Hell yes, Donald Trump should be impeached

The more that comes out about what happened on January 6 in Washington, DC, the more clear it is to me that Donald Trump needs to be immediately removed from office, and I’m thankful for those 200-some elected Democrats, like our own Debbie Dingell, Debbie Stabenow, and Gary Peters, who have already come forward in support of that position. If we’re ever to put this dark chapter of American history behind us, there needs to be a reckoning, and that cannot happen if Donald Trump is allowed to continue in office, and avoid responsibility for his actions. No, we need to send a strong message that ours is a country of laws, and that begins with holding Donald Trump accountable for his role in the January 6 attack at the Capitol. We have to ensure that he’s never able to run for public office again, or benefit in any way from his office, and the best way to do that is through impeachment. Not only would it keep him from running in 2024, but it would allow us to know, on the record, where each of our elected officials stand on the Donald Trump’s plot to overturn the results of the 2020 election.

Speaking of getting people on the record as to where they stand, I just saw that Lindsay Graham has interceded on Trump’s behalf, asking Joe Biden not to push for a second impeachment. This is the same Lindsay Graham, by the way, who voted to impeach Bill Clinton for lying about having a consensual affair while president. Apparently, in his mind, oral sex is worse that inciting a riot that left five American citizens dead.

If you don’t think it was serious… just a few whack jobs adorned in animal horns and homemade fur capes posing for selfies, I’d encourage you to watch these two videos. The first shows the violent mob pushing their way into the Capitol from the perspective of the officers attempting to hold them back, and the second shows these same individuals chanting “Hang Mike Pence” as they finally break through. And, for what it’s worth, it does look as though some in the group of rioters were looking to harm those elected officials who were certifying the election for Biden. As political consultant Arieh Kovler told GQ, “They had a map of the tunnels [in the basement of the Capitol], and they were talking about how they’re going to be able to stop Congress from leaving. They imagined that this was the day there were going to be mass executions of Congressmen.” While we don’t yet know the extent of what was planned, we do know that pipe bombs, Molotov cocktails and several weapons were found in the possession of those in DC for the purposes of stopping the election certification. We also know that several people who broke into the Capitol, including a retired Air Force combat veteran, were carrying zip-tie handcuffs and tasers, seemingly indicating the possibility that they had intended to take hostages.

This was nothing less than a coordinated attempt to stop the certification of Biden’s win. And here’s the President of the United States of America, right before the attack, winding them up for battle, and encouraging them to go to the Capitol.

[According to Republican Senator Ben Sasse, senior White House officials told him that the President was “excited” and “delighted” as his supporters tried to storm the Capitol after he sent them off. And there’s video which seems to confirm the fact that Trump and members of his family were watching the attack, hopeful that the mob would stop the certification.]

I don’t have too much time right now, but I just wanted to encourage everyone who might be here on this site today to contact your elected officials, and let hem know that we demand people be held to account for what happened. Five American citizens, including a police officer, are dead today because the President of the United States, unable to accept defeat, called his supporters to Washing to stop the certification of a free and fair election. This is sedition, and a price must be paid. Trump must be removed from office. And all of those, like Ted Cruz, Mo Brooks, and Josh Hawley, who, in hopes of advancing their own political careers, played along, lying to American people about the election having been “stolen” from Donald Trump, and encouraged people to fight back, need to be driven from public office. As presidential historian Michael Beschloss reminded us today, the United States Constitution is clear on the matter. “No Person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress” who “shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against” the Constitution, “or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof”, it says.

And we’re never going to be able to get beyond this as a society if we don’t face it right now, and deal with it decisively. If we don’t, you can be sure that more people will die… Speaking of which, I’d like to share one last piece of video. This comes from the family member of a Trump support who died during the attack on the Capitol.

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  1. John Brown
    Posted January 9, 2021 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    The cops that stood idly by, letting rioter pass while their own colleagues we’re meanwhile being killed, are part of a right wing gang. The FOP needs to be taken down as the anti-American criminal enterprise it’s become. They’ve gotten away masquerading as a labor Union for far too long.

    To do that we first we have to get the fascist out of the Congress and upper tiers of DOJ. But none of this will be possible in a country held hostage by domestic terrorist. The real patriots with deep state training have been holding off hoping for peaceful resolution knowing that the Fash will exploit any violent conflict regardless of the reality of the circumstances. But there will be a tipping point when it will be important to know who’s on your side, who isn’t, and how to neutralize those who are against the Constitution.

  2. Bob
    Posted January 9, 2021 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    Michael Moore posted that there are more events planned. There is evidently a call to storm state capitals on the 17th.

  3. Jean Henry
    Posted January 9, 2021 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

    That’s correct Bob. I’ve heard the 19th as well. The planning you mention is why twitter banned him. Friends in PA with Trumper relatives have been warned to be prepared to stay home for 2 weeks after inauguration

  4. Posted January 9, 2021 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    Pelosi and the Democratic controlled Congress (as soon as the GA election is certified) need to begin censuring the political opportunist who are supporting this attempted coup. We have had insurrections before. We have an Amendment to the Constitutions (the 14th. sec. 3) that allows Congress to strip insurrectionist of certain political rights. This should be done immediately. It can be done by majority vote, and it clearly and unequivocally puts people on notice that outright insurrection by members of the political class will not be tolerated.

    We have a two party system based on numerous compromises. One of the central ones is that there will be a peaceful transfer of power between administrations. When the political opposition breaks that compromise and declares there will be violent opposition to the transfer of power, and when those in power use there power it to further that opposition, it is a dissolution. If you have the ability the violent opposition must be crushed and driven from a public political life.

    The political class knew very well what Trump and his political allies were doing. 10 ex-Defense Sec. called him out last Sunday. I heard Amy Klobochar talking about a bi-partisan Congressional “stop the coup caucus” that had been formed during the days leading up to the electoral certification.

    If these folks are not driven from the public political sphere now, they will be back and the next time they will have learned from their mistakes.

  5. Posted January 9, 2021 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

    I’ve been neglecting my Putin puppet duties. This is an interview of Dr. Cornel West by Chris Hedges (on RT) discussing the recent coup attempt and its socio/political context. By the way, both of these guys are much smarter than the dolt.


  6. ElsieGal
    Posted January 9, 2021 at 10:16 pm | Permalink

    I appreciate the fact that Elissa Slotkin took the time and effort to ask that Brian Sicknick, the capitol police officer who died as a result of the conflict, get special honors and burial at Arlington. I do not know if he welcomed the rioters—I dearly hope not!—but I sincerely appreciate the fact that she is paying attention to not only the big issues (impeachment, prosecutions), but also recognizing the personal costs of public service. Amidst so much harrumphing and grandstanding and faux outrage, I take comfort in such gestures of decency from our elected officials.

    Thanks for keeping the posts coming, Mark, and for encouraging us to pay attention and think.

  7. Posted January 9, 2021 at 10:45 pm | Permalink

    Biden is smart enough to know that the people need real financial support and that Congress needs to be showing that under the Democrats the “common” person will benefit. So Biden supports an additional $2ooo dollar stimulus–but Manchin a “Democrat” says no way. I’m a dolt, but it is not that hard to figure our what needs to be done in the short term–and screwing folks out of the money ain’t smart.

    In a Friday interview with The Washington Post, Joe Manchin of West Virginia said “absolutely not” to $2,000 direct payments,

  8. Anonymous
    Posted January 9, 2021 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

    Manchin said it was not top priority and should be targeted, not the same as never. He represents West Virginia. Do you see a better senatorial candidate that could be electable there?

  9. Posted January 9, 2021 at 11:36 pm | Permalink

    That is not the point. He should get behind the President-elect. We have just had an attempted coup, and one of the leading Senators that our new President will need to rely upon has just indicated where he stands. This is not political theater. This is what kind of future do we want. Some body needs to stick a rag in Manchin’s mouth right now. I–am more pro-Biden policy than a Leading Democratic Senator? Please JH, iRobert, or Lynne explain how that can be.

    Oh that right, the right wing of the Democratic Party is just fine with undermining our newly elected President. Remember hit left, move right.

  10. Jean Henry
    Posted January 10, 2021 at 1:37 am | Permalink

    Wobblie— I have read up a bunch on the 14th sec 3 now. The main barrier seems to be that it has never been invoked and may not have been intended for use with a president. It would surely receive Supreme Court challenge and may not hold up.

    The 25th and impeachment (which can also render the convicted ineligible to hold office again) are seen as more achievable, though none are likely.

    I don’t see any motivation for Pelosi et al to take the harder route. Obviously it’s in their interest to prevent Trump from running again.

    I’m not sure where the 1/2 congress to pass presidential censure came from. Where did I miss that?

  11. Anonymous
    Posted January 10, 2021 at 7:28 am | Permalink


    Left and Right are different outlooks and different cultures. Accordingly, Lefties have a different failure mode than we do. The failure mode of right-wing is kook. The failure mode of left-wing is puritan. (Puritans are typically more effective than kooks; hence the tendency for members of Lefty subcultures be pretty successful at trying to top each other in ideology, and punishing people who don’t share it.)

    Be careful Wobblie.

  12. Posted January 10, 2021 at 8:52 am | Permalink

    JH says, Sec. 3 of the 14th Amendment “never been invoked “. Please JH do some remedial studies on the origin of Jim Crow laws. The insurrectionist who started the civil war in 1861 were deprived of their rights utlizing the 14th Amendment. It was the stolen election of 1876 that resulted in the compromise (there is that word you love) that resulted in the Congress lifting the ban on traitors running for Federal office, and the subsequent introduction of Jim Crow laws throughout the South. t

    Keep looking for excuses for the failures of Democratic leadership to competently deal with the threat poised by the insurrection–which is ongoing by the way. The failed coup has not ended the Proud Boy insurrection.

  13. Posted January 10, 2021 at 9:13 am | Permalink

    JH please read the 25th Amendment. There is nothing in the text that precludes Trump from running for office again. He can fight removal under the 25th, simply by sending a letter disputing that he is incapacitated. Talk about utilizing a law for an unintended purpose. The 25th is specifically about establishing an “acting” President for when the President is disabled.

