The Horowitz report on the origins of the FBI’s Russia investigation

On Monday, Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz released his long-awaited 433-page report into whether or not the FBI was justified in opening their investigation into contacts between Russian operatives and members of the Trump campaign in the run-up to the 2016 election. And, guess what? It wasn’t the “atomic bomb” that Donald Trump’s supporters had been predicting. When all was said and done, Horowitz didn’t find that Democrats, working on cahoots with the FBI, had illegally spied on the Trump Campaign.

Horowitz, much to the chagrin of Trumpists everywhere, said in the report that the FBI investigation, code-named Crossfire Hurricane, was not only “in compliance with FBI policies,” but that it was “opened for an authorized investigative purpose and with sufficient factual predication.”

So, pretty much everything that the Republicans had claimed that the Horowitz report would confirm turned out not to have come to fruition. There was no evidence, according to Horowitz, that “President Obama ordered the FBI to tap Donald Trump’s phone.” There was no “documentary or testimonial evidence that political bias or improper motivation influenced the FBI’s decision to seek FISA authority on Carter Page.” There was no evidence that the so-called Steele dossier had anything to do with the origin of the investigation. [“We determined that the election reporting from Christopher Steele played no role in the opening of Crossfire Hurricane,” the report reads.] And there was no evince that either FBI officials Lisa Page or Peter Strzok did anything even remotely improper. [“We further found that while Strzok was directly involved in the decisions to open Crossfire Hurricane and the four individual cases, he was not the sole, or even the highest-level, decision maker as to any of those matters,” the report says.]

So, just to reiterate, Horowitz found “no bias” in the decision to open the probe. And no Democrats have been rounded up and taken into federal custody as a result of this report.

Here, if you’re interested, is video of Horowitz on Capitol Hill earlier today, testifying about his findings in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

While Horowitz did say that they found “serious performance failures” by the FBI as the organization sought a warrant to initiate surveillance on Carter Page, it did not rise to the level of what Republicans had been promising over the past year. All in all, Horowitz found that the investigation “was in compliance with Department and FBI policies, and we did not find documentary or testimonial evidence that political bias or improper motivation influenced” the decision.

Even Fox News’s Chris Wallace had to concede that the Horowitz report “didn’t find the things that Bill Barr and Donald Trump alleged.”

Never one to be deterred by facts, however, President Donald Trump responded to this news by tweeting, “They spied on my campaign!” And Sean Hannity, following the President’s lead, announced to his viewers that the Horowitz report confirmed their worse suspicions. “Everything we said, everything we reported, everything we told you was dead-on-center accurate,” Hannity said. “It is all there in black and white, it’s all there.” And, not one to be left out, Trump administration Attorney General William Barr came forward to question the findings of the Horowitz report, just in case anyone were to actually read it, instead of just taking Hannity’s word for it. “(T)here were gross abuses of FISA and inexplicable behavior that isn’t tolerable in the FBI,” Barr told NBC News yesterday. Again, this isn’t true, but it’s not really a surprise, given what we’ve seen from Barr recently.

Thankfully, though, Senator Kamala Harris is now off the campaign trail, and back to work. Here she is firing back at Barr, saying that he should be investigated for “doing the bidding of the president to undermine our intelligence community.”

This isn’t over. Barr and the Republicans are promising a second investigation… one which they assure us will identify Democratic crimes against Donald Trump. You can be sure, however, that if they truly had evidence of such crimes, they would have been shared with Horowitz, included in the report, etc. The truth is, the President and others lied when they told the American people that the FBI investigation into Russian election interference in 2016 had been politically motivated. It was not.

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67 Comments

  1. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 12, 2019 at 12:23 am | Permalink

    Barr’s statement is completely normal to people who listened to the testimony and/ or read the report. The summary conclusions did not match up with the actual contents of the report. It sure feels like serious FISA abuses are going to be brought into even clearer focus and it sure feels like Horowitz knows it. This is phase 1. Many of you might not realize it yet but you are losing again.

