Why would any intelligent young women stay in a state that requires the purchase of rape insurance?

    Remember that “rape insurance” legislation that we talked about in December? Well, as of tomorrow, it becomes law in Michigan. I can see the appeal for the twisted old men on the far right who conspired to bring this about, as they’ve long been looking for opportunities to chip away at Roe v. Wade, and further restrict the reproductive freedom of women, but I can’t help but think that there will be unanticipated economic ramifications as the flow of young, college educated professionals leaving Michigan continues to build. I’ve made a decision to stay here and fight, as I know many of you have, but, if I were a younger person, especially a recent college graduate, I can’t help but think that I’d relocate to a community where I was respected, and trusted to make my own decisions when it came to my body and my health. It pains me to say it, but, when my daughter is of age to leave the the nest, and make it on her own in the world, I’m going to suggest that she gets as far away from here as possible, and never looks back, assuming, of course, that we aren’t able to reverse this trend over the next half dozen years. Sadly, though, I think it’s true what that say about Michigan rapidly devolving into the Mississippi of the Midwest, and I can’t imagine that my dreams for her can come to fruition in an environment like that.

    kidadvice2

    As I have very little new to say about this legislation, here, in part, is what I wrote 90 days ago, when the measure was voted into law by the Michigan legislature.

    Late yesterday afternoon Michigan Republicans passed controversial legislation making it illegal for insurance companies to include abortion procedures as part of their standard coverage, even in cases of rape or incest, or where the life of the mother might be in jeopardy. Should women in the sate of Michigan require abortion coverage, in the opinion of these legislators, they should have to buy it on top of whatever insurance they might already have and pay for. Clearly the intention, as with last December’s anti-abortion omnibus bill, is to greatly reduce the number of legal abortions in the state of Michigan, without running afoul of the Supreme Court’s Roe v. Wade decision. In other words, as they can’t legally keep women from having abortions, they’ve essentially decided to make those procedures as costly and inconvenient as possible.

    The law will take effect 90 days after the Michigan Legislature adjourns for the year.

    So, if you think you my may get raped in the new year, you may want to add “abortion insurance” to your Christmas list.

    The passage of this legislation should be a surprise to no one… Last year, as you may recall, anti-abortion Republicans in Lansing, in an attempt to further curtail the reproductive freedom of Michigan women, inserted similar language into a Blue Cross Blue Shield restructuring bill (SB 1293). Governor Snyder, in that instance, did the right thing and vetoed the bill. “When I proposed these reforms (to Blue Cross Blue Shield),” Snyder said, “there was no reference to abortion. Regrettably, those provisions were later added. I don’t believe it is appropriate to tell a woman who becomes pregnant due to a rape that she needed to select elective insurance coverage. And as a practical matter, I believe this type of policy is an overreach of government into the private market.” Unfortunately, others in his party did not see it the same way. They regrouped immediately and began looking for other non-electoral means of accomplishing the same thing, knowing that, it it were ever put to a vote, it would be easily defeated.

    And, with that, the far right initiated a petition drive to get around Snyder’s veto. And it was successful. The Michigan Right to Life petition was sighed by 315,477 people, or about 4% of the state’s voters. And that, for reasons I still don’t quite comprehend, apparently makes the legislation veto-proof.

    It’s absolutely mind boggling to me that just because 4% of Michigan voters signed a petition, victims of rape can now be coerced into carrying the children of their attackers to term. And, yes, I realize that most women who get abortions aren’t the victims of rape. That’s just the most egregious part of all of this. No one, however, regardless of the reason they desire to have an abortion, should be forced to conform to the narrow beliefs of a religious minority. And this is especially true in a country where Roe v. Wade is the law of the land. With all of this said, is it any wonder at all that young, educated women are fleeing our state in droves…

    If the Republicans cared about democracy, they’d allow the question to be put to a vote. This, however, was never about the will of the people. This was about 4% of our population using tricks and gimmicks to get their way, and force the women of Michigan to conform to their narrow interpretation of biblical law. This is coercion plain and simple, and it’s absolutely shameful…

    So, tomorrow it becomes law. No word yet how much this “fundamentalist tax” is going to cost the women of Michigan. One imagines, however, that it won’t be cheap… One also imagines that every parent worth a damn is coming to accept they fact that their daughters will likely leave the state unpin reaching adulthood, never to return again.

    update: I’ve been searching around the internet tonight, trying to get a quote for rape insurance. The closest I could get, though, was this from the CBS affiliate in Detroit.

