Democratic debate open thread

I don’t like primary debates, but I listened last night, and I’m listening again tonight. I have nothing terribly interesting or insightful to say, but, as I suspect that some of you might want to weigh in, I thought I’d start uo an open thread. So, have at it.

This entry was posted in Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink. Post a comment or leave a trackback: Trackback URL.

281 Comments

  1. iRobert
    Posted June 27, 2019 at 9:36 pm | Permalink

    I really like this Jerry Springer Show format BSNBC has put together. It really helps.

  2. iRobert
    Posted June 27, 2019 at 9:54 pm | Permalink

    Senator Harris is good when she’s being serious. But every time she is in situations where she loosens up, I can practically hear her poll numbers dropping.

  3. iRobert
    Posted June 27, 2019 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    Mayor Pete seemed to do alright and may have recovered a bit on the race issues.

  4. iRobert
    Posted June 27, 2019 at 10:10 pm | Permalink

    As well as BSNBC did in creating chaos, they could have done a little better. They should have just made it a free-for-all where all 10 candidates were simultaneously screaming for two hours. I think that would have better achieved the scene they were looking to create.

    It would have been fun to have the moderators each read one word of every question in random succession too. That way none of their bimbo talking heads would ever feel left out for more than a few seconds.

  5. Dogmatic Dolt
    Posted June 27, 2019 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, I particularly liked Eric Swalwell’s call for the Biden generation to “pass the torch”.
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/450784-swalwell-urges-biden-to-pass-the-torch-to-younger-generation

  6. iRobert
    Posted June 27, 2019 at 10:16 pm | Permalink

    I think attacks on candidates for their age, no matter how gussied up, will only hurt the person who makes them with older voters. If they think they’re going to win younger voters by saying that stuff, they’ll be disappointed. It’s a poorly thought through strategy.

  7. iRobert
    Posted June 27, 2019 at 10:19 pm | Permalink

    I guess Swalwell might just be desperate to remind people he’s not as old as his appearance suggests.

  8. Dogmatic Dolt
    Posted June 27, 2019 at 10:22 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, IRobert, I just thought it was fun. Here is Nina Turner and Cornell West’s take. Makes me want to be a Bernie Bro.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY8QoZx8obs

  9. Sad
    Posted June 27, 2019 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

    Whew. Mayor Pete wins again.

    He’s one ambitious kid.

    I’ll sleep well tonight.

    Can’t wait to see how much money he pulled in this quarter.

    Harris did well.

    Biden and Bernie were horrible. The rest of them are just wasting people’s money. Step aside.

  10. iRobert
    Posted June 27, 2019 at 10:38 pm | Permalink

    Mayor Pete looks young. He doesn’t have to remind people he’s young. He’s got that advantage over the other young-ish candidates.

    The culture here in the US has dumbed poor and working class people down too much. They can’t mount any actual challenge to take power in that dumbed-down condistion. They’ll always fall prey to manipulation. The only way to position the working class and poor to actually take any power back the way Sanders or Tulsi describes is to first develop a very knowledgeable and savvy poor and working class. Only then would it be even remotely possible, and even then it would be a very bloody and costly fight.

  11. Jean Henry
    Posted June 27, 2019 at 11:19 pm | Permalink

    I left the debate with the startling revelation that I v much dislike Bernard Sanders. Shocking revelation, I know. He was so damned loud. He outshouted everyone. That’s clearly his idea of winning. He’s never going to step aside. He could lose us this one too. He could be handing the primary to Biden.

    Kamala owned Biden, and she needed to, The bussing thing was a bit canned until he responded and tried to defend localized governance on civil rights (????!!!!!) Then she ran with it. And was right.

    10 years ago this never would have happened on a debate stage. We’ve come a long way. That’s what makes the old white dudes.so nervous.

    Mayor Pete was myor pete. He’s already coming off smarmy. We’ll see.

  12. EOS
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 4:32 am | Permalink

    MSM says Kamala won the debate. Clearly the old white guys were too loud and too angry.

    3 online polls I looked at said Andrew Yang won. What?

  13. Sad
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 6:38 am | Permalink

    We know the places you visit online aren’t very reliable EOS so it’s not surprising that your resources believed Zang won.

    Everything I read said Mayor Pete and Harris.

    Next time the clown show convenes will be the end of July right here in the great state of Michigan.

  14. Sad
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 6:44 am | Permalink

    Yang not zang.

    Sorry. We’re going to Zingermans for lunch.

  15. John Brown
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 6:45 am | Permalink

    They seem to have a deliberate Big Tent strategy going. Somebody for everybody in the party. Even Maryanne Williamson made some good points representing the old gray hair hippie liberals. Inclusivity is the way we’re going to smash voter turnout records. Not with old white guys.

    I would have liked to hear someone (Tulsi maybe?) state that “if the fascist POS refuses to leave office or if Roger Stone starts a rebellion, I WILL CRUSH THEM”

  16. Anonymous
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 6:47 am | Permalink

    It’s too soon to declare “winners” unless it’s for the fun of speculating. My only take is Biden is really old. Not old fashioned. Old.

  17. Anonymous
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    Predicting the outcome of a primary or an election this far out is like predicting the results of the Super Bowl 10 years from now.

  18. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 7:20 am | Permalink

    I feel sorry for Joe. He is trying so hard to be quick. He is just so too old and slow.

    I believe Kamala is a corrupt person. She just wants to win, win, win. She was glowing with glee when the moderators asked Pete about the shooting in South Bend. Gross person.

    Swallwell is a weirdo.

    Of that group I liked Bernie by far the best just in terms of believability . Pete second best.

    I hope SNL does a skit. I thought last night was very funny. Where do they find these people?

  19. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    Everyone on that stage could and should own Biden.

    Does anyone think he could come close to beating Trump? Cross Biden off the list ASAP.

  20. Anonymous
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    Biden shouldn’t even be on that stage, except as a symbol of exactly what we don’t need going forward.

  21. Eel
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 8:20 am | Permalink

    I will never forgive the Democratic establishment for making me aware of Marianne Williamson.

  22. Eel
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 8:22 am | Permalink

    The “pass the torch” thing was a clearly scripted attempt to dominate a news cycle. It came across as pathetic.

  23. iRobert
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 8:28 am | Permalink

    FF: “Does anyone think he could come close to beating Trump?”

    I do. But that’s because elections outcomes are not ultimately determined the way the public thinks.

    Anybody can beat anybody if that is what the most savvy power dealers have planned. That’s why a clown with no comprehension even the most basic aspects of things can be ushered through a prinary system and then installed using a clever, stealth, yes fairly simple manipulation strategy.

    I had a little bit of a conversation with HW days ago where I tried to explain just the part about the ushering through the primary process. HW was patient, but I still somehow failed to present even just the first bit of it adequately apparently. I wonder if a more articulate and elequent person here could help me out.

  24. John Galt
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    Diamond and Silk drop the knowledge.

    https://twitter.com/tonyposnanski/status/1144597353611104257?s=21

  25. Bob
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    Harris is such a phony, middle management level hack. With her overly rehearsed applause lines and pandering. Bernie was no louder than Harris, Booker, or the completely insufferable Gillibrand. I love that Jean uses any excuse to hate Bernie. His applause was loud and clear. The entire race has moved to Bernie’s agenda. The entire party. Whether he is the nominee or not, he remade the conversation and possibly restored it to some resemblance of what democrats are supposed to be. A possible save from the awful pro choice republican mess it became thanks to Billary. If you actually support real democratic ideals, Jean, you would quit bashing Sanders. Even if you don’t like him. At this point you just sound like an ass on the subject. Buttigeig is an empty suit. Gillibrand, Gabbard, Klobuchar, Booker and especially the laughable Beto suck. It’s Bernie and it’s Warren. Harris is a maybe, though she’s just a run of the mill party hack who’s willing to flip her opinion whichever way the polls blow. She could probably beat Trump but she’s got a ton of baggage. The danger of a former prosecutor being the candidate. Lotta fires smoldering. I’m still fearful of Warren getting killed but I’m with her. The fix is in again on Bernie, sadly. We probably need to move on even if he was right all along and set the agenda.

  26. John Brown
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    I think many of them are opening themselves up to the “open border” hysteria of the right. They need to pledge to follow the law, compassionately. And if they believe that increased immigration is good for the country pursue that agenda through policy reform, not lack of enforcement of existing law. Sen Mike Bennet was the only one getting this right I thought. And he got it right on agent orange’s fucking Ruskie handlers.

  27. M
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 10:06 am | Permalink

    The best thing ever… Marianne Williamson put to a Twin Peaks soundtrack.

    https://twitter.com/BoxrecGrey/status/1144495391221485568

  28. John Brown
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 10:10 am | Permalink

    Jimmy Carter nails it on Agent Orange. Illegitimate. Treasonous.

    NEW: Former president Jimmy Carter says a full investigation “would show that Trump didn’t actually win the election in 2016….He was put into office because the Russians interfered.” Does that mean he’s an illegitimate president? “Based on what I said, which I can’t retract.”

    https://twitter.com/SusanPage/status/1144615620845219841

  29. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    Andrew Yang with that free money though…A thousand bucks could buy a hipster lot of crappy beers a month. Just think of it.

  30. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 11:34 am | Permalink

    You will have your cup of joe and you will pretend to like it!

  31. iRobert
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

    After the candidates meet on stage again in Detroit, the field will begin thinning. There will be fewer thatn ten qualifying for the September debate.

    Mark, are you going to organize a carpool (or bus) for your blog commenters to get us all down to the showdown in Motown.

  32. Anonymous
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    Why would Mark want to ride with any one of us? He knows only a few of us and probably can stand even fewer. The prolific pseudonymous commentators openly express contempt for his views. Get there on your own. Maybe you can wear a name tag with your MM.com handle on it. Better yet, watch it remotely at a local bar.

  33. iRobert
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

    It’s settled then. Mark’s resenting us a luxury bus to go to Detroit at the end of July for the next candidate circus. We could bring a sign like the ones each state has at national conversions, except ours will say…

    M
    A
    Y
    T
    A
    R
    D
    S

  34. iRobert
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

    I’m sure he’ll be resenting it. But what I meant to type was “Mark’s renting us a luxury bus…”

  35. Bob
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    Andrew Yang is pretty fucking smart and his proposal actually makes sense if people were smart enough to look at it. Which they aren’t. And they won’t. That Alfalfa haircut is a nonstarter though.

  36. Sad
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    Mayor Pete has plenty of time to figure out how to get elected. If not president probablybnice president.

    Pass the torch!

  37. iRobert
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    I hope I didn’t terribly hurt the feelings of any sensitive soul here with my use of the word “Maytards.” Personally I wear it like a badge of honor and forget how so very sensitive other folks here are about such things.

