Meryl Streep just made me tear up talking about the importance of empathy and the press

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182 Comments

  1. Posted January 8, 2017 at 11:43 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think she’ll be performing at the inauguration.

  2. Morbid Larson
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 12:20 am | Permalink

    Watching an old dude play music in Kenya is more interesting.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7LP6Ur3mAo

  3. Morbid Larson
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 12:38 am | Permalink

    Not to say that her speech wasn’t interesting.

  4. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 7:32 am | Permalink

    I would love it if Hollywood screwed off. Then real artists with unique visions would have space to flourish. Have not been to a Hollywood movie in eight years.

    So strange they have no criticism of the policies of someone like Obama; policies that have maimed and killed thousands of people and infringed on our rights. If DT makes a misstep on the public stage it’s crocodile tears time.

  5. Jean Henry
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 7:32 am | Permalink

    Trump tweets that Meryl Streep is an over-rated Hillary lover flunkee. Also he wasn;t making fun of a disabled person. He was making fun of a disabled person groveling.

    That’s our President, folks.

    Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump
    Meryl Streep, one of the most over-rated actresses in Hollywood, doesn’t know me but attacked last night at the Golden Globes. She is a…..
    6:27 AM – 9 Jan 2017
    6,323 6,323 Retweets 15,032 15,032 likes
    Follow
    Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump
    Hillary flunky who lost big. For the 100th time, I never “mocked” a disabled reporter (would never do that) but simply showed him…….
    6:36 AM – 9 Jan 2017
    3,727 3,727 Retweets 10,930 10,930 likes
    Follow
    Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump
    “groveling” when he totally changed a 16 year old story that he had written in order to make me look bad. Just more very dishonest media!

  6. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 7:37 am | Permalink

    “Watching an old dude play music in Kenya is more interesting.”

    Nice recording of some fine music.

  7. Anonymous
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 7:42 am | Permalink

    Praises Putin. Attacks Streep. Our President.

  8. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 7:54 am | Permalink

    I’d say her statement is a mega diss to independent artists. All we would have left if Hollywood had to pack it in is football and MMA? Uh, no. There are plenty of people with amazing art to fill that temporary void and then some. Sounds like they might be just a little bit nervous that people everywhere now have access to tools for creating high quality movies and more.

  9. Lynne
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 8:28 am | Permalink

    Yup. Even when they win, there is a certain sort of weak man who just feels threatened by it. Trump is obviously that kind of man. He is really emotionally fragile. That is of course why women need to keep standing up with strength and dignity as Streep did. The mere existence of awoman with a voice is threatening. Look at HW’s reaction here if you need an example of the weakness I am talking about.

  10. Jean Henry
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 8:55 am | Permalink

    Hyborian is very clearly the hero of his own narrative and everyone else is threatened by him.

  11. Jean Henry
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 8:55 am | Permalink

    especially Meryl Streep.

  12. Jean Henry
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    PS Kat really likes the nyatiti recordings. She comes running and paws at the screen. Maybe it sounds like bird song.

  13. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    Does using the word ‘narrative’ all the time make you feel smart, Jean?

  14. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    That’s funny, Lynne. All you people have is lame putdowns.

  15. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    You’ll never know the strength I have and that I believe every one of us has inside.

  16. Jean Henry
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    Hyborian does not understand the concept of a running joke. Or a joke apparently.

    “You’ll never know the strength I have and that I believe every one of us has inside.” — Hyborian’s heroes journey narrative steals a page from the girl power movement. Or maybe he is an author of those pseudo-spiritual business motivational posters.

  17. Jean Henry
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 10:03 am | Permalink

    For reference Hyborian, your words: “I don’t have a narrative because I’m not telling a story. I am paying attention to reality unlike almost everyone who posts here.”

  18. Christine M.
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    I have several conservative friends who were upset on fb because this is apparently not the forum for politics according to them. I didn’t find it to be an incredibly strong political statement. She was really just saying it’s important that we have the press and to be nice. Or am I missing something?

  19. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 10:07 am | Permalink

    I take inspiration from a lot of things and I don’t have to steal. You like to cut down people who factually expose your “narrative” (way overused pseudo-left jargon) for what it is: a bunch o’ bull. It’s so dull. This personal bickering is boring. It gets no one anywhere.

  20. Scott Trudeau
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    The bloviating cheetoh called it an attack; so apparently attacking bullying is an attack on Trump himself. Got it.

  21. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 10:10 am | Permalink

    I stand by that statement and believe it has been proven especially by all your comments, Jean. It’s al there for anyone who cares to look.

  22. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 10:11 am | Permalink

    *all* there

  23. Jean Henry
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    Hyborian– I have never denied that I have a political narrative or belief system. Everyone does. I do not think I am right. Or that anyone is right. I believe that collectively we get closer to right than we ever will alone.

    The belief that an individual’s capacity to ‘reason’ leads to him/her to the truth is dangerous. It’s also really really easy to disprove.

  24. Jean Henry
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    Hyborian– I have never denied that I have a political narrative or belief system. Everyone does. I do not think I am right. Or that anyone is right. I believe that collectively we get closer to right than we ever will alone.

    The belief that an individual’s capacity to ‘reason’ leads to him/her to the truth is dangerous. It’s also really really easy to disprove.

  25. Jean Henry
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    Hyborian– I have never denied that I have a political narrative or belief system. Everyone does. I do not think I am right. Or that anyone is right. I believe that collectively we get closer to right than we ever will alone.

    The belief that an individual’s capacity to ‘reason’ leads to him/her to the truth is dangerous. It’s also really really easy to disprove.

  26. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 10:15 am | Permalink

    When the press is a propaganda arm for the corrupt, war-obsessed, lying political establishment something is wrong.

  27. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    I find it bizarre to be averse to reason. How do you…figure things out?

  28. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    I see truth as asymptotic meaning you can never get there 100%. It’s a journey on which you can keep getting closer but you find there is always a better understanding out there somewhere.

  29. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 10:26 am | Permalink

    Belief Systems are B.S. Better to disavow belief in favor of processing as much information from as many viewpoints as possible. Then the world of knowledge opens up and you are no longer trapped in the Room Full Of Mirrors where “all you can see is you” to paraphrase Jimi Hendrix.

  30. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 10:28 am | Permalink

    “Take your spirit and smash those mirrors then the whole world is here for you to see.”

  31. Frosted Flakes
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    Jean,

    Prove it.

  32. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    Bloviating – nice word, had to look that one up!

  33. Kat
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    “It was that moment when the person asking to sit in the most respected seat in our country imitated a disabled reporter, someone he outranked in privilege and power and the capacity to fight back. It, it kind of broke my heart when I saw it and I still can’t get it out my head because it wasn’t in a movie. It was real life. And this instinct to humiliate when it’s modeled by someone in the public platform, by someone powerful, it filters down into everybody’s life because it kind of gives permission for other people to do the same thing. Disrespect invites disrespect. Violence incites violence. When the powerful use their position to bully others, we all lose.” -Meryl Streep

  34. Jean Henry
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

    Hyborian– I’m not averse to reason; I just have no faith in it.

    I figure things out by applying narrative to events, like everyone. Some people just call that reason. It’s usually self-delusion. Narratives are as dangerous as they are compelling.

    We can agree to disagree. And really, we must.

