionally. Anybody from the super smart, NYT reading, war profiting, mm.com parrot crowd disagree?

  37. John Brown
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    Aaron Rupar tweets:

    Referring to Kurds living along the Turkish border in Syria, Trump says of Turkey, “they had to have it cleaned out”

    So agent oranges USA is now endorsing ethnic cleansing. He and his supporters are some sick fucking puppies. They are outright dangerous and should be treated accordingly.

  38. Max
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    Again, fixing or trying to fix a problem he created. Great job! It’s a wonder his letter to Erdogan didn’t do the trick.

  39. iRobert
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

    I just met a really cool physics graduate student from Haiti. It was interesting to hear folks in Haiti do not like having the Clinton Foundation there. I’m curious to know where all the money is going. She said there is little or no indication that any of it is getting to people who need it.

  40. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    I’ve been talking about that for years, iRob. They funneled money slated for Haiti to ‘Friends of Bill’ in the form of contracts.

  41. Lynne
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    FF, you said that women like me caused Trump to win because I made some comment about Hillary Clinton figuratively kicking a certain sort of man in the balls. I guess a metaphor designed to show male weakness was just too much for you. You are offended by power in the hands of women, which I have deduced from things you have said btw and not because you ever said “I don’t like powerful women” I am not going to go searching for that conversation to prove it because I trust the casual observer to have noticed that you just pretty much call me a liar whenever you don’t have another argument. LOL. You regularly claim that I am lying about my opinions which I have to admit I find to be amusing.

  42. Jean Henry
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

    It cracks me up how leftists can’t handle it that Pelosi is a master fucking politician who runs the tables for them. They need her. They even need her as a foil and she’s ok with that.

    Extreme dogmatic true believers, left and right, really don’t understand the value of plurality. Because they can’t imagine they could ever be wrong of short sighted. Such is the nature of moral certainty.

    Armchair righteousness is ugly.

    Women have a lot of viewpoints. Let em all come forward. 53%. Most men have no idea how constant the dismissal is or how many ways women are discounted daily. Most men here don’t see themselves doing it.

    The few women here let it all stand for the record.

    It’s not that we are sure we’re right. You all get that wrong. It’s that a woman speaking her own damn mind without qualifiers SOUNDS righteous to you. We are supposed to equivocate at every turn to appease male ego. Most of you don’t even know you have that expectation. But if a woman doesn’t do that, it freaks you out a little. Go ahead and deny it, but there’s a pretty solid record in this blog alone at this point.

  43. Jean Henry
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

    Sorry about the typos, Bob.
    .
    .
    .
    Yeah, no. *not sorry

  44. Jean Henry
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

    11,000 Kurds died fighting ISIS in exchange for our alliance with them.

    There’s no strategy.

    His instability throws other country’s off. It’s scary for everyone but Russia it seems. That’s not strategy and it’s not ever going to produce a sustainable victory of any kind over anything.

    Watching his supporters scramble to legitimize his madness (it takes a nonsensical Kohn-spitting conspiracist bot!) is fascinating.

  45. Jean Henry
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:45 pm | Permalink

    “Nancy Pelosi needs help fast! There is either something wrong with her ‘upstairs,’ or she just plain doesn’t like our great Country. She had a total meltdown in the White House today. It was very sad to watch. Pray for her, she is a very sick person!”
    That is so close to lines HW has repeated about me… Interesting.

  46. Jean Henry
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

    We bombed our own anti-ISIS base in Syria.
    — ‘brilliant strategy’
    https://www.newsweek.com/republican-congressman-condemns-trump-over-reports-us-bombed-own-munitions-storage-bunker-syria-1465848

  47. Jean Henry
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    Elijah Cummings signed subpoenas on his death bed Re ICE and INS targeting for deportation immigrants who require life saving medical treatment unavailable in their home countries.

    It’s not just women who show moral courage. People are all made of the same cloth but some understand better the experience of marginalization and targeting. Any group with societal dominance becomes dense to other experience and obsessed with preserving status/power

  48. Sad
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

    Mayor Pete gets it.

    He’s going up in the Iowa polls.

  49. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

    Actually Lynne. You would not are able to go back to that conversation and prove anything because you can’t prove something that never happened. It is so stupid to say I think you saying “kick them in the nuts” is the reason Trump won. I never said that. I said in many different ways that you were expressing arguments in a way that is a huge turnoff to a lot of people that might otherwise be Dem. Another way to say it is that Trump does not exist without people like you existing. People like you are the reason Trump rose to power. People like you are the reason Trump is actually needed. I would love it if we could transcend Trump but it is just never going to happen if people like you don’t start thinking about the role they are playing in these very divisive times. Here are some snippets from that conversation where I was responding to some of your accusations that missed the mark back then too:

    “I don’t think Hillary should make false promises or concessions to the group Moore was addressing–which has a great number of non white, non male, non straight people in it. I do think some Hillary supporters should: stop alienating people within that group by simply misidentifying who they are because they are not all male and white. It is inaccurate. It makes no sense strategically. It is just a form of emotional venting. It is counterproductive.”

    “I think it is simple enough to understand that a woman does not liked to be called a man. A gay person does not like to be called straight. A black person does not like to be called white. None of this matters of course if no women, gay people, or black people vote for Trump anyway. But, as I have said I think the left, especially the sheltered left, have a false-sense of security in that regard….As Jean said “We will see”. No sense in arguing about it because I am going off of anecdotal evidence….
    That is just the first layer. The second layer is the abusive language from the left which talks about kicking people in the balls. Is it metaphorical kicking or metaphorical balls? Sorry Jean, I was attributing that to you, but I just double-checked and it was Lynne said it. It is just a recent example of crazy stuff people on the left says, in my opinion. Trump supporters say a lot of crazy stuff too but I think we can do better.”

    “I think the thing that you are missing is, in the context of this discussion, I am not worried about white men getting disrespected and I am not standing up for them or calling for people to be nicer to them. Not once have I done that. I am saying that you are insulting women, people of color, and gay people when you assume that everyone who feels like there is a correlation between The Clintons and NAFTA must be a white male. I am not worried about how the white male feels, in this discussion–forget about them for a minute. It was a huge huge group of people that *felt* wounded by the Clintons/Nafta. That class of people is not all white male. That class of people have a theory about the cause of that wound. I don’t know what polls Moore is looking at, maybe he is running on anecdotal evidence, which quite frankly might still be somewhat reliable if we consider Flint to be a model of a town that was effected by manufacturing going across borders, but he seems to be concerned. His concern is not a concern for anybodies feelings!!!! He is concerned with winning.
    Again, you talk like someone who is either poor at strategy or who has not much to lose…”

    “Sorry Lynne,
    This will piss you off even more, but I am not objecting to your tone as much as your inaccuracy.”