  38. Anonymous
    Posted June 29, 2019 at 8:24 am | Permalink

    I have never met Mark but he seems like a nice guy. I don’t know why anyone would spend so much time on a blog of someone they don’t like.

  39. John Brown
    Posted June 29, 2019 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    iR,

    I suggest always using “libtard” in close proximity to any other “-tard” so as to include an inferred attribution of this discriminatory and hateful language to it’s owners, the GOP. Reminding everyone of their incivility and general vileness is the only reason to go there.

  40. iRobert
    Posted June 29, 2019 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    JB,

    I even want to take the “Demo” off of Democratic and just call ’em “Crats”

  41. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 29, 2019 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

    “Waah! I wanna be able to say the most hateful and discwiminatowy lies about people and then cwy when they call me wibtawded…”

  42. Dogmatic Dolt
    Posted June 29, 2019 at 6:00 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, I think Mark should start a “I love Megan Rapinoe” web page

  43. Jean Henry
    Posted June 29, 2019 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

    More Marianne Williamson greatest hits:
    https://twitter.com/ellievhall/status/1144447746570641410

    Sat what you will about liberals and progressives but at least most of us can laugh at ourselves and our own.

    I think HW is the most acutely sensitive commenter on here by miles. FF a close second. Bob is third and is mostly a blowhard when having feelings. They parade as righteousness but they are too dumb in expression to stem from complex ethical consideration.

  44. iRobert
    Posted June 30, 2019 at 6:24 am | Permalink

    Ali Alexander, an African-American who tweeted a complaint directed at Senator Kamala Harris regarding the way she portrays herself racially, is being condemned by the media and others for his remarks.

    Here’s a link to his twitter page where he explains himself: https://mobile.twitter.com/ali

  45. Jean Henry
    Posted June 30, 2019 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

    Ali Alexander is one dude. And he clearly is getting a lot of mileage and attention for attacking Harris. That’s his stated agenda. To deny the ‘blackness’ of KH because she’s half Jamaican and half Indian is absurd. That’s not how it works. Senator Harris is not passing for White. Mr Alexander doesn’t get to decide what her race is.

  46. Posted June 30, 2019 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    Stay tuned tomorrow, when we’ll be asking, “Has anyone seen Harris’s birth certificate?”

  47. iRobert
    Posted June 30, 2019 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

    Ali Alexander makes a lot of intriguing points regardless.

    I think Kamala Harris is an excellent Senator and makes a strong candidate for president as well. Her prosecutors style is very effective. Still, her comments about race were a transparent and cynical attempt to get African Americans to make assumptions about her that simply are not true. She’s hoping to benefit from a misconception. That’s not a terrible offense in my view, but I can certainly see why it would offend a lot of African Americans.

  48. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 30, 2019 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

    I didn’t watch the Ali video. Whether or not he is making intriguing points is not relevant. What is relevant is that Ali is just one dude. Jean is also just one dude but Jean’s points are much more intriguing because Jean knows “how it works”.

  49. iRobert
    Posted June 30, 2019 at 10:45 pm | Permalink

    I demand to see Kamala’s bonefides!

  50. iRobert
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

    Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-CA) is ending his presidential bid

  51. Posted July 9, 2019 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    Tom Steyer Will Run for President and Plans to Spend $100 Million on His Bid

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/09/us/politics/tom-steyer-president.html

  52. Posted July 9, 2019 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

    Tom Steyer officially announces presidential bid

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/09/politics/tom-steyer-presidential-campaign/index.html

  53. Posted July 10, 2019 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

    From WXYZ:

    7 Democratic presidential candidates confirmed for NAACP Convention in Detroit

    So far, seven candidates have confirmed they will be at the convention, which takes place on Wednesday, July 24 at Cobo Center in downtown Detroit. Those candidates are:

    Cory Booker, United States Senator
    Julián Castro, Former U.S. Secretary of Housing and Urban Development
    Kamala Harris, United States Senator
    Amy Klobuchar, United States Senator
    Beto O’Rourke, Former Member of the United States House of Representatives
    Bernie Sanders, United States Senator
    Elizabeth Warren, United States Senator

  54. iRobert
    Posted July 23, 2019 at 8:02 am | Permalink

    From HuffPost.com:

    CNN Announces Lineups For Second Round of 2020 Democratic Debates

    https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5d2dffcde4b0a873f6428f49

  55. iRobert
    Posted July 24, 2019 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

    Joe Biden is in Dearborn makingva canpaign stop after being enforced by Detroit Mayor Mike Dugan.

    Senator Kamala Harris is in Detroit campaigning today as well.

    You can see the live video at NowThis Politics Facebook page.

  56. iRobert
    Posted July 24, 2019 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    Auto-correct Correction:

    Joe Biden is in Dearborn making a canpaign stop after being endorsed by Detroit Mayor Mike Dugan.

    http://www.facebook.com/NowThisPolitics

  57. iRobert
    Posted July 25, 2019 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

    I assume Mark’s is renting a luxury bus for all of his commenters to go to the candidate circus July 30th and 31st. I want to make a sign for it saying “The Cesspool Shuttle.”

  58. iRobert
    Posted July 30, 2019 at 6:14 am | Permalink

    Senators Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are the headliners tonight at the Fox Theater in Detroit. What time are we all meeting at Mark’s to board the party bus for the trip downtown?

  59. Sad
    Posted July 30, 2019 at 6:27 am | Permalink

    The headliner is Pete.

    Only old people would drive there when they could watch it streaming.

    When will you old people acknowledge global warming?

  60. iRobert
    Posted July 30, 2019 at 7:55 am | Permalink

    Where is Councilman Pete having his big party when he drops out? That’ll be a well-funded one.

  61. iRobert
    Posted July 30, 2019 at 8:13 am | Permalink

    I sure hope CNN goes with the same Jerry Springer show format that BSNBC did last month. That worked out well.

  62. iRobert
    Posted July 30, 2019 at 8:29 am | Permalink

    I assume all the candidates are carpooling in to town, and not flying, on account of global warming.

  63. iRobert
    Posted July 30, 2019 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    I hope Pete isn’t too nervous tonight. Detroit has a lot of black people.

  64. iRobert
    Posted August 28, 2019 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

    US Senator Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY) is out of the presidential race.

  65. iRobert
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 7:29 am | Permalink

    Mark, where is the official MM.com watch party tonight?

    From ABC:

    Watch the Third Democratic Debate on ABC Thursday, September 12 at 8|7c and 5p

    https://abc.go.com/news/insider/watch-the-third-democratic-debate-on-abc-and-the-abc-app

  66. Posted September 12, 2019 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

    The Washtenaw County Democratic Party is having their watch party at Pizza House tonight.

    https://www.mobilize.us/midems/event/99559/

    I’ll be hosting the official Maytard Watch Party at my place on S Main. All Maytards welcome, except you-know-who.

  67. Sad
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

    Who to watch tonight? I wonder?

    https://www.statesman.com/opinion/20190911/phillips-candidate-african-americans-are-watching-who-might-surprise-you

  68. Sad
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

    I hope every candidate viciously attacks Joe Biden.

    He needs to go!

  69. iRobert
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 6:18 pm | Permalink

    I’m hoping Senator Harris grabs Biden by the ears and starts kneeing him in the groin repeatedly. Now that would make great home viewing.

  70. Sad
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    Or Elizabeth Warren.

    They really make it sound like there’s some bad blood between them.

    I heard people were upset with Harris for going after Biden.

    White fragility I suppose.

  71. iRobert
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

    Geezer fight!

  72. Sad
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

    Mayor Pete is a Lover not a fighter.

  73. iRobert
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

    Harris needs to confront Biden on the fact that his people invented racism.

  74. Jean Henry
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

    IRobert— did you notice no one but conservatives were willing to back up your incredulity that white people invented racism? You keep repeating your shock at that many times historically validated perspective. Read a book or two. Your making a fool of yourself.

  75. iRobert
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

    I was making fun of your incredible insanity. I don’t see anyone supporting your nutty notion that “white” people “invented” racism. Do you?

    Your nuttiness is pure gold for comedy. I’m going to keep mocking you on that. So please keep the lunacy coming.

  76. iRobert
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

    They still haven’t mentioned in these debates that white people invented racism. One of these candidates needs to say it. It’s the only way we can move forward. We have to admit it.

  77. iRobert
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    I wonder why nobody ever says it, except Jean and a couple PhD students. White people invented racism! That’s huge! Why does nobody in any position of authority ever mention it?

  78. iRobert
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

    Jean and I are wondering why Mark hasn’t written a single post addressing the shocking revelation that white people invented racism. Mark needs to come clean on behalf of all white people.

  79. iRobert
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

    Cory Booker just quoted MLK. He must be just looking to appeal to white voters with that.

  80. iRobert
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

    Elizabeth Warren seemed to start out a bit weak but is now on a strong roll.

  81. iRobert
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

    This debate would have been better if it was all in Spanish.

  82. iRobert
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

    FF dislikes Senator Harris more than I do. I liked her making fun of Trump for watching Fox News. You have to admit that was funny.

  83. iRobert
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 8:23 pm | Permalink

    I’m going to vote for the first white candidate who apologizes for their people having invented racism.

  84. iRobert
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

    Sad must be glued to his television screen watching Mayor Pete’s every move and hanging on his every word. He’s like a teenage girl watching the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan show.

  85. iRobert
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

    Mayor Pete is scoring points on the topic of trade and Trump’s failure in dealing with China.

  86. iRobert
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

    Senator Harris may be making some gains tonight. Is she high? She seems incredibly relaxed.

    Sanders looks like he’s going to have a heart attack.

  87. Jean Henry
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    ‘White people invented racism! That’s huge! Why does nobody in any position of authority ever mention it?‘’
    What ‘position of authority’ would satisfy you? Professors and public intellectuals don’t count? Historians don’t count? Black Americans don’t count? Who does?

    Given how uncomfortable this very basic reality makes you feel, why do you wonder that it’s not common understanding?

    A friend listed Black Lives Matter signs for sale on Facebook marketplace and had it flagged and removed as hate speech.

    Saying ‘Black Lives Matter’ is hate speech.

    FWIW when I say white people invented racism (and provided lots of documentation including two very well regarded and widely cited books), I am not saying they invented bigotry or bias or tribalism. I made that clear at the time. White supremacy- the idea that white people are better biologically than Black people- is a relatively new concept historically. Racism is relatively new.

    At the time you said so did white people invent war etc too? I very clearly stated no. Racism is different. It’s an invention.

    Some day I suspect you will be embarrassed that this idea made you incredulous.

  88. iRobert
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

    Nobody is admitting it, Jean! What are we going to do?

    Even Mark won’t write a post about it! We need to force Mark to face this terrible truth.

