U.S. Intelligence chiefs warn that our government is lying to us, placing our democracy in peril. (At what point can we start using the word treason?)

For those of you who might have missed the Senate Intelligence Committee testimony of FBI Director Christopher Wray, CIA Director Mike Pompeo, Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats, NSA Director Mike Rogers, Defense Intelligence Agency Director Robert Ashley, and National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency Director Robert Cardillo this afternoon, I can sum it up in three points… 1. There is no doubt whatsoever that the Russians actively sought to disrupt the American political system during the 2016 election, and succeeded at it. 2. We know for a certainty that the Russians have plans to interfere in our 2018 midterm elections. 3. The Trump administration has done absolutely nothing to stop this from happening.

Here, for those of you who might not trust my analysis, are a few quotes from the men referenced above, who, by the way, were in unanimous agreement as to the seriousness of the threat that we’re facing as a nation.

Dan Coats: “There should be no doubt that Russia perceives its past efforts as successful, and views the 2018 U.S. midterm elections as a potential target for Russian influence operations.”

Christopher Wray: “We have seen Russian activity and intentions to have an impact on the next election cycle.”

Mike Rogers: “(As Russian interference) is not going to change or stop… (we need) to ensure the American people that their vote is sanctioned and not manipulated in any way.”

And that brings us to the non-existent Trump response… The following clip comes by way of the Washington Post.

…At a Senate Intelligence Committee hearing on worldwide threats, Democrats demanded to know what the intelligence community is doing to counter Russia’s actions and whether Trump has given explicit directions to them to do so.

“We cannot confront this threat, which is a serious one, without a whole-of-government response when the leader of the government continues to deny that it exists,” said Sen. Angus King (I-Maine).

The disconnect between Trump and his senior-most intelligence advisers has raised concerns that the U.S. government will not be able to mount an effective plan to beat back Russian influence operations in the upcoming midterm election. And Director of National Intelligence Daniel Coats said there is “no single agency in charge” of blocking Russian meddling, an admission that drew the ire of Democrats…

When asked by Senator Jack Reed if President Trump had given any specific directions to combat the Russian interference being discussed, not a single one of the intelligence chiefs could say that they had been asked by the President to either focus on, or disrupt Russian election meddling. Mike Rogers responded to Reed by saying, “I can’t say I’ve been given explicit directives to actively blunt or stop” Russian activities.

As Senator Sheldon Whitehouse later asked the administration by way of social media, “So what are you doing? Sanctions? Cyber bill? Transparency? None of the above?” The answer, of course, is none of the above. Absolutely nothing is being done. And, what’s worse, the Republicans in Congress are allowing it to happen. Our elected members of Congress, if they wanted to, could institute the sanctions against Russia that President Trump has refused to enact. They, however, don’t seem inclined to act, either because the Russians have leverage over them, or because they’ve decided somewhat cynically that they’re OK with these Russian attacks so long as they help to keep Republicans in power… Thankfully, though, Democrats like Joe Kennedy are beginning to talk about going around the President in order to take action, and there’s a chance that we might be able to make good on that promise later this year, assuming the Democrats can take back the House and Senate.

Trump would never call Russia out publicly, let alone declare that these actions of theirs are acts of war, but, make no mistake, that’s exactly what they are… We are at war. Our President is a traitor. And the GOP is complicit. [I know “traitor” is a strong word, but if Trump can call Democrats “treasonous” for not applauding him, I can call him a traitor for not taking action to stop hostile foreign attacks, right?]

We have been attacked. You’ve just heard the heads of our national security agencies say as much. We have the evidence. And yet, the Republicans, who control every lever of power in this country, refuse to take action. This is bigger than just the President. This isn’t just “one bad apple.” If it were, the Republican members of Congress would be up in arms, demanding to know why, over a year later, the White House has refused to call even a single cabinet meeting to discuss the Russian threat, or act on the sanctions that passed both the House and the Senate with overwhelming bipartisan majorities (419-to-3 in the House and 98-to-2 in the Senate).

