Having attempted unsuccessfully to convince us that his sympathies don’t lie with Nazis, Trump returns to racist form

Yesterday, we saw a focused, scripted Donald Trump attempt to put our minds at ease and convince us that, despite what it might have looked like in the days following the attack on Charlottesville, he really shares our believe that white supremacists are repugnant. Well, as that particular speech didn’t yield the results that our President was hoping for, we saw a dramatic, off-the-cuff return to form today. Following, if you haven’t seen it, is video of Trump once again addressing the press on the white nationalist terror attack in Charlottesville. As you’ll notice, he’s no longer talking about the Nazis in question being “repugnant.” No, he’s now saying that their ranks include “some very fine people.” What’s more, he’s returned his original talking point from the day of the murder about “both sides” being to blame, ignoring the fact that only one side came armed for war and then committed murder. He even goes so far as to put himself in the shoes of the Nazis, saying, “What about the alt-left that came charging at us.” [He would, moments later, correct himself, but the slip was telling.]

And, yes, you did just hear Trump, in that video above, compare Robert E Lee and Stonewall Jackson to the likes of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.

Oh, and did you hear that part where he said that he didn’t condemn the white supremacists earlier because, he likes to… get this… have all the facts before he speaks on a subject? “When I make a statement, I like to be correct,” he told members of the gobsmacked press. “I want the facts.” [This coming from the man who popularized birtherism and continues to maintain the guilt of the so-called “Central Park Five” with absolutely no evidence to support the claim.]

One last thing. If anyone ever asks you to give and example of how the Republican and Democratic parties are different from one another, here’s a great example. Virginia’s Democratic governor, Terry McAuliffe, told white supremacists on Saturday, “There is no place for you in America.” Donald Trump today told us that, contrary to what we might think, there are actually “some very fine people” among the folks attending your average white power rally.

That’s right. You apparently don’t have to be a repugnant neo-Nazi to attend a neo-Nazi rally. You might just be a fine American exercising your god given right to walk alongside touch-wielding, heavily-armed individuals calling for race warfare.

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  1. When you've lost Krauthammer
    Posted August 15, 2017 at 10:28 pm | Permalink

    Fox’s Charles Krauthammer called today’s performance a “moral outrage.”

    When you’ve sunk beyond Krauthammer, there’s no hope. Absolutely none.

    Krauthammer: “What Trump did today was a moral disgrace. What he did is he reverted back to where he was on Saturday and made it very clear that what he read on [Monday] was a hostage tape.”


  2. Posted August 15, 2017 at 10:36 pm | Permalink

    I’m watching the Vice doc on Charlottesville now and I’m having a difficult time identifying the fine ones. Can someone help?


  3. EOS
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 4:30 am | Permalink


    More and more frequently you distort the truth to make a point. In doing so, you’ve lost credibility and the argument you hope to support. Trump never said that the Nazi ranks included some very fine people. He said those protesting the removal of the statue included some very fine people. They were not all Nazi’s or white nationalists. And both sides were armed. Some with weapons that were never fired and others with sticks, rocks, and mace that were used.

  4. wobblie
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 5:03 am | Permalink

    ” They were not all Nazi’s or white nationalists.” Not on Friday night when they marched through campus and attempted to intimidate the University community. Nor in July when they had their first march. They attacked the counter protestors and would have done worse under the cover of darkness. Their were no “fine” folks in that demo. They were not protesting the removal of a traitor statue on Friday. They were engaging in a form of mass terrorism. Ignore reality EOS, it is what delusional folks always do.

  5. EOS
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 5:21 am | Permalink


    So how is it that you know the identity of every individual at the protest and their motivation? Is it reality or personal bias?

  6. Jean Henry
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 5:41 am | Permalink

    “White nationalists; militia movements; anti-Muslim attackers; I.R.S. building and abortion clinic bombers; and other right-wing groups were responsible for 12 times as many fatalities and 36 times as many injuries as communists; socialists; animal rights and environmental activists; anti-white- and Black Lives Matter-inspired attackers; and other left-wing groups.”