    “What I meant was that you are confident that Hillary would win. Like I said before, it is like you are already making your victory lap with your middle finger in the air. I found your confidence annoying, but more so dangerous right before the elections, because people are still making up their minds. Your confidence, I think, is making you sloppy…Sloppy arguments tinged with overgeneralized ill will toward large swaths of people. You are not being convincing.”

    “I think most of the rest of the world is turned off by the presentation of your ideas, and rightfully so, because there is often no balance between your idealism propped up by an over-reliance of theories and fueled by a shit-ton of convenient assumptions. It’s the inaccuracy we dislike.”

    “Demetrius was right to point out that you often resort to a form of bullying. I guess we could more accurately call it sophistry. Not a big deal if there is only one or two of you but I believe your forms of reasoning and style of discourse are fairly representative of forms employed by the extreme left, which is so lacking, that it will, in my opinion prove to push many people to vote for Trump and against, not Hillary, but against people like you.
    In my opinion, you create all sorts of madness on the periphery of those arguments. Often your core argument gets lost in defensive maneuvers. In your mind, or so it seems, any criticism against your argument is the result of your opponents warped worldview, which is a result of their social status, class, gender and race. (You can save the response to this last sentence as everybody knows the ways our worldviews are influenced.) The problem is, our social position, although a piece of the puzzle, does not explain the whole story of who we are and where our arguments are coming from. Although it should be kept in mind, in my opinion, a person’s social position, should not be used as an ultimate tool for identifying the “reason” that there is an objection to your (Lynne’s) arguments in the first place. You give a hell of a lot “reasons” for why people are disagreeing with you. Isn’t that odd when pointed out? Do you not see how neat and tidy of a defensive maneuver that is? It becomes hilarious (not in a Jon Stewart way) when we realize that you ** are often guilty of just assuming your opponent particular social position** whenever, and wherever it helps your argument.”

  50. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

    I also find it hilarious that within that same conversation, which happened 3 years ago, you also wrongly accused Bob of using the sexist phrase Shrillery when he actually was saying Shillary.

    Man! You are a broken record and you have no memory. But who needs a memory when you can just repeat the same lies over and over and over. Right?

  51. Jean Henry
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 10:59 pm | Permalink

    So many words, FF…

    more genius strategy (aka gifts to Russia) from your guy: “President Donald Trump has signed a document expressing an intent to withdraw from what must be the least controversial arms-control treaty on the books without consulting the military, the State Department, or the intelligence community—all of which oppose him on this issue.”
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/10/open-skies-trump-bolton-morrison.html

  52. stupid hick
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

    “Actually Lynne, blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah, tldr.”

    Buddy! Do you know how weak this makes you sound?! That is all I have to say. That, and this blog still sucks. And, finally, anyone who has any faith left in Trump is a moron. Maybe I’ll check back in on y’all next month. Carry on, you hopeless, stupid, hicks.

  53. Lynne
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 11:33 pm | Permalink

    Maybe this will give you boys some insight?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/the-men-asking-for-our-vote-and-the-dudes-they-remind-us-of/2019/10/16/062bec3a-f012-11e9-8693-f487e46784aa_story.html?fbclid=IwAR0oF0GR27gw7yaGS9H5ccWh9gyib6_5cieps1flqVc8-nB-IfMgB99bPW4

  54. John Brown
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 7:25 am | Permalink

    How about those badass Kurd women fighters taking on ISIS? I sure hope they survive this fiasco to fight another day, or better yet live in peace someday. If any of our local women are inclined to gain some skills to defend themselves from Christo-Fascist secular violence in the event agent orange succeeds in instigating #civilwar2 check out the following link for a new women only shooting club.

    https://thewellarmedwoman.com/twaw-in-the-news/new-shooting-club-for-women-in-southeastern-michigan/

  55. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    SH,

    It is weak to defend myself from Lynne’s misrepresentations and baseless accusations? Lynne tried to wrap up a lie within a lie and then tried to pass it off as truth.

  56. Sad
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 8:05 am | Permalink

    Poor FF.

    Picked on and abused. Just like a Trump.

    Can’t a guy catch a break?

    Seems people like Mayor Pete’s new butchiness.

  57. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 8:29 am | Permalink

    I am not a victim. Lynne tries to abuse the truth because she thinks it gives her an advantage and because she thinks she can get away with it. Lynne practices the tactics of macho-discurso.

  58. Sad
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 8:34 am | Permalink

    Another Trumpian tactic.

    Accusing others of what you do.

    Pathetic.

  59. maryd
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 8:57 am | Permalink

    All this mansplainin…As if you know. Lets cry and whine about Hillary again and again. 2016 was the worst ever… Move on…And meanwhile crazy EOS defends the little man in the white house’s Syria strategy. What a wackadoodle.

  60. Lynne
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    So FF thinks I talk like a man? So what if I sometimes do? Personally, I think it is long past time when things like confidence in speaking is considered a male trait.

  61. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    Lynne, speaking with confidence is not the issue, has never been the issue. You like to pretend it is the issue despite explicitly having it pointed out that it is not the issue. You are like the sloppy, fat, man, who watches football, farts, burps and beats his wife when his team loses because he thinks he can get away with it.

    It’s a metaphor.

    You use sloppy, stinky arguments in an attempt to abuse the truth because you think you can get away with. You can’t get away with it because the Truth keeps kicking you in the balls. Get it?

    I don’t think you talk like a man. I think you talk like a cowardly and abusive PERSON. My hope is that I can use some metaphors that play on your prejudices so that you can shame yourself into making a positive change to your mode of being because your macho-discurso is very bad for the world.

    I encourage you to Speak the truth on a street corner with a megaphone if you want. You really need to stop lying to yourself though. Get it?

  62. Lynne
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    FF, I think you should join my Matreon

    https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/matreon-the-patreon-platform-for-emotional-labor?fbclid=IwAR078-Er7SukfDIRKDyibnFovyw_6M7EjIj52vzV8A1IkxMkuQt60ntp1Kw

  63. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 10:19 am | Permalink

    But Lynne, all you have to do is rewind the tape. You are the one initiated the conversation when you told a lie about me. You kept the conversation going by telling more lies. You are now trying to exit the conversation by telling more lies.

    I’m sorry if being called out on all the lying you do creates emotional labor for you.

  64. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    This shit is so ill.

  65. Lynne
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    Yes yes, FF. You like to accuse me of lying about my own opinions which is hilarious. But I promise, I really do think you are a sexist moron!

  66. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    Poor Lynne. All she ever wanted to do was be a big, fat, stinky, farting, football fan who beats her spouse and children when her team loses. Sadly though, sexism got in the way of her realizing her dreams with a clear conscience.

    Bro! Fuck this emotional labor, Bro!

  67. Lynne
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 11:20 am | Permalink

    Why do you think I would want to be like you, FF? Such hubris!

  68. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    I really don’t think you believe any of that Lynne. The sick side of you wants to use those kinds of accusations in order to carve out a “safe space” for yourself so you can you abuse the truth safely— without anybody questioning you.

