2020 Election Open Thread

I don’t know how much I’ll be able to update this throughout the day, but I thought that I’d start up a thread, just so that we’d have somewhere to discuss voting, the results of the election, etc. Best of luck, everyone. Here’s hoping that all of our hard work pays off today, and we decisively bring this dark chapter of American history once and for all today.

If you aren’t registered to vote, it’s still not too late. If you’re here in Michigan, and you’ve yet to register to vote, it’s not too late. You can still cast your ballot. All you have to do is visit your township of city clerk’s office before 8:00 PM this evening. Before you go, though, check here to make sure you aren’t already registered. [If you are already registered, you just need to fid your polling place, grab your ID, and go there to vote.] If you do want to resister and vote today, here’s a list of what you’ll need to take with you.

If you have any other Michigan voting related questions, check our the Michigan Department of State’s Voter Information Center.

Know your rights. Before heading out to vote today, check out the Michigan ACLU’s Voting Guide, which contains, among other things, the following advice as to what you should do if you have any problems casting your ballot.

What if I have a problem voting, or someone is trying to intimidate or harass me?

Tell a poll worker immediately. If the poll worker is the problem, or they don’t address the problem, call your local city/township clerk. If the city/township clerk doesn’t address the problem, call one of the nonpartisan Election Protection hotlines… [See numbers below.]

What if someone challenges my right to vote?

Step 1: Ask to be sworn in by the poll worker,
Step 2: Answer whatever questions are necessary to establish your eligibility to vote, and,
Step 3: Vote.

What if I make a mistake on my ballot or the voting machine malfunctions?

If you make a mistake, ask for a new ballot right away. You have the right to a new ballot if you
catch the mistake before your ballot is inserted into the tabulator machine and counted. If the scanner rejects your ballot, ask for a new one. You have the right to start over. If the tabulator machine isn’t working, you can place your completed ballot into a bin in the tabulator machine. The poll workers will insert your ballot into the tabulator once the machine is working again.

Now here are those numbers, in case you need to call anyone for assistance. [You can also email “questions@michiganvoting.org” for help.]

Desecration of Jewish graves in Michigan. The Washington Post is reporting that “Trump” and “MAGA” were spray-painted on gravestones at a Jewish cemetery in Grand Rapids yesterday, not far from where the President held his rally. [In Grand Rapids last night, Trump, by the way, once again repeated the claim that Joe Biden, a devout Catholic, is “against God.”] The following image is from the Michigan ADL.

The folks on Fox News are saying that the Trump should “have a say in whether he wins or not.” Pushing back against Democrats, who are arguing that every mailed vote should be counted in accordance with U.S. law before a winner is named in today’s election, the folks at Fox News this morning agued that Donald Trump should have a say in whether or not he’s declared the winner.

The results are in. I know is a pretty small sample size, but Joe Biden just took all five of the votes cast for president in the very small township of Dixville Notch, New Hampshire, one of the first places in the country to announce its votes. You should still go out and vote, though. This isn’t quite over yet.

Never give up hope. God, I really needed this video right now. I’ve watched a lot of videos this election cycle, but this one really got to me. We tend to focus on the evil in the world, as it’s so apparent these days, but there is still so much good here in the United States. This is a great reminder of what’s at stake, and positive future that can be ours if we just work together. This is the vision of America that I want for my children.

The Election Day election interference has begun. It’s being reported by Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel that Flint residents are receiving robocalls telling them to vote tomorrow.

It’s also being reported by NBC that the Pennsylvania Secretary of State has reached out to the FBI to let them know that members of the Trump campaign have asked about the security plans for ballots submitted in three specific counties. [Who wants to be that they counties in question are Democratic strongholds?]

People are actually registering today and voting in Michigan. As of 2:30 today, 12,530 new voters had registered to vote in the state according to Jake Rollow, a spokesperson for the Michigan Secretary of State spokesman. This is a good thing, and speaks to the importance of our new same-day-registration law.

It’s way closer that it should be, and that doesn’t bode well for the future of our nation. It’s almost 11:00 PM, and things appear to be very close.

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  1. Posted November 3, 2020 at 9:20 am | Permalink

    I’ve been driving around visiting polling locations this morning. Turnout looks lighter than we saw in the morning back in 2016. It’s quite a bit lighter than we saw in 2018, at least at the polling locations I’ve looked at. Of course we also have already had about 100 million ballots cast before polls even opened today.

    As usual, more Republicans vote in the mornings on Election Day, while Democrats tend to vote later in the day. So a good number of Trump supporters were in the lines early.

  2. Posted November 3, 2020 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    I looked at the County web site earlier. Only 28% of Ypsilanti voters had utilized early voting. A lot more Ypsi folks need to hit the polls today. Think I will walk over to the Senior Center at noon and see what the vote total is like.

  3. Jean Henry
    Posted November 3, 2020 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    I’m surprised Trump hasn’t already declared himself the winner. Admirable restraint.

  4. Jean Henry
    Posted November 3, 2020 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    I’ve seen several photographs in predominantly Black neighborhoods in Ypsi of long lines. Posters said the lines were longer than usual which contradicts iRoberts report.

  5. Posted November 3, 2020 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    I randomly checked some Ann Arbor sites. According to City web site, no one in line.


    Though they also reported that 48% of voters had requested absentee, and that 98% of those votes have been returned.


  6. Posted November 3, 2020 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    Got my figures messed up. County figures on absentee–91% of the absentee ballots were returned.

  7. Jean Henry
    Posted November 3, 2020 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    Thinking of this today and wondering how it is we let Christian Conservatives assume the moral high ground and outsized political power when they don’t well represent Christianity (most are liberal), conservatism (less government interference), or morality (see below):

    “The moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; and those who are in shadows of life, the sick, the needy, and the handicapped.”
    Hubert H. Humphrey

  8. Jean Henry
    Posted November 3, 2020 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    91% were returned representing what % of registered voters, Wobblie?

  9. Demetrius
    Posted November 3, 2020 at 10:54 am | Permalink

    NYT: The One Pollster in America Who Is Sure Trump Is Going to Win

    Robert Cahaly’s polls have Arizona, Michigan and Florida in the president’s column. It’s hard to find another pollster who agrees with him. But they didn’t believe him in 2016 either.

    f President Trump pieces together an Electoral College win on Tuesday, at least one pollster — and perhaps only one — will be able to say, “I told you so.”

    That person is Robert Cahaly, whose Trafalgar Group this year has released a consistent stream of battleground-state polls showing the president highly competitive against Joseph R. Biden Jr., and often out ahead, in states where most other pollsters have shown a steady Biden lead.

    Trafalgar does not disclose its methods, and is considered far too shadowy by other pollsters to be taken seriously. Mostly, they dismiss it as an outlier. But for Mr. Cahaly, “I told you so” is already a calling card.


  10. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 3, 2020 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    He discusses his methods.

  11. Posted November 3, 2020 at 12:10 pm | Permalink


    As of late Monday, 154,227 absentee ballots were turned in by county voters out of 169,283 issued, a 91% return rate so far, said County Elections Director Ed Golembiewski.

    “Yes, we are heading for record turnout,” Golembiewski said late Monday as the early turnout rate amounted to about 48% of the county’s 318,421 registered voters.

    The early turnout figure is 56% if excluding the county’s 43,000-plus “inactive voters” from the calculation. Those are people who haven’t voted here in several years and may no longer live here but remain on the voter registration rolls.

    In Ann Arbor, 52,810 out of 57,921 absentee ballots were turned in already, a 92% return rate, City Clerk Jackie Beaudry said early Tuesday as more were being processed.

  12. iRobert
    Posted November 3, 2020 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

    What do the polling places in Ypsilanti look like now, Jean?

    How do they look on EMU campus?

  13. Robert Nolan
    Posted November 3, 2020 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    Never saw so many cars, signs and people at the Saline and Pittsfield polls. In twenty years. Not even close. So long Donald.

  14. iRobert
    Posted November 3, 2020 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

    Jean: “I’ve seen several photographs in predominantly Black neighborhoods in Ypsi of long lines. Posters said the lines were longer than usual which contradicts iRoberts report.”

    I haven’t been to any precincts in Ypsilanti. If the turnout is high in predominantly black neighborhoods there, that’s great. However, long lines that are not moving are not a good thing. That’s why photos aren’t helpful. It’s the volume and speed of votes being cast that matters.

  15. Kyle Griffin by proxy
    Posted November 3, 2020 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

    Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson: “I am really confident that we may have results in sooner, maybe even some things to announce tonight. But we are going to prioritize again accuracy and being methodical above all else.”

  16. Anonymous
    Posted November 3, 2020 at 2:21 pm | Permalink


  17. iRobert
    Posted November 3, 2020 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    I have some indications that voter lists have been hacked and scrambled. Hopefully the damage has not been extensive.

    The AG is addressing the robocall attacks in Flint.

  18. Posted November 3, 2020 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

    The senior center had just over 250 voters by about 2. Which means just over 100 voted in about 3 hours.

  19. iRobert
    Posted November 3, 2020 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

    Polls are closed now in most of Indiana and eastern Kentucky.

    If Biden has done considerably better with suburban Indianapolis voters than Clinton did in 2016, that’s very likely the case in suburban Detroit, Philadelphia and other key metros as well.

  20. iRobert
    Posted November 3, 2020 at 7:24 pm | Permalink

    Indiana and Kentucky called for Trump

    Vermont called for Biden

  21. iRobert
    Posted November 3, 2020 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

    Polls in Ohio and North Carolina have closed now.

  22. iRobert
    Posted November 3, 2020 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    Fox called Kentucky debate race for McConnell

  23. iRobert
    Posted November 3, 2020 at 7:48 pm | Permalink

    Fox called Kentucky senate race for McConnell

  24. Posted November 3, 2020 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

    AP is calling Virginia for Biden

  25. Posted November 3, 2020 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

    AP is calling West Virginia for Trump

  26. Jean Henry
    Posted November 3, 2020 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

    Virginia went heavily Trump. I recommend watching John King on CNN and just dealing with Wolf Blitzer.

