As Dreamers anticipate a deportation order from the Trump administration, more anti-immigrant graffiti appears in Ann Arbor

Donald Trump is expected to announced tomorrow that he’s decided to kill the Obama administration immigration policy known as DACA (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals), which essentially allows those who immigrated to the United States illegally as children, to stay in the country without fear of deportation, so long as they continue to be good, contributing members of society, etc. [It’s actually more complicated than that, but that’s the gist of it. If you’d like to know more, you’ll find the specifics here.] While it’s expected that Trump will give Congress six months to come up with some kind of an alternative, assuming the repeal goes into effect, it could mean that the 787,580 people who registered to participate in the program, commonly referred to as “Dreamers,” could face deportation.

It should be noted that these young people came forward willingly, and in good faith, to announce themselves as undocumented immigrants, and register for this program that promised a path toward the American dream. On December 8, Trump, in a brief moment of lucidity, said the following of these young people. “We’re going to work something out that’s going to make people happy and proud,” he said, “They got brought here at a very young age, they’ve worked here, they’ve gone to school here. Some were good students. Some have wonderful jobs. And they’re in never-never land because they don’t know what’s going to happen.” Then, on January 18, just before taking office, Trump said that he was going to propose a plan with “a lot of heart” – one which would leave the Dreamers “very happy.” Well, I think it’s safe to say, that’s not what’s happening.

When asked why this should be a priority of our nation now, people on the far right talk of the societal costs associated with having these young immigrants in our country. Apparently, though, that’s not quite true. Not only are the coasts associated with having the Dreamers in the country relatively low, but the costs associated with deporting these individuals would be enormous. As the folks at the Washington Post point out, it will likely cost on the order of $8.5 billion to deport these Dreamers. That, as the Post points out, would be enough “to fund the National Endowment for the Arts (which Trump’s budget proposed eliminating) for 56 years,” or pay for “40 percent of Trump’s proposed border wall.” Furthermore, according to the conservative CATO Institute, “DACA rescission will cost employers $6.3 billion in employee turnover costs, including recruiting, hiring, and training 720,000 new employees.”

Really, it makes absolutely no sense, at least fiscally speaking. We’ve invested a great deal in these young people, most of whom, if I’m not mistaken, came here prior to starting kindergarten, and they’re just now beginning to contribute as tax-paying members of our society. Why push them out now? I mean, Apple alone, according to CEO Tim Cook, employs 250 Dreamers. Do we really want these people to return to Mexico and Asia, taking their talents, and their tax dollars, with them?

But I think we all know what this is really about. It’s about race, and the fear of a rapidly changing American demographic. Members of the far right, like Iowa Congressman Steve King, might say that this is all about restoring the “rule of law,” but it’s all about racial politics, and giving an easy victory to the far right of the Republicans party, like those who marched with torches through Charlottesville a few weeks ago. Dreamers are low-hanging fruit. Finding foreign-born criminals in America, and deporting them, is difficult work. Rounding up Dreamers, though, is easy. They’ve willingly told us who they are, and where they work. They played by the rules. And this, apparently, is how they repay them… Granted, Congress may take the hot potato that Trump just handed them, and do the right thing. Personally, I don’t think he cares. All he wants, I think, is for the far right to know that he’s doing his part to make America white again.

[above: A map showing where the DACA Dreamers are located, taken from the Washington Post article linked to above.]

For what it’s worth, not all Republicans are against DACA. According to a recent report in the Atlantic, allowing the Dreamers to stay is something most conservatives are OK with. “Nearly 80 percent of Republicans, and three-quarters of Trump voters, support it,” they say. But, they’re quick to add, “(I)mmigration hardliners like the pundit Ann Coulter, Breitbart, and Attorney General Jeff Sessions have been vocal proponents of ending the policy.”

As with the pardoning of racist Arizona sheriff Joe Arpaio last week, what we’re seeing here is Trump feeding raw meat to the most far-right members of his base, the people who conservatives in Congress truly fear, the most rabid nationalists and racists in America… This, it’s clear to me, is all about Trump preparing for battle over impeachment, and making sure the so-called deplorables are solidly behind him. There’s no other reason for this to be happening now, as we’re facing a nuclear showdown with North Korea. This isn’t about crafting good policy. This is about using the lives of nearly one million young people for political gain.

