Yet another young white male with a gun goes on a killing rampage citing the racist “great replacement” conspiracy theory

Yesterday morning, at approximately 11:00 AM, Patrick Crusius, a 21-year-old white male wth a history of racist views, walked into the Walmart next to El Paso’s Cielo Vista Mall with an AK-47-style assault rifle, and proceeded to take the lives of 20 human beings. While some on the right, like Texas Governor Greg Abbott, are attempting to make the case that this most recent mass shooting had more to do with “mental health” than the growing threat of white nationalism in our country, or the mass proliferation of military-style weapons on our streets, this would appear to be the work of someone who knew exactly what he was doing. Crusius not only drove ten hours to El Paso from his home in Allen, Texas, but, just minutes before walking into the Walmart and beginning his killing spree, he posted a manifesto to the meme-filled refuge for hate we know as 8chan, where, as others have noted, the “gamification of terror” has become a sport among young, white racists of the internet generation. [That’s part of Crusius’s 8chan post that you see above.]

[Before we move on, I’d like to note that Governor Abbott, a favorite of “gun rights” activists everywhere, said a few years ago that he was “embarrassed” by the fact that Californians were beginning to buy guns at a rate higher than Texans. “Pick up the pace, Texans,” he urged his fellow citizens of the Lone Star State on social media. Today, however, Governor Abbott is urging people not to discuss the subject of guns, saying, “I think we need to focus more on memorials before we start the politics.” Oh, and let’s say Abbott is right (which he’s not), and this is just about mental illness. One wonders how he and other Republicans who share his view might reconcile that belief this headline from February 28, 2019 — “Trump Signs Bill Revoking Obama-Era Gun Checks for People With Mental Illnesses.”]

As for the El Paso killer’s manifesto, it’s worth noting that conservative websites, like the Drudge Report, are sharing it widely, apparently unconcerned that it might encourage others to follow suit. [Crusius himself, it would appear, has claimed to have been inspired by the manifesto of another white nationalist terrorist. More on that in a minute.] While I haven’t read the manifesto, I have read several reports, and it seems pretty clear that Crusius, based on what he posted, was motivated by an all-consuming hatred of non-whites. Following is an excerpt from today’s New York Times.

…Nineteen minutes before the first 911 call alerted the authorities to a mass shooting at a Walmart in El Paso, Tex., a hate-filled, anti-immigrant manifesto appeared online.

It spoke of a “Hispanic invasion of Texas.” It detailed a plan to separate America into territories by race. It warned that white people were being replaced by foreigners.

The authorities were scrutinizing the 2,300-word screed on Saturday and attempting to determine whether it was written by the same man who killed 20 people and injured more than two dozen others near the Mexican border.

Police officers were interviewing the suspect, Patrick Crusius, a 21-year-old white man from Allen, Tex., a roughly 10-hour drive to the Walmart. What brought him to a crowded shopping center in El Paso is one of the many questions on the minds of investigators.

The manifesto that may be linked to Mr. Crusius described an imminent attack and railed against immigrants, saying, “if we can get rid of enough people, then our way of life can be more sustainable.”

From New Zealand to Pittsburgh to a synagogue in Poway, Calif., aggrieved white men over the last several months have turned to mass murder in service of hatred against immigrants, Jews and others they perceive as threats to the white race.

The unsigned manifesto, titled “The Inconvenient Truth,” draws direct inspiration from the mass murder of Muslims at two mosques in New Zealand in March that left 51 people dead. In that attack, the alleged killer published a manifesto online promoting a white supremacist theory called “the great replacement.” The theory has been promoted by a French writer named Renaud Camus, and argues that elites in Europe have been working to replace white Europeans with immigrants from the Middle East and North Africa.

Christchurch has become a rallying cry for extremists the world over. The manifesto potentially linked to the El Paso killings begins, “In general, I support the Christchurch shooter and his manifesto. This attack is a response to the Hispanic invasion of Texas.”

…The words of the manifesto, in citing the “great replacement” theory, echo the slogan that was chanted during a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Va., in 2017: “Jews will not replace us.”

The writer of the manifesto also suggested that Democrats in the United States have a strategy to gain a permanent majority by embracing the growing Hispanic population, a notion that has gained currency on right-wing radio shows for years…

It’s also worth noting that, according to the Los Angeles Times, the social media accounts of Crusius, which have since been taken down, also reflect support for Donald Trump, who, as we know, has referred to Mexicans as “rapists”, warned of an “invasion” on our southern border, said that there were “fine people” among the white supremacists marching in Charlottesville, consistently used the word “infested” when talking about communities of color, declared that white nationalism wasn’t a threat in the wake of the Christchurch murders, and recently told four elected Congresswomen of color to “go back” to were they came from. “Tweets on the account had praised President Trump and, in particular, his effort to build a wall along the U.S- Mexico border,” the Times reported.

I could go on, but I don’t know what good it would do. We all know what’s going on. We all see what’s happening to our nation under Trump, as he continues his campaign of debasement, hacking away at the foundations of civil society. Some on the right might deny it, as they like the tax cuts for the wealthy, and the packing of the courts with conservative corporatists, but everyone can see it. We’re living in a different world than we were just three years ago. Trump is publicly telling Americans of color to “go back” to where they came from, people are chanting “send them back” at his Nuremberg-like rallies, and we all sit by in stunned silence, just waiting for the next shoe to drop, as we know, however bad things are at this very moment, if we wait a news cycle or two, there will be something even worse.

