Rocked by the Taylor testimony, Trump commands his loyalists in Congress to physically obstruct the House Intelligence Committee’s lawful impeachment inquiry

Yesterday, after Bill Taylor, the acting U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, gave closed-door testimony before the House Intelligence Committee, things began to take a noticeable turn in Washington. As word came out that Taylor had described in detail, under penalty of perjury, the President’s demand that Ukraine publicly announce a corruption investigation into Joe and Hunter Biden and validate a roundly debunked conspiracy theory concerning the whereabouts of a Democratic email server in exchange for a meeting at the White House and foreign military aid, a few significant things happened.

First, Rudy Giuliani started looking for a criminal defense attorney.

Second, White House Press Secretary Stephanie Grisham issued a statement attacking the acting U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, calling him (and others) a “radical unelected bureaucrat“, neglecting to mention that Taylor, a West Point graduate and Vietnam veteran who has served his country with distinction for decades, was brought to the Trump administration by the President’s own Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo… Here’s that statement.

Third, Donald Trump, according to the Washington Post’s Josh Dawsey, gave the word to Republican members of the House’s so-called Freedom Caucus, to fight back as hard as they could. And, today, we saw what Donald Trump meant by that, when Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz, with he approval of the President himself, led over 30 members of his congressional delegation into a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility (SCIF), where the House Intelligence Committee was in the process of deposing yet another witness in their impeachment investigation. [The Republican stunt, which New York Senator Chuck Schumer said was “designed to intimidate people from revealing the truth” delayed the proceedings by five hours.]

Gaetz, after entering the room with his “derp state” band of Trumpists, tweeted out, “I led over 30 of my colleagues into the SCIF where Adam Schiff is holding secret impeachment depositions,” clearly intending to give the impression that Republicans were somehow being excluded from these proceedings. This, however, was not the case. The depositions in question were not being taken in secret. They were being taken before the House Intelligence Committee, which is comprised of both Democrats and Republicans. [It’s being reported that a quarter of the Republicans who forced their way into the chamber with Gaetz, given their committee assignments, could have attended the hearing anyway.] Had Gaetz wanted to know what was covered during the session, he would have only had to ask a colleague. Instead, however, he pulled a stunt. And, in so doing, he and his associates violated national security protocol. Here, with more on that, is something from former NSA officer John Schindler.

[For background on why cellphones are absolutely banned from SCIFs, I’d encourage you to read this article in the Washington Examiner.]

Here’s the footage of the conspiracy forcing their way into the SCIF. [I’ve decided that a group of Republicans should be referred to as a “conspiracy”.]

There’s more that I could say, but that’s pretty much the gist of it… A Trump administration official testified that the President of the United States gave the order to withhold foreign military aid to Ukraine, knowing full well that Ukrainians would die as result, until such time that the new president of the country agreed to publicly open an investigation into Joe Biden. And, in response, the White House not only slandered the respected foreign service officer, but directed Republicans to physically obstruct a lawful impeachment inquiry. This, to quote Bill Taylor, is absolutely “crazy“.

One last thing…

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103 Comments

  1. Anonymous
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 10:22 pm | Permalink

    #ArrestGaetz is trending.

  2. Rep. Eric Swalwell by proxy
    Posted October 24, 2019 at 6:15 am | Permalink

    I’ve always thought telling my children I served with civil rights icons like John Lewis & Elijah Cummings would be the highlight of my time in Congress. But now, I can share the time Matt Gaetz, Louie Gohhmert, & Steve King sat in an air-conditioned SCIF and ate pizza for 5 hrs.

  3. Fox News
    Posted October 24, 2019 at 6:30 am | Permalink

    Fox News is reporting that some Republican members “asked to be arrested.” Thankfully, they weren’t. That’s exactly what they wanted.

  4. John Brown
    Posted October 24, 2019 at 6:38 am | Permalink

    Dems are playing this well so far. Public opinion is rapidly swinging against agent oranges ruskie stooge mob.

  5. maryd
    Posted October 24, 2019 at 7:36 am | Permalink

    Imagine if the women of the House did this to a Senate closed door hearing…imagine. Women are censored on the floor for language repugnant to sensitive old white men.

  6. Jean Henry
    Posted October 24, 2019 at 7:51 am | Permalink

    There will be more rebellions of old straight white guys in suits before we get anywhere near equity.

  7. iRobert
    Posted October 24, 2019 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    You should also mention their oddly-shaped heads.

  8. facebook stalker
    Posted October 24, 2019 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    Matt ‘white resentment’ Gaetz

    https://twitter.com/TrueFactsStated/status/1187380047054852096?s=20

  9. Xeni Jardin by proxy
    Posted October 24, 2019 at 10:01 am | Permalink

    I believe people have danced around this topic, but is it possible that Gaetz or other members of his his phalanx phuckers crashed the SCIF knowingly with malware on their phones to aid in intelligence gathering for Russia or some crap? No arrests? No devices conficscated?

