Would you pay $5 to berate a public school teacher at Saturday’s “Patriots in the Park” event with Sarah Palin?

    According to reports emanating from the swirling gyre of paranoia and retardation that is the Willow Run Tea Party Caucus, it looks as though everyone’s favorite demagoguing mama grizzly, Sarah Palin, will be with us this weekend, promoting the overthrow of our democratically elected officials and extolling the virtues of corporate fascism. According to organizers of the event at which she will be speaking, Palin “literally bent over backwards to clear her schedule” when she heard that the few thousand dollars raised from the event would benefit wounded soldiers. (Apparently, her considerable speaking fee, which is being paid by David Koch’s astroturf front group Americans from Prosperity, wasn’t as much of a factor.) The event, which is being called Patriots in the Park (because, really, don’t all true patriots like to refer to themselves as patriots), is scheduled to run from 12:00 to 6:00 this Saturday, at the Wayne County Fairgrounds, in Belleville. Admission is free, but there’s a $5 charge for parking. Also …and this is the interesting part… it looks as though vendor tables can be had for $100.

    I don’t know if I have the balls to actually do it, but I was thinking that it would be fun to have a table at this event. I’ve been kicking around a few ideas, and, so far, my favorite is a kind of reimagined dunk tank, where, for five dollars, patriots would be given an opportunity to either berate a public school teacher, throw garbage at a welfare queen, or spit at an uninsured child. As I’m envisioning it, I’d have all three lined up, and patriots would be given the choice as to who they would most like to assault. If I could keep a straight face, I think it would be incredible.

    Oh… I can’t figure out what the fuck it means, but here’s my favorite part from the coverage on AnnArbor.com.

    …“I think (Palin’s) voice will give ears to our voice,” said Dennis Moore, a director of the Willow Run Tea Party…

    That pretty much says it all, doesn’t it?

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      83 Comments

      1. Edward
        Posted July 10, 2012 at 11:44 pm | Permalink

        I have a new slogan for your site.

        “MarkMaynard.com, giving teeth to your feet.”

        I was going to go with “giving noses to your ears,” but I really wanted to incorporate feet.

        Also, did you see that Thayrone X will be hosting this event?

      2. Eel
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 5:42 am | Permalink

        “Call a fireman a parasite.”

      3. Tommy
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 6:21 am | Permalink

        If you did something like this, you would be shut down and removed within five minutes.

        By the way, the State senator who is going to be there – Pat Colbeck – was once my boss. A very bright, big picture kind of guy – a rocket scientist in fact. I cannot believe how he has turned totally into a tea party tool. Did not strike me as the type.

      4. Topher
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 7:51 am | Permalink

        Or you could go in another direction – some other ideas:

        -Officiate a gay marriage on the spot
        -Meet a real black person who breaks your stereotypes (as people approach you somehow mic their racing heartbeats and amplify the sound through speakers)
        -Find a doctor and set up free physicals
        -Have a 350.org big poster with an e-mail sign up

      5. Watching Laughing.
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 7:59 am | Permalink

        Tea Party Event, Utter nonsense.

        WL.

      6. Ben
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 8:05 am | Permalink

        Did you notice the Troy City mayor is going to be there too? The one who keeps insulting gay people?

      7. Thom Elliott
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 8:21 am | Permalink

        I think the cryptic message from the Tea Partier is probably an attempt at Biblical riffing. When the world is ending in the Revelation of John, he repeatedly says “He who has an ear, let him hear”. I would hazard to guess this Tea Partier believes he can get more people with ‘ears’ or attrociously ill-informed reactionary middle class whites, to ‘hear’, or take up arms against the Orwellian forces of healthcare reform. It is also entirely possible he believes Palin is the Whore of Babylon from prophecy, which along with the vision of the slain lamb with seven eyes, the falling star Wormwood, and the crowned hydra emerging from the sea heralds the coming of the reign of Antichrist. Which is believed to be immanent and related to the US for some reason, but the US is never mentioned in the Bible once.

      8. dragon
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 8:55 am | Permalink

        “When Harold Ford first farmed this great land, he carved those big ideas he had about cars and roads and even more about all those jobs he could create. And by smashing through those walls of innovation, he breathed in the deep Spirit of this wild and open land.
        Imagine if Mr Ford tried to manifest in our economy the same monumental failures of the Obama gang of Chicago cronies? The fact is, going back to the founding pioneers of freedom, Harold knew that to replicate the Socialist nations that Obama loves so much was the wrong track to take.”

      9. Knox
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 8:58 am | Permalink

        A “learn to read” booth?

