Thank you, Donald Trump, for helping the Democrats take back Kentucky

Yesterday, at a rally for Kentucky Governor Matt Bevin in Lexington, Donald Trump said to the crowd, “You gotta vote, because, if you lose, it sends a really bad message.” He then went on to add, “You can’t let that happen to me.”

Well, they let it happen to him.

Continuing the trend we saw start during the 2018 midterms, when the Democrats took back the House of Representatives in a resounding rebuke of Trumpism, it’s being reported this evening that Matt Bevin was defeated in a surprise upset by his Democratic challenger, Andy Beshear.

It’s worth noting that, when Trump spoke yesterday in Kentucky, a state that he’d won by nearly 30 points in 2016, Bevin, according to the polls, had a 3 point lead over Beshear. Trump can argue, and I’m sure that he will, that this wasn’t about him, but his visit coincided with a nearly 4 point drop… in a state that he’d won by 30 POINTS in 2016!

Still, though, I wouldn’t put this loss entirely at Trump’s feet. Bevin was disliked intensely in the state by a great many people, who organized against him. But I think, at the very least, Bevin’s defeat speaks to the fact that candidates can no longer expect to just ride to victory on the President’s coattails, regardless of how good he might be at fundraising. Will Republican candidates stop inviting Trump to campaign with them, and stop trying to remake themselves in his image? Probably not. But, now that Scott Walker, Paul LePage, Kris Kobach and Matt Bevin have all met the same fate, you’ve got to think that some might start thinking twice about hitching their wagons to a man who some 50% of Americans feel strongly is both extremely corrupt and completely unfit for office… Donald Trump can yell all he wants about the rise of the “angry majority,” as he calls his supporters, but they don’t seem to be turning out in sufficient numbers to actually win races, even in red states.

While I did absolutely nothing to help Beshear win, it makes me proud to think that some of my family members in Lexington most likely did. It’s the town where I was born, and I love seeing headlines like this one, showing just how soundly Bevin was defeated there, even after Trump’s visit… Good work, Lexington… Now let’s organize to get Mitch McConnell out of office. [If you’d like to see McConnell voted out of office, consider joining me and donating to the campaign of Amy McGrath.]

update: True to form, Donald Trump is saying that Bevin’s loss isn’t his fault. He just tweeted out that his visit and support gave Bevin a 15 point boost in the final week of the election. Polling, however, as I noted above, showed Bevin in the lead by 3 points on October 24. If Trump were telling the truth about the 15 point bump, Bevin would have won tonight by a whopping 18 points.

Furthermore, the Trump 2020 campaign put out a statement this evening saying that, “The President just about dragged Gov. Matt Bevin across the finish line, helping him run stronger than expected in what turned into a very close race at the end.” Again, this is not even remotely true.

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128 Comments

  1. iRobert
    Posted November 5, 2019 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

    Democrats have also won majorities in the Virginia state senate and House of delegates.

  2. Posted November 5, 2019 at 9:33 pm | Permalink

    One of my favorite Bevin moments… That time he accused striking teachers of enabling pedophiles.

  3. Posted November 5, 2019 at 9:33 pm | Permalink

    Thanks, iRobert. I was about to check and see how we were doing in VA.

  4. dogmatic dolt
    Posted November 5, 2019 at 9:37 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, Does anyone think that the Democrat’s will thank the 3rd Party efforts of the Libertarians whose vote exceeded the Democrat’s margin of victory ? The Democrats needed everyone of those votes out of urban Lexington and Louisville to offset the Trump Republicans in rural areas.
    Do folks think this will be persuasive to those 20 Republican Senators the Impeachment Democrats need to swing?

    Looks to me like it is a harbinger of how close next years election will be–

  5. iRobert
    Posted November 5, 2019 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

    This one was especially satisfying.

    From The Hill:

    Democrat flips Va. state House seat after she tied in 2017 but lost random drawing

    https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/469160-democrat-flips-va-state-house-seat-after-she-tied-in-2017-but-lost

  6. Posted November 5, 2019 at 9:57 pm | Permalink

    From The Hill:

    Democrats win control of Virginia legislature

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/469164-democrats-flip-virginia-state-senate

  7. Posted November 5, 2019 at 9:58 pm | Permalink

    Speaking of what happened in Virginia. I found this story particularly heartwarming… a Muslim woman, inspired by Trump’s racism, not only ran, but won.

    Again, thank you, Donald Trump!

  8. Matt McDermott by proxy
    Posted November 5, 2019 at 10:01 pm | Permalink

    Under Trump, Democrats have now won Senate seats in Alabama and Arizona, Governor’s races in Kansas and Kentucky, and House races in Oklahoma and Utah.

  9. iRobert
    Posted November 5, 2019 at 10:02 pm | Permalink

    It appears the billion dollar bond in Ann Arbor has been approved.

  10. Anonymous
    Posted November 5, 2019 at 10:17 pm | Permalink

    “If the Republicans sweep these 3 red-state gubernatorial races … I think you’re going to have nothing but impeachment to thank,” @chucktodd says on #MTPDaily.

  11. Donald Trump speaks
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 6:49 am | Permalink

    #ElectionNight Won 5 out of 6 elections in Kentucky, including 5 great candidates that I spoke for and introduced last night. @MattBevin picked up at least 15 points in last days, but perhaps not enough (Fake News will blame Trump!). Winning in Mississippi Governor race!

  12. Jean Henry
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 7:39 am | Permalink

    Virginia IS for lovers. Finally. I’ve been waiting for it to live up to its branding which was established in… 1969 and held it’s course through endless GOP administrations.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_is_for_Lovers

  13. John Brown
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 7:40 am | Permalink

    “Cyclist who flipped off Trump wins county supervisor seat representing his golf club”

    This is satisfying on multiple levels. His brand is dead and the GOP is close behind if they don’t “string him up” asap.

  14. dogmatic dolt
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 8:21 am | Permalink

    Aloha, Here is a pretty good analysis of the Kentucky election by Krystal Ball, who is a Kentuckian

    https://rising.substack.com/p/the-working-class-revolt-comes-to?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=cta

  15. facebook stalker
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 10:10 am | Permalink

    Mark, I liked your social media headline better: “Matt Bevin was up by 3 points on October 24. Then Trump came to Kentucky and embraced him…. You’ll never guess what happened next!”

