Debate open thread

I don’t have anything to say, but I thought that I’d start a thread, in case anyone else wanted to weigh in… With that said, I do find it interesting how everyone is lining up to take a whack at Elizabeth Warren, though. It’s like the slapping scene in Airplane.

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  1. iRobert
    Posted October 15, 2019 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

    Yeah, Warren is holding up well though.

  2. iRobert
    Posted October 15, 2019 at 8:11 pm | Permalink

    Biden fumbled around a lot on his comments. It doesn’t look good.

  3. Jean Henry
    Posted October 15, 2019 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

    Mayor Pete just owned Tulsi on Syria.
    SAD — 1
    Wobblie– 0

    Shes ridiculous.

  4. Anonymous
    Posted October 15, 2019 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

    It’s difficult to quantify how much I distrust Tulsi Gabbard.

  5. Anonymous
    Posted October 15, 2019 at 8:30 pm | Permalink

    Biden is slipping. I like him. He has integrity. But he’s not up to the task. I don’t like saying it, but he needs to step aside.

  6. Anonymous
    Posted October 15, 2019 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

    Did Yang essentially say “we interfere in elections too”? Dude needs to be escorted off the stage.

  7. Eel
    Posted October 15, 2019 at 8:47 pm | Permalink

    I love the big applause lines that get no applause.

  8. iRobert
    Posted October 15, 2019 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    Yeah, Tulsi got beat up there a bit. She shouldn’t have expected to make her broader point about endless wars, and should have instead focused on specifics of the betrayal and abandonment of the Kurds.

    Tulsi definitely took some damage on that one.

    Mayor Pete is going strong.

    Biden is stumbling on his words almost continuously. That’s got to be hurting him.

  9. iRobert
    Posted October 15, 2019 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

    Tulsi realized her mistake and attempted to correct it. She may have recovered a little, but went on too long to get her challenge of Warren in they way she should have. That’s unfortunate for her.

  10. iRobert
    Posted October 15, 2019 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

    Yang didn’t realize there are some truths you just can’t speak about publically.

  11. debate highlight
    Posted October 15, 2019 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

    Elizabeth Warren on questions about her age in taking on President Trump: “I will outwork, out-organize and outlast anyone, and that includes Donald Trump, Mike Pence, or whoever the Republicans get stuck with”

  12. iRobert
    Posted October 15, 2019 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

    I find myself wishing Sharrod Brown were in this race.

  13. iRobert
    Posted October 15, 2019 at 9:24 pm | Permalink

    The Democratic Party should have invited Alex Baldwin to be up on this stage in his Trump character. It would be great to have comedic Trump responses to all these comments from the Democratic candidates.

  14. iRobert
    Posted October 15, 2019 at 9:25 pm | Permalink

    It’s too bad this couldn’t be on a television network some people actually watch.

  15. iRobert
    Posted October 15, 2019 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

    It might work in Bidens favor that nobody watches CNN anymore.

  16. iRobert
    Posted October 15, 2019 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

    I’m glad we’ve moved to the comedy portion of the program.

  17. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 15, 2019 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

    Anybody who thinks Trump spent effort to get rid of Joe because he did not want to run against Joe is a crackhead. It is a silly proposition.

  18. Jean Henry
    Posted October 15, 2019 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

    Biden lost me at Anita Hill and has yet to win me back. He has integrity the way your old handsy and glad-handing uncle has integrity. It’s qualified and paternalistic. He’s a condescending buffoon. He’ll be a great retired politician. He needs to get out of politics and start making a difference. Or maybe Secretary of State would suit him. He can be both papa boss and hail-fellow-well-met there to great effect.

  19. iRobert
    Posted October 15, 2019 at 9:47 pm | Permalink

    Trump needs to start making phone calls to get Warren investigated. Maybe he can ask North Korea to do it.

  20. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 15, 2019 at 10:00 pm | Permalink

    Joe said “expodential” again. Bernie did not seem to get much time.

  21. iRobert
    Posted October 15, 2019 at 10:10 pm | Permalink

    Klobuchar seemed to have a good night. She doesn’t seem so timid and shaky anymore.

  22. Sad
    Posted October 15, 2019 at 10:16 pm | Permalink

    Good night for Pete.

    He needs to learn to talk less and say more.

    He kept getting cut off.

    Any of them but those three old geezers.

    They stink of yesteryear.

  23. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 15, 2019 at 10:30 pm | Permalink

    Tulsi had a poor showing imo.,

  24. John Brown
    Posted October 16, 2019 at 5:43 am | Permalink

    OMG, I agree with fashy flake on Tulsi. But of course a deliberate right wing appealing, disruptor, Assad apologist is going to look bad by American standards.

    Bernie-crats we’re pleased with his performance from what I read.

  25. iRobert
    Posted October 16, 2019 at 6:23 am | Permalink

    Candidates Airtime (min.)*
    Warren 22.8
    Biden 16.7
    Klobuchar 13.3
    O’Rourke 13.2
    Sanders 13.1
    Buttigieg 13.0
    Harris 12.4
    Booker 11.7
    Yang 8.5
    Castro 8.4
    Gabbard 8.4
    Steyer 7.2

    Average 12.4

    * Cai, Weiyi; Lee, Jasmine C.; Patel, Jugal K. (October 15, 2019). “Live Tracking Each Candidate’s Speaking Time in the Democratic Debate”. The New York Times. ISSN 0362-4331. Retrieved October 16, 2019.

  26. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 16, 2019 at 8:10 am | Permalink

    J Bro,

    You might want to try to substantiate your claims in the other thread before moving into new unsubstantiated claims.

    You understand what I was asking right? We have all read many times that CrowdStrike is central to a supposedly widely held false theory. However, I have never heard a purporter of the theory actually spinning their theory involving CrowdStrike. You said it was a fake theory people hold. Cool. Can you at least point to instances where people are actually disseminating the false theory. I can give you 30 articles that say it is a held false theory. I can give you articles that talk about how Crowdstrikes role in the Russiagate raises questions. ..

    Who is it? Is Alex Jones offering a CrowdStrike conspiracy theory? I really don’t know and your comment seems to suggest you know something I don’t know. Either that or you are repeating what you are told.

  27. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 16, 2019 at 8:50 am | Permalink

    What is planned on the 17th that has to do with removing the President from office? Dallas rally that day.

  28. Bob
    Posted October 16, 2019 at 11:16 am | Permalink

    It’s a great idea for the president to go to Dallas. Hopefully the weather will be nice for a ride in a convertible.

  29. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 16, 2019 at 11:32 am | Permalink

    Yeah, you like when Presidents are assassinated by the CIA. Real patriot there.

  30. Sad
    Posted October 16, 2019 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

    Lots of good press for Mayor Pete and Klobuchar.

    Let’s let the older woman and gentlemen enjoy their golden years out of the public spotlight.

    Biden could barely complete a sentence.

    Warren couldn’t answer a yes/no question.

    Bernie, well he had a heart attack. It doesn’t bode well.

  31. John Brown
    Posted October 16, 2019 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

    What was with the stupid “Ellen” question on trying to get along with trumpees? Here’s a question from Amanda Marcotte’s article. I know my personal answer. And If they instigate violence after all the crap they’ve pulled, oh boy, do they have it coming.

    “Do we forgive conservatives for the damage they’ve done, in the interest of keeping the peace and being the bigger people here? Or should we turn to social shunning and outright contempt?”

  32. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 16, 2019 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

    Hillary for VP makes a good story. Once they are sworn in Warren can decide to want to spend more time with her family and there you go. Hillary’s in the Oval Office without having to endure the workload of a candidate, which she could never do at this point.

  33. Sad
    Posted October 16, 2019 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

    HW you are deluded.

    It’s going to be Mayor Pete.

    I know it’s scary for you.

    But really. Let go of the Hillary stuff.

  34. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 16, 2019 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

    Nice act there lil buddy. Seriously, how are you going to stop a juggernaut? You have to keep trying with this flimsy hoax shit. You want to impeach? Oh, that allows the President to defend himself in a trial with all the evidence available. Maybe it’s not such a good idea.

