Michigan to shutdown again, as Dr. Atlas appears to encourage violence

Six days ago, we had 10 million COVID-19 cases in the United States. Today, we have 11 million. That’s one million new cases in less that a week. The infectious respiratory disease, it would seem, is spreading uncontrollably now. Here in Michigan, we just broke our single-day record for new cases this past Friday with 8,516 more people having been diagnosed. As of right now, we’ve lost 7,994 people to COVID-19 here in Michigan, including my friend Monica Echeverri Casarez, a surgical technician in Detroit. And, according to projections quoted today by Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, if we don’t take immediate action, we could soon get to the point where we’re losing 1,000 people a week in the state.

In spite of this, we’re still not seeing significant movement at the federal level. In fact, Anthony Fauci, our nation’s leading expert on infectious diseases, just said publicly that it’s been “several months” since President Trump has even attended a meeting of his administration’s the coronavirus task force. As Maureen Dowd today wrote in the New York Times, “The president, who has never shown much interest in governing, has finally dropped all pretense,” and that certainly seems to be the case with regard to COVID-19. As people are dying across America, Donald Trump is focused on golfing, and spreading dangerous conspiracy theories about an election that he decisively lost. [Not only is Trump not addressing the pandemic, but, by not conceding the election, he’s making it impossible to the Biden administration to get started.] And, as a result, the states are once again having to step in.

Here in Michigan, our Governor, Gretchen Whitmer, announced this evening that we’d be shutting down once again. From November 18 to December 8, she said, all bars and restaurants would be closed for indoor dining, all in-person high school and college classes would be cancelled, and all non-essential workers would be encouraged to work from home. Here’s the announcement.

Public health professionals lauded the decision, with one notable exception. Donald Trump’s controversial COVID-19 advisor, Scott Atlas, encouraged people to “rise up” against Whitmer… which came across to me as especially loathsome, as the last time people were encouraged to “liberate” Michigan, a number of anti-government militia members started plotting to kidnap and assassinate Whitmer.

If the virus could speak, I don’t imagine in could do a better job of advocating for its own interests. I mean, inciting violence against elected officials for urging people to stay home and wear masks is pretty aggressive… especially given the reality of the situation that we’re all dealing with right now, with hospitals filling up, and dead rates climbing. [Did you see the video of the inmates loading dead bodies into a mobile morgue in El Paso? How about the newspaper obituary section that ran over 10 pages long?] One would think that perhaps, instead, Dr. Atlas could be encouraging people to wear masks and stay home, but what would that do, other than save lives? It certainly wouldn’t make Donald Trump happy. And that’s what this is really all about, isn’t it?

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  1. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 16, 2020 at 12:58 am | Permalink

    Atlas did not encourage violence.

  2. Bob
    Posted November 16, 2020 at 7:52 am | Permalink

    Gov Whitmer is a smart, incredibly brave leader. I was sceptical of her before she was elected but I’m totally with her. I hope she stays safe. I hope she’s strapped to the nines. The crazys will be out for her. Republican reps for starters.

  3. Lynne
    Posted November 16, 2020 at 9:39 am | Permalink

    I am sure Atlas did not intend to encourage violence but rather was encouraging civil disobedience but it was still a very irresponsible statement to make in our current environment. The kind of dudes who would concoct a scheme to kidnap the governor could see such a message as encouragement for other terrorism plans.

  4. Lynne
    Posted November 16, 2020 at 9:40 am | Permalink

    *although I think it could be argued that if the civil disobedience involves not wearing masks and opening businesses that are supposed to be closed, it is a form of violence in that people will be physically hurt.

  5. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 16, 2020 at 10:25 am | Permalink

    Saying rise up against unconstitutional rules encourages violence. Sucker punching and stabbing people is peaceful protest.

  6. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 16, 2020 at 10:32 am | Permalink

    If you listen to Ozzie Ozborne records backwards you can hear the words “Lynne is full of shit”.

  7. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 16, 2020 at 10:43 am | Permalink

    IMO Whitmer’s first round of shutdowns were so poorly thought out I was forced to assume she has an extremely low IQ. She could have looked at other state’s shutdown strategies to get a clue. This round of shutdowns are more reasonable imo. However, I support people who disagree with me to “rise up” and let their voices be heard. I certainly wouldn’t consider supporting voices being heard a form of “violence”. In fact, the only way such an interpretation is possible, imo, is if someone has a serious authoritarian impulse. Which is exactly what Maynard and Lynne clearly have.

  8. Lynne
    Posted November 16, 2020 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    What FF means is that he doesn’t like women who have power. Whitmer has been doing a fabulous job!

    If people rise up by voting or protesting, that is fine but if people rise up by refusing to wear masks or by refusing to shut down their businesses, that is another and is a form of violence in that their actions will cause people harm.