    Utilizing the 25th. is a pipe dream. Pence and Trump’s appointees are going to remove Trump–talk about HW and fantasies.

  14. Posted January 10, 2021 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    I saw a poll today that said not even half of Americans want Trump to be removed from office right now. I don’t know how accurate the poll is nor can I find the dang link to it at the moment but I think it is still worth entertaining the idea that this insurrection has more support than we might like.

  15. Wobblie
    Posted January 10, 2021 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    Lynne the insurrection has a lot of support. If the leaders in the WH and Congress are not sanctioned under the 14th Amendment, and the active militants who seized the Capital are not arrested and charged with treason—then the Republic is dead.

    Some body please show me a single example where leniency for fascist has worked out well.

  16. Demetrius
    Posted January 10, 2021 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    Unfortunately, many are treating both the recent plot against Governor Whitmer, and the attempted insurrection in Washington D.C., as mere aberrations, believing “it can’t (really) happen here,” and that our underlying democracy and civic institutions are strong enough to withstand these kind of challenges.

    I don’t pretend to know if they are, or will – but I also don’t believe these and other events are as uncoordinated and amateur-driven as they seem.

    Even if Biden becomes president on January 20, and even if he has Democratic (and “democratic”) majorities in both houses, I think we need to prepare for more and ongoing attacks on institutions and symbols of American democracy, not just in Washington D.C., but in state capitals, and other places. Sad to say, I think we may be seeing the makings of a permanent insurgency.

    Politicians and leaders of any stripe who are doing anything less than condemning and trying to root out these domestic terrorists should be identified and held accountable for aiding and abetting sedition.

  17. Posted January 10, 2021 at 10:48 am | Permalink

    video of Trumps “very fine” people beating officer Brian Sicknick to death. Maybe FF can review all the video and explain how the mob was simply acting in self-defense.

  18. Posted January 10, 2021 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    I shouldn’t have watched that. I hope to god that all of those people are prosecuted for murder.

  19. Posted January 10, 2021 at 11:08 am | Permalink

    Just like the last 4 years liberals focus entirely on Trump, ignoring the Republican Party which is his enabler. Lynne, the latest Marist poll found that a majority of Republicans support the insurrection and blame Biden for the violence.
    I suppose Pelosi and Schumer will work out a compromise with these Republicans that suitably scape goats Trump while Ted Cruz gets to run for President on the Insurrectionist ticket in 2024, same goes with that opportunist Senator from Arkansas. I am sure they are very fine people and Nancy and Chuck will be able to get a deal done with them.

    They didn’t do polling in 1860, but I am sure that most Democrats blamed that radical Lincoln’s election for the subsequent secessionist crises. If he had been a Democrat they could have worked out a compromise.

  20. Posted January 10, 2021 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    Being fixated on Trump ignores the wide spread complicity in the coup. If Pence had done his part, or if ANTIFA or BKM had mobilized counter protest to the Stop the Steal rally , Wednesday would have turned out much differently. Muriel Bowser might be the true hero of the day. Her admonishments to the people of DC to stay home and not confront the Proud Boys (the Proud Boys and others had been attempting to provoke street fights in the week leading up to the 6th.) stripped the insurrectionist of the pre-text they were counting on.
    The complicity of many in “law enforcement” and also in the military is obvious to anyone who cares to actually look. In addition there were coordinated actions in several state capitals. These are people who took an oath (I have as well) to defend the US from all enemies foreign and domestic. Many in Congress both before and after the storming gave “aid and comfort” to those enemies. Impeachment does nothing to stop the Trump cancer from spreading in the Government. The 14th. Amendment would strip these people of any legitimacy, if they want to pursue careers as outlaws–let em. We will hire the JB’s of the US to track them down.
    Here is an article in Forbes about how the Pentagon obstructed Maryland from intervening in a timely way.


  21. Posted January 10, 2021 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

    Ted Cruz needs to resign to spend more time with his ugly family.


  22. Ypsiwanderer
    Posted January 10, 2021 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

    Ted Cruz has moral defects that make it impossible for him to do anything right.

  23. Jean Henry
    Posted January 10, 2021 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

    Wobblie I meant it was never invoked for a president obviously.

    You are so focused on finding fault and making argument that it’s impossible to have a conversation with you about an interesting option that none of us (even you) know enough about. You are so puffed up that it’s impossible to engage you meaningfully.

  24. Posted January 10, 2021 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    The point is, wobblie, that Pelosi and Schumer may not have the support of the electorate to get enough Senators to convict in the Senate. Ditto removing any Senators. I want them to be harsh too but I can see why they might not be able to be! If Cruz runs for president it will be because he has the support to run for president.

    I am already pissed off that no one has been charged with treason or sedition but I am grateful that some people are facing some consequences at least. Some of them do need to charged with murder (I am not going to watch that video but I can imagine what it shows) and others need to be charged with attempting to assasinate the vice president! I am more pissed off about that than I thought I would be since I think Pense is a scumbag who hurts people with his policies but god damn, It is NOT OK to murder the VP of the USA!

  25. ElsieGal
    Posted January 10, 2021 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    Fascinating analysis by Dr. Marcy Wheeler about impeachment process and schedule AND criminal prosecutions. She poses some great suggestions and observations. One process without the other won’t be sufficient.


  26. Posted January 10, 2021 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

    I am not opposed to impeachment, but I doubt there are enough Republicans to convict–maybe by summer. JH, if you were not so arrogant and knee jerk in your responses we could have a conversation. But like so many, personalities are more important than policies. Feeling good is more important than doing the hard work of changing the future.
    As I have been saying since I started regularly posting here, if we don’t constantly demand better of our politicians, we will continue to be treated like subjects and not citizens.

  27. Posted January 10, 2021 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    Impeachment does nothing to address people like this

    “Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-CO), a gun-toting supporter of the QAnon movement, is facing backlash after she was accused of live-tweeting House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s (D-CA) location during the attack on Capitol Hill last week.

    Boebert shared the tweet soon after President Donald Trump’s supporters stormed the Capitol with deadly results.”

  28. Posted January 10, 2021 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

    I wonder if that stupid dick FF is watching 60 Minutes right now. They’re explaining every detail regarding the Fulton County video.

  29. Posted January 10, 2021 at 8:49 pm | Permalink

    I wonder why the media is silent about those who bank rolled the Stop the Steal rally. For example Ginni Thomas, wife of Judge Clarence Thomas, rented 70 busses to bring in the insurrectionist.

  30. Posted January 10, 2021 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    These are the political traitors.


  31. Posted January 10, 2021 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

    Speaker Pelosi’s letter to Democratic House members on tomorrows agenda


  32. Posted January 10, 2021 at 9:52 pm | Permalink

    Trump was more upset that Capital mob looked ‘low class’ than about violent attacks, reports say Advisors say the President was ‘turned off’ by the look of his supporters as they attacked the US Capital.

  33. Jean Henry
    Posted January 10, 2021 at 10:01 pm | Permalink

    Michigan Urgent ActionAlert for ***TONIGHT***:
    Please send this brief note to our MI State Capitol Commissioners asking them to ban all weapons in the building and grounds.
    They are meeting tomorrow and the letter needs to be in tonight. More details below.
    Thank you!

    Send to mscc@legislature.mi.gov

    Dear Capitol Commissioners, I am writing to urge you to support a ban of all weapons in the State Capitol Building and Grounds, install metal detectors at all public entrances and order an independent, 3rd party review of security policies & practices. Please, act now, before we have a tragedy on our hands.

  34. Jean Henry
    Posted January 10, 2021 at 11:20 pm | Permalink

    I just had a conversation with a friend who know’s Jim Watkins’ (Q) sister and mother. She’s known them for years but just found out the connection. They are liberal progressives. My mind is kind of blown to think that someone is the relative of this murderous cult’s leader. And they have no capacity to change anything anymore than any of us.

    It’s amazing how hard it is to overcome belief. And how relatively easy it is to establish it. Is there a greater danger than the righteousness of belief? is there any greater danger than certainty? Is there anything more inherently false than certainty?

    Meanwhile Q believers in my hometown have a new conspiracy theory that the FAA is shutting down the emergency alert system because that is now ‘the only way Trump can communicate with us.” They are telling people to prepare to receive their orders from Trump via the emergency alert system. Like the guy doesn’t have a website. and 1000’s of media waiting to hear anything he has to say. Yikes.

  35. Posted January 10, 2021 at 11:41 pm | Permalink

    IKR. The dude has a press room in the white house. He can communicate with everyone any time he likes.

  36. Posted January 11, 2021 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    He’s a moron freak who can’t even be trusted to speak live publicly. His prerecorded poorly-read statements, written by someone with the capacity to pretend to make basic sense, is the only option that doesn’t dig him into a deeper hole. Unimaginably pathetic.

    Call, email and demand that every Senator and congressperson who instigated this insanity immediately provide all evidence they claim exists regarding election fraud, or resign.

  37. Posted January 11, 2021 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    You can also call the White House and demand the president speak live regarding where he stands on the crisis he and his stupid supporters have created.

  38. Jean Henry
    Posted January 11, 2021 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    Hey Wobblie– This is for you. Smooch. PS I just saw Newt Gingrich suggest censure. The GOP would be thrilled if Trump couldn’t;t run again. Even the guy who founded the Tea Party.


  39. Jean Henry
    Posted January 11, 2021 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    Ah Wobblie– but it seems there is disagreement between your take and the Wapo take. They are saying Censure is symbolic, like for members of congress, and doesn’t lead to forfeiture of the ability to run for office, like I said earlier. (when you attacked me.) I guess they can’t read either. Or they a referring to a different Presidential censure process than that outlined in the 14th amendment. Basically a president can be censured like a member of congress or under the 14th sec 3. (Wasn’t Clinton censured?) Pretty confusing stuff for everyone but you it seems.

    Lastly, there are lots of federal prosecutors saying nothing in the President’s speech and actions amounts to proof of incitement. Which seems crazy when one looks at the breadth and scope of what he said over the last 4 years. Guiliani, who used the term ‘combat’ on Wed morning ( v Trump’s “fight” ), is more likely to be charged. It seems like a weak distinction but there you go.

