Michael Cohen gets three years in prison, and the National Enquirer flips, telling investigators that they paid off Karen McDougal for Trump with the intention of helping him win the election

I just found that the 1979 Peter Sellers film Being There is available on Amazon Prime, so this is going to be brief. I just want to note two things before I sign-off for the night.

First, Michael Cohen, the guy who posted the following to Twitter back during the last presidential campaign, was sentenced this morning to serve three years in prison for crimes committed at the behest of Donald Trump. With tears in his eyes, the former tough guy sobbed, “My weakness could be characterized as a blind loyalty to Donald Trump.”

For those of you who don’t follow the news closely, Hillary Clinton, having committed no crimes, is still a free woman. In fact, she was just spotted dancing to Bollywood music with John Kerry… Living well, as they say, is the best revenge… But, with that said, one suspects she must be taking some pleasure in watching the wheels of justice slowly grind these second-rate hoodlums into dust.

Oh, and it’s worth noting that Cohen wasn’t just Trump’s “fixer,” and the man who, on the President’s behalf, arranged for the illegal pay-off of both a porn star and a Playboy model in violation of campaign finance law in hopes of changing the course of the election. He was also a deputy finance chair of the Republican National Committee.

Second, it was announced today that senior officials at AMI (American Media Inc.), the parent company of the National Enquirer and Globe supermarket tabloids, have admitted to prosecutors that they made the $150,000 payment to former Playboy model Karen McDougal in “concert with” the Trump campaign “in order to ensure that the woman did not publicize damaging allegations about the candidate before the 2016 presidential election.” This, it’s worth pointing out, directly contradicts Donald Trump’s claim that the pay-off had nothing to do with the election.

So, yeah, AMI, which is owned by Trump’s friend David Pecker, didn’t just help Trump by printing dozens of fake headlines about Clinton’s health, and supposed crimes that she’d committed, but they set out on his behalf to illegally influence the outcome of the election, buying McDougal’s story with the promise of running it, and then ensuring that it would never see the light of day.

What does all of this mean? Well, it means that Donald Trump, once he leaves office, will definitely be facing prison time. This is a certainty. We now have sworn testimony that he directed Michael Cohen to violate campaign finance law by paying off multiple women with the intention of influencing the election, and Cohen, his co-conspirator, has already been sentenced to prison time for his role. Trump, no doubt, will argue that these pay-offs had nothing whatsoever to do with the election, and, therefore, shouldn’t be considered a campaign expense. He’ll say that he was just trying to spare his family the pain of publicly facing the fact that, while his new wife was at home nursing their infant son, he was having unprotected anal sex with the star of Operation Desert Stormy. We now have both Pecker and Cohen, however, saying that was not the intention. No, the intention was to win the election.

This entry was posted in Politics, Uncategorized and tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. Post a comment or leave a trackback: Trackback URL.

244 Comments

  1. Senator Richard Blumenthal
    Posted December 12, 2018 at 11:39 pm | Permalink

    No longer just Cohen versus Trump. AMI, the parent company of the National Enquirer, backs Cohen on the record. We now have multiple witnesses saying Trump committed a felony to secure his election.

  2. EOS
    Posted December 13, 2018 at 5:48 am | Permalink

    If It was a felony for Trump to use his own money to pay others to prevent tabloid stories, why wasn’t Cohen charged for his participation in this felony? Instead he was charged with lying, personal tax evasion, and accepting excessive corporate donations. There’s no way they could convict either Cohen or Trump for campaign violations for a payment made with Trump’s own money.

  3. Anonymous
    Posted December 13, 2018 at 7:26 am | Permalink

    If we were to follow EOS logic, then Al Capone only made a large accounting error.

  4. Sad
    Posted December 13, 2018 at 7:44 am | Permalink

    And Hillary Clinton and Obama are the most devious criminals in the history of the world.

  5. EOS
    Posted December 13, 2018 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    No one yet has been charged or has confessed to any crime that involved Trump. They’ve used the power of a large Special Prosecutor team to aggressively pursue individual issues in the hopes that the accused would offer up dirt on Trump to lessen the sentences on their individual crimes. But if Trump didn’t do anything illegal, then it is just an abuse of power by the Federal government. And the individuals are confessing under duress as they are threatened with bankruptcy and personal destruction if they don’t. How did the USA get to this point?

  6. wobblie
    Posted December 13, 2018 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    EOS—the answer to your question is Whitewater, Ken Starr and impeachment over a blow job. You know your bible–you reap what you sow.
    If Trump didn’t welch on every deal he ever made, it probably wouldn’t have been a problem, but since he stuck the $150000 hush money payment on Pecker, and Pecker admits he made the payment to influence the election–it became a campaign contribution.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50754.htm

  7. Max
    Posted December 13, 2018 at 9:33 am | Permalink

    White collar crimes can be difficult to prove as criminal intent and state of mind has to be proven. Trump’s rampant use of Twitter is damaging his own case. He and his GOP backers in Congress are down to the ‘crimes are okay, we all commit crimes’ defense. Yeah, how did the USA get to this point? This is only part of Trump’s worries, campaign finance violations. Conspiracy against the United States, perjury, and obstruction of justice are very real possibilities for impeachment and prosecution. And then there’s his business dealings. His shady, shady businesses that are going to be dragged into this.

  8. Donald Trump weighs in
    Posted December 13, 2018 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    I never directed Michael Cohen to break the law. He was a lawyer and he is supposed to know the law. It is called “advice of counsel,” and a lawyer has great liability if a mistake is made. That is why they get paid. Despite that many campaign finance lawyers have strongly……

    ….stated that I did nothing wrong with respect to campaign finance laws, if they even apply, because this was not campaign finance. Cohen was guilty on many charges unrelated to me, but he plead to two campaign charges which were not criminal and of which he probably was not…

  9. Susan Simpson by proxy
    Posted December 13, 2018 at 10:22 am | Permalink

    I would like to step back and point out how WILD it it that the president is tweeting, “I directed my attorney to pay hush money just weeks before the election to the porn star I cheated on my wife with,” and Republicans are responding, “See, the president is vindicated!”

  10. wobblie
    Posted December 13, 2018 at 10:32 am | Permalink

    There are some people in Government with integrity. Easy to forget as we are 18 years into a senseless war based on lies.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/beneath-the-official-lies-and-sordid-story-leading-up-to-the-war-on-iraq-karen-kwiatkowskis-sam-adams-award-acceptance-speech/5662372

  11. Hyberion Warlord.
    Posted December 13, 2018 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    “No one yet has been charged or has confessed to any crime that involved Trump.”

    Silly rabbit, the indictments are secret! All 5000 of them!

  12. Media Matters
    Posted December 13, 2018 at 11:08 am | Permalink

    CNN pro-Trump contributor: As a celebrity, Trump can’t be expected to know campaign finance laws.

    https://twitter.com/mmfa/status/1073245179371511817?s=21

  13. Jean Henry
    Posted December 13, 2018 at 11:38 am | Permalink

    For those interested in the whole Qanon sealed indictment thing. Some explanation of what the CT’s see and what exists: https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/sealed-indictments-qanon-conspiracy/

  14. Hyborian Pudlord
    Posted December 13, 2018 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    If the secret service is outside the door, is it really “unprotected anal sex?”

  15. Hyborian Warlord.
    Posted December 13, 2018 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    I am NOT a lord of pud!!

  16. Bob
    Posted December 13, 2018 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    In America you are free to pull yourself up by your own pudstraps

  17. EOS
    Posted December 13, 2018 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

    Why would campaign finance violations be a fine for established politicians who should know better, and a felony for someone who is new to politics and following his lawyers advice? (If it even is a campaign finance issue?)

    Waiting for Tom Fitton (Judicial Watch) to begin testimony before the House Oversight Committee today. It was supposed to be live-streamed.

  18. EOS
    Posted December 13, 2018 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

    Oh wait, it just started.

    https://oversight.house.gov/hearing/oversight-of-nonprofit-organizations-a-case-study-on-the-clinton-foundation/

  19. Jean Henry
    Posted December 13, 2018 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    Holy bullshit, EOS. You’re amazing. I literally hear conservative spin on the radio or TV and then you post it on MM. Like immediately.

  20. EOS
    Posted December 13, 2018 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

    It was just acknowledged in the House Committee hearing that there is an ongoing FBI criminal investigation into the Clinton Foundation.

  21. Jean Henry
    Posted December 13, 2018 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    Yes we all know that already. The Senate called for it. Shocking to have Senate Republicans calling for an investigation of the Clintons, isn’t it?

  22. Jean Henry
    Posted December 13, 2018 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    I should say that it would not surprise me at all if Bill were playing fast and loose with Foundation finances for his own personal gain. But the Clinton Foundation does good work. I’ve seen it. Whereas the Trump Foundation only ever existed for the benefit of its founder.

    All that said, if there is malfeasance shown, I hope it;s discovered and punished.

  23. EOS
    Posted December 13, 2018 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

    Yes – including those in the Obama Justice Department and IRS that tried to cover it up. Potentially more than 60% of Foundation funds used for purposes other than what was authorized – almost half a billion dollars.

  24. Jean Henry
    Posted December 13, 2018 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    We’ll see about that. My experience with te Clinton foundation (received a grant) and that of others I know involved with them is that they were total taskmasters in terms of meeting targets etc. Now that may have been to fund the lifestyles of the rich and famous on the other end. I don’t know, but it felt like a very mission-committed organization. I’m open to the idea that any non-profit is fucked up financially. Many are in my experience. Sorruot is another matter.

  25. Jean Henry
    Posted December 13, 2018 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    *corrupt (sigh)

  26. John Brown
    Posted December 13, 2018 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

    Bomb threats Nationwide. Agent Orange treason army starting to get panicked?

    Reminder that Pootin most likely has the keys to our electric grid.

  27. Eel
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 7:25 am | Permalink

    I think this is what they call moving the goalposts, right!

    “Nobody got killed, nobody got robbed… This was not a big crime,” Giuliani told The Daily Beast, re alleged violations of campaign finance law.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-jared-kushner-replaced-michael-cohen-as-trumps-national-enquirer-connection?ref=home

  28. John Brown
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 7:33 am | Permalink

    Bomb threat to Hospital in Soo Michigan linked to Ruskies (and therefore Agent Orange). Clearly a cyber war is underway. We may get the witness the first US President executed for treason before this is done. Nice job traitors.

    https://www.sootoday.com/local-news/threat-at-sault-michigan-hospital-1159173

  29. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 8:17 am | Permalink

    “Yes – including those in the Obama Justice Department and IRS that tried to cover it up. Potentially more than 60% of Foundation funds used for purposes other than what was authorized – almost half a billion dollars.”

    The financial investigators testified at least 400 million and up to 2.5. billion in CF money is liable to be taxed.

    They also noted the FBI field office in Little Rock has an ongoing investigation into the CF.

  30. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 8:22 am | Permalink

    “We’ll see about that. My experience with te Clinton foundation (received a grant)”

    You actually got money from them? Oh, shit! You are bound to be caught up in this investigation, if only as a footnote. Hopefully you are on Santa’s naughty list.

  31. Jean Henry
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 9:00 am | Permalink

    I did not get.a grant, the company I worked for did. As did millions of other organizations. Because the Clinton Foundation is broad reaching and effective in its work (which is largely about partnering with and funding other organizations/work v doing the work themselves). They will not all be caught up in the web. You are an idiot with very little understanding of anything at all.

  32. Jean Henry
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    I wonder who if anyone ever got any funding from the Trump foundation?

