To quote John Lydon, “Did you ever get the feeling that you’ve been cheated?“
I think, pretty soon, I’m going to stop talking about Trump’s hypocrisy, as I think it’s probably no longer all that effective as a tool to convince his supporters to rethink their alliances. Almost everyone capable of rational thought, I’m pretty sure, has already jumped ship by this point. And, for what it’s worth, a lot of folks, at least based on the most recent Fox News ratings and the polls we’re seeing out of Georgia, have already made the decision to walk away from Trump and the Republican party. I do, however, want to take one last crack at it, just in case anyone out there may still be on the fence.
Trump just released his budget, and, not surprisingly, he’s gone back on his campaign promise not to cut Medicaid. His new budget, if it passes the Republican Congress, would not just trim the health care program millions of Americans depend on, but slash it by a reported $800 billion. And, furthermore, Trump’s budget would cut $11 billion from public education, eliminating things like after-school programs that serve nearly 2 million children, most of whom are poor. And, not surprisingly, all these proposed cuts would land hardest on the working class men and women who put Trump into office.
Here, for those of you who are visual thinkers, is evidence of the above.
But, again, I don’t know that it really helps to point things like this out any more. I mean, we all know what’s happening by this point, right? We already have all of the evidence that we need. We’ve already seen Trump, who ran on the promise to provide health care for everyone, turn around and support a bill that would actually take health care from an estimated 24 million Americans. And that, as we all know, is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to his broken promises.
He promised to “drain the swamp” and purge lobbyists from the White House, but instead we’re reading today that he’s blocking an ethics probe into ex-lobbyists on his payroll. He told us that, if we elected him President, he’d be too busy working to play golf, and endlessly derided Obama for playing the game, but he took 16 trips to play golf in just his first 100 days in office, spending millions in tax payer money at his own resorts. And, of course, he said he’d share his tax returns with the American people, which he never did… The list goes on.
Trump has, without exaggeration, lied more and broken more promises in just four months than any president in United States history.
But, for some reason, people continue hold on. Maybe they’re stupid. Or maybe they just don’t want to face the fact that they’ve been duped. Or maybe they don’t give a shit about the lies, just so long as Trump makes good on the underlying promise to deliver smaller government and tilt the playing field in favor of older white men like myself. And, that, sadly, is what I think most of this is about. Those who are still with Trump, in spite of all the evidence, I suspect, don’t give a shit about the facts, and they never did. They didn’t care that Trump’s “show us your birth certificate” campaign was bullshit, and they didn’t give a damn about what really happened in Benghazi. All they care about… all they ever cared about… was putting Obama and Clinton in their places, and, for a minute, feeling better about their lot in life. For lack of a better analogy, I suppose you could say their ongoing support of Trump is essentially an instance of jury nullification, a situation where people are knowingly doing something they know to be wrong, but they’re doing so in order to rebalance what they see as a system that’s dangerously out of line. Let’s call it Democracy nullification. [Democracy Nullification: when voters select and support a leader contrary to the weight of evidence for reasons of fear and anxiety.] They’re wrong, of course, but it makes sense, doesn’t it?
The good news is, we now know where the bottom is. Thanks to Trump, and everything he’s done thus far to show us what he truly is, we now know how significant the problem is. To borrow a phrase, as his more reasonable supporters have abandoned him, we’ve drained the swamp, and we’re now looking at the creatures that are left… the some 38% of American voters who, according to polls, still approve of his performance.
But, who knows. A few more may decide to defect. By the time Nixon resigned from office in 1974, his approval rating had dropped to 24%. So maybe there’s hope that, with the water level in the swamp dropping, more will pull themselves out from the muck… Regardless, though, we can move forward with the 62% of American voters who know what in the fuck is going on. And that, I think, will be my approach from now on. Yes, I think it’s finally time for me to rapture away, and leave some of you behind.
Oh, and one last thing. Trump’s proposed budget also cuts approximately $73 billion from Social Security, another program he assured us would be safe in his hands.