  2. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 12, 2019 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    Horowitz was limited in scope to the DOJ and FBI and had no power to indict. Durham has it. All Horowitz had to do is factually establish FISA abuse. Calling numerous abuses that all go against Donald Trump unbiased is kind of lipstick on a pig but that doesn’t matter. Watch what happens with Comey.

  3. Jean Henry
    Posted December 12, 2019 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    They are going to can Chris Wallace any day now.

    I managed a house he rented in Martha’s Vineyard a couple lifetimes ago. He’s a self-important ass. His dad was funny as hell. Maybe also an asshole (I don’t know) but a funny one. Wallace and ex-wife treated me as their servant for the entire time. They asked me to arrange flowers for them every few days. Pick up their friend at the airport, etc etc. It was weird but I had a sweet free housing deal where there was no housing so went along with it. I thought maybe they would tip me well at the end of their month long stay. Nope. Not even a thank you. I managed to be not around as much the next summer during their stay (took a job up island) and they complained. So I don’t like the guy, but I think he’s useful on Fox right now. Maybe he’ll write an expose after they can him.

    Come to think of it now Mike Wallace mostly showed up with cases of booze. He always picked it up and delivered himself and always helped me carry them into the house. Which was more than Chris or his wife ever did. And he was the real reporter.

  4. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 12, 2019 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    Self-important ass is not the only thing he has in common with you. He would fit better at CNN with his anti-Trump bias. Q mentioned Mike one time in response to anon observation about Chris, merely linking to Mike’s wikipedia page and chiding the anon to look deeper. Background relevant?

  5. Sad
    Posted December 12, 2019 at 10:48 am | Permalink

    You’re a pompous ass, Dan, obnoxious, arrogant, and snotty!

  6. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 12, 2019 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    Wait, you are on the Daniel L. trip too?

  7. John Brown
    Posted December 12, 2019 at 11:20 am | Permalink

    Parnas paid Rudy with money he got from Ruskies. Nice treason ya got there.

    “Rudy has worked as Trump’s lawyer for “free,” but Parnas paid him half a million dollars for his work. If Parnas himself was being paid by Russian sources, this means the Russians were essentially subsidizing Trump.”

    https://t.co/5ZNtMeZWhN

  8. Meta
    Posted December 12, 2019 at 11:21 am | Permalink

    CNN: “FBI agents warn of ‘chilling effect’ from Trump and Barr attacks”

    Some federal law enforcement officials are warning of a chilling effect inside the FBI amid attacks by President Donald Trump and Attorney General William Barr over the bureau’s handling of the Russia investigation.

    Current and former FBI officials tell CNN they’re concerned that the harsh rhetoric coming from Trump and Barr has only worsened the bureau’s already tenuous standing with the President, leaving them wondering whether federal agents could be less aggressive the next time they have to pursue a sensitive investigation.

    “We’re constantly told to be agile and use all the legal tools available to us,” said one FBI employee who works on counterintelligence matters. “But who is going to risk sticking their neck out now only to have DOJ chop it off?”

    Barr this week seized on findings in a blockbuster inspector general report to scold the FBI for using “intrusive” tools with only “flimsy” evidence, and he questioned whether they’d been motivated by bias. Those attacks were particularly noteworthy given that the report found no evidence of bias or improper motivation in the FBI’s decisions to use counterintelligence techniques. The report did however point out serious mistakes and mishandling of evidence by the FBI.

    In his criticism, Barr has used language that hews closely to conspiracies from Trump, who maintains that his campaign was illegally spied on. During a rally on Tuesday night, Trump used the word “scum” to refer to FBI employees he believes acted improperly.

    “These comments will have a chilling effect on the workforce,” said one recently retired agent who has handled surveillance warrants under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, the kind abused according to the inspector general report.