We’ve convinced ourselves, I guess, that, sooner or later, someone in power is going to have to step in and stop this madness. We think that, eventually, the Republicans will have to speak up, but instead they either announce their retirement, like Will Hurd, the last black Republican in the House of Representatives, or just embrace Trump and everything he stands for, like Lindsey Graham, in hopes of staying in power, and on the President’s good side. And the Democrats, without Republican support, are afraid to even start an impeachment inquiry, thinking that, if they do, they might alienate independent voters, thus jeopardizing their chances to win back the White House in 2020… Our institutions just weren’t designed to take this kind of stress. Just as a number of unlikely things had to happen to put Trump in the White House, events since the election have evolved in such a way as to create a perfect storm… the kind of thing that no one could have predicted… that brought us here. And I think it’s time to acknowledge that, if this is going to change, something truly unprecedented has to happen, and people need to take to the streets in numbers that haven’t been seen before in American history. Otherwise, we’re just going to keep moving down this slippery slope as all of these forces continue to push us toward fascism and violence. So, yes, by all means, call your elected officials and demand that they move swiftly on universal background checks and an assault weapons ban, focus on the threat of white nationalism, and initiate impeachment proceedings, but know that nothing is likely to change until we shut down Washington, DC… and not by working within the system, and just for a day, like during the March for Our Lives. We’re going to have to surround the Capitol and refuse to leave until we levitate that fucker.

I could go on for another few hours, but I’ll leave you with El Paso resident Beto O’Rourke.

update: It was just a matter of time, but Donald Trump is now blaming the “fake news” media and their criticism of him for the tragedy in El Paso. So apparently it’s his view that it’s the media’s fault for reporting that he laughed and joked about it when an attendee of a recently rally yelled out that immigrant “invaders” should be shot, and not his fault for laughing, joking, and creating the climate where this kind of thing has become commonplace.

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91 Comments

  1. Posted August 4, 2019 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

    One more sad and disturbing thing about this most recent shooting… CNN reported last night that El Paso officials had reason to believe that some of the Walmart shooting victims didn’t get medical care because of their immigration status.

  2. Posted August 4, 2019 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

    As for the “great replacement” conspiracy theory, you don’t have to be on 8chan to learn about it, you just need to tune-in to Tucker Carlson’s show on Fox News.

  3. Shannon Watts by proxy
    Posted August 4, 2019 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

    A 2-year-old who survived the mass shooting at an El Paso Walmart is recovering from broken bones after his 25-year-old mother, who was fatally shot, used her body to shield him and save his life.

    https://twitter.com/shannonrwatts/status/1158020666681171969?s=20

  4. John Brown
    Posted August 4, 2019 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    It’s going to get much worse if we let it. This is just a few erratic fringe going off. The organized paramilitary like 3% , oathkeepers and the KKK are ideologically and materially equipped for genocide. And their great leader is in a Christian nationalist pact with the mother. fucking. Ruskies.

  5. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted August 4, 2019 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    Nothing to do with our wonderful CIA I’m sure. So convenient: the DECLAS hammer is about to fall so we get another mass shooting with a “manifesto” (sounds so diabolical) to spell it out.

  6. Adam Schiff by proxy
    Posted August 4, 2019 at 2:20 pm | Permalink

    The ugly truth is this:

    White supremacist terrorism is a real and present danger.

    When the President and other leaders use racist or dehumanizing language to describe immigrants and Muslims as invaders, angry and isolated men with guns are listening.

    And acting.

  7. Anonymous
    Posted August 4, 2019 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

    There was also a white male shooter in Dayton last night. Most of his victims were black.

  8. Anonymous
    Posted August 4, 2019 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

    The Lt. Gov. in Texas is even worse.

    Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick says ‘video games’ caused racist El Paso shooting: ‘We’ve always had guns and evil’

  9. John Galt
    Posted August 4, 2019 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

    The problem isn’t that there aren’t enough guns. The problem is that people don’t walk around all day with them drawn, loaded and cocked. That’s the America I want to see. #TrueFreedom

  10. Fox News
    Posted August 4, 2019 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

    Kevin McCarthy, the GOP House minority leader, also tells Fox News that video games are the problem following the mass shootings in El Paso and Dayton.

    https://twitter.com/KyungLahCNN/status/1158029761198743552?s=20

  11. Rat
    Posted August 4, 2019 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

    Donald Trump is also blaming mental illness.

    https://twitter.com/i/events/1158132847674134528

  12. Preet Bharara by proxy
    Posted August 4, 2019 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    Mitch McConnell has blocked a vote on election protection bills

    Blocked a vote on House-passed common sense gun legislation

    Let’s get up or down votes

    Cancel Senate vacation and get to work

  13. Anonymous
    Posted August 4, 2019 at 8:28 pm | Permalink

    Where are your right wing trolls when you need them?

    “We disavow everything about this except for all the things that we actively supported that led him to do this.

    But but but but but but… Antifa”

  14. Bob
    Posted August 4, 2019 at 8:38 pm | Permalink

    Fuck you Warlord.

  15. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted August 4, 2019 at 8:55 pm | Permalink

    Fuck you, Internet Pussy Bob.

  16. Kat
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 5:48 am | Permalink

    I agree with Eric Holder:

    Enough-time for real action. Pass a domestic terrorism bill. Ban assault weapons, high capacity magazines, body armor, silencers. Pass universal background checks, end loopholes: gunshow and Charleston. Pass red flag laws. We can reduce the carnage if pols have the guts to act

  17. Jean Henry
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 6:38 am | Permalink

    Other shooter was a leftist. No word on his motivation. He shot his own sister. The reality is that divisive politics, no matter the side, appeals to extremists and embolden them.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/heavy.com/news/2019/08/connor-betts-twitter-politics-social-media/amp/

    Trump targeting the mentally ill for blame will make things much worse for those who struggle with already inadequate care.