.@realDonaldTrump promised not to cut Social Security. I’ve looked at the budget, & here it is: $73B in Social Security cuts. pic.twitter.com/9QYxEwUPxs
— Elizabeth Warren (@SenWarren) May 23, 2017
55 Comments
I’ve never even started trying to convince them. We have to go for people in the “middle” (whatever that is), people who didn’t care enough to vote, etc.
Sorry to keep beating a dead horse here (that’s an awful metaphor…what’s a better one?) but I work with some of these voters and they DO. NOT. CARE. The black guy is out, the woman is out, done, fin, end. Their time to shine in all of their misogyny and bigotry and hate is back as far as they are concerned. Like my Trump voting coworker, who literally made fun of gay people at a meeting. Would he have done that before? I don’t know but he hasn’t in the three years I’ve worked with him. But last week he was all up in it. You’ll never convince that idiot to be anything other than a Quark-looking motherfucker red hat. Don’t waste your time, friend.
Trump is of the age to still be part of the generation of salespeople for whom puffery was a way of life. He should have been part of the transitional generation, as I was, who fought against that way of being. We brought about “truth in advertising,” “truth in lending,” and other ethical ways of being. No, the culture never completely changed, but Trump never had to learn any other way of being. He tells everyone that which will have the greatest possible positive impact for the moment and then with no trace of recognition, negate all of it once he has achieved his personal goal(s). He sees no contradiction in this, no more than the used car salesperson of the 50s or 60s did.
More evidence that all aspects of the Trump agenda– protectionism, anti-immigration, anti-social welfare benefits, climate denial etc etc– are all tanking. The US I guess is finally realizing the emperor has no clothes.
https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/5/22/15672530/opinion-polls-liberal-immigration-trade-role-government-aca
It’s hard not to indulge ideas of Rodger Ailes as the devil who has been vanquished. I’m trying to figure out who Ailes Shakespearean equivalent is… there must be one.
I hope everyone on the left will stop talking about regressive protectionism too.
The working class were never truly United. Why? racism. You want a United working class? Start dealing with racism head on. The labor nostalgia on the left, like all historic nostalgia omits many pertinent details. Globalism is the way forward. We need to do it better. But there ain’t no stopping it nor should we.
Sorry for digression into the hypocrisy on the left too. False equivalence. But the point is we all need to wake the fuck up, deal with reality, preserve what works, and fix what’s broken. Revolutions suck. I don’t care what side you are on. And no, I’m not for the status quo.
I think we all have learned the past few months however, that some of our institutions matter and some of our bureaucrats are honorable devoted people committed to their work and to change. I think we have learned that we are all necessary, especially those career govt workers radicals are inclined to dismiss.
Ha Ha. Last post on hypocrisy and broken promises of Trump. Let’s count the days until you break that promise, you hypocrite.
4 months and Trump hasn’t accomplished everything he promised yet. Obama had 8 years and yet failed to accomplish many of his campaign promises. I thought he said he would close Gitmo down.
EOS, you’re an idiot. While you’re correct that Obama failed to deliver on some of his promises, Trump is delivering on the OPPOSITE of what he promised. To pretend he didn’t just say all that stuff because it’s what people wanted to hear is delusional.
Do me a favor and read about false equivalency, cognitive dissonance, and confirmation bias. Or don’t. I know those are some big words that radical libtard elites use, but I’m not going to apologize for going to school.
Clean air and clean water are for the rich.
AP: “Trump budget slashes money of clean air and water programs”
Read more:
https://www.apnews.com/51e90205aec7448ab4b4ff85a2290d35/Trump-budget-slashes-money-of-clean-air-and-water-programs
Dontfeedthetroll.jpg
From The New York Times Opinion Section: “He oversold what he could deliver because he had no idea what would be required to deliver it, nor did he care. He told you what you wanted to hear so that he could get what he wanted to have.”
With social media and equal access to bullshit for all, you will never convert those voters. Much different back when you had three credible networks and major media titans.