    This is going to be close. I’m pretty sure it will come down to PA which is why Trump is fixated on disrupting the vote and count there. Which is why Biden was there today. And we won’t know the final results there until Friday according to their SOS.

    I remain hopeful that we’ll take the senate. That will fuck Trump up. Back to EO’s and vetoes.

  27. iRobert
    Posted November 3, 2020 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

    The electoral college totals are really more like Biden 265 to Trump 144 when looking at what’s likely secured.

    Biden needs ONE of the following to get to 270:
    North Carolina

  28. Posted November 3, 2020 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

    Republicans today filed suit over absentee ballots cast in a suburban county in PA

  29. Jean Henry
    Posted November 3, 2020 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

    I have a prediction! After this election, we will stop talking about the Latino vote like it’s a block. I doubt we’ll distinguish countries of origin but at least maybe we’ll talk about the Florida v the Southwest-West Latino vote

  30. Posted November 3, 2020 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

    They say exit polls show Trump held onto the senior vote by a couple percent.

    JH, I think the Latino vote can really be defined by how dark you are.

  31. Posted November 3, 2020 at 8:55 pm | Permalink

    JH, that does not mean your Latino prediction is wrong. They are not mutually exclusive categories.

  32. Posted November 3, 2020 at 9:14 pm | Permalink

    Republicans file suit to stop vote counting in Nevada


  33. iRobert
    Posted November 3, 2020 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

    Dems took Colorado’s US senate seat.

  34. Nate Silver by proxy
    Posted November 3, 2020 at 9:44 pm | Permalink

    I’ve been looking a bit at Johnson County, KS (wealthy KC suburbs) where Biden is +8 with 98 percent reported. Trump won it by +3 in 2016. If that Johnson Co. result is as complete as claimed, would be a good sign for Biden in other Midwestern suburbs.

  35. Jean Henry
    Posted November 3, 2020 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

    ‘JH, I think the Latino vote can really be defined by how dark you are.‘ —Wobblie

    Amazingly, I’m sure that’s not even close to the most fucked up thing that will be said on this thread. The night is young.

  36. iRobert
    Posted November 3, 2020 at 11:15 pm | Permalink

    Georgia looks like a long real shot for Dems now. North Carolina looks to be lost. Florida also. Texas looks like an even less likely long shot than North Carolina. I think they’ll all end up being secured for the GOP.

    So the electoral college totals are really more like Biden 265 to Trump 242 when looking at what’s likely secured. It’s probably going to have to come to Pennsylvania, but Arizona could still do it.

  37. Jean Henry
    Posted November 3, 2020 at 11:26 pm | Permalink

    All the Biden lanes are narrowing. The Senate turn isn’t happening. No blue wave. So far tonight feels very familiar.

  38. Posted November 4, 2020 at 12:17 am | Permalink

    Biden was the most “electable” Democrat? He has to win MI, WI, and Penn. Not likely. I am just a dolt, but maybe if the Dems had been campaigning on Medicare for All?

  39. Posted November 4, 2020 at 12:23 am | Permalink

    Time to switch gears.


  40. Jean Henry
    Posted November 4, 2020 at 3:04 am | Permalink

    Wobblie— the entire campaign against Biden was ‘he’s a socialist.’ And it worked. Really well.

  41. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 4, 2020 at 3:14 am | Permalink

    There were 3 messages: 1) Biden lies; 2) Biden says he is a socialist; 3) Biden says he is not a socialist.

    1 is true because 2 and 3 are true.

    1 alienated voters who wanted someone truthful. 2 alienated voters who wanted a moderate. 3 alienated voters who wanted a socialist.

    Biden’s strategy to say different things to different groups of people did not work.

  42. Posted November 4, 2020 at 6:13 am | Permalink

    Biden can still win if the vote comes out of Detroit. Biden is winning Wis., and Nev. if he can take Michigan he gets 270.

    JH, I understand you think people only vote against the other candidate. So remember JH, be a good DNC Democrat and hit left move right.

  43. Jean Henry
    Posted November 4, 2020 at 7:40 am | Permalink

    Wobblie— I support MFA. I’m more progressive than you on many issues. I’m just not an isolationist and nativist like you and Trump. I’ll never understand why anti-globalism is considered progressive. I do understand why anti-corporatist is.
    What I REALLY understand is that this is a country that is half conservative and 100% committed to personal Liberty and autonomy and deeply so. I’m not sure you do.

    Also the accusation of punching left is rich since you seem to spend all your time attacking and belittling those who you perceive as being just to your right.

    The DNC motivation to distance themselves from the left arises entirely from the reality that ppl like you freak much of the rest of the country out, especially those who have lived under oppressive leftist regimes. There is nothing about being leftist that makes anyone inherently a better person. It’s just a belief system. History shows that leftist countries aren’t necessarily more humane ones.

  44. Posted November 4, 2020 at 8:37 am | Permalink

    JH, I am an Internationalist. Internationalism means you support the people in other countries. Globalism as implemented by the USA means we go and take over your economy. Internationalism is cheering the results of the Bolivian election. Globalism championed the coup. If Biden wins in Michigan it will be because of that socialist Talib got her people out on the street getting people out to vote.

    ‘especially those who have lived under oppressive leftist regimes” you live in a time warp. Cuban Americans were the exploiters and supporters of Batista. Venezuelan Americans are middle class grifters who hope the US brings them back to power. Your inability to understand my comment about “darker” latinos demonstrates you do not have a clue about race and class. Typical of liberals who feel entitled to my vote despite hitting left and moving right.

    If it was not for the socialist like Talib and Sanders convincing people like me that voting for the worst Democrat is still better than Trump, the election would not even have been close.
    JH, you really do take the cake, I guess you think you are entitled to eat it too. Detroit and the socialist can still win it for Biden.–What kind of hope do you hold out ?

  45. Posted November 4, 2020 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    There are 14 counties in Michigan which have not yet finished counting. 11 are rural counties going for Trump. Wayne, Oakland and Genesee are heavily for Biden. Biden is likely to get another 75000 votes out of Wayne versus 35000 for Trump. Oakland is likely to deliver another 5000+ votes for Biden over Trumps projected total and Genesee should deliver another 1000 more votes than Trump will get. So Biden is likely to get an additional 46,000 more votes than Trump out of those three counties. Allegan and Kent counties will deliver more additional votes for Trump than Biden. Currently Trump leads by about 20,000 votes. It is going to be very close. They better be scouring the post offices for ballots.

  46. Jean Henry
    Posted November 4, 2020 at 9:12 am | Permalink

    “As of 7 am, Michigan has not been called for Biden. Currently we are looking at about 500-600,000 absentee ballots yet to be counted and reported, which would give us an overall turnout of about 5.1 million – the highest ever for the state but short of what had been predicted.

    The remaining ballots are from areas of the state that are progressive (Wayne, Oakland, Kalamazoo, Genesee and Flint) and should break our way.

    Also – we need Democratic observers now at the Detroit counting center. The GOP just sent in an additional 100 and we are working to add to our existing crew there.”

  47. Jean Henry
    Posted November 4, 2020 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    Wobblie — I’m grateful for anyone who voted Biden. No special thank you’d to you or other leftists for doing what was right. Voting against ones conscience is common not noble sacrifice. Most voters are voting against their principles in some ways. That’s just how democracy works.

  48. Posted November 4, 2020 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    JH, Since Biden is a “Socialist”, ie. the first thing out of you, was the “socialist” label lost the election–I am just pointing out in my dullard way that you maybe wrong. As many of us were saying back in the spring, they are going to call Biden a socialist anyway, why not run one?

    Biden just took the lead in Michigan with more votes coming out of Oakland county. It really looks like Kent and Allegan are sitting waiting to see what comes out of Detroit and Flint.

  49. Demetrius
    Posted November 4, 2020 at 9:27 am | Permalink

    Losing the election to Donald Trump in 2016 was unimaginable.

    Losing the election to Donald Trump in 2020 – or even having it be this close – is unforgivable.

    And yet, the usual suspects are on here already this morning, just like after 2016, blaming racism, sexism, populism nativism, leftism, whatever … anything other than taking a cold hard look at why the Democratic establishment keeps choosing such terrible candidates, and running such terrible campaigns.

    After the 2016 debacle, I had hoped that Democrats would learn some much-needed lessons, and come back swinging. Instead, early this Spring and over the Summer, as it became clearer that the “establishment” was coalescing around Joe Biden, essentially doubling-down on the same tired, failed strategy … I basically gave up hope.

    I suppose there’s still a chance (provided we even continue having elections) that Democrats might someday reform and attempt to rebuild. They could start by getting rid of Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Dick Durbin, Debbie Wasserman-Schulz, Tom Perez, and all the other lifetime party hacks. They might also do some soul-searching to understand why they (and their message) are so tragically out of touch with what many millions of ordinary Americans are experiencing, what they think, and how they feel. They might also want to consider championing a bold policy proposal or two … instead of running on a single plank: “Vote for me, I’ve been in Washington forever, and I’m not Donald Trump.”

    Until then, a candidate, and a party, that can’t win in an historic landslide after four years of Donald Fucking Trump as president has no business even pretending to be a national governing party.

  50. Posted November 4, 2020 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    “what was right. Voting against ones conscience is common not noble sacrifice. Most voters are voting against their principles in some ways.”

    Excellent analysis. But you left out the 30+ percent of eligible voters who don’t vote, because they refuse to vote against their conscience or principles. Nothing noble about voting, it forces you to sacrifice principles for cheap political purposes.

    Ranked choice voting could change that dynamic and get more people voting. I believe four more states had this on the ballot. Would you be in favor of rank choice JH?

  51. Jean Henry
    Posted November 4, 2020 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    Wobblie I said he was branded a socialist not that he was one. I’m not at all opposed to socialism without statism or any of the many hybrid models. The race is closer than it has any right to be. Please go out and convince more people you are right. You have a lot of work to do that won’t be solved by constantly arguing with people who mostly agree with you.

    It does look like Biden will win Michigan. Thank god.

