OK, I got an email from another zine publisher a few days ago, a person who I’d never met or heard of, and he asked me if it was true that I did business with Desert Moon Periodicals. I told him that, yes, I distributed Crimewave USA through Desert Moon and that I’d never had a problem with them… You see, I was assuming that he was thinking of distributing through them, and just wanted a reference… Well, when this person wrote back, he asked if I was “planning to take legal action” against them… And that, my invisible friends, is when my world started to go black.
It turns out that Desert Moon hasn’t been paying anyone for quite some time.
So, I started leaving voicemails for Jolene, the woman there who I usually deal with. Well, today, after having left a few messages for Jolene, I decided to try the other side of the company, the side that deals not with publishers, but with retail stores who buy the magazines. Not surprisingly, I got someone right away, a guy who introduced himself as JR. After telling him quickly who I was, and what I was calling about, he said he’d never heard of my magazine (that they’ve been carrying for over half a dozen years now). When I repeated the name of the magazine and reminded him that we’d been doing business for years, he then asked if I was “speaking English.” (Which, I have to admit, was a really funny way for him to divert my line of questioning.) Then, after I got all defensive and said, “Yes, sir, I am an American,” he slammed down the phone in my ear. He may have also said, “Don’t fucking call here again,” but I can’t swear to it. (There was some profanity, but I can’t remember for certain what it was.)
So, I haven’t done the math yet, but, given the terms of our contract, they owe us about $2,500 (minus any returns) for the last issue (and they may still owe some on earlier issues). And that’s not the worst part. The worst part is — that was the money we were planning to print Crimewave #16, the issue we’re presently working on, with. So, tonight I will be writing a letter to the Better Business Bureau and emailing all the independent stores that bought the magazine through Desert Moon, telling them what the situation is. And, tomorrow, I will be calling Borders, their largest client, and talking with them. (It’s about six years old, but I have a list of at least fifty stores that were carrying our magazine though DM, and I assume that most still are.) After this, I’m not sure what to do. I guess I can either file a lawsuit in New Mexico, or retain a collections agent, neither of which are things that I have experience with.
If you live in New Mexico and you’d like to pay JR a friendly visit, let me know… Or, here’s a better idea. What if you just call his 800-number and ask him to pay his debts. (1-800-547-0182 ext.2)
(If you do call and ask JR why he isn’t paying us, leave a comment and let me know.)
And, lastly, if you’re a subscriber of Crimewave, I apologize, as this might mean an even longer delay than usual.
And, in case you were wondering, that’s what the last nail in the coffin of the small press sounds like, folks.
55 Comments
I’m sorry to learn of your troubles. Please don’t give up. Stick with it–that’s how I got to the top. Maybe you could hold a Crimewave fundraising marathon or party.
As for getting your money, I would be willing to go to New Mexico during my mid-winter break and rough some people up–or at least throw rotten tomatoes on them.
I suppose I can’t make you feel any better. I just don’t want to see your dream die. You have many friends, and we will help.
Thanks, DG. That’s nice of you to say. I’m not looking for any charity though. I just want what they owe me. I gave them a product in good faith and they sold it. They collected money that belongs to me, and now they need to pay me…. While I’m not looking for handouts, however, I wouldn’t mind some free advice from an attorney (or collections goon) in the audience…
I just had an idea… My mom works for an attorney. Maybe I’ll just have her send me some blank letterhead.
That’s fucking monsterous of them. It is one thing for something to happen, and maybe you can’t cover your expenses. It is another thing to not tell your clients, and curse at them when they ask about it.
‘Cocksucker’ isn’t nearly harsh enough, really. Cocksuckers do some fine work in this world of ours. I find ‘pigfucker’ gives the correct connotation.
This isn’t the first time that a company hasn’t paid us. It’s happened twice before. The first time was with See Hear, a zine store in New York. The guy who ran the place, Ted, didn’t seem like a bad guy, just an inept businessman. He
This is so upsetting. It is like someone is fucking with family. I wonder if anyone in the industry has any information on wtf happened. Crack, alimony, post election bizarre behavior? Have they paid you before? What can we, as your faithful readers do? Also, I am sorry that I posted God is dead. AND, I logged on to find out information on my family’s imminent trip to Disney World (hubby has a conference) but instead I am linking to the John Collin sight and reading to see what kind of motorcycle he was picking up his victim’s on.
