Donald Trump still hasn’t met with Ukrainian President Zelensky, but the Russians, who hacked our 2016 election, are back in the White House

House Democrats today unveiled two articles of impeachment against President Donald Trump. Trump, apparently feeling somewhat invincible given the fact that Republicans still hold a majority in the Senate, marked the occasion by inviting Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov back into the White House. Before going into his private, closed-door meeting with Donald Trump, Lavrov told members of the press that Russia did not interfere in our 2016 election. “We have highlighted once again that all speculation about our alleged interference in domestic processes in the US are baseless,” he said. “There are no facts that would support that… no one has given us this proof because it simply does not exist.” This, of course, is absolute bullshit, and, contrary to what Lavrov says, the proof does exist.

The fact that the President of the United States would bring a representative of a hostile foreign government into the White House to spout demonstrable lies about election interference on the very day that the House demonstrated, by way of articles of impeachment, that he’s once again seeking to illegally influence the result of an election, tells me that he has no plans whatsoever to curtail his corrupt practices. Going into this, I would have thought that the specter of impeachment might brush him back a bit, but that’s clearly not the case. If anything, he’s pushing forward with more intensity. God help us all.

update: Here Donald Trump is after the meeting with Sergey Lavrov, on the campaign trail, proclaiming once again that the Russians did not interfere in our 2016 election. This, again, is a bald-faced lie, and it should scare the hell out of every American citizen.

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40 Comments

  1. John Brown
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 7:14 am | Permalink

    Our first Russian President. Nice fucking job GOP.

  2. Jean Henry
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    A preview of the next conspiracy theory being ramped up for our resident Trumpers here at MM.com: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/giuliani-has-a-new-conspiracy-theory-to-mainline-into-gop-bloodstream

  3. Steve Silberman by proxy
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    This photograph will go down as one of the most profound betrayals of America in its 243-year history. I can barely imagine what Russia experts all over the world are thinking. Thanks, Republicans. May your grandchildren spit in the dirt when they hear your names.

  4. Anonymous
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 12:08 pm | Permalink

    Where are all of our resident Trump fans? I see that they’re leaving comments on other threads, but not here. I find that curious.

  5. Jean Henry
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    Anonymous– They are being distracted offering their takes on judaism. This won’t deter them They fucking love Putin now. Trump and Lavrov were no doubt discussing next steps for taking down deep state corruption

  6. Meta
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    Wired: “Fox News Is Now a Threat to National Security: The network’s furthering of lies from foreign adversaries and flagrant disregard for the truth have gotten downright dangerous.”

    Monday’s split-screen drama, as the House Judiciary Committee weighed impeachment charges against President Trump and as the Justice Department’s inspector general released a 476-page report on the FBI’s handling of its 2016 investigation into Trump’s campaign, made one truth of the modern world inescapable: The lies and obfuscations forwarded ad infinitum on Fox News pose a dangerous threat to the national security of the United States.

    The facts of both dramas were clear to objective viewers: In the one instance, there’s conclusive and surprisingly consistent evidence that President Trump pushed Ukraine to concoct dirt on a domestic political rival to affect the 2020 presidential election, and in the other, Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz found that the FBI was proper to investigate Trump’s dealings with Russia in the 2016 presidential campaign.

    But that set of facts is not what anyone who was watching Fox News heard. Instead, Fox spent the night describing an upside-down world where the president’s enemies had spun a web of lies about Trump and Ukraine, even as Horowitz blew open the base corruption that has driven every attack on the president since 2016.

    Sean Hannity, who had long trumpeted the forthcoming inspector general report and expected a thorough indictment of the behavior of former FBI director James Comey and other members of the “deep state,” had a simple message for his viewers during Fox’s Monday night prime time: “Everything we said, everything we reported, everything we told you was dead-on-center accurate,” he said. “It is all there in black and white, it’s all there.”

    Except they weren’t right and it wasn’t there. But Fox News’ viewers evidently were not to be told those hard truths—they were to be kept thinking that everything in their self-selected filter bubble was just peachy keen.

    Over on Fox Business, Lou Dobbs said the mere fact that the IG found no political bias in the FBI’s investigation of Trump and Russia in 2016 was de facto proof of the power of the deep state.

    John Harwood, long one of Washington’s most respected conservative voices in journalism, summed up Fox’s approach Monday night simply: “Lunacy.”

