Impeachment open thread

Well, here we are. Tomorrow morning, at 10:00 AM, the impeachment inquiry into Donald Trump’s abuse of power will enter its public phase, as Bill Taylor, the acting U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, and George Kent, the deputy assistant secretary of state for European and Eurasian affairs, testify before the House Intelligence Committee. This, my friends, is when the shit starts getting real.

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111 Comments

  1. Posted November 12, 2019 at 9:43 pm | Permalink

    I’d like say more, but I really don’t have time at the moment. Hopefully, though, it’s enough just to open a new thread, where you can leave comments tomorrow, as you’re watching the testimony.

    I don’t think the entire schedule has been released yet, but the following witnesses, I believe have all been confirmed.

    This Friday, former Ukraine Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch will be testifying.

    Next Tuesday, Jennifer Williams, Alexander Vindman, Kurt Volker and Tim Morrison will be testifying.

    Next Wednesday, Gordon Sondland, Laura Cooper and David Hale will be testifying.

    Next Thursday, Fiona Hill will be testifying.

  2. Sad
    Posted November 12, 2019 at 10:18 pm | Permalink

    I have a bad feeling about this.

  3. Kurt Bardella
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 8:05 am | Permalink

    Just remember that when Republicans on the Intelligence Committee complain about “due process” or label the impeachment investigation a “sham” – it’s being conducted under the very rules Republicans wrote when they were in the majority.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-rages-about-impeachment-twitter-he-has-republicans-blame-rules-ncna1078921

  4. Asha Rangappa by proxy
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 11:21 am | Permalink

    TAYLOR: Felt “embarrassed” that he could not explain to Ukrainians why aid was being delayed. I.e., UKRAINE KNEW THE AID WAS BEING WITHHELD.

  5. iRobert
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

    The Republicans should have had HW do their opening statement. They would have been better off.

  6. Bob
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

    The initial takeaway is I’ll bet even his mother would like to smash Devin Nunes in his stupid face

  7. Sad
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

    Giant mistake.

  8. iRobert
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

    As incredibly stupid as the American public is, I still think they are a smidgeon less stupid than the Republicans in Congress seem to believe.

  9. Jean Henry
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

    They are laying it out piece by piece. Every point made by the Republicans was bullshit. Their base will buy it for a while, but as this gets opened up bit by bit, the public will see what’s up. Then they can decide how they feel about our president. Polls show some firming up among the GOP but most Americans are seeing that the President is beyond control and reason. That said I’m certain he won’t be removed from office. He should be, but he won’t be.

    SAD is wrong. This won’t backfire. Trump could still win (he’s an incumbent and the economy is still doing well) but I don’t see how this helps him do it.

  10. Jean Henry
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 10:15 pm | Permalink

    Meanwhile the Fed Chair was addressing congress about a projected trillion dollar deficit in 2020. How are these people ever going to agree on a federal budget? If a Dom gets elected, he or she is likely to inherit another financial mess like Obama did, except this time with a trillion dollar deficit going IN to office. Hard to push for radical change when the economy is tanking and the country is broke:

    “The federal government, which ended the 2019 budget year with its largest deficit in seven years, began the new budget year with a deficit in October that was 33.8% bigger than a year ago as spending hit a record.

    The Treasury Department said Wednesday that the deficit last month totaled $134.5 billion, up from a shortfall in October 2018 of $100.5 billion.

    The government ran up a deficit of $984.4 billion for the 2019 budget year that ended Sept. 30, 26% larger than in 2018.

    The Congressional Budget Office is forecasting that the deficit for 2020 will hit $1 trillion and will remain over $1 trillion for the next decade. The country has not experienced $1 trillion annual deficits since 2009 through 2012 following the 2008 financial crisis.

    The projections of trillion-dollar deficits are in contrast to President Donald Trump’s campaign promises in 2016 that even with his proposed tax cuts he would be able to eliminate future deficits with cuts in spending and growth in revenues from a stronger economy.”

