A Michigan man, following Trump’s lead, calls CNN to say, “Fake news. I’m coming to gun you all down.”

This past July, in a post about our President’s war on the free and independent press, I shared the following quote from CNN contributor, and lifelong Republican, Ana Navarro, who had, at that point in time, just been a guest on ABC’s This Week, discussing Donald Trump’s heightened rhetoric against the press. “It is an incitement to violence,” she said. “He is going to get somebody killed in the media.”

Thankfully, to my knowledge, no journalists have yet been killed by Trump supporters, but I fear it’s just a matter of time, with our President sharing violent anti-press memes, the head of the NRA listing “media elites” as being among our “greatest domestic threats,” and members of the White House press corps like April Ryan reporting an ever-growing number of death threats. I mean, we’re living in an age where Republican members of Congress are physically assaulting reporters without political consequence, and Trump supporters are wearing t-shirts emblazoned with phrases like, “Rope. Tree. Journalist. Some assembly required.” And, all the while, our President, who, during the campaign, seemed to imply that he was fine with Putin’s murder of journalists, continues to feed the anti-free-press fire here at home, handing out “fake news” awards, and referring to the news entities that his political party doesn’t own as the “lying press.” (In German, the word is “Lügenpresse,” and Hitler was quite fond of it.)

And, today, thanks to documents just made public by the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan, we got a little glimpse as to where all of this is leading… Following are excerpts from the United States v. Brandon Griesemer, the latter being a 19 year old, part-time grocery store employee in Novi, who, between January 9 and January 10 of this year, is thought to have made approximately 22 calls to CNN, threatening to kill members of their staff.


Did you get all that? A Michigan man, believed to be Brandon Griesemer, reportedly called a CNN operator to say, “Fake news. I’m coming to gun you all down.” He then went on, over the course of approximately 20 more calls, to say things like, “I’m smarter than you. More powerful than you. I have more guns than you. More manpower. Your cast is about to get gunned down in a matter of hours.”

Griesemer, you’ll be interested to know, is also accused of having called the Islamic Center in Ann Arbor in September of last year, and making racist comments.

I don’t feel like visiting any far right sites right now, but I’m sure, if I did, I’d find some celebrating this young man’s moxie, some saying that he’s just a mentally ill kid, and still others suggesting that it was nothing more than a harmless little prank that us ‘snowflakes’ on the left are blowing all out of proportion. I think, however, that it points to a bigger problem in our society. And, with that, I’ll leave you with an excerpt from Republican Senator Jeff Flake’s speech from last week about the very real damage Donald Trump is doing to the fabric of our democratic society when he attacks America’s free and independent press.

…It is for that reason that I rise today, to talk about the truth, and its relationship to democracy. For without truth, and a principled fidelity to truth and to shared facts, Mr. President, our democracy will not last.

2017 was a year which saw the truth – objective, empirical, evidence-based truth — more battered and abused than any other in the history of our country, at the hands of the most powerful figure in our government. It was a year which saw the White House enshrine “alternative facts” into the American lexicon, as justification for what used to be known simply as good old-fashioned falsehoods. It was the year in which an unrelenting daily assault on the constitutionally-protected free press was launched by that same White House, an assault that is as unprecedented as it is unwarranted. “The enemy of the people,” was what the president of the United States called the free press in 2017.

Mr. President, it is a testament to the condition of our democracy that our own president uses words infamously spoken by Josef Stalin to describe his enemies. It bears noting that so fraught with malice was the phrase “enemy of the people,” that even Nikita Khrushchev forbade its use, telling the Soviet Communist Party that the phrase had been introduced by Stalin for the purpose of “annihilating such individuals” who disagreed with the supreme leader.

This alone should be a source of great shame for us in this body, especially for those of us in the president’s party. For they are shameful, repulsive statements. And, of course, the president has it precisely backward – despotism is the enemy of the people. The free press is the despot’s enemy, which makes the free press the guardian of democracy. When a figure in power reflexively calls any press that doesn’t suit him “fake news,” it is that person who should be the figure of suspicion, not the press.

I dare say that anyone who has the privilege and awesome responsibility to serve in this chamber knows that these reflexive slurs of “fake news” are dubious, at best. Those of us who travel overseas, especially to war zones and other troubled areas around the globe, encounter members of U.S. based media who risk their lives, and sometimes lose their lives, reporting on the truth. To dismiss their work as fake news is an affront to their commitment and their sacrifice.

According to the International Federation of Journalists, 80 journalists were killed in 2017, and a new report from the Committee to Protect Journalists documents that the number of journalists imprisoned around the world has reached 262, which is a new record. This total includes 21 reporters who are being held on “false news” charges.

Mr. President, so powerful is the presidency that the damage done by the sustained attack on the truth will not be confined to the president’s time in office. Here in America, we do not pay obeisance to the powerful – in fact, we question the powerful most ardently – to do so is our birthright and a requirement of our citizenship — and so, we know well that no matter how powerful, no president will ever have dominion over objective reality…

No longer can we compound attacks on truth with our silent acquiescence. No longer can we turn a blind eye or a deaf ear to these assaults on our institutions. And Mr. President, an American president who cannot take criticism – who must constantly deflect and distort and distract – who must find someone else to blame — is charting a very dangerous path. And a Congress that fails to act as a check on the president adds to the danger…

Flake, of course, has not taken the next step and called for the President to leave office. But at least he’s beginning to articulate the threat posed by Donald Trump, and I suppose that’s a good thing… One wonders what it will take at this point for anyone on the right to take that next step, though, and call for Trump to leave office. It didn’t happen when Trump, defending the Nazis marching in Charlottesville, noted that some of them were “fine” people. And it didn’t happen when he called predominantly black nations “shitholes.” What makes us think anything will be different the first time a reporter is shot down by someone yelling “fake news”? Seriously, would a mass shooting at CNN headquarters even make a difference at this point? Sadly, I’m thinking that it wouldn’t. And that terrifies me.

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229 Comments

  1. Posted January 23, 2018 at 10:30 pm | Permalink

    Coincidentally, I just happened across someone sharing a recent exchange from the Breitbart comments section… “Dead press tell no tales.”

  2. Posted January 23, 2018 at 10:31 pm | Permalink

    “…before he finishes his first two terms.”

    I just now caught that. Funny stuff.

  3. Lynne
    Posted January 23, 2018 at 11:29 pm | Permalink

    These are the same yahoos who were threatening civil war if Clinton won. They are too much of a minority for that. Also they are cowards. Expect them to adopt terrorist tactics as they have in the past but no real change will come from them. Heck, those guys are such losers that we wont even call them terrorist attacks!

    Yet this is why it is important for everyone who is NOT one of these guys to get out and vote in November for Democrats.

  4. John Galt
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 7:46 am | Permalink

    What you call a terrorist, I call a good, red blooded American patriot, standing up for his democratically elected president against the international media elite. Hail Trump!

  5. Meta
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 8:20 am | Permalink

    Griesemer is fond of both Trump and Hitler says former classmate.

    Chicago Tribute: “Michigan man accused of threatening to attack CNN identified with Hitler, former classmate says”

    The man who federal authorities say threatened to kill CNN employees had declared in high school that he identified with Adolf Hitler and suggested “the Holocaust was exaggerated,” according to a former classmate.

    That description of Brandon Griesemer’s behavior in high school emerged after the FBI accused him of placing menacing phone calls to CNN, describing the news organization as “fake news” and vowing to carry out a massacre at its Atlanta offices. The FBI also said in court documents that Griesemer made “disparaging remarks regarding Jewish individuals” during one call and, months before threatening CNN, called a Michigan mosque and “made derogatory comments relating to the mosque and Muslims.”

    The FBI’s depiction of the threats to CNN came as President Donald Trump, during his campaign and continuing in office, has waged a lengthy battle against the outlet, regularly labeling it and others he does not like as “fake news.” CNN has been among Trump’s most-consistent targets in the news media. He has tweeted critically about the organization more than two dozen times since taking office a year ago, including on Tuesday morning, when he tweeted about “Fake News CNN” even as many news outlets had picked up on the FBI’s allegation that Griesemer used the phrase while threatening violence.

    Anthony Luongo, who was a classmate of Griesemer’s in high school until both graduated last year, described him as a Trump supporter who “came in after the election and was very happy” and compared Griesemer’s reaction to that of a fan whose team had won a big game.

