Trump says he wants the story of Cesar Sayoc to “disappear rapidly.” We cannot allow that to happen.

This is Trump supporter Cesar Sayoc. He was arrested yesterday in Florida and charged with sending at least 13 explosive devices to prominent Democrats and others who have been critical of the President. While there are still some on the far right who are maintaining that this was a “false flag” operation perpetrated by Democrats in order to change the course of the midterm elections, the evidence seems pretty clear that Sayoc is actually what he appears to be… a far right conspiracy theorist with thousands of dollars in Trump branded clothing, a history of attending MAGA rallies, and a van plastered with images of the president’s critics, shown with targets over their faces. And, of course, there’s a social media trail going back years, showing numerous Qanon-esque conspiracy theories about Hillary Clinton, George Soros, and other people known to have received explosive devices in the mail this week.

As for when Sayoc went off the deep end, his cousin, Lenny Altieri, had the following to say to the Washington Post. “He didn’t discuss politics (previously),” he said. “This had to be when Trump got in, very recently, that he lost his mind.” In the same article, Sayoc’s former employer had this to say of him; “He would categorize himself as a white supremacist,” she said. “He would just say, ‘Take back the world.’ That’s what he would always say, ‘Take back the world.’”

Here’s a closeup of one of the windows on Sayoc’s van. [Rush Limbaugh, by the way, went on the air yesterday saying that the stickers look too pristine to be real, implying that the whole thing is fake. “This van, every window has stickers, decals, bumper stickers. There’s so many of ’em you can’t see out of these windows… How in the world does a van like that in South Florida not get defaced?,” he asked his listeners.]

Donald Trump, who, as you’ll recall, earlier suggested that these bombs were the result of the “purposely false and inaccurate reporting” of the news media, was asked last night if he felt at all responsible for Sayoc’s actions. He responded, “Not at all, no. There is no blame. There is no anything.” He was also asked if he had any plans to reach out to any of those people who were targeted for assassination, to which he responded, “They wanted me to, but we’ll pass.

And this is the world that we now inhabit. It wasn’t too long ago that the President of the United States was called “unpresidential” for wearing a tan suit. And here were are, just a short four years later, living under the rule of a President who not only refuses to call those individuals who were marked for assassination by one of his supporters, but actually continues to attack them in front of a mob chanting “lock her up”.

Trump said earlier yesterday that he’d like for this story about Sayoc to “disappear rapidly,” as it might very well impact the midterms. Well, we cannot allow that to happen. Donald Trump, you can be sure, would not be saying the same thing had it been a Democrat that had sent out these bombs, and we cannot allow him, and his party, to just move on from this unchallenged. The truth is, this was a serious attempt to take out Democratic leadership, and it was carried out by a man who, by all accounts, was radicalized by our President. This should be alarming to every American. And we can’t just ignore it, like they want for us to. We can’t just let Fox News move on to their coverage of the new McRib sandwich, like this never happened. Because, you can be sure, this will happen again. And next time, the people targeted may not be so lucky.

We have to stop this on Election Day. We’ve seen where this is going to lead if we don’t put a decisive end to it. This really is our last chance… So, please, find your polling place. Read your sample ballot. Make your voting plan. And call your friends. The future of our democracy, if not humanity itself, depends on it.

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93 Comments

  1. Amy Siskind by proxy
    Posted October 27, 2018 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    Trump is not going to tone it down. Ever. After midterms, if we don’t put a check on him, the rhetoric will only intensify. He is constantly pushing boundaries. When he passes one without accountability, he pushes further. The GOP will do nothing. No one is coming to save us.

  2. John Brown
    Posted October 27, 2018 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

    Robert Bowers should take our mind of Cesar Sayoc. Amirite?

  3. wobblie
    Posted October 27, 2018 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    These are all left wing deep state distractions from the real problem of the caravan approaching our borders.

  4. wobblie
    Posted October 27, 2018 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    https://theintercept.com/2018/10/27/here-is-a-list-of-far-right-attackers-trump-inspired-cesar-sayoc-wasnt-the-first-and-wont-be-the-last/

  5. Posted October 27, 2018 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

    And today at least 11 were gunned down in a Pittsburgh synagogue.

  6. Posted October 27, 2018 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

    From the Washington Post.

    Robert D. Bowers, who authorities said attacked a Pittsburgh synagogue during Saturday morning services, appears to have targeted Jewish people on a social media account rife with anti-refugee, anti-Semitic and white supremacist posts.

    The postings, which were listed under Bowers’s name on the social media site Gab before the account was deactivated Saturday afternoon, could offer the clearest window into the mindset of the 46-year-old, who police say stormed Tree of Life synagogue shouting anti-Semitic slurs and firing an assault rifle in an attack that left 11 people dead and six wounded, including one in critical condition.

    Gab, a social media site similar to Facebook and Twitter that is popular with white supremacists and other far-right figures, confirmed that it had deactivated an account in Bowers’s name following the shooting.

    The account, which appeared to have been started in January, included a bio that reads: “jews are the children of satan.” His background photo was a radar gun that reads “1488,” a number that combines two codes — the “14” referring to a 14-word white supremacist slogan and the “88” being a neo-Nazi symbol meaning “Heil Hitler.”

