Whitmer says that she’s “prepared to take heat” and impose new restrictions if COVID-19 cases keep rising

While things aren’t as bad as they were a few months ago, when we were the fourth worst state in the nation relative to the spread of COVID-19, the curve here in Michigan has started to turn in the wrong direction over the past several days, and public health officials are becoming concerned. 454 new COVID-19 cases were confirmed in Michigan today, and another 10 people have lost their lives. [We’ve lost at least 6,005 people to the infectious respiratory disease since March.] And, as a result, Governor Gretchen Whitmer is talking about the possibility of imposing new resections.

“We’re going to continue to monitor the numbers,” the Governor said earlier today. “If they keep moving up, we’re going to dial back if we have to. That’s the last thing any of us want. I’ve got to tell you: I want to reengage this economy more than anyone, but I’m not going to do it if it is too risky to do so, and that’s why we’re seeing focus on the epidemiology. I’m not going to be bullied into moving before it’s safe, and if we have to move back, we’re going to.”

Whitmer went on to say, “We’ve done an incredible amount of work, and I would hate to think that this sacrifice that we have made would be made in vain because some people are losing interest or are dropping their guard. We’ve got to double down right now more than ever.”

And she reiterated this message on social media, again urging people to act responsibly, wear their masks, and not forget what’s at stake, using the current situation in Texas as example of what might happen if we stop taking this seriously.

Whitmer, for it’s worth, is absolutely right to warn that another shutdown may be in our future if we can’t get our shit together. As we’ve seen firsthand here in Ypsilanti, not every business owner took the responsibility of reopening seriously, and, as a result, things have started to move in the wrong direction, with more people — especially those between 20 and 29 years of age — becoming infected. [Almost 25% of COVID diagnoses in June were for people in the 20 to 29 age group. In May, this group represented just about 16% of the total.] Here in Michigan, we’ve already had to step back in and re-close bars in six of the state’s geographical regions, but it’s likely just a matter of time before other steps are taken to reemphasize social distancing.

Had we acted responsibly, gyms and theaters would probably be open right now, but, instead, we’re talking about moving back in the other direction, toward lockdown… and all because people can’t seem to be bothered to stay out of enclosed spaces, and wear their masks when in-doors. Instead though, many of us here in Michigan are focusing their energy on stopping our Governor from doing her job. Today, for instance, a group calling itself Unlock Michigan, got approval to launch a petition drive aimed at repealing a 1945 emergency powers law that has enabled Whitmer to take the public health actions noted above. [The 1945 legislation is titled, Emergency Powers of Governor Act.] GOP activist Fred Wszolek, who serves as spokesperson for the organization, said today that Whitmer no longer needs the power as, “the emergency has long since stopped.”

This, of course, is totally bullshit. The emergency has not stopped, and we have every reason to believe that it’s going to get worse over the coming months. But this is what we’re up against… I have no idea who is funding Unlock Michigan, but, if I had to guess, I’d say it’s probably not food workers, grocery employees, teachers and others who are being put in positions where they’re being forced to put their lives at risk. No, I think it’s pretty safe to assume that. the organization is being bankrolled by business owners who want to see the economy reopened with no consideration whatsoever to public health. And, of course, they hate the fact that Whitmer, unlike her predecessor, actually appears to have a spine, at the best interest of Michiganders at heart.

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68 Comments

  1. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 7, 2020 at 10:59 pm | Permalink

    I wish part of the stimulus package would be a doubling the pay of grocery workers and food processors. These people are heroic and should get paid very well during these times.

    I hate to be a drag but I just don’t think restaurants and bars can be done safely.

  2. John Brown
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 5:14 am | Permalink

    COVID present in Argo Cascades tubing crowd. No surprise there. See announcement from city:

    “Argo and Gallup Canoe Liveries Temporarily Closed Beginning July 7

    July 7, 2020 – ​Beginning Tuesday afternoon, July 7, 2020, City of Ann Arbor Parks and Recreation Argo and Gallup canoe liveries will be closed temporarily. The closure is due to a COVID-19 positive test result of an individual who, while pre-symptomatic, was at the liveries. Washtenaw County Public Health is deeming this a “low risk” event, but out of an abundance of caution, the facilities will be closed for a professional, disinfectant cleaning. The city has not identified any instance of this person having close contact with the public. More information on the reopening of the facilities will be announced in the coming days.