Unfortunately, as all of this is playing out in DC, we’re seeing signs of anti-immigrant sentiment here at home. In addition to the white supremacist literature found in Ypsilanti a few days ago, and recent incidents at the Ann Arbor Skate Park, and Concordia University, the “rock” on U-M’s campus, which had been painted by members of ALMA (Assisting Latinos to Maximize Achievement) to welcome new students to campus, was covered in pro-Trump and anti-immigrant graffiti.

[For more information about this most recent incident on the University of Michigan campus, see the La Casa (Latinx Alliance for Community Action Support and Advocacy) statement, and the response by U-M Chief Diversity Officer Robert Sellers.]

In a more perfect world, we would have a President leading our nation who, seeing this increasingly heated racial environment, would intercede and encourage us to be better people. Instead, though, we have someone looking to exacerbate the situation by adding fuel to the fire… Again, there is no reason why this had to happen now. This only serves to heighten tensions and push us closer to a breaking point. And, for what? So our President can look good to his far right base? So he has a bargaining chip to work with when trying to find the money to build his wall? It’s absolutely shameful. Using these young people in such a way is beyond disgusting. It’s just plain vile.

update: Jeff Sessions has made it official. The hot potato has officially been pitched to Congress.

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84 Comments

  1. Joe M.
    Posted September 5, 2017 at 10:19 am | Permalink

    That’s not a great photo of the rock – but it appears like it was Fuck Gators (in Florida Gators colors) first.

    With the red underlining, it appears like it may have been Fuck Gators originally and then someone added the underline, Latinos, and MAGA to spin the message.

    Not great and not horribly surprising – so many students are wealthy out of state white students paying $65k/year in tuition/housing costs. I’m sure they make up the bulk of the quiet right/conservative/racist group that’s always been in Ann Arbor thanks to UM, but are emboldened given the current climate. Probably some frat bros gone wild.

  2. Blue J
    Posted September 5, 2017 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    I think this is more about tax reform than feeding the rabid base, although that’s an ancillary benefit.

    To that end, this isn’t that bad of a strategy. Trump’s going to announce that the DACA repeal has a six-month implementation delay to give time for Congress to fix it. In this way, he gets to appeal to conservative principles through the idea that DACA can only be properly implemented via Congress as opposed to executive fiat.

    At the same time, he puts a bipartisan bargaining chip on the table for tax reform negotiations… a chip that most republicans don’t mind conceding, and yet one which most democrats want just a bit more.

    As a bonus, this could distract a bit from efforts to build momentum around single-payer legislation by dividing attention towards DACA, an issue that will now have a sharp six-month time limitation.

    So, this move might give republicans a useful bargaining chip for actually getting something on the agenda accomplished, all while dividing the attention of the democrats, mitigating the odds that the media will continue with such a heavy focus on healthcare, appealing to conservative principles on limited executive power, and (yes) providing meat to the monsters.

    Actually smart? Maybe. That’s what’s scariest of all.

  3. Janette Rook
    Posted September 5, 2017 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    Pandering to the lowest common denominator, as usual, rolling back steps that were in a right & good direction.

  4. M
    Posted September 5, 2017 at 10:54 am | Permalink

    I suspect you’re right, Blue J. If you believe the reports, Trump was torn on this. He seems to really believe that these Dreamers are good people, which, in my opinion, makes this all the more reprehensible. He is clearly using these young men and women to get something that he wants. The question is what? Is he trying to curry favor with the right? Is he trying to create a bargaining chip that he can use in tax reform, or to get his wall built? Whatever it is, it’s shameful. These young people should be the very last people we discuss in the immigration debate, not the first.

  5. Jcp2
    Posted September 5, 2017 at 11:38 am | Permalink

    What else could be expected? DACA was an Obama executive policy, only able to survive under the benevolence of any executive succeeding Obama. Trump is calling out his own party to make a decision as to what to be done with regards to immigration policy. The Republican Party has been using this as an obstructionist wedge issue. Now they own it.