    You have a strong authoritarian impulse which has traditionally been associated with the worst sort of men. You are proud of it. You think it is female confidence. LOL.
    Yikes!

  69. Lynne
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 11:37 am | Permalink

    Obviously, I don’t share that opinion but you are, of course, entitled to your opinions even if they completely support my opinion that you are a sexist moron.

  70. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    Where is the evidence for your opinion though? You claimed that evidence existed in the Michael Moore conversation that demonstrated I loathe confident and powerful women. That evidence does not exist. Is there some other evidence you want to point to? In this conversation you literally said I “say sexist things”. Ok. What sexist thing have I said? Where is your evidence?

  71. Lynne
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    It is all over this blog, FF, for anyone to see. Just read back in THIS thread. I understand, btw, that you can’t see it but it is there for all to see if they so desire. I imagine most people don’t care and have formed their own opinions of you based on what you write here since that is all we have to work with.

    Getting back to the original topic. I loved this article in the Washington Post. That picture really does have serious artistic qualities.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/that-photograph-of-pelosi-and-trump-is-a-work-of-art-some-say-its-a-masterpiece/2019/10/17/9e536b5e-f0e0-11e9-89eb-ec56cd414732_story.html?fbclid=IwAR1ce8KNtG0Aafj5tFGjI0uOB-PDdSXtpxfCH7b8AmNYJCrfpM7AP7ecLHc

  72. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 11:52 am | Permalink

    This comment I made 3 years ago still holds true. It is sad. Don’t you want to grow as a person? 3 years have past and you are still guilty of the same nonsense. It would be tragic if you continued down this path until the day you die:

    ”In your mind, or so it seems, any criticism against your argument is the result of your opponents warped worldview, which is a result of their social status, class, gender and race. (You can save the response to this last sentence as everybody knows the ways our worldviews are influenced.) The problem is, our social position, although a piece of the puzzle, does not explain the whole story of who we are and where our arguments are coming from. Although it should be kept in mind, in my opinion, a person’s social position, should not be used as an ultimate tool for identifying the “reason” that there is an objection to your (Lynne’s) arguments in the first place. You give a hell of a lot “reasons” for why people are disagreeing with you. Isn’t that odd when pointed out? Do you not see how neat and tidy of a defensive maneuver that is? It becomes hilarious (not in a Jon Stewart way) when we realize that you ** are often guilty of just assuming your opponent particular social position** whenever, and wherever it helps your argument.”

  73. John Brown
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

    Dolt, calling the Dolt,

    Hillary, the first woman to win the popular vote for President, just said multiple high level American politicians are being leveraged by Ruskies, including Tulsi. But she’s probably just high from eating baby stem cells in a non-existent basement.

  74. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    Maybe there are other reasons we can’t think of that like explain why Hillary would say it, J Bro? I don’t know. She is either a) telling the truth or b) she is high on drugs that don’t exist. I think those are like the only two options, J Bro. Good work! To be clear: I’m going to assume she is telling the truth because like how could she be high on a drug that totally doesn’t exist, J Bro.

    #mutual
    #excuse-ivity

  75. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

    Aloha JB, Hillary is still trying to scape goat anyone for her total failure to win the election. It is tried and true McCarthite tactics. I’m seriously rethinking my any Democratic nominee pledge. You people have gone completely bonkers with the Russian menace. I recommend you look under your bed tonight.

    Where are the 20 Republican Senators for removing Trump from office? Strong Woman Nancy has repeatedly said that the only article of impeachment they are going forward with is on Ukraine. Where are the votes in the Senate? They are going for impeachment because they don’t want a debate on policy, only personality. Stomping on the anti-war folks is a sure way to get them to vote for your candidate. Worked in 2016 didn’t it.

  76. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

    Don’t listen to Dolt J Bro. He can’t comprehend. Let me spell it out for the Dolts:

    Hillary is either on drugs that don’t exist or Tulsi is a Russian agent. Hillary can’t be on a drug that doesn’t exist therefore Tulsi is a Russia agent.

    J Bro’s logic is on some King James shit!

  77. John Brown
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

    ruskies manipulating the naive “stop the endless wars” folks seems to be working well for pooty.

    Its super hilarious now to see these trumpees in their red, white and blue flaming Eagle t-shirts outside a Nuremberg rally reciting it too now! But I wouldn’t expect the crew that believes the batshit Comet Pizza, or Crowdstrike shit to able to distinguish between stopping and endless war and greenlighting Kurdish ethnic cleansing.

    Nothing under my bed. But you should get a few rubles for working the “dont be paranoid” psychological ploy on me anyways, amirite?

  78. John Brown
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    Also Tulsi’s social media has here training with some tough woman ultimate fighting champ. Is that an appealing trait in a Presidential candidate to you? I bet its appealing to alt-right and the #civilwar2 crowd though. I’m sure its appealing to pooty…

  79. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    Aloha JB, I don’t have the time or energy to present my argument. Here though is some thoughtful honest analysis that pretty much says anything I would.

    https://www.truthdig.com/articles/democrats-have-no-answer-for-trumps-anti-war-posture/

    I wonder where we are going to get those 20 Republican Senators?

  80. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    I don’t know anything about pizzagate. What do I believe about Crowdstrike? You keep mentioning there is a conspiracy theory about Crowdstrike and that I believe it. Tell me what I believe, please? It sounds like you know a lot about it. I have read many articles saying people espouse a conspiracy theory. Don’t show me those articles. Show me the articles where people are articulating the crowdstrike conspiracy theory so I can inform myself on what you say I believe.

  81. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

    Aloha JB, You seem interested in Syria. Facts do matter. We armed under Obama the very troops that Turkey is using in the attack on the Kurds.

    Aloha JH, You were asking about Max Blumenthal, this is his latest article. Yes he is Sydney’s son.

    https://thegrayzone.com/2019/10/16/us-backed-crazy-militias-turkeys-invasion-syria/?fbclid=IwAR1ZsXGeSzr6bcjjC-ZYc9QV7tjMpGkop-Yo3vrCoP850BtTOsLQ3US3ihU

  82. Jean Henry
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    FF- Does Presdent Trump lie? Just curious as to your position on this.

  83. Jean Henry
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    DD– I have been open about my disdain for arming rebel groups in Syria here in the past, especially when we didn’t provide adequate air or other support. Just because I believe the US has a role to play in foreign policy doesn’t mean I support everything we do. Arming rebels in the Middle East is a bad idea given the state of things. I trusted the Kurds with our weapons. We blew that one too now.

  84. Jean Henry
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

    FF– you seem to be the one insisting on having a ‘safe space’ for your ideas to be supported without counter. Why else would you consistently dismiss other viewpoints as lies? If Lynne wanted a safe space to speak her mind, she would not be here. Duh.

  85. Jean Henry
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    “Hillary, the first woman to win the popular vote for President, just said multiple high level American politicians are being leveraged by Ruskies, including Tulsi.”

    Did she really say ‘leveraged.’ JB?

