I too have zero tolerance

The above photo, taken by photographer John Moore, shows a heart-broken two year old Honduran asylum seeker being taken from her mother at the US-Mexico border. The scene, sadly, is one that has become all too commonplace these past several weeks, as the Trump administration’s “zero tolerance” policy toward migrants crossing the southern border has gone into full effect. According to the most recent reporting, some 2,000 children have been forcefully separated from their parents at our southern border over the past six weeks, and transported to facilities, often operated by for-profit corporations, where they continue to be housed in cages.

Like a lot of people, I was unaware of the severity of the problem until about two weeks ago, when Democratic Senator Jeff Merkley attempted to visit a detention center for these children in Brownsville, Texas, and was told that he could not enter. And, with that, it seems as though the floodgates opened, with each day revealing a fresh, new horror. Yesterday, it was a story of a guard at one of these detention facilities who quit when he was told to stop inconsolable children in his care from hugging one another. And today, not only were we treated to audio of infants, screaming as they were being snatched away from their parents at the border, but also the firsthand account of a flight attendant who witnessed the transfer of 16 of these terrified children. And, of course, photos have started making their way out of these facilities. First, there were the images of the Trump mural in the former Texas Walmart that now houses 1,500 teenage immigrants. And, today, we got to see images of younger children, sleeping on a cement floor, inside a cage.

Speaking of cages, we also heard today that Border Patrol agents would rather that we not focus on their existence. While conceding that they are, in fact, cages, a spokesperson for the agency asked CBS to stop referring to them as such, saying that the term makes them “very uncomfortable.” [You know what I suspect is even more uncomfortable? Being taken from your mother and put into a cage.]

And, it would appear as though, with these stories, public sentiment, even on the right, is beginning to turn against the administration. Senator John McCain today called the Trump policy of childhood separation “an affront to the decency of the American people, and contrary to principles and values upon which our nation was founded,” and, in an op-ed for the Washington Post, former First Lady Laura Bush called the policy both former “cruel” and “immoral”. The Trump administration, of course, has responded by blaming othrs. White House spokesperson Sarah Huckabee Sanders today responded to the Bush op-ed by saying that this problem was started by her husband, and that Donald Trump is just trying to fix it. And, of course, Donald Trump has blamed the Democrats, saying that this wasn’t his policy, but a law that the Democrats had it within their power to change. This, as we know for a certainty, is not the case. There is no law that requires the snatching of children, and the Democrats, as they control neither the House nor the Senate, would not have the power to change it if it was. As John McCain said today, “The administration has the power to rescind this policy,” regardless of what Trump might say to the contrary.

Oh, and speaking of the lies, here’s one of my favorites. It comes from Trump Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen… “We do not have a policy to separate children from their parents,” she told Senator Kamala Harris under oath this past Friday… a lie she’d then go on to repeat on Twitter. [Harris today said that Nielsen should step down over this.]

For what it’s worth, this absolutely is the policy of the Trump administration. And it’s easy to prove. All you have to do is ask Trump officials, like John Kelly, Stephen Miller and Jeff Sessions, all of whom have gone on the record saying as much… The following is from the New York Times.

…Almost immediately after President Trump took office, his administration began weighing what for years had been regarded as the nuclear option in the effort to discourage immigrants from unlawfully entering the United States.

Children would be separated from their parents if the families had been apprehended entering the country illegally, John F. Kelly, then the homeland security secretary, said in March 2017, “in order to deter more movement along this terribly dangerous network.”

For more than a decade, even as illegal immigration levels fell over all, seasonal spikes in unauthorized border crossings had bedeviled American presidents in both political parties, prompting them to cast about for increasingly aggressive ways to discourage migrants from making the trek.

Yet for George W. Bush and Barack Obama, the idea of crying children torn from their parents’ arms was simply too inhumane — and too politically perilous — to embrace as policy, and Mr. Trump, though he had made an immigration crackdown one of the central issues of his campaign, succumbed to the same reality, publicly dropping the idea after Mr. Kelly’s comments touched off a swift backlash.

But advocates inside the administration, most prominently Stephen Miller, Mr. Trump’s senior policy adviser, never gave up on the idea. Last month, facing a sharp uptick in illegal border crossings, Mr. Trump ordered a new effort to criminally prosecute anyone who crossed the border unlawfully — with few exceptions for parents traveling with their minor children.

And now Mr. Trump faces the consequences. With thousands of children detained in makeshift shelters, his spokesmen this past week had to deny accusations that the administration was acting like Nazis. Even evangelical supporters like Franklin Graham said its policy was “disgraceful.”..

So, by Kelly’s own admission, this policy was adopted by the administration as a “deterrent” to illegal immigration… essentially holding children hostage in hopes of discouraging future asylum seekers, and forcing the Democrats to release the funds to build a nonsensical and ineffective border wall. And Miller echoed this yesterday when he told the New York Times, “No nation can have the policy that whole classes of people are immune from immigration law or enforcement… It was a simple decision by the administration to have a zero tolerance policy for illegal entry, period. The message is that no one is exempt from immigration law.”

And, as you might have heard by now, Attorney General Jeff Sessions turned to the Bible to defend the policy, quoting the Apostle Paul’s epistle to the Romans. “Obey the laws of the government because God has ordained them for the purpose of order,” Sessions said, quoting Paul. “Orderly and lawful processes are good in themselves and protect the weak and lawful.” Apparently, though, this didn’t sit well with Sessions’ church. The United Methodist Church was fast to issue a statement, accusing of Sessions of selecting pieces of the scripture out of context in order to defend a policy that is, “antithetical to the teachings of Christ.”

And here we are, taking one more giant step down the slippery slope toward fascism. As Walter Shaub, the former director of the Office of Government Ethics, said today, “If this tale of human suffering doesn’t move you, know this: This is not the culmination of a drift to authoritarianism, this is the start.” [Shaub isn’t alone. Former CIA Director Michael Hayden yesterday pointed out “commonality” between the Republican “zero tolerance” border policy and Nazi Germany.]

So, as doctors warn of the “irreparable harm” being done to these children, and the United Nations Human Rights Council labels what we’re seeing being done here in our country “government-sanctioned child abuse,” we continue going about our daily lives, hoping that someone will stop it all from happening, but knowing that it’ll likely just get worse, as the Republicans control every branch of government, and lack either the will or the courage to stand up in any meaningful way to the cult leader who has assumed leadership of their party. So we sit here, in shock, as Donald Trump lies about the crimes committed by immigrants, and Ann Coulter calls these immigrant children “child actors,” suggesting that none of this is real. [Speaking of the UN Human Rights Council, the United States is poised to be leaving the group, something that would have been absolutely unthinkable pre-Trump.]

Trump, true to form, turned up the anti-immigrant rhetoric today, saying that he will not allow the United States to become “a migrant camp,” and warning that, if we don’t stand strong against immigrants, we may soon have the same kind of violence they’re experiencing today in Germany. Of course, what he didn’t mention was that Germany is actually experiencing its lowest crime rates since 1992.

But all is not lost, friends. We have it within out power to turn this around in November, when we take to the polls to vote out every Republican on the ballot. And, in the near term, we can try to bring some of those Republicans currently serving in Congress around to the right side on the issue of state-sponsored child abuse. As of right now, while 49 Democratic Senators have signed on to support Dianne Feinstein’s Keep Families Together Act, which would end the Trump administration’s policy of child-snatching, not a single Republican has signaled support. While it’s doubtful that we could get a majority in the House, I’d have to think that, if we all called our Senators, we might be able to convince at least a few Republicans to do the right thing… We have to at least try, right? And, then, if that doesn’t work, I think it’s probably time to consider a general strike.

So, can we count on you to call your elected officials today?

It’s super easy. All you have to do is call their office and ask, “Can I count on the Senator to do the right thing and support the Keep Families Together Act?”

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296 Comments

  1. Anonymous
    Posted June 18, 2018 at 10:32 pm | Permalink

    Laura Ingraham says these detention facilities for children are “essentially summer camps.”

    https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/1008896182104489984

    Goebbels would be proud.

  2. Juan Cole by Proxi
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 4:17 am | Permalink

    https://www.juancole.com/2018/06/midterms-children-hostage.html

  3. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 5:40 am | Permalink

    https://www.facebook.com/NBCNews/videos/2612824168737597/

  4. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 5:47 am | Permalink

    I’ve been looking into avenues for direct action or service. My kid will be in El Paso in a few days. There’s a lot of talk but not much that’s clear now (although a march last weekend there drew thousands and a lot of media attention, since they were being barred from covering much else. There will be mass protests nationwide June 30th or July 1st. More on that as it come together. Mean while a friend found this. A new ICE detention center is being proposed for Calhoun County MI. Not sure it’s going to make it, but if it’s still on the table, we need to get there.
    https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2018-05-11/companies-propose-immigration-detention-centers-for-midwest

  5. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 5:55 am | Permalink

    http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2018/05/sheriff_runs_6m_jail_boarding.html

  6. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 6:03 am | Permalink

    Know these laws well so that you can intervene as an ally as needed. Race, ethnicity, and refusal to answer questions are not “reasonable suspicion for detainment.” So while these checkpoints are legal in most places in Michigan because of the 100 mile from the border rule, how they are enacted can still be highly illegal.
    https://www.aclu.org/blog/immigrants-rights/immigrants-rights-and-detention/your-rights-border-zone

  7. Jcp2
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 6:04 am | Permalink

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/06/18/florida-senior-citizens-vote-election-2018-218758

  8. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 6:14 am | Permalink

    the June 30th mass protest site: https://act.moveon.org/event/families-belong-together/search/?action_id=265131128&akid=.33253723.vv6yre&ar=1&rd=1

    I truly detest protests. I have friends for whom they are very uplifting, but I find them uncomfortable and strange and they dont make me hopeful. I dont even like the ones I help organize locally. But I will attend a mass protest that is well organized and likely to get media attention over critical issues. I’m hoping this will be one. https://act.moveon.org/event/families-belong-together/search/?action_id=265131128&akid=.33253723.vv6yre&ar=1&rd=1

  9. iRobert
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 6:17 am | Permalink

    I was disappointed to see Hyperboring Warlord hasn’t responded to all this yet. I wonder why.

  10. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 6:21 am | Permalink

    iRobert– We had a few exchanges on it a while back. He didn’t really believed it, blamed it on Obama etc.

    Re the Juan Cole piece. Right now 50% of the GOP support the family separation policy. I think that will move if there is more media coverage and protest. Not a lot, but enough for it to no longer seem like a winning strategy to just hate as hard as possible on Black and Brown people.

  11. iRobert
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 6:49 am | Permalink

    Thank you, Jean. I was worried about HW. I was going to ask Iron Lung 2 to go over to his house to do a welfare check.

  12. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 6:57 am | Permalink

    iRobert– Dont you imagine that would be a little risky?

    OIG Horowitz gave his testimony yesterday, which is an event HW has been eagerly anticipating. Horowitz did not confirm and in fact denied most of HW’s assertions. There’s no hidden OIG report that reveals the true story. Trump was not exonerated from collusion; the report didn’t address collusion, etc etc.
    So right now, I suspect HW is busy employing his special ‘logic’ to twist his narrative around these new revelations, so that he will end up at the same place he will always be: He still can’t possibly be wrong.

  13. Sad
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 7:05 am | Permalink

    People with mental illness are actually more often the victims of violent crime , not the aggressors. They are often bullied and ridiculed.

  14. iRobert
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 7:07 am | Permalink

    It would be good to get POS’s response to this as well. It’s always enlightening to see what an online cosplay Christian’s take is on things.

  15. Iron Lung
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 7:13 am | Permalink

    No doubt, our resident right wingers will simply repeat the official White House/Sean Hannity line as the good, unquestioning servants they are.

  16. iRobert
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 7:15 am | Permalink

    Jean, I think your right, but I think HW May still be in the initial stage of his coping process – pot induced coma.

    And yes, I do believe it’s a bit risky sending IL2 over to check on him. But my money is on IL2 while HW is still in that coma. And IL2 has been building a perfect temporary insanity defense in his comments here on MM.com

  17. John Brown
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 7:19 am | Permalink

    Juan Coles analysis is spot on, except I would have included an explicit reminder that Bannon is a literal Nazi whisperer. He also left out the prescription for this dehumanizing sickness they suffer from. They are like the barnyard cat with severe distemper who’ve lost all rationality and are a threat to themselves and all others around. And we all know what needs to be done with that sick cat, the sooner the better…. Doesn’t mean we’re psychopaths too, quite the opposite.

  18. iRobert
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 7:20 am | Permalink

    Sadly, IL, I’m sure your right. POS and Hyperboring Warlord are almost certainly glued to the Fox News Channel waiting for their marching orders.

    I am an eternal optimist though, as I’m sure comes shining through.

  19. TPM
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 7:21 am | Permalink

    Trump sees it differently. He feels as though it’s him that’s being mistreated.

    http://bit.ly/2M5ZFIn

  20. anonymous
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 7:26 am | Permalink

    And they’re also trying to take your health care.

    https://twitter.com/TopherSpiro/status/1009043585415745537

    This is what you voted for, America.

  21. IRobert
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 7:31 am | Permalink

    For the record, I never confuse “your” and “you’re.” My autocorrect seems to feel it knows better which one I want to use, and almost always chooses wrong.

  22. Iron Lung
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 8:08 am | Permalink

    The 420 Kushlord is awaiting his marching orders from a Reddit group. When they speak, he will toke up and begin weighing in on the issue.

    In the meantime POS, will be worrying about the unborn, not living children, unless they are gay, in which case, they require either death or a corporate version of Jesus.

    The Mr. Flakes will simply weigh in to say that putting kids in cages is merely free expression, and we are wrong to criticize it, after all, Trump is a person, too and should be protected like all racists and xenophobes. The kids in cages, however, don’t really matter.

  23. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    Many of these asylum claims are fraudulent. If they were genuine then the asylum seekers would show up for their hearing. Till now they just got their date and skated off into the American sunset never to return. Some are trafficking children who aren’t theirs. Putting up pics of temporary holding facilities and saying this is Nazi Germany is shockingly stupid.

  24. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 8:21 am | Permalink

    Liars everywhere desperately trying to fling the shit at Trump.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/06/18/viral-photo-toddler-crying-miscaptioned-not-ice-custody/710396002/

  25. Iron Lung
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    The 420 Mr. Kushlord, of course, will stick up for a rich guy from New York over poor children from anywhere any day of the week.