  35. Jean Henry
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

    Hyborian– you have a belief system. That’s very obvious.

  36. Jean Henry
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    Hyborian– see 13: Logic is a poor model of cause and effect. or 14: Causality does not work backward. Have fun!

    https://monoskop.org/images/c/c3/Bateson_Gregory_Mind_and_Nature.pdf

  37. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 1:26 pm | Permalink

    All you do is try to tell me about my belief system, Jean but it’s all bullshit. Logic is overrated for reasons I don’t think you would understand. Things can be internally logical but still false. What matters is what is true. If you find something more true than something I have said, well put it up and let’s see. You just “apply your narrative” and try to knock it down any way you can which is always B.S.

  38. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

    I mean you know you are deluding yourself but you are are going to stick with that plan. From my perspective that is one of the biggest problems in the world: not growing out of the room full of mirrors stage.

  39. Jean Henry
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

    Beautiful, you have tied yourself up in another Hyborian Knot. Your circular logic is an impenetrable fortress and I won’t bother trying to pierce it. I am simply messing with you in the most basic sense of the word.
    You really should read that link, at least the pages mentioned. You won’t disagree with it. It essentially repeats your points. You will not see how it relates to you, so it won’t threaten. You have a severe incapacity to see any weakness in your own argument. That makes them weak. Transparently so to most people. And that weakness is coupled with an excruciating sensitivity to those who can see the flaws in your thinking– pretty much everyone. It’s not unlike the Donald. You two make a great pair.

  40. Eel
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

    Most shocking for me was the revelation that Vince Vaughn is a Trump supporter.

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/mel-gibson-and-vince-vaughn-werent-feeling-meryl-streeps-anti-trump-speech/

  41. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    Explain how my logic is circular. See, you have to back up what you say. You put up a link yesterday that you thought proved your point but I easily showed how it applies to you and your beliefs, not mine. That’s a double whammy when someone can do that. Not only are you wrong but your own reasoning proves it.

  42. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

    I don’t give a damn what most people think, especially in a bubble like this. Most people are almost completely lost. That’s why we have to graduate from the “all I can see is me” mindset. That’s where you are stuck and it’s why everything you say is a reflection of yourself.

  43. Jcp2
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

    I know you are but what am I?

  44. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    Not what she says in my case. Jean is just flinging shit and has been since I started posting here. She never backs up what she says. I do.

  45. Fake Ass Bullshitter
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 2:44 pm | Permalink

    I’d love to hear a Hollywood lib complain or speak out against the 26,000 bombs ordered dropped by our Nobel Peace Prize winning Commander-In-Chief.

  46. Jean Henry
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    Intresting take: http://www.vulture.com/2017/01/hollywoods-protests-are-getting-to-trump.html?mid=full-rss-vulture

  47. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 2:49 pm | Permalink

    In 2016 alone! I’ve made that same point here, Fake Ass and no one wanted to touch it.

  48. Jean Henry
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

    Fake Ass Bullshitter: there was plenty. Here’s an hour or so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pitQnTblAQ0

  49. Jean Henry
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    that video veers way off course. There was no shortage of criticism of Obama from the left. His foreign policy was precisely what he ran on, but they were still shocked when he expanded the conflict into Afghanistan and threatened to go into Syria. (not going into Syria was a disastrous mistake with a larger humanitarian cost as any bombing raid we might have conducted, as a side note) Ed Asner spoke out against Obama’s drone strikes and ended up being a tool of Alex Jones and the alt-right. I’m sure that quieted some public people. I personally was opposed to both invasions into Iraq and invading Afghanistan. But once we created that shit show, I felt it was our duty to stabilize the region as best we could. So it is possible, to have opposed W’s positions and supported Obama’s. I actually also opposed the drone strikes, mostly because they are ineffective. I think we should have kept boots on the ground in Iraq and done more in Syria. It was easy to be against the invasion of Iraq. Things are more complicated now. I support the foreign policy position that I believe will result in the least destruction and loss of life. And dropping out of the middle east now will clearly not bring about that result. Being anti-war is a luxury. It’s also a dangerous fantasy. Not dangerous for us, but for those to whom we promised support.

  50. Jean Henry
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

    *The above is my opinion, stated plainly. Not an assertion of ‘fact.’ (for Bob and others who have aversion to women speaking forcefully with viewpoints different than their own)

  51. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

    Where are the celebrities?

  52. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    Pretty sure no one has a problem with what you say because you are a woman, Jean. It weakens your case to cry sexism like that.

  53. Jean Henry
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    Yes, so I am always told on this site and elsewhere… by men… about sexism. As far as they are concerned any argument made from the perspective of being a woman is weak. Which was my point, so…

    Back to Streep, there are people saying the Trump response to Streep was allowed to fuel the media flames and divert from other news: like appointing his son in law white house advisor and telling the nuclear security chiefs at the DOE to pack their bags without naming replacements (senate approval required)– just today so far. I’m sure there’s more.

  54. Lynne
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

    Yeah Jean. Stop trying to point out sexism. you are hurting Hyborian Weakling’s feelings by making strong, valid, points.

  55. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

    Looks like there are about three and you have to go way back through the years to find their comments.

  56. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    Sounds like you are trying to cut me down for being a man, Lynne. I can’t see how my comments would be any more or less valid if I was female.

  57. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

    That is an extremely weak argument you are making and it makes no difference to me what you have between your legs.

  58. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

    “Any argument made by a female is weak.” No, smears that can’t be backed up are weak no matter who says it.

  59. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

    Stop trying to deflect from these serious issues with bullshit and I will stop calling you on it.

  60. Jean Henry
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    “Me strong; you weak” — Hyborian’s central narrative. Trump’s too.

    http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/trump-and-celebrity-approval-you-cant-always-get-what-you-want

  61. Jean Henry
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    Yep. Trump tweets re Streep were definitely a diversion tactic. Fell for it again. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trumps-purge-of-non-loyalists-takes-shape_us_586f9b3ee4b08052400ee18c

  62. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    I just said like an hour ago each one of us possesses an inner strength. We can access it or not. It’s up to us. You are addicted to smears.

  63. wobblie
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

    What ever narrative Jean Henry has it is incoherent and confused. In one of her statements above she states she was opposed to both Iraq wars and the Afgan war, but feels that Obama make a mistake by not invading Syria. I don’t think that s/he engages in any independent analysis but simply states what ever makes her personal narrative seem moral to her.

    Our involvement in Syria is a war crime by International Standards. Any intervention, absent the invitation of the recognized government of Syria would be a war crime.
    Lamenting the fact that Obama did not commit more war crimes while in the same paragraph promoting one’s opposition to other war crimes, is the definition of hypocrisy, which explains much of the Democratic party’s failure these last 8 years.

    As far as Trump and his infantile sense of humor–he is of course despicable, as will be most of what he does–but he clearly is not yet controlled by the neocon war mongers. They will probably have him by the proverbial gonads by inauguration day and business will proceed as normal.

  64. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

    Right on, wobblie.

  65. Lynne
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    Re: “Sounds like you are trying to cut me down for being a man, Lynne. I can’t see how my comments would be any more or less valid if I was female.”

    For all I know you *are* a woman. I am basing my comments on yours entirely and your reaction to women who don’t speak in traditionally feminine ways speaks volumes. Your gender is irrelevant.