    What are you going to do? These clowns can’t beat him. There is no fuckin’ way. Out of your current candidates? Trump’s fundraising is through the roof. All those American businesses that like his economic policies no doubt. Imagine going against a President Trump with twice the campaign money candidate Trump had in 2016.

  35. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 16, 2019 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, I love the tribalism of this web page. The anti-Trumpers constantly allow their biases to determine their actions. There are only three Democratic candidates who will be able to switch Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Ohio (the Dems need 3 out of four to win). Nominating a “Regular” Democrat, will guarantee Trumps reelection (impeachment is nothing but a distraction–the Republican Senate will never turn on him)

    Really the only choices if you want to win are Sanders, Gabbard or Yang. All the rest doom us to four more years of Trump—on about October next year you will begin to understand.

  36. Sad
    Posted October 16, 2019 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

    DD your lack of imagination is stunning.

    Maybe you should be depressed Dolt?

    HW someone always brings the powerful down. It’s inevitable.

  37. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 16, 2019 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, Some times the fools know the most.

    People hoped that Obama would be another Roosevelt, instead they got another Cleveland. Is Mayor Pete going to mobilize people behind what ? being a good moderate? by doing what the donor class requires?
    I’ll vote for him if nominated, but will he bring more Michiganders to the polls for him than Hillary got for her? If so, what populations is he mobilizing, and on what program?

    Gabbard, Sanders and Yang all will bring new folks into the Democratic fold. I’ve not heard one Clintonite on this web page declare they would vote for those three if one got the nomination. I am old enough to have worked for McGovern in 72. I saw the establishment party walk away from McGovern and give Nixon a second term. They ultimately got rid of Nixon—but the Democrats controlled both houses of Congress—they don’t come close in the Senate and I see nothing that gives them 2/3 majority in this election.

    We either defeat Trump at the polls or live under him for at least another 4—get over it. Who do you know who didn’t vote in the last election–talk seriously with them about why, and what would get them to the polls.

  38. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 16, 2019 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    Wait till you realize who the powerful are, who is taking them down and what that means for the world. 8chan upgraded and reborn as 8kun very soon. Servers capable of handling a high volume of views you think?

  39. Jean Henry
    Posted October 16, 2019 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    DD’s preferred world view is that flipping white working class Trump voters is the way to victory. In fact there’s another path which is getting out the vote in urban and suburban areas at Obama levels. That seems like an easier lift given who is in office. It also handily pushes us in a more truly progressive, less isolationist direction. Trump voters seem pretty happy with the results. I don’t really want to know what would be required to win them. I don’t understand DD’s loyalty given that the same Reagan Dems sold out the unions for a little racist patriotic good feeling. Hope springs eternal I guess.

  40. iRobert
    Posted October 16, 2019 at 6:10 pm | Permalink

    Though you make a good point about getting out the vote, Jean, I’m not sure DD’s reasons for supporting Tulsi are based so much on general election strategy as they are on his agreeing with Tulsi’s Policy positions. At least that’s what I’d say about my preferring Tulsi.

  41. Jean Henry
    Posted October 16, 2019 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

    I wasn’t;t suggesting otherwise iRobert. I was responding to this from DD above:
    “Gabbard, Sanders and Yang all will bring new folks into the Democratic fold.”

    I don’t believe bringing in. new voters is what the Dems need. We have more voters; they just don’t vote. It’s critically important that we retain voters of color in particular as 25% of African Americans and more Latinx voters identify as socially conservative. They would be Republicans if the GOP weren’t so dense. We have to start producing economic equity and social justice results for them, because they will be the majority in 10 years or so. They might give up on us by then. We have taken them for granted for years. I can see why they are angry.

    Tulsi isn’t reaching them. White populists and stridently anti-war leftists like her. And only the anti-war leftists will vote for her. Lots of people would self-identity as anti-war (duh); few would take Tulsi’s positions.

  42. Lynne
    Posted October 16, 2019 at 6:31 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think Warren *couldn’t* answer that yes/no question. It was that she wouldn’t. With good reason too. She has a great shot of getting the nomination and thus must be careful about saying anything that can be taken out of context and edited down so it makes it look like she said something that doesn’t tell the whole story. That is why she kept saying that she wouldn’t sign a bill that didn’t lower costs for most people.

    Yes, taxes will go up. She knows that as well as anyone but overall costs will go down. I pay around $900/mo for health insurance now. Medicare-for-all will not be raising my taxes by that much. Far from it! And actually, there is a possibility that Medicare-for-all may ultimately even mean *lower* taxes if other laws, such as the one preventing Medicare from negotiating drug prices, are changed at the same time. Yet there just was no way she could explain all of that without saying “taxes may go up for the middle class” which would be a sound bite the other side absolutely would use if she gets the nomination. She had to make a choice there and I think she made the right one.

    I also was very impressed with how Warren handled some of the sexism coming from Biden, especially when he was taking credit for her work. That really made me realize that she has what it takes to win in the general election.

  43. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 16, 2019 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

    J Bro seems to have a fantasy where people would care that he he was shunning them or having contempt for them. J Bro has quite the imagination.

    Thanks for revealing you like Marcotte. It is good to be aware of what sort of garbage people are consuming.

    Again, have you witnessed people expressing a false conspiracy theory involving CrowdStrike? Can you point to the particular expression of that theory?

  44. Lynne
    Posted October 16, 2019 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

    I also want to say that I will vote for anyone who wins the Democratic nomination. Every single one of them would be an improvement. It would take someone truly horrible for me to vote third party and there are no truly horrible people running in the Dem primary

  45. Lynne
    Posted October 16, 2019 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    I am not surprised that FF doesn’t like Amanda Marcotte given that he generally seems to loathe women who think they deserve any kind of equality in our society and dare to use their voice to express it.

  46. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 16, 2019 at 7:24 pm | Permalink


    That is a smear attempt wrapped in a lie. I don’t tend to dislike people who expect equality. We should all expect equality. We should all speak out against injustice. I dislike Marcotte because her writing is lacking ideas and reason on the One hand; and other hand her heavy on hate, generalities, cuss words and assumptions. She reminds me of J Bro and his horrible writing. Is J Bro an outspoken woman fighting for equality?

    Anyway, prove your smear attempt is not wrapped in a lie by pointing to the instances where I show that I loathe any woman because she is outspoken about some injustice?

    You won’t give an example because you can’t. Why are you always lying Lynne?

  47. Jean Henry
    Posted October 16, 2019 at 7:40 pm | Permalink

    Anyone who doesn’t support impeachment after presidential refusal to cooperate with congressional oversight is anti-American. It doesn’t matter what side you are on. Allowing this precedent to stand permanently disables our democracy. No doubt FF would not want President Warren or Sanders to proceed as thought there were no limits on their power should either become president. I don’t understand Mayor Pete not understanding the constitutional issues raised by just allowing this to go to the electorate without a thorough airing by congress. I can’t get my head around it. It seems purely political. It is not reflective of any principle I can imagine.

  48. Jean Henry
    Posted October 16, 2019 at 7:48 pm | Permalink

    Oops– I guess he is for it now; he’s just not talking about it because it’s so important… or something.

  49. Jean Henry
    Posted October 16, 2019 at 9:05 pm | Permalink

    Dipped into Fox News for a bit. Man do they love themselves some Tulsi.

  50. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 16, 2019 at 9:14 pm | Permalink

    “congressional oversight”

    They have to have a vote to initiate an impeachment inquiry. Without that there is no inquiry so why would he have to comply with some letter?

  51. iRobert
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 6:17 am | Permalink

    Fox loves Tulsi because the Democratic Party establishment sees her as a threat, and for that reason only. If Tulsi started to look like she was going to be the front-runner, Fox would switch to trashing her like they automatically do with any Democratic Party front-runner. Pretending otherwise is only meant to hurt poor little DD’s feelings.