Mark, I’m glad you still love me…
When I had to declare bankruptcy and close the old version of Atomic down I honestly don’t remember who I told or not, it was a total blur. But I was supposed to send some sort of declaration of bankruptcy.
I do remember JR from Desert Moon, he was the accounts payable guy or something so he would call me every so often looking for money. If they aren’t paying the publishers it’s an obvious sign that they are going belly up.
This world sucks, I’m back in the unemployment line again myself…
scott
It’s just a really tough business, and there’s little respect in it for anyone. Obviously, JR was under a lot of pressure before you found him. And obviously, he doesn’t handle pressure well. Also, I’m guessing you’ll need to talk with someone higher up, although it’s probably part of JR’s job to keep you away from anyone higher up.
Personally, while I suggest you do all you can legally to collect, I don’t think there’d be any disgrace in holding some version of a rent party for the next issue. Our community center recently held a swing dance fundraiser, and other events (including donation requests), to buy the building from the landlord. It was fun (nutty dancing partner notwithstanding), goal was exceeded and now we have wholesome dance classes to keep us off the streets.
I’ll try to think of something else, besides.
Don’t let the bastards wear ya down,
C
Rather than begging for cash, how about setting aside a page in the next issue that lists everyone who puts fourth some funds to get the next issue off the ground? You have a few back issues, correct? What would you think of setting up a donation’s package of a “classic” Crimewave USA back issue and an original drawing for donations over “X” amount? And on the set aside page list everyone who donates at any amount at 8 pt. type, then at “X” amount the name gets a 2 pt. size increase, and perhaps an addition 2 pt. increase per $5 or so over “X” amount.
For example if X = $20 and someone donates $50 to getting Crimewave going, their name would be printed at ($20 = 10 pts. and $30 over = 12 additional pts.) 22 pts.
Just a thought.
As for this JR character… “Are you speaking English?” What?! “Yes I’m speaking English, fucker! If you want me to switch to a lead pipe dialect just keep it up!”
From their site* I learned that the guy you spoke to is J.R. Fesperman, their ‘Retail Account Executive’ (email: jr@dmoon.com). According to their Publisher Pages** he is also their “Manager of Publisher Relations.”
If you feel the need to talk to him again and he feigns ignorance just point him to his own search page*** and have him look under ‘C’ and it will take him to you.****
Oh yeah, and according to the Publisher Pages: “Please address any questions concerning payments for issues we have distributed to J.R. Fesperman by telephone at (800) 547-0182 , by email or by fax to (505) 474-6317” So he IS the person you needed to speak to.
But from the looks of this list (http://dmoon.com/cgi-bin/zinesnew.cgi), if he is going under you are in a long list of people who are going to be pissed.
This sucks. Any idea who you would go with in the place of Desert Moon for the next issue?
—
*http://www.dmoon.com/retailer/index.html
**http://www.dmoon.com/publisher/index.html
***http://www.dmoon.com/search.html
****http://www.dmoon.com/cgi-bin/zinesnew.cgi?_recordnum=123
OR! A fundraiser auction DUDE! I wouold pay top dollar for the last issue of Crimewave, a friend passed my copy on to a Producer for Ira Glasshole’s show and I never got it back. But what about Mark and Linete’s art. Photos from trips like that scary hotel in a way back issue (5+years) where you found trucker porn and pube’s in the bed. The first issue…SIGNED! Outright crazy shit like Ypsi flotsam from your front yard. Lifesize John Ritter. Have you rubbed your moneymaker, do you need a new moneymaker? I think readers would come out in droves for a Crimewave auction. You could do it at that bar you and all the Ypsi bloggers meet at with call-in phone lines like in the movies. OR it could be a cooperative paper but it would be only a matter of time before people would be bitching at the required work time and how there is a power heirarchy. Anyway, short of stealing JRs hubcaps or forcing him to sell his sperm…what can we do?
Why not just ask JR to pay us in sperm?
Fucking Scott Huffines – in the mother fucking house!
Shit, Scott, I had no idea that you visited my site. It’s been years since we last talked. It’s so cool to know you’re out there… even if you are one of the “pig fucking” douche bags who robbed me blind.
For those of you who don’t know, Scott’s not just the man wo created Atomic Books, one of the best stores in the world, but he also (I think) played a dead body on the TV show Homicide once, and was an extra in the “tea-bagging” scene from the John Waters’ film “Pecker.” (He also appeared in Crimewave once, sitting on a toilet.)