        I’m tempted to go, and see what these people are like, but I can’t see giving them $5 for parking, or $1 for a hot dog. I know that they say they’ll be giving the money to charity, but I don’t know that I trust them.

      10. Eel
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 9:04 am | Permalink

        A more appropriate quote:

        “Palin promises to give voice to our fear, and help us identify scapegoats.”

        I also find it interesting that Palin says she cleared her schedule when she heard that this event might likely raise a few thousand dollars for wounded soldiers, ignoring the fact that she’s likely being paid more than 10-times whatever amount is being raised, just to show up.

      11. anonymous
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 9:12 am | Permalink

        I think it might be interesting to set up a booth and interview people, asking about the entitlements that they receive, and why, in their opinion, they’re alright, while those claimed by others aren’t. Maybe I’m off base, but I imagine that quite a few people attending this will be retired auto workers, and I’d be really interested to know why it is that they think the pensions of public employees should be eliminated, when they continue to draw retirement benefits themselves.

      12. AndyC
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 9:41 am | Permalink

        Forget the parking. It’s only a 8 mile bike ride and a very nice one too.

      13. Eel
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 9:52 am | Permalink

        You don’t expect a welfare queen to ride a bike 8 miles, do you? Her fur coat might get sweaty.

      14. Bob Krzewinski
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 11:05 am | Permalink

        Someone also needs to be dressed up like a Canadian so people can bash their socialized, “rationed” health care. Lets see, to make a Tea Partier identify a Canadian, you would need them to dress up and act like Bob and Doug Mackenzie, but even then they might not get it. Maybe someone in a hockey outfit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PClt2c5cDfo

      15. Anonymous Mike
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

        “Pull a respirator off a dying first responder.”

      16. Posted July 11, 2012 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

        I like this idea. I think I will set up a pool and lie on a float and talk and talk about how I am doing nothing for the next 8 weeks and do even less during the school year. Then I will take one of my huge paychecks, get cash for it, throw it to the ground and roll around it. We will end the show by lighting up joints with $20 bills that I hand out.

      17. 734
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

        What about selling grainy images of a young Obama feasting on the blood of a white virgin in a communistic Kenyan sex ritual?

      18. Thom Elliott
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

        For anyone who hasn’t looked at the Willow Run Tea Party website, it is filled with the most unbelievable ideas. It is where the infamous Tatersalad posts, I just watched the most insane video he posted there. For people who are losing everything to corperate greed and climate change, it is like they are obsessed with an ideology which has no presence in the world; communism. Every single one of these people’s real problems outside of their paranoid delusion are a result of the natural tendancies of capitalist elite. Our president, who they say is of all things is a Marxist, #1 contributer are Wall St firms, do you think those vampire-squid would make such huge investments if he were against capitalism fundamentally? This notion of communism just shows their hatred of Obama is pure racism, Obama is the Wall St president, he is capitalist through and through.

      19. Dan
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

        Thom,

        Arent you the hypocrite that legally defends these “vampire-squid” capitalist elite on Wall St?

      20. Thom Elliott
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

        Dan, aren’t you the vapid troglodyte eater who just doesn’t get it? I’m too depressed today to enjoy fighting with you Dan, the world is just too odious to me to wrangle with your insipid bullshit, like a gnat in my ear. Suffice it to say, you don’t understand me, or the world, and you’ll die one day never having woken up from wandering in your semi-literate daze. Don’t you have a feedbag filled with syrup and fried flesh to strap over your grizzled maw while you tune out to professional sports blather?

      21. Dan
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

        I don’t blame you Thom. Id be depressed too if everything I said was a complete fraud.

        I just don’t know how anyone can read your posts without acknowledgeing what bullshit it is. You seriously are going to rant about Wall St greed wine the banks are the ones that literally pay your way. You’re a fraud to the 10rth degree. You might as well have a pig roast at your air conditioned house and put on Fox News

      22. Thom Elliott
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

        Dan, it is a worthless endevor to point out anything to your bovine intellect. I may be a fraud, I’m not, but let’s say for arguement sake I am. I utterly condemn modernity and modern technology, which doesn’t mean I am against technology itself, but drive a car and use the internet. My position is informed by the greatest philosopher of the 20th century; Martin Heidegger. Heidegger was a rector at a Nazi university, the person who I represent intellectually was at one time a card carrying member of the NSDAP, he was thrown out, but he still was. It does nothing to my arguement at all how I am trapped by the ubiquity of modernity, I see through it, my arguement stands, which I should remind you that you barely grasp, and have no context for evaluation.

      23. bee
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

        dragon- where is that harold ford bit from? Is it real? Is is tp rhetoric meaning Henry?