    If you visited the Argo or Gallup canoe liveries between June 19 and July 3, please self-monitor for any COVID-19 symptoms and seek advice from your physician if you have concerns. COVID-19-related questions may also be directed to the Washtenaw County Health Department at L-wchdcontact@washtenaw.org or 734.544.6700; please leave a message. Voicemail messages are checked several times each weekday, and calls will be returned within 24 hours or sooner.

    The city apologizes for this inconvenience and appreciates patience from the public while the facilities are closed. Updates, as available, will be shared on the canoe liveries website, http://www.a2gov.org/canoe, and social media.”

  3. Wobblie
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 5:59 am | Permalink

    Aloha anyone with a brain knows we are heading for a shit show this fall. Harvard has cancelled all in person classes, Cambridge has cancelled its entire fall term. Trump sycophants are being required to sacrifice their children’s futures. More evidence that survivors have continueing cognitive issues Just the kinda of voters the Leader needs. MAGA

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-brains/scientists-warn-of-potential-wave-of-covid-linked-brain-damage-idUSKBN24837S

  4. Bob
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 7:29 am | Permalink

    I was a reluctant Whitmer voter at the time of the election but her and Nessel have my enthusiastic support forever now. They are fantastic and we’re lucky to have them.

  5. Demetrius
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    Perhaps unprecedented in modern times, Whitmer has faced a series of catastrophic events in quick succession– a pandemic, an economic implosion, and an historic dam collapse/flooding. While everything hasn’t been perfect, it is hard to imagine anyone could have done a better job.

    I think this NYT profile did a pretty good job of outlining some of Whitmer’s experiences during this period, and her approach to governing during this difficult time.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/25/magazine/gretchen-whitmer-coronavirus-michigan.html

  6. John Brown
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    COVID confirmed present at Argo and Gallup Canoe Liveries between June 19 and July 2. Do not go to Argo Cascades tubing, its a floating test tube.

    https://www.a2gov.org/news/pages/article.aspx?i=709

  7. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

    Thanx Gretch! Putting Michigan over the top!

    https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/06/15/new-michigan-numbers-34-covid-19-deaths-linked-nursing-homes/3193407001/

  8. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

    One of every three deaths linked to COVID-19 in Michigan was a nursing home patient, according to the results of a new “extensive data validation effort” by the state Department of Health and Human Services.

    The department announced on Monday testing requirements for the facilities and revealed it has tracked 1,947 deaths among patients in nursing facilities and 20 deaths among staff.

  9. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    But Gretchen’s executive order mandated that nursing homes handle incoming covid 19 patients in a “safe” way. She used the word “safe”. So what else is she supposed to do? She said “safe”….Admit it.

    Meet you all the way/
    Cassandra/ Cassandra
    Meet you all the way/
    Cassandra

  10. Anonymous
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

    To all the armchair physicians out there, I’m wondering what alternative you suggest. The drive to move non critical patients (at the time of the move) back to the referring facility was not made by Whitmer in a vacuum. The hospitals that were the most affected asked for this, as they needed to prioritize room for really sick patients that definitely needed hospitalization at the time of presentation. At that time, the field hospitals were not set up and ready for these types of not quite super ill patients. We had an understanding that it would be like bailing water out of a leaky rowboat, and hoping that either the leak gets smaller or the bucket gets bigger. We knew that some of the patients that we turned away initially at emergency room triage would possibly return sicker and need admission at a later date, just as we knew that some of the patients that we discharged back to facilities could come back in the same manner. Clearly in retrospect the nursing home facilities were unable to isolate these patients safely, but they had licenses that charged them to provide this type of isolation care.