    Read more:
    https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/12/politics/fbi-chilling-effect-trump-barr-attacks/index.html

  9. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 12, 2019 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    That doesn’t sound good. Hope nothing bad happened. Based on your record I doubt it. Meanwhile it is all going exactly how I said. Child pornography-possessing guy busted for illegally funding Clinton. How many sex-abuse pieces of shit who helped Clinton with illegal contributions have to get busted before she has to face justice? You have tried to make me feel crazy for telling the awful truth. You are about done being able to try doing that anymore.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/convicted-sex-offender-and-mueller-witness-george-nader-indicted-for-illegal-contributions-to-boost-hillary-clinton
    Convicted sex offender George Nader, who was a key witness in special counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia investigation, has been indicted by United States prosecutors for his alleged role in a scheme to conceal large sums of illegal campaign contributions to help Hillary Clinton in the 2016 election.

    Nader, a 60-year-old Lebanese American lobbyist, is accused of conspiring with Ahmad “Andy” Khawaja, the Los Angeles-based 48-year-old chief executive of Allied Wallet, to conceal the source of more than $3.5 million in campaign contributions to political committees associated with a presidential candidate to gain influence during and after the 2016 campaign.

  10. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 12, 2019 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    Illegal Clinton funder, Mueller star witness, arrested in possession of child porn…Any implications for the ‘ruskie stooge’ brigade he propped up do you think, Johnny? Definitely it’s a shot in the arm for people who have been telling the truth for years like myself and who you hate.

  11. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 12, 2019 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    It’s The RUSKIE STOOGES with their brand new hit single: “Now I Vanna Be Your Slav” on In-Tel Records. Available now at fine propaganda outlets.

  12. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 12, 2019 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    Is that a punk rock record? I love punk rock. Did you know iggy pop is from Ypsilanti? Carpenter road is in Ypsilanti. People don’t know that. Here is another thing people don’t know: Rachel Maddow is from Ypsilanti too. I keep her locked in a square Samsung box in my basement and she does things for me every weeknight at 9:00.

  13. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 12, 2019 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    I would like to announce that in an effort to give back for the holidays, I will be raising money for underprivileged children this Saturday, December 14th. Starting at 10 am I will have a booth set up in the White Castle parking lot at Packard and Carpenter. For a small donation you are invited to kick me in the crotch as hard as you can. All proceeds will go to purchase playthings for needy kids.
    “Toys For Twats with Hyborian Warlord”
    Donate a small amount of cash or a new toy and kick me…right in my twat. Tis the season.

  14. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 12, 2019 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

    Good stuff there. Keep at it and maybe you will have a chance to make a dent in my armor one day.

  15. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 12, 2019 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

    Whoah, you are calling needy kids twats? Dafuq yo.

  16. Lynne
    Posted December 12, 2019 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

    I hope I don’t ruin anyone’s Christmas with this information from my brother in the Deep State. He is currently in the Philippines investigating human trafficking. He has been interviewing many victims. Apparently, not one of them has mentioned Hillary Clinton. What if it turns out she has nothing to do with such things?

  17. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 12, 2019 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

    Why are so many people around her and WJC involved in it?

  18. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 12, 2019 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

    The people that give her big money through illegal means? You don’t think…naw, it couldn’t be. It just can’t, right Lynne?

  19. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 12, 2019 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

    Bill and Chelsea went to Epstein’s Bond villain-style New Mexico ranch where he was impregnating captive women. No word yet on if Hillary went. Pretty fuckin’ wild shit your peeps be up to! You think? Or no: HW is just a…

  20. Bob
    Posted December 12, 2019 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

    Twat. I think that was established earlier.

  21. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 12, 2019 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

    Hey you didn’t answer if you are that bitch ass Bob from Virginia or not. Everyone knows you are a bitch after you threatened me and then pussed out but that would be amazing if you are who I am thinking of. Not too many Bobs around these days. Probably because it is such a dumb sounding name.

  22. Sad
    Posted December 12, 2019 at 9:47 pm | Permalink

    Will the real HW please stand up….

    Please stand up…

    Please stand up…

  23. Jean Henry
    Posted December 12, 2019 at 11:42 pm | Permalink

    https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a30208282/trump-admit-crooked-charity-pay-2-million/

  24. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 7:00 am | Permalink

    “Current and former FBI officials tell CNN they’re concerned that the harsh rhetoric coming from Trump and Barr has only worsened the bureau’s already tenuous standing with the President, leaving them wondering whether federal agents could be less aggressive the next time they have to pursue a sensitive investigation.”

