We are the shithole nation

In the words of the Atlantic’s Annie Lowrey, “Ending the pandemic would have been the single best thing the federal government could have done to preserve the country’s wealth, health, and economic functioning. The Trump administration, in its hubris, obstinacy, and incompetence, failed to do it.” Donald Trump not only failed to end the pandemic, but he actively fought against public health experts, defying the CDC, encouraging conservative activists to “liberate” their states, slowing down testing, and even going so far as to politicize the wearing of masks.

And, as a result, the United States, with just 5% of the global population, currently has 25% of the COVID-19 deaths. And it would appear that we’re just getting started. Six states set record highs for new Coronavirus infections today alone, making this our worst single day for new infections since the disease first reached our shores. What’s more, it would appear as though it’s moving into younger populations.

As other nations are getting COVID-19 behind them, and moving beyond the pandemic, here in America we’re discussing the very real possibility that Arizona may not have enough hospital beds to care for the sick. And, in spite of this, we’re still not taking coordinated federal action to ramp up a comprehensive testing program and stop the spread of the disease. In fact, word just came out that the Trump administration will be cutting funding for drive-through testing facilities.

Here’s how we compare, as of today, with the nations we once considered to be our peers.

Back in May, I posted the following question on social media: “Serious question. If we continue down the ‘we’re not going to even try to contain this’ path, will Americans no longer be able to travel internationally without 14 day quarantines?” Well, it looks as though we now have the answer. According to new reporting out of Brussels, the European Union is considering the barring of visitors from the United States starting on July 1. Looking at the above graphs, that shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone, but the folks at Fox News are up in arms, demanding that the Europeans remember what our grandparents did to help them during WWII, and suggesting this has more to do with the politics of power than it does with public health. The truth, however, is that we deserve this fate… Let’s not forget that this was the Trump administration brain trust that decided that it was safe to reopen the economy. The President’s daughter was on the committee, but not a single scientist, let alone an epidemiologist.

I take no pleasure in this. I don’t like the fact that I’m raising my family in a nation in decline — in a pariah nation. But I do see the humor in it. For all of Trump’s railing against “shithole” countries, and the right’s fear mongering about caravans of diseased would-be immigrants making their way to America, it only seems fitting that we’d now find ourselves on the other side, trying desperately to make the case that we really aren’t as diseased, dangerous and insane as we appear. But all the evidence points to the fact that we are. And we’d be well-served to accept it, and act accordingly. We need to do some serious introspection, and accept, regardless of our finger pointing at others, that we’ve been the shithole country all along.

And it’s not just the fact that we did nothing to stop the spread of COVID-19. It’s that we did so willfully. It’s not that we didn’t have the financial wherewithal to take action, or the ability to put plans in motion, like almost every other advanced nation on earth did. It’s that we actively fought against doing the right, responsible and intelligent thing, choosing instead to focus on blaming others for our plight, and engage in magical thinking.

60 years of Republican manipulation, I’m afraid to say, have brought us to point where we are no longer a force for good in the world, but a country to be fearful of. We are stupid, cruel and violent. And we deserved to be shunned.

For those of you who don’t accept the truth of what I’m saying, here’s an example from earlier today.

And here is another.

Yes, I know that there is still reason to be hopeful. I know that there is a strong and growing resistance. I know that young people are in the streets. I’m just disheartened today, thinking about how we got to this place, and the decades of intellectual rot that we have to contend with. This didn’t just happen overnight. The disinformation, fear mongering, and racism that we turned a blind eye toward all of these years has brought us to this point, pushing us down the slippery slope toward authoritarian idiocracy. And we have a generation of unbelievably hard work ahead of us to make things right.

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113 Comments

  1. iRobert
    Posted June 24, 2020 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

    30% or more of the population doesn’t know what competence is, looks like, or what difference it makes.

  2. Sad
    Posted June 24, 2020 at 10:31 pm | Permalink

    This is going to get ugly.

    Did I miss the exposition on the Kale?

  3. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 24, 2020 at 10:58 pm | Permalink

    Ben Collins must be as much of a fuckin’ dork as Baynard. “Level 1 Qanon stuff”! Derp.

  4. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 24, 2020 at 11:00 pm | Permalink

    Oh, yeah. I’ve seen that guy say the most asinine shit about Q but he has no idea what Q writes. Just like Barky boy.

  5. Anonymous
    Posted June 24, 2020 at 11:06 pm | Permalink

    Do enlighten us, HW. Tell us again about how Hillary feasted on babies at Comet Pizza and how Trump is going to lead the child sex slaves to freedom. Teach us, oh master. Interpret the prophetic texts.

  6. Anonymous
    Posted June 24, 2020 at 11:13 pm | Permalink

    More from this month’s Q poster girl about the deep state that pedophiles.

    https://twitter.com/rexchapman/status/1275912010555932672?s=21

  7. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 24, 2020 at 11:56 pm | Permalink

    To tell you again about Clinton at Comet Ping Pong I would have had to tell you once. Go back and read what I have actually said about it.

    If you don’t do your due diligence on what you are ridiculing what makes you think you know what you are talking about? You are too chickenshit to find out what these people put on their own social media. You are nothing. You believe “articles” that are written by people who know nothing about what pizzagate is and what Q is.

  8. Wobblie
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 6:43 am | Permalink

    Aloha I thought that Atlantic article painted an unreasonably rosy view of the future. It pretended that the Trumpvirus was not in fact getting much worse. It made no mention of the 4 trillion in wealth that was transferred to the 1%. Our psychopathic leader knows that the economic elite are the ones he needs to serve. That is why he needs to look tough, With mindless Qanon minions, and racist thugs embracing the death cult we are heading towards worst case dystopia.

  9. Max
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 7:34 am | Permalink

    The mere fact that Trump refuses to wear a mask is literally killing people. Testing and tracing is not progressing rapidly enough. We’re still in the first wave. I’d be willing to bet the Feds have not stockpiled enough PPE for a second wave. We are truly screwed and it is 100% this administrations fault. This is the Nero playing violin as Rome burns moment of the Trump presidency.

  10. John Brown
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 7:42 am | Permalink

    In the second civil war we need to learn from the mistakes of appeasement that were made last time. Turns out you can’t meet racial terrorist halfway. Same with brain damaged conspiracy nuts. Stephen Miller must be thrilled with covidiots further destabilizing the US, thinking it makes an overt fascist takeover possible. But like all delusional traitors, he’ll get strung up too.