  11. Bob
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    It must be the shit frosting on the turd cake that is your life Warlord. To have strong, competent democratic women owning your bitch-ass and your bitch-ass President like this. At the risk of sounding like Lynne for a minute (God help me), we need more women like this in office. All of them as far as I’m concerned. Why didn’t we have someone this competent running against Trump to begin with? Hillary really was the worst we could have done. At the worst possible time. I hope Biden gets his VP pick right. I hope he chooses EW, although that ship has probably sailed.

  12. Demetrius
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

    Nursing homes, by their very nature, mostly care for people who are very old, very ill, or both – exactly the people who have the worst outcomes related to COVID-19. So … of course they account for the vast majority of deaths, here in Michigan, nationwide, and in practically every other country that’s been impacted so far.

    This just seems so self-evident that I can’t understand why some people feel this is “news,” or an opportunity to try to score political points.

  13. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

    It was impossible for Whitmer to take the same route as DeSantis? Why?

  14. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    Demetrius,

    If the risk is so obvious (and I agree it is) then why have other states with much larger populations of people in nursing homes been able to avoid the death of those at risk populations? Maybe they took different obvious steps to avoid killing the at risk population?

  15. Wobblie
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, 60,000 new cases today. Almost back to 1000 deaths The tRumpvirus death cult does not care how many die. Turn off the pandemic assistance, drive the wage slaves back to work. MAGA
    Quick look over there antifa wants to tear down a statue.

  16. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

    “Nursing homes, by their very nature, mostly care for people who are very old, very ill, or both – exactly the people who have the worst outcomes related to COVID-19. So … of course they account for the vast majority of deaths, here in Michigan, nationwide, and in practically every other country that’s been impacted so far.
    This just seems so self-evident that I can’t understand why some people feel this is “news,” or an opportunity to try to score political points.”

    You think that explains it better than Whitmer requiring nursing homes to take covid patients if possible? Have you ever addressed Whitmer’s order? Barely anyone responded when I talked about it and no one said anything true. Lynne tried using the order to somehow deny it. You can try to make your own reality in spite of the facts but how can that work in the long run? How can you ever win except by continuing to lie and hope it sticks?

  17. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

    Wobblie,

    We are literally trying to engage in a conversation about covid19. Yes or no? You never seem to be able to answer anything. A few days ago I asked you direct questions which challenged your judgment in the lake Orion chipotle parking lot incident. Instead of engaging you pretended we should be talking about something else you seemed more important at the time. That has been your MO for years. It is very childish.

    So ask you Wobblie: What was preventing Whitmer from handling the at risk population like DeSantis? Why in your opinion does Sweden, with a slightly larger population than Michigan, have no mass lockdown, and less Covid death than Michigan?

  18. Wobblie
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    Aloha —Sweden 5500 deaths 5000 over 60, 60% in 70s and 80’s With the growing realization that there is no long lasting immunity, the government realizes they made an unconscionable mistake.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107913/number-of-coronavirus-deaths-in-sweden-by-age-groups/

  19. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

    Why do you think Sweden has less death than Michigan, when they have a larger population, and took almost no precautions? It’s ok if you do not have an answer. I am asking because I don’t understand how people can declare Whitmer’s handling of this as a success story.

  20. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    I know it is complicated, but for fun, assuming all things are equal (and they are not equal) Whitmer was outperformed by a country that did not take any preventative measures.

    That should give us pause before declaring Whitmer “our savior”. The next question is: What factors made it impossible to adopt a plan similar to DeSantis?

  21. Wobblie
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, It is erroneous to believe that Sweden did nothing. They closed some secondary schools and restricted the size of public gatherings. Sweden has a more equalitarian and socially responsible population. The government recommended all the practices that the tRumpvirus death cult has agitated against.
    Swedes do not compare themselves to Americans, they see how well Norway has done. How because of the failure to contain, they are excluded from travel in the EU. The government will probably fall.

  22. Wobblie
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, I suspect that the small differences in the case fatality rate Michigan (7300o confirmed cases/6225 confirmed deaths=.085 ) vs. Sweden (73000/ 5482 vs=,075) is more a reflection of the general heath of older Swedes versus most older Americans.