    Interesting language. One thing is clear enough, Putin is the big winner of all Trump’s foreign policy moves.

    Between this and tariffs, I wonder if these most egregious of left wing talking points will finally drop out of debate. Maybe the Dems can move past isolationist rhetoric finally. DD and others can join a new isolationist/populist party along with HW and EOS– and fulfill the ultimate vision of Steve Bannon.

    I can only hope the left stops opposing new housing development and upzoning in urban cores soon too. AOC turned on that one.

  86. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, Tulsi calls for Hillary to stop using proxies and to join the race.

    Great! Thank you, Hillary Clinton. You, the queen of warmongers, embodiment of corruption, and personification of the rot that has sickened the Democratic Party for so long, have finally come out from behind the curtain.

    “From the day I announced my candidacy, there has been a concerted campaign to destroy my reputation. We wondered who was behind it and why. Now we know — it was always you, through your proxies and powerful allies in the corporate media and war machine, afraid of the threat I pose.

    It’s now clear that this primary is between you and me. Don’t cowardly hide behind your proxies. Join the race directly.”

  87. John Brown
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    JH, that was the description of the Podcast, but I didn’t listen to it. I don’t think it’s a terrible descriptor for a useful stooge in a manipulation scheme.

  88. Jean Henry
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

    All I can find is Tulsi and Stein milking it for all it’s worth. Oh HRC. Sometimes you really step in it. I guess they are minimal threat to anything really. Just annoying. More for the populist party.

    Tulsi is a ridiculous person. Marianne Williamson too. They each have moments of decency and then… yikes they expose their true natures.

    Hey DD– why do you think AOC went with Bernie instead of Tulsi?

  89. Lynne
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    I have found that since 2016, I have come to like HRC more than ever. I am glad she is not running though. That is part of why I admire her. She recognizes that she was a polarizing figure in 2016 and that running would cause more harm than good. Anyways, it is funny that people are STILL directing their hatred and anger at her. It really doesn’t matter as she is not running. I need to get her latest book!

  90. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

    Aloha JH, Because AOC is a Democratic Socialist. So is Bernie. Tulsi is not. Not hard to understand. Tulsi has repeatedly stated she is in the race at least to the convention. She has repeatedly stated that she has no interest in running 3rd party (she was the Vice Chair of the Party 4 years ago). From what I can tell though, the Democrats are committed to purging the anti-war elements from the party. Just was reading how “McCarthy was right” written by some Democrat–of course that was how the Democrat purged the progressives from the party in the late 40’s using “who lost China” as the purge weapon.
    I sure hope impeachment works and at least weakens Trump, but so far I don’t see it happening.
    Strong Woman Nancy just put it into the Republicans court stating, “Yesterday, @realDonaldTrump’s top staffer joined Trump, his lawyer, and his diplomats in confessing that the Trump Admin used taxpayer-funded military aid to pressure Ukraine into interfering in the 2020 election. There’s a simple question facing Republicans now. #TruthExposed”

    Which Republican Senators should we be calling, any idea?

  91. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, I am such a dolt. It just occurred to me that of course the war mongering corporate Democrats want Tulsi to mount a third party effort. Most 3rd. party efforts hurt incumbents, and as everyone keeps saying, she has an appeal to libertarian, anti-imperialist and military folks–many of whom support Trump.

  92. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

    Whoo, damn. Smacked her right in the face.

    Tulsi Gabbard

    Verified account

    @TulsiGabbard

    Great! Thank you @HillaryClinton. You, the queen of warmongers, embodiment of corruption, and personification of the rot that has sickened the Democratic Party for so long, have finally come out from behind the curtain. From the day I announced my candidacy, there has been a …

    .. concerted campaign to destroy my reputation. We wondered who was behind it and why. Now we know — it was always you, through your proxies and …

    … powerful allies in the corporate media and war machine, afraid of the threat I pose.

    It’s now clear that this primary is between you and me. Don’t cowardly hide behind your proxies. Join the race directly.

  93. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

    Jean,

    Trump speaks in half truths/ lies and is highly manipulative. He is the perfect person to be our president at this time because he provides a counter balance to all the liars and fake news sources in the world. He fights back! My hope is that we can transcend Trump someday. We need someone capable of unifying. We can only do it if the fools clean up their acts. The Lynnes and the J Bro’s of the world are so not ready to make that step.

  94. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

    Jean,

    My ideas are plenty safe from these weak attacks. Saying somebody said something they did not say is not merely a “different viewpoint” or “alternate opinion” as Lynne is suggesting. It is a misrepresentation. A pattern of intentional misrepresentation amounts to a person being a liar.

    Calling a lie a lie is a good in itself.

    The truth is a good all by itself.

    It is weird that you can’t think of any reasons why someone would shine a light on falsity other than it serving some self interest they have. Think about how weird it is to suggest such a thing. It’s kind of creepy.

  95. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

    Is Hillary an honest person? It sounds like she insinuated Tulsi, a current major in the military and a congresswoman , is a Russian agent. That is a pretty big fucking deal. Just wondering what your position is on Hillary.

  96. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

    Tulsi Gabbard

    Verified account

    @TulsiGabbard

    Great! Thank you @HillaryClinton. You, the queen of warmongers, embodiment of corruption, and personification of the rot that has sickened the Democratic Party for so long, have finally come out from behind the curtain. From the day I announced my candidacy, there has been a …

    … concerted campaign to destroy my reputation. We wondered who was behind it and why. Now we know — it was always you, through your proxies and …

    … powerful allies in the corporate media and war machine, afraid of the threat I pose.

    It’s now clear that this primary is between you and me. Don’t cowardly hide behind your proxies. Join the race directly.

  97. Lynne
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    HRC was pointing out that the Russians have taken an interest in Gabbard, not that Gabbard was necessarily encouraging such interest. Gabbard’s little twitter meltdown will resonate with those who hate Clinton and everyone else will think she is bat shit crazy. It probably will not change her chances as I suspect that she does not have many Clinton fans among her supporters.

  98. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 8:05 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, The stupidity of attempting to smear Tulsi with Russia just demonstrates the vacuousness of the establishment Democratic Party. This gentleman can speak to issue better than me,

    Ron Wiseman, Corporate executive, board member, in US manufacturing
    Updated Aug 8

    Consider that Tulsi Gabbard sits on the Emerging Threats and Capabilities Subcommittee of the U.S. Armed Services Committee. That means she holds a Top Secret government clearance with Special Access. To get that level of clearance, she had to be thoroughly investigated by the Defense Intelligence Agency, which looks deeply into any and all associations with foreign actors. That clearance has to be updated every five years.

    As a former employee of the CIA, I believe that Tulsi Gabbard is the ONLY candidate who has been thoroughly vetted and cleared of any association with a foreign actor, whether Russian, Syrian, Saudi, or any other.