  33. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    That’s funny because the Hillary claimed the reason they are so effective is because they do the vast majority of their work “in house.” If you think they are so effective why don’t you ask the people of Haiti if they agree? Or just look it up…

  34. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 9:06 am | Permalink

    So in trying to defend the CF you are saying the exact opposite as Hillary…about the CF. How can it not be starting to dawn on you you are the mega fucking idiot of all time?

  35. Jean Henry
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 9:08 am | Permalink

    They manage the work in house. And they are tough. They don’t do the work in house.

    Which is more than the Trump foundation did: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/23/nyregion/trump-foundation-lawsuit-new-york.html

  36. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    https://www.factcheck.org/2015/06/where-does-clinton-foundation-money-go/

    “Fiorina and others are referring only to the amount donated by the Clinton Foundation to outside charities, ignoring the fact that most of the Clinton Foundation’s charitable work is performed in-house. ”

    Now it’s official: by your own standard you are an idiot.

  37. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 9:28 am | Permalink

    All that money ought to add up to an incredible amount of this kind of stuff.

    Asked for some examples of the work it performs itself, the Clinton Foundation listed these:

    Clinton Development Initiative staff in Africa train rural farmers and help them get access to seeds, equipment and markets for their crops.

    Clinton Climate Initiative staff help governments in Africa and the Caribbean region with reforestation efforts, and in island nations to help develop renewable energy projects.

    Staff at the Clinton Health Access Initiative, an independent, affiliated entity, work in dozens of nations to lower the cost of HIV/AIDS medicine, scale up pediatric AIDS treatment and promote treatment of diarrhea through life-saving Zinc/ORS treatment.

    Clinton Health Matters staff work with local governments and businesses in the United States to develop wellness and physical activity plans.

  38. Jean Henry
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 9:40 am | Permalink

    Yes we worked with Clinton Foundation staff in implementing the grant. They are very hands on in the management of the funding. They run programs. Those programs partner with other organizations. They are a hybrid between a straight charity and a foundation. They are not purely one or the other. They have many people working for them and they also make a lot of grants. And they partner with even more organizations. They are huge. very little of that work is under scrutiny in the investigation. Sounds like Bill C paid for a few too many trips with foundation money. There is also the old pay to play thing which looks fishy as hell I would agree but has already been investigated many many times. It looks morally compromised but not straight up corrupt. so far they haven’t found a smoking gun. We’ll see. Kind of amazing they haven’t. They sure have been trying hard and for a long time. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/28/hillary-clinton-honest-transparency-jill-abramson

  39. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 9:43 am | Permalink

    They are very far from straight. The way it looks to an idiot does not matter. Up to 2.5 billion in tax liability…

  40. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 9:45 am | Permalink

    Pay to play means bribery. Face it: HRC was selling influence to foreign governments out of the State Department. There will be no denying it soon so you might as well get ahead of it.

  41. Jean Henry
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 9:46 am | Permalink

    I should say (for anyone who gives a shit) that the way it worked for us is that we applied for funds for a program designed by the Clinton foundation that we implemented in our organization with the help of a local non-profit. Many hands involved. Normal grant applications would be seeking funding for work that we designed ourselves that fit the CF mission.

    That’s the critical distinction.

  42. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    No one said they gave no grants. They did say their self they do the vast majority in-house and that is why they are so effective. How can you live with the cognitive dissonance?

  43. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 10:00 am | Permalink

    This is only what they reported to the IRS. Imagine how much more “work” they were doing in the shadows. Up to 2.5 billion in tax liability…

    https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-Clinton-Foundation-money-goes-to-real-and-actual-charities-that-are-not-controlled-by-the-Clintons

    “Between 2009 and 2012, the Clinton Foundation raised over $500 million dollars according to a review of IRS documents by The Federalist (2012, 2011, 2010, 2009, 2008). A measly 15 percent of that, or $75 million, went towards programmatic grants. More than $25 million went to fund travel expenses. Nearly $110 million went toward employee salaries and benefits. And a whopping $290 million during that period — nearly 60 percent of all money raised — was classified merely as “other expenses.”

  44. Hyborian Warlord.
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    You libtards rilly are beyond the derp. It’s complete hypocrisy to see things as shades of gray, when it is clearly in black and white. I am definitely for the whites. You’ll all pay the price of being not on my side, just you wait.

  45. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    Whoah, you are cooolll. You can say stuff that doesn’t matter and ape other people’s nicks!

  46. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    Somebody posting under the name Jean Henry said I am “bad at this game” so it must be true. I am not sure if I can take too many more “L’s”. It is starting to make me question myself.

    Who am I?

    Seriously though, I am figuring out more stuff about the nihilistic and cowardly left everyday.

    MM.com really is the gift that keeps giving.

  47. Jean Henry
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    HW– What fake HW said strikes at the heart of your rhetorical strategy (absolutism and simple-minded reduction trumping complexity) and makes very clear why you always think you win when the reality is nuanced beyond your capacity to understand.

    FF– I find it amazing that you think, given these times and the trajectory of the GOP, that we bleeding heart, snowflake liberals are the nihilists.

  48. Jean Henry
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    PS FF– “MM.com really is the gift that keeps giving.” So the disruption and chaos making from fake posters only improved your experience after all! See– I win! Woot!

  49. John Brown
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    Hey Real HW, do y0u think Mueller is going to indict, himself? Is this why Shillary is in India, avoiding the Grand Jury?

    https://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/secret-grand-jury-hearing-reportedly-tied-mueller-forces-officials-clear-entire

  50. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    On the one hand, I want you guys to get better; but on the other hand, the optimist in me is happy to gather more evidence as you guys seem all too willing to display the obscene aspects of your characters.

    It’s not just nihilism. It is cowardly-nihilism. You need to hold the two aspects together.

    What does a persons imagined definition of those millions of “GOP people”, as if you could capture such a thing, have to do with how you ought to define yourself? There are GOP nihilists too, but what does that have to do with your expressions of your nihilism?

  51. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

    Could be Byrne vs. Clinton Foundation.

    https://imgur.com/fHowEX9

  52. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

    “HW– What fake HW said strikes at the heart of your rhetorical strategy (absolutism and simple-minded reduction trumping complexity) and makes very clear why you always think you win when the reality is nuanced beyond your capacity to understand.”

    Jean, I just smoked you again. Your claim was the opposite of reality. It should be getting clearer to you that my understanding is so far beyond yours you simply haven’t been able to see it. I’m running laps around you but every time you forget and think I am behind while I am about to pass you again. Orange Man will be fine for the millionth time and your people are going to bite it hard.

  53. Jeffery St. Clair by proxi
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

    “One of the weirdest things I’ve seen at a Trump rally are people wearing Kill the Deep State t-shirts cheering madly when Trump brags about passing the “biggest defense budget in history”

    This is the idiocy of Trumpers on display

  54. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    It’s patriots in the military that have co-ordinated the plan to take down the Deep State. That is who “drafted” Donald Trump to be President for this reason. The plan is being carried out with military precision. When you find out how big it is you will believe me.

  55. anonimal
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    Flakey and Frosted learns all about the nihilistic left because he chats on a forum where 5 liberals comment. Congrata-fucking-lations. You must lurv coming on here to confirm what you already think, rather than engage with anyone on something substantial. You are an intellectual coward, its pathetic and sad. How about you lay out your actual perspective on something, from soup to nuts, so you can have an actual conversation?

    Your comments are just “See what this liberal posted, that’s why I’m better than all of you”. Your worse than a nihlist, your Jerry Lundergaard. You’re pathetic and a little bad, but you’ve teamed up with something evil that you don’t understand. Sad!

  56. anonimal
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    Also, we should take a break from politics to rank Cohen Brother movies

  57. wobblie
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    FF, EOS and HW here is a real fun video on “Russiagate” that I think you will get a kick out of. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdHtAzFNwjE

  58. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    Follow the money. Another excellent article by Sara Carter. It is heating up no doubt. Act a fool all you like because like I said it just makes you look and the blog look bad. It’s like “Don’t waste any time trying to argue. Somehow he always seems to win. Just try your best to irritate him. Then we can be like SEE??? He’s irritable!!! OMG!!!”

    https://saraacarter.com/financial-bounty-hunters-testify-clinton-foundation-operated-as-foreign-agent/

    The Clinton Foundation operated as a foreign agent ‘early in its life’ and ‘throughout it’s existence’ and did not operate as a 501c3 charitable foundation as required by its and is not entitled to its status as a nonprofit, alleged two highly qualified forensic investigators, accompanied by three other investigators, said in explosive testimony Thursday to the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee.

  59. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    Anonimal,

    I try to take care to categorize characteristics displayed by people in a way that avoids generalization and bigotry. When I say “nihilistic and cowardly left” I am not intending that to mean people who are liberal in their views are nihilistic and cowardly. I am trying to point to a class within a class. I hold many liberal views and try to avoid nihilism and cowardice.

    Like most people I have many outlets for gathering information. I am on multiple forums but I don’t bother with twitter or Facebook. This forum is a gem! Despite your criticism I find mm.com to be very educational!

    I like your Jerry comment. Sure, sometimes I am like Jerry. Sometimes like Ruthie. Sometimes like Buschemi’s character. Of the three I would like to strive to be most like Ruth.

    I have only seen three of the Cohen Brother’s movies. Do you have any suggestions? Watching some of the better Cohen Bros movies is on my list of things to do.

    (I am pretty sure you are more judgmental of the posters her than I am.)

  60. Anonymous
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    “Like most people I have many outlets for gathering information. I am on multiple forums but I don’t bother with twitter or Facebook. This forum is a gem! Despite your criticism I find mm.com to be very educational!”

    I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if your “education” doesn’t really help you much beyond here. These credits don’t translate to real life benefits.

  61. Jean Henry
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    But the emails…

    Benghazi…

    Anonimal– I have been watching a bunch of old Coen Brothers movies with my son, so I am up for the rankings. There were a few I missed that are stupid (Intolerable Cruelties). I rather liked Buster Scruggs (on netflix now) mostly for the use of language and mental perturbations the likes of which we see here on MM.com all the time. The last story was really really very good. Blood Simple is still my favorite. I hadn’t seen it since it was in theaters (1985) and I was shacking up on school break with an old beau in a residential ‘hotel’ in the Tenderloin of SF. Back when I thought poverty was romantic. I watched it with my son and got to see his growing engagement and then surprise at the denouement.

    Big Lebowski is fine but not as good as many others. Total bro flick. Not worthy of the hype even by the Coen’s own accounting. Maybe just not enough women. I like the way the Cohen’s depict women when they give them enough time to flex out of stereotype.

    I always liked Bartleby Fink for its allusions to the other Bartleby and general embrace of the dark as well as typewriters. No one else liked it. Most of the Coen bros films can be tagged to some genre of classic novel rather than film. This is the lens through which to see them. In the Buster Scruggs that linkage is made explicit,

    Fargo is one we should all agree on. Excellent. Even more so because Garrison Keillor hated it so. In the end, we can only hope that all the creepy dudes masquerading as champions of decency, morality and civilized living will be taken out by the funny dark and brooding.

    I would like it if the Coen bros took on Huck Finn actually.

    My son still loves OBrother Where Art Thou best. Can’t blame him really. The Odyssey and the Mississippi. So maybe they already did their Huck Finn thing…

  62. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    Regarding laying things out soup to nuts. That is not going to work. I am in the middle of writing my 12th book and I just don’t have time at the moment.