  40. Posted January 11, 2021 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

    As angry as I am, I think we need to account for figurative language even if it means sedition charges will not stick.

  41. Jean Henry
    Posted January 11, 2021 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

    Lynne– I guess allowing figurative language would be a slippery slope that could then be used in corrupt ways by a prosecutor against a less powerful person. It’s interesting how hard it is to prosecute charges for obvious harm against a powerful person v. how easy it is to over prosecute a marginalized person for the same kind of offense, even when they have no real influence.

  42. Jean Henry
    Posted January 11, 2021 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

    Chris Christie: [If Trump’s actions aren’t impeachable,] “then I don’t really know what is”

  43. Posted January 11, 2021 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

    JH, and I thought you said you read Sec. 3 of the 14th. Amendment. Since the coup attempt I have been talking exclusively about censure as it relates to the 14th. Amendment. I guess your comprehension skills need some brushing up. The censure resolution would start with Trumps name, include the 146 traitors in Congress, any bureaucrat and military officer who is found to be complicit, as well as the financiers of the coup (if they ever took an oath to defend the constitution)–Thomas for one. The cancer has metastasized and only radical surgery is going to save the patent. Of course the rest of the traitors want you to just focus on Trump.

    No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, OR HOLD ANY OFFICE, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, OR AS AN OFFICER OF THE UNITED STATES, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, SHALL HAVE ENGAGED IN INSURRECTION OR REBELLION against the same, or GIVEN AID OR COMFORT TO THE ENEMIES THEREOF. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

    As I have been saying, as soon as Congress has a majority, Congress needs to declare the actions on Jan. 6 constitutes an insurrection and the following are censured under Sec. 3 of the 14th Amendment. Please read some US History.

    Congress authorized him (Linclon) to declare a state of insurrection by the Act of July 13, 1861. By the Act of August 6, 1861, Congress retroactively ratified all Lincoln’s military action.

  44. Posted January 11, 2021 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

    JH, the language is not confusing.
    President is an Office of the United States
    Trump is an Officer of the United States
    Trump the Congressmen, they all took an oath.

    The language is confusing only to those who are looking for excuses. Trump was enabled by all these and more–they need to be driven from the public space.
    I am certain that Trumps actions and speech as well as the actions of the Congressfolk gave Aid or Comfort to the insurgents. Incitement is not necessary and would in fact be criminal. What is necessary is the courage to defend the Republic. The tools are there, is the will?

  45. Jean Henry
    Posted January 11, 2021 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

    Wobblie– The language is confusing because several things qualify as presidential censure. The language is confusing because there is a lack of precedent for some aspects of the current scenario and constitutional legal scholars are hashing it out.

    NPR had a constitutional law scholar on who said the Senate needs to ‘convict’ on the charge with 2/3 of the vote before they could implement the 14th with half the vote. Which is what I stated the first go around. You have succeeded in confusing matters, but they cant invoke the 14th section 3 unless Trump is convicted of the crime in the congress.

    So I guess I was right when I first responded to your suggestion about this. And you were certain. See the difference?

  46. Posted January 11, 2021 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    Finally a Democrat with a spine.
    Rep. Cori Bush

    Tomorrow, I’m introducing my resolution to expel the members of Congress who tried to overturn the election and incited a white supremacist coup attempt that has left people dead. They have violated the 14th Amendment.

    We can’t have unity without accountability.
    3:59 PM · Jan 10, 2021

  47. Posted January 11, 2021 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

    She is following the right strategy wrong tactic. Expulsion like impeachment requires 2-3 rds vote. Censure only requires a majority. Censure does not expel those currently serving in tenured offices ie. Congress folks etc. It does deprive those censured from holding office in the future. During the Great Rebellion, Civil War, War between the States, many Senators remained in office until formally expelled well into the war. Most of the Confederate (that word has a very interesting history) Representatives simply left office. None were allowed to hold Federal office until the Great Compromise of 1976,
    Individuals censured for the Jan. 6 coup could petition Congress to lift the censure and by 2/3rds vote, their right to participate as Officers within the Republic could be reestablished by 2*3 rds vote.

    That is how you play hard ball.

  48. Posted January 11, 2021 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

    Let the “victims” litigate to the Supreme Court. In the mean time the world changes for the good.

  49. Posted January 11, 2021 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

    JH, I am sorry if I am a dogmatic dolt, I just can’t help myself. I had this same problem decades ago. I was General Secretary of my union, we had a member who was engaging in the most obvious provocateur manner. Sending diagrams of pipe bombs to political opponents within the union. One faction seemed to be using this member as a means of attacking others. Because of this faction we lacked the votes to expel the member. We did have the votes and the authority to suspend the member. It took me months to convince my members that .discipline can and should be progressive.
    Those in Congress who gave aid and comfort to the Jan 6th. insurrectionist were properly elected. To deprive the electors of representatives who may have been misled by the President would be wrong. To deprive those so easily misled from ever having positions of responsibility in the future–unless they petition Congress and show —a renewed commitment to the rule of law say–and requires 2/3 rds to be let back into the body politic.
    That might be an appropriate political punishment for their political crime.

  50. Posted January 11, 2021 at 11:50 pm | Permalink

    How about this for a Grand Compromise. Congress under Sec. 5 of the 14th. Amendment enacts laws to respond to the Jan. 6 insurrection. Imposing sanctions under Sec. 3. Among those laws is censure of all those who supported and gave aid and comfort to the insurgents. This does not deprive anyone of current positions. All these laws could be passed by majority vote and signed by Biden. They would not in any way disturb the norms requiring 2/3eds to expel Congressfolk.
    Biden could then demonstrate his benevolence and intention of healing the country by pardoning all those of crimes associated with the insurrection with the exception of key ring leaders and active murderers and looters.


  51. Jean Henry
    Posted January 12, 2021 at 12:00 am | Permalink

    I’m glad you have it all figured out. It’s too and more people don’t listen to you, Wobblie.

  52. Wobblie
    Posted January 12, 2021 at 7:33 am | Permalink

    Yea. Its wasn’t hard. Wonder why our great Democrats can only come up with loser strategies. Just like last year—where are the Republican votes for impeachment.
    I thought liberals were all about the possible—show you what is possible and all you have is ridicule.
    It is not about the doable. It is all about coddling the racist. Create a show and do nothing—what a waste.

  53. Posted January 12, 2021 at 8:34 am | Permalink

    Yeah wobblie, why don’t the Dems do the impossible? LOL

    People are out there working hard but when people vote third-party or don’t vote in midterms they put Democrats in a position of weakness. It is hilarious how you blame others for not accomplishing enough when the reason they aren’t in a p0sition to do it is YOU!!!

  54. Posted January 12, 2021 at 8:47 am | Permalink

    That is right Lynne. Me and Jill Stein and Jimmy Dore are the most powerful folks in the country.
    I think that the reality is that Pelosi and Company are simply scared. Joe Manchin was one of those Democrats we are supposed to support right?


    The new Congressman from West Michigan (a scion of a local plutocrat made good). Peter Meijer says that Republicans are voting for Trump because they are afraid for their lives. Meanwhile the most important thing to do is attack leftist 3rd party folks.

    It is like a reflex, kinda like an abusive spouse. Things arn’t going well, think I’ll blame the wife. So typical of abusers.
    Hit left, move right. We are Democrats, it is what we do.

  55. Posted January 12, 2021 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    Here is a bit of good news to brighten once day. If anyone hears where they bury this scum, let me know. I want to add it to my piss on their graves tour.


  56. Posted January 12, 2021 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    Nancy Pelosi is a brilliant strategist and she knows what’s up. I trust her judgement a million times more than anyone who would vote for Jill Stein. She had done so much good for our country. We need more like her! Just sayin’

  57. Posted January 12, 2021 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    I also think that all of those people who alleged that Clinton got the nomination because of “rigging” have some responsibility here too. We have just seen how damaging lies like that can be. I hope Bernie Sanders apologizes to the nation.

    Hillary Clinton warned us. She was right (as usual) and fuck anyone who didn’t vote for her in 2016. This is on YOU as much as anyone else

  58. Posted January 12, 2021 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

    Lynne, I know you are a low information voter. The fact that Clinton took over the finances of the DNC long before she was the nominee is an uncontested fact. The reality that by doing that she starved Democratic down ticket races of money is also an uncontested fact. By the way despite having been given every advantage, she was unable to win in enough states to become President. I am glad you have Nancy to hold onto–security blankets are important, but will hardly help us get out of the morass we are currently mired in.

    Yeah I do like the way she got us that 2nd. 2000 dollar stimulus. Great political leadership.

    Why can’t Nancy do her magic with Joe Manchin?

  59. Posted January 12, 2021 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

    We’re not out of the woods yet, you two. Maybe you can get over your 2016 sour grapes and dwell on the danger we’re all in for the next two weeks while a lunatic is still in the Oval Office. Whiney babies.

  60. Posted January 12, 2021 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    Trump still has massive power and there’s no telling what a person that crazy and stupid might do.

  61. John Brown
    Posted January 12, 2021 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    There’s a reasonable AR308 on Armslist Ann Arbor today if someone of large stature or experienced with firearms is in the market. Even if you cant find ammo for it you can keep a trumpist from possessing it, which is a sort of gun control. (JB has extra ammo for it if you pass a grueling background check)


  62. Jean Henry
    Posted January 12, 2021 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    Tim Walberg is telling constituents he’s a ‘no’ on impeachment. Those who are concerned might want to contact him soon and/or friends who are his constituents.

  63. Jean Henry
    Posted January 12, 2021 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

    Wobblie— it is an uncontested fact that HRC took over the DNC finances because they were failing miserably and then raised millions of dollars which she funneled back into down ticket races after the primaries determined the Dem nominees. And that pissed off progressives because their candidates got primaried. Why? Not lack of DNC funds— which they wouldn’t have had more of regardless. Bernie not lending any of them any help in those primaries didn’t help. He didn’t help out until 2018 when he showed how effective a support he can be in already liberal districts (not so much in others).