  16. Bob
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    Warlord is working the bizarro spin

  17. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    You can have your little victory. I’m not worried about that. Eyes on the prize, baby. Eyes on the prize.

  18. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 11:03 am | Permalink

    I do find it bizarre to try to edit reality using words. For example Bashear had a sizable lead until almost the end of the race. If you think that is bizarre of me well…I don’t know what to tell you. You’re wack.

  19. Jean Henry
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    HW has a conspiracy theory at the ready to explain any possible scenario that doesn’t go his way.
    But we are all crazy and deluded.

  20. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    What theory am I supposed to have here according to you? Sounds like you have a theory that what I said about Bashear having a lead is not true. An assumption; that is probably what I would say. You have a lot of assumptions. Too bad they are wrong!

  21. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    Instead of admit you or your buddies are wrong as shit you have an impulse to generally smear the ones who exposes your ignorance. Slayer of Unreason here ready to roll

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSbtjvHZvXA

  22. Jean Henry
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    I didn’t say it wasn’t true. I implied that you implied something was suspicious about the Dem win. Am I wrong about that?

    Do you believe the Kentucky election was on the up and up?

  23. Jean Henry
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    Oh I see, you are saying that there was in fact a Trump bump?

    Maybe. But everyone he campaigned for lost. And even if Trump gets re-elected if all the other elections go Blue, he’ll be stymied.

  24. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 11:53 am | Permalink

    With all that is about to hit about the many Obama admin crimes I don’t think that will be a problem. If you are reasonable I think you have to reckon with the Durham, Horowitz and Huber reports being just about in the can. Perhaps impeachment by the House then bombs away? Timing is everything.

  25. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 12:01 pm | Permalink

    Regarding what you said about everyone Trump campaigning for losing, where do you get that information? He didn’t speak of these candidates or introduce them or you don’t think they won or what? Come on now. Rationally, reasonably, factually what you are saying is bizarro world just like baynard’s article is. It perfectly illustrates my point about incorrect assumptions ruling you.

    Donald J. Trump

    Verified account

    @realDonaldTrump
    Follow Follow @realDonaldTrump
    More
    #ElectionNight Won 5 out of 6 elections in Kentucky, including 5 great candidates that I spoke for and introduced last night. @MattBevin picked up at least 15 points in last days, but perhaps not enough (Fake News will blame Trump!). Winning in Mississippi Governor race!

  26. Kit
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

    Here’s the big story: “Republicans get blown out in the suburbs”

  27. Jean Henry
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

    Republican Party Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel put a more specific number on the gap: 17 points, neatly in the middle of the range offered by Trump. Sure, polling had Bevin leading or showed an even race, but McDaniel and Trump had a nonpublic poll that conveniently showed just how powerful Trump is in electoral politics.

    “No one energizes our base like @realDonaldTrump,” McDaniel crowed.
    There’s a lot of this going around, these polls that show Trump doing far better than you might expect. There was that polling in North Carolina’s special elections, seen only by Trump, which showed how remarkably the Republicans running in those Republican districts beat the odds, with Trump’s help. And, of course, there are those polls showing Trump’s approval rating at 95 percent in the Republican Party, an approval rating unmatched in any public polls, but, I mean, it’s not as if the president is going to make this up, right?
    We take Trump’s word for it that the polls exist, if we wish.
    “Let me just tell you,” he told reporters over the weekend. “I have the real polls. I have the real polls.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/11/06/tuesday-delivered-something-trump-very-much-wants-avoid-weakness/

  28. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

    Trump’s internal polls were correct on the big night. MSM polls were about as wrong as they could get. Clinton all but assured victory with a >90% chance of becoming President. It’s not going to matter if the public awakens to what Obama et al did.

  29. dogmatic dolt
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, Now that the Democratic Party controls both houses of the Virginia legislature as well as the Governor, we should see as one of the first things next year the ratification of the Equal Rights Amendment. All these pos Trump appointed judges will have to deal with a new constitution.

    https://www.equalrightsamendment.org/

  30. Lynne
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

    DD, I am not so sure. Doesn’t congress have to extend the ratification window?

  31. Lynne
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

    Ok, looked it up! Congress does have to extend the ratification window. I guess that is a good reason to get out and vote. If this amendment passes, it will have huge implications in terms of civil rights. This is NOT the time for third party BS. Vote blue no matter who! But seriously, there simply is not a single person running in the Dem primary who is worse than Donald Trump.

  32. dogmatic dolt
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

    Aloha Lynne, First things first, Virginia Democrats have to have the guts to do the right thing. I think this what EOS was trying to get at yesterday with his baby killer comments. And Lynne since any Blue will do for you, let us who have a preference fight it out. Also Lynne it looks to me like it was those 3rd. party Libertarians who turned Kentucky’s Governors mansion blue. Historically 3rd. parties hurt incumbents more than challengers. Never would have been a Bill Clinton Presidency without Ross Peroit. Jimmy Carter would have had a 2nd. term if Anderson had not run. It is possible to learn things from history.

  33. EOS
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    DD,

    When the Governor of Virginia was asked if he supported abortion up until the time of birth, he responded that after birth a mother and her doctor should be the only ones to decide if the infant is allowed to survive. Now he has a majority in both houses and there will likely be expanded abortion “rights”. Countless deluded individuals are now more concerned about CO2 levels than human life.

    I may not like Trump, but I could never be so evil as to support the Democratic platform. I don’t vote for a personality. I vote for the policies that would likely be implemented.

    If the ERA passes and the prohibition against sex discrimination is expanded to cover a myriad of gender identifications, it will harm society. Girls should not be compelled to compete against biological males in school sports. Men shouldn’t be allowed to accept athletic scholarships for women’s sports. People shouldn’t be fired for refusing to re-enforce gender mis-identities by using a pronoun suitable to the biological reality.

