Democratic debate open thread

I don’t like primary debates, but I listened last night, and I’m listening again tonight. I have nothing terribly interesting or insightful to say, but, as I suspect that some of you might want to weigh in, I thought I’d start uo an open thread. So, have at it.

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  1. iRobert
    Posted June 27, 2019 at 9:36 pm | Permalink

    I really like this Jerry Springer Show format BSNBC has put together. It really helps.

  2. iRobert
    Posted June 27, 2019 at 9:54 pm | Permalink

    Senator Harris is good when she’s being serious. But every time she is in situations where she loosens up, I can practically hear her poll numbers dropping.

  3. iRobert
    Posted June 27, 2019 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    Mayor Pete seemed to do alright and may have recovered a bit on the race issues.

  4. iRobert
    Posted June 27, 2019 at 10:10 pm | Permalink

    As well as BSNBC did in creating chaos, they could have done a little better. They should have just made it a free-for-all where all 10 candidates were simultaneously screaming for two hours. I think that would have better achieved the scene they were looking to create.

    It would have been fun to have the moderators each read one word of every question in random succession too. That way none of their bimbo talking heads would ever feel left out for more than a few seconds.

  5. Dogmatic Dolt
    Posted June 27, 2019 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, I particularly liked Eric Swalwell’s call for the Biden generation to “pass the torch”.

  6. iRobert
    Posted June 27, 2019 at 10:16 pm | Permalink

    I think attacks on candidates for their age, no matter how gussied up, will only hurt the person who makes them with older voters. If they think they’re going to win younger voters by saying that stuff, they’ll be disappointed. It’s a poorly thought through strategy.

  7. iRobert
    Posted June 27, 2019 at 10:19 pm | Permalink

    I guess Swalwell might just be desperate to remind people he’s not as old as his appearance suggests.

  8. Dogmatic Dolt
    Posted June 27, 2019 at 10:22 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, IRobert, I just thought it was fun. Here is Nina Turner and Cornell West’s take. Makes me want to be a Bernie Bro.

  9. Sad
    Posted June 27, 2019 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

    Whew. Mayor Pete wins again.

    He’s one ambitious kid.

    I’ll sleep well tonight.

    Can’t wait to see how much money he pulled in this quarter.

    Harris did well.

    Biden and Bernie were horrible. The rest of them are just wasting people’s money. Step aside.

  10. iRobert
    Posted June 27, 2019 at 10:38 pm | Permalink

    Mayor Pete looks young. He doesn’t have to remind people he’s young. He’s got that advantage over the other young-ish candidates.

    The culture here in the US has dumbed poor and working class people down too much. They can’t mount any actual challenge to take power in that dumbed-down condistion. They’ll always fall prey to manipulation. The only way to position the working class and poor to actually take any power back the way Sanders or Tulsi describes is to first develop a very knowledgeable and savvy poor and working class. Only then would it be even remotely possible, and even then it would be a very bloody and costly fight.

  11. Jean Henry
    Posted June 27, 2019 at 11:19 pm | Permalink

    I left the debate with the startling revelation that I v much dislike Bernard Sanders. Shocking revelation, I know. He was so damned loud. He outshouted everyone. That’s clearly his idea of winning. He’s never going to step aside. He could lose us this one too. He could be handing the primary to Biden.

    Kamala owned Biden, and she needed to, The bussing thing was a bit canned until he responded and tried to defend localized governance on civil rights (????!!!!!) Then she ran with it. And was right.

    10 years ago this never would have happened on a debate stage. We’ve come a long way. That’s what makes the old white nervous.

    Mayor Pete was myor pete. He’s already coming off smarmy. We’ll see.

  12. EOS
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 4:32 am | Permalink

    MSM says Kamala won the debate. Clearly the old white guys were too loud and too angry.

    3 online polls I looked at said Andrew Yang won. What?

  13. Sad
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 6:38 am | Permalink

    We know the places you visit online aren’t very reliable EOS so it’s not surprising that your resources believed Zang won.

    Everything I read said Mayor Pete and Harris.

    Next time the clown show convenes will be the end of July right here in the great state of Michigan.