  66. Lynne
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

    I think there are things we could have done to help Syria that don’t involve war. For one thing, we could have opened our borders to ALL Syrian refugees and perhaps even sent transportation. We could still do that. There are other, creative things, we could do too. e.g. this is a water war and we could have helped Syria with their water problem. (although of course not without valid criticism for not helping the people of Flint with their water probelm first) While I disagree with Jean that ground troops would have been appropriate, I agree with her that as a nation, we have failed the people of Syria.

  67. Jean Henry
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

    The refugee crisis happened afterwards– because we didn’t go in and help them earlier. ISIS expanded in that vacuum. Russia stepped in to the vacuum and supported Assad against the rebels not ISIS as promised. We fucked that up. And Obama came close to admitting as much. He has said the Syrian crisis is the situation that weighs most heavily on him. And with reason. He tried a laissez-faire approach and it was a disaster.

    Sometimes liberal ideology is well intentioned (and even morally right) but politically and ethically wrong: See fracking and coal.

  68. Jean Henry
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

    http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/02/09/patience-isnt-always-a-virtue-obama-national-security-strategy/

  69. Jean Henry
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

    Someone asked for criticism of Obama’s foreign policy in war zones. I was happy to oblige. On Foreign Policy– or any policy–situations are terribly complex and involve imagining outcomes and scenarios. Many perspectives are valid. http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/12/29/obama-never-understood-how-history-works/

  70. Lynne
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    Getting involved in another nation’s civil wars though just seems like a bad idea. I don’t know.

    One of the reasons I would like to see the USA radically reduce defense spending is that then we will be in a position where we *can’t* intervene too much. The real question is: has the USA’s global interference been more positive than not. I tend to think not but am open to arguments from those who know more than I do about international relations.

    I am not sure how we could have intervened in Syria well. I am not sure that the outcome would have been better if we had. That is the kind of thing that is mostly unknowable though. Perhaps because of that, it is the sort of decision that should be left to the UN?

  71. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

    Your gender has no bearing on what I think of your opinions. That is complete bullshit and I think you know it. It’s purely a smear on someone who threatens you because I am fully able to back up my statements. You have to do that because you can’t back up one thing you say. It’s like “Oh shit, he’s making a point – get out the sexism/racism/whatever bullshit card quick.”

  72. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

    The USA has destabilized the Middle East going back to the 50’s. Iran was relatively progressive until the CIA put the Shah in power. They even admit it. How do you think our old pal Saddam got over in Iraq? Israel getting armed to the hilt? It’s a long-term game people like the Bush and Clinton families are playing that we are seeing the bloody consequences of. Enough of this shit. I just hope Trump doesn’t enable Israel more than those scumbags have already.

  73. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 8:42 pm | Permalink

    “I think there are things we could have done to help Syria that don’t involve war. For one thing, we could have opened our borders to ALL Syrian refugees and perhaps even sent transportation.”

    Do you want to be like Germany with women getting assaulted by immigrants on a massive scale? Would you be like “This is the result of decades of poor treatment by White men in the corridors of power such as DONALD TRUMP. It’s his fault they feel this way! If he was nicer they wouldn’t have done these things…”

    Scream bigotry all you want. I know that is not me. This is reality. There are consequences for ignoring it so you can live out your “narrative.”

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35231046

    The scale of the attacks on women at the city’s central railway station has shocked Germany. About 1,000 drunk and aggressive young men were involved.
    City police chief Wolfgang Albers called it “a completely new dimension of crime”. The men were of Arab or North African appearance, he said.
    Women were also targeted in Hamburg.
    But the Cologne assaults – near the city’s iconic cathedral – were the most serious, German media report. At least one woman was raped, and many were groped.
    Most of the crimes reported to police were robberies. A volunteer policewoman was among those sexually molested.

  74. Jean Henry
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

    Once again Hyborian you have failed to apprise me of any information or opinion that is new to me. It is all available on Breitbart etc. I’m not sure why I should believe you are an independent thinking, when I have heard all these points before, almost verbatim. Including the assaults in cologne. Violence against women, even gangs rapes or genocidal rapes are hardly a ‘new dimension’ in crime. It’s more like a very old dimension in crime. Your attempts to pin a proclivity to a particular kind of violence on various ethnicities and races is not borne out by the data. Horrifying anecdotes only lead one to question why you cherry pick those incidents, rather than go to the data.

    PS I never screamed bigotry. I expect every day sexism. It never surprises me and very rarely angers me. You appear to be getting a bit worked up.

  75. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 9:14 pm | Permalink

    Pretty sure in Germany this kind of mass assault is new. When has such a thing happened before? I never said it’s anyone’s proclivity. It’s just a fact it happened. It doesn’t matter if you’ve heard it before. You have described me and what you think my “beliefs” are a whole crapload of times and it’s all wrong.

    Your data sucks, guaranteed. There is a cover up of the scale of the problem. Yeah, I tend to get worked up when people lie to save face instead of admit they are wrong, especially when people are suffering tremendously.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3684302/1-200-German-women-sexually-assaulted-New-Year-s-Eve-Cologne-elsewhere.html
    A leaked report has revealed a staggering 1,200 were sexually abused in German cities during New Year’s Eve celebrations.
    The police document stated detectives believe 2,000 men were involved across various cities but that the bulk of the crimes were committed in Cologne and Hamburg where 600 and 400 sexual assaults on women were reported respectively.
    Of the 2,000 perpetrators, only 120 have been identified, and about half of them were foreign nationals who had only recently arrived in Germany.

  76. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 9:21 pm | Permalink

    1.200 women assaulted in one night, but phony feminists like you and Lynne don’t want to hear that because it goes against your “narrative.”

  77. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

    Screw everyone’s narrative. It’s reality time.

  78. Frosted Flakes
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 9:45 pm | Permalink

    Jean,

    I couldn’t find the chapters you were referring to in the Bateson book.

  79. Jean Henry
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 10:17 pm | Permalink

    Page 71. they are section titles not chapters.

    Kelly Anne Conway today on Trump’s disabled quip:
    “Why is everything taken at face value? You can’t give him the benefit of the doubt on this and he’s telling you what was in his heart? You always want to go by what’s come out of his mouth rather than look at what’s in his heart.”

  80. Jean Henry
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 10:28 pm | Permalink

    There were 90 reported assaults in Cologne and 10 in Hamburg. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/06/world/europe/coordinated-attacks-on-women-in-cologne-were-unprecedented-germany-says.html
    Not all of the assailants were refugees. Some kind of drunken mob madness. Mostly groping, not rapes. None of it is acceptable, so I hesitate to correct, but your ‘reality’ is so distorted, it seems necessary to correct. Coordinated sexual assaults on women were not unprecedented in Germany though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany

  81. Morbid Larson
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 10:52 pm | Permalink

    “Getting involved in another nation’s civil wars though just seems like a bad idea. I don’t know.”

    I am glad that you admit you don’t know, because you don’t. That’s somewhat respectable.

    The costs of doing nothing can be higher than the costs of doing something. I hear this mantra that all problems in the world are due to US intervention, when the “reality” is that a lot of problems in the world are far more complex than that.

    Now that the US is sidelining itself, we will watch the world become a very scary place. It has already begun. It will not affect you guys sitting happily in Ypsilanti, MI but will impact very real people over here… that a couple of you really do not at all care about.