  6. M
    Posted September 5, 2017 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    Not unexpected, Jcp2, just depressingly shitty. I have no problem debating border security and immigration, but these young people, who are opting to work within the system, are the last ones we should be focusing on.

  7. Jean Henry
    Posted September 5, 2017 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    Paul Ryan has said he opposed rescinding the law and wanted Congress to ‘fix’ DACA. In the end, there are compelling economic reasons to keep Dreamers here that counter GOP rhetoric for the last 10 years. There are six months allowed for Congress to come up with an alternative solution, which they should have done under Obama. Many people will be wieghing in, especially the agriculture and tech industries at either end of the wage spectrum. It’s amazing to watch the GOP complain about Obama’s supposed executive over-reach without acknowledging either Trump’s actions or that their obstructionist policies gave him no other choice. Now that they have every opportunity to enact their agenda, but I suspect they won’t… only because it’s bad for business… expensive and economically costly.

  8. Carol Costello by proxy
    Posted September 5, 2017 at 12:22 pm | Permalink

    #BREAKING: Javier Palomarez resigns from Trump’s WH National Diversity Council due to DACA decision. Live on @HLNTV

  9. Frosted Flakes
    Posted September 5, 2017 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

    Just thought I would point out that some of the “swastikas” at the skatepark are not swastikas, which might be somehow indicative of how serious the Nazi threat is AA; Or, it might be better to assume that the painter of the non-swastika “swastikas” is, despite his failure to properly paint a swastika, yet another example of the dangerous masses of secret nazis that have been emboldened by Trump rhetoric toward outward support of white supremacy and public dedication to non-white genocide.

    Sorry to point that out. I know. I am a horrible person.

  10. Anonymous
    Posted September 5, 2017 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    How are swastikas not swastikas? Please explain. Is this like when HW told us that the Nazis in Charlottesville couldn’t be real Nazis because they were Jews?

  11. Sarah Huckabee Sanders
    Posted September 5, 2017 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    .@PressSec: “The president’s DACA decision today brings us closer to a safer, fairer and legal immigration system.” fxn.ws/2gDwgax

  12. Frosted Flakes
    Posted September 5, 2017 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

    Jesus Christ. Slow your roll, Anonymous.

    I am not an expert in swastikas but at least two of the swastikas are left pointing and are a buddhist or hindu symbol and nothing to do with Nazis, unfortunately (?).

    In the gallery of photos from the skatepark one of the images was two giant green painted swastikas on both sides of the name “Tony Hawk”. What does this mean? I don’t know.

    We might need to consult an EMU history professor–after we ask him to take time out of his regularly scheduled interpretation of bumper stickers and how they reveal the secret thought processes of “white guys in THOSE trucks”–only then might we be able to find a decent answer to the mystery of swastika-tony-hawk-swastika-and-how-it-relates-to-trump.

  13. Jcp2
    Posted September 5, 2017 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    Republican DACA situation summarized here:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/09/trumps-impending-immigration-sell-out/538896/?google_editors_picks=true

  14. wobblie
    Posted September 5, 2017 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    I think Blue J is probably right. Trump and the Republicans may regret this though. The DREAM Act was introduced into Congress 16 years ago. Bush supported some version, Obama supported some version. Congress refused to pass any form of immigration policy. Thus we end up with Executive Orders which give us our current situation.

    When Congress fails to pass immigration reform in six months, Trump et al. will now have to organize the deportation of nearly a million young people. Do any of you foresee any problems? Think there might be some political price to pay?

    Odds are that next week will change much of the political dynamics in this country. First Harvey. After Irma gets done with Florida we will need all the Mexicans we can find to help rebuild the place. (or perhaps evacuate the survivors since S. Florida may become uninhabitable. ) They are comparing this to Andrew (1992, 25 years ago and you can drive through Homestead and still see thousands of empty concrete pads that once had modular homes on them.) Never rebuilt (a good thing in the grand scheme), glad my daughter has not been able to find work there–not really any better economy than Michigan.