  52. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    “Anyone who doesn’t support impeachment after presidential refusal to cooperate with congressional oversight is anti-American.”

    Vote or don’t vote. What do these super-American-patriots have against voting? In Jean’s world voting is anti-American. In Jean’s world transparency is anti- American. In Jean’s world barring members of other committees from questioning witnesses is super patriotic.

    Checks and balances is not defined by whatever bullshit plan Schiff wants to execute. The potential voters in Trump districts will hold the potential house voters accountable.

    True patriots hate democracy, constitutional processes and checks and balances?


  53. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    The more important question is why do average Dems hate Tulsi. She is the target of Dem launched smears that are lies. Why?

    Fox News likes Tulsi because taking a look at her relationship to Dems puts the corruption of Dems on display.

    Why wouldn’t like Tulsi for that reason?

    Jean would rather hide the corruption, hide the corruption, hide the corruption, because patriots hide corruption….In Jean’s fucked up little world.

  54. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 8:53 am | Permalink

    Aloha, I maybe old, but not that old, so I don’t watch Fox–average age of viewer 68(ie. the only folks who tune into Fox are old white people).

    CNN wasn’t far behind, though — its average audience was 63. MSNBC was a perky 59. CNBC is the young turk at 52.”

    These are three year old statistics, so the average age has only gone up. Which explains why so many folks on this page live in reality bubbles. (I stay away from corporate propaganda as much as possible).

    JH, says there is no need to expand the Democratic voter base because they have so many voters already—It is like she has never heard of the electoral college. It does not matter if the most people vote for you (hesus, you would think she would remember Hillary). It matters that you get the most votes in states that add up to 270 electoral votes. But i guess I have been ignorant of the demographic changes in Michigan where there are now 17,000 more soccer moms than in in 16.

  55. iRobert
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:01 am | Permalink

    Average Dems generally don’t hate Tulsi. Jean is no average Dem, if she can be considered one at all. The Democratic Party leadership fears Tulsi, and the military industrial complex will do what is necessary to keep her far from any chance of getting in the White House. The MSM is just follows suit.

    Fox is obviously not concerned with corruption. I’m not buying that you really believe that they are, FF. Their motivation is always very painfully and embarrassingly apparent. There’s no reason to pretend otherwise here. This blog has a very small readership.

  56. iRobert
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    DD: “I stay away from corporate propaganda as much as possible”

    What is it that you think would happen if you didn’t?

  57. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    “The Democratic Party leadership fears Tulsi, and the military industrial complex will do what is necessary to keep her far from any chance of getting in the White House. The MSM is just follows suit.”

    Yes. I agree. And people like Jean, Mark and J Bro parrot the MSM Media. That is why I call them “average democrats”. They are actually worse than average because they are the ones who are at the forefront of consuming garbage as if it is the truth.

    I disagree about Fox. They are very concerned with Dem corruption specifically. They just are not concerned with corruption in general.

  58. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    Maybe I need to come up with a new term? I used the term “average” to convey the ideas of mediocrity and lack of independent analysis. I can see how the gullible and robotic aspect might not be conveyed with the term “average”.

    I always assumed they would consider it an insult that they were average.

    “Tool” always felt too derogatory.

    Maybe “average” is too subtle?

  59. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    Aloha iRobert, be bored and fall asleep–the adds on youtube are so much more entertaining. Just saw one for a new line of male personal care items, Dr. Squatch shampoo, very funny. I frequent the Democratic Underground (an old agregator news site)–of course I am banned from participating–only those who follow the establishment line are allowed. They think just like JH and MM.
    Is it any wonder that not one question in the last debate dealt with climate change (most candidates brought it up in one way or another) since some of CNN biggest advertisers are the American Petroleum Industry, EXXON/Mobil, Lexus, Audi, Mercedes, Mini Cooper.

    Don’t worry be happy, its all Trump’s fault.

  60. iRobert
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    Mark is probably the closest thing to an average Democrat here, and yes he often simply parrots MSM.

    He believes in the sincerity of folks in the MSM in the same way that you believe Fox sincerity. Fox is simply anti-Dem and expresses that by focusing all their attention on looking for potential Dem corruption. The MSM is simply anti-Trump and expresses that by focusing all their attention on looking for potential Trump corruption. There are of course exceptions in the individual level occasionally. But neither the MSM or Fox is concerned with corruption itself as a problem. They all go right along when it serves their own goals. That’s not anti-corruption. It’s all self serving.

  61. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:39 am | Permalink

    Mark is probably going to take that parallel you are drawing as a huge insult. I know I do. Sorry Mark :(

  62. iRobert
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    Agreed, FF, it might just be that “average” isn’t the best word for what you’re saying.

    I guess I get what you’re saying anyway. But let’s not forget how way off the deep end everyone here is. For each of the nutty characters here there are thousands of relatively normal people out there.

  63. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    Good point. Your attitude is the right one to have too. There are a lot of decent people on both sides and a lot horrible people in charge. When I use the term “average” I am disparaging decent people who just want their lives to be better. I will stop using the term.

    I think we need to aim for unity at some point. Maybe even before I die I hope..

  64. iRobert
    Posted October 24, 2019 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    Tim Ryan has dropped out of the race for the Presidency.

  65. Posted November 8, 2019 at 5:09 am | Permalink

    Michael Bloomberg Actively Prepares to Enter 2020 Presidential Race

  66. Sad
    Posted November 8, 2019 at 7:07 am | Permalink

    Bloomberg? What a joke.

    He’s only been a mayor.

  67. Anonymous
    Posted November 8, 2019 at 7:15 am | Permalink

    But he has run a very large private organization as well as a very large public organization as well as being a multi billionaire. Let the conspiracy theories begin!

  68. Jean Henry
    Posted November 8, 2019 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    Bloomberg sneak attack on Mayor Pete. Pete will get him on the soda ban thing. “If you want to keep your super-sized coca-cola, you get to keep it.”

  69. Sad
    Posted November 8, 2019 at 8:34 am | Permalink

    I doubt the Democratic Party has much of an appetite for a mega billionaire.

    Still the contrast will make Mayor Pete more appealing.

  70. Jean Henry
    Posted November 8, 2019 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    I may also prompt some people to look up the size of South Bend Indiana (100k ppl) v NYC (8.6 million). They then might find out that Pete’s narrative about his hometown is a bit off and a great deal of racial animus exists, especially towards him. He created some economic momentum (small town; not that hard) but not everyone is sharing in the prosperity and his police force is super white. Then they might figure out that there’s no way in hell he is qualified to be president, (because he’s barely qualified to be a small city mayor) so he’ll need to rely on his pals from Harvard to advise him, like that billionaire Mark Zuckerberg.So what’s the difference really?

    Pete might take it. I can totally see that happen. I hope I’m surprised at his ability to handle the job. He’s a charming fella.

  71. Lynne
    Posted November 8, 2019 at 11:23 am | Permalink

    I wonder if this Bloomberg thing is a reaction to how well Warren is doing in the polls? The billionaire class doesn’t seem to like her for some reason.

    Re: Mayor Pete. I was listening to a very good NPR show last night

    The topic was how can white candidates reach out to black voters. Lots of good stuff there. I hope Mayor Pete (and the others) take this advice. Too often those votes are taken for granted.

  72. Posted November 8, 2019 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

    Do Democratic Voters Want A New Candidate? l FiveThirtyEight

  73. Sad
    Posted November 8, 2019 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

    No new candidates.

    Just the young one we already have!

    No boomers!

  74. Sad
    Posted November 9, 2019 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    Rumor is Mayor Pete is eyeing Elissa Slotkin For Vice President.

    Go Michigan!

  75. Jean Henry
    Posted November 9, 2019 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

    That would be very poor strategy, SAD. He does;t need to convince the midwest. He’s going to need to attract POC. So far he has not wooed them and Slotkin is not going to help..

  76. Bob
    Posted November 9, 2019 at 10:19 pm | Permalink

    Naomi Klein just endorsed Sanders. What a sexist Bernie Bro.