  52. Posted November 4, 2020 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    Uber, Lyft, DoorDash, Instacart and Postmates poured more than $205 million into Prop. 22, which exempts drivers and couriers from being reclassified as employees. I believe all of these companies would be called Globalist Corporations (they operate internationally). They just ensured that Gig employees in California get the same level of employee protections as if they worked in one of their third world jurisdictions.
    This is why I oppose Globalism and Empire. What we do to the rest of the world, WILL be brought back and done to us.

    But I suppose JH is all on board with the gigification of our economy (it is a Global norm after all).
    You know back before the days of the UMWA, coal miners were “gig” workers.

  53. Jean Henry
    Posted November 4, 2020 at 9:52 am | Permalink

    I like how Wobblie thinks all of those 30% who don’t vote agree with him.

    Demetrius nativism is the heart of racism. Careful what you defend.

    Please go on with you Bernie would have won nonsense for as long as you need to. If Biden wins and serves well I believe we will have a truly strong progressive candidate of color and likely a woman very soon and THAT candidate will likely win. Once the progressive case gets made with solid policy improvements.

    Have any of you even read Biden’s policy proposals? They are far left of any we’ve seen from a Dem candidate. Democracies work on compromise, even ones with many parties. The modern Dem party is already doing a better job of incorporating multiple perspectives in policy, just like coalitions do in democracies with many parties.

    I hope the Dem party evolves into one I can learn to love but I’ve been mostly frustrated with it since Bill Clinton who I hated.

  54. Jean Henry
    Posted November 4, 2020 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    You suppose wrong Wobblie. All the fucking time.

    I’ve been active working for a living minimum wage fit a long time now.

  55. Posted November 4, 2020 at 10:15 am | Permalink

    JH, glad you are working on min. wage. You do know that GIG employees do not get min. wage. I suspect lots of that 30+ percent who do not vote are right wing christians. Others are low information and low civic engagement folks. But unless they are given a stake in the outcome of elections, charlatans (and the evil you can’t get enough of denouncing–populism) will have a reservoir of people from which to spring.
    I see you punted on ranked choice.

    It is not over here in Michigan (Allegan and Kent seem to be waiting for Wayne) or Nevada. Biden needs both. It looks like Biden has a big enough lead in Wisconsin, but he is taking it on the chin in Penn.

  56. Jean Henry
    Posted November 4, 2020 at 10:23 am | Permalink

    Populism is a campaign strategy. And it can be powerful and decent or powerful and corrupted. It is not a political position. It can be left or right or even center (though since it feeds on divisiveness —warranted or not— it’s rarely centrist.) You and others here conflate populism with grassroots political activism. They are not the same thing at all.

    Yes I know about gig workers. I’m freelance myself. The living wage movement includes policy changes to protect gig workers and it actively organizers those workers as well.

  57. Posted November 4, 2020 at 10:34 am | Permalink

    wobblie, you don’t think it is possible that one of the many reasons Clinton lost in 2016 was that she listened to Sanders and adopted the most liberal platform of any candidate to date? That she lost the middle? There are some claiming that may have been Biden’s mistake too but I am not so sure.

    FF, if lying were a trait that cost politicians elections, Trump wouldn’t even be in the running.

  58. Jean Henry
    Posted November 4, 2020 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    It’s really interesting how leftists always think they would win. The economy was good (despite a nightmare deficit). We all talk about policy differences endlessly but most ppl don’t. Presidential elections consistently hinge on the state of the economy, even though the sitting president is rarely responsible for the economy in the first term. I knew this would be close. I knew we’d be waiting for the last states. I don’t think it’s fair to call this a failure for Biden or his campaign. It was too be expected. We are so insulated from opposing view points that ppl like Demetrius and Wobblie think others on the left with slightly different priorities are the problem.

  59. iRobert
    Posted November 4, 2020 at 10:46 am | Permalink

    The Republican strategy is to accuse us all of being Wobblies, and it works well. Wobblies lose.

  60. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 4, 2020 at 10:54 am | Permalink

    Kathy Boockvar (PA) regarding ballots WITHOUT postmarks: “As long as there is no affirmative evidence that it was postmarked after Nov 3rd, as long as we receive it by Nov 6th, 5pm, yes it will be counted.”

  61. Jean Henry
    Posted November 4, 2020 at 11:13 am | Permalink

    The Democratic Party represents half the country. They must to win elections. It’s not a force for deep progressive change because it can’t be until grassroots activism moves most of the rest of the country that way. And that is happening across the county. It’s not going to show up in a winning Presidential candidate until that work is more successful.

    From a leftist who gets it:
    “The “this race shouldn’t be this close” folks seem to really underestimate how racist and polarized this country is. Gotta distinguish the difference between understanding the country as it is and how you’d want it to be. We have organize long-term and engage in political struggle to achieve the latter.

    But, we are in better shape right now than we were the morning after the 2016 election. Biden closed the gap in GA, the AP called AZ for him, so it’s a matter of time before other networks do, and he’s taken the lead in MI and WI. If the reports about where the uncounted votes are coming from are right, then the president is going to have find a way to stop the states from counting votes.

    In any case, though, the lesson here, no matter who wins, is that we got our marching orders. We’ll have to continue to go deeper with our community organizing, keep developing and working on projects with people to help build power, use a diversity of tactics (not excluding electoral politics) to develop as much leverage as possible, and confront Trumpism and whatever form neoliberalism takes if Biden wins. We have a lot of work to do.”

  62. Posted November 4, 2020 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    JH,”. We’ll have to continue to go deeper with our community organizing, keep developing and working on projects with people to help build power, use a diversity of tactics (not excluding electoral politics) to develop as much leverage as possible, and confront Trumpism and whatever form neoliberalism takes if Biden wins. We have a lot of work to do.” once again I agree whole heartedly with you, (Corporate Globalism is of course one of the hallmarks of neoliberalism). I’m pretty dense, but your program sure sounds like something I would get behind.
    Still no comment on rank choice.

  63. Posted November 4, 2020 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    Frustrating. The web site showing county totals now is down. Anybody know where the count stands in Kent and Allegan counties? Once those totals are in, the bulk of Trump votes will have been counted. Detroit and Flint may yet give the election to Biden.

  64. Posted November 4, 2020 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    FWIW, I *love* ranked-choice voting and it is something I hope Michigan can adopt.

    It does look like Michigan is going to go with Biden. It also looks like we may have a new senator. That is disappointing but I guess it is still too early to call that race either. Fingers crossed there!

  65. Posted November 4, 2020 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    Still 20% of the vote to be reported in Wayne. Only 15% left in Kent. Still 20% in Genesee. Biden up by 33000 is looking pretty good. It won’t matter what happens in Penn. as long as Biden still takes Nevada–only an 8000 vote lead with 25% of the vote to count.

    I guess folks should keep sending donations to the DNC–going to be paying for a lot of lawyers.

  66. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 4, 2020 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    Jocelyn Benson seems happy.

  67. Posted November 4, 2020 at 11:42 am | Permalink

    Elissa Slotkin is looking like she is going to keep her seat in the house! Yay. I wrote a bunch of postcards for her this time!

    Also The Squad are all keeping their seats too, as is our rep Debbie Dingell. Yay!

  68. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 4, 2020 at 11:42 am | Permalink

    Is Nevada counting mail in votes last? Anybody know?

  69. Demetrius
    Posted November 4, 2020 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    [The Democratic Party represents half the country.]

    Yes, but to gain and hold power – let alone to affect real change – they need to get MORE than half!

    [“The “this race shouldn’t be this close” folks seem to really underestimate how racist and polarized this country is.]

    No, trust me, we do. On the contrary, it seems to be establishment Democrats who don’t really understand the electorate.

    [We have organize long-term and engage in political struggle to achieve the latter. … We’ll
    We’ll have to continue to go deeper with our community organizing, keep developing and working on projects with people to help build power, use a diversity of tactics (not excluding electoral politics) to develop as much leverage as possible …]

    Yeah, let’s just keep doing the same thing over and over again … strategizing, and theorizing, and organizing, and cultivating the “grass roots” … until those stupid voters finally see the light!

    Tell me – how is it that four full years after the 2016 Clinton debacle, and in the immediate aftermath of an election campaign (against Donald Trump!!!) that went so badly that we may not know the result for weeks … or months … we still have to endure all this Jean-splaining about how none of us really gets it, and lecturing us about how we still “have a lot of work to do?”

  70. Bob
    Posted November 4, 2020 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    Biden likely wins but so what? The fact that the Dems can’t decisevly take the senate amidst the worst candidate in history, in the the worst crises we’ve ever seen, is nothing short of failure. There’s no other way to view it. Keep reaching for mediocre middle Jean and company.

  71. News
    Posted November 4, 2020 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

    FWIW, Bob.

    As of noon today, Joe Biden is up to 69.9 million votes, surpassing Obama’s record for the most votes of anyone who has ever run for president.

  72. Posted November 4, 2020 at 1:39 pm | Permalink

    It always cracks me up when a segment of the party that can’t get the votes in the primary season thinks that they would have somehow magically gotten the votes in a general election. But ok, you keep thinking that if it makes you feel better. I would have been thrilled btw had Sanders’s political revolution worked out but it very clearly did not.

    Biden can still win of course but will not have the Senate support to do much. I guess that is better than nothing.

  73. Anonymous
    Posted November 4, 2020 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    All who dare to criticize the democrats from the left, take heed! We are not in the approved critique period. After all, Biden got 69.9 million votes – such a large number means he is beyond reproach. Stop sowing discord! ;)

    Also, critique should take place in private:

    and only the qualified should be involved:

  74. Demetrius
    Posted December 1, 2020 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

    Matt Taibbi: With Tanden Choice, Democrats Stick it to Sanders Voters

    The appointment of a longtime anti-Sanders troll to the Biden government is an impressively petty end zone dance by Democrats celebrating the crushing of their left flank


  75. Jean Henry
    Posted December 1, 2020 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

    Demetrius– I can’t believe you take Matt Tabibi seriously. Amazing.