    …Once the measure takes effect Thursday, it will apply to new or renewed health plans. The state says seven of Michigan’s 45 insurers, including giant Blue Cross Blue Shield, will sell supplemental abortion policies to small and large employers…

    If you know what the costs might be, please leave a comment.

    This entry was posted in Civil Liberties, Health, Michigan, Uncategorized and tagged , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. Post a comment or leave a trackback: Trackback URL.

      51 Comments

      1. Posted March 12, 2014 at 10:52 pm | Permalink

        And here’s a list of all of our elected officials and how they voted on this issue. Please remember to print this list out and take it with you to the polls come November.

        It should also be noted that while Governor Snyder may have vetoed this legislation in its last iteration, that doesn’t mean he’s a friend of women when it comes to safeguarding their reproductive rights. As you may recall, he did sign into law the comprehensive anti-abortion omnibus bill referenced above, during the Republican hijacking of the December 2012 lame duck session.

      2. anonymous
        Posted March 13, 2014 at 8:00 am | Permalink

        There should be an underground railroad to get young women out.

      3. 734
        Posted March 13, 2014 at 8:30 am | Permalink

        I keep telling myself that this is just the death rattle of the far right, and that eventually, due to demographic shifts, it’ll all be behind us. Unfortunately, as they grow more desperate, they also grow more evil. I’m truly concerned about what the future holds for Michigan.

      4. Eel
        Posted March 13, 2014 at 10:50 am | Permalink

        Viagra should not be covered by insurance unless you purchase an Old Man Boner Rider.

      5. Kathryn Loomis
        Posted March 13, 2014 at 11:49 am | Permalink

        “7 insurance companies offering new abortion rider between 32 cents and one penny a month.”

        http://t.co/kkadMJ1QjL

        This article describes the cost for the rape insurance riders that will be on offer through group plans (1 to 32 cents a month). Rape insurance won’t be available to individual consumers:

        http://www.mlive.com/lansing-news/index.ssf/2014/03/7_michigan_insurers_to_offer_a.html

      6. Meta
        Posted March 13, 2014 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

        Rachel Maddow: Michigan is ‘way more insane than anyone nationally gives them credit for’

        MSNBC host Rachel Maddow weighed in on Michigan’s “rape insurance” law on Wednesday, one night before it takes effect, saying it is just one example of state lawmakers’ anti-woman stance.

        “Michigan, you are amazing,” Maddow said. “I continue to maintain that, over the last few years, Michigan’s state government has become way more insane than anyone nationally gives them credit for.”

        The bill, which was approved by the Republican-dominated state legislature in December 2013, bars women from undergoing abortions unless they purchase separate insurance policies. However, those policies cannot be purchased after a woman becomes pregnant, even in cases involving rape or incest.

        “It will now be illegal for your private health insurance in Michigan to cover your abortion unless you thought ahead and bought special coverage just for that,” Maddow explained. “As if lots of people plan ahead for unplanned pregnancies.”

        Maddow also noted that some companies might provide the add-on policies, but that residents buying their coverage under the Affordable Care Act would not be able to abide by the new law.

        “So Michigan law now says that buying separate abortion coverage is the only way you can have your abortion covered by your insurance if you need one,” Maddow said. “But also, that coverage is not affordable for coverage in the state.”

        Read more:
        http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/03/12/rachel-maddow-michigan-is-way-more-insane-than-anyone-nationally-gives-them-credit-for/

      7. Kim
        Posted March 13, 2014 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

        A time will come when we’ll have to launch our babies away from this dying state of ours.

        It will look like this.

        http://eriklundegaard.com/media/2/jorel-lara-kal-el-78.jpg

      8. Mr. X
        Posted March 13, 2014 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

        So abortion riders will not be available to people who have purchased individual coverage through the federal marketplace? That’s bullshit. While I’m happy to hear that those groups managing large health plans won’t be gouging people, and just charging a few cents a month for the additional coverage, it’s unconscionable that others won’t have an option.