    If it were up to some of the readership of MM.com, Al Shabab, for example, would be allowed to run free all over Somalia and Kenya and kill and rape at will. Personally, I don’t like that idea. Without the support of the US for the KDF and Kenyan intelligence, Al Shabab, would, in fact, do just that. Right now, the US does nothing in South Sudan while the SPLA also rape and kill at will. You guys are ok with that.

    The quip about “German women” was entertaining. Apparently, European women are to be protected at all costs, but dirty foreigners from the middle east are to be left to die on their own. The “reality” is that most refugees do not commit sexual assault and the most sexual assaults are committed by someone the victim knows (in the case of Germany, Germans).

    Mr. Warlord may not be a sexist, but one might conclude that he values the lives of Europeans over those of people everywhere else, or at least at the expense of people fleeing from very real misery.

    So the crux of this long rambling post is that Americans have no idea what’s going on the world because they can’t imagine because they have no context for it. You have all lived happy, safe lives in a functioning liberal democracy. You really cannot conceive of what life is like in places where people don’t have that luxury. And that’s ok, but what’s happened is that American ignorance is allowing isolation, which is going be disastrous for very real, living people in a complex world.

    Living in this part of the world, I am honestly frightened.

    At the very least, he can be accused of ignorance. Refugees are people, and given a choice, most people would rather not be refugees. Having been to refugee camps here, I can tell you that’s the case. Again, that’s “reality.”

  82. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 10:54 pm | Permalink

    Wrong again, Jean. They covered up a shitload of assaults as the leaked report shows.

  83. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 10:58 pm | Permalink

    One would be very wrong, Mr. Larson. By your standard of reasoning it could easily be said YOU don’t care about people in Africa and everywhere in the world having access to the most nutritious single food source that also comes with thousands of other uses from the same plant – and I am not talking about flax seed, dummy.

  84. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 11:09 pm | Permalink

    You don’ think if countries like the USA weren’t fucking shit up all these decades things would be so bad? That includes colonial powers and international corporations stealing resources from the people in Africa. You think all this shit is just organic fucked-upness? As worldly as you are you are shockingly ignorant.

  85. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 11:20 pm | Permalink

    You think the US government was “just trying to help” back in the day when they “got involved” in coups in Iran and Iraq and a whole lot of other places?

  86. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 11:24 pm | Permalink

    Talking about a mega crime wave absolutely associated with immigrants is entertaining, huh? Alright, bud. 1,000 assaults on women reported in two cities alone in one night. Very entertaining.

  87. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 11:28 pm | Permalink

    How many were not reported I wonder.

  88. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 11:30 pm | Permalink

    Die on their own? Pretty sure those 26,000 bombs dropped by Obama “helped” a lot of people die last year.

  89. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 11:33 pm | Permalink

    Don’t listen to me. I am just a “pothead”- who wants the world to be well-fed and stop this killing insanity.

  90. jean henry
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 6:09 am | Permalink

    For the record, I did not call Hybotian sexist. I said that some commenters have expressed frustration with women expressing their point of view without equivocation. I pointed to Bob and was clearly not talking to Hyborian. Hyborian replied that my ‘cries of sexism’ undermines my argument. (And I didn’t say the words sexism or sexist, I merely identified an experience that Hyborian identified on his own as sexist) Whether or not my account was gender bias, it appears that Hyborian dismisses any mention of gender inequity out of hand. And yeah, that’s sexist. (So now I have called him sexist) That’s not just an isolated example of sexism (we all do it) but an example of how a person comes to be sexist– meaning gender bias is a lens through which he views the world. wholesale dismissal of the validity of any gender bias defines what being a sexist is. Just as wholesale dismissal of the validity of racial bias defines what it is to be racist.

  91. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 7:21 am | Permalink

    I stand by that statement. I do not believe Bob said anything to the effect that women should speak softly. It’s just another bullshit thing to try pinning on someone whose opinions you don’t like.

    “Dismisses any mention of gender inequity out of hand” What a bunch of bullshit. How do you get through the day being so full of it?

  92. Jean Henry
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 7:31 am | Permalink

    Bob, in fact, on another thread, criticized Lynne and I for stating our opinion as facts, while ignoring that every one in a comment section states opinions as facts. (Except you, Hyborian, who confuses your opinions for facts.) He has also suggested, as you did, that feminism weakens our arguments. Which I took, rightly or wrongly, to mean that my perspective as a woman is irrelevant. I hope I am wrong and will wait for you to show me otherwise.

    Here is some good news, I’m sure you welcome as someone who respects all people: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/sworn-1st-somali-american-lawmaker-doors-open-44603163

  93. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 7:37 am | Permalink

    How does criticizing someone for stating opinions as facts equal sexism? I did not say feminism weakens your arguments. I said crying sexism where it does not exist weakens your argument. See how this actually works?

  94. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 7:44 am | Permalink

    You and Lynne in particular do present opinions as fact to a far greater extent than anyone else I have seen here. You misinterpret facts to to fit your opinion as I have shown many times. You both shovel a whole pile of bullshit every day and mix it with insults.

  95. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    You say “everyone in a comment section states opinions as fact.” That is the room full of mirrors effect. Just because YOU can’t imagine what it would be like not doing that does not mean other people do it.

  96. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    2008: $10.6 trillion national debt
    2017: $20 trillion

    Guess what? We pay interest on that debt. Obama, Bush and Reagan are largely responsible. Bill Clinton enjoyed the good fortune of presiding over the rise of the tech industry and the associated stock market bubble. Has the press hammered home the insanity of this behavior or do they largely sweep it under the rug do you think? From my perspective we have been fleeced and set up for a fall.

  97. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 9:05 am | Permalink

    But we HAVE to spend trillions to “help the situation” in countries like Iraq and Afghanistan and Libya and Yemen, right?

  98. maryd
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 9:08 am | Permalink

    I found the speech by Meryl also very moving. Unlike the bullshit posted here by the warlord…

  99. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    What do you think is bullshit and why, maryd?

  100. Lynne
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    Peter, sure. I agree that isolationism isnt the answer. But each program needs to be evaluated constantly and abandoned if it is doing more harm than good. Luckily, we have agencies set up to do this. I still dont like the idea of ground troops intervening in another countries civil war. What I would like to see is more power going to the UN and then having the US commit resources, including troops if necessary, to UN sanctioned actions.

  101. Fake Ass Bullshitter
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    Hyborian,
    It’s like talking to a recording. They’ll just play the same old narrative. If you present them with facts, they’ll resort to personal attacks and insults.

  102. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 10:05 am | Permalink

    True

  103. jean henry
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 10:07 am | Permalink

    If it makes you feel any better, Hyborian, I just got into a spat with a group of women who were slut-shaming Melania Trump and legitimizing it on supposed feminist grounds.

    You so misinterpret my point of view (and think I do the same) that I don’t believe there is any possibility of reaching understanding. It’s an impasse. I am perfectly capable of backing up my claims but don’t have time or energy. And I have a lot of energy…

  104. Hagopian Handmaid
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 10:11 am | Permalink

    EOS warned you when you started. Why didn’t you listen? Think of all the productive things others could have accomplished if they didn’t have to spend days refuting you. Breitbart has a comment section.