  64. Posted January 12, 2021 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

    Krtstal Ball is promoting 14th. Amendment solutions.
    iRobert, because Congress did not object to Trump’s executive order gutting the civil service, (another one of those brilliant moves by Pelosi I guess) it goes into effect on Jan. 19. He has the capacity to wreck total havoc with the Federal Government. He probably lacks sufficient control of the Government at this point to purge all of his enemies, but his appointees will continue to run Agencies and Departments until Biden’s appointees are approved.
    Biden needs all of our support. Why hasn’t anybody stuck a rag into Joe Manshins’ mouth? What is it about Joe’s? (Joe Liberman pretty much torpedoed Obama trying to do anything for the common folk if memory services me right).

    The Republicans have repeatedly demonstrated over the last decade that they are totally unprincipled power hungry opportunist. If you don’t go into “negotiations” with these folks with a really big stick, like–we are coming after all 140+ Congress folks who supported the coup–convince us that Trump lied to you, that you are contrite and that you will now play be the rules–then we’ll let you back in–your choice.

    If you go in with getting rid of Trump is what you want, you have already lost. We want all your heads, convince us to be merciful, then you can have real negotiations and a new consensus for Government. Biden deserves the Democrats in Congress to take the lead and be calling for Radical solutions. Then he can be the great Healer. It is not a hard strategy to get your head around.

    Trump having his rally at the Alamo today could be interesting

  65. John Brown
    Posted January 12, 2021 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

    Even if Walberg wasn’t a twisted holy roller, he’s definitely one of those GOPers held hostage by aggressive domestic terrorists, err…. constituents. But JB has a training facility in his district and so freely communicates his views to the pastor.

  66. John Brown
    Posted January 12, 2021 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    Army psy-ops officer resigns to join agent orange army. I’d put the chances of Biden getting sworn in at 50:50. And if he does make it he will be under constant threat of insider attack during his term.


  67. Posted January 12, 2021 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    Today is a pretty good day. Adelson dies and now the word is Rick (the killer) Snyder is going to be charged for his conduct in the Flint water murders. Will be interesting to see what charges he faces.

  68. Wobblie
    Posted January 12, 2021 at 11:06 pm | Permalink

    Another reason to go after Trumps Congressional accomplices utilizing the 14th Amendment.
    Mikie Sherril Congresswoman and veteran from New Jersey accuses some of the Republicans of taking insurrectionist on a “reconnaissance” of the Capital on Jan 5.


  69. Wobblie
    Posted January 12, 2021 at 11:23 pm | Permalink

    Reading reports tonight. 1) Several Congressmen helped plan the Jan 6 “rally”. Speaker Pelosi thinks the threat from her colleagues is serious enough to install metal detectors to the entrances of the House Chambers. First time that has happened Outraging some of the Republicans.
    The Trump Republicans have convinced themselves that Biden is a socialist leading a socialist party that must be stopped.
    If they are not crushed, it will be like the Trumpvirus fucking with us for years into the future. The Democrats have a chance to drive the white nationalist back underground and destroy there political movement. Dont let them let this moment pass.

  70. Posted January 13, 2021 at 10:10 am | Permalink

    Don’t know if anyone else is watching the impeachment debate. The Republicans are scared. They KNOW they are culpable. Holding members of Congress as well as the President accountable has come up several times. The 14th Amendment as well.

  71. Jean Henry
    Posted January 13, 2021 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    John Brown— I read the linked article, and, even by your standards, your summary bears no relation to the content.

  72. Posted January 13, 2021 at 11:15 am | Permalink

    The man with the Molotov cocktails had personal contact information that at least he believed was for Ted Cruz. Seems like some thing worth following up

    From the DOJ affidavit arguing that defendant is flight risk

    Another set of handwritten
    messages were found on the back of a magazine, and contained purported contact information for
    “Conservative Talk Show Host Mark Levin,” “Shaun [sic] Hannity,” and “Senator Ted Cruz.”
    (Photos attached as Exhibit E.)


  73. Bob
    Posted January 13, 2021 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

    McConnell is sticking a knife in it.

  74. John Brown
    Posted January 13, 2021 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

    JH, don’t wobbly on me. Just pointing out a supposedly sophisticated Army lady is part of agent orange army. And, my opinions about what I expected to happen given the totality of info up to that moment in time. Fortunately my obligation to Maynardists for clarity is nil. Makes sense to me. Isn’t that the same mode y’all work under?

  75. Jean Henry
    Posted January 14, 2021 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

    “Army psy-ops officer resigns to join agent orange army.”

    Actual article says she resigned her position after an unrelated incident. It also says she was at protest but not in the capitol building as far as we know. She’s being investigated because she is still active duty and is set to leave in a couple months. That’s it.

    You have no obligation to clarity, JB. It’s clear you don’t have any commitment to that. I would think, however, that anyone concerned about the current scenario would be wary of making such giant and unsubstantiated leaps of conclusion. She didn’t;t ‘join’ anything but a protest as far as we know. She didn’t quit to do this. Every bit of that sentence is a lie as far as we know, as far as the article states.

    Why the hell would hyperbole be necessary or even politically useful when we are already dealing with this shit show? Reality is enough.

    There were plenty of people with actual military training in the capitol. No they didn’t;t have Psy-Ops training. That bit must have been too titillating to let go for you or the click bait media.

  76. Jean Henry
    Posted January 14, 2021 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

    “The middle ground is not halfway between Nazis and antiracists. The reasonable position is not a compromise between rapists and feminists, slaveowners and abolitionists, Natives and General Crook. The truth is not midway between the liar and the truthteller. That has to be a factor in all those calls for reaching out and unity. The murderer and his intended victim don’t have to agree on what’s right. The people who were harmed don’t have to reach out to those who did the harming. The people who told the truth don’t need to make liars feel better about themselves or what they said. Those who were targeted by this war don’t have to do all the peacemaking. If reaching out and finding unity is good, the haters and liars can go find some olive branches and apologies and do the work to leave their will to destroy the rest of us behind. Then it begins. The party of hate never had a mandate; they lost the popular vote last time and this time; they may think of themselves as the real American and the gatekeepers but we don’t have to, and we don’t have to enter their gates or play by their rules. We don’t have to hate them either, but we don’t have to protect them from the consequences of their choices or sell out our principles for their comfort. When you stand on the ground of truth and justice, let others find their way to you. If you stand firm, many will in the end. Not everyone will; that does not change what truth and justice are.”
    Rebecca Solnit

  77. Anonymous
    Posted January 14, 2021 at 3:26 pm | Permalink


    This is my most favorite inadvertent truth picture.

  78. Posted January 14, 2021 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

    thankyou JH for repudiating the notion of compromise for compromise sake. We as a politic have an assumed agreement on following the rules. I was once some one who rejected that basic precept. I joined hundreds of thousands of others who also rejected the rules. Many of us were killed, many thrown in prison, that is the consequences of not following rules–whether codified or not. The Great Healer President Jimmy Carter through executive Proclamation 4483, also known as the Granting Pardon for Violations of the Selective Service Act allowed us back into the body politic. Those of us wanted for other felonies during the resistance were not pardoned but had to serve time.

    The difference between our rule breaking and the member of Congress and others, most of us had never sworn an oath to defend the Constitution, and so our lawlessness was not Treasonous. Many of us would have supported a Revolution, but we did not ever attempt to illegally seize the levers of power—rather just like the BLM protest–we were demanding existing Governments redress our grievences—big difference. There were a few terrorist who were mercilessly hunted downs and thrown into prison.
    The aiders and abettors of the Jan. 6 Coup (including those in Congress) are responsible for any subsequent violence and deserve the same treatment as the Weather Underground and the SLA.

  79. Posted January 15, 2021 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    I just keep imagining how different things would have been had Gore won in 2000 or had Clinton won in 2016.

    And I guess it is too bad that HW isn’t here to hear me say that he was right. I never should have dismissed him when he talked about the possibility of guys like him actually being traitors and trying to actually start a civil war. I guess he warned us. I mean I knew guys like him were awful but I have to admit that I honestly didn’t think that it would happen or that it would have so much support by regular Republicans. Clinton warned us too of course.

    Hillary Clinton has the most ground out of anyone to be saying “I told you so!’ I know she is retired but one thing that makes me feel good about Biden is that I know he has a good relationship with her so she likely will be an unofficial advisor.

  80. Posted January 15, 2021 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    Lynne, Life for the people of Flint would have been so much better if Obama had declared it a Federal disaster area back in 2015 or 16. How many fewer votes did Hilary get in Gennesse county than Obama. I guess the Dems, not doing anything had nothing to do with Clinton’s loss. Stupid me. It was that fucking vote for Nader I did back in 2000 that was the real problem. Thankyou for getting me straight on that.

  81. Posted January 15, 2021 at 11:42 am | Permalink

    Lynne, I piqued my own interest. Obama got 128000 votes in 2012 in Genesse county. Stein got just over 900.
    HRC got 102000 votes in the same county in 2016. Stein got just over 2000. HRC got nearly 22000 fewer votes than Obama, and lost Michigan by 11000. The Democrats doing nothing for Flint had nothing to do with her loss. But god damn Stein and all her voters.

  82. Jean Henry
    Posted January 15, 2021 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    wobblie– You are welcome. Your point about the oath is significant.

    But… please note that in the past our conflicts arose out of two things 1) your unwillingness to compromise with those of us who seek the same objectives but have different strategies, not with conservatives. 2)your unwillingness to acknowledge the legitimacy of systemic racism and sexism as a separate but related issue to economic inequality. It was Lynne and I back in 2016 who said we can not compromise with White Racists who voted for Trump. You insisted they were the wounded white working class and we weren’t empathetic enough to their concerns. You insisted that not caring about white working class economic (aka ‘status’) anxiety was creating division.

    We insisted there was no unity possible on the left without addressing the patriarchy and white supremacy embedded in our culture and systems. We insisted that many WWC Trump voter were SO racist and sexist that they consistently voted against their own self-interest just to avoid admitting any commonality with the struggles of women, LGBTQ and BIPOC. Those who want to join us are welcome. Our policies serve them too. If they don’t, we don’t have to offer them any condolences or any sympathy.