  89. iRobert
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 9:11 pm | Permalink

    Even the candidates o color have not admitted it! This is terrible. We need your leadership! How do we get this incredible realization out there where we can all come to terms with it?

  90. iRobert
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

    Jean, is there an operation people like you and I could get that makes us less white? I was thinking maybe something like Michael Jackson did bit in the other direction, you know, the right direction. Does anyone help white people like us fix ourselves? The shame is killing us.

  91. iRobert
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

    You must feel especially ashamed, Jean, having fled to White-more Lake. You could still fix that though. You could help reverse the white flight you took part in.

  92. Jean Henry
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 9:21 pm | Permalink

    I have no problem with being white. I feel a level of responsibility but not shame. I’m not the one in denial.

    Do you love Biden IRobert? Because he just completely spazzed out in the debate when asked about the legacy of racism. I thought of you.

  93. Jean Henry
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 9:25 pm | Permalink

    Whitmore Lake is cheap and rapidly diversifying from an admittedly very white starting place/legacy. Ann Arbor is not a bastion of diversity anyway. The demographic trends show a 15% loss of Black population per decade for the last 30 years or so. Not sure what gives you the idea white people are fleeing Ann Arbor. Another Biden-like thought spasm I guess.

  94. iRobert
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 9:26 pm | Permalink

    I’m supporting the GOP challengers and maybe Tulsi.

    Are you going to help me force Mark to write about how white people invented racism?

    Are you going to need help moving back from White-more Lake? I think I’m busy that day.

  95. iRobert
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 9:29 pm | Permalink

    I think black people might start moving back into Ann Arbor now that you’ve left. But still the shame must be killing you being a part of that white flight.

    I don’t hate geezers as much as Sad does, but I’m with him in that I’d rather see somebody younger.

  96. iRobert
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 9:33 pm | Permalink

    I see, Jean, when you take part in white flight there are excuses. These excuses aren’t available to anyone else? You’re situation is unique, Jean. Nobody has access to the same excuses you do I guess.

  97. iRobert
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 9:37 pm | Permalink

    If by the time of the Michigan primary there is still a GOP challenger to Trump, I will vote for that challenger.

    If by the time of the Michigan primary there is no alternative to Trump in the GOP primary, I will vote in the Democratic primary. Right now my preferred Democrat is Tulsi, but I would take any of the Democrats over Trump.

    How about you Jean? How are you leaning? Or are you going to sit this one out?

  98. iRobert
    Posted September 12, 2019 at 9:46 pm | Permalink

    JH: “Not sure what gives you the idea white people are fleeing Ann Arbor.”

    You are the only white person I see as fleeing Ann Arbor. But you have that in common with racists all over America, moving to places like White-more Lake. That’s the flight to which I’d be referring.

  99. Posted September 12, 2019 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

    People can watch ABC’s live post-debate interviews of the candidates here:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2UWVO0Trd1c

  100. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 12:19 am | Permalink

    I always make sure my record player is on at night; doing my part to help the children of the USA to grow up with proper guidance.

  101. iRobert
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 5:35 am | Permalink

    Thank you, HW.

    Kids need to hear words.

  102. iRobert
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 5:46 am | Permalink

    Old Joe thought he was just Biden his time. But looks like Grannie Warren is making her move.

    Old Joe might need yet another energized lefty further splitting the support over there for him to stay near the front of this pack. Maybe Talib should be encouraged to jump into the race.

  103. Jean Henry
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 6:02 am | Permalink

    “I’m supporting the GOP challengers and maybe Tulsi.” — good to know you’ve fully converted to conservatism, iRobert.
    Suits you.

  104. Jean Henry
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 6:05 am | Permalink

    ‘I see, Jean, when you take part in white flight there are excuses.‘
    —didn’t make any excuses. I denied your premise.
    You are off your game IRobert.

  105. iRobert
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 6:06 am | Permalink

    Linsey Davis should have asked Old Joe about white people inventing racism. Somebody has to say it! The only reason I can imagine that they haven’t is because there is some sort of cover-up going on.

  106. iRobert
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 6:14 am | Permalink

    Jean Henry: “[I] didn’t make any excuses.“

    Jean Henry excuses:
    1) “Whitmore Lake is cheap”
    2) “[White-more Lake is] rapidly diversifying from an admittedly very white starting place/legacy.”
    3) “Ann Arbor is not a bastion of diversity anyway.”

  107. Jean Henry
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 6:26 am | Permalink

    No. WL is cheap explains why its diversifying. A2 not being diverse disrupts the premise of white flight.
    Neither is an excuse. I don’t need an excuse.

    Maybe in future I will follow your lead and not bother to back up my points.

  108. iRobert
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 6:31 am | Permalink

    Curios you didn’t move to south Ypsilanti, Jean, which is also cheap.

  109. iRobert
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 6:53 am | Permalink

    When Jean flees the city for a place like White-more Lake it’s because she’s a scout clearing the way for more diversity to follow. She doesn’t move to places that are already diverse. I get it. Too bad none of the fleeing racists could come up with that excuse.

    So remember, everyone, when Jean does something it’s not racist. But when other people do the exact same thing it is racist. Try to keep that in mind.

  110. Sad
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    Not a very encouraging debate.

    Bracing myself for four more years of Trump and HW.

  111. dogmatic dolt
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 7:37 am | Permalink

    Aloha JH, I like how you think a community that is 95% white and out of a population of nearly 7,000 has a black population under 200 is “diverse”. It is these kind of mental gymnastics that make you think you are not a conservative.
    But don’t worry JH, Tulsi is inclusionary. Her policies are for all Americans.

  112. Anonymous
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 7:53 am | Permalink

    What is wrong with you people? What started out as a conversation about the debate ended up in a fight about Henry’s move to Whitmore Lake. You guys hate Mark and hate each other, and don’t even seem to like any of the candidates in a Democratic primary, despite being Democratic voters (I assume). Sad is the least sad person here.

  113. Jean Henry
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 7:56 am | Permalink

    You don’t live here Dolt. Those are stats from years ago. My neighborhood which is very low income and much cheaper than ypsi is increasingly diverse. I know because I can see it happening in real time.

    At any rate, I’m actually more comfortable in mixed neighborhoods than ones that are predominantly white. I’m regularly interacting IRL with people with whom I fundamentally disagree politically. How about you?

  114. Jean Henry
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 8:06 am | Permalink

    i Robert — I’m 10 miles and 10 minutes from A2 (where I work and my son goes to school) and my house payments are under $800/month. And it’s a great house, former glass blowing studio that I can take net zero. With 3/4 acre 600 feet from the lake access. South Ypsi didn’t offer that.

    It’s striking that your discomfort with talking about racism and your compulsive need to reject the idea that America is still a white supremacist nation, would lead to you so deeply into this diversion.

    What’s more important to you iRobert and DD? Denying systemic racism or defeating a Trump?

  115. Anonymous
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 8:08 am | Permalink

    Sanders and Biden are looking old. Biden a bit forgetful, Sanders cantankerous. Pete is a baby. Warren and Kamala good speakers, the rest are amateurs.

  116. iRobert
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 8:20 am | Permalink

    “South Ypsi didn’t offer that.”

    More excuses from Jean ‘White flight’ Henry.

  117. Jean Henry
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 8:20 am | Permalink

    I wish the debate offered more to talk about. They mostly were spinning their wheels. I personally was most disappointed in Yang’s cash giveaways framing of UBI which should have been discussed As a serious policy option the way Medicare for all and reparations were. I think it’s a desperate ploy to stay in the game that plays to moderation and conservative stereotypes of liberalism. I gave him money originally because I wanted that policy approach and the economic arguments for it in open discussion. Yang was my biggest disappointment. He looked silly.

    The others did fine except Biden, who does not seem to be mentally up to this race. 5 months to go before voting begins. I actually felt bad for Bernie. When he said ‘oligarchy’ he sounded like he was chocking on a bone.

    I agree with Trump that it will be Warren, Bernie and Biden by them. If neither Warren nor Bernie bow out, the. It’s Bidens race. Which is depressing but not as depressing as another 4 years of Trump. I’m not sure Biden can drive voter turnout. Blah candidates (even beloved ones) don’t win in the general. Because turn out drives Dem victories not conversions of moderates.

    Anonymous— what did you think of the debate or are you just here to scold people?

  118. iRobert
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 8:22 am | Permalink

    Anonymous: “You guys hate Mark and hate each other”

    Duh. What was your first clue, Sherlock?

    Now that you’re all caught up, Anonymous, why do you think the candidates have so far avoided mentioning that White people invented racism?

  119. Jean Henry
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    Ah I see I spoke too soon. Excellent summary Anonymous.

    IRobert- you increasingly undermine your own legitimacy here by trying to be a funny troll. Not funny, not acute enough in your criticism. What is the point of you spending your time here? Don’t you have a lawn to mow or something? Your irrelevance is striking

  120. iRobert
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 8:28 am | Permalink

    What are you going to do when the child support runs out, Jean? You could help me mow lawns.

  121. dogmatic dolt
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 8:30 am | Permalink

    Aloha JH, Here are some 2019 Whitmore Lake statistics. Black folks don’t even show up.

    https://suburbanstats.org/population/michigan/how-many-people-live-in-whitmore-lake

  122. iRobert
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    I’m surprised to see Jean was lying about the racial demographics of White-more Lake. She seems like such an honest person.

    I expect now that Jean has moved away, people of all races and creeds will be moving back into that old west side neighborhood of Ann Arbor. Black folks have been clearing out of there for decades, and Jean didn’t take the hint.

    I’m just practicing some humor. I know I’m not funny. I hope to be one day though. With Jean setting me up over and over I should get a lot of practice.

  123. dogmatic dolt
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 8:46 am | Permalink

    Aloha JH, Here is some historic data on race in your town. But like you “I wish the debate offered more to talk about.” If Tulsi had been on the stage, we would be discussing the pros and cons of our endless war making. Though I did think I heard Warren say, at least initially that she would unequivocally leave Afghanistan–Tulsi is making progress.

    As of the census[1] of 2000, there were 6,574 people, 2,663 households, and 1,741 families residing in the CDP. The racial makeup of the CDP was 96.05% White, 0.93% African American,
    Here is the 2010 Census info.
    https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/whitmorelakecdpmichigan/AGE775218

    Please explain how a community that in 2000 was 96% white and less than .5% black and had a White population 95% white and a black population of .3% in 2010, and which in the latest estimates (prior link) don’t even include the black population has become more diverse. More Hispanics who identify as “white” perhaps?

    I don’t doubt that Whitmore Lake is a “cheaper” place for some one who has the resources to own a car.