    Just kidding. I don’t think that is how this works or how it ought to work. This is a conversation. This is not a defense of our dissertations. I offer my ideas when I feel like it. I will try to respond with my ideas when asked about them…I feel good about that…This is the second time you have suggested I do more (?) elsewhere (?) ….I think it is odd for you to have an opinion about who or where I, or anyone else, ought to engage in conversation. I happen to live in his area. I also talk to whoever my physical neighbors happen to be. Is that a complete waste of time? I don’t understand your point and I don’t understand why you would try to make your point while also offending the mm.com community. It’s like you think you are insulting me by insulting the people I choose to talk with and whom I often find myself in disaggrement with. Such a strange angle of approach you have chosen for the second time now.

  63. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    Jean,

    Did you see True Grit? I think it would be a great movie to watch with your son or daughter (if you have one). Not sure how it compares to the others I have not seen but it seemed as good as Fargo to me.

  64. wobblie
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

    Was just checking out their filmography. I was surprised by how many I have not seen. Fargo I think is great, and JH’s comments on O Brother Where Art Thou are right on. True Grit was ok, but I like the John Wayne, Kim Darby and Glenn Campbell’s version better.

    another fun video on “Russiagate”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emxUdrVVR8s

  65. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    Anonymous,

    I believe our acts and speech have meaning and a ripple effect out into the world but I also go out of my way to avoid nihilistic impulses.

  66. Jean Henry
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    FF– If that’s true maybe you should reconsider your defenses of HW and white supremacist protestors in CVille.

  67. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

    Jean,

    1) Please, please, please quote me on CVille, on anything I said that was problematic in your mind and we can discuss it. I would love to discuss it!

    2) Worry about yourself. There were times, a long time ago, when I would read something HW would say and think “Wow, that is inappropriate thing to say and only a jerk would say something like that” but then I would read what he was responding to, written mostly by you and your buddy, and I would realize his crude responses were always justified. Always! You and your buddy are the ones who acted like pigs. You even suggested it was some sort of intelligent strategy. Lol. You should be ashamed of your past behavior! Hell, you should be ashamed of recent behavior…

    Forget all that though… Give me a quote where I defended white supremacy and we can talk about it. Go for it.

    Here is a prediction: No quote from Jean.

  68. Jean Henry
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

    Yeah, FF. You’re not worth the time.
    Feel free to go back and revisit. My memory is clear. So is my conscience.

    Ps I wasn’t talking about the consequence of defending HW against insult but the consequence of defending his worldview. Same with your comments on CVille.

  69. Jean Henry
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

    “The thing I found most hilarious/disturbing was the footage was being run on a loop, on cnn, while a man talked about how it is important that violence on the part of the white nationalists must be prosecuted….

    I have no idea if this instance is representative of who is provoking the violence in other cases, but man (!)it sure seems like there is room to criticize both sides, no?”


    I was trying to say that, in my opinion, the right is demolishing the left in terms of messaging. HW’s “jobs not mobs” video he posted is not just “talking points”, it is powerful messaging that will ring true to a lot of Americans. The left’s “resistance” stance is a failure, I think. The left needs to change their approach. The left needs self reflection, self criticism, and disavowal of their own darker side. The left has lost touch with its instinct toward truth. People are walking in another direction because they cannot stand the smell of the left’s bullshit. The only revolution John Brown has a chance to have is a personal revolution, which might possibly come about by staring into the mirror. It won’t happen however, because the left is way too far gone, or “unhinged”, so to speak.

    [OK I JUST THREW THAT IN THERE TO GLOAT, FF. IT’S NOT TAKING THE SIDES OF WHITE SUPREMACISTS; IT’S JUST COUNSELING THE LEFT NOT TO RESIST THEM… FOR POLITICAL REASONS. AND IT’S ALSO BEEN PROVEN VERY VERY WRONG.]

    Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 20, 2018 at 11:21 am | Permalink
    In terms of messaging the left undermines itself constantly.

    Search: YouTube: “9/11 widow is harassed by antifa in Portland”.

    How do you think this garbage plays to most of America.

    PS. I am not gloating. I have been warning you guys about this stuff for over 2 years. Wake the fuck up!”

    “One person trying to bomb some people does not wipe out my observations. Check out extreme Nazi leaning white supremacist type right wing websites. Even the most extreme are denouncing the bomb threat and giving reasons why violence or the threat of violence hurts their cause. On the left we just hear denial and lack of awareness that they have a problem. Check out the article Jean offered. The author identified a truth about the “resist” movement and then formed it as a problem to be sidestepped by placing blame on the other: “Trump made is do it” is not good enough. You guys can do better.”

    “The total violence on one side or the other is going to be hard to determine. At bottom you and I just have different senses of which side is at fault at a higher rate.”

    FF IS SURE HE DOES NOT SHOW PREFERENCE FOR WHITE SUPREMACISTS. HE BELIEVES HE’S EQUITABLE BUT ALSO PRETTY DARN SURE THE LEFT IS MORE VIOLENT. AND MORE AT FAULT. AND JUST PLAIN WRONG.

    I’ll let the peanut gallery decide what they think about his balance and reason and civility.

    (I should add that the reality that white supremacists were convicted while DeAndre Harris was acquitted by juries in courts of law does not sway FF’s beliefs drawn from watching one video loop from one angle for a few seconds on loop endlessly. He has mentioned several times watching videos of violent leftists on loop. He’s certain they reveal the truth and if only we would enter his obsessions, we would see it too. Because he’s fair and balanced… And reasoned.

    That’s it, FF. Not honoring your requests again. You never back up what you say against me with documentation. Just another double standard.

  70. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

    Gee, I wonder how I was able to predict that Jean would not have the time to look up and offer a quote of me defending white supremacy in the Cville thread?

    Let me help you save some time. I really want to help you to back-up the stuff you say. Almost all of the Cville discussion is in the “Spencer” thread. Type “Spencer” in the search field and it should take you straight to the thread.

    Look at this as an opportunity to test whether or not you actually have a good memory. Hell, when you see what is and what is not in that thread you can even view it as opportunity to question whether or not you are deserving of a “clear conscience” status.

    Remembering things that never happened is still remembering, I suppose. I can’t help you trace your memories of things that did not happen but I will tell you when you trace your memories-of-things-that-never-happened back to their original location don’t forget to notice the blinking neon sign above the door that reads: FANTASYLAND.

    I just don’t know why you would make this sort of stuff up?

    Just kidding. I know why you make this stuff up. You don’t know though. Try to figure it out. Time is running out.

  71. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    Jean,

    You are so very dishonest!

    Or, the other possibility is that you have some sort of mental disability.

    You think that you are proving something because I engaged in conversations on THE TOPICS that involve the subjects of “white supremacy”, “violence”, “antifa” and “media perceptions”?

    Your homework assignment was to backup your claim that I offer defenses for white supremacy by offering a quote where I defend white supremacy.

    I do think the left is a disaster and I offer reasons. I do believe Antifa instigates violence and I offer video evidence. I do believe in free-speech. I do think the MSM has an obvious left leaning bias.

    What does any of that have to do with a defense for white supremacy?

    May I ask: Which of the quotes you offered are, in your mind, the best example of me defending white supremacy? I don’t see anything.

    Nice attempt at shotgun method though Jean.

  72. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    Your take is so weird Jean.

    I am reading through the quotes that you provided. 3 of the 4 are quotes in which I am critical of the left’s messaging. Translation: The left should fix their messaging. In order to fix their messaging they need to have some self-awareness. One might argue I am, in an indirect way, trying to help the left by criticizing its messaging. Either way: What the hell does that have to do with defending white supremacy?

    It is so idiotic and you take the time to express that you are gloating. Lol.

  73. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

    True Grit is a good movie by the Cohen Brothers Jean.

    You will find that you share nothing in common with the main character of the film, Jean.

  74. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

    I almost forgot to ask Jean:

    What were Deandre Harris and Corey Long doing, off camera, at 5:33 of the Durst is the worst video?

  75. EOS
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

    Don’t worry FF,

    No one on this site believes that you support white supremacy. Jean thinks if you repeat an accusation enough times it becomes reality. In a way, its like old alcoholics who fabricate stories to fill in the gaps of their memories.

  76. Jean Henry
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 8:47 pm | Permalink

    We live in a white supremacist culture FF and EOS. You have so internalized the bias, you don;t even recognize it.

    FF– That was a whole lot of response to my speedy little list of quotes, I’m afraid I don;t have time to reply. I also really fucking hate the paternalistic tone of calling asking me to subtsnatiate something homework.

    I would point up again that you never substantiate your comments against others. You simply deflect by hammering away at others. No wonder you have so much feeling for HW.

    I really can’t be bothered with dealing with any of you anymore. It’s just so fucking boring.

  77. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 8:49 pm | Permalink

    Thank you, EOS.

    I do believe there is a memory issue at play.

    Unfortunately, I think there is evidence that beyond the memory issue, which is forgivable, there is a sinister side of Jean’s character that somehow allows her to freely practice tactics of deception without feelings any remorse.

  78. Jean Henry
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 8:49 pm | Permalink

    “What were Deandre Harris and Corey Long doing, off camera, at 5:33 of the Durst is the worst video?” I don’t know; ask the jury. Or better yet, review the court transcripts. I cant be bothered.

  79. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 9:36 pm | Permalink

    Jean,

    I am asking you to report on what YOU saw Deandre Harris and Corey Long doing, off Camera, at 5:33 of the Durst is the worst video. If I understand you correctly, you seem to think I am seeing something (that is not there) because of my bias for white supremacy, no? It is your little proof that I am exhibiting bias, no? It is a fine, in theory, but the problem is that you seem to refuse to report on what you saw. What if you look now at the evidence and as it turns out we see the same thing? What would that mean? Wouldn’t it mean that you are the one who had the bias, because you formed a judgment about my bias, based on your mis-assumption that I am seeing something that is not there?

  80. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 9:45 pm | Permalink

    I am sorry you are bored Jean.

    I would have thought that accusing someone of defending white supremacy while simultaneously failing to provide evidence to support your accusation would be an exciting thing to do on a Friday night.

    You find it boring though.

    Interesting.

  81. Jean Henry
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 9:45 pm | Permalink

    I’m saying your perspective is as limited has that camera angle and loop.

  82. Jean Henry
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 9:46 pm | Permalink

    I’m sick with bronchitis, watching bad movies or I most certainly wouldn’t be here.

  83. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 9:56 pm | Permalink

    The accusation that “FF defends white supremacy” has now devolved into “FF has a limited perspective”.

    I can live with that.

  84. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 14, 2018 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    There are multiple point of view videos that lead up to the parking lot incident. I watched them all. There are several different videos that show what Corey Long and Deandre Harris were doing off camera at 5:33 of the Durst is the worst video. I provided you with the video that was the shortest and seemed to provide the least limited perspective. It is a limited perspective, as all perspectives are limited, but I am curious what did you see from that limited perspective?

  85. Jean Henry
    Posted December 15, 2018 at 9:31 am | Permalink

    FF– YOU ARE PROVING MY POINT. How much energy did you put into considering the guilt of White Supremacists v DeAndre Harris? You become impassioned and energized by the idea that white people are being victimized. I’m not going down your rabbit hole. I would never assume I can understand more about these events from video footage than was discovered in trial. Given that the justice system is demonstrably biased against people of color and in favor of white defendants, when its conclusion run the other direction, against that bias, I tend to believe they were conclusive.

    I should add that your inclination to order directives and ‘assign homework’ at those with whom you are engaged in debate is a non-winner. You seem to think if they don’t follow your orders, you have won. A non response is not a victory.