    A sad man.

  26. Eel
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 8:37 am | Permalink

    Hyperbolic Bonglord,

    The link you shared is not about the photo that Mark posted of the immigrant children in a cage, which was taken recently in Texas. If you can debunk the photo that Mark shared, I’d love to hear it. Otherwise, please be quiet and listen for a change.

  27. Meta
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 8:39 am | Permalink

    “Document reveals Trump administration planned on separating migrant families soon after inauguration”

    https://www.msnbc.com/ali-velshi/watch/document-reveals-trump-administration-planned-on-separating-migrant-families-soon-after-inauguration-1258507843548

  28. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 8:39 am | Permalink

    I love them all and wish them well. Their parents or whoever their parents sloughed them off to are going to have to take them home though. Human beings of any age should not be used as pawns. “Oh, if we bring children then we will be released for sure! Then we can skip out on the hearing and get lost in the American sauce! Woo!!! How much to pay for a child for us to use?”

  29. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 9:13 am | Permalink

    Sad
    “People with mental illness are actually more often the victims of violent crime , not the aggressors. They are often bullied and ridiculed.”

    This is absolutely true. I dont believe HW is mentally ill. And I dont believe I ever suggested he was. I try not to use such terms lightly. I think he’s likely abusive and narcissistic with anger management issues. Most people with anger management issues are not mentally ill. They have anger management issues. They respond to stress by lashing out, the way some of us may go shopping or to the bar or to yoga or to the woods.

    Please note how HW has lashed out at IL here with invective about IL;s mental state.

    The question remains: Why do you keep defending HW, when he can clearly give at least as good as he gets?

    Do you set a lower standard for white nationalist, misogynist, Trump supporting deep state conspiracy theorists? Why the double standard?

  30. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    HW– You do understand that Trump is now using these children and the DACA kids as pawns to get his wall into immigration reform, correct?

    I mean, he said as much.

    (Sad– if you see that as bullying, I am truly sorry… yeah, no I’m not)

  31. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    This comment should be preserved in amber. Some version of it applies to every thread on this site where these folks comment:

    “The 420 Kushlord is awaiting his marching orders from a Reddit group. When they speak, he will toke up and begin weighing in on the issue.
    In the meantime EOS, will be worrying about the unborn, not living children, unless they are gay, in which case, they require either death or a corporate version of Jesus.
    The Mr. Flakes will simply weigh in to say that putting kids in cages is merely free expression, and we are wrong to criticize it, after all, Trump is a person, too and should be protected like all racists and xenophobes. The kids in cages, however, don’t really matter.”

  32. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    I would add: SAD will say something obtuse and provocative to stir the pot and then accuse everyone else of being bullies while they rise to defend the rights of children being separated from their families and held in make shift detention camps on US soil.

    Hey dont worry they are building lots of more permanent facilities as we speak.

    God why are you guys so mean to HW?

  33. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    SAD does not really seem as SAD as the rest of us.

  34. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    Separating the kids from the parents is a problem.

    Child trafficking is also a problem.

    It is as if most of the mm.com community is willing to ignore/ be in denial about the trafficking of children problem, when it is convenient for them.

  35. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    HW– Re Sessions claims (which you parrot without question) that asylum requests are fraudulent and were too easily granted: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/oct/19/jeff-sessions/jeff-sessions-claim-about-asylum-system-fraudulent/

    HW imagine you are in fact fleeing your home country for your life. You make it safely to US shores and apply for asylum. Upon arriving here, a new nationalist president is elected with a strict policy of removing black and brown undocumented immigrants from the country. Undocumented immigrants (many who are in the system and have been for decades) are being held and removed without due process or hearing.
    People who show up for scheduled hearings are being remanded into custody without trial.
    Would you show up for the hearing?

    You are heartless.

    (Sorry Sad, I know such talk makes you Sad)

  36. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    FF–
    How does separating children from their parents reduce child trafficking?

    PS I have several friends who work on child trafficking. You know what system gets abused by child traffickers? The international foster care/adoption program. You know where these kids are being placed? In foster care programs. Including one in Michigan.

  37. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    FF and HW–
    It’s quite remarkable that, despite all evidence to the contrary, you imagine that people from south and Central America escaping tremendous violence, are fleeing to America with their kids in order to sell them into sex trafficking.

    It’s just incredible really.

  38. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 9:41 am | Permalink

    My son and I had a stirring conversation this morning about why the abuse of these children and families in US soil matters ‘more’ to me than what the US does abroad. I re-assured him kt did not have to do with my concern for his or my safety. I also stated I’m not more upset about these kids and families v kids and families abroad. It’s just that we can stop this here. We have the capacity to mobilize against this and it’s much harder to do any good in a war zone on foreign soil, although people do try. And we talked about the people who do and what they face abroad.

    It was a more nuanced ethical conversation than can be had here with HW, SAD and FF in the mix.

  39. GOP Senator Tom Cotton
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    Dems’ Keep Families Together Act is better called the Child Trafficking Encouragement Act. Show up at border with a minor & call him your child, then you get released into the US! Children will be abducted & sold to drug cartels & slave-traders as a free ticket into US.

  40. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    “Please note how HW has lashed out at IL here with invective about IL;s mental state.”

    That’s self defense. Lashing out is offensive. Same as with you. It’s all on the web what you two in particular but also a whole lot of people typed about me. I tend to burn you with knowledge. If I mock the mockers or talk about what someone put in their own blog that is linked on the site we are on then so what?

  41. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    “..fleeing to America with their kids in order to sell them into sex trafficking”

    Huh?

    LA times had an article on child trafficking at the border.

    Google search:
    “Migrants, young and old are not necessarily related….child trafficking…”

  42. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    “GOP Senator Tom Cotton
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 10:16 am | Permalink
    Dems’ Keep Families Together Act is better called the Child Trafficking Encouragement Act. Show up at border with a minor & call him your child, then you get released into the US! Children will be abducted & sold to drug cartels & slave-traders as a free ticket into US.”

    Helpful hint: read between the lines. Not that you really have to. I have a hunch many of the children in care of the state have been rescued from people doing what Senator Cotton described.

  43. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    Wouldn’t that be Trumpian? Have the media in a frenzy about children in cages ripped from their parents arms then come out with the bombshell that they were being trafficked? They would turn inside out right there on camera.

  44. Anonymous
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

    Today Donald Trump tweeted about immigrants “infest(ing) our Country.”

    The party of Trump is the party of Hitler.

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1009071403918864385

  45. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

    Bad illegal immigrants like MS-13. Crying about that being called an infestation? Waah!

  46. Amy Siskind by proxy
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

    BREAKING: McClatchy reports close to 6,000 migrant children missing!

    The previous 1,475 number was based on a sample of only 7,635 children and their sponsors. HHS placed more than 42,497 unaccompanied children with sponsors in fiscal year 2017.

  47. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 2:49 pm | Permalink

    Couple of alerts about this relating to Michigan.

    1) There will be a protest tomorrow at the Calhoun County ICE holding center (previously mentioned) from noon to 1pm tomorrow.

    First United Methodist Church of Kalamazoo (FB post)
    “You have been hearing news of our government separating children from their families at our southern border. We know of a 7-month-old and a 3-month-old who are now in Michigan as a result of this practice. Regardless of the reasons for this taking place, separating children from their parents causes lasting harm. There are other ways to handle asylum seekers and prosecution of border violations that don’t require this. If you have been looking for a way to make your voice known, you may be interested in an opportunity this Wednesday, June 20, 2018. The church’s Justice For Our Neighbors ministry will hold a pop-up protest in front of the Calhoun County Jail in Battle Creek, which serves as an ICE detention center, that day from noon to 1 p.m. If you want to join them, here are some details: There is lots of free municipal parking behind the stores on Michigan Ave. They will be in front of the jail, 185 E. Michigan Ave., from 12 noon to 1 p.m. We know there are 30 mothers being held there, so signs could say, “We see you,” “We support the 30 mothers,” “Keep families together,” etc. Let’s avoid using names and focus on the issue. Rain date is Thursday, June 21.”

    2) Bethany Refugee Services out of Grand Rapids is actively placing these children into foster care. They are using this issue to solicit donations as though they need the funds to help these kids, when in fact they are receiving payment from the government for placing the kids. The likelihood that the parents will be able to find the kids becomes more and more remote as they are taken so far away from the parents. Meanwhile, they have parents eager to adopt waiting…

    From a friend who is a foster parent and is active in adoption advocacy.–

    A number of people have sent me a link to this group in the past 24 hours. Three things:
    1. Bethany will not take any foster or adoptive parent applications from LGBTQ families or single people. They are a christian organization (with a lower case c) that discriminate against families in Michigan.
    2. Rehoming asylum-seeking children 1300 miles away from their families if cruel and disgusting. It ensures that there will be zero to no chance of reunification. This is not a solution. Child welfare agencies need to be banding together to refuse these contracts and take a strong stand that these children belong with their families, not in foster homes thousands of miles away.
    3. The money that Bethany makes from this contract allowed them to drop their prices on international adoptions to be more competitive in the market. Black and brown children are not commodities and NO ONE should be profiting off of their family disruptions.”

    Please, if you feel a need to through money at this issue, be very careful where that money goes.

    It looks like I’m going to the march in DC on June 30th. There are busses going by I intend to drive to Baltimore and stay with my sister. There will also be marches in Ann Arbor and Detroit and across the country. MoveOn.org is organizing. Not my favorite political organization, but so far I have heard no complaints about them taking the lead on this.

    .

  48. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

    I am busy and have no time to proof-read and keep getting pulled off course. Please bear with me. That info is important I think.

    EOS hasn’t chimed in here but I heard an Anti-abortion activist and radio personality on NPR today. The host did a good job holding her feet to the fire about reconciling her pro-life stance with her support for family separation policy. And this is how the woman replied:

    “Well we can’t take care of everybody and all the children in the world; There are far too many of them.”

    Yeah. No shit.
    I just about spit out my coffee.

    Never have the far right revealed their hand so clearly as on this issue.

    To their credit, many evangelical Christians are actively protesting this policy and not trying to profit from it either financially or politically.

  49. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    Hey HW and FF ! How do you guys reconcile this with your expressed belief that this policy somehow fights sexual predators and sex trafficking?
    https://theintercept.com/2018/04/11/immigration-detention-sexual-abuse-ice-dhs/

  50. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

    Hey HW and FF ! How do you guys reconcile this with your expressed belief that this policy somehow fights sexual predators and sex trafficking?

    Why do you never ever ever think these things through? From your own link this ICE abuse report mostly deals with the Obama era. It’s like you don’t even read these articles you put up. It just smells like something that would probably go against Trump so you throw it out there!

    “The reports obtained by The Intercept include 1,224 complaints filed between 2010 and September 2017, primarily about incidents that took place in ICE custody. But in earlier responses, officials with the DHS Office of Inspector General indicated that the office received some 33,000 complaints between 2010 and 2016 alleging a wide range of abuses in immigration detention. The OIG provided records documenting investigations for just 2 percent of the complaints it shared with The Intercept.”

  51. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    HW— so what you are saying is that even though detentions have increased under Trump, especially the number of (now) unaccompanied minors, you have confidence that his family separation and immigration policy is all about keeping people safe from sexual abuse and sex trafficking?

  52. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

    It would tend to have that effect since people can’t bring a child, get a hearing date, then disappear. It creates a demand for children who are used to fraudulently get a hearing scheduled. Once they have the date scheduled and they are released into the USA what happens to the child?

  53. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

    This policy is designed to force a change in the LOOPHOLE of asking for asylum especially with a child and being released into the country for a hearing later. Most didn’t return for their hearing. Do you think that is a good policy?

  54. Bartleby
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/19/us/raices-charity-border-immigrants.html

    I would prefer not to be heedless to others suffering.

  55. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

    I think, given the INS back ups and the predatory behavior of ICE and the inability of congress to fix immigration policy (for decades…) so that it’s functional, it makes perfect sense to release minors to family or sponsors and not track them. And it makes perfect sense for people facing removal from the US to not show up for hearings.

    People don’t like to participate in inhane and dysfunctional systems.

    It’s common for apologists for transparently fucked up systems to blame the victims.

    I and most people here supported Inama and were critical of many of his policies, including immigration. But we all know this is much worse. It stings me that you can’t muster up a single criticism of Trump. You’ve fallen for a cult of personality. And imagine yourself to be independent thinking. It’s very sad.

  56. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

    Autocorrect is having a field day.

    Consider that comment a puzzle. Enjoy.

  57. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

    ‘Helpful hint: read between the lines. Not that you really have to. I have a hunch many of the children in care of the state have been rescued from people doing what Senator Cotton described.‘

    That explains why they are weeping in detention right?

    It’s amazing to me that you would fall for that line of reasoning. More than 2000 children. And you think this family separation policy is a child sex ring sting operation?

    I’m going to have to disregard everything you have to say going forward.

    You are possibly a more corrupt fool than HW, FF. If only because I thought you capable of more nuanced thought and humanitarian capacity. I am truly disappointed. Please watch the news. Thanks.

  58. site admin
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 6:47 pm | Permalink

    In related news, the US pulled out of the UN Human Rights Council today.

    CNN: US Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley announces the United States is withdrawing from the UN Human Rights Council, referring to the group as “a cesspool of political bias” https://cnn.it/2tcAVHB

  59. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

    Totalitarian creep.

  60. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

    Jean,

    You are acting like children are not human trafficked in a lot of different ways. It is my understanding that immigrants posing as relatives with toddlers and babies in order to increase the likelihood of being released with a court date, is a thing. I have seen multiple reports. The LA times article I shared mentioned this aspect of child trafficking at the borders and even mentioned that the same children were seen showing up with different adults, at the border, at different times. If that is true, then the child trafficking is the presence of the children at the border posing as relatives…. Are you disputing that this is happening? Is that all bullshit? I don’t know! I do know that I find it very odd that places like mm.com do not want to talk about that aspect of this problem. I find it very odd that you would assume that when we were talking about child trafficking at the border you would have assumed that we were saying that parents were making the long trek so they could sell their own children into child sexual slavery. What are you talking about? The allegation is that the babies and toddlers are being used by criminals/ coyotes/ traffickers to help people arrive and stay in the US. It is not hard to imagine that, if it is true that having a child at the border has increased an immigrants likelihood of remaining in the US that there would be a lot of money involved in “borrowing” a baby for such purposes. Are you disputing the truth of it? I am willing to listen if you have anything to say about that aspect….A baby crying for her mommy is not proof that this is not going on…You sound so naive.