I can’t believe that we had Larry Storch and Scott Huffines drop by MM.com in the same week. My ego is swelling like one of Kirstie Alley’s ankles.
I
What is it with small magazine distributers? Didn’t Fine Print do the same thing to people?
We get our mags for my store from Dessert Moon and One Source from Colorado. Have you heard of them? We deal with JR from a customer end sometimes at DM. I’ll try and ask him about your dough. (I wonder if they have been reimbursing us for returned magazines lately.)
Sorry Mark. This really sucks. Maybe they will get you your money or at least some of it.
It’s not really a handout if the person giving the money gets something in return, and it’s not like we would be giving you the money to buy beer. It would be used to keep Crimewave going. BUT here’s a thought for you. What about doing the magazine in a PDF format and offering it for download through lulu.com (the place I was considering and that Kif switched her book to)? It would save a huge amount in printing costs and you wouldn’t have to sell advertising unless you wanted to.
If Linette is assembling the magazine in quark it’s not too difficult to make a PDF from there. I haven’t looked at lulu.com deep enough to know for certain which file formats they allow, but I’m sure there shouldn’t be a problem with it.
Mark, I have a friend in ABQ, NM and he’s 6’6″. Want him to go by and intimida..um, talk to J.R.? I think he might even have some equally imposing friends. Just ask.
Good luck!
Kathleen,
Happy New Year! It is good to hear you, your well wishes for my brother (rip cord eye) were so sweet. About the 6’6″ is he available for se…um, other services?
Hey…here’s an idea pimpin’ for crimewave!
The six feet is free, but the six inches is going to cost you.
I’m joining the conversation late, but I just wanted to add that ‘Desert Moon’ was a song by Dennis DeYoung.
Thank You.
Our friend Carrie McLaren, the publisher of Stay Free magazine, is apparently going though the same thing with JR. She
Chris – If you’re a cute female, I’d say, probably. ;-)
Hey Mark!
Indeed, a friend of my was just telling me that Desert Moon is into him for about $5000 in invoices. Allegedly, this JR guy bought the company in September, and my friend is supposed to collect from the OLD OWNER. Fat chance!
Does anyone know the former owner’s name before JR? [i.e. former owner of Desert Moon Peridocials]
It appears as if he did the same exact thing to my magazine – Alternative Cinema Magazine – and I am in the process of preparing legal papers and filing suit in New Mexico as I am the Mag’s General Counsel and simply will not tolerate JR’s behavior. Thanks.
Hey I think I’m the guy that originally contacted you about Desert Moon. Since hearing from you I’ve been in contact with about 30 other publishers that have all been treated the same way by JR. I’ve filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau of New Mexico, but I haven’t heard anything from them. When (or if) I do I’ll let you know what they say.
Also, I’m looking at taking legal action against Desert Moon in small claims court. Again I’ll let you know how that goes.
As for the previous owner of Desert Moon, his name is Mike Warren. I had a phone number for him, but I could never get anyone to answer.
I don’t know if this will help you any but BigTop Newsstand Services might be able help you with distribution. I haven’t used them, only heard about ’em. Here’s a link to their site. http://www.indypress.org/programs/bigtop.html
If you, or anyone reading this, learns of anything that might help with collecting payment from Desert Moon I’d appreciate it if you’d share it with me. My e-mail is flesh_on_bone@yahoo.com
Hope everything works out.
WEE
I talked with Ingram Periodicals and sent them a few copies. They just sent a contract. Right now, we’re thinking it over. They charge an annual fee, plus a per-issue fee, but they have pretty good coverage. So, we’re debating it… If we decide to go that route, we’ve got to take the magazine more seriously. (For instance, we’d have to do more than one issue a year.)
As for what we’re doing about Desert Moon , I’m working with an attorney this weekend to send a letter. I’ve done the numbers, and it looks as though JR owes us at least $3,600… Assuming he doesn’t respond to the letter, I guess I’ll have to decide how to proceed. I could do small claims court, like you, but I don’t know that I want to add the amount of a trip to New Mexico to the money I’ve already lost… I’ll keep you posted.
And let me know how your case goes. If you get paid in small claims court, I’ll definitely fly out and give it a shot. If nothing else, it would be something I could write about in our next issue.
The Found people reported to me recently that they got him to pay up a bit with some slick trickery involving carrots and sticks. But they should sue as well for the amount still owed.
It is really frustrating when crap like this happens. For example, I got a subscription to this independent magazine this year…I received my first issue…then they flaked out and never produced another. Seems like they should have to refund my money if they aren’t really going to produce.