      24. Dan
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

        Thom,

        Im not referring to your nonsense about old philosophers. Im talking about how your pay check comes as a result of working for Wall St banks. The same ones you rant about as capitalist elite and vampire squid

      25. Thom Elliott
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

        Dan, where does your paycheck come from? I work for my family lawfirm while at university, it makes no difference at all, no one is safe in modernity. It also misses the point. What human beings must do in order to survive in modernity makes everyone complicit. I know you stalk my FB page, probably groaping yourself, it sometimes lists my address on there, have you been driving by, checking out my spot as well? You been stalking my girlfreind’s FB too?

      26. Dan
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

        Surprise surprise. A hipster living off of his parents. Who could believe it!

        Thom, my paycheck comes from my own hard work. I don’t sit around and rant about something and then go get employment from that very thing.

        Like I said you’re a fraud. If you really cared about the country or the environment or the people you would find a job that isn’t directly supporting banks and the corruption you rant about

      27. Thom Elliott
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

        Hey fucker, I have been nothing but honest with you, although you don’t fucking deserve it, you can’t anwser my questions you fucking pig because you probably collect social security in a basement. Your flabbly pink ass you work hard, I used to cut meat for a living before I was injured, I am against that shit too.

      28. Thom Elliott
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

        WHAT DO YOU DO PIGGY??

      29. Dan
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

        Lmao. Look at the hipster rant! “You’ve never heard this word before” I mean the jokes literally write themselves. Hilarious

        I might ashave well say: Id tell you what I do for a living but you’ve probably never heard of it. Lol.

        Im a research scientist. I work at Michigan.

        Happy now?

      30. Dan
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

        But to your point, your act would be equivalent to someone ranting and raving about how social security should be abolished and then that person collecting social security. That’s the level of hypocrite that you are

      31. Posted July 11, 2012 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

        Lol.

      32. Sandy D.
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

        Great post, except for the use of the word “retardation”. Tea partiers don’t have an intellectual disabilities so much as confused, deliberately chosen stupidities.

      33. tommy
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

        Dan is a research scientist at a publicly funded university that get quite a bit of its research monies from ….. the government. whatever cred you had is gone … ‘my paycheck comes from my own hard work’ and is funded by the government. Dan – fuck you!!!

      34. Dan
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

        Lol Tommy. Get a clue. Grant money and project funds aren’t given away for nothing. We have to work for out pay.

        WTF are you talking about?

      35. Dan
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

        tommy,

        You probably have me mistaken for someone that is anti-government, or anti-government spending. I am not that.

        I am anti- union, and anti-military. And I guess anti-terrible budgets. Thats about it.

        I am pro government, pro welfare, pro unemployment, pro medicaid/care, pro abortion, pro Obamacare, etc.

        so again, WTF are you talking about?

      36. alan2102
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 11:01 pm | Permalink

        “pro government, pro welfare, pro unemployment, pro medicaid/care, pro abortion, pro Obamacare” blah blah blah BULLSHIT! Don’t try to confuse us AGAIN with that crap, Dan. You’re a tea-party crank through and through, just trying to put up a smokescreen.

        Or, just to echo Thom: You’re a fucking jive-ass pig-fucker and you don’t fucking deserve shit because you’re a fucking ass-wipe of a fuckwad who doesn’t even understand Heidegger or modism or nihilernity.

      37. Patriot Dan
        Posted July 11, 2012 at 11:21 pm | Permalink

        I for one don’t know why Palin is collecting handouts for wounded soldiers?!!! Isn’t the job of a soldier to wound other people and not get wounded? WTF? It’s insane enough that these failed government workers are still getting handouts stolen from my paycheck. BTW. If I performed as well as these “soldiers” I wouldn’t have paycheck. Unlike government workers I don’t get paid for failure. Now Palin wants to give them more money for not performing their job all for what? The pleasure of seeing her literally bending over backwards? Here’s a tip Sarah. If I want to give charity to a failed government worker I’ve got plenty standing with cardboard “help me” signs on every corner and plenty more in city hall.

      38. Thom Elliott
        Posted July 12, 2012 at 7:58 am | Permalink

        I agree with alan2102. A research scientist? I’ve heard of that, you hack up stolen monkeys in order to show corperations how much monkeys like to bleed. You’re at the front line of technological nihilism and animal torture, Right? Something like that? You poison rats with petrochemically derived sweetener? Who’s the fraud? A near illiterate research scientist, funded by my tax dollars, sucking down fried flesh and cutting up animals, who stalks my FB page, masturbating. Dan, you have got nothing on me, you swine, I can see why my position is so offensive to you, you are the very scum it is intended to illuminate.