  124. EOS
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 10:35 am | Permalink

    I like it that these debates are so frequent so that mainstream voters can see how far left and radical all the candidates policies would be. 4 more years of Trump. And no, no Republican challenger has a chance. Mark Sanford might as well take a long hike down the Appalachian Trail.

    The comments here about White-more Lake were far more entertaining than the debate last night. However, the first documentation of a person discriminating against another was Cain. Not sure what his race was. All humans are inherently sinful. What good does it do to point the finger at any race as the cause for anything? It’s the individual choices we make that will ultimately be judged.

  125. Jean Henry
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    Discrimination is not racism, EOS. Was Cain discriminating on the basis of skin color? If not it wasn’t racism. Did he believe himself biologically superior because of his skin tone? No? Then it wasn’t racism.

  126. EOS
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    Maybe Abel had a slightly darker skin tone. Did they both have the same eye color? Who knows? Race is a social construct. Maybe he was discriminating based on occupation. Put two people together and they will find some basis for discriminating. I’m sure they must have had an -ism for this at the time.

  127. EOS
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 11:08 am | Permalink

    And, more importantly, would their skin tones have to be different in order for it to be considered a hate crime?

  128. Anonymous
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    Stories about Cain and Abel don’t count as “documentation”.

  129. Posted September 13, 2019 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    We always considered ourselves White.

    When you watched 2001: A Space Odyssey, didn’t you always assume the Troglodytes beating each other with bones were White?

  130. Jean Henry
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    EOS – yes! race IS a social construct! And so is racism!

    That’s my point.

    Bias and discrimination and in-group behavior and tribalism etc etc are all human traits but racism was invented and very likely invented with intention.

    Thank you for making my point.

  131. Jean Henry
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 11:50 am | Permalink

    EOS — racism didn’t exist in biblical times so why would we impose it on our analysis of the texts?

    I mean Jesus was super popular and he was from North Africa and had ‘hair of wool.’ White people had to morph him to look more and more like us, but he didn’t become blonde with blue eyes until very recently.

  132. iRobert
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    Wow, Trog! It’s great to see you back here and commenting on a non-Hollywood related thread. You might be able to answer some questions I’ve been wrestling with for years.

    Is it true White people invented the scowl?

  133. EOS
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 2:29 pm | Permalink

    No Jean, I didn’t make your point. And your statement that racism didn’t exist in biblical times is factually incorrect.

    Jesus was a victim of both religious and racial discrimination. Israel was under occupation by the Roman Empire, causing tension and animosity on both sides. There was hatred between the Jews and their neighbours of mixed race, the Samaritans (i.e. people from a region called Samaria). Jews did not consider these people ‘pure’: although they were of Jewish descent, they had intermarried with other races, something forbidden in the Torah.

    In his teaching, Jesus challenged the prejudices of the people of his day. Jews and Samaritans would not even talk to each other. In the famous ‘Parable of the Good Samaritan’, Jesus makes a Samaritan the hero who stopped to help an injured Jew (Luke 10:30 – 37). A Samaritan is also the only one who returned to thank Jesus from a group of 10 lepers healed by him (Luke 17:11-19). In John’s gospel, Jesus makes a point of stopping at a Samaritan village and talking with a Samaritan woman (which would have been two counts against her). He treats her with courtesy and respect which proves to be a life-transforming encounter for her (John 4:1 – 42). In this, Jesus exemplifies his own teaching: that Christians should not just tolerate people of all races, but that they should actively show love to all, even their enemies.

    ‘Love your enemies. Do good to those who hate you.’ (Jesus – Luke 6:27).

    It is clear that the first disciples were not above prejudice. Even Peter was prejudiced – see his experience at Joppa (Acts 10:9-23), where God had to challenge his prejudices regarding Gentiles. After Jesus’ ascension the new Christian ‘church’ had to rethink its attitude to Gentiles (i.e. non-Jews). Many Jewish Christians believed Gentiles must become Jews before they could become Christians. It was eventually decided at the Council of Jerusalem that Gentiles could now be admitted to the Church without first becoming Jews (Acts 15:5 – 21).

    Paul, one of the early church’s leaders, wrote about divisions caused by racism.

    In first century AD, it was common to assign different values to different races and ethnicities. Foreigners, women, and children were generally regarded as property owned by the male heads of households and local rulers. Foreigners would often be employed in bonded labor (enslavement to pay off debts, like Jesus mentioned in Matthew 18:21-35), making it difficult or impossible to live freely.

    n Genesis 27:46, Rebekah exclaims her frustration with Esau’s wives, not because he had more than one, but because of their ethnicity: “I’m disgusted with living because of these Hittite women,” she says to Isaac. “If Jacob takes a wife from among the women of this land, from Hittite women like these, my life will not be worth living.” Rebekah’s comment is heavily laden with ethnic prejudice. There was something about Hittites that sent her up the wall. Most of us don’t know what; it went without being said.

    See also
    https://urbana.org/blog/race-and-ethnicity-bible

  134. Sad
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

    Joe Biden,

    Friends don’t let people make an idiot of themselves in public and imperil the future of western democracy.

    Shouldn’t somebody say something to him?

  135. Jean Henry
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    EOS— tribalism is not racism. Racism focuses on skin color not ethnic or religious identity. Racism is a subset of tribalism (which appears to be your point of confusion as well as iRobert’s), it just creates groups based on skin color, and it creates a shared historical and contemporary experience of either privilege or marginalization based on skin color. It’s not the same as ethnic or religious identity, but it uses the same human impulse to create in groups and out groups.

    I know you will counter this my again talking about issues irrelevant to the subject up for debate. I think I’ve mads y point well enough, many times over, so I’m just going to get back to my book now.

  136. Jean Henry
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    iRobert is like a broken Biden… Err… Record.
    https://twitter.com/buzzfeednews/status/1172334207244177415?s=21

  137. iRobert
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    I’m convinced, Jean. I just can’t figure out why Mark hasn’t written about how White people invented racism. He must be part of some sort of cover-up.

  138. iRobert
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

    Jean, you’re not going to acknowledge you lied about the demographics of White-more Lake, are you? You can’t. If you did, you then might feel you should explain to yourself why you did.

  139. dogmatic dolt
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

    aloha, just had the opportunity to listen to Tulsi in Des Moines

    https://www.facebook.com/TulsiGabbard/videos/2118581234912499/?notif_id=1568418307563451&notif_t=live_video

    Heard her unequivocally state that she is campaigning against the military industrial congressional complex that feeds and profits off our decades long wars.

    Got to step out on my front step and howl at the first harvest moon as it rose up over S. Summit

  140. Jean Henry
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

    DD did you establish that WL was not diversifying?

  141. Jean Henry
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 8:42 pm | Permalink

    Sorry IRobert.
    Robert you aren’t very good at this trolling stuff.

  142. dogmatic dolt
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

    aloha, another “conspiracy” theorist Robert R. Kennedy Jr. on the death of his fathers probable murderer ”
    Thane Eugene Cesar died today in the Philippines. Compelling evidence suggests that Cesar murdered my father. On June 5, 1968, Cesar, an employee in a classified section of Lockheed’s Burbank facility, was moonlighting as a security guard at the Ambassador Hotel. He had landed the job about one week earlier. Cesar waited in the pantry as my father spoke in the ballroom, then grabbed my father by the elbow and guided him toward Sirhan. With 77 people in the pantry, every eyewitness said Sirhan was always in front on my father at a 3-6 feet distance. Sirhan fired two shots toward my father before he was tackled. From under the dog pile, Sirhan emptied his 8 chamber revolver firing 6 more shots in the opposite direction 5 of them striking bystanders and one going wild . By his own account, Cesar was directly behind my dad holding his right elbow with his own gun drawn when my dad fell backwards on top of him. Cesar repeatedly changed his story about exactly when he drew his weapon. According to the Coroner, Dr. Thomas Noguchi, all 4 shots that struck my father were “contact” shots fired from behind my dad with the barrel touching or nearly touching his body. As my dad fell,he reached back and tore off Cesar’s clip on tie. Cesar sold his .22 to a co-worker weeks after the assassination warning him that it had been used in a crime. Cesar lied to police claiming that he’d disposed of the gun months before the assassination. Cesar was a bigot who hated the Kennedys for their advocacy of Civil Rights for blacks. I had plans to meet Thane Eugene Cesar in the Philippines last June until he demanded a payment of $25,000 through his agent Dan Moldea. Ironically, Moldea penned a meticulous and compelling indictment of Cesar in a 1995 book and then suddenly exculpated him by fiat in a bizarre and nonsensical final chapter. Police have never seriously investigated Cesar’s role in my father’s killing.”

  143. iRobert
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 9:21 pm | Permalink

    Where was that printed. DD?

  144. iRobert
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 9:36 pm | Permalink

    Nevermind, DD, I see RFK Jr. posted the comment on his Instagram feed.

  145. iRobert
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

    Jean, DD posted this at 8:46am (Central Time) today:

    “As of the census[1] of 2000, there were 6,574 people, 2,663 households, and 1,741 families residing in the CDP. The racial makeup of the CDP was 96.05% White, 0.93% African American,
    Here is the 2010 Census info.
    https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/whitmorelakecdpmichigan/AGE775218

    Please explain how a community that in 2000 was 96% white and less than .5% black and had a White population 95% white and a black population of .3% in 2010, and which in the latest estimates (prior link) don’t even include the black population has become more diverse. More Hispanics who identify as “white” perhaps?”

    Did you not read that? Or did you read it and forget in one of those senior moments you’ve been having?

    You are a bizarre and nutty person, Jean, and I will continue to enjoy mocking you on that. It is a bit like a broken record, but I’m confident there is plenty of comedy to be mined from your crazy talk. I may not be all that good at bringing it out, but I’m going to keep on trying. In that sense, I think my trolling is far more valuable than the trolling you do.

  146. Jean Henry
    Posted September 14, 2019 at 12:24 am | Permalink

    Your latest data is from 8 years ago. I live here. I’m telling you what I’ve observed in my neighborhood in the two years I’ve been here. I guess we’ll need to wait for 2020.
    Your initial point was irrelevant. No you are arguing secondary points which only serves to make the irrelevant seem relevant. What’s your fucking problem? Get a life. There has to be something better to do than target me because I said we live in a white sypremacist nation. Read a book. It might help.

    I never imagined being targeted for attack could be so boring.

  147. iRobert
    Posted September 14, 2019 at 4:28 am | Permalink

    I could say the same about you, Jean. But I’m just mocking you. I’m not bothering to try to convince you of anything. I can see what a waste of time that has been for other people. And It’s okey if it’s boting to you – maybe even good that it is. When you say things like white people invented racism it’s just really ridiculous and funny. Trying to find more humor in it seems the easy option in responding to such lunacy, and the way to respond that is most positive and the least waste of time.