    Meta and I are holding a candlelight vigil at the Arborland mall Chilis, in Ypsi, tonight to show support for any and all of the poor fbi agents who are feeling less aggressive about sensitive investigations because of the Horowitz report.

    #punkrock

  25. Bob
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 10:19 am | Permalink

    Virginia? I don’t know where you got that. I live two streets over from you and walk my dog past you all the tine. I’ll see you tomorrow at the White Castle, HW. I’ve got some steel toe boots for your feeble little ding-dong. For the kids!

  26. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 11:47 am | Permalink

    You hate people who voted our President in so much you actually spend time trying to make up the stupidest, most immature “putdowns” of someone who you have never met. You even crossed the line into threatening to beat me up if you see me even though you are not going to do shit. All you ever do is attempt to enrage me. You never even have an argument on anything factual. It’s 100% abuse therefore you lose. Big crybaby loser who never learned about sportsmanship growing up just like the rest of the smear artists around here.

  27. Sad
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    Poor HW

    Just wait until Mayor Pete beats your guy fair and square.

    Then you’ll be singing a different tune.

  28. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

    Pete’s a dud. He has the personality of a wet blanket. No way he gets the nomination, let alone seriously challenge Trump. You know that.

  29. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    “The polls for me are up because people are disgusted.”—Trump (just now)

    Bingo! Have you people considered how powerful it would be for your side if you just tried to be less disgusting and corrupt? It would be a real gam-changer for you guys.

  30. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

    It does not matter that Bob just admitted he knows where HW lives—because Jean has lawyers in her family and Jean does not know where HW lives . Little known fact: Most legal professionals fail because they fail to see the world through Jean Henry’s eyes. I once got caught stealing a car but I got off when I told the judge “Jean Henry did not witness me stealing the car”. The judge said: “Good point Mr. Flakes”.

  31. Lynne
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

    Indeed, the risk the Democrats took with the impeachment was that Americans will not understand it and will stay loyal to their in-group despite the evidence of serious criminal activity and wrongdoing on the part of our president. But I still think it was the right thing to do. To look the other way under the circumstances would have been ethically wrong.

  32. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    But does the average American believe that the Lynnes of the world are being guided/ motivated primarily by their strong principles? So, on the one hand, what Lynne is saying might “sounds good” if it is accompanied by convincing reasoning; on the other hand, what Lynne is saying bumps the disgust level up to the next level if her accompanying reasoning, for the actual impeachment, is not convincing. Nothing hinges upon whether or not the Lynnes of the world are feeling sanctimonious as they shoot themselves in their feet. They care about whether or not the reasoning behind the decision to impeach is convincing.

  33. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    Seriously, coming off as less disgusting would be an absolute game-changer.

  34. Jean Henry
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    “disgust” FF??? Really? I think you have lost all ground from which to call anyone else a bully.

  35. Lynne
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    FF, yes. I can totally see how people taking a principled stand might disgust a guy like you, especially if it is POC and women taking the stand against a white man.

  36. Jean Henry
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    FF– I have zero interest in knowing who HW is or where he lives. Or you. Or any commenter here. You have become completely unhinged.

    We live in a nation with a pluralist form of government. Your inability to accept any value in alternative points of view or even digest them is anti-democratic. Many on the right are like you and that may help your side win the election but we will lose the country. Why would anyone seriously engage you in political debate knowing you are unmoveable except in the logic defending your narrative? No one here takes you seriously. No one is listening to your lectures or cares if you find them or their ideas disgusting. Except maybe HW and EOS. You can have them.

  37. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

    Saying you are disgusting is so bullying that FF can no longer talk about bullies? That’s ridiculous like everything you say. For example you have asked me many times what my name is so how could you have “zero interest”?

  38. Jean Henry
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

    Hybroian Warlord– If asked you your name, it wa snot because I cared but because I was making a rhetorical point– probably about your cowardice.

  39. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

    Stupid point then. It’s people like you and Bob who are the (wannabe) bullies. Good thing I have a strong mind so I can defend the myself with reason. As more of what I have said comes to pass it gets worse and worse for you. All I have to do is enjoy the show.