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2017/01/09/virgil-arguments-from-bad-authority-how-the-mainstream-media-tries-to-trick-you/

  105. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    Not saying there is absolutely nothing to the mocking angle (he does seem to do it slightly more exaggerated when talking about the reporter) but clearly this type of body language has been used by Trump before when talking about non-disabled people, perhaps even himself in the case of the Larry King interview.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8JqT2atxD8

  106. Lynne
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    Defending a bully for mocking the disabled is almost as disgusting as doing it in the first place, imho.

  107. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    Jean, if you can’t back it up don’t say it That’s the best policy.

    Hagopian, I think it is interesting to see what people think on a blog based in the local area. Not sure I have a whole lot more time to spend here but we will see. Never really visited Breitbart much. For discussing information and ideas I’ll probably stick mostly to the UK-based forum I have posted on for a long time. For gathering info the world is my oyster. :) Do not think anyone has refuted my posts hardly at all. Jean might have had a point about the Motor Voter Act but that’s probably inconclusive.

  108. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 10:37 am | Permalink

    That’s funny because your behavior is the most bullying on this blog by far, Lynne. I just put up video evidence proving that claim is overblown but you just want to shout me down. Bullies hate it when someone stands up to them and that is what our interactions here show.

  109. Lynne
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    HW, please do NOT at any time think that because no one has refuted your posts, it means that they can’t. In my case, it is often that I have determined that what you posted was so obviously idiotic that it isn’t worth my time, as in, anyone with half a brain can see right through you.

  110. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    You could do it if you wanted to, huh? Funny shit!

  111. Fake Ass Bullshitter
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    Hyborian,
    Lynne had no argument so she proceeded to insult you, typical.

  112. ripped from the pages of FB
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

    Here is what will Happen. What was once a Crime, will not be a Crime anymore. What was once a ‘Conflict of Interest’ will no longer be because there will be no Ethics. What once was Stupid will now be Smart because more Stupid people say it is.
    Lost in the hub-bub over Meryl Streep’s measured criticism of the President-Elect on Sunday night, which included a reprise of damning him for mocking a disabled reporter, and then the social media maelstrom over his boorish, absolutely predictable response – that the most celebrated, arguably greatest actor who ever lived was the most overrated ever, that she had no credibility to criticize him because ‘she doesn’t know’ him and, again, despite the plain, blunt, videotaped evidence he did not, in fact mock the reporter’s disability only his ‘grovelling’ after ‘changing his story in order to hurt me (the President Elect).
    Uh-huh. Any of you remember how and why this Washington Post reporter (Serge Kovalski) became entwined in this saga to begin with?
    After the President-Elect had, in the party primary stage of the campaign, recalled watching ‘video’ of thousands of Arab’s celebrating the fall of the World Trade Center and being called out on that memory’s absolute falsehood this narrative of citation (where any random sentence carried the weight of a recorded Supreme Court Sentence) began to emerge. Read the following excerpt from a 2015 Wapo article.
    “Some readers have tweeted to The Fact Checker a Washington Post article from Sept. 18, 2001, as evidence of Trump’s claim. The article, which appeared on page 6, described FBI probes in northern New Jersey after the attacks, saying in the 15th paragraph that “law enforcement authorities detained and questioned a number of people who were allegedly seen celebrating the attacks and holding tailgate-style parties on rooftops while they watched the devastation on the other side of the river.”
    Of course, “a number of people” obviously does not equal “thousands” — and “allegedly” indicates there is no video footage or other proof that celebrations actually took place. Recall that Trump claimed he saw this on television — and that it was “well covered at the time.” This newspaper article appeared days later.
    The reporters who wrote the story do not recall whether the allegations were ever confirmed. “I certainly do not remember anyone saying that thousands or even hundreds of people were celebrating,” said Serge Kovaleski, one of the reporters. “That was not the case, as best as I can remember.”​
    That polite dismissal of racist fantasy and nonsense was the whole sum of the ‘grovelling’ Trump was inspired to recreate at a rally. The reporter accurately cited the truth. There were investigations into a purported handful of incidents but, because he was polite enough to end his remark with the reflexive, rejoinder ‘as best I can remember’ he earned him the scorched-earth scorn of what is now, unbelievably, the next President of the United States. Kovelski wouldn’t allow a grotesque lie to endure and has been receiving daily death threats for a year and a half. .
    But that’s not what I’m writing about. Even in the day and a half since, snorkeling beneath the Us. v. Them Twitter shitstorm about the Golden Globes far more heinous stuff is occurring under the radar – Trump’s Son-in-law is now a Senior White House adviser while divesting himself of no private business interests (and while negotiating with a huge Chinese manufacturer) . Trump is divesting himself of nothing (on one hand because he can’t – the debt of his brilliant businesses outweighs their value and, on the other hand…wait for that to change right away). Jeff Sessions confirmation hearings start tomorrow, as do several other proposed Cabinet members in the days ahead, despite most not being cleared of perfunctory examinations by the Ethics Committee. It seemed a rare adult moment when Trump, with a Tweet, halted the new Congress numb-nutted attempt to simply eliminate the Ethics Committee. It is now more clear that he just wanted to move it out of the news cycle and act like it didn’t exist.
    I am writing this for Nothing. All of you already agree. The Trumpeter who, one would hope, might be converted by a ‘Mr. Smith goes to Washington’-esque pile of fact departed two sentences in with something like ‘#FuCKlibtards. YoU LOstBIg GRows Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!’
    Imagine how much swifter things might have gone in Stalinist Russia, Mao’s China or Nazi Germany with Twitter…where you could just shit out your subconscious, call it Manna and then endlessly cite links that say its true, even though it’s all made up.
    It’s so close to being over. The greatest, most conflicted achievement of Western Thought. It’s almost over.

  113. maryd
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

    HW is just another bully. Shoots questions too fast…doesn’t wait or really want answers. OVERPOSTS! Bullies some of the most thoughtful people who post. Just keeps up with the BS…reminiscent of the one I do not mention.

  114. Lynne
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    I can’t help thinking that the GOP is allowing Trump to continue as he has been because they know what he is doing makes him very impeachable. I suspect they will hold that over his head and use it to control him in a way similar to how if he is really in debt to Russia for big bucks, it might be something Putin has on him. Although on that point, since Trump has no issues stiffing those he owes, probably diminishes that as something to control him.

  115. Lynne
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    maryd, yeah. Sometimes the only way you can effectively deal with a bully is to ignore them especially when they are not in a position of power. Unfortunately our Bully-in-Chief elect is about to have more power than anyone. It is downright scary but I still have faith in the common decency of most Americans even with HW trying to convince everyone that Americans are truly horrible people.

  116. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    Anyone can look back on all my posts here. Especially considering the treatment by you, Lynne I have been extraordinarily kind. The worst thing I have said is you are (factually) full of shit and that is absolutely warranted based on your behavior. You have embarrassed yourself repeatedly on your own site. I have a whole lot more truth to dish out but it is more than clear you are not ready for the slightest bit of it. Keep the “narrative” (stories you tell yourself) going. I will continue to do what I have done for a long time and that is seek out some kind of truth in this mad world.

  117. Jcp2
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

    I’m not sure how this is Lynne’s site. I thought it was Mark’s. Unless Mark has a secret identity that I’m not aware of.

  118. jean henry
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

    Remember JCP2 we are cronies of Mark’s, financially entwined and in collusion? Lynne must be in on it. Cronie bloggery.