  7. Jean Henry
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 5:46 am | Permalink

    I don’t know about you, but if I were marching to protest the removal of a statue and the people I was marching with started shouting Nazi and White Supremacist chants, I’d get the hell out of there. I have left rallies before when I didn’t agree with the overall tone of the protestors. I left one recently because the anti Trump people called Trump supporters ‘brown shirts.’ I may have been the one too quick to judge.

  8. EOS
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 6:39 am | Permalink

    And if I wanted to counter demonstrate a group with which I disagreed, and others who opposed became physically violent and attacked the group that had a legal permit to hold a rally, then I’d get the hell out of there. I’m not claiming any moral equivalence, but the rally would not have caused any problem were it not for the presence of the group that wanted to silence their message with physical attacks, however repulsive the message might be.

  9. M
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 6:42 am | Permalink

    For those of you who might have missed it, EOS and his friends have also suggested that many of the Nazis weren’t Nazis at all, but Jews pretending to be Nazis.

  10. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 6:51 am | Permalink

    Militiamen Administer First Aid In Charlottesville, Try To Separate Opposing Sides


  11. EOS
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 7:01 am | Permalink

    @ M,

    No, I didn’t say anything at all about Jews.

  12. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 7:50 am | Permalink

    M is a smear artist.

  13. Jean Henry
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 7:59 am | Permalink

    Hyborian– I posted a link to that group and tagged you on another MM thread. Their perspective is interesting. They are pro 1st and 2nd amendment rights militia. They were there to keep the peace– with gums and medic kits. And they did so. Many are vets and know what they are doing. They very much distanced themselves from the protestors political position. They were not there to support the protest but to try to keep the peace. They point the blame for violence on the local police. They were there and have been at other marches where the police ‘did their job.’ This was different. The leader posited that the police witheld assistance (confirmed by both sides) because they wanted an excuse to shut down the rally before Richard Spencer could speak.


    This going back and forth about who is responsible for violence is useless. People in these conditions, not properly managed, can turn violent. And it certainly looks like individuals on both sides committed acts of violence. Only one side though has deaths and major injuries in their column. And only one side held, as it’s premise, a political position that is inherently violent. Only one side actively supported genocide in its chants and symbolism.

    I hold the Charlottesville police responsible for the smaller incidents of violence. They fucked up. They may have done so with good intentions. People do that a lot.

  14. Jean Henry
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 8:01 am | Permalink

    It’s true it was HW who talked about Jews faking the whole thing. Actually all white supremacy is a fake movement created by Jews to … wait what is the possible motivation of Jews faking White Supremacy?

  15. M
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    I stand corrected. It was HW and FF who suggested that the Nazis were actors, and it was HW specifically who said that they were Jewish actors. EOS, has said other objectionable things in the past, but in this instance, it was not him. My apologies.

  16. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 8:20 am | Permalink

    I pointed out that the daily stormer was created by a jewish nazi. That is a fact. I did not say that shit you just said, jean. Regarding Fields I responded to a comment that is has been suggested he is jewish. I have no idea if that is true but what if it is? Is it forbidden to notice that? I talked about the anti-semitic bomb threats last year being perpetrated by a jewish israeli kid but that got no traction around here so you are actually being dishonest by using sloppy generalizations.

  17. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    Total smear artist. Yuck

  18. Frosted Flakes
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 8:51 am | Permalink


    Try to be more accurate, please.

    I never said “The Nazis” are anything. I never mentioned “The Nazis” at all, I commented on how something seemed “inauthentic” and “amiss” about a specific group, and their leader, named “American Vanguard” based upon a specific video shared by HW. Specifically, American Vanguard ******seemed****** so “inauthentic” they ****might*****, among many possibilities,be actors or some kind of satirical comedy group of some sort, or something else. Ultimately I have no idea who they are, and I have never heard of them before, which is why I went out of my way to not make a truth claim about the group.

    Did you even watch the video? If you watched the video then please give your honest impression of the group. Does American Vanguard seem super-duper-authentic to you?