    Read more:
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-cnn-phone-threats-20180123-story.html

  6. Edward
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    His brother told Fox 2 that he’s a “stable individual” but it came out in the court hearing that he “has a history of substance abuse and mental health issues”.

    http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-news/brother-of-suspect-who-threatened-to-murder-cnn-staff-defends-him

  7. Citywatch
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    And there you have it. I wonder how this person Mr. Trump, a man I refuse to call “President”, who’s list of lies and felonies and misdemeanors is too long to detail here, has come to represent truth and the American way to people who deserve so much better. He is surrounded by hucksters and toadies and sychophants who professionally evade and reshape the truth as they do his bidding. Right now there is GOP Congressman Flake who speaks an eloquent and urgent truth to power. Will there be others from his party brave enough to break ranks and call out this dangerous man, or did Trump buy decent, but short sighted people off with a tax break and a promise of reelection?

  8. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 9:20 am | Permalink

    Nutjobs and fake nutjobs (you know it is true – we’ve covered that; it has to be considered) everywhere. Did you even notice when the one guy tried to assassinate a bunch of republican politicians last year and nearly succeeded/did succeed in wounding one badly?

  9. Max
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 9:54 am | Permalink

    Well, his neighbor says he’s a nice guy:

    https://www.freep.com/story/news/2018/01/23/novi-neighbors-surprised-nice-guy-charged-threatening-cnn/1059502001/

  10. Iron Lung
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 10:01 am | Permalink

    It is only a matter of time before someone kills a journalist, to which Trump will cheer, because he’s just that kind of guy.

  11. Iron Lung
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    “I’m smarter than you.”

    The mantra of Trump’s base.

  12. Iron Lung
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    Trump’s confused base will simply disregard this as the work of a “nutjob” without considering the greater significance of it.

    Trump has done irreparable damage to the free press worldwide.

  13. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    CIA press

  14. Jean Henry
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    Citywatch— representatives at Davos are busy licking Trump’s boots right now. All he has to do is make the right people Money and he can dodge accountability. Every presidential candidate runs on populist rhetoric they don’t back up with action. Trump is just the worst case scenario.

    HW- ‘we’ havent Covered it. You held forth with another transparently self serving crack pot theory and we mostly ignored you. Your ‘fake but job’ theory does not have to be considered. Neither do false flag conspiracy theories. If there’s a simple and reasonable explanation why would we consider the complex and less likely scenario? You’d have to be nuts to be fooled by conspiracy theories.

  15. Anonymous
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    “CIA press.” Please elaborate, HW.

  16. Jcp2
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 10:21 am | Permalink

    Interesting.

    http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20180124-the-enduring-appeal-of-conspiracy-theories

  17. Iron Lung
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    “CIA press”

    Oh, this is going to be funny.

  18. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    “Please elaborate, HW.”

    Congressional report from way back when

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird
    After the Watergate scandal in 1972–1974, the U.S. Congress became concerned over possible presidential abuse of the CIA. This concern reached its height when reporter Seymour Hersh published an expose of CIA domestic surveillance in 1975.[6] Congress authorized a series of Congressional investigations into Agency activities from 1975 to 1976. A wide range of CIA operations were examined in these investigations, including CIA ties with journalists and numerous private voluntary organizations. None of the resulting reports, however, refer to an Operation Mockingbird.

    The most extensive discussion of CIA relations with news media from these investigations is in the Church Committee’s final report, published in April 1976. The report covered CIA ties with both foreign and domestic news media.

    For foreign news media, the report concluded that:

    The CIA currently maintains a network of several hundred foreign individuals around the world who provide intelligence for the CIA and at times attempt to influence opinion through the use of covert propaganda. These individuals provide the CIA with direct access to a large number of newspapers and periodicals, scores of press services and news agencies, radio and television stations, commercial book publishers, and other foreign media outlets.[7]

    For domestic media, the report states:

    Approximately 50 of the [Agency] assets are individual American journalists or employees of U.S. media organizations. Of these, fewer than half are “accredited” by U.S. media organizations … The remaining individuals are non-accredited freelance contributors and media representatives abroad … More than a dozen United States news organizations and commercial publishing houses formerly provided cover for CIA agents abroad. A few of these organizations were unaware that they provided this cover.[7]

  19. Sad
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    Wobblie did say NPR is a tool of government disinformation.

  20. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    I call it the Rockefeller Propaganda Network – RPN.

  21. Iron Lung
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    lol

    Well, if the CIA is involved, they are doing a shitty job, given the wide range of media outlets and the various political stances of each of them.

  22. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    It never seemed to you like all the major papers and channels get the same talking points each day? Never seemed like there were certain newsworthy items that got buried? That’s interesting. I don’t know what it would be like to have not noticed that a long, long time ago.

  23. Iron Lung
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 10:53 am | Permalink

    What, should they all be talking about different things?

    lol

  24. Sad
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 10:55 am | Permalink

    Most of us thought they were all talking about the same thing because that was the “news” , it was only Trumps victory that illustrated how fake that news can be. Remember that, he won’t win the primaries, he won’t win the election, the economy will tank if he does win. I don’t think Trump is the answer but he cracked it open for someone in the future.

    Hopefully a democrat who isn’t afraid to be unrealistic.

  25. Iron Lung
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 10:57 am | Permalink

    There are so many media outlets and types of media now, that it is impossible to generalize what the “media” even is.

    Unless you’re 70 years old, and then you think there’s still only 3 networks and CNN is brand new.

  26. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    Anderson Cooper is one of the top broadcasters, right?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anderson_Cooper

    “During college, Cooper spent two summers as an intern at the Central Intelligence Agency. Although he has no formal journalistic education, he opted to pursue a career in journalism rather than stay with the agency after school,[13][14] having been a self-proclaimed “news junkie since [he] was in utero.”[15] After his first correspondence work in the early 1990s, he took a break from reporting and lived in Vietnam for a year, during which time he studied the Vietnamese language at Vietnam National University, Hanoi.[16]”

  27. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    “What, should they all be talking about different things?”

    I dunno, cuz there supposed to be journalists, not mouthpieces? I mean it’s lockstep with similar phrasing and everything a lot of times.

  28. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    they’re

  29. Sad
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    Even the Pope is coming out against fake news.

    Where do you get your news IL?

  30. Sad
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 11:11 am | Permalink

    Besides MM.com

  31. Iron Lung
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 11:11 am | Permalink

    Yes, in fact, people do attend press conferences and read from press releases.

    But while FOX, CNN, MSNBC, NPR, McClatchy, Bloomberg, the New York Times and Alex Jones all report on the same things, the commentary is different.

    It is impossible to say that the reporting on those media outlets is the same.

  32. Lynne
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 11:13 am | Permalink

    Re: ” I don’t think Trump is the answer but he cracked it open for someone in the future.”

    This is my fear. What is saving us now is Trump’s utter incompetence and also that he is so self serving. I fear someone more sure of his sexist, racist, ableist, anti poor folk, ideology who is smart and competent. I fear Democrats who aren’t afraid of being unrealistic too because pie in the sky looks like broken promises and a loss of trust in the end.

  33. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 11:16 am | Permalink

    “There are so many media outlets and types of media now, that it is impossible to generalize what the “media” even is.
    Unless you’re 70 years old, and then you think there’s still only 3 networks and CNN is brand new.”

    I already contextualized CIA media as big media. The web is a whole other thing they have to contend with. John Kerry said giving people the internet was the biggest mistake they made because it makes governance harder.

  34. Sad
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    You can’t live in fear Lynne. Your afaraid of Republicans and Democrats?

  35. Iron Lung
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    “big media”

    Who even watches television news anymore besides old people?

  36. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    Yeah baby! Hang in through the silly stuff (don’t fool yourself into thinking the lighthearted story at the end has no purpose – think about it) to see GWB grilled about it.

  37. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    It’s going down due to the web for sure. Teevee hasn’t kicked the bucket yet though. Pretty big influence still.

  38. wobblie
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 11:37 am | Permalink

    Don’t worry. With the end of Net neutrality, and the proliferation of algorithms that eliminate or marginalize independent news sources, they will get the proliferation of “fake news” under control. We will be back to having a single dominate news culture. Preferably one established by the NY Times (sarcasm).