      39. Thom Elliott
        Posted July 12, 2012 at 8:10 am | Permalink

        What kind of research is my tax dollars being squandered on piggy? How much money from the govt goes to your inhumane research that could be going to special ed, roads, libraries, etc? Studying the effects of some new solvent on rabbit eyes? Crushing baboon heads in a vice to simulate car crashes? What violent and black nihilism does your research divison study?

      40. Dan
        Posted July 12, 2012 at 8:11 am | Permalink

        lmao. Yup, I torture monkeys during the day, and burn your tax dollars at night. Youve got me pegged. lol. I work at a computer all day.

        Again, this isnt about me anyway. I’m not the one ranting and raving 24/7 about anti-consumerism and corporate greed, and then working on behalf of Wall St banks, driving around my fossil fuel vehicle, and using a smartphone made in Japan or China. That would be you.

      41. Thom Elliott
        Posted July 12, 2012 at 9:03 am | Permalink

        Yuk it up piggy, I simply don’t rant and rave everyday, I’m not a hipster or some dillitant, or whatever it is you think while you lick the sticky salty sauce from your pink fingers and soft hands while “working hard” in front of a computer all day. You don’t know what work is you translucent swine, you’re one of those flabby amoral thoughtless cogs in the banality of evil, who has never had an independant insight in his life, who measures all things in material terms. Again, call me whatever pig, ill be basking in the illumination of the wisdom of sages while you’re thoughtlessly craming your filthy mouth with murdered chicken flesh, and choking down sugar solvent in your glib entitlement.

      42. Alice Krum
        Posted July 12, 2012 at 9:31 am | Permalink

        It’s nice to see that they’ve changed their tune on wounded veterans. I can still remember how, during the Republican National Convention a few years ago, they were wearing tiny bandaids with purple hearts drawn on them, belittling the injuries of John Kerry, who was wounded several times in Vietnam. One hopes this new sensitivity toward American’s veterans continues.

      43. Dan
        Posted July 12, 2012 at 9:47 am | Permalink

        Thom, there’s a picture of you in M-W under hipster. You’re the quintessential arrogant, delusional, conforming-non-conformist hypocrite that is the stereotype of a hipster. Hell, you even milk your parents at your age. It doesnt get any more hipster than you.

        But whatever. I’m done with this pissing match with you. I’ll just randomly point out your hypocrisy from now on. Like how this thread started about you ranting against wall street banks.

      44. kjc
        Posted July 12, 2012 at 9:53 am | Permalink

        this can’t be good for anybody.

      45. josh
        Posted July 12, 2012 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

        this entire thread
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9kpTvm6CYA

      46. Elviscostello
        Posted July 12, 2012 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

        Dan, I remember you now. You are the one who wants us to put out your fires, but you don’t want to pay for it. You don’t want us firefighters joining in a “nasty union” and god forbid, collectively bargain for a middle class living. Do me a favor, move to Scranton. You’ll be happy there. All those greedy firefighters and cops and useless city employees now make minimum wage. Of course, if that’s still too much, there’s always Haiti or Somalia.

      47. Elviscostello
        Posted July 12, 2012 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

        Dan, I remember you now. You are the one who wants us to put out your fires, but you don’t want to pay for it. You don’t want us firefighters joining in a “nasty union” and god forbid, collectively bargain for a middle class living. Do me a favor, move to Scranton. You’ll be happy there. All those greedy firefighters and cops and useless city employees now make minimum wage. Of course, if that’s still too much, there’s always Haiti or Somalia.

      48. Watching Laughing.
        Posted July 12, 2012 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4TzXkRdKvo&feature=fvwrel&NR=1

        WL.

      49. Pal
        Posted July 12, 2012 at 10:16 pm | Permalink

        Angry angry fuck fuck fuck!

      50. Patriot Dan
        Posted July 12, 2012 at 10:30 pm | Permalink

        I’ve spent 20+ hours searching the web for images of Sarah Palin “literally bending over backwards.” This is the closest I’ve found.

        For personal reasons, I would really like to find an image of the actual Mrs. Palin bending over backwards. If anyone can post proof of this here, I thank you.

      51. Ed
        Posted July 12, 2012 at 11:23 pm | Permalink

        It’s not exactly what you’re looking for, but I thought that this might help you make it through the night Patriot Dan.

        http://static8.businessinsider.com/image/4e49467fecad04747a000009/michele-bachmann-corndog.jpg

        Thank you for your service to our country, even if it is just watching Fox News and shopping at Walmart.