    The account frequently reposted from others, including a cartoon referencing the phrase “zionist occupied government,” which white supremacists use to suggest that the government is controlled by Jewish people…

  7. Sad
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 6:53 am | Permalink

    Seems like events have given FF and HW a moment to pause and reflect .

  8. Anonymous
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 7:09 am | Permalink

    These people are absolutely insane.

    https://twitter.com/deplorablechoir/status/1055904998482210817?s=21

  9. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 8:48 am | Permalink

    Too bad Bowers hates Trump and Sayoc is a joke. Obviously he wanted to get caught. What does that suggest to you mindless minions?

  10. John Brown
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    Bowers was a qanon guy like you HW. You’re in some despicable company. He only hated Agent Orange for not being more aggressively fascist. Hardly an exoneration of GOP for weaponizing hateful morons.

  11. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 9:09 am | Permalink

    Wrong. Does it feel weird to always be corrected by someone you hate?

    “QAnon is here to get patriots that were against martial law in the 90’s to be the ones begging for it now to drain muh swamp. But go ahead and keep saying you are Winning.” – Robert Bowers

  12. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    So you are aligned with Bowers against Q and the President. Nice.

  13. John Brown
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 9:43 am | Permalink

    The details of the delusion hardly matter when the key shared trait is the state of delusion. I don’t try to make sense of anything you or Bowers or Sayoc say anymore than I could make sense of what Charles Manson said.

  14. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    So just punt? I just got a 99 yard return on you. You are ridiculous.

  15. Sad
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 10:05 am | Permalink

    HW you are correct that he disliked Trump for associating with Jewish people but he shared Trumps belief that immigrants are a threat , that is non white non Christian people who are coming here or who are already here.

    The bomber might be a nut job but that’s who Trump appeals to, you’ve illustrated that for us for years now.

  16. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 10:34 am | Permalink

    If you can’t accept the reality of the many threats to the USA that come with illegal entry then that’s okay. You aren’t ready to deal with reality yet so you have to try to make me look I am the one in your position. You are so simple. You can’t even admit to yourself “gee, the timing of all this shit is kinda suspicious…could it be…[what HW said?]”

  17. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    So Obama is a racist xenophobe right? He said we cannot allow illegal immigrants to pour in. Oh, he didn’t mean it? That was just talk to cover for massive illegal immigration that he was actually cool with? Make it however you want. It’s no problem. Reality is elastic.

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1054874705491120133

  18. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    Reflection? Ok. Let’s reflect together. Does Trump have anti-Semitic messaging despite having Jewish family members? Offer examples. Is Trump’s policy and messaging considered anti Israel? Offer examples. Trump is a critic of MSM. We all know this to be true. This isn’t a trick question: Do you think news organizations like CNN are doing a good job of giving us information in a truthful way, sad? Is Trump right or wrong to be critical of news organizations like CNN?

    The inability to categorize in an honest way is indicative of a pretty big problem.

  19. Sad
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    Right. Obama was against illegal immigration and deported a lot of “good “ people, but he never publicly cast them as a threat to our civilization. Obama also had a bad relationship with the media, but he never had rally’s calling them the enemy of the people.

    The first step in getting better is admitting you have a problem. Stay sick, I don’t care, it’s even a little amusing.

    I can’t wait for Christmas so we can have the Christmas story and EOS railing against illegal immigrants. That and It’s A Wonderful Life let me know the season has arrived.

    If you take another vacation FF you might still be able to enjoy the fall colors.

    I know HW, I’m a derp.

  20. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    Why try to hide illegal activity associated with illegal immigrants? Drugs and human trafficking and terrorism coming through our borders isn’t real?

  21. Sad
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

    You can do all of that without demonizing people for political advantage

    And who was terrorizing America this week? Americans.

    Maybe you’re the derp.

  22. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 1:17 pm | Permalink

    Sad,

    I have honored your request that I take a “vacation” twice now. Both times I gave myself a self imposed ban of 2 weeks. Are you asking me to take another vacation because I asked you to answer a couple of basic questions? I have noticed people around here hate (!) to answers questions. Are you one of those people, who have placed themselves, on a permanent vacation from answering questions?

  23. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 1:17 pm | Permalink

    Why?

  24. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    How is it demonization to say the truth? There are in fact rapists, human traffickers, murderers, terrorists and drug smugglers coming from South of the border. Is that too much in opposition to your “narrative” for you to even think about?

  25. Sad
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

    There are in fact rapist, human traffickers, murders, terrorist and drug smugglers who are Americans. Should we stop everyone from leaving also? How about an increased police state here?

    I thought I answered FF, could you rephrase them and I’ll try again ?

  26. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    So equal opportunity for illegal immigrant criminals then. US citizens do it so non-US citizens should be able to do it too.

  27. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

    Huh?

    I asked you questions about Trump’s supposed anti Semitic and supposed Israel stances. I also asked you if you think Trump is right to be critical of news sources like CNN.

    I ask in part because I really don’t know. The worst thing I could find is that he called John Stewart by his birth name. Do you have some good examples of Trump’s anti-Israel/Jewish stance?