We voted for Obama because he was going to end the wars–stupid me. He was going to close Gitmo–stupid me. I didn’t vote for Obama to do many of the things he has–ie. executive action against American citizens (at least two of our citizens were killed by Obama without any form of due process, simply murdered), universal surveillance of , well everyone. Not to mention giving the banks and the wall street speculators all the cover they need.
Hypocrisy is the essence of our politics. It seems quite clear they have neutered Trump and he will do what ever is necessary to stay in office–including making Russia our enemy–WHY. Oh because they HACKED the election. What bs. It didn’t take any Russian propaganda to convince those of us on the left who did not vote for Hillary, not to vote for Hillary.
And up can see from the vote totals that it was the “ultra leftist” who voted for Jill who tilted the election. Just like with Raph. Ignore us and this is what you get. Pander to the right to get votes–and we will reject your candidate.
Slow down. Nobody should call anyone “stupid” until after Tony reads the transcripts.
I think going forward, the Green Party should just be ignored. Their purpose as far as I am concerned, is to keep the far left from havingt oo much influence in the party. . They keep the Democratic Party from being too crazy. Yes, they can be harmful in a close election such as this most recent one and in 2000 but they are so nuts that for every vote picked up among them, more are probably lost in the center. The best strategy is to point out the reality that their approach not only fails to move the country to the left but it actually does the opposite and thus brings real and concrete harm to our nation and many of her citizens
Re: ” It didn’t take any Russian propaganda to convince those of us on the left who did not vote for Hillary, not to vote for Hillary.”
There is evidence that Russia played the far left in ways similar to how they played the right. From planted fake news stories to actively supporting Jill Stein, they had their hands in it. But of course no one will admit they were played any more than EOS and other Trump supporters do.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/guess-who-came-dinner-flynn-putin-n742696
Both groups are unlikely to change their tune and imho, no more energy should be taken up trying to convince them. A better approach is to ignore them and work on groups more likely to vote left, even if centrist left
Re Gitmo– Facing obstruction from congress on closing Gitmo, Obama with Eric Holder began the arduous years long practice of having almost every prisoner processed for removal individually, one by one. 241 of them. A few were transferred to military prisons. The 41 who remain had no place to go and were not accepted by the military here. He worked hard to get them our of there. He did not make it across the finish line, because he did not have absolute power. He had to work within the system, you idiots. (seriously tired of you all repeating political propaganda with no context) Now Trump is promising to fill Gitmo with immigration detainees. It sucks. This country sucks. But Obama tried to fulfill his promise.
Re the wars. He did not promise to end someone else’s civil war. He promised to remove ground troops, and he did. He also said he would at first expand our presence in Afghanistan. And then everyone was mad at him when he did.
I did not support a bunch of Obama’s actions, but I supported him. He was the best president of my lifetime by leagues.
There is not a better alternative. And there is simply no comparing him to Trump, the worst president America has ever known, period.
I’m so tired of the ignorance displayed on these comment threads. It’s all political posturing without context or any attempt to learn detail that does not confirm one’s bias.
Politics in a democracy is not winner take all. And yet so many commenters here talk like it is– relentlessly. I’m so glad none of you are in office at least.
I often wonder how much more Obama could have accomplished if voter turnout on the left had been better in the 2010 midterms.
Sure. Obama gets a pass because he faced obstruction from Congress, but Trump gets four months to fulfill all his campaign promises. Confirmation bias anyone? Anyone who doesn’t agree in lockstep is a bigot, racist, or misogynist and y’all scratching your heads as to why they are not jumping on your bandwagon. Go figure.
Y’all, ESO? I reckon you say you reckon so these days too!!!
And yet, EOS, the Gallup poll I posted shows that people ARE jumping onto our band wagon increasingly. What Trump is doing is actually burying your regressive social and economic and faux-scientific positions forever. Trump is destroying the conceits of the Tea Party and Christian conservative wing of the GOP. They are being shown to be regressive and ignorant when placed on the world stage. Give him more time and he will bury the right even more.
The establishment GOP are geniuses at strategy and so have gerrymandered themselves into a position where their power and influence is out of scale with the actual popularity of their positions among the public. So they will no doubt hang around awhile, unless they piss of Dems and centrists enough that they go to the polls in large numbers.