  77. Sad
    Posted November 9, 2019 at 10:46 pm | Permalink

    Mandy Moore endorsed Mayor Pete!

  78. Posted November 10, 2019 at 8:05 am | Permalink

    From FiveThirtyEight:

    How Seriously Should We Take Michael Bloomberg’s Potential 2020 Run?

  79. Sad
    Posted November 10, 2019 at 8:20 am | Permalink

    I still don’t understand why the others haven’t just thrown in behind Mayor Pete?

    Who else even has a chance?

    Certainly not Bloomberg. You’d think he could just enjoy his 52 billion and support causes from behind the scene.

  80. Jean Henry
    Posted November 10, 2019 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    Bob– you fatuous ass, how many times do we have to say not all Sander’s supporters are assholes? That does not mean bros don’t exist. Get over yourself. This whole ‘Not all xx are yy, therefore yy does not exist” strain of argument needs to stop. One thing I feel confident Naomi Klein won’t do is argue that, because she supports Sanders, the rest of his supporters are all feminists and treat women fairly and with respect.

  81. Bob
    Posted November 10, 2019 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    Phony and full of shit you are, Jean.

  82. Anonymous
    Posted November 10, 2019 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    Can we talk about the successful AAPS millage? I think it is a net plus, as I expect Whitmore Lake and Ypsilanti districts to collapse because of lost enrollment in the next 20 years, and AAPS will need these capital funds to maintain the Whitmore Lake and Ypsilanti buildings they will be assigned responsibility for when parts of those districts are absorbed by AAPS.

  83. Lynne
    Posted November 10, 2019 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

    Bob IS a great example of a Bernie Bro, fwiw. I wonder if that is why he is so sensitive about the term? Too close to home?

  84. Jean Henry
    Posted November 10, 2019 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

    Anonymous– both Whitmore Lake and Ypsi schools are doing much better than they have in ages. They do have fewer resources for buildings etc but Ypsi’s per student funding is higher than A2’s thanks to title 1. The possibility of a schools merger (not forced) is one many are talking about along with reform at the state level once redistricting reform is put in place in 2021.

    I’m attaching a great MI school funding for those who want to learn more. And I’m organizing a public talk and Q&A by the author, David Arsen, on the history of MI public school funding and possible avenues for reform. I’ll keep MM posted as we nail down time and dates.

  85. Jean Henry
    Posted November 10, 2019 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    “Phony and full of shit you are, Jean.”

    aw! Bob looked up the meaning of the word ‘fatuous.’

  86. Anonymous
    Posted November 10, 2019 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

    It is a witch hunt. The witches are hunting you.

  87. Anonymous
    Posted November 10, 2019 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    Whitmore Lake enrollment 10 years ago, 1200 students vs today, 740 students.
    Ypsilanti enrollment 10 years ago, 3900 and Willow Run enrollment 10 years ago 2000.
    Ypsilanti Consolidated today, 3800 students.
    Ann Arbor enrollments 10 years ago, 16450 students vs today, 17930 students.
    Total of above 10 years ago 23550 students vs today, 22470 students.
    Hardly a paragon of stability.

    It echoes down the line.

  88. Jean Henry
    Posted November 10, 2019 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

    Yes Anonymous, enrollment is down but WL schools are solvent. They have rented out a bunch of their physical space to religious charter schools. My understanding was that Ypsi schools were doing better financially too. (I don’t know as much there). At any rate, I don’t think they will be forced to merge. It may be what happens by choice. I don’t know that A2 wants them. Why would they when they can continue to leech their students without providing bus service?

    As for the facilities, it sounds like A2 area is growing fast enough that they’d be put to use. The new WL high school is really nice. It almost bankrupted the district and it sits half empty but the facility itself is nice and unlikely to need any more major upgrades. (We just voted for a maintenance millage earlier this year.

  89. Jean Henry
    Posted November 11, 2019 at 6:36 am | Permalink

    Sad– I have some major concerns about Mayor Pete’s anti-Obama approach. It may win him a primary in Iowa but he needs to lay off that crap. What is he thinking? You follow him. You tell me.

    “My message is not about going back to where we were,” he said. “The failures of the Obama era help explain how we got Trump. I am running on building a future that is going to have a lot of differences.… One thing I learned in 2016 is to be very skeptical of any message that relies on the word ‘again.’ ”

  90. Sad
    Posted November 11, 2019 at 9:05 am | Permalink

    Man, maybe HW is right about some of you. Please give the young gay boy a chance.

    He really wants to help. Everybody.

    And on a side note even Obama wasn’t perfect.

  91. Jean Henry
    Posted November 11, 2019 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

    Obama was no perfect but running against him sure sounds like a dog whistle to Trump voters and against the most loyal and consistent Dem voters, women of color.

    Pretending POC don’t like him because he’s gay is evasion. They literally never talk about that. They talk about how he does not know how to talk to them or their interests. He has some time to change his rhetoric and I hope he does, because we cannot win on converting WWC voters if it means we lose our base and fail to GOTV where it counts.

  92. iRobert
    Posted November 17, 2019 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    Sad, you’ve got to be happy about Mayor Pete taking a clear lead in the latest polls from Iowa.

  93. Posted November 17, 2019 at 9:47 am | Permalink

    Pete Buttigieg surges to first place in Iowa, new poll shows

  94. Bob
    Posted November 17, 2019 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

    I’m usually the guy laughing at conspiracy theories but I’m finding the Mayor Pete surge dubious at best. He’s a fairly well-spoken but essentially shallow candidate with little of Obama’s charisma. And Jean can baselessly pretend she’s the authority on how minorities think, as she does on every other subject, I’m very skeptical. I find it very hard to believe socially conservative middle Americans are going to vote for some skinny white dude who’s bringing his husband to the White House. The candidate would have to be Obama level impressive to bridge that gap. Is Mayor Pete that candidate? Doubtful.

  95. iRobert
    Posted November 18, 2019 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    Mayor Pete’s surge in Iowa is genuine. He has the best campaign organization there because has inspired the best campaigners to join.

  96. iRobert
    Posted November 18, 2019 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    Senator Sanders’ gained some ground in Iowa too. Biden and Warren have been slipping there.

  97. iRobert
    Posted November 18, 2019 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    I think it’s mostly Mayor Pete’s demeanor and personal story that are inspiring the best campaigners to get out there for him. I’d say that’s why he’s doing so well in fundraising too.

  98. Sad
    Posted November 18, 2019 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

    There’s a story going around that the poll that put Pete ahead included a lot of Republicans.

    It will be interesting to see how he takes the heat.

    I love that Omar is attacking him now for his use of a stock photo.

    Oh well. If we survived 3 years of Trump we could probably survive another 4.

  99. Jean Henry
    Posted November 18, 2019 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

    Bob is still shocked, shocked, shocked to find that a lot of our country is moderate. It must be a conspiracy to hide all those radical leftists in Iowa.

  100. dogmatic dolt
    Posted November 19, 2019 at 12:19 am | Permalink

    Aloha, the real divisions in the country are how many imperialist v anti-imperialist. Economic sanctions are just warfare by other means–still very lethal to the victims.

  101. Sad
    Posted November 19, 2019 at 4:52 am | Permalink

    Somehow I messed up your link DD and got this.

    What are you reading. And do you just hate everyone and everything they do?

  102. Jean Henry
    Posted November 19, 2019 at 7:20 am | Permalink

    DD’s world view is one of American Exceptionalism. It’s all our fault. Venezuela is our fault. It really makes foreign policy easy when you are an isolationist. Basically it comes down to fuck ’em, just so long as my hands are clean of the mess.

  103. Sad
    Posted November 19, 2019 at 6:31 pm | Permalink


    Now he’s way ahead in NH.

    It will be a good test for him to see how he handles this.

    They’ll figuratively have their knifes out tomorrow night.

  104. iRobert
    Posted November 19, 2019 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

    I wonder if Mayor Pete’s surge is what got Bloomberg to jump in to the race.

