Surprising absolutely no one, Donald Trump, when handed a list of 25 potential Supreme Court candidates to choose from, picked the one who has said that a sitting president can not be subject to criminal investigation or prosecution

For those of you wondering why, when given a list of 25 young, conservative, activist judges to choose from by the Republican establishment, Donald Trump chose to nominate Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court this evening, I humbly submit the following for your consideration.

To my knowledge, Kavanaugh was the only one of the 25 corporatist, anti-abortion, pro-gun potential candidates to actually put in writing his belief that a sitting president can not be subject to criminal investigation or prosecution… which could be kind of a big deal, given that the judge nominated to fill Justice Kennedy’s seat, in the words of Democratic Congressman Adam Schiff, “could be (the) deciding vote on legal challenges to the Mueller investigation.”

Here’s an excerpt from Kavanuagh’s 2009 article in the Minnesota Law Review, in which he argues that, “The indictment and trial of a sitting president… would cripple the federal government.” [Kavanaugh says in the same law review article that, if a president is truly corrupt, Congress has a means by which to remove him from office through impeachment. As we’ve seen, however, that check against the power of the President doesn’t always hold up under pressure.]

And here’s a little more from today’s Washington Post.

…Having observed the weighty issues that can consume a president, Kavanaugh wrote, the nation’s chief executive should be exempt from “time-consuming and distracting” lawsuits and investigations, which “would ill serve the public interest, especially in times of financial or national security crisis”…

Putting aside how laughable it is to think that Donald “executive time” Trump, who probably works less than any President in America’s history, might be kept from “the weighty issues that can consume a president” by a criminal case, it must be really nice to be in a position where one can pick his own judge.

update: NBC’s Geoff Bennett is reporting that Kennedy agreed to retire only if Trump appointed Kavanaugh, who was his former law clerk. If true, we need a federal investigation. Call your elected officials today and demand that they look into this.

update: White House spokesperson Raj Shah does not deny that a deal was made between Kennedy and the administration.

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389 Comments

  1. iRoberr
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 4:31 am | Permalink

    I wonder how Justice Kennedy was threatened into retiring.

  2. Anonymous
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 6:08 am | Permalink

    One would hope that Mueller is wondering the same thing.

  3. Adam Schiff by proxy
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 6:16 am | Permalink

    Given the significance of Brett Kavanaugh’s nomination to the Supreme Court and the profound effect it may have on the country for a generation — on choice, marriage, the ACA, and much more — McConnell must abide by the precedent he set: no hearing until the voters can be heard.

  4. John Brown
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 6:42 am | Permalink

    Illegitimate Ruskie Stooge nominates extremist judge to save own hide and solidify GOP/Ruskie fascist coup. Get a clue where this is heading my fellow “libtards”. The water continues to heat up and all the frog does is look to Mueller to save him.

    http://www.armslist.com/classifieds/michigan

  5. John Brown
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 7:17 am | Permalink

    Coordinated with Kennedy.

    https://www.alternet.org/bombshell-supreme-court-justice-anthony-kennedy-agreed-retire-if-trump-promised-replace-him-brett

  6. Demetrius
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 8:32 am | Permalink

    The question is – what can anyone really do to stop this?

    Despite a lot of hand-wringing and consternation, I suspect many of the usual DINO senators (Donnelly, Heitkamp, Manchin, etc.) will end up voting to confirm, and I expect the Democratic leadership will roll over, as well – in the spirit of “bipartisanship” and “compromise.”

    In an alternate universe, Democrats might refuse to participate in any confirmation hearing on any nominee until after the voters have “had their say” in the mid-term elections … but again, I don’t see that happening.

  7. Washington Post's Aaron Blake
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    Kavanaugh made extremely odd claim: “No president has ever consulted more widely, or talked with more people from more backgrounds, to seek input about a [SCOTUS] nomination.”

    There’ve been ~160 previous nominees — and selection process isn’t generally matter of public record.

  8. Iron Lung
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    But what does Kavanaugh think of the lizard people adrenochrome conspiracy that Donald Trump is currently fighting?

    I think that question is salient.

  9. XXX
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    Kavanaugh starts by lying and kissing ass.

    https://twitter.com/axios/status/1016490932324175874

  10. M
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 9:00 am | Permalink

    Have any constitutional law scholars weighed in yet as to the legality of a Supreme Court Justice negotiating his stepping down from the bench in exchange for being able to name his successor?

  11. Mother Jones DC bureau chief David Corn
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    “If it is true that Kennedy negotiated the Kavanaugh pick with Trump, all his decisions should be called into question. And this would merit a congressional investigation.”

    https://twitter.com/DavidCornDC/status/1016683335052152832

  12. Jean Henry
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 9:05 am | Permalink

    Good luck proving that one Mark.

  13. Jean Henry
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    This is a done deal. We need to correct via the legislature. That’s how laws should be made.

    Roe v Wade was always vulnerable because of how the decision was written. We can protect the right to abortion better, with new laws, ideally an Equal Rights Amendment for Women which would ensure their bodily autonomy. Right now the State’s interest is of higher value than a woman’s ‘right to privacy.’ It’s the right to privacy (ie the privacy of medical decisions) that Roe is hinged on. I would much prefer it was the rights of women to the bodily autonomy men enjoy in spite of their capacity to bear children.

    This nomination sucks. But he’s going to gain the seat. And we need to start strategizing now for how to limit some of the damage his appointment will cause.

    No matter who was appointed, Chief Justice Roberts becomes the deciding 5th vote on the court. We should be studying his decisions more thanKavanaugh’s.

  14. Jean Henry
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 9:12 am | Permalink

    Correction (ugh): I would much prefer it was the rights of women, in spite of their capacity to bear children, to the same bodily autonomy men enjoy.

  15. Iron Lung
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    When we eliminate abortion and access to any kind of birth control. the economy will flourish and white Americans will finally take back the country again.

  16. Jean Henry
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 9:20 am | Permalink

    “Abortion is usually framed as a women’s issue. In some ways, this makes sense: Reproductive choice — and its absence — affects what happens within women’s bodies. And for the one in four women who have had an abortion, the issue is particularly personal. But it is important to remember that men also benefit greatly from safe and legal abortions. A partner’s abortion has enabled men to finish school, allowed men to pursue their chosen careers, saved men from the loss of a spouse because of medical complications, kept men from economic hardship and spared men the emotional burden of unwanted parenthood. Men should be deeply invested in reproductive freedom, too.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/07/10/men-should-worry-about-the-future-of-roe-v-wade-too/?utm_term=.bc2710a7abf9

  17. Iron Lung
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    So Roe gets overturned and the States criminalize all abortion services, what will religious right wingers do next? Criminalize condoms?

    I think it is worth asking. It is doubtful that they will just slink back into the muck and leave everyone alone finally.

  18. Jean Henry
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 9:26 am | Permalink

    “When it comes to sex, research shows that women are more likely than men to be stigmatized for identical behavior, and men would therefore face less scorn for disclosing how a partner’s abortion benefited them. And if men came forward with personal narratives about how abortion has affected — and improved — their lives, perhaps abortion as a whole would become a less stigmatized topic.”
    “For decades, men have benefited from the availability of safe and legal abortion. And it’s time for men to start taking threats to reproductive freedom personally. To all the men who know the importance of reproductive choice from firsthand experience: If you are ready, share your abortion stories with your families, your friends and your community. “

  19. Jean Henry
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2005/01/letting-go-of-roe/303695/

    “By removing the issue from the policy arena, the Supreme Court has prevented abortion-rights supporters from winning a debate in which public opinion favors them.”

    “Since its inception Roe has had a deep legitimacy problem, stemming from its weakness as a legal opinion. Conservatives who fulminate that the Court made up the right to abortion, which appears explicitly nowhere in the Constitution, are being simplistic—but they’re not entirely wrong. In the years since the decision an enormous body of academic literature has tried to put the right to an abortion on firmer legal ground. But thousands of pages of scholarship notwithstanding, the right to abortion remains constitutionally shaky; abortion policy is a question that the Constitution—even broadly construed—cannot convincingly be read to resolve.”

    “Consequently, a pro-lifer who complains that she never got her democratic say before abortion was legalized nationwide has a powerful grievance. And there’s nothing quite like denying people a say in policy to energize their commitment to a position. This point is not limited to abortion. For instance, the host of gay-marriage ballot initiatives in November came in direct response to the decision by the Massachusetts Supreme Court to treat same-sex unions as a judicial matter rather than a legislative one. And less than a year before the Court handed down Roe, it single-handedly reinvigorated a public commitment to capital punishment (which at that point was on the way out) by striking down the death penalty as then practiced; within several years states had rewritten their laws, the Court had backed down, and executions had skyrocketed to levels unseen in decades.”

  20. Jean Henry
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    None of the above applies, if we don’t start getting as strategic as the GOP about winning elections. We have to end gerrymandering. We have to protect voting rights and encourage participation. And until we can do so legislatively, we must GOTV and win back the congress federally and in MI.

    We can secure abortion and contraceptive rights if we do it through the legislatures, w here such policy making belongs. But we have to start winning local, state and federal elections.

    In MI most elections are decided in the August primary when less than 10% of the population votes. Make your plans to vote now. either be staying home on August 7th or getting an absentee ballot.

  21. Iron Lung
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 9:40 am | Permalink

    “executions had skyrocketed to levels unseen in decades.”

    Conservative America’s commitment to violence was again realized. They were able to find a legal path to go back to the glory days of public lynchings.

  22. Jean Henry
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    Yes, IL. It’s a strong argument for why judicial activism often does not pan out. There tends to be a public sentiment and legislative swing in the other direction. In the end, overturning Roe may well have the effect of creating much more vigorous protections for female bodily agency generally and reproductive health decisions specifically. Assuming we take back state and federal congresses.

  23. To M, from the internet
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    Is retirement an official act? Is being able to choose your replacement a thing of value? If so…

  24. Lynne
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    I am not seeing any Blue Wave so far but hope I will be proved wrong at the August primaries.

    I hope this wakes people up but my guess is that sadly we may need some high profile deaths from back alley abortions. I hope not though. I hope those who would not vote or vote third party will come to understand that people’s actual lives are on the line.

  25. Norm Eisen by proxy
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

    If this is true, Kennedy had a major conflict of interest as to Trump while sitting in judgment on Trump’s actions including the Muslim ban. A judge cannot secretly negotiate a benefit he badly wants with a litigant who has other business before his court. Hearings must address.

    https://twitter.com/NormEisen/status/1016669647444291584

  26. M
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

    An interesting read:

    https://twitter.com/lauferlaw/status/1016513860457717760?s=21

  27. iRobert
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    In politics, it is common for a sitting official to be blackmailed into retirement. Often the person being blackmailed is also offered a consolation to cooperate. This serves several purposes. For one thing, it ‘softens’ the situation so it doesn’t feel purely like blackmail to the victim. For another, it serves as a distraction and visible explanation to any outside observer who might otherwise delve further into details. It some cases, the consolation is also a planted clue to serve as misdirection if further investigation insues.

  28. iRobert
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

    I probably shouldn’t have used the word “victim” and just used the word “official” again.

    Anyway, the Kavanaugh choice is a very good one strategically. It will be difficult for the Democrats to fight without damaging themselves in the process.

  29. iRobert
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    The comments Kavanaugh made, regarding how much consideration was put into this choice, we’re strange. In one way, it appears just to be an appeal to Trump’s bizarre ego. But there would be many ways to do that without making such a ridiculously absurd statement of historical comparison. I can’t help but feel it is an indication of something, which we do not yet understand about this situation.

  30. iRobert
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    I wonder if what was hung over Justice Kennedy’s head, was a #metoo situation. Id that were the case, it seems likely Kavanaugh might be a witness, or even a potential complainant. That explanation would fit the engineering here. If there is anything to this speculation, we could be seeing a move made by any number of interests, not necessarily those looking to bolster or benefit Trump.

  31. Sad
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    IRobert your conspiracy talk is so much more sophisticated than what we’re used to from HW.

    It would be fascinating to be a fly on the wall after you three go to the movie.

  32. iRobert
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    HW, I have 30+ years experience working in politics and in political campaigns. For a good portion of that I worked in opposition research, strategy, and other related areas. I have also been an avid follower of criminal investigations, especially those relating to politics, big business, and organized crime. I speak frequently to fiends who have gone in to law enforcement professions which regularly deal with these sorts of cases and subjects.

    I wouldn’t waste my time with people who have so little real life experiences or information. But, obviously, your comment was just meant to insult, so how would you like me to respond? Would you like me to get into one of these childish insult battles we read here so often?

  33. iRobert
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

    I suppose you were trying to diminish me and the comments I made speculating about the possibility of blackmail being a factor in Justice Kennedy’s decision to retire. Is that right? I’d so, why, may I ask?

  34. iRobert
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

    I meant to say, “If so, why, may I ask?

  35. iRobert
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

    By the way, M, podcast episode #5 is available now on the Facebook page.

  36. wobblie
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

    “There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” ~Søren Kierkegaard

  37. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

    “HW, I have 30+ years experience…”

    Talking to me?

  38. iRobert
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    Sorry, I meant to address that to Sad.

    However, I do believe in listening to everyone. It seems a lot of people think it makes them seem more credible to make frequent disparaging remarks about others, calling them “conspiracy theorists.” I listen to everyone because I don’t have any fear of words or ideas. I’m not worried I’ll believe something that doesn’t pass a critical analysis.

    I have made light of a lot of things you say, HW, but I do believe you do a lot of poking around, and that’s always a valuable thing to me, to talk to people who do that. I don’t agree with a lot of your positions, but I value that you poke around so much. That’s always valuable to me.

  39. Sad
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    Sorry. I was just making light.

    These issues make me nervous and I try to find the humor.

    I appreciate your hat tip to HW. Everyone brings something.

    Again. Apologies.

  40. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    You’re not going to believe what poking around can amount to; undeniably amazing changes ahead. Trump declassifies, truth becomes known to all, justice for perpetrators with public support, Democrat party disintegrates ahead of midterms…

  41. iRobert
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

    HW, I haven’t felt that you have ever insulted me. I appreciate that, and will be more polite toward you from now on.

    Like I said, I disagree with many of your positions. And I wish I shared your optimism. But I’m not going to join in with the pointless bashing of you. It just doesn’t seem to serve any purpose.

    I’m going to go back to bashing Mark at every opportunity, so he can get a load of that every time he reads through the comments.

    Just kidding, Mark. I know you don’t read the comments.

  42. iRobert
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    HW. I do believe the Democrats are going to minimize their potential gains in the midterms. With all their infighting and with so many flakes making many of their strategy decisions, it seems like a fair bet. Still, I’m not sure how you feel Trunp can get away with declassifying much stuff. There are lots of interests that have had things classified for damn strong reasons.

  43. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 5:27 pm | Permalink

    DNC server and/or Weiner laptop

  44. iRobert
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    Sad, I appreciate the olive branch. I would like to see us all move a little more toward civility here. I know I’m as much to blame as anybody for the nonscence and the rottenness. I am just getting tired of it, even my own.

  45. iRobert
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 5:35 pm | Permalink

    HW, I do think there is plenty more in the DNC communications which would further splinter the Democrats as we draw closer to these midterms. There’s no doubt they always do a lot of manipulating which outsiders apparently can’t imagine. The RNC too. The communications which go on between people in these organizations are assumed forever private when they’re written, so they are stock full of nastiness, or at least things the general public would have a strong negative reaction over.

  46. iRobert
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    I’m of course very interested in seeing how these things play out. I kinda wish I weren’t. I want to enjoy my life.