  15. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 7:09 am | Permalink

    “Anonymous
    Posted September 5, 2017 at 1:22 pm | Permalink
    How are swastikas not swastikas? Please explain. Is this like when HW told us that the Nazis in Charlottesville couldn’t be real Nazis because they were Jews?”

    Mark Maynard already tried to smear me with that disgusting smear and got rebuked. You better remain anonymous because I don’t put up wth that shit in real life. You would be sorry if you said that to my face, you cowardly race-baiting scumbag.

  16. Sad
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 8:28 am | Permalink

    Sorry to hear you’re so upset HW.

  17. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 8:45 am | Permalink

    Wouldn’t you be if a local blog kept lying about you in such a way? What if I said a certain commenter here promotes pedophilia because they said everyone does it? That wouldn’t be too cool, would it? I am honest about that NOT being what they said so I don’t make that claim.

  18. Sad
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 8:57 am | Permalink

    Maybe it’s time to find a nicer blog where your insights might be better appreciated?

  19. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    I like exposing your lies to the world though. You should either make factual replies or accept my critique. Mudslinging gets you nowhere in reality.

  20. Sad
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    You’re a man with a mission. Good luck!

  21. maryd
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    People who spew hate sometimes experience Karma…

  22. Sad
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    And sometimes they get elected president.

  23. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    It’s so easy I actually feel sorry for you. Doesn’t take much doing at all. You spend allll this time on your teensy lil blog only to have someone waltz in and easily just wreck it with knowledge every time. It’s embarrassing. I am embarrassed for you.

  24. Jean Henry
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 9:27 am | Permalink

    HW — It’s time to try medication. You are fighting unnecessary battles. I know you believe it is our profound denial of reality at work (and I think we have all reconciled ourselves to you thinking that), but no one hear has given any credence to anything you have said for months. Your perspective is profoundly mis-informed and fucked up, plus you are super aggressive. You are simply like a mosquito. Every once and a while, someone indulges the impulse to swat at you. You have felled no mortal blows, tiny warrior. And you never will. Not even to one idea or assertion. You are only annoying.

    If you are coming here to work out your thinking, like many of us, that’s cool. Just don’t expect any victories. That’s not what discourse is really about. You’d learn a lot more if you are willing to be wrong sometimes… I, like many here, am happy to be shown to be wrong. You just have failed to do that. And, no, you don’t get to decide when you’ve proven someone wrong. That’s up to them to concede. That’s how discourse works.

  25. Sad
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 9:27 am | Permalink

    Yes, you’re compassion always comes through . Thanks.

  26. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 9:31 am | Permalink

    That’s right, maryd. Isn’t it hateful to smear others with false “hate” claims? We all are subject to the action/reaction principle.

  27. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    Jean, you are one of the worst ones. So full of hate no matter what. I was so kind to you I treated you like a baby but you mistook kindness for weakness. Now my patience is all used up.

  28. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 9:38 am | Permalink

    If I am factually incorrect on something then show me, jean. Otherwise you are trying to debate feelings and there really is no way to win or lose that.

  29. Lynne
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 10:26 am | Permalink

    re: “You are simply like a mosquito. Every once and a while, someone indulges the impulse to swat at you. You have felled no mortal blows, tiny warrior. And you never will. Not even to one idea or assertion. You are only annoying.”

    Yes, excellent assessment imho.

  30. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    Yay, it’s Lyin’ Lynne.

  31. Jcp2
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    An anonymous poster physically threatens another anonymous poster for being anonymous because they don’t like what an anonymous poster anonymously posted about their perceptions of what the anonymous poster first posted anonymously. How can we say something to your face if we don’t know who you are?

  32. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 10:43 am | Permalink

    Did I threaten someone physically? I don’t think so unless you consider verbal self defense physical. I’m not trying to challenge someone to a fistfight. I feel if you lie about someone you shouldn’t be extra cowardly and hide behind a screen. Do it to the person’s face.