  23. Wobblie
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

    Aloha , Sweden with 10 million folks dad 271 new cases yesterday. Michigan 456,
    Germany 83 million 390 new cases.

    Our “lockdown” was week and porous , more like the reality in Sweden, than the effective containment and soon crushing of the virus in Germany.

    https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2020/03/31/tracking-michigan-covid-19-cases-by-age-range/?outputType=amp

  24. Frosted Flakee
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    Wobblie,

    You seem to be holding on tight to this “virus crushing” fantasy of yours. It is obvious Germany has been battling the virus better than most but you could have said Germany was on the cusp of “crushing the virus” back in mid May. Their daily numbers have been consistent. Not sure. Maybe there is a case to be made that they are just detecting a similar amount of cases because of a lot of testing? Not sure?

    I do think the idea you have that some governments are successfully “crushing the virus” is a fantasy.

  25. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    Wobblie,

    You seem to be holding on tight to this “virus crushing” fantasy of yours. It is obvious Germany has been battling the virus better than most but you could have said Germany was on the cusp of “crushing the virus” back in mid May. Their daily numbers have been consistent. Not sure. Maybe there is a case to be made that they are just detecting a similar amount of cases because of a lot of testing? Not sure?

    I do think the idea you have that some governments are successfully “crushing the virus” is a fantasy.

  26. iRobert
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

    It’s all about deaths per capita. Any other comparisons are bullshit.

  27. Wobblie
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, “crushing” equals being able to reopen society Without sparking uncontrollable spread. Trump you and the rest of the death cult demanded we reopen without any of the tools for testing, tracking, containing and ultimately crushing the virus in place.
    We now have an uncontrollable community spread of the virus. MAGA 250000 preventable deaths by election day.

  28. Wobblie
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 7:45 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, yeah lets be like DeSantis, hide the data and pretend everything is somebody else’s fault.
    Delusional death cult members will force the CDC to issue new guidelines so we can “feel” good about sending our kids to the covid party.

    https://www.salon.com/2020/07/08/56-florida-hospitals-hit-100-icu-capacity-as-desantis-defends-refusal-to-release-coronavirus-data/?fbclid=IwAR24MvDp6Mh8nz5aqNEPen8Idi49gq-IHM2zTyFesdO7NgjCGbOX5EBRVEs

  29. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 8:28 pm | Permalink

    You don’t want to be like a state that has double our population, a much higher percentage of people in nursing homes, and about a 1/3 less raw covid death than us? Ok.

  30. Lynne
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 8:30 pm | Permalink

    It seems pretty clear that the USA has overall handled this badly although I agree with others that Whitmer has been doing a great job considering the cards she has been dealt.

    It is frustrating for me that so many refuse to wear masks indoors. Just the other day, I thought it might be ok to get my favorite burger in town from Kluck’s. The carhop was not wearing a mask! At least it is outdoors and I was wearing a mask but still!

  31. iRobert
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

    FF: “You don’t want to be like a state that has double our population, a much higher percentage of people in nursing homes, and about a 1/3 less raw covid death than us? Ok.”

    …and was not hit by a surge until the last few weeks.

  32. iRobert
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

    Illinois, Pennsylvania and California have all overtaken Michigan in total number of deaths. Michigan has not overtaken any other states in total deaths in that same recent time frame.

    Florida has overtaken Maryland and Louisiana in total number of deaths. No other states have overtaken Florida in that same recent time frame.

  33. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 11:15 pm | Permalink

    iRobert,

    Nice to hear from you. I did not notice you on the forum lately so I was wondering if you were ok.

  34. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 11:20 pm | Permalink

    I suppose there are a lot ways to compare MI to FL. It always seems like we do not compare well at all to me.

    I have read, of the people that die, it takes 18 days on average to kill a person.

    On 6/20 FL had 93k cases. 18 days later they had 3.9k deaths.

    On 4/7 MI had 26k cases. 18 days later we had 3.9k deaths.

    I do wonder if a lot more people in MI had covid than we knew about….Not sure but Michigan always looks bad when I compare is to FL.