    My point was the problems here are perhaps more complex….

    Definitely some politicking going on, no?

  61. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 8:05 pm | Permalink

    “It’s amazing to me that you would fall for that line of reasoning. More than 2000 children. And you think this family separation policy is a child sex ring sting operation?”

    I don’t think I said that did I? Why would some of them not be trafficking victims though? We know that is a major problem on the Mexican border. We know human trafficking is a major focus of Donald Trump and Jeff Sessions. We know border security is a major focus also.

  62. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

    “That explains why they are weeping in detention right?”

    I mean how many of these people have you seen? A lot of these kids are probably getting three square meals for the first time in their life.

    …Trump met today with House Republicans to discuss the two bills that deal with this issue.

  63. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

    Regarding Trump and human trafficking in general he is kicking major ass, something you had snide comments about I’m sure. What’s up now? There have been a bunch of stories like this in the Trump era. This is the latest.

    https://rebekahworsham.org/2018/06/15/pedogate-crackdown-police-find-51-of-76-missing-michigan-children-as-trump-crackdown-on-child-sex-trafficking-continues/

    June 15th
    FLINT, Mich — Dozens of Michigan children who had been reported missing were rescued on Thursday as part of an ongoing effort by the Trump administration to crack down on child sex traffickers.
    According to a report published by WEIY-TV, 51 of the state’s 76 reported missing children were uncovered as part of a sting carried out by state and local police.
    Investigators told WEYI that the goal was to locate children who had slipped through the cracks after being reported missing from school and, or foster care.
    Police say many of the children who were located were victims of human trafficking.
    The event was just the latest in a string of efforts by the federal government to rescue children who are at risk of human trafficking.
    A sting on the sex-trafficking trade in the metro Atlanta area last week netted dozens of arrests and led to the rescue of approximately 160 children who had been forced to work as sex slaves.
    Approximately 150 arrests were made in accordance with the Atlanta bust, known as Operation Safe Summer, and the children rescued, some as young as 3-years-old, were taken into protective custody.
    President Trump’s battle against child sex trafficking, which he has made a priority in his administration, has resulted in thousands of arrests nationwide, mostly unreported by the mainstream media.
    Genesee County Sheriff Robert Pickell says his officers will continue to work until the remaining missing children are located.

  64. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

    FF— everything is complex. What is not complicated is that you are justifying the separation of 2000+ children from their families with the idea that some of those parents are actually sex traffickers.

    If the children were being held captive by sex traffickers why would they be screaming at separation and weeping and refusing to play in captivity.

    Your need to rationalize yet another obviously immoral and inhumane position (one condemned by the UN and every major refugees and human rights agency) has been noted. You are corrupt beyond all Measure and without any moral compass.

    HW there are indeed recordings out there. Dig a little deeper.

    This idea that these kids are better off separated from their families just because they were seeking asylum is grotesque.

    What if someday you fall on hard times and someone took your child from you. That would be ok. They’d probably be better off right?

    It follows. Either that or you believe some people are less deserving of basic human decency than you.

  65. Sad
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

    They’re only a pawn in his game. He being Trump, they being the children and the border agents, and the supporters of this policy. Just to be clear.

    https://youtu.be/KY2lQV3ADfc

  66. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

    You don’t get it. I think you should talk to your friend, who you mentioned, is in touch with child trafficking issues. Maybe your friend can explain the nature of the child trafficking that is allegedly going on.

  67. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 9:25 pm | Permalink

    “HW there are indeed recordings out there. Dig a little deeper.”

    That’s an illogical answer. I asked how many have you have seen and you answer by repeating that recordings are out there.

    You fuckin’ dork. These children are used as pawns. Only 2,000 of 12,000 were with their parents. Why would the families of the 2,000 try to sneak in if they have a legitimate asylum claims? They are trying to take advantage of the Bush/Obama era policies. They will be reunited and deported. That is the right thing to do. Why do you want an open border? That would suck. We would have to take care of everyone in the hemisphere? Oookaaay, sounds GREAT! Why don’t you open your door to illegal immigrants 24/7? Hand out a few flyers, keys, put up your address here on the forum…

  68. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

    I have housed a lot of people over the years and would not hesitate to house illegal refugees especially those seeking asylum. My family housed south East Asian refugees from the time I was 9 until I was in college. It was one of the great gifts of my life.

    It’s a wonderful thing to open ones home to others. It’s not always easy but it’s usually very temporary, and people leave and do amazing things out in the wider world. I highly reccomend the experience.

    Ps when I talk about affordable housing, local ann arborites often ask me why I don’t house the homeless then. Except I have done so. Again I’m not sure why people think it inconceivable. I have found people elsewhere in the world to be quite generous and hospitable in this way. Maybe Americans are too far removed from the possibility of their own homelessness to properly empathize.

  69. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 9:44 pm | Permalink

    Ps my address is part of the public record. It’s not hidden. Neither is my name here fake. I refuse to live in fear and suspicion.
    Plus my dog is pretty damn smart about people.

  70. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 9:48 pm | Permalink

    You never just let anyone come through though do you? It has to be controlled. I’m saying anytime day or night you need to let any illegal immigrant come in and use your place.

  71. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 9:49 pm | Permalink

    Hey HW— I don’t hear you crowing about IG Horowitz testimony. Turns out there was no hidden OIG report likevyou said. You were simply wrong according to the man himself.

    What will you do now? What for the next OIG report to get your redemptions at last? Because Right now it appears you’ve bee. Fooled. Right now it seems you have been proven wrong. So wrong your willing to repackage this refugee crisis as a sex trafficking sting.
    Nice.

  72. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 9:52 pm | Permalink

    There is plenty in the one released this week. It’s well known it was reviewed and changed by the FBI/DOJ before release. That is part of the process. They can accept the changes or not. I am pretty sure it was altered.

  73. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 9:52 pm | Permalink

    HW— 1) a House is not an entire country
    2) being opposed to this policy does not jean one supports open borders.

    But I personally would prefer it, European Union style, in North America

    That would make it easier to move to canada

  74. Jean Henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 9:54 pm | Permalink

    So HW fovyou still tryst IG Horowitz or not??

  75. Jean henry
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

    ‘Do you still trust IG Horowitz ‘**

  76. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

    You’re all fucked up. Hahaha. You have no idea what is going on. Comey is under investigation by Horowitz now. That alone is worth the price of admission. John Huber has much more power to indict than the IG. No one expected indictments from this report. It is investigatory only really.

  77. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 9:56 pm | Permalink

    Jesus Christ

  78. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 19, 2018 at 10:01 pm | Permalink

    “a House is not an entire country”

    Presumably an entire countries worth of illegal immigrants wouldn’t actually show up. Just all the ones in this area.

    Hillary Clinton supports open borders in private speeches so you are on the right track in the eyes of the old anti-American pussbag.

  79. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 3:26 am | Permalink

    Preschool age children: https://apnews.com/dc0c9a5134d14862ba7c7ad9a811160e

    The more you try to justify this; the larger a hole you dig.

    The stories will get out over time. If these toddlers were all just shields for coyotes then their parents would not have lawyers trying to reconnect them, r right?

    Everything you are saying is easily shown to be evasion and inaccuracy. Meanwhile it is noted that you would rather see children suffer than admit you are wrong. Again, you have the perfect president.

    You too are a horrible human being.

    And he has more excuses than you do, FF.

  80. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 3:32 am | Permalink

    HW I said nothing about indictments. I understand that IG’s can’t indict. I said so in the past. The reality is that that Horowitz’ testimony contradicted your statements.
    I’m not concerned with Comey.
    The Russia investigation stands. Our world has not shifted.

    Your strange reality was in no way validated. Comey? You are grasping at straws. Why would any of us care about that guy? He threw the election to Trump. But that’s not why Trump fired him. Trump couldn’t keep his dick in his pants or his thumbs off twitter and so he has revealed his hand. He’s screwed and IG Horowitz’ much anticipated report did nothing to help him.

  81. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 3:59 am | Permalink

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/06/trump-immigrants-infest/563159/

    ” “We have people coming into the country, or trying to come in—and we’re stopping a lot of them—but we’re taking people out of the country. You wouldn’t believe how bad these people are. These aren’t people. These are animals.”

    “The people of Germany are turning against their leadership as migration is rocking the already tenuous Berlin coalition. Crime in Germany is way up. Big mistake made all over Europe in allowing millions of people in who have so strongly and violently changed their culture!…We don’t want what is happening with immigration in Europe to happen with us!”

    “Democrats are the problem. They don’t care about crime and want illegal immigrants, no matter how bad they may be, to pour into and infest our Country,”

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/06/trump-immigrants-infest/563159/

  82. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 4:01 am | Permalink

    via FB:
    Have you heard that children were separated from their parents under Obama & Clinton? Then, you need a little Facts vs Myths lesson. Michelle Martin, PhD Cal State Fullerton summed up the most important FACTS:

    There is so much misinformation out there about the Trump administration’s new “zero tolerance” policy that requires criminal prosecution, which then warrants the separating of parents and children at the border. Before responding to a post defending this policy, please do your research…As a professor at a local Cal State, I research and write about these issues, so here, I’ll make it easier for you:

    Myth: This is not a new policy and was practiced under Obama and Clinton – FALSE. The policy to separate parents and children is new and was instituted on 4/6/2018. It was the brainchild of John Kelly and Stephen Miller to serve as a deterrent for undocumented immigration, approved by Trump, and adopted by Sessions. Prior administrations detained migrant families, but didn’t have a practice of forcibly separating parents from their children unless the adults were deemed unfit. https://www.justice.gov/…/press-rele…/file/1049751/download…

    Myth: This is the only way to deter undocumented immigration – FALSE. Annual trends show that arrests for undocumented entry are at a 46 year low, and undocumented crossings dropped in 2007, with a net loss (more people leaving than arriving). Deportations have increased steadily though (spiking in 1996 and more recently), because several laws that were passed since 1996 have made it legally more difficult to gain legal status for people already here, and thus increased their deportations (I address this later under the myth that it’s the Democrats’ fault). What we mostly have now are people crossing the border illegally because they’ve already been hired by a US company, or because they are seeking political asylum. Economic migrants come to this country because our country has kept the demand going. But again, many of these people impacted by Trump’s “zero tolerance” policy appear to be political asylum-seekers. https://www.npr.org/…/arrests-for-illegal-border-crossings-…

    Myth: Most of the people coming across the border are just trying to take advantage of our country by taking our jobs – FALSE. Most of the parents who have been impacted by Trump’s “zero tolerance” policy have presented themselves as political asylum-seekers at a U.S. port-of-entry, from El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras. Rather than processing their claims, they have been taken into custody on the spot and had their children ripped from their arms. The ACLU alleges that this practice violates the Asylum Act, and the UN asserts that it violates the UN Treaty on the State of Refugees, one of the few treaties the US has ratified. This is an illegal act on the part of the United States government, not to mention morally and ethically reprehensible. https://www.nytimes.com/…/meatpackers-profits-hinge-on-pool…

    Myth: We’re a country that respects the Rule of Law, and if people break the law, this is what they get – FALSE. We are a country that has an above-ground system of immigration and an underground system. Our government (under both parties) has always been aware that US companies recruit workers in the poorest parts of Mexico for cheap labor, and ICE (and its predecessor INS) has looked the other way because this underground economy benefits our country to the tune of billions of dollars annually. Thus, even though the majority of people crossing the border now are asylum-seekers, those who are economic migrants (migrant workers) likely have been recruited here to do jobs Americans will not do. https://www.upi.com/…/Donald-Trumps-wall-ign…/2621477498203/

    Myth: The children have to be separated from their parents because there parents must be arrested and it would be cruel to put children in jail with their parents – FALSE. First, in the case of economic migrants crossing the border illegally, criminal prosecution has not been the legal norm, and families have been kept together at all cost. Also, crossing the border without documentation is a typically a misdemeanor not requiring arrest, but rather a civil proceeding. Additionally, parents who have been detained have historically been detained with their children in ICE “family residential centers,” again, for civil processing. The Trump administration’s shift in policy is for political purposes only, not legal ones. See p. 18: https://www.aclu.org/…/ms-l-v-ice-plaintiffs-opposition-def…

    Myth: We have rampant fraud in our asylum process the proof of which is the significant increase we have in the number of people applying for asylum. FALSE. The increase in asylum seekers is a direct result of the increase in civil conflict and violence across the globe. While some people may believe that we shouldn’t allow any refugees into our country because “it’s not our problem,” neither our current asylum law, nor our ideological foundation as a country support such an isolationist approach. There is very little evidence to support Sessions’ claim that abuse of our asylum-seeking policies is rampant. Also, what Sessions failed to mention is that the majority of asylum seekers are from China, not South of the border. Here is a very fair and balanced assessment of his statements: http://www.politifact.com/…/jeff-sessions-claim-about-asyl…/

    Myth: The Democrats caused this, “it’s their law.” FALSE. Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats caused this, the Trump administration did (although the Republicans could fix this today, and have refused). I believe what this myth refers to is the passage of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, which were both passed under Clinton in 1996. These laws essentially made unauthorized entry into the US a crime (typically a misdemeanor for first-time offenders), but under both Republicans and Democrats, these cases were handled through civil deportation proceedings, not a criminal proceeding, which did not require separation. And again, even in cases where detainment was required, families were always kept together in family residential centers, unless the parents were deemed unfit (as mentioned above). Thus, Trump’s assertion that he hates this policy but has no choice but to separate the parents from their children, because the Democrats “gave us this law” is false and nothing more than propaganda designed to compel negotiation on bad policy. https://www.independent.co.uk/…/trump-democrats-us-border-m…

    Myth: The parents and children will be reunited shortly, once the parents’ court cases are finalized. FALSE. Criminal court is a vastly different beast than civil court proceedings. Also, the children are being processed as unaccompanied minors (“unaccompanied alien children”), which typically means they are sent into the custody of the Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR), which is part of the Department of Health and Human Services (DHS). Under normal circumstances when a child enters the country without his or her parent, ORR attempts to locate a family member within a few weeks, and the child is then released to a family member, or if a family member cannot be located, the child is placed in a residential center (anywhere in the country), or in some cases, foster care. Prior to Trump’s new policy, ORR was operating at 95% capacity, and they simply cannot effectively manage the influx of 2000+ children, some as young as 4 months. Also, keep in mind, these are not unaccompanied minor children, they have parents. There is great legal ambiguity on how and even whether the parents will get their children back because we are in uncharted territory right now. According to the ACLU lawsuit (see below), there is currently no easy vehicle for reuniting parents with their children. Additionally, according to a May 2018 report, numerous cases of verbal, physical and sexual abuse were found to have occurred in these residential centers. https://www.aclu.org/…/aclu-obtains-documents-showing-wides…

    Myth: This policy is legal. LIKELY FALSE. The ACLU filed a lawsuit against the Trump administration on 5/6/18, and a recent court ruling denied the government’s motion to dismiss the suit. The judge deciding the case stated that the Trump Administration policy is “brutal, offensive, and fails to comport with traditional notions of fair play and decency.” The case is moving forward because it was deemed to have legal merit. https://www.bloomberg.com/…/aclu-suit-over-child-separation…

  83. EOS
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 5:24 am | Permalink

    If someone brings their kids with them when they decide to break the law, they should anticipate being separated from their kids when they are imprisoned while their case is being considered. The kids are placed with another family member, or foster home, or juvenile facility until their parents case is settled. It’s not Trump’s policy to separate families, it’s the current law. Separating the children from parents who are apprehended for committing crimes is standard procedure throughout our country for both citizens and non-citizens. The only other options would be to incarcerate children in adult prisons or ignore the rule of law and let criminals with children go free. And following current law, the family will again be reunited in a very short time as they are deported back to their original country. The vast majority of Americans want to welcome immigrants who come here legally, respect our laws, and assimilate into our culture.