    When I started posting I offered to have a friendly meeting with MM but he declined. Any time you want to tell me something in person just arrange to meet me somewhere in this town and let’s see how it goes for you to have to deal with your smear target face to face. It can be dangerous to tell the truth these days so I will guard my identity as much as I feel necessary.

  33. maryd
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 10:50 am | Permalink

    Hahahahahahaha! The biggest hater and the most disgusting posts all come from you. I don’t need any smear campaign to convince me of anything. You have done a fine job all by yourself.

  34. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    Quote my most hateful thing then, maryd. If it has shit-talking, which I do engage in to emphasize my points then it must be in context of what I am responding to.

  35. maryd
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    You go ahead and read all your back posts…I do not care to thanks.

  36. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 11:11 am | Permalink

    ‘Cause you have nothing to back up what you say. You’re running on emotion.

  37. maryd
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 11:21 am | Permalink

    Oh yeah..continue to mansplain it to me about my emotions hahahahaha!

  38. maryd
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    And it is a great suggestion for you to go back through your posts here. You need to listen to yourself!

  39. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 11:34 am | Permalink

    Mansplaining is just one of those things you say when you can’t back your shit up. How is what you are saying not based on your feelings or emotions? It sure isn’t based on facts. If it was you could rattle off some legit “hate” I supposedly “spewed.” I was extremely nice here to everyone for a long time, putting up with tremendous abuse. Now it’s turnabout. Now it’s time for your karma to bite you in the ass.

  40. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    Why do supposedly anti-sexist feminists speak in a discriminatory manner? Why do you have a word for when you think men are condescending that doesn’t apply to women?

  41. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    The important part; the factual part is that you have nothing to back up your statement about me. That says it all.

  42. Lynne
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    Nah, mansplaining is what people say to describe the phenomenon where some men will try to explain things in a very patronizing way to women who happen to know more about the subject than they do. It happens all of the time.

  43. Lynne
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    For example, when HW tries to tell maryd that she is running on emotion as if he could possibly judge her emotional state better than she herself can. But if it makes you feel better, I sometimes do that over the internet too even though I am not a man. I also suffer from what a friend likes to call “male answer syndrome” which just goes to show you that anything a man can do, a woman can do too. LOL

  44. Jcp2
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    Lynne, I suspect HW is not using mansplaining in the Rebecca Solnit way, but in the urban dictionary way. I think that in itself explains a lot, but in a nonmansplaining way.

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Mansplain&utm_source=search-action

  45. Lynne
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    JCP2, I think you are right.

  46. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

    It’s so interesting to watch you people squirm away from the point: none of you actually back up what you say. Maryd couldn’t do it and the rest of you can’t either. I’m like “well why is that?” and you are all like “wull I don’t have to tell you if I don’t want to…” You said something to that effect exactly, Lynne and it cracked me up. I still get a chuckle out of it sometimes.

  47. stupid hick
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

    HW, print your comments and ask your psychiatrist or social worker what they think. If you don’t have one, find one ASAP.

  48. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

    So since you, like other women are guilty of mansplaining wouldn’t it be make more sense to call it womansplaining? Why not stop being sexist and just describe the behavior of the individual decoupled from sex? Just say ‘patronizing’ or ‘condescending’.

  49. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    (naive singsong voice:) “Yup, that’s exactly the kind of person that is qualified to decide how I should think!” Good idea, stupid.

  50. nink
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 5:35 pm | Permalink

    “who the fuck is scraeming “LOG OFF” at my house. show yourself, coward. i will never log off”

    https://mobile.twitter.com/dril/status/247222360309121024?lang=en

  51. stupid hick
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

    EOS, will you please help HW find his way back to reality? He might listen to you.

  52. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

    Why do you bother with these little hit and run quips, stupid (and the rest of you?) Do you think they do very much? Is that a real ZINGER in your world? Do you sit there and go “Yeah, back to reality! That really got him good!!! Hyuck hyuck hyuck…”

  53. stupid hick
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    I’m serious. I think even EOS can see you’re not in your right mind. EOS, will you say something to help your brother?

  54. stupid hick
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 6:31 pm | Permalink

    HW, I’m not trying to win an argument with you, and I’m not trying to “zing” you. I want to you be well.