  47. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    You should have seen my kid gloves policy when I first started posting before the 2016 election. I refused to respond to personal attacks 100% for months. Left for a while and came back and was like fuck it – I’m done with this nice guy shit! Haha. I would be totally nice and just talk about ideas – that’s what I want, but there is this little online SJW crew that keeps trying to attack with the most moronic shit.

  48. iRobert
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

    I also apologize for shifting the discussion here in the comment section away from Mark’s topic a bit. I am just not so sure Kavanaugh is going to automatically be what everyone is expecting. My suspicious self considers the possibility that other considerations are taking priority over the abortion issue, or that this is a setup for a curve ball.

  49. iRobert
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    HW. I think you sort of serve as an outlet for a lot of frustration here. A lot of people are feeling blind-sided and very powerless as to where and how to strike back. I hope you don’t really take any of the attacks too personally. In the final analysis, we are all in this boat together, and though we may be pissed off at each other, we can’t just decend into seeing each other as enemies. That just can’t turn out well.

  50. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    Server proves there was no hack. Copied directly to thumb drive (Seth Rich).

    Weiner laptop contains??? Supposed to be hundreds of thousands of Clinton/Abedin emails in a file called Life Insurance…

  51. iRobert
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

    We will see if anything comes of it. The Clintons are pretty savvy and they’re a lot less relevant now. My guess is all that is going to be dropped so focus can be turned toward who’s going to challenge Teump in 2020. But I’m not sure there isn’t already a plan within the GOP to cut Trump lose once it’s felt he’s outlived his usefulness.

  52. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

    Trump will win 2020 by a historic landslide. It’s going to be very different by then. It’s not even close to just the Clintons. Are there not 40,000+ sealed indictments all around the country right now? I don’t know if screenshots of pacer.gov posted by people I don’t know mean anything but it seems to be strangely avoided by all debunkers. Is John Huber doing nothing with his 470 member team in Utah? Who is Huber working for?

  53. iRobert
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

    I haven’t followed any of that HW. I’ll have to look at it and see what I make of it.

  54. Demetrius
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

    Trump will win 2020 by an historic landslide … because by then, he’ll be the only candidate on the ballot.

  55. iRobert
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

    HW, when are these 40k indictments supposed ro be made public? Is there ever any mention?

  56. iRobert
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

    HW, after reading a bit, it seems to me that these 40,000 may not all sealed indictments. And I’m not sure the increase can’t just be explained with a general increase in ICE investigations and such.

    I don’t necessarily see this as positive and promising. We have to see to what crimes these are pertaining before we can say this is a wonderful thing. We could get many tens of thousands of indictments if we decided to go after every person suspected of even the slightest drug offense. That wouldn’t necessarily be a great thing. It would mean that resources were being redirected from elsewhere, and that could mean lots of white-collar crime and fraud was going unchecked. We can’t make value judgments when we don’t know the details yet.

  57. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    The numbers represent new sealed proceedings…Some have been unsealed or removed. Probably not that many or we would start hearing about it.

    I don’t think it’s minor drug offenses. I think it is major corruption and criminality. No one knows when it will hit but I am putting my money on it beginning before midterms.

  58. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    Demetrius – I almost had that name… That would be sweet if things were going so unbelievably great that no one even thought of trying to beat him. Would you hate it if we were clearly doing awesome one or two years down the line?

  59. iRobert
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

    Well, if a dramatic increase in arrests of powerful people occurs. That’s going to definitely get a lot of attention.

    I noticed a lot of argument back and forth here where you said you accurately predicted some things that others here denied would happen? What were those events?

  60. Iron Lung 2
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

    Phuuuuck redpill the normies dude lizard people adrenocrome fuck soooo haaaaaiii rich people gettin off better than meth child adrenochrome farms take it mannnnn cbdoils in my eyes

    is the dog alive? phhuuuck holocaust denial

  61. Jean Henry
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 9:05 pm | Permalink

    Apparently iRobert missed on the other long thread the uncovering of the depths of HW’s conspiracy theories directed by Qanon and still insists on taking him seriously. We did that for a while, iRobert. Have fun. You have only skimmed the surface of a multi-pronged web of conspiracies that is full of misinformation and some bat shit crazy stuff about Lizard people and drugs that are supposedly derived from love tortured children. The drug is real but the story about its origins was invented by no less than Hunter S Thompson, who must be super amused. Part of the plan in waking people up (roping people in) to the conspiracy theories is to not talk about those issues off the bat but to go on forums and play nice and slowlye neg people into buying the more plausible elements of the conspiracy by arguing them into submission with fallacies etc etc. I’m confident that HW believes all of this, but neither the ideas nor the research are his own. He is spoon fed this stuff. The complexity of the whole thing makes him feel he has done work himself, but that’s just the strain of twisting his brain around the complexity of the Qanon universe.

  62. Jean Henry
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    ** not “love tortured children” but the blood of tortured children

  63. Jean Henry
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

    As I have said before, the most dismal part of HW and his theories is that rather than confront power like the normal conspiracy nut, HW seeks to legitimize and concentrate power in the hands of a tyrant, already the most powerful man on the world.

  64. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 10, 2018 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    I don’t remember hearing HW talking about lizard people at all. I have heard you and IL talking about Lizard people quite a lot, however. Also, what is with all the out of nowhere accusations of holocaust denial coming from your buddy? What the hell?

  65. Jean Henry
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 6:00 am | Permalink

    FF– If you read Qanon conspiracy theory sites, you will find all that HW puts forward as well as the lizard people, and counsel to slow dose the information so as not to overwhelm converts. As well as counsel to treat people nicely at first to lure them in. While HW has not talked about lizard people, the people he targets as central: the Clintons, etc all are listed in Qanon sites as being lizard people. HW has also talked about a giant pedophile ring which tortures children which is consistent with the imaginary source for Adrenochrome drug and so consistent with the larger Qanon theory. Lots of the ‘data’ Hw has presented here, including the sealed indictments, is folded into the larger theory. It’s all publicly available and IL provided links.

    And HW has not responded to those aspects of IL’s commentary nor mine.

    As for the holocaust denial, I think that was drawn from HW’s statements about Jewish people from back in the C-Ville threads. And again, HW has not denied. He is not often restrained about his opinions so its worth paying attention to when he doesn’t respond.

    If you have questions about HW I would suggest you dig into QAnon sources. HW has acknowledged that Q is the source of his theories. Although he insists he builds his case from Q’s post through his own independent ‘research.’

    A lot of what IL does is willful provocation of HW to get him to reveal his hidden hand. It may not be all accurate, but it’s been an effective strategy, also amusing.

  66. Jean Henry
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 6:01 am | Permalink

    FF Please also note the number of times HW has stated that he isn’t given us all the information because we couldn’t handle the truth but that all would be revealed in time.

    If you want to understand HW, do some of your own ‘research.’

  67. iRobert
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 6:25 am | Permalink

    I wonder how many people are now believers in this QAnon ‘perspective’. I don’t see much reason to spend too much time on it unless the believers are in the many millions.

    No offense to HW, but from what I’ve seen QAnon has many similarities to what one would observe in any traditional cult. In this internet age we can easily observe how these things develop. That required much more investigative work in the past. Clearly it can be very unnerving.

  68. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 7:36 am | Permalink

    Q never talked once about reptilians. You are the disinfo, Jean. I know someone who did adrenochrome in the Bay area circa 1990. They said it was the best drug they ever tried. Shocking if you know how it is obtained.

  69. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 7:39 am | Permalink

    You misunderstood my comments on Charlottesville as you do on most everything. Pretty sure I didn’t say anything about the holocaust.

  70. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 7:51 am | Permalink

    Usually these people start pestering me about my opinion on holocaust denial, “men’s rights groups,” white supremacy, etc. No matter what my response, if any, they start pretending I was the one saying what they are insinuating. It’s so dumb.

  71. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 7:54 am | Permalink

    To be clear, EOS is the Holocaust denier.

    It cannot be confirmed directly that the Mr. 420 Bomalian Kushlord is in the lizard people camp, though he likely suppresses the most batshit of his views in the hopes of “redpilling the normies”

    “Q never talked once about reptilians. ”

    This is untrue, according to the inlfuential news source, “exopolitics”

    https://www.exopolitics.org/qanon-reveals-vatican-rothschild-reptilian-connection-behind-the-deep-state/

  72. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 7:54 am | Permalink

    https://www.qproofs.com

  73. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 7:55 am | Permalink

    The Flakey Flakes should do some reading about Qanon conspiracy enthusiasts.

    Unlikely that he will, he doesn’t even seem familiar with Lee Atwater.

  74. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 7:57 am | Permalink

    https://nebula.wsimg.com/b83696585d9bb6452eec7283d74ebc26?AccessKeyId=A46309A05E2048F24273&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

    lol, what kind of fool would give this any credibility at all. If they guy is so influential, why can’t he write in complete sentences.

    Lizard people wooooooahhhhh fuuuuuck so haaaaaaiiiiii

  75. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 7:59 am | Permalink

    I don’t know what exopolitics is but they don’t understand what they are talking about. Q never said anything about reptilians at all. There are some 140,000 results on utube for qanon. None of those are made by Q. Interpretations may vary.

  76. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:01 am | Permalink

    ” If they guy is so influential, why can’t he write in complete sentences.”

    NAT SEC laws

  77. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    “NAT SEC laws”

    lol

  78. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:21 am | Permalink

    Yes, reality is so ridiculous right? Imagine paying so much attention to events you could go so far as to refer to federal law. It would be absurd. Right, Iron Dung?

  79. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:22 am | Permalink

    lol

    phuuuuuck

  80. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:24 am | Permalink

    Notice how whenever Iron Dung manages to string a sentence together his idea is easily destroyed. Then he goes to crack monkey mode.

  81. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    Woooahhhhh phuuuuck so haaai Kush420Qanon

    wheresthedogmancablesoffaluminumfoilonthewindows

  82. iRobert
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    HW and IL, have you two met in person?

    I might have met IL at some point over the years, but I don’t think I’ve met HW. Apparently, nobody knows who EOS is. He keeps his identity a well guarded secret for some reason.

    It would be great to organize a cocktail party where we could all wear name tags with our screen names on them.

    We could have Mark wear about a dozen name tags with each of the screen names he uses.

  83. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    I have never met the Mr. 420 Siberian Kushlord to my knowledge.

    “Trolling is fun.
    Hussein/Trump interior = identical minus small changes.
    (World) news in rear literally placed same prior to each departure.
    Placing that mug holder near the lamp was the hook.
    Enjoy!
    Q”

    The lamp, dude…. that’s like the capital building and the hook, dude, that’s like JJ Armes…. phuuuckkk JJARMES IS FIGHTING THE CABAL!!!!! WOOOOAHHHHH

  84. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:38 am | Permalink

    I have spoken with Iron Lung in person several times. His name and picture and blog are all over this site.

  85. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    I have never met the 420 Bongolian Kushlord to my knowledge.

    Clearly, though, he is like the JJ Armes of Ypsilanti.

  86. iRobert
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    Are you two cordial to one-another in person?

  87. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:43 am | Permalink

    You have no knowledge so that checks out. He knows for a fact I know who he is. Recently he set his blog to private.

  88. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    I never had a problem with this piece of excrement in real life but I do now.

  89. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    I have never met him to my knowledge, so who knows?

  90. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    “I never had a problem with this piece of excrement in real life but I do now.”

    More threats?

    lol

  91. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:45 am | Permalink

    This will be the fourth time I have been threatened by the 420 Bongolian Indicuslord

  92. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:45 am | Permalink

    “Freewheel Burning”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=206m_H8GzmY&frags=pl%2Cwn

  93. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:46 am | Permalink

    If you are threatened by someone who you harrass online having a problem with you then that is on you.

  94. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:47 am | Permalink

    Why the 420 Kushlord would post pro-Trump propaganda on a liberal blog and not expect to be insulted and ridiculed is puzzling to me.

    But it is fun.

  95. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:48 am | Permalink

    “If you are threatened by someone who you harrass online having a problem with you then that is on you.”

    lol

    Wow, so it is ok to threaten a person with physical violence over what goes on on a comments section of a blog.

    Wow.

  96. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:49 am | Permalink

    I never did that.

  97. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:50 am | Permalink

    Crack monkey time again of course.

  98. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:53 am | Permalink

    The person threatening the violence does not get to decide what does or does not constitute a threat.

    I took it as a threat, therefore it is. Given your drug use, your combative behavior, your obvious misogyny and your predilection toward threatening speech and obscenity, I have no choice to to take your threats of violence seriously, no matter how veiled they may be.

  99. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:55 am | Permalink

    I don’t expect ridicule and insults because I don’t treat people that way except in self-defense. You are compelled to do it because your reasoning ability is so weak.

  100. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    “I took it as a threat, therefore it is.”

    Bwahahahaha!!!

  101. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    *Actually* laughing at you, not just typing lol like you do.

  102. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:57 am | Permalink

    “I don’t expect ridicule and insults because I don’t treat people that way except in self-defense. You are compelled to do it because your reasoning ability is so weak.’

    Ridiculing a person’s ridiculous views on a political blog is par for the course.

    Threatening people with violence is another.

    Astounding that the Mr. Bonginator does not understand the difference.

  103. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:57 am | Permalink

    ” I have no choice to to take your threats of violence seriously, no matter how veiled they may be.”

    Call the cops then. I’d like to see what they say.

  104. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    Make sure you have all your “threats of violence” handy when you call.

  105. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    Classic.

    Instead of apologizing for threats of violence, he seeks to discredit the person being threatened with violence.

  106. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 9:09 am | Permalink

    See, you are full of shit aren’t you? If you are so threatened CALL THE POLICE.

  107. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    OMG he said he never had a problem with me but he does now! Threat of violence hahahaha!!!

  108. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    The worst thing I said was I WON’T beat you up but it will not be pleasant to deal me. OMG he said it won’t be pleasant! POLICE!!!

  109. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    Classic.

  110. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    “The worst thing I said was I WON’T beat you up but it will not be pleasant to deal me.’

    Why should I trust the guarantees of a person who makes threats to people he has never met, calls women “dumb bitches” and fetishizes political violence?

    Very strange.

  111. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    That’s right. And you are a classic bullshitter. You always have been. That’s why you have a PhD but you don’t even know what a 401k is. That’s why you tried to make music itself into a mockery, isn’t it? Oh, yeah sarcasm is just the funniest thing no matter how much you do it every day. It’s so funny I’m going to live in a world of sarcasm so dense I won’t even be able to communicate effectively any more!

  112. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    Very strange.

  113. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    crack monkey

    https://vimeo.com/35836723

  114. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 9:27 am | Permalink

    Very true

  115. iRobert
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 9:27 am | Permalink

    I’m wondering if I should pull an Obama and invite you two for a sit-down over a couple of beers.

    Honestly though, I am really wondering if there is a way we can take this in a direction from which we may all learn something.

  116. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 9:28 am | Permalink

    If anything, the Mr. Bongolian Sativalord’s posts here should be an indication that increased access to marijuana might have deleterious impacts on persons with mental health issues.

  117. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 9:28 am | Permalink

    “I am really wondering if there is a way we can take this in a direction from which we may all learn something.”

    Probably not.

  118. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 9:33 am | Permalink

    Look at yourself for once. I know you hate yourself and the whole world because your family treated you wrong but take some time to reflect on your behavior as painful as that must be.

  119. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 9:36 am | Permalink

    Crack monkeys don’t learn the easy way, iRobert.

  120. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    Very strange.

    I personally have learned quite a lot from the Mr. 420 Bonginator. I care nothing for him as an individual, but learning that he represents an entire subculture previously unknown to me has been incredibly interesting.

    On the one hand, ridiculing him has been entertaining, on the other hand, his responses are enlightening.