      9. Elf
        Posted March 13, 2014 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

        While we’re at it, let’s also stop the federal funding of penis pumps.

        http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/13/22294537-penis-pumps-waste-medicare-millions-inspector-general?lite

      10. EOS
        Posted March 13, 2014 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

        Intelligent women are attracted to a state where they won’t have to pay for the slaughter of innocent life. It’s the dumb women who see free abortions as a preferred choice of birth control who need to leave. Next up on the agenda is to stop taxpayer funding for the mutilation of external genitalia in the misguided attempt to alter a person’s sex.

      11. Posted March 13, 2014 at 10:12 pm | Permalink

        EOS: crafting hatchet-job arguments about things no one is writing about on markmaynard.com since 2008.

      12. Elviscostello
        Posted March 13, 2014 at 11:04 pm | Permalink

        EOS, you bigoted ass! I have two friends from High School who have underwent Gender reassignment surgery. They didn’t do this on a whim. Both struggled for years with the pain of not belonging. Both are accomplished in their fields. Both are happier today than they have ever been. My late Grandmother was a Nurse at U of M Hospital in the 60′s and worked the floor where gender reassignment surgery and treatment started in the US. She was a church-going Pentecostal widow of a Minister, and even she was able to find empathy and compassion. You are a miserable excuse for a Christian and a sad example of a human being.

      13. swift
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 7:54 am | Permalink

        I keep my faith in humanity intact by assuming that EOS is a parody of him or herself — the rightwing nuttiness he/she posts is both too predictable and too zany to be fer real. (Honestly, and ironically, I have never been able to keep his/her gender straight.)

      14. EOS
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 8:11 am | Permalink

        Elvis,

        That’s a load of B.S. During the 60′s most hospitals had prohibitions against performing sex change operations. A person who inquired about this practice was far more likely to receive psychiatric treatment. The very first “reassignment” surgery in the U.S. was at Johns Hopkins in 1966. In 1969 these surgeries were also performed at Stanford and in Colorado. There was no gender reassignment surgery floor at the University Hospital in Ann Arbor in the 60′s and your grandmother didn’t work there with the doctors who started this surgery in the U.S. Probably wasn’t a widow of a Pentecostal minister either since the rest of your story is a complete fabrication. You are not being truthful.

        If people want to disfigure themselves, they should pay for it themselves. It’s not bigotry. It’s a natural consequence of the mandatory socialization of medical care and a value shared by the overwhelming majority of Americans.

      15. Thom Elliott
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 8:44 am | Permalink

        Ugh, who here wants to allow their medical choices to be made for them by medieval barbers like EOS? These people go out of their way to believe and then enforce on others hilariously flawed & debunked howlers about the age of the earth, women’s reproductive health, witchcraft, and sanitation. Who cares what they think? To neo-medievalists like EOS, I’m sure women are just vessals for seed, the seed which turns into a baby itself, or as Aristotle believed, menses coagulates into a baby on its own, the best ancient and medieval science was able to formulate. The connection between sperm and eggs wasn’t understood whatever until the 20th century, a godless time EOS wants to eliminate with draconian legislation hurriedly rammed through a criminal legislature. Thanking EOS in advance for all the dead women.

      16. EOS
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 8:49 am | Permalink

        Half a million dead American women a year – thanks to abortion. The other half are male.

      17. Thom Elliott
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 8:58 am | Permalink

        Some of those fetus would be gay or trans, shouldn’t you be thanking them?

      18. EOS
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 9:04 am | Permalink

        No. Murder is wrong independent of the identity of the victim. And there is no scientific evidence to support your claim that a fetus could be gay or trans.

      19. anonymous
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 9:09 am | Permalink

        This is a fight that you will not win, EOS. Gay marriage is a done deal. It’s sweeping the world. Humanity is evolving. People like you, with their narrow interpretations of ancient texts, are fading into history, thank God.

      20. Thom Elliott
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 9:15 am | Permalink

        Forgive me, I should have said Muslims or blacks, ok now?

      21. Thom Elliott
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 9:18 am | Permalink

        …and it is hilarious you would dare to use contemporary science to back up any assertion you would care to make, anything scientific from the last 400 years is barred to you as a neo-medievalist. (there is no chance you could know about what you claim to)

      22. Posted March 14, 2014 at 9:34 am | Permalink

        Interesting.