  55. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

    EOS and FF have much more intelligent posts than the MM empty set and I would guess they recognize the same thing in mine. Doesn’t matter if they do or don’t though. That’s herd-think.

  56. stupid hick
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 8:59 pm | Permalink

    EOS, do you see that HW respects you more than other commenters on this blog? What do you tell your friends who believe “Clinton Body Count” theories? Do you say anything to try to help them? What would Jesus do?

  57. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 6, 2017 at 10:55 pm | Permalink

    You don’t think an alarming number of their associates commit suicide or die under unusual circumstances?

  58. EOS
    Posted September 7, 2017 at 4:08 am | Permalink

    Stupid Hick,

    I like your posts better when you link to relevant articles than when you personally attack others on this site. HW has added a lot to this blog and is justifiably frustrated by the steady stream of middle school name calling and personal attacks. Years ago there was a good deal of intelligent conversation shared here. Now…not so much. Somehow a large portion of Americans now believe that tolerance does not include anyone who has a different opinion and that ridicule is an acceptable practice. And if anyone chooses not to engage in belittling and name-calling, then others decide to make up shit to accuse them. We see the progression of these tactics with the Antifa who dress in black and wear masks and physically attack persons who hold different perspectives. It doesn’t bode well for our country or our future.

  59. Sad
    Posted September 7, 2017 at 6:17 am | Permalink

    Wow. Some truths from both sides. Let’s see what today yields?

  60. Jcp2
    Posted September 7, 2017 at 6:34 am | Permalink

    People dressing in one color, wearing masks, and attacking others who hold different perspectives is not a new phenomenon. It’s not acceptable, but it is historical. It’s American.

  61. Sad
    Posted September 7, 2017 at 6:51 am | Permalink

    Isn’t it universal?

  62. puzzled pawn
    Posted September 7, 2017 at 7:03 am | Permalink

    In other words, EOS is not his brother’s keeper, and is content to stand silent while his brother HW self radicalizes himself on a diet of pernicious conspiracy theories. There has emerged in recent years a particular breed of “conservative” who doesn’t care how misguided his fellows are, how crazy the foundation of their beliefs may be, as long as they vote R. As long as the tone is anti liberal. That’s not conservative, that’s radical extremist, and I want nothing to do with it anymore. EOS, you know better, don’t you? When did you lose your principles?

  63. EOS
    Posted September 7, 2017 at 7:10 am | Permalink

    Puzzled,

    What I am is an individualist. I refuse to categorize others or be categorized. I’m not into this “tribal” concept. HW is entitled to his beliefs and I respect that. I think many on this site are far more misguided than HW.

  64. Frosted Flakes
    Posted September 7, 2017 at 7:37 am | Permalink

    Many from the mm community seem to be longing for a perpetual, uninterrupted, and undisturbed circle jerk. A worthy dream that must be actualized by any means necessary.

    The arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward circle jerk.

  65. Jcp2
    Posted September 7, 2017 at 8:08 am | Permalink

    FF,

    Since you brought it up, do you get off by watching, or do you secretly want to join in? Truly disgusted people would have left by now.

  66. Frosted Flakes
    Posted September 7, 2017 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    I’m embarrassed by your questions but super flattered too;) Before I accept your invitation I have a quick question: Does the activities of this group cause blindness or is blindness a prerequisite for joining?

  67. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 7, 2017 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    LEAVE MARKMAYNARD.COM ALOOOONNNE!!!!!

  68. Jcp2
    Posted September 7, 2017 at 9:31 am | Permalink

    FF,

    I’m guessing that you know from extensive personal experience that the answer is no.

  69. Jean Henry
    Posted September 7, 2017 at 9:45 am | Permalink

    FF you act as though HW adds something of meaning to these conversations. I talk to people with differing political views all the time, and learn a great deal. I ;learn nothing from HW except what latest reddit conspiracy theory is brewing. Trolls are not alternative perspectives. There is plenty of disagreement on MM but too few voices. HW has that effect. I have been accused of having that effect. Some people do not like to hear opposing voices. They are welcome to read MM and skip the comments. He rarely says anything that would challenge the standard white liberal progressive viewpoint or community sensibilities. I find HW problematic precisely because his overwhelming presence limits a diversity of voices.