      52. Eel
        Posted July 13, 2012 at 8:29 am | Permalink

        Patriot Dan, you just need to broaden your search criteria. If you do, I think you’ll find images of her in all kinds of positions.

        http://wa1.cdn.3news.co.nz/3news/AM/0-Articles/131481/nailin-palin_320.jpg?width=460

      53. Posted July 13, 2012 at 9:17 am | Permalink

        I like you Thom but you need to reign it in a bit I mean you sound foolish ranting about hard work, when you have your rent and bills payed for by your mom because you “work” in her law office. You are not a smug arrogent person in real life,why do you feel the need to act like one online?
        As for the rest of you, yeah Palin sucks,but at this point she is nothing more then a reality tv star. Maybe the energy used to protest her could be put to better use. I don’t know,maybe protesting against the increased use of military drones and the hundreds of innocent people being blown up overseas by the CURRENT admin. Or is war cool now, because Obama is the one pushing it?

      54. Brainless
        Posted July 13, 2012 at 10:20 am | Permalink

        Shhhh… It’s impolite to talk about war among so many Democruds. Not cool, dude. The Republicants might figure out that Obama is doing exactly what they want.

      55. Dan
        Posted July 13, 2012 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

        @Elvis

        You are “mis-remembering.” I’ve never once said I want someone to put out my fires but dont want to pay for it. And I dont need to move to Scranton. I live in a community where I am comfortable with the tax rate paid to fire fighters and the level of service they provide.

      56. Elviscostello
        Posted July 13, 2012 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

        Dan, my apology. I searched back, and found that I was wrong. You were not the person who had slammed firefighters and unions on a previous post. Once again, I was wrong and apologize for my bad.

      57. Dan
        Posted July 13, 2012 at 11:15 pm | Permalink

        No biggie Elvis. I assume you were referring to alan2012. He was the one advocating volunteer firefighters. Personally I think that is insane

        But to be fair, I think moat posters here are borderline insane

      58. Patriot Dan
        Posted July 13, 2012 at 11:26 pm | Permalink

        I hate moat posters too.

        I just want a photo of someone doing what she said she would do.

      59. alan2102
        Posted July 14, 2012 at 7:16 am | Permalink

        Dan:

        Ah yes, I well remember that thread…
        http://markmaynard.com/2012/01/whats-really-likely-to-happen-if-the-ypsi-income-tax-doesnt-pass/

        There were several hysterical reactions, not unlike yours, Dan, some of them suggesting almost that civilization would be at an end if volunteers were to ASSIST professionals in their firefighting work. Sheesh. The level of reaction and idiocy was hard to believe.

        It gave me some pause about the prevailing I.Q. in Ypsilanti, and whether I should be serious about moving there. Though, it is true, the city cannot be judged by the intemperate words of a few morons.

        As I said on that thread, in one reply (and I hereby direct this to you, Dan):

        “Did you read the links I posted? Did you read about Germany’s experience? If not, why not? Why not look into this, instead of dissing it in a knee-jerk manner? If it can be shown to be a bad idea, OK, fine, drop it. But don’t just diss it, reactively.”

        and:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volunteer_fire_department
        “According to the National Fire Protection Association, 71 percent of firefighters in the United States are volunteers.[1]”
        “Volunteer fire departments are providing the majority of Germany’s and Austria’s civil protection services, alongside other volunteer organizations. In medium-sized cities and communities, fire departments will often be partially staffed by career firefighters. They ensure the rapid availability of some of the department’s fire apparatus, with the remaining apparatus staffed and brought to the scene of the emergency by volunteers as soon as they arrive at the department.”
        

      60. alan2102
        Posted July 14, 2012 at 7:25 am | Permalink

        Oh by the way, Dan, on that thread you wrote: “Your [Ypsilanti's] police and fire forces are much larger than needed.”

        Is it so? I replied to that with the following:

        “I Bing-ed for “police per capita”, and came up with this interesting wiki page:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_size_of_police_forces
        It seems that the global median is about 300 police per 100,000 pop. If ypsi has 35 police for 20,000 pop, that’s equal to 175 per 100,000 – somewhat over half the global median.”

        ….. hardly consistent with your assertion that their forces are “much larger than needed.” I went on to mention problems with counting “police”. But in any case you did not respond. Why not? Cat got your tongue?
        

      61. Dan
        Posted July 14, 2012 at 7:43 am | Permalink

        alan,

        my basis for that was area served, not population served. At any rate, you may be right about population based numbers (although the national average is 233).

        But the fact remains that Ypsi cant afford the police it currently employs, mainly due to union demands, i.e., legacy costs.