Just my opinion, but, I believe a very low percentage of people like Trump or ever liked Trump. His supporters just hate him a lot less than they hate Hillary and many of her more vocal supporters. We all know that a lot of you instantly jump to the conclusion that the hatred grew out of irrational bigotry, sexism, and racism. Maybe rethink this assumption? They hate many of you because they believe many of you are full of shit (and arrogant on top of that). The goal should be to be less full of shit and less arrogant than someone like Anne Coulter. Can it be done? The bar is pretty low, but even so, I have my doubts.
The revolution needs to occur within the Democratic Party. If the election of Trump does not force self examination I don’t know what will.
I personally think the confluence of events in the last thirty decades led for a search for something more traditional in a candidate…people are tired of change and when Christie got dderailed there was no republican Governor who could win…the Denmocrats fiscally are often quite naive…it is not a right nor a particlarly good plan to think a person’s home via an homeequity loan is the way to finance college. Republicans often take advantage of Democrats, unforunately and do them terribly wrong on very large scales, especially to people who live in cities.see our Fearles Governor and the Republican legislature for further elucidation on this pont,. some of the worst legislation ever written at the state level occurred these last six years right here in Michigan and continues.
You know what I really like about Donald Trump? HE SIGNS THINGS!!!!IN FRONT OF PEOPLE! ON CAMERA!!!that is a rare thing to have happen…none of this electronic signature bs…
So this is what I think Trump does…everything is on the table to go..everything..he tells everyone that..and then he waits and sees who really wants what and why…and then he asks Congress to vote…and sits back and sees what happened…Data collection..and he making Congress responsible for deciding for themselves what they want to vote for.
We all know that a lot of you instantly jump to the conclusion that the hatred grew out of irrational bigotry, sexism, and racism. Maybe rethink this assumption?
The problem actually is that the assumption is not wrong. There is reams of social research which actually lends weight to the argument that those who voted for Trump really did vote based on irrational bigotry, sexism, and especially racism. That is the problem. Other than continuing to fight such things, what can the left do when people will vote based on such things even though it will harm them? Rethinking the assumption doesn’t change reality.
I might also add that if arrogance were a deterrent to getting elected, we wouldn’t have Donald Trump as president. I feel that the problem was more arrogance coming from women and minorities. The problem is that *any* celebration of an advancement in rights or societal position is perceived by as arrogance. They don’t like it when anyone who isn’t a white man acts entitled to anything, even human rights to which they actually are entitled. You see this of course quite a lot on the right but sadly, on the left too. What do you think all this trash talk of “establishment democrats” is all about and why does it seem to correlate with the rise in power in the party of women and minorities? All the soul searching in the world on the part of the Democratic party will not help when the problem is that one party has gotten very good at playing to the racism and sexism of white people. Or maybe it will. Maybe it is what we need to know so that we can continue to work hard to change things?
I think a lot of people voted for him because they thought he would be pro business.
Ad much as I liked Obama and I even liked Joe Biden, I never thought either one of them were spectacular when it come to money mattters.
I think you think people have to lean on human rights when women and minorities assert themselves is a bit misguided and leans toward a violation of civil rights perhaps…the bigger issue with human rights these days revolve aorund Least restrrictive environment for everyone…so when the legislature wrties really awful laws that experimwnt with a whole citys children and not their own, they dont want to end up in jail for having vvoting yes on the school bill and so on…..and they will need human rights to be respected to have that happen.