  105. Sad
    Posted November 19, 2019 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

    Yeah it probably upset his ego so much he coudn’t Bear it.

    Billionaire blowhard Boomer.

    Good riddance. Although he can keep giving away money. He seems really good at that.

  106. dogmatic dolt
    Posted November 19, 2019 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, I like the mashed potatoe recipe. Sad do you think anyone will ask Pete about the “Douglas Plan” and all those endorsements ? Perhaps a woman of color on the stage?
    No JH, I do not believe in American Exceptionalism. I do understand that if you are a brown person you will have real misgivings about US foreign policy. But heh, you’ve not seen a US supported coup that you can’t get behind. WHAT GIVES US THE RIGHT to tell the Venezuelans or the Bolivians or the Syrians or the Nicaraguans or the Hondurans or the Haitians who their Government is?
    I know it is the moral superiority of you and other white folks like you that gives the US “legitimacy”. We just helped install a white racist fascist regime in La Plaz, I’m sure you are gohung for that. Since all you know is what the CIA and its mouth pieces tell you, I suspect you don’t know the new regime is one that would make EOS salivate for.

  107. Sad
    Posted November 19, 2019 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

    Yes DD Mayor Pete will be attacked. It’s good for him.

    I don’t know why anyone would expect a white politician to be attuned to the needs of African- Americans? They all could probably use an education. Mayor Pete’s father was friends with Cornel West, maybe he’ll give Pete some advice once Sanders passes away, er, I mean pulls out of the race.

  108. dogmatic dolt
    Posted November 19, 2019 at 9:36 pm | Permalink

    Aloha Sad, if we are relying upon our father’s, is Mayor Pete a closet Gramscian? If so, I will need to reconsider my support.

  109. Sad
    Posted November 19, 2019 at 9:42 pm | Permalink

    He’s dead.

    But early on the far right press was reporting that Mayor Pete was raised in a house filled with communist! The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

    Even EOS will come around when he realizes mayor Pete will discourage abortions by encouraging women with unplanned pregnancies to donate the children to gay couples.

  110. dogmatic dolt
    Posted November 19, 2019 at 9:48 pm | Permalink

    Aloha Sad, my experience tells me that many children rebel against their parents norm. You do have a pretty good since of humor. But does Pete?

  111. Sad
    Posted November 19, 2019 at 9:52 pm | Permalink

    I thought everyone becomes their parents. Eventually.

  112. dogmatic dolt
    Posted November 19, 2019 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

    Aloha Sad, very true, but Pete is only 39. We will have to amend the constitution to get rid of term limits to get the candidate I would want to vote for.

    Jimmy Carter is a much better ex-president than he was president.

  113. Anonymous
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 7:44 am | Permalink

  114. iRobert
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 10:28 am | Permalink

    It will be interesting to see how Mayor Pete is treated by the other candidates tonight in Atlanta.

    I’m still in Tulsi’s camp, but she’ll have to really impress tonight to stay in this thing.

  115. iRobert
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    MSNBC will livestream the debate on and, along with the NBC News and Washington Post mobile apps. The debate will also be available on SiriusXM Channel 118 and TuneIn.


  116. Posted November 20, 2019 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

    The MSNBC pre-show is live streaming now.

  117. dogmatic dolt
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 8:59 pm | Permalink

    Aloha iRobert, Tulsi will surprise many people when people actually vote in Iowa and New Hampshire. The poll that has Pete up in Iowa was a very small sample size. It also follows a very major media push he just did. Biden, Sanders and Warren are the only ones with staying power (beside Tulsi–think of her campaign as a guerilla movement–she spends very little compared to others because more of her campaign is people powered). Biden is broke and counting on blacks in S. Carolina to keep him in first. Sanders is the man to beat. He has money and people. Harris is floundering as her constituency keeps waffling between her and Pete and whomever MSM is propping up this week. If Sanders, Yang and Gabbard can collectively control enough delegates at the convention, we might actually get some people reforms in the Democratic Party. This is the first goal.
    After all it is Blue no matter who right?

  118. Jean Henry
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

    DD– I do not approve of everything the US does abroad– not by a long shot. But I also know that Venezual’s situation is not entirely our fault. Your analysis routinely assumes that the Us can only be a bad actor abroad and that most ills of humanity or at least globalism are our fault entirely. That’s a form of American exceptionalism. If we exit the foreign theater, peace will not break out.

  119. Jean Henry
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

    Anonymous– that film looks amazing. thanks for the heads up. A reminder to spend my time more wisely.

  120. Jean Henry
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 9:53 pm | Permalink

    Tulsi plays to anti-semetism. She’s gross. No wonder the isolationist alt-right loves her.

  121. dogmatic dolt
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 10:02 pm | Permalink

    Aloha JH, thanks for sharing the latest smear. I don’t bother reading the mouthpiece of the ruling elite–they are scared of Tulsi quit obviously. What business does the US have in intervening in any country? My god, we are constantly conspiring with different opposition movements in other countries. This latest racist coup in Bolivia is the latest example. Military’s in the US near Empire do not throw out existing governments without our approval.

    You are outraged by the Russian influence in our elections. Why do you support politicians in our country that support foreign intervention?

    Love all the Dem’s talking about how they are going to spend all this money on us. Tulsi is the only one who know’s where we get the money. NO Trillions for war a peace dividend instead.

  122. Jean Henry
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 10:14 pm | Permalink

  123. Jean Henry
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 10:14 pm | Permalink

    I really wish Bernie would stop yelling to the choir.

  124. Jean Henry
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 10:46 pm | Permalink

    Tulsi soundbite re the Dem party not being the party of the people is already being used by the Trump campaign. She’s tool.

  125. Sad
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 11:01 pm | Permalink

    Booker finally shows up.

    A little late buddy but good performance.

  126. Jean Henry
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 11:14 pm | Permalink

    Nut Biden has established himself as the Black candidate, according to his own estimation.
    “I come out of the black community in terms of my support.”

  127. iRobert
    Posted November 21, 2019 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    Biden’s really shaky. He just can’t seem to calm down and get it together.

    I wish I were advising Tulsi. I’d suggest she drop all this talk about the process being rigged, though it certainly is. I think she’s still a bit too offended by that realization. The scope of it is definitely a disturbing thing to have to digest.

  128. Jean Henry
    Posted November 21, 2019 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    iRobert– no one is offended by the idea that political parties are internally directed by money and power and so lean towards maintaining the status quo even as their candidates and constituent base may want something more radical. That is not shocking to anyone. In a country where the radical extremes represent vast differences in direction, we are left with a mediated middle path or a disaster. While I’m deeply progressive, I do not support the new populist isolationist bent of candidates like Tulsi and Trump who acan straddle both parties’ extreme fringe. I think they are dangerous. I think they should be third party candidates.

    There are many many people who understand the Democratic Party is far from perfect but still value it. They may want reform (like an end to citizen’s united which most Dem candidates now support) but they do not want to destroy the party. Anyone who runs within the party should understand its value as well as its faults. Tulsi basically received an invitation and attended a fancy dinner party and attacked the host. It’s populist theater. Some people love it. It’s also quite obviously going to reasonably anger anyone who values the party itself, and thinks that, at this time in history, its survival and success is critical to our future of our country.

    Tulsi doesn’t have the votes because her positions are not popular with most Americans when it comes down to a vote, not opinion polls. Anyone who as ever paid attention to surveys or polls knows that people are unreliable narrators of their own behaviors. Or rather that their idea of what they want and what they will do is often out of sync with their behavior.

    iRobert tends towards a self-inflating analysis. He thinks he knows things others do not .( I mean if others know those things too, they would come to the same conclusions, right???) As a result, he often says incredibly stupid and unfounded things. OK Boomer

  129. iRobert
    Posted November 21, 2019 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

    JH: “iRobert tends towards a self-inflating analysis. He thinks he knows things others do not .( I mean if others know those things too, they would come to the same conclusions, right???) As a result, he often says incredibly stupid and unfounded things. OK Boomer”

    I try not to sound too self-inflating while still attempting to hint at things most people are obviously missing. Being accused of any sort of self-inflating by you is especially hunousous. I do appreciate the comedy of it, or lunacy, or whatever it is.