  14. Sad
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 6:44 am | Permalink

    Yang not zang.

    Sorry. We’re going to Zingermans for lunch.

  15. John Brown
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 6:45 am | Permalink

    They seem to have a deliberate Big Tent strategy going. Somebody for everybody in the party. Even Maryanne Williamson made some good points representing the old gray hair hippie liberals. Inclusivity is the way we’re going to smash voter turnout records. Not with old white guys.

    I would have liked to hear someone (Tulsi maybe?) state that “if the fascist POS refuses to leave office or if Roger Stone starts a rebellion, I WILL CRUSH THEM”

  16. Anonymous
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 6:47 am | Permalink

    It’s too soon to declare “winners” unless it’s for the fun of speculating. My only take is Biden is really old. Not old fashioned. Old.

  17. Anonymous
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    Predicting the outcome of a primary or an election this far out is like predicting the results of the Super Bowl 10 years from now.

  18. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 7:20 am | Permalink

    I feel sorry for Joe. He is trying so hard to be quick. He is just so too old and slow.

    I believe Kamala is a corrupt person. She just wants to win, win, win. She was glowing with glee when the moderators asked Pete about the shooting in South Bend. Gross person.

    Swallwell is a weirdo.

    Of that group I liked Bernie by far the best just in terms of believability . Pete second best.

    I hope SNL does a skit. I thought last night was very funny. Where do they find these people?

  19. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    Everyone on that stage could and should own Biden.

    Does anyone think he could come close to beating Trump? Cross Biden off the list ASAP.

  20. Anonymous
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    Biden shouldn’t even be on that stage, except as a symbol of exactly what we don’t need going forward.

  21. Eel
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 8:20 am | Permalink

    I will never forgive the Democratic establishment for making me aware of Marianne Williamson.

  22. Eel
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 8:22 am | Permalink

    The “pass the torch” thing was a clearly scripted attempt to dominate a news cycle. It came across as pathetic.

  23. iRobert
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 8:28 am | Permalink

    FF: “Does anyone think he could come close to beating Trump?”

    I do. But that’s because elections outcomes are not ultimately determined the way the public thinks.

    Anybody can beat anybody if that is what the most savvy power dealers have planned. That’s why a clown with no comprehension even the most basic aspects of things can be ushered through a prinary system and then installed using a clever, stealth, yes fairly simple manipulation strategy.

    I had a little bit of a conversation with HW days ago where I tried to explain just the part about the ushering through the primary process. HW was patient, but I still somehow failed to present even just the first bit of it adequately apparently. I wonder if a more articulate and elequent person here could help me out.

  24. John Galt
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    Diamond and Silk drop the knowledge.

  25. Bob
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    Harris is such a phony, middle management level hack. With her overly rehearsed applause lines and pandering. Bernie was no louder than Harris, Booker, or the completely insufferable Gillibrand. I love that Jean uses any excuse to hate Bernie. His applause was loud and clear. The entire race has moved to Bernie’s agenda. The entire party. Whether he is the nominee or not, he remade the conversation and possibly restored it to some resemblance of what democrats are supposed to be. A possible save from the awful pro choice republican mess it became thanks to Billary. If you actually support real democratic ideals, Jean, you would quit bashing Sanders. Even if you don’t like him. At this point you just sound like an ass on the subject. Buttigeig is an empty suit. Gillibrand, Gabbard, Klobuchar, Booker and especially the laughable Beto suck. It’s Bernie and it’s Warren. Harris is a maybe, though she’s just a run of the mill party hack who’s willing to flip her opinion whichever way the polls blow. She could probably beat Trump but she’s got a ton of baggage. The danger of a former prosecutor being the candidate. Lotta fires smoldering. I’m still fearful of Warren getting killed but I’m with her. The fix is in again on Bernie, sadly. We probably need to move on even if he was right all along and set the agenda.

  26. John Brown
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    I think many of them are opening themselves up to the “open border” hysteria of the right. They need to pledge to follow the law, compassionately. And if they believe that increased immigration is good for the country pursue that agenda through policy reform, not lack of enforcement of existing law. Sen Mike Bennet was the only one getting this right I thought. And he got it right on agent orange’s fucking Ruskie handlers.