Oh wait…I’m talking about crimewave.
Waiting impatiently,
Brian
I know you’re kidding, Brian, at least I think you are, but you can be sure that if we decide not to publish again that we’ll return the balance of the money that our subscribers have entrusted us with, even if it means me working another job. It may take a while, but you’ll be paid back… As for the case against Desert Moon, I’ll keep you posted. It’s encouraging to hear that the guys at Found got something out of them, but I imagine that they have a bit more clout than an underappreciated, little title like Crimewave.
Hey Mark!
STAY AWAY FROM INGRAM!
They’re incompetent. Their goal is to make $$$ off the publisher through rehipping/restocking fees, NOT sell your magazine!
You might even owing Ingram money!
Also, STAY AWAY from Media Solutions.
Ubiquity in Brooklyn may not sell a LOT of mags, but he’s alsways been honest, and pays on time to the day.
Big Top has an excellent reputation, actually…
The name of Desert Moon’s former owner is Mike Warren. Supposedly, the guy to contact about past due Desert Moon invoices is:
RMS Payroll, Inc.
Richard Rivera 924 Park Ave., SW Penthouse #6
Albuquerque NM 87102
505-242-2245
rrivera@rmspayrollinc.com
A trip to New Mexico won’t be required…only a lawyer (or collections agent) that’s licensed to practice in that state.
I intend to get attorneys involved shortly, and may even push for a class action suit, just on principle.
We’ve been burned by Desert Moon as well, “only” to the tune of about $1500. As as the experience of most, they don’t respond to phone calls or e-mails, nor have they answered a letter from our attorney. If anyone is seriously considering teaming up to bring our collective weight to bear on these guys, I’m happy to join.
Cheers;
pete gershon
publisher
SIGNAL to NOISE
http://www.signaltonoisemagazine.org
When I actually sat down and did the math, it came to over $3,600 that they owed us (assuming 100% sell-through for our past two issues, which I realize is a bit optimistic). The letter from the attorney went out of Monday. Now, we’ll just have to wait and see. Assuming they don’t respond, I’d be interested in discussing alternatives. So, keep me in mind if you try something.
I intend to do some research into this, and will keep you informed periodically. My understanding is that an attorney should be able to put a freeze on Warren’s bank account.
I’ve just heard that DM is filing for bankruptcy. Looks like everyone is SOL.
You can get some current info on the alt.zines web board (via Google, if no other way).
Bob
Hey.
Just tried speaking with Mark briefly, but his phone was breaking up, so that ended that. Desert Moon owes my publication, Copper Press, 12 grand and some change. I knew it was a lot but holy shit! And now we’re SOL. I don’t hold JR responsible, because he didn’t own the company. Evidently, he bought Desert Moon from the guy that bankrupted it. We’ll see what happens. Anyway, i just wanted to commiserate. $12k. Sheesh!
Steve
Looks like we at MOIST have joined the ‘happy’ gang. The paperwork arrived in the mail today.
JR has always been civil when I’ve talked to him, hard-to-get-a-hold-of and sounding harried and put upon, but civil. Here’s the kicker, I was talking to him earlier THIS week and told him I was heading to Santa Fe next week, in part, to connect with him. He recommended a good, inexpensive motel (guess I’ll need it now!) and was cordial as hell. Anyone have anything they want me to say to JR (assuming I can reach him) when I’m there?
Scanned the legal mumbo jumbo and need to look at it more closely. But one thought did occur to me. I think something similiar to this was suggested somewhere in the many responses in this thread. But times have changed. It’s not like the old days when small, independent publishers were scattered and disconnected from each other. We can communicate easily now – just look at us! Maybe we have an opportunity here to harnass the power of the Internet. The letter I received lists all the publishers who’ve been burned. Maybe if we take collective action something can be done about this and maybe not. Maybe it’s naive to think so – but we can, at least, talk about it and explore our options. Any other thoughts on this?
best,
Liam
I need to read over the documents that I just received in the mail and run them by an attorney friend of mine… Maybe, in the meantime, we could set up a little blog on which us publishers could talk about the state of current distribution in general, and the case of Desert Moon in particular. It wouldn’t be too difficult to set something up.
A blog would be an excellent idea. Confess ignorance in that department. Anyone know how to set up – or has this been done?
I’m rethinking my trip to Santa Fe – not much point in going down to be stonewalled.