  39. Sad
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    Be careful Wobblie, before you know it you may be….Sad!

  40. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    Missing clip from yeah baby post. Bush payments to journalists. Of course dad would be a good resource on how to do that being a major spook and the president both.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kip2w-DceV0

  41. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    Sen Frank Church (D) in 1975 including Senate testimony from investigation

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ED63A_hcd0

  42. Anonymous
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    Anderson Cooper’s mom was a socialite model (Gloria Vanderbilt) who made jeans. He should have to do the same.

  43. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

    But he is so good at being a journalist with CIA training.

  44. Iron Lung
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

    So what? In 2018, there are a million media outlets now including this blog.

    Just watch something else. Which is part of the problem, people live in echo chambers now because they have so much to choose from.

    No one cares about Anderson Cooper. Do you really think that if Anderson Cooper weren’t there, things would be at all different?

  45. Iron Lung
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

    TV is meaningless now. Only old people like Trump himself watch that crap.

    Look at the commercials. It’s all for junk that old people buy.

  46. Sad
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

    Plus it’s the youth that run the country. Hey wait……

  47. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

    “So what? In 2018, there are a million media outlets now including this blog.
    Just watch something else. Which is part of the problem, people live in echo chambers now because they have so much to choose from.
    No one cares about Anderson Cooper. Do you really think that if Anderson Cooper weren’t there, things would be at all different?”

    How many of those million outlets make the kind of money AC makes? How many have the reach? Therefore it makes no sense to be like “nobody cares – ihhh!”

  48. Iron Lung
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

    Soon these old people will be dead and it will be a new landscape.

    All these young right wingers aren’t the way they are because of FOX News.

  49. nick
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

    if anyone is interested in media analysis, how PR works, how the government influences these things etc. i highly recommend a podcast called Citations Needed:
    https://citationsneeded.libsyn.com/
    episodes 18 and 22 seem relevant to some of the topics brought up on this site.

    the pod pairs perfectly with the book Manufacturing Consent. though the content of MC is dated it is still highly relevant.

  50. Lynne
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

    Re: “You can’t live in fear Lynne. Your afaraid of Republicans and Democrats?”

    I am afraid that GOP will come up with a white nationalist candidate that is competent.

    I am afraid that the Dems will elect someone who isn’t realistic and who will inevitably disappoint and thus set back left wing causes a lot. I totally get it how easy it is to respond to promises without actually looking into how feasible they are. Like others I was fooled by Bernie Sanders and voted for him in the primary. There are still people who actually consider him a viable candidate in 2010. I just hope the establishment democrats (older women and POC) keep things under control and nominate someone whose promises are realistic and possible.

    I mean, I don’t entirely blame Sanders for this but when he made promises, I noticed he put a little footnote on them. It was all “if we have a political revolution then we can have [whatever thing he was promising]” And that isn’t a lie. IF we can have a political revolution (ie. people on the left get out and vote), we can have single payer, free college tuition, a UBI, whatever! Somehow though, people either didn’t hear that part or they didn’t understand that the political revolution is voting and not demonstrations and other forms of public protest.

    The short answer is that I am afraid that the GOP will nominate someone competent and I am equally afraid that the Dems will nominate someone who isn’t.

  51. Iron Lung
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

    Again, I think in 2018, people need to ask how much influence traditional media really has anymore.

    Is this a good thing? A bad thing? People are hoping to point to some nefarious group in Washington using the CIA to wield its influence with FOX News or CNN, but the reality is that this current batshit political climate might just have emerged on it’s own.

    In general, people develop their views on incomplete or incorrect information, but I am not so condescending to believe that people don’t come to their view points in opposition to what they already believe.

    The current media climate, where there are so many media outlets, is that people don’t know what to believe anymore. Any idiot can be a media outlet now, Mark Maynard being one of them. The overload of information and the limited brain power we have to parse it all out, leads people to seek out simple explanations for complex issues, which is exactly what people like Alex Jones and Sean Hannity offer and liberal outlets like the Young Turks.

    The sheer amount of information now compromises people’s ability to make informed decisions about things and hijacks their ability to think critically, but is that the CIA?

    No, I think this is just what we have done to ourselves, and maybe we deserve whatever comes of it (like the current climate of toxic populism.)

  52. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

    Just use your own mind to analyze each bit of data and store it away for future access. It doesn’t matter what the source is. Even the CIA could tell the truth one time. Agents or assets in the truth community could spread disinfo. A lot of people are convinced AJ is one. Who knows? I don’t worry about that. I just observe everything I can and analyze it the best I can. You can learn something from deciphering what kind of disinfo is being put out or perhaps most importantly what is not being said at all. Don’t take anything at face value. Always question.

  53. Jean Henry
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 2:44 pm | Permalink

    I’ll wait for you to apply that same scrutiny to Trump, HW…

  54. Jean Henry
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 2:45 pm | Permalink

    “truth community???” Care to elaborate?

  55. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    I don’t believe in Trump 100%. He could be there to wipe out the NWO and trap us into something worse. I doubt that though and I am taking my chances. Remember I was undecided until the last day. I had to turn over the claims against him with extreme scrutiny to come to a decision.

  56. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    Truth community. You know, people who are interested in the truth behind the lies. 9-11 made it grow more than any single event. I’m sure you scoff at “9-11 conspiracy theorists”. That doesn’t change the status of all the unanswered questions about it. That’s all that matters – the facts surrounding 9-11 compared to what the government/media has said.

  57. Iron Lung
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    “Truth community.”

    A euphemism for “conspiracy theorists.”

  58. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

    Congratulations! You have bought into CIA propaganda without even knowing it.

    https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/08/24/the-term-conspiracy-theory-was-invented-by-the-cia-in-order-to-prevent-disbelief-of-official-government-stories/

    “In 2013 Professor Lance Dehaven-Smith in a peer-reviewed book published by the University of Texas Press showed that the term “conspiracy theory” was developed by the CIA as a means of undercutting critics of the Warren Commission’s report that President Kennedy was killed by Oswald. The use of this term was heavily promoted in the media by the CIA.

    It is ironic that the American left is a major enforcer of the CIA’s strategy to shut up skeptics by branding them conspiracy theorists.”

  59. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    Sounds good. Try getting out of your own echo chamber and dig in to what you disbelieve. If your reasoning stands up against it then that’s good. You’ll have more ammo to use against someone like me. If you can’t find any good way to debunk it then you have bettered yourself for learning something.

    https://www.amazon.com/Conspiracy-Theory-America-Discovering/dp/0292757697/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1471971025&sr=1-1&keywords=Conspiracy+Theory+in+America

    “Ever since the Warren Commission concluded that a lone gunman assassinated President John F. Kennedy, people who doubt that finding have been widely dismissed as conspiracy theorists, despite credible evidence that right-wing elements in the CIA, FBI, and Secret Service—and possibly even senior government officials—were also involved. Why has suspicion of criminal wrongdoing at the highest levels of government been rejected out-of-hand as paranoid thinking akin to superstition?

    Conspiracy Theory in America investigates how the Founders’ hard-nosed realism about the likelihood of elite political misconduct—articulated in the Declaration of Independence—has been replaced by today’s blanket condemnation of conspiracy beliefs as ludicrous by definition. Lance deHaven-Smith reveals that the term “conspiracy theory” entered the American lexicon of political speech to deflect criticism of the Warren Commission and traces it back to a CIA propaganda campaign to discredit doubters of the commission’s report. He asks tough questions and connects the dots among five decades’ worth of suspicious events, including the assassinations of John and Robert Kennedy, the attempted assassinations of George Wallace and Ronald Reagan, the crimes of Watergate, the Iran-Contra arms-for-hostages deal, the disputed presidential elections of 2000 and 2004, the major defense failure of 9/11, and the subsequent anthrax letter attacks.

    Sure to spark intense debate about the truthfulness and trustworthiness of our government, Conspiracy Theory in America offers a powerful reminder that a suspicious, even radically suspicious, attitude toward government is crucial to maintaining our democracy.”

  60. nick
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    “Again, I think in 2018, people need to ask how much influence traditional media really has anymore.”

    from 2012 but i’m sure things have vastly improved since then. /s
    http://www.businessinsider.com/these-6-corporations-control-90-of-the-media-in-america-2012-6

  61. Sad
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

    Is the interest in President Trumps collusion with the Russians a conspiracy theory?