  11. A reader in Madrid
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 9:05 am | Permalink

    There was just a special insert (a whole section) in our Madrid newspaper on Sunday basically laying out how the United States “blew it.” The US will be on that travel ban to the EU with countries like Iran and Brazil.

  12. Lynne
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    Yeah, Reader in Madrid, but to be fair, we have been a laughing stock since 2016 anyways.

    Alas, most Trump supporters aren’t sophisticated enough for international travel so this will not affect them at all.

  13. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    “In the second civil war we need to learn from the mistakes of appeasement that were made last time. Turns out you can’t meet racial terrorist halfway. Same with brain damaged conspiracy nuts. Stephen Miller must be thrilled with covidiots further destabilizing the US, thinking it makes an overt fascist takeover possible. But like all delusional traitors, he’ll get strung up too.”

    Nothing you say ever amounts to anything.

  14. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 10:43 am | Permalink

    It must feel awful to rage and rage and just seeethe with hate but nothing ever comes of what you say.

  15. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    “Trump supporters aren’t sophisticated enough for international travel”

    The biggest barrier to international travel is wealth. People get better at traveling abroad as they do it more. The cost of international travel is a huge barrier to doing it more. Sorry Princess of the Princess cruise lines but you are a classist bigot.

  16. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    Why wouldn’t US citizens be banned from countries? We banned other countries from traveling to us. Different timelines. We are behind. New York was 20 days behind Italy. Detroit was behind New York. Interior cities are probably behind Detroit.

  17. Lynne
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    HW, yes that does sound awful! How do YOU handle it every day?

    FF, indeed. I believe that Trump voters have incomes higher than average though. I know this is a stupid question but have you ever considered STFU when you don’t know what you are talking about. I get it that it would mean that you would have to cease posting here on MM almost entirely if you were to do that but I could live with that!

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/06/05/its-time-to-bust-the-myth-most-trump-voters-were-not-working-class/

  18. Demetrius
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    Don’t worry. COVID-19 will just go away.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8yOv4PwttM

  19. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    Besides that Princess, people choose to expose themselves to different aspects of life which results in sophistication in different areas. Not being sophisticated at international travel does not speak to an individuals overall sophistication. Where are your values, assumptions, and judgments being derived from, Princess Lynne?

  20. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 11:26 am | Permalink

    “HW, yes that does sound awful! How do YOU handle it every day?”

    I prove you wrong every day but you stick your fingers in your ears and cover your eyes and say lalala. Recent case in point: Whitmer’s requiring nursing homes to take covid patients. I easily destroyed your argument using the text of the order which is what you tried to use to make your backwards point. I could go on and on and on and on. You don’t have one factual thing you can identify that you ever corrected me on.

  21. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    I already knew that the median income for Trump supporters was higher than Hilary supporters. You are missing the point again, dummy.

    The point is that it is problematic when you make a JUDGMENT about 1) the general sophistication of a group of people; based upon your ASSUMPTION that the individuals of that group are 2) the type of people who are not European travelers.

    Where are your stats on Trump supporters European vacation frequency, you idiot?

    Even if you had the European vacation stats in hand: Where is your goddamn sense to realize that judgments about a person’s sophistication should not be derived from a statistical analysis of individuals relative wealth against their frequency of European travel?

    When Princess Lynne attempts to make a judgment about others by applying her values to others , while simultaneously making a bunch of assumptions, she is saying nothing about the group of other people but she is saying quit a lot about her self.

  22. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    Do you see how there are layers to your stupidity, Lynne? It’s stupid based in stupid grounded in stupid. What holds all of the stupidity together? Mostly your bigotry and your narcissism—as far as I can tell.

  23. Jean Henry
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    FF– Trump supporters have more money on average than Dems. So there goes that theory. (If I were you, I’d be calling you a willful liar) They simply choose not to travel internationally, or, if they so, make sure to insulate themselves in bubbles of all inclusive resorts where no sense of any other culture or perspective can be found, as is their wont.

  24. Jean Henry
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    Trump supporters are overwhelmingly less educated. Speak fewer languages, travel less widely, etc etc etc.

    They are in fact less sophisticated. Sophisticated in its true meaning:

    sophisticated (adj.)
    c. 1600, “mixed with a foreign substance, impure; no longer simple or natural,” past-participle adjective from sophisticate (v.). Of persons, with a positive sense, “worldly-wise, discriminating, cultured,” from 1895.

  25. Jean Henry
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    According to the just-released PRRI/The Atlantic poll, 40 percent of Donald Trump’s likely voters live in the community where they spent their youth,

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/trump-supporters-hometowns/503033/

  26. Jean Henry
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

    https://jspp.psychopen.eu/article/view/750/html

  27. Jean Henry
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 2:14 pm | Permalink

    4. Intergroup contact

    “Intergroup contact refers to contact with members of groups that are outside one’s own, which has been experimentally shown to reduce prejudice. As such, it’s important to note that there is growing evidence that Trump’s white supporters have experienced significantly less contact with minorities than other Americans. For example, a 2016 study found that “…the racial and ethnic isolation of Whites at the zip-code level is one of the strongest predictors of Trump support.” This correlation persisted while controlling for dozens of other variables. In agreement with this finding, the same researchers found that support for Trump increased with the voters’ physical distance from the Mexican border.”

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201712/analysis-trump-supporters-has-identified-5-key-traits?page=1

  28. Lynne
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

    HW, you crack me up. Your MO is to declare yourself the winner even when you are not. You have not proven me wrong ever. Nice try though. I guess the nice thing about delusions of grandeur is that you feel good about yourself even as others have a more accurate view of you.

    FF, wow. does it bother you that Trump supporters are not sophisticated? Do you somehow think that they are? I mean I am sure there are some as there would be in any large group but generally with that group…not. Have you EVER seen footage of a Trump rally?

    And seriously FF, you know that I think you are a moron right? So no, I do not see the layers of my stupidity that you make up in your head. How could I possibly? It is entertaining though to watch you try to articulate the nonsense in your head.

    JH, thank you for doing the leg work there. I probably wouldn’t have bothered since past experience has shown me that no matter how many facts you pull out, some people here don’t really operate in facts.

  29. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

    Wrong as always. You can’t even think about alll the things I made you shut your ass up about.

    I posted newspaper articles about Whitmer’s policy. You posted the order itself which proved my point! You never expounded on your claim because it’s bullshit while I can talk all day about what I’m saying because there is a shit ton of evidence.

    What I am saying about it is not controversial. No one else but you denies that particular reality. You are just making it all up as you go along. It happens every time you engage me in anything factual which is rare. Usually it’s just a dull emotional attack in my general direction about nothing in particular. To do all that every chance you get and fail every single time but still try to gaslight me is insane.