Liam
Some thoughts:
I’m going the legal route. If these guys don’t get Warren to pay up, then it’s not possible. I’ll letcha know what happens in a about a month.
Regarding JR: Sure he’s stressed, inaccessible, and forgets the name of my zine, but if he ends up paying on time with a decent sell through, he’s be a champ. Hahaha….we’ll see. I’m pessimistically optimistic.
Being pessimistically optimistic is a wise course.
But ya know while it’s all well & fine to talk about how Jr may be “end up paying on time with a decent sell through, he’s be a champ” – doesn’t all this strike you as sleight-of-hand? Warren of ‘Invisible Inc’ – there’s a suspicious name for ya – sells the Co to Jr and Jr doesn’t have to pay what Warren owes – in addition to Warren not paying anyone by liquidating – all this sounds to me just a little too convenient for both of ’em. Truthfully, at this point, I’d be hardpressed to trust either of these bastards.
I’m editor of a women’s spirituality magazine, The Beltane Papers. We’ve had problems with Desert Moon for years, having to call and call and call in order to get paid. I’ve been advised by other staff to cut our losses and quit dealing with them, but since they were our largest distributor– after they got the Borders account– I never felt we could afford to leave because I didn’t think we’d get paid for the previous issue. But then JR made contact with me and we communicated by email and phone for at least a couple of years. I feel mostly personally betrayed because our chats seemed friendly and personal; we traded anecdotes about our lives. And he knew that when DM didn’t come up with a payment a couple of times last year, I made up the difference from my small inheritance money. So it’s not just that our magazine is out about $10,000, that money mostly came out of my account, which is now empty. We talked about his son, an accident he had which he and his son bonded over, I was going to mail him some homemade bread (but I misplaced his home address). I have emails from him promising to send a check, more than once. It was those promises and one check for $1000 that kept me hoping he would make a difference in the company. Previous owner bad, JR good was how it went.
The SageWoman publisher stopped doing business with them about a year ago. If she and I had been in regular communication I would have already known that Desert Moon and JR were misrepresenting themselves. We don’t have the money to pay a lawyer, of course. I don’t know that we can get any of the money back. He did refer me to that other person and I phoned twice and left messages that weren’t, to this day, returned.
Maybe there needs to be a central site where all small/alternative publications can check in from time to time with comments about various things like this?
Silver Surfer, I understand your thoughts about JR not being trustworthy…and yes, if he doesn’t honor the “new company’s” payment schedule, it could possibly be considered fraud.
Does anyone have additional info on Warren’s company? I’ve been doing searches trying to get info on him declaring bankruptcy, but have found nothing yet…
As I see this thread is still active, I wanted to bring everyone’s attention to the web site I set up to boycott Desert Moon (http://www.njghost.com/dmboycott/).
I take no credit for the recent news I’ve been hearing, though, that Desert Moon has officially gone out of business. Whether this is just a re-grouping effort by Fesperman is unclear, but I’ve been told that there is an “out of business” sign in their office window, and they are no longer taking shipments. Also, all of their phone lines have been disconnected (which I have confirmed as true).
So, if you are a publisher currently looking for another distributor, take a look at the boycott web site, as there is a listing of companies that you can at least start with. You probably have already contacted at least half of them if you are a serious publisher, but there might be a few on there you haven’t spoken to yet. I don’t claim that any of the companies listed are free from unethical practices, since I just don’t have the resources to perform that type of investigation, but it’s at least a good start.
Please bookmark the boycott site, since in the future I hope to evolve it into a “revolutionize distribution” web site, by getting some industry input on guidelines and legal protections that publishers can employ to stop this type of abuse at the hands of distributors in the future. I’m speaking with industry groups, publishers, and the distribution companies themselves to see what can be done.
With everyone’s input and support, we can make this happen and foster growth in independent publishing!
Bob Sheairs
http://www.njghost.com/dmboycott/
Hey Guys!
Rich from Under the Volcano zine in beautiful New York here. Right now, Desert Moon has about $13,000 in open invoices with me. An attorney has just located Mike Warren’s whereabouts, but after reading this board, I’m not very optimistic. I’ll letcha know the outcome.
Under JR, the new company name was FESCO dba DESERT MOON…and yes, their phone is now bye bye.
Some other stuff: The DM website is still up…the domain appears to have been renewed in July 05, which points to this whole thing being carefully planned.
Pretty fucked.