  62. wobblie
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

    Il you have lived out of the country for too long. Most people here still get there information about the world from Network news (the proverbial MSM). The number of people who listen to the Young Turks, (100,000 of thousands or Alec Jones (a million maybe) vs. Fox or NBC is relatively small.

    Independent media has been replacing what had once been the independent Press. As no one advertises in newspapers any more, it is only through independent web sites that you can find anything other than the dominate paradigm.

    The vast majority of people do not use the internet to access independent media outlets, they are E-baying, watching Porn, or engaging in social media. Facebook and others are engaging in algorithm censorship so that fewer and fewer folks will even know of independent web sites.

    The control of information is key to controlling what people think. Watch how Congress ends up doing nothing about Net neutrality.

  63. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    A frame job to set up a coup is what it is. That is being exposed more every day now. High officials in the FBI are in mega trouble for conspiring against Trump. The Mueller investigation is tainted by FBI agents meeting in secret to plan it. The whole thing is a sham like I said way back then. The FISA document will be the final nail.

  64. wobblie
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

    HW, The flip side of course is that Sessions is guilty of obstruction of justice and he rolls on Trump.

  65. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    Wanna bet?

  66. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    Did I mention it goes up to the top of the Obama administration? Illegal spying on a US presidential candidate to interfere with an election.

  67. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

    Flynn will flip, Manafort will squeal, Papadopolous was wired, Sessions will roll…How’s all that been working out for you so far?

  68. Alice Krum
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

    Pure Michigan

  69. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

    I hear the Dems have written their own memo to counter the FISA memo. If the FISA memo gets released they will release their own to set the record straight. Should be some good stuff!

  70. Iron lung
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

    Obviously noone gives a shit about the “fisa memo.”

    So two days ago

  71. Jean Henry
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 8:49 pm | Permalink

    HW— only a fool makes proclamations about the status of an ongoing, multi-pronged FBI investigation. There’s a lot of political noise from both sides. Not sure why you imagine anyone knows what’s up.
    My bet: if there was more than spin in the memo, someone would have released it to Wikileaks and pocketed the reward by now. Maybe someone did and Wikileaks didn’t release it.
    Nothing to see here, move along.

    It’s one thing to say the Russia investigation is overblown and political theatre. It’s another to say that and then offer up an even more far fetched alternative conspiracy theory.

  72. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

    I’m talking about facts and making predictions based on them. If I turn out to be correct then it won’t be so foolish, will it? MM said I was what? Unsophisticated? Because I didn’t understand the nature of investigators skilled in flipping little fish to get big fish. Well I haven’t seen the flipping yet. Trump is still here and from where I sit the investigation looks to be losing steam. The FISA memo sounds explosive. What’s known by the public already about FBI officials’ behavior demonstrates conspiracy I would say.

  73. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 9:48 pm | Permalink

    There you go using that CIA terminology – conspiracy theory. Conspiracy is a real thing. You can get charged with it. MM was cagey enough not to bet me on the outcome of the Mueller probe. Want to bet against people being charged in association with IG Horowitz’s investigation, which includes the source material for the FISA memo and much more? If you are wrong you have to change your board name to whatever I want for six months. If I am wrong I’ll change mine.

    Trump says he is looking forward to an interview with Mueller. He wants to do it if his lawyers approve.

  74. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 10:09 pm | Permalink

    I won’t choose anything vulgar or anything like that for you so don’t worry about that!

  75. stupid hick
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 10:10 pm | Permalink

    “Well I haven’t seen the flipping yet. Trump is still here and from where I sit the investigation looks to be losing steam.”

    Gee, if only we had some point of reference to make an informed guess about how long an FBI obstruction of justice investigation might take. Say, I wonder how much time elapsed between Nixon’s attempt to shut down the FBI’s Watergate investigation and Nixon’s resignation?

    Or another possible point of reference, I wonder how long it was between the indictment of Tom Delay’s associates Jim Ellis and John Colyandro, for illegal campaign finance activities, and Delay’s resignation from the House? Then how long was it between his resignation and conviction for money laundering?

    If only there were some comparable precedents we might be able to use estimate how far along we are in Trump’s investigation! Can someone please find some answers for HW, so he might be able to make some good fact-based observations about how far along we are in Trump’s investigation?

  76. Jean Henry
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 10:21 pm | Permalink

    HW really wants people to play with him.

  77. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 10:23 pm | Permalink

    Comey is corrupt. Comey obstructed justice. He conspired with others at the FBI to exonerate Hilary before her investigation was done and that is just one thing they did.

  78. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 10:28 pm | Permalink

    Lights Out

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIQhqWeDwMo

  79. stupid hick
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 10:36 pm | Permalink

    Lights Out

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsX2Q3M8vMo

  80. Sad
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 6:45 am | Permalink

    Starting today –

    Donald Does Davos!

    Too bad Stormy can’t be on his arm.

  81. DonLemon by proxy
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    DonLemon: There’s “nothing random” about the arrest of a Michigan man who threatened to kill CNN employees. “This is what happens when the President of the United States repeatedly attacks members of the press simply for reporting facts he does not like”

    https://twitter.com/CNNTonight/status/956023442553307137

  82. Iron Lung
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    “From where I sit the investigation looks to be losing steam.”

    lol

  83. Iron Lung
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    The Mr. Warlord appears to be under the impression that a federal investigation is like a football game.

  84. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    Has anyone EVER heard of an investigation with the problems this one currently has? Do you have any idea what I am talking about? No/No

  85. Iron Lung
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    The Mr. Warlord appears obsessed with the “facts” but unwilling (or unable) to read history, outside of continually referring to an unaired video from more than 30 years ago, and an article about the CIA from 1975.

  86. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    What problems HW? This investigation in fact feels a lot like Watergate, Iran Contra etc etc. In every case, there were political red herrings and obstructions thrown out by opposition. In my home, growing up, we talked about watergate as it evolved, much as people talk about the Russia investigations now. This is an FBI investigation. How much info do you expect to be made available about an ongoing FBI investigation? I really have no idea what you are talking about. As stupid hick pointed out, and as I have before, we know how long these things take– a few years. There is nothing very out of the ordinary about this one except the gravity of the suspicious activity.

  87. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    My favorite part about this thread is HW’s conspiracy theory about the word conspiracy theory.
    Just another nefarious CIA plot to hide the real truth!

    I’m sorry to make you Sad, Sad, but it’s impossible not to laugh. HW is a comic genius.

  88. Sad
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 10:06 am | Permalink

    I feel vindicated. After all what we need most now is a good laugh.

  89. Sad
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    And we don’t need to worry about our dear President because there is a McDonalds in Davos.

  90. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    It is like Watergate but it is Obama/FBI/DOJ who are in trouble. The reactions by people who have seen the FISA memo tell it all. Horowitz’s investigation is going to be devastating to the collusion investigation. “Bigger than Watergate” is what one congressman said about the four page memo. Sara Carter, who broke the story on FISA abuse a year ago said if the memo is a bullet it is one of ten bullets. I’m buying it. You’re not? You are feigning confidence. Otherwise you would bet me on it.

  91. Sad
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 10:24 am | Permalink

    Make a bet, and whoever loses has to finance MMs remake of Hall & Oates – She’s Gone!

  92. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    I’m the Inspector Generalll

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HLEdf3RB-k

  93. Sad
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    Mic drop HW! That’s means you get to walk away and don’t need to say anything more! HW for the win!

  94. nick
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 10:35 am | Permalink

    is this conspiracy theory the source of all these bat shit posts on here?

    http://nymag.com/selectall/2017/12/qanon-4chan-the-storm-conspiracy-explained.html

  95. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    It’s going public now. The release of the FISA memo is going to cause shock waves throughout the world. When that comes out everyone is going to being to understand what the swamp really is.

  96. wobblie
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 10:48 am | Permalink

    HW, a ” Patriot’s” take on why waiting on Horowitz’s report is a fools errand.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JffxmapYiIc

  97. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    Who is it? I didn’t catch the name.

  98. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    *begin* to understand

  99. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 11:03 am | Permalink

    “I’m buying it. You’re not? You are feigning confidence. Otherwise you would bet me on it.”
    It’s true. I’m quaking in my boots.
    But I have feigned knowing nothing. I’m happy to wait this out and have made no pronouncements, just pointed to how these things have gone historically, whether resulting in high level convictions or not.