  84. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 5:47 am | Permalink

    lol

  85. Jcp2
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 5:50 am | Permalink

    It’s the “I’m sorry, this hurts me more than it’s going to hurt you” explanation.

  86. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 5:52 am | Permalink

    Jean,

    Google search: “eye-popping surge of illegal I mmigrants abducting children”.

    On pace for a 900 percent increase of these types of border crossing attempts over 2017. Gee, I wonder how/ why we are catching so many more cases of child trafficking?

    Pretending like child trafficking is not part of the problem is, at this point, just goofy on your part.

  87. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 5:52 am | Permalink

    “being opposed to this policy does not jean one supports open borders”

    I fully support open borders. Whoever wants to come here, should. If one can’t make a living, one will leave. Just as the criminalization of marijuana leads to needless imprisonments, the criminalization of work by immigrants leads to labor abuse.

    Let anyone who wants to come and make a life here do so.

  88. wobblie
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 6:42 am | Permalink

    EOS, the law the parents are breaking is a misdemeanor. The penalty is deportation. The routine seizing of children for misdemeanor offenses only happens to those folks who white folks look down on. Please show me one other misdemeanor offense in which the state seizes your children without due process.

    This is all about walls, and it seems you have already walled yourself off mentally from the bulk of humanity.

  89. wobblie
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 6:46 am | Permalink

    Some Republicans refuse to give up their humanity. Steve Schmidt, McCains 2008 campaign manager tweeted this morning.

    Steve Schmidt

    @SteveSchmidtSES

    29 years and nine months ago I registered to vote and became a member of The Republican Party which was founded in 1854 to oppose slavery and stand for the dignity of human life. Today I renounce my membership in the Republican Party. It is fully the party of Trump.

  90. Jcp2
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 6:52 am | Permalink

    In his zeal to be righteous, POS has become closer to a Pharisee than a Christian. Sad!

  91. EOS
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 7:00 am | Permalink

    There are currently over 760,000 children separated from their active duty military parents. Never saw any Democrats whining or protesting that.

    The Democrats response to illegal immigration is analogous to welcoming a criminal who breaks in to your home, to make themselves comfortable and take whatever they want from your personal property and stay as long as they want. It would be different if they asked and were invited, but not the same if they appropriate the things you have worked hard for against your will.

  92. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 7:00 am | Permalink

    IL — please note I also supported open borders… in the next sentence.
    For some reason, lately, partial quotes out of context make me upset.

  93. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 7:03 am | Permalink

    “There are currently over 760,000 children separated from their active duty military parents.”

    They are not being held in detention camps or fostered out to families under conditions in which they are unlikely to ever be re-united.

    I call bullshit EOS. Nice try. (PS HW already tried that one with convicts too. Only 3% of those kids end up in foster care.

  94. EOS
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 7:06 am | Permalink

    Anytime a person is taken into custody, their children are placed in a supervised living environment. No one would want a child to roam the streets until their parent is released. If these illegal immigrants are granted asylum, they will be reunited with their parents. If their parents are deported, the children will leave with them.

  95. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 7:12 am | Permalink

    EOS– you know damn well that immigrants do not steal from US citizens or the economy. They have a lower rate of crime than the regular population and their labor here is a net plus for our economy, even when they use our social services and education system.

    They should be allowed to work here and return home freely. For a very long time they were able to within a 50 miles of the border. The whole intense border enforcement thing is very new. If you are concerned about illegal immigration why not go after the employers who hire them instead of families with children.

    Lastly, Jesus was the newborn child of refugee parents hiding from persecution and seeking a place to rest. You would have ripped Jesus from the manger, fostered him out and deported Mary and Joseph.

    You are the least Christian Christian I have ever met. Where I grew up Fundamentalist and Evangelical Christians house and care for refugees as part of a mandate they see in the Bible.

  96. EOS
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 7:12 am | Permalink

    Face it, Democrats welcome those who break the law because it’s been widely established that those persons are more likely to vote Democratic. The whole Democratic platform is to give things to those who haven’t worked to earn them.

  97. EOS
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 7:14 am | Permalink

    Guess you have proven that I am not a Fundamentalist or Evangelical. (And not a fundamentalist or evangelical either!)

  98. EOS
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 7:20 am | Permalink

    And refugees are those who seek asylum and are granted permission to enter. Otherwise, they are persons who chose to immigrate here illegally.

  99. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 7:26 am | Permalink

    FF- I have checked you claims about child sex trafficking being part of the problem addressed with this policy. It’s bullshit. Sex trafficking is a massive problem that is exacerbated by border enforcement and so illegal crossings, not prevented by it.

    In the past any girl who came through INS without documentation was screened re sex trafficking. Under the new rule, ICE is overwhelmed and the screening is no longer taking place.

    Advocates for victims of sex trafficking are worried about the current program. They are not heralding it as some sort of solution. You have completely made up that scenario to make yourself feel better about an inhumane policy. Goofy, indeed.
    http://time.com/5316116/family-separation-policy-girls/

    Lastly many of these children are being fostered out into ‘Christian’ foreign adoption programs thousands of miles from where their actual parents are being held. You dont think that puts the kids at risk?

    PS I just found out the Michigan-based Bethany Refugees Services (also known as Bethany Christian Adoption) which is fund raising around care for these kids AND taking federal dollars to foster them out, is funded by Betsy DeVos. Naturally.

  100. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 7:30 am | Permalink

    EOS–Wrong again.

    “The American Civil Liberties Union has filed a lawsuit on behalf of a Congolese woman who says her daughter was taken from her when she applied for asylum at a port of entry.

    As The Times and others have reported, asylum seekers are also being turned away when they do present themselves at ports of entry. Even when immigrants improperly cross the border, they can still legally seek asylum.

    But the administration’s zero-tolerance policy subjects all who cross the border illegally, including asylum seekers, to prosecution.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/19/us/fact-check-trump-child-separation.html

    There are hyper links within the article establishing that they are splitting up families seeking asylum before any review.

  101. wobblie
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 7:32 am | Permalink

    Here is an outline of the facts as presented by an Assistant Professor at California State University who studies our immigration laws. The Trumpits could care less about facts, the law or decency.

    Here’s a look at the Border Horror through the eyes of a Social Work academic who studies migrant communities.
    Karen Brown
    June 18 at 5:13pm

    Have you heard that children were separated from their parents under Obama & Clinton? Then, you need a little Facts vs Myths lesson. Michelle Martin, PhD Cal State Fullerton summed up the most important FACTS:

    There is so much misinformation out there about the Trump administration’s new “zero tolerance” policy that requires criminal prosecution, which then warrants the separating of parents and children at the border. Before responding to a post defending this policy, please do your research…As a professor at a local Cal State, I research and write about these issues, so here, I’ll make it easier for you:

    Myth: This is not a new policy and was practiced under Obama and Clinton – FALSE. The policy to separate parents and children is new and was instituted on 4/6/2018. It was the brainchild of John Kelly and Stephen Miller to serve as a deterrent for undocumented immigration, approved by Trump, and adopted by Sessions. Prior administrations detained migrant families, but didn’t have a practice of forcibly separating parents from their children unless the adults were deemed unfit. https://www.justice.gov/…/press-rele…/file/1049751/download…

    Myth: This is the only way to deter undocumented immigration – FALSE. Annual trends show that arrests for undocumented entry are at a 46 year low, and undocumented crossings dropped in 2017, with a net loss (more people leaving than arriving). Deportations have increased steadily though (spiking in 1996 and more recently), because several laws that were passed since 1996 have made it legally more difficult to gain legal status for people already here, and thus increased their deportations (I address this later under the myth that it’s the Democrats’ fault). What we mostly have now are people crossing the border illegally because they’ve already been hired by a US company, or because they are seeking political asylum. Economic migrants come to this country because our country has kept the demand going. But again, many of these people impacted by Trump’s “zero tolerance” policy appear to be political asylum-seekers. https://www.npr.org/…/arrests-for-illegal-border-crossings-…

    Myth: Most of the people coming across the border are just trying to take advantage of our country by taking our jobs – FALSE. Most of the parents who have been impacted by Trump’s “zero tolerance” policy have presented themselves as political asylum-seekers at a U.S. port-of-entry, from El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras. Rather than processing their claims, they have been taken into custody on the spot and had their children ripped from their arms. The ACLU alleges that this practice violates the Asylum Act, and the UN asserts that it violates the UN Treaty on the State of Refugees, one of the few treaties the US has ratified. This is an illegal act on the part of the United States government, not to mention morally and ethically reprehensible. https://www.nytimes.com/…/meatpackers-profits-hinge-on-pool…

    Myth: We’re a country that respects the Rule of Law, and if people break the law, this is what they get – FALSE. We are a country that has an above-ground system of immigration and an underground system. Our government (under both parties) has always been aware that US companies recruit workers in the poorest parts of Mexico for cheap labor, and ICE (and its predecessor INS) has looked the other way because this underground economy benefits our country to the tune of billions of dollars annually. Thus, even though the majority of people crossing the border now are asylum-seekers, those who are economic migrants (migrant workers) likely have been recruited here to do jobs Americans will not do. https://www.upi.com/…/Donald-Trumps-wall-ign…/2621477498203/

    Myth: The children have to be separated from their parents because there parents must be arrested and it would be cruel to put children in jail with their parents – FALSE. First, in the case of economic migrants crossing the border illegally, criminal prosecution has not been the legal norm, and families have been kept together at all cost. Also, crossing the border without documentation is a typically a misdemeanor not requiring arrest, but rather a civil proceeding. Additionally, parents who have been detained have historically been detained with their children in ICE “family residential centers,” again, for civil processing. The Trump administration’s shift in policy is for political purposes only, not legal ones. See p. 18: https://www.aclu.org/…/ms-l-v-ice-plaintiffs-opposition-def…

    Myth: We have rampant fraud in our asylum process the proof of which is the significant increase we have in the number of people applying for asylum. FALSE. The increase in asylum seekers is a direct result of the increase in civil conflict and violence across the globe. While some people may believe that we shouldn’t allow any refugees into our country because “it’s not our problem,” neither our current asylum law, nor our ideological foundation as a country support such an isolationist approach. There is very little evidence to support Sessions’ claim that abuse of our asylum-seeking policies is rampant. Also, what Sessions failed to mention is that the majority of asylum seekers are from China, not South of the border. Here is a very fair and balanced assessment of his statements: http://www.politifact.com/…/jeff-sessions-claim-about-asyl…/

    Myth: The Democrats caused this, “it’s their law.” FALSE. Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats caused this, the Trump administration did (although the Republicans could fix this today, and have refused). I believe what this myth refers to is the passage of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, which were both passed under Clinton in 1996. These laws essentially made unauthorized entry into the US a crime (typically a misdemeanor for first-time offenders), but under both Republicans and Democrats, these cases were handled through civil deportation proceedings, not a criminal proceeding, which did not require separation. And again, even in cases where detainment was required, families were always kept together in family residential centers, unless the parents were deemed unfit (as mentioned above). Thus, Trump’s assertion that he hates this policy but has no choice but to separate the parents from their children, because the Democrats “gave us this law” is false and nothing more than propaganda designed to compel negotiation on bad policy. https://www.independent.co.uk/…/trump-democrats-us-border-m…

    Myth: The parents and children will be reunited shortly, once the parents’ court cases are finalized. FALSE. Criminal court is a vastly different beast than civil court proceedings. Also, the children are being processed as unaccompanied minors (“unaccompanied alien children”), which typically means they are sent into the custody of the Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR), which is part of the Department of Health and Human Services (DHS). Under normal circumstances when a child enters the country without his or her parent, ORR attempts to locate a family member within a few weeks, and the child is then released to a family member, or if a family member cannot be located, the child is placed in a residential center (anywhere in the country), or in some cases, foster care. Prior to Trump’s new policy, ORR was operating at 95% capacity, and they simply cannot effectively manage the influx of 2000+ children, some as young as 4 months. Also, keep in mind, these are not unaccompanied minor children, they have parents. There is great legal ambiguity on how and even whether the parents will get their children back because we are in uncharted territory right now. According to the ACLU lawsuit (see below), there is currently no easy vehicle for reuniting parents with their children. Additionally, according to a May 2018 report, numerous cases of verbal, physical and sexual abuse were found to have occurred in these residential centers. https://www.aclu.org/…/aclu-obtains-documents-showing-wides…

    Myth: This policy is legal. LIKELY FALSE. The ACLU filed a lawsuit against the Trump administration on 5/6/18, and a recent court ruling denied the government’s motion to dismiss the suit. The judge deciding the case stated that the Trump Administration policy is “brutal, offensive, and fails to comport with traditional notions of fair play and decency.” The case is moving forward because it was deemed to have legal merit. https://www.bloomberg.com/…/aclu-suit-over-child-separation…

  102. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 7:33 am | Permalink

    “Democrats welcome those who break the law because it’s been widely established that those persons are more likely to vote Democratic. ”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/from-kim-davis-to-oregon-the-gops-love-affair-with-lawbreakers/2016/01/04/0d83394e-b320-11e5-9388-466021d971de_story.html

  103. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 7:35 am | Permalink

    Jean,

    I know it is difficult to hear but: I never once said anything about “child sex trafficking”. It’s like you don’t understand the different aspects and problem….I don’t know what to tell you….Maybe try reading better moving forward?