Why can’t I find just ONE honest, competent newsstand distributor that takes a few thousand copies?
yeesh.
go figure.
thank god you catz are all here and exist.
wasim here, editor and publisher of wav magazine – progressive music art politics culture (www.wavmag.com)
so we just signed with desert moon about 3 months ago for our first newsstand issue. we’ve been publishing a free zine for well over a year, and upon securing distro thru desert moon, we decided to up quality to glossy and about 1/3 color pages. it turned out beautifully i must say so myself. but after another credit card, a few liters of sperm and blood now sitting in banks across southern california, an mri, an eeg, an exhaustion induced seizure, and a brain wave scan, we printed and shipped to desert moon, only to hear 2 days later that they have filed for bankruptcy. yay!
any ideas on what to do to screw that f****r JR or to find alternate distribution? any idea on how we can all get together and do something? i’m at a loss for thoughts and words. how can i help you help me help you?
cheers,
w
Rich from Under the Volcano again. Can anyone tell me the EXACT name of the account on any checks they’ve received from Desert Moon? Was it Desert Moon Periodicals, Desert Moon Periodicals, Inc., Invisible Inc., Desert Moon Distribution (or Distributing?)…
It would be a great help!
Thanx!
I’ve kind of been avoiding the whole subject for the past few weeks, but I need to do something. I need to at least read over the bankruptcy materials that they sent and see what, if any, real information they contain. Then I suppose I should start looking into new distributors. I called and talked with Borders and they suggested a company, but I don’t know that I can justify spending the money that it would cost to join them. (Yes, they bill you for selling through them.)
And, as for your question, Rich, I haven’t gone through and looked at all of my checks from them, but the few I found so far say “Desert Moon Periodicals,” and they’re drawn from Century Bank FSB in Sante Fe.
-Mark
Hey Mark!
Thank you for the info…btw, I’d STAY AWAY from Ingram…low sell through, fees, fees, fees…I’ve heard REALLY good things about Big Top, whom I intend to solicit in the next month or so…
I never received any bankruptcy materials…by chance, is it an email that could be forwarded to my address?
Also, would it be possible to obtain a photocopy of one of the DM checks? Lemme know, please…
Guys,
Please check out the Boycott DM web site (http://www.njghost.com/dmboycott/). I’ve collected not only a listing of the retailers that were supplied by DM, but also a good starters list of Distributors you can contact.
Let me know what you experience with any of them, and I will update the listings.
Thanks,
Bob
Heres the lasted update I got from WEE:
Mike Warren owned the company Invisible Inc which used
the trade name
Mike,
You’re partially right. You left out that Warren filed for Bankruptcy after selling DM to Fesperman, under the Dissolution process. So, what they were attempting to do, was to transfer control of DM to Fesperman free-and-clear of any ties to the planned Bankruptcy. If Warren tried to sell DM under a Bankruptcy agreement, Fesperman would still be liable for the debts, I believe, since it would be under the control of a bankruptcy court and not a private sale (as it was with Business Dissolution).
I think someone in the NM courts finally caught on to what these two knuckleheads were doing, though, since Fesperman has effectively shut down Desert Moon the last time I checked.
All of this is on the Boycott web site. No need to rehash old information.
Bob
Looks like the Desert Moon website is now down as well. I guess its the big kiss-off
Thanks for posting this info.
I do think it’s good that you help to expose Desert Moon Periodicals for the con-men that they are.
However, I have to take issue with your use in this post of the word “cocksucker” as a derogatory term. It’s insulting and offensive…and to some of the most thoughtful and generous individuals amongst us. It seems incredibly idiotic and contradictory to me that any guy who appreciates this ‘gesture’ from a loved one would refer to the act in any way that suggests it’s somehow a loathsome one performed by a loathsome individual. I’m assuming here of course that you, Mark, are not completely opposed to the act as a gesture of romantic desire by one individual toward another.
It seems pretty self evident that the term originated with homophobes and misogynists, and I am under the impression, Mark, that you would not identify yourself as either, and would not want to assist in the proliferation of their expressions, attitudes or issues.
So please drop from your language the use of this term as a derogatory insult. I will be happy to offer many excellent alternative expressions I am sure you will find satisfactory.
And cock isn’t an organ I suck passively.
J.R. is the Bernie Madoff of the indie publishing world. he can run and run and run and run but he can’t hide forever. one day he’ll slip and show his face in the wrong place and BOOM — end of story. i won’t say who i heard this from but apparently there’s actually a price on his head.
peace!
Lighten up, Robert.
See you soon.