    We are supposed to be reflecting on this stuff right? So we can figure out the real reason somebody might want to do something horrible like shoot people, right?

  28. Sad
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

    As I said before, I don’t think it’s right Trump to label the press “ enemies of the people” even if he doesn’t like CNN and even is CNN is slanted in their coverage.

    I don’t think Trump is anti-Semitic per se. But when he goes on about George Soros and invading immigrants he others people and that might feed into some nut jobs actions, or not. It’s hard to prove causality but I can’t help but wonder about the correlation.

    He’s just a despicable person. You like him, fine. I really worried about a week from a Tuesday but we’ll see.

    HW, i’m just sure there’s lot of good people in that caravan, you can understand that, can’t you?

  29. wobblie
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

    FF,
    Trump gives credence to the fact less conspiracy theory that Soros pays protestors.

    Donald J. Trump

    @realDonaldTrump

    The very rude elevator screamers are paid professionals only looking to make Senators look bad. Don’t fall for it! Also, look at all of the professionally made identical signs. Paid for by Soros and others. These are not signs made in the basement from love! #Troublemakers
    9:03 AM – Oct 5, 2018

    We know Soros is Jewish. Who are the mysterious “others”?
    The whole fantasy that people exercising their rights as citizens, but are instead paid by Jewish Financiers is rooted in the Czarist anti-semetic publication “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”.

    It is not at all unusual for “magical” thinkers to be extremely pro-Zionist and vehemently anti-semetic. Try reading Mein Kampf. Hitler had nothing but praise for Zionism. His whole National Socialist program and fixation on the Aryan Nation was based on his understanding of Zionism and how it had made possible the survival of the Jewish people for thousands of years, despite the hostility of all around them.

    Trump and his current wife have fed at the trough of racialism their whole lives. Probably the one thing that holds that relationship together.
    I won’t bother talking about his Islamophobia, and racism against people of color, his entire politics are based on generating hatred for the “other”.

  30. Anonimal
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    HW,
    How about an over under on the caravan? IMO, the numbers that arrive via the caravan will be so low as to not matter. Lets say 1000? Everyone else will drop out once they get to central mexico (too far south, too hot, too far north, too dangerous, mexico city, juuust right!). 20? I only mean if they reach the US border, if Trump turns them around and its more than 1000, you win. I just think its time that you start putting some money behind some of your theories. We can do cash app or something that doesn’t require a name. Just let me know in the comments and we can keep track

  31. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    Fuckin’ whack-a-derp

  32. Sad
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

    Every time we prove you wrong and you just come back and spewthis dribble.

    The things about derps is it takes one to know one.

    I know you are but what am I?

  33. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

    What do you think you proved?

  34. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 6:29 pm | Permalink

    I don’t care if Soros is Jewish. I don’t even care how Soros spends his money. It is his money and he can fund whatever causes he wants. However, I also don’t object to knowing where activist groups get their funding. Do you object to knowing who the big donors are to activist groups? You do know that Trump correctly identified a financial connection between the elevator screamer and Soros right. It is a non-controversial fact that Soros is one of the funding sources of her activist organization. Again, I don’t care. However, isn’t it a bit of a stretch on your part, to claim Trump, who pointed out a fact about one of his political opponents, is the same as feeding into a conspiracy type fantasy that “Jews seek world domination”? I mean, we are not, within the context of this discussion debating whether or not the “protocols of the elders of Zion” were or were not used to spread anti-semitism, because they were obviously, and it is not debatable.

    Trump is anti-Soros and Soros is a Jew. Is that all you have for the purposes of this discussion? Because Sad and I are trying to find examples of Trump’s antisemitism…. Your example, I have to say, Wobblie, requires quite the leap of logic. I would even say bridging the gap required some magical thinking on your part. Do you have anything? I am open to examples of Trump’s antisemitism…

  35. Jean Henry
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

    Remember when SAD thought HWwas just harmless and amusing and misunderstood and IL and I were big meanies?

    I look forward to EOS’ anti immigrant and other moralistic diatribes every holiday season so I can point out that Jesus was a broke and homeless illegal immigrant seeking refuge from religious bias.

  36. Sad
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think I’ve proved anything HW. You’ve proved what your average Trump supporter is like and I’m eternally grateful. And, still, amused.

    FF however really freaks me out.

  37. Jean Henry
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think HW is anything like the average Trump supporter. Most Trump supporters were either Christian conservatives, party stalwarts, or working class whites ‘votibg With their middle finger.’ HW is on a whole other level of madness; he’s a true believer.

  38. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

    You JUST said “Every time we prove you wrong..” Now you say you haven’t done that. Why don’t you people even know what you say from minute to minute? I smoked your boy AGAIN but to you somehow the opposite is true…but you didn’t say that…but…you did…

  39. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 28, 2018 at 9:44 pm | Permalink

    “Most Trump supporters were”

    Yeah, it’s just a thing of the past. No one supports him anymore.

  40. iRobert
    Posted October 29, 2018 at 7:06 am | Permalink

    I’m in a good mood. I was so relieved to find out the anti-Democrat bomber wasn’t HW.

  41. iRobert
    Posted October 29, 2018 at 7:12 am | Permalink

    What I mean is…I was relieved to find out it wasn’t our beloved HW who was framed for the phony bombs Soros had sent to himself and other prominent Democrats.