  119. jean henry
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    Hyborian is a gentleman and a humanitarian commited to truth and fairness, and those who question him are crazy full of shit bitches. If only we appreciated him enough. He has some truth he’s holding back because we couldn’t handle it!
    No narrative there.
    No gaslighting either.
    Hyborian– you’re not the nice decent fellow you believe.
    I admit I can be a nasty woman given cause, but at least I don’t pretend otherwise.

  120. jean henry
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

    More fun:
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/10/politics/donald-trump-intelligence-report-russia/index.html

  121. jean henry
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 7:39 pm | Permalink

    And we thought Monica Lewinski was bad. If this is accurate. That’s some rich treasonous perversion.
    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984-Trump-Intelligence-Allegations.html

  122. ripped from the pages of FB
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 10:26 pm | Permalink

    I guess this clarifies what they meant by “soft sensuality” at the inauguration.
    The jokes are endless.
    There’s video of his plane getting a ‘water salute’ at LaGuardia this morning.
    But truly it only matters if his campaign colluded with Russia. If he was compromised and he capitulated in some way, or struck deals. That’s treason. What a fool to fall for that in Russia. Oy. The sad thing is that his sexual proclivities will matter more to America than his autocratic tendencies, bigotry, disrespect for the constitution or mental volatility. https://twitter.com/samfbiddle/status/818967807811526656

  123. Lynne
    Posted January 10, 2017 at 10:50 pm | Permalink

    I wish this was my blog because then I would be Mark which would mean I would be better looking. LOL

  124. iRobert
    Posted January 11, 2017 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

    I know that we have a vast array of differing political opinions here amongst the commenters on MarkMaynard.com, but I think it is in all of our interests, from the far right to the far left, to help Jean Henry find a job.

  125. site admin
    Posted January 11, 2017 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    I can’t figure you out, iRobert. You disappear for months and then just run past a post about Trump enjoying water sports (and engaging in treason) to take a swing at Jean Henry in an old thread about Meryl Streep. I thought you’d be all over the spy stuff. You make no sense to me.

  126. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 17, 2017 at 8:18 am | Permalink

    Total hypocrisy. I knew something was wrong with her a long time ago when she was the first to jump to her feet in ovation to child rapist in exile Roman Polanski. So it was easy to see those were crocodile tears against Trump. I guess God is dead, huh Meryl?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsDjczlpksM

  127. Iron Lung
    Posted October 17, 2017 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    Fuck Trump. Who cares?

  128. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 17, 2017 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    High quality shit there. Just bury everything real in a pile of nihilistic crap.

  129. Jean Henry
    Posted October 17, 2017 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    Ha! I missed being trolled. iRobert– I have a job. Many in fact. And I support myself and my kids without any financial help from their fathers. I have been working since I was 14, earlier if you count farm chores. I’ve been a homeowner and landlord since I was 20. It’s not easy, and I don’t sleep much. Because, as of now, I am still free lance, I make my own hours– and they are admittedly odd hours. If you see me on here at 2am, it’s because I’m working and taking a break. I’m sorry I don’t conform to you idea of diligence. Well not really…

    HW– There is really nothing quite so easy as finding evidence of human hypocrisy. It’s meaningless and boring. We are all hypocrites.

  130. Iron Lung
    Posted October 17, 2017 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

    Why does a US President need to be defended at all costs? Why would anyone want to take the time out to protect a President against any and ever slight? Seems a waste of time and energy.

    I just don’t get it, but then, I don’t get football either.

  131. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 17, 2017 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    It’s just funny to see all your lines of reasoning get destroyed, that’s all. Trump goes against the globalists. That’s why they hate him and that is why he is worth defending. Everything they have tried has failed. Hollywood is fucked. Russian collusion is garbage. Look at this shit. Just like Hollywood, it’s incredible how they try to pin what they do on someone else.

    http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/355749-fbi-uncovered-russian-bribery-plot-before-obama-administration

  132. Iron Lung
    Posted October 18, 2017 at 1:50 am | Permalink

    What “lines of reasoning?”

    The only line of reasoning I have presented to you is that in elementary school one learns not to call any woman a “dumb bitch.”

    You seem to be fighting with people who aren’t there.

  133. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 18, 2017 at 6:17 am | Permalink

    I can’t believe how moronic that is. You individually have said a whole lot of different bullshit on this blog. My comment was directed at the collective “you”. “Your” lines of reason here on mm.com are falling apart.

  134. Sad
    Posted October 18, 2017 at 6:53 am | Permalink

    Lines of Reason on mm.com – you have to be kidding? Do you even read this stuff? The main reason to read the comments here is for their absurdist quality. Someone on here was going on about how they don’t believe in logic arguing with someone who thinks god holds his hand while he crosses the street. Line of reason – give me a break HW – maybe they are right about you?

  135. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 18, 2017 at 7:01 am | Permalink

    I’m responding directly to MM’s OP so I don’t see the relevance of whatever you are talking about. If you are all just shoveling as much bullshit as you can with no regard to reality then I guess it is foolish to engage you. I still enjoy that lurkers can see it though.

  136. Sad
    Posted October 18, 2017 at 7:05 am | Permalink

    OP?

  137. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 18, 2017 at 7:10 am | Permalink

    It stands for original post. In this case it is just a headline “Meryl Streep just made me tear up talking about the importance of empathy and the press” and a vid of Meryl “Harvey Weinstein is GOD” Streep.

  138. Sad
    Posted October 18, 2017 at 7:19 am | Permalink

    HW have you ever heard of Don Quixote?

  139. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 18, 2017 at 7:27 am | Permalink

    Why don’t you like talking about anything as soon as it gets real?

  140. Sad
    Posted October 18, 2017 at 7:34 am | Permalink

    Because it makes me…..Sad.

  141. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 18, 2017 at 7:35 am | Permalink

    Ohhh, okaaay…

  142. Sad
    Posted October 18, 2017 at 7:41 am | Permalink

    I do hope you do continue though. You do bring that point – counter point feel to this comment section. I save all my deep thoughts for the comment section on M Live – there are a lot of in depth debates over there . Best of luck!

  143. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 18, 2017 at 8:00 am | Permalink

    I’m sure they get right down to the real nitty gritty over at mlive.

  144. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 18, 2017 at 8:17 am | Permalink

    “Someone on here was going on about how they don’t believe in logic”

    If you don’t understand logic can be misused to come to a false conclusion then you don’t understand logic. If you have incorrect assumptions logic can take you anywhere you want to go. If you claim all apples are good and all people like good things then you might conclude all people like all apples. It is in fact logical within the framework you constructed but it is not true is it?

  145. Jean Henry
    Posted October 18, 2017 at 11:28 am | Permalink

    “I save all my deep thoughts for the comment section on M Live – there are a lot of in depth debates over there ” — best comment ever on MM

    HW — I was the one who said I don’t believe in logic (several times on this site) , for very much the reasons you state. It’s often used to justify behavior or ‘prove’ a pre-conceived narrative.
    So we agree on something.

    Now stop trying to win. We are all here to work out our thinking and learn.

  146. Posted October 18, 2017 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    I have to step in here in defense of logic… HW, your conclusion is false because the quantities aren’t modified in the propositions. Unmodified subjects are universal, and unmodified prepositions are particular, so the two propositions could be restated as: all apples are good, and all people like some good things. The conclusion then is: some people like all apples. Of course, not all apples are good, so the conclusion is still false. You can, of course, get false conclusions from false premises, but logic helps prevent that.