    In a congressional appearance Wednesday, Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell said the “federal budget deficit is on an unsustainable path, with high and rising debt.” He said that if not addressed, the growing deficit could restrain the ability of Congress and the administration to combat any future recession.

    https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2019/11/13/business/bc-us-budget-deficit.html?searchResultPosition=1

  11. John Brown
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 7:41 am | Permalink

    Look at that little princess Lyndsay Graham squirming in front of Agent orange and Erdogon yesterday, and then he immediately blocked the Armenian Genocide bill in the senate. I also doubt the ruskie stooge will be removed because so many GOPers are also complicit in the ruskie/NRA money laundering and electioneering treason of 2016 and beyond. But thats the message that ultimately has to be hammered. This Ukraine extortion is just the sideshow that he did out in the open, but not the real story of systematic treason in the GOP.

  12. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    “They are laying it out piece by piece. Every point made by the Republicans was bullshit.”

    No.

  13. EOS
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 9:26 am | Permalink

    It’s not just Hunter. It’s never been about a potential political opponent.

    Pelosi’s son
    Kerry’s son
    Romney’s son
    Biden’s son

  14. Sad
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 9:31 am | Permalink

    Bush’s sons

  15. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 9:47 am | Permalink

    Is there one person out there who thinks Trump did not want to go against Biden? The leader of the cult is a damned psycho—and his name is Schiff. Dude is weird. People are really going to following that crazy man all the way down? Have fun.

  16. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 10:06 am | Permalink

    Kent believes himself to be qualified to state it is clear to him that it was Russia who is responsible for interfering in the 2016 election. He is arrogant about his judgment and at the same time he admitted he had never heard of Crowdstrike before (!) What the holy fuck!? Whether or not he Is aware of it, his judgement, which he holds arrogantly, is/was based on Crowdstrikes analysis and summary. He seemed completely clueless about that fact still…Mueller accepted Crowdstrike’s analysis and summary without re-investigating it for itself. Crowdstrike was caught manufacturing fake Russia bots in an Alabama election. The owner of Crowdstrike was banned from Facebook for disinformation and manipulation of the platform.

  17. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 10:11 am | Permalink

    Deeply clueless.

    https://www.mediaite.com/tv/george-kent-demolishes-trumps-crowdstrike-conspiracy-no-factual-basis/

  18. dogmatic dolt
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    Aloha FF, you are confusing New Knowledge (which has now changed its name to Yonder) with Crowdstrike.

  19. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    Thanks DD. You are right.

    I messed that post up. I mixed up Crowdstrike with New Knowlege in parts. It is not as bad as I made it seem. Crowdstrike was not part of manufacturing Russian bots to “experiment” in the Alabama election. However, the connection claim of Russian interference in the election relies very heavily on Crowdstrike’s analysis and summary of forensic evidence. The fact that Kent simultaneously holds onto a strong judgment arrogantly, and yet does not even know the source upon which his judgment largely rests upon is typical unfortunately yet also damning.

  20. John Brown
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    Fashy, I think your assignment from pooty and agent orange is to repeat the words “Burisma and Biden” ad nauseum. Now be a good cult member, and traitor to the Constitution, and stick to the damn script.

  21. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 10:48 am | Permalink

    In the last 24 hours I have heard the theory that this impeachment charade is not just to try to “get Trump” but rather also the charade is designed to, because of the timing, hamstring the campaigns of the more leftist senators running for president. What do people here think about that? What if that is true? What if the impeachment stuff has more to do with grabbing control for the centrist Democrats like Biden and (gulp) Hillary?

  22. Sad
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    I’m all for anything that hinders the old people’s chances of getting nominated.

    Nothing could help Biden. He’s hopeless.

  23. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    You are a savage, Sad.

  24. Lynne
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

    FF, I don’t think election manipulation by foreigners is ok, even if it helps the candidates I support.