Lynne,
Could you share 2 or 3 of the most convincing studies that address this issue?
http://www.salon.com/2017/04/17/liberals-were-right-racism-played-a-larger-role-in-trumps-victory-than-income-inequality-and-authoritarianism/
FF, there are plenty of studies on elections. I do not have time, unfortunately, to do a lot of research into studies I have seen months ago. However, the most recent one was one referenced in an Atlantic article earlier this month
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/white-working-class-trump-cultural-anxiety/525771/
Don’t worry though FF, if you need more studies than that, they are available
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=racism+in+voting
Oh and if you want to see the ones about sexism
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=racism+in+voting
And for those who think the far left can win elections without “establishment democrats”, here are some interesting primary statistics that suggest otherwise
http://pos.org/democratic-primary-voter-demographic-shifts-and-candidate-coalitions/
I think many Trump voters are racist. But then I think lots of liberals hold racist assumptions as well and studies show we all display implicit bias. I’m not impressed that many people on this site are terribly interested in the significant work involved in assessing their own bias, so calling Trumpers racist is not terribly effective in a post about hypocrisy.
Certainly many Trumpers hated Obama for openly and coded racist reasons. And they supported Trump as the antidote to the social liberalism Obama embodied. None of that means other Americans are not biased. or that most of us care to do much about racial re-segregation or the education gap or affordable housing access etc innoyr own communities. The outcomes speak volumes.
But back to Trump voters. In the end the Trumpers I speak to don’t love him (but they HATE us– not personally just politically); they voted for acdisruption of the status quo. They felt ignored. They had been led to believe that special interest groups were stealing their piece of the pie and garnering too much political attention. They would like to be heard and shown respect by the elite– including us. Most don’t expect much from government. They thought Trump might help in some ways. Disrupt things. ‘Couldn’t get worse’ was a phrase I heard a lot from social conservatives and white working class. Trump on the campaign trail seemed to hear them. That’s all they wanted. They distrust institutions because they only see how they are failed, not how they are served by them.
In all that they don’t seem that far off from many liberals I know. They just are invested in different political solutions. Many studies show your political viewpoint is largely a manifestation of subculture and home environment. Their identity is invested in a different paradigm. There greatest distrust is with The State, with government v the corporations that employ them.
I looked quite a bit at real differentials among Trump voters. There aren’t many beyond geography. But, no matter education level or wealth, they are more in debt and more sick. They like many of us are frustrated with the state of health care. And they know it’s limitations. Same with the credit banking system. But they don’t believe in our solutions. They have been led to believe big government and soacial interest groups are to blame for those institutions that prey on the weakest in our culture. I think they hoped Trump might help some. Theycarexsurevthat obama didn’t help them– which isn’t true but that’s what they were told and it’s what they belueve deeply.
The impulse to throw the bastards out is not unique to the right. They were just more strategically successful. They don’t even represent anything close to the majority viewpoint. But they know how to align and vote in unison– unlike the left. And they are willfully Ng to fame the system so long as they win. I just think Trump voters hate us a lot. And we probably need to get a little more compassionate and less smug without ceding to racism and sexism and other kinds of bigotry. And that’s not easy.
Useful study:
http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21710265-local-health-outcomes-predict-trumpward-swings-illness-indicator
The left can start traversing the division between left and right by understanding the thevtught really do believe their platform offers real solutions to persistent problems.
They aren’t evil. Or at least not any more than any one else. Delusion affects everyone to some degree. delusional–Isn’t that one of your favorite accusations, FF? What are your delusions?
Jean,
I haven’t read those articles yet, but,I firmly believe that I will read the supplied articles with an open mind and I will become convinced that the primary reason we have Trump as president, in this time in history, is racism , sexism and bigotry. There must be a delusion in there somewhere, right?
Seriously though, I admire your balanced treatment of most subjects. Thank you.
Oh. I absolutely agree that there is plenty of racism and sexism to go around. I also agree that most of us, to varying degrees, are not always willing to do the work necessary to confront our biases, especially implicit ones. We are all often hypocritical too which is one reason it is important to point out hypocrisy when we see it. It is always easier to see hypocrisy in others than it is to see it in ourselves.
http://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/charlie-daniels/charlie-danielss-open-letter-chuck-schumer-youve-opened-pandoras-box?ref=yfp
So I know some people thought Director Comet threw the election.
I think Hillary Clinton lost when she told Trump he was. in alternate reality while on stage.with him..that is possibly one of the most false and insulting things any human being could say to another. It is always factually untrue ..there they are,on stage next to each other and she goes ahead and says that to him. With all it implies..it was just terrible and unforgivable..nobody should ever say that to another person, ever
.