But, wait, there’s more.

These intelligence chiefs, in addition to warning us about the Russian threat and the White House’s inaction, also did three other pretty incredible things today.

One, they let us know, in no uncertain terms, that the Nunes memo was bullshit.

Two, they let it be known that, a few days ago, when Trump attempted to prove the existence of an intelligence community plot against him, he knew full well that the story that he was pushing was a lie.

Three, they threw White House Chief of Staff John Kelly and others under the bus, making it clear that they’d known about Rob Porter’s history of domestic abuse a hell of a lot earlier than they’d let on.

I have little faith that it will move the Republicans to act, but I appreciate that the intelligence community is stepping up and letting it be known that our government is both lying to us and placing our democracy in peril.

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60 Comments

  1. EOS
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 5:50 am | Permalink

    1. Russia can’t threaten “our democracy” because we don’t have one. We have a constitutional republic. Try to be more accurate.

    2.. Don’t use Facebook posts as the determining factor for deciding who to vote for. Read legitimate sources. (And unfortunately, these sources no longer include mainstream media) Yes, Russia made fake news Facebook posts. How dare they?

    3. Those intelligence chiefs no longer have any credibility. Their interference in partisan politics in the last election and their collusion with the Obama administration is real.

  2. Anonymous
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 7:15 am | Permalink

    Meanwhile, Hannity and the people at Fox are concerned about “secret sperm” hidden in a painting of Obama.

  3. Anonymous
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 7:20 am | Permalink

    1. We have a representative democracy.
    2. Mark quoted directly from the testimony of Trump appointees, so your “questionable sources” argument holds no water.
    3. See number two. (These men are Trump appointees.)

    The bottom line is that our intelligence agencies are in agreement as to what happened and Trump’s failure to respond.

  4. Anonymous
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    The Nunes memo was a cherrypicked lie. The administration knew about Porter’s susceptibility to blackmail and did nothing. Trump knowingly lied about the existence of a CIA plot against him. These are verifiable facts.

  5. Mark
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 7:41 am | Permalink

    Thank the lord not everyone is on board for WWIII

    https://www.thenation.com/article/russiagate-or-intelgate/

  6. stupid hick
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    “unfortunately, these sources no longer include mainstream media”

    “Those intelligence chiefs no longer have any credibility.”

    Yet you can not tell from his own words and actions that “Trump is a compulsive, self-serving, liar”? That’s what puzzles me about you EOS.

  7. EOS
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    Anonymous,

    1. Please read the constitution.

    2. Facebook posts were the method Russia used to influence our election that all the intelligence agencies agree on

    3. Trump’s appointees have the hard task of restoring some legitimacy to our intelligence agencies. It’s an uphill battle.

    Stupid Hick,

    Trump sometimes speaks when he shouldn’t and I wish he would stop tweeting. But I’m liking a lot of his decisions. We just pulled out of a UN treaty that diminished our sovereignty over our national borders. But I guess mainstream media chose not to report it. I’ve never cared for him personally. I do like Sarah Hucklebee and Nikki Haley. For someone who is supposedly a misogynist he certainly attracts intelligent, competent women.

  8. Jean Henry
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

    EOS– please look beyond the words used in the Constitution to how those are applied currently. Obviously the constitutional Republic we have is a form of indirect democracy. Obviously our country was founded explicitly on democratic principles (with the Republic structure allowing under-represented minorities a more fair say in governance that they would have under direct democracy). The very concept of a Republic form of governance in ancient Greece was part and parcel of the inception of the the concept of the Democratic ideal. (passing to Doug Skinner another opportunity to get some Plato on) EOS, you are such a literalist (and conveniently so) that you miss the forest for the trees.

    This point, as most of yours, is meant to throw into question the whole of Mark’s sound points, because of an trumped up accusation of inaccuracy.