    It’s worse than lunacy, though. Fox’s bubble reality creates a situation where it’s impossible to have the conversations and debate necessary to function as a democracy. Facts that are inconvenient to President Trump simply disappear down Fox News’ “memory hole,” as thoroughly as George Orwell could have imagined in 1984.

    Read more:
    https://www.wired.com/story/fox-news-is-now-a-threat-to-national-security/

  7. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

    I would comment on this thread but I feel scared. So many good points being made here that it makes me feel intimidated.

  8. The Hill
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

    GOP senator blocks bill aimed at preventing Russia election meddling http://hill.cm/9nzI9fF

  9. Anonymous
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

    Frosted Flakes, are you of the belief that Russia did not attack our election in 2016, or do you just not care that it happened as it helped Donald Trump? I’m truly curious, and I’d appreciate a legitimate answer.

  10. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

    Anonymous:

    Mark offered a video and claimed that, within the clip Trump “proclaim[ed] once again that the Russians did not interfere in our 2016 election”. If you can quote the part of the video where Trump says what Mark claims he said, then I will answer your questions again. I say “again” because I have already answered this question on mm.com several times.

  11. Anonymous
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

    FF, he says in that clip, “Now that the Russia witch hunt is dead, a big fat disgusting fraud.” What did you take that to mean? It may not be as direct as his comments in Helsinki when he said, “President Putin says it’s not Russia. I don’t see any reason why it would be,” but clearly this is something he’s gone back to often, downplaying or downright refusing to accept Russia’s role in 2016, while arguing that others, like Ukraine, could have been the real culprits. Certainly this isn’t a surprise to you. Now that I’ve answered your question, please answer mine.

  12. Bridgekeeper
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

    “What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?”

  13. Jean Henry
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

    “It’s worse than lunacy, though. Fox’s bubble reality creates a situation where it’s impossible to have the conversations and debate necessary to function as a democracy. Facts that are inconvenient to President Trump simply disappear down Fox News’ “memory hole,” as thoroughly as George Orwell could have imagined in 1984.”

    In FF’s case:Facts that are inconvenient to President Trump simply disappear down a cesspool of demands , word parsing and other deflections from looking at the apparent facts of the case.

    In the case of any Trump supporting theories or speculation, FF gives them great consideration and a whole lot of bandwidth re ‘truthiness.’

  14. Jean Henry
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    Points to Bridgekeeper.

    “Snip, snap, snout.
    This tale’s told out.”

  15. Jean Henry
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 2:14 pm | Permalink

    Rare footage of facts inconvenient to Trump after passing through the Fox News “memory hole”
    0:38 until way too long…
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLvgZWHot3k

  16. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

    A little context:

    “Now that the Russia witch hunt is dead, a big fat disgusting fraud, the congressional Democrats are pushing the impeachment witch-hunt involving the Ukraine.” —Trump

    I will answer your question eventually but you really didn’t uphold your end of the bargain did you? I promised to answer your question if you were able to give a quote, from the clip, that supported Mark’s claim about the clip. Do you really believe Trump is saying what Mark is saying Trump saying? You think Trump is saying “I am a victim of a witch-hunt involving Ukraine in the same way Putin is the victim of a witch-hunt involving Russia meddling?” LOL. You do remember that Mueller investigated Russian meddling and possible Trump/Russia collusion, found no collusion, and that Trump referred to the collusion aspect of the investigation as a “hoax” and a “witch-hunt” hundreds and hundreds of times, right?

    I’m sorry. Do you mind answering those few additional questions?

  17. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

    Some play violins as their ships sink others apparently resort to a lot of toilet talk and references to poopy. It might be indicative of an underlying deeper truth. Not sure.

  18. Jean Henry
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

    Oh FF. You are so unredeemably rigid and uptight. At least the rest of us don’t need to use diminutive language like ‘poopy’ and euphemisms to talk about shit. Even EOS can just say Shit.

  19. Jean Henry
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

    FF– Did Mark really say this:
    “I am a victim of a witch-hunt involving Ukraine in the same way Putin is the victim of a witch-hunt involving Russia meddling?”
    Or are you a lying, lying liar with poopy pants on fire?