  18. John Brown
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 7:01 am | Permalink

    JH, not that I doubt the prestigious “heavy.com” journalistic credibility, but wait, no I do actually doubt it. Dayton twitter says he was a bullying abusive misogynist. Let his actions define him, not some right wing media propagandists who benefit from muddying the waters.

  19. Jean Henry
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 7:21 am | Permalink

    John Brown– this may be news to you but it’s not inconceivable that someone could be a ’bullying, abusive misogynist and a leftist. (see Bernie Bros– and yes the shooter was one) The actual defining characteristic of most mass shooters is misogyny and a history of domestic violence, not political affiliation. Our President, however, being an abusive misogynist doesn’t help matters.

    Seems like the shooter was simply following your advice to gun up, John Brown.

    Ps heavy.com was not the only outlet reporting this, see npr and NYT.

  20. John Brown
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 8:00 am | Permalink

    JH,

    Here’s another hot take on how its definitely not the misogynistic culture. Definitely the drag queens, not the misogyny and guns.

    https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2019/08/04/ohio-shooting-state-rep-blames-shootings-drag-queen-advocates-and-open-borders/1918106001/

    Hopefully we get some meaningful gun control someday. Until we do that, and get the para-militarization of the alt-right brought under control, unfortunately the left must have its own armed faction. Never again, amirite?

  21. dogmatic dolt
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 8:03 am | Permalink

    Aloha JH, He was evidently a moderate like MM and yourself ie. a Warren supporter not a Berni Bros-but thanks for throwing out gratuitous insults based on your bigotry.

  22. dogmatic dolt
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 8:17 am | Permalink

    Aloha JH, how about sharing where you got this info ” (see Bernie Bros– and yes the shooter was one) “. I’ve read the articles out there and don’t find a single mention of Sanders in any of the tweets that are in the articles. Please help me.

  23. Sad
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 8:39 am | Permalink

    Are you a literalist like EOS DD?

    It sounds like the Dayton shooter was a progressive.

  24. dogmatic dolt
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 8:57 am | Permalink

    Aloha Sad, He sounds like a very confused individual. I don’t think murdering your sister is a political act. He evidently tweeted or retweeted something like 10,000 times. They have identified a half dozen in which he is either political, or expressing his support for Satan. Don’t really see how that makes you progressive. Right wingers (and I include JH in this analysis) desperately need to smear the left. They know that Bernie has huge support all across the country. They know that Biden and Harris will be rejected by voters and will be unable to gain the nomination without it being fixed ala 2016. That is why the corporatist are willing to accept Warren (she has clearly signaled to big money that she will look out for their interest). I will vote blue–oh wait that was an expression the Dayton shooter used–I will vote Democrat but till the nomination I will back candidates like Gabbard, Sanders, Yang and even Williamson. I am sorry Mayor Pete is another corporate candidate, I’ll vote for him if he gets the nomination, but he is way down on my list.

  25. Jean Henry
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    Dogmatic– he supported Bernie hard in 2016. Expressed that he would be ok with voting warren, not that he supported her. Read the damn tweets.
    Bernie bris are largely quiet this go around after a few flare ups early on re Warren and Harris. Turns out the campaign and other Bernie supporters we’re capable of shitting them down all along. But first they had to see them as a problem.

    John Brown– I don’t understand your point. All I said was he was a liberal and a misogynist which is true. And also that a history of domestic violence towards women is the unifying factor amongst shooters– which is a demonstrated fact not a theory. Not in anyway related to bizarre theories. Talk to the CDC if you think domestic violence as a factor is just another crackpot theory. Holds up better than Trump affiliation.

  26. Sad
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 8:59 am | Permalink

    If MM was a moderate he would have endorsed Mayor Pete instead of Warren.

    Warren has promised to take away private health insurance.

    I’ve heard that’s not so popular in union circles.

  27. dogmatic dolt
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 9:05 am | Permalink

    Aloha JH, waiting for a link. I’ve read the tweets contained on Heavy.com which seems to be the only web site that has posted them. Please help me find what you know exist.

    https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/connor-betts-twitter-politics-social-media/

    According to this web site (and this is the only mention of Sanders in the entire article) he tweeted, “He responded to a person’s tweet that read “if you nominate anyone other than sanders, you’re going to lose” by writing, “I think Warren has a decent shot, as well.”

    JH, please lead me to where you got your info.

  28. dogmatic dolt
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 9:13 am | Permalink

    Aloha Sad, I think that is the problem with moderates. They will impose additional burdens on working folks (ie. Obama with the individual mandate–now Warren with willing to take away individuals private insurance). The corporatist are fine with 5% of every dollar in the US economy goes to war. The corporatist are fine with imposing additional burdens on working folks. They get upset when we start talking about methods to minimize growing income inequality.

    I guess put this down to Putin Puppet work

  29. Jean Henry
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    Bernie’s not a progressive on guns, never has been. His fotsr response to the shootings was to blame mental illness: “I think all over the world people are looking at the United States and wondering what is going on, what is the mental health situation in America where time after time after time we’re seeing indescribable horrors.”

    Then he backtracked and suggested the NRA were not in alignment with the majority of Americans… Tough stuff.