  40. Sad
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

    What about your lawsuit? Or was that just more chest thumping?

  41. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

    Lynne,

    Yes. Disgusting.

    I am building off what Trump said today. He said: “I am doing better in the polls because people are disgusted.”

    Even Trump knows that he is doing better not primarily because he is a great guy but because the Lynne’s of the world are so disgusting. Your expressions are the very things that sustain Trump. It is the same old thesis I have had for several years….

    Let me break down what you said “in essence”: You identified **other people’s lack of understanding** as the reason they can not see how right and moral you are to support the decision to impeach. Not only that but you claim that you know impeachment might have bad practical consequences but, like a martyr, you must do the right thing. Do you not see how many many millions of people might find what you are saying repulsive?

    Certain gross character traits are required to say/ think such things, Lynne. Bigots,classists and/ or narcissists are able to say/ think things like that because they “naturally” operate with the foundational assumption that their worldview and judgements are superior both intellectually and morally.

    You can choose to not believe me if you want but my guess is that people react with immediate disgust, upon hearing many of your expressions. My guess is people inside of your bubble, which is likely made up of like minded bigots-brains, find the things you say perfectly normal.

    Luckily we are evolving. It is all part of a process…

  42. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 6:20 pm | Permalink

    Jean,

    Maybe I was being too subtle. You ridiculed HW for mentioning legal ramifications for Bob’s threats. A big part of your supposed basis for ridicule was your assumptions, not least of which, was the assumption that Bob does not know who HW is. And a bunch of other bullshitty assumptions but you get the drift….Now we have Bob saying he walks past HW’s house and knows who he is. Just because Jean does not know who HW is does not mean other people don’t.

  43. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

    Don’t think I mentioned a lawsuit. That was Jean. All I said is I don’t consent to harassment and abuse. If the law was ever involved in some way it would not hurt to have that on record. Chest thumping, huh? I suppose there are worse things to be accused of. What do you call threatening to beat up, hack up, shoot up and rape a man like Bob and John Brown and the disgruntled dishwasher?

  44. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

    “FF, yes. I can totally see how people taking a principled stand might disgust a guy like you, especially if it is POC and women taking the stand against a white man.”—Lynne

    Lynne, you are a one-dirty-trick pony who is not even very good at that one-dirty- trick. Do you really think those smear attempts work against other people?

    May I ask: Why would I not want someone to take a principled stand? You make no sense Lynne. When a less powerful person takes a principled stand against someone who is more powerful I, like most normal people, think of those people as the highest sort of heroes.

    May I ask: Who is the woman of color that I hate to see taking a principles stand, in this scenario? What are you talking about? It sounds so stupid…We’re you just making a general statement about me? Haha… keep practicing your one dirty trick, Lynne, because you know what they say about old dogs.

  45. Jean Henry
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    Remind me next time FF or HW call anyone a liar to post this again: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/12/13/trump-told-same-story-about-jewish-friend-four-times-three-months-each-time-name-friend-changed/

  46. Jean Henry
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

    HW– my recollection is that you suggested you could sue or take legal action of some kind later in that thread. I seriously doubt I would have jumped to that conclusion based on the warning you issued.

    FF– It does change things when someone who threatens you physically announces they know where you live. Bob is a bully and an asshole with no points to make. We can all agree on that.

  47. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

    So what? Everything your fave politicians do is dirty. Just like I said they lied to FISA with the dirty dem dossier to spy on Carter Page to get to candidate Trump. You said it’s a conspiracy theory so now you have to eat that. You are a proven liar. I have shown it over and over ad infinitum over that last three years. Even when you are trying your best not to you can’t get it right.

  48. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

    “HW– my recollection is that you suggested you could sue or take legal action of some kind later in that thread. I seriously doubt I would have jumped to that conclusion based on the warning you issued.”

    No, you are the one who started spazzing out about how you can’t sue for abuse of a pseudonym. Another example of exactly what I just said rendered AS I WAS SAYING IT. Incredible

  49. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

    Not just spazzing out but flinging abusive shit in my direction. I’d be worried if I had no idea what I said and did from day to day.