    It would help me if you could give me examples of the incredibly stupid and uninformed things I say. I’ll try to better explain my points or correct them. Otherwise I’ll just assume you are doing what you do everywhere and with everyone, which is picking fights with and trying to offend everyone.

    Is the “Ok Boomer” a suggestion that I am of the Boomer generation? I don’t get it.

  130. iRobert
    Posted November 21, 2019 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

    “Humorous” rather than “hunousous”

  131. iRobert
    Posted November 21, 2019 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

    I know the issues Tulsi is going on about are a touchy subject for you, Jean. So I’m sorry I triggered you by suggesting she has legitimate concerns. She does, however, and I can assure you she’s been discovering a lot more about the topic than you’ll ever know.

  132. iRobert
    Posted November 23, 2019 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

    I’m still allowed to comment here aren’t I? I wasn’t sure if my commenting here is in violation of Jean’s rule that this is a liberal blog and only those who are in agreement belong here.

  133. iRobert
    Posted November 23, 2019 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

    I acknowledge that I say some “stupid and unfounded things” as Jean suggests. But I hope Jean doesn’t believe that by pointing that out she has successfully distracted everyone from the stupid and unfounded things she says here constantly.

  134. Sad
    Posted November 23, 2019 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

    I hope he’s giving Mayor Pete a lot of money and continues getting his name out there!

    Go Pete.

  135. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 23, 2019 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

    Tulsi’s name recognition was extremely low a month ago. She did not got much media access + coordinated smears against her = a lot to overcome.

  136. dogmatic dolt
    Posted November 24, 2019 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, Speaking truth to power
    Tulsi Gabbard
    ‏Verified account @TulsiGabbard
    Nov 20

    So much for the promise of equal time for all candidates, @AndrewYang got half the time as the usual media favorites. Typical. -V #LetYangSpeak #LetTulsiSpeak

  137. Sad
    Posted November 24, 2019 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    Best news for Mayor Pete today?

    Bloomberg is in.

    Talk about a corporate Billionaire. Pete again moves towards the center without having to do anything. Smart kid.

  138. Posted December 3, 2019 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    As EOS has already reported, Senator Kamala Harris has dropped out of the presidential race.

    From Politico:

    Kamala Harris drops out of presidential race

  139. Posted December 4, 2019 at 7:42 am | Permalink

    From The Hill:

    Steyer qualifies for December Democratic debate

  140. iRobert
    Posted December 16, 2019 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    Bloomberg is screwed. His campaign can’t possibly go anywhere. The truth about what a disgusting person he is has been coming out pretty quick. If he stays in the race it’s only for the purpose of doing damage to other candidates.

  141. iRobert
    Posted December 19, 2019 at 8:03 pm | Permalink

    The debate is live on channel 56.1 in Detroit.

  142. iRobert
    Posted December 19, 2019 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

    Who else here is watching the Democratic debate?

  143. Sad
    Posted December 21, 2019 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    I’ve heard that the success of Mayor Pete’s doppelgänger Brad Stevens is a good omen for the outcome in Iowa!

    And that Wine cave insult really seems to be coming back to haunt Senator Warren.

  144. Jean Henry
    Posted December 21, 2019 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

    The apology didn’t help her. That debate was a dud, except for Klobuchar.

  145. John Brown
    Posted December 22, 2019 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

    I love how insulting billionaires is class warfare, jeesh. But hoarding wealth to such an extent that it prevents the majority from having a decent standard of living and healthcare isn’t? What does Amazon pay fulfillment workers again? There’s your class warefare. Fuck them billionaires.

  146. Sad
    Posted December 22, 2019 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

    John I think you need to take a page from Nancy Pelosi and drop the hate. Middle class people , upper middle class people, millionaires, billionaires , we need all of their votes and resources to defeat the fascist Trump.

    It’s Christmas.

  147. John Brown
    Posted December 22, 2019 at 9:44 pm | Permalink

    Sad perfectly demonstrates the true meaning of Xmas. To manipulate and control for the benefit of the rich and powerful. Thank you.

  148. Jean Henry
    Posted December 22, 2019 at 11:50 pm | Permalink

    Bit much, JB, dontcha think?

  149. Sad
    Posted December 23, 2019 at 6:55 am | Permalink

    I’m giving all my Christmas money to Mayor Pete.

    I’m all in on centrist incremental change and uniting the American people.

  150. John Brown
    Posted December 23, 2019 at 8:53 am | Permalink

    JH, A bit much IS my bit.

    Sad, why bother donating to Pete when he’s already bankrolled by billionaires? Or at least that’s what all the common people who find Bernie and Warren appealing are going to say to themselves. This will manifest as lack of enthusiasm over his candidacy and another Hillary. Bernie won Michigan because of this distinction.

  151. Sad
    Posted December 23, 2019 at 9:46 am | Permalink

    Bernie won Michigan because of his great message and how flawed Hillary was.

    Let’s see who wins this year. It should be fun.

    And don’t worry I can handle JB being rough. It’s happened before. And I’m already Sad…..

  152. Jean Henry
    Posted December 23, 2019 at 10:05 am | Permalink

    Sad– Bernie won Michigan because polls (and so the media) said she had it in the bag, and so many many Dems stayed home or crossover voted strategically in the GOP primary.

    Bernie’s message like JB’s is that there are bad guys and they are the 1%; They are other– not us. It’s WAY too fucking easy. Everybody loves someone to blame. I know 1%ers who voted Bernie like it was some kind of moral get out of jail free card. I know even more top 20%ers (the REAL wealth hoarders) who voted for him and love to rail against the 1%. Populism is reductive and stupid. Far too many people think, because of Bernie’s rhetoric, that they can have everything they want just by taxing the 1%. That there will be no cost, financial or otherwise to dramatic change (however necessary). Even talking about the real costs of economic correction and broad social supports will get people calling me a moderate, even though I think radical economic adjustment will be worth the cost. It’s willful ignorance that Bernie peddles. And he’s not alone. I’d still vote for him happily as the process of trying to implement will reveal the political reality. It’s his die-hards who are certain to be disappointed by his lack of follow-through should he get the nod.

  153. John Brown
    Posted December 23, 2019 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    “willful ignorance that Bernie peddles” – worked for Agent Orange. Lots of idiocracy swing voters would have no problem going over to Bernie. Whereas Mayor Pete has some challenges with that crowd. Don’t underestimate the homophobia effect from your POV of our Ypsi-Arbor bubble. Warren could then work on real deliverables from the Senate.

  154. Jean Henry
    Posted December 23, 2019 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    Trump’s rhetoric and Bernie’s were very similar. The system is fucked. People are taking your jobs and making you struggle– People from other countries and the elite. The military, the government and the press are corrupt and must be purged. . I feel for you. I’m going to fix it by turning the whole thing upside down. I had Trump supporters from my home town post statements that sounded exactly like Berner’s.

    I would have to look to see what side they were on.

  155. Jean Henry
    Posted December 23, 2019 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

    John Brown– the election rides on turn out and enthusiasm, not witching any voters. I think you greatly overestimate Bernie’s appeal to Trumpers. They like that he wants to fuck things up but they HATE socialism. They would never ever vote for him even though he says many of the same things Trump does.

  156. Jean Henry
    Posted December 23, 2019 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    I would bet you good money that socialist is just as derided a status among Trumpers as gay man or liberal woman.

    We are not going to win them over. No fucking way. We just need to get out the vote and there is no particular advantage that a moderate or progressive candidate has on that count. What energizes one part of our coalition will have the others trudging to the polls. While I personally think, we must fix health care and enact some green new deal, I seriously doubt we can pull it off, given the certainty of divided government and a giant deficit– and I think w might want to consider that we will be held accountable for that politically. I will not support Biden in the primary, but I can see why so many pragmatic voters do.