How would you rank,
“I’m sorry I have to keep saying this, but he lives in an alternate reality.”
in comparison to
“The only card [Hillary Clinton] has is the woman’s card. She’s got nothing else to offer and frankly, if Hillary Clinton were a man, I don’t think she’d get 5 percent of the vote. The only thing she’s got going is the woman’s card, and the beautiful thing is, women don’t like her.”
You know on the meanness scale?
um …hers was worse…not sayng he was being nice at all.
Lynne,
I am not sure the study you linked proves what is so obvious to you. From the study you offered:
“It is notable that many attitudes and attributes identified as possible explanations for Trump’s support among white working-class voters were not significant independent predictors. Gender, age, region, and religious affiliation were not significant demographic factors in the model. Views about gender roles and attitudes about race were also not significant. It is also notable that neither measure of civic engagement—attendance at civic events or religious services—proved to be a significant independent predictor of support for Trump.”
“Cultural anxiety” amongst white working class was predictive of Trump support. I am curious, when you read the awesomely-empty-category “cultural anxiety amongst white working class”–what sort of characteristics do you import to fill that category?
FF– I invite you to read the links. One addresses the question you asked– racsim as a factor in the election. I did not hold forth on that. Just provided a link (one among many, as Lynne showed) as requested. The other link points to the differential being the overall health of Trump voters. Nothing about racism or sexism. I do try to keep an open mind. I can’t deny the impact of racism on American life, because it’s in the numbers– undeniably so. I can’t deny sexism, because it’s within my personal experience, as well as in the numbers and, critically, in the denial of the meaning of numbers from the CDC like 1 in 5 women sexually assaulted by the time they reach 24, or the domestic violence numbers, etc etc. If 1 in 5 college freshman had their laptops stolen, the culture would be up in arms. Racism and sexism are real pervasive problems. I like to think and write about them because they are important factors in almost every part of our culture and political life. They are not the only factor. And I never ever said they are.
I know I have said this before to you, but feminism is a form of critique. It;s one way of seeing things. It’s not ideology because it never presumes to be the only way to see things AND it is not prescriptive about how to be or how to move forward. People are weird and defensive about racism and sexism, and that, as they say, is their problem.
PS “Cultural anxiety” amongst white working class is a)not economic anxiety b)not political anxiety c) not psychological anxiety. It is anxiety about their ‘culture’ being remaindered within the rise of multi-culturalism, as America becomes a minority majority country. And one they mean by culture is in part guns, yes, but it is also white power. And male power (and yes some women will fight to retain male power). No they do not have a lot of power culturally, but they do have some power over some segments of society– People of Color. And they have heard that those people are stealing their money via public benefit programs etc. They have heard that those people are responsible for the drug epidemic in this country. That those people make health care more expensive etc. The news they watch is racist. It plays to their anxiety that they will soon be in the bottom of society. That they will soon have no one to look down upon. It’s not an unfounded anxiety.
I am not suggesting that rich white liberal people do not also look down on poor people of color, and poor people generally. I’m just saying they don’t do so with as much anxiety that they may have to surrender their privilege to them. Although, some days, on this site, I wonder.
Jean,
I started to look at the link you provided but I could tell that it was much more complicated than the link provided by Lynne. I will get to those. It it is going to be awhile….To be clear, I, of course am aware that sexism and racism was at play in the election of Trump. I am just trying to figure out how sexism and racism has, in the minds of many, become the ultimate, super convenient and ultra easy tool for explaining everything–including the election of Trump.
I think ‘cultural anxiety’ is a form of racism. In general the term ‘racism’ is too broad and this helps separate this form of racism from other forms of racism which are not practiced by most Trump supporters. I think the survey in question kind of touched on the feeling of loss of privilege and status I have been feeling from the right ever since Obama was elected.