  86. Jean Henry
    Posted December 15, 2018 at 9:36 am | Permalink

    “The accusation that “FF defends white supremacy” has now devolved into “FF has a limited perspective”.”
    — Both are still true. My position has not devolved. Each statement was stand alone in response to something you said.

    Limited perspectives are the substance of bias and internalized bias and denial are the essential stuff of supporting white supremacy.

  87. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 15, 2018 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    It has to be mental illness. Your accusations are ridiculous, Jean. All the more so because you are a proud racist, sexist, bigot, etc. but you think you are the opposite. You call that “I know you are but what am I?” because you have to or else reality sets in and the illusion crumbles.

  88. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 15, 2018 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    I am glad you think it is weird too, HW.

    I woke up asking myself “why do I bother” because a lot of the time these “conversations” I am having with Jean really don’t feel like conversations, rather it always feels more like I am chasing Bozo The Clown around in a maze of mirrors inside the funhouse at Jean’s Fantasyland Emporium.

  89. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 15, 2018 at 11:23 am | Permalink

    At first I just wanted to talk. I assumed they would be capable of that. Now I just like seeing them get embarrassed. Seeing them cry will be great.

  90. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 15, 2018 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    Jean,

    If I defend white supremacy, as you suggest, then show me where I am defending white supremacy.

    (If) I’m a bad bad bad
    Gimme the loot
    Gimme the loot
    Gimme the loot

  91. Anonymous
    Posted December 15, 2018 at 11:37 am | Permalink

    Guys, this isn’t Ypsi Tinder (yet).

  92. Bob
    Posted December 15, 2018 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    Hyborian Warlord.
    Posted December 13, 2018 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    I am NOT a lord of pud!!

  93. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 15, 2018 at 11:53 am | Permalink

    Yes , Anonymous, who never says strange shit constantly. people on a political online forum, agreeing that evidence should accompany an accusation, is exactly like people trying to get laid via a casual sex app.

  94. Anonymous
    Posted December 15, 2018 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

    How about a Meetup for the mutual admiration society? You did say that you enjoyed meeting your neighbors. Wouldn’t it be better to commiserate in person about the decline of whatever it is you are unhappy about? Healthier too.

  95. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 15, 2018 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

    Commiserate about the decline of what you are unhappy about. That wouldn’t make a lot of sense, would it? Did I finally drive you off the deep end? You don’t know what is up and what is down.

  96. Anonymous
    Posted December 15, 2018 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

    NextDoor? Angie’s list? Craigslist? Tumblr? I’m just trying to get you in touch with each other. Beer summit?

  97. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 15, 2018 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

    That’s cool, thanks! I like this strategy of trying to irritate me. Pretty sure it irritates everyone so that is cool. It’s like “Oh, that Bark Baynard site. I hate that place. It’s full of the most irritating pieces of crap.”

  98. Hyborian Warlord.
    Posted December 15, 2018 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    I’m owning all of you. If it wasn’t for me, this would be an intellectual wasteland.

  99. Sad
    Posted December 15, 2018 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

    You’re so fond of yourself.

  100. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 15, 2018 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

    Talking to me or Dirty Peter?

  101. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 15, 2018 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

    I feel happy and healthy, Anonymous. Where do you get your strange ideas?

  102. Jean Henry
    Posted December 15, 2018 at 11:18 pm | Permalink

    “I’m owning all of you. If it wasn’t for me, this would be an intellectual wasteland.”

    OMFG

    FF– I’m proud to cause you confusion. I feel zero confusion about your positions. Or, rather, your rhetorical defenses. They are quite clear to me. I have some homework for you… Look up what White Supremacy actually means. Then look at the outcomes by race and try to come up with any other reason for the imbalance than systemic racism. Then consider whether any of those ideas (including a meritocracy) contain within them some assumption of white superiority. Thanks.

    Talk to you when you’re done.

  103. Jean Henry
    Posted December 15, 2018 at 11:21 pm | Permalink

    FF and HW, both white males, would like everyone to know that we do not live in a sexist or racist country… near as they can tell. being white and male.

  104. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 15, 2018 at 11:53 pm | Permalink

    Jean you truly are a disaster. It’s time to take the Bozo the clown suit off and and stop spending so much time in the house of mirrors. You are just coming off as creepy and weird at this point.

    “Systemic racism is an obvious fact.” –FF

  105. Jean Henry
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 12:36 am | Permalink

    So then you agree we live in a white supremacist country?

    It’s really not too much of a stretch then to imagine oneself as being part of that system, benefiting personally from it and internalizing some of its concepts. right?

    That is what white supremacy is. Not terribly complicated. Like the patriarchy; it exists deep within our culture and will take many generations to undo.

  106. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 2:02 am | Permalink

    We live in a world and country where more powerful people have power over less powerful people. Generally, the most powerful people in our country are individuals who belong, in some combination, to the classes of white, male, straight, and wealthy. We have systems in place and systems being proposed that function to preserve the power for people without regard to individual merit but rather merely because an individual belongs, by luck, to one of the dominant classes. These types of systems and proposed systems are unjust. One unjust system of belief involves the belief that white people are superior to non-white people and therefore white people OUGHT to possess more power–that is, what I call “white supremacy”. I do not defend white supremacy because I think it leads to injustice on a basis of untruths.

    It is highly likely you and I have different opinions about how to combat the injustices and extinguish the lies which allow for the continued existence of white supremacy. However, a difference of opinion on methods of combating evil should not be an indication to you that those people with different strategies are wrapped up in the evil you are trying to battle. On the other hand, proudly announcing you are part of the fight against an evil does not mean that your strategies are necessarily steeped in goodness–in fact, it is entirely possible your strategies are completely bad in terms of their unintended consequences –but more to the point, it is entirely possible your strategies and approach are evil in and of themselves. I don’t believe in battling evil with lies. I believe in overcoming evil with Truth.

    Before we go farther with our discussion: You accused me of defending white supremacy. Can you offer a quote where I defended white supremacy?

  107. Jean Henry
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 7:06 am | Permalink

    I already did.

    “The total violence on one side or the other is going to be hard to determine. At bottom you and I just have different senses of which side is at fault at a higher rate.”

  108. Jean Henry
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 8:46 am | Permalink

    I should say I agree fundamentally with your point that belief that positive intention is no guarantee of positive outcome. I think I’ve stated that and demonstrated my commitment to that idea many times here. I am not ideological and I do not only go after conservative ideas. I go after strict ideology and black-white thinking at least as much as I go after racism and sexism. For me, racism and sexism are entrenched realities that require attention to overcome. It would be nice if a few civil rights laws and the principle that we should treat everyone equally would overcome racial inequity but it has not. We have no more equal a playing field statistically than we did when civil rights legislation passed. Some disparities are better but many have increased. It would be nice if (as many white males on the left here believe) overcoming economic inequity would solve the problem of racism in America. I disagree. And I think there’s plenty of evidence that doesn’t work, that people of color are routinely left behind while everyone else feels relief (see 2008 recession). I understand intellectually the appeal of fair treatment as guiding principle being the only way forward. (Reason and logic will take you there) You are however ignoring (and demonstrating regularly) the power of implicit bias– how deeply embedded in the subconscious and reflexive our bias towards people of color is. This is well established by…science… or at least social science. (It’s not that hard to test for bias by race) You are also ignoring the well-established pattern that (outside of racism) people with privilege will protect that advantage. If they believe they are, say, opposed to racism or ‘not a racist’ then they will twist their narrative (and logic) to justify protecting that privilege at a deficit to those already disadvantaged. The special sauce of confirmation bias is trying to mediate the cognitive dissonance between an urge to protect (fear) and one’s idea of oneself as fair, equitable and decent. This is in no way exclusive to the right. It’s very much in evidence among white liberals. The problem of racism in America, of white supremacy in America, is not a simple logic problem to fix. And it’s definitely not the sole fault of people who claim to be white supremacists but defending the innocence of white supremacists vigorously while obsessing about the culpability of a Black man and Anti-fascits generally is evidence of your commitment to protecting your own privilege at any cost. I know you think it’s about essential fairness, but it’s not. You are not a court of law. You can look beyond the individual’s responsibility. Please note that even court of law committed to equal treatment doesn’t produce equitable results. Logic and reason are fallible. They are especially fallible to implicit bias in a racist (white supremacist) culture. In such case what we call ‘logic and reason’ are simply justification. The tell is when you obsess on your ‘proof.’ When you can’t let go of your ‘proof.’ No shortage of evidence of that here.

    Yes, I could be wrong here. I don’t believe I am. Have you ever considered the possibility that you might be wrong, FF? Ever?

  109. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    You have bias against “POC” but you want to call people who for all you know have lived closely with POC their entire lives ‘white supremacists’…

  110. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 9:48 am | Permalink

    Jean,

    You are not being honest.

    The quote you highlighted as THE example of me defending “white supremacy” in general was actually a comment on the actual violence (and instigation) that is occurring currently at political rallies and protests in places like Portland and on College Campuses and it was a comment wrapped up in notions of political misters of the left in terms of messaging. I was not, in any way, shape, or form, trying to say that the actual and true forces operating against white supremacy are causing more violence than all of the violence of white supremacy broadly defined to include physical violence but also the subtle but real violences of oppression. Why would I say or think something so stupid? You think you are making sense but you are not making sense.

    Dumb argument, Jean.

  111. EOS
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 10:03 am | Permalink

    ‘She’s projecting. She feels superior to POC and fells less cognitive dissonance if she concludes everyone feels the same way as she does. She can’t treat everyone equally, but needs to categorize people in order to alter her interactions with them. Sad fact is she doesn’t see how her actions perpetuate racism and injustice. Nevertheless, she feels quite smug about it. She’s chasing an outcome that will never be achieved.

  112. EOS
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 10:07 am | Permalink

    I think she would be hard pressed to find anyone whom she does not feel superior to.

  113. Anonymous
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    You set a low bar.

  114. wobblie
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    A little exercise for those who are convinced they are not racist or sexist. Sit in a group of all white men. Ask yourself how do I feel? Am I comfortable being with them and participating in their conversation. Now do the same with an all black male group. Do the same with an all female group. I am not talking two or three folks, but 8 or 10. If you can’t find groups of 8 or 10 to participate with, you might have a problem with race and sex. If you can, but find yourself uncomfortable you might have a problem with race and sex.

  115. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    I’ve done all that probably way more than most if not all of you and I’m pretty comfortable with everyone who is cool. I don’t see a pattern of any particular race or sex or anything being assholes. Some people here seem to see it that way but they say I am the one who is biased or way worse.

  116. Jean Henry
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    There are many actual tests of implicit bias out there. https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html

  117. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 12:01 pm | Permalink

    My response was lost in moderation so I bumped it.

    Jean,

    You are not being honest.

    The quote you highlighted as THE example of me defending “white supremacy” in general was actually a comment on the actual violence (and instigation) that is occurring currently at political rallies and protests in places like Portland and on College Campuses and it was a comment wrapped up in notions of political misters of the left in terms of messaging. I was not, in any way, shape, or form, trying to say that the actual and true forces operating against white supremacy are causing more violence than all of the violence of white supremacy broadly defined to include physical violence but also the subtle but real violences of oppression. Why would I say or think something so stupid? You think you are making sense but you are not making sense.

    Dumb argument, Jean.

  118. Jean Henry
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    https://www.pbs.org/video/independent-lens-implicit-bias-test/

  119. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

    oops, “mis-steps” not “misters”.