    Are you actually in middle school, HW? I’ve never encountered a grown man who wasn’t a drunk or an abuser who challenges and asserts and stomps around in the way you do. You are the silver backed gorilla of MM trolls, pounding your puffed up chest and throwing feces.

  100. Iron Lung
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    “The release of the FISA memo is going to cause shock waves throughout the world.”

    lol

  101. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    “stupid hick
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 10:36 pm | Permalink
    Lights Out
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsX2Q3M8vMo

    FULSOME Hardcore repast

  102. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    Why lol at something you are ignorant about? From what a bunch of Representatives have said it is not hard to see. The “biggest scandal in modern American history” not seismic enough? Oookay there.

  103. maryd
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 11:16 am | Permalink

    The only scandal we have right now is the fact that the republicans support the little man in the whitehouse. It is a hoot to read a few of your messages hw, but sorry wackadoodle doesn’t register with me.

  104. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    “palace coup”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dazag6Fd8ZA

  105. Iron Lung
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 11:26 am | Permalink

    Angry Samoans were just ok. Not a great band. Mostly just bar punk.

  106. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    Ah, maryd. Another Occasional Quipper. Eeevery so often you transform from a garden gnome into a real squeaking lil troublemaker hahaha!!!

  107. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

    Lionel on the FBI/DOJ issues. Funny guy and usually insightful. Listening now.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRjGvdOMSKg

  108. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

    HW– The house of representatives is known to be full of a lot of unqualified, ideological nutbags. Your rhetorical appeals to authority– House GOP, Horowitz, Alex Jones etc, and yourself– are not impressive or persuasive.

  109. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    Every onceand a while I actually click on one of your links. They are completely ridiculous. In that Hannity one: mention of Benghazi, Hillary rigging the election, etc etc. To this panel, the FISA memo is as alarming as those revelations. This may explain why those of us who were not impressed or alarmed by past conspiracy theories de-bunked are less than in awe of what is purportedly to come. Your ‘evidence’ is an self-reinforcing, ideological circle jerk.

  110. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    OMG That Lionel guy. You have to be kidding me. Here’s the thing. Some guy speaking with authoritative certainty about speculative events is NOT impressive to most people. Throwing in some rando facts about tangentially (or not) related subjects does not add to the legitimacy of their account for any but the willing fools. Snake oil salesman. (Alex Jones is literally that, as he funds his program by selling fraudulent products aimed at the insecure and fearful) Clearly you have taken notes. Will you be releasing HW virility products soon? You speak from authority you have not earned and so does almost every link you provide.

  111. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    I like bar punk.

  112. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

    I like to read Jean’s posts in a helium voice. Funny shit!

  113. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

    Busted

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SSjvcK5QPs

  114. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

    Wtf is Bar Punk? Oh, I’m gonna go to the Punk bar and here some good Bar Punk bands! Jeff Dahl was in the Angry Samoans and some of his shit is bad as fuck.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRlALLTIdVI

  115. Sad
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

    Lionel Nation, please.

    I recently (due to his death) discovered a great radio man named Joe Frank. His work contains a lot of feelings reminiscent of the tone here. Take a break from politics and live!

  116. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    *hear*

    Rockin’ too hard to spel gud

  117. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

    HW– I actually have a helium voice. Super squeaky and pitchy. And I giggle a lot. And get coy. Bubbly. Sometimes I play with my hair. So you are right on track.

  118. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

    It’s a desperate, demented voice. Not at all like that.

  119. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

    Excellent. Your projections are quite interesting.

  120. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    It’s not a projection. It’s just a funny voice I use to mock people like you once in a while. You project like it makes you money. Actually read your own posts and read mine. I hardly talk ABOUT you at all.

  121. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

    Don’t know why you are so threatened by me. I’m really nice. I’ll defend myself but I don’t think that means I’m some kind of marauding ape. I’d be sweet as pie if people were nicer to me. When I do respond it’s more witty than nasty compared to what you say.

  122. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    “But I have feigned knowing nothing. I’m happy to wait this out and have made no pronouncements, just pointed to how these things have gone historically, whether resulting in high level convictions or not.”

    Yes you have about a thousand times over by talking mega trash about me personally for talking about things that you I guess hate. So if I’m a conspiracy theorist you are for sure an anti-conspiracy theorist. You don’t want to take a friendly wager on something you are so sure about? You are so sure you are willing to say alllll those nasty things so it should be a no-brainer. You could make me LEAVE for SIX WHOLE MONTHS if your name was embarrassing enough…think of all the relief that would provide for all the SJW’s for all that time…no HW…HW currently does not exist…imagine!!!

  123. Iron Lung
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    Are you ok?

  124. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

    I’m more than okay. Seems like you ought to worry about if you are okay yourself.

  125. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    You get the helium treatment too. Most of the time it’s just a little sample though: “lol”.

  126. Iron Lung
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    The mr. Warlord seems a bit more unhinged than usual today.

  127. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    Not unhinged but reactive. Jean is going off the deep end if anyone. Look at her posts. If you think it’s unhinged to use funny voices or make faces or something you would think I am crazy as shit. It’s just fun to goof around sometimes I think. Remember how to have fun at all?

  128. Iron Lung
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

    On an online text based forum, how can one tell if someone is using “funny voices” or “making faces?”

    Are you ok?

  129. Iron Lung
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

    The mr. Warlord fights enemies that can’t be seen.

  130. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    I said a “desperate, demented…helium voice” in the text so I don’t know what more you are looking for. See it’s like you have this little algorithm that automatically misunderstands if at all possible. Why is that? It’s weird.

  131. Iron Lung
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    Why would you project a particular voice on others?

    Very strange.

  132. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

    Because it’s fun. Look at her posts. They are insane but you sit there and troll me. How could you not want to mock hilariously?

    “OMG That Lionel guy. You have to be kidding me. Here’s the thing. Some guy speaking with authoritative certainty about speculative events is NOT impressive to most people. Throwing in some rando facts about tangentially (or not) related subjects does not add to the legitimacy of their account for any but the willing fools. Snake oil salesman. (Alex Jones is literally that, as he funds his program by selling fraudulent products aimed at the insecure and fearful) Clearly you have taken notes. Will you be releasing HW virility products soon? You speak from authority you have not earned and so does almost every link you provide.”

  133. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

    You have to do it fast too. You know you want to haha!

  134. Iron Lung
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

    Alex Jones does, in fact, fund his program by selling fraudulent products at the insecure and fearful.

  135. Iron Lung
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    to

  136. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

    Why are they fraudulent? That other part is an opinion, not a fact. This is kind of a pointless tactic to take since I don’t identify with AJ or anything.

  137. Iron Lung
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    It is a fact that the many of the dietary supplements sold on his programs and website do not do the things they are purported to do, but then the things they purport to do often have no basis in science (“detox” for example.) His products are largely sourced from the “Global Healing Center,” which, if you look at their site, is an obvious sham.

    He sells snake oil to the fearful and insecure so that he can peddle fantasies to the fearful and insecure.

    To be clear, Whole Foods also sells the same snake oil so it’s either Alex Jones style crazy or Whole Foods style crazy. You can pick your poison.

  138. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    What is in it?

  139. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    I see there is a colon cleanse with:

    Ingredients: Organic Cinnamon, Organic Ground Chia, Organic Milk Thistle, Organic Psyllium Husks, Organic Marshmallow root, Human Grade Bentonite Clay, Cascara Sagrada, Apple Pectin, Organic Whole Chia, Organic Ginger, Activated Charcoal.

    Seems pretty reasonable. Don’t know what Cascara Sagrada is but I bet it is not bad. Psyllium husk definitely works to do what the product is supposed to. You don’t believe in food-based supplements?

  140. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

    More clearly: you disbelieve in them?

  141. Iron Lung
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

    Well, what exactly is a “colon cleanse?” There is no scientific basis for what exactly that’s supposed to mean, so they can basically package whatever shit is laying around and call it whatever they want.

    What does “seems reasonable” mean? “Reasonable” to do what, exactly? Take people’s money and have them eat a bag of spices? Sometimes in poisonous doses? I guess if that’s your goal, it could be seen as “reasonable.”

    Supplements (what exactly are they “supplementing?” We don’t eat enough cinnamon?) are a massive scam. Worse than supplements are “homeopathic remedies.” At least this has cinnamon in it. Homeopathic products are often simply water.