    What we need is to expand the gender role stereotypes and allow people to feel free to express their God-given attributes, not to force those who don’t fit into a narrow mold to identify as another “gender”.

  34. Lynne
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    Yes, that is how it works with third parties, DD. As you can imagine, I have absolutely NO problems when those who would otherwise vote Republican choose to vote third party. I have even been known to encourage it although when those same people whine when a Democrat gets elected, it is difficult for me to not to point out to them that votes matter and that voting third party is essentially a vote for whoever wins in our system

  35. dogmatic dolt
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

    Aloha Lynne, I respectfully disagree. I believe my vote maters to me. I am glad you are able to discern how people vote and what would have happened if they did not vote the way they did. I lack the divination skills you seem to possess, all I can do is try to learn from history.

  36. Sad
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 7:44 pm | Permalink

    Mayor Pete is tying Warren in Iowa.

    Maybe EOS is right and there is a God.

  37. Lynne
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 8:39 pm | Permalink

    Yes, DD. White men have the luxury of being ok no matter who wins so they don’t personally get harmed by third party votes. I will not say that alternate parties don’t matter but they tend to represent the fringes and there tend to be more voters in the middle. A winning strategy is to simply ignore the fringes and focus on the middle. They also are not in a position to win. That is why I sometimes donate money to right-wing alternate parties when I can figure out how to do it anonymously. They can’t win and can only hurt the more center-right GOP, hopefully to the point where their candidate loses. So no risk and only potential gain.

  38. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 8:49 pm | Permalink

    “White men have the luxury of being ok no matter who wins so they don’t personally get harmed by third party votes.” – Lynne

  39. iRobert
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

    Lynne: “White men have the luxury of being ok no matter who wins so they don’t personally get harmed by third party votes.“

    I’m sorry Lynne, but are you under the impression that there are no “white” men who are poor, or in any way disabled, or in any way disenfranchized?

    I can assure you there are tens of millions in this country who fall into these categories.

  40. Jean Henry
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

    EOS– I assure you that murder will still be illegal after ERA is passed. There will also still be separate men’s and women’s sport teams.

    No one is forced into any gender mold. That’s not why people experience gender dysmorphia. Butch women are not Trans nor are femme men. There is a spectrum of gender expression that includes transgender people. There is plenty of evidence that Transgender people have existed throughout the ages and in all cultures. People should have autonomy over their own bodies. It’s really none of your business. And it’s certainly not the governments business. Any true conservative would understand that.

    I’m glad the prospect of ERA has you scared. I marched with my mom in ERA marches when I was a kid. It’s been a long absurd wait.

    Here is the wording: “Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State on account of sex.”

    Not too scary really. Nowhere does it say men and women are the same. It outlaws sex discrimination. How could any sane person object? It’s common sense.

  41. dogmatic dolt
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 10:47 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, You have to give people a reason to come out in vote. Your constant desire to shame people is the most counter productive strategy you could employ. I do hope that it makes you feel good every time you deploy it. The real power lies in convincing people to come out and vote, for example
    “Dems win when we vote in large numbers. The last gubernatorial election in Kentucky, just over 950k voted. Last night 1.4 million voted. The last Virginia state elections, 29% voter participation. Last night? 42%.”
    Get your people out. If you can convince people to vote your way by shaming, go for it, I guess. I just don’t think it is a very effective strategy. I prefer to recognize what caused failures in the past and try not to repeat them, you know that whole history thing.
    And, Lynne, there is nothing “center-right” about the GOP. All the “center” Republicans became Democrats long ago.

  42. Jean Henry
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 11:36 pm | Permalink

    “You have to give people a reason to come out in vote. Your constant desire to shame people is the most counter productive strategy you could employ. I do hope that it makes you feel good every time you deploy it.” — DD

    Dude, I seriously hope you take your own advice. There is no one on this blog more inclined to shame and badger and generally make everything seem hopeless than you. It’s even clear that righteousness offers you some satisfaction. Just read those lines you wrote to yourself each time before you post please.

  43. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 6, 2019 at 11:39 pm | Permalink

    Jean has a point.

  44. Sad
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 4:35 am | Permalink

    I don’t think people should be ashamed that they support Warren or Sanders, or even Biden ( well maybe people should be a little ashamed if they supported Biden).

    Whenever you want to come over to Major Pete is fine.

  45. EOS
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 7:35 am | Permalink

    @JH,

    Yes there will still be women’s sports teams where biological men will be allowed to compete and set new records. Currently 17 states allow transgender high school athletes to compete without restrictions. Can it get more absurd or disadvantageous to biological females ?

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/connecticut-transgender-athletes-face-federal-discrimination-complaint-from-females-over-title-ix-violations/

  46. dogmatic dolt
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 7:40 am | Permalink

    Aloha, seems like the reaction to me proves my point about voter shaming. I’ll try to stop participating in that activity. Going to go do some phone calling for Tulsi, got to help get the vote out in New Hampshire.

  47. EOS
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 7:41 am | Permalink

    @JH,

    And in in these times of Orwellian Newspeak, putting a newborn on a counter in an exam room and not providing blankets, food or water, is not defined as murder. Yet no one is fooled, many just distract themselves and pretend it doesn’t matter.

  48. Jean Henry
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 7:57 am | Permalink

    No EOS, putting a newborn on a counter in an exam room and not providing blankets, food or water is still murder. Letting a mortally ill infant die with palliative care and without torturous intervention is humane. You are the beast in this equation.

    Denying an entire class of people equal rights, because you fear unfair competition in women’s sports is really fucked up. I’m sure they will work it out. Again you are on the wrong and inhumane and immoral side of history.

  49. Jean Henry
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 8:05 am | Permalink

    EOS– Renee Richards played in the Women’s US Open when I was a child. No one died because it was unfair. Life has gone on. 26 TG and non-binary people were murdered in 2018. 22 so far this year.

  50. EOS
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    @JH,

    OK, so its clear that you are fine that women should be forced to compete with men and be trained at an early age to accept defeat at the hands of biological men. Some feminist you are.