  120. Jean Henry
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 12:12 pm | Permalink

    https://www.pbs.org/video/pov-implicit-bias-peanut-butter-jelly-and-racism/

    To be clear I think we all have some degrees of implicit bias. I think that awareness is the antidote to correcting for it. I think FF demonstrated startling lack of self-awareness by placing so much energy on excusing white supremacists who beat up a Black man and finding fault in the Black man. Even after multiple juried court trials came to a different confusion. Even when all of those jurors are also subject to implicit bias and we know the justice system favors white defendants. My issue is not with the existence FF”s implicit bias but with his assertion that ‘reason’ alone can overcome bias and determines the truth. He spent a whole lot of time here arguing that white supremacists in CVille were less cuplable than a Black mam beaten half to death or other anti-fascists activists. That is biased thinking in defense of white supremacy. It’s not terribly complicated.

  121. Jean Henry
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    I may be dumb FF but I’m not dishonest. I believe what I’m saying. I’ve spent a lot of time examining this issue and reading about it. I’m ok with you thinking I’m dumb. The feeling is mutual.

  122. Jean Henry
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    Re my use of the term ‘white supremacy’ to refer to systemic and cultural racism: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/10/the-language-of-white-supremacy/542148/

  123. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

    Jean,

    Please offer the quote where I advocate “excusing white supremacists” violence. You really believe the stuff you say? Fine. I apologize for calling you dishonest. I should rephrase what I said: Jean is a very honest who also happens to be guilty of making stuff up constantly.

    I am not assigning homework on this one. You know what to do. Get back to us with a quote. No more bozo in a house of mirrors stuff today. I want a Quote or an apology. Nothing else.

  124. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    When have I asserted that “reason alone can overcome bias”?

    I don’t agree with that assertion at all. Why would I say it?

    Are you referring to when I said: “I don’t believe in battling evil with lies. I believe in overcoming evil with Truth.”? Truth is not necessarily tied to human logic, Jean. Everyone knows that. There can also be a sort of logic to peoples lies..Everyone knows that too.

    What are you talking about?

  125. verifyfirst
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

    “Hillary Clinton, having committed no crimes, is still a free woman”

    Tee hee. So for this MM statement from the post to be true, it would have to be true that:

    a). Everyone who commits a crime gets caught;
    b) Everyone who gets caught gets prosecuted;
    c). Everyone who is prosecuted is convicted;
    d). Everyone who is convicted is sent to jail.

    Cause that’s how it works alright……

    Why was Hillary attending the wedding of two squilionaires kids in India anyway? Was she paid? I know she and Bill attended the Donald’s wedding, but still…..

    Apparently the Bill and Hill paid speaking tour was a bomb…..

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/39194/bill-and-hillary-clinton-resort-using-groupon-sell-joseph-curl

  126. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

    “He spent a whole lot of time here arguing that white supremacists in CVille were less cuplable than a Black mam beaten half to death or other anti-fascists activists.That is biased thinking in defense of white supremacy. It’s not terribly complicated.”

    Crazy talk, Jean.

    Please offer a quote of me saying I think the people who beat Deandre Harris in the parking lot are not guilty of criminal behavior. Why would I say that? I don’t believe that at all. My Charlottesville commentary and research was an attempt to respond to Wobblie’s characterization of the violence in Charlottesville. Did you not notice in the CVille thread I asked a lot of questions but did not make many assertions? (like almost zero assertions.) I asked You, Wobblie and others what they saw in the moments Wobblie was commenting on. (I followed Wobblie’s lead.) My questions as to what was seen were met with silence. The silence was not too odd as I understand that not everyone wants to spend time analyzing video but what has been fascinating to me over the months is that the same people who explicitly refused to take a look at the spots in the video that I pointed out keep bringing up my research on CVille. I wonder why? Is there something inside of you that wants to confront your own obvious bias here? You assumed I said so many things and I just never said or thought…. I wonder what your mis-assumptions here are protecting. I wonder what your bias here is serving. I can’t be sure but it feels like there might be a little psychological self-preservation happening. I will have to think about it more but some of the things HW and EOS have said recently, with regard to how your mind might operate, might be a good place to start if you want to do a psychological inventory and analysis of your self.

    Wouldn’t it be weird, if, after your psychological analysis, of yourself, you found out that you made up all of these “lies” about me in an attempt to hold onto to a false -idea you have about yourself. Wouldn’t it be weird, if you found out that the “lies” you are telling yourself about others is a way for you to trick yourself into believing you are a better person than you actually are. Wouldn’t it be weird, if you found out that the “lies” you are telling yourself about me, here, in this discussion, are all subconscious attempts to allow yourself to continue to benefit from the goodies that white supremacy provides you, while simultaneously sidestepping the guilt you must feel!? Wouldn’t that all be so weird? :)

  127. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    (If) I’m a bad bad bad
    Gimme the loot
    Gimme the loot
    Gimme the loot

  128. wobblie
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

    HW, is so clueless. “I’ve done all that probably way more than most if not all of you and I’m pretty comfortable with everyone who is cool.” The other side of the question is–How did they think about you? They invite you back? Is it now part of your social/political life?

    Of course HW is the one who decides if “everyone is cool”–the definition of supremacy.

  129. Jean Henry
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

    FF– It’s interesting how you believe differing opinions are lies instead of different perspectives. Or madness! Just another lying ass crazy bitch! Woot! I have never accused you of lying or dishonesty or madness, FF. I don’t need to do that to make myself feel better about my political inclinations. I did say you defend white supremacists, and you have quite literally. And I provided evidence. Actually, you did. I just called it up. I did call HW mad because I think he is. I also do think you are an idiot, but, since the feeling is mutual, I see no harm in that. I’m not lying about it.

    I’m pretty earnest here. Too earnest maybe. I definitely give you all too much purchase. Just look how worked up you get when we start talking about racism and the right. I grew up with conservatives and I know their values and principles and I respect many of them. They should appeal to many people of color over liberalism, especially the more socially conservative pieces of that political perspective. You really need to start asking yourselves why it is that the right keeps losing the allegiance of people of color, even as their population grows in the US. Maybe you should spend your political energy figuring out how to politically appeal to them (serve them) rather than try to lock them out at the borders and lock them up in jail and keep them from voting. The right’s racial bias problem is so bad that it presents an existential crisis for the party within the next 20 years. You all should stop spending your energy attacking what I say in a defensive frenzy and take my critique in stride as counsel you might want to heed.

  130. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    The lies are to yourself Jean.

    I agree it is probably not intentional.

    You might be a decent person who is just doing what you need to do to get by.

    It’s ok. I accept your apology.

    :)

  131. Lucky Pierre
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    FF, what is the camera man’s buddy doing off camera at 4:20 of Daniel Duerst’s “BLM baboons” video? Which one you ask? Yup, just as I thought.

  132. Jean Henry
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    I really do t care what you think FF. You keep writing in a tone that suggests I do. You are almost as juvenile as HW really and possess many of the same rhetorical tendencies, but, while he is crude and juvenile, your juvenile tendencies are couched in the language of civility. You’re a silly silly man who supports a party committed to winning at any cost and that winning, increasingly, is dependent on appeals to bias and cruelty and pridefulness, lacking anything of substance to offer. You are one of them.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8ShZGHmT2EQ#menu

  133. Jean Henry
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

    FWIW I absolutely a knowledge that I am the beneficiary of white privilege and class privilege and a bunch of their privileges. I don’t feel shame about it. I don’t feel pride in it. It just is. I consider it a barrier to a full life. I think about it’s lomitations. I seek to mediate the distance between my experience and others. That’s always interesting but not easy. Sometimes it’s painful. I consider what privilege I have to be a tool. I have never been able to fully enjoy it. Or maximize its benefits. From a young age. That’s kind of a shame. (Does that count as shame) Never did marry a super rich dude like I was supposed to. So instead of enjoying the high life and maybe contributing meaningfully to creating change on a larger scale , I raise my kids, make a living, do the chores and talk to the likes of you…

  134. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

    “I am not ideological.”–JH

    That is good to hear because for a second there I thought maybe there was a little bit of ideology mixed in there with all the misassumption and mis-assignments of specific and pernicious ideologies onto others.

  135. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

    “I really don’t care what you think, FF.” –JH

    You believe you know what I think but you don’t care what I think. Ok then.

    I knew you did not know what I think when you told me what I think and it was not what I think. I knew you didn’t care what I think when I told you what I think and you told me that was not what I think.

  136. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

    “The other side of the question is–How did they think about you? They invite you back? Is it now part of your social/political life?”

    You don’t think black people for example would like me? It’s incredible what you assume without knowing hardly anything about someone…That’s hilarious what you said about someone deciding who they think is cool being ‘supremacist’.

  137. Jean Henry
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

    I don’t believe I know what you think, FF. I don’t care what you think.
    I never told you what you think. I told you what you said. I told you where you threw your attention and advocacy. I told you what you demonstrated.
    I also showed with the information re implicit bias how little people actually know about what they think, at least subconsciously.
    I also demonstrated how common implicit bias is. 75% of white people demonstrate implicit bias against Black men.
    I suggest you take the tests if you think I’m wrong.
    Just a little homework for you…

  138. Jean Henry
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

    FF– You have over and over again demonstrated here a double standard (and I have occasionally pointed it out) against the interests of people of color and women and in the interests of white men. There’s another word for that than double standard…

  139. Jean Henry
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 8:49 pm | Permalink

    Re Coen Brothers. I watched the Big Lebowski with the kid today. This bit had escaped my notice last time. I thought Flower Gramps might find the bit at :45 interesting.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjJhbnz8YX0

    The Dude abides and now he runs A2 politics.

  140. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 9:25 pm | Permalink

    Cue the circus music. Jean is in her clown suit again. Running around Fantasyland not realizing her pants are unbuttoned in the back and her ass is hanging out.

    Let me summarize Jean: You offered quotes in an attempt to provide evidence (at my request) to substantiate your fake as fuck claims. The problem is that the content of the quotes do not match-up with your fake as fuck claims at all. Not one little bit. Further more, I addressed your insanely ridiculous false-claims, head-on, within this thread by explaining that: 1) I believe in racism; 2) I believe racism is evil; 3) I believe White supremacy is evil; 4) I believe the white supremacists in CVille that beat up Deandre Harris are guilty of a crime and should be punished; 5) I believe that white supremacists, in general, should not be excused of the crimes they commit; 6) I believe that bias can not be combatted with reason alone–because duh.

    All 6 of these explanations, which are very real expressions of what I think, are direct responses to your goofy-ass, fake as fuck, phoney as boloney claims that I think otherwise.

    We know you like to make stuff up Jean. Your identity might depend upon it. The amazingly strange thing is how you seem to believe that you are able to hold onto your fantasyland fictions, when your claims are shown to be false, and still be able to avoid looking like Bozo.

    Nobody notices your ass hanging out, the red-ball on your nose, the size 27 shoes, and the curly red hair wig. You are fine, Jean. There is nothing to worry about. You look great.

  141. Jean Henry
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 9:36 pm | Permalink

    Thanks, FF. That was a fine rhetorical parry. You really outdid yourself there.
    Let me know the results of those Harvard implicit bias tests you take.

  142. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

    Regarding bias and the bias tests. At Lynne’s suggestion I took the Harvard test a couple of years ago. I think the test is measuring something but I really do not believe the test is measuring bias. I can’t remember the language of the results but it was something like “you show a very strong bias for (not against) people of color.”

    I didn’t want to tell you the results because I think they are meaningless. I don’t think anything should hinge on the test but you seem to believe something hinges on the bias test results so there you go.