  76. Jean Henry
    Posted December 1, 2020 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

    I can’t believe the purity tests go on… Truly disappointing. We have a pluralistic society and ideally qualified people who disagree will be appointed to important posts. Christ.

  77. Posted December 1, 2020 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

    This is an interesting little factoid. 1) It shows how important mail in voting is at increasing voter participation. 2) How diabolical the Dems were in fixing the election for Biden—though if you read the whole article you realize it was more people voting Democrat in the west and north of the state that gave him the margin. Biden’s margin in Detroit only accounts for 1000 vote difference out of the 165000 swing in votes between 2016-2020 (Trumps 11000 vote win versus Biden’s 154000 win).

    “In actuality, Trump earned about 5,000 more votes from Detroiters this year than he did in 2016. Biden earned about 6,000 more votes than Hillary Clinton did in Detroit four years ago, according to official results from the city. ”


  78. Demetrius
    Posted December 1, 2020 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    Yes, I do take Matt Taibbi seriously. I consider him a true journalist, and I genuinely appreciate his even-handed approach to calling out bullshit from wherever it originates, from the right and left – and even from within the Democratic Party.

    Jean – did you even read the article? This isn’t about having “purity tests,” it’s about how so far, the new Biden Administration is shaping up to be mostly the same old Clinton hacks and other Washington insiders, and how they seem to be so thrilled to have actually (barely) won the White House that they are conveniently forgetting all the other big losses up and down the ballot – from the Senate, to the House, State Legislatures, etc., and consequently doubling-down on the same failed ideas (and people).

    As Taibbi puts it:

    ” .. How bad is it? Appointments like Janet Yellen, John Kerry and, yes, even Tanden are being lauded as picks likely to be “welcomed by progressives.” The rest of Biden’s team feels like absolute continuity with the last three decades of Wall Street-friendly Democratic politics, with the appointment of Black Rock veteran Brian Deese to serve as chief economic adviser being just one example.

    The difference between conventional Democrats and the Sanders movement is that Democrats never allowed themselves to view Sanders and his followers as anything but threats that needed squashing. They were never tempted, even for a moment, to take the idea of a Sanders presidency seriously. Sanders was loyal in the end to the party that made a mission of destroying him, and now gets Neera Tanden up the keister as the first installment in what is sure to be a long program of repayment for the sin of running without permission. Welcome to the eternal law of American politics, where no crime is punished more harshly than being a good loser.”

    For the 100th time – I don’t think Bernie was a perfect candidate, and I’m certainly no “bro,” but I do believe the energy and enthusiasm (and cash) he was able to generate represents something major that the Democratic Party seeks to disown at its own peril. The 2022 campaign has effectively already started, and I’m hoping the last two years of Biden’s (or Harris’) presidency won’t be hobbled by having to contend with a Republican House (and possibly Senate) – not to mention all the redistricting that is likely to follow this year’s Republican gains in many state legislatures. To that end, I think there is time to broaden the tent, and build the base of the party … but so far, I’m not very hopeful.

  79. Anonymous
    Posted December 1, 2020 at 4:25 pm | Permalink



  80. Lynne
    Posted December 1, 2020 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

    And you think that a misogynist like Taibbi is going to broaden the tent?

  81. Anonymous
    Posted December 1, 2020 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    A fair criticism, Lynne. Matt Taibbi should appoint better people to the Biden cabinet, I agree.

  82. Lynne
    Posted December 1, 2020 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    I think Taibbi’s sexism and rhetoric are damaging. I also mostly like Biden’s appointments even though not every single one of them is perfectly aligned with my views.

    Seriously. Yes, the energy and money Sanders brought to the party was something but as someone who donated a LOT of money to Sanders in 2015-2016 and who was subsequently completely turned off to Sanders because of men like Taibbi, I am not sure he is the best spokesman for the progressive wing of the party.

  83. Anonymous
    Posted December 1, 2020 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    As the spokesman for the progressive wing of the party he should absolutely know better than to level this sort of criticism against the party. How do you rise to the level of spokesman without understanding that, ffs. His sexism and rhetoric against the appointment of Nerra Tanden sicken me.

  84. Jean Henry
    Posted December 1, 2020 at 6:20 pm | Permalink

    Demetrius— I’ve seen Twitter feed and a few interviews and I don’t need to see more. What kind of cabinet did you expect Biden to appoint when a likely GOP senate must approve the candidates? Taibbi knows Biden is picking qualified experienced people who stand a chance of being approved. He’s using this moment for political gain as the new DCC chair etc are being chosen. You are being played. As usual he gets his readers worked up by playing to their narrative and not providing larger context. My objection to him is not about his sexism really. It’s the way he uses sexism and anything at his disposal to further his political agenda which is exactly the kind of bro progressivism he claims doesn’t exist— no ‘identity politics’, overplaying ‘cancel culture’ to gain advantage, all about economic equity and nothing else, not a big tent guy— oh and Russian collusion was a hoax.

    I will read it and if my POV on him changes, I’ll let you know.

  85. Lynne
    Posted December 1, 2020 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

    Jean, I think there is a very good chance the Senate will not confirm Tanden. She is not popular with the GOP.

  86. Demetrius
    Posted December 1, 2020 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

    “Taibbi knows Biden is picking qualified experienced people who stand a chance of being approved.”

    A perfect case in point: Why is it that Trump (who won the presidency much more narrowly than Biden, while actually losing the popular vote) was nevertheless able to have a cabinet that was a literal “dream team” of right-wing ideologues and voracious billionaires … Mnuchin, DeVoss, Wolf, Barr … some of whom were never even formally confirmed! Yet, for some reason, Biden must now be careful to choose only nominees that Republicans might possibly, hopefully, approve?

    Biden won the election by a bigger margin, and higher popular vote than Trump. Why not be bold, and pick the cabinet you believe can actually transform the country and make a real difference in people’s lives? Why not claim the mandate you’ve been given, and seize your moment in history?

    Unfortunately, what I see shaping up is a tragic repeat of recent history. As soon as Obama was elected in 2008, Republicans were very clear that their #1 goal was to make him a one-term president. Despite this, Obama spent much of his first two years trying to compromise and foster bipartisanship … in the process, squandering away his once-in-a-lifetime mandate and wasting precious time – while ultimately failing to prosecute the Wall Street cretins who caused the 2008 financial crash, and trading an opportunity for single-payer healthcare in lieu of the lackluster ACA. The loss of faith and confidence (and hope) was incalculable, culminating in the devastating electoral losses in 201o, and subsequent down-ballot losses in the next several elections.

    Democrats need to think bigger, and be bolder. They need to stop hoping Republicans will “like” them, and concentrate on fighting for the American people. They need to get back to basics, fighting for kitchen table issues that make a difference in real peoples lives. But most of all, they need a thorough leadership house-cleaning …

  87. Anonymous
    Posted December 1, 2020 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

    Trump got his picks because Republicans control Senate confirmation process. Unless there is a miracle in Georgia, which I would like but am realistic about, Biden still has to run his candidates through a Republican controlled Senate. Also, based on performance of down ticket races where local Republicans outperformed Trump in certain key states, there was some ticket splitting for Biden amongst Republicans, so he has to speak to this constituency as well. Trump only had to play to the far Right.

  88. Anonymous
    Posted December 2, 2020 at 8:00 am | Permalink

    Only the best people. No election fraud.


  89. Anonymous
    Posted December 2, 2020 at 8:03 am | Permalink

    But grift found.


  90. Anonymous
    Posted December 2, 2020 at 8:06 am | Permalink

    Maybe this is when the indictments get released. Or is the deep state so deep that every person that Trump involves in unearthing it drowns in it and comes out zombified?

  91. Anonymous
    Posted December 2, 2020 at 8:12 am | Permalink


    Trump corporation defrauding working class people? Say it ain’t so!

  92. Anonymous
    Posted December 2, 2020 at 8:14 am | Permalink


    Parscale, who was fired from the campaign in July and later arrested in September in a video that quickly went viral, said that Trump’s attitude toward COVID 19 is to blame for his loss.

    Scorpion and the frog. Also not under news but entertainment.

  93. Posted December 2, 2020 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    We need to have a write-in campaign for Trump in the Georgia US Senate races. Hopefully that’s what EOS and Turnip are working on now that we don’t hear from them anymore.

  94. Posted December 2, 2020 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    You still have 5 days to establish residency and register to vote in Georgia’s runoff election. I think EOS moved into an evangelical church down in Macon on November 4, which is why we have not heard from him. HW, being a little slower on the uptake, and not being as well connected just recently relocated.
    I don’t know a single soul in Georgia, being dead, I might have been tempted.
    Being dead, pretty much wipes out whatever privilege one might have enjoyed while living. Most folks don’t even see the dead walking among us, ( we give those people other names to disassociate ourselves from them–essential worker is a new one).

  95. Jean Henry
    Posted December 2, 2020 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    Demetrius— you know the Senate needs to approve cabinet picks. AND THE house had no sat. And you know Trump had a GOP controlled Senate, and you still posted a long paragraph of a false equivalence.

    You really need to apply more political reality testing to your positions. That won’t allow you to call ppl who agree with you on most things moderates or worse anymore.

  96. Jean Henry
    Posted December 2, 2020 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    Lynne— re Tanden— I know. She’s getting the mouthy broad treatment from right and left bros. That’s why Taibbi targeted her. He wants to take her out for talking shit about Bernie.

  97. Demetrius
    Posted December 6, 2020 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    Washington Post: Neera Tanden, Biden’s pick for budget chief, runs a think tank backed by corporate and foreign interests

    “In her nine years helming Washington’s leading liberal think tank, Neera Tanden mingled with deep-pocketed donors who made their fortunes on Wall Street, in Silicon Valley and in other powerful sectors of corporate America.

    At formal pitches and swanky fundraisers, Tanden personally cultivated the bevy of benefactors fueling the $45 million to $50 million annual budget of the Center for American Progress.

    Now that President-elect Joe Biden has picked Tanden to run the Office of Management and Budget at the White House, her ties to some of the most powerful players in the U.S. economy are drawing scrutiny from some progressives and advocates for accountability in government.