    I agree with you that the problems are complex though….And I appreciate that you are bringing more aspects to light….

  104. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 7:35 am | Permalink

    https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/06/our-score-so-far-republicans-89-democrats-1/

    “In the criminal convictions contest, the score is Republicans 89, Democrats 1. ”

    With Manafort, that’s 90. More to come.

  105. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 7:38 am | Permalink

    And just to get ahead of that mass shooters and assassins are Dems meme:
    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/democrat-shooters-list/

  106. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 7:40 am | Permalink

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/crime-rates-democrats-vote/

  107. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 7:43 am | Permalink

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/dec/01/ted-cruz/are-overwhelming-majority-violent-criminals-democr/

  108. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 7:45 am | Permalink

    FF– when we are talking about family separation at the border, why wouldn’t I assume you were talking about child sex trafficking. What the hell does regular sex trafficking have to do with child separation?

    “Maybe try [thinking] better going forward….”

  109. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 8:13 am | Permalink

    Holy crap, Jean.

    Taking a child across the border and pretending that child is your family member **is** the alleged child trafficking border agents and homeland security are reporting on and it does not necessarily have anything to do with “child sex trafficking”…..Are the reports that this is happening lies? Is the projected 400 cases of this type child trafficking a lie or an exaggeration? The fact that we are currently on pace to catch 9x more adults, who are falsely claiming a child is their family member, at the border, is worthy of acknowledgment. It is fine if you believe that the policy of separating and detaining is not the reason we are catching more child traffickers but it would be great to have your evidence…It would be great if you showed you understand the claim/ issue…

    I don’t have time to keep running around in circles with you at the moment.

  110. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 8:19 am | Permalink

    “Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 3:32 am | Permalink
    HW I said nothing about indictments. I understand that IG’s can’t indict. I said so in the past. The reality is that that Horowitz’ testimony contradicted your statements.
    I’m not concerned with Comey.
    The Russia investigation stands. Our world has not shifted.
    Your strange reality was in no way validated. Comey? You are grasping at straws. Why would any of us care about that guy? He threw the election to Trump. But that’s not why Trump fired him. Trump couldn’t keep his dick in his pants or his thumbs off twitter and so he has revealed his hand. He’s screwed and IG Horowitz’ much anticipated report did nothing to help him.”

    You did in fact say no indictment of Hillary so no, you don’t understand. You don’t remember what you say from day to day. How do you figure Comey being investigated means nothing? He was only the #1 FBI guy during all this. You are getting wackier and wackier as this process unfolds.

  111. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 8:32 am | Permalink

    It’s amazing to credit Comey for Trump’s victory. How backwards can you get? He tried to let the Weiner laptop slide until after the election! We still don’t know what is on it. What is in those Clinton/Abedin communications that James Comey tried to sweep under the rug?

  112. EOS
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 8:34 am | Permalink

    Those who are seeking asylum have not yet been given asylum.

  113. EOS
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 8:37 am | Permalink

    Lol. Both Buddy and Kim Davis were exonerated. Republicans side with those falsely accused.

  114. EOS
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 8:38 am | Permalink

    Bundy. Gotta love spellcheck.

  115. EOS
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 8:49 am | Permalink

    There was plenty of tolerance when Obama separated children from their parents. The rest of the country is getting really tired of the one-sided smears. Keep it up – it only helps Republicans.

    http://dailycaller.com/2018/06/19/photos-obama-immigration-detention-facilities/

  116. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 8:49 am | Permalink

    Define coyote.

  117. John Brown
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    Only deluded sick fucks would defend the actions of a treasonous Ruskie Stooge. For Christ sakes how do they not understand that Manafort specialized in working for pootins flunkies? No quarter for fascist allies when the traitor hangs or the shooting starts.

  118. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 9:28 am | Permalink

    Manafort was obviously a plant. You are really naive. Who recommended someone who was already under investigation by the FBI?

  119. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    People like you who support the real traitors are the ones who are going to have to hide your faces in shame.

  120. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    What do you mean by when the shooting starts, John Brown? That could be a very interesting statement to certain parties so would you elaborate on that?

  121. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 9:38 am | Permalink

    Continuing on the IG report released last week: Strzok in the crosshairs; escorted from FBI headquarters yesterday.

  122. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    So the two most offensive posters by far are for open borders. That is quite an extreme stance I think. Anti-constitutional extremists calling regular Americans all those horrible things and trying to act like their view is normal. Anyone who supported Clinton/attacked her critics has to reckon with if they support her open hemispheric border dream like Iron Lung and Jean Henry do.

  123. Steve Schmidt by proxi
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    Steve Schmidt
    ‏Verified account @SteveSchmidtSES

    On Ronald Reagan’s grave are these words. “ I know in my heart that man is good. That what is right will always eventually triumph and there is purpose and worth to each and every life.” He would be ashamed of McConnell and Ryan and all the rest while this corrupt government Establishes internment camps for babies. Everyone of these complicit leaders will carry this shame through history. There legacies will be ones of well earned ignominy. They have disgraced their country and brought dishonor to the Party of Lincoln.
    I have spent much of my life working in GOP politics. I have always believed that both parties were two of the most important institutions to the advancement of human freedom and dignity in the history of the world. Today the GOP has become a danger to our democracy and values. This Independent voter will be aligned with the only party left in America that stands for what is right and decent and remains fidelitous to our Republic, objective truth, the rule of law and our Allies. That party is the Democratic Party.

  124. John Brown
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    So Manafort was a plant? You should get a fucking Bitcoin from pootin for getting that crazy shit on the internet. Doing some epic mental gymnastics instead of accepting the obvious. Deluded. Traitors. Deserve no elaboration on shit.

  125. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 10:23 am | Permalink

    You’re out of your mind. I guarantee you. It’s so obvious anyone should be able to see it. You have been blinded by hate.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/manafort-interviewed-twice-by-fbi-before-joining-trumps-2016-campaign-new-documents-show/2018/04/24/bcf88ac6-47cc-11e8-827e-190efaf1f1ee_story.html?utm_term=.ff0a80624bee

  126. 420 Kushlord
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 10:46 am | Permalink

    Phuuuuckk so dank wooooah pass the bong jesterskullqanonredditICPclowndankweedcbdyoyocurecancerwoahkidsonweedphhhuuuuck

  127. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 10:50 am | Permalink

    DHS Secratary Kirstjen Nielson on human trafficking of children. That tends to support what I said, correct? “Many of these children have been rescued.” The vast majority arrived without a parent, which Nielson connected to trafficking.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/18/us/politics/dhs-kirstjen-nielsen-families-separated-border-transcript.html

    First, this administration did not create a policy of separating families at the border. We have a statutory responsibility that we take seriously to protect alien children from human smuggling, trafficking and other criminal actions while enforcing our immigration laws.
    We have a long existing policy — multiple administrations have followed — that outline when we may take action to protect children. We will separate those who claim to be a parent and child if we cannot determine a familiar or custodial relationship exists. For example, if there is no documentation to confirm the claimed relationship between an adult and a child. We do so if the parent is a national security, public, or safety risk, including when there are criminal charges at issue and it may not be appropriate to maintain the family in detention together.

    We also separate a parent and child if the adult is suspected of human trafficking. There are cases where minors have been used and trafficked by unrelated adults in an effort to avoid detention. And I’d stop here to say in the last five months, we have a 314 percent increase in adults and children arriving at the border fraudulently, claiming to be a family unit. This is obviously of concern.

    And separation can occur when the parent is charged with human smuggling. Under those circumstances, we would detain the parent in an appropriate secure detention facility separate from the child. What has changed is that we no longer exempt entire classes of people who break the law. Everyone is subject to prosecution. When D.H.S. refers a case against a parent or legal guardian for criminal prosecution, the parent or legal guardian will be placed into the U.S. Marshals Service custody for pretrial determination, pursuant to an order by a federal judge, and any accompanied child will be transferred to the Department of Health and Human Services and will be reclassified as an unaccompanied alien child.

    That is in accordance with the T.V.P.R.A., a law that was passed by Congress, and following a court order, neither of which actions the Trump administration has taken. And let’s be clear: If an American were to commit a crime anywhere in the United States, they would go to jail and they would be separated from their family. This is not a controversial idea.

  128. kjc
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    meh. you talk too much.

  129. Iron Lung
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 11:23 am | Permalink

    tldr

  130. Lynne
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    Anyone who supports this policy in ANY way is a shitty horrible person. Even if they try to justify it by claiming that it is to protect children from human trafficking. It should be clear to anyone that separating *thousands* of children from their families and then holding them in cages is wrong. Shipping them off to foster care in distant states is a *little* better but still heartbreaking and wrong. There are better ways to deal with a human trafficking problem.

    I am sad that our nation is violating so many people’s human rights. I am sad for those people mostly but also sad because it means that our nation is full of even more shitty people than I thought. The GOP base is supportive of this. The left is fractured and denying their responsibility but we MUST come together this November and vote in a new congres.

    At any rate, the best thing to do now is to vote (you must be registered by July 6 in order to vote in the August 7 primary) and if you have the means, to donate to organizations who are helping. I have been donating to ACLU and RAICES. There are many others though.

    https://www.texastribune.org/2018/06/18/heres-list-organizations-are-mobilizing-help-separated-immigrant-child/

  131. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    Trump to sign Executive Order on separation today!!!

  132. Iron Lung
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    Make a mess of your room and then act like a hero when you clean it up.

    Yes, sounds like a 5 year old.

  133. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 11:54 am | Permalink

    There is a 1999 court decision that caused the problem. Trump didn’t do that. It’s a loophole for people to get a hearing and skate. To you that is no problem – they should be able to just walk across. To people who like having a country it is abuse of power.

  134. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 11:58 am | Permalink

    HW– So it was a justifiable practice but now it’s not…
    Check.

    If in fact this practice is ended, all credit is due to the mainstream media, immigration advocates and activists, and the Trump resistance.

  135. Iron Lung
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 11:59 am | Permalink

    Yep, no problem to me. Let anyone who wants to come, come and make a life.

    Everyone is welcome.

    Going to need it too:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/20/us/white-minority-population.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

  136. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    But what about all those child traffickers who will now just be getting away with it, FF and HW.

    I can’t believe Trump is just letting them get away with using children as hostages….

  137. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

    HW ignores that ALL of his talking points re family separation were predicted and addressed above when I copy pasted a lengthy response thread.
    I tried to head him off at the pss, but apparently he doesn’t read anything we say unless it’s an attack on him or Trump personally.

  138. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

    “HW– So it was a justifiable practice but now it’s not…
    Check.”

    I don’t follow your logic here. What do you mean it was justifiable? Trump is fixing your people’s mess. The situation in the last couple of months is due to the policy you are so happy with. It amounts to catch and release. Trump is not willing to let certain parents go without prosecution. Too bad, loser. Our borders stand.

  139. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 12:10 pm | Permalink

    I heard on the radio today from an Immigration history scholar that family separation, while a longstanding American tradition dating to slavery and our genocide against Native people, was not encoded into immigration law until the Chinese Exclusion Act (1882-1943). And even then, over the course of 60 years, 12 families were separated.

    What happened over the last two weeks is simply unprecedented in scale and consequence in the last century.

    PS HW Ellis island was an open border at least for European immigrants, until the 20’s. We have restricted immigration (and yes separated families) based on race before that. It’s not a history that should have been repeated. Ever.

  140. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    “HW ignores that ALL of his talking points re family separation were predicted and addressed above when I copy pasted a lengthy response thread.
    I tried to head him off at the pss, but apparently he doesn’t read anything we say unless it’s an attack on him or Trump personally.”

    Too bad. My logic easily beats yours. You don’t even know what logic is.

  141. Jcp2
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    I wouldn’t want anybody to head off Liberian edgelord 420 at the pss. That’s something that she should take care of herself.

  142. Jcp2
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

    I’m like rubber and you’re like glue. Anything you say bounces off and sticks on you.

  143. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

    T.V.P.R.A.

    That is the problem Trump is fixing that your politicians thought was a good idea.

  144. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    HW–
    After I tear down the borders, next I’m going to take your guns, then I’m going to make abortion, contraception, and positive sex education free for anyone who wants it.

    Then I’ll make drugs legal too.

    And I’ll free all non-violent offenders and restore their voting rights and close all private prisons.

    And I’ll give kids the right to vote at 16.

    Fuck I might as well make clothing optional while I’m at it.

    Can’t wait to seize power.

  145. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    I don’t even know what the hell you losers are talking about. It doesn’t matter. All that matters is in the Trump era shit is getting fixed and so you are screwed. You have allowed Deep State/CIA propaganda to control you 100%. Darkness to light now.

  146. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

    “Too bad. My logic easily beats yours. You don’t even know what logic is.”

    I doing believe in logic OR borders, HW.

    You are slaying imaginary dragons again.

  147. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

    ‘don’t’ not ‘doing’* (sigh)

  148. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    You aren’t doing any of those things. You are so far gone you can’t distinguish reality from fantasy at all. That’s why you lie every single day. You think you are telling the truth even when you are shown otherwise!

  149. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    “I doing believe in logic OR borders, HW.”

    Hahahahaha!

  150. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

    HW has no idea when he’s being fucked with.

    So self-serious and puffed up.

  151. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

    FF and Sad should read this. Maybe they can see a bit of how they handle HW in it. Probably not though.

    It’s solid.