  30. Lynne
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    You keep on believing that HW. I would hate for you to put a bullet to your head or something because you suddenly got an accurate view of yourself!

  31. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    “…dull emotional attack in my general direction.”

  32. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

    I don’t talk about people here needing to put bullets in their head or needing to be strung up or shot. I don’t spoof people’s nickname and say terrible things. I don’t say sexually degrading things about people or their families. I don’t put words in people’s mouth. All that and much much more has been done to me by the sophisticated denizens of barkbaynard.com.

    It’s grotesque to step back and think of the totality of posts made only to attack out of sheer hatred. I might add a little sauce to what I dish out but I am damn nice in comparison to you and a number of other individuals here.

  33. Jean Henry
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    “Ben Collins must be as much of a fuckin’ dork as Baynard. “Level 1 Qanon stuff”! Derp.””Oh, yeah. I’ve seen that guy say the most asinine shit about Q but he has no idea what Q writes.
    what makes you think you know what you are talking about? You are too chickenshit to find out what these people put on their own social media. You are nothing.
    Nothing you say ever amounts to anything”
    “I prove you wrong every day but you stick your fingers in your ears and cover your eyes and say lalala. …” I could go on and on and on and on. You don’t have one factual thing you can identify that you ever corrected me on.”

    THEN…I might add a little sauce to what I dish out but I am damn nice in comparison to you and a number of other individuals here.

    All in THIS post TODAY….

    Attempts at factual support (not actually factual) are minuscule (two lines) in comparison to the vitriol.

    #Dunning-Kruger

  34. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    You could learn so much about your own classism and bigotry if you wanted to do so, Lynne. It’s on display for all to see quite a lot. Somewhere along the line you started to believe that you could get away with being dishonest by covering it up with a degree of cleverness. The problem is “the truth” can always track and chase down “the dishonest and clever”. It’s no contest.

    Simple

  35. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    No Jean. You have no memory. You and your little buddy intentionally TRIED to terrorize/ bully HW with some of the most awful personal attacks for 6 months. It was an awful thing to witness. Not because I think it harmed HW but because it made me realize how awful and controlling of a person you are. If children did what you did they would be kicked out of school after a week. You and your little buddy did it as a coordinated effort for 6 months! Fuck off with your pretending like you did not do something very wrong. It happened. I witnessed it.

  36. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

    That’s true, Flakes. I don’t know about only two of them for six months! But it has been psychopathic. What Jean quoted by me there has a very different quality to it. Calling someone a derp for what they said while explaining why what they said is garbage is pretty reasonable I think.

    I can analyze the anti-Q derp’s misinformation any time. I saw him a while ago talking nonsense about Q on some tv show. He doesn’t even read the posts or understand what Q is.

  37. Lynne
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

    *rolls eyes* Really FF? The guy who makes a point to name call at every opportunity is actually going to try to say that other people are bullying him. Give me a break.

    HW, I don’t talk about people needing a bullet in their head either but I apologize if you thought so. Knowing your reading comprehension deficits, I should have been more clear. It is just that I am used to communicating with people who are more literate.

  38. Lynne
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    Sorry HW, I did it again!

    People who are more literate = people who can read

  39. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    Jean,

    You don’t seem to get it. I knew that Hilary supporters had a lower median income. I even suspected there was some truth in the idea that Republican’s tend to stay closer to home. I even revealed that I would concede that Trump supporters go on less European vacations because that is beside the point. It is not an income contest or travel contest. The point, which I already articulated, is that Lynne’s FRAMING of what “sophistication” consists of is derived from her own classist bias and values. An INDIVIDUALS level of sophistication can be defined in any number of ways. The framing you and Lynne are choosing says little about the sophistication of an individual but a lot about your values and preferences. It is a sign of your lack of sophistication and your narcissism that you fail to realize that sophistication is not measured by the standards YOU put forth.

    The idea that it is some sort of contest between what group makes more and which travels on European vacation more is the actual focus of my critique. Saying one group makes more money and another group travels less misses the entire point.

    You guys frame the meaning of “what it is to be sophisticated” based upon your capacity to do a particular thing (expensive travel) , your actually doing a particular thing (expensive travel). The things that YOU are presumably competent in (expensive travel) are not the standards which define “sophistication” for others. It’s literally classist to think the way you think.

  40. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    Lynne,

    Nobody bullied me. I said Jean and her little buddy (not you) TRIED to bully HW.

  41. Lynne
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

    FF strikes me as one of those men who perceive it as bullying any time a women or POC or anyone they consider beneath them is assertive or confident in their approach. Do you think Christians are oppressed too, FF?

    Anyways, I am sorry that you perceive things as bullying that very clearly are NOT bullying but your hurt feelings are not my responsibility. All I can say is get used to it because the patriarchy is being smashed and it does really mean that you will lose privilege. I get it that you feel entitled to it but as you are not actually entitled to it, there is nothing for you to do but to learn to accept it! Women are going to talk to you with confidence and assertiveness. There is no reason why you need to interpret that as aggression. If it makes you feel better you are not alone. The labeling of women as aggressive (i.e. bullying) when they are actually simply being assertive is pretty well known.

  42. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

    “Trump supporters are overwhelmingly less educated.“

    Educated? Like went through the expensive-processs-of -college-type-educated or something else?

    Do you want to try to understand my point before or after I use that statement, steeped in classism, to prove my point again, Jean, the college graduate, holder of papers, and daughter of Harvard folk?

    Jesus you guys are regressive.

  43. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

    I just said I was not bullied. Maybe you wrote all of that junk before reading what I wrote?

    We have heard those lines from you ike 10 times before.

    Bot

  44. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    “I would hate for you to put a bullet to your head or something because you suddenly got an accurate view of yourself!”

    “I don’t talk about people needing a bullet in their head either but I apologize if you thought so.”

    You’re not saying I would or should do that if I saw myself accurately? Gaslighting moron.

  45. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

    I can’t shake the feeling I saw Lynne a few years ago down by the downtown farmer’s market. The individual I heard/saw was a big fat frizzy haired loudmouth fool with a seriously obnoxious voice. Sound about right, Lynne?

  46. Wobblie
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

    Aloha , Trump can see reality as the bodies keep piling up

    https://www.rawstory.com/2020/06/trump-predicts-joe-biden-victory-during-fox-news-interview-hes-gonna-be-your-president/

  47. Jean Henry
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

    The framing I used for ‘sophistication’ FF was the dictionary definition including the original connotation which literally means exposed to other cultures. There are many many people who are not more educated in the traditional sense but who have ‘sophistication; about other cultures. These include most immigrants. They also did not vote for Trump.