      62. alan2102
        Posted July 14, 2012 at 8:37 am | Permalink

        Dan: “the fact remains that Ypsi cant afford the police it currently employs”

        Maybe not, but that does not address the issue on the table. I questioned your assertion that the ypsi forces are “much larger than needed”. What is your basis for that assertion? Maybe you are right, but you’ve not presented any evidence, unless I missed something.

        regarding “area served”, vis:

        http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/pdlc00.pdf
        Table 2. Number of full-time sworn personnel in police departments serving
        cities with a population of 250,000 or more, 1990 and 2000
        …. per 10 square miles, in year 2000, number ranged from 78 to 114.

        Hence: Ypsilanti, with 35 in a four-square-mile area, (assuming that 35 number to be correct), is about the same, or maybe slightly lighter-staffed, than other U.S. cities, according to this DOJ report. (Though, granted, larger cities than ypsi.)

        But, please enlighten us. Cite sources for your assertion. Don’t hold back!

      63. Dan
        Posted July 14, 2012 at 9:45 am | Permalink

        Alan,

        My basis for that statement is the well quoted statistics comparing Ypsi and Ypsi Twps officer staffing levels. The township manages just fine with less coverage, and (image that) operates within its budget.

        That whole argument was based on what the city can and can not afford. it cant afford the level of service that you seem to be advocating for. Other, nearby communities manage with less coverage, so why does Ypsi need more?

        (also, statistics from cities with 250k+ people are meaningless when comparing to a city with 20,000 people.)

      64. wobblie
        Posted July 14, 2012 at 10:16 am | Permalink

        the only reason the township “manages just fine” is because they externalize the overhead cost onto the residents of Ypsi and Ann Arbor. And as they continue to refuse to pay the full cost of policing the township, more and more will come to look like west willow. It only looks fine to you Dan, because you don’t live there.

      65. alan2102
        Posted July 14, 2012 at 11:00 am | Permalink

        Dan: “My basis for that statement is the well quoted statistics comparing Ypsi and Ypsi Twps officer staffing levels. ”

        Comparison of staffing levels alone does not tell us, necessarily, what staffing level is NEEDED. And remember: you are the one who made an assertion about “need”. Comparison of staffing levels is a starting data point, but not the whole of the issue, and I never meant to imply otherwise (with the cited stats about staff per 1000 population, or per square mile).

        Dan: ” it cant afford the level of service that you seem to be advocating for.”

        Did you read what I wrote? I didn’t advocate a given level of service. I asked
        for your basis for the “much larger than needed” assertion. You have not provided one.

        Dan: “statistics from cities with 250k+ people are meaningless when comparing to a city with 20,000 people”

        Why?

        wobblie: “the only reason the township “manages just fine” is because they externalize the overhead cost onto the residents of Ypsi and Ann Arbor. And as they continue to refuse to pay the full cost of policing the township, more and more will come to look like west willow. ”

        Interesting. What evidence is there for this? The township contracts with the WC Sheriff for police services. Are you saying that they under-pay for them? That the “FULL cost” is not the same as what they are paying? Why/how so? Please be specific. Thanks.

      66. alan2102
        Posted July 14, 2012 at 11:15 am | Permalink

        You know, Dan, my GUT tells me that you’re probably right or half-right: that Ypsi could probably make do with fewer police officers, if they had sufficient creativity and commitment to economy, and if the community were sufficiently motivated and willing to support them. (The latter being in some doubt, I grant, judging from the idiotic and hysterical reactions in these parts to the idea that maybe the community itself could step up to the plate.) The problem is that you have presented insufficient EVIDENCE for same. Understand the difference? Between gut-level hunches — mine, yours, or anyone’s — and evidence-based rational evaluations? It is an important distinction.

      67. Dan
        Posted July 14, 2012 at 11:33 am | Permalink

        wobblie,

        actually, the township subsidizes your costs for the sheriff. If Ypsi Twp stopped contracting with the sheriff for policing, everyones county taxes in the county would go up.

        alan,

        yes, in fully understand the difference between a hunch or opinion and a certifiable fact. My point remains. My evidence is that the township has a lower level of service, and manages just fine. The next-door-neighbor townships statistics are more relevant than comparing to major US cities across the country, more than 10 times the size of Ypsi.

      68. Posted July 14, 2012 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

        It’s cool if you guys want to discuss police and fire staffing here, but I thought that I should mention that it’s unlikely, in the future, that anyone will find your discussion here. For that reason, I’d suggest moving it over to one of the past posts, where this was the main theme of discussion… You can, of course, do what you want, though.

      69. Posted July 14, 2012 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

        Goddammit, all of this arguing has obscured my AWESOME comment up thread. Stop it.
        :)

      70. alan2102
        Posted July 14, 2012 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

        Dan: “My evidence is that the township has a lower level of service, and manages just fine.”