  35. iRobert
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 11:38 pm | Permalink

    I’ve been in Key West and Orlando over the last few weeks. Most Floridians look at me like I’m strange for wearing a mask and social distancing. The vast majority of people I’ve seen out and about in the areas I visited were not taking any precautions. If you think Michiganders are idiots, visit Florida.

  36. iRobert
    Posted July 8, 2020 at 11:52 pm | Permalink

    The Detroit area was one of the earliest spots in the US where community spread really took off. It’s likely the direct flights from China coming in to DTW was the initial source.

    Michigan is one of the examples of what happens when for weeks there is absolutely no awareness of the virus spreading. Florida has had the advantage of not being hit early and hard. That advantage is subsiding. The massive senior population is inevitably going to be a disaster.

  37. Jean Henry
    Posted July 9, 2020 at 9:06 am | Permalink

    http://www.thesalinepost.com/health/young-adults-make-most-todays-covid-19-cases-washtenaw-county

  38. wobblie
    Posted July 9, 2020 at 10:50 am | Permalink

    Aloha FF, 126 new deaths from the tRumpvirus in Florida yesterday MAGA, got to go back to May 5 to see a daily death toll like that in Michigan. Their just getting going in the sunshine state and no amount non-reporting the statistics will help. I’ll take Whitmer over DeSantis every day of the week. But hey FF, I give you credit for trying to find a death cult member who is competent.

  39. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 9, 2020 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

    It’s competent to force covid patients into nursing homes which accounted for over a third of your state’s deaths. Making a lot of sense there.

  40. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 9, 2020 at 10:42 pm | Permalink

    Florida has roughly 2.5x more residents over 70.

    Michigan covid deaths over 70 years old account for 2/3 of our covid death or 4150 dead people. If you transfer that number into Florida’s larger population and larger percentage of people over 70 you should expect, all other things being equal, that Florida would have over 15k covid deaths. They have 4004 deaths.

    Adjusted for population differences Florida has almost 4x the death you would expect compared to MI. Explain what accounts for that huge discrepancy please, Wobblie. Or keep telling yourself that Whitmer is “rocking it” ,if you want, but do so knowing that you look like a fool in deep denial.

  41. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 9, 2020 at 10:44 pm | Permalink

    Oops. Should read Florida has almost 4x LESS death than you would expect compared to MI.

  42. iRobert
    Posted July 9, 2020 at 10:54 pm | Permalink

    Once again, FF, the Michigan curve surged months before Florida’s.

  43. iRobert
    Posted July 9, 2020 at 10:57 pm | Permalink

    In two months, Florida will have that 15k death total. I think your number will prove to be a pretty accurate projection.

  44. iRobert
    Posted July 9, 2020 at 11:00 pm | Permalink

    …and I agree having COVID positive wings in nursing homes which are otherwise COVID free was and is incompetent. It’s stupid, and Cuomo has the sense to correct that policy in New York. Democrats have a irrational overconfidence in the health care industry. They do all sorts of stupid things as a result of it.

  45. Anonymous
    Posted July 10, 2020 at 5:15 am | Permalink

    There was no other qualified place to put these patients in SE Michigan at the time of the surge. We had asked largely empty hospitals outside the tri state area but they refused to accept transfers of these particular patient types because of fear of bringing the infection into their community.

  46. Jean Henry
    Posted July 10, 2020 at 5:57 am | Permalink

    You know, instead of arguing policy here in broad stroke terms completely inappropriate to the situation, we could just wait and see where the chips fall. It’s not looking great for conservative controlled areas lately. In WL, people insist that an EO is not law and they can’t be forced to wear masks and they aren’t wearing them. The clerks in the grocery store are unmasked as well. And the party boats and family gatherings have been in full force. I assume behavior like that is why our hot spots are in rural areas while the mass protests in urban areas seems to have not created a new surge… so far. Guess we’ll see…

    I know that disease does not have any moral righteousness in who it impacts, but infectious disease impacting areas where people refuse basic guidelines may be an exception

    . Right now conservatives here have zero basis for claiming superiority in disease management. That never stops them though. Kind of amazing how powerful a force moral certainty is.