  42. iRobert
    Posted October 29, 2018 at 7:14 am | Permalink

    By the way, EOS is still king when it comes to refusing to answer questions. None of you can even come close to unseating him.

  43. Jean Henry
    Posted October 29, 2018 at 8:41 am | Permalink

    “…I changed my mind and do no longer speak of “radical evil.” … It is indeed my opinion now that evil is never “radical,” that it is only extreme, and that it possesses neither depth nor any demonic dimension. It can overgrow and lay waste the whole world precisely because it spreads like a fungus on the surface. It is “thought-defying,” as I said, because thought tries to reach some depth, to go to the roots, and the moment it concerns itself with evil, it is frustrated because there is nothing. That is its “banality.” Only the good has depth that can be radical.” Hannah Arendt to Gershom Scholem, 1964

  44. Jean Henry
    Posted October 29, 2018 at 8:46 am | Permalink

    Radical comes from from the Latin meaning roughly ‘at the root.’

    There really is no impulse more mundane (as in normal) than tribalism and nationalism. Solving humanitarian problems requires deep examination of root causes. Systemic correction is deep work without the use of force. And there’s really nothing more human/banal than the use of blunt force. It’s also uncontrollable in impact.

  45. EOS
    Posted October 29, 2018 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    @Jean,

    Please explain when “Jesus was a broke and homeless illegal immigrant seeking refuge from religious bias.” I would very much appreciate it if you included the relevant scripture quotes and the existent laws that he broke.

  46. Anonymous
    Posted October 29, 2018 at 10:22 am | Permalink

    Are we playing the game of “only scripture is true” and “not in the scripture is false”? What are the rules of discourse? Is “all scripture is true” in effect? What about “historical findings outside of scripture”? What about “scripture is figurative, not literal” or “scripture is religious propaganda”?

  47. EOS
    Posted October 29, 2018 at 10:35 am | Permalink

    @ Anonymous,

    If you want to provide extra-Biblical references from that time period, I would consider that. Did Josephus write about the illegality of crossing borders at the time of Jesus’ birth? The Bible states that he was a sojourner in Egypt for 3 years after his birth, and then he returned home with his parents. He resided temporarily in Egypt and didn’t immigrate. And He didn’t break any laws doing so. Disobeying the law would be sin, and He did not ever sin.

  48. EOS
    Posted October 29, 2018 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    immigrate – come to live permanently in a foreign country.

    sojourner – a person who resides temporarily in a place.

    So he wasn’t broke, or homeless, or an illegal immigrant. The truth is nothing like Jean’s propaganda. But if you are Biblically illiterate you might be fooled.

  49. Anonymous
    Posted October 29, 2018 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    I guess I’m not interested in debating the “factual” elements of a religious text with somebody who believes that the text is literally the entire truth. It would be pointless for both of us, as we have faith in very different things.

  50. wobblie
    Posted October 29, 2018 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    EOS, since you are stickler for the truth, explain this.

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/28/politics/donald-trump-nyse-false-claim/index.html?fbclid=IwAR1zwItDbmEu3E4xQC0Rm4hssQeJrssz3qfrHLqDvtM1SwHk1TaMCG9yVPw

    How do you rationalize your support for a man who when ever he opens his mouth he lies. Your man/God Jesus had the greatest disdain for the hypocrite.

  51. Jean Henry
    Posted October 29, 2018 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    Matthew 2:16
    Ok, he was simply an undocumented immigrant since it was all part of the Roman empire and there was no boundary enforcement, but he did escape from being counted among other Jewish children in Herod’s kingdom.

    He did so to escape being killed but left all those other children to die because of him.

    He also displayed anger, lust and other temptations and he ran away from his parents and his responsibilities (sins). All this is justified in the Bible, often as righteous. Of course I believe undocumented immigrants breaking the government’s law in coming here to escape persecution is also justified, sin or not. The government’s law is not God’s law, EOS. Righteous people often break state laws. Jesus would have understood. He perpetrated destruction and violence in a temple, remember? That was very likely against the state’s law, but not God’s law.

  52. EOS
    Posted October 29, 2018 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

    JH – You really shouldn’t talk about a Bible that you clearly don’t understand.

    He didn’t immigrate – he visited. It was not illegal – Egypt was a part of the Roman Empire, it was easy and legal for Joseph and Mary to travel there. However, Egypt was outside of Herod’s rule, so Jesus would be safe from Herod’s death squad. At the time, Egypt was an imperial province ruled by the Roman Emperor himself, Augustus.

    Righteous anger is not sin. He never lusted. He was tempted but did not sin. https://biblehub.com/hebrews/4-15.htm

    He remained at the temple to do his Father’s business, not to disobey his parents.

    The Roman law did not pertain to activities inside the temple.

    Matt 2:16

    In which version does it say that Jesus was broke and homeless illegal immigrant seeking refuge from religious bias?

    New International Version
    When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi.

    New Living Translation
    Herod was furious when he realized that the wise men had outwitted him. He sent soldiers to kill all the boys in and around Bethlehem who were two years old and under, based on the wise men’s report of the star’s first appearance.