    The education thing was not intended as an overarching point/stand in for sophistication. It’s simply a piece of the picture. I provided ample source to show that Trump supporters as a group are more insularand wealthy than Dem voters

    In the past you have asserted that dictionary definitions are incontrovertible sources of the truth. I disagreed, which is why I include the etymology to fold in connotation as well. Now it seems this definition things are subjective…

    What a phony~What a fraud!

  48. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 10:52 pm | Permalink

    No Jean. You have no memory. You mocked the use of dictionary definitions because you seemed to think dictionaries were stupid so we made fun of you. Dictionaries are great reference points and a useful tool for conversations. However, I personally don’t trust the etymology you offered at all. The word has ancient roots and the etymology you offered was going back to the 1600 and 1800s. Not far enough, imo.

    soph-, root. -soph- comes from Greek, where it has the meaning “wise. ” This meaning is found in such words as: philosopher, philosophy, sophism, sophisticated, sophistry, sophomore, theosophy, unsophisticated.

    I generally think of sophistication in the modern usage as most generally meaning “complex”. So having a complex understanding of other cultures might be one FORM of sophistication. Likewise, a complex system of compressing and cooling air in a turbo charged engine would be one indicator of an automobile that has been designed and engineered with sophistication.

    There are many different ways to be sophisticated. There are many different ways to gain wisdom. There are many different ways to be complex. There are many different ways to become educated. That is a fact. Now compare that fact with the little arguments you and Lynne have offered to try to show one group is more sophisticated and educated than the other. It is obvious from the stats and articles you shared that you think that sophisticated-educated-wise-complexity ought to follow a specific path. In this case it involves going to expensive college and going to expensive European vacation. Those are your well off liberal white girl values and a reflection of your well off liberal white girl privileges.

    A doctor of philo-soph-y might tell you to skip the college courses and European vacation and just go to a library and study logic.

    An expert in theo-soph-y might tell you to skip the logic, skip college, skip the vacation, and go just go to church.

    A skilled soph-ist might tell you to skip all of it and just go to Harvard law school:)

    Your values and Lynne’s values are not the standard by which wisdom, complexity, and education must be gained. Your belief that your path is THE PATH is indicative of your obvious lack of wisdom in all areas of life.

    It’s so basic.

  49. Mr. Jackpots
    Posted June 25, 2020 at 11:50 pm | Permalink

    New here. Been reading Mark’s blog for a while but never have commented before.

    I have a question for HW and FF. Why do you come here and read this politically liberal blog you obviously disagree with and argue your conspiracy-driven, backwards viewpoints, berating those who challenge and disagree with you, knowing full well that you won’t change anyone’s minds? And then you play the victim card too? I read every blog post and all the comments and it’s the same every goddamn day. Are you both just gluttons for punishment? Do you seriously not have anything better to be doing with your time?

  50. Posted June 26, 2020 at 6:17 am | Permalink

    “How A President Leads”

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5TiyJ7JWRE

  51. Jean Henry
    Posted June 26, 2020 at 6:18 am | Permalink

    FF– I accept your definition of sophistication and it does not differ from mine in any way.

    I never mentioned European vacations or expensive colleges. You projected all those things.

    I agree with your examples of everything but your projection of snobbery and classism onto mine. If you can only make your point with personal slander then there is no point.

    Please provide evidence that Trump supporters meet your definition of sophisticated. Where are the surveys and studies that counter those I presented that show they are not insular and uninterested in other cultures or experiences or perspectives but their own.

  52. Anonymous
    Posted June 26, 2020 at 6:31 am | Permalink

    Perhaps cosmopolitan/worldly would be a more accurate adjective.

  53. Jean Henry
    Posted June 26, 2020 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    Those words have the same unfortunate connotations around snobbery. Because we live in a time where any populist tack will hold some sway. Sophisticated means exposed to and comfortable across cultures. That means almost an US immigrant qualifies regardless of education level. And in my experience (which is primarily with refugees and food service co-workers) this is largely true.

  54. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 26, 2020 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    “Please provide evidence that Trump supporters meet your definition of sophisticated. “—Jean

    Why would l try to do that? Asking that question reveals that you are missing the point. I am not trying to prove that Trump supporters are more complex, wise, educated, or cosmopolitan. I am trying to show that you and Lynne are being classist when you define “sophisticated” and “educated” relative to your own particular values. I don’t like to think this way but the two of you belong to the well-off-white-girl-college-educated-class. Your capacity to attend an expensive college and go on expensive european vacations is in large part contingent on your unique privileges. (Lynne literally tied sophistication to european travel and you literally tied sophistication to college attendance stats. )

    My preference is to tie notions of sophistication to complexity and wisdom because it avoids the employment of classist values in the way that you guys use it. Why? Because I do not value classism. Why? Because it is a manifestation of the logic of bigotry.

    Take a set of 100 people that are poor, black, lived entire life on the south side of Chicago, did not attend college, did not travel abroad, and did not often leave their predominantly AA neighborhood. Does it feel right to label the individuals in that group as necessarily “unsophisticated”? Of course not. Are the individuals within that set precluded from the possibility of being complex and wise human beings? Of course not.

    That you guys tried to frame the dispute as a challenge for me to prove that Trump supporters are more travelled and more college educated proved my point.

    We are going to find complex and wise people within all the various groups without regard for their politics, wealth, college education status, and race. I don’t know why that is a difficult reality to absorb and incorporate into ones mode of being.

    You have been talking a lot about “tearing it down” lately. You ladies are the only ones capable of tearing down these specific types off manifestations. I am not impressed with your insistence on leaving this kind of shit erected. Maybe your lack of sophistication is preventing you from doing what ought to be done?

  55. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 26, 2020 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    Side note: our definitions of sophisticated, were not As you suggested, the same at all. I found it interesting that “sophisticate” has also been defined as: “corrupted by foreign substances. To adulterate.” I don’t have any overarching point other than I think there is a difference between exposure to all kinds of different things—I am looking at you Jean—and a capacity to integrate those things into your being in a way that forms a cohesive whole. Complexity and wisdom require a balancing act.

    Side side note: My sophisticated turbo charged German automobile currently has a mysterious vacuum leak so I have been relying on my less sophisticated American made, naturally aspirated, SUV to get me around town.

  56. Anonymous
    Posted June 26, 2020 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    There must be more than this provincial life…

  57. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 26, 2020 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    I want so much more than they’ve got planned….