    “Charlatans, Ms. De Francesco tells us, become especially prevalent in ages of “rapid development of the sciences, or quickened progress in technology” when “minds are overburdened with the effort to keep up with these accumulations of facts.”
    In these periods, conspiracy theories and simplistic reductions of social ills function the same way as quack medicine: They seem to provide a cure, but since they only further inflame the underlying fears, they are just driving their own demand.”
    “Disturbing, but not, Ms. De Francesco would argue, surprising. **The danger arises, she explains, when the serious-minded journalist strives to be “open minded,” finds something “interesting” in the charlatan’s discourses and ends up being just another puffer. Particularly if a person thinks of himself as clever, he will often have a hard time admitting his own ignorance.**”

    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/06/12/opinion/trump-jordan-peterson-charlatans.html

  152. Iron Lung
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

    “I don’t even know what the hell you losers are talking about. It doesn’t matter. All that matters is in the Trump era shit is getting fixed and so you are screwed. You have allowed Deep State/CIA propaganda to control you 100%. Darkness to light now.”

    Phhuuuuuck woah deep state420kushICPjesterbongindicabud phuuuuuckkkkkk so haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaii

  153. Iron Lung
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

    “After I tear down the borders, next I’m going to take your guns, then I’m going to make abortion, contraception, and positive sex education free for anyone who wants it.”

    I support this. We should also give non-citizens the right to vote.

    And make the manufacture and distribution of marijuana punishable by life imprisonment, even in states which have medical marijuana.

  154. Iron Lung
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

    We should also require that a woman be President every third term, a man every third, and a transsexual every third.

  155. Iron Lung
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

    The President should also always be either black or an immigrant, preferably both.

  156. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

    Jean,

    The ideal solution would involve a) not separating actual families; and also b) rooting out child-trafficking. Have you read anything anybody has written here? Read my first post in this thread?

  157. Iron Lung
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

    We should also provide each new immigrant with free housing and a monthly check equal to the median US income, free food and free health insurance.

    They should get bonuses if they do not speak English.

    The money should come out of a special tax levied only on white men.

  158. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

    Problem is you are not actually being sarcastic.

  159. John Brown
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

    So Siberian Bongwater sends a WaPo link to show that Manafort is “a plant” when the actual takeaway of the story is trump campaign inexplicably hiring someone already under investigation for treason. “The information raises fresh questions about how closely the Trump campaign vetted staff members and whether Manafort and Gates told officials about their interactions with the FBI.” Everything is consistent with a circle jerk of Ruskie loving corruption hounds whoring for rubles. Fucking morons following a Fucking moron, manipulated by Fucking pootin. Your watching too much Scooby-Doo. Are you expecting trump to rip off his mask revealing thats its been Hillary making him look like a bumbling traitor this whole time? I’m starting to agree with IL2 on voting against weed..

  160. Iron Lung
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 2:45 pm | Permalink

    The effects of marijuana (a real plant) are amazing.

  161. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    “The information raises fresh questions about how closely the Trump campaign vetted staff members and whether Manafort and Gates told officials about their interactions with the FBI.”

    That supports what I say!!! WTF is wrong with you people? Did they even tell Trump about that little tidbit before joining? What might that indicate? Think!

  162. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    I know pieces of shit can’t think. The only reason I am talking to you is because I love seeing people like you and what you represent go down in the world.

  163. Iron lung
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    Lol

  164. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    The Amazing Piece of Shit – it can type lol!

  165. Iron lung
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    So fuckin dank dude

  166. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    That’s funny you act like that because I schooled you easily when you actually tried talking about Cannabis sativa, which you know nothing about.

  167. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

    “The effects of marijuana (a real plant) are amazing.” Stood in line at the coffee shop behind a young woman who had just exited Bongz & Thongs, vaping. She presented as family ok, but then stood at the cream/sugar station for 3 minutes while people lined up behind her. Then she couldn’t find a seat in the cafe with her friend even though there were two empty tables, and so she stood in front of the door chatting with her friend. I stood there waiting to exit for a full 30 seconds at least before she realized she was standing in front of the door spacing our, just as she had been standing in front of the cream spacing out. She was nice and apologized. But in all other aspects she made me think of HW, Like is it worth the trouble to say anything to someone so clearly out of it? Or do we wait and let the figure it out? If HW weren’t so totally nasty and mean, we would probably all let him spout off unaddressed.

    Stoned people are mostly harmless and stupid.

  168. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

    It’s far from over, folks.
    From FB:
    “Oh look! I guess the administration actually *can* reverse the family separation policy that they created, after all! I guess this did *not* require Congressional action, after all! I guess this was *not* the result of Democratic legislation, after all! How odd.
    In all seriousness though, while this is proof that widespread pressure is working, this is NOT a victory. Here’s why:
    – The executive order would end family separations, but it would instead force babies, toddlers, and young children into *indefinite detention* facilities with their parents.
    – This completely violates federal court orders that require limiting the duration of child detention to a maximum of 20 days, and requires that children be placed in the least-restrictive setting possible. Asylum applications cannot be processed in 20 days.
    – This apparently is a deliberate attempt by the administration to challenge those court orders – again, using children as tools to leverage policy changes.
    – The order does absolutely nothing to require family reunification for the 2,000+ children who have already been taken from their parents.
    Don’t stop, keep doing what you’re doing.”

  169. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    Shout out to Melania though!
    Trump might even get pity-laid tonight.

  170. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    “This completely violates federal court orders that require limiting the duration of child detention to a maximum of 20 days, and requires that children be placed in the least-restrictive setting possible. Asylum applications cannot be processed in 20 days.”

    That is exactly why it is a loophole. You just want everyone to be able to gain entry to our country so you are for full exploitation of it. Too bad for you

  171. Steve Schmidt by proxi
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

    HW I like how you throw things into the memory hole

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/10/a_timeline_of_paul_manafort_s_relationship_with_the_trump_world.html

    “In 1980, Manafort, Charles Black, and Roger Stone (all Ronald Reagan campaign officials) opened a lobbying shop in Washington, D.C. One of their very first clients: Donald Trump, who employed the lobbying firm of Black, Manafort & Stone through the early 1990s.”

  172. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    HW– I think people on both sides of the aisle have wanted immigration reform that makes sense and works for a very long time. The situation currently is untenable. So we agree! Unfortunately the GOP blocked all of Obama’s attempts at immigration reform, after he threw them the bone of being an asshole and cracking down at the border.

    We need migrant labor in the US economy. We also need free global trade. These things are good for US citizens.

    I know your tiny little stoned neanderthal brain can’t fathom how that is possible.

    I hope we get immigration reform soon. But even those who support tight borders think the wall is a waste of money. A grand gesture to Trump’s ego. Worthless. Legalizing pot would have a greater impact and make us lots of tax revenue.

  173. Iron lung
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    Live with potheads once and you will learn everything you need to know about the effects of marijuana on the ability to do even the simplest of tasks.

  174. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

    Oh my God– Trump is such an asshole. They aren’t grandfathering in the 2300+ kids. They are leaving them separated.

    And a judge may disallow the executive order and then they say they are going to resume the practice

    “There will not be a grandfathering of existing cases,” said Kenneth Wolfe, a spokesman for the Administration for Children and Families, a division of the Department of Health and Human Services. Mr. Wolfe said the decision about the children was made by the White House, but he added, “I can tell you definitively that is going to be policy.”

    Do not give up your plans to protest June 30th.

  175. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 6:06 pm | Permalink

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/20/us/politics/trump-immigration-children-executive-order.html

  176. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

    Remember that DEvos Bethany Refugee services is fundraising around this and taking govt money.
    It gets worse closer to the border.
    Self-Dealing + atrocity= Trump’s winning combo
    https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-06-19/trump-migrant-child-detentions-mean-458-million-for-nonprofit

  177. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

    Securing the border is a waste of money.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/immigration-border-crisis/trump-admin-s-tent-cities-cost-more-keeping-migrant-kids-n884871

  178. Iron lung
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 6:23 pm | Permalink

    Phuuuuuuck so dank

  179. Iron lung
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

    Artificially keep food prices low by criminalizing migrant work allowing for artificially low wages.

    Phuuuuuck so dank yojesterskullbong

  180. Iron lung
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

    Right wingers so dumb, “obama did it too!”

    Yeah a lot of us had major problems with the obama admins imigration policy….cause it was phuuuuuuuucked yo jesterskulllbongpot=====stoooopidtakeoutthetrashnahfuckitratherwatchstartrekphuuuuuuck

  181. Iron lung
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 6:35 pm | Permalink

    Cannabis sativa scientific name soundz phuuuuckin rad whiteguyinypsistonedasphuckphuckthosebrownkidzhateemallcauzeillbefuckiiinrichasshitifieverstopbeinstooooooooooonedandthosephuuuuckinburritopeoplegetthephuuuuuuckoutyooooooo

  182. Iron lung
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

    The only thing holding the 420 Siberian Hyperlord from untold riches is a poor brown family trying to make a life for their kids.

    #morallybankrupt

  183. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 7:39 pm | Permalink

    Sometimes I distract my cat with videos of birds.

    Hey HW– look over here:

    http://twotentwice.com/blog/best-youtube-videos-to-watch-while-high/

  184. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 7:41 pm | Permalink

    HW– what animal do you relate to most?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLONKRcJ1Zo

  185. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 7:51 pm | Permalink

    What a bunch of fucking losers!

  186. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 8:45 pm | Permalink

    “What a bunch of fucking losers!”

    Says the guy stoned at home in his underwear regurgitating propaganda from a politician.

    Who does that?

  187. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 10:36 pm | Permalink

    Tara Nbrnd
    June 18 at 8:08pm
    My child separation story:

    I live in Denver, CO. I’m approximately 2340km from the Mexican Border, but I grew up in Texas, and I speak Spanish fluently. Despite my distance, I have recently taken care of 3 toddlers, between ages 1-2, who were seized from their parents at the Border. All of the information I have on them, I obtained from their foster parents. While I have no way to independently verify what I was told, I also have no reason to doubt the information that I was given.

    All of the children I took care of were brought to the emergency department by their foster parents (foster mothers in all of these cases). I suspect there many of these such cases because foster parents are legally required to seek medical care for those in their charge prior to administering any kind of treatment. They are also required to get documentation of these visits, and in many cases, the children are brought to the ED for evaluation because of lack of a pediatrician.

    The children I saw had similar stories. Two were from Guatemala. One was from Honduras, Two were boys; one was a girl. All had mild childhood illnesses: gastroenteritis and dehydration, upper respiratory infections, rashes, etc. Their foster parents, none of whom spoke Spanish, knew nothing about their medical histories, their allergies, or their immunization statuses. They knew only two things: 1) the children’s parents (both mother and father in 2 cases; father in 1 case) were being detained by ICE and 2) they had no idea how long the child would be staying with them or if they would be in contact with the parents. These are children, who by the definition of our government, are in the safest, most stable possible situations. They are living with experienced, caring foster families, their illnesses were relatively minor, and they were receiving medical care.

    While their bodies appeared relatively healthy, their behavior was so far from that of a “normal” toddler so as to be striking to both myself, as a pediatric emergency medicine physician, and to their foster parents. Children this age are rambunctious. They climb on everything, they put things in their mouth that they’re not supposed to, they begin to explore the world away from their parents, they begin to seek and to find the limits of their world. These children, in all cases, clung so tightly, and so completely, to their foster mothers, both in the ED and at home, that they were literally unable to be put down. They didn’t explore the world, they were terrified that their world would be broken for a second time. Their trauma, and the direct effect it was having on their development, was obvious. One foster mother told me that she couldn’t figure out how to bathe the little girl properly. Since she would scream every time she tried to leave her or put her down, she couldn’t safely get her into the bathtub. She knew the child would be calmer if she could get into the tub with her, but as a foster parent, she wasn’t allowed to do so. Another told me, tearfully, “I’m just trying not to ruin his life. He screams every day for his pappa, and I don’t even know where his pappa is.”

    In all cases, these were experienced foster families. They understood and had dealt with traumatized children in the past. This was not new territory for them. What they hadn’t dealt with was the complete lack of a timeline or plan for reconciliation. They had no information on hearing dates/times for the parents; they had no contact information for the parents; they had no idea if/when visitation or contact would be allowed, and they didn’t have access to a case worker who could obtain this information. These children, those lucky ones who “made it” into caring foster homes, were floating, unanchored to their past or their future. As a PEM physician, I was utterly useless, a bandaid for a gaping wound.

    Tara Neubrand, MD
    Pediatric Emergency Medicine

  188. Jean Henry
    Posted June 20, 2018 at 11:30 pm | Permalink

    This is far from over. Please everyone stay on this. So much vigilance and activism is required if these kids and parents are going to have any shot at reunification. Not only are the children and parents already separated not going to be united in detention camps, caregivers and social services and foster agencies do not have parental information on record. And the system is tremendously overloaded. And the administration is narrowing the criteria for asylum. RAICE has raised over 10 million dollars to hire lawyers and post bail for the parents, but the immigration courts are backlogged and have a history of long delays and denying bond. And so the parents remain detained.

    https://yubanet.com/usa/trump-admin-is-intentionally-overwhelming-systems-for-unaccompanied-children/

  189. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 6:40 am | Permalink

    FF: please listen from 7:40 for a minute. “We’ve gone from 10-15% of the children being separated from a responsible family member to 90% of the children being separated from a primary care giver, usually a mother or father.

    http://michiganradio.org/post/trump-signs-executive-order-dozens-migrant-children-wait-michigan-foster-care

  190. Iron Lung
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 7:00 am | Permalink

    The Mr. Flakes does not concern himself with the details.

  191. Iron Lung
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 7:10 am | Permalink

    Right wingers and right wing apologists who simply shrug their shoulders and say “Obama did it, too” seem to have forgotten how much criticism Obama (Deporter in Chief is what he was called) received for his immigration policy from even Democratic supporters.

    That is got worse under Trump deserves outrage, but that it happened in the past does not in any way make the problem any less serious.

    So many people these days are like little kids, when caught stealing, they merely claim that some other kid did it, too…. so that makes it ok? I don’t get it.

    But this is the FOX News world we live in obviously.

  192. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 7:21 am | Permalink

    “Immigrant children as young as 14 housed at a juvenile detention center in Virginia say they were beaten while handcuffed and locked up for long periods in solitary confinement, left nude and shivering in concrete cells.

    The abuse claims against the Shenandoah Valley Juvenile Center near Staunton, Virginia, are detailed in federal court filings that include a half-dozen sworn statements from Latino teens jailed there for months or years. Multiple detainees say the guards stripped them of their clothes and strapped them to chairs with bags placed over their heads”

    a top manager at the Shenandoah center said during a recent congressional hearing that the children did not appear to be gang members and were suffering from mental health issues resulting from trauma that happened in their home countries — problems the detention facility is ill-equipped to treat.