  20. John Brown
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    FF, that was my same reaction to Agent Orange rambling on about 10-15 flushes! I can’t believe we agee. But I guess thats what “passes” for Presidential with these trumptards. Check out these stable geniuses at his Hershey cult rally…

    Trump supporters at the president’s rally in Hershey, Pennsylvania tell CBS News their thoughts on impeachment and the possibility of his removal: “It would become the second Civil War.” https://t.co/jPUmfWREbX https://t.co/bzT0v9oaWN

  21. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

    Jean: If I follow Anonymous correctly then Anonymous is claiming that Mark is interpreting Trump as saying something like that. If true, it is ridiculous for Mark make such a claim and ridiculous for Anonymous to pretend like it is not a ridiculous claim for Mark’s to make.

  22. Anonymous
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    FF, you’ll have to pardon me, but I’m having a hard time understanding the point you’re trying to make. Are you saying that Donald Trump has never questioned the intelligence community narrative that Russia interfered in 2016?

  23. Sad
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    He’s not trying to make a point he just wants attention.

    Mayor Pete seems to have the best chance of beating in Trump in latest Iowa poll.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/12/11/election-2020-trump-leads-all-top-democrats-iowa-poll-finds/4396754002/

  24. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

    You have a hard time understanding that I am saying Mark said Trump said something in a clip when, imo, Trump did not say that thing in a clip? How is that hard to understand?You either agree with Mark’s interpretation or you don’t. Which is it? I left the door open for a difference of interpretation. I put forth the idea that Mark might be interpreting Trump as saying something like “ I am a victim of a witch-hunt involving Ukraine in the same way Putin is the victim of a witch-hunt involving Russia meddling”. I put forth my reasons for thinking that such an interpretation would be ridiculous. You are welcome to not accept my opinion and agree with Mark if you want. Do you agree with Mark’s interpretation? Which part of what I am actually saying do you not understand?

  25. Anonymous
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    FF, let’s say for the sake of argument that, in this case, you’re right. Let’s say that when Trump said the “Russia witch hunt” was “a big fat disgusting fraud” he wasn’t referring to the investigation into Russian election interference, but the suggestion that he was a knowing participant. With that said, will you please answer my question. Are you saying that Donald Trump has never questioned the intelligence community narrative that Russia interfered in 2016?

  26. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

    Anonymous,

    Why does it have to be like pulling teeth? Trump did not say, in that clip, what Mark said he said. That kid of misrepresentation happens all the time here. Not a big deal in isolation it taken together it adds up to one giant mountain of lies. If I misrepresented someone like Mark just did I would just say “ my bad” “oops”, or “sorry”. What is the big deal in admitting mistakes? Maybe they are not mistakes?

    Regarding what Trump has said —it is obvious Trump has given mixed messages. I think NPR summarizes the situation best:

    “Trump has gone back and forth about what he accepts and what he doesn’t about the nature of the attack. Sometimes he acknowledges it; other times he has cited the denials he has gotten from Putin, saying, “I really believe that when he tells me that, he means it.”

    The president’s position since Friday’s indictments has been that the interference campaign did take place — but that he and his campaign had nothing to do with it. On that point, Trump has been consistent: There was, he says, “no collusion.””

    Do I deny Russian meddling? No. I accept the findings of the intelligence commu Trump has gone back and forth about what he accepts and what he doesn’t about the nature of the attack. Sometimes he acknowledges it; other times he has cited the denials he has gotten from Putin, saying, “I really believe that when he tells me that, he means it.”

    The president’s position since Friday’s indictments has been that the interference campaign did take place — but that he and his campaign had nothing to do with it. On that point, Trump has been consistent: There was, he says, “no collusion.”

    Does FF deny Russian meddling? No. I accept the findings of the intelligence community for now but I also think there are some loose ends and question marks. As I already assumed the Russian’s would try to meddle in all of our elections— I do wonder why we rarely discuss the extent of the meddling. I have heard estimates that the social media end of it involved between $5k and $100k of Facebook ads. Is that not a hilarious figure that seems worthy of discussion? The other side of alleged/accepted meddling is more complicated but it does seem like the pro-impeachment-at- all- costs- crowd wants to avoid the more complicated questions….Which is interesting for a lot of reasons.

    Did I answer your question good enough? There is obviously a lot to discuss about this but I am running out of time right now.

  27. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

    Oops. Sorry. paragraphs 6 and 7 are repeats of 4 and 5. Skip them.