  25. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

    Good to know. You didn’t address the specific question though in a way that incorporates the theory. The theory being floated around is that it is not about impeaching Trump. That is, it is about forcing the more leftist Senator presidential candidates to sit trial when they need to be on the campaign trail. FWIW I heard the theory from a left source and from a right source last night.

    Foreign interference bad. We all know. What about establishment Dems interfering to rig the nomination again? Didn’t you say sharing the debate questions was not a big deal?

  26. Jean Henry
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    “They are laying it out piece by piece. Every point made by the Republicans was bullshit.”
    No.

    –solid retort FF.

  27. Jean Henry
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    EOS: “It’s not just Hunter. It’s never been about a potential political opponent.
    Pelosi’s son
    Kerry’s son
    Romney’s son
    Biden’s son”

    Was this ironic? Hahahahaha!

  28. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    If we are dealing with a scam here, then the next thing to do is to look to see who benefits from the scam.

  29. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

    Weak statements sometimes just deserve dismissal. I am short on time. If you think the Republican points were total BS, then all I have to say is: God bless you.

  30. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    It is interesting that Lynne answered my question in a way that is totally oblivious to the theory that conditioned the question. In practice Lynne, like many establishment Dems, seem to be blind to corruption as it benefits their agenda. They don’t realize people to their left and right are judging them and rightfully so. It is like playing hide and seek with a child who, instead of hiding, closes their own eyes and wrongly believes having their eyes closed makes them invisible to the person looking for them.

    We can see you.

  31. Jean Henry
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    Aw shucks, Thanks, FF.

    Which of the Dom points did you agree with?

  32. Jean Henry
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    Do you have any concerns about Trump’s actions in this affair? Or at all?

    Would you care to share them?

    If in fact, this is all a scam, wont that be revealed by a hearing?

    But really, and truly, I would like to hear which Dom representatives had points with which you agreed?

  33. Jean Henry
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

    What Pelosi said:
    https://twitter.com/darylsturgis/status/1195016137941176320

  34. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

    How is Pelosi’s statement good/smart?

    The term “exculpatory evidence” is almost always used in reference to the prosecutions legal obligation to share evidence that points toward the defendants innocence. To say, as Pelosi did, that Trump is missing his opportunity to “show his innocence” is a very dumb thing to say. People that think that was a “cool” thing for Pelosi to say don’t understand basic due process.

    Disturbing.

  35. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 7:40 pm | Permalink

    “If in fact, this is all a scam, wont that be revealed by a hearing?“

    No. “Revealed” is an odd term to use. It’s not that easy. The scam I theorized about would function to influence election processes regardless of whether or not the actual accusation is grounded in anything substantial.

  36. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    “Do you have any concerns about Trump’s actions in this affair? Or at all?“

    If there was evidence that Trump asked Zelensky to manufacture a lie against Biden, then I would support his removal from office. I have not seen any evidence of that. I have heard Schiff claim Trump asked Z to “make up dirt”. Absent evidence to support that claim Schiff is a liar. I support Schiff’s removal from office. Little Schiff is a very dangerous person.

  37. Jean Henry
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 9:28 pm | Permalink

    You did not answer my primary question FF– which was in response to your comment to lynne. (“In practice Lynne, like many establishment Dems, seem to be blind to corruption as it benefits their agenda. “) Please tell us which of the Dem Party points do you agree with?

    Or is the another case of the pat calling the kettle black?

  38. Jean Henry
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

    Also, just as a point of criticism of your rhetorical technique, a supporter of Trump’s repeatedly accusing those who differ with him liars is, well, not a strong argument.

    Your righteousness amuses.

  39. Jean Henry
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 9:32 pm | Permalink

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/10/14/president-trump-has-made-false-or-misleading-claims-over-days/

  40. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

    You are imagining that you created a question that is parallel to mine. You are wrong.

    Your question is phony. You think my failure to answer a phony question proves something? It does not.

    I asked what people would think if a specific theory was true. You asked me to name Dem points I agree with… Weird question.

    I actually answered a parallel question for you. I told you what I would think if the theory that Trump asked for Z to lie about Biden was true. You are welcome.