  83. Jean Henry
    Posted January 15, 2021 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    Wobblie–HRC lost Michigan because she didn’t campaign here and because many people were led by Bernie and others on the left to believe that the system was rigged against them (familiar?) and that she was hopelessly corrupt and that they should not in good conscience vote for her, damn the consequences. And a host of other reasons. In a race that came down to 10,000 votes, all these things can be true as significant (and even determinative) factors at once.

  84. Posted January 15, 2021 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

    Yup. They should have known better. The Dems have accomplished MUCH more for everyone including the people of Flint than the Green Party which has done exactly nothing but whine.

    And always it seems that like you, they are whining about the Dems not doing enough even though the reason they can’t do more is they don’t have the power to do the things. It is ironic because part of the reason is that they don’t have the support is progressives who are cool with throwing marginalized people under the bus.

  85. Posted January 15, 2021 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

    JH, thankyou for distorting the comments I made about the 2016 election. You and Lynne are so knee jerk partisans in your response to all criticisms’ of “acceptable female” Democrats–spread nothing but lies about unacceptable female Democrats like Tulsi. You guys live in the same bubble as HW, which is why you miss him so much. In your mind whenever I say “working class” you here “white privilege”. Most of the working class is female and darker skinned than you. But again thankyou for setting me straight. I am such a dolt you know.

    I suspect most of the people of Flint think the system is “rigged” against them. Do you think Biden will help to dissuade them? And if so how?

  86. Jean Henry
    Posted January 15, 2021 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

    “Most of the working class is female and darker skinned than you. ” — yes and voted overwhelmingly for HRC not Trump.

    The level of condescension required to imagine I’m unaware of that reality is remarkable.

  87. Jean Henry
    Posted January 15, 2021 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    As for the people of Flint, there have been many interviews with them recently and they intend to pressure Biden and Whitmer to do more. The judicial system charges against Snyder have not impressed them. Not much impresses them and they are understandably less than optimistic while still applying pressure for change. They also voted Biden in and, despite their experience, trust him to create change more than anyone in any third party because he has the capacity and will to do so, instead of just bellyaching. They know the difference.

  88. Posted January 15, 2021 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

    JH, your unwillingness to compromise with those of us who seek the same objectives but have different strategies are clearly the problem, but then me being a dolt, all I can do is be a parrot.. The lie’s both you and Lynne almost gleefully tell about your political opponents on the left–almost everything you say about Gabbard is off the approved HRC play card. Despite Bernie’s “bending the knee” to Biden you can’t think of anything but shit to say about him.
    Hit left is reflexive and I have no hope that you will make any attempt at self reflection. Anymore than your hero HRC.

    Maybe HRC was scared to campaign in Michigan because the crippled folks from Flint might have asked her what she was going to do different than Obama. Do you think Biden will do anything about Flint?

  89. Posted January 15, 2021 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    I admit I am still angry with Sanders about a lot of things. These days it is the way he lied to his supporters with lies that the primary was rigged. I just encountered a bro online yesterday who was claiming that she only won because of Superdelegate votes! This crazy we are seeing at the Capitol exists on the left too albeit fortunately only in rhetoric! And you often promote it!

    HRC never told any lies about Gabbard! If what I am saying is straight out of the HRC playbook, it is because as usual, she is right. We should have listened to her.

  90. Posted January 15, 2021 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    I admit that I engaged in some hyperbole when I said we are not worth a plug nickel. AG Nessel has actually offered 600 million to the people of Flint for the damages the state inflicted upon them—that works out to about $5800 for each resident. For a home owner, that won’t even pay to replace their ruined home plumbing.
    For the 6 year old who is suffering from lead exposure I wonder how many Chelation therapy treatments it will pay for, (Chelation therapy usually requires intravenous medication several times a week for months at a time. This often includes hundreds of treatments, which cost between $75 and $125 each. )
    I guess Nessel is doing a good job of protecting the State’s money–is that justice for the people of Flint? Any ideas out there?
    Lynne, bubbles are fun to live in “she is being groomed by the Russians” . it looks like we are almost on the verge of a compromise—not.

  91. Jean Henry
    Posted January 15, 2021 at 7:29 pm | Permalink

    Wobblie–I suspect that whether Biden does anything about Flint or not depends on whether any number of his cabinet members and advisors makes it a priority.

    I’ve seen amazing things happen when one person inside knows an issue in detail and cares. We’ll see. Biden will be very very busy I’m sure. There is a great deal to do just to fix the messes Trump made, much less Snyder.

    UM has been terrible on the Flint Water Crisis. Thank you for the reminder to check to see if they have stepped up yet.

  92. Jim Monsoon
    Posted January 15, 2021 at 10:32 pm | Permalink

    I keep checking back here to see where HW and EOS are these days, mentally. But I fear they may be too ashamed to ever return …

  93. Posted January 16, 2021 at 9:20 am | Permalink

    wobblie, that was more a statement about what the Russians were doing than about Gabbard herself. The Russians did seem to be interfering in their usual way (bots and misinformation) in order to encourage Gabbard to run a third party. The bullshit move Gabbard made where she sued Clinton played right into their hands. I don’t think Gabbard was intentionally working with the Russians but she was being played by them. (a REALLY good reason not to vote for her IMHO) Luckily Gabbard came to her senses and didn’t run on a third-party ticket. She also dropped her lawsuit presumably because she knows that truth is a good defense in a defamation suit. All I know is that HRC has been right about most of the things she said. She warned us about Trump. And she warned us about Gabbard.

    Do you think Dana Nessel controls the state budget? She is limited in what she can offer by our legislature. I agree that the people of Flint should get more but the way you are so eager to assume the worst of any politician who is more centrist than you are is not productive. As it happens, I think the people of Flint deserve a lot more so the question is how can we get it. Abusing the AG because she is a woman isn’t going to cut it! I am not sure that even if we had a legislature that was willing to give an appropriate amount, we could afford it as a state. But we do NOT have a legislature or a voting population willing to pay out the kind of money that is needed. And that is NOT Dana Nessel’s fault!

    Almost certainly, we are going to need federal money or at least that may be the most likely way to get it. Unfortunately again, as you know, Biden is going to have a lot on his plate. I have written Debbie Dingell and Elissa Slotkin about this. I will also write to our Senators and the President himself.

    JH, I have high hopes because there is someone in his administration who seems to understand the situation and that is Kamala Harris. We will see though how things shake out. I am sure wobblie will have some nasty things to say about Harris in the process though.

  94. Posted January 16, 2021 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    Jim, it is kind of you to ascribe their absence to shame. I think it is because they enjoyed the feeling of power they got by being associated with Trump. I think they liked coming here and bullying liberals. Now that their guy is about to be out of power (kind of already is), they don’t feel as confident. I think that the reason people like them supported Trump is that they are losing their privilege and status and are angry about it and so they LOVE it when he is cruel. I also wonder if HW is over on some dark web message board plotting to overthrow our government and thus has been or soon will be in prison.


  95. Bob
    Posted January 16, 2021 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    HRC is Lucy Van Pelt pulling the football time and again as America gets Charlie Browned. Her inability to see past her own deep dislike, both undeserved and completely earned, in middle America handed that fool Trump four years. He inflicted wounds we will likely never recover from. The world views us differently. Even countries that didn’t necessarily like the US now see that we are a nation of fools. The arrogant, inept campaign run by Clinton, and the screw job handed to progressives by the corporate takeover of the DNC put Donald in office. It’s not even a debate. Hillary fucked us. And she will never go away. But you still want to take every opportunity to cry about Bernie because he dared to challenge the queen’s coronation. You can blame Russians and phony email scandals all you want. She had no chance of getting elected against anyone but Trump. None. And that was a weak chance. Trump had no chance of getting elected against anyone but Hillary. Grow up, Lynne. The obsession you and Jean have with Bernie is fucking bizarre. Creepy. Focus on supporting a strong female candidate who is worthy of the honor. It sure isn’t that Wall St/Wal-Mart/Monsanto money grubber HRC.

  96. Posted January 16, 2021 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    You are right Bob, there is no debate. It took the RNC, Wikileaks, the FBI, Bernie Bros, Russia, sexism, and an electoral college advantage to defeat her. She was an amazing candidate. Why you think that a guy who couldn’t even win a primary (twice) would have won the national election is beyond me. Maybe you are the one who needs to grow up?

  97. Jean Henry
    Posted January 16, 2021 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

    I’m wondering if Bob still thinks populism as a political strategy bears no risk of abuse and is an unmediated good.

    Does discussing the risks of populist political messaging still make me a capitalist tool, Bob?

  98. Jean Henry
    Posted January 16, 2021 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

    PS I think it’s clear, Bob, that you hate HRC as much or more than I hate Bernie, and I do hate the guy. At least my critique wasn’t borne of a 30 year GOP misinformation campaign. You and the other rabid Bernard did the bidding of the GOP so well!

  99. Posted January 16, 2021 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    I know, they really did, JH.

    I don’t hate Bernie. I think his heart is in the right place but as I said, I have some anger towards him.

    I just saw this on twitter and it cracked me up!


  100. Posted January 16, 2021 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

    I think it is one of those really interesting things about Class politics when people who seemingly are on such opposite sides of issues, join together on other issues. JH I wonder what you think about sharing the same analysis of “populist” with the editors of Breitbart.

    Editors and reporters at the staunchly pro-Trump conservative outlet Breitbart News privately clashed over whether President Donald Trump was to blame for last week’s deadly Capitol riot, according to internal messages reviewed by The Daily Beast.

    “I am just not feeling charitable AT ALL,” international news editor Frances Martel posted to Slack the morning after the rioting that left five people dead, including a police officer. “Destroy Trump.”

    Martel lamented that Trump’s support for the MAGA mob had undone a decade’s worth of conservative politics, leaving the Republican Party “in shambles” and dimming the right-wing movement’s prospects.

    “He set us back like 10 years,” Martel wrote. “We have worked so hard to promote our values, values that made him president when he hawked them, and now he does this, leaving everything in shambles? Nah, destroy him. Let it be a lesson to every other ‘populist.’”