    The OMB acts as the nerve center of the federal government, executing the annual spending plan, setting fiscal and personnel policy for agencies, and overseeing the regulatory process across the executive branch. As OMB director, Tanden would have a hand in policies that touch every part of the economy after years spent courting corporate and foreign donors. These regulatory decisions will have profound implications for a range of U.S. companies, dictating how much they pay in taxes, the barriers they face and whether they benefit from new stimulus programs.

    Between 2014 and 2019, CAP received at least $33 million in donations from firms in the financial sector, private foundations primarily funded by wealth earned on Wall Street and in other investment firms, and current or former executives at financial firms such as Bain Capital, Blackstone and Evercore, according to a Washington Post analysis of CAP’s donor disclosures and some of the foundations’ public tax filings.

    In the same time period, CAP received between $4.9 million and $13 million from Silicon Valley companies and foundations, including Facebook and founder Mark Zuckerberg’s philanthropic organization.


  98. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 6, 2020 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    So…..What you are saying is you do don’t like qualified and outspoken women because you are sexist.

  99. Jean Henry
    Posted December 6, 2020 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

    Demetrius– I strongly suggest you look into CAP and its work. It does in fact receive a lot of money from liberal donors in Silicon Valley etc. So do Black Lives Matter, the Brennan Center, the Rocky Mountain Institute, The Clinton Foundation, etc etc etc. The current economic structure is such that wealthy philanthropy and political action needs to fund progressive initiatives. (Political campaigns are different and get a lot more exposure and so can make a lot more in individual donations.) The issues CAP is seeking to address are those most critical to leveling out that inequity which we all agree must be addressed.

    I’m sure we’d all like to think that grassroots activism can get it all done. Anyone serious about progress knows that’s not the case.

    I hear a lot of criticism of the funding of CAP, but I don’t see much evidence that those donations actually direct the policy work of the organization to the interests of those donors. Please provide that evidence.

    FF you are being reductive and ridiculous. Both Lynne and I are capable of acknowledging and responding to serious criticism. This post amounts to the first one. And it’s far short of proving any malfeasance or undo corporate influence. I would also assume that Tanden would leave her post at CAP if she were to get the cabinet seat. What Demetrius posed is more of a question than an accusation.

  100. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 6, 2020 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

    “What Demetrius posed is more of a question than an accusation.“

    No shit Sherlock.

    Jean and Lynne assumed there were not valid criticisms of Tanden. That (mis) assumption was the basis of Jean and Lynn’s ridiculously empty response which was merely calling people “sexist” rather than defending Tanden from the criticism. That’s the point.

    Jean and Lynne call people names from a position of ignorance. They do it a lot.


  101. Demetrius
    Posted December 6, 2020 at 8:03 pm | Permalink

    I understand that Tanden’s organization is not unique in accepting money from foreign, corporate, and wealthy individual donors – and I’m not naive regarding how the Washington money game works.

    Clearly, Trump’s rhetoric about “draining the swamp” was always just propaganda meant to fire up the “base” … while at the same time he was busy stacking his cabinet and administration with right-wing idealogues, plutocrats and other cronies who were laser-focused on exploiting their positions to champion deregulation, tax cuts, and government contracts that favored them and theirs.

    That said, I do think many (most) Americans are genuinely sick and tired of seeing well-connected individuals and corporations having an out-sized influence on policy decisions that affect their individual, and our collective, well-being.

    If a change in administration means merely trading influence of one set of insider interests for another, what’s the point?

    Biden has an opportunity to show (to prove) that he wants to do things differently. One major way he can do that is to put more of a firewall between his administration and the many powerful interests who would love to have a seat at the table when/where major decisions are being made. Is that too much to ask?

  102. Jean Henry
    Posted December 6, 2020 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

    DEMETRIUS– you did not answer my question. Is there any actual indication that CAP functions to serve wealthy donors (like the entire GOP) rather than dismantle the systems of exclusion and create more equity as so many would like to see?

    If we try to operate outside of the money game then we will never get past the GOP.

    It seems you are once again making ideological points about what you would like instead of trying to assess whether Tanden shares your goals and aspirations for the country. This kind of ideological purity testing makes people on the left vulnerable to manipulation.

  103. Jean Henry
    Posted December 6, 2020 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

    FF–I never assumed there were not valid criticisms of Tanden, just that there have been none posed here. Lynne literally said there were valid criticisms . She should call you a liar.

  104. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 6, 2020 at 11:17 pm | Permalink

    Yes, Lynne did say there were valid criticisms AFTER I, for the hundredth time, exposes your cheap little game. Your game is to accuse people of sexism whenever you hear an opinion that does not fall in line with the narrative pushed on your narrow minded and low info twitter feeds.

    You admitted to not having read the article AFTER some of your smears were delivered. What does that tell you? You have no logic. Check it out.

  105. Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:00 am | Permalink

    Jean, the Center for American Progress is a prefect reflection of your values. I am sorry JH, I think they suck. The CAP has taken the lead at promoting an economic agenda directly at odds with the needs of the overwhelming majority of Americans.
    1)She has advocated repeatedly for cuts to Social Security.
    2) She was an active participant in the dismantling of Aid for Families with Dependent Children–her threat to SS is real–she has demonstrated that.
    3) She opposes single payer health care.
    4) She is a proponent of US intervention in other counties for the purpose of US wealth extraction.
    5) She is favor of fracking and putting off a sustainable solution to climate problems.

    All of these are right in line with JH’s thinking. JH has defended each of these propositions, so being in favor of a person like Tanden has very little to do with sex, does it JH? For Lynne, it is all about sex. It is that whole divide and rule strategy, the only game the ruling class knows how to play.
    The issue for all of us is, how do we get them to rule in our interest instead of the elite’s interest.

  106. Demetrius
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:59 am | Permalink

    Jean, are you seriously suggesting that foreign governments, corporations, and wealthy individuals gave hundreds of millions of dollars to this organization – and then expect absolutely nothing in return?

    I’m not suggesting Tanden’s organization is unique in this regard, just that its a particularly vivid example.

    What I am suggesting is that Democrats (and the new Biden administration) should be held to a higher standard than merely “both sides do it.”

    Again, while Trump’s “drain the swamp” schtick was nothing more than a cynical con-job, the sentiment that motivated millions of voters to support him because of it was (and is) very real.

    Building and maintaining a better firewall between the mechanics of policy implementation and the many powerfu$$ interests that seek to shape and control it is one major way that Democrats can actually demonstrate how/why voting for them makes a real difference, and could be an important step in rebuilding trust with key voting groups.

  107. Lynne
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    wobblie is one of those shitty guys who can’t accept any criticism and then tries to say that it is all about sex when the real issue is that he was posting a really sexist article where the only real criticism was Tanden’s affiliation with HRC. It isn’t ONLY about sexism to me. You just like to dismiss me that way because you don’t like it when women speak out with the audacity to call you out on your bullshit.

    NOW, after being told that sexist bullshit will not sway anyone, the more valid criticisms come out. Yes, FF *AFTER* I pointed out the flaws in the arguments being made.

    As for Tanden and CAP. I see the criticism but the reality is that unless we can do something about our policy, we are going to be stuck with people in charge who take big money. The question comes down to if she has been corrupted by it? Hard to say what is in someone else’s heart but I have not seen any real evidence of it. I am less worried about her positions on things as she has evolved over time like many, including Biden himself. Her history helps in that I think she understands what it is like to be poor. I share her concerns about our deficit spending. She is absolutely correct that as a nation we are going to have to make some hard choices sooner or later. She really does know how our government works and thus is highly competent. Will she use that position to cut social welfare programs? I don’t know. From things she has said, she sounds like she may be just as open to cutting military spending. That email that Gabbard posted convinced me that she might. I do wonder who Biden may have as a second choice.

  108. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    The criticisms of Tanden are common knowledge. The criticism of Tanden is already pre-understood. The criticisms of Tandem are the shared context of the readers of the article. We are sexist because you are ignorant? We are sexist because you “like” Tanden. We are sexist because you are not aware that people have had valid criticisms of Tanden for years? We are sexist because you are not aware that there is a shared UNDERSTANDING about Tanden amongst most of the readers of the article?

  109. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 11:37 am | Permalink

    I definitely fall outside the target the audience of the Taibbi article. I still understand the point of the article. Why doesn’t Lynne take some time off with her silly defensive maneuvers and try to broaden her knowledge so that she is in a position to understand what others are even saying. Wouldn’t that be a better use of Lynne’s time?

  110. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    Your arguments are ridiculous. Be embarrassed! Let the embarrassment be the starting point of a new life for yourself! Live differently! What you are doing now is not working for you. It didn’t work yesterday. Tomorrow is not looking so good either.

  111. Anonymous
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 12:12 pm | Permalink

    Did anyone hear a noise? Did Giuliani fart again?

  112. Lynne
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    hahaha. I don’t know what it says about me but I didn’t even notice the fart until SNL was making fun of it this weekend. Then I watched the footage again. I guess I was distracted by all of the drunken testimony!

  113. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

    In honor of HW I just want to say: “Derp”.

    (I hope I did it right.)

  114. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

    It is a cleverly constructed comment and it would be funny too if there was a kernel of truth. I do not know how jokes work and my parents did not meet at Harvard but I am pretty sure the kernel of untruth, which is the basis of your jokes, makes your joke less funny.

  115. Posted December 7, 2020 at 10:12 pm | Permalink

    President Trump asks Pennsylvania House speaker for help overturning election results


  116. Posted December 7, 2020 at 10:18 pm | Permalink

    Were HW and EOS at Jocelyn Benson’s house with their assault rifles? Were you, FF?

  117. Posted December 7, 2020 at 10:36 pm | Permalink

    Oh that’s right, you don’t do things like that do you, FF. You just stand by silently while the guy you say is doing a good job as president incites lunatics like EOS and HW to do them. Your hands are clean.