  58. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 26, 2020 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    Neat section of mural at the Denver airport made long ago.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbcJkaJUwAQVNX8?format=jpg&name=900×900

  59. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 26, 2020 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

    I am trying to make the world a better place Mr Jackpots. There is a reason slot machines light up so the whole casino is aware when a person hits a jackpot.

    https://youtu.be/gNiERGr–zo

    Five years from now please don’t approach me uninvited while I am eating dinner. I will not need your “thank you”. I would prefer you refrained from attempting to kiss me on the cheek too.

    https://youtu.be/0NPG2Fb0iy8

  60. Lynne
    Posted June 26, 2020 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

    Re: “I can’t shake the feeling I saw Lynne a few years ago down by the downtown farmer’s market. The individual I heard/saw was a big fat frizzy haired loudmouth fool with a seriously obnoxious voice. Sound about right, Lynne?”

    It always fascinates me how so many people, when they feel even the smallest loss of status/priviledge, will immediately use our patriarchal hierarchy to make themselves feel better. This purpose of this post is to remind me that as a fat person, my status in our society is lower than that of thin people. This is especially true for women.

    HW is counting on my having internalized the class/status hierarchy Maybe? Or maybe he just posted that to remind himself that if he is a man and thin, he is way higher on the hierarchy than me, a fat woman? Knowing him as I do and knowing that he very clearly is the kind of person who gets pleasure from being cruel to others I imagine it is the former and he was hoping to hurt my feelings by reminding me that I am of less value as a fat woman. Luckily for me, I don’t judge people’s worth on the hierarchies of the patriarchal colonial society we live in. So even if I were the fat frizzy-haired loud-mouthed woman HW saw at the farmer’s market, I would know that fat frizzy-haired loud-mouthed women are fucking awesome! I know so many! Those are people who bring something to the world that has value. I mean like actual value. Not the fake things upon which we base status today like skin color or gender or thinness or able-bodiedness or income level, or whatever.

    I also found FF’s assumptions about my use of the word “sophisticated”. All I said is that an international travel ban would not bother most Trump supporters because they are not sophisticated enough to want to travel internationally”

    Just to be clear. It is a fact that most Trump supporters do not travel internationally. Most Americans do not travel internationally actually.

    It is my opinion that a big reason why Trump supporters do not travel internationally is that they do not want to (as opposed to not being able to afford to which was one of FF’s first wrong assumptions) and that the reason they do not want to is that they are unsophisticated. I did mean it in a bit of class way in that I see the word as meaning “wordly” and “interested in other cultures” but also ok, there is a little “I like the Opera” in there too.

    Mostly though, my point was that it doesn’t matter to Trump voters if European nations let tourists in or not because most Trump voters do not travel internationally.

    The whole argument about sophistication doesn’t have anything to do with anything except FF’s internalized beliefs about the value of being sophisticated. I hope you work that out, FF. You are correct that social class is one of those things on the hierarchy where the people who live in mansions are higher in status than people who live in cheap apartments or trailers. Once you realize though that the hierarchy is bullshit, FF, the sooner it will stop hurting your feelings when y0u see it in things people say.

  61. Lynne
    Posted June 26, 2020 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

    It is super interesting that FF is using the ultimate epitome of the status symbol, the automobile, to establish some status here in this conversation. Quite interesting.

  62. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 26, 2020 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

    “It is my opinion that a big reason why Trump supporters do not travel internationally is that they do not want to (as opposed to not being able to afford to which was one of FF’s first wrong assumptions) and that the reason they do not want to is that they are unsophisticated.”

    Wrong. Missing the point. Your classist assumptions guide your thought processes at every step Lynne. As I have already stated I already knew that Trump supporters have a higher median income. My critique is of your and Jean’s tying of things like expensive international travel and expensive college education to YOUR conception of “sophistication”. The individual Dem who is unable to afford European travel and expensive college is not precluded from being a “sophisticated person” any more than Republican who is in the same situation. Further, the person who chooses to go to college and go on an expensive European vacation is not magically more complex and wise than the next person who may have chosen entirely different avenues for complexity and wisdom building… The purpose of my critique is to show that there is something problematic in your conception of “sophisticated” as well as superficial/classist in your application of the label here. Your conception here is a conception that is rooted in a history of classism and your failure to recognize that allows for for such a conception to grow like a tree dropping nasty fruit all around it. I would think that you would want to chop that nasty tree down. We won’t even judge you for it. In fact, we will praise you for getting rid of the nasty tree as well as praise you for your honesty. Even George Washington did not have this kind of privileged opportunity within the myths that were manufactured about him. Chop it down Cassandra!!!

    https://www.history.com/news/top-george-washington-myths-cherry-tree-wooden-teeth

  63. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 26, 2020 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    Your classist impulse guides your every interpretation and thought, bigot-brain-Lynne. I am not trying to boost my status. I am using the metaphor of two automobiles in an attempt to shed light on a more appropriate/less classist application of the term “sophisticated”. I was trying to illustrate that it is better to think of “sophisticated” as integrated complexity as part of a functioning whole. Thus, I am pointing out my “less sophisticated”, naturally aspirated, American SUV, is currently “more sophisticated” because, although it is less complex than the German turbo, in terms of design, it’s complexity is functioning as an integrated whole at the moment. That is, it is getting me to where I need to go.

    A house divided will not stand.

    A German turbo not breathing will not go.

  64. Jean Henry
    Posted June 26, 2020 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

    Every single projection of classist impulse here has been your own projection FF.

    It;’s not like we don’t get the concept.

    I just had an interesting conversation with my mom about Malcolm X. She was an Adult Ed literacy teacher and advocate in my hometown for over 30 years. (You know that Harvard pipeline leads straight to literacy advocacy in one of the poorest counties in Pennsylvania, because… FANCY) Her client base shifted along with the political winds and at the end she was teaching mostly former prisoners at the local community college. She had them read the Autobiography of Malcom X adjusting assignments to each students capacity but always including the prison chapters. She also taught LatinX writers and said she wanted her syllabus to reflect and value her students’ lived experiences. When the GOP took control of the State government they mandated the reading materials: Children’s Books. She quit. And today she said, ‘I had the privilege to quit; others did not.” This is new language for her but not a new experience. I asked how old she was and she was 78 years old. when she stopped working. She told me how sad she is that so many of her clients ended up moving back to Philly or Baltimore to take care of family and never made it out of the cycle (quicksand really) of intergenerational poverty. Because she shows up for people, she knows where they are and what they are doing.