  50. Jean Henry
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    Well if anyone can find that thread, I think it would be useful to review it.

    PS no one remembers what they said perfectly. No one. Your perfect memory is just another one of your delusions HW. http://theconversation.com/are-memories-reliable-expert-explains-how-they-change-more-than-we-realise-106461

  51. Jean Henry
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 7:40 pm | Permalink

    Regardless, you can also not sue for being ‘bullied’ on a blog that you opt to participate in. Your warning would have no legal relevance should Bob decide to come to your house and beat you up. That would be illegal on its own merit. You could seek a personal protection order from Bob now that he has 1) made threats and 2)indicated he knows where you live. That’s reasonable. Many people like to make legal-sounding statements about the use of their content, etc on social media but none so far have been enforceable in court. When you go on any internet site, you are agreeing to the terms of that site and its host. You do not get to set them yourself as a user.

  52. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

    Wait, somebody told a lie to the fisa courts, HW? I think you must be mistaken. In his fine article, Mark indicated that nothing too bad happened around the FISA apps. Horowitz already graded out the explanations given for the “performance mistakes” as “unsatisfactory” —so what else is there to say about it really?

  53. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 13, 2019 at 11:22 pm | Permalink

    When did I ever say I remember things perfectly? I think you are just mad because you are factually in error every single day and you can hardly find a single thing wrong in what I say.

  54. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 14, 2019 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    Awww shit

    https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1205282878143238144

  55. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 14, 2019 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    Mark on Carter Page back when Mark thought something seemed amiss about Carter Page:

    Posted June 7, 2017 at 6:26 am | Permalink
    The only thing that makes me think, even for a minute, that there might not really be a vast conspiracy afoot is the fact that he remains alive and on television. He just seems like such a liability to me, like someone who lacks the strength to hold onto the lie much longer. Maybe I’m selling him short, but I can’t see him standing up to real FBI interrogation, and it’s so unbelievably obvious that he’s lying… even comically so.

  56. Sad
    Posted December 14, 2019 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    HW you really underestimate Mayor Pete. But I guess that’s to be expected with your obsession with power.

    But I could be wrong. Time will tell. Trump is pulling off a lot of winning lately.

    https://www.southbendtribune.com/news/opinion/viewpoint/south-bend-officials-proud-to-endorse-pete-buttigieg-for-president/article_bb03a31c-1daa-11ea-b771-67e72ebb9499.html

  57. Jean Henry
    Posted December 14, 2019 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    FF– you condemn Mark for suggesting he ALMOST believes a conspiracy theory about Trump with the most dismissive of tones.

    And yet every day you let HW and EOS go off about crowd strike or global warming or how Trump is taking down the entire deep state and just you wait with absolute certainty and you let that slide.

    Your double standard is showing again.

    It’s entirely possible that you have some valid points to make but your bias goes well beyond political affiliation and that makes it nearly impossible to take you seriously.

    I would say your approach creates disgust among left leaning and moderate folks but that would be a ridiculous line of argument, proving nothing. I can’t tell you how to win elections. That’s not something hanging in the balance of what happens on MM.com. I can tell you how to better be heard by people with differing view points– which is something you very much seem to desire given the amount of focus you give your posts on this forum. You need try to be more even handed. Your clear double standard makes you accusations of political bias against Mark fall flat. We all have political bias. You, however, apply more righteous outrage to your one-sidedness than anyone else here except DD/Wobblie. It makes you look foolish when you try to stand on the side of reason. You are a clown.

  58. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 15, 2019 at 2:00 am | Permalink

    I am condemning Mark because he almost believed a conspiracy theory? Huh? I really don’t understand what you are talking about. For 2 years Mark 100% believed and pushed the Trump / Russia conspiracy theory. It was not a theory about “collusion” it was a theory about “conspiracy”—It was a conspiracy theory! The Horowitz report is the first glimpse of what will very likely be considered illegitimate surveillance on Carter Page after things unfold a bit more. Mark thinking Carter Page was “obviously lying” says everything about the status of Mark’s mind being entrenched in false theories and says absolutely nothing about the veracity of Page’s statements and much less about Page’s status as a Russian asset.