  10. Jean Henry
    Posted October 24, 2019 at 10:28 am | Permalink

    No body shaming, iRobert.
    C’mon how hard is it to just refrain from implying a person’s body type says anything at all about them?

  11. Jean Henry
    Posted October 24, 2019 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    “is it possible that Gaetz or other members of his his phalanx phuckers crashed the SCIF knowingly with malware on their phones to aid in intelligence gathering for Russia or some crap? No arrests? No devices conficscated?”

    — It’s possible but incredibly unlikely. Why is it that people believe others have malcontent when the entire history of the world is one of the failure of good intentions.

  12. Jean Henry
    Posted October 24, 2019 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    *malintent not malcontent

  13. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 24, 2019 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    Not much good being able to attend if they can’t talk about it. You can’t go about impeaching a President with sneaky rule-bending behavior and lies. If you want to impeach then have a vote. If it is successful there will be a trial where the President can subpoena witnesses to defend himself. The dems are trying to create an illusion to string people like you and keep this con game going as long as they can.

    What happened to the whistleblower? Why do people like Schiff and Schumer never come up with the goods as they promise? Why take their word for anything after their claims of having evidence of collusion disintegrated? Dems have painted themselves into a corner; pain incoming.

  14. Bob
    Posted October 24, 2019 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

    I just literally (as the kids say) laughed out loud at you suggesting using lies is no way to battle Trump, Warlord. God love you. You are just a walking bundle of unintentional comic gold. Like a half dozen Yakov Smirnoff’s and a Gallagher or two.

  15. Jean Henry
    Posted October 24, 2019 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

    HW– The trial is private so that witnesses called to testify don’t hear what the others say. This is simply discovery and it’s a really standard process. And they aren’t Dem exclusive. GOP committee members are there. If there is a vote and a trial, all that you want will happen. I’m sure you don’t want witnesses to be intimidated since you believe there is a deep state cover up and want the truth to be revealed, right?

    The only thing that has happened that is out of the ordinary so far was the GOP non-committee members storming the meeting trying to pretend some great injustice is being perpetrated. Impeachment hearings aren’t common but this one is running its course as they do.

    If you don’t believe Pelosi has the right to call for this process, they have recourse in court. The President thinks he cannot be convicted of ANY crime while in office. Pelosi thinks she can call an impeachment inquiry.Both are open legal questions. All I know, is so far Pelosi is winning this thing politically and those on the left and right might want to take note and occasionally pause before blathering ideological bs. I was for impeachment earlier but I always understood Pelosi’s political and constitutional reasoning. I was right that impeachment was warranted after Mueller. She was right that it would have posed a huge distraction and Trump was going to mess up in other more obvious ways and a clean prosecution is always better than a big complicated one.

  16. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 24, 2019 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    “I was right that impeachment was warranted after Mueller.”—Jean Henry

    The view she has from the inside of the black hole must be amazing…

  17. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 24, 2019 at 1:20 pm | Permalink

    Nothing about this phony impeachment is standard. Using fake whistleblowers and an opaque, secretive process to manufacture something, anything just to get this guy out of here? Dafuq yo. Ever since the President published the Ukraine phone call the whistleblower is just…gone. Schiff can just make shit up is what you are saying and you believe it no matter what. That’s because you have to believe anything that could possibly be twisted in such a way to appear to support your ideas. That’s all you’ve got.

    Do you have any idea what is looming over these creeps’ heads right now? The investigations??? That’s why they are willing to risk this weak, desperate bid. They need him out now because they know they are fucked.

  18. Meta
    Posted October 24, 2019 at 1:26 pm | Permalink

    NYT: “Republicans Grind Impeachment Inquiry to Halt as Evidence Mounts Against Trump”

    House Republicans ground the impeachment inquiry to a halt for hours on Wednesday, staging a protest at the Capitol that sowed chaos and delayed a crucial deposition as they sought to deflect the spotlight from the revelations the investigation has unearthed about President Trump.

    Chanting “Let us in! Let us in!” about two dozen Republican members of the House pushed past Capitol Police officers to enter the secure rooms of the House Intelligence Committee, where impeachment investigators have been conducting private interviews that have painted a damaging picture of the president’s behavior.

    They refused to leave, and the standoff in the normally hushed corridors was marked by shouting matches between Republican and Democratic lawmakers and an appearance by the House sergeant-at-arms, the top law enforcement official in the chamber.

    After waiting about five hours for the protest to break up, Laura K. Cooper, the deputy assistant secretary of defense for Russia, Ukraine and Eurasia, answered questions for more than three hours before the panel wrapped up its work for the day.

    “This is a Soviet-style process,” declared Representative Steve Scalise, the No. 2 House Republican. “It should not be allowed in the United States of America. Every member of Congress ought to be allowed in that room. The press ought to be allowed in that room.”

    Roughly a quarter of House Republicans are members of the three panels conducting the inquiry, and have been allowed to participate in the private depositions and interviews from the start. But most of the Republicans who rushed the secure rooms on Wednesday morning are not committee members.