    My mom has a bunch of serious issues but she was an excellent and committed advocate for refugee and illiterate citizens. My father is a community lawyer who serves farmers and workers with his sleeves rolled up, no tie, no jacket. He’s still working. He also disbarred a lot of shitty ass lawyers as the President of the PA Bar Association Disciplinary committee. My parents chose to devote their lives and expertise to an underserved and very conservative community and a piece of abandoned farm property that is no a jewel of ecological preservation. And neither of them ever condescended to people with less advantage. It was criminal in my house to do so. In my hometown almost everyone supports Trump hardcore, from the richest to poorest. I know first hand that they are not immune to snobbery…

    You keep talking about my parents, so I’m correcting the record. You have no idea. Salt of the fucking earth. They are of course deeply flawed in other ways, but not in terms of commitment to community service.

    What do you do to help the working class people you are trying to advocate for, FF?

    Give me your resume and I’ll show yummy parents’ and mine. Let’s throw down, you unmediated Prick.

  65. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 26, 2020 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    I am not exposing “snobbery” based upon social economic class though. I am exposing an instance of YOUR and Lynne’s obvious participation of classism at the level of YOUR logic frameworks which YOU choose to participate in and which YOU chose to defend in this argument. It’s obvious if you track your chosen defenses. You don’t get it. I am not simply calling you “snob”. I am calling you deeply unsophisticated as I define the term :)

  66. Lynne
    Posted June 26, 2020 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    I am ok with FF thinking I am a classist snob. I certainly do not agree with that opinion but I don’t have to. So there we are. If FF wants to do a little church-lady superiority dance, that is ok but I think it says a lot more about him than it does about me or JH.

  67. Wobblie
    Posted June 26, 2020 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

    Aloha FF your retreat into mental gymnastics and sophisms clearly demonstrates your sophistication.
    Another 700 dead from the Trumpvirus. MAGA

  68. Jean Henry
    Posted June 26, 2020 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    Nice one, Wobblie.

  69. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 26, 2020 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    “Unsophisticated” was my preferred label actually.

    I hope our conversation doesn’t cause “reader from Madrid” to have second thoughts about you. It seemed like Madrid was really starting to warm up to you after you performed your little sophistication-signaling routine. Explicitly disparaging half of America and implicitly disparaging many more seemed to really be convincing our European friend that you ought to be accepted as part of the club.

  70. Jean Henry
    Posted June 26, 2020 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    Why do I have the feeling I have a lot more exposure to IRL conservative culture than FF does even though he subscribes to it??

    Probably it’s the talking out his ass part…

  71. Jean Henry
    Posted June 26, 2020 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    Yes, FF. Lynne and I are the reason that ‘reader from Madrid’ has a poor image of half of America. Doesn’t have anything to do with the behavior and statements of man they chose to be President…

  72. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 26, 2020 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    Parts of you are a part of the parts of America that you claim to not be a part of. That’s what I think. This kind of work is hard. These kind of conversations are uncomfortable but necessary if we expect to influence real change. You can’t expect to dismantle the masters house with the masters tools. :)

  73. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 26, 2020 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

    I said a “fool” with a “seriously obnoxious voice”. The build of the individual I saw fits what you already said about yourself: that you are a Woman of Weight (WoW). I don’t hold that against anyone. You being big and fat it’s no matter to me.. It was the voice that makes me think it was you.

  74. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 26, 2020 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    Bark Bitchard said I was unsophisticated for holding that Flynn would not ‘flip’, that there was nothing to flip over and that Flynn would be fine. Looks like Barky and all the rest of you that howled at me about that are real sophisticated now. You are so sophisticated you have no ability to notice what’s happening, let alone understand it. Neat trick!

  75. Posted June 26, 2020 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

    Persons of interest identified in Macy’s viral video attack

    https://nbc25news.com/news/local/persons-of-interest-identified-in-macys-viral-video-attack

    This is the incident about which Trump commented and retweeted earlier this week. The assailant has simply had to make the false claim that his victim used the N-word and now many people are giving him a pass.

  76. Posted June 26, 2020 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    From the Detroit News:

    Man charged in Flint Twp. attack on Macy’s employee

    https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/06/26/man-charged-flint-twp-attack-macys-employee/3266368001/

  77. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 26, 2020 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

    I was actually just going to ask the good people of MarkMaynard to sign a petition we are passing around.

    We demand the immediate defunding of all mall cops. When I say defund I really mean abolish mall cops. Problem solved.

    #amcab

  78. Posted June 26, 2020 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

    The assailant’s brother said, “…what else were we supposed to do? In this age and time, he didn’t know what else to do. That was just his instinct.”

    From the New York Post:

    Rapper who filmed Macy’s beatdown of white man says attack was ‘instinct’

    https://nypost.com/2020/06/20/man-who-filmed-macys-beatdown-of-white-man-says-attack-was-instinct/

  79. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 26, 2020 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

    My instincts say “amcab” all day. It’s not prejudicial at all. It has to do with the legitimacy of indoor mall structures. AMCAB is actually a carefully chosen slogan by wordsmiths. AMCAB is not a riff on anybody else’s slogans. That would be racist cultural appropriation.

    A lyrical peek into the rapper/cinematographer’s AMCAB manifesto:

    Next stop/Cinnabon/ Cinnamon/Racist homo-nyms /with synonyms/on top/ like that Cinnabon shop/ that’s gonna get stomped-out for clout

  80. Jean Henry
    Posted June 26, 2020 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

    iRobert– what evidence do you have that the kids were not provoked? Are you under the impression that they won’t be tried and convicted of assault? Are you under the impression that young Black men get a pass in our criminal justice system?

    If not, why are you focused on this story about which we do not have enough information to draw any conclusion, except that it was assault and the two men have a warrant out for their arrest for it.

    Trump talks about it so, what? We have to?

  81. iRobert
    Posted June 27, 2020 at 12:04 am | Permalink

    JH: “iRobert– what evidence do you have that the kids were not provoked?”

    Kids? Are you calling them “boys?” Isn’t that offensive? The assailant is an 18 year old adult. His brother is 22.

    The police have the evidence that the assailant approached and struck the victim from behind.

    JH: “Are you under the impression that they won’t be tried and convicted of assault?”

    No, but I’m under the impression you, and idiots like you, are suckered by a piece of shit who claims he was provoked by racism.

    JH: “Are you under the impression that young Black men get a pass in our criminal justice system?”

    No. I am under the impression some of the guilty would with an idiot like yourself making the decisions.

    JH: “If not, why are you focused on this story about which we do not have enough information to draw any conclusion, except that it was assault and the two men have a warrant out for their arrest for it.”