    For myself–being a dolt and all, I think you’re both wrong. You both confuse demigod with “populist”. A “populist” pursues the betterment of the populous. A demigod uses racism and nationalism to enrich a minority. Whose definition better fits Trump?
    Whose class has an interest in promoting false equivalencies and the continuation of the status quo? What is the meaning of conservativism?

  101. Jean Henry
    Posted January 16, 2021 at 11:27 pm | Permalink

    Wobblie— look up the definition of populist campaign strategy . I can’t have a conversation with you about a word you when you make up its meaning and give it a different context.

    Trump used classically populist campaign rhetoric. You are the first person I’ve encountered who counters that .

  102. Posted January 17, 2021 at 1:22 am | Permalink



    a person, especially a politician, who strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups.
    “he ran as a populist on an anticorruption platform”

    relating to or characteristic of a political approach that strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups.
    “party leaders plan to reprise the populist rhetoric that they used in the tax fight”

  103. Posted January 17, 2021 at 1:33 am | Permalink

    wobblie, this was straight up the tactic of both Trump and Sanders.

    Sanders was deliberately appealing to people by convincing them that the primaries were rigged, that elite Democrats didn’t want to listen to them yadda yadda yadda. He has a tendency to gloss over reality when he talks to people too. That was one thing that was particularly frustrating. He kept promising things that just were not going to happen unless there was some kind of massive turnout so that Congress and state governments went much more progressive too.

    Trump just straight up lied to people. He appealed to ordinary people by bullying others for them. He appealed to their values which all seem to ultimately come down to their beliefs in white supremacy and patriarchy. He ate fast food and spoke to them at their level. And of course, he told them that there were elites hurting them and he and he alone could “drain the swamp”. QAnon took this whole savior thing really far too.

  104. Posted January 17, 2021 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    Lynne, that seems like a perfect definition. So what made Trump a “populist”. His appeal to racism. Please explain what in Trump’s appeal is “populist”. The huge tax breaks he gave the 1%? His appointment of conservative Judges? His continues support for our wars?

    wobblie, this was straight up the tactic of both Trump and Sanders.–And what do yu call your constant slandering of your fellow citizens as dupes of a hostile power? IS Spreading the lies and distortions of your political heroes the way to build unity against the right. But you guys probably voted for Rick (killer) Snyder because Virg was an angry mayor.

    JH, break the liberal mode and try engaging in some serious seff-reflection.

  105. Posted January 17, 2021 at 9:36 am | Permalink

    Trump used classically populist campaign rhetoric

    Let’s do some analysis. Trump railed against the media. Attacking the media that supports your political enemies has been standard fair in US politics at least since Lincoln’s election. Nixon of course coupled the attack on the media with identifying it as a reflection of an East Coast élite. Was Nixon a “populist”.

    Numerous Democratic politicians over my life time have played the race card. Wallace is of course the best known. But Byrd, Thruman, and numerous other Senators and Governors have played the race card to get elected. Does that make them “populist”.

    Or how about Jesse Jackson (I got to vote for him for President twice) and his Rainbow coalition. Was he a populist?0

    Or George McGovern with his call for (though we didn’t call it that at the time) UBI. Was he a populist. How about Nader, was he a populist?

    I know I lack the ability to discern the differences, but is the term “populist” about as specific in defining a person’s politics as “progressive”? After all JH, you call yourself a “progressive”, but I sure don’t see how your self-definition jives with the numerous status quo positions you can be relied upon to profess.

    I mean voting for Rick(killer)Snyder was the “progressive” political move in 2010, right?

  106. Posted January 17, 2021 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    What lies do you think I am spreading, wobblie?

    One of my old boyfriend’s moms told me a funny story about Jesse Jackson’s sexist behavior! She was somewhat well placed in the Detroit political scene. They were at some kind of meeting that SHE was in charge of. Like she was the head of the committee or whatever. Anyways, he kept ordering her around to do things like taking notes and fetching coffee for the male committee members. I guess he was a real piece of work! She told him off though! I wish I could relate her speech but I don’t remember it verbatim. I remember that it was hilarious and powerful though!

    wobblie, it is a populist strategy to appeal to racism and sexism. It is also a populist strategy to make false promises or to exaggerate the promises. And too, a politician could in theory be a populist by actually being truthful and realistic with ordinary people and then working really hard to get things done. Sometimes when the populist says that elites have too much power, they really do have too much power.

    I don’t really remember well the campaigns of Jackson or Mcgovern. Nader ran a populist campaign but that is always the GP strategy. They will always claim that the Dems are corrupt and have too much power and please vote Green in order to make our country more liberal! (Even though a vote for the Green Party often actually moves things to the right and Nader is a really good example fo that!)

    Sanders absolutely ran a bad populist campaign. There was a lot of rhetoric about how “They” were rigging the election by favoring Clinton even though “They” turned out to be the party base and especially black women. The way the Sanders people kept claiming that things were rigged was a disgusting display of straight-up populist racism and sexism. His whining about “identity politics” was just more of the same Turns out you can play that populist racism card more in ways more subtle than the GOP usually does.

    Sanders also did that thing where he was making unreasonable promises. I mean even when his actual words hinted at the truth, the way people were hearing them was clearly something different. It is like how Biden is proposing $1400 stimulus payments but is saying $2000. Smart people can figure out that he means $1400 + $600 we already got but people are already losing their shit about how he promised $2000 and now it is only going to be $1400.

    Sanders was promising big things like M4A even though there really is almost no realistic chance that could have happened even if he had won the nomination. Sanders doesn’t always clearly make a distinction between what he hopes can happen with what he knows will actually happen. I get it. Saying “M4A is a great idea but in order to get it we have to work really hard to get enough votes to support it and it probably will take decades” is not as easily heard as “I promise we will have Medicare for all!”

  107. Posted January 17, 2021 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    I mean I am not lying when I say that I agree with HRC that Russia very likely saw Gabbard as an asset. Is that what you mean?

  108. Jean Henry
    Posted January 17, 2021 at 11:50 am | Permalink

    This is just a sample of what Q followers believe right now. They haven’t given up still. I wonder what they will be saying when the transition occurs and Trump moves to Florida to golf. Somehow they will pivot their narrative again. I feel certain of that. Read it and weep:

    ““Passing along more intel…..
    this is updated info that has been confirmed by multiple sources.
    First off, You know who has technically already been arrested. There will public action being taken sometime between today and the inauguration date.
    The two strongest possibilities that will occur on the 20th are as follows:
    1. There will not be a televised inauguration as the public action will be taken before the event occurs.
    2. You will see MSM covering a fake inauguration, which will be produced by some studio magic (they do this all the time and I am not going to go into the technical details) and when you know who pulls up to the White House he will be denied access. This is the less likely probability of the two scenarios.
    After all of this occurs there will be a brief period of about 10 days in the U.S (and in other parts of the world though the amount of days will vary) where communications will be down. There will be a shorter period of time (perhaps a few days) of power outages. All of the television channels will be redirected to one broadcast which will be showing tribunals of people presenting evidence and individuals recording video testimonials. The reason for the black outs and communications being offline is so that the last of arrests can be made and so the remaining underground facilities that have been controlled by deep state can be infiltrated and emptied. You will see (if you haven’t already) a large military presence in major cities and key areas. Some of these include, LA, NYC and Washington.
    This transition will be rather quick and peaceful. We are heading into marshal law, so it is possible that the emergency broadcasting system will inform people to stay inside there homes.
    The intention is to make the turn over and get the country up and running again as fast as possible.
    My personal recommendation (which is what I am doing) is to stock up on water and some food for a few days (again it won’t be for a long period of time).
    There are obviously more possibilities in which can happen, but all of this info that I have personally received (backed up by a few sources of reliable information) has been 100% accurate so far. So, take it or leave it.
    Patience is key. They are not going to risk changing the timeline because people are becoming impatient. Trust the plan and do not listen to anything that is being reported on by mainstream media outlets. It is quite simply all a lie. POTUS has not conceded nor has he been impeached….. and you sure as hell will NOT see you know who sworn in on Wed.
    The swamp has already been drained, we are just watching it unfold for the public.”

  109. Jean Henry
    Posted January 17, 2021 at 11:55 am | Permalink

    Wobblie– the time is over when I spend time here trying to explain things that are well established because they upset the narrative you or others here subscribe too. I tried that with iRobert etc and it was way too time consuming.

    I will simply say that both Trump’s campaign managers and Sanders’ have acknowledged they ran a populist campaign. So take up your argument with them.

  110. Posted January 17, 2021 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    1) according to Lyunne “populism” is a , ” is a populist strategy to appeal to racism and sexism.” Would you include appeals to “patriotism” or “nationalism” as populist? How about appeals to “support law enforcement” would that be “populist”. And I guess since you don’t mention it despite my example in my questions, appeals to class and economic change, as “populist”. Is it only “populist” if it is sexist and racist.

    I think upon reflection that you would expand your definition to include nationalism, xenophobe and other appeals primarily made based on emotionalism rather than policies..
    Kinda like “the Russians are grooming her for a third party run”. That struck a real emotional raw nerve in you. Your emotional response has obstructed your ability to rationally decide. Rather HRC is a hero. Anyone who disparages my hero is the enemy. AS with most liberals personalities are more important than policy. But I think we are pretty close in our estimation of “populism”. I did not think Nader was a populist—he has zero emotional appeal–I always thought he was an asshole when he was creating his Pirgims and other Public Policy monopiles. He was always a policy wonk first hardly a prescription for a firebrand. Jackson was more symbolism than reality–what Southern Baptist Minister is not sexist?

    As you state ” a politician could in theory be a populist by actually being truthful and realistic with ordinary people”

    Thankyou JH for your obvious political superiority. I remember your support for Rick(killer) Snyder. I have no doubt you will revert to your class and continue to hit left and move right.

    who is the arbiter of “sexist and racist” appeals? Please show me any sexist or racist policies that Bernie Sanders has endorsed and campaigned on?

  111. Posted January 17, 2021 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

    My apologies JH I confused your general support for the status quo with some one else’s opinions about the “angry mayor” and Rick (killer) Snyder. My mistake. I really don’t know who you supported for Governor back in 2010. Were you a good Democrat, like me, and vote for the Mayor?