    The double standard thing again…..What is your real point there? You are disappointed with me that I do not criticize Republicans at the same rate that I criticize Democrats? Shouldn’t you just worry about your own shit when you are being criticized about your shit?

    In all honesty part of me likes it when you harp on the double standard thing so often because it is just another piece of evidence in my mind that you (and perhaps many on the left) have an off-the charts authoritarian impulse. Think about it. Your double standard objection is just another layer of your authoritarian position that you are demonstrating in this argument.

    1) Jean tells me what I think despite me telling her I do not think the ways she thinks I think.
    2) I tell Jean how I feel about her after being told I think in a way that is different from the way I think and Jean responds by saying she does not care what I think.
    3) After explicitly addressing how I actually think, Jean does not bother to acknowledge how I think, (or how our thoughts are actually aligned) instead she expresses her wish that I would apply my thinking against one group more and against another group less, as if it is normal f0r Jean to have opinion about where, when and with whom I ought to apply my thoughts.

  143. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 16, 2018 at 11:00 pm | Permalink

    I should add I also did not want to tell you the results of me taking the bias test because I was assuming you just think I was lying anyway.

    Anyway, before the notion of bias turns into another “thing”. Let me just say I of course believe that we all have bias in different directions. I also think some people are more susceptible to bias than others. I’m not going to lie. I think you are someone who displays a lot more bias than the average person.

    I guess the nice way to say it is: Jean seems very pro-Jean.

    I am trying to be nice here. In a weird way my last statement feels like the most vicious statement of them all. Sorry. But tomorrow is a new day.

  144. iRobert
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 5:45 am | Permalink

    You have to admire Jean though. She’s shattering barriers and preconceived notions, about decency and dignity, among other things. She is incredibly dedicated to the thug life. You gotta respect that.

  145. Interested Observer
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 9:31 am | Permalink

    The Jean Genie

    https://youtu.be/BLbi6y4ktgc

  146. Lynne
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    FF, the test measures your implicit biases. They show you pictures and have you match them to words IIRC and then measure the amount of time it takes to make the matches.

    I don’t think you are lying about your results. My observation of you is that you are indifferent to racism and not that you are showing an implicit bias. That is a form of racism that I don’t believe is measured by the test although I would imagine that those who have stronger biases are more likely to not see the systemic racism in our society. That of course doesn’t mean that those without such an unconscious bias will be ‘woke’ as it were as you seem to demonstrate.

    If it makes you feel better, Jean isnt very good at examining her own biases either and I know from first hand experience that she doesn’t treat marginalized people well when they point it out to her. So she is the same as you. And me too. I don’t think anyone always does well when their biases are called out.

  147. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

    Lynne,

    I promised myself I would not post about this stuff today. I am not planning on checking the site again today, after I post this note, so I apologize ahead of time but I am not going to be responding/ reading mm.com anymore today…. I shirked some responsibilities yesterday because I posted so much and I am feeling guilty and overwhelmed with things I need to get done….

    So let me just say real quickly: I can understand how it might appear that “I am indifferent to racism”. It makes sense to me and is not surprising to me that you would say that. I think the mis-perception, on your part, is due to the fact that we are signed onto radically different projects when it comes to the strategies to combat racism, sexism, classism etc. In other words, I think it is possible that you noticed that my own project (which is anti-racist even if it might not be recognized as such by you) is often at odds with your project (which is a more conventional and is more easily recognizable as an anti-racist project) and you misinterpret the clear differences in approach, as a piece of evidence that I am “indifferent” or even worse, actively acting against anti-racist projects. To be more clear and specific: I truly believe that the conventional anti-racists projects of the left are not only doomed to fail, but they are designed to fail, and that they contain within themselves, at their foundation and in their veiled expressions, an evil that is a mere replication of the evil that they purport to be fighting. This evil is cloaked in the appearance of goodness and good intention and therefore even more pernicious to spot, explain, and root out.

    In a way, I truly believe, we are on the same team because we share the same ideals and are striving toward the same ends. In another way many on this website are my sworn enemies because at the level of logic, approach, and strategy I truly believe that the crowd here, as representatives of a conventional liberal mindset, is as dangerous and backward as any crowd imaginable.

    We all have pretty big imaginations here. I am tempted to desperately invoke the name “Hitler” soon for two reasons: 1) Hitler had obviously fucked-up projects, like the projects here, equally fucked up, but less obviously fucked-up; and 2), more importantly, I read somewhere that a sign that a particular conversation has ran its course is when someone brings up “Hitler”….And I really need to stop participating in this conversation because I need to accomplish some important things today.

    Until our next conversation, I hope we can all agree on at least one thing. We people of the MM.com community are a forum, made up of individuals, who all rally around the common belief: Hitler was a bad person. And we collectively promise to use that belief (Hitler was a bad person) as the starting point of next conversation and the conversation after that.

    Talk later.

    PS: So it is clear I am against Hitler.

    PSS: Feel free to quote me on that.

  148. iRobert
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

    I thought the autobahn and Volkswagen were pretty good ideas.

  149. Anonymous
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    I try to not look like I am indifferent to racism. It really is the first step to truly not being indifferent to racism.

  150. iRobert
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

    I tell everybody I’m super racist. Most people don’t have anything to say after that, so it works pretty well.

  151. iRobert
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

    I’d be interested to see how many of the blog commenters here are kept up at night thinking about the hundreds of thousands of children and women killed in US and US backed bombing of civilians in various theaters of conflict around the world. Or are you indifferent?

  152. iRobert
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

    How many of you think about the victims of your lifestyle accesses? Do you think about the conditions of the people who work in the fields where the food you buy is produced? Or are you indifferent? Do you make sure not to buy any products which come from the work of child labor or otherwise exploited people? Or are you indifferent? How many of you own diamonds or items made from ivory? How many of you smoke pot or do other drugs, in other words finance international criminal operations which murder and destroy the lives of innocent people?

  153. Jean Henry
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    iRobert: 1)What lifestyle excesses? 2) yes. (I worked alongside them briefly.) 3) yes. 4)no 5)no

    I have no idea why you think liberal shaming leads to a better world. It seems to make you feel better, which is odd.

    Re the bombing of children abroad, do you think being anti-war makes your hands clean. If the US abandoned foreign engagement would more or fewer children suffer and be killed? If you think the answer to that question is simple, I’d suggest you are being conveniently reductive.

  154. Jean Henry
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 5:35 pm | Permalink

    I do enjoy the idea of MM commenters being diamond and ivory clad…

  155. iRobert
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    What lifestyle excesses? All lifestyle excesses, Jean.

    Can you please match my specific questions to your corresponding answers please? And please, anyone else here who wants to answer the questions, please do. I’m anxious to see how indifferent you all are, or not.

    Jean, your misrepresentation continues, as expected. It is apparently the only tool in your box. Suggesting I’m “liberal shaming” when I am mocking your “shaming” is truely a bizarre twist. To assign onto my statements a motive of your making is another bizarre thing to do. It doesn’t make me feel better. That’s a characterization which is entirely dreamed up in that chaotic mind of yours.

    In response to your question, “do you think being anti-war makes your hands clean?” …I am not anti-war, and ‘no’ my hands are not clean. Thanks for staring at least these false assertions in question form, for once. You should do that more often. You’d be surprised at how much it would improve the communication problems you’re having in your life.

  156. iRobert
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 6:23 pm | Permalink

    We were asked about how indifferent we were here. I just wanted to join in and add some questions to determine everyone’s level and of indifference. I have several more. Let’s sort all this out.

  157. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    “smoke pot…in other words finance international criminal operations which murder and destroy the lives of innocent people?”

    Ahahaha! You fuckin’ knob. What is it with this place?

  158. iRobert
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

    HW, I assume you grow your own. And now with legalization, it won’t be the same situation as it was. But when it is illegal, purchasing pot illegally is financing criminal organizations which commit many more crimes in addition to simply growing and selling an illegal substance. I assume I don’t have to explain all that to you. I also accept the answer that you are indifferent to the crimes an drug network commits.

  159. iRobert
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

    HW, I of course do not have any problem with the act of smoking pot, as I know it has many medicinal uses, and a person should be free to do it regardless. But sourcing was to what I was referring. Any illegal contraband involves sourcing through criminal organizations, including street gangs, smugglers and usually large dangerous cartels with ongoing operations. In this system many people are harmed in a variety of ways, and a good number are murdered.

  160. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    How is it financing anything but other independent US growers to buy US grown weeed, let alone grow you own? I’ve mentioned before I can’t remember the last time I heard of or saw any Mexican bud here in Michigan; since way before the MMMA. That’s ridiculous to say if you buy weeed illegally it means all that shit you said.

  161. Sad
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

    IRobert thinks it’s still 1974?

    https://www.netflix.com/title/80997085?s=i&trkid=13752289

  162. iRobert
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

    It’s not ridiculous, HW. It’s fact. Even if you think you know where the drug is coming from, the fact that it is illegal is in itself enough to result in certain violent confrontations. Some of these will be between law enforcement agencies and the growers, shippers, and distributors. Others will be between competing criminal operations seeking to take over or damage competition. The more locally a person sources illegal contraband, the less likely there will be the addition criminal activity, so of course that’s preferable.

    But there are consequences to everything we do as consumers, and it isn’t just limited to illegal contraband. Even how we source our fruit and vegetables can have significant human rights ramifications. All I’m saying is that this is fact. I’m assuming nobody here gives a shit.

  163. iRobert
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

    I hope I’ve explained it in simple enough terms for Sad. But I’d be happy to get into more detail if that’s of interest. I don’t know why you two are obsessed with Mexican weed. I’m talking about the legality or illegality of any and all contraband, including pot. When a person purchases illegal product of any kind, from anywhere, that person is financing a network of criminals. Even if you buy very locally, you are very likely to be financing local organized criminals, who do not limit their criminal activity to those few crimes you with which you are comfortable.

    Like I said, it’s also ok for you to just admit you are indifferent. Nobody here would care in the least.

  164. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

    The fact that you are an idiot is enough to result in you not knowing what the fuck you are talking about. That is moronic. You buy your weeed from criminals? There have been plenty of perfectly kind growers in this part of the world for a long time now. Who would think of getting cartel weed these days?

  165. iRobert
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 7:45 pm | Permalink

    HW, being called an idiot and moronic by a Trump worshiper is incredibly painless. I would usually object to such rudeness, but in this case I’ll encourage you to insult me to your heart’s content.

    I don’t buy weed, HW. But I am aware of many people who do, and most do not buy local stuff. Most people buy stupid, and go cheap. Good quality and local stuff tends to be very limited in quantity. College towns, which are places of high demand, are flooded with weed from far off places as a result.

    You may have found a small grower locally with which you have established a direct relationship. However, most consumers haven’t. You have minimized the potential for additional criminal activity associated with your purchases, though not likely to zero. Anyway, I am speaking in generalities. There are always many exceptions.

  166. iRobert
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 7:51 pm | Permalink

    Now, to get back to my point, and away from your life’s obsession, I will once again ask everyone to share their deep concerns about how their lifestyles and choices as consumers are impacting people and the world around them. I just want to gauge how indifferent everyone is. It wasn’t my idea. I just thought I’d jump on into the discussion.

  167. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

    https://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg-mexico-marijuana-20180127-story.html

    “Widespread legalization in the U.S. is killing Mexico’s marijuana business, and cartel leaders know it. ”

    It’s so easy to smoke you people but somehow you still think all the same bullshitty things you get smoked on.