    We all know you have two completely different standards for judging any statement or action. When other people do or say anything, it’s because they’re racist and every other horrible thing. But when you do the same thing, there are endless excuses as to how your circumstances are special. It’s just so silly and obvious, and easy to mock.

  148. iRobert
    Posted September 14, 2019 at 6:24 am | Permalink

    The hunor in it is the mimicry. I don’t really believe you moved to Whitmore Lake because of any racial considerations. But it is something that you would jump to accuse another person of if the roles were reversed. I’m mocking how hypocritical you are in that way and how bent you are on accusing everyone of being motivated by their racism, privilege and such. Your need to see other people as deeply entrenched in racist notions is just not accurate. People generally want to be fair, and want to be part of the solution to problems of bigotry. Mocking is a lazy way of making that point. I suppose I could write an essay on all this, but nobody would read it. So I’ll stick with mocking. I won’t be offended if you mock me similarly. It’s only fair.

  149. Sad
    Posted September 14, 2019 at 7:16 am | Permalink

    But why don’t you have other things to do?

  150. dogmatic dolt
    Posted September 14, 2019 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    Aloha JH, no the last stats I used were 2017 estimates of the census which seems to indicate the place has gotten even whiter since you moved there. This is why science rejects anecdotal evidence as unreliable. As educated as you are, would have thought you understood that your “observations” were not at all scientific.

    For example I was sitting on Andre’s porch the other night–he has lived up the street from me for 30 years. It seemed like all the people we saw walking by were young woman walking there dogs. Based on that evidence I would believe that the demographics of my neighborhood had significantly changed. In reality, all I can say with certainty is that, more woman than men walk their dogs between 5 and 6 pm on that day. Pretty meaningless eh? Kinda like your observations.

  151. iRobert
    Posted September 14, 2019 at 7:51 am | Permalink

    That’s a legitimate question, Sad, and one we could ask you, me, Jean, and anyone else who comments here.

  152. Jean Henry
    Posted September 14, 2019 at 8:09 am | Permalink

    IRobert— I suggest them that you take your argument up with Nell Irvin Panter or Michelle Alexander or any other African American history scholar. Arguing about the changing demographics of WL does nothing to forward your belief that white people didn’t invent racism and that it’s absurd to say so.

    You are using derision of me to deflect from the weakness of your argument which comes down to ‘that’s ridiculous.’

    White people invented the idea of white people. Is that easier for you to swallow?

  153. iRobert
    Posted September 14, 2019 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    That’s absurd, Jean. All groups “invent” (your immaculate term) the idea that they are a group. That isn’t a general “invention” by any particular group.

    Naturally, people have always imagined themselves to be a part of various groups based on shared characteristics. That’s not something anybody invented. It’s onviously something that people have done since they were able to recognize similarities amongst populations.

    Your comments are idiotic, and if they are at all accurate depictions of what Nell Irvin Panter or Michelle Alexander suggest in their writings, they are idiots as well. I suspect your interpretations of their writing is not accurate however. You’ve proven yourself over and over as one who misrepresents the positions of others.

  154. iRobert
    Posted September 14, 2019 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    Correction: “(your inaccurate term)”

  155. Jean Henry
    Posted September 14, 2019 at 10:05 am | Permalink

    IRobert- I commented here about half the time you did. Everyone else less so. Im committed to addressing misconceptions about structural racism when possible; understand my investment in this conversation. You seem committed to denying the scope and history of structural racism and doubly so relative to me. What’s your investment in that and why is it so intense?

    Ps you just called two of the most important public intellectuals of our era idiots. It’s not a good look.

  156. iRobert
    Posted September 14, 2019 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    You’re an asshole, Jean. I said they would be idiots if what you say they wrote is true. But you’d prefer to ignore that conditional. That’s the sort of thing you have to do to avoid admitting you’re wrong.

    I’ve spent most of my time trying to make jokes based on your lunacy. I admit I’ve rarely come up with anything funny. But I’ll keep at it, and maybe I’ll get lucky.

  157. iRobert
    Posted September 14, 2019 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    I can certainly see why people of all races and creeds flee when you move into their neighborhood. I expect Whitmore Lake to experience an exodus now that you’re there. Have all the dumpy pick-up bars closed yet?

  158. Jean Henry
    Posted September 14, 2019 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    Ps that group’s self identify is not a counter to the idea that white people self identified as white; it’s an affirmation of it.

    Whiteness is a construct of racism. Inherent to the idea of whiteness is racial superiority and oppression of people of color. It worked really well. American Slaves did not construct the their own identity as either slaves or Black. It was imposed upon them. No one imposed whiteness on white people.

    Maybe the point is so obvious you can’t see it. Maybe what it demonstrates is so hard to swallow for a supposedly liberal person that you refuse to see it.

    At no point did I say any of this is outside the norm of well established human patterns of behavior. Racist ideology (which is white supremacy) just got re-reinforced structurally and systemically in American culture so it’s become subconsciously embedded in almost all of us. The only way to really dismantle it is to identify the component parts and dismantle them.

    None of this should surprise or shock anyone.

  159. EOS
    Posted September 14, 2019 at 10:26 am | Permalink

    A person’s race is an immutable trait imposed on them at birth. It is no more racist for a white person to identify as white, than for a black person to identify as black. To avoid racism, you should start by not assigning individual traits to any heterogeneous group.

  160. Jean Henry
    Posted September 14, 2019 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    Agreed, EOS. But how does one address subconscious bias?

    https://perception.org/research/implicit-bias/

  161. EOS
    Posted September 14, 2019 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    If you agree, why do you project? You are very wrong in assuming everyone shares your bias. You can start by treating others with respect and kindness regardless of the melatonin content of their skin or their political views. Threatening to cut those who you identify as “other”, for whatever reason, is not the right approach. You display more bias than any other individual on this site.

  162. EOS
    Posted September 14, 2019 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

    Men are all sexist, Whites are all racist, Everybody is less intelligent than you….

    Anyone who doesn’t share your opinions needs to be ostracized, ridiculed, and run off this blog,

    Why?

  163. Sad
    Posted September 14, 2019 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

    It’s always so Sad when people are run off of blogs.

    It’s difficult to imagine something so painful.

    I don’t think Mayor Pete would be a bully. So there’s that.

  164. Jean Henry
    Posted September 15, 2019 at 7:51 am | Permalink

    “Anyone who doesn’t share your opinions needs to be ostracized, ridiculed, and run off this blog,” –DID I SAY THAT? No. this blog comments section is now dominated by conspiracy theorists. I think that pushes more reasonable people away. And no, I’m not a conspiracy theorist. My position is that in our patriarchal and white supremacist society, we are all of us complicit. We have all absorbed the bias conveyed by our society. Some people don;t call it misogyny when expressed by women, but there are endless examples of it. I have never said that some people are immune to racism and misogyny. It’s weaponized within power– that’s all.

  165. Jean Henry
    Posted September 15, 2019 at 7:53 am | Permalink

    EOS– Implicit bias has been well confirmed over and over again by studies. Here is a project at Harvard. You can take the quiz if you want.

    https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/blog.html

  166. Jean Henry
    Posted September 15, 2019 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDJsC_Fwcvk

  167. EOS
    Posted September 15, 2019 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

    I took the quiz. Strongly biased in favor of African Americans. Most whites go out of their way to avoid any hint of racism. Studies of police shootings also show white cops far less likely to shoot blacks. WE ARE NOT ALL COMPLICIT. Your premise is flawed and your conclusion invalid.

  168. Jean Henry
    Posted September 15, 2019 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    I have stated here before that cops in general are less likely to show bias in firearm use than the general public. I assume that applies to White officers as well. It’s a great reason to keep firearms out of the hands of the general public don’t you think?

    I’m questioning your results based on things you have said here, but I certainly hope you learned something by taking it with the intent to demonstrate how unbiased you are.

  169. Jean Henry
    Posted September 15, 2019 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

    EOS did you take the other tests or just the black/white race related one?

  170. Jean Henry
    Posted September 15, 2019 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

    EOS— your result puts you among just 2% of the population. Congrats. You truly are superior. Or just dishonest.
    https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/Study?tid=-1

  171. Jean Henry
    Posted September 15, 2019 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    The way the test works, if one say, was worried about the result and so regularly hesitated before associating an image of a black face with a negative word while being quick to associate a white face with a positive word, or visa versa with positive words, one would get the kind of result EOS produced. It’s extreme. Interesting…

    I can only hope that the exercise was instructive for EOS.

  172. EOS
    Posted September 15, 2019 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

    I have never said anything racist on this blog. How can you be so dishonest and stupid?

    I can say that to you because we are both white. I am not denigrating you because of your race, but because everyone here knows you lie about what other people have said. However, if your name were ethnic, I wouldn’t. It could be misinterpreted as if I applied those terms because of your race and because I felt superior and believe in white supremacy.

    The test was stupid. It makes you assign positive or negative traits to particular races. I assign traits to individuals, not entire races. And you couldn’t go on to the next question until you chose the race that they considered to be the more likely. I almost quit the whole charade after the first few questions. It forced you to assign all negative traits to blacks and all positive traits to whites. Halfway through the test the values were reversed.

  173. Jean Henry
    Posted September 15, 2019 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

    There was a thread a couple years ago where you backed yourself into a corner discussing economical and other racial disparities where you revealed your belief that people who were poor were less capable than others. I accused you of biological determinism and you basically said what’s wrong with that as I recall. Racism is what’s wrong with that

  174. Jean Henry
    Posted September 15, 2019 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

    Ps the test measures your comfort or discomfort assigning negative and positive traits to different races. It uses your delay time to measure discomfort. If one was concerned with demonstrating his it would skew the results the other direction. This is why extreme outlier results are often tossed.

  175. EOS
    Posted September 15, 2019 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

    That’s a symptom of alcoholism – where a person fabricates stories to fill in the gaps in their memories. I’m sure if we found the discussion, it would not be racist in any way.

    And by the way, you don’t throw out data that doesn’t fit your hypothesis. It skews the results. 2% of the population are geniuses. They are also on the extreme ends of the bell shaped curve. In any distribution of population traits, there will always be outliers.

  176. iRobert
    Posted September 15, 2019 at 9:45 pm | Permalink

    You’re a liar, Jean. You can’t even honestly represent what people you say you agree with have said. Nell Irvin Panter and Michelle Alexander have not said whites invented racism. I’ve read some of their articles and they clearly aren’t that stupid.

    You either have poor reading comprehension or you are very intentionally misrepresenting everyone’s writings and statements, or both are the case.

  177. dogmatic dolt
    Posted September 16, 2019 at 7:15 am | Permalink

    Aloha, Tulsi’s comments this morning,
    Trump awaits instructions from his Saudi masters. Having our country act as Saudi Arabia’s bitch is not “America First.”