  121. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 9:38 am | Permalink

    They have to be shown. And they will. Illusions destroyed…

  122. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    Don’t see how you call twisting everything you can as much as you can “learning.” You are actually learning subconsciously. You ridicule truth as propaganda but you can’t help but see how it is going the way I said. How much bullshit did you say in response to what I said about collusion from the start? Now it’s turned out to be what? A bunch of steaming bullshit on a platter. So why do you love to serve up bullshit when it is you who has to take it home and live with it?

  123. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 9:46 am | Permalink

    “They have to be shown. And they will. Illusions destroyed…”

    lol

    If I did not find your ilk’s political views (read: fascism, misogyny) so repulsive and dangerous I would not bother.

  124. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 9:47 am | Permalink

    “You ridicule truth as propaganda but you can’t help but see how it is going the way I said.’

    lol

  125. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    That’s a reflection of yourself not a correct view of me. I am about as far from those things as possible without going too far and becoming their inversions like you.

  126. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 9:54 am | Permalink

    “That’s a reflection of yourself not a correct view of me. I am about as far from those things as possible without going too far and becoming their inversions like you.”

    Yes, I very much strive to be the “inversion” of a supporter of fascism and a misogynist.

  127. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    You love to be a communist misandrist. That’s great. Meanwhile I am still me and not what you think at all.

  128. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 10:00 am | Permalink

    “You love to be a communist misandrist. That’s great. Meanwhile I am still me and not what you think at all.’

    lol

  129. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    Funny from a certain odd perspective maybe but very true. You hold on to me calling an individual (who said way worse things about me) a dumb bitch out of sheer exasperation and pretend I was speaking of women in general. That’s your big weapon. Oh and Trump supporters are by definition fascist so there you go. You’ve really got me all wrapped up there.

  130. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    “Funny from a certain odd perspective maybe but very true. You hold on to me calling an individual (who said way worse things about me) a dumb bitch out of sheer exasperation and pretend I was speaking of women in general. That’s your big weapon. Oh and Trump supporters are by definition fascist so there you go. You’ve really got me all wrapped up there.’

    Lol

    “the bitch deserved it”

    lol

  131. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 10:15 am | Permalink

    Sure did. You act like it’s the most terrible thing ever to say the words dumb bitch. Jean Henry thought she could say all kinds of horrible things about me for a long time before that so I don’t see the problem.

  132. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    “so I don’t see the problem.’

    Maybe, just maybe, that is the problem?

  133. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    You are the problem. You murder a little bit more of the world every time you lie which is every time you open your mouth.

  134. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 10:22 am | Permalink

    “You are the problem. You murder a little bit more of the world every time you lie which is every time you open your mouth.”

    says the guy who doesn’t mind sending asylum seekers “back to where they came from”

    lol

    double lol

  135. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    Most current asylum cases are fraudulent. No one should be allowed to enter illegally and then claim asylum. You are the extremist with your open border fantasy. Your attempt to demonize people who want proper immigration has no weight.

  136. Jean Henry
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    HW— As I have said twice now. Adrenochrome exists. It is a derivation of epinephrine. I have an epic pen in my medicine cabinet if you would like to check it out. The idea that that adrenochrome is derived from the blood of living children full of adrenaline due to torture is a story made up by Hunter S Thompson in his classic Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. It’s not true. I documented all of this on the last thread that stretches into the hundreds.

    I wish I had the time to chase down all your bullshit but I don’t.

    iRobert: Q posts have 100,000 plus followers. The component parts of his theories are propagated as news by Hannity et al on Fox without expressly citing Q. Q theories have
    also been legitimized by Trump and co. Michelle Abrams at the NYT is covering it. The pizza gate attack was perpetrated by a follower of Q.

    First you defended HW. And insulted IL and I for lowering the level of discourse here. Now you dismiss him. I know you’ll never roll his back. And that’s fine. But open ridicule is an appropriate response to a regular prolific commenter who defends white supremacy and speaks regularly in the voice of a serial abuser.

    Fuck HW and fuck your standards of civility. Fuck also your dismissal of the primacy of the toxin of racism and your idea that dismantling structural racism would be easy. It’s just a matter of not hating. Fuck you twice for that complicit bullshit.

    Read the New Jim Crow and get back to me.

  137. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    “Most current asylum cases are fraudulent. No one should be allowed to enter illegally and then claim asylum. You are the extremist with your open border fantasy. Your attempt to demonize people who want proper immigration has no weight.”

    lol

  138. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    It’s fascist to reduce illegal immigration huh? Okay there. That’s going real far I’m sure.

  139. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 10:34 am | Permalink

    No, you really are on the lunatic fringe with that. You’ve fallen off the edge. That’s why the Democrats are going to lose big. It’s one of the reasons.

  140. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    “It’s fascist to reduce illegal immigration huh? Okay there. That’s going real far I’m sure.”

    lol

  141. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    “That’s why the Democrats are going to lose big. It’s one of the reasons.”

    lol

  142. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    So entertaining.

    lol

  143. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 10:43 am | Permalink

    That’s not saying anything. Why should anyone listen to that?

  144. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 10:51 am | Permalink

    I don’t remember EOS denying the holocaust. Like so many of the things you say it sounds so out of left field, IL. Can you offer a quote to back up your claim that EOS is a holocaust denier?

  145. iRobert
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    Again, Jean, I have no interest in joining in on the way you or IL engage HW. I’m not terribly against it, but I think a lot of observers would find it to be pointless regardless of what their political opinions might be.

    HW could be anyone as far as I know. They may be a child or a senior citizen. I wouldn’t know. Do you know the details of who HW is?

    I feel like being civil to HW. I don’t insist that IL or you be. I’m not concerned with what you, IL, or anybody else here does. This is nothing more than the comment section on a blog nobody reads. It might be different if HW has a show on Fox.

    All the commenters on this blog should get together over a beer, Obama mini-summit style.

  146. iRobert
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 11:34 am | Permalink

    I’m going to be watching the Croatia-England match at 2pm in Conor O’Neill’s if commenters want to come join me. If the game gets boring, we’ll talk about politics.

  147. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

    “I don’t remember EOS denying the holocaust. ”

    You might have missed it. EOS indicated that only a half a million Jews (rather than 6 million) died in the Holocaust, a common trope of Holocaust denial.

    http://www.projetaladin.org/holocaust/en/40-questions-40-answers/on-holocaust-denial.html

    http://www.socialstudies.org/sites/default/files/publications/se/5906/590607.html

    Like many things regarding white supremacy, I think that you have to be cognizant of the crumbs dropped. Most people are hesitant to come right out and say they are white supremacists, and many are in denial about being racists at all and some believe themselves not to be, but still fall into common tropes of white supremacy.

  148. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    She is free to defend herself, but stating that “half a million people died in the Holocaust” is denying the true extent of the Holocaust.

    You have to ask yourself why one would do that when it is well accepted that millions of Jews died in the Holocaust.

    It cannot be a simple slip of facts. Given that EOS makes crazy claims like “the Earth is 4,000 (or 3,000 or 6,000 or whatever) it is unlikely that stating this exact number “500,000” so common among statement from Holocaust deniers is a mere slip.

  149. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

    Again, Jean, I think this supposed call for civility you so often refer to is myth-making on your part. For the the tenth time: Nobody cares if you are nice to HW, EOS, or me. I am pretty sure HW and EOS do not even care. We are calling for accuracy , logic and for a drastic reduction in the fallacious reasoning that happens around here. If you guys can provide a quote where EOS denies the holocaust or HW talks about lizards then that would be a good first step toward repairing credibility. Also, can you persuade your friend, Lee, to clarify the 450 pregnant women to 125 babies born issue. Lee seems to think she addressed the issue but it was not clear at all and I read her comment several times.

  150. EOS
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

    I certainly don’t deny the Holocaust. I think IL had written that Trump was a Nazi and I made a reference to a number of persons killed by the Nazi’s and that nothing Trump has done can compare to the atrocity of the Nazi’s. I think there were more than 6 million killed. I apologize for the typo if that is what I did. I think I may have inadvertantly included a wrong number. I basically try to ignore everything written by IL because most often it is a blatant lie and I don’t feel the need to correct him over and over.

    I think Lee might be Jean, or maybe even IL. I made a point that was dismissed by Jean and “Lee” but you’re right. Their dismissal doesn’t make any sense. Shortly after IL started posting a number of times in order to bury the earlier thread.

    They want us to believe that they enroll 450 pregnant women, cherry pick 120 of those who are most likely to give birth to high weight babies, and don’t include the other 330 in their report of live births or baby weights or any of the statistical calculations over ten years. That way, they can claim a huge success for their program. If that’s true, it’s a poor use of taxpayer funds and a misrepresentation/falsification on the grant application.

  151. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

    “I apologize for the typo if that is what I did.”

    Fair enough.

  152. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

    ” I think IL had written that Trump was a Nazi ”

    Mr. Trump ran on a political campaign of white supremacy to garner the votes of racists.

    I could care less if Mr. Trump is a Nazi. Assuming he has a political ideology is a mistake.

  153. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

    Thanks EOS.

    Does it feel good to clear that up IL?

  154. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    “Does it feel good to clear that up IL?”

    It doesn’t matter. EOS’ professed sympathies to white nationalists and the quip about finding ways for police to crack down on black people to avoid accusations of racial bias are still there.

    That EOS is a bigot has long been established.

  155. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

    Does anyone in the whole world actually care for this miserable scumbag? His whole life is sitting and typing lies about people.

  156. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    “It does not matter.”

    Getting clear on a fact does not matter? Facts don’t matter? Demonstrating that you have been repeating a falsehood does not matter?

    Didn’t someone here call you a nihilist once? Any truth to the nihilism charge, do you think? Does it matter?

  157. Iron Lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

    “Does anyone in the whole world actually care for this miserable scumbag? His whole life is sitting and typing lies about people.”

    lol

    Phuuuuck 420 lizardpeopleadrenochromegetsohaaaaaai fuck where’s the cat it must be stooooooooooooooooned

  158. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    “It doesn’t matter”

    Are these men the nazis Walter?

    No Donny, these men are nihilists, there is nothing to be afraid of.

    Are these men going to hurt us?

    No Donny, these men are cowards.

  159. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

    “HW— As I have said twice now. Adrenochrome exists. It is a derivation of epinephrine. I have an epic pen in my medicine cabinet if you would like to check it out. The idea that that adrenochrome is derived from the blood of living children full of adrenaline due to torture is a story made up by Hunter S Thompson in his classic Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. It’s not true. I documented all of this on the last thread that stretches into the hundreds.”

    You idiot. Hunter Thompson ran with the people who extract adrenochrome from victims. Read The Franklin Coverup, dipshit. Paul Bonacci’s diary was examined by a Nebraska State Senator who originally wanted to disprove the Frankling case. In the early Bonacci recorded that Hunter Thompson piloted the helicopter that took him to a place with big trees and a 40 foot owl (Bohemian Grove.) Thompson filmed a snuff movie there that Bonacci was forced to be a part of.

  160. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    Franklin… In the early *80’s*

  161. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    Those innocent old guys wouldn’t do any ill shit like that though, would they? They just want to get out in nature and forget all their cares for a while.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTVTk3_lttw&frags=pl%2Cwn

  162. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

    The FBI railroaded the poor survivors of the Franklin/D.C. abuse ring. Alicia Owens spent life in prison for telling the truth about it. I posted the vid more than once already. It even contains a recording of an FBI-monitored conversation between Troy Boner and Alicia Owens where he is trying to get her to lie and recant her testimony. Boner told her he wasn’t going down for her and recanted.

  163. Iron lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

    Looks like medical marijuana places are associated with increased property crime and theft in areas proximal to them.

    Pot smokers should be jailed without trial. Maybe executed on TV by pregnant asylum seekers from Honduras.

  164. Iron lung
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

    Lizaaaard people child sex ring adrenochrome so haaaai phuuuuck qanon like bongs hitznot net sec laws phuuuuuck kill the leakers 420kushindicapowaaaa

  165. Jean Henry
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

    HW’s rabbit hole is immense.

    EOS and FF— Lee Roosevelt is a midwife/nurse practitioner (think I got that right) and professor. I called her to this ridiculous discussion to clarify, as she is a busy and competent woman. I doubt she will be back, but her credentials are easy to verify.

    This just shows how persistent false narratives are even in the face of expert opinion.

    To be clear, again, saying x number of babies of xx participants will meet the target weight gain does not mean the babies who did not meet the target were not born…

    The other data cited include breast feeding and those who were predicted to receive what met the grants criteria as ‘adequate prenatal care.’ Of the enrolled pregnant and at risk women not all will show up for every appointment, and so the standard of care (more than 5 visits) may not be met in all cases. One would be nuts to assume those women aborted their fetuses just because they didn’t meet that standard. Obviously some women will choose breast feeding; others will not. Those who don’t arent presumed to be aborting their children!!! And yet EOS makes that assumption about babies who don’t make target birth weight…

    Does that make clear the leap EOS made to reach her sick and demented conclusion?

    FF, once again your double standard is on display. You give EOS’ accusations of eugenics at PP the benefit of the doubt, requiring only disproof, and, even when that’s offered by an expert, you can’t accept it. But IL’s much more plausible accusations of holocausr denial and white nationalism and sexism and madness are beyond the pale, and require more proof even when those opinions are clearly observably plausible with abundant evidence in EOS and HW’s own words. As well as in the culture at large under Trump.

    I’m going to leave you all to your madness. This is an absurd pursuit.

    What makes me most upset is that people like iRobeet and SAD don’t see the danger of the fake news/false narratives generated by EOS and HW, even as we live under Trump, a man elected in large part because so many Americans do believe this bullshit.

    It’s too nice out in the world lately for this madness.

  166. Sad
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 6:18 pm | Permalink

    Sorry. I see now that my lengthy discussions with a EOS and HW have allowed them to promulgate their alternative world views.

    Apologies.

  167. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 6:29 pm | Permalink

    Jean,

    Her appeal to authority was obvious….That she addressed the actual issue was not obvious at all. That we should just accept her response as a stand-in for an explanation of the issue raised is laughable…

    Listen, I have had good experiences dealing with the people at PP. I have also protested, face to face, in a pretty aggressive way, when I have witnessed the actions of over the line anti abortion protestors. It does not matter though because, even though I probably do not agree with EOS on this issue, in general, EOS did point out something interesting and I would like to know more about it…

  168. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

    You are so full of shit, Jean. You think just because you make a stupid-ass claim it is true. Then you talk it up with way too many words. “clearly observably plausible with abundant evidence” – bull fucking shit. Karma’s going to get you for what you do; equal but opposite reaction.

  169. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    That there is truth behind IL’s accusations is not easily observable at all, in fact, his accusations are easily proven to be baseless lies propped up by his mis -assumptions in service to his extreme bias.

  170. Jean Henry
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

    FF– Feel free to do your own independent research from now on then FF. I think presuming a not very secret eugenics program has been funded by the county is a bit of a stretch. Clearly you are willing to give EOS the benefit of the doubt even when her misinterpretation of the data was made clear. So please call the county and ask them about that program for eugenics that they funded 10 years ago.I honestly don’t know why you are here, as you clearly are not reading the posts or just don’t understand sarcasm but feel free to comment on their ‘logic’ while holding a double standard/soft spot for the positions of anti-science conspiracy theorists. It makes my head explode.

    Corrupt without being charming as I have said before.

    HW– I’m happy to accpryt any fate coming to me. Should I post the paedogeddon fake news show again? Nah. Too easy. This is for EOS. It’s unbearable but then so is she.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-J3iTZuARQ

  171. iRobert
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    “What makes me most upset is that people like iRobeet and SAD don’t see the danger of the fake news/false narratives generated by EOS and HW, even as we live under Trump, a man elected in large part because so many Americans do believe this bullshit.” – Jean

    Jean, I think I do understand the danger of what EOS and HW say here…nearly zero danger. What horrible things have occurred as a result of the things EOS and HW have said here? What horrorific dangers do you imagine will come from their comments here?