  157. iRobert
    Posted January 2, 2020 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    Julian Castro has dropped out of the race.

  158. iRobert
    Posted January 13, 2020 at 11:49 am | Permalink

    Senator Corey Booker is out of the race for president.

  159. iRobert
    Posted January 13, 2020 at 11:54 am | Permalink

    I’m not happy about Booker dropping out. He’s one of the few candidates I’d be motivated to actively campaign for in this thing.

    I’m ashamed to say, I still support the same candidate Wobblie does. I mean for US president. I won’t be voting in the next Iranian free, open, and totally legitimate elections.

  160. iRobert
    Posted January 13, 2020 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

    Who are you going to be voting for in the Iranian elections, Wobblie?

  161. Bob
    Posted January 13, 2020 at 7:44 pm | Permalink

    The DNC 2020 hit job on Bernie Sanders is well underway. Will the previously honorable Elizabeth Warren have the backbone to dispel the nasty lies designed to enflame the foaming at the mouth, anti-Bernie Bros, or will her desperation prevail?

  162. Posted January 13, 2020 at 11:13 pm | Permalink

    I assume this is what you are referring to, Bob.

    (From The Boston Herald)

  163. iRobert
    Posted January 14, 2020 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

    Tonight’s debate in Des Moines begins at 9pm.

    And Wobblie wants us to remember, we are at war and everything our Government tells us will be propaganda.
    Also, Wobblie has a news lash. Epstein did not kill himself.
    I might add, the Pope is Catholic and bears shit in the woods.

    Wobble and I are supporting Tulsi.

  164. Frosted Flakes
    Posted January 14, 2020 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

    I support Tulsi too by not making up lies about her. Of course because I am not a Democrat, my refusal to go along with obvious lies about Tulsi, just confirms how bad Tulsi must actually be. Similarly, Democrats would not make up bad lies if she was any good. She must be bad.

  165. iRobert
    Posted January 14, 2020 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

    According to Hillary, Jean, and Mark, Tulsi is Putin’s candidate. Strange that he was able to rig the 2016 Election for Trump, but couldn’t get Tulsi into this debate. Hmmmmmm.

  166. Posted January 15, 2020 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    From fivethirtyeight:

    Did Tuesday Night’s Democratic Debate Do Anything To Break The Logjam In Iowa?

  167. Posted January 16, 2020 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

    From fivethirtyeight:

    What The Sanders vs. Warren Battle Is Really About

  168. Jean Henry
    Posted January 17, 2020 at 6:32 am | Permalink

    The writer followed the Sanders campaign and showed up at one Warren rally. That article is about what the Sanders team thinks their rivalry is about. The writer wrongly misattributes Warren’s response to the leaked comment as her releasing the comment. The writer recently spoke at the AADL about how difficult it is for a woman to get elected president, but neglected to weigh sexism into the narrative, instead repeats the Sanders campaign talking points about the educated people she appeals to.

    The most interesting take I’ve heard is the Dem moderates released the info to get the two progressives sparring against one another.

    It’s interesting iRobert how your analysis leans towards brutal strategic motivation unless it concerns your candidates of choice. In which case they are angels being abused.

    I still don’t see how Warren’s team could have seen leaking the conversation re her electability as a win for them. Can you explain that to me?

  169. Wobblie
    Posted January 17, 2020 at 8:57 am | Permalink

    Aloha JH, wondering if CNN acknowledging the source of the article is Warren campaign has you rethinking any of your analysis. This is an obvious attack by ex-DNC staffers who work for Warren. Like you they are not supportive of “any blue will do”. As demonstrated by a year long hate/smear campaign against Tulsi, they would rather savage the Democratic Party than let a progressive win the nomination. Two smear attacks from the Warren campaign in the week before the debate demonstrates there desperation.

  170. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 17, 2020 at 10:47 am | Permalink

    Too bad Hill is too ill to get back in the ring. You have no viable candidates. She said she has been under tremendous pressure from a lot of people to run. That’s funny – I haven’t detected any kind of ground swell for her. Maybe it’s a ‘lot’ of extraordinarily powerful puppetmasters, not “a lot of voters” she is referring to.

  171. Lynne
    Posted January 17, 2020 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    After hearing what Sanders claims to have said, I can totally see how a misunderstanding is happening because what he claims to have said sounds a bit like he was questioning if a woman could get elected. And here is the thing, memory is fallible. People often remember conversations differently. So what? This should be a non-issue but alas, Bernie Bros are being their usual a-holes and making a mountain out of a molehill.

  172. Posted January 17, 2020 at 10:59 am | Permalink

    JH: “It’s interesting iRobert how your analysis leans towards brutal strategic motivation unless it concerns your candidates of choice. In which case they are angels being abused.”

    It’s not my analysis. It’s Clare Malone’s. I just thought it was interesting.

    And I’ve never suggested any angels were being abused. Maybe you haven’t been reading all my comments about Tulsi. I think her reactions suggest she is too naive. She’s not in any way what you’ve smeared her as being, however. But that’s the way you are.

  173. Wobblie
    Posted January 17, 2020 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

    Aloha Lynn, it is truly enlightening how you manage to scrap goat the same folks regardless of facts. Warren chose to air this “misunderstanding” a year after the fact and once she has fallen in the polls. It is the establishment Dems who are pulling out all the stops to keep progressive out of the party. Warren could have said it was a misunderstanding, could have blamed her staffers that the misunderstood. Instead she basically code to call Bernie a sexist liar on national TV and your now blaming Bernie supporters. Get a grip.

  174. Lynne
    Posted January 17, 2020 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    I think some of Bernie’s supporters act like they are in a cult. They can’t deal with ANY criticism of the man, however fair it might be.

  175. iRobert
    Posted January 17, 2020 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

    What was it exactly that Bernie supposedly said a year ago in a private conversation with Senator Warren?

  176. Lynne
    Posted January 17, 2020 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

    I dont’ have time to look up his exact response but what I recall him saying in response to this is that he never said a woman can’t be president but rather he said that Donald Trump is a misogynist who will weaponize gender in the general election.

  177. Wobblie
    Posted January 17, 2020 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

    Aloha driving down Cross St earlier and saw a car with the first Bernie 2020 bumper sticker. I pulled up next to the car and gave the driver the peace sign. She responded with a thumbs up.

  178. Lynne
    Posted January 18, 2020 at 2:06 am | Permalink

    That sounds very nice, wobblie.

  179. Jean Henry
    Posted January 19, 2020 at 6:27 am | Permalink

    Wobblie— where and when did CNN acknowledge Warrens campaign was the source?

    If so, my analysis would be that her campaign team is idiotic which may explain why she’s doing poorly.

  180. Wobblie
    Posted January 19, 2020 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    Aloha JH, CNN acknowledging the Warren campaign as the source has been reported by “The Hill” among others. I agree with you about Warrens campaign staff. At least half of her staffers worked for Hillary. They gave her such good advice in 2016 you know. It is the American way. It does not matter how wrong you are as long as you repeat the ruling elite line (such as war is humanitarian, neo-liberal trade policies are good,) you will get promoted. People who paid attention to who Warren was hiring could have told you this was coming.
    At least 10 of our Senators stood up for the people and voted against this latest eviscerating of worker, consumer and environmental rights called the USCM Free Trade Agreement. 38 Democrats joined TRUMP including Warren and Klobuchar, so much for the resistance. At least Sanders (and Schumer-surprises never cease) knows what Americans think of these trade deals.

  181. Jean Henry
    Posted January 19, 2020 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

    I need a link. I’ve seen a lot of stuff implying Warren’s campaign leaked it but most link back to the original CNN article which does not say that.

    If they did, it’s bad strategy.
    If Sanders campaign did it and then flipped responsibility onto Warren, that’s genius populist strategy harnessing sexism. Harnessing in particular the false assumption that somehow calling out someone’s sexism wins one any political advantage—- or rather that oppression offers any kind of political and other advantage. Something many ppl here assume regularly.