  178. Sad
    Posted September 16, 2019 at 7:28 am | Permalink

    I wish Tulsi was doing better.

    I wish Warren, Sanders and Biden would bow out.

    Warren and Sanders are OK. But just too old and compromised.

    It would be so much more interesting without them.

    P.S. iRobert is smitten. So is EOS. And HW . Can’t you all PM and let the other three of us discuss the fate of society?

  179. iRobert
    Posted September 16, 2019 at 7:44 am | Permalink

    Sad, I am just disgusted with liars, and misrepresentation.

    Anyway, I do prefer to talk about something relevant.

    I’m disappointed that Tulsi and Mayor Pete aren’t garnering more support at the moment. Still, they both have plenty of time to build strong campaigns in the early caucus and primary states. A good showing in Iowa goes a long way toward nation-wide recognition.

    I’m pretty sure Warren will stay in the race as long as Sanders is in it.

    Castro should drop out soon. Klobuchar seems to be sticking around mostly to criticize the candidates with more radical positions. De Blasio should have never gotten in the race. I still don’t get why he did. Seems like it might be purely for his ego.

  180. Anonymous
    Posted September 16, 2019 at 8:19 am | Permalink

    Meanwhile https://www.npr.org/2019/09/16/761107097/purdue-pharma-accused-of-fueling-opioid-crisis-files-for-chapter-11

  181. Anonymous
    Posted September 16, 2019 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    When are Republican Congress member going to introduce the White Male Sexual Assailant Protection Act so that we can protect people like our President and his Supreme Court appointees?

  182. Jean Henry
    Posted September 16, 2019 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    IRobert— I’m so happy you are reading Nell Irvin Panter and Michelle Alexander! That’s fantastic. However, Panter wrote an entire book ‘A history of White People’ devoted to documenting the premise that racism is a newer bias of European/American origin, and that it was created with intention to divide marginalized groups who otherwise would realize the commonality of their concerns and purpose. She also establishes that the idea of ‘whiteness’ and ‘blackness’ is not fixed and has changed over time in American Culture.

    Keep reading! Even if you are doing it only to prove me a liar, this is a very good outcome of this conversation as far as I’m concerned.

  183. Jean Henry
    Posted September 16, 2019 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    Anonymous– the White Male Sexual Assailant Protection Act exists; it’s called our criminal justice system. There’s no easy fix there. Our system requires witnesses. 1 in 6 males are victims of sexual assault too. The perpetrators are still mostly male. Male silence on this issue is deafening. I will never understand why abortion rights and rape culture are considered women’s issues. Men have so much at stake as well. And nothing to lose but the sickening feeling of complicity.

    EOS I have a drink twice a week. Try again. Memory is faulty. That’s a universal. You are not immune. I’m sure at the time you did not believe you were invoking biological determinism but you did. Perspectives vary. Truth is rarely fixed. If I had more time I’d look it up. Maybe tomorrow.

  184. Jean Henry
    Posted September 16, 2019 at 11:32 am | Permalink

    IRobert: here’s a quick summary of the book:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_History_of_White_People

  185. Jean Henry
    Posted September 16, 2019 at 11:35 am | Permalink

    ’The modern intellectual history of whiteness began among the 18th-century German scholars who invented racial “science.” Johann Joachim Winckelmann made the ancient Greeks his models of beauty by imagining them white-skinned; he may even have suppressed his own (correct) suspicion that their statues, though copied by the Romans in white marble, had originally been painted. The Dutchman Petrus Camper calculated the proportions and angles of the ideal face and skull, and produced a scale that awarded a perfect rating to the head of a Greek god and ranked Europeans as the runners-up, earning 80 out of 100. The Englishman Charles White collected skulls that he arranged from lowest to highest degree of perfection. He did not think he was seeing the gradual improvement of the human species, but assumed rather the polygenesis theory: the different races arose from separate divine ­creations and were designed with a range of quality’

  186. Jean Henry
    Posted September 16, 2019 at 11:36 am | Permalink

    https://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/28/books/review/Gordon-t.html

  187. EOS
    Posted September 16, 2019 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

    A large amount of scientific evidence has indicated that a great many human traits are influenced by both genes and non-genetic influences — although some traits, such as certain genetic diseases or conditions resulting from detrimental mutations, are entirely genetically-determined. The opposite extreme to biological determinism is cultural determinism or “blank slate”-ism — the idea that genetics has no role in an individual’s life. As just stated, this is also incorrect. Both genes and environment play a role.

    If a person’s genetic make-up is such that they have a substantially diminished intellectual capacity, you can educate them to the full extent of their capabilities, but they will never be smart. Environment plays a role, but often cannot overcome the limitations imposed by the genetic defect. I’m certain there are some persons whose economic status is limited by their genome. You conflated that with racism in spite of the fact that most economically disadvantaged persons in our country are white. I don’t share your negative stereotypes of minorities.

    If you were a scientist or could think logically you might be able to understand.

  188. dogmatic dolt
    Posted September 16, 2019 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    Aloha JH, EOS has given up trying to live a moral life. S/he has become entirely liberal in outlook adopting a relativistic morality. Power is much more important than morality. Making false accusations are key to being a follower of The Leader.

    As in all Sciences, there are lumpers and spliters. Those scientist who seek new understandings and or new positions relative to established scientific/social positions are usually splitters–see how new and shiny my ideas are compared to your old stale ones (thus racism is a product of 18th. century German scholars). Those who usually are defending established scientific/social positions are usually “lumpers”, “that new shiny idea you have is nothing more than our old ideas with a slightly different spin” ie. they lump your new ideas in with pre-existing ones. I don’t doubt that “modern intellectual history” of “whiteness” begins with 18th. century German scholars. That does not mean that Oliver Cromwell’s attitude towards the Irish in his conquest of the island in the 1640’s was not racist. Compare his thoughts on the Irish to “Only good indian is a dead indian” William Tecumseh Sherman.
    I would direct you to the forward of Ward Churchills’ “Struggle for the Land: Indigenous Resistance to Genocide, Ecocide and Expropriation in Contemporary North America. Common Courage Press. 1993. ISBN 978-1-56751-001-0. Revised and expanded edition: Struggle for the Land: Native North American Resistance to Genocide, Ecocide and Colonization. San Francisco CA: City Lights Books. 2002. ISBN 978-0-87286-415-3.

    A good source for a comparison of the racism exhibited towards the Irish and how that provided the intellectual and spiritual framework for the English’s attitude towards native Americans, African Americans and Hispanic Americans–the concept of “whiteness” has evolved, not racism.
    But being a dolt makes it easy to just lump “whiteness” into “racism” as part of the same concept. As we find out more and more about our past’s we begin to see that there is damn little that is new in human interaction (that dogmatic part of me rearing up).

  189. EOS
    Posted September 16, 2019 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

    OK DD,

    Based on your comments, I’ll add you to the list of those who have limited understanding of genetics. There is no relativistic morality in understanding how a person’s DNA template affects physiology and phenotypic expression.

    Ward Churchill – really? He’s your moral leader?

  190. Jean Henry
    Posted September 16, 2019 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

    DD — in fact Painter’s book addresses the changing perception of the Irish. I suggest you read the book before placing it in some imagined category in order to dismiss it.

    The German’s spent a lot of time and energy codifying their racial superiority theories in science and anthropology which is part of why it stuck so well, along side the securing of colonial power by northern Europeans. Historically northern europeans were viewed as lesser by other tribal groups. They were worthy of being slaves only and their cultures were primitive.

  191. Jean Henry
    Posted September 16, 2019 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

    But at no time were Northern Europeans defined as white or into a hierarchy racial groups based on skin tone until the Germans.

  192. Jean Henry
    Posted September 16, 2019 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

    ’If you were a scientist or could think logically you might be able to understand.’ — EOS

    Are you a scientist EOS? You keep inferring so in appeals to authority. We have heard that you have co-authored papers. I think it’s time to tell us your academic and professional credentials.

    This area is full of scientists. It wouldn’t blow your cover.

    I’m just truly curious what kind of scientist thinks the world was created 6000 years ago.

  193. iRobert
    Posted September 16, 2019 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

    ‘The modern intellectual history of whiteness began among the 18th-century German scholars who invented racial “science.”…’

    Some German scholars in the 18th century “inventing” racial “science” does not equate to “white people invented racism.” Do you understand that?

  194. Jean Henry
    Posted September 16, 2019 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

    No I do not.

  195. Jean Henry
    Posted September 16, 2019 at 7:05 pm | Permalink

    Please note that racial hierarchies were not common previous to said Germans.

  196. iRobert
    Posted September 17, 2019 at 12:42 am | Permalink

    Please note that you are using the word “common” and not the word “existent.”

    Also, please note that racial hierarchies are not the only racism. Any action or belief arbitrarily based on race is racism.

    By the 18th century racial hierarchies has existed for thousands of years in the regions where city states and empires developed long before they did in the region which is today Northern Europe.

    Also, one small group of individuals concocting what they tout as a “science” of racial hierarchy, does not constitute an entire race adopting that racist perspective. Groups of supposed scholars are always making such assertions and were doing so in many parts of the world for a long time. Any time any people dominated another they would devise all sorts of justifications for it, including racial. In no case could itvhave ever been logically concluded that an entire “race” had adopted the thinking.

    Please note that the scientists of nazi Germany developed very extensive notions of racial supremacy and very little of it was adopted by the rest of “white” people. Though obviously there are still a small minority of people who do cling to the rejected ideas.

    It’s clear that there is an effort to find some way of condemning “white” people for some inherant evil in a sort of retribution. It derives from the same impulse and ignorance that the injustices against African Americans did.

    Pretending there wasn’t systematic racist oppression before 18th century Germany is not only absurd, it is offensively Eurocentric.

  197. EOS
    Posted September 17, 2019 at 4:34 am | Permalink

    Ha! You claim I appeal to authority while you ask for my credentials. That’s funny.

    Truth is an absolute. It doesn’t change based on who delivers the message. A better response might have been, yes, I now see your reasoning and understand that biological determinism does not equate with racism. But as always, you project, and when shown your error – you change the subject.

    Just like the climate change discussion where I was told that there was a scientific consensus that climate change was fact. When I showed a large number of scientific papers that disputed climate change all we heard was crickets until you moved to a new topic.

    There are a large number of scientists who believe in the inerrrancy of the Bible. Try Googling the scientific evidence for a young earth. Seek to understand rather than ridicule.

  198. Jean Henry
    Posted September 17, 2019 at 8:01 am | Permalink

    You appeal to your own authority and questioned mine first, EOS.
    Please tell us your credentials since you often speak as a scientist. Back it up.