  172. Jean Henry
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 7:09 pm | Permalink

    iRobert– How many times do we need to point out that they are mere pawns in two twining and much larger persistent cultural narratives. It does matter to confront false narratives, especially those that legitimize a tyrant.

    Have you zero sense of history? Even our most recent history?Your sense of the individual over the collective is quite strong I can see, unfortunately history shows us that the truly independent mind is a rare thing and most of us are susceptible to being conned.

    I honestly cant believe that we are having this oncversation post Trump’s election.

    You must be sitting pretty, far removed from any risk, to have no sense whatsoever of the need to resist the narratives that elected Trump.

  173. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 7:13 pm | Permalink

    Post whatever you want. You defend the worst crimes imaginable by trying to ridicule the fact that they happen.

  174. iRobert
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

    Jean, regardless of how horrible you or I might think it is that Trump is president, or how horrible it is that Trump is president, it isn’t such a big deal that a few people who support Trump are here sharing their take on things.

    You are really overdramatizing what’s happening here on this little, very insignificant comment section. You aren’t engaged in a crusade here, and HW and EOS aren’t committing some awful crime against humanity here. You really should get out more often.

  175. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

    “How many times do we need to point out that they are mere pawns in two twining and much larger persistent cultural narratives. It does matter to confront false narratives, especially those that legitimize a tyrant.”

    You support the tyrants. You lie for them and try to make people who tell the truth out to be crazy. You will have enough understanding to know it is true soon. Trump is taking them down with good reason.

  176. eos
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

    “Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, a reliable supporter of abortion rights, has described Roe v. Wade as being a decision about population control, “particularly growth in populations that we don’t want to have too many of.” ”

    Lothrop Stoddard, author of The Rising Tide of Color against White World Supremacy, might be gratified to note that, in Planned Parenthood’s hometown of New York City, a black woman is more likely to have an abortion than to give birth: 29,007 abortions to 24,108 births in 2013. African Americans represent about 12 percent of the population and about 36 percent of the abortions; Catholics, disproportionately Hispanic and immigrant, represent 24 percent. In total, one in five U.S. pregnancies (excluding miscarriages) ends in abortion, and most women who have abortions already have at least one child. The overwhelming majority of them (75 percent, as Guttmacher reckons it) are poor. The public record includes no data about the “feebleminded” or otherwise “unfit,” but the racial and income figures suggest that Planned Parenthood is today very much functioning as its Progressive-era founders intended.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2017/06/12/planned-parenthood-racist-history/

    Jean doesn’t have a clue. She ridicules me and claims that I am promoting fake news and a false narrative and scoffs that the media would not allow eugenics to be openly practiced today. Sad fact is they know.

  177. Lynne
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 9:21 pm | Permalink

    So what are you saying? That we could significantly reduce abortions by stepping up anti-poverty programs? I am all for that approach! If it were really about ending abortions rather than punishing women for having sex, we could accomplish it by making birthcontrol cheap and widely availavle AND by implementing major anti-poverty programs. I’ll bet a UBI would do a lot to significantly reduce abortions.

  178. Jean Henry
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 9:24 pm | Permalink

    The woman who conducted that RBG interview gets clarification on the point which was taken out of context by conservative writers and still persists in Anti-abortion circles as part of their fraudulent eugenics argument. Not that EOS will accept any of this….:

    “The history lesson is this: There was a feminist women’s rights argument for legal abortion in the 1970s, which the Supreme Court accepted in Roe v. Wade. And there was a separate and distinct argument about preventing population growth by being pro-abortion, made by groups like Zero Population Growth, which the court did not accept, not in Roe and not later. Justice Ginsburg herself has never made a population control argument for abortion. These were two different rationales promoted by two different movements. Justice Ginsburg touched on this today as well. She said that in the 1970s, when the ACLU women’s rights project sought funding from the Rockefeller Foundation—one of the groups worrying about overpopulation—the foundation “was not interested in the women’s rights business.”

    Justice Ginsburg also made it clear today that the issue she had in mind when we spoke in 2009 was concern about population growth among all classes (and races). In the end, if that concern has a legacy, it’s in the promotion of contraception. But of course social conservatives never want birth control to be the focus of a discussion about reproductive rights, because on that ground they lose.”

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2012/10/ruth_bader_ginsburg_clears_up_her_views_on_abortion_population_control_and.html

  179. Jean Henry
    Posted July 11, 2018 at 9:32 pm | Permalink

    It was actually fascinating to see that quote go from being ripped out of context in the National Review to* sugges*t that RBG might have some sympathy with a eugenics argument to full fledged assertion that PP is a govt funded eugenics program.
    It’s like the ideological telephone game.
    Convenient speculative political argument withholding context or precedent on line one.
    Confirmation bias on line two.
    Conspiracy theory on line three.
    Accusation that Jean’s a lying lying liar whose pants are on fire line four.
    Some cis, straight, white, middle aged, able bodied dude (who is not IL) weighing in that we need to be respectful of other people’s views, what harm could they possibly do on line five.

    It’s the Ypsi free telephone service.

  180. iRobert
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 5:11 am | Permalink

    “It does matter to confront false narratives, especially those that legitimize a tyrant.”.- Jean

    What matters most, is how and where you confront them.

  181. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 6:14 am | Permalink

    How is it not eugenics? It was started by a eugenicist for the purpose of eugenics. We know that from Sanger’s words. They tout that over half of their clinics are in rural and underserved areas. Fire up those brain cells and think: why might a eugenics program be located in rural and underserved areas?

  182. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    Regarding indicting a sitting president:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/05/22/can-the-president-be-indicted-or-subpoenaed/?utm_term=.3c6a8355084f

    “…according to Giuliani, “a deputy to Mueller followed up a few days later in a phone call to clarify that the special counsel plans to follow the Justice Department guidelines”; those guidelines say a sitting president can be impeached but not indicted.”

  183. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 7:49 am | Permalink

    If you want Trump charged with a crime (for what?) you have to impeach first.

  184. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 7:52 am | Permalink

    For those seeking an introduction to Q Anon:

    https://www.neonrevolt.com/2018/07/11/who-is-qanon-an-introduction-to-the-qanon-phenomenon-qanon-greatawakening/

  185. Jean Henry
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    “What matters most, is how and where you confront them.” — I agree. We simply disagree on the answer. Your apparent supposition that I have not thought through my actions in this or any forum is inaccurate, iRobert.
    What I see happening here is the defense of the indefensible by people with very little at stake in the outcome of the current political climate and focused on the aspects of the Trump presidency that most impact them personally. These commenters are relatively insulated compared to the people whose political perspectives they question.
    But thanks for all the pointers on civility. I can assure you they will be disregarded.

  186. Jean Henry
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    HW– you bore me.

  187. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    Why should I care about that?

  188. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    Strzok: “We’ll stop him.”

    How is he going to defend his own words?

  189. EOS
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    https://www.lifeissues.org/2017/02/investigation-planned-parenthood-speeds-targeting-minorities/

  190. Iron Lung
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 9:48 am | Permalink

    yawn

  191. Eel
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    Trump: “I like to grab ’em by the pussy without consent.”

    How is he going to defend his own words?

  192. Eel
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    Strzok should just say “locker room talk”.

  193. Iron Lung
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    But Xtians prayed for this grand pussy grabbing savior to come and save the unborn, essentially forcing people to vote against their will.

    It’s like Christians can’t simply let people do what they want. They have to have some divine despot manipulate peoples’ minds to satisfy the ridiculous demands of a few religious zealots.

  194. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 12:01 pm | Permalink

    Too bad he didn’t say the without consent part.

  195. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

    Weak attempt at deflecting the heat on Peter Strzok right now.

  196. Eel
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

    Listen to the tape and tell me that he was implying consent. I’ll wait.

  197. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    He says right in it when you are a star they let you do it which is the definition of consent. They consent or let you grab them by the pussy. There you go.

  198. Iron Lung
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

    “He says right in it when you are a star they let you do it which is the definition of consent. They consent or let you grab them by the pussy. There you go.”

    Wooooahhhh fuuuck dude, youcan just touch allthedumbbitches 420soooooostoned where’sthepussy,ohfuckdeadinthecarforgottocleanthelitterbox phhhhhuuuuuck jesterbongalert420yoccbdinmyeyes

  199. Iron Lung
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

    #MeToo phuuckkk women are bitches sluts andshit justlovemoney 420TRUMP candowhathe wants

  200. Iron Lung
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

    “He says right in it when you are a star they let you do it which is the definition of consent. They consent or let you grab them by the pussy. There you go.’

    lol typical men’s rights misogynistic crap

    Trump is an embarrassment. Normal men don’t say shit like he did, even in a locker room, unless they are 16 year old neanderthals, which is somewhat insulting to neanderthals.

  201. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

    He was a playboy with beautiful women throwing themselves at him. I think most normal men would think of that as a great life.

  202. Iron Lung
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

    “He was a playboy with beautiful women throwing themselves at him. I think most normal men would think of that as a great life.”

    Yeah, dude, just who we need as a President, a slimy dude who uses his money to get women to have sex with him.

    Trump was gross then, he is gross now. Most “normal men” would think he was gross. Powerless and ineffectual men (i.e. pubescent losers) might idolize him.

  203. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    Hillary Clinton called her husband’s assault victims “bimbos” so big fucking deal. He was a horndog who saw a lot of action with willing participants. If Bill had a problem with a (non-consensual) rape or groping victim it was a “bimbo eruption.”

  204. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

    *Trump* was a horndog…

  205. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

    You are the powerless one. You even insist it yourself. That’s why you hate someone like me who has knowledge and you know what knowledge equals.

  206. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    Haha, where is Eel at?

  207. Jean Henry
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    ‘He says right in it when you are a star they let you do it which is the definition of consent. They consent or let you grab them by the pussy. There you go.‘

    I have had men grab my crotch and just about every other part of my body without consent. In most cases I was working as a waitress and would have lost my job had I objected in any way other than to angle my way out of their grasp. I’ve had my ass grabbed at least 10 times while pushing a stroller, and for many of those I was over 40. And no I didn’t give them permission.

    Affirmative consent requires three things: 1) ask for permission 2) don’t act until receiving affirmative permission (not saying anything is NOT consent) 3) stop if and when asked.

    Pretty simple. If I were to, say, sucker punch you on the street, and you were too stunned to respond immediately that would be a non-consensual assault.

    And if you don’t think any person has ever been punched consensually, you clearly have not adequately explored the concept.

    PS I’m taking this as further confirmation that you are likely an abusive prick (since you are clearly someone who excuses abusive pricks). Also likely a prude.

    People who condone sexual abuse and abusers most not like sex very much. That’s just a logical conclusion. People who enjoy sex don’t want a lot of damaged partners floating around.

  208. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

    You are the abusive one. Listen to yourself. Trying to insinuate lies about me. You support the abusers. You abuse people who don’t support them. Your whole life is a lie.

  209. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

    You can’t help but think about my sex life, huh? I’m living in your head rent free. Actually that sounds horrible – I would never do that. Only in your dreams. Anyway I get some of the hottest action around just about every night so there you go – wrong again as always.

  210. Jean Henry
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    Uh huh. It’s true HW. You are my dream man. I can’t get you out of my mind.

    I have to wonder though if your partner would ever dare tell you what they want much less if they were unsatisfied.

    Just a question that occurs, knowing how many women fake sexual satisfaction to just get it over with when their partners are inadequate to the task.

    But it’s true, my dream guy is a self-inflated, paranoid, know it all bigot who believes consent is not fighting back.

    Sounds like a dream date.

  211. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

    Strzok sounds like a douche. Trying to ape Comey’s style as much as possible to try to survive this but just sounds like an idiot.

  212. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

    Nobody’s banging you I guarantee it. I would like to see the man who would.

  213. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

    Only lost drunken sperm could ever find their way into Jean Henry hahahaha!!!

  214. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 6:35 pm | Permalink

    There is a spectrum of meanings of the word “consent”. I think only 2 states have laws that incorporate Jean’s specific meaning of the word “consent” as the required threshold sexual partners must pass through to be considered 100% consensual.

  215. Jean Henry
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

    FF —Do you believe that Trumps own description of his own behavior constitutes the standard legal definition of sexual assault or not?

    HW believes it does.

    While affirmative consent is not yet explicitly required in most states, unwanted grabbing of the genitalia and forced kissing are illegal. It’s hard to prove unwanted touch. But in this case, the president’s own account indicates forcible kissing and grabbing.

    HW’s position is that if they didn’t fight him, it wasn’t forcible even if he never asked and Just went in.

    What’s your position FF?

  216. Jean Henry
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

    HW imagines that the worst thing that could happen to a woman is being considered undesirable by men, especially men like him. This demonstrates his complete lack of understanding of the lives and minds of women. Or consideration for them as anything but objects of desire or derision.

    I will cry myself to sleep tonight knowing aam like HW doesn’t find me attractive. What a loss.

  217. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 7:44 pm | Permalink

    Kookoo

  218. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

    Strzok is fzoked.

  219. Sad
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 10:04 pm | Permalink

    Those young POCs from DAY are busy. Getting people registered to vote, going to meetings, forming alliances, getting shit done.

    And you all are debating Lizard men , McDonalds, and who’s sleeping with what?

    Shame on you.

    There will be a post Trump world and some people are making it now.

  220. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 10:36 pm | Permalink

    I’m talking about real shit that is happening today. Just try to mentally edit out the deranged ramblings of Jean and Iron Dung. The only reason I talk to them is because I think it is great to see them get fucked up as more of what I say comes true. Just recently Jean was talking about Strzok being a low level employee who could have no effect on anything. He led the Clinton “midyear” investigation and started the Trump investigation! It’s pure asinine ignorance to say what they do but they try to project it everywhere but back onto theirselves.

  221. Sad
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 10:53 pm | Permalink

    I agree HW.

    You’re doing your part, representing the Trump true believer. Facing off against the liberal elite.

    These dialogues will be a record of our time.

    Thanks.

  222. Sad
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 10:57 pm | Permalink

    How about a song HW? It’s been a long time since you’ve shared one.

    Something that says where we’re at.

  223. Jean Henry
    Posted July 12, 2018 at 11:32 pm | Permalink

    Is DAY getting people registered to vote so they can vote third party like so many of their most vocal members did?
    That’s really going to change the world.
    I wish them luck. They are strong and can take a little ribbing.
    Such is yhte nature of activism an advocacy.

  224. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 4:55 am | Permalink

    “FF —Do you believe that Trumps own description of his own behavior constitutes the standard legal definition of sexual assault or not?”

    I wish it was obvious to you but it does not make sense to answer your question with a simple “yes” or “no”. The context within which an instance of actual touching occurs matters. How the actual touch is actually received matters. Actual non verbal cues, indicating implicit consent (or not) within actual instances of touching, matters. The legal question itself is only triggered in actual instances of touch after there is a complaint from the alleged victim of unwanted touch….

    You made the a claim twice:

    “HW’s position is that if they didn’t fight him then it wasn’t forcible.”

    “[HW] believes consent is not fighting back….”