    This speaks more about Harris’s vacuous credibility, and her willingness to spread fake news to achieve her ambitions. Harris is a poser. Her record doesn’t align with her statements, so anything she says should be suspect. Tulsi, on the other hand, is the real deal.
    16.5k views · View Upvoters · View Sharers · Answer requested by Chris Nicholes

  99. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 8:19 pm | Permalink

    Fact: She said Tulsi (or some other candidate) is a “Russia asset” who is being “supported” by Russia and “groomed” by Russia to be a third party candidate.

    Fiction: Hillary said Russia is merely “interested” in Tulsi.

    4 out of 5 Pinocchios for Cassandra.

    >>>>x

  100. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

    Tulsi did not have “a little twitter meltdown “. Tulsi dropped a truth bomb/ smack down on a powerful sociopathic scumbag.

    Good for Tulsi.

  101. Lynne
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

    HRC said, “I’m not making any predictions, but I think they’ve got their eye on somebody who is currently in the Democratic primary and are grooming her to be the third-party candidate. She’s the favorite of the Russians.”

    Nowhere in that statement did HRC accuse Gabbard of working with the Russians intentionally. When the press asked for more clarification, Clinton’s teams gave some examples, none of which alleged that Gabbard was intentionally working with the Russians but rather that she gets mentioned a lot on RT and there seems to be some Russian twitter bots boosting her signal. I get it that FF has a different opinion but he is a moron so who cares?

    I am sure I am in a bubble but most of what I have heard in response to the twitter meltdown is that Gabbard is batshit crazy. In one group there is a lively discussion about who is more nuts, Gabbard or Williamson. LOL. But like I said, that same nutty rhetoric will resonate with Hillary haters like FF and it clearly does. Thank goodness though that there are not enough people like FF to give her a chance of getting the nomination.

    The third-party thing is interesting. I will say that my gut feeling is that Gabbard will not run as a third-party candidate regardless of Russia’s influence. She has said that she won’t and I believe her although I will admit that after this twitter outburst, I am less sure. She seemed to really be losing it!

  102. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 9:43 pm | Permalink

    You are not using the full quote. She said the unnamed candidate (Tulsi) and Jill Stein are “Russian assets” she used the term “Russian asset” twice. She said Russian’s are “supporting” her and Russian’s are “grooming” her. Does that mean they are combing her brown hair and buying her shampoo? Does the term “Russian asset” suddenly mean the Russians merely are “interested” in her as you claimed? Of course not. It is a ridiculous mischaracterization of what the term “Russia asset” means. It is a mischaracterization of what Hillary said.

    You never learn Lynne.

  103. Lynne
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 10:01 pm | Permalink

    Someone can be an asset to a foreign nation without intending to be. Any third-party candidate on the left would be which is why she lumped in Stein. If she thought or had evidence of Gabbard colluding with the Russians, I imagine she would be calling for a legal inquiry since that would be illegal. But ok. if you must, do not vote for HRC in 2020. That is part of what is nuts about Gabbard’s tweets. She is accusing Clinton of running by proxy?! Huh? That doesn’t even make sense.

  104. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

    Yeah Lynne when you are being “groomed” to be a “Russian asset” it is commonly understood to mean that Russia is “interested” in you. Let’s pretend like Hillary did not use the term “Russian Asset” and then when you realize she said that let’s pretend like the term means something it doesn’t. Good plan.

  105. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 18, 2019 at 10:14 pm | Permalink

    It’s because I loathe smart, outspoken, confident woman.

  106. Jean Henry
    Posted October 19, 2019 at 1:36 am | Permalink

    Or. Maybe just ’creepy’ ones, FF.

    ”It is weird that you can’t think of any reasons why someone would shine a light on falsity other than it serving some self interest they have. Think about how weird it is to suggest such a thing. It’s kind of creepy.” — did I say that?

    I just asked you if you think Trump lies.

    Your answer was that somehow his lies counterbalance other lies and right things.

    That’s some strange logic.

  107. Jean Henry
    Posted October 19, 2019 at 1:44 am | Permalink

    Hmm… I guess i kind of did, though that’s an extreme interpretation. I just think calling someone a liar is a weak counter. Why don’t you just lie in return? I hear that’s solid strategy.

    It is interesting that you find Lynne’s and my opinions to be highly offensive lies because we don’t see the implications of what you say the way you do, but Trump’s lies which are not interpretive but purely counterfactual are no big deal.

    Your double standard is showing again.

  108. Sad
    Posted October 19, 2019 at 7:06 am | Permalink

    Queen of Warmongers – does a Congresswoman Gabbard think this is game of thorns?

    Mayor Pete is so normal. Plain.

  109. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 19, 2019 at 7:17 am | Permalink

    Jean,

    She said I “say sexist things”. It is not a difference of opinion. It is a lie. Of course she might be able to prove she is not liar by providing evidence but she will not because she can’t.

    It is not a difference op opinion. How is that so hard to understand?

  110. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 19, 2019 at 7:21 am | Permalink

    Jean,

    She said I “say sexist things”. It is not a difference of opinion. It is a lie. Of course she might be able to prove she is not liar by providing evidence but she will not because she can’t. She says that sort of crap all the time and she is able to back it up.

    It is not a difference of opinion. Lynne lies. How is that so hard to understand?

  111. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 19, 2019 at 7:27 am | Permalink

    Sad,

    Maybe it is in the direction of GOT? I didn’t think it was crazy at all that Tulsi said Hillary stop using proxies (the media and her allies). Hillary is an extremely powerful people in the world.

    The part at the end where Tulsi said it is clear that it is between “you and me in the primaries” was very much over the top though. Oh well. I think it is great she smacked Hillary across the face.

  112. John Brown
    Posted October 19, 2019 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    And with that comment Fashy flake confirms at least one segment of Tulsi’s target audience. With graphic misogynistic violence language as the cherry on top!

  113. Sad
    Posted October 19, 2019 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    FF with that comment lost the tiny little bit of credibility it had.

    Disgusting.

    Mayor Pete just keeps looking better all the time.

  114. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 19, 2019 at 9:26 am | Permalink

    You found it offensive that I said it was great that Tulsi (metaphorically) slapped Hillary across the face? Interesting.

    You support what Hillary said though? If Hillary does not have evidence to back up what she said; If Hillary is smearing Tulsi with lies for her own benefit; Then that would mean John Brown supports a white powerful woman using her power, a form of real violence, against a much poorer woman of color whose biggest crime is being against wars that kill innocent people while simultaneously creating insane wealth for a group of people mostly made up of rich white dudes.

    You are a total fraud J Bro.

  115. Lynne
    Posted October 19, 2019 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    Oh! I get it now. FF thinks that opinions he disagrees woth are lies!

    There is evidencd that the Russians like Gabbard. There are obvious twitter bots and also she gets mentioned a lot on RT. Gabbard has no control over that but her disinterest in getting to the bottom of Rudsian influence that benefits her and instead putting her energy towards attacking someone beloved by many of tbe people Gabbard want to vote for her shows she doesnt have the best judgement.