  199. Jean Henry
    Posted September 17, 2019 at 8:04 am | Permalink

    Robert you are again conflating racism with tribalism to make your point. They are not the same thing. Racism is a form of tribalism. Racism is in fact about belief in racial hierarchies. You don’t get to define it.

  200. iRobert
    Posted September 17, 2019 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    You don’t get to define it either, jean.

    Here’s Webster’s definition:

    Definition of racism
    1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
    2a: a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles
    b: a political or social system founded on racism
    3: racial prejudice or discrimination

    Highlight number 3, Jean, for future reference.

  201. iRobert
    Posted September 17, 2019 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    We all know you don’t believe racism isn’t racism unless perpetrated by a person you consider “white.” That’s how you’ve attempted to define it. But “you don’t get to define it.”

  202. iRobert
    Posted September 17, 2019 at 10:00 am | Permalink

    I of course meant that we all know you don’t believe racism IS racism unless perpetrated by a person you consider “white.” That’s what you’ve expressed here before. That is not the definition, because “you don’t get to define it.”

  203. iRobert
    Posted September 17, 2019 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    From the ADL:

    https://www.adl.org/racism

    “Racism has existed throughout human history. It may be defined as the hatred of one person by another — or the belief that another person is less than human — because of skin color, language, customs, place of birth or any factor that supposedly reveals the basic nature of that person. It has influenced wars, slavery, the formation of nations, and legal codes.”

    “…throughout human history,” stupid.

  204. iRobert
    Posted September 17, 2019 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    I’ll go on to post this from the ADL site as well, so Jean isn’t left disappointed…

    “During the past 500-1000 years, racism on the part of Western powers toward non-Westerners has had a far more significant impact on history than any other form of racism (such as racism among Western groups or among Easterners, such as Asians, Africans, and others). The most notorious example of racism by the West has been slavery, particularly the enslavement of Africans in the New World (slavery itself dates back thousands of years). This enslavement was accomplished because of the racist belief that Black Africans were less fully human than white Europeans and their descendants.”

  205. EOS
    Posted September 17, 2019 at 10:35 am | Permalink

    How could my credentials compare with the former owner of a failed party store? You are the only authority we need here.

  206. Posted September 18, 2019 at 11:21 am | Permalink

    From 538:

    The Third Debate Influenced Those Who Watched … But A Lot Of People Didn’t

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-third-debate-influenced-those-who-watched-but-a-lot-of-people-didnt/

  207. Lynne
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

    Re: We all know you don’t believe racism isn’t racism unless perpetrated by a person you consider “white.”

    This is a pretty commonly accepted definition in academic circles fwiw. i.e. That “racism” refers to both individual prejudice and discrimination but also to the power structures in which it exists. i.e. a black person can hate white people but unless they have the power to harm white people, it isn’t racism.

    Personally, I feel that we need new words to talk about different nuances of prejudice and racism because to me there is a world of difference between someone who is explicitly discriminatory and hateful (e.g. KKK or Nazis) and someone who harbors implicit biases. I see a difference too with those who benefit from structural racism and turn a blind eye because they are benefiting from it. I wish we had better words for it all and I imagine that those who say that only white people (in our culture because white people have the power) can be racist are simply trying to add an additional condition to the word in order to make their own discussions a bit more clear that they are talking about prejudice/bigotry/discrimination within a set power structure. If that power structure were to change, then the word would rightly apply to others.

  208. Jean Henry
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

    ’former owner of a failed party store’ — what? Never owned a party store much less a failed one.

    I never bandied about my credentials. You did. You said if I were a scientist I’d understand. So are you one or not, EOS?

  209. Jean Henry
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    I’m guessing many would dispute the ADL’s perspective. Anti-semitism isn’t racism.

  210. Jean Henry
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

    IRobert— what Lynne said.

  211. Jean Henry
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    Again with the fucking dictionary.
    We aren’t in 7th grade.

    You are a status quo maintaining machine IRobert. Your obsessive defensiveness about issues of race and feminism is truly bizarre. The obsessiveness is really odd. Your viewpoints aren’t unusual. That doesn’t make them right. Most people just let this stuff go when they disappear. You seem extremely committed to dismissing anti-racist points of view or even discourse.

    Again, what’s your investment in that?
    I know why I’m talking about it.

  212. Frosted Flakes
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 10:17 pm | Permalink

    Re: We all know you don’t believe racism isn’t racism unless perpetrated by a person you consider “white.”
    This is a pretty commonly accepted definition in academic circles.

    The fact that it is a commonly accepted definition in academic circles in no way makes this BS perspective more credible or valid. The fact that it is a commonly accepted definition of racism, in a lot of University departments, ought to make sirens go off, because it indicative that Universities are less interested in the truth and more interested in brainwashing the young into believing bullshit inorder to gain some perceived leverage toward their political aims.

    We have analyzed this definition before on mm.com and we have demonstrated this definition to be total bullshit. Believing this definition to be true requires that someone has a penchant for the bigot-logic. If you believe this definition then I suggest you self-reflect on your own bigotry.

  213. Jean Henry
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 10:20 pm | Permalink

    https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/09/17/trump-hispanics-new-mexico-rally-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/this-week-in-politics/

  214. Frosted Flakes
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

    There is no semitic race.

    There is no Jewish race.

    There is one recent court case (2018) which considered members of the Jewish religion a race. Not normally though.

  215. anonymous
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    Jean and Lynne are right. It’s not racism when a black person descriminates against an Arab.

  216. Frosted Flakes
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    anonymous,

    I will accept your judgment that there is no racism, in this case, as obviously true if you answer 2 questions: 1) Do you intend the reader of your comment to pronounce “Arab” as “Arab” or “Arab”? and 2) Are you white?

    There are entire college departments that understand why my questions are highly intelligent.

  217. anonymous
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 8:38 am | Permalink

    Frosted Flakes,

    I don’t answer questions, especially not those asked by a white devil like yourself. It’s always a trap.

  218. anonymous
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 8:43 am | Permalink

    EOS,

    You shouldn’t call the Jefferson Market a party store. That sounds low-class. It was a boutique neighborhood market. I went there, once. The chef was good.

  219. Frosted Flakes
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    anonymous,

    What you say might be very true but know this: You are humorless. There is a list of the funny people and you are not on the list.

    I find you boring.

  220. anonymous
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    That’s right. Nothing but racist devils.

  221. anonymous
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    I’ve been told that. I’m choosing not to be funny. When I want to be, I’m hilarious. I just don’t like you enough to share my humor with you.

  222. Frosted Flakes
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    It does not surprise me at all to hear you don’t like me. Let me guess: I am not the only strong woman you find unlikable in your life. Typical of anonymous: He only “likes” women who do not challenge him on his obvious sexism.

  223. anonymous
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 9:39 am | Permalink

    Where’d you read that? In a dictionary? You probably subscribe to logic too. You’re such a 7th grader.

  224. Lynne
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 9:43 am | Permalink

    Re:”There are entire college departments that understand why my questions are highly intelligent.”

    I don’t believe you. I can’t imagine anyone finding your questions to be anything other than the bullshit that they are. I also get it that discussions of racism and especially how it fits in to existing power structures make you feel uncomfortable because it forces you to deny your own racism. You are far more transparent than you realize. You are pretty much in favor of keeping the existing power structure where white men rule. Alas, the power structure is going to change.

    Race btw, is entirely a social construct. What is “white” changes as our society’s power structure changes. There was a time when southern Europeans were not considered “white” but now they are. Arabs mostly are considered to be white but there is still ethnic discrimination against them. None of this is simple.

  225. anonymous
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 9:47 am | Permalink

    That’s no fair, Frosted Flakes. You’re not allowed to post understand Lynne’s name.

  226. anonymous
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    Oh wait? That was Lynne for real? Yikes!

  227. iRobert
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    I think there are entire college departments which would get your hunor, Frosted Flakes.

  228. iRobert
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    So am to understand that everyone is “white” except black people now?

  229. Frosted Flakes
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 10:07 am | Permalink

    No, anonymous. I did not learn about your sexism from reading a dictionary. Your sexism became abundantly clear from reading your sexist comments on this blog. Luckily, old white men, like you, who think it is ok to infantilize an adult woman by calling her “a 7th grader” are slowly dying out. I know you wish we could go back to good ole days when women were your property and had did not have voting rights, but times change. Deal with it.

  230. iRobert
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    This conversation is over, Frosted Flakes. I win.

  231. Frosted Flakes
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 10:24 am | Permalink

    I don’t know iRobert.

    I might feel more confident in your assessment of humor after we get some input from “disinterested observer”. What do you think DO? Am I a funny lady?

  232. Frosted Flakes
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    This might seem extremely petty but it is important to me (and perhaps the world) to know that I wrote my second to last comment above prior to reading Lynne’s latest gem of a comment. You are solid gold Lynne! Unless you didn’t write that comment, Lynne. If you didn’t write that comment, Lynne, then I would like to formally nominate the person who wrote that comment, under Lynne’s name, onto the mm.com list of funny people.

  233. Lynne
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 11:28 am | Permalink

    Yeah. I will admit that my friends often find me hilariously funny even when I am not intending to be. I should perhaps consider it a sign of a character flaw but it gets me invited to a lot of parties so I just roll with it. :)

  234. Jean Henry
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

    Frosted “entire college departments’ Flakes, lecturer (regular assignments offered)
    Dr. EOS, Creationist Science professional
    iRobert, failed comedian/troll with WAY too much time on his hands
    HW, utterly certain, false prophet with anger issues

    Really starting to sound like a Mel Brooks cast around this joint.

  235. Jean Henry
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

    I forgot–
    DD, 9-11 truther so far left he’s right…up there next to Breitbart.
    Sad Class Clown
    John Brown, angry white man with a righteous hair-trigger

  236. Jean Henry
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    Come one, come all to the Mark Maytard sideshow review. Watch as self-deluded conspiracists claim logic and reason on their side. Not to mention SCIENCE. And DICTIONARIES. They are PASSIONATE DEFENDERS of the status quo. They will spend hours upon hours demonstrating how right they are… because people who are right do that. They are 7th graders posing as adults or adults posed like 7th graders. No Matter! The status quo is under assault! THEY WILL NOT STAND DOWN!
    (Queue a Ernst Franz Sedgwick Hanfstaengl fight song, build to crescendo)

  237. dogmatic dolt
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 2:53 pm | Permalink

    Aloha JH, Why do you always leave Lynn out of your list?
    Piece of info I came across at one of my conspiracy sites–Largest mobilization of Ready Reserve Force Ships (28) since the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

    https://gcaptain.com/us-orders-large-scale-turbo-activation-of-ready-reserve-force-ships/

    Maybe we are getting ready to pull all our troops out of the middle east. I expect the Leader will declare victory, reenter the treaty with Iran (all the while calling it Trumps treaty) and pull all our troops out of Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Bahran, UAE, Turkey (did I miss any?). Make kissy kissy with my pal Vlad, sign the biggest bestest trade deal with his buddy Borris, declare Kim Jung-um the king of a united Korea, lift the China tariffs so little Timmy has a merry christmas, and win the 2020 election in a landslide. Meanwhile planet earth’s fever goes up another .5C–which one of those predictions do you think are most likely?