    Because it is a local story and we do have enough information to know the assailant is appealing to suckers like you to excuse his monstrous behavior.

    JH: “Trump talks about it so, what? We have to?”

    The assailant thinks his behavior is justified because of the climate that idiots like you promote. That’s why it’s worth bringing up here.

    It was a racist, unprovoked, violent attack on an innocent person. Decent people care about such things. Only a fucked up asshole like yourself thinks it’s a game to cherry pick which injustices are deserving of attention and which should be completely ignored or covered up.

  82. iRobert
    Posted June 27, 2020 at 12:16 am | Permalink

    Trump also indicated that he didn’t know what the situation was with the response of the legal system. I think it’s worth seeing the details regarding that.

    With assholes excusing the “fuck the police” mantra and suggesting racism is everywhere, monsters like the assailant in this circumstance are encouraged to act out. It is only the police who can ensure that justice is secured in this situation.

  83. John Brown
    Posted June 27, 2020 at 5:03 am | Permalink

    “Russia Secretly Offered Afghan Militants Bounties to Kill U.S. Troops, Intelligence Says
    The Trump administration has been deliberating for months about what to do about a stunning intelligence assessment….”

    The fucking traitor still pushed for G8 while ruskies we’re paying Taliban to kill Americans. He’s a traitor and so are all you flailing magats. That will never change no matter how much they twist logic.

  84. Wobblie
    Posted June 27, 2020 at 6:37 am | Permalink

    Aloha Trump continues to be very successful in dividing folks. Keep stoking the racial divide. Keep spreading the Trump virus. The more super spreader events the better. Get yourself to church on Sunday. Trump is the lord of chaos. The more the better.

    RECORD NUMBER OF TRUMP VIRUS CASES YESTERDAY. MAGA

  85. Wobblie
    Posted June 27, 2020 at 6:58 am | Permalink

    Aloha how about that Tyrant DeSantos taking away our rights to pursue happiness at the bars.

  86. Anonymous
    Posted June 27, 2020 at 7:23 am | Permalink

    ah, damn I guess that incident puts to rest the notions of systemic racism and police violence once and for all. Obviously the police don’t deserve criticism and shouldn’t be defunded now that this truth has been revealed for all to see. Fuck the police is a mean thing to say and it’s about time folks stopped saying it I agree Robert.

  87. Wobblie
    Posted June 27, 2020 at 7:41 am | Permalink

    Aloha are wonderful protectors of the public killed 110 suspects in the 30 days after the Floyd murder. MAGA

  88. Anonymous
    Posted June 27, 2020 at 7:51 am | Permalink

    USA! USA! USA! MAGA

    https://twitter.com/wendellpotter/status/1276158510955401216

    Amid America’s #COVID19 disaster, I must come clean about a lie I spread as a health insurance exec: We spent big $$ to push the idea that Canada’s single-payer system was awful & the U.S. system much better. It was a lie & the nations’ COVID responses prove it. The truth: Canada’s doing much better than the U.S. when it comes to #COVID19 testing & treatment. On a per capita basis, more Canadians are being tested & fewer getting sick & dying. This may shock Americans who still believe the lies I told about the Canadian health care system. Here’s the truth: Our industry PR & lobbying group, AHIP, supplied my colleagues & me with cherry-picked data & anecdotes to make people think Canadians wait endlessly for their care. It’s a lie & I’ll always regret the disservice I did to folks on both sides of the border. In Canada, no one gets turned away from doctors due to lack of funds. In America, exorbitant bills are a defining feature of the system. What about quality of care? When it comes to #COVID19, there’s been ~ 21 deaths per 100,000 in Canada, versus 34 per 100,000 in the U.S. Remember, in Canada there are no co-pays, deductibles or co-insurance ever. Care is free at the point of service. And those laid off in Canada don’t face the worry of losing their health insurance. In the U.S., millions are losing their jobs & coverage, and scared to death.You learn a lot about a healthcare system when a global crisis hits & different nations have different results. Canada’s single-payer system is saving lives. The U.S. profit-driven corporate model is failing.

    I’ll regret slandering Canada’s system for the rest of my life.

  89. Jean Henry
    Posted June 27, 2020 at 7:53 am | Permalink

    IRobert—you have some stuff to work out.

    Don’t worry. we all do.

    My interest in discussing systemic racism with you is zero.

  90. Jean Henry
    Posted June 27, 2020 at 7:59 am | Permalink

    There are other shithole nations. For those who have defended Russia here and our presidents inaction:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/26/us/politics/russia-afghanistan-bounties.html?searchResultPosition=1

  91. Wobblie
    Posted June 27, 2020 at 8:09 am | Permalink

    Aloha JH Why are Americans still occupying Afghanistan? Under the Nuremberg standard , the aggressor nation is responsible for all the evil that flows from that aggression. I know there has not been a neo-liberal war you couldn’t get behind. But just like with global warming and the Trumpvirus if we stop talking about ….

    I know us MAGAhats are math and science challenged, this site did the arithmetic for me.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

  92. Wobblie
    Posted June 27, 2020 at 8:19 am | Permalink

    Aloha EOS and FF, Why do you think JH and the NY Times are trying to undermine The Leaders surrender in Afghanistan?

  93. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 27, 2020 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    Anonymous and Jean,

    I think we should give iRobert the benefit of doubt. Maybe iRobert really believes repeating bigoted statements is not helpful for fighting racism? I mean he is never going to convince me that all mall cops are not bastards, but we can’t expect everyone to be as woke as the three of us. Plus he probably has never listened to the NWA song, so he doesn’t understand how wise the slogans we use actually are.

  94. Lynne
    Posted June 27, 2020 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    Wobblie, Re: Afghanistan Once we got in we were obligated not to get out until there was stability there. It gets complicated because “stability” might mean Taliban rule with all of the human rights issues that would go along with that. Seeing as how you very easily threw women under the bus in 2016 by helping get Trump elected, I am not at all surprised that you are ok with women being the collateral damage of withdrawal from Afghanistan. But for me, that is a big consideration.

    Yes, it would have been better and cheaper for us to never have gone there in the first place and instead addressed the women’s rights issues by funding organizations like RAWA but unfortunately a lot of peopke helped George Bush get elected in 2000 by voting for Nader. Those people also have 20 years of neglect in terms of climate change to own as well.

  95. Lynne
    Posted June 27, 2020 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    I think iRobert is just trying to prove that even liberal white men can be racist.

  96. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 27, 2020 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    When Cassandra calls you a racist it is ok if you don’t believe her but that doesn’t mean you are still not an obvious racist.