    The protest came a day after the most damning testimony yet about Mr. Trump’s pressure campaign to enlist Ukraine to smear his political rivals, which unfolded even as Mr. Trump met privately at the White House with ultraconservative Republicans who promised aggressive measures to defend him against the impeachment onslaught.

    In his testimony on Tuesday, William B. Taylor Jr., the top American diplomat in Kiev, effectively confirmed Democrats’ main accusation against Mr. Trump: that the president withheld military aid from Ukraine in a quid pro quo effort to pressure that country’s leader to incriminate former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. and smear other Democrats.

    Read more:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/23/us/politics/republicans-storm-trump-impeachment-hearing.html

  19. Jean Henry
    Posted October 24, 2019 at 2:20 pm | Permalink

    HW– you have limited time left to produce the long promised October surprise. No I have no idea “what is looming over these creeps’ heads right now? The investigations???” because it’s all bullshit. You have been fed the most improbable scenario ever and continue to believe it.

    None of us believe it. The only way you will ever make your case to us is when the sealed cases are opened (if ever) and prove you have been right all along. None of your other bullshit makes you or Qanon believable to us. You are wasting your time here. If and when that happens, I will as promised hand you $1000 and lick your boots publicly.

    Until then just STFU with your nonsense. Please, It’s really annoying and a waste of time and energy for everyone..

  20. iRobert
    Posted October 24, 2019 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

    Jean, is it okay for me to point out their beady eyes?

  21. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 24, 2019 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

    When did I ever say October Surprise? You suck; you have to make up lies just like the establishment dems.

    There are multiple major investigations of your peeps about to drop. I don’t know why you would act like it’s a theory or some shit. You make no sense. You have to say shut the fuck up and not be able to make me. I make you do it all the time simple using reason. You and all you suckers drop it like it’s hot every time I drop a bomb on you which is about whenever I want. It happens over and over and over and nothing you say ever ever works out.

  22. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 24, 2019 at 6:10 pm | Permalink

    *simply*

  23. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 24, 2019 at 7:44 pm | Permalink

    “The long promised October surprise” did not ring a bell with me. Is this another example of Jean taking some piece of info from one place and mis-applying to another? It seems like an endlessly repeated pattern of BS.

  24. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 24, 2019 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

    On cue the Durham review of the Russia investigation is now officially a criminal investigation.

  25. Jean Henry
    Posted October 24, 2019 at 9:44 pm | Permalink

    Bill Barr should go to jail.

  26. Jean Henry
    Posted October 24, 2019 at 9:45 pm | Permalink

    You are right HW. It was EOS who was talking about it.

  27. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 25, 2019 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    So don’t tell me to shut the fuck up.

  28. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 25, 2019 at 10:23 am | Permalink

    Clapper scurred

    https://twitter.com/AmyKremer/status/1187689872540274689

  29. Jean Henry
    Posted October 25, 2019 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    Oh you deserved a STFU about 2 years ago HW. No apologies. Read what you say to me some time. As I said when those sealed warrants produce mass arrests of a Dom cabal, I will pay you $1000 and lick your boots in public. The deal stands and was not contingent on a time frame. You were unwilling to counter wager me which tells me you know somewhere down deep that you have been an utter fool and have limited confidence in your assertions.

    I stand by my statement that you should STFU until those warrants are unsealed and produce the result you have predicted.

    I know you won’t do that but it feels good to say it.

    Away, you starvelling, you elf-skin, you dried neat’s-tongue, bull’s-pizzle, you stock-fish! Away, you three-inch fool!
    Away you most notable coward, you infinite and endless liar, you hourly promise breaker, and owner of no one good quality!

  30. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 25, 2019 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    You guys: “STFU!”

    Us: “ Keep talking!”

    I wonder if there might be some hidden truth behind our different chosen approaches?

  31. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 25, 2019 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    Here is the problem with that line of thinking: I know how to be wrong and admit it. That’s all I will have to do if it goes your way. You on the other hand cannot admit to being wrong because if you are ever wrong you might be always wrong and that is unthinkable.

    I would never promise to lick anyone’s boots in any situation so why would I pledge to do it if I am wrong just because you are dumb enough to do it? Those reports are looming and one of them just metamorphosized into a criminal investigation with subpoena power and grand jury empanelment power to Durham.

    You are going to be immortalized on youtube handing over the cash and getting down to hahaha lick my boot (sick!) Whether I allow your lips to actually foul my footwear will be my call. I’m going to add screenshots of some the horrible things you have said to provide context.

  32. Jean Henry
    Posted October 25, 2019 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

    HW– I admit I’m wrong all the time. When was the last time you conceded a point?

    I’m not certain I’m right; I’m certain you are wrong about the sealed warrants. There’s a difference.

    I don’t know what those warrants are for but there are a million more plausible explanations than yours.

  33. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 25, 2019 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    When was the last time you proved me wrong would be a better question. Why should I concede points I presented a better argument for?