  142. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

    It makes you poop! There’s that algorithm again.

  143. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

    HW– Reactive = unhinged. (duh)
    PS I’m having fun. Why else would I engage you?

    https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/activated-charcoal-the-latest-detox-fad-in-an-obsessive-food-culture/

  144. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    I poop without a colon cleanse.

  145. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/08/alex-jones-infowars-supplements-are-overpriced-mundane-vitamins-watered-down/

  146. Iron Lung
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    I don’t need cinnamon and chia seeds to defecate.

    Actually, no one does.

  147. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

    I don’t understand your kind of fun. Talking like that to someone? Yuck.

    At least the little bit of activated charcoal won’t hurt. There are a lot of things with no scientific evidence yet that do work. What company is going to invest their dollars to research that?

  148. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    I enjoy spices.
    Quite a bit.
    I don’t ascribe to them any power but flavor.
    The only proper use for ingested charcoal is for overdoses. It simply creates malabsorption.
    If you are ingesting bodily toxins at the time you are cleansing with activated charcoal, it might prove useful, but not in the quantity AJ supplies.

    Supplements are an equal opportunity rip-off.

    When I had Rubella as a child, a PA Dutch faith healer gave me nasty tea and spoke in tongues over me while I was running a high fever. The room was spinning. It was really cool. It did not cure me however.

  149. Sad
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    JOE FRANK: There was a time when I danced on a street corner dressed as a chicken. My job was to draw attention to a furniture store down the block. One evening, when my shift was over, still wearing my chicken outfit, I walked into a bar across the street. I’d ordered a Bombay martini straight up, olives on the side.

    [BROOKE LAUGHS]

    A prostitute sat down next to me. She was young, willowy, had a faraway look in her eyes. Her name was Meredith. We talked about our careers, the importance of networking, setting goals, focus.

    [ABUMRAD AND BROOKE LAUGHING]

    Then I excused myself, walked into the men’s room, entered a stall and sat down on the toilet and had a bowel movement that broke in two.

    [LAUGHTER]

    And half of it was still hanging out of me, so I had to wipe myself 50 times, repeatedly checking to see if there was more left on the toilet paper.

    [ABUMRAD AND BROOKE LAUGHING]

    And written on the wall were the words, “Know that someone is suffering anonymously and unknown and that by the time you read this, I’ll be dead.”

  150. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    “What company is going to invest their dollars to research that?” https://www.health.harvard.edu/mental-health/the-power-of-the-placebo-effect

  151. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    Then don’t buy it. How do you think you can say no one needs supplements for constipation? It’s ridiculous.

  152. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

    “The only proper use for ingested charcoal is for overdoses. It simply creates malabsorption.”

    How do you know?

  153. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

    ““What company is going to invest their dollars to research that?” https://www.health.harvard.edu/mental-health/the-power-of-the-placebo-effect

    Don’t see how that answers the question. My point is it’s not the kind of thing research money flows to because it is so cheap.

  154. Iron Lung
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    “There are a lot of things with no scientific evidence yet that do work. What company is going to invest their dollars to research that?”

    There is ample research on various plants and their physiological effects.

    Again, what is a “colon cleanse?” What is “detoxification?” There is no scientific basis for this.

    These are meaningless words that the supplement industry uses to sell products. In essences, they are creating pathologies (“build up of toxins”) that don’t exist and offering medicines to treat them.

  155. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    So you think everything has been discovered? There are countless species we don’t even know. You keep asking the same question? Wasn’t it dumb enough the first time? Then you got a straight answer but you are back at it.

  156. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

    A colon cleanse is when you finally pull your head out of your ass. That’s what it means for you.

  157. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

    Bored

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPy9jIs-adI

  158. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

    “Why are they fraudulent? That other part is an opinion, not a fact.”–HW
    HW believes he deals in evidence and facts, and the rest of us deal in opinions. There is in fact abundant evidence that vulnerability to fake supplements is determined by insecurity and fear. Please note that the best selling supplements promise improved sexual function, weight loss, and/or anti-aging properties.

    We are all insecure and fearful about some things. The market for fraud, as this past election proved, is abundant.

  159. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 5:35 pm | Permalink

    HW believes in evidence, but lacking any, will resort to saying, basically, that anything is possible. In fact, many things are not possible.

  160. Iron Lung
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

    “So you think everything has been discovered?”

    No, everything has not, but you are missing the point.

    You claim that you are highly intelligent, yet miss this very simple point.

    Makers of supplements create non-existent pathologies (“build up of toxins”) and then sell you drugs to treat them. In English, that’s what we call a scam.

  161. EOS
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    I drank a colon cleanse before the doctors did a colonoscopy. It worked – clean as a whistle. The evidence? They sent me home with pictures. From one end to the other.

  162. Lynne
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

    I always wonder about the ethics of convincing people that something they are taking for an ailment has been proven not to work but is working for that person, certainly due to placebo effect. I mean the placebo effect works because of people’s beliefs so would making them doubt their belief be ethical if it causes them to lose the benefit of a placebo effect?

  163. Iron Lung
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    What you refer to is bowel cleansing, getting rid of solid material within the colon so that the procedure can be performed.

    The “colon cleanse” referred to on herbal supplement sites is the cleansing of the intestinal tract of nonspecific “toxins.”

    Contextually, it is very different.

  164. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    You lack evidence, Jean. You have emotion-based attacks. I never claimed to even know what is in Infowars products. You made the claim. You back it up.

    Lung, show me the detoxifier product you are talking about. From Infowars.

  165. EOS
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

    Absolutely no chance it was a placebo effect. Have you ever needed to do a bowel prep for a procedure? Leaves no doubt about its effectiveness.

  166. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

    EOS– Did the doctors suggest your colon cleanse would offer any health benefits?

    In fact, what you consumed was a simple laxative. The procedure is disruptive of the gut micro-biome (one of those areas not yet adequately understood) but it reconstitutes in 2-4 weeks. Unless one repeats the process regularly… Abuse of laxative is a common eating disorder.

    “Health Consequences of Laxative Abuse:
    Disturbance of electrolyte and mineral balances. Sodium, potassium, magnesium, and phosphorus are electrolytes and minerals that are present in very specific amounts necessary for proper functioning of the nerves and muscles, including those of the colon and heart. Upsetting this delicate balance can cause improper functioning of these vital organs.
    Severe dehydration may cause tremors, weakness, blurry vision, fainting, kidney damage, and, in extreme cases, death. Dehydration often requires medical treatment.
    Laxative dependency occurs when the colon stops reacting to usual doses of laxatives so that larger and larger amounts of laxatives may be needed to produce bowel movements.
    Internal organ damage may result, including stretched or “lazy” colon, colon infection, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, and, rarely, liver damage. Chronic laxative abuse may contribute to risk of colon cancer.”

  167. EOS
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

    The prep was far worse than the procedure. I was under anesthesia and didn’t feel a thing. But there is absolutely no chance that I’m going to become addicted to the prep.

  168. Iron Lung
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

    “Lung, show me the detoxifier product you are talking about. From Infowars.”

    You can go to site, Jones sells products sourced from this company:

    https://www.globalhealingcenter.com/cleansing.html

  169. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 5:58 pm | Permalink

    Lynne– I recently shepherded a friend through colon cancer. She was very fond of alternative treatments she could ill afford. Some made her visibly more ill, but she believed they were curing her. Others (mostly involving relaxation and touch) produced an impressive sense of relief from her constant pain and anxiety. I very much believe that adults have a right to direct their own path through cancer treatment, especially when nothing much is available to them medically. I quite liked some of her ‘healing practitioners.” On the other hand, when I think of the quacks who caused her more pain at great expense, I have, well, bad thoughts. She dies, of course.

    Ethics are complicated. Quackery is worth exposing. True believers may at least hear the risks, if their are any, and then they can decide is hop is worth the cost.

    I regularly stand behind people of little means buying stacks of lottery tickets. I feel only compassion. One can see their burden lift. However momentarily. I would never stop them. And I don’t blame them. Still, I think the world would be much improved without lotteries.

  170. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 6:00 pm | Permalink

    EOS– Would you feel upset if your Doctor had prescribed a $30 product for your colonoscopy prep instead of a $5 prescription? What about if he claimed health benefits from the ‘treatment?”