    It’s a standard rhetorical tactic of yours. Maybe it works among your idiot fundamentalist friends with their black & white thinking, but it’s not playing here. You are only making an argument to yourself to justify your denial the very real threat to the democratic ideals that are the foundation of our Republic. You are a most corrupt human being.

    [“It must be acknowledged that the term “republic” is of very vague application in every language… Were I to assign to this term a precise and definite idea, I would say purely and simply it means a government by its citizens in mass, acting directly and personally according to rules established by the majority; and that every other government is more or less republican in proportion as it has in its composition more or less of this ingredient of direct action of the citizens.” –Thomas Jefferson to John Taylor, 1816.

    For Jefferson, then, a pure republic and a pure democracy are quite the same. Instead of focusing on the tendency towards factions in a pure republic/democracy, Jefferson instead focused on the impracticableness of a “pure republic” for a great nation, for he went on to say:

    “Such a government is evidently restrained to very narrow limits of space and population. I doubt if it would be practicable beyond the extent of a New England township.” –Thomas Jefferson to John Taylor, 1816.]

    http://eyler.freeservers.com/JeffPers/jefpco55.htm

  9. kjc
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

    ” I do like Sarah Hucklebee and Nikki Haley. For someone who is supposedly a misogynist he certainly attracts intelligent, competent women.”

    crying laughing

  10. wobblie
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

    I disagree with apologist of the system such as JH. We have been a plutocracy throughout the existence of the Republic. The US Senate is the primary mechanism used historically for the plutocracy to function. Even calling us a representative democracy is no longer accurate. How much representation do you have when you are one of 700,000? When the 2nd Republic was established it was 30,000 per representative (we had a republic before we had the constitution).
    Since the passage of the Permanent Apportionment Act of 1929 limiting the number in the US House of Representatives at 435 the “popular” lower house of Congress has also been over run by sycophants of the plutocracy . Even such main stream research organizations like the Economist no longer refer to the US as a democracy. Rather they refer to us as a “flawed democracy”.

  11. Jean Henry
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

    ” I do like Sarah Hucklebee and Nikki Haley. For someone who is supposedly a misogynist he certainly attracts intelligent, competent women.”

    He’s the damn president. He has POWER. Of course he was able to find women to speak for him when he and many of the men who work for him are accused of assault and abuse of women. Just as he was able to find a few people of color to campaign for him and be stooges for him at the State of the Union. It’s all a smokescreen, but Trump’s numbers of women and POC supporters don’t lie.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/01/22/white-women-helped-elect-trump-now-hes-losing-their-support/?utm_term=.e24293e43082

  12. Jean Henry
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 1:20 pm | Permalink

    The Economist naming us a ‘flawed democracy’ was in direct response to Trump’s election, especially Russian interference, Wobblie, not some Act in 1929.

    I never said we were perfect. I’m speaking to democratic ideals AND the institutions that serve them, however imperfectly. You are just getting up on your political grandstand formed of bullshit to assert being more lefty than thou… again.

    Obviously our democracy is in peril and always was vulnerable (“a Republic, if you can keep it”–BF). The truth is it’s a fucking miracle that we made it this well, this far, given how large and diverse our nation is relative to almost any other nation on earth. You might be well served to look at how we survived this far as a Republic under the same constitution. It’s easy to wag fingers. Being grateful and appreciative of what works is much harder work. Seeking to create change while preserving what works is even harder. Your nostalgia for the golden age of manufacturing– a time of greater racism, inequity, poverty, voter fraud and illness in our country– distorts your political perspective to the point of absurdity.

  13. EOS
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    Jean,

    “it means a government by its citizens in mass, acting directly and personally according to rules established by the majority”

    The Constitution is the set of rules established by the majority. If you want to change the Constitution, then there is a process to amend it. The founding fathers were very aware of the difference between a democracy and a constitutional republic. They intentionally chose not to enact a democracy. A democracy is mob rule and it is the form of government which is very difficult to have unless it is a very small community. Jefferson was the radical who wrote the Declaration of Independence. Madison led the writing of the constitution. I defer to Madison on this issue.