        You mean, I’m sure, that the township has a lower level of STAFFING. What you are saying, I take it, is that the SERVICE level is just fine, in spite of the thinner staffing. And I believe that. And maybe the city of ypsi could provide comparable service with a smaller staff. I don’t know, and it seems neither do you. I have near-zero knowledge of what the city of ypsi’s challenges are with respect to policing and staff requirements. You’ve still presented no evidence for your assertion; you just continue to repeat it. And, as I said, I suspect that you are right. I have no evidence for my hunch, just like you, but it is still my hunch.

      71. alan2102
        Posted July 14, 2012 at 7:41 pm | Permalink

        Dan: “the township subsidizes your costs for the sheriff. If Ypsi Twp stopped contracting with the sheriff for policing, everyones county taxes in the county would go up.”

        Interesting. What is the evidence for this? Is there any?

        Do you mean that if Ypsi township stopped contracting with the WC Sheriff, AND the WC Sheriff dept continued to maintain the same level of staffing (and salaries) with no cutbacks, THEN county taxes would go up? Yes, of course that would be true. But irrelevant.

        The question is: is the provision of contract policing services to the township a net gainer, net loser, or net wash, for the county? Does anyone have any facts pertaining to this? Has anyone ever analyzed it? Or are we to spend forever in the pea soup of Dan’s hunches and suppositions (repeatedly presented as “evidence”)?

      72. alan2102
        Posted July 14, 2012 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

        The people with real fact-based answers to these questions would be — and should be — the WC Sheriff and the Ypsi Chief of Police. Answers to these questions should be readily available on the respective websites. The Chief of Police, for example — and this goes doubly for a municipality with deep budget problems, like ypsi — ought to have analyzed the situation and presented a reasonable case for the present level of staffing (assuming that such a case can be made) in public venues including but of course not limited to MM.com. It should not be the subject of so much speculation.

        Yes, there could be disagreement (perhaps SHOULD be disagreement) about some of the particulars, but those particulars ought to be discussed AS particulars, rather than all this vague impressionistic bullshit (including mine), and guesses or prejudices being advanced as “evidence”. And BTW it is not just Dan and me, but most of the participants, on both sides of the debate, on the threads from earlier this year. Almost all I ever saw was prejudice, and opinion unaccompanied by any verifiable fact. That includes both the anti-tax and the pro-tax people. The conversation was nearly 100% emotional. Not that emotions are bad, but their value is limited.

        The respective municipalities are largely responsible for the dearth of fact. They should be anxious to present the facts and set us all straight. The facts should be presented so prominently that anyone with even a slight interest could not fail to stumble over them — preferably on a PUBLIC FORUM for residents of WC and Ypsilanti, allowing for citizen participation and discussion. These municipalities are functioning as though this were 1980, the pre-internet days.

        And it is THIS, Dan (if you’re still reading), that the municipalities ought to be faulted for, primarily. You’re anxious to fault them for other things, without having in hand any real basis for your judgement. What you should fault them for is not providing you with that basis for judgement. You should fault them for not providing all of us with the facts from which a spirited and potentially productive public conversation, and interaction with our leaders, can issue, and for not providing the public forum (versus private turf like MM) for it.

        I think that all of this is called something… some word that I once saw in the dictionary. I think the word was “democracy”.

      73. alan2102
        Posted July 14, 2012 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

        “The conversation was nearly 100% emotional.”

        I take that back. Only about 80% emotional. There was fact and reason sprinkled in there. But none too much.

      74. Dan
        Posted July 14, 2012 at 10:20 pm | Permalink

        No alan. The county is required to pay for the sheriff. If the twp stopped contracting with the sheriff their staffing levels would go down. However, the deputies would be idle most of the time.

        There are quotes from the sheriff stating that is Ypsi twp stopped contracting with them the county wide taxes would go up. Ill try to find them tomorrow I but they’ve been posted here before.

      75. John Galt
        Posted July 14, 2012 at 10:50 pm | Permalink

        Who needs police when guns can be purchased? I can buy enough ammunition to kill everyone in the Township twice over with what I pay in taxes.

      76. alan2102
        Posted July 15, 2012 at 9:23 am | Permalink

        Dan: “The county is required to pay for the sheriff. If the twp stopped contracting with the sheriff their staffing levels would go down. However, the deputies would be idle most of the time.”

        What you mean, I take it, is that WC staffing levels would NOT go down, and hence the cost (for the then-idled but not eliminated staff) would have to be borne by everyone in the county. What you mean, I take it, is that WC’s costs would stay the same, while revenue (from the township) would fall.

        It would help greatly if you would write coherent sentences, selecting the words that actually mean what you intend them to mean.