  34. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 25, 2019 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

    “I’m certain you are wrong”

    I think you are going to find that nothing is truly certain. I have a level of confidence tempered by the reality that it could all go South in an instant or turn out to be an incredible illusion. This basic difference in outlook tells a lot. I think your reality tunnel is about to get caved in while mine keeps expanding. Time will tell who is correct.

  35. Jean Henry
    Posted October 25, 2019 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

    stuff that actually matters: https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/tally-children-split-border-tops-5400-count-66516532

  36. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 25, 2019 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    Yeah, it doesn’t matter. Better to talk about something else. Too bad it was Obama era policies that created an incentive to use children to improve their chance of being released if caught. There was a huge increase in minors, many of whom were not related to the adults they were with.

  37. iRobert
    Posted October 31, 2019 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

    Poor Katie Hill didn’t anticipate her moral degeneracy would be used against her in politics. What a moron.

  38. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 31, 2019 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

    Aloha iRobert, was she really being moral degenerate? Morality is what the majority believe at any one time, is she really immoral by that standard? Or just being driven out of office because of her personal folibilies, which would easily be dismissed if she had been a man. Though please when will Democrats stop having nudies taken of themselves, it is not like their bodies are all that great.

  39. iRobert
    Posted October 31, 2019 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

    Of course there’s a double standard, DD. And only a complete moron and moral degenerate wouldn’t anticipate that.

  40. iRobert
    Posted October 31, 2019 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    Speaking of that, DD; What was it that compelled you to have sex in public in front of hundreds or thousands of people?

  41. iRobert
    Posted October 31, 2019 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

    I’m assuming you were under the influence of mind altering substances. I’m getting the sense you’ve done a good bit of that sort of thing.

  42. Jean Henry
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    “moral degeneracy” — who talks like that anymore?

    “Hill stated in her speech that the photos of her “were taken without my knowledge, let alone my consent.” She has blamed her husband, whom she is divorcing, for the photos’ release. If her allegations prove true, she will be far from alone: As the law professors Mary Anne Franks and Danielle Citron (a colleague of mine) write, the release of sensitive images or video against the will of the person depicted “is often a form of domestic violence.” ”

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/10/katie-hill-and-many-victims-revenge-porn/601198/

  43. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    That’s not porn. No one is jerking off to that. The problem is she was paying her aide to let her sit on her face all the time. What’s up with the tat by the way?

  44. iRobert
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 8:45 am | Permalink

    JH: (“moral degeneracy” — who talks like that anymore?)

    Not many since it’s become the norm, as DD points out.

    Katie Hill is too dumb to realize the people she parters up with are a reflection of her own moral degeneracy. Most people these days are too dumb to realize that. They’re too ready to pretend they’re a victim. It’s an offense to genuine victims.

  45. iRobert
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    This may come as a shock to some, but the people one associates with are not assigned by some outside force. They are chosen by the individual who associates with them. I know this could be a very disturbing revelation to many.

  46. Lynne
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    Yeah, that is the problem. That she is too dumb to realize that men are scumbags who take photos without consent which they then will use for revenge porn later. *rolls eyes* FWIW, it has little to do with intelligence. Most women are trusting until they have a specific reason not to be. That so many women already have learned not to trust men by the time they reach adulthood is not at all a good thing.

    I don’t blame her for resigning but I would rather have seen the house investigation play out.

  47. dogmatic dolt
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    Aloha iRobert, it was young love. We had been up for 38 hours or more setting up speakers platforms etc. We were free (much more then than now) and knew it. We could not think of any better way to celebrate the 200th. birthday of our nation. I am sure we smoked some weed, but nothing stronger.

  48. Jean Henry
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    God you all are just gross. Do you even understand what revenge porn means? And of course you are gross and moralistic at the same time, because that’s how it works.

    (Except you, Lynne of course. On point.)

  49. Jean Henry
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    “This may come as a shock to some, but the people one associates with are not assigned by some outside force. They are chosen by the individual who associates with them.” —
    blaming the victim again.

    Are you entirely sure you aren’t a ‘personal responsibility’ social conservative iRobert.

    Or is it just when it comes to women. What was that bit about Kavanaugh– oh that drunken sexual assault happens all the time so it’s no big deal.

    The dudes are not responsible for their behavior, but the women are responsible for hanging out with those dudes.

    Got it.

  50. iRobert
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    If Katie Hill is too dumb to see all that coming, she’s way too dumb to survive in politics, or represent the interests of a half-million other citizens. We have enough dumb degenerates (the men) in Congress. We don’t need to increase those numbers. Anyone with even the slightest moral foundation wants to see the number of moral degenerates and morons in government reduced. though I realize it may be a majority of the population that doesn’t care.

  51. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 11:13 am | Permalink

    “drunken sexual assault happens all the time so it’s no big deal.”

    You make everything up to prop up your stance. No one said that. Blasey lied no doubt. Her story had no evidence. No one supported her including her supposed witness friend and Blasey’s own family.

  52. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 11:15 am | Permalink

    Is Katie Hill white power or a biker or just thinks the Iron Cross is a rad pelvic tat or what?