  27. M
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 10:06 am | Permalink

    The best thing ever… Marianne Williamson put to a Twin Peaks soundtrack.

  28. John Brown
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 10:10 am | Permalink

    Jimmy Carter nails it on Agent Orange. Illegitimate. Treasonous.

    NEW: Former president Jimmy Carter says a full investigation “would show that Trump didn’t actually win the election in 2016….He was put into office because the Russians interfered.” Does that mean he’s an illegitimate president? “Based on what I said, which I can’t retract.”

  29. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    Andrew Yang with that free money though…A thousand bucks could buy a hipster lot of crappy beers a month. Just think of it.

  30. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 11:34 am | Permalink

    You will have your cup of joe and you will pretend to like it!

  31. iRobert
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

    After the candidates meet on stage again in Detroit, the field will begin thinning. There will be fewer thatn ten qualifying for the September debate.

    Mark, are you going to organize a carpool (or bus) for your blog commenters to get us all down to the showdown in Motown.

  32. Anonymous
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    Why would Mark want to ride with any one of us? He knows only a few of us and probably can stand even fewer. The prolific pseudonymous commentators openly express contempt for his views. Get there on your own. Maybe you can wear a name tag with your handle on it. Better yet, watch it remotely at a local bar.

  33. iRobert
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

    It’s settled then. Mark’s resenting us a luxury bus to go to Detroit at the end of July for the next candidate circus. We could bring a sign like the ones each state has at national conversions, except ours will say…


  34. iRobert
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

    I’m sure he’ll be resenting it. But what I meant to type was “Mark’s renting us a luxury bus…”

  35. Bob
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    Andrew Yang is pretty fucking smart and his proposal actually makes sense if people were smart enough to look at it. Which they aren’t. And they won’t. That Alfalfa haircut is a nonstarter though.

  36. Sad
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    Mayor Pete has plenty of time to figure out how to get elected. If not president probablybnice president.

    Pass the torch!

  37. iRobert
    Posted June 28, 2019 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    I hope I didn’t terribly hurt the feelings of any sensitive soul here with my use of the word “Maytards.” Personally I wear it like a badge of honor and forget how so very sensitive other folks here are about such things.

  38. Anonymous
    Posted June 29, 2019 at 8:24 am | Permalink

    I have never met Mark but he seems like a nice guy. I don’t know why anyone would spend so much time on a blog of someone they don’t like.

  39. John Brown
    Posted June 29, 2019 at 10:33 am | Permalink


    I suggest always using “libtard” in close proximity to any other “-tard” so as to include an inferred attribution of this discriminatory and hateful language to it’s owners, the GOP. Reminding everyone of their incivility and general vileness is the only reason to go there.

  40. iRobert
    Posted June 29, 2019 at 12:27 pm | Permalink


    I even want to take the “Demo” off of Democratic and just call ’em “Crats”

  41. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 29, 2019 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

    “Waah! I wanna be able to say the most hateful and discwiminatowy lies about people and then cwy when they call me wibtawded…”

  42. Dogmatic Dolt
    Posted June 29, 2019 at 6:00 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, I think Mark should start a “I love Megan Rapinoe” web page

  43. Jean Henry
    Posted June 29, 2019 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

    More Marianne Williamson greatest hits:

    Sat what you will about liberals and progressives but at least most of us can laugh at ourselves and our own.

    I think HW is the most acutely sensitive commenter on here by miles. FF a close second. Bob is third and is mostly a blowhard when having feelings. They parade as righteousness but they are too dumb in expression to stem from complex ethical consideration.

  44. iRobert
    Posted June 30, 2019 at 6:24 am | Permalink

    Ali Alexander, an African-American who tweeted a complaint directed at Senator Kamala Harris regarding the way she portrays herself racially, is being condemned by the media and others for his remarks.