  118. Jean Henry
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 11:05 pm | Permalink

    “Jean, are you seriously suggesting that foreign governments, corporations, and wealthy individuals gave hundreds of millions of dollars to this organization – and then expect absolutely nothing in return?”

    Demetrius– I’m suggesting if they were purely self-interested they would be funding Republicans not an organization committed to creating greater equity.

    And again, I asked for evidence and you provided not and neither did the Taibbi article. She said mean things about Bernie. That’s what this is about. That’s why she is being targeted by Taibbi et al on the left, assisting the efforts of the GOP.

    Great strategy for equity there…

  119. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 8, 2020 at 2:14 am | Permalink

    Good to hear from you iRobert. Could you summons EOS and iRobert for me? I miss those guys.

    I believe in peaceful protest. I do not believe in taking guns to protest. I want peaceful resolutions to problems. Having said that I believe this country has major issues with corruption, people are clues into it, and I believe we are on the brink of a massive outbreak of violence. We all have an obligation to to what we can to try to avoid that violence. You are smart. We need your brain toward that end.

    Because you know a lot about elections I was wondering if you have anything to say about Georgia, Fulton county, Ruby Freeman, Shaye Moss, Ralph Jones, Lawrence Sloan? If you want to look into it then I suggest you use a search engine other than google.

  120. Posted December 8, 2020 at 4:47 am | Permalink

    What don’t you understand about the Lawrence Sloan BS?

    Why An Election Worker In Georgia Went Into Hiding


  121. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 8, 2020 at 4:52 am | Permalink

    I think you can better.

  122. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 8, 2020 at 4:53 am | Permalink

    do better

  123. Posted December 8, 2020 at 4:56 am | Permalink

    Trump is a moron openly displaying his complete ignorance of basic aspects of our election system. He’s also openly displaying his incredibly stunted mental and emotional condition. But nothing about that concerns you. Is it a game to you to pretend this isn’t an absolute disaster and a very serious danger?

  124. Posted December 8, 2020 at 5:06 am | Permalink

    Sloan didn’t crumple up a ballot. It was a voting instruction sheet he crumpled up. Are you having trouble with that for some reason?

    Your moron President is the most ridiculous and dangers person to have ever occupied the White house, and you have nothing to say about it. All you can do is frantically grasp to bullshit which has fairly obvious explanations.

    The sick assholes you align yourself with are harassing and threatening people. You speak about it like it’s something people of all political leanings are doing.

    It doesn’t take a genius to see what straws you and your lunatic pals are grasping. Your absolute inability to address this makes you appear completely hopeless to me. I don’t take you any more seriously than I do the Q-anon loons anymore.

    Trump’s pathetic and bizarre display is going to do damage to the Republicans for as long as he is propped up by millions of loons. I’m glad of that. But the chaos his idiot supporters are inflicting upon our country is unforgivable.

  125. Posted December 8, 2020 at 5:14 am | Permalink

    The Sloan video was openly addressed across the board in the media, and the idiot that “narrated” his pretend expose is just another example of what morons Trunpanzees are. I saw others who were sure there was something nefarious about the people who’s job it is to check ballot envelopes to make sure nothing was still in them before disposing of them. Just because you idiots have apparently never been out of your fucking houses before, now the rest of us have to spend endless time explaining simple shit to you? Sorry, morons. Y’all Are going to have to learn the hard way…that is if any of you are actually capable of learning. I have my serious doubts at this point.

  126. Posted December 8, 2020 at 5:18 am | Permalink

    For the record, HW and EOS have disappeared because they are lunatics who’ve been spouting insanity here for years, and now their lunatic fantasies are taking them beyond the pale. I hope I encounter them in the real world soon. I will report every detail of their breakdown which I can ascertain.

  127. Posted December 8, 2020 at 5:28 am | Permalink

    Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss are idiots that don’t comprehend the open and observable aspect of the tabulating process. They are at about the same level of of idiocy as the Trunpanzees who are claiming to see all sorts of fraud. I can only imagine the sort of massive chaos that would have occurred if election workers were all as stupid as Trump supporters. We’d have absolute failure of the system.

  128. Posted December 8, 2020 at 5:32 am | Permalink

    By the way, where were all you morons in 2004? Still comfortably piled on the Turnip truck obviously.

  129. Posted December 8, 2020 at 5:42 am | Permalink

    Maybe HW and EOS have embarked on a great holy-grail-like quest to discover what competence looks like.

    Just kidding. It’s obvious those two crackpots are incapable of even the slightest self-improvement.

  130. Posted December 8, 2020 at 5:54 am | Permalink

    FF, you should pressure your GOP state legislators into conducting a full and open investigation and audit of the election. (Gee, I wonder why they aren’t already doing it.) Well, I’m sure you and your deeply patriotic pals will not give up until you fix every problem with our election system. The sincerity of your concern is so palpable. I can’t imagine it could possibly be hallow bullshit. I guess we’ll see soon enough.

  131. Posted December 8, 2020 at 6:07 am | Permalink

    Trump, now that he’s mad at America for rejecting him, is slowing considerably the process of getting vaccines to the general population. It’d be a shame if Trump’s malevolence ended up being the very factor that exposes our resident Trumpanzees to the virus. The Lord works in mysterious ways.

  132. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 8, 2020 at 6:26 am | Permalink

    I agree with iRobert. Sloan was not crumpling up a ballot.

  133. Posted December 8, 2020 at 6:29 am | Permalink

    Trump, in his treasonous tantrum, pulled the US out of the Open Skies Treaty, leaving our allies vulnerable to the potential amassing of invasion forces by our adversaries. Trump did this simply to create problems. A president of the United States is undermining global stability because he’s mad at America for rejecting him.

    But let’s talk about Jean.

  134. Posted December 8, 2020 at 7:01 am | Permalink

    John Barr Jr. was an election worker before, briefly. He had to be removed because he was demonstrating what a crazy asshole he is. Imagine the enormous job of trying to sort through the John Barr, Jrs of the world in order to find reasonably competent, ethical and sane election workers. It’s no easy task. Emotionally stunted freaks inevitably get in.

  135. Sad
    Posted December 8, 2020 at 8:57 am | Permalink

    Is HW really gone?

    When is Mayor Oete going to get nominated for something?

    I’m on pins and needles.

  136. Posted December 8, 2020 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    Mayor Pete is being considered for a number of cabinet posts. I would rather see him take a party leadership position because he’s really good at cutting through the bullshit and getting to the essence of any discussion. He’s been kicking Trumpanzee ass in his Fox News appearances and elsewhere. I feel like most cabinet posts would be underutilizing his greatest talent, which is sparring with Trumpanzees.

  137. Posted December 8, 2020 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    Until the Ypsilanti City Attorney publicly announces his institutionalization, we can never be sure his Q-anon crazed son won’t be returning to this blog.

    He probably busy looking up home addresses for election workers and planning Trumpanzee Kristallnacht.

  138. Posted December 8, 2020 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    Maybe HW is in an ICU fighting with nurses who are trying to convince him he has COVID-19. But he knows better. He knows the tests are too sensitive. Hopefully they’ll hit the body with bright light and somehow use disinfectant internally.

  139. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 8, 2020 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    I hope HW is not sick.

  140. Lynne
    Posted December 8, 2020 at 2:44 pm | Permalink

    I hope he isn’t sick too but it seems more likely that he and EOS are off somewhere like Parlor. That is where all the horrible people on my FB feed seem to be hanging out. Since the election, my social media has been so much nicer!

  141. Posted December 8, 2020 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    He can’t be sick, FF. The positive tests are a hoax. You haven’t heard?

  142. Posted December 8, 2020 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    …and it’s after the election. We don’t hear about the pandemic anymore, just as that genius president of yours predicted.

  143. Posted December 8, 2020 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

    It’s disappeared, like a miracle.

  144. Posted December 8, 2020 at 10:16 pm | Permalink

    Based on his Facebook page post, John Barr, Jr. feels there is comedy in the assassination of President Kennedy and the possibility of our next president as well. So I think it’s ok to make jokes about him getting COVID-19 and fighting with the nurses about itvbeing a hoax. I feel it’s in line with his sense of humor. I didn’t want anyone to think I’m a monster.

  145. Posted December 8, 2020 at 10:19 pm | Permalink

    Now Texas’ Attorney General has filed a lawsuit against multiple swing states regarding their elector selection processes. The case was filed by the AG of Texas so that it could go straight to the supreme court.

  146. Posted December 8, 2020 at 10:30 pm | Permalink

    Ken Paxton asks Supreme Court to block Joe Biden victory in 4 battleground states


  147. Posted December 8, 2020 at 10:57 pm | Permalink

    The rank hypocrisy of the Texas AG’s election case


  148. Posted December 8, 2020 at 11:21 pm | Permalink

    “Paxton, who has been indicted on securities fraud and accused by top aides of bribery, abuse of office and other potentially criminal offenses…”

    This is the sort of person who will participate in the Trump election fraud farce.

  149. Posted December 9, 2020 at 12:42 am | Permalink

    Our political leaders can’t agree on much, but

    “The 335 to 78 vote represents a bigger margin of victory for the bill than the House mustered for an earlier version of the legislation this summer. House leaders credit the increased support to changes that were made during a months-long negotiation process between the Senate and House, despite Trump’s exhortations to House Republicans to vote against the bill. The House’s vote sets up a challenge for the Senate, which has yet to vote on the legislation. Should senators approve the bill by a similarly decisive margin, leaders are hopeful the president will reconsider his veto threat.

    GOP congressional leaders pleaded with their members in recent days to ignore the president’s demands, and vote in favor of the defense bill, which has become law for 59 years running. ”

    This will mark the 60th. year since that all American Dwight’s warning–
    what is the elephant in the room?

  150. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 9, 2020 at 6:01 am | Permalink

    “Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss are idiots that don’t comprehend the open and observable aspect of the tabulating process. “—iRobert

    Maybe it’s the pandemic but you obviously have not been to McDonald’s lately.