    HW did not make those claims. On what grounds can you assume that is what HW believes? You offered a definition of consent that has a higher standard for what constitutes permission than is recognized by 96% of states. You then, seemingly, as if you thought you were performing a magic trick, proposed that not acknowledging and submitting to your narrow definition of consent, is the equivalent of holding the view that “fighting back” is the only form of expressing non consent. Everyone knows there are a variety of ways non-consent can be communicated non-verbally and verbally. I suspect that everyone, except rapists and dishonest-online-slander-artists, know perfectly well that there is a moral and legal responsibility on the part of the initiator of touching to be sensitive to context, verbal, and non verbal cues that express consent or non-consent on the part of the recipient of a touch. There are varying degrees of sensitivity to implicit consent. Do I think, based upon the transcript, that Trump is someone who is probably not very sensitive toward reading implicit consent? Yes I do. But, even as Trumpis discussing touching in a context I would describe as locker room talk he appears to have some sense (albeit small sense) of the nuances:context matters, implicit consent matters, cues matter; whereas you are willing to pretend like those cues toward consent don’t factor in, in your forced non-nuanced way, arguing that only the notion of explicit affirmative consent counts, so that you can perchance set-up an opportunity to slander your fellow forum member.

    Gross.

  225. Jean Henry
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 6:38 am | Permalink

    Wow.

    You are truly a person of noble character, FF. Bravo.

  226. Jean Henry
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 6:40 am | Permalink

    I suppose, at least, you have made the argument for the need for affirmative consent laws very very clear.

  227. Jean Henry
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 6:44 am | Permalink

    PS I have no need to slander you, you do all the work yourselves.

    I do find it interesting that your definition of what constitutes slander is so loose and outside the accepted legal parameters set under the first amendment, but your definition of assault is demands strict construction.

    Careful, your bias is showing.

  228. John Brown
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 7:02 am | Permalink

    Holy smokes JH, IL, Sad, Do you get it now? Liberals must arm themselves against trump lizardmen or we’re all going to be cricket food.

    HW, thank you for being such an effective recruitment tool.

  229. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 7:15 am | Permalink

    Here you go, Sad. A kick-ass way to start your day:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0SlPI1PPos&frags=pl%2Cwn

  230. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 7:29 am | Permalink

    Turn the volume down on antifa getting beat up and use it as a soundtrack.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wldrCUi5n4&frags=pl%2Cwn

  231. Iron Lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 7:51 am | Permalink

    “HW’s position is that if they didn’t fight him then it wasn’t forcible.”

    I would say, based on his posts, that this is likely the 420 Siberian Kushlord’s position.

    I doubt that he has any appreciation for how slimebags like Donald Trump use power and position to extract sex out of women where they can.

    Simply saying “the bitches threw them at him” is pretty disrespectful to victims of sexual assault everywhere. It is doubtful that Trump was as overtly abusive as Harvey Weinstein, for example, but he still doesn’t deserve a free pass. All people in power need to have their behavior scrutinized, because the potential for abuse is extremely high.

    It doesn’t matter who they are. It is the level of power and position they hold.

    Trump is just a slimebag. That was his brand for years and he sold it to the Howard Stern/shock radio/trailer park TV crowd and it worked for him. He sold a stupid man’s vision of “wealth” to people who begged to be exploited.

  232. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 8:03 am | Permalink

    You are the slimebag saying things like that about good people.

  233. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 8:24 am | Permalink

    I’m surprised there is anything left of you you are so consumed by hate. What kind of person sits around typing lies about people all day every day?

  234. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 8:38 am | Permalink

    The act of “slander” has 779 synonyms and less than 80 antonyms. Pick A synonym that is more suitable, if you want.

    It’s like receiving messages from Opposite Land: You were the one who was proposing a strict construction of the term “consent” as it is NOT set forth in 96% of the states. I was advocating for a nuanced and broader definition of the concept as it is applied in actual life and actual law.

  235. Iron Lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 8:45 am | Permalink

    “You are the slimebag saying things like that about good people.”

    “I’m surprised there is anything left of you you are so consumed by hate. What kind of person sits around typing lies about people all day every day?”

    That Trump is a complete slimebag has been long established. That was his brand. Perhaps the 420 Bongolian Sativalord was too stoned throughout the 90s to remember. Perhaps he might revisit some of Trumps Howard Stern appearances.

  236. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    Established in your cancer-ridden brain maybe.

  237. Iron Lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 9:00 am | Permalink

    “Established in your cancer-ridden brain maybe.”

    lol

  238. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    It’s been well established for a while you are seriously ill.

  239. Iron Lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    “It’s been well established for a while you are seriously ill.”

    lol

    For having an opinion on a public figure?

    lol

  240. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 9:20 am | Permalink

    For everything you do. You lie every single day. You are totally consumed by whatever it is that drives you. It’s bizarre. You are going down as one of the biggest scumbags in the blogosphere and that is saying a LOT. Stiff competition around here from people like Jean.

  241. Iron Lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    “For everything you do. You lie every single day. You are totally consumed by whatever it is that drives you. It’s bizarre. You are going down as one of the biggest scumbags in the blogosphere and that is saying a LOT. ”

    lolololol

  242. Iron Lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    Gems like that make commenting on this blog worthwhile.

  243. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 9:33 am | Permalink

    You devolve into meaningless mockery immediately every day too just like that. You can’t even keep a coherent line of thought at all. You are a pinhead that lies constantly.

  244. Iron Lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 9:36 am | Permalink

    “You devolve into meaningless mockery immediately every day too just like that. You can’t even keep a coherent line of thought at all. You are a pinhead that lies constantly.”

    lol

    Endless entertainment.

  245. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    Entertainment for a pinhead.

  246. Iron Lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    “Entertainment for a pinhead.”

    lolol

    Sooo haaaaai dude woahwheresthecat prolly in the car dead 420equalspropertytheftneardispensiaries cbd oils all over my body take a bath in THC ICP Psychopathicrekkids 420NoTrump TrumpTHCSlime rubbed in my eeeeeeyyyyyyyyyes

    lol

  247. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 9:47 am | Permalink

    like I said

  248. Iron Lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    “like I said”

    Woooaaaah phuuck I can’t recall JeffSessionsDOJsohaiCBDovaloffice phuuuuuckkkk dank4Lyfe

  249. Iron Lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 10:03 am | Permalink

    Dude, check it out, you can do weed in your anus. This is how Trump does it dude see he doesn’t have cancer because he’s GOT MARIJUANA IN HIS RECTUM Phuuuuuuuckkkkkkkk

    https://www.thecbdistillery.com/product/cbdays-150mg-cbd-suppositories/

  250. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 10:05 am | Permalink

    I know someone who’s father had rectal cancer. He used his son’s cannabis concentrate in exactly that fashion. There is no way to know if it was the concentrate that did it but his tumor went away.

  251. Iron Lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    “I know someone who’s father had rectal cancer. He used his son’s cannabis concentrate in exactly that fashion. There is no way to know if it was the concentrate that did it but his tumor went away.”

    Probably had zero to do with the snakeoil butt pills, but somebody made some money so there’s that AND YOU GET TO GET HAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIII PHUUUUUUCK MAGNETSHOWDOTHEYWORK

  252. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    How many people are reading this and getting a sickening feeling about Iron Lung?

  253. Iron Lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    lol

  254. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 10:34 am | Permalink

    “It doesn’t matter.”

    –Iron Lung

  255. Iron lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 10:47 am | Permalink

    Right wingers unite!

    Lol

  256. Iron lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 10:51 am | Permalink

    This blog used to be filled with liberals, now it is filled with rightwingers, apologists for white supremacy and crazy skywizard pro life militants.

    Sad.

  257. Iron lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 10:55 am | Permalink

    Can CBD cure fascism? If so I am for it.

  258. Lynne
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 10:59 am | Permalink

    RE: “It doesn’t matter who they are. It is the level of power and position they hold.”

    This is absolutely important! We really must scrutinize those in power all of the time. It is so easy for corruption to occur and the only thing that prevents it is for the public to pay attention. This is, imho, why it is so worrying that our press is being attacked of late. We need them. Most citizens simply don’t have the resources to investigate those in power. And it really doesn’t matter who has the power. It doesn’t matter what their political party is. It doesn’t matter what their gender is (although interestingly women in power seem less rapey than men in power but maybe that is a false perception). It doesn’t matter what their race is or their religion or really anything about them other than the power itself. It is the power that corrupts.

  259. Jean Henry
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    FF– Slander has a legal definition as well as a colloquial one. So does consent.

    I was using ‘consent’ in exactly the same way you were using ‘slander.’

    I believe Trump’s behavior– as he describes it– constitutes assault, because consent was not offered. But, I never called for his prosecution. Why? I understand that lack consent is very hard to prove in court because implied consent is so malleable a legal standard.

  260. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    We are all going to find out who has really been in power and bringing the whole world down. Trump is the face of a group of people who have been planning to take them down since the JFK assassination coup.

  261. Iron lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 11:07 am | Permalink

    These guys fetishize powerful men because weak bitches just deserve what they get.

    Flakes and the kushlord are old school misogynists.

  262. Iron lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    Gonna take down the lizard cabal!

    Lololol

  263. Iron lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    Adrenochrome farmz will be expoooooosed

    Lololol

  264. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    Trump meeting with an old shrew right now. I half expect her flying monkey guards to turn and fire on the prez. It’s probably her best chance of survival.

  265. Iron lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    A “prediction!”

    Lololol

  266. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    What would someone do if they mocked adrenochrome extraction from human beings and it turned out to be true? I can’t imagine the moment of realization; how devastating that would be and how remorseful.

  267. Jean Henry
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    On a side note, I was once driving an acquaintance from Ann Arbor to NYC. He had offered to go with me, but I soon found out he could neither drive nor afford to pitch in for gas money. Somewhere in Pennsylvania, he started questioning the amount of coffee I was drinking. “I gave up coffee 4 months ago and I feel great. I do get a coffee enema twice a week. But that doesn’t get absorbed into the body” I did not put him out of the car. I was nicer back then.

    That guy drove cab in town for years and was an advocate for the homeless. He used to come into the diner where I worked, sit down at a seat with uncleared dishes and eat what was left on the plate. Pretty sure he’s harvesting weed in CA now. He probably drives a BMW.

  268. Iron lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 11:20 am | Permalink

    “What would someone do if they mocked adrenochrome extraction from human beings and it turned out to be true? I can’t imagine the moment of realization; how devastating that would be and how remorseful.”

    Bwwwwahahahah lolololol

    Phuuuck dude lizaaard people cbdoilsupmyanus phuuuck

    Lolololol

  269. Jean Henry
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    HW– The North Koreans have said the summit was a mistake, they are not denuclearizing and they just failed to show up for a meeting about returning US POW remains.

    All of this has happened in past negotiations with them.

    Things are exactly how they were.

    Plus Trump just kissed NATO’s ass publicly after getting nothing at all from them in negotiations.

    He also got nothing from May but scorn.

    Which if your predictions are coming true again?

    Oh that’s right Trump is heading up a movement to expose corruption, end child trafficking and make America Great Again.

    And you are always right.

    Got it.

  270. Iron lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    Hey man, i heard the moon landing was faked. The movies were made by francis coppola. There were messages in the Shining. Phhuuuuuuck top secret yo cbdupmyass put a bag of weed in my anus never got buttcanceryo magnetspsychpathic4lyyyyyfe trumpstalinhitlermugabe allhottttdudes yo smokinuptokinuppotemkinputin reeedthesiiijgnsssswoooah

  271. Iron lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    Hey man, i heard the moon landing was faked. The movies were made by francis coppola. There were messages in the Shining. Phhuuuuuuck top secret yo cbdupmyass put a bag of weed in my anus never got buttcanceryo magnetspsychpathic4lyyyyyfe trumpstalinhitlermugabe allhottttdudes yo smokinuptokinuppotemkinputin reeedthesiiijgnsssswoooah

  272. Iron Lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 11:42 am | Permalink

    The Kushlord and EOS like to believe in scary fairy tales and push their fucked up ideologies and usher in tyranny, all the while claiming to the be the victims.

    The Flakes has no real ideology, he just wants us to be nice to fairy tale sect, essentially legitimizing their fucked up worldviews.

  273. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 11:59 am | Permalink

    “These guys fetishize powerful men because weak bitches just deserve what they get.”

    You are lying again Iron Lung. I beleive in training and educating young people and adults to be sensitive to verbal and non- verbal cues so that instances of sexual assault and rape can be minimized. I also believe in strong punishments against perpetrators of sexual assault–especially serial assaulters. I also think it is good to talk about the idea of affirmative consent, but I also think, if it is encoded into the laws of more states it raises some problems in terms of practical implementation.

    You really are a habitual liar, IL.

    Sorry you no longer have mm.com as a safe space to spew falseities without being called out on it but that is the reality of the situation. For god’s sake do not get rid of the pseudonym “iron lung” and revert back to your real name until after you have straightened your act out. You have a long road n front of you.

  274. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 12:01 pm | Permalink

    You people were howling about Trump getting us into nuclear war with North Korea just months ago. Any nuclear tests since or rockets? Huh! Put your money on the deal falling apart if you want. You are going to be wrong again. You have to learn the haaard way.

  275. Jean Henry
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

    HW– None of us predicted nuclear war with North Korea. We said it was a risk. And that Trump, with his Rocket Man comments etc etc was playing with fire. You predicted denuclearization and said it was happening even before the summit. The opposite was true. You were wrong.
    We were not.
    Nice try.

    FF– Your position on affirmative consent etd, though different than mine sounds reasonable.
    Your defense of HW, and so Trump, is not.

  276. Iron Lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    “Your defense of HW, and so Trump, is not.”

    Agreed. Very strange. Not sure how you can advocate for “accuracy” while shielding a guy who believes in adrenochrome conspiracies.

    One can only assume that the Mr. Flakes is sympathetic to The Kushlord and thus Trump and thus white supremacy, since that is what Trump ran on. We are pretty sure Mr. Flakes voted for Mr. Trump, which is a pretty sound acceptance, and thus endorsement, of white supremacy.

    At the very least, it shows that Mr. Flakes is indifferent to racism in campaign politics in the US.

    It’s like the guy missed Lee Atwater. The Mr. Flakes takes peoples word literally, rather than looking at what lies underneath.

    Sad.

  277. Iron Lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

    “You are going to be wrong again.”

    Who cares? It’s not a competition. In the world of the 420 Bongonator Bushlord, one recieves a new helping on S&H Greenstamps when one gets a “prediction” right.

  278. Jean Henry
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

    President Trump once again came out for white Nationalism, this time European Nationalism warning of the dangers of losing their culture to immigration. Twice. He uses the same rhetoric to support anti-immigration measures in the US even though our primary cultural identity is ‘a nation of immigrants.’ So I wonder what cultural identity Trump is defending???

    Oh yeah right?

    Madeleine fucking Albright thinks Trump is proto-fascist. Someone at the bookstore was looking for her book the other day. The clerk said “Oh it’s in the Fascism section over there,’ as he pointed to New and Noteworthy.

  279. Jean Henry
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

    This almost made me sad to have missed the 9 hours of Strzok testimony. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siYIEmHOvDU&feature=youtu.be

    Almost.

    Yet another example of things not working out exactly as HW predicted with absolute certainly.

    PS Trey Gowdy looks like part of Hitler’s team.

  280. Jean Henry
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    Lest there be any confusion, I feel confident that when Colbert says “Back off Bitch or I will cut you,” in the above clip, he is not intending that as a direct threat but simply employing for emphasis a slang phrase in common usage.

  281. Iron Lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    “So I wonder what cultural identity Trump is defending???”

    I am just going to take a guess and say white people. I might be wrong, but that’s my best guess.

    Because Trump’s base are a bunch of racists and racial apologists….

    and flakes who can’t be bothered because, well, tax breaks and shit.

    But you know, I could be wrong. He might be talking about something else besides tribal nonsense.

  282. Iron Lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    Gonna be great (not) when the next bit of European ethnic cleansing starts up following Trumps (Putins) goal of breaking up the European Union.

    At least we will know who to blame.