    Funny how you would bring up Renee Richards. He regretted his sex change operation, had the breast augmentation surgically removed, and discourages others from following in his footsteps. Also, the surgeon who pioneered sex change operations is now strongly against them. https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/03/08/sex-reassignment-doesnt-work-evidence/

    48 transgendered persons were murdered in the last two years. How many cis-gendered persons were murdered in the same period?

  51. Jean Henry
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    Wrong EOS.
    Richards does not regret transitioning. She had implants removed for health reasons. She has expressed ambivalence about TG women competing equally with bio women. And there’s a lot more to that. She did not dominate women’s tennis after transitioning. One loses the muscle mass and weight that confers advantage.

    https://slate.com/culture/2012/10/jewish-jocks-and-renee-richards-the-life-of-the-transsexual-tennis-legend.html

    Where do you get your information from? It’s fraudulent.

  52. Lynne
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    Re: poor white men. My apologies. My point was that those with privilege are not as harmed by GOP policies as those without. White men tend to have more privilege than others but yes, I understand the concept of intersectionality. There are poor white men. There are gay white men. There are non-Christian white men. There are immigrants who are white men. Still, when someone with privilege votes third party, they are doing so without risk of feeling too much pain regardless of how the election turns out.

    I don’t mind shaming people for voting third party. They *should* be ashamed. But I also work on getting out the vote. I am going to guess DD that is partly why the candidates i support have a chance of winning the primary.

  53. EOS
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    https://thefederalist.com/2014/11/11/trouble-in-transtopia-murmurs-of-sex-change-regret/

    65% regret the operation. They feel like they don’t fit in with their assigned biological sex, so they have an operation which makes them unable to fit in with any group. Better option would have been to obtain psychological counseling before body altering surgeries.

    Richards and Bobby Riggs competed as older men past their peak. Not the same as teens.

  54. Lynne
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 11:13 am | Permalink

    Seems to me like the whole sports thing is a pretty small problem when compared to the much larger problem of half of our citizens being treated as second class. I am sure we will be able to work out the sports team issues fairly.

  55. EOS
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 11:55 am | Permalink

    51% of the population are females who deserve an opportunity to compete with each other fairly, rather than letting .1% of the population deny them a right to participate in sports with a chance to excel. Could easily be remedied by defining gender as biologically determined at birth.

  56. Jean Henry
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    Here is the link cited in that article. It is about all cosmetic surgery, not sexual reassignment surgeries which are much more closely vetted. I’m actually surprised the federalist papers would be THAT disingenuous.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2640543/Two-thirds-Britons-REGRET-having-cosmetic-surgery.html

    It takes ten seconds to find the bad think in your articles confirming your fucked up bias.
    Try again, EOS. Try harder.

  57. Jean Henry
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

    People who receive sexual re-assignment surgeries and hormones already undergo intensive psychological evaluation, EOS.

  58. Jean Henry
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

    Richards commuted at 24 as a female.

  59. Jean Henry
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

    *competed

  60. Lynne
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

    EOS, except that gender is NOT biologically determined at birth. However, sports participation can perhaps be determined by some different characteristics than gender. Perhaps a testosterone test? I mean, it seems to me that a boy who is taking that kind of hormone therapy should perhaps compete with the boys? And maybe girls who produce a lot of testosterone should too regardless of their assigned gender at birth? I don’t really know but as I said, it doesn’t seem like an insurmountable problem.

  61. Jean Henry
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    Detransitioning happens in less than 1% of cases. The reasons are complex and some of it has to do with cultural bias and stigma. Other people go in and out of living as TG people, again because of social pressures. This is consistent with many TG people I know, especially older ones who feel it’s not worth the cost to live openly. That does not mean they are no longer TG; they are just not open about it. Coming out of the closet is not always a single step. We are still learning how to do this well and it seems some sexual reassignment Doctors wrongly felt transitioning quickly was best. More and more and the gender spectrum is accepted, people have the choose to not undergo sexual re-assignment surgery. They take it step by step and stop where they feel most comfortable. This is a private journey and set of decisions that they make with their Doctors and they deserve their bodily autonomy and privacy.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detransition

  62. EOS
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

    Lynne,

    The gender of every individual is determined at birth. If your cells have a Y chromosome, you are a male. If you have any number of X chromosomes, but no Y, you are a female. It’s simple biology.

    Renee Richards had surgery in 1975 at age 41. In his own words, “If I had played [women’s tennis] in my 20s, I would have won Wimbledon,” she says. At 40, though? “I wasn’t going to be the best, and I knew that.” (What if she had won Wimbledon? Richards laughs. “I would have quit. That wouldn’t have been good for anyone. Not me and not women’s tennis.”)

    I saw a comic the other day where a motorcyclist felt that they were actually a bicyclist and won the Tour de France in a record-breaking time. It really is that absurd.

  63. dogmatic dolt
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, Done doing phone banking for the day. I had a cousin from back on the farm. Monday through Friday it went by George. On the weekend Georgette. It was “intersex” (a term I’ve just learned to use, along with my attempt to use gender neutral pro-nouns.) It was washed away and drowned in the great Embrass River flood back in 1955, while attempting to save the cows. I never met it, but by all accounts it was accepted by the community. Attended mass as a woman on Sundays, was a man in the field the rest of the week. Most everyone just called it George. Small community, played with all the other kids growing up. The consequences of the commodification of sports seems to be what is most on your minds. EOS just turn your sports into a religion and you can discriminate anyway you like.
    Nearly 2% of the population is intersex, and deserves the same rights as everyone else.

    “The first suggestion to replace the term ‘hermaphrodite’ with ‘intersex’ came from British specialist Cawadias in the 1940s. The population of intersex depends on which definition is used. According to the ISNA definition above, 1 percent of live births exhibit some degree of sexual ambiguity. Between 0.1% and 0.2% of live births are ambiguous enough to become the subject of specialist medical attention, including surgery to assign them to a given sex category (i.e., male or female). According to Fausto-Sterling’s definition of intersex, on the other hand, 1.7 percent of human births are intersex.”

    I suspect with all the advances in pre-natal care and post partum care etc, many more intersex individuals survive than ever before, (not even going to the hormonal needs necessary for gender specificity). Of course in EOS’s world these people just don’t exist.