    Stop trying to interpret motives behind everything I write and focus on the issue under discussion. You don’t have the slightest idea what my motivation is – it is not possible for you to know that. No one can know. But persons reacting to what they perceive another person’s motives to be is a major source of conflict in many situations.

  14. Jean Henry
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

    EOS: “[Madison] drew a distinction between a republic and a pure democracy when he wrote, “A republic, by which I mean a government in which the scheme of representation takes place…” and then, “Let us examine the points in which it varies from pure democracy…”

    Please note again my point that a Republic is a form of indirect democracy, not a pure democracy, but still a democracy.

    You have dragged me off into the weeds again. I didn’t ascribe to you any motive. I, in fact, believe that your mind is so twisted with ideology that you probably dont intend the logical fallacies you peddle here. No one is more fooled by them than you.

    Don’t lecture me on how to engage you. I am buying exactly nothing of what you are selling. I don’t give a damn what you would like. In fact, I would like to make you as uncomfortable as possible when ever possible.

  15. Jean Henry
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

    Meanwhile, more winning for jobs and the economy: http://www.businessinsider.com/walmart-is-firing-more-store-managers-after-raising-wages-2018-2

  16. Eel
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

    I like how, absent the Warlord, EOS is making an effort to reestablish himself as the ruler of Crazy Town.

  17. Iron Lung
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    “” I do like Sarah Hucklebee and Nikki Haley. For someone who is supposedly a misogynist he certainly attracts intelligent, competent women.”

    crying laughing”

    This is unbelievably funny.

  18. Iron Lung
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    “I like how, absent the Warlord, EOS is making an effort to reestablish himself as the ruler of Crazy Town.”

    The Mr. Warlord and EOS are fighting a right wing battle for power on this site.

    Who will win the righty war?

  19. Jean Henry
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

    For those interested in participating a bit more directly in preserving our Republic and the democratic principles upon which it was founded, the ACLU is beginning a nationwide push to protect voting rights and encourage voter participation state by state.
    Call​ ​To​ ​Action​ ​Goal​ ​(Michigan)
    The call to action is to persuade the Michigan state legislature to enact key voting modernizations, including:
    ● Online voter registration. 35 other states and DC already do.
    ● No-reason absentee voting. 27 other states and DC already do.
    ● Portable registration, to ensure registered voters in Michigan remain registered and able to vote when
    they move within Michigan. 21 other states and DC already do.
    ● Pre-registration of 16 and 17 year olds, to ensure eligible citizens can vote as soon as they turn 18. 18
    other states and DC already do.
    ● Election Day registration, to ensure eligible citizens are able to register to vote up to and including on
    Election Day. 15 other states and DC already do.
    ● Automatic voter registration, to ensure eligible citizens are registered when they transact business with a
    government agency. 9 states and DC already do.

    There is a preliminary informational meeting in Ann Arbor next Wednesday night at 6pm: https://go.peoplepower.org/event/action_attend/12463?akid=s48379..DujNEX

  20. Jean Henry
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    There is also this new MI voting rights ballot initiative: https://promotethevotemi.com/

    It follows on the heals of the successful, all volunteer(!) Voters Not Politicians redistricting reform signature drive. And the federal courts ruling against partisan gerrymandering in PA and other states. If things continue as they have been going, 2018 could be a banner year for election reform in the US. Pressure is coming hard at the local and state levels where it is most needed and effective. We may be at a tipping point, if enough people engage. It’s worth the effort of a few jumps on the far end of the arc of history.