  238. Jean Henry
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    There is no Lynn here.

    If you mean Lynne, I think she gets enough shit from you all. Don’t you think?

    This comment section is a pit of misogyny most days.

    If I included Lynne, it would be as a Cassandra. Speaking (mostly) the truth, if with increasing urgency, while all the fools ignore and insult her.

    Since I’m casting the thing, I’ll take the stage side narrator. But truthfully that job belongs to Mark, our own Garrison Keillor.

  239. Jean Henry
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    DD– I really didn;t give you enough time in my description, so an edit.

    Dogmatic “the end is nigh’ Dolt, 9-11 truther, so far left, he’s right… there next to Breitbart.

  240. Jean Henry
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    DD– I think most of your predictions are likely, FWIW. Your solutions suck though.

  241. Jean Henry
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    I think the likelihood is that Trump will either draw down or start a war, depending on which works best for him politically. His instability and unpredictability have a chilling effect on many of our adversaries and allies. That doesn’t mean it’s not destructive to durable alternative solutions. I know you think war is the main problem but a disabled state department creates its own issues. We could leave the war zones and still be party to tremendous harm, death and destruction worldwide.

  242. anonymous
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

    Enough with the ma’am-splaining, Jean.

  243. Jean Henry
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

    I was answering DD’s question.
    Why are you here anonymous? Just to launch bad puns.
    I kind of like ma’am planning. That’s actually exactly why I’m Here.
    I know it’s hard to hear the perspective of a woman on sexual assault, racism, misogyny in politics etc. You guys make that very clear. That’s why I’m here.

  244. Sad
    Posted September 19, 2019 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

    Unbelievable

    Netflix

  245. anonymous
    Posted September 20, 2019 at 5:32 am | Permalink

    That’s very few words, Sad.

  246. anonymous
    Posted September 20, 2019 at 5:36 am | Permalink

    Good

    Work

  247. anonymous
    Posted September 20, 2019 at 6:31 am | Permalink

    tldr

  248. anonymous
    Posted September 20, 2019 at 6:35 am | Permalink

    FF think that all of the anonymouses are the same person. i think that’s really funny

  249. anonymous
    Posted September 20, 2019 at 6:46 am | Permalink

    I don’t think it’s that funny. But it makes sense just to treat all anonymous posters as if we are one giant blob.

  250. Jean Henry
    Posted September 20, 2019 at 7:17 am | Permalink

    FF only sees an audience to which he can hold forth and offer assignments. He’s doing it for our own good. He knows how to help us with tough love.

  251. dogmatic dolt
    Posted September 20, 2019 at 7:38 am | Permalink

    Aloha, I have been neglecting my putin puppet duties. Here are some useful idiots. One of the best analysis of the current election cycle I’ve heard in a while. I am really getting to like that Krystal Ball.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZNr9YM-gy0

    If you watch you will be considered a fellow traveler–so remember ignorance is bliss.

    JH, “I think most of your predictions are likely, FWIW. Your solutions suck though.” My predictive powers suck. That is why I almost always rely upon folks who are demonstrably smarter than me. I do not have any solutions, be dead soon enough so it won’t matter to me–it is up to you survivors to figure out solutions. But I don’t think fracking and nuclear power are helpful.
    Heading out to a picket line—looks like they will be popping up like mushrooms in the coming weeks.

  252. John Brown
    Posted September 20, 2019 at 7:45 am | Permalink

    JH, there’s definitely a comedic book or at least a screenplay with the maytards all furiously typing our self righteous dribble as a representation of the whole trumpian era and the social alienation of the internet. My first reaction is Young Frankenstein meets The Dictator meets The Social Network.

  253. anonymous
    Posted September 20, 2019 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    Word of advice, Jean; consider doing the homework assignments.

  254. anonymous
    Posted September 20, 2019 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    Where can I get a “woke” dictionary?

  255. anonymous
    Posted September 20, 2019 at 8:06 am | Permalink

    i think that all of the hundreds of anonymous are like the blob, the 1988 version.

  256. anonymous
    Posted September 20, 2019 at 8:09 am | Permalink

    …and Mark is portrayed by Kevin Dillon.

  257. Frosted Flakes
    Posted September 20, 2019 at 8:36 am | Permalink

    I’m sorry anonymous I don’t understand your references to The Blob (1988). My family made the conscious choice to give up tv in 2003.

    I do have a record player. I know I should be posting something important about Trump and Russia every night, but sometimes I take the night off. Instead I pour myself a glass whiskey, set up an album, and just listen in my dark living room, while the kids are asleep.

    Is it just me or do all Bob Dillon songs all sound the same.

    blah, blah, blah,blah, ta-dee, blah
    blah,blah,blah,blah,Blah, Blah, Blah, Blaaaaah, Blah

    If you’v seen one of his streaming videos over high speed internet you have seen them all.
    https://youtu.be/L9EKqQWPjyo

  258. Frosted Flakes
    Posted September 20, 2019 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    More like Blob Dylan. Just sayin’

  259. Frosted Flakes
    Posted September 20, 2019 at 8:49 am | Permalink

    On your recommendation I going to order the DVD.

  260. Frosted Flakes
    Posted September 20, 2019 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    Fuck! The Amazon link keeps rerouting me to The Blog.

  261. Jean Henry
    Posted September 20, 2019 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    The only thing we know about ’anonymous’ is that they do not have the courage of their convictions and can’t stand by their words. Oh, that goes for almost everyone here!

    Dare: Give ’assignments’ under your actual name and I’ll do them.

  262. Frosted Flakes
    Posted September 20, 2019 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    I have a favor to ask. Hopefully one of our invisible friends can help us out. Although, I have secured a copy of The Blog (1988) through the amazon link we sadly happen to be a family that does not own a DVD or a TV set for that matter. I apologize if you already were aware of that detail of our lives. Anyway, with Fall just around the corner I was thinking about picking some apples from an abandoned apple orchard I discovered while walking in the park just down the street. I was thinking about having a family TV night just like we used to have when I was a rebellious suburban child in the 70’s who, rather than watching tv with my family, would have preferred going to an underground Punk Rock show. Is there anyone out there that can take pity on us and offer up their TV set and DVD so that we can make our TV night a reality? Also please send in your apple cider recipes if you have any.

  263. Frosted Flakes
    Posted September 20, 2019 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    “We know things”

    “We also don’t know things”

    Jean said it was true.

  264. Frosted Flakes
    Posted September 20, 2019 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    We know that anonymous doesn’t really know the essential difference between Kevin and Matt. Isn’t that right Disinterested Observer?

    https://youtu.be/nKiSfEpKofE

  265. anonymous
    Posted September 20, 2019 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    why do i get the feeling that the decision to give up the tv was made unilaterally?

  266. Frosted Flakes
    Posted September 20, 2019 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    I would answer your question but “unilateral” is a tricky word and we also made the conscious choice to donate our dusty old dictionary to charity in June 2012. A decision which we later regretted after we read a well regarded essay which explains how societies that give a privileged position to the authority of the white man’s dictionary are the same societies that are experiencing totalitarian creep. Alas, we should have burned the dictionary instead some unfortunate person probably purchased it from the salvation army and is becoming a cog in the patriarchal power structure as I write this. We are all complicit. Even me.

  267. iRobert
    Posted September 20, 2019 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

    Di Blasio is out of the race for the Democratic nomination for President.

  268. Sad
    Posted September 20, 2019 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

    Go all in FF.

    Get rid of whatever you use to comment here.

  269. anonymous
    Posted September 20, 2019 at 6:18 pm | Permalink

    Now the rest of the field can divvy up that 0.000001% of the support he was getting.

    New Yorkers are going to be disappointed that Di Blasio will now have more time to tend to his duties as mayor.

  270. disinterested observer
    Posted September 20, 2019 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

    In my unbiased opinion, Frosted Flakes is funnier than Jean Henry.

  271. anonymous
    Posted September 21, 2019 at 6:28 am | Permalink

    That’s a given, disinterested observer. Jean is withholding her comic genius from us here. She’s said so herself.

  272. Posted September 23, 2019 at 7:31 am | Permalink

    Now Warren has overtaken Biden for the lead in Iowa.

    From the NYT:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/21/us/politics/Iowa-biden-warren-.amp.html

  273. iRobert
    Posted October 1, 2019 at 7:44 am | Permalink

    Maybe Joe Biden should drop out of the race, and Hunter Biden jump in.

  274. iRobert
    Posted October 2, 2019 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    Bernie Sanders has been hospitalized and all of his events and appearances have been cancelled.

  275. iRobert
    Posted October 2, 2019 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    From The Root:

    Could This Be the End of the Bernie Sanders Presidential Campaign?

    http://www.theroot.com/could-this-be-the-end-of-the-bernie-sanders-presidentia-1838704463

  276. Sad
    Posted October 2, 2019 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

    The olds might not make it to the finish line .

    Biden is slipping.

    Sanders is getting sick.

  277. Jean Henry
    Posted October 2, 2019 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

    I’m no Bernie fan but I kind of hope he makes a public statement saying ‘Pronouncements of my (campaign) death have been premature.’

  278. iRobert
    Posted October 14, 2019 at 11:54 am | Permalink

    Hopefully for Sad, all the geezer candidates keel over before the Iowa Caucus.

    Did Tusli’s ploy about considering sitting out the phony debate circus work at all? Did she get some extra PR from it?

  279. iRobert
    Posted October 14, 2019 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    The Democratic Party is setting a bad example. Now others are starting to get in on the geezer fight club action.

    Assisted living staffers accused of running dementia patient fight club

    https://nypost.com/2019/10/14/assisted-living-staffers-accused-of-running-dementia-patient-fight-club/

  280. Posted October 15, 2019 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    Democratic Strategist: Warren ‘Needs To Have Her Armor On’ For Fourth Primary Debate

    https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/465672-democratic-strategist-on-fourth-democratic-debate-warren-needs-to-have-her

    (From: The Hill)

  281. iRobert
    Posted October 15, 2019 at 7:24 pm | Permalink

    I see anyone else here watching this dementia patient fight club tonight?

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

Connect

Sidetrack ad Aubree’s ad BUY LOCAL... or shop at Amazon through this link Banner Initiative Cherewick 2