Why does it explain the election of Trump? Maybe because the GOP, beginning with their “southern strategy” has been campaigning on a racist platform for years but Trump really has taken them further in that direction than any candidate before. Trump won with rhetoric that he was going to put non-white people and women not married to white men in their place. It was central to his campaign. It wasn’t just “in play” during the election. He was all about promising privilege to his supporters
And that is the problem. They have proven that the way to win elections is to promise to restore privilege but there is no way for Democrats to do the same thing without losing their base of people who are not white men or married to white men. Well. Not exactly. I think if the Democratic party ran on a platform of privileging women and minorities using the same kind of dog whistle rhetoric the GOP uses, they might get enough people in those classes out to vote. Personally, I prefer a more egalitarian approach.
Wait……with respect for everyone on here. I have been gone for awhile. But….are you guys still talking about the election!?
” I am just trying to figure out how sexism and racism has, in the minds of many, become the ultimate, super convenient and ultra easy tool for explaining everything–including the election of Trump.”
maybe if you don’t make up broad brush bullshit, you won’t have to rack your brain explaining it.
FF– because the data does not back up the other assumptions of the left. In particular that the average Trump voter is white working class and uneducated and doing worse now than in 2008 when Obama was elected. Some things are untrue. It is true that the states that swung the electoral college victory to Trump included some white working class Reagan Democrats who had an outsized impact this go around. They were strategically key this go around, but they are not the only demographic that’s important. Bernie’s primary loss shows that. It’s also true that the HRC campaign tragically ignored those states and voters. It’s not however true that securing the votes of that very small but influential set of voters is worth alienating core Dem constituents for. We could have won some of them over. We didn’t even try.
Citywatch– We are talking about the Trump voters here. In order to talk about the Trump voter we have to talk about the election that determined who the hell they were. That election was likely the most significant in recent US history. People will be talking about it forever. And rightly so.
FF– re your ‘ultra easy tool’ comment– that is absolutely your projection. To repeat again:
“i know I have said this before to you, but feminism is a form of critique. It;s one way of seeing things. It’s not ideology because it never presumes to be the only way to see things AND it is not prescriptive about how to be or how to move forward. People are weird and defensive about racism and sexism, and that, as they say, is their problem.”
I have copied it so every time you assert that social justice based critique is trying to dominate discourse as a means of dismissing it entirely– as what? Overly emotional? Irrational? Crazy bitch talk?– I can Just copy paste.
Dear commenters,
On behalf of the “1 percent,” thank you SO MUCH for continuing to obsess about what are (ultimately) mostly superficial differences among yourselves, while failing to understand the magnitude of the genuine interests you share.
Most of all – thanks for failing to recognize that you actually have a common enemy.
As long as you continue seeing yourselves first-and-foremost as male, female, black, white, brown, young, old, gay, straight, urban, rural, blue collar, white collar, etc., and squabbling about these differences – instead of acting collectively as citizens who are tired of ceding their hard-won democratic rights to shady billionaires and multinational corporations – we know our “divide and conquer” plan has been effective, and that we will continue to win!
Keep up the good work!
– The Plutocrats.
Yes, it is obvious that the majority at the bottom need to unite but the million dollar question is how to accomplish that. How to unite when transitioning to a more egalitarian society?
We live in an era where a group of people have had real privilege relative to other Americans and all Americans have had global privilege relative to most of the rest of the world. Both of those kinds of privilege are in decline and those who formally had the privilege are feeling its loss. To them, it doesnt feel like a loss of privilege because they never acknowledged the privilege in the first place. It just feels like loss.
So how to convince those people that uniting as equals is the best way forward?
That is what a lot of this squabbling is about and while it can be unpleasant and ugly, it is necessary. These divisions run deep and they arent going away overnight but as a nation we are making progress. Slooooooow progress but progress nonetheless.
Dear Richie Rich– pretending the only people engaged in the oppression of POC and women are the 1% is patent bullshit. Running a common enemy up a flag pole does temporarily unify the people but unlearning centuries of oppression involves some self-scrutiny as well. I’m on the left precisely because of its capacity to assess its own impact, because it cares. Beyond that fighting consolidation of power in any form requires strategy and political reform that is not just ideological. Redistricting reform is necessary because the GOP managed tpbout strategize us while we were busy being righteous. Now they have political control they have not earned via policy in large swathes of the country including MI.