  28. Jean Henry
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

    Trump supporter finds misrepresentation problematic. (funny enough on its own) Demands apology (ROFL)

    Same Trump supporter caught misrepresenting Mark’s viewpoint earlier– failed to apologize.

    FF– “If I misrepresented someone like Mark just did[you just DID!] I would just say “ my bad” “oops”, or “sorry”. [you didn’t!] What is the big deal in admitting mistakes? [And then… the capper:] “Maybe they are not mistakes?”

    FF you just misrepresented Mark with specious conjecture AGAIN!!

    Your double standard is showing again! It’s the only thing about which you are not a prude. Have you know sense of shame! You are constantly attempting to shame/school others with you bloviating nonsense. Double bonus double standard!

    We’ll wait for your apology.

  29. Jean Henry
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    Once more for emphasis:

    FF– Did Mark really say Trump said this:
    “I am a victim of a witch-hunt involving Ukraine in the same way Putin is the victim of a witch-hunt involving Russia meddling?”
    Or are you a lying, lying liar with poopy pants on fire?

    We’ll wait for your apology before answering any of your questions.

  30. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

    Crack head.

  31. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    FF clearly said barky “MIGHT be interpreting Trump as saying SOMETHING LIKE “ I am a victim of a witch-hunt involving Ukraine in the same way Putin is the victim of a witch-hunt involving Russia meddling”.

    Derps gonna derp though.

  32. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

    Jean,

    Are you dealing with some childhood trauma because you lost a lot of arguments, as a child, to your Harvard lawyer dad and Harvard mom, or something? You sound so crazy right now!!!

    Why would I apologize for something I did not do? Am I supposed to apologize for your misinterpretations?

    Let’s give it a try: FF would like to apologize to everybody because Jean is not good at processing information and is prone to misunderstanding. How is that Jean? Do you fee better Jean?

  33. Jean Henry
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

    Did he though? where? “MIGHT be interpreting Trump as saying SOMETHING LIKE “

    Nope here is the whole paragraph. He subscribes to Mark things he never said or even implied:

    “Do you really believe Trump is saying what Mark is saying Trump saying? You think Trump is saying “I am a victim of a witch-hunt involving Ukraine in the same way Putin is the victim of a witch-hunt involving Russia meddling?”

    And when busted on it, he not only doesn’t apologize according to the standard he himself set– but he lashes out and calls me a crackhead.

    Another lie! I am totally drug free. I have two drinks a week maximum. I have never once abused a drug habitually or otherwise.

    Please apologize for misrepresentation, FF. ” “If I misrepresented someone like Mark just did[you just DID!] I would just say “ my bad” “oops”, or “sorry”. [you didn’t!] What is the big deal in admitting mistakes? Maybe they are not mistakes?”

  34. Jean Henry
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

    FF- More scandalous misrepresentations! Imagine! I demand you apologize right now! You think I sound crazy? Ha! Welcome to our world. Turn around’s a bitch isn’t it?

  35. Jean Henry
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    “what Mark is saying Trump saying” nothing equivocal about that.
    I am not a crack head.
    I am not suffering from childhood trauma.
    I have not misinterpreted you — (Ps you are bordering on gaslighting now) The facts are there for all to read.

    FF why can’t you admit you misrepresented Mrk or I? Why are you gaslighting me in order to not admit you made a mistake? Why is it so hard for you to simply admit you made a mistake without offloading the b lame on me? Do you treat your family this way? What was your family like growing up?

  36. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    Turn around is a bitch?

    I don’t think you are doing what you think you are doing so I guess my answer is “no”.

  37. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 5:39 pm | Permalink

    So, you are not on crack cocaine right now?

  38. Jean Henry
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

    Are you FF? Please tell me about your family? Any childhood trauma? Why are you here engaging with means other liberals on MM.com if you have a healthy and active home life and supportive friends who are willing to listen to you?

  39. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 11, 2019 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

    I do miss iRobert. He always made me laugh even when he was poking fun at me. Smart and funny guy.

    I have been wondering about DD too. Hope all is well with him. I was a little worried about him to tell you the truth. He was mentioning that he was part of the “walking dead” kind of a lot. I hope he did not fall ill or something….

  40. iRobert
    Posted December 14, 2019 at 9:47 pm | Permalink

    If EOS manages to get Jean to stop commenting here by sacrificing his own option to comment here, I propose we build a real-world monument to him and place it in the center of a park we name in his honor.

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