    Otherwise, please try to be a little more accurate and sensitive to nuance and context when reading other peoples words and especially when you have the impulse to restate other people’s words in such obviously uncharitable ways. I am still holding onto to hope that you are not making these little mistakes and oversights on purpose…to fit your agenda….to fit the points you are trying to make….

    Serious question: What was the point you were trying to make just now anyway? Toward what end?

  19. Frosted Flakes
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    “suggested” is better than “said”

  20. freeto
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 8:55 am | Permalink

    Yo, Mark! Well done, once again. One question- what do folks think of the confederate states? Are they just secessionists thinking of their investment [property/slaves]- or are they traitors to the constitution? I wonder if the sentiment has changed since I left America of if ‘real’ folks know the truth…

  21. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    From now you must quote me directly. Do not distort what I say, especially about something like this. Don’t commit libel.

  22. Rex
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    How does one libel a person using an alias? I’m asking for a friend.

  23. stupid hick
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 9:20 am | Permalink

    Hyborian, Alex Jones is full of shit. You can’t trust him, even if you perceive his values are aligned with yours. That’s what makes him even more poisonous. You trust him because you think he’s on your side, but he’s just poisoning your mind. Take a step back, be skeptical of what he says. He’s a manipulator who entices otherwise reasonable conservatives to self radicalize.

  24. Jean Henry
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 9:29 am | Permalink

    Nicely played, Rex.
    Hyborian Warlord– you don’t get to make the rules for someone else’s blog. Lord knows I have tried to influence MM’s scope of coverage on some things, but it’s his blog to direct, not yours to hijack.

    If I mis-stated your perspective I am sorry. I believe you said the Charlottesville rally was staged by leftist Jews, per Alex Jones. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/charlottesville-latest-alex-jones-white-supremacist-protesters-jewish-actors-virginia-a7894351.html ) You made allowances for real White Supremacists existing and being fooled into participating. Is that accurate?

    So my question is what do Jewish imposters stand to gain by infiltrating White Supremacist groups? Are they making them seem worse than they are? Are these jewish actors the only ‘white supremacists’ who commit violence? How exactly does one ‘discredit White Supremacists.’ (quoting Jones here not you, HW)

  25. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 9:42 am | Permalink

    I found that shit out about Vanguard America being phony and Jason Kessler being a leftist before I heard anything of what AJ had to say. I posted the evidence. I never said VA was jewish or Kessler either.

    I never said there are no real neo-nazis. Some are for sure real and some might not be. I think it is true that many of the groups have been infiltrated by FBI, etc. Vanguard America acts exactly like antifa. They stick out like a sore thumb in that world.

  26. Jean Henry
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 9:52 am | Permalink


    Useful for perspective on the Antifa. Their term v ‘alt-left’ which, previous to the president’s hijacking of the word, was used to identify for anti-globalist and Dem party, deep state and identity-politics fearing, and wikileaks loving leftists aka bros. They are the faction of the left cribbing talking points and memes of the alt-right who had too much influence beliefs and rhetoric of progressives during the election. (I know, I know, they don’t exist. HRC made them up.) The irony of Trump using the term perjoratively is it covers for the true alt-left Trump apologists, like Glen Greenwald, Oliver Stone and co (see Wobblie), who are of late showing up on Fox News to defend Russia against accusations of interference in the election etc etc. Russia is their great hope to upend American power and so bring peace to the world. Those are the ‘alt-left.’ And, yeah, they exist.

  27. Jean Henry
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    Does the established Nazi sympathizing history (through high school at least) of Vanguard shield-toting, murderer/terrorist, James Alex Fields, weigh in to your thinking on that at all Hyborian?

  28. Jean Henry
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    PS HW: Jason Kessler was just welcomed on to Alex Jones show and said he is not a White Supremacist, he was there to protect free speech, and they were set up by Cville police and the Antifa. So is he still a leftist?

  29. Jean Henry
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    PPS If the FBI are doing their job, they damn well better have infiltrated White Supremacist groups. That doesn’t mean they lead or direct them.