    Lawrence Sloan: Dishwasher/Janitor
    Ruby Freeman : Fry cook
    Yellow shirt red head wrap: counter/ drive through
    Shaye Moss: assistant Manager
    Ralph Jones: Manager
    Carter Jones: Culinary artist?

  151. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 9, 2020 at 6:09 am | Permalink

    Where’s the beef?

  152. Posted December 9, 2020 at 6:37 am | Permalink

    Does it surprise you somehow, FF, that people who work at McDonald’s would be election workers? What is the point you are trying to make?

  153. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 9, 2020 at 6:42 am | Permalink

    Avoid the noid

  154. Posted December 9, 2020 at 6:53 am | Permalink

    So you won’t answer that question?

    I assume you were emphasizing that these McDonald’s employees may not be too bright. I’d agree. But was there a further point you were making?

  155. Posted December 9, 2020 at 6:56 am | Permalink

    What are your thoughts regarding the pandemic relief bill, Wobblie is posting about?

  156. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 9, 2020 at 7:09 am | Permalink

    I am saying the exact opposite of your assumptions actually.

    Where’s the beef?

  157. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 9, 2020 at 7:12 am | Permalink

    I didn’t read Wobblie’s statement so no comment.

  158. Posted December 9, 2020 at 7:12 am | Permalink

    You should see if you can join Giuliani’s legal team, FF. “Where’s the beef?” and “Avoid the Noid” are points about as good as any of those made in the cases they’ve filed challenging the election so far.

  159. Posted December 9, 2020 at 7:14 am | Permalink

    Your vagueness would fit in well on the Giuliani team.

  160. Posted December 9, 2020 at 7:16 am | Permalink

    Wobblie, do you anticipate a veto from the saboteur-in-Chief?

  161. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 9, 2020 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    Ok. Just glanced at Wobblie’s comment. I have spoken about the elephant in the room here within the last week.

    There are actually 2 elephants in the room Wobblie is talking about. I hinted at the other elephant in the room this week.

    Wobblie, Tulsi and OTHERS make sense on this.

    Where’s the beef?

  162. Posted December 9, 2020 at 7:25 am | Permalink

    You deserve a break today, FF.

  163. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 9, 2020 at 7:26 am | Permalink

    I am trying to figure out a way to make people like you hungry.

    Where’s the beef?

  164. Posted December 9, 2020 at 7:28 am | Permalink

    Wobblie, what is your position regarding Trump’s withdrawal from the Open Skies Treaty?

  165. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 9, 2020 at 7:29 am | Permalink

    I think you were not here but I witnessed Wobblie taking Lynne by her baby hand on this subject last week. He helped her across the road but like a good father he let her roam once they crossed the road. I think she is on the play structure right now.

    Avoid the noid

  166. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 9, 2020 at 7:40 am | Permalink

    Wikipedia: “the Noid was a physical manifestation of all the challenges inherent in getting a pizza delivered in 30 minutes or less.”

  167. Posted December 9, 2020 at 7:41 am | Permalink

    Bringing to mind Wendy’s, Donino’s and McDonalds turns my stomach actually. I hope you aren’t eating that shit. You’ll put yourself in an early grave.

  168. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 9, 2020 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    I personally believe that the noid was described by wikipedia (via a google search) in too narrow of a way.

    I experimented with another search engine and it led me to a deeper and more expansive understanding of the noid.


  169. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 9, 2020 at 7:56 am | Permalink

    The important thing is that we stay hungry for the right things. And that we stay hungry. Most men die twice. Avoid the noid.


  170. Posted December 9, 2020 at 7:58 am | Permalink

    You don’t have to sell me on the idea. I’m already convinced you should be on Giuliani’s team, FF. You’re style is perfect for the sort of arguments being made in the election challenges.

  171. Posted December 9, 2020 at 7:59 am | Permalink

    I don’t know what Sad’s problem is with you, FF. I think you’re a delight.

  172. Posted December 9, 2020 at 8:01 am | Permalink

    You should eat a healthier diet though.

  173. Posted December 9, 2020 at 8:07 am | Permalink

    Bad news, FF. The Supreme Court denied the Texas AG’s filing to overturn the election.

  174. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 9, 2020 at 8:24 am | Permalink

    Yahoo! News

  175. Posted December 9, 2020 at 8:32 am | Permalink

    Trumps withdrawal from the open sky treaty is stupid, as was his withdrawal from the Joint Plan of Action treaty with Iran, his withdrawal from the Paris Accords, the Intermediate Nuclear Arms treaty and his refusal to negotiate an extension of NEW START, stupid stupid stupid. But he was just following other Republicans after all it was Bush II who withdrew from the ABM treaty.

    The Russians have a word for American foreign policy since they use a different alphabet I can’t type it–but the translation means–unable to stick to an agreement.

    Our stupid ruling elite has boxed us into a very bad future. Why would China or Russia or Iran bother with negotiating a deal, that we consistently demonstrate that we are unable or unwilling to keep?

  176. Posted December 9, 2020 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    Are you an OAN or a Newsmax guy, FF?

    Supreme Court rejects GOP bid to nullify Biden win in Pennsylvania


  177. Posted December 9, 2020 at 8:38 am | Permalink

    I’m relieved, Wobblie. I was worried you’d see withdrawing from the Open Sky Treaty as a way to show we trust China.

  178. Posted December 9, 2020 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    As an aside. Bob Dylan selling his life work for hundreds of millions of dollars is a prime example of why China will move right past the US and leave us a wretched broke country controlled by small minded plutocrats.

    When the US was created, we provided copywrite protection (ie. intellectual property right protection we call it now) for 14 years with a single one time extension of up to 14 additional years. The Berne Convention, another one of those pesky international treaties, limits copywrite protection to between 25 and 50 years. Our 1998 Mickey Mouse amendment to the copywrite laws extends private ownership of intellectual property for more than 100 years—Blowing in the Wind will not be in the public domain until nearly the end of this century–as if it is not public now—

    It is our ruling elite’s desire to control our collective intellectual property (and profit off of it) which has caused most of the breakdown in trade negotiations with China.

  179. Anonymous
    Posted December 9, 2020 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    Anyone else here wondering if iRobert is somehow involved in HW’s and EOS’s disappearances?”

  180. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 9, 2020 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    Generally I am more of a raw footage kind of guy. Last week I was more of a cctv kind of guy. I have hovered over Russia with google earth for hours and hours before. I used to watch a lot of cspan. I was on a CGTN kick for awhile at the beginning of the covid. It is Chinese propaganda as far as I can tell but still interesting. It depends. I have an intentionally balanced approach. By far the fakest news comes from the media arms of Democrats. Lefty and righty media is far superior to Dem media. It’s not even close. I would advise most of the people on MM to stop relying it.

    Regarding Newsmax. I have watched Greg Kelley a half dozen times. Nothing earth shattering but he seemed a million times less crazy than Rachel Maddow of MM, for example. I can’t comment on OAN. I heard they got suspended by youtube recently.

  181. Posted December 9, 2020 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    I’ve flipped around to every ‘news’ source I can find. I generally try to check every source against a few others which tend to push competing narratives. The BS is flying fast and furiously these days, and in various quantities from pretty much every source.

    With regard to the disappearances of HW and EOS,
    I deny any involvement, Anonymous. Further inquiries should be directed to my lawyer.

  182. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 9, 2020 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    Regarding military funds and 230 protections. I think they should take the military funding and transfer it to tens of thousands of lawyers for the purpose of sueing the pants off Facebook, youtube, Twitter and google. Crush them. The information war is real. I haven’t watched Alex Jones because he seems wildly crazy to me but the naming of his media outfit was prescient.

  183. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 9, 2020 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    If youtube is admitting to having taken steps to suppressing info then google has the suppression dial turned up to 100.

    Time to wake up folks. Your big prize for going along with all of this is an old, white, partly racist, corrupt, dotard.

  184. Posted December 9, 2020 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

    Yeah, but he will be leaving in 40 days or so.

  185. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 9, 2020 at 3:41 pm | Permalink


  186. Posted December 9, 2020 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    …and you forgot to mention emotionally and mentally stunted, lazy, incompetent, obnoxious, morally degenerate, learning disabled, dishonest, vocabulary challenged and conman.

  187. Posted December 9, 2020 at 3:54 pm | Permalink


  188. stupid hick
    Posted December 9, 2020 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

    So much uninformed anti fast food microaggression on this blog. I command big $$$$ for my fast food expertise, but I will give you a complimentary tip although my premium subscribers who may be reading this will not be pleased. Wendy’s new breakfast burrito is good tasting and a good value for $1.39. Combine with a coupon for a free breakfast baconator sandwich with any purchase and it’s an exceptional value.

  189. Posted December 10, 2020 at 7:28 am | Permalink

    Sounds great! Give us the details regarding ingredients and nutrition, Stupid Hick.

  190. Posted December 10, 2020 at 7:33 am | Permalink

    Wait a minute. I got it. Calcium Propionate? Yum!

    Pre-Cooked Scrambled Eggs (Whole Eggs, Skim Milk, Soybean Oil, Corn Starch, Salt, Xanthan Gum, Citric Acid), Fully Cooked Pork Sausage Crumbles (Pork, Water, Contains Less Than 2% Spices, Dextrose, Salt, Sugar), Flour Tortilla (Bleached Enriched Wheat Flour [Wheat Flour, Malted Barley Flour, Niacin, Reduced Iron, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid], Water, Blend of Vegetable Oils [Soybean Oil, Fully Hydrogenated Cottonseed Oil], Glycerine, Potato Starch with Monoglyceride, Contains 2% or less of the following: Baking Powder [Sodium Acid Pyrophosphate, Sodium Bicarbonate, Corn Starch, Monocalcium Phosphate], Salt, Sugar, Mono and Diglycerides, Calcium Propionate [Preservative], Fumaric Acid, and L-Cysteine [used as dough conditioner]), Process American Cheese Slice (Milk, Water, Cream, Sodium Citrate, Salt, Contains Less than 2%: Annatto [Color], Apocarotenal and Beta Carotene [Color], Cheese Culture, Citric Acid, Enzymes, Lactic Acid, Oleoresin Paprika [Color], Sorbic Acid [Preservative], Soy Lecithin, and Sunflower Lecithin). CONTAINS: EGG, MILK, SOY, WHEAT.