  21. Lynne
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

    FWIW, the “no reason” absentee voting is one of those things that is more a theoretical change than an actual one. As I have explained to many people, the Michigan rule is that you can vote absentee if you expect to be out of town on election day. I expect Brad Pitt to sweep me off my feet to Paris on election day. There is nothing that says that expectation has to be realistic. People have all kinds of expectations.

  22. EOS
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

    https://youtu.be/pTwh2yAdzGw

  23. EOS
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

    https://youtu.be/E-gEkKzRvbI

  24. Jean Henry
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

    EOS if that kind of simplistic bullshit (like 6th grade civics level) is where you get your understanding of the difference between a republic and a democracy then no wonder you are confused. Again.
    Last time— We have a republic form of governance which is a form of indirect democracy not a direct democracy which is non-existent outside of communes.

    Grow up and start talking about Russian interference in our elections and what you would like to see the US do about it.

  25. Jean Henry
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

    Lynne– My understanding is the ACLU is concerned about the current lax enforcement of absentee voting rules being vulnerable to tightening up under Trump & co. This has been happening in many fields– immigration, etc. And it requires no legislation to implement. It may require legislation to prevent.

  26. EOS
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

    http://lexrex.com/enlightened/AmericanIdeal/aspects/demrep.html

  27. EOS
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

    http://theroadtoemmaus.org/RdLb/21PbAr/Pl/Cnst/Rpub~Dmoc.htm

  28. EOS
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

    http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/wew/articles/fee/democracy.htm

  29. Lynne
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

    JH, ah. I hadn’t thought of that. I am glad I started that regular donation to the ACLU!

    The only way to get EOS to care about election meddling would be if it were a really liberal country with the intent of promoting socialism that did it. If Cuba had successfully gotten Bernie Sanders elected along with an uber-liberal congress which started putting single payer healthcare and a universal basic income in place, trust me THEN she would care. EOS is fine with it when it works in her favor.

  30. wobblie
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

    JH, ” direct democracy which is non-existent outside of communes. ” Don’t be so sure. The Syrian Kurds of Rojava practice direct participatory democracy. They not only practice democracy they actually practice equality. They elect one woman and one man for every position. They manage to do this despite being at war with the Takfir jihadist and Turkey. As long as you dismiss the possible and believe in the lesser of two evils–all you will ever get is evil.

    Talk to the members of the Womans Protective Units about direct democracy and the rejection of lesser evils.

  31. wobblie
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

    This seems like a more likely manner that the Russians influenced the election.

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-trump-russia-nra-connection-heres-what-you-need-to-know-w515615

  32. wobblie
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 10:17 pm | Permalink

    The woman of the YPJ
    https://twitter.com/DefenseUnitsYPJ

  33. wobblie
    Posted February 14, 2018 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

    For those who might want to know more about how democracy and equality can work in practice.

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/amber-huff-salima-tasdemir-patrick-huff/why-defendafrin-confronting-authoritarian-populism-with-radi

  34. EOS
    Posted February 15, 2018 at 2:03 am | Permalink

    In a democracy, an individual has only those rights that the majority deem appropriate to grant. If they have the authority to give you rights, then they have the authority to take them from you as well. In a republic, the individual has god-given rights which are protected by law and not subject to majority approval. Our Constitution was written to limit government interference of individual liberty.

  35. EOS
    Posted February 15, 2018 at 6:44 am | Permalink

    http://www.shestokas.com/constitution-educational-series/why-the-united-states-was-designed-as-a-republic/

  36. EOS
    Posted February 15, 2018 at 6:51 am | Permalink

    http://capitalismmagazine.com/2003/01/republic-democracy-whats-the-difference/

  37. Jcp2
    Posted February 15, 2018 at 7:38 am | Permalink

    I find it interesting that god given rights need the protection of man made laws. I tried to exercise my right to fly last night, but I only ended up jumping off the couch.