  53. iRobert
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    JH: “The dudes are not responsible for their behavior, but the women are responsible for hanging out with those dudes.”

    Everyone is responsible for their behavior. You are an asshole for misrepresenting everything everyone else here says, for example. It’s behavior you chose, Jean.

  54. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    Imagine if a repub of any sex/color had an iron cross tat under their clothes. You would go insane. A dem though; that’s no problem.

  55. iRobert
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 11:23 am | Permalink

    JH: “Are you entirely sure you aren’t a ‘personal responsibility’ social conservative iRobert.”

    Apparently, Jean equates morality with conservationism. Does it make you feel better to tell yourself your immorality is just an aspect of your political philosophy, and that of others with whom you share political philosophy?

    I see your philosophy seems to shift depending on which social media outlet you are commenting. You have no consistency, Jean.

  56. iRobert
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 11:26 am | Permalink

    JH: “Or is it just when it comes to women. What was that bit about Kavanaugh– oh that drunken sexual assault happens all the time so it’s no big deal.”

    Jean, do you ever wonder why you have to make up false statements like this one. Does it ever occur to you it is because you have a sick and sadistic personality?

  57. iRobert
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    JH,

    Why does AnnArbor.com get Jean’s Doctor Jekyll, and we get stuck with Jean’s Mister Hyde?

  58. Jean Henry
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

    Because you are a sexist prick in denial, iRobert.

    I’m no different on any platform than I am here. That this comments section is becoming worse than MLIVE’s really says something.

  59. Jean Henry
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

    I did not hear about the iron cross tattoo, HW. Is that sure or was it photoshopped in?

  60. Jean Henry
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 1:29 pm | Permalink

    iRobert– it may have been someone else here who said putting a dick in someone’s face happens all the time. And maybe another who said that drunken sex happens all the time in high school to dismiss Blasey-Ford’s allegations. I can’t remember and don’t have time to look it up. None of that means you aren’t full on sexist on the regular, not to mention morally uptight. I can’t distinguish you from conservatives on matters of gender politics.That should worry you.

  61. Jean Henry
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

    Iron Cross tattoo allegation sounds false.

    “The Daily Mail, which has labeled a “generally unreliable” publication by Wikipedia editors, published a photo Thursday purporting to show a nude Hill holding a bong. The image was published just days after the conservative blog RedState published a different nude photo of Hill.
    Attorneys representing Hill threatened to take legal action against The Daily Mail if the image was not taken down.

    “This letter serves as notice that civil and criminal laws prohibit the publication of images of the character you have posted and that our client is prepared to take all necessary means to protect her rights and to protect herself from an unprecedented, unwarranted and extraordinary offensive invasion of personal privacy,” they wrote in a letter to the outlet.”

  62. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    I don’t see where her lawyers say it is doctored. Hard to believe they would publish such a thing. That would definitely be defamation. It’s amazing to see you grasping at straws to defend your stance in life. It doesn’t matter what the reality is: you are going to deny it if it is destructive to your Belief System (B.S.)

  63. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    ” it may have been someone else here who said putting a dick in someone’s face happens all the time. And maybe another who said that drunken sex happens all the time in high school to dismiss Blasey-Ford’s allegations. I can’t remember and don’t have time to look it up. ”

    ‘Cause you are full of shit. You are so full of it you aren’t satisfied by lying in general. You lie about what other people write to defame them. That’s worse than a liar.

  64. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

    I think Jean’s posts would improve if she was able to remember one thing. She needs to remember that her memory is unreliable. For someone who has admitted to having a poor memory she does seem to try to prop up her bullshitty little arguments with vague memories of tidbits from the past that actually never happened.

    The funny thing is if you go back and read the Kavanaugh comments you will see Lynne making the same bullshitty little argument that DD Is not credible about global warming and that he threw women and POC’s under the bus by not voting for Hillary.

    Jesus.

  65. Jean Henry
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    FF– everyone’s memory is highly fallible. Not just mine. I should be more diligent about looking back and making sure I’m attributing things correctly, but I write here in between things, not languorously and lugubriously like you. If I am wrong, I will be corrected. And that’s totally fine with me. Your cries of liar are ridiculous, because lying implies intent to mislead. And that’s not what I’m doing. This is the comment section of a local blog. It’s not important. I’m just thinking things through here. It’s actually relaxing for me as I have a restless mind. It would totally ruin it for me if I took it that seriously.

    None of you deserve the respect of any of my time and attention. That’s not why I’m here.

    And yes, Lynne has made that point many times. Do you have any idea how often you repeat yourself FF? We all do. We are all here for weird compulsive reasons of our own. I understand mine. Why are you hear FF?

  66. Jean Henry
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

    here*

  67. Jean Henry
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    HW I neglected the link. “Hill’s attorneys are also taking issue with DailyMail.com for what they say is falsely claiming that the tattoo Hill has in one of the photos is a “Nazi-era Iron Cross”. https://reclaimthenet.org/katie-hill-nude-nazi-imagery-cease-and-desist/

  68. Jean Henry
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

    I’m curious iRobert if you believe abused women are responsible for their abuse because they chose the wrong person to have a relationship with?