  47. Wobblie
    Posted July 10, 2020 at 6:14 am | Permalink

    Aloha FF our whole political class has proven incompetent and bought. Whitmer is at least not a sociopath. Our country is nothing but a bunch of whiny spoiled losers headed by a defeatist.
    Live with the virus is a totally defeatist attitude. We have already ensured the environment is fucked. Lets use our children as experimental subjects. I am sure we will then be able to find out the longterm consequences of tRumpvirus exposure. Since the death cult losers want to coexist with the virus we’ll also get to find out what repeated exposure to the virus does to a survivor over time.
    As Moon of Alabama pointed out, the US has surrendered to the virus, protect yourselves.
    Trump and his sycophants are collaborating with the virus to create maximum chaos (they can read polls). We threw Carter out over the hostage failure. We threw Bush I out over increased taxes. In a normal election it would be a landslide for Biden. Trump needs chaos and massive dislocation to win. Spreading the virus as widely and as deadly as possible is his reelection strategy.

  48. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 10, 2020 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    Anonymous,

    Florida was roughly 3 weeks behind Michigan in terms of Covid cases in late March/ early April. Do you have a theory why we surged and they did not? Why was DeSantis able to do a better job protecting his nursing home population? Are our nursing home systems/ hospital systems different in some key way which allowed DeSantis to protect the nursing home population and prevented Whitmer from doing the same thing? I don’t get it.

  49. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 10, 2020 at 10:57 am | Permalink

    What is the tri-state area?

  50. EOS
    Posted July 10, 2020 at 11:36 am | Permalink

    Michigan had multiple field hospitals set up to take patients who were infectious but didn’t need an ICU. But we barely used them and no one has explained why.

    Imagine if the common cold were lethal. We don’t have a vaccine nor do we have any medications that prevent a person from catching it. Should we lock down the entire country until science finds a way to cure it? Or do we manage ways to limit exposure and resume everyday activities?

    Other than Covid-19 which was produced in a laboratory using gain of function experiments to determine what makes a virus able to cross species and infect humans, most Covid strains cause only cold-like symptoms. My guess is Covid-19 will mutate to a non-lethal form long before we develop an effective vaccine.

  51. Anonymous
    Posted July 10, 2020 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

    I meant tricounty. The field hospitals were not ready at the time of the initial surge. If we kept non critical patients in the hospital then we couldn’t have accepted critical patients. It wouldn’t have been an issue if either the field hospitals were fully operational or if other communities with hospital space willing to accept patients from outside their own area. Again, although now we know in retrospect that nursing homes were incapable of isolating residents effectively, at the time they were licensed and expected to do so, and their license still reflects that they should be able to do so now. It’s like expecting a licensed driver to be able to navigate a traffic circle. It’s part of being a licensed driver, even if one avoids then until they can’t.

  52. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 10, 2020 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    General question for anyone: When we look at the countries or states that have been hit very hard by covid are there any that have had a second surge? I am not seeing it. If no second surge in places that have been hit hardest then what might that suggest?

  53. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 10, 2020 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    Anonymous,

    So maybe other states did a better job of making sure the expectation of “safety”was more than just a word used in an executive order?

  54. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 10, 2020 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    Maybe Iran is having a second surge? Not sure.

  55. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 10, 2020 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    For Kobe, Japan, our model suggested that over 800 times more people have had COVID-19 than has been reported. For England and Wales, this figure is 28 times more.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/medicalxpress.com/news/2020-06-people-coronavirus-previously.amp

  56. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 10, 2020 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    I am not making an argument one way or the other. I am just sharing things I find interesting. If someone can shoot this stuff down I am offering, or answer these questions, or share theories, then that is welcome.

  57. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 10, 2020 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    I was particularly interested in the bit about England. They were walloped and don’t seem to be experiencing a second wave despite opening things up….

  58. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 10, 2020 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2BlTJKdjCgc

    If reinfection is not common at all, if many more people have it than we know, if no hard hit communities are experiencing a second resurgence; then what might that suggest?