  64. EOS
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

    Genetic mutations or exposure to hormones during development can sometimes cause ambiguous genitalia. But sex can be determined by looking at the chromosomes in any cell in the body. The person is either male or female. There is no intersex in the human species.

  65. dogmatic dolt
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, just came across this little tidbit, another woman I would gladly have voted for.

    November 7, 1916 – In the congressional elections, Jeannette Rankin became the first woman elected to the United States House of Representatives.

    She was one of 50 House members who opposed the declaration of war on Germany in 1917. In 1941, she was the only member of Congress to vote against declaring war on Japan following the attack on Pearl Harbor.

    The only member of Congress to vote against US entry into WWI and WWII, she commented, “I wish I’d been nastier.”

    A suffragist during the Progressive Era, Rankin organized and lobbied for legislation enfranchising women in several states including Montana, New York, and North Dakota. While in Congress, she introduced legislation that eventually became the 19th Constitutional Amendment, granting unrestricted voting rights to women nationwide.

  66. Lynne
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

    EOS, I think you are confusing gender and sex. Not the same thing at all.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_gender_distinction

  67. Jean Henry
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 8:49 pm | Permalink

    Thanks, Lynne.

  68. Jean Henry
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

    Wrong again EOS. Man you are on a roll.

    “Intersex people are individuals born with any of several variations in sex characteristics including chromosomes, gonads, sex hormones, or genitals that, according to the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights, “do not fit the typical definitions for male or female bodies”.[1][2] Such variations may involve genital ambiguity and combinations of chromosomal genotype and sexual phenotype other than XY-male and XX-female.[3][4]”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

  69. stupid hick
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

    I believe you should just play the hand you’re dealt. That said, if a majority of people who “transition” regret it so what? What does that have to do with anyone else’s personal freedom to do as they choose? If I were a woman I would refuse to participate in women’s sports. I would insist on competing against everyone, man or woman. But if a woman only wants to compete against other women, in competitions restricted to women, why not let her do it? In my opinion, any woman who complains it’s not fair to have to compete against transitioned women is weak. Poor baby. She can compete in competitions restricted to “born women” if she wants to, if there are any, and nobody should complain. But in my opinion anyone that would hold a competition restricted to “born women” is weak, probably intolerant, and a hater of freedom. But if they want to do it, I would be ok with it because I love freedom.

  70. stupid hick
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

    DD, if I didn’t believe you are well-meaning, I might think your use of the pronoun “it” was an insult. “They” is a term polite society uses for people of unknown or ambiguous gender. In my opinion “it” has a connotation that the speaker is referring to an inanimate object, or an entity that is not human. That is my reading of the norms of polite society, but if you disagree I still accept you.

  71. Jean Henry
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

    “I believe you should just play the hand you’re dealt.”– SH

    Transitioning IS playing the hand they were dealt.

  72. Jean Henry
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 10:28 pm | Permalink

    The majority of people who transition do not regret it. It’s more like 1%.

  73. Jean Henry
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 10:32 pm | Permalink

    DD– Good story but TG people are not all intersex. That’s it’s own thing (wikilink in comment above) and ‘it’ is a bizarre substitute for a pronoun. Keep learning.

  74. stupid hick
    Posted November 7, 2019 at 10:46 pm | Permalink

    “Transitioning IS playing the hand they were dealt.”

    And that’s fine with me.

  75. Lynne
    Posted November 8, 2019 at 11:15 am | Permalink

    SH I agree that ‘it’ has the meaning you mention but have to admit that it frustrates me. Mostly because I have a problem with using ‘they’ in the singular. Oh well. Small thing and I will continue to respectfully use ‘they’

  76. EOS
    Posted November 8, 2019 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

    https://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speaks/position-statements/gender-ideology-harms-children

  77. Lynne
    Posted November 8, 2019 at 6:00 pm | Permalink

    EOS, that group is a recognized hate group.

    https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/american-college-pediatricians

  78. EOS
    Posted November 8, 2019 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

    Recognized as such by the SPLC. The SPLC isn’t a good reference. Basically, any conservative Christian group is a hate group.

    Lynne, try to understand that persons who present an alternative perspective, backed up by science, reason and facts, are not motivated by hate and can not be discredited by merely labeling them as haters. Not everyone has been indoctrinated with your belief system.

  79. Jean Henry
    Posted November 9, 2019 at 1:13 am | Permalink

    ACP is a political organization that practices pseudo-science. (That’s being generous) It has 200 members. It exists to spread anti-LGBTQ nonsense not to further the health and well being of children.

    https://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2016/03/28/speaking-of-bad-science-never-trust-the-american-college-of-pediatricians

  80. Jean Henry
    Posted November 9, 2019 at 1:15 am | Permalink

    There are issues with the SPLC but not as many as there are with the ACP. And this is simply untrue, EOS. Stop lying. “any conservative Christian group is a hate group [for the SPLC].”

  81. Jean Henry
    Posted November 9, 2019 at 1:20 am | Permalink

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-religious-rights-favorite-medical-association-is-a-hate-group

  82. EOS
    Posted November 9, 2019 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

    Focus on the Family and Family Research Council are also labeled as hate groups by the SPLC. Neither is the least bit hateful. They just adhere to the moral standards that have been in existence for thousands of years. This group of doctors didn ‘t make the 180 degree change that some in the medical profession did in the. 80s. It was political not based on any new medical evidence.

  83. Jean Henry
    Posted November 9, 2019 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

    Incorrect again, EOS. Lots of medical evidence. Lots of historical evidence. Lots of successful transitions. Your bigotry is the threat. Not TG people. Get over yourself.

    Here’s some rocket science news for you: The path of scientific learning is generally progressive not regressive. It’s not a sound argument to say, but scientists for centuries thought otherwise. They also thought bleeding was effective treatment and the the sun orbits around the earth at one point.

  84. EOS
    Posted November 9, 2019 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

    Absolutely no medical evidence that supports altering a child’s apparent sex prior to their reaching an age where their intellectual reasoning has matured. Giving prepubescent children hormone blocking drugs is a horrific practice. Wanting to stop this child abuse is not bigotry. Jean, it’s wrong to destroy a child’s future for political purposes.