  168. iRobert
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

    HW, the shift is in the process of occurring. It isn’t complete. As the pot which is consumed in the US is increasingly legal, the associated criminal activity declines. That’s the greatest benefit of legalization, without a doubt.

    If it makes you feel better, let’s just say I was referring to all other illegal substances and products. I don’t want to spend this much time in your world. I’d like to return to the broader world where folks care about a little more than just getting high.

  169. Sad
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 8:05 pm | Permalink

    Are you going to let him talk to you like that HW?

  170. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

    For people who do give a shit about not buying cartel weeed, unlike your friends the homegrown revolution has been on for a lot of decades.

  171. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    Are you going to be a little bitch and try to instigate like Bark Baynord?

  172. Sad
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

    Guilty.

    It’s just that Irobert so often runs the table. He’s very rarely forced to go toe to toe with anyone. He always knock me down on grammatical failings. Darn.

  173. Jean
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

    iRobert– You’ve got me wrong. I don’t judge people’s lifestyle choices. I hold my own counsel re such things. I don’t care what other people do. My objection to fast food is to the corporations themselves, not to the consumers. My objection to Lynne’s point was her pride (or bravado) re eating fast food. She thinks I judge her eating there but I don’t. I just think it’s a stupid point of pride. She also thinks that objection to fast food corporate practices is coded judgment of the consumers and fat shaming. There’s not much I can do about that perception. It’s not true.
    Lastly, I don’t see what consumer choices have to do with addressing the cultural cancers of racism and sexism. Please explain how they are related. PS I’m uninterested in shame. It’s a barrier to progress. Your shame re racism and sexism is your own. I’m just pointing it up when I see it. And when I see thinking that accommodates it. I could always be wrong. Obv.

  174. iRobert
    Posted December 17, 2018 at 11:49 pm | Permalink

    Sad, I too am severely challenged grammatically. But I’ve learned to blame all my errors on autocorrect. People seem to be buying it.

    Well, I think we’ve all learned something from this comment thread….

    …and that is, we’re all going to want to get on HW’s good side, because he has a connection for some seriously high quality weed locally.

    It’s always such a heartwarming experience to check in with the Maytards. Are we going to be exchanging gifts this year? I already have all of mine picked out. Well, except for Steve Swan. What do you get a man who’s fucked everything?

  175. Jean Henry
    Posted December 18, 2018 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

    For HW re: his dull attacks on the Clinton Foundation. The smallest of the Trump Foundation’s donations was $7– the amount needed to register an 11-year-old Don Jr for boy scouts…

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-agrees-to-shut-down-his-charity-amid-allegations-he-used-it-for-personal-and-political-benefit/2018/12/18/dd3f5030-021b-11e9-9122-82e98f91ee6f_story.html

  176. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 18, 2018 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

    Nothing dull about what is coming out about the CF which is what I have been talking about. It’s not an attack. It’s the truth about another one of your lies. Those investigators testified the CF did not act as a proper charity therefore some or all of their money they ever got should be subject to tax. They also testified the Little Rock FBI field office is conducting an investigation into the CF of their own. Q let us in on that tidbit long ago.

  177. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 18, 2018 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

    You have no leg to stand on. You have no problem with this but you want to believe made up “dossiers” from Russian sources that THEY paid for to FRAME President Trump! It couldn’t be more incredible.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/yes-the-clintons-should-be-investigated/2017/11/19/d88bb652-cb15-11e7-b0cf-7689a9f2d84e_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c1d7c62948fb

    “The New York Times reported in 2015 that “shortly after the Russians announced their intention to acquire a majority stake in Uranium One, [former President Bill] Clinton received $500,000 for a Moscow speech from a Russian investment bank with links to the Kremlin that was promoting Uranium One stock.” In total, $145 million went to the Clinton Foundation from interests linked to Uranium One, which was acquired by the Russian government nuclear agency Rosatom.”

  178. Jean Henry
    Posted December 18, 2018 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

    Still waiting…

  179. Jean Henry
    Posted December 18, 2018 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

    Old news…
    Still waiting on something new…

  180. Jean Henry
    Posted December 18, 2018 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

    “Facts are simple and facts are straight
    Facts are lazy and facts are late
    Facts all come with points of view
    Facts don’t do what I want them to
    Facts just twist the truth around
    Facts are living turned inside out
    Facts are getting the best of them
    Facts are nothing on the face of things
    Facts don’t stain the furniture
    Facts go out and slam the door
    Facts are written all over your face
    Facts continue to change their shape
    I’m still waiting…I’m still waiting…I’m still waiting…
    I’m still waiting…I’m still waiting…I’m still waiting…
    I’m still waiting…I’m still waiting…”

  181. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 18, 2018 at 1:40 pm | Permalink

    That ought to be plenty enough already. In light of this obvious mountain of corruption take a look at the difference between how you treat the President and how you treat them. It’s incredible in the truest sense of the word.

  182. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 18, 2018 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

    …jeez, man…

  183. Jean Henry
    Posted December 18, 2018 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=14&v=6g8lFmsCXhg

  184. Lynne
    Posted December 18, 2018 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

    Re: “I’d be interested to see how many of the blog commenters here are kept up at night thinking about the hundreds of thousands of children and women killed in US and US backed bombing of civilians in various theaters of conflict around the world. Or are you indifferent?”

    I don’t lose sleep over it but I do worry about it and I worry about the deaths and injuries to adult men too, not just women and children.

    How many of you think about the victims of your lifestyle accesses?

    I think about it often. I am working on reducing my impact but admittedly am having trouble letting go of some things, especially meat and driving my car when I could take the bus. Privilege is a difficult thing to part with, even if one acknowledges its existence.

    Do you think about the conditions of the people who work in the fields where the food you buy is produced? Or are you indifferent? Do you make sure not to buy any products which come from the work of child labor or otherwise exploited people? Or are you indifferent?

    I do but I am not sure there is much food produced that doesnt involve some bad conditions for workers. I am indifferent enough to their suffering that I don’t starve myself. I could grow some of my own food but I don’t so there is some indifference there. I would prefer that this problem get addressed through political means rather than by shaming consumers. Mostly because it would be more effective.

    Do you make sure not to buy any products which come from the work of child labor or otherwise exploited people?

    I try but it isn’t always possible to know. Much like with food production, this is a problem better solved through regulation than consumer shaming. Perhaps this is what FF was getting at in his response to my impression that he is indifferent to racism. ie he isnt indifferent but rather wants to take a different approach to the problem?

    How many of you own diamonds or items made from ivory? How many of you smoke pot or do other drugs, in other words finance international criminal operations which murder and destroy the lives of innocent people?

    LOL. Don’t diss on my bling and weed, bro!!

    I don’t own any ivory or diamonds. I do buy weed for some medical issues I have. I buy directly from a guy who grows it. It is semi-legal in that he is licensed to grow by the State of Michigan and is designated as my “caregiver” which means he can legally sell it to me. I don’t think that contributes to the problems associated with international drug smuggling except for that one time I took a bunch of pot into Canada where I caught a flight to Rome thus smuggling it into two countries. I didnt have to kill anyone though.

  185. Hyborian Warlord.
    Posted December 18, 2018 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    Everything that is happening to Trump is already secretly happening to the Clintons on a scale far worse than your feeble minds can understand.

  186. Jean Henry
    Posted December 18, 2018 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

    we’re still waiting…

  187. wobblie
    Posted December 18, 2018 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    “I took a bunch of pot into Canada where I caught a flight to Rome thus smuggling it into two countries.” That is pretty cool Lynn. You obviously have bigger gonads than most. My wife would never let me smuggle across international borders and she calls all the shots when we travel.

  188. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 18, 2018 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    In case any of you idiots haven’t figured it out I don’t use a period after my name or any variations on it. No doubt it’s Dirty Peter doing his ‘bad kid’ class clown act. Bark Baynord told him to cool it on using other people’s names so now he thinks it’s okay if he puts a punctuation mark on it. Think about how infantile that is. Incredible.

  189. Anonymous
    Posted December 18, 2018 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    I really didn’t notice a difference in what was posted between the two. Anybody else?

  190. Jean Henry
    Posted December 18, 2018 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    No, Anon, I can’t tell the difference. The real HW uses more invective. I know I can be a bitch, (not apologizing…) but I do not think I’ve ever just used relentless chest- thumping adhominem attacks like that. I don’t even think Pete can pull that off. The fake HW seems relatively calm. Not like he’s about to shoot up a classroom. It may be impossible to our HW HW.
    Like Trump, parodies are roughly just straight imitations.

  191. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 18, 2018 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    That’s ridiculous. You are claiming I am unhinged but you think you and Dirty Peter act fine. There is a mountain of insanely hateful shit you have said to me. I’ve been relatively chill. Just go back and stack ’em all up. Nothing wrong with having fun expressing things in a colorful manner while DEFENDING against your attacks. Self defense is justified but your shitty attacks are not.

  192. Sad
    Posted December 18, 2018 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    I think I saw a porn movie with Dirk Diggler and Bark Baynord.

    I’m working on a Tom of Finland inspired drawing of HW. He’s so macho.

    What do you call something a few notches above mansplaining?

  193. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 18, 2018 at 7:17 pm | Permalink

    Why are you so threatened? Have you been the victim of traumatic attacks? I know Dirty Peter has trauma in his past, the effects of which are eminently apparent in his behavior. You went into fight mode against me personally immediately even when I was extremely tolerant with a pacifistic behavior policy. There is a certain over-compensation in what you do that suggests to me it is you who has psychological problems, let alone your tortured rationalizations you employ to try to make the world conform to your beliefs.

  194. Jean
    Posted December 18, 2018 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

    “How can it not be starting to dawn on you you are the mega fucking idiot of all time?”
    “Now it’s official: by your own standard you are an idiot.”
    “The way it looks to an idiot does not matter. ”
    “How can you live with the cognitive dissonance?”
    “Whoah, you are cooolll. You can say stuff that doesn’t matter and ape other people’s nicks!”
    “. It should be getting clearer to you that my understanding is so far beyond yours you simply haven’t been able to see it. I’m running laps around you but every time you forget and think I am behind while I am about to pass you again.”
    “It has to be mental illness. Your accusations are ridiculous, Jean. All the more so because you are a proud racist, sexist, bigot, etc. but you think you are the opposite. You call that “I know you are but what am I?” because you have to or else reality sets in and the illusion crumbles.”
    “Seeing them cry will be great.”
    “Did I finally drive you off the deep end? You don’t know what is up and what is down.”
    I’m owning all of you. If it wasn’t for me, this would be an intellectual wasteland.
    “Ahahaha! You fuckin’ knob. What is it with this place?”
    “The fact that you are an idiot is enough to result in you not knowing what the fuck you are talking about. That is moronic.”
    “Are you going to be a little bitch and try to instigate like Bark Baynord?”
    “In case any of you idiots haven’t figured it out I don’t use a period after my name or any variations on it. No doubt it’s Dirty Peter doing his ‘bad kid’ class clown act. Bark Baynord told him to cool it on using other people’s names so now he thinks it’s okay if he puts a punctuation mark on it. Think about how infantile that is. Incredible.”

    “There is a mountain of insanely hateful shit you have said to me. I’ve been relatively chill. Just go back and stack ’em all up. “—

    As, requested, HW. That list is just from this thread.

  195. Jean Henry
    Posted December 18, 2018 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

    “I was extremely tolerant with a pacifistic behavior policy. “

  196. Sad
    Posted December 18, 2018 at 7:51 pm | Permalink

    Your confidence is intimidating.