  116. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 19, 2019 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

    No Lynne. Lies are lies. Disagreement is disagreement. Different interpretations are different interpretations. I specifically labeled your claim that I “say sexist things” as one of your lies. I also said you can prove that you are not a lying by pointing to the sexist things I say. You don’t point to sexist things I say because you can’t. I am challenging you to provide evidence for your truth claim. You are failing to rise to the challenge.

    If you read what I wrote you will notice I did not accuse Hillary of lying. I used the word “if”. I said: “If Hillary is smearing Tulsi with lies; then….”

    What does the word “if” mean to you?

    I do think, given the context, you have a ridiculous interpretation of Hillary’s use of the term“Russian asset”. You first tried to offer a quote which excluded the term “Russian asset”which would be a deceitful act if you did it intentionally. I am not sure if it was intentional or not…It is entirely possible you just read the incomplete quote on whatever social media feed you subscribe to that is likely intentionally trying to deceive you…

    FF and Lynne are in fact in *disagreement* over how we ought to interpret Hillary’s words. Yes— Lynne thinks Hillary was saying it ought to be interpreted as Russia is “interested” in Tulsi. Yes—FF thinks that Lynne’s interpretation of Hillary words “Russian asset”, “groomed” and “supported” is an example of one of those times when Lynne is being hilariously moronic.

  117. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 19, 2019 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    Tulsi Gabbard will beat your ass.

    https://twitter.com/dcexaminer/status/1185260251991478284

  118. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 19, 2019 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

    Or maybe show you the way to Hare Krishna through her guru. From 2015 (recent!):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-GLgGw6ujU

  119. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 19, 2019 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, Here are some folks trying to understand why a majority (?) of white woman voted for Trump.

    https://phys.org/news/2019-10-white-women-vote-parties.html?fbclid=IwAR3o2hquAjpGnkiGKv6wXHIMj4uMNLVutEpw1CPA_yDRi0AfYkjJEFJsiPY

  120. Jean Henry
    Posted October 19, 2019 at 9:34 pm | Permalink

    FF — i truly feel sorry for anyone who has to deal with your nonsense IRL.

  121. Jean Henry
    Posted October 19, 2019 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

    PS FF you DO say sexist things. You definitely have displayed sexist double standards here regularly and i have pointed them out.

    Do you think a person who says racist things always knows hes expressing racism?? If a racist says you are lying about his racism, do you suggest the criticism is invalid?

  122. Lynne
    Posted October 19, 2019 at 11:54 pm | Permalink

    FF, men often think that women have an obligation to show them how they are being sexist. It is a position of privilege and entitlement and is itself a sexist attitude to take. Guess what, bro? I am not required to do this emotional labor for you. You want to know why more than one woman here thinks you say sexist things? Educate yourself!!! There are many good sites on web. Do some reading. I’ll bet Coursea has some Woman’s studies classes.

  123. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 20, 2019 at 8:34 am | Permalink

    Aloha, Aaron got “Russiagate” right because he actually reads the entire statement people make, does not automatically believe anonymous sources, and does not fall for headline propaganda. He is probably right about Ukraine as well.

    https://www.thenation.com/article/ukrainegate-biden-trump/

  124. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 20, 2019 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think you have an obligation to provide evidence for your truth claims Lynne. How can I oblige you to provide evidence that “I say sexist things” when no evidence exists? Likewise how is Lynne obliged to give evidence that she is not guilty of misrepresenting people when no such evidence exists.

    Are you sure it is emotional labor Lynne? Maybe you are growing weak and weary resisting the soft-spoken advice from your own conscience?

  125. Lynne
    Posted October 20, 2019 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

    FF. I have not asked you to provide evidence that things you say sound sexist. I have stated that evidence is clearly out in the open in this thread for all to see. I do not feel entitled to demand you prove your innocence or whatever. I haven’t demanded that you prove me the liar you keep namecalling me. I am confident that anyone here can read my posts to form their own opinion and I am confident that those who matter will not share your opinion of me.

    What is emotional labor educating you about why people find what you say to be sexist. That is what you are demanding as the proof. Like many people of privilege, you think you are entitled to things you are not entitled to such as having marhinalized people educate you. YOU need to educate yourself. You have the obligation to work on your own racism and sexism or face the consequences of making sexist and/or racist comments.

  126. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 20, 2019 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    Lynne seems like the type of person, in the 16th century, who would have supported witch trial “swimming tests ”. Maybe that is too generous. There were some progressive safeguards in those swim tests at least, because they would often tie a rope around the waists of drowning non-witches so that they could save their lives occasionally. No, Lynne’s logic, unfortunately, seems more like the lyncher type:

    “Of course that negro deserves to be hung from that their tree. We don’t need no more evidence other than the fact that he is denying he did anything wrong. He must be too evil to know that raping a white woman is wrong. What more evidence do we need to hang this negro?”—Lynnie Lou Lou, Lynchburg, La. circa 1847

    Lynne used to just exercise bigot logic. She has now down-graded into Lyncher logic. You are getting worse Lynne. Hold tightly onto that rope. It is not a hangman’s rope. We provided that rope so that we can save you from drowning when you sink to the bottom of the lake.

    You are at the bottom of the lake now, Lynne. Hold tight to the rope. We want to pull you up but we need your help.

  127. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 20, 2019 at 11:11 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, I don’t know if woman are in general less corruptible than men. Tulsi supports the proposition, demonstrating courage in the face of corruption. Pelsoie, maybe not so much

    https://www.truthdig.com/articles/why-i-cant-get-excited-about-impeaching-trump/

  128. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 21, 2019 at 9:20 am | Permalink

    Aloha,

    https://twitter.com/world_hillary/status/1185845820849115137?s=09&fbclid=IwAR3B5DMqZwgGE3OmlttUMIM_1AHkf2zhQs8E150lXw8UhrOMX0puKMJVM68

  129. Lynne
    Posted October 21, 2019 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    FF, that is interesting. So what you are saying is that having a woman express an unfavorable opinion of a white man on the internet feels the same to you as the lynching of black men? That is fucked up, bro.

    DD, Pelosi is honest. And she is the best person for the job as speaker. I wish she were running for president!

  130. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 22, 2019 at 11:37 am | Permalink

    It would be very interesting if I was saying what Lynne says I am saying! Unfortunately for Lynne, what I am saying is interesting for different reasons:I am saying Lynne tries to employ the same “logical” maneuvers that were, not too long ago, used as the flimsy evidentiary basis of illegal and immoral lynchings of powerless people. The flimsy evidentiary basis did not matter because there was such a huge difference in power between the lyncher and the lynched.

    Lynne does not have the power of a lyncher but she does use the logic of a lyncher. Contrary to what Lynne said, I don’t feel bad about my interactions with Lynne at all. I actually feel grateful toward Lynne because she has that unique lack of self awareness which allows her to shamelessly demonstrate, in an obvious way, a type of logic which, if not called out can be harmful toward our understanding of the truth, as well as harmful toward our ability to live together peacefully and equally.