Also, to be clear, you can’t pay for expansive social benefits without wealth creation in any nation, so the wealthy aren’t going anywhere. They just need to play nice.
Jean:
I don’t think you are a “crazy bitch”. Where do you get that idea? Again, I admire how balanced your approach is to most topics….
Lynne:
I am wondering: Can you give examples of rhetoric Trump used that support your claim that Trump is against interracial dating/marriage and that he wants to put people involved in interracial relationships “in their place”?
FF, you might want to work on your reading comprehension. I never once said that Trump is against interracial dating/marriage. I said, “Trump won with rhetoric that he was going to put non-white people and women not married to white men in their place.”
For instance, when he talks about deporting immigrants, he isn’t talking about immigrants married to white men is he? I can go into it more if you would like. How his policies happen to favor white men over everyone else and how much of rhetoric, especially on the subjects of immigration and being tough of “thugs”, really feeds into that platform.
I don’t have time to do a whole lot of research at the moment but I am sure a quick googling of things he has said will turn up plenty of statements and things he has said that support a world view where rich white men are at the top, followed by women married to rich white guys (including interracial marriages), and so on. Our social hierarchies are very complex and involve intersectionality but like it or not, in the history of our country, white, cisgendered, heterosexual, ablebodied, wealthy, born into high social class, Christian men have been at the top of the heap. That is slowly changing. However, if you look at the big picture, it is pretty obvious that Donald Trump’s rhetoric supports keeping that hierarchy. What do you think he means when he talks about “make our country great again” and then advances policies that hurt the people at the bottom of that hierarchy more than those at the top? That is all about keeping people in their place.
Lynne,
I don’t think we can attribute the misunderstanding to poor reading comprehension on my part. You are the one who “carved out” the class of people that Trump supposedly promised to “put in place”.
The class, to be “put in place”, according to you, consists of a) non-white people and b) women not married to white men.
So, a) leaves out everyone except for white men and white women and,
b) refines a) to also leave out [white] women who are not married to white men. In other words, I took your words to mean that the class of people that Trump wanted to “put in place” consists of all people of color and white women who are: 1) unmarried (gay or straight) or; 2) married to someone other than a white man (gay or straight).
Apparently we had a misunderstanding. Correct me if I am wrong. You wanted to say: Trump won with rhetoric that he was going to put everyone “in their place” except for white men and their spouses (regardless of the race of the white man’s spouse but–I am guessing here–the spouse of the white male needs to be female).
If I have it right, then we should try to compile examples of Trump’s campaign rhetoric that reveals his promise and desire to put at least some of these different classes of people of “in place”. Do you have any good examples?
Trump won with rhetoric that he was going to put everyone “in their place” except for white men and their spouses (regardless of the race of the white man’s spouse but–I am guessing here–the spouse of the white male needs to be female).
Yes, that is accurate.
Before we go looking for quotes, may I suggest you read something by George Lakoff? He explains the differing fundamental political philosophies of each side by saying we base our political beleifs to some degree on cultural metaphors of family with the right being based on an authoritarian family structure with moral hierarchies.
Here he explains the moral hierarchy of this kind of thinking which is often reflected in the policies Trump promotes. Look at his policies and read the CBO reports about how these policies affect different groups of people
https://georgelakoff.com/2016/03/02/why-trump/
The strict father logic extends further. The basic idea is that authority is justified by morality (the strict father version), and that, in a well-ordered world, there should be (and traditionally has been) a moral hierarchy in which those who have traditionally dominated should dominate. The hierarchy is: God above Man, Man above Nature, The Disciplined (Strong) above the Undisciplined (Weak), The Rich above the Poor, Employers above Employees, Adults above Children, Western culture above other cultures, Our Country above other countries. The hierarchy extends to: Men above women, Whites above Nonwhites, Christians above nonChristians, Straights above Gays.