  38. Maria Huffman
    Posted February 15, 2018 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    Eos, today please dont post your shit..dont use the wrd appropriate and constitution together and, go lick snyders boots somewhere else

  39. Maria E. Huffman
    Posted February 15, 2018 at 8:50 am | Permalink

    Hey maybe eos support barnes and noble and buying more crappy books that scare kids, another hunger trilogy? and wonder..why are the kids so freaked out?????
    public private partnerships dont’ always work…maybe the kid read the hunger games and docs left that kid on steroids for years…
    idk.
    point is, it is completely legal to harass and discriminate against students, because some people decide something else is not appropriate. like eos..

  40. Maria E. Huffman
    Posted February 15, 2018 at 8:59 am | Permalink

    rick snyder, who thinks actually anyone from detroit is , in fact a dirtbag….and a scammer, and if someone worked there, ever, the same…
    he has trust issues,that man. serious,serious, trust issues….

  41. Maria E. Huffman
    Posted February 15, 2018 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    rick snyder mr. non appropriate… i am emailing my cousin one day on the west side and who should show up in the sheriffs van and do a kturn in front of me? what part of Lorena isn’t going to save his ass does he not get?

  42. Maria E. Huffman
    Posted February 15, 2018 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    Yeah well, if I ever win a lot of money or any money in any lawsuit, I will give it to detroit medical center patients, all of them,except any person who ever worked with my children, ever. however, I have never sued someone and I have never been sued and I expect to keep it that way.
    and I will ask Mike Duggan to manage the money, to give to the patients…for medicines only.

  43. Maria E. Huffman
    Posted February 15, 2018 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    and the money, if collected for a lawsuit that I will never okay…would go to medicines for discharged patients only, insulins, high blood pressure medicines, phenytoin, etc . …and no experimental medicines, at all.
    Sincerely, Maria Huffman

  44. Jean Henry
    Posted February 15, 2018 at 9:48 pm | Permalink

    ripped from the pages of FB:
    “I dunno, it’s just the height of hilarity to me that every time gun control comes up, the things that get suggested are shit like “psych exams”, “keep felons/criminals from getting them”, etc, while the defense for keeping guns is self-defense.

    Let’s look at this for a second. Mentally ill people are, as a group, less than *half* as likely to commit a violent crime (with or without a gun) and something like 6 times *more* likely to be victims of violent crime. I want a gun. I’ve been practicing, I’ve been learning lots of stuff, and I want one. Why? Because the guy that beat the shit out of me for 4 years and orchestrated by gang rape lives 2 hours away. But when I went to get a gun, my psych history was looked at and I couldn’t get one because I have PTSD. The asshole that caused it can get one because he was never convicted of anything.

    People of colour, already disproportionately targeted by the police and the legal system, tend to also have a disproportionate number of felons *as a result* of that scrutiny, but also get targeted by white supremacists. White supremacists don’t get targeted by gun control laws.

    Law enforcement has killed *more people in the last 2 years* than mass shooters have in the entire history of mass shootings being a thing. Gun control advocates will not even discuss disarming the police. Or the military, who would be called in if we *did* disarm the police.

    We’re willing to put the blame for this shit on guns, mental illness, medication, social isolation, etc. We will *never* look at the fact that while most of America is armed (and yeah, like, it’s *most of America*) there is only ONE demographic of people doing stuff like this.

    White. Men.”

  45. Jean Henry
    Posted February 15, 2018 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

    oops. wrong thread…

  46. Meta
    Posted February 16, 2018 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    The Intercept: “Is Donald Trump a traitor?”

    “Given all this, it seems increasingly likely that the Russians have pulled off the most consequential covert action operation since Germany put Lenin on a train back to Petrograd in 1917.”

    https://theintercept.com/2018/02/16/trump-russia-election-hacking-investigation/

  47. Kyle Griffin by proxy
    Posted February 16, 2018 at 10:34 am | Permalink

    The FBI reportedly obtained photos of the bruised face of Colbie Holderness, the first ex-wife of Rob Porter, just 7 days after Trump’s inauguration last year.