  85. Jean Henry
    Posted November 10, 2019 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    How much experience do you have with children who experience gender dysmorphia EOS? How much do you actually know about the process by which any steps toward transition are taken? How much do you know about the reversibility of hormone treatment?

    Thought so.

  86. EOS
    Posted November 10, 2019 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    I think everybody knows someone who had some version of gender dysmorphia. Typically was a little tomboy who was better at sports than the boys. Or boys who had an aversion to rough play and whose attachment and play with action figures was a little too soft and nurturing. Or they may have preferred to help Mom in the kitchen than Dad in the garage.

    Difference is that back in the day, kids were allowed to exhibit non-conforming behaviors. No one thought it had any connection with a same sex attraction or any need for body disfiguring surgeries. There wasn’t a cacophony of adults suggesting they should consider talking to a psychiatrist about it. Kids naturally grew out of it as they hit puberty because no one put the thought of other options in their head. If kids were missing an adult in their family who could model an appropriate gender role, they would look to respected teachers or other adults in their community.

    Humans are born male or female and they learn the appropriate gender roles from their environment. If a parent wants to allow their 7 year old son to wear dresses and bows in their hair and be called a girl’s name, then the child should go into foster care while the adult gets psychological help.

  87. Anonymous
    Posted November 11, 2019 at 6:53 am | Permalink

    Tomboy to foster care is a big leap, no?

  88. Jean Henry
    Posted November 11, 2019 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    EOS– you really don’t get it. You need to start listening to TG stories and stop lecturing. LGBTQ activists accept and support a full range of sexual and gender expression without judgment. There is still a portion of the population who experience gender dysmorphia and for whom those other options are not enough.

    Bruce Jenner was not exactly feminine in his hobbies and pursuits was he? Guess what, neither is Caitlyn Jenner. She still likes fast cars and golfing. The are TG people with a full range of interests and sexual attractions. Being TG is its own thing with a much wider range of variation and expression than your dogma can also for. Stop lecturing and start listening. Show some humility to experiences you can not possibly .fully understand

  89. Jean Henry
    Posted November 11, 2019 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    “If a parent wants to allow their 7 year old son to wear dresses and bows in their hair and be called a girl’s name, then the child should go into foster care while the adult gets psychological help.”

    Why do you hate children so, EOS? We all want to know.

  90. EOS
    Posted November 11, 2019 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    I don’t get it, nor will I ever. People should accept their gender as determined by their sex at birth. Bruce Jenner still likes women too. He’s just attention seeking.

    You can claim Oceania is at war with Eurasia and has always been at war with Eurasia, but many of us remember when we were at war with Eastasia.

    Most LGBTQ activists do not accept anyone who goes back to presenting as a mentally healthy heterosexual. Many LGBTQ activists do not support TG persons who they feel are putting their agenda at risk. Many lesbians hate gay men and vice versa. Few support a full range of sexual and gender expression without judgment. Don’t lie. Don’t be evil.

    Why do you hate children? Why can’t you support preventing adults from imposing chemically induced secondary sex characteristic changes on minors? Don’t you realize that these exogenous hormones are carcinogenic?

  91. Sad
    Posted November 11, 2019 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    EOS seems very interested in alternative lifestyles and cultures.

    Down to community infighting.

    Interesting.

  92. Jean Henry
    Posted November 11, 2019 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

    EOS– hs yet to acknowledge that everyone of her points on this topi thus far have been proven false or falsified.

    PS as Lynne said before, gender and biological sex and sexuality are all different thins, so Kaitlyn Jenner’s sexuality has zero bearing on her gender. Seriously, you need to go towards your aversion here and examine it more closely. For someone who regularly dismisses psychiatry and the very idea of mental illness being a pathology, you are leaning hard on it to deride and degrade people with experiences and circumstances you don’t understand.

  93. Posted November 11, 2019 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

    From NPR:

    Skeptics Urge Bevin To Show Proof Of Fraud Claims, Warning Of Corrosive Effects

    https://www.npr.org/2019/11/10/777300611/skeptics-urge-bevin-to-show-proof-of-fraud-claims-warning-of-corrosive-effects

  94. EOS
    Posted November 12, 2019 at 7:51 am | Permalink

    Get a grip. Just because you and Lynne post your opinions it does not follow that anything I wrote has been proven false. You have groups of experts who agree with your point of view and I have groups of experts who agree with mine. Unlike you, I have not derided or degraded anyone. And I haven’t lied.

    Show me your medical evidence. What scientific test determines whether or not a small child should receive hormones of the opposite sex? Typically its the parents that push this on a child and one has to wonder what the motivation is. Have you read the descriptions of the angst of adults whose parents attempted to change their sex? Have you read the personal regrets of adults who thought changing their sex might be the answer to their problems?

    A majority of gay and lesbian persons don’t even feel comfortable with bisexuals. What type of person would want a sexual relationship with a man who amputated his penis? Or a woman with a prosthetic penis that is inflated? Where do these persons fit in after gender changing operations? Do they feel affirmed by hooking up with another dysphoric person who had the opposite surgery? Hardly.

    There is no doubt there are a number of individuals who don’t feel comfortable presenting as the sex/gender they were born as. Where is the evidence that surgery resolves this conflict rather than talk therapy to explore why they feel that way?

  95. EOS
    Posted November 12, 2019 at 7:58 am | Permalink

    http://sexchangeregret.com/

  96. Jean Henry
    Posted November 12, 2019 at 8:49 am | Permalink

    Well EOS, that is fascinating. It turns out that your narrative (which is backed by precisely one guy who has decided to minister to TG people who regret transitioning and yet has very few examples other than himself) is repeated endlessly on almost every far right wing new service but it is not validated anywhere else. Mr Heyer clearly has a lot of personal problems. I have no doubt he’s making a lot of money from offering his ministry and his story to the right wing media. What I don’t see are numbers of actual people he is treating. I see very little documentation at all and what you have provided has been proven fraudulent within 5 minutes.