  9. Clayton Horning
    Posted November 16, 2020 at 11:35 am | Permalink

    The Michigan Supreme Court ruled last month that it’s unlawful for Whitmer to issue Covid-19 Executive Orders. This lockdown is therefore unlawful. Beyond that, she’s the queen of making bad decisions. Remember when she tried to make vaping illegal in Michigan over “teen vaping” hysteria? To quote the “godshall 2015 vaping” document from the FDA http://www.casaa.org/wp-content/uploads/GodshallFDAcomment-December-2015.pdf “The growing mountain of scientific and empirical evidence consistently indicates that electronic cigarettes are 99% less hazardous than cigarettes.” I’ll be getting this shirt immediately. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08CTGXZQC/?coliid=I3E5LGYGZ3ZTRY&colid=12IFO7CSC0WS7&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

  10. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 16, 2020 at 11:49 am | Permalink

    Bullshit is bullshit. Did you read my comment Cassandra? I think Whitmer’s latest orders were more or less reasonable. Her first round of orders were the product of a PERSON who has a low IQ. Ban boats! Ban gardening centers! Jesus….

  11. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 16, 2020 at 11:54 am | Permalink

    Lynne is higher risk than I am. She also takes bigger risks than I do. If Lynne indirectly takes medical resources away from me because of her higher risk activities then would it be normal for me to say that Lynne is doing violence to me? Lynne is fundamentally a thinly veiled authoritarian. She thinks she can label anything “violence” of it is not in line with her preferred course of action. It is her right to mislabel things. And it is our right to call her full of shit.

  12. Posted November 16, 2020 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    Recklessly exposing others to potentially fatal circumstances when properly constituted authorities (what ever we might think about the authority we have given government to act in a public health crises-and despite Clayton’s confusion under what authority Whitmer is acting) has warned, cautioned and imposed penalties for violation of public health orders, makes you a criminal guilty of reckless endangerment. If your actions can be linked directly to a covid exposure and death–you would be guilty of negligent homicide.
    The Trumpers have a hard time dealing with the complexity of modern society. Being driven by their id’s they frequently seem to act like sociopaths. Kyle I am sure is beginning to appreciate the complexities of acting outside the law, which is presumably what Atlas was advocating, since we don’t have an election scheduled for two years and no candidates yet–I don’t find it plausible he was talking about voting.
    With Trump on his way out it seems like all the TV reality stars will be leaving, Kudlow, Atlas and Trump the new headliners for Trumps media outlet.

  13. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 16, 2020 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    “their actions will cause people harm.”

    Too bad you can’t prove that.

  14. Jean Henry
    Posted November 16, 2020 at 1:20 pm | Permalink

    HW what is the basis for saying the Gov’s EO’s are unconstitutional?

  15. Jean Henry
    Posted November 16, 2020 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

    ‘Low IQ’


  16. Erin
    Posted November 16, 2020 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

    I hear state representatives are calling for Whitmer’s impeachment. What a sad world we live in when people cannot accept the ask to do the right things to save lives and be compassionate.

  17. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 16, 2020 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

    I think you are trying to make fun of me, Jean. That is not very nice.

    Did you think banning gardening centers was smart? Did you think banning people from going to their second homes was smart? Did you think banning people from boating was smart? Did you think forbidding people from carrying out their regular businesses that involve outdoor labor was smart? When she lifted her ban did you think it was smart that she did not limit the number of workmen per truck like other states?

  18. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 16, 2020 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

    “HW what is the basis for saying the Gov’s EO’s are unconstitutional?”

    What? You don’t pay attention at all to current events in our state? Why do you think you know what is going on but you never do in reality?


    The Michigan Supreme Court, in opinions by Justice MARKMAN, Chief Justice MCCORMACK, Justice VIVIANO, and Justice BERNSTEIN, unanimously held: The first certified question is partially answered in the negative: The Governor did not have authority after April 30, 2020, to issue or renew any executive orders related to the COVID-19 pandemic under the EMA.

    The Michigan Supreme Court, in an opinion by Justice MARKMAN joined in full by Justices ZAHRA and CLEMENT and joined as to Parts III(A), (B), (C)(2), and IV by Justice VIVIANO, further held: The second certified question is partially answered in the affirmative: The Governor did not possess the authority to exercise emergency powers under the EPGA because the act unlawfully delegates legislative power to the executive branch in violation of the Michigan Constitution.

  19. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 16, 2020 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    They made her end the authoritarian power grab due to it being unconstitutional. Now she has given it to the health department to carry out but how can they do it? Is it constitutional for them but not the governor do you think?

  20. Bob
    Posted November 16, 2020 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

    How about that gerrymandering, Trump -stooge, asswipe Tim Walberg contracting Covid after months of mocking the governor and the virus and throwing his mask to the stage?