    “The youth were being screened as gang-involved individuals. And then when they came into our care, and they were assessed by our clinical and case management staff … they weren’t necessarily identified as gang-involved individuals,” said Kelsey Wong, a program director at the facility.

    https://apnews.com/afc80e51b562462c89907b49ae624e79

  193. Iron Lung
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 7:29 am | Permalink

    Though right wingers will attest that the concentration camps are like bording schools, I think that Abu Graib should be reason to believe these reports and approach right wing denials with extreme caution.

    The costs of downplaying the problem are far greater than any sort of political benefits the right might gain from covering it up.

    But it is clear that the American right cares little for brown kids, or really any kids at all unless they are their own. They would rather protect an elite white rich real estate investor from New York City than some poor kids trying to get help.

    #morallybankrupt

  194. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 7:30 am | Permalink

    The government will be allocating 1 billion dollars this year for detention of undocumented minors, most of that going to private contractors.

    Maybe that will move the hearts of our conservative commentators.

  195. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 7:31 am | Permalink

    IL– they care for fetuses, not children.
    They are obsessed with fetuses.

  196. Iron Lung
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 7:31 am | Permalink

    Privately run concentration camps.

  197. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 7:33 am | Permalink

    from a FB source I respect:

    A friend of mine with a great deal of professional experience with immigrant children and family reunification shared this important information and I am passing it along so that more of us can be informed. So much spin is applied to these complicated situations making us lay folks utterly lost as to what the right choices are…please read her words below.
    “I haven’t said much about the situation on the border. It’s triggering and complicated and sad and awful. This is important. You’re going to start hearing about it so I want you to know what it is.
    The next step of what’s happening with splitting families up on the border is that they are going to try to repeal the Flores Settlement as a solution to that problem.
    This (six hour old) video is a great example of how incredibly reasonable that sounds when spun properly. He tells a lot of truth and leads us to a false conclusion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBMQYcQW3tY
    But. Please read what the Flores Settlement is. What it does. The settlement calls on Federal authorities to treat “all minors with dignity, respect and special concern for their particular vulnerability as minors. The agreement establishes minimum standards for initial detention and a policy favoring release of minors. It also requires that children who remain in federal custody be placed in the least restrictive environment and mandates provision of information, treatment and services. – you can download the entire settlement here:
    https://www.aclu.org/…/flores-v-meese-stipulated-settlement…
    Flores essentially says that children in custody of the US Federal Government are children in custody of the government, regardless of legal status and so are entitled to essential basic rights. Before Flores kids could be kept in ICE detention centers, incarcerated with adults and no one working their cases indefinitely. There were not legal rights for them to be safe or to ensure timely release in a safe manner. The stories from before this lawsuit was brought are truly horrifying.
    Repealing the Flores Settlement would be the most dangerous outcome I can think of.
    Yes. Kids should not be ripped apart from their families. Obviously. And if you think I’m saying that, you are wrong. That needs to stop immediately. This is me saying we need to be careful about what we agree to in order to stop that practice. What it would mean to the rights of all Unaccompanied Minors.

    Repealing Flores also wouldn’t stop it, it’s just a convenient (manufactured?) time and way to overturn it.”

  198. Iron Lung
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 7:33 am | Permalink

    I’m sorry, am I being “immature?”

    Is it crazy to see this as inhumane and immoral and to be extremely concerned about the privatization of what, in essence, are concentration camps for brown kids given the poor record of private management of schools and prisons?

    I guess I am crazy.

  199. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 7:33 am | Permalink

    “Says the guy stoned at home in his underwear regurgitating propaganda from a politician.
    Who does that?”

    Why are you always fantasizing about me doing things in various states of undress? Gross.

  200. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 7:36 am | Permalink

    Mark– you could do an entire piece on how many Betsy DeVos supported agencies are being paid by the government to do this work.

    She is a vile human being.

  201. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 7:40 am | Permalink

    We all want to fuck you, HW.

    What ARE you wearing???

  202. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 7:41 am | Permalink

    Are you wearing underwear?

    Children are being tortured, and HW thinks this is about him.

  203. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 7:44 am | Permalink

    Jeez, I thought it was just you and Iron Derp. It’s every single one of you?

  204. Iron Lung
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    Newflash, most people on this website would, in fact, have a problem with concentration camps for brown kids.

  205. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 7:52 am | Permalink

    Most people, period.

  206. EOS
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 7:53 am | Permalink

    They broke the law to enter our country and are now complaining that the people caring for their children don’t speak their language?

    Our country is ill equipped to care for its current citizens. There’s no money to provide free health care for all, decent education, adequate housing. People need to gain the skills to provide for themselves, with a safety net for only those who truly can’t. The money taken from our paychecks to be set aside for retirement isn’t going to be there when we reach the age to draw Social Security (which could be 75 – 80 y/o soon). You can tax the wealthy at 100% of their incomes and it still would not be enough. If you expect that anyone coming from a country where the standard of living is lower, or criminal activity is rampant, should be welcomed and given a fast track to citizenship, then you need to expect that our standard of living and the criminal activity in our communities will soon match that of the places they come from. Then where will we go?

    Open borders means more terrorist attacks – who wants that? It makes no difference to me what color their skin is. Instead of large numbers of illiterate, low skilled workers, why not have an immigration plan that admits educated professionals who could contribute to our country, pay into the social security system, speak our language, and assimilate into our culture and raise healthy, educated children? Or are you so racist that you don’t think POC have these attributes?

  207. Iron Lung
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 7:53 am | Permalink

    “Most people, period.”

    The American right wingers must not be people.

  208. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 7:53 am | Permalink

    I would too.

  209. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 7:54 am | Permalink

    …have a problem with “concentration camps for brown kids.”

  210. Iron Lung
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 7:54 am | Permalink

    ” There’s no money to provide free health care for all, decent education, adequate housing.”

    lol

  211. wobblie
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 7:54 am | Permalink

    I take my medicine when ever I need it. Some times I’m in my underwear. Some times I’m dressed like an Eskimo. Never noticed whether my state of dress effected the efficacy of the medicine. Will have to pay attention and see.

    Trump is doing the same thing he did with his Muslim immigration ban. Start with extreme actions, back peddle and get what you always wanted because it does not seem so extreme. There is a lot of money to be made with contracting internment camps to private industry. Real opportunities for growth and profits for the “right” investors. Family internment will be more lucrative and have fewer down sides in the market. Don’t worry HW, we will lock up all those brown folks and DeVoss and Prince will get there piece of the pie. Ain”t Capitalism just great!

  212. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 7:59 am | Permalink

    Who decided immigration laws are null and void? What makes you think that is okay?

  213. EOS
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:02 am | Permalink

    Who is it that is keeping these kids in foster care facilities? Maybe the blame should go to the hordes of lawyers who drag out court cases for years where there is no legitimate reason to provide asylum. Why not allow the courts to make an equitable determination after a brief period of time and either release them in our country or send them back to where they come from? Why prolong their stay in inadequate facilities, if that’s what you think they are?

  214. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:06 am | Permalink

    “hordes of lawyers who drag out court cases for years where there is no legitimate reason to provide asylum.”

    This is getting in the way of processing legitimate asylum claims. Heard there is a backlog of 600,000 cases.

  215. Iron Lung
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:09 am | Permalink

    EOS cares nothing for kids, particularly when brown.

    She is more outraged that people are outraged than over the lives of brown kids.

    She is more outraged at potential terrorism than the very real problems of gun deaths in the US.

    The, like right wingers everywhere, advocates for gutting public services and reducing tax revenues, then makes some bizarre statement about having no money for services.

    lol

  216. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:10 am | Permalink

    Pro bono lawyers love to unnecessarily drag out court cases. EOS.

    In EOS world, the problem with separation of families and detention of children for a class D federal misdemeanor (equivalent to shoplifting at the Smithsonian gift shop or a first time DUI) is LAWYERS. Maybe the presses next. and then translators. Clearly, if there were no lawyers there… or press… or translators, we would not even be talking about this.

    It’s fascinating to watch your pro-life brain do the mental trigonometry necessary to condone this.

    So few Christians agree with you.
    You are definitely going to the precise hell you envision for others.

  217. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:12 am | Permalink

    So waycist.

  218. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:14 am | Permalink

    EOS is pro-life, a position which would bring millions more babies into this world, but doesn’t believe there is enough money to care for all these brown kids…

    Got it.

  219. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:17 am | Permalink

    Also it bears repeating that being in this country without proper documentation is a class D federal misdemeanor.

    These are not crimes normally requiring prolonged detention and being denied release on bond. It’s all an excuse to create internment camps to keep out brown people.

    Everything put forward by EOS, HW and FF so far has been lies and misdirection because their positions are unsupportable.

    Its actually rare that I think positions are unsupportable, but this is one of them.

  220. Iron Lung
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:19 am | Permalink

    “EOS is pro-life, a position which would bring millions more babies into this world, but doesn’t believe there is enough money to care for all these brown kids…”

    “How can we get rid of all those brown kids and avoid accusations of racial bias?”

  221. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:20 am | Permalink

    “Heard there is a backlog of 600,000 cases.” — HW. See my post earlier about this. Trump et al are intentionally overwhelming the system and not providing the necessary means to manage the caseload.

    A backlog of 600,000 asylum cases is not the fault of asylum seekers; It’s the responsibility of the federal government, you idiot.

  222. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:21 am | Permalink

    It’s clogged up by false claims. You are the idiot.

  223. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:21 am | Permalink

    They have plenty of money for contractors who want to build and run detention centers however….

    Interesting.

    Follow the money if you ever want to know someone’s true intentions.

  224. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:23 am | Permalink

    You don’t care about brown kids being trafficked by people who aren’t even their parents.

  225. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:23 am | Permalink

    HW Just keep telling yourself that despite all evidence to the contrary.

  226. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    Only 2,000 out of 12,000 were with their parents. Many, many were smuggled by traffickers I guarantee.

  227. Iron Lung
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    The Mr. 420 Kushlord knows all about every person who comes over the border, an all knowing sea god, surrounded by a rolling fog of cannabis sativa.

  228. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    See above. Already addressed this. The Betsy DeVos supported Bethany Christian Child Center head just said that in their years of experience working with undocumented and unaccompanied (or no longer accompanied) minors: “We’ve gone from 10-15% of the children being separated from a responsible family member to 90% of the children being separated from a primary care giver, usually a mother or father.

    http://michiganradio.org/post/trump-signs-executive-order-dozens-migrant-children-wait-michigan-foster-care

  229. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:29 am | Permalink

    If Mr Kushlord laid off the weed maybe he would absorb more of the information already shared here, so we wouldn’t have to repeat ourselves and make him look even more foolish in his certainty.

  230. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    Where’d you get that 12,000 number from Kushlord.

    Did you just make it up?

    Is that all asylum seekers?

    Please provide documentation for the source of that number. You have repeated in 3 times now.

  231. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    Jeez, you are dumb, Jean Henry. I use your own information against you every day.

    “The organization has 99 foster home beds across the country. Abbott said these beds are almost entirely occupied, and ninety percent of them are filled by children who were separated BY parents at the border.”

    They get a kick in the ass and a ‘good luck, kid” from their own parents before they are abandoned in a foreign country.

  232. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    Maybe IL can add to his parody the endless repeating of false data.
    Just say a number three times and click your heels and… someone thinks it’s true.

  233. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:34 am | Permalink

    HW– you misinterpreted. Listen to the interview…

  234. Iron Lung
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:34 am | Permalink

    “We’ve gone from 10-15% of the children being separated from a responsible family member to 90% of the children being separated from a primary care giver, usually a mother or father.”

    The Mr. 420 Siberian Kushinator is to stoned to read, EOS couldn’t afford school because all her money got taken away by black people through the EBT program.

  235. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    “Where’d you get that 12,000 number from?”

    What are you talking about? It’s in official statements by the DHS. Everyone knows this but you.

  236. Iron Lung
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    “HW– you misinterpreted. ”

    Phuuuuuuuck so haaaaai woah skulljesterbong 420kushICPdankbud

  237. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    Only one in six of the children even came with their parents. The loophole that you support props up child trafficking. You support child trafficking.

  238. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    Now, Abbott said the majority of children in Bethany’s care are children separated from a parent upon entering the U.S.

    The organization has 99 foster home beds across the country. Abbott said these beds are almost entirely occupied, and ninety percent of them are filled BY children who were separated by parents at the border. ”

    Your ability to be selective in your reading is impressive. My quote was from the radio interview itself, not the written summary story which had a typo. You managed to find that one word, contradicted by the sentence before hand, and then you isolated it and spun out a false narrative.

    A narrative that dehumanizes brown people.

    It’s good to see your mental gymnastics in their granular detail.

  239. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:41 am | Permalink

    Logic is what HW calls it.

  240. Iron Lung
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    So…. just fuck that one kid out of six?

    Even with the crazy 420 logic, ignoring one kid out of six is pretty troubling.

    #morallybankrupt #racist #soooohaaaaai

  241. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:47 am | Permalink

    The one in six have parents who brought them in illegally. Why should the parents not be subject to US law? They are released by the loophole and most don’t return for processing.

  242. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:47 am | Permalink

    Does HW imagine that most unaccompanied minors are 3 year olds toddling across the border?

    I am sure that many teenagers cross alone. This has been standard in immigration since Ellis island. Its a completely separate issue. I would love to see sensible immigration reform in this country, but our government has been unable to accomplish that. Meanwhile, we still have to treat those who come here seeking asylum, legitimately or not, with basic human dignity. No one is denying the system is fucked up. HEre’s how you dont fix it– by insisting on compliance with laws that are self-cpntradcitory and punishing violations excessively and at GREAT cost.

  243. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    HW–it;s a federal class d misdemeanor. Your pot smoking is a class A federal misdemeanor.

    Would you like DSS to come seize your child and not provide you with any way to find them?

    We’ll send them right over.

  244. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    “Why should the parents not be subject to US law? “

  245. Iron Lung
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:53 am | Permalink

    “HW–it;s a federal class d misdemeanor. Your pot smoking is a class A federal misdemeanor.