  30. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    Death penalty

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2ZUTN8SgFo

  31. dogmatic doltw
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 9:38 am | Permalink

    Aloha JH, Still waiting for a link. Corporate Democrats are unable to run on the issues, so they resort to smears. For example the constant smearing of Gabbard as an Assad “apologist”. I gladly engage JH, HW in discussions on this web site–I don’t think discussing issues with folks makes you an “apologist”. I’m reasonably certain that neither JH or HW think of me in those term. You can not find any statement by Gabbard that indicates she thinks Assad is anything but a brutal dictator–but facts do not matter to Corporatist.
    Kamala Harris (anointed by many to be the nominee) ambushes Biden in the first debate basically calling him a racist. Gabbard (the only candidate to do so) came to Biden’s defense. And as a good Democrat, and a soldier (truth actually matters to soldiers) she gave Harris a chance to defend her actual record as Attorney General. Seems like that is what you want in a candidate. Harris paid no price among Democrats for her hatchet job in debate 1. Wonder Woman made her pay in debate 2.

  32. Jean Henry
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 9:39 am | Permalink

    Dolt– I read his tweets. The Account has been deleted by Twitter. He seemed to become politicized by the sanders 2016 campaign. He also appears to have been Incel. I’m sure the media will uncover more.

    His target seems to have been His sister and her boyfriend. No manifesto. Still the right doesn’t have a lock on violent, misogynistic assholes. It helps no one to pretend they do.

    -Extremism and fundamentalism of any kind can lead to terrorism.
    -Domestic violence is often a precursor to violence in other forms.
    These are my two main points. I don’t see how when can deny either without political motivation.

  33. dogmatic dolt
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 9:47 am | Permalink

    Aloha, interesting I’ve seen a number of my post to this page just disappear into the nether world. JH, still waiting for that web site.
    Corporatist cann’t run on the issues so they resort to smears. The constant smearing of Gabbard as an Assad apologist is typical.
    Of course the Corporate media do all they can to help their candidate. Harris seems to be the anointed one. She engages in a hatch attack on Biden in the 1st debate basically accusing him of being a racist. Corporate Dems, gave her a pass. Gabbard came to his defense (Biden is no racist). As a good soldier truth is important to Gabbard, so she decided to give Harris a chance to defend her record as Attorney General. Harris ducked and ran for cover–only had smears in response, typical of Corporate Democrats.
    JH, again where did you get the information that the Dayton shooter “supported Bernie hard in 2016”.

  34. Jean Henry
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    Shooter is being described by high school classmates as having threatened women who rejected him for the last ten years. They saw this coming. He made a target list in high school that got him kicked out of school but was able to buy a gun legally.

  35. Jean Henry
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    Dolt— from the shooters twitter feed. As I said above.

    I don’t rely on media alone. Was easy enough to check. Account has since been Deleted but press has access. It will all come out.

  36. truth squad
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    Sad said “Warren has promised to take away private health insurance.”

    This is not true.

    Warren did not “promise” to take away private insurance. She said that she favors a plan that would do that. There is a difference. We like in a country where the president does not rule by fiat. Things are negotiated and debated in Congress. The president doesn’t just make it so. She will fight for her vision, but what becomes law will likely be a compromise. It was with Obamacare, and it will be this time too. That’s how our system works.

  37. John Brown
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 10:00 am | Permalink

    JH, I totally agree that misogyny and toxic masculinity suck, and are correlated with violence. But nothing in any shooters profile excuses the political rights responsibility for creating a nation awash in high power guns.

  38. Jared Yates Sexton by proxy
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 10:03 am | Permalink

    The President of the United States just read an empty, insincere speech off a teleprompter, completely ignored his responsibility, gave no solutions, and even named the wrong city where a slaughter took place and pundits are falling over themselves to give him credit.

  39. dogmatic dolt
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 10:06 am | Permalink

    Aloha JH, you obviously have access to information I don’t. I told you where I got mine. Heavy.com. Every other web site I have looked at refers back to the Heavy.com article. I copied and shared the one comment in that article that they attribute to the shooter that mentions Sanders. All I want is to be enlightened like you, so please share your sources.

    I know I am a dolt, but can’t you help me out?

  40. Jean Henry
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    DD– The Shooter’s twitter feed has been deleted. But it was up and linked to on twitter and I read through some of it. It will take reporters a while to backtrack and confirm, so let’s wait until they do and present a more full and verified story.

    I can’t share a primary source that has been deleted. So now we need to wait for the press to share with us what they will.

    I have now answered you three times. Do you understand yet?

  41. Lynne
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 11:01 am | Permalink

    I just hope that we can all see that we have a problem with white men in this country. I am not at all surprised that Berne Bros are resorting to terrorism. The irony for me is that the more these yahoos get scared about being replaced, the more I think they need to be. We need to just stop listening to white dudes, especially when they get violent but also just their regular nonsense.

  42. dogmatic dolt
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 11:03 am | Permalink

    Aloha JH, thanks. I just find it very interesting that Heavy.com choice not to include any of the texts that you evidently read. I love how in your first post on the shooter you decide to smear Bernie supporters, while no one has the ability to fact check you. I know I am a dolt, but it just seems interesting. Love this line,” wait for the press to share with us what they will.” You and HW school me all day long. I’ll try to retain this lesson.

  43. dogmatic dolt
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    Aloha, A bit of good news, from the WEMU site, “The online message board 8chan, which has been linked to three mass shootings in 2019, will be terminated, Cloudfare announced late Sunday night, just hours after the site’s founder called for its end.”