    English Standard Version
    Then Herod, when he saw that he had been tricked by the wise men, became furious, and he sent and killed all the male children in Bethlehem and in all that region who were two years old or under, according to the time that he had ascertained from the wise men.

    Berean Study Bible
    When Herod saw that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was filled with rage. Sending orders, he put to death all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, according to the time he had learned from the Magi.

    Berean Literal Bible
    Then Herod, having seen that he had been outwitted by the Magi, was intensely enraged. And having sent forth, he put to death all the boys in Bethlehem and in all its vicinity from two years old and under, according to the time he had ascertained from the Magi.

    New American Standard Bible
    Then when Herod saw that he had been tricked by the magi, he became very enraged, and sent and slew all the male children who were in Bethlehem and all its vicinity, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had determined from the magi.

    King James Bible
    Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men.

    Christian Standard Bible
    Then Herod, when he realized that he had been outwitted by the wise men, flew into a rage. He gave orders to massacre all the boys in and around Bethlehem who were two years old and under, in keeping with the time he had learned from the wise men.

    Contemporary English Version
    When Herod found out that the wise men from the east had tricked him, he was very angry. He gave orders for his men to kill all the boys who lived in or near Bethlehem and were two years old and younger. This was based on what he had learned from the wise men.

    Good News Translation
    When Herod realized that the visitors from the East had tricked him, he was furious. He gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its neighborhood who were two years old and younger–this was done in accordance with what he had learned from the visitors about the time when the star had appeared.

    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    Then Herod, when he saw that he had been outwitted by the wise men, flew into a rage. He gave orders to massacre all the male children in and around Bethlehem who were two years old and under, in keeping with the time he had learned from the wise men.

    International Standard Version
    Herod flew into a rage when he learned that he had been tricked by the wise men, so he ordered the execution of all the male children in Bethlehem and all its neighboring regions, who were two years old and younger, according to the time that he had determined from the wise men.

    NET Bible
    When Herod saw that he had been tricked by the wise men, he became enraged. He sent men to kill all the children in Bethlehem and throughout the surrounding region from the age of two and under, according to the time he had learned from the wise men.

    New Heart English Bible
    Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked by the wise men, was exceedingly angry, and sent out, and killed all the male children who were in Bethlehem and in all the surrounding countryside, from two years old and under, according to the exact time which he had learned from the wise men.

    Aramaic Bible in Plain English
    And Herodus, when he saw that he was mocked by The Magi, was greatly enraged, and he sent and killed all the boys of Bethlehem and of all of its borders, from two years old and under, according to the time he had searched out from the Magi.

    GOD’S WORD® Translation
    When Herod saw that the wise men had tricked him, he became furious. He sent soldiers to kill all the boys two years old and younger in or near Bethlehem. This matched the exact time he had learned from the wise men.

    New American Standard 1977
    Then when Herod saw that he had been tricked by the magi, he became very enraged, and sent and slew all the male children who were in Bethlehem and in all its environs, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had ascertained from the magi.

    Jubilee Bible 2000
    Then Herod, seeing that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth and sent forth and killed all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the borders thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had understood of the wise men.

    King James 2000 Bible
    Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked by the wise men, was exceedingly angry, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the region thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men.

    American King James Version
    Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men.

    American Standard Version
    Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the Wise-men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the male children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the borders thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had exactly learned of the Wise-men.

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    Then Herod perceiving that he was deluded by the wise men, was exceeding angry; and sending killed all the men children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the borders thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men.

    Darby Bible Translation
    Then Herod, seeing that he had been mocked by the magi, was greatly enraged; and sent and slew all the boys which [were] in Bethlehem, and in all its borders, from two years and under, according to the time which he had accurately inquired from the magi.

    English Revised Version
    Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the male children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the borders thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had carefully learned of the wise men.

    Webster’s Bible Translation
    Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked by the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all its borders, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men.

    Weymouth New Testament
    Then Herod, finding that the Magi had trifled with him, was furious, and sent and massacred all the boys under two years of age, in Bethlehem and all its neighbourhood, according to the date he had so carefully ascertained from the Magi.

    World English Bible
    Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked by the wise men, was exceedingly angry, and sent out, and killed all the male children who were in Bethlehem and in all the surrounding countryside, from two years old and under, according to the exact time which he had learned from the wise men.

    Young’s Literal Translation
    Then Herod, having seen that he was deceived by the mages, was very wroth, and having sent forth, he slew all the male children in Beth-Lehem, and in all its borders, from two years and under, according to the time that he inquired exactly from the mages.

  53. Anonymous
    Posted October 29, 2018 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

    Multiple versions of Brothers Grimm doesn’t make it any more factual.

  54. EOS
    Posted October 29, 2018 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

    Wobblie,

    There is none righteous – no not one. Rom 3:10

    If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8

    “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” John 8:7b

    Trump is a flawed human, just like every one of us.

  55. iRobert
    Posted October 29, 2018 at 2:53 pm | Permalink

    Hitler was a flawed human too.

    Did I just somehow excuse him and his supporters by saying that?

  56. iRobert
    Posted October 29, 2018 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

    For the record, my question is rhetorical. I know you have a policy against answering questions, EOS.