    If Lynne wants to understand the analogies she needs to understand that neither I nor my feelings are in the analogies. Both the swim test analogy and the lynching analogy revolve around “the ropes” which in both cases represent a final Truth. In both analogies Lynne is both the victimizer and the victim. Lynne has a choice to make and whether or not she makes the right choice depends on her relationship to the rope. Lynne is either going to hold onto the rope so that it can be used to pull her up from the bottom of the lake-abyss to save her life; Or, Lynne will continue to, over and over and over again, hang herself with her own bad logic, which reveals her chronic fails to have any respect for the Truth, whatsoever.

  131. Sad
    Posted October 22, 2019 at 11:45 am | Permalink

    FF you really have zero self awareness do you?

    # wordssomany

  132. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 22, 2019 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    Sorry Sad. But I feel proud of my last comment. I hope people find it helpful.

  133. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 22, 2019 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, Young woman say no to gradualism and moderation. If they listened to the good liberals their great granddaughters can have equal pay. 50 years ago I remember wearing a pin that indicated woman were making .67 cents on the dollar for every dollar a man made. Thanks to liberalism my daughters generation will make .79 cents on the dollar. In two or three more generations they might have some economic equality.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/vermont-high-school-girls-soccer-team-gets-carded-for-removing-jerseys-to-reveal-equalpay-shirts/?fbclid=IwAR2xF4iwzeKE6Xq3m_hGOgMkxx5LqlOSKhyqlT7WkJ4J068ZOFTZXc9MWYA

  134. Jean Henry
    Posted October 22, 2019 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

    DD wears a pin and thinks that makes him a feminist.

    FF goes on and on and imagines it’s useful to anyone but himself.

    Trump just compared his impeachment to a lynching.

    And so it goes…

  135. Jean Henry
    Posted October 22, 2019 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

    I did learn that FF also does not trust logic, so that’s handy.

    Before you object, FF, I meant my point in EXACTLY the context you have applied it. I don’t FWIW think it’s applicable to Lynne by and large. She is often right. She does not admit that one function of being part of a targeted population is a fair degree of paranoia (not about the overall experience of bias but about individual instances that are may feel like bias and even mimic it without being it) which is just odd to me, because literally every marginalized group talks about this kind of anxiety and double consciousness in detail, makes movies about it, etc etc.

    Still, your point is not applicable to you and your sexist double standards etc, which have been well demonstrated here. You just deny it obsessively.

  136. Jean Henry
    Posted October 22, 2019 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

    PS FF– you are not powerless. you are not being persecuted. Neither is Trump.

    This is simply discourse. You are not being victimized.

    And the impeachment process is the appropriate legal process for a check on over reach of presidential power.

  137. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 22, 2019 at 1:17 pm | Permalink

    Child: math is bad

    Tutor: math is good

    Child: 4+2=5

    Tutor: That is bad math.

    Child: You said math is good. Am I doing math?

    Tutor: Yes you are doing math.

    Child. Oh good, then 4+2=5

    Keep trying Jean! I’m sure your life will get a little bit better every time I forget to put quotes around bad “logic”. I think I understand what you are trying to say and I think it is an extremely silly thing to say.

  138. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 22, 2019 at 1:20 pm | Permalink

    Yes Jean, I know! That is why I said I am not powerless and I am not a victim against what Lynne suggested.

    Slow down. Use your memory. Think.

  139. Lynne
    Posted October 22, 2019 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

    I will just say that when someone who clearly doesn’t understand logical thinking tells you that your logic is faulty, it just isn’t much of an insult. FF is much like HW in this regard.

  140. iRobert
    Posted October 22, 2019 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    Imagine a woman acting like Trump.

    Isn’t that a crazy image. It’s way, way, out there.

  141. iRobert
    Posted October 22, 2019 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    Trump imagines the problems he causes himself as something like a lynching. I’ve seen lots of crazy criminals who have that notion of their self-created problems. It’s aleays really funny, except for the memory of the many innocent people who were murdered through lynching throughout history.

  142. iRobert
    Posted October 22, 2019 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

    But when some idiot takes illegal action and then screams “lynching!” when the law comes down on him, it’s always great entertainment. It’s like watching a Charlie Chaplin bit.

  143. Posted October 22, 2019 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

    I think Trump might have been told to make the lynching comment just to draw attention away from his idiotic emoluments clause comment. It seems to be working. Saying something that exposes him as an idiot to his base is best covered up by having him say something almost as idiotic but which enrages the people his base hates.

    From CNN:

    CNN analyst explains Emoluments Clause to Trump

    https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/10/21/trump-rant-phony-emoluments-clause-lead-vpx.cnn

  144. iRobert
    Posted October 22, 2019 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

    It’s funny that the one tool Trump has to cover his idiocy…is more idiocy! It’s the only tool he’s got in the tool shed.

    But seriously, take a moment and really try to imagine a woman as stupid and repugnant as Trump. It’s like trying to imagine a black hole.

  145. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 22, 2019 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    Aloha JH, I am not a feminist. I am a father who was sick of my mom, my wife and daughter being treated like 2nd. class citizens. I am sick of my daughter having to pay a quarter of her pay to have health insurance while nice comfortable liberals say let’s just tweek Obama care. I am sick of the neo-liberal austerity that has meant working folks–like my mom was and my wife and daughter are–have not had a real pay increase in 40 years. I am sick of my aunts and nieces being unable to find anything but part-time shit hole jobs in the service sector–because these are the only kinds of jobs are neat little neo-liberal economy will create. In union work places there is no gender discrimination on wages by the way.

    Jean I swear you are the flip side of the EOS coin. You will say anything to defend a corrupt system–one that thinks you are only worth 79% of a man. I happen to believe you are worth much more–why such low self-esteem. Why no pride for the young woman demanding equality?

    I know, when you don’t agree with the message, kill the messenger.

  146. John Brown
    Posted October 22, 2019 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

    Dolt, working the “why do lack self respect? ” Psy-op. Rubles!

    Do they give you a note book full of human psych vulnerabilities? Are there if then scenarios about what manipulation ploy to use? FF = Dolt = Boris

  147. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 22, 2019 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    Aloha JB, I actually realize that JH is a very smart person, much smarter than me–it really bothers me when the best she wants to do is a simple one line dismissal. I thought the soccer protest was pretty cool. I thought it might provoke some discussion on how to ensure that their future would be one where equality would be more of a reality.

    I’m a dolt, I should have realized that I’m to crude and clumsy in my language.

    Do your handlers from the company give you cool resources like pych-op notebooks? Vlad just threw me out here on my own–I don’t even get expenses.

  148. Jean Henry
    Posted October 22, 2019 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

    DD– Economic inequity is not the same as sexism our racism. They do interesect but solving one does not fix the others. You are not a feminist because you realize that economic disparity impacts white women more than white men (but less than Black men and Black women). You are someone who observes the impact of gender bias and then fails to act to fix it– a bystander. Not everyone needs to be a feminist. It just bugs me when people say they are because they don’t like the class system in the US. Who fucking likes the class system we have?