  112. Posted January 17, 2021 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

    Are you ok, wobbie? You sound a little nuts.

  113. Posted January 17, 2021 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

    Honestly, sometimes I wish HRC had run a MORE populist campaign. She was so close to winning that taking that approach could have pushed her over in terms of votes.

  114. John Brown
    Posted January 18, 2021 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    Wait until the ruskie money and kompromat behind agent oranges ascension is fully exposed once his taxes and banking records are revealed during criminal trials. Wobblie will be pulling up a bar stool next to HW to commiserate.

    Weird that there was a russian speaking contingent at the insurrection don’t you think? What is the russian speaking % of Americans, and why where they likely way over represented at a anti-govt riot?

  115. Jean Henry
    Posted January 18, 2021 at 9:13 am | Permalink

    Wobblie– I did not vote for Snyder. I had kids in public schools at the time. His positions on schooling alone disqualified him for me. I have lots of relatives who are what I call ‘business republicans’ like Snyder. I’ve spent most of my life arguing with them (They think it’s sport). They are not confused, like you, into thinking I’m a moderate.

  116. Jean Henry
    Posted January 18, 2021 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    Lastly, I never thought HRC was a hero. Plenty to criticize there but no more than Sanders. The unfounded abuse she took from people did pull my sympathies. But I didn’t love HRC so much as I disliked Sanders and the tone of his campaign, especially after NY. I didn’t decide to support HRC in the primary until a few weeks before we voted, What was startling to me was that I was roundly attacked for questioning whether Sanders plans tied out. It was really intense. No one could say anything critical of the guy. That bore itself out here and in social media and on the streets of A2. That cult of personality made ppl stupid and probably did drive me to HRC. It for sure heightened my critique of the man and his campaign and populism more broadly. That pushed me further away from others. Things were much better after the primary ended and many ppl had to look more closely at HRC than just calling her a warmonger or a (gasp!) moderate.

  117. Posted January 18, 2021 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    JH: “Wobblie– the time is over when I spend time here trying to explain things that are well established because they upset the narrative you or others here subscribe too. I tried that with iRobert etc and it was way too time consuming.”

    For the record, Jean’s making stuff up again. I’m sure that’s a surprise to no one.

  118. Posted January 18, 2021 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    Outside of the Presidential race, Democrats generally did not do well in the 2020 election. The main reason Democrats won the presidential race was because Trump turned so many voters against himself. Otherwise, the foolishness Jean promotes as messaging for the Democratic Party is a loser. People who say “defund the police” are idiots. That sort of stupidity will again be the undoing of the Democratic Party’s modest gains made recently.

    Happy Jean-Knows-More-Than-MLK Day!

  119. Jean Henry
    Posted January 18, 2021 at 9:54 am | Permalink

    “1) If peace means accepting second-class citizenship, I don’t want it.
    2) If peace means keeping my mouth shut in the midst of injustice and evil, I don’t want it.
    3) If peace means being complacently adjusted to a deadening status quo, I don’t want peace.
    4) If peace means a willingness to be exploited economically, dominated politically, humiliated and segregated, I don’t want peace. So in a passive, non-violent manner, we must revolt against this peace.”
    MLK Jr, “When Peace Becomes Obnoxious,” Sermon Delivered on 18 March 1956

  120. Posted January 18, 2021 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    Re: “Defund the police”

    That is a tough one. I mean it very clearly does play a certain way for white people who are used to seeing the police as protectors. Especially those who see the police as protectors of white people against black people. It is a slogan that developed naturally in spaces with a lot of people of color. I know for sure that when white liberal men say shit like “People who say ‘defund the police’ are idiots.” it comes across as yet another white man who thinks he knows better than the grassroots organizers who came up with it.

    So I guess the question is: Should the Democrats coddle white fragility in order to win elections? I kind of think they should go the other way and just let more women and especially black women start running things. Even if they have reasons for using slogans like “defund the police” that white people don’t like.

  121. Posted January 18, 2021 at 11:11 am | Permalink

    So now Jean has discovered MLK was actually much more sophisticated in his ideas and strategy than she has ever been. Good for you, Jean. Now pretend that was always your position.

    Lynne, thank you for illustrating the exact idiocy which cost the Democratic Party any gains in November. Your statements are flatly false. Police do a lot more protecting in urban environments than in suburban or rural environments. Urban environments are disproportionately comprised of racial minorities. Just because a small number of “defund the police” idiots are very vocal, doesn’t mean they come close to representing what that majority in the city feel and think. People of all races who actually live in the cities understand all of this. You are clueless. You’re just another stupid white person assuming they can speak for other people, actual statistics and facts be damned.

  122. Posted January 18, 2021 at 11:15 am | Permalink

    Mark, could you please pay some actual black people to comment here. Lynne and Jean aren’t cutting it.

  123. Posted January 18, 2021 at 11:20 am | Permalink

    When was the last time you needed to call the police, Lynne? How about you, Jean? Ask a random person in Detroit when the last time they felt had to call the police. Don’t ask your stupid friends. Ask a random Detroiter, or take a random poll, or look at actual statistics.

  124. Jean Henry
    Posted January 18, 2021 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    The last time I needed to call police was in Detroit after a car accident where the other driver took off. They never showed up. A friend who lives there told me to call the tow truck and the insurance co and forget about the police. Which I did.

    Have you been following Detroit Will Breathe protests, IRobert?

  125. Jean Henry
    Posted January 18, 2021 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    Shocking, really, that the many Black citizens of Ypsilanti aren’t lining up to talk to IRobert about race on a local blog.

  126. Posted January 18, 2021 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

    Did you get a license plate number on the car that hit you? Because without something very specific to go on the police could not help you. Detroit Police are dramatically understaffed and overworked to come running to a car crash which has no injuries. They will be helpful at the precinct if you have some specific information they could use to identify the other driver that ran from the crash however.

    If you actually lived in Detroit, you would have likely felt the need recently to call the police to come and deal with something happening on your street, in your neighborhood, or even at your house.

    Lynne’s BS about police being for the protection of “white” people against people of other racial make-up is generally not the reality. The people who rely most often on police assistance are people in the most troubled urban areas. I wish Lynne’s boyfriend would be willing to step in and replace her here so we could get the viewpoints of an actual black person. I wouldn’t want to wish it on him though.

  127. Posted January 18, 2021 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    Black people clearly avoid this blog to their credit. That may be just because they see how pointless it is, and can’t stomach the idiocy of the discourse here. I know if I were a black guy and I saw clueless white people spouting all sorts of bullshit supposedly on my behalf, I wouldn’t stick around. Almost nobody has actually.

  128. Posted January 18, 2021 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

    With regard to Detroit Will Breathe, I’ve just seen what they say on their website. I agree with them on many of their goals. I’d assume most Detroiters would agree with them on many of their stated objectives also. There are a few items that would be exceptions I believe. Most people understand facial recognition software should not be used as long as it isn’t practically 100% accurate. I assume they wouldn’t be in favor of it even if it were. They want to end Project Greenlight, but I believe most Detroiters support the program.

    I think the people of Detroit should make all of these decisions, democratically. Very vocal groups should not get some sort of disproportionate say in policy. Outsiders should have very little or no say in any of it.

  129. Posted January 18, 2021 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    The Democratic Party should definitely continue encouraging women and people of diverse backgrounds to run for office. They will self-destruct if they coddle people who push the loony nonsense Lynne and Jean do, or Wobblie does for that matter.

    You two are clearly too self-absorbed to think in terms of effective strategy. You’re both more interested in making yourselves feel you’re leading the fight than you are in contributing to a genuinely effective approach or strategy. There are many like you. That’s why the Dems will likely lose ground again soon. The party is largely comprised of people who are more interested in convincing themselves of something than they are of persuading others toward a better perspective.

  130. Posted January 18, 2021 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    I guess I could understand black people in Ypsilanti thinking the worst of white people. I’ve seen the white people in Ypsilanti.

  131. Jean Henry
    Posted January 18, 2021 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

    iRobert screams into the void.

  132. Posted January 18, 2021 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    Don’t be so hard on yourself, Jean. You’re not that bad.

  133. Posted January 18, 2021 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    How do we get Lynne’s boyfriend to start commenting here, and get Lynne to stop?

  134. Posted January 18, 2021 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

    Oh, I had to leave that guy in California. We aren’t dating anymore. Covid just made things too hard. I am not even going to California this year!

    I am glad to hear you say that you think we should have black women and other marginalized people in charge and that we should listen to them. There is no reason to listen to you and I agree with that too. I think it a good strategy actually. Your strategy of flexing your white maleness around while poo pooing the efforts of the people who are actually doing the work has been proven ineffective I think.

    Are you sad that your mansplaining isn’t having the effect you had hoped, iRobert?

  135. Posted January 18, 2021 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    It is having the effect I expected, Lynne, and I had no hopes with regard to it.

    But yeah, we do agree that we should continue electing more women people that better represent the diversity of the population as a whole.

    I don’t poo-poo the efforts of the people who are actually doing the work. I applaud them. I made it clear I’m criticizing the strategy of divisive rhetoric. I assume you know that and are deliberately misrepresenting me. Such a blatant move is recognized by most people for what it is.

  136. Posted January 18, 2021 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think “defund the police” is divisive. It is offensive to some people. Usually, people who have no idea what the movement is about. While I can see the value in a new slogan, the current one is important to people. Usually, those doing the work. That slogan is important to some of the women I know who are out there doing the work. Sometimes they express that it makes them angry when some white boy thinks he can come on up in here and tell them what to name their goddamn movement. That is all I am saying. I am with them.

  137. John Brown
    Posted January 19, 2021 at 7:19 am | Permalink

    Parler is back online. Hosted on Ruskie servers! I hope everyone starts to understands that agent orange is being boosted by pootine as part of an asymmetrical war on the USA.