  21. Lynne
    Posted November 16, 2020 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    We didn’t have the same information we have now, FF. And yes, it is hilarious that YOU of all people would seek to insult someone for having a low IQ. Hahahahahaha. I don’t think I generally take bigger risks than you do. I did early on because that shit-head who is our president failed to make all of the information he had available to the general public. I have not violated ANY mandates or rules though, even then. Encouraging people to voilate the mandates and rules is irresponsible. Plain and simple.

    Clayton Horning – You are wrong. The court ruled that Whitmer could not issue orders under one statute but there are plenty of others that they did not rule on. She is issuing these orders under a different law that gives her the authority to do it.

  22. Lynne
    Posted November 16, 2020 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

    FF, It is telling though that when I *joked* about going to a Trump rally and coughing on people if I ever got diagnosed with COVID, you were able to see the violence in such an action even if you generally have trouble distinguishing between satire and reality.

  23. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 16, 2020 at 4:37 pm | Permalink


    You argued with me about Whitmer’s actual rules when you were in California. You said I did not understand her rules—presumably because her rules did not make sense to you on an intuitive level. There was a reason her rules did not match your intuitions of what was reasonable—because certain aspects of her first orders were not reasonable.

    You joked about committing a bioterrorist act during a pandemic. A joke is not violence but a joke can be irresponsible, in bad taste or even indicative of a person’s poor character. I think your joke aligned with a truth about your character. I like to believe there are not any people on MM who are capable of actually carrying out such a bioterroristic attacks. I doubt besides you (and maybe Bob) there are many people who are capable of making a joke about bioterrorism during a pandemic. Normal people just don’t do that. I don’t think you are normal Lynne. Sorry.

    To recap: According to Princess Lynne, when someone says she is going to intentionally spread a disease to her political rivals it ought to be considered “funny”. When someone else says “rise up” against objectionable policy then we ought to perceive that as “irresponsible” rhetoric “encouraging violence”—even when the person calling for people to “rise up” explicitly says he is not in anyway condoning violence…

  24. disinterested observer
    Posted November 16, 2020 at 5:58 pm | Permalink

    It is my unbiased opinion that Frosted Flake’s character is poorer than Lynne’s.

  25. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 16, 2020 at 6:21 pm | Permalink


    I hold your opinion in high regard so may I ask: Do you think it would be a sign of an improved character if I started making more jokes in public about intentionally spreading covid to my political adversaries through acts of bioterrorism?

  26. Lynne
    Posted November 16, 2020 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

    Well, I love dark humor so I think that it could be much nicer around here if FF starting joking about things. If he is funny at least which we haven’t seen much here but you never know!

  27. Lynne
    Posted November 16, 2020 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

    So on Halloween, I watched a movie about two serial killers who manipulated a mentally ill family member into helping them cover up the murders by burying them in the basement. And I laughed the whole time!


  28. Posted November 17, 2020 at 7:04 am | Permalink

    Covid nurse says some dying patients are still refusing to believe virus is real: ‘This can’t be happening’


  29. Anonymous
    Posted November 17, 2020 at 7:23 am | Permalink

    FF’s sense of humor doesn’t translate well to this board.

  30. Posted November 17, 2020 at 8:03 am | Permalink

    Like me, I think FF is much more into the slap stick physical humor. It just does not play well in a written medium (could explain his penchant for videos). Including blocking directions and sound effects (kinda like the original batman show) just does not generate the same guffaws as watching some one trip over a hassock every time they walk into the room. The use of all our senses can generate a much greater therapeutic response.

    Kinda like Carey Grant looking in the window seat, describing his actions just doesn’t generate the same response as watching Grant’s expression when he sees the bodies—in writing it would seem ghoulish, watching makes you laugh.

  31. disinterested observer
    Posted November 17, 2020 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    I’m not here to do anything more than pass impartial judgment on matters I choose. If you and Lynne want to submit jokes about committing bioterrorism against your political opponents, I will judge them and declare a loser, if I still feel like it.

  32. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 17, 2020 at 9:45 am | Permalink

    I don’t enjoy slapstick much at all. I enjoy dark humor. Lynne and I might share that in common. I am not sure though because “Arsenic and Old Lace” seemed mostly to be a screwball comedy filled with slapstick. You guys are funny.

  33. Lynne
    Posted November 17, 2020 at 9:48 am | Permalink

    See? DO has a good sense of humor. LOL

  34. Satan
    Posted November 17, 2020 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

    Let them rise!


  35. Bob
    Posted November 17, 2020 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

    Warlord, what day is the storm coming? Toilet paper is getting scarce again and I’m not going to bother chasing it if I don’t absolutely need to.

  36. Posted November 17, 2020 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    HW isn’t available right now, Bob. Turnip’s out collecting his million dollar reward.