  182. iRobert
    Posted January 25, 2020 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    The next “debate” is scheduled for February 7th. It will be broadcast on ABC.

  183. iRobert
    Posted February 8, 2020 at 8:01 am | Permalink

    Who watched the debate last night?

  184. iRobert
    Posted February 9, 2020 at 6:35 am | Permalink

    …I guess no one watched it.

    What’s the deal with Tulsi’s campaign’s claims regarding The Caledonian Record‘s poll? Was there some sort of typo?

  185. Sad
    Posted February 9, 2020 at 8:17 am | Permalink

    I watched it.

    It’s always so sad to watch all the others kids beat up on the little gay boy. He he.d his own.


  186. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 9, 2020 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

    I watched some of it. You guys need someone of a certain stature to step in because nothing your party has put forward so far is getting any kind of traction. There is zero excitement, only dread.

    It’s not only that they know they will lose; their blockade against their own prosecution has been dismantled. The Mueller investigation and the impeachment farce was designed to delay the inevitable prosecution of their corrupt, law-breaking selves.

    Americans elected Trump on the chance that he could change the USA for the better. Now despite historic sabotage to his presidency by politicians and bureaucrats that you like he is doing it. Peace and stability are growing, the economy is growing…DJT will certainly win any fair election now if he won in 2016. What is your rationale for why he would not get increased support in 2020 after delivering what he promised in 2016?

  187. Posted February 9, 2020 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

    Remember. People like HW are unable to understand facts, logic, or reason and therefore will turn out to the polls to vote for Trump. He is the reason why the rest of us will have to work together in 2020.

  188. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 9, 2020 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

    Waahhh, I’m Lynne!

  189. Posted February 25, 2020 at 8:11 pm | Permalink

    Anybody watching the South Carolina debate?

    Watch Live:

  190. iRobert
    Posted February 25, 2020 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

    It’s chaos in Charleston. CBS has gone with the Jerry Springer format again.

  191. Posted February 25, 2020 at 9:01 pm | Permalink

    Senator Warren has really been going after Bloomberg.

    Watch Live:

  192. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 26, 2020 at 1:14 am | Permalink

    Just a thought!

  193. iRobert
    Posted February 26, 2020 at 6:46 am | Permalink

    That’s interesting, HW. I wonder if Sad’s seen that.

    It’s also interesting to me that Mayor Pete is generally not doing that well with Americans of African descent. I wonder if many are subconsciously or consciously picking up on the similarity and being put off by it.

    Years ago, Wayne Madsen did a whole thing on Obama’s upbringing and the indications that his parents may have been involved in the intelligence community, very covertly. These persisting theories about Mayor Pete being an intelligence asset make that connection even more interesting.

    This topic should set off certain highly stressed commenters here. I managed to get quite a strong and odd response from our favorite, just by asking if others agreed the universe/multiverse is infinite.

    I wonder if others here caught that response and were struck by the dramatic response.

  194. iRobert
    Posted February 26, 2020 at 6:49 am | Permalink

    Sorry. I should have said, “I wonder if others here caught that response and were struck by how dramatic and seemingly in appropriate it was.”

  195. iRobert
    Posted February 26, 2020 at 7:17 am | Permalink

    The blog’s been pretty quiet. I hope I didn’t enrage everybody by asking if they agreed the universe/multiverse is infinite. I realize now that it is an extremely upsetting question.

  196. Ann Coulter
    Posted February 26, 2020 at 7:36 am | Permalink

    Sen. Warren has convinced me that Bernie isn’t that worrisome. He’ll never get anything done. SHE’S the freak who will show up with 17 idiotic plans every day and keep everyone up until it gets done.

  197. iRobert
    Posted March 8, 2020 at 7:16 am | Permalink

    Kamala endorsed Biden.

  198. iRobert
    Posted March 8, 2020 at 8:59 am | Permalink

    It looks like sour grapes will be the greatest threat to a Democratic challenger in the race for the White House again this time around.

  199. iRobert
    Posted March 8, 2020 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    Anybody at the Bernie rally? Say “high” to Jeff Irwin.

  200. iRobert
    Posted April 8, 2020 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    Bernie Sanders finally dropped out of the presidential race.

  201. Jean Henry
    Posted April 8, 2020 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    About fucking time. Just end the damned primaries. Too risky.

  202. Cassandra
    Posted April 8, 2020 at 11:13 am | Permalink

    I am glad that Sanders isn’t going to repeat 2016 when he took all that bitterness all the way to the convention and beyond.

  203. Bob
    Posted April 8, 2020 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    You Walmart Dems got the candidate you wanted and deserve. Ol’ Bernie was too much of a misogynist and radical! He scareded the banks and the ladyfolk too! Jean and Lynne got their big bowl of safe oatmeal. Pretend like Grampa Joe didn’t speak at Strom Thurmonds memorial, campaign for Republicans here in Michigan, promise to slash social security and verbally rape Anita Hill. Four more years of DJT.

  204. iRobert
    Posted April 8, 2020 at 11:26 am | Permalink

    So I take it you’ll be voting third party then, Bob.

  205. Posted April 8, 2020 at 11:28 am | Permalink

    Bob, could you go over to Jeff Irwin’s house and do a welfare check on him. He looked pretty messed up last I saw him.

  206. Frosted Flakes
    Posted April 8, 2020 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    Has there ever been less excitement for a candidate? I have only met one senior citizens. who had Biden as his first choice.

  207. Jean Henry
    Posted April 8, 2020 at 11:37 am | Permalink

    Bob— didn’t support Biden. Voted Bernie in the primary. I felt sick doing so but I did it. I’ll be feeling the same way and voting Biden in the fall.

    Not sure what Lynne did but I remember she voted Bernie in the 2016 primary.

    You have a set of assumptions about us that you believe no matter what we say.

    Bernie lost even worse this go around. It wasn’t my doing. Or the DNC’s. He ran against the party in which he daughter the nomination. Not super smart.

  208. iRobert
    Posted April 8, 2020 at 11:38 am | Permalink

    2016 was the year that had the lowest levels of enthusiasm for either candidate. So, yes, FF.

  209. Jean Henry
    Posted April 8, 2020 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    We may very well get 4 more years of DJT. But that was always a strong possibility. It’s all about the economy. And if Biden figures out how to run a campaign in quarantine. So far? He hasn’t.

    FF— Dems clearly weren’t collectively enthusiastic about any of the candidates. They are enthusiastic about defeating Trump though. Extremely so. Sanders supporters will kick their wounds and get over his loss, like supporter of other candidates did before. By November, I’m hopeful we’ll be unified.

    The campaign is now against Trump. As it should have been All along.

    It’s still going to be close. It always is against an incumbents.

  210. iRobert
    Posted April 8, 2020 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

    Trump himself is the one campaigning hardest for Biden. Trump’s idiocy and inappropriateness does more for Biden than Biden could ever do for himself.

  211. iRobert
    Posted April 8, 2020 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

    I’m really enjoying the vastly improved air quality these days. I can thank the utter incompetence of the Trump administration for that. For that I might owe him my support.

  212. Bob
    Posted April 8, 2020 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

    I’m definitely not voting third party. I have never suggested any such thing. I think Biden is a Republican. Even less moderate a republican than Hillary, but it’s over. Trump has to go more than any candidate ever. Biden can possibly win if he just hides until November. Don’t open your mouth Joe. I’m begging you.

  213. iRobert
    Posted April 8, 2020 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    I’d prefer you support a third party candidate, Bob. It would be better if Jean does too.

  214. iRobert
    Posted April 8, 2020 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

    Jeff Irwin should stay high through November.

  215. Bob
    Posted April 8, 2020 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

    Is the the crocodile guy?

  216. iRobert
    Posted April 8, 2020 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    I wish.

  217. Sad
    Posted April 8, 2020 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    Ha – Ha

    All the Trump people I hang with love him more than ever.

    Just imagine how difficult it’s going to be to vote this fall.


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