    How about date rape? Are those women responsible for hanging out with the wrong partners?

    Is Katie Hill’s estranged husband without fault for sending out private pictures questionably obtained to her opponent’s campaign manager for public release?

    Is he say more or less responsible than Katie Hill for this situation blowing up in the way that it did? What’s your calculus of each person’s relative ‘moral degeneracy” on a scale of 1-10. 1 being morally pure and 10 being utterly without moral standards?

    https://www.mediaite.com/politics/reporter-behind-story-on-katie-hill-affair-worked-for-republican-candidates-who-ran-against-hill/

  69. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

    Pretty sure the symbol goes back to WWI at least so it would not necessarily be nazi-era it’s true. I think you would go insane if a repub had it regardless.

  70. dogmatic dolt
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, I am sick of Democrats being ashamed of their sexuality. Katie did nothing wrong. She should have told folks to take a hike. “What I do in my bedroom is my business, what I do for pleasure is none of your fucking business.” No evidence of illegality, but in true Democratic fashion she buckles. Al Franken was an equally gutless Dem. If you don’t have the courage to stand up to Republicans attacks and smear merchants, what fucking good are you.

    Let’s be honest. If you are going to be in Congress, everything you ever did is going to come under scrutiny, and anything that can will be used against you. Have the courage of standing up for who you are. As the saying goes, if you can’t stand the heat, don’t go in the kitchen.

  71. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

    [Loud abrupt buzzer sound]

    https://www.npr.org/2019/10/24/773025596/first-lawmaker-to-trigger-new-metoo-era-conduct-rules-is-a-female-freshman

  72. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 7:24 pm | Permalink

    I don’t understand why you people don’t respond to that kind of thing. It would be a lot easier in the long run to be like “okay I was wrong about that” right away. Instead you just play it off and pretend you didn’t get schooled.

  73. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 9:32 pm | Permalink

    Jean’s enjoys making stuff in her free time?

    Jean is just thinking through things here by constructing arguments that depend on her not only making things up but also depend on other people not double checking to see if she is making stuff up?

    What are your other hobbies?

  74. iRobert
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    JH: “I’m curious iRobert if you believe abused women are responsible for their abuse because they chose the wrong person to have a relationship with?”

    Obviously not.

    I have a similar question for you, Jean…
    Are you still abusing your children?

  75. iRobert
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 10:09 pm | Permalink

    JH: “Is Katie Hill’s estranged husband without fault for sending out private pictures questionably obtained to her opponent’s campaign manager for public release?”

    Without fault? What a dumb question. His actions are reprehensible and criminal, obviously.

    Also, it might be good for you to note, nobody elected him to anything, so there is no issue of public trust. He’s just another sick asshole in a culture of many sick assholes.

  76. iRobert
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 10:13 pm | Permalink

    DD: “Let’s be honest. If you are going to be in Congress, everything you ever did is going to come under scrutiny, and anything that can will be used against you. Have the courage of standing up for who you are. As the saying goes, if you can’t stand the heat, don’t go in the kitchen.”

    Duh! That was my fucking point in the first place, DD. WTF?

  77. iRobert
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 6:12 am | Permalink

    By the way, HW is right that people here would be going crazy with accusations if a Republican had that iron cross tattoo. Why is that so hard for people here to admit?

  78. iRobert
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:40 am | Permalink

    I knew I could get our resident perverts riled up by talking about what a stupid degenerate Katie Hill is. I’m just grooming the perverts here as assets.

  79. Jean Henry
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    iRobert– When Mark went nuts about how Donald Trumo Jr (??) held his jacket and that ok sign Trump flashed all the time was a white power sign, I said it was bullshit.

    If a GOP Senator supported white supremacist policies AND had a real white supremacist tattoo, of course it would be worth talking about. No matter the party. But Katie Hill appears to have neither.

    If we had replied yes ‘we would get upset if any politician had an iron cross tattoo’ (true and reasonable), then that would seem to be a concession that Katie Hill has one, which she does not. Why would we arm HW that way. His phishing was obvious.

    PS I defended Melania’s stupid jacket as ill-advised but not more, too.

  80. Jean Henry
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

    JH: “I’m curious iRobert if you believe abused women are responsible for their abuse because they chose the wrong person to have a relationship with?”
    Obviously not. — iRobert

    Also iRobert: “Katie Hill is too dumb to realize the people she parters up with are a reflection of her own moral degeneracy. Most people these days are too dumb to realize that. They’re too ready to pretend they’re a victim. It’s an offense to genuine victims.”

    Also iRobert: “This may come as a shock to some, but the people one associates with are not assigned by some outside force. They are chosen by the individual who associates with them. I know this could be a very disturbing revelation to many.”