  147. Posted October 18, 2017 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

    “Quantities aren’t specified in the propositions,” I mean. Logic doesn’t help with typos!

  148. Posted October 18, 2017 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

    And that should be “unmodified predicates” are particular. Ha! Obviously, I should take a nap rather than post…

  149. Jean Henry
    Posted October 18, 2017 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

    Doug– You are absolutely correct. Unfortunately there are posters here who believe their logic is infallible. I believe all logic is fallible, because it is derived at by the human mind. I also believe the lesson of the 20th century was that certainty of any kind should be questioned. These are beliefs, maybe they are even conclusions derived at by logical processes, but they are not facts.

  150. Posted October 18, 2017 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

    JH — Absolutely, all human logic is fallible. It’s still a useful tool for some purposes, like understanding flaws in arguments, just like arithmetic is a useful tool for counting your change. That’s all…

  151. Iron Lung
    Posted October 18, 2017 at 11:40 pm | Permalink

    Very few comments today.

  152. Sad
    Posted October 19, 2017 at 6:52 am | Permalink

    What is there to say when reason and logic fail?

  153. Jean Henry
    Posted October 19, 2017 at 7:19 am | Permalink

    SAD: “Logic will take you from A to B; imagination will take you everywhere.” — Einstein

    “Logic: The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding.” — Ambrose Pierce

    “The language of judicial decision is mainly the language of logic. And the logical method and form flatter that longing for certainty and for repose which is in every human mind. But certainty generally is illusion, and repose is not the destiny of man.” –Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.

    The logical functions (left brain) separated from emotional centers (right brain) are incapable of making any decision whatsoever. It’s completely hobbling. You can not make a conclusion without emotion/imagination participating in the process. This may or may not be a design flaw.
    https://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight

  154. Sad
    Posted October 19, 2017 at 7:45 am | Permalink

    Then what’s the problem with HWs fantasy world? His imagination seems to have no limits.

  155. Iron Lung
    Posted October 19, 2017 at 7:56 am | Permalink

    That gentleman is fighting a lonely war.

  156. Jean Henry
    Posted October 19, 2017 at 8:08 am | Permalink

    Sad– “Logic: The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding.”
    HW is clearly using both sides to confirm a false narrative. She is for sure tilting at windmills, fighting ghosts, whatever. I imagine the conflict she feels is deeply internal. If she were arguing with the rest of us, the discourse might be more interesting. As is, she is a just a character. The name she uses here, a warrior from an comic book pre-historic world, is appropriate.

  157. Iron Lung
    Posted October 19, 2017 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    We need to populate this blog with right wingers and Trumpists, because they don’t seem to have many friends.

  158. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 20, 2017 at 6:56 am | Permalink

    It’s boring trying to talk to morons. That’s about it. Morons who can’t even discuss anything real. It’s like “Ohp. we have no leg to stand on – let’s just talk a bunch of nonsense to try to bury everything he says. That’ll do it!”

  159. Sad
    Posted October 20, 2017 at 7:34 am | Permalink

    HW – I think President Bush was talking to you!

  160. Jean Henry
    Posted October 20, 2017 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    We bore each other HW. It’s a natural impasse. Neither of us really has any interest in what the other says. I’m totally ok with that. Have a great life.

  161. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 20, 2017 at 7:55 am | Permalink

    So what? He’s a globalist scumbag just like the Clinton’s. You like two coke running criminal families running our country? If you haven’t watched any documentaries about it like I told you to then don’t talk shit. Oh, yeah it’s just craaazy to even THINK about it so you will refuse to educate yourself. That’s okay if that is what you want but don’t use ad hominem to try and bullshit your way out of it.

  162. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 20, 2017 at 8:05 am | Permalink

    Jean, the problem with that is you have to lie to be able to say that at all. I’ll school you and then later you’ll be like “I have no idea what you are talking about. You’re crazy/irrelevant/blah blah…” It happened just the other day. You did that, then I showed you what you had said and you never said anything else about it. When you attack me you had better be prepared to back it up.

  163. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 20, 2017 at 8:21 am | Permalink

    “HW is clearly using both sides to confirm a false narrative.” Oh, CLEARLY. Just ’cause you say it without any kind of argument it’s just absolutely CLEAR.

    I don’t know what’s up with trolling me by saying ‘she’. That just makes you look like an idiot. Here you are paraphrasing a weak ad hominem MM already overused on this blog: “The name she uses here, a warrior from an comic book pre-historic world, is appropriate.”
    At least Maynard understands The Hyborian Age is from (great) books by Robert E. Howard. The comic books came way after that. So condescending and smug, but so ignorant.

  164. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 20, 2017 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    “His imagination seems to have no limits.”

    Wow. Now that I think about it that is probably one of the most amazing compliments I have ever heard. Thank you. I’m not bothered that you meant it to disparage my knowledge because it doesn’t really do that does it? It’s just an ad hominem looked at from that perspective. To be seen as having a limitless imagination though…that tells me what I say sinks in on some level. Subconsciously you are impressed.

  165. Iron Lung
    Posted October 20, 2017 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    Those books are quite good.

  166. Jean Henry
    Posted October 20, 2017 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

    If I read then will they dramatically alter my perspective on HW or even Just the Conan series? Will reading them release my ignorance, shed the scales from my eyes, open up the portal to her brilliance and make her meaning and perpetual outrage clear.

    As for gender, HW, how would I know? You are anonymous and use an imaginary persona. I’ve got a 50/50 chance of being right with female, actually a slightly better than 50/50 chance of being accurate with feminine pronouns. Why do you care?

  167. wobblie
    Posted October 20, 2017 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

    HW some more of your good buddies like the one’s in Charlotsville
    http://www.timesunion.com/news/texas/article/3-arrested-after-shooting-following-white-12293554.php

  168. Dave
    Posted October 20, 2017 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    Welcome back Doug.

    So, this week is National Character Counts Week. I pulled the quote below from Kat’s post quoting Meryl from the original post. I believe the observation is true regardless of who said it in what context. It could be further generalized to apply to all rather than just those in a position of power.

    “And this instinct to humiliate when it’s modeled by someone in the public platform, by someone powerful, it filters down into everybody’s life because it kind of gives permission for other people to do the same thing. Disrespect invites disrespect. Violence incites violence. When the powerful use their position to bully others, we all lose.” -Meryl Streep

  169. Dave
    Posted October 20, 2017 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

    My 2 cents regarding belief, reasoning and logic. There is an article that was written by Charles S. Peirce for Popular Science Monthly in 1877 called “The Fixation of Belief”. It is short and one of his easier pieces to read. Here is a nice quote from it:

    “Doubt is an uneasy and dissatisfied state from which we struggle to free ourselves and pass into the state of belief; while the latter is a calm and satisfactory state which we do not wish to avoid, or to change to a belief in anything else. On the contrary, we cling tenaciously, not merely to believing, but to believing just what we do believe.”

    He goes on to talk about the different ways that we move from doubt to belief – charismatic personalities, authority, deduction, scientific method.