    Would you like DSS to come seize your child and not provide you with any way to find them?”

    lol

  246. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:55 am | Permalink

    Some come independently but many are smuggled. If you can’t grapple with that reality you are not being honest. I know that is natural for you so I don’t expect you to come around until you are forced to by confirmation in the news. At least 128 of the cases right now are people pretending to be families but aren’t. Imagine being a small child and used as a pawn like that. It’s terrifying to think of what happens to them.

  247. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    Thanks IL. Kind of pleased with that one.
    Now I have to work.

    I’m so upset about this stuff that it seems I have to slay a Kushlord before being able to focus on work.

  248. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:57 am | Permalink

    HW– your empathy is truly touching.

    It must be hard to FEEL so hard.

  249. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:59 am | Permalink

    “HW–it;s a federal class d misdemeanor. Your pot smoking is a class A federal misdemeanor.
    Would you like DSS to come seize your child and not provide you with any way to find them?
    We’ll send them right over.”

    I’ve never heard of a federal charge for smoking. Federal laws don’t kick in until you have a certain amount of bud or a number of plants.

    They are also subject to deportation, are they not? Not under the loophole though.

  250. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 9:01 am | Permalink

    You aren’t slaying shit. You live in a SJW fantasy world. I love fantasy fiction but I love the truth even more.

  251. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    “What Amount of Marijuana Do I Have to Carry to Violate Federal Law?

    While federal authorities typically focus on high volume distributors, there are sentencing guidelines for possessing even the smallest amounts of marijuana. They include:

    First offense: a misdemeanor involving up to a year of incarceration and a $1,000 fine,
    Second offense: a misdemeanor involving a mandatory minimum of 15 days (and up to two years) of incarceration and a $2,500 fine, and
    Third offense or more: a misdemeanor or felony involving a mandatory minimum of 90 days (and up to three years) of incarceration and a $5,000 fine.
    Mandatory minimum sentencing is a controversial part of federal law. If an offense involves a mandatory minimum, the judge is required to impose at least the minimum sentence—and cannot take extenuating circumstances into account or offer alternative sentencing options. Additionally, you typically are ineligible for parole before you complete the mandatory minimum sentence.”

  252. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    Possession is in fact a federal misdemeanor. It’s on the books that way, but they dont prosecute. Or t least they didn’t until Sessions showed up and now they do so in ‘special cases’ by which I mean mostly for Black and Brown people or for anyone with a bunch of cash the local police would like to seize…

    They used to handle undocumented immigrants the same way. There was a law on the books that they chose not to enforce.

    Now they are enforcing it.

    And with that precedent, someday maybe they will enforce the federal pot laws as well.

    At any rate you are no better than the immigrants you so deride under the letter of federal law.

  253. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    How would you even get busted by federal authorities for smoking? I’ve never heard of it happening. If there are any cases then okay but so what? That’s a terrible law. Hopefully soon it will be gone. We need to have laws against trying to sneak in to the USA. They need to go through the process.

  254. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 9:13 am | Permalink

    Waah! Can’t have my woophole! So waycist!

  255. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    So is Ypsi still a sanctuary city or was that just talk? I don’t think Amanda wants any of Jeff Sessions hahahaha!

  256. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    Asylum seekers have every right to come here HW. That’s the law. Most are not coming here just for work (although we need them here for that too); Their lives are in imminent danger if they return. Many of them are coming from Honduras, El Salvador, and Guatemala — all countries where the United States played a strong role in creating the decades of violence that they are fleeing — our moral role to take in asylum-seekers goes deep. We’re not taking on the world’s burdens, so much as sharing the burden for the issues we created.

    It seems you are selective in the severity of your application of law and order. Like the government, you prefer to use the law to come down hardest on black and brown people. Noted.

  257. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    Also noted the role that illegal drug trade has in creating these unsafe conditions. That illegal drug trade exists because of the intense demand created by US recreational drug users like yourself, HW.

  258. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    Why do you think we go so hard after undocumented immigrants and not their employers stateside???

  259. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    They have to go through a “port of entry”. Have you not heard that?

  260. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 9:26 am | Permalink

    You don’t know what you are talking about. I haven’t bought any imported bud in decades. I never use drugs. I don’t consider entheogens drugs.

  261. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 9:29 am | Permalink

    I haven’t even seen any Mexican weed or heard of any since about 2000.

  262. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    “Why do you think we go so hard after undocumented immigrants and not their employers stateside???”

    I think it should be illegal to employ illegal immigrants. That should be part of this effort too; to change the law or just enforce existing laws.

  263. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    HW– please note I said ‘demand’ for drugs in the US. And yes, you are part of that.

    PS weed is a drug.

  264. wobblie
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 9:54 am | Permalink

    HW, according to research reported by High Times there were 11,533 federal cannabis prisoners in 2012. They were serving prison sentences on average, about seven years (88 months), with the most common sentence being five years (60 months). In terms of race, 59 percent were Hispanic, 24 percent were white and 13.9 percent were Black.

    https://hightimes.com/culture/federal-cannabis-prisoners/

    For some one who braggs about how smart you are…took me less than a minute to find out these facts.

    So as JH points out you are no different than an illegal immigrant, and no doubt if they get away with these racist immigration policy, Sessions will bring the drug war back to Michigan. Got to keep feeding the private prison industry–Lots of money to be made, can’t have too many prisoners.

  265. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 10:19 am | Permalink

    Yeah for having 100+ plants or moving large amounts for the most part. How many were for smoking?

  266. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 10:23 am | Permalink

    Oops. Anyway in answer to your question I would hate to be separated from my child by the law for Cannabis. That is a bad result that does happen because of bad laws. People should just be deported immediately unless they come through a port of entry. That would solve it.

  267. Iron Lung
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 10:47 am | Permalink

    lol

    .

  268. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 10:48 am | Permalink

    derp

  269. Iron Lung
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    Everything is so simple to the Mr. HW 420 Kushlord, no need to worry about human consequences or how to pay for anything.

    It’s like the Siberion Bonglord is a Sanderite.

  270. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    HW WAS a Bernie Supporter!

    I remember because I kept saying the populist messages were becoming very very similar. And everyone said I was nuts. But I have Trump and Sanders supporters on my am feed and they were saying the same things. Then HW showed up in all his dank meme bro-ness.

    HW was one of the few who noticed I guess. Credit to him. He wants to burn it all down.

    Except at the borders. Like Bernie. Protectionism is racist too, kids.

  271. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 11:15 am | Permalink

    ‘That is a bad result that [could happen] because of bad laws. People should just be deported immediately if they [use weed without a Documented condition and a Doctor’s prescription]. That would solve it.’

  272. Wobblie
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

    Il and JH go back and listen to your hero Hillary calling for the deportation of s children back in 2014. And of course every liberals hero Obama was called see porter in chief for a reason. But remember under all conditions try to be decisive and bash the left when ever you can. Love me love me a liberal.

  273. Iron Lung
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 1:26 pm | Permalink

    Hillary Clinton was not my hero. I don’t know what you are talking about.

    I had real problems with the Obama admin’s immigration policy and was under no illusions the a Clinton admin would be any different.

  274. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

    But there is no good reason to deport smokers. Deporting people who try to sneak in or defraud immigration is inherently reasonable.

  275. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 1:29 pm | Permalink

    “HW WAS a Bernie Supporter!
    I remember because I kept saying the populist messages were becoming very very similar. And everyone said I was nuts. But I have Trump and Sanders supporters on my am feed and they were saying the same things. Then HW showed up in all his dank meme bro-ness.
    HW was one of the few who noticed I guess. Credit to him. He wants to burn it all down.
    Except at the borders. Like Bernie. Protectionism is racist too, kids.”

    Spitting my shake out! A Bernie supporter? How do you figure?!

  276. Wobblie
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

    My apologies I’ll. You and jean do such a tag team dance on the left I sometimes forget the nuances of your position.

  277. Iron Lung
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

    No problem. Thanks.

    Given that I am sympathetic to overall leftist goals, I tend to be hypercritical of leftist politics in practice, which makes me come across as critical of leftist goals overall.

    And, in general, a criticism of one thing does not imply an endorsement of another.

  278. Jim Acosta by Proxi
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

    FLOTUS spox confirms Mrs. Trump wore a jacket to visit border kids that reads: “I really don’t care. Do you?” Spox says: “It’s a jacket. There was no hidden message. After today’s important visit to Texas, I hope the media isn’t going to choose to focus on her wardrobe.”

  279. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    I was too very happy to criticize HRC and Obama on any number of their statements and policy positions.
    You seem to be confusing me for being like most Bernie supporters who could bear no critique of their candidate without lashing out.

    ‘A criticism of one thing does not imply endorsement of another.’ — this.

    So if I spent a lot of time criticizing Bernie and especially sexism in the 2016 Presidential race, that doesn’t mean my support for HRC was unconditional.

    I just thought most Bernie supporters were acting like assholes in the primary. Many of them came to see that in the general, especially female Bernie voters.

    HW I thought it was you who flipped from Bernie to Trump. Someone did. Apologies if I got it wrong.

  280. Iron lung
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

    I dislike mayonnaise but that does not imply that i like ketchup or yellow mustard. I might hate condiments overall but might tolerate dijon if it appears on my sandwich if forced to.

  281. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    Wobblie– I think if you pay attention, you will see I bash all sides with zest. Many people who hate each other are unified in finding me annoying as hell. A thorn in the side. Proudly so. I reserve a spacial vigor for white liberals as I am one. Keeps me honest.

    It’s hard I’m sure for someone as ideologically bound as yourself to imagine being consistently critical of the side with whom you have greatest affinity. It’s the liberal way.

    The Ochs song is great, but it sounds like my old neighbors in a2 more than me.

    We just want different kinds of revolution.

  282. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

    “HW I thought it was you who flipped from Bernie to Trump. Someone did. Apologies if I got it wrong.”

    Need to pay attention; related to chronic projection.

  283. wobblie
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

    JH, you have expressed support for fracking, nuclear power , and a “robust foreign policy”. And felt it necessary in a discussion thread that was attempting to mobilize folks to fight our governments immigration policy, to take a swipe at those to your left. I don’t want any part of your revolution. You are welcome to join ours.

  284. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think there was ever anyone here who went from Bernie to Trump. It was just another one of those wacky things Jean Henry started saying about me that I didn’t even bother to respond to. Yeah, I’m a “Bernie Bro” (dumb sexist anti-male term) cuz I mentioned Bernie Sanders and how Hillary screwed him once or twice…

  285. Iron lung
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:36 pm | Permalink

    EOS is a holocaust denier.

    Let it sink in.

  286. Iron lung
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

    I wonder how many people the 420 Siberian Kushlord thinks died in the Holocaust?

  287. Iron lung
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 9:29 pm | Permalink

    “How can we build gas chambers and avoid accusations of racial bias?”

    The 1938 version of EOS

  288. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

    Wobblie— it doesn’t disappoint me in the least that I didn’t pass your purity test.

    You are so far left, you’re right.

    In times of crisis, we need vigilance and critique of all perspectives and solutions more than ever.

  289. Jean Henry
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 9:43 pm | Permalink

    Hw— I actually did take some time to find where you said you voted for Bernie in the primary. I thought for sure you did. But in fact you just said the Hillary screwed Bernie several times and that you liked Bernie and might have voted for him in the general.

    So my bad on that.

    There are people out there who voted Bernie in the primary and Trump innthe general. But they are more likely to be people from my hometown or places outside of so much liberal influence.

    It makes more sense that you have been shilling for Trump all along. You are very committed.

  290. Jcp2
    Posted June 21, 2018 at 9:46 pm | Permalink

    I think Librarian Borelord is too shrill to be a bro. Although redpillers and bros can share certain world views, bros are alphas who try to always get their way, while redpillers just talk about why they can’t get their way.

  291. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 22, 2018 at 6:42 am | Permalink

    How come it’s going my way then, Jay See Pee Too? Anti-Trump people like you are getting washed up.

  292. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 22, 2018 at 6:45 am | Permalink

    Look at allll the false claims, all that hand-wringing and gnashing of teeth that has turned out to be nothing just like I said all along. If we were keeping score I’d be way ahead.

  293. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 22, 2018 at 7:12 am | Permalink

    “you have been shilling for Trump all along”

    You must not know what a shill is. It’s not like I am getting paid to act enthusiastic. I took a chance without 100% confidence and so far it has turned out GREAT.

  294. Jean Henry
    Posted June 23, 2018 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/the-chaotic-effort-to-reunite-immigrant-parents-with-their-separated-kids/2018/06/21/325cceb2-7563-11e8-bda1-18e53a448a14_story.html?utm_term=.ad08194654db

  295. Jean Henry
    Posted June 23, 2018 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

    More Masha Gessen for HW. He’s going to love this one.

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/trumps-opponents-arent-arguing-for-open-bordersbut-maybe-they-should

    “Outside the political mainstream, activists and academics have questioned the certainty that borders must be protected, or that those who live within the borders are automatically entitled to enforce them. In a recent academic collection, Kieran Oberman, a political theorist at the University of Edinburgh, makes the case for a human right to immigration. He argues that the right to enter a country and spend any amount of time there—though not necessarily the right to obtain citizenship—flows naturally from universally declared human rights to freedom of movement, freedom of association, and freedom of occupational choice. In an interconnected world, it is often necessary to cross borders for personal, professional, and political reasons. The last is the most interesting part of Oberman’s argument: the right to meaningfully participate in politics—to exercise the human right to freedom of assembly—increasingly requires individual action, and movement, across borders.

    Sarah Fine, a political philosopher at King’s College, in London, who is working on a book on the “right to exclude,” or the right of states to keep people out, has raised another provocative argument. If democracy is a system that guarantees the right of the governed to participate in the governing process, then democracy confined to protected national borders contains an internal contradiction. Those who are banned from entering a country are, in effect, governed—the Central American mother at the border whose child is ripped away from her by U.S. Border Patrol agents is being governed in the extreme—yet they have no say in the rules, or in the election of those who make them.”

  296. iRobert
    Posted July 13, 2018 at 5:58 am | Permalink

    Another commenter probably already mentioned this, but apparently detaining these children has become a billion-dollar-per-year industry. That’s going to make it difficult to change.

    It’s essentially a legalized business which benefits financially from the trafficking of children. That would motivate this industry to maximize the number of people bringing children to the border and attempting to cross it.

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  1. […] and this is what I find so interesting… the same folks on the right have began arguing that Trump’s “zero tolerance” policy toward immigration, which dictated that children be removed from their parents at the border and held separately, was […]

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