  81. Jean Henry
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

    iRobert you answered my first two questions– the ones for which the answers were predictable but you did not answer the followup, which was the one that’s a mystery:

    Is [Katie Hill’s estranged husband] say more or less responsible than Katie Hill for this situation blowing up in the way that it did? What’s your calculus of each person’s relative ‘moral degeneracy” on a scale of 1-10. 1 being morally pure and 10 being utterly without moral standards?”

  82. iRobert
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

    So, Jean, you are saying you believe that there is an equivelance between…

    …People being responsible for their decisions of with whom they associate…

    – and –

    People being guilty of the abuse they suffer from those with whom they associate.

    Those are not equivenlant statements. Your brain needs an update.

  83. Jean Henry
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    I see you think her husband is not worthy of public scrutiny because he is not a public servant, but I don’t see how his behavior is not relevant to your assessment of Katie Hill’s responsibility in this.

    Unlike DD, I’m fine with her resigning. In light of the new #metoo driven code of conduct, I don’t see how she had a choice. Is it ideal, no? The code seems to lack a sense of proportion. But this is where we are now in the process of figuring out how to end sexual abuse at all scales. It’s a restrictive and regressive place to be, but many of us felt that context long before it was acknowledged.

    Metoo is not the enemy of sexual freedom or the source of repression; Rape culture is. When consent becomes the norm, we will find a lot more leeway in these situations. Safety allows for experimentation.

    FWIW, I don’t have a problem with people having sex with their superiors or direct reports. I think the whole things should be formalized: They both sign a private HR contract saying the relationship is consensual and that no punitive or promotional measures would result (under penalty if so), then they can have at it.

  84. iRobert
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

    This may be a first. I agree with every assertion you make in your last comment.

  85. Jean Henry
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

    iRobert– the logic of the former is often used to legitimize the latter. This is how it works in courts of law and with police.and in the court of public opinion.

    Surely you have seen the personal responsibility trop within conservative anti-tax/nanny state/ welfare queen narratives?

    The logic and language you employed is often used within rape culture to blame the victims of abuse for their own abuse and to excuse their abusers. You can’t recognize it only because you are not paying attention.

  86. iRobert
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

    JH: “I see you think her husband is not worthy of public scrutiny because he is not a public servant, but I don’t see how his behavior is not relevant to your assessment of Katie Hill’s responsibility in this.”

    She brings him into the position of being in any way associated to public office and the responsibility that goes with it. She is the public’s only connection to that freak of a husband. Same goes for any public official.

    I actually feel a lot more sympathy for Katie Hill than I do for men who conduct themselves with such lack of thought or sense of any morality. I feel far more compassion for women and any situation they may be in, than I do for any man in a same or similar situation. I’m very sexist in that way.

  87. iRobert
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 2:53 pm | Permalink

    JH: “iRobert– the logic of the former is often used to legitimize the latter. This is how it works in courts of law and with police.and in the court of public opinion.”

    That’s not quite true. The law clearly differnciates. Police officers who don’t understand law may not understand the difference. Public opinion is almost always utterly illogical.

    Obviously, some judges are backward and too dumb not to confuse this. A pretty good number of police are too. It may be a majority of jurors who are too dumb to understand the difference. The general public is stupid beyond help.

  88. iRobert
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    JH: “Surely you have seen the personal responsibility trop within conservative anti-tax/nanny state/ welfare queen narratives?”

    Yes, I have seen it in all it’s prevalence and magnitude. These things are based on that same failure to differentiate that you display in your misrepresentations. They are doing essentially what you do, and apparently for just about the same reason.

  89. iRobert
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

    JH: “The logic and language you employed is often used within rape culture to blame the victims of abuse for their own abuse and to excuse their abusers. You can’t recognize it only because you are not paying attention.”

    Leaps in logic are not logic. They are not logical. Leaps in logic are illogical.

    Leaps in logic are made by people too dumb to realize what they’re doing, or people with malicious and deceptive intent.

    I think I’ve demonstrated I pay a great deal of attention. Ive watched you make almost continuous accusations which are based on similar leaps of logic. These allow you to justify in your own mind the misrepresentations you make almost constantly.

    You seem to want to fight almost everybody and almost all the time. It seems a conpulsion with you. The misrepresentations you commit based on your leaps in logic are fuel for your need to fight.

  90. Jean Henry
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

    iRobert– I assure you I am not the only one who would see your comments about this and about social justice in general as I do. You can choose to believe I’m a one off if it suits you.

    You are regularly stunned at things I say which are widely accepted, even when I provide serious respected scholarship supporting my points etc etc. I’m not sure why you can’t see the connections I make; they aren’t novel, but I think you may want to spend some more time on forums not dominated by old white people. They are hard to find, but they exist.

    Good luck.

    Yes I like to argue with people. This is discourse; its not personal. It’s how people learn and develop their own perspectives. I have always loved to argue and I don’t see it as anger or a problem. Every person on this forum shares that trait, but you pathologies it in me. And Lynne. Again with the double standards.