    Well worth the read:

    http://www.peirce.org/writings/p107.html

  170. Dave
    Posted October 20, 2017 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

    There are a couple of first principles that Socrates held that seem ridiculous on the surface. One was that all people seek the good. People who commit bad acts are only in ignorance of the true Good- that they are seeking a smaller, more transient good at the expense of a larger more permanent one.

    The other strange first principle he held was that it is better to suffer an injustice than to commit one, and that it is better to seek justice for errors you have made than to get away with something… that your eternal soul is somehow diminished by this.

    The Cardinal Virtues ( Wisdom, Temperance, Courage, Justice ) are thought of as habits of mind that lead one to think and act in accord with the Good. And the exercise of those habits are what reveal your character.

    Socrates reasons that if he and others pursue the unchanging, eternal Good then the right actions will be self evident. If temporal goods are pursued ( which are always in a state of flux ) then you will eventually find yourself in a muddle of contradictions.

    I know it is not popular to talk about eternal, unchanging things… about Theos and Forms. But to try to affix Good, Truth, Beauty, etc. to things subject to change is like building sandcastles. We do accept the idea of Equality though and don’t seem to have trouble understanding the truth and consistency it produces when taken seriously.

  171. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 20, 2017 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    “wobblie
    Posted October 20, 2017 at 2:33 pm | Permalink
    HW some more of your good buddies like the one’s in Charlotsville
    http://www.timesunion.com/news/texas/article/3-arrested-after-shooting-following-white-12293554.php

    That’s disgusting to try to associate me with racists just because you don’t like me. Why would you do that?

  172. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 20, 2017 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

    “Jean Henry
    Posted October 20, 2017 at 2:16 pm | Permalink
    If I read then will they dramatically alter my perspective on HW or even Just the Conan series? Will reading them release my ignorance, shed the scales from my eyes, open up the portal to her brilliance and make her meaning and perpetual outrage clear.
    As for gender, HW, how would I know? You are anonymous and use an imaginary persona. I’ve got a 50/50 chance of being right with female, actually a slightly better than 50/50 chance of being accurate with feminine pronouns. Why do you care?”

    You would know because I told you when you did it before. You reuse one-liners that were stale to begin with. It’s not only trolling but it’s low quality.

  173. Jean Henry
    Posted October 20, 2017 at 7:51 pm | Permalink

    HW– Yes, I know. My point was we have no reason to believe you. About gender or anything really. You are anonymous. Anonymous users lie on the internet all the time, For someone who clearly spends a lot of time on the internet researching conspiracies, you seem to have little understanding of what happens here…

  174. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 20, 2017 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

    Your tone is unintentionally hilarious. It’s so condescending but dumb… “For someone who clearly spends a lot of time on the internet researching conspiracies, you seem to have little understanding of what happens here.”

  175. Sad
    Posted October 21, 2017 at 4:01 am | Permalink

    HW – I would never engage in ad – hominem attacks or gaslighting. I might disagree with the things you say, but I try not to make it personal. Sorry if I crossed that line at any point.

    Yes your imagination is wonderful and unlimited. As much as I enjoy your views I often don’t agree, but I’m glad you have them and that you share them and that MM provides you another outlet to do so.

    I wasn’t surprised when Trump won, I knew many people who supported him openly and covertly. It’s great that someone like you reminds certain people that not every one thinks like them. And it’s amusing how upsetting you are to some, go figure.

    Anonymity is a wonderful thing, enjoy it. There are many articles on line praising the virtues and benefits of anonymity. People who use their real names lie also. Why not be a warlord if that’s something that interest you.

    We just need MM to give you some meaty political polemic to get you going.

    But I can’t believe you like Trump, he is, quite frankly a clown and a buffoon. But to each their own. At least he’s not running cocaine………..

  176. Iron Lung
    Posted October 22, 2017 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

    trump is a clown and a buffoon.

  177. Jean Henry
    Posted October 22, 2017 at 7:29 pm | Permalink

    I’m sorry SAD, but have you really been reading HW’s posts? Because all he does lately is ad hominem attacks, silver back gorilla chest-pounding and repeat the occasional conspiracy theory. I know a lot of Trump supporters, and most are easy to talk to about this stuff. They are not mad conspiracy theorists, but they are suspicious of govt and wall street and now they are suspicious of Trump. Though many do think we’re all ‘ganging up on him.’ I even know a few conspiracy theory inclined people who are more informed and interesting than HW. They are all going on about multiple shooters and/or false flag incriminations in LV. It’s incredibly stupid, and often cruel to survivors, but at least they are presenting their point of view without screaming at others (mostly).

    I’m not sure why HW elicits your sympathy, but I suggest you, at minimum, balance his ad hominem tally against others next to those against him, before expressing sympathy. No one here is bullying HW. Quite the opposite. Most of us are trying to ignore her.

  178. Jean Henry
    Posted October 22, 2017 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

    SAD– If HW is the only Trump supporter you have exposure to, I really suggest you go out and seek more. He is not representative. Here’s a good portrait of a Trump supporter that more closely reflects the perspective of those I know. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/14/us/union-jobs-mexico-rexnord.html

  179. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 23, 2017 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    Conspiracy theories would be a lot easier to dismiss if they didn’t keep turning out to be true. If I use ad hominems or shit talking it is out of exasperation. You either play dumb or you are dumb, Jean. No one could be so ignorant. I post circles around you every time you engage me in an issue.

    My first post in this thread:

    “Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 7:32 am | Permalink
    I would love it if Hollywood screwed off. Then real artists with unique visions would have space to flourish. Have not been to a Hollywood movie in eight years.
    So strange they have no criticism of the policies of someone like Obama; policies that have maimed and killed thousands of people and infringed on our rights. If DT makes a misstep on the public stage it’s crocodile tears time.”

    Second related post:

    “Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 7:54 am | Permalink
    I’d say her statement is a mega diss to independent artists. All we would have left if Hollywood had to pack it in is football and MMA? Uh, no. There are plenty of people with amazing art to fill that temporary void and then some. Sounds like they might be just a little bit nervous that people everywhere now have access to tools for creating high quality movies and more.”

    Jean’s response:

    “Jean Henry
    Posted January 9, 2017 at 8:55 am | Permalink
    Hyborian is very clearly the hero of his own narrative and everyone else is threatened by him.”

    I post coherent thoughts that anyone can respond to but you don’t do it. You just shit out smug but ignorant ad hominem crap like this.

  180. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 23, 2017 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

    How about how snuggly Biliary Blinton has been with Harvey “God” Weinstein over the years? You think the Weinstein scandal is not that big a deal or the tip of a mega iceberg? Vindication comes fast nowadays.

  181. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 23, 2017 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    If you teared up listening to Meryl you got suckered by an actress feigning distress over Trump’s words. The same one who deified Weinstein, the monster sex-abusing producer! I told you right away they were crocodile tears. If I am so wacky why am I correct so often?

  182. Posted October 24, 2017 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    Thanks, Dave! I do check in to see what Mark is up to (I knew him before he started this blog), but I don’t live in Ypsi, and don’t have anything to say about local issues. And I’m busy, and don’t spend much time online. Thanks for the Peirce link; I should read more of him. For some reason, doubt doesn’t bother me, and I often find it a good idea to suspend judgment when there’s not enough evidence.

    Jean — Emotion/imagination is just as fallible as reason; that’s why we need both of them. Why work with only half a brain?

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