  41. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 10:16 pm | Permalink

    I don’t accuse people of lying when there is a mere difference of opinion. Stop pretending I do that. I’m glad I amuse you. I find you disturbing. You should investigate what is behind your laughter.

  42. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 10:21 pm | Permalink

    What does Trump’s status as a well know bullshitter have to do with Jean Henry making stuff up constantly? If Trump is the second coming of Jesus, then Jean is still Jean.

  43. Jean Henry
    Posted November 15, 2019 at 1:44 am | Permalink

    FF– No. You really don’t follow. You accused Lynne like other establishment Dems of not being able to see the corruption in their own party, when you are clearly blind to corruption on the right. You are unable to state any Dem talking point in this situation with which you agree. I found all the GOP talking points to be evasive bullshittery. And you think my supposed lies (which are largely points and perspectives with which you disagree, not counterfactual) are worse than Trump’s and of greater concern to you. Your double standard is showing again FF.

    The use of phony is really extra choice Holden.

    You are simply dense to anyone else’s perspective. Maybe that’s why you feel so disturbed by other people’s opinions and takes all the time.

  44. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 15, 2019 at 5:56 am | Permalink

    “And you think my supposed lies (which are largely points and perspectives with which you disagree, not counterfactual)”

    No. Just stop. You are making stuff up again.

  45. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 15, 2019 at 6:36 am | Permalink

    Your criticism of me is especially weird here because the theory I was asking about is a theory that both Dems and Republicans are putting forward about establishment Dems attempting to manipulate the election. I first read about it from a leftist Trump critics twitter (Aaron Mate I think) and then again on Tucker’s show (I forget the guest) . That is, I am entertaining the possible truth of a theory that claims that Schiff and Co are intentionally using the timing of the impeachment inquiry to hurt the campaigns of specific Dem- Senator- candidates.

    Ask me about something specific and I will try to answer your question.

    This double standard argument you are obsessed with levying over and over again is lame and boring. You think it is a clever criticism. It isn’t interesting at all.

    You are too obtuse to realize I agree with the non- establishment left on many things… Ask a question about something specific and I will try to answer…

    I literally, within this conversation, spelled out a possible evidential trigger I would accept as the basis for impeachment yet you insist on parroting your “double standard” argument again here? It’s just a bunch of empty words from you Jean. Re-read what you said above. It is a bunch of empty non-sense.

  46. Sad
    Posted November 15, 2019 at 7:10 am | Permalink

    I understand what you’re saying FF.

    You believe commentators on the left and right who think Pelosi is orchestrating this whole impeachment just to help Mayor Pete win the nomination to satisfy her gay mafia constituents back in San Francisco.

    Totally reasonable.

  47. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 15, 2019 at 7:33 am | Permalink

    The theory, as I heard it, did not seem to put any emphasis on raising people up or putting candidates down based upon sexuality. I wouldn’t say I believe the theory but I did find it interesting. Depending on the timing impeachment would seem to help Pete, Biden and possibly ____. Certain timing of impeachmwnr would in fact hurt Warren and Bernie.

    It is something to keep an eye on, imo.

  48. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 15, 2019 at 7:40 am | Permalink

    I am curious what iRobert thinks about the theory.

  49. Sad
    Posted November 15, 2019 at 7:46 am | Permalink

    Who care what iRobert thinks? What does he know?

    I need to get my waffles ready. When do the hearing start?

  50. Jean Henry
    Posted November 15, 2019 at 8:53 am | Permalink

    FF imagines that politics is easy to manipulate to create a determined outcome. I mean it’s simple: Create a false ‘scam’ case for impeachment, hold fraudulent hearings and then, depending on the timing, it will help the more establishment Dems get elected. Maybe.

    That seems totally plausible and wroth the trouble.

    Only people on either extreme would ever believe that Bernie and Warren are so frightening to Pelosi and the Dem party that she would go these lengths. People like Pelosi know that Bernie and Warren will be plenty limited by simple functioning democracy from fulfilling all of their campaign promises. They are not scary, especially not to Pelosi and her Bay Area base.