    You clearly are invested in this narrative. I’m sure if it’s accurate we will hear many of these stories because a TG person detransitioning is great click bait. Unfortunately we have statistics on the number of surgeries and it’s less than 1%, and some of those include breast implant removal for health reasons, so….

  97. Jean Henry
    Posted November 12, 2019 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    I’m sure that some very few people do regret transitioning. Reading some accounts just now, its clear many experience shame or have other major psychological issues or simply ‘find God’ within a religion that will not accept them as a TG person. And yet, you, EOS, would use the existence of these few individuals to justify maligning and limiting many others who are in fact happy with their transitions and living comfortably in their new genders. (I know many of these people and they could not be more grounded.) In fact liberalism around gender identity and sexuality allows people a broad range of expression, exactly what you pointed to in your example of a supposedly less painful time when people could be who they are. For some sick political and religious reason you want to limit the free expression and medical decisions of other people. You are not offering anyone a way to peace. Your religion only offers suffering to those who do not conform to your beliefs/ideology/dogma. You might as well be a stalinist communist. Whats’ the difference really? It’s our way or the highway. What is the social and personal cost of demanding everyone march in the same direction?

    PS–This detransitioning movement sounds a lot like gay conversion therapy. And it has similar large funders of strong ideological bent and yet so little actual documentation.

  98. Anonymous
    Posted November 12, 2019 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    It’s interesting to note that in the area of sexual mores and taboos, those that are most vocal about upholding these “norms” are frequently the ones that are most ashamed that they have broken them. We have Larry “wide stance” Craig, David “DC madam” Vitter, McKrae “conversion” Game, and Joshua “purity” Harris, among others. Utah is the #1 state for online pornography.

    I can’t say if this applies to EOS, but I’ve noticed that people here have been inconsistent in assigning an appropriate gender to this particular person.

  99. EOS
    Posted November 12, 2019 at 10:00 am | Permalink

    @ Anonymous,

    Jean, who calls herself a feminist, refers to me with feminine pronouns as a offense.

    https://news.sky.com/story/hundreds-of-young-trans-people-seeking-help-to-return-to-original-sex-11827740

  100. EOS
    Posted November 12, 2019 at 10:03 am | Permalink

    https://www.louderwithcrowder.com/transgenders-detransitioning-on-the-rise-and-the-lgbtq-community-isnt-helping/

  101. EOS
    Posted November 12, 2019 at 10:06 am | Permalink

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/02/22/my-battle-with-the-transgender-thoughtpolice/

  102. EOS
    Posted November 12, 2019 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    https://www.kqed.org/futureofyou/441784/the-controversial-research-on-desistance-in-transgender-youth

  103. Lynne
    Posted November 12, 2019 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    All I know is that every transgendered person I know either had a supportive family OR they got really messed up because of EOS like attitudes. Seriously? Remove kids to foster care for what some consider inappropriate gender displays? That is whacked and would do sooooo much harm. Maybe parents who can’t be supportive should be required to go to some sort of compassion training so they can stop abusing their children by forcing them to adapt to a gender they don’t have?

  104. Jean Henry
    Posted November 12, 2019 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    EOS– I am a feminist and I have no idea what your gender is. Why would you assume I do and so to cause offense by mis-gendering you. There’s statistically about a 3% higher likelihood you would be a woman. From now on I will refer to your as the gender neutral they/their so as not to cause undue offense. You are anonymous and so really I can’t verify anything you say about yourself as true. Maybe you should submit to a Testosterone Test if you want me to use male pronouns. Ah but even those are unreliable as indicators of gender… such a conundrum. https://the1a.org/shows/2019-11-11/the-evolution-of-thought-on-testosterone-and-masculinity

    I’ll refrain from DD’s use od ‘it’ unless you suggest it’s your preferred pronoun EOS. I could swing with that.

  105. EOS
    Posted November 12, 2019 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    I did not suggest foster care (or temporary alternative parents) for kids who displayed gender non-conforming behaviors. I suggested separating the kid from a parent who would give the kid drugs or force them to present as the wrong sex. That’s child abuse. The parent is the one who needs counseling. The kid is only responding to environmental influences and needs an opportunity to mature unscathed by an adult agenda. Let the girl be a tomboy without suggesting that she is the wrong sex.

  106. Jean Henry
    Posted November 12, 2019 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

    EOS– No one ever has suggested that tomboys have gender dysmorphia. They are not the same thing. Often times people with gender dysmorphia feel so ashamed that they go out of their way to present as uber gender conforming– see Bruce Jenner winning the Olympic decathlon.

    And you explicitly said those children with gender dysmorphia should go into foster care while their parents get treatment. That will go well for them. You are heartless. Your religious belief system is punitive, vicious and cruel.

  107. Sad
    Posted November 12, 2019 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

    Mayor Pete is finally polling in first place in Iowa.

    Winning.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/470079-poll-buttigieg-leads-democratic-field-in-iowa

  108. Lynne
    Posted November 12, 2019 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

    EOS, Are we talking about parents forcing their kids to display a gender they don’t identify with? I am pretty sure that almost never happens

    Sad, congrats. your hard work is paying off.

  109. EOS
    Posted November 12, 2019 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    Lynne,

    No. I’m talking about parents who would take steps to change the sex of their prepubescent children rather than allow them to develop naturally until they are adults and can make their own choices.

  110. Jean Henry
    Posted November 12, 2019 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

    Lynne– Actually people like Eos force their kids into expressing the gender assigned at birth all the time.

    Doctors do not allow parents to force gender on children via medical intervention, EOS. The child must demonstrate extraordinary gender dysphoria. Quite obviously it’s a very difficult decision and, as you know, hospitals are lawsuit averse.

    On the other hand, children who are intersex until recently were routinely ‘assigned’ a biological sex soon after birth without the child’s cognizance or choice. It doesn’t work out well when that child’s gender does not conform to the prescribed biological sex. They experience… you guessed it… gender dysphoria. That kind of medical overreach has been protested by the same people advocated for TG rights.