  44. Jean Henry
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    JB–” nothing in any shooters profile excuses the political rights responsibility for creating a nation awash in high power guns.”

    Had you actually read what I wrote. you would see that I noted that the Dayton shooters previous threats of violence especially towards women did not limit his access to guns…

    I am not suggesting that we wait to overcome misogyny in America to address gun violence. I’m suggesting that a pattern of violent threats against others especially women and especially domestic violence should disqualify one from illegally purchasing guns. That and limits on high powered weaponry and better regulating private gun sales seem like an easyand obvious set of first steps.

    I’m fine with increasing health care coverage and availability for the mentally ill as well. A list of mentally ill people in the US for the purposes of limiting their access to guns would be a disaster though. 1) the mentally ill are less likely to be violent toward others and more likely to be victims of violence 2) many would not seek treatment so as not to be on that list– which would increase the risk of gun violence. 3) the stigma is bad enough for the mentally ill– promoting the false idea that they pose a threat to the public safety increasing their marginalization and the risk of violence against them.

  45. Jean Henry
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    *legally purchasing guns…

  46. John Brown
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

    Jh, I’m trying to agree with you….. really. Background checks must occur on all guns. No body with a “hit list” should pass a background check. No body with a past of violence should pass a background check. Nobody who cheers the suggestion of shooting immigrants at a trump rally should pass a background check.

    But right now any crazy violent nut, of any political alignment, can go on Armslist.com or migunowners.com and buy an AR or AK rifle for cash, no questions asked. There are literally zero controls at the same time as the gun companies optimize accessories and ammo for maximum lethality. Red dot, Lazer sights, fragmenting bullets, 100 rd mags.

  47. dogmatic dolt
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

    Aloha JH, not to be nitpicking or anything like that. All the bad things I’ve read about the Dayton shooter seems to be from his days in high school. Of course now that his twitter feed has disappeared I don’t know what kind of comments he has made since high school. The “hit” list and “rape” list seem to be from when he was in high school. The women who are bringing these things up seem to have been in school with him. Children say and do lots of stupid things. Should we use comments and actions of minor children to determine adult rights? Of course when I was 18 some one like the Dayton and the El Paso shooter would have been either recruited or drafted to serve the wars. Now that we rely upon an economic draft, privileged children have no way to connect their violent thoughts to real human action. An assault weapon ban like the one Gabbard, Sanders and most Democrats support would at least be a step in the right direction.

  48. Bob
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    I hope Bernie is the candidate for no other reason than Jean Henry will have to choose between being a Bernie bro and a Trump chump.

  49. dogmatic dolt
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

    Aloha Bob, This is a link to an interesting video on something called the Democratic Unity Fund. Some people are seeing that the DNC is back to trying to fix the nominating process in favor of selected/preferred candidates. I have no idea. Of course this is the problem, once your credibility is tarnished, people become suspicious.

    https://www.democraticunityfund.com/

  50. Anonymous
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 1:39 pm | Permalink

    What is the latest Qanon spin going to be? That those kids in El Paso were actually sex traffickers and since the deep state wouldn’t do anything about it, Trump had Bob Mueller send down a lackey to take care of it for them?

  51. dogmatic dolt
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    Aloha Anonymous, I suspect MK ultra and mind control will be the go to explanation.

    If anyone has control over their money in the stock market, now would be a good time to exit. Looking a lot like 2007-2008. All time market peak was just a couple weeks ago. Today biggest drop since Dec. 2018. In 07 the market was shook by the sale of Chrysler to Cereberus for a fraction of what Daimler had paid. The market rallied from that and then went on to hit a new high a few months later. If you look at what was actually going on then, it was extreme volatility caused by folks trying to cover theirs bets. The real economy ultimately caught up with them as asset prices plummeted. Huge drop in December followed by a volatile period producing a new high this past July. Trumps trade war seems to be coming home now as all real economic activity has been in decline despite rising stock prices.

    But remember I’m just a dolt and I would not take my advise when it comes to investing.

  52. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    “Lynne
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 11:01 am | Permalink
    I just hope that we can all see that we have a problem with white men in this country. I am not at all surprised that Berne Bros are resorting to terrorism. The irony for me is that the more these yahoos get scared about being replaced, the more I think they need to be. We need to just stop listening to white dudes, especially when they get violent but also just their regular nonsense.”

  53. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 2:14 pm | Permalink

    No such thing as psychiatrically drugged, mind controlled CIA murderers. You’d have to be stark raving mad to even think of such a thing. Why it’s absolutely PREPOSTEROUS!!!

  54. EOS
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    The right wing isn’t responsible for allowing civilians to own weapons – the Constitution is. The garlic festival was in a location that restricted weapons. The person intent on killing crossed state lines to obtain a weapon and commit his crimes. The criminal has the weapons, the victims have no defense. Those intent on killing innocent persons will always find a way.

    For more than 200 years, citizens have been allowed to own weapons. But it seems only recently that there have been mass shootings on a regular basis. What is the cause?

    It’s a spiritual thing – a growing demonic influence. The world is growing darker each year. You either serve God or you serve the devil. There is no middle ground. You cannot sit on the fence.