    I will admit I have come to dislike you iRobert and many other regulars here. That’s unusual for me and is probably a sign I need to leave this forum. I’ve simply had too much repetitive nonsense and denial. It bores me and makes me sloppy in my retorts.

    You know what they say, “Absence makes the heart grow fonder… so I never want to see you again.”

  91. iRobert
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

    JH: “iRobert– I assure you I am not the only one who would see your comments about this and about social justice in general as I do. You can choose to believe I’m a one off if it suits you.”

    And again you are ‘responding’ to something I never said. In fact I am sure many, of bot nost people, can’t make the distinction I pointedly out. You are certainly far from alone in your misunderstanding.

  92. iRobert
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    JH: “You are regularly stunned at things I say which are widely accepted, even when I provide serious respected scholarship supporting my points etc etc. I’m not sure why you can’t see the connections I make; they aren’t novel, but I think you may want to spend some more time on forums not dominated by old white people. They are hard to find, but they exist.”

    I’m not stunned that someone is saying the things you do. I’m stunned that a person as well read and apparently as intelligent as you are continue to linger in such nonsensical thinking. At times you seem very capable of questioning yourself. At others you seem helplessly commutes to certain irrational thoughts.

  93. iRobert
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    JH: “Yes I like to argue with people. This is discourse; its not personal. It’s how people learn and develop their own perspectives. I have always loved to argue and I don’t see it as anger or a problem. Every person on this forum shares that trait, but you pathologies it in me. And Lynne. Again with the double standards.”

    Lynne is definitely not as prone to fighting as you or I am. I can see you enjoy arguing and the benefits which it brings in one’s understanding. But I think you have a conpulsion to be combative and to present things as a fight. You try to rehash your fight with Bob and other Sanders supporters frequently. You attempt to fight with HW, FF and EOS regularly too. You even got very contentious with Flower Grampa, of all people. But we also all watched you falsely accuse Mark of asking inappropriate questions of your daughter, seeming to be bent on a confrontation here with him. It of course turned out you didn’t just have no grounds for your accusations toward Mark, but actually we’re responsible yourself for the questions you were suggesting were innapripriate. But it’s not just this blog where you seem to be always picking fights. You pick fights with Pat Lesco with regard to Ann Arbor city politics. HW’s one real-world experience is that you were being that way as well. And his account is consistent with what another person who frequented the Jefferson Market at that time has said to me. You don’t work well with others, Jean. That is very apparent.

    Having said all that, I have no problem admitting that I myself have a very similar combative nature. You and I both know it’s not a good thing. It isn’t for either of us.

  94. Sad
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

    Mayor Pete could be a little more combative.

    Just a little.

    I like how he’s mostly nice.

  95. Sad
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    I like wrestling.

    One of these days HW and I will wrestle.

    In tiny little shorts.

  96. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

    How is that not an iron fucking cross?

  97. Sad
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:23 pm | Permalink

    If she’s sitting on your face it’s a butterfly .

  98. iRobert
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 10:01 pm | Permalink

    I was disappointed not to see a pentagram.

  99. Jean Henry
    Posted November 3, 2019 at 7:35 am | Permalink

    iRobert– my engagement in local politics, specifically affordable housing, climate action and small business support, is useful work and it runs deep. This forum however is mostly absurd and useless, though not Mark’s contribution. A lot of my old neighbors and supporters at the market do not like my political perspective locally, and I suspect their comment to you relates to that. They feel betrayed. My old staff are my core friend group still. I married two of them and hung out with another last night, so I think saying I cannot work with others is questionable. The market was very successful on its own terms and full of regulars. That doesn’t happen in businesses run by people who behave as you characterize me. Pat Lesko, whom you mention, meets all the criteria you describe. She uses Sock Puppets all the time to post on Social Media and I suspect Flower Gramps was one of them. My health is good, my family and friends are solid, stable and devoted to one another. I have a lot of failings but being full voiced on social media about matters of inequity is not one of them. I’m not certain I am right ever. You are certain I am wrong and that logic bears you out. So anyone who questions your perspective must be wrong in the head. You might want to check yourself on that, iRobert.

    Some perspective on Pat Lesko. This is what an obsessively angry person looks like: https://annarborobserver.com/articles/satan_for_mayor__.html#.Xb7JRi2ZPfY

  100. Jean Henry
    Posted November 3, 2019 at 7:45 am | Permalink

    More on Lesko and her sentient for assuming multiple identities. https://pridesource.com/article/42482/

  101. Jean Henry
    Posted November 3, 2019 at 7:45 am | Permalink

    penchant*

  102. Flower Grandpa
    Posted November 3, 2019 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    Come help us plan for Ann Arbor’s wonderful new downtown space.

    All our welcome. Together we will carve out a space for equity, peace and love.

    The downtown branch of the Ann Arbor Public Library. November 6th 6 – o’clocity.

    https://www.michigandaily.com/section/ann-arbor/center-city-task-force-talks-upcoming-open-house-online-and-public-engagement

  103. iRobert
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    Hopefully, Gaetz pulls some more rediculous stunts now that the open hearings have begun.

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