  59. Wobblie
    Posted July 10, 2020 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    Aloha Florida is only reporting the death of residents of the state. Snow birds and individuals who have an out of state resident are not counted. Developer of Florida dashboard was fired by DeSantis when she reported that many fatalities within the state were not being reported. Try looking at the front page of a Miami or Tampa paper if you question the lack of transparency by the DeSantis administration.

    EOS is right about this being more like a killer cold than an influenza. But wrong about the number of covid viruses. We know of 5 covid viruses that have jumped from other species to humans. There are some. Other covids that infect cows as well. Of the 5 covids that infect humans two are associated with the “common cold” it is estimated that approximately 20% of “colds” are covid. These 2 viruses seem to give 3 to 4 months of immunity. There is no evidence that these two viruses have mutated to a less infectious.strains over the years. The other two covids are SARS 1 and MERS. They are so lethal that we do not know anything about immunity.

    We have no idea what repeated exposure brings. One theory of why it is so unpredictable in its effects on folks is because of prior exposure to a covid virus v first or single exposure to a covid.

  60. Wobblie
    Posted July 10, 2020 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    Aloha so much for future international travel plans.
    https://medium.com/@indica/the-plague-states-of-america-53b20678a80e

  61. EOS
    Posted July 10, 2020 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

    Wobblie is right. Mers and Sars are lethal also.

  62. Wobblie
    Posted July 10, 2020 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    Aloha recent Lancet article on subject

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30433-3/fulltext?fbclid=IwAR3wkLEeK57FiEMqYIH58S-omrlgPx_v_ymqQlicavW7uXgefiCNqDN3IhA

  63. Wobblie
    Posted July 10, 2020 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

    Aloha this pretty much sums up the consequences of losing the war.

    https://eand.co/coronavirus-is-going-to-go-permanent-in-america-62c3c248a683

  64. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 10, 2020 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    The snowbirds are a piece of the puzzle. I am not sure what the point of mentioning them is though. I have heard other people mentioning the snowbirds as if they are a factor in explain Florida’s low numbers. I don’t get it. They account for 5% of the pop during the winter months and it is conceivable that this year many made the decision to escape NY,NJ, PA, MD, and MI during the spring. If anything the snowbirds being from the hotspot areas would seem to make it even more surprising that Florida’s numbers look so good—because they would have been more likely transmitters of covid to FL residents.

    Even if you add in the snowbirds and assume the same mortality rates. FL has done relatively well. Right?

  65. EOS
    Posted July 10, 2020 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

    There never has been a possibility of “winning the war”. Asymptomatic persons can spread the virus. Our borders are porous and international travel is common. It would take worldwide strategy and cooperation. It would take quarantines enforced by armed guards and continuous testing. There will be continuous outbreaks in all countries. Fauci spread misinformation to forestall panic. Our only hope of victory is if the RNA virus mutates to a non-lethal form. And if we survive this virus there will be more viruses to come. Maybe someone will discover an effective antiviral or multi drug therapy.

  66. Wobblie
    Posted July 11, 2020 at 5:30 am | Permalink

    Aloha EOS you are a classic defeatist. Victory is impossible, others winning is a lie, besides it is more important to find scape goats.
    What a sorry excuse for patriots.

  67. Lynne
    Posted July 11, 2020 at 10:01 am | Permalink

    EOS, thanks to the way we have been handling this virus, our borders are not so porous anymore. The countries that have dealth with this effectively aren’t letting us in anymore. so much winning! GAWD. If you voted for Trump, you are part of the problem and should feel deeply ashamed.

  68. Posted July 13, 2020 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    We can all thank the dumb-shits who attended the house party in Saline for further outbreaks of the virus in this area, and for making it likely we’ll have to go back to a more restrictive standard. Thanks Saline assholes.

    From MLive:

    Large Saline house party causes coronavirus outbreak in Washtenaw County

    https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/2020/07/large-saline-house-party-causes-coronavirus-outbreak-in-washtenaw-county.html

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