  55. dogmatic dolt
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    aloha, JB would call this unilateral disarmament–Ypsi gun buy back program this month

    https://mailchi.mp/thecream.org/support-the-ypsilanti-gun-buyback-program?fbclid=IwAR0s1pd3i2F0FM-AqrTa1bVMUQsL-8jsJEzGGeod0MBUxyBkgW1TABVP2ao

  56. dogmatic dolt
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

    Aloha EOS, if you look at the statistics, mass shootings and legalization of assault weapons co-relate. Weapons like assault type weapons were banned from the 1930’s–you still can’t buy a BAR. It was only with the mass proliferation of military type assault rifles that mass shootings have been normalized. The first mass shooter that I remember was the Texas Tower murders (1966). He had the weapons that were legal at the time, it took him nearly 2 hours to kill 17 innocents (including one unborn ,the last died in 2001 from her wounds). The Dayton murder was able to kill 8 and wound 27 in under one minute. The El Paso murderer took a little longer, but was more deadly. Then of course there is the Las Vegas murderer–but hey that is ancient history.

  57. John Brown
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

    Dolt, I really do not like guns. The fact that the political climate now includes explicit threat of violence from fascist forces does not thrill me. But if overt civil war happens it’s our responsibility to win it. Again.

    If anyone has a gun not kept secure by a person dedicated to defending the Constitution, they should by all means sell it back to the cops. Of course in Oakland County they’re having a public gun auction reselling all the confiscated guns. Makes perfect gun culture sense….

    Once we get this fascist flare-up contained, I’m really hoping we can have a Constitutional Convention in my lifetime. There’s some seriously archaic shit thats far to open to extreme judicial interpretation. It’s holding us back from having a progressive society that might have the will to reject the warmongers and fund the schools.

  58. Eel
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    Lynne: “We need to just stop listening to white dudes.”

    Mark: :(

  59. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

    Mass shooters of 2019 photo collage

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/mass-shooters-2019-557×600.jpg

    I know you have given in to hate but you can always turn it around. Either that or your shit will get turned around for you by reality.

  60. dogmatic dolt
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

    Aloha HW , there have been over 200 mass shootings in 2019. Your collage has only about half. What is your point?

  61. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

    Read it again. What is your point? 200 mass shootings. Do you think the ratio will drastically change when there are charges against someone in every case? Missing the forest for the…

  62. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

    So Betts’ account was iamthespookster. What is a spook? He was for Warren so she’s out as a possible candidate for people like you (collectively). You can’t be a mass murdering psychopath enabler enabler, right?

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/08/reports-dayton-shooter-supported-elizabeth-warren-hated-trump-and-ice/
    Heavy.com confirmed the Twitter account @iamthespookster belonged to Betts. His tweets expressed hatred for Trump and wanted to vote for Sen. Warren in 2020. In one tweet, Betts wrote he wanted socialism and did not want to “wait for the idiots to finally come around to understanding.”

    Betts lashed out against QAnon, ICE, and the police in other tweets.

  63. Meta
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

    Vice News: “EXCLUSIVE: The Dayton Shooter Was In a ‘Pornogrind’ Hardcore Band That Released Songs About Raping and Killing Women.”

    Before he killed nine people in a mass shooting in Dayton, Ohio, early Sunday, Connor Betts was deeply involved in the misogynistic, male-dominated “goregrind” or “pornogrind” extreme metal music scene. It has a regional following in the Midwest and is known for sexually violent, death-obsessed lyrics and dehumanizing imagery depicting women.

    Over the past year, the 24-year-old shooter occasionally performed live vocals in the band Menstrual Munchies, which released albums titled “6 Ways of Female Butchery” and “Preeteen Daughter Pu$$y Slaughter,” with cover art showing the rape and massacre of female bodies. He also performed with a group called Putrid Liquid.

    Now one of Betts’ bandmates, Jesse Creekbaum, 25, is taking the recordings down. He says he’s removing them out of fear the vulgar music he produced will make a cult hero out of the murderer, who was killed by police at the scene. He’s also received death threats online because of his association with Betts.

    Creekbaum, who has been writing and recording music under the name Menstrual Munchies for more than five years, says he did it mostly as a joke and now is sickened that Betts apparently took it all seriously.

    “I feel shitty having let him be in the band, doing those lyrics,” Creekbaum said. “Because I know, like, whereas I saw it as a joke — like, ‘Let’s play this and we’ll shock some people,’ and then the people that we know laugh — he didn’t see it as a joke. He was like, ‘Fuck, yeah. We’re gonna do this.’”

    Read more:
    https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/j5yekp/exclusive-dayton-shooter-was-in-a-pornogrind-band-that-released-songs-about-raping-and-killing-women

  64. Sad
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

    Yes HW.

    They should take away every bodies guns.

    Left wing right wing. Very little good comes from the barrel of a gun.

    ( sorry JB)

    It’s was sad to read the coverage of Chicago’s shootings over the weekend .

    Why doesn’t the President do something to help that city?

    I don’t think Major Pete wants to confiscate everybodies weapons.

    But I won’t hold it against him.

  65. Sad
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 8:55 pm | Permalink

    Ha-ha – Leading Republicans are blaming video games.

    Good company HW.

    Next they’ll say it’s comic books.

  66. iRobert
    Posted August 5, 2019 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

    Jesse Creekbaum is America

  67. John Brown
    Posted August 6, 2019 at 6:49 am | Permalink

    Sad, dont be sorry. I have no affection for guns. A progressive society that takes everyones guns by consensus is exactly what I’m willing to fight for. I just think the only thing worse than left and right both having guns is only the racist right having guns. But once all the genocidal “Purge” fantasy sickos are disarmed then lets repeal the 2A, by all means.

  68. Jean Henry
    Posted August 6, 2019 at 7:04 am | Permalink

    Bob– I would vote for Bernie in a hot minute. Zero qualms. I’ve voted for lots of assholes. I’m used to it. Assholes make good politicians.