  111. Jean Henry
    Posted November 12, 2019 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

    Its fascinating to see Eos justify their inhumanity by suggesting others are being inhumane, especially in suggesting ways they are inhumane that would be quite obviously illegal. They do it all the time. Really interesting pathology.

  112. EOS
    Posted November 12, 2019 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

    Jean,

    Gender roles are somewhat fluid. Children learn them from parental modeling. If a child does not learn the proper gender identity it is the fault of the parents. Sometimes it is influenced by traumatic experiences. The parents groom their “transgender” children and then sign medical consent. Liability is not a concern under these conditions.

    A child is born either male or female and it is the responsibility of the parents to love and nurture and to develop the child’s innate talents and abilities to their fullest capacities.
    To raise a child as if they were a different sex than what they were at birth is to condemn the individual to life as an outcast.

    Sex is defined at birth based on the presence or absence of a Y chromosome. Intersex is a genetic anomaly of the adrenals or in utero exposure to elevated hormone levels of the opposite sex.

    Transgendered persons are rarely “intersex”.

  113. Lynne
    Posted November 12, 2019 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

    Some of my best friends have a transgendered son. They have been supportive by allowing the teen to take some hormone therapy, legally prescribed by an ethical doctor who took steps to ensure this was really what the boy wanted. His parents also legally changed his name for him. No one is even suggesting surgical options at this point as he is pretty close to being a legal adult who can make such choices on his own. I don’t consider any of that child abuse! Quite the opposite. Their support of their son is beautiful and healthy. He is a very well adjusted kid.

    FWIW, his mother has modeled some pretty traditional gender roles as has his father. They encouraged “girly” things but as soon as their son was old enough to talk, he let them know that he did not like girly things. He told me when he was 8 years old that he was a boy! LOL, I remember the conversation well.

    Him: I am a boy
    Me: You mean like a tomboy?
    Him: No, a real boy!
    Me: Oh! Like Pinnochio!
    Me and Him: Yeah! HAHAHAHAHAHA
    Me: Well, you better not tell any lies then :)

  114. EOS
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 5:51 am | Permalink

    @Lynne,

    So mom modeled a traditional gender role and the parents encouraged “girly things”. But the kid didn’t like “girly things”, so she must be a boy? How sad. Did you even consider telling an 8 year old child how great it was to be a girl and how you thought she was an awesome girl? Did you consider helping her to see that there are lots of great women who are strong and accomplished who never liked “girly things”? If not, can you now see how you were a part of the environmental milieu that pushed her towards rejecting her gender?

  115. Sad
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 7:17 am | Permalink

    Mayor Pete likes girly things and boy things and he is very manly.

    Win win.

  116. iRobert
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 8:13 am | Permalink

    My youngest is really into the Transformers. Identifies as a Camero. We’re spending the college savings on the operation.

  117. Lynne
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 9:12 am | Permalink

    EOS, I have never modeled anything than it is awesome to be female or male because both are good things. Trust me. No one pushed this boy towards that gender. They just didn’t abuse him by telling him that there was something wrong with his feelings that he was a boy. I honestly do not know how you go about your day with such hate in your heart. No wonder you can’t see Focus on the Family for the hate group that they are. It must just be normal for you. How very sad.

  118. EOS
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    No. It is not normal to raise a daughter as a male. There’s no hate involved in correcting an 8 year old’s misconceptions. The girl will suffer as a result of her parent’s misguided actions. In a normal home, the 8 year olds don’t set the agenda.

  119. Lynne
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

    Well EOS, he didn’t transition until he was 14 and lived as a girl until that time. I think you are just ignorant about what is a healthy relationship with gender. There was no allowing an 8-year-old to call the shots.

  120. EOS
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    Then why didn’t you correct the 8 year old?

  121. Lynne
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 1:17 pm | Permalink

    Why should I? He knows how he feels better than I do and there is nothing wrong with identifying as male. Besides, I am not really into abusing children that way and I think forcing a person to display gender traits they don’t feel is abuse.

  122. Jean Henry
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    “Transgendered persons are rarely “intersex”.” — yes I said as much much much earlier in this thread when someone was unclear on the difference. My mention in response to you made the distinction clear. You missed my point entirely. Assigning a gender to intersex children and making surgical alterations is medical overreach that does not allow those children to figure out their own gender. And again, the same people fighting for TG rights have fought against that kind of medical overreach. sigh.

  123. Jean Henry
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    PS EOS– attitudes like yours are precisely what condemns TG people to life as an outcast.

  124. Jean Henry
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    “Then why didn’t you correct the 8 year old?” EOS quickly exposes their own cruelty and desire to punish those who are not ‘normal’ by their estimation.

    Who the fuck is normal? I have yet to get a normal person.

  125. EOS
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 10:12 pm | Permalink

    Jean,

    Intersex persons have an underlying genetic makeup that clearly defines their sex. There have been numerous studies. The earlier the ambiguous genitalia are surgically corrected, the better. As long as the child is raised as a single sex, they develop normally. The problems result only when the ambiguity is prolonged. Our entire society is organized around binary genders. The child needed affirmation that she was a girl even when she had some aspects of her person being more androgynous or masculine. It is not her fault that her parents failed to provide that affirmation. They condemned her when they allowed her 8 year old feelings to make her consider that the aspects of her being that were outside the typical gender role stereotype somehow disqualified her from embracing her real gender. It was the innocent 8 year old that thought she wasn’t a real girl and that her parents allowed her to change her sex confirmed that for her. I say love her and consider her normal as she is. Her parents are the ones who thought they didn’t have a normal little girl. Otherwise they would have told her.

  126. EOS
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 5:51 am | Permalink

    https://youtu.be/27qjn0v4Av4

  127. David Axelrod by proxy
    Posted November 16, 2019 at 10:53 pm | Permalink

    This disastrous week for @realDonaldTrump is ending with the defeat of his candidate for Gov in LA, for whom he made three visits, including 48 hours ago. Dem Gov. @JohnBelforLA wins.

  128. frico chicho
    Posted November 16, 2019 at 11:09 pm | Permalink

    Trump in Louisiana on Thursday: “You’ve got to give me a big win, okay?”

    Video: https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1195910433938575360?s=20

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