  57. iRobert
    Posted October 29, 2018 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    By the way, EOS, you’re arguing with a person who believes children should all have access to pornography.

  58. iRobert
    Posted October 29, 2018 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

    I’m referring to Jean, or course.

    This is also a person who feel so she has a better grasp of racial issues than Martin Luther’s King did.

  59. iRobert
    Posted October 29, 2018 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    Thanks autocorrect. “…who feels she has a better grasp of racial issues than Martin Luther King did.

    That and the “porn for kids” campaign should give you some sense of who and what with which you’re dealing.

  60. Jean Henry
    Posted October 29, 2018 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

    IRobert when dido say children should have free access pornography? There are laws against that. What I said is that children are not harmed by the presence of stri joints or sex shops in their city. I didn’t suggest they should be patrons. That’s absurd. Kids area by all that interested in sex beyond interest in it as something naughty and shameful. There are many cultures with more open and positive sexual morays which have lower eyes of sexual violence, teen pregnancy etc.

    EOS— one doesn’t move to another country for three years as a visitor. If we had looser border rules for laborers as we had in the past’, then more undocumented workers would return home’. Even now many do.

    Not sure why you felt a need to produce every single translation of that single verse I mentioned. What the hell is that supposed to prove? Your google skill? Jesus fled Herods kingdom and sought refuge in Egypt until it was safe to return. That’s a refugee. And an undocumented one as far as Herod was concerned. ‘Doing his fathers work’ is not an excuse for violence. I’m sure the many violent people believe they are doing God’s work— like the people who bomb abortion clinics.

  61. Anonimal
    Posted October 29, 2018 at 10:23 pm | Permalink

    @EOS
    Hanging out in Egypt as long as they did would be somewhat similar to overstaying a visa though. Obviously no paperwork at the time, but there also wasn’t free movement within the empire. They would have had to put together some false pretenses to hang out there that long. It also wouldn’t have been wrong to do so to save a child.

  62. EOS
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 4:21 am | Permalink

    @ anominal,

    No, all the culture required was an invite from a resident. However, if a large group of people approached their borders, they would be treated as invaders and met with force.

    @jean,
    You said illegal immigrant, which is not the least bit true nor backed up by your scripture reference. It was a temporary stay and they returned HOME. There’s no parallel to anything happening today. It’s not OK to distort the truth.

  63. EOS
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 5:54 am | Permalink

    Jean preaches a message consistent with the devil. She’s proud of the fact that she has killed two of her children. Now she wants you to believe that Jesus was a sinner. She was raised in the church and knows better.

    He came to earth as a baby. Lived his entire life on earth as a man, emptied of his divine attributes. And because he did not sin, his death on the cross is our justification. It’s the ransom paid for our guilty lives, so that we are set free from the condemnation of our sins. The judge declared us guilty but Jesus paid the bail. We’re free to live lives that honor God. That’s the Good News that Jean is trying to suppress. Don’t be fooled – reject the devil’s lies.

    https://youtu.be/US1-R-R9lYQ

  64. wobblie
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 6:01 am | Permalink

    EOS your response is Trump is a flawed human being—so lets be sure to put him in charge–evil drives your decision making. News today is your man is going to revoke birthright citizenship. Thought we were a nation of laws. Don’t need no stinking constitution. What I say goes. Only who he wants to be a citizen will get citizenship. Hypocrisy rules.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/30/trump-plans-to-terminate-birthright-citizenship.html

  65. EOS
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 6:26 am | Permalink

    Wobblie,

    What was it that Bill Clinton said? “Stroke of the pen, law of the land.” Didn’t see you protesting any of his executive orders, you hypocrite. Yes, both you and I are hypocrites and every human who has ever lived or will ever live, is flawed. If your standard is perfection, no one is qualified. It is always a choice of the lesser of two evils.

  66. wobblie
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 6:36 am | Permalink

    Wrong again EOS. I went to DC on a number of occasions to protest Clinton policies. But you are nothing but a tribalist. You support sinking our country into a maelstrom of hate. Give the leader the right to decide who is a citizen is quintessential fascist. Hey quick look over there more brown people coming to take —whatever.

  67. Satan
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 6:47 am | Permalink

    Oh no you don’t. You’re not saddling me with that Jean Henry character. I reserve the right to reject some volunteers. I do have some standards ya know.

  68. wobblie
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 7:03 am | Permalink

    EOS, what do you think? This guy is a “flawed” human. Should he only get 15 years?

    “Pointing to Trump’s rhetoric, attorneys for Kansas militiaman convicted of mosque bomb plot ask for a more lenient sentence

    Attorneys representing a Kansas man convicted of a 2016 plot to massacre Somali Muslim refugees by bombing a mosque and apartment complex in Garden City, Kan., have asked a federal judge to consider a more lenient sentence, arguing that President Trump’s inflammatory rhetoric should be taken into account as the “backdrop” for the case.

    Patrick Eugene Stein faces life in prison for conspiring with two other men to carry out the attack, which was supposed to take place on the day after the 2016 presidential election. On Monday, his attorneys filed a memo in U.S. District Court in the District of Kansas, requesting that Stein receive a sentence of no more than 15 years. They note that Stein was an “early and avid supporter” of Trump, and argue that the climate in the months leading up to the 2016 election should be taken in account when evaluating the comments prosecutors used to build their case.