    Dolt– What I saw on the shooter’s twitter feed related to politics was lots of Bernie support and then the statements re Warren recently as reported by Heavy. ThatBernie support was expressed by reposting lots of Bernie support memes in 2016, some anti-hillary and DNC etc. etc. Predictable. I guess he didn’t write anything in his own hand about Bernie, v what he wrote about Warren in response to a suggested Warren/Harris ticket (Warren was ok but not Harris because she’s a cop) which was hardly an endorsement.

    Unfortunately, Snopes chose to address the Warren question, not the Bernie one.

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/dayton-shooter-warren/

    What we know was that he hated women and expressed violent impulses towards them for decades. And again, this is the common denominator in most mass shootings over any other factor.

    I can assure you that, as a woman, I feel no satisfaction in pointing out that reality. I would like us to do something about misogyny and the patriarchy in our culture. That’s why I talk about it’s dramatic and more subtle impacts.

    This is not the right forum for that discussion, clearly. Practically the only area of discussion in which most commenters here align is in the insistence that misogyny isn’t a big problem (especially on the left) and feminists are overblowing the whole thing. Feminists are going to blow it for the everyone else pretty much sums up the common refrain here. It’s beyond absurd. Just look at how relentless the energy is to dismiss our perspective, despite all evidence.

  69. Jean Henry
    Posted August 6, 2019 at 7:10 am | Permalink

    JB– I have no idea how you can talk of purges and think they would ever lead to a less violent society. Your plan would unwittingly create exactly the scenario feard and addressed by the second amendment– a tyrannical government with all the weapons.

    The most salient argument gun advocates make is that, in totalitarian coups, one of the first acts has historically been to seize all private weapons.

    No sustainable good comes of dominance by force; Doesn’t matter what your intentions are.

    I believe in self-defense. Your rhetoric goes well beyond that.

  70. Jean Henry
    Posted August 6, 2019 at 7:25 am | Permalink

    “The “hit” list and “rape” list seem to be from when he was in high school. The women who are bringing these things up seem to have been in school with him. Children say and do lots of stupid things. ” — Dogmatic Dolt

    You keep exposing your own bad think, DD. You sound like iRobert defending Kavanaugh.

    In answer to the question that followed (“Should we use comments and actions of minor children to determine adult rights?”), it seems there was evidence of his antagonism towards women well beyond his high school years. I’m certain that if we had a country that truly cared about violent threats made against women, both during school years (when much of it occurs) and after, we would have had the information necessary to deny this guy a gun.

    Laws are on the books preventing people with domestic violence records from owning weapons. Unfortunately, very few perpetrators of such violence ever end up getting prosecuted. A list of prosecuted rapists would produce similar results.

    How would you suggest fixing that problem?

  71. dogmatic dolt
    Posted August 6, 2019 at 8:22 am | Permalink

    Aloha JH, Thank you for helping me understand (you know I am a dolt and frequently have to be told things multiple times). My question is why do you Corporate Democrats preach Democratic unity, and then take absolutely cheap shots at those in the party you disagree with. Harris virtually calling Joe Biden a racist (the man is ancient, of course he worked with racist in his past–does not make him a racist) And then you taking the first opportunity you get to strike out at “Berni bros”—and you want to defeat Trump–SHAMEFUL. If guys like Harris, Lynn and you keep it up you can guarantee Trump another 4. I understand JH it is reflexive for you guys, Hit left, move right, but try to restrain yourself.

  72. dogmatic dolt
    Posted August 6, 2019 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    Aloha JH, I am basically opposed to guns, there only real purpose is to kill. First thing is reenstate the assault weapon ban. But dealing with the culture of violence and the hate towards woman and minorities is a much bigger problem. I am beginning to come around to mandatory service for all at age 18. Parents have given up on trying to teach discipline and purpose to their children. If privileged white boys had to spend two years getting along with ghetto folks, and have to listen to woman superiors (for example) we would build a different culture. With the effects of climate change poised to destroy most of our current culture, mandatory service in furtherance of civil needs (ie. CCC model perhaps) might go along way towards building a culture based on service to others. Tulsi talks about this a lot by the way. My libertarian and anarchist friends would of course be outraged, but our current culture seems to be going headlong into a suicidal finish. We are like the deranged husband one murders his kids and wife before doing himself in. How do you stop a culture bent on murder and mayhem?

  73. dogmatic dolt
    Posted August 6, 2019 at 8:41 am | Permalink

    JH, Of course being a dolt I failed to mention the elephant in the room–END THE REGIME CHANGE WARS. The two service men killed in Afghanistan last week were 2 and 6 when we started these wars. When we have an entire generation that has been taught that our “Warriors” are great, and of course to be great you must de-humanize the other—How do you think cultures based on perpetual war always treat minorities and woman?

  74. Bob
    Posted August 6, 2019 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    So the shooter’s awful comments as a young person are fair game, Jean, but Tulsi Gabbard spouting gay conversion therapy nonsense as a younger person shouldn’t be in play? I’m pretty sure you threw that horseshit at me a few months back.

  75. John Brown
    Posted August 6, 2019 at 10:26 am | Permalink

    “Why unmoderated online spaces always degenerate into fascism” (MM not excepted)

    https://www.alternet.org/2019/08/why-unmoderated-online-spaces-always-degenerate-into-fascism/

  76. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted August 6, 2019 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    “guns, there only real purpose is to kill.”