  51. iRobert
    Posted November 15, 2019 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    I think there is almost certainly some truth to it, FF, though I admit I haven’t read much about it yet.

  52. iRobert
    Posted November 15, 2019 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    I don’t think the move to impeach was motivated by the competition in the Democratic primary contest, but I do think now that the impeachment is proceeding, it will also be used to the advantage of establishment Democratic Party interests over challengers.

  53. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 15, 2019 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    Where is CIAmarella?

  54. iRobert
    Posted November 15, 2019 at 9:52 am | Permalink

    What kind of CIA agent tweets the shit he is thinking or doing? It’s bizarre.

    I’m amazed that anyone working for any intelligence agency is permitted to have a personal twitter account. It’s incredibly dumb.

  55. iRobert
    Posted November 15, 2019 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    FF,

    I’m guessing there are strategists looking at how to make these impeachment proceedings favor certain candidates. Keeping the senators in DC from late January through February would have an impact on their campaigns in the early caucus/primary states.

    Have there been some other possible impacts suggested? I’m guessing there are all sorts of angles which can be developed from this.

  56. Sad
    Posted November 15, 2019 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    It’s all good for Mayor Pete though. Right?

  57. iRobert
    Posted November 15, 2019 at 10:25 am | Permalink

    As far as I can tell Mayor Pete benefits from almost anything that happens in regard to the impeachment.

  58. iRobert
    Posted November 15, 2019 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    Deval Patrick is clearly getting into the race for the purpose of strategically eroding support to certain other candidates, especially in New Hampshire.

  59. Sad
    Posted November 15, 2019 at 10:32 am | Permalink

    Go Mayor Pete!

  60. Posted November 15, 2019 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    From the New York Times:

    How Michael Bloomberg and Deval Patrick Could Alter the 2020 Race

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/15/us/politics/deval-patrick-michael-bloomberg-2020.html

  61. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 15, 2019 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    Thanks iRobert. Your guesses seem reasonable to me. I don’t know much about it beyond what I mentioned. I just thought it was an interesting theory that was proposed from people on opposite ends of the political spectrum and I think it might be something to keep an eye on.

  62. Posted November 15, 2019 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

    PBS has live coverage now (noon) and broadcast locally over channel 56.4

    Also live-streaming here:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DbW-A96UIm8

  63. Posted November 19, 2019 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    Here’s the link to today’s PBS live streaming coverage:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=noR-FOn5XGM

  64. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 19, 2019 at 9:45 am | Permalink

    Vindman cannot even read his shit without stammering and stumbling.

  65. iRobert
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 9:52 am | Permalink

    Here’s the link to today’s PBS live streaming coverage:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5BoT5LYBbNM

  66. iRobert
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    Ambassador Sondland has been the most interesting person to appear in the impeachment hearings yet. He seems remarkably comfortable and upbeat.

  67. iRobert
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    When the Republicans controlled the US House, why did they not have hearings to investigate the relationship between Hunter Biden and Barisma?

  68. Sad
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    Upbeat during the first part. Not so sunny now.

  69. iRobert
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

    We’re seeing the quality of personnel we get when any millionaire can buy himself an ambassadorship.

    That part of the swamp doesn’t appear to have been drained.

  70. iRobert
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    So these dopes use WhatsApp and unsecured phone lines? Russian and Chinese spies must really appreciate that, along with all the other advasaries the US has around the world.

  71. iRobert
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    I thought Chairman Schiff’s closing statements were pretty good.

  72. Posted November 20, 2019 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

    Watch Live: Cooper, Hale Testify At Trump Impeachment Hearing | NBC News

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=APW6Jr1XPGA

  73. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    Replace the phrase Trump “got caught” with the phrase that Trump “got accused” and Schiff’s closing statement becomes much less persuasive.

    Nunes is not nearly as intelligent as Schiff and I think Schiff is a much more skilled liar.