  59. Jean Henry
    Posted December 15, 2019 at 4:40 am | Permalink

    FF– The language you cite expresses doubt about a conspiracy not certainty: “The only thing that makes me think, even for a minute, that there might not really be a vast conspiracy afoot is the fact that he remains alive and on television.”
    Please find a statement of certainty about Russian collusion that Mark made about Russian Collusion.

  60. Jean Henry
    Posted December 15, 2019 at 5:28 am | Permalink

    Ack–** “Please find a statement of certainty about Russian collusion that Mark has made.”

    Looks like judge Napolitano will get fired along with Chris Wallace:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU-wG4017EY&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR1HmN48MC2NwLpxI3ArGD58IoRsLKWWlOVVwxTivWXTZE1Arewp1eTQCpA

  61. Jean Henry
    Posted December 15, 2019 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    Well this was prescient:
    https://billmoyers.com/story/increasingly-necessity-15-point-guide-surviving-authoritarianism/

  62. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 15, 2019 at 10:10 am | Permalink

    Jean,

    Why would I search for evidence for an argument I am not making? I am not trying to establish Mark’s certainty. The term is “conspiracy theorist” not “conspiracy certainty-ist”. Mark can’t have knowledge of something that is not true, so there was always already an impossibility for Mark’s certainty/ knowledge, in so far as we accept the conclusions of the Mueller report.

    You have offered some decent articles that explain the psychology of conspiracy theorists. You should re-read those articles and apply the insights gleaned to many of Mark’s arguments.

    The reason I think Mark’s 2.5 year old comment is interesting is because it is a rare instance where he, in the early stages of his theories, expressed doubt about his Trump-Russia conspiracy theory. He quickly pushed those doubts aside, however, as his belief in his primary overarching theory informed/ influenced his secondary judgment about the status of the veracity of Carter Pages statements. That is, Mark judged that it was “so unbelievably obvious that [Page was] lying… even comically so”—but Page was not lying. Why though? If we accept the evidence of the Horowitz report as true, then the oddness of the interview that Mark was perceiving had nothing to do with Page being a supposed liar, rather the feeling of oddness was arising because Mark was unable to fit the statements of an innocent man telling the truth into his theory, which day by day, was increasingly being constructed out of falsehoods and lies that he both absorbed and pushed.

    The thing I can’t understand is why isn’t Mark pissed off at all the people who have filled his mind with a constellation of falsehoods that seemingly have functioned to greatly hamper his ability to make basic judgments.

    #punkrock

  63. Sad
    Posted December 15, 2019 at 10:24 am | Permalink

    The man could be fatally ill FF –

    Stop the hectoring.

    Go over to Electablog it the same stuff but more people for you to attack!

  64. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 15, 2019 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    Sad,

    Putting aside Mark’s possible serious illness—which I was not aware of until you mentioned it.

    You think it is bullying but I think it should be considered an early Christmas present. Not everyone is like you Sad. Many people do not go out of their way to avoid conflict at all costs. I have grown to accept that is just the way you are. I don’t judge you for it. It is your chosen path. It takes all kinds.

  65. Frosted Flakes
    Posted January 2, 2020 at 12:16 am | Permalink

    My New Year’s resolution is to offer videos to Jean that she refuses to watch.

    https://youtu.be/1yfXxeJn3Tc

    “Comey is solid”—Jean Henry

    “Comey has a posse”—Mark Maynard

  66. Jean Henry
    Posted January 2, 2020 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    I’m not going to watch the video, but I have also criticized Comey before in this forum. My opinion of him is decidedly mixed. I don’t know the context of that quote of mine, but I imagine it matters. PS Comey was a registered Republican until 2016. Mueller too.

  67. Frosted Flakes
    Posted January 2, 2020 at 11:42 am | Permalink

    Yes Jean, understanding the context of your decidedly mixed opinions is crucial.

    Ah Ah
    Ah Ah

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