      23. Thom Elliott
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 9:35 am | Permalink

        “Murder is wrong independant of the identity of the victim” I mean I just want to laugh, these are the same people who demand endless war against Islam, who root for the US even though it is responsible for between 20-30 million murders in the multiple wars of choice since WW2, you EOS want to personally ‘stand your ground’ and kill blacks for looking at you cockeyed, you are for the murder of Muslims who disagree with America’s criminal foreign policy etc. What you really want is to provide help to rapists because you either identify with them or have done a little rape yourself, and to brutally control women.

      24. EOS
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 9:49 am | Permalink

        Sorry Thom. You are clueless and making up shit. Scientific theory was established by Christians after medieval times.

        Anon, No one said anything about gay marriage. But tell me, if a person has a sex change operation, is their partner no longer homosexual?

      25. Thom Elliott
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 10:02 am | Permalink

        Sorry fascist, contemporary science begins 400 years ago after breaking away from your medieval geocentric mindset. You are entitled to believe in talking snakes and unicorns, but it isnt the 19th century, biblical explanations with no predictive power and aren’t even close to contenders for truth claims in real physical sciences. THEY NEVER WERE, AND WILL NEVER BE AGAIN. Nothing you say is veridical or has any truth value outside your terror-cell’s echo chamber. You cant use any modern science to back up anything you say, you believe in a worldview that stopped moving forward in the 17th century.

      26. EOS
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 10:09 am | Permalink

        Funny how I have earned my living in the scientific field for my entire life.

      27. double anonymous
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 10:25 am | Permalink

        Jesus, that’s the most terrifying thing I’ve ever heard.

      28. Eel
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 10:27 am | Permalink

        I feel like we might be on the cusp of an M. Night Shyamalan twist.

        Could it be that EOS is UM president Mary Sue Coleman? Or, worse yet, Francis Collins?

      29. Posted March 14, 2014 at 11:09 am | Permalink

        I never really liked Mary Sue Coleman.

      30. Elviscostello
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 11:10 am | Permalink

        EOS- I don’t come on here and slam people. You are the exception. Fuck you. My Grandmother was a LPN at U of M for 35 years. She did work in gender reassignment. My Grandfather was church of God ( Cleveland, TN) minister until 3 heart attacks took him from the ministry. Finally, my Grandmother was more Christian than you’ll ever dream to be. I’m not.

      31. EOS
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 11:27 am | Permalink

        Your grandmother didn’t work in gender reassignment surgery in the 60′s and this type of surgery did not start at U of M. I didn’t slam you. I pointed out the errors in the claims you made. Quite a bit different from your angry response.

      32. Thom Elliott
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 11:40 am | Permalink

        I suppose it’s not surprising that you work in a “scientific” field (which catagorically remains to be seen because you are an anonymous scumbag), and hold absurdly erroneous views regarding science. I’ve worked in law for a long time, and know very little about how it works internally. I’ve never worked in science at all, and yet I know you’re 100% full of dogshit, and that there is infact plenty of clinical research on uterine hormone environments that produce gay, or intersexed children. You’re a fraud, and a false xtian who wants to force women to have rape babies because you either like rape, and plan on having some rape children, or just hate women.

      33. EOS
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 11:45 am | Permalink

        So Thom, if a person has a sex change operation, is their partner no longer homosexual?

      34. jcp2
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 12:01 pm | Permalink

        I know a married couple (man and woman) where the man transitioned to woman. They consider themselves lesbians now.

      35. Thom Elliott
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

        As you may or may not know, not everyone who is trans IDs as gay, some view themselves as gender dysphoric heterosexuals, beings in the wrong gendered body. A psychological dysharmony between brain sex with presenting body is the often the cause of the internal struggle which is ameliorated by surgery. Sexuality is indeed fluid, so a samesex partnership could continue after transition, in the same way some heterosex partners continue to stay married after a partner’s transition. This is beyond the point, but there is no such thing as postively hetero vs positvely homosexual, sexuality exists in a spectrum of behaviors and no human beings are 100% anything. Yes even you EOS.