  283. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

    You are the one trying to mock everything I say so every time you do that and it turns out my way you have to eat your words. Every document, indictment, scandal, international relations flap – everything I said was bullshit and you mocked me for has turned out to have SHIT to do with any kind of collusion or anything impeachable. What happened to Trump being gone before his first year was up? Fantasy. Trump will win two terms.

  284. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 2:20 pm | Permalink

    Yeah, it’s racist to not let millions of immigrants flood your country. I’m glad you say that kind of thing because it is making your party lose. Trump will not only retain control of both houses but will make gains and it is the lunatic fringe like you working frantically to make it happen. Your obsession with limits to immigration being racist is making you look insane, which you are.

  285. Iron Lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    “You are the one trying to mock everything I say”

    Yeah, pretty much.

    lol

  286. Jean Henry
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

    “Trump will not only retain control of both houses but will make gains “

    Another HW prediction so hyperbolizedcas to be impossible.

    Is someone keeping track of these sovwe can remind him when the time comes?

  287. Iron Lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

    “Trump will not only retain control of both houses but will make gains “

    lol

    King Trump rules over all.

  288. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

    Not only that but come election time the Democrat Party will be in shambles.

  289. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

    WWG1WGA!!!

  290. Iron Lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

    Why even bother having elections?

    What is so good about representative democracy anyway? Everything is already taken care of by King Trump.

  291. Jean Henry
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

    HW— How about we wait until the mueller investigation is concluded to talk about whether or not he found collusion.

    I think it’s unlikely he can prove it as far up as Trump, but he may find enough corruption in the process to take him down.

    Meanwhile a dozen new indictments came in Today for Russian interference. And many lines are being drawn between Trump associates and the Kremlin.

    And no indictment for Strozk yet…

    We’ve been more right than you. And none of us have claimed to be able to predict the future flawlessly, as you have.

    Apologies to HW’s defenders for pointing up the verifiable truth. I know that’s considered uncivil lately.

  292. Iron Lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

    “Not only that but come election time the Democrat Party will be in shambles.”

    lol

    Governance is not a sporting event. Just sayin.

  293. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

    Get acquainted with game theory.

  294. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

    You called me a conspiracy theorist for even talking about Strzok and Page. You were totally wrong on the facts, Jean. Strzok low level with no ability to impact the election? Totally wrong. You make assumptions to support your un-thought-out opinions and they always turn out wrong as shit.

  295. Iron Lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

    “Get acquainted with game theory.”

    lol

    Phuuuuuck woah dude like phuckinmathand shit wheres the dog? BAKIN’ YO PHUUUCCCCK SO FUNNY

  296. Iron Lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 2:45 pm | Permalink

    “You called me a conspiracy theorist ”

    Adrenochorome farms yo epsteinsexislandkidsgettinadrenocrhomesucks outlizard people dank shift qanon yo putin phuuuuuuckkkkk i am like smart and shit knowsomuchknowledge likegametheory wooooahhhhh MAGNETS dude

  297. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

    I would feel sorry for you but I have no compassion for deliberately stupid people. You never grew out of being the class clown. That’s why you inflicted that stupid anti-music shit on people and why you are doing this now. Go ahead, let the derpiness flow through you. Let it completely take over and make you a servant of…THE DERP SIDE!!!

  298. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    Little Derpkins never got the love and proper attention he needed from his parents so he hates the world and everyone in it as much as he hates his own self. It’s so pathetic it’s hard to be too mad.

  299. Iron Lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    “I would feel sorry for you but I have no compassion for deliberately stupid people. You never grew out of being the class clown. That’s why you inflicted that stupid anti-music shit on people and why you are doing this now.”

    lol

    Waaaaahhhh wahhhhh mommy help

    lol

  300. Iron Lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    “Little Derpkins never got the love and proper attention he needed from his parents so he hates the world and everyone in it as much as he hates his own self. It’s so pathetic it’s hard to be too mad.”

    lol

    “A guy made fun of me on a blog waaaahhh mooommy ”

    lol

  301. wobblie
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    You guys chatting into the afternoon, and not a single comment about the latest indictments. I understand that HW and EOS are awaiting marching orders, why the silence from JH and IL?

    Seth Abramson by proxi
    (THREAD) BREAKING NEWS: This thread is a *live reading* of the new Mueller indictments against 12 Russians connected to Russian intelligence (the GRU) for hacking into the DNC, DCCC, and Clinton campaign. I hope you’ll follow along and share with any others who may be interested.
    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1017807929045635072.html

    1/ The indictment names 12 names, some of which we may have come across before in the Russian investigation. All will now be researched by major media and independent digital journalists to see if they intersect with the Steele dossier or anyone connected to the Trump campaign.

    2/ Count 1 is Conspiracy to Commit An Offense Against the US and lists the defendants and mentions *unindicted co-conspirators*, which of course leaves open the possibility that some of these were American—and connected to the Trump campaign—though the indictment does not say so.

    3/ It says some of the unindicted co-conspirators are “known” to the grand jury and some are “unknown,” so that suggests there are others who could be indicted or will be indicted for this conspiracy and, again, we do not know their nationalities yet.

    4/ Trump will falsely say these indictments have nothing to do with him. Per usual, he’s wrong—it’s that we don’t *know* if the grand jury has found those connections yet. They may well have. But we know his phrase “rigged witch hunt” is henceforth GRU propaganda—and he knows it.

    5/ The fact that GRU began planning to release intel it netted from “monitoring” Democratic computers/employees in April 2016—at the conclusion of which month Trump publicly offered a “good deal” to Russia on sanctions at the Mayflower Hotel—means the effort started long before.

    6/ The indictments confirm “DCLeaks” and “Guccifer 2.0” were GRU front operations, meaning top Trump aide Roger Stone was in communication with Russian intelligence (and praised them) during the presidential campaign. One wonders if Stone is one of the unindicted co-conspirators.

    7/ The indictments confirm “Organization 1″—which is clearly WikiLeaks—acted as an agent of GRU, which means that Donald Trump Jr. was in contact with Russian agents (besides those at Trump Tower) during the presidential election and (like Stone) praised/encouraged their efforts.

    8/ The indictments imply *both* the named conspirators *and* the unindicted co-conspirators “made false statements about [the] identities” of DCLeaks/Guccifer. Many will miss that if Stone/Don Jr. are found to have known these entities were GRU, they *are* the co-conspirators.

    9/ Many of us—but yes, me quite loudly—have been saying that Trump Jr., Trump Sr., Stone, and others could be found to have “aided and abetted” the Russian conspiracy by deliberately “making false statements about the identities” of the criminals in public after they knew better.

    10/ POTUS is actually in this respect in *more* danger than others—as his private briefings confirmed for him the Russians were involved in cyberattacking America as *late* as August 2016. Yet he continued misidentifying the attackers after that—which I’ve said could be criminal.

    11/ The indictments lay out a command-and-control structure by which different GRU generals were in control of different facets of the attack on America—i.e., the attack was laid out, in all respects, as a military operation, which makes sense as it was a modern-warfare invasion.

    12/ This detailed description of the command-and-control structure—establishing a military-style operation—will be critical in the coming months, as we learn that Trump campaign staff or even Trump himself were aware of this effort before, during or after the main Russian attack.

    13/ I *cannot* stress this enough: every time Trump uses the phrase “rigged witch hunt” going forward he is knowingly misidentifying the perpetrators of a military-style cyber-invasion of America by Putin’s Russia—in order to knowingly aid and abet Russian crimes against America.

    14/ Moreover, there is evidence from Rosenstein that Trump was informed of these indictments *before today* and *nevertheless* used the phrase “rigged witch hunt” in an official presidential declaration to tens of millions of Americans (as the WH confirms his Twitter feed to be).

    15/ It is fine for us to keep debating if Trump coordinated with Russia—by aiding and abetting by any of various means before, during or after the Russian attack on America—while in-campaign, but from this day on, any more “witch hunt” talk is OPEN AND PUBLIC AIDING AND ABETTING.

    16/ The indictments underscore this fact by noting that part of the Russians’ criminal conspiracy was “making false statements” about the identities of perpetrators. Aiding and Abetting statutes don’t require Trump to know crimes were committed—only a “high likelihood” they were.

    17/ Trump had in August ’16—and has now—a “high likelihood” knowledge of who those who attacked America were/are, yet he has *continued* to attempt to taint the U.S. jury pool in public statements to tens of millions of people in an attempt to ensure these men don’t meet justice.

    18/ The indictments list many of the fake names these Russian military officers used in their spear-fishing efforts. This is a good place to note (again) that this many Russian military officers could never engage in a coordinated campaign of this sort without Putin’s knowledge.

    19/ What this means is Trump is about to meet with the mastermind of Russia’s attack on us and has called that meeting “easy”—already offering up *concessions* to that mastermind without asking anything in return. He’s also made preparations to have much of their talk be secret.

    20/ Trump is having this secret chat with the mastermind of the Russian conspiracy against the U.S.—which conspiracy is now confirmed in public filings by DOJ—at a time when either he or agents of his or both may well be the unindicted co-conspirators in the Mueller indictments.

    21/ If, in the opinion of Mueller’s grand jury, any acts Trump and/or his agents have previously taken have aided or abetted the Russian conspiracy, the secrecy of the meeting coming up in Helsinki may well mark it as an “act in furtherance” of the conspiracy Trump is a party to.

    22/ But this is speculation—we don’t know, but will eventually learn, what role the grand jury thinks Trump and/or his associates did/didn’t play in helping the Kremlin cover up this conspiracy or receive unilateral financial benefits (like an end to sanctions) in payment for it.

    23/ The indictment makes clear the *latest* the attack started was March ’16—right as it was clear Trump would be the nominee, and as new Trump hire and direct/indirect Putin agent Manafort began hiring the men (Page and Papadopoulos) who’d act as intermediaries with the Kremlin.

    24/ No investigator would find it random that Trump’s pro-Putin Campaign Manager started hiring Trump-Russia intermediaries right as the Kremlin was launching the cyberattack whose fruits it’d try to give to the Trump campaign as part of talks with those very same intermediaries.

    25/ One of the spearphishing emails was sent to Clinton’s campaign just 4 days after—in what looks like a planned encounter—Kremlin agent Joseph Mifusd met Trump agent George Papadopoulos in Italy as part of a campaign trip Trump had (based on what we know) sent Papadopoulos on.

    26/ The day the Russians stole 50,000 emails from Clinton’s Campaign Chairman was the day Trump announced George Papadopoulos as a member of his national security team. 10 days later Papadopoulos would—face to face with Trump at the TIHDC—tell Trump he was a Kremlin intermediary.

    27/ So by the time Papadopoulos told Trump—in person—that he’d been cleared to negotiate Trump-Russia meetings by a Kremlin agent (Mifsud), the Russians already had the emails that Mifsud would discuss with Papadopoulos just a few days later. All these events are aligned in time.

    28/ But understand this, too: per the indictments, the Russians began the main thrust of their attack *within two weeks* of pro-Putin foreign agent Paul Manafort coming aboard the campaign of Donald Trump. Criminal investigators *do not believe* in time-coincidences of this sort.

    29/ Timeline: Manafort hired; Papadopoulos hired; Russian attack starts; Russia gets Clinton dirt; Russia opens negotiations via Papadopoulos (Papadopoulos tells Trump this); Trump offers Russia a “good deal” on sanctions at the Mayflower (with Kislyak in the front row as a VIP).

    30/ The indictment says the second major Russian attack on Clinton occurred less than a week after Papadopoulos told Trump he was acting as a Russian intermediary and—per accounts of those at the meeting—Trump was engaged and interested. It appears that after the second attack…
    31/ …Trump made Papadopoulos part of the editing team of his Mayflower speec
    h, at which he said he’d be good to Russia if Russia was good to “us” and offered Russia a “good deal” on sanctions. He had Richard Burt—an anti-sanctions Russian-pipeline advocate—co-write the speech.

    32/ What I’m saying is that the timeline laid out in the indictments strongly suggests at least some of the unindicted co-conspirators are American.

    33/ Now here comes a bombshell.

    34/ The Kremlin DIRECTLY RESPONDED to Trump’s public call to try to get Clinton’s “missing” emails WITHIN HOURS of him making the request—WITHIN HOURS. Either Trump was coordinating OR he KNEW he had sufficient pull with the Russians that his words could have this sort of effect.

    35/ How would Trump know he had this pull with the Kremlin? Because by this time EIGHT OR MORE of his top aides had had DIRECT contact with the Russians, during which contacts it was made CLEAR how much Russia wanted to help Trump’s campaign. He knew what he was doing on July 27.

    36/ But here’s what really matters here: Mueller is firing across Trump’s bow. He knows, we know, the *world* knows what Trump did on July 27—so to use the phrase “after hours” and “for the first time” would *seem* to be Mueller beginning to draw a direct Trump-Russia connection.

    37/ And Mueller *also* notes that a *second* new, massive attack on Clinton *directly* followed Trump asking Russia for help. This is astounding news—and the major media better pick up on it immediately, because you can be certain Trump’s criminal defense team will. And Congress.

    38/ (IMPORTANT) Rosenstein said Trump *knew before today* that this was coming. What are the chances Trump’s *stooges in Congress* also knew this was coming—and that the way they conducted themselves with Strzok yesterday was an attempt to blunt the blow from today’s indictments?

    39/ I’m not going to run through every aspect of the Russian op—this “talking indictment” offers a large number of details, which indictments do not always—except to say that the *earliest* recorded attack appears to have been on the very *day* that Papadopoulos met Mifsud. Wow.

    40/ I have been saying for a year now that the two key events in the 2016 Trump-Russia story are the March 31, 2016 “TIHDC meeting” of Trump’s NatSec team and the Mayflower Hotel speech on April 27, 2016. It now appears the BULK of the Russian op happened between those two dates.

    41/ Per the indictments the four major Russian pushes were these:

    1. Right after Manafort’s hire;
    2. Between the TIHDC/Mayflower events;
    3. Right around the June Trump Tower meeting;
    4. Right after Trump publicly begs Russia for assistance.

    The time-coincidences are astounding.
    42/ *Please* remember what happened on March 31, 2016: Papadopoulos told Trump he was a Kremlin intermediary and Trump was *OK with it*. The 21 days after that contain the *bulk* of Russia’s attack on the United States to assist Trump in winning the presidency. Not a coincidence.

    43/ Many won’t recognize April 19, 2016 as key beyond what we just learned—that’s when the Kremlin created “DC Leaks.” If I’m not mistaken, it’s also the day that Paul Manafort took over the Trump campaign officially from Corey Lewandowski. These days are lining up in scary ways.
    original thread

    https://twitter.com/SethAbramson?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1017807929045635072&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.democraticunderground.com%2F100210865881

  302. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    Yeah, cry to Mama Derpus widdle derpykins!

  303. Iron Lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

    Trump has nothing to worry about with the 420 Bongolian Kushinator around. With his help, the adrenochrome lizard conspiracy will be put down forever.

  304. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

    She might be a big fat mean old drugged-out drunken derp but she’s still your mama.

  305. wobblie
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

    Striking Amazon workers have requested that no one purchase through Amazon between July 12-18. Support your fellow workers

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-amazon-com-spain/spains-amazon-workers-call-two-day-strike-over-wages-rights-idUSKCN1GP13L

  306. Iron Lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    “Striking Amazon workers have requested that no one purchase through Amazon between July 12-18. Support your fellow workers”

    I support this.

  307. wobblie
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    the above article is a little background to the current action

  308. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

    Did she spend your lunch money on heroin or some shit all the time? Why are you so scrawny and pitiful – WTF? Hahahaha!

  309. Jean Henry
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    FF, iRobert and Sad will defend assiduously defend the valuable perspective voiced above by HW on grounds of civility.