    Pretty sure the vast majority of gun owners are trying to not get killed or raped or tied up and robbed; defense.

  77. Lynne
    Posted August 6, 2019 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    This seems like a good time for this essay

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/11/21/making-america-white-again

  78. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted August 6, 2019 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    Non-moderation is an anarchic ideal though. Does anarchy = fascism? How do you feel about Soviet style Communism?

    I see propagandists like you using every hateful thing you can think of to smear people with lies. You walk the tightrope of satire and incitement to violence with your calls for race war in the USA and personal attacks on people like me. Too bad you are wrong in fact over and over. Reality trumps opinion.

  79. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted August 6, 2019 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    Why should I read trash put up by a bigot?

  80. dogmatic dolt
    Posted August 6, 2019 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    Aloha Bob, I think the difference is that Tulsi has repudiated her childhood indoctrination. Her service in the Army serving with Americans of all races, genders, and religions changed her world view–and has made her the leader she is today. The question should be, Do you believe what you believed when you were 21, and if not what caused you to change. It is pretty clear that nothing of substance changed in the Dayton shooter’s life to change his misogynistic opinions and actions.
    The next question should be, Why did the Dayton shooter have the view that he did and Why didn’t anything cause the Dayton shooter to change his world outlook and behavior?
    If a person becomes a mass murderer, his entire life becomes fair game for evaluation. Clearly his mom and dad failed their daughter at a minimum. (feel free to substitute for Dayton, El Paso, Gilroy, Virginia Beech, Highland Ranch–these are the ones since May)

  81. Frosted Flakes
    Posted August 6, 2019 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    Morrison continuously slides into the logic of bigotry in that piece. Not good.

  82. Sad
    Posted August 6, 2019 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

    For Christ sake she just died.

    Can’t you hold your tongue for one minute and show a little respect?

    I’ll have to check Mayor Petes Twitter. I bet he has something nice to say.

  83. Sad
    Posted August 6, 2019 at 8:19 pm | Permalink

    Toni Morrison’s writing called America to understand the consequences of slavery and segregation, and challenged the world to wrestle with what it means to be beautiful and beloved. Like millions, I am better for having learned from her exquisite understanding of humanity.

    I knew Mayor Pete would say something nice.

    Our only hope is the young people. Hopefully they don’t even know what Frosted Flakes are.

  84. Jean Henry
    Posted August 6, 2019 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

    Bob– I don’t remember that conversation but I have no idea why believing in gay conversion therapy however awful) would be a reason to prevent someone from owning a gun.

    I do however believe in the right of juveniles to have their records expunged. Our friend’s misogynistic behavior did not stop in high school as Mark pointed out. He just entered adulthood where such behavior meets no resistance.

    I’m making a point about violence towards women (and threats are violence) is a common denominator among mass shooters. So is suicidality. Suicidality alone is a legal reason to deny gun purchase. These rules aren’t enforced.

    You are consistently incorrect in your assumptions about me and my beliefs.

    Oh well. Don’t really care.

  85. Frosted Flakes
    Posted August 6, 2019 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

    I liked some of her writing and some of it not too much at all. I am sorry Sad. I am just now hearing that she passed away. I didn’t know.

  86. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted August 7, 2019 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    El Paso shooter took John Brown’s advice.

    https://www.whio.com/news/local/dayton-shooter-was-armed-counter-protester-klux-klan-rally/OjUttVmHRpmBGqHNRGXyoL/

  87. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted August 8, 2019 at 10:11 am | Permalink

    How do you like officially being an advocate for the behavior of a psychopathic mass murderer? You said people should go down there with guns and cheered when they did. Well one of those people actually went psycho with a gun.

  88. Frosted Flakes
    Posted August 8, 2019 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    This should be in the Dayton shooter thread–Oh wait, there isn’t one.

    The Dayton shooter has a patch which reads “Against All Gods”. A question for Fake John Brown: Should we take his apparent atheism as a sign of his rationality?

  89. Frosted Flakes
    Posted August 8, 2019 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    One common theme with the right wing mass shooters is they talk about “fake news”.

    I know that the tendency here is to associate any utterance of the term “fake news” with Trump but wouldn’t it be a better idea to do a little self-reflection on how we as individuals might be participants in fake news/ propaganda/ lies? Doesn’t Mark and the readers here have a responsibility to self-reflect on the stories they might be getting wrong? In the same way that many here find Trump’s rhetoric reckless, I find many of the narratives espoused here to be highly irresponsible. Isn’t it possible that one of the lies we tell today might be the straw that breaks the camels back when received by a possibly dangerous and socially alienated person? Rather than associate a phrase with Trump so that we can blame him, maybe we should try harder to determine if the the things we are saying ACTUALLY are complete bullshit?

    #rightsideofhistory
    #abovethefraybecauseiselfrighteouslyassumeiamright
    #doingthenecessarywork
    #destructivenarrative
    #thepowerofuntruths

  90. EOS
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    53 Americans died in mass shootings in August, 40,000 died from obesity, and 93,000 were killed by abortions.

  91. Sad
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 10:00 am | Permalink

    What’s your source of the abortion number EOS?

    I thought with the decline in abortions the number would be much lower?

2 Trackbacks

  1. […] « Yet another young white male with a gun goes on a killing rampage citing the racist “great… […]

  2. […] and other presidents have done. He did not even pretend to pray for everyone’s safety. No, less than two weeks after a white, racist gunman took the lives of 22 in El Paso, the President of the United States deliberately chose not to note the rise in racist right-wing […]

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