      36. Gretchen Whitmer by proxy
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

        I wanted to share a speech I intended on delivering to my Republican colleagues on the floor of the Michigan Senate today as the offensive new “rape insurance” law they passed has now taken effect. Unfortunately, they adjourned the Senate today without giving me my constitutional right to give this statement, but while they may not have wanted to hear it, I wanted to share exactly what I had planned on saying to them.

        I rise today to remind my Republican colleagues of what today is.

        As of today, your rape insurance proposal is now the law of the land in Michigan.

        Thanks to what every single one of you on that side of the aisle did, rape victims in Michigan that become pregnant from their attack will now be told by their doctor – and their private insurance company – that they’re on their own.

        Yes, a victim of a sexual assault in Michigan will now have to face the reality that their Republican legislators – those who decry government involvement in health care on a daily basis – passed a law that does exactly that. Except it only applies to women, so apparently that doesn’t count.

        And if taking away the rights of rape victims weren’t enough, thanks to what you did, Michigan women with wanted pregnancies who are told by their doctors that something has gone horribly wrong and their pregnancy must be terminated will be told that their government doesn’t think that’s necessary medical care.

        They too will now face a reality that you have prevented their private insurance company from covering the exact care that’s needed, that their doctor recommends, and is in the best interest of their own health.

        In short, it’s a whole new era of unequal health care you’ve created here today, an era in which women are treated as second class citizens and told their male dominated legislature and a the extremist special interest group that funds their election campaigns know far better about the types of health care coverage they should have than their own doctor does.

        So I have to ask, why aren’t you speaking out proudly about this today?

        Is this not exactly what you wanted?

        Is this not exactly what your vote was in favor of?

        Or is it because, god forbid, you actually know what you did is wrong? That you know your vote that created this disgusting law was the absolute wrong vote to make? That if you could go back in time, maybe you’d put the health and the rights of your wives and your daughters ahead of what Right to Life told you to do that day?

        I know that’s true for at least some of you.

        Some of you told me yourselves in private shortly after the vote was taken that you wished you had the courage to vote against this disgusting bill.

        You know who you are. I don’t need to name any names here today. But if you came to me that day seeking absolution for what you did, I’m here to tell you that on behalf of the millions of women and young girls you belittled that day and whose lives you’ve hurt as a result, the answer is no.

        The people of Michigan asked you not to create this law. You didn’t listen.

        My colleagues and I shared deeply personal stories – stories that none of us should have had to speak about publicly but felt compelled to in an effort to get you to actually think about what you were about to do.

        We tried in vain to show you that your actions would have very real and very serious consequences on countless women throughout our state, including some of us right here in this very building.

        But you didn’t care. You didn’t even have the courage to stand up and respond, or utter a single word out loud as to why you were about to pass this terrible law.

        You instead sat silent, content to push your voting buttons and cash the campaign check you’d soon be receiving from those who were telling you to do this.

        And so, here we are today. Rape insurance is now the law of the land, and not a single one of you wants to mark the occasion. So I’m doing it for you.

        As this horrible law takes effect today, I want you to remember what you did.

        The next time you read a story in the news about a woman being raped, remember that you turned your back on her and told her that she doesn’t deserve every available medical option that’s available to her.

        When you hear of a woman facing a difficult pregnancy, one that may sadly end prematurely, remember that you told her that her health and well-being is less important than your ability to get the endorsement of a radical special-interest group.

        And when women from across the state ask you why you would do something so offensive, remember that you had a chance to stand up for them and put their interests ahead of the absolute worst of what politics can be, and you chose not to.

        I’m proud to know that I come here every day and fight to make Michigan a better place for my 2 daughters. But I’m disgusted to know that they’re now growing up in a state in which this kind of misogyny is now the law of the land.

        I had to agree when I heard Rachel Maddow say this about our legislature just last night: “Over the last few years, Michigan state government has become way more insane than anyone nationally gives them credit for.”

        Well, you may not be getting enough credit for it nationally, but across our state, the people know this exact kind of insanity happening here at their Capitol all too well.

        I’m going to keep fighting on their behalf, and I can promise you that there are a whole lot of people out there ready to keep on fighting with me.

        I haven’t forgotten what today means. Nor have the people of Michigan.