    During the trial in the spring, prosecutors played back recordings in which Stein described Muslim immigrants as “cockroaches” that needed to be exterminated, and talked about killing Muslims with weapons dipped in pigs’ blood. Two months before the conversation took place, The Washington Post’s Abigail Hauslohner noted, Trump had referenced a questionable tale about Gen. John J. Pershing killing Muslims with bullets dipped in pigs’ blood.

    “The court cannot ignore the circumstances of one of the most rhetorically mold-breaking, violent, awful, hateful and contentious presidential elections in modern history, driven in large measure by the rhetorical China shop bull who is now our president,” James Pratt and Michael Shultz, Stein’s defense attorneys, wrote in their sentencing memo, as HuffPost first reported.”

  69. Jean Henry
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 8:06 am | Permalink

    I’m so proud to be associated with the devil by a right winged Christian extremist. The reality is that none of us humans can truly know for certain God’s will. So if I’m not the devil then I guess EOS is the one doomed. I’m not sure. EOS is. That certainty alone according to the Bible would make her more likely to be wrong. Faith is different than certainty. EOS has no holy capacity to condemn me. She knows that.

    But what the hell. EOS is a hateful human almost entirely lacking in empathy and compassion. I want no part of her reality. At least Satan ain’t hatin’.

  70. Jean Henry
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 8:09 am | Permalink

    PS too bad the US is less inviting to immigrants now than ancient Egypt was. Hell we’re about to deny citizenship to people born here based on what criteria? Can’t wait to find out…

  71. EOS
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 8:09 am | Permalink

    No. That flawed human should get a life sentence. God may forgive him, but he is still held accountable for his crimes here on earth. It’s the consequences of sin that make this world so hostile.

    Individuals are held accountable. It makes no difference where their allegiance lies or which group they identify with. The “collective” is not responsible for the actions of an individual.

  72. wobblie
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 8:30 am | Permalink

    Just looking to see how elastic your believes are. No mercy for the deranged following through on the incitements of the President. But give the man who has normalized hate your vote because he is just “flawed”.

  73. EOS
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 8:39 am | Permalink

    Protecting our borders and defending our country is the primary role of government. How does your mind turn that into hate?

  74. EOS
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 8:50 am | Permalink

    Have to admit – Satan made me laugh this morning.

  75. Jean Henry
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    EOS who are you defending our country from? Brown people who contribute positively to the overall economy and do work no one else will do? We need immigrants. They pose no threat. they contribute positively to our country and always have. Homegrown religious zealot terrorists full of moral certainty (mostly Christian) pose the greatest threat to US domestic security right now.

  76. wobblie
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    Defending the country against refugees. Your mental gymnastics are worthy of the thought Olympics. You would be pathetic if you were not enabling a pathological liar and psychotic narcissist.

  77. Jean Henry
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    EOS — I’m not hateful. I dont even hate immigrants for instance. Or poor people. Or woemn who get abortions (46%). You are so consumed by bias aka hate that you can’t even recognize it. Bigotry is the water your swim in, not righteousness.

    I don’t hate anyone. Although Trump is pretty damned hateful. I still think I hate his power more than I hate him. When he loses the crown and is back to being a regular impotent citizen, I’ll be happy.

  78. Jean Henry
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    Ps to all concerned with Totalitarian Creep and the ‘immigration’ crackdown, this article is, unfortunately, coming to fruition as we speak. Trump is trying to play to racism to bolster his base and get them to the polls. This is just the latest example, but it’s fucking criminal. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/23/opinion/trump-birthright-citizenship-mccarthy.html

  79. EOS
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    @ Jean,

    The comment was to wobblie. It’s not all about you. You project a lot. And I don’t accept your projection of hate.

  80. Anonymous
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    It doesn’t practically matter whether you accept it or not. If you act in a manner that makes me think you are a jerk, then it doesn’t matter that you don’t think that you’re a jerk. I’ll treat you like a jerk. If I’m the only one doing it, then it probably is me. If there are a lot of people doing it, then it’s probably you.

  81. Jean Henry
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 10:22 am | Permalink

    “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
    37“Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
    41“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
    44“Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

    This biblical passage is why citizens in my predominantly Christian conservative home area take in more refugees per capita than any other place in the country. They did not need to declare themselves a Sanctuary city to do it. They don’t like political grandstanding. They believe in service to God and community. They believe immigrants enrich their community. https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-38776233/lancaster-pennsylvania-america-s-refugee-capital

  82. Jean Henry
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 10:35 am | Permalink

    This habit of offering to support refugees is not new to the area. My parents sponsored 43 Southeast Asian refugees from 1972 until 1985. Most shared our home for a period of time. I benefitted from growing up in their company. It broadened my life. I’ve also had the opportunity to witness their families’ remarkable progress and contribution to our country. Someday maybe I’ll make a sponsored family tree for my parents. It’s a truly amazing thing to see what these new citizens and their children have brought to the table. Taking in refugees is a longstanding tradition in my home area. One does not have to be an asshole to be conservative or Christian. I’m bothered that EOS represents the Christian conservative perspective here. It plays to common liberal bias; She a poor example of living from faith.