  310. Iron Lung 2
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

    “Did she spend your lunch money on heroin or some shit all the time? Why are you so scrawny and pitiful – WTF? Hahahaha!”

    lol

    “Civility”

    haha

  311. Iron Lung 2
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    No doubt the Mr. Flakes will come along to defend the Kushinator, as right wingers can do no wrong.

    Right wingers are the true victims in their minds.

  312. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

    Why would what I say need to be defended? You declared war against me so you can’t go bitching out when you get wrecked with strong words..

  313. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    Jean with her drunken sperm kids and Iron Lung being one himself. Drunk, on drugs…what else were they doing that made you like you are? WTF did they do to you???

  314. iRobert
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

    I like HW more and more.

  315. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

    I don’t get it. How is it “very strange” to call IL a liar when he is lying. How is pointing out one of IL’s lies somehow providing a shield for HW? How is challenging Jean’s notion of “consent” the equivalent of announcing myself to be a supporter of sexual assault? How is questioning Jean’s leaps of logic the equivalent act of supporting White Supremacy?

    And I am somehow supposed to believe I am the “very odd fellow”?

    Dude, I think you are a liar. I have called you a liar. I have demonstrated you are a liar. What do your lies have to do with anybody else? That is your shit, no?

  316. Jean Henry
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

    iRobert– He IS highly entertaining.

  317. Jean Henry
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

    I never said you supported sexual assault or white supremacy FF. I don’t know where you got that idea. I have pointed out many times that you have a double standard. I have made that double standard very clear. That double standard defends and insulates people like HW and Trump while looking for reasons to dismiss the perspective of people like me. Thats completely accurate. I think defending Trump and HW is morally reprehensible. I dint think defending Trump supporters is morally reprehensible. IL and I differ there.

    Its not so complicated and neither of us is alone in our perspective.

    You seem unusually defensive FF. What’s that about?

  318. Jean Henry
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

    What’s interesting about HW is that he imagines IL or I will get upset when he repeats things about our pasts that we have freely shared here. He gets them mostly wrong, but it’s not like either of us is defensive about those details.

  319. Iron lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

    I think defending people who use white supremacy to attain power is a real problem.

    I think that standing up for their followers is a real problem.

  320. Iron lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 7:28 pm | Permalink

    I have never met the kushlord and could not care less about his retorts.

    Mostly they just make me laugh.

    What doesnt make me laugh is his fetishization of power, political violence, bigotry and misogyny.

  321. Iron lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

    It is interesting to that the Mr. Flakes seems so dismissive of the idea that he participates in white supremacist action in the US when he is exactly what they needed to take power in 2016.

    It is like he has never considered that he might be complicit.

  322. Iron lung
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

    Basically, to me, we now live in a ln America there are two kinds of people.

    Collaborators, those who allow bigotry, white tyranny, misogyny and ignorance…

    And everyone else.

    After spending most of my life as what I thought to be a centrist, i am very surprised to have this worldview or at least i am surprised that bigotry, white tyranny, misogyny and ignorance would have become as powerful as it has.

    If you voted for trump you are the enemy. If you shield his followers you are the enemy. It is pretty simple.

  323. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    What you say makes you my enemy and the enemy of all good people. You are going to be seen by the public as a collaborator and a traitor, which you are.

  324. Sad
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 8:28 pm | Permalink

    Alex Jones was right. He just got the date wrong.

    The civil war was started by the left on July 2018 Friday the 13th. Sides were drawn.

    I’m humbled to witness history being made.

  325. Jean Henry
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

    Wobblie— I mentioned the indictments a while back. Keep up Man!

  326. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 10:40 pm | Permalink

    These indictments will trigger evidence to be introduced to the court belying the charges. Assange has proof.

  327. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 11:39 pm | Permalink

    It must be like being in an episode of Star Wars for IL.

    63 million Americans are Iron Lung’s sworn enemy.

    You guys don’t suppose he is on one of those watch lists, do you? Nah, just a regular Joe who has 63 million American enemies and who makes you his enemy if you call him a liar even if he is shown to be lying.

  328. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 11:42 pm | Permalink

    Jean,

    My post was poorly written. I was addressing those questions to IL.

  329. Jean Henry
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 11:45 pm | Permalink

    Sure seems like he got under your skin FF. Again you may be taking this all a bit too literally. SAD as well.

    One wonders how much you all understand about how discourse world in a Democraxy. And has worked historically. It ain’t always pretty but it actually does more to prevent civil wars than make them.

    Oh well.

  330. wobblie
    Posted July 14, 2018 at 4:21 am | Permalink

    JH, I find nothing in your stream of comments concerning the indictments issued on the afternoon of Friday the 13.

  331. iRobert
    Posted July 14, 2018 at 5:55 am | Permalink

    You’re up early, wobblie. I too was surprised not to see any mention yet of the indictments of Russian operatives. Trump continues to call the investigation a “witch hunt” when his only concern should be for the security of our electoral system. It’s stunning to see a US president and GOP congress so actively protecting Russian espionage. Republicans would want to put before a firing squad anyone else who were to do what they are doing. I guess they see themselves as above the law, and somehow above treason.

  332. EOS
    Posted July 14, 2018 at 6:19 am | Permalink

    Wobblie,

    Clinton kept email communications on an insecure server. Sent classified documents to a yahoo email address of her aide. It’s like she deliberately took steps to allow access to classified materials. Russian intelligence was able to easily get these emails. There is also evidence that they were downloaded quickly onto a flash drive or hard drive by someone with physical access to a personal computer. From the information that has already been released, it looks likely that Clinton and her campaign officials were responsible for allowing Russia to obtain their emails because of their incompetence and could very well be the unindicted co-conspirators.

    U.S. Intelligence captures all email communication,at nodes outside the U.S., sent through the Internet. This is legal, under our current laws, when the transmission is outside of the country. Few persons realize that domestic emails are routed through nodes outside the US for this purpose of surveillance. Yesterday we indicted 12 Russians for doing the same thing that we routinely do. And, interestingly, the Obama administration itself had access to all emails sent and received from the Trump campaign.

    And what did this foreign entity do to interfere with our election? They released accurate copies of the emails sent by the Clinton campaign that revealed how corrupt she is. Nobody has disputed the accuracy of the emails. They didn’t make up false news about Hilliary, didn’t make any false accusations, just revealed the dispicable way she communicated and the outrageous tactics she employed to garner the nomination.

    As a candidate and as a businessman, Trump communicated with Russian entities. Not unlike any recent presidential candidate or Clinton herself. Yes, I think the investigation of Trump is a witch hunt too. Go ahead, indict me for open and public aiding and abetting.

  333. iRobert
    Posted July 14, 2018 at 7:31 am | Permalink

    No EOS, Republicans are above the law. You are safe. I’m going to become a Republican too, now that I understand the benefits.

  334. iRobert
    Posted July 14, 2018 at 7:40 am | Permalink

    My advice to everyone is to declare themself a Republican. We should all have these protections against having to abide by the law. We should all be able to help foreign agents cover their crimes against the US without fear of being charged as traitors.

    Remember all the trouble-talk and special excuses Republicans had for outing a CIA agent Valerie Plame?

    Republicans get to do all the things for which they insist others are prosecuted to the full extent of the law. But Republicans have a special excuse generator in their brains which protect all other Republicans from being held accountable. That’s why we should all join them. We should all do what they’re doing together, as one nation.

  335. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 14, 2018 at 7:56 am | Permalink

    It’s not about Republicans and Democrats. There are traitors in both parties. Trump is not one of them.

  336. iRobert
    Posted July 14, 2018 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    Well, aiding and embedding a foreign entity which infiltrated our national security in any way, would be treason if any of us here did it. But Republican members of Congress exempt themselves and each other. You or I would be sent to prison for doing it.

    So maybe it wouldn’t be enough for us all to join the Republican Party. We’d have to get ourselves elected to office as Republicans. From the looks of it, just being a Republican voter may not provide the exempt status it does for their GOP officials and operatives. Being a media shill for them might also qualify a person though, because Bob Novak got off.

  337. iRobert
    Posted July 14, 2018 at 8:34 am | Permalink

    It doesn’t appear that the FBI has found any evidence of Trump campaign collusion with the Russian operatives.

    Now the question will be whether or not Republicans will stop attempting to interfere with and block the FBI’s investigation into what all the Russian’s did.

    If Hillary’s recklessness contributed to the Russians obtaining sensitive information, some penalty should be considered. Certainly we should not allow her to serve in any public post in the future.

  338. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 14, 2018 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    I don’t see aiding and abetting. Explain.

  339. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 14, 2018 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    I do see it in the Uranium One situation extremely blatantly. Same with the Awan’s. Same with ISIS…

  340. iRobert
    Posted July 14, 2018 at 10:53 am | Permalink

    You’re probably right, HW, that it would be a very difficult case to make. I would say taking any action so as to deliberately interfere with a federal investigation of foreign interference or espionage is fairly classified as aiding and abetting. I’m sure it would be difficult to prove in a court, but if it were you or I interfering with the investigation, that could be one of the charges.

    Anyway, it’s obvious the Democrats think the FBI will find collusion by Trump or his campaign. I don’t think so. Though I have no doubt some domestic interests did collude, and possibly even instigated the Russians.

    I can understand why the GOP wants the investigation to conclude prematurely. But they have no right to interfere. I’ll say it again; you or I would go to prison for interfering in any way.

    I’m really just complaining more generally about how Republicans think and feel. It’s very obvious that they feel that rules do not apply to their officials, as they apply them to the Democrats or anyone else that disagrees with them. Blocking Obama’s Supreme Court nominee was one example. Karl Rove’s outing of a CIA agent was another. Trying to impeach Clinton, and then nominating a guy who makes Clinton look like a choir boy. But we see over and over, in many smaller ways, that Republicans simply don’t care about the institutions of this country, if they stand to gain by disregarding the standard rules. They don’t have principles that they wouldn’t toss aside in a second if it gained them any advantage.

    Also, sorry for my misspellings, terrible grammar and poor organization. I’m really lazy, and don’t look at what I’ve typed.

  341. Jean Henry
    Posted July 14, 2018 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    Wobblie— it may have been on a different thread. It’s was addressed to HW. No time to look now.

  342. EOS
    Posted July 14, 2018 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    Sorry. I’m not a Republican and have no desire to join their party. Why do so many want to categorize individuals and them blame the individual for every act committed by other individuals whom they classify similarity?

    Novak, a journalist, outed Plame eight years after Wilson, her husband, had done so. Wilson wrote about it publically after the CIA inadvertently included that fact in a communication that went to the Cuban embassy. Armitage revealed to Colin Powell that he had shared the information with Novak, but Powell did not disclose that fact during the entire time the investigation was underway. Libby was convicted of having a faulty memory 8 years after the fact. He thought he had learned the information from a source that denied he shared that information with Libby. So he was convicted of lying under oath, not of outing a CIA operative who had previously been outed and no longer had any cover. That was a witch hunt of a different era.

  343. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 14, 2018 at 11:16 am | Permalink

    “taking any action so as to deliberately interfere with a federal investigation of foreign interference or espionage”

    What if the federal investigation is corrupt? I’d say that standard should apply to certain FBI officials in starting the collusion narrative with a phony document and basing the investigation on it. It’s a frame job where they are covering up their crimes by trying to impeach the President with a lie. I call that treason. They protected Hillary from Weiner’s laptop too. Nothing damning in there do you think?

  344. EOS
    Posted July 14, 2018 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    And Karl Rove was not involved at all.

  345. Jean Henry
    Posted July 14, 2018 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    Wobblie FYI, from further up in this thread as I said.
    :
    “Jean Henry
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 2:33 pm | Permalink
    HW— How about we wait until the mueller investigation is concluded to talk about whether or not he found collusion.
    I think it’s unlikely he can prove it as far up as Trump, but he may find enough corruption in the process to take him down.
    Meanwhile a dozen new indictments came in Today for Russian interference. And many lines are being drawn between Trump associates and the Kremlin.
    And no indictment for Strozk yet…
    We’ve been more right than you. And none of us have claimed to be able to predict the future flawlessly, as you have.
    Apologies to HW’s defenders for pointing up the verifiable truth. I know that’s considered uncivil lately.”

  346. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 14, 2018 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    I never said when Strzok would be indicted. It’s a lot closer to that now than what you said which is he is a nobody who couldn’t possibly have any effect on the election. Definitely that is totally wrong.

    I believe Assange and Dotcom. They have the evidence that proves there was no hack. It’s a desperate lie.

  347. EOS
    Posted July 14, 2018 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    Jean,

    You don’t have to agree with everything other people post on this blog. Your opinion is not always the verifiable truth. Treat others the way you want to be treated and you will be surprised at the results.

  348. Jean Henry
    Posted July 14, 2018 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

    EOS– Obviously an opinion by its very nature its not the truth, nor is it pretending to be so. Except in HW’s case where he says so directly. He should then be held to the standard he sets for himself. That’s reasonable.

    I have no intention of giving any kind of validity to your positions or HW’s. Most of them are evidently counterfactual, by which I mean they are supported by false, manipulated and incomplete information. I am treating you two exactly as I would chose to be treated should I veer so far off the path of reason. I find your positions and HW’s morally reprehensible. I speak to you both in keeping with that viewpoint. And I don’t give a damn what you think of me. Not even a little bit of one.

    Please refrain from giving me advice in the future. And then I will not feel compelled to tell you to take that advice and shove it up your tightly clenched ass.

  349. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 14, 2018 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

    You CAN’T give or take away my comments’ validity. You don’t have that power. If you have better information then bring it. You act as though your pronouncements about people are facts but they are just (shitty) opinions.

  350. Jean Henry
    Posted July 14, 2018 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

    HW— any individual person can validate another viewpoint or not.
    It’s not a litmus test.
    They could be wrong.

    In the case of myths, conspiracy theories, etc., how much traction they get in the wider population is often a result of receiving cultural validation or not, one person at a time.

    I’m talking about perceptions here, not a logic proof. Or any other kind of proof. But what is easily proved is that humans in groups are easily fooled into believing all manner of compelling bullshittery.

    Re Opinions— if I write something under my name that expresses anything other than a fact, you can assume it’s an opinion.

    Anyone who regularly says ‘in my opinion’ before stating an opinion is an idiot.

    That’s an opinion.

  351. Jean Henry
    Posted July 14, 2018 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

    Lastly. An observation. I am regularly told by people on this site, and elsewhere, that I state my opinions as facts and should equivocate more.

    I have never heard a man be accused of staying his beliefs, opinions or observations too directly.

    Equivocating language is for the British. I speak plain American English. We are direct speakers. I don’t know what happened in the Midwest, but you won’t catch me qualifying a statement that requires no qualification just for the sake of making another person- usually a man— feel more at ease.

    I will also not apologize before ordering a coffee. Women of the Midwest, stop that shit.

  352. Jean Henry
    Posted July 14, 2018 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

    Why Women Apologize and Should Stop https://nyti.ms/1fvHKKU

  353. Jcp2
    Posted July 14, 2018 at 8:23 pm | Permalink

    This is what happens when EOS meets HW.

    https://the-fringe.com/thread-adrenochrome_a_drug_from_the_bowels_of_hell

  354. iRobert
    Posted July 14, 2018 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

    EOS and HW, I’m sorry for the time it’s taken for me to respond. I am unfortunately going to have to fofeit this round. I just don’t have much time to do the necessary preparing for a comprehensive response to the comments you directed toward me. I do apologize. Hopefully I will have more time at some point and will be able to revisit the topics I brought up.

    Jean, I never said you should be civil. I just openly pondered at the motivation, meaningfulness, and effectiveness of your strategy. There are always ways to improve. I’m certain we here all have plenty of room for improvement.

  355. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 14, 2018 at 8:38 pm | Permalink

    “I am regularly told by people on this site, and elsewhere, that I state my opinions as facts and should equivocate more.
    I have never heard a man be accused of staying his beliefs, opinions or observations too directly.”