        And you better believe we’re going to remember it November as well.

      37. EOS
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

        This is a difficult concept for me to grasp. A man is homosexual because of the hormonal milieu of the womb and is attracted to other men. But if the man he is attracted to is really a woman trapped in a man’s body, then the fluidity of gender and the environmental clues allows the homosexual man to morph into a heterosexual man with a real opposite sex attraction? If sexuality is really that fluid, then why is there such opposition to reparative therapy?

      38. Posted March 14, 2014 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

        What is “the scientific field?” I can think of many scientific fields. I wasn’t aware that there was only one.

        Perhaps EOS means to say “engineering?”

      39. EOS
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

        Why a Wolowicz? I could as easily be a theoretical physicist.

      40. Thom Elliott
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

        You talk as though it were some rigid one-to-one correspondence, (purposefully) neglecting the spectral nature of preformativity, sexuality, and gender. Pretty sure it isn’t hard for you to grasp at all, but that you are so internally constrained in your thinking by fascist ideology you cant accept anything outside of your enforced mindset. I think people are rightfully dubious on the effectiviness of reparative “therapy” scientifically, and then it seems to be little more than a false xtian cult, and a politically useful cudgel for fascists.

      41. EOS
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 1:26 pm | Permalink

        Thom,
        You often remind me of the jailhouse lawyer on “In Living Color”.

      42. Thom Elliott
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

        they allow you to watch that blasphemous negro program in the bunker?

      43. EOS
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

        It’s my bunker. I control the remote.

      44. Stefanie Stauffer
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

        “Why would any intelligent young women stay in a state that requires the purchase of rape insurance?”

        To challenge it, of course!

        And we have 90 days to do just that.

        “If we can collect enough signatures for a public referendum on the “rape insurance” measure, we can put this awful legislation up for a statewide vote. But we only have 90 days to do it. Let’s get those signatures and take Michigan back from the GOP!”

        SIGN HERE:
        http://act.watchdog.net/petitions/4178?l=Vc4bk4a-TiA

      45. Dan
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

        Thom,

        The reason you don’t know shit about how law works, is because youre a debt collector, not a lawyer. You don’t work in law. You just harass people on the phone and online, working for credit card companies and calling poor people in bad situations names and shaming them.

      46. lorie
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

        um…newsflash…they are already leaving (or are planning to when they graduate)

      47. Thom Elliott
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

        Ugh, look what the internet has vomited my way. Hey punk, I’m a legal assistant, I even do a little probate law, so jeah, I work in law, I’m not a lawyer but grew up in a law office, I do know a little more then the average bear. I’m not a debt collector, I never talk to anyone in the public, I’m entirely a paper pusher/gobetween. So I’m a bueaucratic evil, sure, but you’re the nazi research scientist genius who wastes the tax payers’ money playing on the internet, and a pathetic, pisspoor debator.

      48. Dan
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

        Really Thom?

        Cause there are several posts on the internet of people complaining that your family “law firm” is a bunch of harassing debt collector crooks, with you replying to the comments. Calling the commentors criminals and telling them they should be in jail.

      49. Thom Elliott
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

        Jeah, we get an F with the BBB, she would just throw the letters away, and yet she was awarded 2007 Michigan business woman of the year by the Granholm admin. Unsurprisingly debt collection law offices are not popular with the general public, the same general public that screams with a frothy mouth that capitalism is the only moral system and blah blah blah. Like a decade ago I used to troll my mother’s hate sites, of which there are are plenty, and guess what; some of those people are thieves. I used to say horrifying things on goth poetry sites a decade ago as well, and depending on my mood; I still have some horrifying shit to say. Why dont you grow up?

      50. Dan
        Posted March 14, 2014 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

        thank you for finally admitting that you harassed families in bad situations that were struggling to pay bills. had you done so the last time I pointed it out, I would have left you alone.

        I think you’re the epitome of a hypocrite, but at least you can admit being a dick in the past.

        I’ll drop the law/debt collecting shit. But I still think you are clinically insane with your philosophical rants.

      51. EOS
        Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:00 am | Permalink

        http://www.patheos.com/blogs/philosophicalfragments/2012/08/24/i-am-a-hate-filled-christian/

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