  171. Iron Lung
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

    I had an acquaintance whose wife was dying of colon cancer. He read on the internet that marijuana was an effective treatment for cancer and refused to let her go to the hospital, choosing to feed her marijuana instead.

    Of course, she quickly died a horrible death.

  172. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

    Alright, what’s one of Infowars’ products that is fraudulent there?

  173. Iron Lung
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

    She might have died anyway, who knows, but the point is that this person was not a medical professional and did not have the knowledge or the qualifications to make health decisions for another person.

    He read on the internet that marijuana cures cancer and that was enough for him. The local marijuana dealers were happy to encourage his thinking because as she became more and more ill, he bought more and more marijuana from them.

    It was sick.

  174. EOS
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 6:06 pm | Permalink

    Actually, colon cancer is one of the most easily prevented. Every 10 years, bite the bullet, drink the prep, and let them scope you. It is relatively slow growing and they can remove problem tissue before it presents as a problem. The prep isn’t fun, but it sure beats cancer.

  175. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

    “Iron Lung
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 6:01 pm | Permalink
    I had an acquaintance whose wife was dying of colon cancer. He read on the internet that marijuana was an effective treatment for cancer and refused to let her go to the hospital, choosing to feed her marijuana instead.
    Of course, she quickly died a horrible death.”

    I have met people whose cancer has gone into remission while eating cannabinoid concentrates. I know some that have died too. The lack of useful research on cannabinoid medicine due to being a schedule I substance is criminal.

  176. Iron Lung
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

    “Alright, what’s one of Infowars’ products that is fraudulent there?”

    Do I need to repeat this? I thought you were “smart.”

    Producers of herbal supplements create pathologies that have no evidencial basis, and sell drugs to treat these fictional conditions.

  177. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 6:10 pm | Permalink

    Ohhhh, I thought you said it is a fact that Alex Jones’s products are fraudulent. Now you are going to a “stance” in general.

  178. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

    Pretty sure bentonite can remove toxins. It does in animals for sure.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5632318/

  179. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    I think I’m going to need some. I have high levels of metal in my blood.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9DxpeuMxUk

  180. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    EOS– “Actually, colon cancer is one of the most easily prevented. Every 10 years, bite the bullet, drink the prep, and let them scope you. It is relatively slow growing and they can remove problem tissue before it presents as a problem. The prep isn’t fun, but it sure beats cancer.”
    My friend was 34 when first diagnosed and had 4 genetic markers for cancer. She had the healthiest lifestyle of anyone I know. One person is still living in her primary family. She couldn’t prevent her cancer any more than you can prevent assuming all tragedy is the result of a failure of responsibility.

  181. EOS
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 6:20 pm | Permalink

    Jean,

    I think I spent more than $30. The prep is all OTC. Two bottles of Gatorade, a box of pills, and 2 bottles of a powder to mix with the Gatorade. The doctor was very convincing about the health benefits. It saves lives. A little inconvenience can go a long way in extending your life.

  182. EOS
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 6:23 pm | Permalink

    No, sometimes shit happens. But persons with the genetic markers get scoped every year and live full lives. Early detection is crucial.

  183. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 6:23 pm | Permalink

    HW– Do you understand the definition of fraudulent? Selling overpriced ‘cures’ for non-existent ailments qualifies. There’s no need to go over all of the products, but they have all been tested (I provided the link) and proven to be ineffective and overpriced if not dangerous.

    The evidence was provided and you ignored it.

  184. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 6:23 pm | Permalink

    EOS– fuck off.

  185. EOS
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

    No need to get nasty. It was a legit PSA.

  186. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

    There are no health benefits to the colonoscopy prep. The colonoscopy itself is simply a test, a necessary one, but not a ‘health benefit.’ Early detection does save lives, but not by itself. Why are you purposely obfuscating the issue at hand with assertions of unrelated and undisputed facts? Oh yeah, you are EOS.

  187. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

    Assertions that people with cancer somehow caused their own disease through irresponsibility pisses me off.
    Some people are much more genetically predisposed to cancer through no fault of their own. Some behaviors also predispose one to cancer. But then living in this world for any length of time also predisposes one to cancer.

  188. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

    My friend would have known she had genetic markers for cancer had she had access to decent health care before she was already sick. It’s possible early detection might have saved her. But she could not afford it. So the government ended up paying a lot of money later for her to die.

  189. EOS
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 6:35 pm | Permalink

    https://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/familial-adenomatous-polyposis

    If everyone in your family dies of colon cancer, tell your doctor. They remove the cancer when it is still a small polyp. You can’t stop the cancer from occurring, but you can prevent your death as a result of the disease. I’d call that a big health benefit.

  190. EOS
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

    Nobody but Jean mentioned anything about a person causing their own disease. She can’t dispute what I say, so she makes up shit.

  191. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 7:05 pm | Permalink

    What if the people in your family did not die of colon cancer?
    She could not have received the genetic test or the colonoscopy earlier, because she did not have health care until Obamacare passed.
    You did in fact imply that one can avoid dying of cancer by behaving responsibly. Personal responsibility to avoid adverse outcomes is a consistent theme to your posts. Most people reading here will recognize that pattern, even if you don’t. They may also think I’m full of shit. I only care about the opinion of a few people whom I know, respect and trust.

    I do enjoy seeing you curse, however.

  192. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

    There is no ‘health benefit’ to a colonoscopy in and of itself, absent further treatment.
    There is for sure no ‘health benefit’ to a bowel cleanse prep before a colonoscopy.
    There is no ‘health benefit’ to an Alex Jones colon cleanse either.

    These are easily demonstrated facts.

  193. EOS
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

    Personal responsibility to avoid adverse outcomes is a far cry from saying a person caused the disease herself. I realize that you don’t like logic, but your assumption is highly illogical.

  194. EOS
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

    Removing any polyps that are found is an integral part of the colonoscopy procedure. A good bowel prep is essential to visualize small polyps. The better the prep, the better the results of the procedure. It is very much a health benefit. It sounds like you have no personal experience of a colonoscopy. That’s my goal. To encourage everyone to have a colonoscopy done. A lot more lives would be saved if people got over their reluctance to have this procedure. Most deaths from colon cancer are highly preventable.

    And just in case anyone is confused, these herbal detox products are worthless. Same as the 7 day detox diets. Same as vitamins for persons who eat a good diet. You three were going down another rabbit trail and I thought I might add some useful information. Go ahead, back to your bullshit.

  195. Iron lung
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    https://www.infowarsstore.com/natural-body-detox-and-colon-cleanse.html

    Fraudulent.

  196. EOS
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 7:51 pm | Permalink

    Yes, IL and I agree on something. But its not as if Alex Jones show is the only one accepting advertising from these scams.

  197. EOS
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

    And whatever you do, don’t buy any of Alex’s fluoride paste.

  198. EOS
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

    Oh wait, I should have read the fine print. It’s fluoride-free. Well that’s something.

  199. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 8:03 pm | Permalink

    The Finger

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvO8rtqkjIo

  200. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 11:41 pm | Permalink

    https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/4/6/15160486/alex-jones-vaccines-autism-gates-fungus-health-conspiracy-theories

  201. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 11:42 pm | Permalink

    https://www.infowars.com/fluoride-poison-on-tap-documentary/

    Fear mongering to sell useless price inflated products.
    And EOS, Jones does not just advertise these products, he produces them.

  202. Jean Henry
    Posted January 25, 2018 at 11:45 pm | Permalink

    EOS– I have had more than my fair share of colonoscopies. I have a chromic disease of the colon. You still are far a way from the central point. This entire discussion has been an exercise in absurdity.

  203. Jean Henry
    Posted January 26, 2018 at 12:08 am | Permalink

    Well they’re selling activated charcoal lattes in Detroit. As I said, fools come in all stripes.
    https://www.facebook.com/theredhookdetroit/photos/a.1482707001942196.1073741827.1482705191942377/1994796377399920/

  204. Sad
    Posted January 26, 2018 at 2:00 am | Permalink

    Joe Frank had colon cancer.

    He was funny, intentionally.

    EOS – you’ll like this. At my church they changed one of the songs, hum along if you know it.

    Faith , Hope and Love abound,
    But they are all superseded by immigration law….