    Here’s a link to his twitter page where he explains himself:

  45. Jean Henry
    Posted June 30, 2019 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

    Ali Alexander is one dude. And he clearly is getting a lot of mileage and attention for attacking Harris. That’s his stated agenda. To deny the ‘blackness’ of KH because she’s half Jamaican and half Indian is absurd. That’s not how it works. Senator Harris is not passing for White. Mr Alexander doesn’t get to decide what her race is.

  46. Posted June 30, 2019 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    Stay tuned tomorrow, when we’ll be asking, “Has anyone seen Harris’s birth certificate?”

  47. iRobert
    Posted June 30, 2019 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

    Ali Alexander makes a lot of intriguing points regardless.

    I think Kamala Harris is an excellent Senator and makes a strong candidate for president as well. Her prosecutors style is very effective. Still, her comments about race were a transparent and cynical attempt to get African Americans to make assumptions about her that simply are not true. She’s hoping to benefit from a misconception. That’s not a terrible offense in my view, but I can certainly see why it would offend a lot of African Americans.

  48. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 30, 2019 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

    I didn’t watch the Ali video. Whether or not he is making intriguing points is not relevant. What is relevant is that Ali is just one dude. Jean is also just one dude but Jean’s points are much more intriguing because Jean knows “how it works”.

  49. iRobert
    Posted June 30, 2019 at 10:45 pm | Permalink

    I demand to see Kamala’s bonefides!

  50. iRobert
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

    Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-CA) is ending his presidential bid

  51. Posted July 9, 2019 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    Tom Steyer Will Run for President and Plans to Spend $100 Million on His Bid

  52. Posted July 9, 2019 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

    Tom Steyer officially announces presidential bid

  53. Posted July 10, 2019 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

    From WXYZ:

    7 Democratic presidential candidates confirmed for NAACP Convention in Detroit

    So far, seven candidates have confirmed they will be at the convention, which takes place on Wednesday, July 24 at Cobo Center in downtown Detroit. Those candidates are:

    Cory Booker, United States Senator
    Julián Castro, Former U.S. Secretary of Housing and Urban Development
    Kamala Harris, United States Senator
    Amy Klobuchar, United States Senator
    Beto O’Rourke, Former Member of the United States House of Representatives
    Bernie Sanders, United States Senator
    Elizabeth Warren, United States Senator

  54. iRobert
    Posted July 23, 2019 at 8:02 am | Permalink


    CNN Announces Lineups For Second Round of 2020 Democratic Debates

  55. iRobert
    Posted July 24, 2019 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

    Joe Biden is in Dearborn makingva canpaign stop after being enforced by Detroit Mayor Mike Dugan.

    Senator Kamala Harris is in Detroit campaigning today as well.

    You can see the live video at NowThis Politics Facebook page.

  56. iRobert
    Posted July 24, 2019 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    Auto-correct Correction:

    Joe Biden is in Dearborn making a canpaign stop after being endorsed by Detroit Mayor Mike Dugan.

  57. iRobert
    Posted July 25, 2019 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

    I assume Mark’s is renting a luxury bus for all of his commenters to go to the candidate circus July 30th and 31st. I want to make a sign for it saying “The Cesspool Shuttle.”

  58. iRobert
    Posted July 30, 2019 at 6:14 am | Permalink

    Senators Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are the headliners tonight at the Fox Theater in Detroit. What time are we all meeting at Mark’s to board the party bus for the trip downtown?

  59. Sad
    Posted July 30, 2019 at 6:27 am | Permalink

    The headliner is Pete.

    Only old people would drive there when they could watch it streaming.

    When will you old people acknowledge global warming?

  60. iRobert
    Posted July 30, 2019 at 7:55 am | Permalink

    Where is Councilman Pete having his big party when he drops out? That’ll be a well-funded one.

  61. iRobert
    Posted July 30, 2019 at 8:13 am | Permalink

    I sure hope CNN goes with the same Jerry Springer show format that BSNBC did last month. That worked out well.

  62. iRobert
    Posted July 30, 2019 at 8:29 am | Permalink

    I assume all the candidates are carpooling in to town, and not flying, on account of global warming.

  63. iRobert
    Posted July 30, 2019 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    I hope Pete isn’t too nervous tonight. Detroit has a lot of black people.

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