  70. Frosted Flakes
    Posted September 7, 2017 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    “No” to which question?

  71. Dan
    Posted September 7, 2017 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    I’ve been away awhile and looks like I’ve missed some funny shit.

    No idea where this HW dude is coming from, but there is NOT “plenty of disagreement on MM.” as FF said, it is one big hipster circle jerk with the occasional thread like this where everyone piles on the one or two non-jerkers.

    MM.com is the epitome of a political echo chamber

  72. Frosted Flakes
    Posted September 7, 2017 at 10:03 am | Permalink

    I wasn’t referring to you, Jean.

    HW is not crowding out anybodies voice. People are free to type all they want. People are free to ignore anybody they want.

  73. Fake Dan
    Posted September 7, 2017 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    “MM.com is the epitome of a political echo chamber…. which I could easily change by openly sharing my views, and engaging in meaningful conversation, but, as I lack both the intellect and courage, I’ll just take the easy route and criticize.”

  74. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 7, 2017 at 10:10 am | Permalink

    The simple way to say it is you are threatened by my knowledge, Jean. I use facts and reason to make coherent points. You just tar me in general with opinions.

  75. Dan
    Posted September 7, 2017 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    lol.

    thanks for proving my point.

  76. Dan
    Posted September 7, 2017 at 10:15 am | Permalink

    gotta love the irony of you telling someone they lack the intellect and courage to have an honest discussion, while you hide behind a fake username and “take the easy route and criticize.”

    i see nothing has changed

  77. Frosted Flakes
    Posted September 7, 2017 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    With all these anonymous posters, subsumed identities, and anti-identities I take great comfort in knowing there will only ever be one Konald J Crump.

    Good post Fake Dan.

    For people who do not know Dan he is the idiot coward who, in addition to offering his opinion just now, moments ago offered something completely unhelpful and unscientific about something not important on the Global Warming thread. Check it out. He is a real troll.

  78. Dan
    Posted September 7, 2017 at 10:37 am | Permalink

    It’s also telling how people immediately summoned EOS when another poster disagreed with them. They know of only one dissenting view, and automatically equate any new dissenter with EOS, even if they have nothing in common except not joining in the circle

  79. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 7, 2017 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    “puzzled pawn
    Posted September 7, 2017 at 7:03 am | Permalink
    In other words, EOS is not his brother’s keeper, and is content to stand silent while his brother HW self radicalizes himself on a diet of pernicious conspiracy theories. There has emerged in recent years a particular breed of “conservative” who doesn’t care how misguided his fellows are, how crazy the foundation of their beliefs may be, as long as they vote R. As long as the tone is anti liberal. That’s not conservative, that’s radical extremist, and I want nothing to do with it anymore. EOS, you know better, don’t you? When did you lose your principles?”

    I mean you guys are reeeally practiced at using descriptors (how often can one blogger say ‘vile’?) There is no substance though. It’s the written equivalent of pop-tarts for breakfast. I’m busting out cans of intellectual whoop-ass so you are going to need to be better fortified than that. Bring a decent rationale against my information at least, not just opinions based on your impression of me personally. That doesn’t do anything in a debate.

  80. Jean Henry
    Posted September 7, 2017 at 10:43 am | Permalink

    Trump was a perfect match for you HW.

  81. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 7, 2017 at 11:03 am | Permalink

    That’s true, Jean because I like independents who bust the system’s balls.

  82. Jean Henry
    Posted September 7, 2017 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

    https://digest.bps.org.uk/2017/09/01/believing-widely-doubted-conspiracy-theories-makes-some-people-feel-special/

  83. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 7, 2017 at 3:28 pm | Permalink

    Denying reality makes some people feel safe.

  84. Sad
    Posted September 8, 2017 at 5:35 am | Permalink

    HW – maybe you’re right, I like Trump sitting down with Nancy and Chuck. Maybe he will shake things up.

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