  205. EOS
    Posted January 26, 2018 at 4:06 am | Permalink

    That’s a good one – chromic disease. Do you shit silver plated turds? Why would you have a single colonoscopy if you don’t think there is any health benefit?

  206. Jcp2
    Posted January 26, 2018 at 7:54 am | Permalink

    It’s likely chronic, phone typo. M right next to n. Colonoscopies are a good way to screw for colon cancer, but many colon cancers are not detected, even with screening. The benefit is in the visualization and biopsy of suspicious areas, not in the prep. Colonoscopies are performed with suboptimal preps, or for non screening emergencies, no prep at all. In that case, visualization is crappier than usual.

  207. Jean Henry
    Posted January 26, 2018 at 8:19 am | Permalink

    EOS— I think we are using the term health benefit differently. I defined my use of the word early on. I never said colonoscopies were unnecessary, just that they are diagnostic and confer no health benefit in and of themselves without added procedure. You brought up a red herring as some kind of paternalistic PSA to divert from the issue at hand, Alex Jones colon cleanse snake oil. I argued you to shut you up. That was a failed tactic.

    It was useful though. You demonstrated the concern and compassion of a piece of marble. Something we all suspected, but you denied. You have claimed Christian compassion many times and suggested we lack it. But there it was over and over again. Brutal indifference.

  208. Jean Henry
    Posted January 26, 2018 at 8:24 am | Permalink

    I will concede I was wrong as JCP2 pointed up, as they are not solely diagnostic but are used for procedures. I considered those procedures as separate from the scoping, even though one facilitates the other.
    None of that means Alex Jones product has any legitimacy…

  209. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 26, 2018 at 8:29 am | Permalink

    Oops

    http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/diseases-risks/diseases/fluorosis/en/

    “Ingestion of excess fluoride, most commonly in drinking-water, can cause fluorosis which affects the teeth and bones. Moderate amounts lead to dental effects, but long-term ingestion of large amounts can lead to potentially severe skeletal problems.”

  210. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 26, 2018 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 9:20 am | Permalink
    Nutjobs and fake nutjobs (you know it is true – we’ve covered that; it has to be considered) everywhere. Did you even notice when the one guy tried to assassinate a bunch of republican politicians last year and nearly succeeded/did succeed in wounding one badly?

    Jean Henry
    Posted January 24, 2018 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    HW- ‘we’ havent Covered it. You held forth with another transparently self serving crack pot theory and we mostly ignored you. Your ‘fake but job’ theory does not have to be considered. Neither do false flag conspiracy theories. If there’s a simple and reasonable explanation why would we consider the complex and less likely scenario? You’d have to be nuts to be fooled by conspiracy theories.

    MM has bitten on several fake, false, fraudulent hoaxes. That’s well established. Subsequent media reports have supported it and it has been discussed here. So we have in fact covered it. Therefore it would be wise to keep in mind this could be another case of it. Try to keep up.

  211. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 26, 2018 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    This part is mine and new in case there is any confusion to the reader:

    “MM has bitten on several fake, false, fraudulent hoaxes. That’s well established. Subsequent media reports have supported it and it has been discussed here. So we have in fact covered it. Therefore it would be wise to keep in mind this could be another case of it. Try to keep up.”

  212. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 26, 2018 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    I didn’t say anything about a false flag. A false flag is not the same as a hoax. False flags are real attacks blamed on someone who is not the attacker. The USS Liberty attack in 1967 was a false flag for example. Israel attacked the US ship, intending to blame it on Arabs to bring the US into the conflict.

  213. Jean Henry
    Posted January 26, 2018 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    There is some limited and inconclusive.evidence that fluoride may not be effective and in extreme doses, harmful. More study is needed.

    That does not mean the fluoride levels in our water or toothpaste are harmful. It’s not a mind control agent first used by the Nazi’s to take away the citizenry’s capacity for independent thought– as asserted by Alex Jones.

    See the difference, HW…

  214. Sad
    Posted January 26, 2018 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    An illustration of what it’s like trying to keep up with HW

    https://media.giphy.com/media/2bhC3jhs7vCb6/giphy.gi

  215. Sad
    Posted January 26, 2018 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    Expending a lot of energy and not getting anywhere.

  216. Jean Henry
    Posted January 26, 2018 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    HW– Are you bringing up an old, unrelated discussion thread to try to bait more engagement? Didn’t Mark give you enough to work with in the latest post? I have to be productive today, so I’m signing off. It’s a nice day. Get outside.

  217. Jean Henry
    Posted January 26, 2018 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    HW This is what IL means by spastic commentary…

  218. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 26, 2018 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    You don’t even know where you are. Those quotes are from the beginning of this very thread.

  219. Jean Henry
    Posted January 26, 2018 at 9:46 am | Permalink

    I try to block out everything you say. I definitely don’t keep track of what happened almost 200 comments ago. I honestly have no idea what your point is re MM. Who does any of that matter. Maybe you want to be posting on the Johnson piece?

    It could be that I’m just dense and cant keep up with your brilliance.

  220. EOS
    Posted January 26, 2018 at 9:46 am | Permalink

    @jcp –
    “visualization is crappier than usual” Ha! Well said. I would think that would make the exam less beneficial.

    @Jean – “You have claimed Christian compassion many times and suggested we lack it.” Never once have I ever written anything like that. Stop making up shit.

  221. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 26, 2018 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    “Jean Henry
    Posted January 26, 2018 at 9:46 am | Permalink
    I try to block out everything you say. I definitely don’t keep track of what happened almost 200 comments ago. I honestly have no idea what your point is re MM. Who does any of that matter. Maybe you want to be posting on the Johnson piece?
    It could be that I’m just dense and cant keep up with your brilliance.”

    There is a certain level of comprehension I take for granted. Refusing to pay attention to what someone says but insisting on commenting on it is what? I don’t get what is confusing to you that the caller could have ulterior motives consistent with the local cases I mentioned that MM bit on.

  222. nick
    Posted January 26, 2018 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    if you’re scared of fluoride follow the lead of the country’s most brilliant minds and get off the water grid maaaan.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/29/dining/raw-water-unfiltered.html

    peace, love and dysentary.

  223. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 26, 2018 at 10:57 am | Permalink

    Specifically what is added to tap water

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexafluorosilicic_acid

    “Hexafluorosilicic acid is an inorganic compound…It is a colorless liquid rarely encountered undiluted. Hexafluorosilicic acid has a distinctive sour taste and pungent smell. It is produced naturally on a large scale in volcanoes.[1][2] It is manufactured as a precursor to aluminum trifluoride and synthetic cryolite. It is commonly used as a source of fluoride for water fluoridation.[3][4] Salts derived from hexafluorosilicic acid are called hexafluorosilicates.”

  224. Sheriff Clarke by prozy
    Posted January 28, 2018 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

    Sheriff David A. Clarke, Jr. says CNN is getting what they deserve.

    @SheriffClarke
    “Boo-Hoo. CNN repeatedly with no foundation calls @realDonaldTrump racist, fat, mentally unstable. Does CNN realize the power of their words as they do nothing but mock, ridicule and criticize @realDonaldTrump? They can dish it out but can’t take it.”

  225. Iron Lung
    Posted January 28, 2018 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    The HW will be posting about chemtrails in 1, 2, 3……

  226. Jean Henry
    Posted January 28, 2018 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

    Just saw this for impulse buy sale at Argus in Ann Arbor. It’s also sold, predictably at Zingerman’s and Plum Market. The name Boochy Mama is not satirical play on Bougie apparently. The table top lit promises more than the website: “Wildfire Tonic has helped with: inflammation, acid reflux, fighting the common cold, arthritis, metabolism, yeast infections, congestion and weight loss.” Any product proven to improve all those conditions would be quite a discovery. Also very unlikely. More snake oil. $5 a shot. http://www.boochymama.com/wildfire-tonic/

  227. Iron lung
    Posted January 28, 2018 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

    Some people who took it got better so it must cure cancer.

  228. Jean Henry
    Posted January 28, 2018 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

    Maybe it also increases youthfulness. ‘Anti-aging’ is my personal favorite fraudulent product claim.
    No appeal to fear and neurosis there.

  229. Jean Henry
    Posted January 28, 2018 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

    I can’t figure out how this is legal. This regulation seems to assert it is not, but in other places FDA requirements for health claims in labelling and promotion appear to be ‘suggested’ not required. https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=101.14

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