    I’m not sure why you think I defend the current economic system when I spend every waking day trying to fix it and make it more equitable for workers, women and people of color, especially those who run small businesses or non-profits. It’s so ridiculous an idea that you have that I cannot even begin to address it. All I can say is while you have spent your days reading about conspiracy theories and watching the view and hitting the occasional picket line, I work to make people’s lives better. Because I know the system is fucked. We just have different views on how to fix it. I’m not waiting on a revolution.

    I’d rather be wrong and help people then right and screaming at clouds.

  149. Jean Henry
    Posted October 22, 2019 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

    DD– there’s actually a lot to talk about re wage disparities by gender. The pay gap doesn’t;t exist everywhere and actually affects high wage workers more. Women tend to slow their professional roll and hours when they have families; Men do not. The wage gap largely reflects the reality that women do the majority share of the domestic labor ( even when the men stay home with the children1).What would help with the wage issue is an truly equitable share of the domestic labor which can be set as a cultural standard if men just started doing more domestic labor, taking parental leave, picking up sick kids at school etc etc equal the amount of time as their wives. Protesting the wage gap won’t fix the larger problem of unequal earnings if women can’t work the same number of hours or make the same level of commitment to the workplace.

  150. iRobert
    Posted October 22, 2019 at 5:27 pm | Permalink

    I’m sorry, DD. The grooming isn’t going so well.

  151. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 22, 2019 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

    Lynne,

    HW has a knack for logic so thanks!

  152. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 22, 2019 at 8:47 pm | Permalink

    Aloha JH, I thought we might talk about gradualism and incrementalism. You know the haul marks of liberalism. Is going from 67 cents for every dollar a man makes, to 79 cents over a 50 year period acceptable? In 1970 (when I went to the meetings on the Nixon health care reforms–they were huge meetings in my high school gym) the Democratic program was Medicare for all with a 25 year phase in period. Instead we got for profit health insurance, HMO’s and ever rising health care cost. It is now 50 years later, is this the only kind of incremental reform allowed? We have been at war, or building up for war, almost that entire 50 year period (we had about a 5 year period 75-81 when we were not). Is this the future you want for your children–those girls playing soccer clearly do not–Greta would rather we get our priorities right—anyway that is what I thought we might discuss.

    being a rotting corpse it is hard to be anything but a bystander—but back when I was alive, I was an ass kicking feminist–we need to talk about the transformation of work–we need to give much more value to child rearing, education, building notions of equality from childhood on. Sweden, Finland, Chiapas, Rojava and others all have lessons we need to be open enough to learn from and apply in an American context. Do you think the plutocratic elite that most of the political class panders to, care at all about any of this?

  153. Jean Henry
    Posted October 22, 2019 at 9:12 pm | Permalink

    DD– No I do not. I also have not found you to have many useful answers, just lots of hand-wringing and self-centering ideological blather.

    Change is incremental because of democracy not plutocracy, you idiot..
    When you ask for rapid change you are asking for a less representative and more forceful change. We just got that with Trump and he was slowed by people who care about democratic principles more than you apparently.

    I’m all for disbanding the plutocracy but that will not make for rapid policy shifts,

    I’m interested in making things better not sitting in my overstuffed armchair bitching about how it’s not happening fast enough and everyone should just agree with me or they are terrible people.

    And then you fall for a bunch of populist nonsense from Tulsi. gah.

    Neither you nor Tulsinhave been able to convince enough people of the correctness of your vision and that’s not because of the plutocracy. Its amazing things could be as fucked up as they are and you all still can’t manage to sell a single idea well to the masses. the populist lefty left is hopelessly smug and righteous.

  154. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 22, 2019 at 10:26 pm | Permalink

    It is like looking into that black hole iRobert was talking about.

  155. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 22, 2019 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

    If we enter a black hole without dying, and look out of the black hole we will see an infinite blue shift, idiot..

  156. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 22, 2019 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

    If we looked away from the singularity at the centre of the black hole we would be able to see the whole universe in one small patch of our sky – even the stuff that is actually behind the singularity, idiot..

  157. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 22, 2019 at 10:38 pm | Permalink

    Time outside would appear to be running much faster, so we would be able to see the evolution of the universe “flash” before our eyes, idiot..

  158. iRobert
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    You can relax now, DD. Jean’s here now, and she has all the answers. Everything will be alright soon, now that the Mega-woke One has arrived.

  159. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:43 am | Permalink

    Aloha, I thought JH was being pretty perceptive with this comment, “Change is incremental because of democracy not plutocracy,” it implies that people are happy with the way things are. It also indicates that JH is quit happy with the incremental progress that has been made in things like woman rights.

    I think it is worthwhile understanding how the elite want us to think. I wonder what stand JH would have taken in 1933 when majorities elected a change and change right now Congress and President? I wonder how anti-democratic it was to make huge changes right here right now.

    Anyway JH, I always get something out of your interactions. I was so disappointed in that one off response you gave me initially, thanks you taking the time to interact, Aloha.

  160. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 8:04 am | Permalink

    Apparently using the term “lynch” is a big deal. I agree it is a huge deal. I would rather offend a few people rather than sit by quietly as the lyncher logic, which was used to commit atrocities, makes its comeback amongst the brainwashed class.

  161. Jean Henry
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 9:45 am | Permalink

    My statement implies none of those things, DD. Literally every word of your interpretation of what I said is an inaccurate reflection of my position.

    Handy for you I guess.

  162. Jean Henry
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    There has never been change that was not incremental. The 1933 election had a large build up– It was FOUR YEARS after the economic collapse. And people had been pushing for moves towards labor rights and a social safety net for a lot longer than that. For decades.

    Did you know that Social Security was staged in? That it was a concession to power offered as an alternative to a proposal for a guaranteed minimum wage?

    I am all for dramatic change in our economic system. That change won’t start if a left-leaning progressive Dem gets elected. It didn’t start with Bernie’s campaign. It didn’t even start with Occupy where the vision for Bernie’s campaign strategy was articulated by none other than Jeffrey ‘crisis capitalism’ Sachs (figure that one out… he also advised Bernie’s campaign…) It has been building for decades if not centuries and maybe we will get there, but we won’t get there by being impatient and demanding and insulting people who want the same things with ideological nonsense about right/wring and black/white. We will get there by being patient and persistent– because that’s how change always happens.

  163. Jean Henry
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 9:57 am | Permalink

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Share_Our_Wealth

  164. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    “Two men were arguing about a flag flapping in the wind. “It’s the wind that is really moving,” stated the first one. “No, it is the flag that is moving,” contended the second. A Zen master, who happened to be walking by, overheard the debate and interrupted them. “Neither the flag nor the wind is moving,” he said, “It is MIND that moves incrementally, you idiot..”

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