  30. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 10:01 am | Permalink

    AJ confronted Kessler on being a fed, etc. and his answers were weak. He only started the white supremacy crap after Trump was elected. How does that not ring alarm bells? AJ did a good job exposing him.

  31. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    You still don’t understand I am saying he is pretending to be a right wing racist? How does it not set off alarm bells in anyone’s mind that he only started this shit after Trump was elected president?

  32. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 10:05 am | Permalink

    Regarding Fields I have no idea what is up with him. I understand he is diagnosed with schizophrenia.

  33. stupid hick
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 10:07 am | Permalink

    There is a difference between “facts” and the conclusions you draw from them. If your conclusions are the same as those of Alex Jones, consider retracing your steps and reexamine why you decided to take the path you did.

  34. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    The facts line up with my observations though. I knew there was going to be some kind of serious attack when I saw the two sides gathering in the morning and that it was a setup to smear the right. This one was different than all the other protests and I could tell by looking at it.

  35. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    Vanguard America is fake, stupid. It’s self-evident. Watch their LARPing video series I posted.

  36. Jean Henry
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 10:15 am | Permalink

    It appears to me that Kessler is a classic alt-left bro who veered alt-right when HRC was put up as the Dem nominee. We have several ex-occupy leftists turned Trump defenders (if not voters) here. Wait weren’t you one?

    Anyway, that’s a more likely scenario than the FBI plant inciting violence one. He’s a young guy. Personally, I’m eager to read his book of poetry. I can place it on my bookshelf next to Mao’s and Sadaam’s.


    I know your belief is that the Deep State is bottomless. Hard to overcome that. I do empathize with the fear of State over-reach though. I think we all do lately.

  37. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    The thing is he didn’t just veer anywhere. He put together the rally where the schizophrenic kid from the phony white supremacist group used his car as a terrorist weapon.

    It’s weird you say bro like that. It’s so hypocritical.

  38. Anonymous
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 10:34 am | Permalink

    HW should write his own blog. There’s just not enough space for him to explain his views adequately. We could have a naming contest.
    A) Smarter than he seems
    B) As smart as he seems
    C) Not quite as smart as he seems

    Polls close at 7.

  39. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted August 16, 2017 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

    Pretty sure you are just not used to economical use of language, anonymous.

  40. wobblie
    Posted August 17, 2017 at 4:05 am | Permalink

    Nothing but lies and hate come out of Trumps mouth

  41. The Hill
    Posted August 17, 2017 at 8:30 am | Permalink

    Fox’s Shep Smith: We couldn’t find a Republican willing to come on and defend Trump http://hill.cm/jdJJLbu

  42. Jean Henry
    Posted August 24, 2017 at 9:21 pm | Permalink

    Worth a read for those inclined to lectures on Non violence and false equivalency between bro nazis and the Antofagasta and BLM:

  43. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted August 24, 2017 at 9:41 pm | Permalink

    At least some of those militia people helped people too and separated the two sides. I posted that a long time ago. The first thing I saw at about 11:30 AM that Saturday was people throwing rocks at the militia with their back to the wall and saying they wanted to leave.

    This is total fucking bullshit. Vanguard America is a fraud and I posted videos that prove it. The only Antifa-style neo nazi org in the world that just happened to show up at the world’s most recent white supremacy convert’s rally where all this shit happened with their latest pal, the paranoid schizophrenic kid with a penchant for mowing down activists and anyone near ’em…

  44. ba
    Posted November 11, 2017 at 3:12 am | Permalink

    Do Jews run the world?

    Who controls Hollywood, Wall Street, the media, and the US government?

    Who calls for Middle Eastern wars?

    Why should the US go to war with 1.6 billion Muslims to protect 14 million Jews?

    Why can people criticize the Pope or Freemasons, but anyone who attacks the Jews are called trolls, bots, shills, spammers, nutjobs, or racists and are censored, banned, get IRS audits, are arrested, or killed?


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