  191. Posted December 10, 2020 at 7:43 am | Permalink

    On a completely unrelated topic…

    Chadwick Boseman had colon cancer, a disease rising in young adults


  192. Posted December 10, 2020 at 8:37 am | Permalink

    My wife, (who is very very much smarter than me) the biologist with micro and genetics education and training, points out that the younger generation is the first generation to have consumed GMO’s for most of their lives. She is not knee jerk in her skepticism. She does understand just how complex our biological make up is, and how little we actually know. Between corn syrup and soy being added to almost all processed foods that we eat, the amount of GMO foods most Americans consume is enormous. Despite our knowing that whole foods are more nutritious, the life style most of us slaves are forced to endure, makes having a healthy and nutritious diet almost impossible to maintain.
    My death was caused by that life style, bad diet and stress. Given this she is very skeptical of the new vaccine. Crisper technology was used to develop it, but given our ignorance of the complex interrelated feedback loops and the short development time side effects and negative long term consequences are barely known. She is hoping that the Oxford vaccine get approved, nearly as effective as Pfizer’s but based on tried and tested methodology and a lot cheaper than the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines (the Brits have stopped giving the Pfizer vaccine to those with allergies, they have a number of deaths from anaphylactic shock already evidently)..

    You see iRobert–everything is related at some level.
    America is exceptional, we have diseases and epidemics that occur no where else–MAGA.

  193. Posted December 10, 2020 at 8:55 am | Permalink

    I love how our rulers describe their failures. Musk’s SpaceX High Altitude rocket crashed and exploded Wed. when it attempted it landing maneuver. Musk said, “”Successful ascent, switchover to header tanks & precise flap control to landing point!” Musk wrote on Twitter. “Fuel header tank pressure was low during landing burn, causing touchdown velocity to be high & [rapid unscheduled disassembly],..!!”

    a crash landing is a” rapid unscheduled disassembly”, I am sure Pfizer will have clever ways to describe the unanticipated adverse reactions to its vaccine. MAGA

  194. stupid hick
    Posted December 10, 2020 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    As iRobert has illustrated, the breakfast baconator is precisely-engineered out of many carefully-calibrated ingredients selected by Wendy’s top nutrition scientists. But if qualitative ingredient analysis is too complicated to understand, calories per dollar is a simple and practical key metric to inform your fast food decisions. And this is where Wendy’s breakfast burrito and FREE (with coupon) breakfast baconator really stands out. For $1.39 you get 1000 meaty calories, 240 from the burrito and a whopping 760 from the baconator. What a good deal.

  195. Jean Henry
    Posted December 10, 2020 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    Wobblie— your wife is an anti-science nut job. I don’t give a shit about her ‘training.’

  196. Posted December 10, 2020 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    Still, Jean, I’m sure we’d prefer her to Wobblie. So don’t be too rough on her.

  197. Posted December 10, 2020 at 9:36 am | Permalink

    JH, very funny. I love your highly intellectual humor. Some day you will need to explain it to me.
    A note from a truck driver,
    “I picked up a load in Bloomington IL, bound to Jonestown PA. The manifest showed I was close to my 80k gross weight limit, but coupled with the reading of my internal trailer suspension air pressure at the dock, I should have been well within my limits.

    As soon as I left my rig felt a bit heavier then it should, so I decided to verify at the nearest Pilot’s truck scale enroute to my drop, but 75 miles east. I was 100lbs over my gross which I might get away with if I felt lucky, but I was 1,000 over weight on my drive axels though I had adjusted the balance all the way to my rear axels. That is a guaranteed ticket, shut down, and expense of having to hire a crew, and another truck to transfer the excess weigh on.

    I returned, the load got reworked and instead of 75 back miles to the same Pilot’s truck stop, I pulled into a much closer Loves truck stop where I’d have to pay for the scale out of pocked instead of using my Pilot’s corporate card. I sat on the scale and pressed the intercom button waited then repeated the process several times without getting a response from the staff.

    I walked up to the entrance and the store looked normal, but the doors were locked. I returned to my truck and out of an abundance of caution I dialed 911, told the officer that answered that I wasn’t sure if there was an actual emergency, but they might want to check on the midnight crew. With in a few minutes I got a call from a clerk, and she told me they didn’t want me to think that no one rolled to check on the staff.

    They aren’t coming out because they contacted the store manager’s emergency number, and he told them they had too many of their staff out with COVID to fill all three shifts.

    This was the first time in almost 9 years of driving, I came across a major truckstop unmanned.
    It is also the first incident that touches my redline regarding working through this pandemic.

    I told myself that I will quit when the infrastructure required to remain driving, warehouse, fuel stops etc., starts breaking down. I’ll keep going for now, but this is the first indication that the national supply chain is starting fail.” MAGA

  198. Posted December 10, 2020 at 9:45 am | Permalink


    “Pfizer had excluded people with a history of significant adverse reaction to vaccines or its vaccine’s ingredients from late-stage trials.”

  199. Posted December 10, 2020 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    Taiwan Shrugs Off Pandemic to Deliver Surprise Growth


  200. Posted December 10, 2020 at 10:43 am | Permalink

    iRobert, JH is the most perceptive person on this site. Having had 0 interactions with my wife (only knowing what she knows 2nd. hand from a dolt like me), she can identify her as an “anti-science nut job”. One of my wife’s main attractors to me, I admit, has always been her luddite tendencies. She of course hides her nefarious activities behind the scientific precautionary principle.
    Full speed a head. We have our magic bullet, it would be wrong not to use it. MAGA

  201. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 10, 2020 at 10:57 am | Permalink

    I think Jean is just pretending the vaccine is a great idea for everyone so she will not need to take it. She is clever that way.

  202. Posted December 10, 2020 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    That’s what I’m doing, FF. So, yes, I wouldn’t be surprised.

  203. Lynne
    Posted December 10, 2020 at 11:32 am | Permalink

    I am not sure if wobblie’s wife is a nut job but the way he portrays her opinions about things like GMOs and vaccines makes it understandable that someone might come to that conclusion. It is entirely possible that her actual opinions are more nuanced!

    That Wendy’s deal sounds pretty good, SH. I didn’t even know Wendy’s did breakfast! I think GrubHub delivers which is good because now that the Bomber has closed, I am looking for breakfast options!

  204. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 10, 2020 at 11:38 am | Permalink

    Boil an egg and stfu, iRobert!

  205. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 10, 2020 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    And get vaccinated, dumbfucks!

  206. Posted December 10, 2020 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    You should go suck Trump’s dick, FF. You both need it.

  207. Posted December 10, 2020 at 11:42 am | Permalink

    Help him through this difficult time. You owe him that much.

  208. Posted December 10, 2020 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    C’mon. Trump needs a friend, and you, unlike Stormy, have demonstrated that you can be discrete.

  209. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 10, 2020 at 11:58 am | Permalink

    Typical response from someone who is bigoted against hard boiled eggs. Horrible person.

  210. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 10, 2020 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    I am going to be offline until later tonight. I don’t want you to misinterpret my silence, iRobert. I have enjoyed our strange exchanges lately. For real. Funny stuff.


  211. Posted December 10, 2020 at 12:01 pm | Permalink

    Ok then, just think of it as a hard boiled egg, if that helps.

    Stormy saw it as Toady from Mario Cart. Maybe that’s just because she’s a gamer.

  212. Posted December 10, 2020 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    Say “hi” to Trump for us.

  213. Posted December 10, 2020 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

    Trump seems depressed and is doing little work apart from pursuing his election fraud claims, report says


  214. Posted December 10, 2020 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

    I wonder if JH can tell us the reason our agri-industry uses GMO crops? I believe, correct me when I am wrong please, that the primary reason we are genetical modifying corn and soybeans is to make them resistant to the deleterious effects of using high quantities of pesticides and herbicides (round-up ready, thankyou Monsanto) on these crops-thus increasing crop yields. We know that humans can also suffer deleterious effects from exposure to high levels of pesticides and herbicides. We know that the use of these substances has increased several fold as more and more production becomes monopolized in fewer hands and as food production becomes more and more vertically integrated.
    There is a scientific debate currently being waged on the interactions between the use of GMO’s, high use of chemical agents in their production, and the rapid increase in food allergies, gastrointestinal afflictions and other potential health effects of consuming these foods over many years.
    I suppose folks who are trying to understand and evaluate these interconnections are “anti-science nuyjobs” aren’t they JH?

    The scientific precautionary principle would have required Monsanto to engage in the necessary research so we would know the answers to these questions before we started experimenting with peoples health. But there is serious money to be made, and this is the Exceptional USA, MAGA

  215. Lynne
    Posted December 10, 2020 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

    Yes, as expected, wobblie, more nuanced!

  216. stupid hick
    Posted December 10, 2020 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

    Lynne, I am sorry to hear about the Bomber. Classic archetypal Ypsilanti cuisine. I hope they really do come back, as they claim they will, if things ever come back to normal. In the meantime pay attention to the fast food coupons you get in the mail. Not only for the deals, but because they represent ephemeral material culture emblematic of our times. But cultural and historical value aside, I never buy a flagship menu item unless I have a coupon. IMO, that is how to succeed at the fast food game.

  217. Anonymous
    Posted December 10, 2020 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    Haven’t had large chain fast food in quite some time. The Bellflower sandwiches are really good, especially the pork.

  218. Posted December 10, 2020 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

    I have shifted significantly my expenditures in favor of local small businesses. My goal is to shift to the maximum degree possible. I want to see my neighbors keep their jobs, homes and savings.

  219. Posted December 10, 2020 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

    Georgia elections chief says Trump ‘suppressed’ GOP vote, cost himself state


  220. Posted January 8, 2021 at 6:14 am | Permalink

    In January of 2017 the GOP had control of the White House, The US Senate and the US House of Representatives. Trump has been “wildly successful” in losing all three in the least possible time.

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