    According to our records, iRobert, you still have not signed our petition to abolish mall cops. What are we supposed to think about you iRobert?

    #amcab

  97. Sad
    Posted June 27, 2020 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    Everyone is racist.

    Just some racist just have more power than others.

    Glad to see you haven’t changed FF.

    How’s your garden?

  98. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 27, 2020 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    I know Sad! That is why we need to abolish all of the bastard mall cops. They are all illegitimate. I dream of a world where the Macy’s employee folding cloths is no longer seen as holding power over their customers. Silence is violence. Sign the petition now!

    #amcab

  99. iRobert
    Posted June 27, 2020 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

    Jean thinks there should be a media blackout on any criminal violence perpetrated by black folks. I understand. You’re not interested in a full and accurate picture of anything. You don’t care about statistics or victims of violent crime generally. You only interested in a very small, specific type of crime. That’s all you want to talk about, or anyone to know about. I’m sure that’s going to go really well for you. Good luck.

  100. Wobblie
    Posted June 27, 2020 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    Aloha Lynne, yes all white men have blood dripping from their hands. That is why it is so important to support the new-liberal world agenda. Stay the course in Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Iraq etc. Since we are responsible for the death and destruction in the ME we must continue to support death and destruction in the region until it is “fixed” to liberal specifications. Thanks I think I understand now.

  101. Jean Henry
    Posted June 27, 2020 at 11:19 pm | Permalink

    From Wobblie’s site:
    “the rate of fatal police shootings among Black Americans was much higher than that for any other ethnicity, standing at 30 fatal shootings per million of the population as of June 2020.”

    “Jean thinks there should be a media blackout on any criminal violence perpetrated by black folks. “– never said that. I asked why you chose that example to discuss of all the narratives you could have conveyed.

  102. iRobert
    Posted June 28, 2020 at 6:28 am | Permalink

    I chose it for two reasons. First, it is a disturbing racially motivated and violent crime which occurred here in Michigan. Second, Trump’s comment on it suggested he thought maybe the assailant would get away with it.

    But you were triggered by my commenting on it. The reason you were is because you want a blackout of any and all crimes committed by folks who think like you.

    The assailant thinks and feels like you do, Jean. He demonstrates that in his actions, words, and attempts to claim his actions were a reaction to racism.

    The culture of hate and violence that you promote sets the stage for behavior like this assailants. It is undermining the movement for positive change. I think this culture of hate is going to derail hopes for the most meaningful and positive change in systemic racism.

  103. Wobblie
    Posted June 28, 2020 at 6:42 am | Permalink

    Aloha, this pretty well sums up my thoughts on where we are as a country

    https://eand.co/america-surrendered-to-coronavirus-the-result-is-a-tidal-wave-of-death-b47c20d6597f

  104. iRobert
    Posted June 28, 2020 at 6:48 am | Permalink

    By the way, Jean and Wobblie, are you unaware that many categories of criminal activity are far more prevalent in economically disadvantaged communities? Those categories of criminal activity are also those most directly actionable by police. Black Americans are disproportionately represented in economically disadvantaged communities. These details which you ignore are the most significant factors resulting in the disproportionate numbers of black people being involved in those categories of criminal activity.

    From Wobblie’s site:
    “the rate of fatal police shootings among Black Americans was much higher than that for any other ethnicity, standing at 30 fatal shootings per million of the population as of June 2020.”

    That is almost entirely accounted for in the fact that police shootings among the economically disadvantaged is much higher. I see you deliberately avoid the detail of how many of these shooting were determined to be justifiable, as in cases where the individual in question was in the commission of a violent crime.

    But of course you two aren’t interested in a full and complete picture. You never are. You always have an agenda to misrepresent for the purpose of pushing your chosen narratives.

  105. iRobert
    Posted June 28, 2020 at 6:55 am | Permalink

    The problems of institutional and systemic racism will require thoughtful and honest analysis and action. Pushing agendas based on misrepresentation will only create more problems. It will undermine real change, and it will fuel opposition and arguments against you. You’re drumming up opposition, not only to yourselves and your misguided narrative, but also opposition to more thoughtful attempts to bring positive change.

  106. Jean Henry
    Posted June 28, 2020 at 11:32 am | Permalink

    I Robert— How much time have you actually spent exploring the abolition movement and BLM v reacting to a preconceived notion of it.

    You are constantly spiting defensive ignorance that misrepresents the movement.

    Your anxiety about racial animus is palpable. And fails it seems to distinguish between legitimate animus (in response to 400 years of continuous oppression) and illegitimate animus (exercised by the dominant class).

    The movement has been largely non violent despite provacateurs. As members of the dominant class, we don’t get to tell activists what to ask for.

    You seem to imagine that they are in control and are a threat to you. It’s all very strange and neurotic, and I’d ask you once again to step back, relax and listen.

    Here’s something from a civil rights era with which you seem more at ease, though at the time it was greatly feared. Maybe start here:
    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1962/11/17/letter-from-a-region-in-my-mind

  107. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 28, 2020 at 11:47 am | Permalink

    Rosenberg. Thousand currents. Trained Marxists. Practiced terrorists. Anti-American. Completely consistent with a transformed logic of Marxism transformed into the logic of identity politics and intersectionality.

    It will all go back to the sacred individual but people will get hurt along the way—in service not to Marxist ideals but in service of electing corrupt neo liberal capitalists. At it’s root it is a fraud.

  108. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 28, 2020 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    Antifa is worse.

  109. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 28, 2020 at 11:49 am | Permalink

    American university professors teaching it are worse than that.

  110. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 28, 2020 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    The absolute worst group is liberal-college -educated-middle-aged-Dems who are endangering well intentioned youth so they can win back some power.

  111. Meta
    Posted June 28, 2020 at 7:51 pm | Permalink

    AFAR: “A list of the countries whose citizens will be allowed to travel to Europe starting on July 1 has been released, and it does not include the United States, the New York Times reported.”

    Read the article:
    https://www.afar.com/magazine/europe-finally-set-to-reopen-but-not-to-us-travelers?fbclid=IwAR2IotcjeCxVJHsxi7zMDEdCyGDn9g4t1gXHGduT4nIkS_V4Yyw4Vp-sUPc

  112. Anonymous
    Posted June 30, 2020 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    It’s official.

    NYT: “Balancing health concerns and politics, the European Union will open its borders to visitors from 15 countries. The U.S. is not on the list.”

  113. iRobert
    Posted July 14, 2020 at 11:36 am | Permalink

    Jean, I’m protesting your blackout of the racial violence you incite. You don’t get to tell me what I can do as a protestor.

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