    You do state your opinions as facts and I never said anything about equivocating. It’s pig behavior to claim it is a fact someone is a racist or some shit and “back it up” with more piggish opinions. You cry sexism as a shield. I think Iron Dung does it just as much as you. It has nothing to do with being male or female. I think you are a horrible person but I’m not like oh she supports horrible shit – I’ll be a hero if I attack her. Nope, it’s self defense all the way.

  356. Jcp2
    Posted July 14, 2018 at 9:28 pm | Permalink

    You’re anonymous, yet you are “defending” yourself against two people who you recognize and can identify in real life. That’s really brave of you.

  357. Jean Henry
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 7:13 am | Permalink

    HW has a victim complex

  358. Jean Henry
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 7:20 am | Permalink

    iRobert— you cant imagine how little I care about your suggestions on how I might improve.

    I’m confused about why you think you razzing Mark is any different than what IL and I do. It’s all a bit of fun, right?
    I guess the difference is you don’t actually think Mark is a terrible person or has beliefs that threaten the well being of others. I’m not sure that gives you the upper hand morally, especially when you feel a need to defend HW and EOS and speak to them in a professorial/avuncular tone. Are you suggesting (by example) we be passive aggressive with our enemies and aggressive with our friends?
    Truly confounding.

  359. Jean Henry
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 7:26 am | Permalink

    “You do state your opinions as facts and I never said anything about equivocating. It’s pig behavior to claim it is a fact someone is a racist or some shit and “back it up” with more piggish opinions. You cry sexism as a shield. I think Iron Dung does it just as much as you. It has nothing to do with being male or female. I think you are a horrible person but I’m not like oh she supports horrible shit – I’ll be a hero if I attack her. Nope, it’s self defense all the way.“

    Please note this is all opinion stated as fact.

    And yet it’s obvious to all that it’s HW’s opinion.

    And so my point has been made.

  360. Jean Henry
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 7:44 am | Permalink

    HW Asking someone to declare their opinion as opinion, when that’s already obvious, is asking them to use equivocating language.

  361. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 8:09 am | Permalink

    You don’t understand. You state opinions as fact and think it is logical to use them to try to prove something factual. I said I THINK you are horrible. It’s not a provable fact. You see the difference now?

  362. iRobert
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    Jean, I didn’t make any suggestions as to how you might improve. It’s odd that you responded as though I did.

    I’ve said it a few times now, but I don’t mind saying it again; I am not against you razzing HW and EOS. I have done it too, and will do it again. I am certain they don’t care when I do, as I am certain they welcome you doing it.

    I agree with HW and EOS on a few things. But one of the things I like most about them is that they seem to really push your buttons.

    Can I clear up anything else for you? I don’t mind repeating anything over and over, either.

  363. Jean Henry
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 8:49 am | Permalink

    They don’t push my buttons. I find them entertaining. I would not, however, be doing this if I did not also think they are both representative of larger political viewpoints that are quite dangerous. In the case of EOS we know most of the rhetoric. It’s familiar to us. This QAnon stuff is a bit different. It weaves together some old school conspiracy theories into a grand one. One with new components and with Trump as its unlikely super hero fighting evil doers, bring economic justice and locking up the bad guys– mostly the very powerful and the brown and black, leaving the world safe for the average white dude and his lady, so long as she sees herself first and foremost as his lady.

    It may be that you imagine I still get worked up about racism, sexism, fake science etc etc, but I can assure you, it comes as no surprise to me. I’m simply pointing it up when I see it. If you don’t see it, that does not surprise me.

    Human behavior genrally upsets me, but I still think it’s worth the time to learn to recognize its patterns.

  364. Jean Henry
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 8:52 am | Permalink

    I DO get upset by liberal and leftist self-deception. I hold our side to a higher standard. That may be unreasonable. I also see it as the only way forward. We have to hold ourselves accountable to our own standards first. Blaming ‘the man’ is juvenile and self-distancing. I have met the man and he is us.

  365. iRobert
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 8:57 am | Permalink

    Ok, Jean, I’ll take you on your word on that they don’t “push your buttons.”

    I’ll rephrase my comment. One of the things I appreciate most about EOS and HW is how they provoke you.

  366. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    All I did was say Hillary Clinton is the one of the most corrupt candidates of all time and Jean went psycho.

  367. Jean Henry
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    Post election 2016, I will admit I was a bit sensitive to the railroading of HRC as corrupt and evil, especially as co-opted by the Sanders campaign. I think legitimizing that belief cost her the election.

    Of course, HW is thrilled with that result as he believes the garbage conspiracy theories.

    (I am also, for the record, not saying the HRC or any politician, is not corrupt in some ways)

    HW if I counter your bullshit, it is not to try to sway you, but so that others reading the exchange can see both sides. I have no expectation of changing your viewpoint, and I do think your perspective has influence.
    iRobert does not.
    That’s where we differ.

    In many ways iRobert’s attitude towards you is disempowering and dismissive and so much more condescending than mine will ever be.

  368. Jean Henry
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 10:50 am | Permalink

    iRobert– it seems as though you are more provoked by any of this than I.
    Notably you are especially provoked by the idea that there is anything more to know about structural racism than what MLK taught.
    The way systemic issues self-perpetuate is to take on new forms, and so we may have voting and fair housing rights now, but we also have mass incarceration, the war on drugs and gentrification and self-segregation. There may be new things to know about racism now than there was in 1963. All of these issues may not be addressed by talking about economic inequality alone. Generally speaking economic progress post 1963, where it has happened, has left behind communities of color, further segregating them from mobility etc. There is no reason to believe that any means of addressing economic inequality won’t do the same. We seem to have no problem in Ann Arbor for instance, having great public schools (and calling them such) even though they are not great for people of color. There is a massive education and suspension gap and well funded public schools have not solved that problem.

  369. iRobert
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 10:51 am | Permalink

    I’m flattered, Jean. That’s very kind of you to say.

  370. iRobert
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    I am just glad to hear you aren’t too modest to admit, you are way beyond MLK in his understanding of racial issues. After all, he only had 39 years, living in the South, and actually being black, and the most prominent civil rights leader in US history. He can’t be expected to have an understanding as advanced as yours.

  371. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 11:07 am | Permalink

    I have so much better of a case against Hillary Clinton being corrupt than you do about Trump. Hundreds of millions to the CF by shady international interests including three-way deal with Giustra and RUSSIA, That’s only the a small part of her corruption. Then to push the phony “collusion” about our President…it’s a double whammy – just like you do all the time when you lie about someone else being all the things you are: racist, sexist, impossibly stupid…That’s how I see it. You are screwing yourself double.

  372. iRobert
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 11:16 am | Permalink

    “In many ways iRobert’s attitude towards you is disempowering and dismissive and so much more condescending than mine will ever be.” (Jean to HW)

    I guess I owe you an apology, HW. I didn’t realize you were such a threat to humanity. I hope you can forgive me for being so disempowering and dismissive. I’ll try to call you more names from now on.

  373. Jean Henry
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 11:55 am | Permalink

    iRobert– Do you really think that the only way I respond to HW is with ad hominem attacks? I have spent a fair amount of time, when available, looking into his claims and responding. That’s how I eventually discovered the QAnon source for his cosmology. I feel totally ok occasionally responding in kind to his tone. But my replies are not vapid and embittered as you suggest.

    If you go back to the original comment thread that so inspired HW to attack, (I think it was the dumb bitch thread.) I think you’ll find even then I was replying to his accusations as well as critiquing his world view.

    I’m pretty much dumb with this conversation but my impression is that you are uncomfortable with my expression of anger. That may or may not be amplified by my gender. I cant know for sure what ‘provokes’ you so about my posts. But you are clearly provoked. There are a lot more openly angry women out there now. We are, for the most part, upending the cultural standard that asks women to be compliant and mediating. That’s happening form all political perspectives. It’s an interesting time to be sure.

    A friend’s shrink years ago reflected on his decades of practice and said, “Scratch a woman and you get anger. Scratch a man and you get sadness.” That seems broadly true.

    Please note that I have expressed my losses and failures here, as well as my anger. HW sees fit to weaponize those vulnerabilities. He is not inclined to humanize himself or anyone else on this forum. I don’t think he really deserves my consideration in any way. When I engage him here, it is in fact on his terms. No other.

    I now think we have exhausted this subject of me explaining why I’m often a bitch on MM.com. I’m sure there’s some other outspoken woman out there in the blogosphere with very slightly differing political views whom you can bother with requests to address your concerns about the culture wars now, iRobert. For some of us the culture wars are not new; they have been always present and unwelcome aspect of living our daily lives. I know that us talking about them is annoying for men like you. Too bad.

  374. iRobert
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 12:04 pm | Permalink

    I’ve always assumed with the name Jean Henry that you were a very petite French man.

    Congratulations on your country winning the World Cup just now. Viva La France!

  375. Jean Henry
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    IRobert— Lets be clear. I am not saying I know more about being Black in America than MLK, jr. You are saying that you know more about being Black in America than contemporary Black American thought leaders, because you read MLKjr circa 1961. It’s some white liberal guy version of I learned everything I need to know about racism in kindergarten. ‘Why can’t we all just get along?’
    Why indeed.

  376. iRobert
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

    I don’t know anything about black American thought, so it would be impossible for me to claim to know more than anybody else. No, I think in generalities about all such topics. I simply noticed that you seem to have a much more sophisticated approach than MLK. He wasted time talking about dignity and stuff. I agree with you. It’s time to bury those old notions.

  377. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    Jean, you have been nothing but try to be offensive to me personally since I started posting. Notice I say TRY because you are so far off it doesn’t do anything to me. Of course I don’t appreciate being called a bigot and all of that horrible shit you have said all along, but I’m not any kind of victim in my mind.

    If I feel like turning up the heat on you you shouldn’t complain. As usual it is you with the victim complex. You attack and attack and attack, then when I say something colorful in my rebuttal you act like I’m the devil. It’s kookoo.

  378. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    have *done* nothing

  379. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    People like you and Iron Dung are weakening the Democrats so it’s kind of good. The loopier you get the better for the country.

  380. EOS
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

    Jean,

    I post rhetoric that is familiar to you because my views are shared by a very substantial number of persons in this country. So you go ape shit and threaten to cut me with a knife and post a stream of ad hominem attacks. All I’m hoping for by coming to a site that is predominately Progressive is to listen and consider the thought processes that explain why progressives dismiss conservative views. Why is an alternative viewpoint dangerous to you? Have you not considered both sides of an argument and come to a reasonable conclusion that the progressive view is superior? Are you not able to share the reasoning that led to your choice? What really disappoints me is that your constant emotional attacks have drowned out the reasonable voices that used to populate this blog.

  381. Jean Henry
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

    I know and love a lot of Christian conservatives EOS. Few are as reprehensible as you. It’s not about your positions so much as you personally. I find you unbearable. I’m totally ok that the feeling is mutual.

    Given that I’m a woman and most of my closest friends are some kind of queer, I do in fact consider tour political perspective a bodily threat. Your positions threaten female and queer bodily agency and fundamental civil rights. Your other viewpoints rely on biological determinism even though you deny that. It’s evident.

    Balance that to my facetious use of a phrase in common parlance against an anonymous person. If you felt any actual threat was present in that line then your victim complex is as bad as HW’s. My guess is you are simply weaponizing it for rhetorical purposes. To assume some moral high ground. No one with half a brain would buy that.

    I use my actual name here and stand by my words. When you are prepared to do that, I’ll believe in the integrity of your voice. As is, you are a coward sniping from the ‘safe space’ of your anonymity. No moral high ground there.

  382. EOS
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

    It seems you think biological determinism is a bad thing. I think that many of your queer friends , who tell me that they were “born that way”, would disagree with you. My view that homosexual behavior is a sinful activity in no way poses a bodily threat to anyone. And I exercise my fundamental civil rights in expressing that opinion. My opinion does not restrict the behavior of other individuals who are free to express their own opinions.

    I don’t think there is a genetic component that drives a compulsion to have same-sex relations. So I guess I don’t believe that biological determinism rigidly applies to all human behavior, though I do believe that genetics plays a role in influencing most behavior and most biochemists share that opinion. So again, I think your assumptions are wrong.

  383. Jean Henry
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 9:26 pm | Permalink

    Ah but there is evidence of biological basis for sexual preference but none for race, despite what you say. Your ability to twist facts is quite impressive. At any rate, it doesn’t matter one bit to me whether queer people are born that way or not. Your belief that they are immoral threatens their happiness and personal agency, their access to all that you have access to. You are very free to express your opinion aka bigotry. No one its stopping you. We will counter you though. And when you try to encode bigotry into laws denying equal access to marriage, employment, etc based on sexuality you are in fact limiting their civil rights. Their access to those things may offend you morally but that doesn’t give you right to restrict them. In other words, feel free to express your bigotry as much as you want; that’s protected. But try to encode that bigotry and hatefulness into law and you are taking a more immoral stance based on hatred that is far more damaging than any harmless sexual activity and family-making based in love can ever be.

    If God is love, you are clearly a heathen..

  384. Jean Henry
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 9:32 pm | Permalink

    And for the Christ’s sake (blaspheme intentional) , don’t start talking about pedophiles and beastiality as false equivalents. Homosexuality harms no one, It’s consensual sexual behavior whereas the others are not and cant be. There is no evidence that homosexuality or any other protected sexual or gender expression harms others. None. There is a lot of evidence that anti-LGBTQ bias kills however. So many suicides, assaults and murders. You should be ashamed, EOS, to be holding political company with so many violent extremists.

  385. EOS
    Posted July 15, 2018 at 9:50 pm | Permalink

    Why do you bring up pedophiles and beastiality? I didn’t. The rate of suicides for homosexuals is the same in locations where it is widely embraced and celebrated, such as San Francisco, as in the rest of the country. Persons who assault or murder homosexuals are far more likely to be other homosexuals. I have no association with any violent extremists. So again, I think your assumptions are wrong.

  386. EOS
    Posted July 16, 2018 at 3:58 am | Permalink

    I shared the peer-reviewed scientific paper that shows there are genetic markers that are correlated with race. They are located in non-coding regions of the genome and have absolutely zero racist implications. If there are genetic markers for homosexuality, please share with us the peer-reviewed scientific papers.

  387. Jean Henry
    Posted July 16, 2018 at 8:08 am | Permalink

    EOS– And I debunked the conclusions your drew from that paper, EOS. I’m not going to do it again. Not worth my time.

    As for your observation about suicidality among LGBTQ people, that is simply wrong:

    “The findings in Dr. Hatzenbuehler’s recently published study in Pediatrics largely mirror what we have learned through the Trevor Lifeline regarding social environments and the risk for suicide among LGTBQ youth — namely that young people who live in areas with a more negative sociopolitical climate towards LGBTQ young people and without affirming resources are at an increased risk for suicide when compared with their peers in more supportive environments.”

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-fishberger-md/gay-suicide_b_851107.html

    If there is a higher rate among adult LEGBTQ people in cities that are more accepting of LGBTQ people that is likely because there are more of them living in those places. Show me per capita of the demographic rates by region and maybe you’d have a point to make, but even then it could point to the difficulty of being part of a disenfranchised population.

    We both think the others assumptions are wrong. Again, I’m absolutely ok with you thinking I am wrong. I find that validating. When you produce any data that holds up, I will certainly pay more attention.

  388. CNN
    Posted July 18, 2018 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    Judge Brett Kavanaugh, Trump’s Supreme Court pick, said in 2016 he would “put the nail” in a Supreme Court ruling upholding the constitutionality of an independent counsel https://cnn.it/2uu0rca

  389. Anonymous
    Posted September 4, 2018 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    Call your senators.

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