  74. dogmatic dolt
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

    Aloha iRobert, “When the Republicans controlled the US House, why did they not have hearings to investigate the relationship between Hunter Biden and Barisma? ”

    I too have wondered about that. I think Republicans could care less about corruption. Two things matter to them, money and power (both of which are corrupting but remember they don’t care). They figured Biden was a has been cast off, and of course every one of them expect to cash in when they leave office. That whole “swamp” thing that Trump convinced some folks that he was going to drain.

  75. iRobert
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

    The Republicans could have conducted investigations and hearings looking into the Steele Dossier also, and didn’t.

  76. Sad
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 7:27 pm | Permalink

    Is the impeachment going to interfere with the debate?

  77. Jean Henry
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

    Before Sondland came on, Nunez apologized in advance for the supposed Des smear campaign that was going to happen to him. Then he verified the ‘quid pro quo’ and they came back and tried to smear him. When they had nothing to say tonight, GOP reps went back to that stupid blankets Obama line of questioning which was repeated ad nauseam because all they could do was try to repeat that nonsense and hope it gives Fox News a usable clip.

    Tiresome. On both sides honestly. Were the Watergate hearings this dull. I’d like the questioners speaking for the witnesses (making inferences the witnesses would not make) at the end of each line of questioning to stop. Turning on the debates now. I hope it will be better. Anything would be better than this.

  78. iRobert
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    The hearings have adjourned, and will reconvene tomorrow morning at 9am.

  79. dogmatic dolt
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

    Aloha JH, there were two Watergate Hearings. The first and the one where all the info came out was the Senate Hearing. It was a lengthy. Most questioning was done by the counsels for each party. Chairman Ervin was a character and would enliven things on occasion. Depending on whom the witness was, it was good drama to boring. The life hearing went on for weeks.
    The actual House impeachment Hearing was much quicker. The only drama in the House impeachment hearings was whether or not articles of impeachment for acts beyond the Watergate break-in and cover-up would be included.

  80. Jean Henry
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 10:17 pm | Permalink

    https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1197213950535974912?s=20

  81. Jean Henry
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 10:23 pm | Permalink

    DD– I used the plural ‘hearings.’ I know a reasonable amount about Watergate. I remember it being on the tv all the time at my house. I realized I have mostly consumed it in snippets and recounted in books. so it seemed more compelling. What I don’t remember was all the politicking. It seemed more serious. Maybe sound bites weren’t;t a thing then. Probably not. I wish we had a Sam Ervin in this one. He was more than entertaining; he centered the hearings in principle. (And yes, I know his overall political legacy is very very mixed.)

  82. Jean Henry
    Posted November 20, 2019 at 10:28 pm | Permalink

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcMXi24QE7Y

  83. Posted November 21, 2019 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    Here’s a link to C-SPAN’s live stream:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MpTIb_HubrY

  84. iRobert
    Posted November 21, 2019 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    I have to wonder why nobody close to Trump ever suggested to him that everything he wanted to do with regard to investigating the Bidens should be done by private investigators working for the Trump 2020 campaign committee. If they were to find any criminal wrongdoing, that information could then be passed on to law enforcement in the US.

    To me, failing to advise Trump in this way seems sort of like setting him up. But I guess it looks more like they really just were this arrogant, flagrant, and reckless.

    When John Bolton is the level head in the room, you know you’ve stepped through the looking glass.

  85. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 21, 2019 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    But the DOJ was Obama-appointed as were the FBI and CIA heads. Do you not see the enormity of the problem when intelligence agencies are allowed by a President to manufacture lies about any American citizen, let alone a candidate? Not only was there an official smear campaign they abused the FISA process to spy on Mr. Trump and associates. No trouble on the horizon in this regard with the IG report finally slated for release 12/9/19 do you think?