  83. iRobert
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 10:47 am | Permalink

    To be fair, EOS is only doing a cosplay here online. They can’t be expected to know that much about being a Christian in real life.

  84. Jean Henry
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 10:53 am | Permalink

    “EOS
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 9:14 am | Permalink
    @ Jean,
    The comment was to wobblie. It’s not all about you. You project a lot. And I don’t accept your projection of hate.”

    –Fine example of a mind polluted by hate there, EOS

  85. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    Off topic: Am I the only one who does not associate the term “globalist” with being Jewish? It struck me as odd, kind of like when people were saying “thug” is code word for black criminal. Or when we were told “ok” sign means “whitepower”. I am now supposed to believe “Cosmopolitan” is now codeword for “evil Jew”? What do you guys think?

  86. iRobert
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 11:13 am | Permalink

    I was really shocked to see that a dedicated Trump supporter turned out to be a deranged lunatic. The Trump supporters who comment on this blog seem so mentally stable and intelligent. This one bad apple is so out of character compared to the ones we know here.

  87. iRobert
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

    When Castro appointed himself dictator of Cuba, instead of imprisoning all the criminals in Cuba, he sent them to the US. It saved Cuba huge amounts of money which it would have otherwise had to spend on incarcerating these dangerous criminals, and at the same time made Cuban society more civil as a result of these criminals being exported. To the many victims in the US of these criminals, the consequences were great. The decent Cuban immigrants suffered the most from this dumping of dangerous individuals into their communities.

    I see our resident geniuses have no memory of that.

  88. wobblie
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

    Castro came to power in 1959. The refugees from Cuba at that point were welcomed as anti-communist. Some of them proved to be viscous murdering terrorist. But I don’t think those are the Cubans you are remembering. Rather you are probably thinking of the Cuban boat people, who were primarily economic refugees in the mid 1970’s on. Most of those economic refugees were no more criminal than the political refugees of the 1960’s. The economic refugees were of course fleeing a country under a US led economic siege. Since we have normalized relations with Cuba the economic refugee’s have stopped.

    Just like today, the Right wing in this country demonized brown Latin refugees. The primarily white anti-Castro Cubans of the 60’s are responsible for far more death and destruction than the brown Cuban refugees of a decade later.

    My memory of the scare campaigns that are the stock and trade of Republicans is quit clear. That maybe why many of us on the left under estimated the evil that is Trump. He is was just more open about his bigotry, but the policies of the Republicans has hardly changed. Now of course they want to start stripping people of citizenship. Who is the Divider and Chief?

  89. wobblie
    Posted October 30, 2018 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

    One of the central right wing tomes my entire life has been, “Love it or leave it”. When brown folks from other countries follow that advise, they are routinely accused by the right of being “criminal”. But if they spout the right kind of hatred (being the right color also helps), we’ll welcome them with open arms.

  90. Posted October 30, 2018 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    35,000 is a lot of criminals.

    US Hopes to Return 35,000 Criminals to Cuba
    https://havanatimes.org/?p=112729

    Criminals ‘in exodus from Cuba’: US fears Castro emptying his jails – into Florida
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/criminals-in-exodus-from-cuba-us-fears-castro-emptying-his-jails-into-florida-1386288.html

    Trump Was Right: Castro Did Send Criminals to U.S.
    https://www.weeklystandard.com/philip-terzian/trump-was-right-castro-did-send-criminals-to-us

  91. Posted October 30, 2018 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    I am talking about every vicious criminal Castro didn’t want to house and feed. He only made a point of keeping the political enemies he didn’t want free to continue to cause problems for his regime. Naturally every criminal he wanted to dump on the US came as a political refugee seeking freedom.

    35,000 is a lot of criminals. And these are just the ones who were caught, are still alive, and still incarcerated in US prisons in 2015.

    US Hopes to Return 35,000 Criminals to Cuba
    https://havanatimes.org/?p=112729

    Criminals ‘in exodus from Cuba’: US fears Castro emptying his jails – into Florida
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/criminals-in-exodus-from-cuba-us-fears-castro-emptying-his-jails-into-florida-1386288.html

    Trump Was Right: Castro Did Send Criminals to U.S.
    https://www.weeklystandard.com/philip-terzian/trump-was-right-castro-did-send-criminals-to-us

  92. M
    Posted November 1, 2018 at 7:30 am | Permalink

    This happened just days after a failed assassination attempt against George Soros.

    REPORTER: Do think somebody is funding the caravan?

    TRUMP: “I wouldn’t be surprised, yeah. I wouldn’t be surprised.”

    REPORTER: George Soros?

    TRUMP: “I don’t know who, but I wouldn’t be surprised. A lot of people say yes.”

    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1057742231937912833

  93. Richard Haass by proxy
    Posted November 1, 2018 at 12:04 pm | Permalink

    Richard N. Haass, the president of the Council on Foreign Relations.

    “ordering large # of troops to an already defended border not under real threat is not unlawful, but it is unnecessary and sets terrible precedent for the politically-motivated use of our troops. disappointing there is no sign any official has protested/resigned over this decision”

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