  138. Posted January 19, 2021 at 7:44 am | Permalink

    The term “Defund the Police” is divisive against police. It paints all police as the enemy. It may be popular with idiots, but it is very unpopular with the majority of voters, and they decide which party will control government. They will continue to choose to remove Democrats from office, as they did in November’s election, as long as idiots have final say in the goals and messaging of the party. I don’t discourage it. I’m simply making fun of the idiocy of it. Soon we will have another Trumpanzee takeover, and we’ll all be able to thank fools like yourself for it.

  139. Anonymous
    Posted January 19, 2021 at 8:53 am | Permalink


    No matter what we say, we’re all full of crap. It turns out that even though that’s the case, it’s important what type of crap we’re full of.

  140. Posted January 19, 2021 at 9:01 am | Permalink

    The term “Defund the Police” is divisive against police. It paints all police as the enemy.
    That is certainly the version white supremacists have and how they are framing the term. It is about as accurate as when anti-abortion activists call themselves “pro-life”

    It may be popular with idiots, but it is very unpopular with the majority of voters, and they decide which party will control government.

    When you say this, I hear…

    It may be popular with non-white people, but it is very unpopular with white people, and they decide which party will control government.

    I have been asked to help explain what “defund the police” means to other white people. So that is my activism with this. I have found that almost always, once people understand that it isn’t about getting rid of the police but rather not expecting them to be social workers, drug counselors, homeless housers, animal control etc. While it is true that white people, in general, don’t like the slogan, they are often able to get past it.

    Someday we very well have another Trumpanzee takeover and much like this one, it may be in response to very real progress made by marginalized people. If you want to tell yourself that means those fighting for their rightful place in this nation with full civil rights are the cause of this and maybe they should have just known their place and not rocked the boat…well then it seems pretty obvious to me who the real idiot is!

  141. Jean Henry
    Posted January 19, 2021 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    iRobert– you are truly gross. I’m going back to not reading what you have to say.

  142. Jean Henry
    Posted January 19, 2021 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    Translation of iRobert’s comment: “State enforcement of structural racism is a-ok and racist institutions must be tolerated and not criticized in order to make white voters feel more at ease.” They’ll still vote in a majority for the GOP. And Black voters will continue to be the force that wins races for Dems (when they win) but we need to make sure not to indulge their interests too much because talking about equity triggers White status anxiety.

    Lastly Defund the Police was meant to be ambiguous and trigger vigorous conversation about the vastly different experiences of policing in America. It was intended to point to excessive police funding in the way we point to excessive military funding and consider how we can use those funds to make us ALL actually safer. There are many interpretations of the phrase along a scale from reform to abolition. The only thing it makes clear is that the status quo is unaccepotable. Few white Dems flip out when white leftists call to defund the military industrial complex, but when Black people make a similar call re our police force, Dems lose their shit. Black activists don’t exist solely to elect Dem candidates (although they do that REALLY well); they have every right to ask for things that serve their interests even if it causes discomfort for White Dems. In fact I would hold that, given that we will be a majority minority country very very soon, it makes a lot of sense for the party to start listening better to these voices and serve them better. Even Obama walked back his criticism of the phrase. Having actually had conversations with BLM activists after his book came out he called them ‘courageous and media savvy…”

    Voices like iRoberts are increasingly irrelevant. Obama had no choice but to make every white Dem happy. It was awkward and ugly to watch him cowtow to White discomfort. Fuck that noise.

    PS none of this denies that there are many disparate voices within the Black community re policing and many Black police. Or that there is a need for a functional justice system that actually lives up to its own standards. It only speaks to BLM and the call within that movement to defund the police.

  143. Jean Henry
    Posted January 19, 2021 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

    I think the best strategy and the most moral position Dems can take is to simply say bye-bye to white voters who are discomfited by ‘multiculturalism,’ which includes those who say they support it but dismiss those voices. Imagine the voting loyalty that could engender.


  144. Anonymous
    Posted January 19, 2021 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    I interpret Defund the Police in the same way as Defund the INS and Defund the Military; exaggerated figures of speech to grab attention which really means reform and hold accountable, including budgets, police, INS, and the military. It’s just good sense to get satisfaction from any expenditure.

  145. Posted January 19, 2021 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

    The majority of Black Americans do not support the “Defund the Police” mantra. The majority of Detroiters do not support it either. Jean and Lynne are two white suburbanites who don’t care what Detroiters want it believe. They prefer to speak for them. That’s what makes them racist assholes.

  146. Posted January 19, 2021 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

    Jean and Lynne don’t care what the majority of black Americans want or believe, and they don’t care what the majority of Detroiters want or believe. They think they know better. Two white assholes from the suburbs feeling they speak for black people and for people who live in the troubled urban areas in this country, and not interested in what the majority of black people actually feel or think.

  147. Posted January 19, 2021 at 7:29 pm | Permalink

    Jean provides her “translation” and Lynne openly acknowledges she “reads” her own imagined meaning into other people’s comments. Incredible.

    I don’t have to translate or read anything into their comments. My statements are so clear and simple. Jean and Lynne are two white suburbanites who don’t need to call the police in there relatively safe neighborhoods. But they feel they speak for black people and for people living in Detroit and other places where the police are often turned to by citizens.

    It’s disgusting.

  148. Posted January 19, 2021 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

    I am not speaking for black people. I am speaking for myself and telling you what some black people I know say because I have decided that they are right. I have not made any claims about polling in Detroit although FWIW because I grew up there I still have a lot of friends there whom I talk to regularly. They are not upset about the use of the term.

  149. Posted January 20, 2021 at 7:07 am | Permalink

    I’m excited to watch the grand military sendoff for Commander Bone-spurs this morning.

  150. Posted January 20, 2021 at 7:50 am | Permalink

    Fox, Newsmax and the rest of the crackpot media isn’t showing Andrews Air Base, even though all the guests invited to the grand farewell to Trump were to be there by 7:15am. It must be an embarrassing scene.

  151. Posted January 20, 2021 at 8:13 am | Permalink

    You can watch here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qXp_opz1fjo

    Trump is coming out of the White House now.

  152. Posted January 20, 2021 at 8:18 am | Permalink

    A new day dawns—I get my first jab today.

  153. Posted January 20, 2021 at 9:06 am | Permalink

    That loser didn’t even take the time to write a farewell speech. The comments he made “skyrocketed downward.” That’s going to make a fitting addition to his planned presidential library. What a joke.

    His speech writers probably abandoned him weeks ago.

    “We’ll be back in some form.”

    Yes, as defendants.

  154. Jean Henry
    Posted January 20, 2021 at 9:45 am | Permalink

    Anonymous– thanks for being a voice of reason.

  155. Jean Henry
    Posted January 20, 2021 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    iRobert thanks for that link. The empty chair beginning and musical selections were truly bizarre. I was transfixed. I can’t believe they played Fortunate Son.

  156. John Brown
    Posted January 20, 2021 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    Wob, congrats. When they jabbed you did they explain “effective immunity” versus “sterilizing immunity”? This distinction was not evaluated in the rushed trials and is still TBD, and has big implications for how quickly we can return to normalcy.

  157. Posted January 20, 2021 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

    I am glad you are getting the vaccine, wobblie. My parents are getting it tomorrow. Now that we have an adult running things, I expect I will get one soon too!

  158. Anonymous
    Posted January 20, 2021 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

    I’m going to go out on a limb and make the statement that there is no real sterilizing immunity for any type of coronavirus, just effective immunity. Otherwise, the common cold (at least from the coronavirus side) wouldn’t be so common.

  159. Anonymous
    Posted January 20, 2021 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

    If you’ve got a loved one who’s fallen under the spell of Qanon, the next few days could be a crucial window to reach out to them. Their whole world is collapsing around them. They need help & support not mockery & derision. Try to show them a way out of this madness.

  160. John Brown
    Posted January 20, 2021 at 1:40 pm | Permalink

    Anon, your limb is strong. But the common understanding of “immunity” lacks this important distinction and peoples behavior will be based on their understanding.

    WRT unity with those poisoned by lies; they were receptive vessels for the lies and must repent, do penance and beg forgiveness. but I’m a consequences for your actions kinda guy.

  161. Jean Henry
    Posted January 20, 2021 at 3:50 pm | Permalink


  162. Jean Henry
    Posted January 20, 2021 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    Q followers are now saying Trump and the military are going to make a big move in the next few days. They aren’t giving up the narrative ever.


  163. Demetrius
    Posted January 20, 2021 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    Given that we still have a Senate impeachment trial to get through, I know this will be difficult, but I’m really hoping that at some point very soon everyone – on both sides – can stop finally talking (and thinking) about Trump 24/7/365.

    For some unfathomable reason, this man demanded (and frequently achieved), a degree of focus and attention that seemed at times to push nearly all other worthy topics and ideas to the fringes of our politics and our culture. Honestly, the nearly non-stop drama over the past four years has been *exhausting* … and I’m genuinely hopeful we may now be ready to have a collective, national “detox.”

  164. Posted January 20, 2021 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    I think the research into doomsday cults shows that believers don’t always give up when the prophecy turns out to be false. They come up with some story to explain it.

    I almost want to create a Parler account just to see!

  165. Jean Henry
    Posted January 20, 2021 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

    Agreed Demetrius. He was successful because it’s almost impossible not to look at the drama unfolding daily. Makes perfect sense given that he’s a reality tv star.

    I just want him to go away. Impeachment is important to try to prevent him from re-appearing later like the villain in a horror movie

  166. Jean Henry
    Posted January 20, 2021 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

    Lynne I would check out Qanonymous. It’s a good way to keep abreast without giving Qanon folks clicks and so $$.

  167. Tracy
    Posted January 20, 2021 at 10:44 pm | Permalink

    You scum bag liberal piece of garbage..it’s to bad you mother didn’t believe as liberal and late term abort your stupid sorry Ass!!!!! ONLY A LIBERAL WOULD HAVE WHAT YOU HAVE AT THE END OF THIS WHAT IS 6+9…

  168. Jean Henry
    Posted January 21, 2021 at 12:08 pm | Permalink

    ^^ that was awesome!

    Good to laugh.

  169. Posted January 31, 2021 at 2:34 pm | Permalink


    Thanks for keeping us on our toes, Tracy.

  170. Posted January 31, 2021 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    Donald Trump’s entire legal team quits week before impeachment trial: Sources


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