  86. Jean Henry
    Posted November 21, 2019 at 11:08 am | Permalink

    I’m super excited for that IG report too HW. Man, its been long time coming. Barr must be really cooking up something good since he wrested it away from IG Horowitz. It’s going to be good. I mean, it’s all you all have left. (Except the sealed indictments which will never be opened.) Trump is pretty well fucked if Barr doesn’t come through with something… and then amplify the shit out of it. It’s his last shot.

    If it ends up not being what you expect, HW, what will you do?

  87. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 21, 2019 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    Not all I have by a long shot. Durham has criminal indictments for one thing.

  88. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 21, 2019 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    What would you do if all hell broke loose and I turn out to be correct? Hillary Clinton arrest? Brennan, Comey, Clapper…all them and many more. That would be a crossroad in life I would think. Do you continue in the same direction or do you see the wisdom of changing course?

  89. Posted November 21, 2019 at 11:45 am | Permalink

    Here is the PBS livestream for Day 5 of the hearings:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cKP5K8Pn6LU

  90. iRobert
    Posted November 21, 2019 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    Today’s hearing reconvenes at 12:45pm ET

  91. Jean Henry
    Posted November 21, 2019 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

    HW– I already have a plan for that. Hand you $1000 dollars and kiss your boots. That’s just how worried I am about any of that happening.

  92. Jean Henry
    Posted November 21, 2019 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

    I will begin subscribing to conspiracy theories.

    That’s my plan for what to do if it turns out I’m full of shit.

    You have been a great role model.

  93. Jean Henry
    Posted November 21, 2019 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

    Mr Durham seems like a stand up guy, so I doubt his investigation will find much. Aren’t you getting tired of pinning your hopes on minor investigation after minor investigation against HRC, the DNC. etc that go nowhere? (especially given the whopper we have going against Trump?) You guys must be tired of things going nowhere. I guess that explains the deep state paranoia. I mean it couldn’t be that apolitical investigators actually found nothing indictable in all those investigations? It had to be rigged, right?

    Barr is phishing. Let’s see if he finds anything. If he does, it will put Trump’s high crimes in clear relief. If it doesn’t he can tell Trump he tried his darnedest to rig things in his favor. Putin is more reliable that way.

  94. Jean Henry
    Posted November 21, 2019 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/24/us/politics/john-durham-criminal-investigation.html

  95. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 21, 2019 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

    NYT also said Ukraine helped Clinton with intelligence on the Trump campaign so it’s a conspiracy rag, right?

  96. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 21, 2019 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

    You have it completely backwards, Jean. They have nothing on the President but we have everything on them. They are desperately trying to get him right now before the hammer falls.

  97. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 21, 2019 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

    fulsome

  98. dogmatic dolt
    Posted November 21, 2019 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    Aloha JH, curious what you mean by, ” Barr must be really cooking up something good since he wrested it away from IG Horowitz.” The news i read says, “In a letter sent on Thursday to Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey Graham, Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz said he expected his office to be able to release the report on Dec. 9 “barring unforeseen circumstances.” ”

    It sounds like Horowitz and the Inspector General’s office is still in charge. The Inspector General’s report is not the same as the investigation being carried out by Durham.

  99. Jean Henry
    Posted November 21, 2019 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    I posted an article on another thread here, saying Barr was running the show now. They speculated that Horowitz wasn’t;t damning enough. Maybe he’s going to spin it for Trump like he did the Mueller report. We’ll know when we know. I’ll try to find it. But just because someone’s name is on a white paper doesn’t;t mean they had approval over the final draft. Especially when their boss is doing the editing.