    I feel a little threatened by it.

  197. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 18, 2018 at 8:30 pm | Permalink

    You know it’s true, Jean. I mean I know you have a hard time remembering what you yourself say from day to day so maybe you truly do not remember. It’s okay. It’s all going to be okay.

  198. Jean Henry
    Posted December 18, 2018 at 10:58 pm | Permalink

    -How can it not be starting to dawn on you you are the mega fucking idiot of all time?
    -Now it’s official: by your own standard you are an idiot.
    -The way it looks to an idiot does not matter.
    -How can you live with the cognitive dissonance?
    -I just smoked you again. Your claim was the opposite of reality. It should be getting clearer to you that my understanding is so far beyond yours you simply haven’t been able to see it. I’m running laps around you but every time you forget and think I am behind while I am about to pass you again. Orange Man will be fine for the millionth time and your people are going to bite it hard.
    –It has to be mental illness.
    -I just like seeing them get embarrassed. Seeing them cry will be great.
    – Did I finally drive you off the deep end? You don’t know what is up and what is down.
    -he fact that you are an idiot is enough to result in you not knowing what the fuck you are talking about. That is moronic.
    -It’s so easy to smoke you people but somehow you still think all the same bullshitty things you get smoked on.
    -Are you going to be a little bitch and try to instigate like Bark Baynord?
    -Think about how infantile that is. Incredible.

    – There is a mountain of insanely hateful shit you have said to me. I’ve been relatively chill. Just go back and stack ’em all up.

    So I went ahead and did that, HW. The above are just from this thread….

  199. Hyborian Warlord.
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 6:55 am | Permalink

    That’s fake news. You’re imagining things again. I didn’t post any of that. It was the fake Hyborian Warlord..

  200. Jean Henry
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 7:34 am | Permalink

    https://goo.gl/images/2UiG9L

  201. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 8:07 am | Permalink

    Those are reasonable responses to your attacks though. Go and add up all the shit you and Dirty Peter and the rest said. Hopefully in the end it teaches you a lesson not to go around fucking with people and blaming them for what is wrong with you.

  202. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 8:12 am | Permalink

    For example:

    Jean: “You are an idiot with very little understanding of anything at all.”

    Hyborian Warlord: “How can it not be starting to dawn on you you are the mega fucking idiot of all time?”

    Jean: “POLICE!!! He’s going to kill me! AHHHHH!!!!!”

  203. Sad
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 8:38 am | Permalink

    Who’s real? Does this make you feel real? Mighty real?

    https://youtu.be/VyAHULpMXKQ

  204. Hyborian Warlord.
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    Excuse the outburst. I’m running low on “medication.”

  205. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 9:09 am | Permalink

    Are you people admitting defeat? You can’t say anything that even vaguely resembles reality anymore so you aren’t even trying.

  206. Jean Henry
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 9:12 am | Permalink

    I did call you an idiot once, HW. That was a lapse. Or a reasonable response. I’m not sure.

    your own words speak volumes. The steaming piles are all anyone needs to see (or smell) to get the gist of the scenario here.

    Ps I don’t fear you in the slightest. I think you’re abusive but I wouldn’t be here using my own full name if I feared you. I’m not a coward hiding behind a curtain yelling at people.

  207. Jean Henry
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

  208. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    “once”

    Hahahahahahahahahahaha! Funny shit.

  209. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 9:39 am | Permalink

    Everyone knows about the Dunning-Kruger effect. I knew about it before I ever heard of it years ago because it is so obvious. I’ve never taken an IQ test but my IQ is probably in the 140’s. High intelligence tends to run in families and I don’t think it usually skips a generation like color-blindness.

  210. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    Yeah, ’99. I remember when the study came out. It backed up what I already knew. Understand my Dad was a genius whose work is still referenced in books and academic journals today. My child who I took it upon myself to educate tested at genius or near-genius level.

  211. Jean Henry
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    “Everyone knows about the Dunning-Kruger effect. I knew about it before I ever heard of it years ago because it is so obvious. I’ve never taken an IQ test but my IQ is probably in the 140’s. High intelligence tends to run in families and I don’t think it usually skips a generation like color-blindness.“

    There is no parody that could be better than HW’s own testimony

  212. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 9:57 am | Permalink

    See, you can’t believe it because of…dat dah dah – the Dunning Kruger effect. You think you are smarter than you are. Anyone in your family ever take an IQ test?

  213. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 10:01 am | Permalink

    There is certainly no shortage of people on MM.com that believe themselves to be experts in detecting implicit cognitive in others.

    “In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people of low ability have illusory superiority and mistakenly assess their cognitive ability as greater than it is. The cognitive bias of illusory superiority comes from the inability of low-ability people to recognize their lack of ability. Without the self-awareness of metacognition, low-ability people cannot objectively evaluate their actual competence or incompetence.[1]”

  214. Jean Henry
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 10:01 am | Permalink

    Oh god. Your poor child.

  215. Jean Henry
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    “I know you are but what am I”

  216. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    Yeah, it sucks to be a genius sometimes. You have to deal with low IQ people who try to put down your intelligence with stupid attacks.

  217. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 10:07 am | Permalink

    MAGIC SHOWS PRESENTED
    EVERY HOUR ON THE HOUR
    AT JEAN’S FANTASYLAND HOUSE OF MAGIC

  218. Frosted Flakes
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    The bag of tricks is small
    The audience is never tricked
    The magician is exceptional at fooling only herself

  219. Jean Henry
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    My parents met at Harvard, HW. I was tracked into gifted programs in public school. I test well. I also have some evident neurological/cognitive difference. None of that, including IQ, makes any of us have any particular claim to intelligence or any special hold on being right. There are many kinds of intelligence and privilege has been shown to distort outcomes. Even on IQ tests. PS since it’s clear you are around my age, it’s almost certain you took an IQ test at some point. There’s a reason they steer clear now.

  220. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    “I know you are but what am I”

    That’s your intellectual ceiling right there. You can’t honestly look at what you do because you are subject to Dunning Kruger. I think every human being on the planet is potentially far more intelligent then they currently are including myself therefore I do not overestimate my own intelligence. How can I explain it so you understand? The more intelligent you are the more you see how much you don’t know. It is that attitude which leads me to study everything I can. Your attitude puts you in a little box. You are fuming in there thinking “There is nothing outside this box! There can’t be!”

  221. Jean Henry
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    HW— I have never encountered anyone more certain of their own correctness than you.

  222. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    What’s your IQ then? I’m not bragging. It’s a reasoned response to whatever it is you think you are doing by posting the Dunning Kruger effect and generally insulting my intelligence.

  223. Hyborian Warlord.
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    I am so intelligent that I have to pretend not to be in real life, because common Ypsilanti folk would be so threatened that they would persecute me. This forum allows me to show what idiots you are while allowing me to be in a safe place. I’m like Magneto, but better. I am a warlord..

  224. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 10:23 am | Permalink

    You don’t understand me, Jean. My entire philosophy is based on assuming I don’t know anything. There is always a better perspective. I play the odds relative to the perspective of others. If you are saying one thing is definitely true but I have good evidence against it I will proceed with reasonable confidence. I could be wrong but it doesn’t usually work out that way. You get skunked every time you try to argue with me. Then you turn to meaningless “invective” as you like to say.

  225. Jean Henry
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    Yes, I’ve heard you assert that before HW. It stands in contrast to your regularly expressed certainty not just about your analysis of the present but your predictions of the future. An intelligent person wouldn’t buy into a popular conspiracy theory or follow any president with such conviction and loyalty. You are a sheep HW.

  226. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    I have fun squashing you peeps. Having fun is intelligent. It would have been fun for me to have a respectful conversation about current events as I did when I came here but you destroyed that possibility with your bad behavior.

  227. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 10:35 am | Permalink

    Qanon was hardly popular when it began. It was very much underground. Q has provided open-source intelligence on themes I was already broadly aware of. It’s not me following it so much as it is then information detailing or dove-tailing with what I already was aware of. I am betting on the Q plan being legitimate. Now if I am correct then my confidence is justified, right?

  228. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    *the* information detailing

  229. Jean Henry
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    No, even when one turns out to be right, confidence about future predictions is not justified.

  230. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    Why?

  231. Jean Henry
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    Think on it, Genius.

  232. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    I have and I can’t find a rationalization that works. See what I am saying? You get smoked then you quickly turn to “hurling invective.” It reminds me of the end of that sweet NPC meme vid.

  233. Jean Henry
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    I’m sorry where is the invective. You referred to yourself as a genius.
    You can figure it out if you pick apart the statement. It’s not complicated. It’s not even a long sentence.

    Ps believing that arguments are won and lost, that winning can be self-determined, and that such winning indicates being right is alll contrary to your assertion about your own lack of certainty.

    The whole ‘knowing what you don’t know’ thing is not intended as a prompt to seek out new knowledge and express more certainty about it; it’s about questioning what you do know.

  234. Anonymous
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    http://quantopolis.com/past-performance-not-indicative-future-results

    *Except for Nostradamus and ilk.

  235. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 11:35 am | Permalink

    Mockery, whatever…The pattern is you get skunked then try to mock or dismiss or just straight up attack meaninglessly.

  236. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 11:45 am | Permalink

    “believing that arguments are won and lost, that winning can be self-determined, and that such winning indicates being right is alll contrary to your assertion about your own lack of certainty.”

    I think if you win an argument there necessarily must be an objective component to your case. If you are merely expressing your opinion it’s not a proper argument. There is nothing contradictory to to my outlook in that. Arguments can certainly be won and lost. It doesn’t mean it has some magical effect of making the winning argument absolutely true. It just means there is currently no better evidence we know of. It’s the scientific approach. There is some degree of doubt about everything and everything is possible. Sound paradoxical? Perhaps it does sound that way but isn’t it a sign of genius to be able to hold two opposing thoughts at once?

  237. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

    In my view when asked to explain your opinion just saying “you figure it out if you are so smart” or some variation like “anyone who doesn’t know that must be a…” is forfeiting the argument.

  238. Anonymous
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    I think HW was featured on Budweiser’s Real Men of Genius once.

  239. EOS
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    I think Jean may be the fake HW as she seems to be the only one who finds it amusing.

  240. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

    It’s Dirty Peter ‘technically’ satisfying the requirements like I described: a guy who never grew out of being the neglected kid acting bad for attention. Oh, okay I can’t use his name so I’ll put a period on it and talk shit to people to actually try and start trouble. Real good stuff you’re doing there!

  241. Jean Henry
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

    I don’t believe the scientific method advocates for certainty re future predictions based soley on information derived from the internet.

  242. Jean Henry
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

    EOS has always been known for her fine sense of humor.

  243. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

    I don’t get all my information from the internet. I have real life experiences that are relevant to my understanding. There is no medium I can think of can be characterized as true or false. Talking about the scientific method: I don’t think it is biased one way or the other. If true knowledge can be determined what importance is it if it is from books or radio or zines or websites?

  244. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted December 19, 2018 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

    Even television has some good stuff once in a while. You can’t knock it 100%. My predictions are an extraordinary bet I am taking on the validity of the Q plan. My confidence has increased as more of the things Q has posted about have been confirmed by current events. Nothing like what is coming has ever happened before. The CF/Russia financial shenanigans are a molehill compared to the level of corruption that is being targeted by the Executive Office with the help of his friends at that little thing he has control of: the US Military and all that includes (Military Intelligence/NSA).

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Connect

Sidetrack ad Aubree’s ad BUY LOCAL... or shop at Amazon through this link Banner Initiative Hischak2