        So, in other words, the WC Sheriff is an idiot, or perhaps he is bound by some policy forbidding him to adjust his staffing downward to reflect current reality, such as loss of a large contract for services. If the latter is the case, then THAT is obviously the problem; county-wide taxes would have to go up because of a stupid policy, NOT because the township is paying more than its share, as you (Dan) seem to be saying.

        Dan: “There are quotes from the sheriff stating that is Ypsi twp stopped contracting with them the county wide taxes would go up.”

        It is fine to present the good Sheriff’s opinion or conclusion, but it won’t be worth much without the facts upon which that opinion/conclusion is based. That would include such things as the details of stupid policies (mentioned above), if they exist. Do you understand the difference — opinions/conclusions vs. the facts upon which they are (presumably) based?

      77. Dan
        Posted July 15, 2012 at 11:31 am | Permalink

        alan, please stop with your nonsense. This is a comment section of a blog. Im not writing scientific dissertation.

        And for the 3rd time. No, IF the twp stopped contracting with the county, the number of deputies would go down, the administrative staff would not. The overhead and other costs incurred by the county sheriff would remain the same. That cost would be higher per citizen, if the township wasnt subsidizing the countys overhead costs.

        This has been discussed here before: http://markmaynard.com/2010/10/does-the-west-willow-shooting-prove-that-ypsi-township-police-are-understaffed/

      78. Posted July 15, 2012 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

        As we were celebrating Clementine’s birthday, I couldn’t go. But my friend Chris went. You can see his undercover report here. (He went in disguise.)

      79. alan2102
        Posted July 15, 2012 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

        Dan: “And for the 3rd time. No, IF the twp stopped contracting with the county, the number of deputies would go down, the administrative staff would not. ”

        No, not for the third time. That is the first time you said that. And it is a good point. Thanks for finally writing a coherent sentence that makes a significant factual point, relevant to our exchange.

        Dan: “The overhead and other costs incurred by the county sheriff would remain the same.”

        Interesting. That tends to support what wobblie was saying, to the effect that the township was/is not paying its fair share. It sounds — FROM WHAT YOU SAY, DAN — like the township has just been paying the marginal (payroll only) cost of additional deputies, without shouldering the true cost which includes infrastructure (physical facilities), dispatchers and office support personnel, whatever. Correct me if I am wrong on that. From what you say, it sounds like a sweet deal for the township, though not such a good deal for the county. If the township were to provide its own services, they would have to supply all that stuff, at great cost.

        Infrastructure costs cannot, of course, expand and contract quickly in the way that payroll for field staff can.

        Dan: “This has been discussed here before: http://markmaynard.com/2010/10/does-the-west-willow-shooting-prove-that-ypsi-township-police-are-understaffed

        Yes, “discussed”, after a fashion, i.e. not really. “Danced around” would be more like it. I must say, too, that EOS and some of the other township types — however stupid they may be — often come off less stupid than their detractors. Strangely enough.

        And Dan: I know you’re not writing a scientific dissertation. Judging from your posts here, I would be amazed if you were able to write a passing composition at high school level. I’m only asking for English at the level of a 12-year-old kid with circa 100 I.Q.

      80. Dan
        Posted July 15, 2012 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

        Lol. 3 times and you still don’t comprehend.

      81. alan2102
        Posted July 16, 2012 at 9:57 am | Permalink

        No reply, huh? Color me surprised.

      82. alan2102
        Posted July 16, 2012 at 10:01 am | Permalink

        It would still be nice if someone came forward with, or directed to, some real numbers. What exactly was the township paying for the services? Was it in fact just the additional-deputy payroll (without $$ for infrastructure)? That’s what it sounds like. But I’m just going by what Dan says, and his “research” doesn’t seem to extend beyond giving a link to an old and uninformative (prejudice-ridden, but no facts) MM thread. Maybe the township actually was paying something for (some) infrastructure. I still don’t know. Does anyone?

      83. Dan
        Posted July 16, 2012 at 10:35 am | Permalink

        alan,

        I dont have the patience to continue to explain a simple concept to someone that cant understand it after 3 or 4 descriptions. For christ’s sake, use your noggin. If I am saying that the township is subsidizing the overhead of the sheriff, then why do you take that to mean that the township only is paying for actual deputy payroll? wtf? And why would I use that as an argument that the county wide taxes for citizens would go up? That makes no sense.

        You clearly cant understand this conversation, as evidenced by your repeated misunderstanding that you thought I was saying deputy levels would not decrease if the township stopped contracting with the sheriff.

        Learn to read and comprehend something before you rant and rave about shit for 3 days and demanding scientific proof of shit you cant comprehend. good god.

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