  100. Jean Henry
    Posted November 21, 2019 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

    Not the same one but Barr has had the Report for a month. He was heard discussing it with Trump for so long Trump was 30 minutes late to a rally. (This is v. much against protocol.)Concerns have been raised because witnesses whose testimonies have been included have two weeks to review, but had to sign NDC’s and are limited in their requests for revision (no requests in writing.). https://theweek.com/speedreads/880178/cnns-chris-cuomo-struggles-disprove-trump-tweet-by-awkwardly-calling-mom-live-air

  101. Jean Henry
    Posted November 21, 2019 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    oops. wrong link. https://theweek.com/speedreads/878647/trump-attorney-general-barr-animated-talk-reportedly-about-horowitz-report-oval-office

  102. Jean Henry
    Posted November 21, 2019 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/justice-dept-watchdog-wont-let-witnesses-give-written-feedback-on-report-about-fbis-russia-probe-sparking-fears-of-inaccuracy/2019/11/14/1236d0aa-070d-11ea-b17d-8b867891d39d_story.html

  103. iRobert
    Posted November 21, 2019 at 2:20 pm | Permalink

    Dr. Fiona Hill has been an excellent witness today, wouldn’t you agree, DD.

  104. dogmatic dolt
    Posted November 21, 2019 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    Aloha iRobert, I’ve not been watching today’s show. Figured I would watch the highlights. But if you say she was excellent, I suspect you are correct. I just stumbled across this article. Headline, “Head of Burisma Holdings Linked to Hunter Biden Is Indicted in Ukraine” .
    When I do a google search I don’t see that the NY Times, Washington Post or any other major media have covered it.
    Is this fake news, misinformation?

  105. iRobert
    Posted November 21, 2019 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    DD,

    I’m seeing that headline on a few forums and blogs, but have yet to see any source I recognize post it. It’s also being said that the individual in question has gone missing. We’ll have to watch and see if this spreads or disappears.

  106. dogmatic dolt
    Posted November 21, 2019 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

    Aloha iRobert, Here is the press conference in Ukraine that is the basis of the reports. As near as I can tell these are two parliamentarians who are exposing/leaking information about the GPU (state security) investigation that involves Burisma and Biden.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDB4Q-YMGfk

  107. Posted November 24, 2019 at 5:09 am | Permalink

    From The Raw Story:

    More people are watching impeachment hearings than Trump’s last season of Celebrity Apprentice

    https://www.rawstory.com/2019/11/more-people-are-watching-impeachment-hearings-than-trumps-last-season-of-celebrity-apprentice/

  108. iRobert
    Posted November 24, 2019 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    Chuck Todd is talking about the Steele Dossier on NBC’s Meet The Press today.

  109. Posted November 24, 2019 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    Peter Fritsch and Glenn Simpson were on Meet the Press. Did anybody here watch?

    Their book “Crime in Progress”:
    https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/624779/crime-in-progress-by-glenn-simpson-and-peter-fritsch/

  110. dogmatic dolt
    Posted November 24, 2019 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

    Aloha iRobert, I did not watch the interview. I’m sure it was enlightening. I read the promo for the book. I then looked Simpson up on wikipedea. The relevant quote they have on wikipedea is:
    “Simpson left journalism in part to earn more money. Explaining why he left journalism, he quipped: “We don’t use the word ‘sold out.’ We use the word ‘cashed in.’”[7]

    the other interesting factoide. We all knew that Fusion GPS was originally hired to do opposition research on Trump by a conservative newspaper. They stopped paying them in May 2016. It was only after Fusion GPS was hired by the Clinton campaign (through her campaign law firm) that they then hired Steele and began getting dirt from Russia. On June 14 2016 the DNC began accusing the Russians of hacking into them.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/russian-government-hackers-penetrated-dnc-stole-opposition-research-on-trump/2016/06/14/cf006cb4-316e-11e6-8ff7-7b6c1998b7a0_story.html

  111. dogmatic dolt
    Posted November 24, 2019 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, of course by June the “fixing” of the Democratic Primary was becoming apparent. Once the DNC and Podesta emails were made public, “the corruption and rot at the center of the Democratic Party” was becoming apparent. By July 2016 the theft of the nomination by Clinton was becoming common knowledge
    https://cosmoso.net/100-page-report-shows-staggering-evidence-of-election-fraud-in-democratic-primary/?fbclid=IwAR2UDK2mGZ5HUuQRKKwZwsKySGdiQerXizqzJdO2mIjOFUOjRV5aHTGTpA0

    The need for another narrative was necessary.

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