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/politics/don-mcgahn-rob-porter-fbi-photo/index.html

  48. Jean Henry
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

    To put some truth to EOS’s lie: a useful state by state tally of gun regulations and gun violence. From the National Journal, to which I dont have access, so a FB shot: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4559603226485&set=a.1242759667469.2028846.1183651094&type=3&theater

  49. Jean Henry
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

    Intercept is changing its tune. Guess the Russia investigation is not all just a war mongering waste of time after all.

  50. EOS
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

    @ JH,

    Oops, you’re on the wrong thread again. My original statement concerned cities, not states. The violence gets diluted when you look at the state as a whole. Almost every state has very little gun violence outside of a few densely populated cities. Don’t call me a liar when it’s your own ignorance that misinterprets.

  51. Iron Lung
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    But STATES that have loose gun laws have higher gun deaths.

    So I really don’t know what you are talking about.

    9 of 10 states with the most gun deaths got a F for gun control from a watchdog group. The other got a D-.

  52. Jean Henry
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

    Oops. Nope again EOS.
    All that gets diluted when we go to states v cities is the population density. Per capita violence in rural areas is higher. https://www.citylab.com/equity/2013/07/youre-more-likely-die-violent-death-rural-america-city/6312/

  53. Iron Lung
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

    People are kidding themselves if they think that violence only occurs in cities.

  54. Iron Lung
    Posted February 17, 2018 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

    A nice map

    http://lawcenter.giffords.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/map-copy3-lg.jpg

  55. EOS
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 1:51 am | Permalink

    JH – Do you even read what you link to?

    from your link: “Yes, homicide-related death rates are significantly higher in urban parts of the country”

    Post a link that shows urban centers in states that have more gun laws have reduced rates of murder by guns than comparable cities elsewhere and you might have an argument. Washington DC has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the nation. How’s that working for them?

  56. Jean Henry
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 6:01 am | Permalink

    “ As for guns, the risk of firearm-related death is actually pretty consistent across the country, population-wide. But firearm deaths are significantly higher in rural areas for children and people over age 45. In the city, they’re much higher for people aged 20 to 44.”

    Yeah I read it.

  57. Jean Henry
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 6:06 am | Permalink

    It seems EOS that you believe a cities rate of murder is created by its gun laws, rather than that gun control laws are more likely to be implemented in some cities with high crime rates already (which usually correlate to rates of poverty, housing and job insecurity and illegal drug use) .

  58. Jcp2
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 6:28 am | Permalink

    It goes along with the welfare causing poverty and disability trope. Get rid of it and all problems will be better. Next proposal could be getting rid of emergency rooms and trauma centers. The number of accidents would decrease.

  59. wobblie
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 8:22 am | Permalink

    We can in a “bi-partisan” manner increase the defense budget by 165 billion dollars in a blink of an eye, but some how Sanders proposal for free universal college education (cost 65 billion) is unattainable.

    Until we end the wars none of our social ills will be addressed.

  60. Jean Henry
    Posted February 18, 2018 at 8:46 am | Permalink

    Wobblie– Sanders numbers on free college education were whack. It was not universal college; it was public colleges. The plan required considerable additional buy in from states and if they didn’t agree to pay for it, they could opt out. So we would have had some states with free college and others without, and likely the wealthier states would offer it, creating greater economic inequity. Since we don’t have a federal university system, but a state one, that is the place for the work. We could create state by state reform to prove the model and discover best practices. There was talk of this approach after the election, but not much has emerged yet. That’s not happening. Maybe it will soon. (U-M and a few other places offer free tuition for those with household incomes under 60 grand a year) . Looking at why its not happening is likely more useful than belly aching about how easy it would be if everyone cared as much as you do.
    Reform is not just about where you put the money. How matters.
    The good news is that state by state reform means we can have an impact locally. So I assume you are active and working on this issue or climate action at a state level right, Wobblie?

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