    CNN: Want $1 million? Just find some ‘voter fraud’


  37. iRobert
    Posted November 17, 2020 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

    Is Turnip your pet name for him, Satan? Can I use that one?

  38. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 17, 2020 at 9:22 pm | Permalink

    Two counties in Georgia have found votes for Trump that somehow did not get reported on election night. We already know about the two in Michigan. Will there be any that go the other way do you think? If they are random mistakes then there should be an equal distribution.

  39. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 17, 2020 at 9:28 pm | Permalink

    He knows damn well there is fraud. 134 counts of ordering ballots on behalf of residents without their consent by one person alone in Texas:


    Ignorance is going down and you are going with it.

  40. Lynne
    Posted November 17, 2020 at 9:46 pm | Permalink

    I know it hurts HW. Denial is a valid stage of grief!

  41. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 17, 2020 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

    You ought to know. You are in denial of your party’s massive fraud.


    HAWTHORNE, Calif. (CNS) — A man who tried to run for mayor in Hawthorne is among two people charged in a voter fraud case in which thousands of fraudulent voter registration applications were allegedly submitted on behalf of homeless people, the Los Angeles County District Attorney’s Office announced Tuesday.

  42. Anonymous
    Posted November 17, 2020 at 9:57 pm | Permalink

    HW you should really donate to the Trump campaign fund to help out the cause. Otherwise you’re all bark and no bite. Also all Mark and no might.

  43. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 17, 2020 at 10:16 pm | Permalink


  44. iRobert
    Posted November 17, 2020 at 11:40 pm | Permalink

    Did you get your million dollars for finding the fraud in Texas, Turnip?

  45. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 18, 2020 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    Everyone knows that so how could he possibly pay up? Just another gaslighting moron.

  46. iRobert
    Posted November 18, 2020 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    He’s the idiot offering the money. And you’re the idiot who thinks you’ve found massively fraud. You’re a crackpot. Get help.

  47. Posted November 18, 2020 at 11:34 am | Permalink

    How many fraudulent votes were cast in that Hawthorne, California case? Was it zero?

  48. Nobody
    Posted November 18, 2020 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    Trump’s strategy appears to be to prevent a few key states from certifying their votes, leading to each state getting ONE VOTE EACH.

    from Heather Cox Richardson’s site:

    “National political reporter Robert Costa says he keeps hearing from people around Trump’s lawyer Rudy Giuliani that they are challenging the results of the election not because they think there is any chance for Trump to catch up to Biden in actual votes, but in order to try to prevent key states from certifying their votes. This would throw the election into the House of Representatives, where each state gets one vote. This, they believe, would give Trump a win.”

    … and here is an older article from the Atlantic with more details on how this ridiculous strategy could possibly legally work….


  49. Posted November 18, 2020 at 11:02 pm | Permalink

    Lawsuit: Tyson managers bet money on how many workers would contract COVID-19 in mid-April, around the time Black Hawk County Sherriff Tony Thompson visited the plant and reported the working conditions there “shook [him] to the core,” plant manager Tom Hart organized a cash-buy-in, winner-take-all, betting pool for supervisors and managers to wager how many plant employees would test positive for COVID-19.

    John Casey, an upper-level manager at the plant, is alleged to have explicitly directed supervisors to ignore symptoms of COVID-19, telling them to show up to work even if they were exhibiting symptoms of the virus. Casey reportedly referred to COVID-19 as the “glorified flu” and told workers not to worry about it because “it’s not a big deal” and “everyone is going to get it.” On one occasion, Casey intercepted a sick supervisor who was on his way to be tested and ordered him to get back to work, saying, “We all have symptoms — you have a job to do.” After one employee vomited on the production line, managers reportedly allowed the man to continue working and then return to work the next day.

    In late March or early April, as the pandemic spread across Iowa, managers at the Waterloo plant reportedly began avoiding the plant floor for fear of contracting the virus. As a result, they increasingly delegated managerial authority and responsibilities to low-level supervisors who had no management training or experience. The supervisors did not require truck drivers and subcontractors to have their temperatures checked before entering the plant.

    In March and April, plant supervisors falsely denied the existence of any confirmed cases or positive tests for COVID-19 within the plant, and allegedly told workers they had a responsibility to keep working to ensure Americans didn’t go hungry as the result of a shutdown.

    Tyson paid out $500 “thank you bonuses” to employees who turned up for every scheduled shift for three months — a policy decision that allegedly incentivized sick workers to continue reporting for work.

    Tyson executives allegedly lobbied Iowa Gov. Kim Reynolds for COVID-19 liability protections that would shield the company from lawsuits, and successfully lobbied the governor to declare that only the state government, not local governments, had the authority to close businesses in response to the pandemic.

  50. Posted November 19, 2020 at 8:13 am | Permalink

    Washtenaw County COVID-19 outbreak infects 31 people, exposes 40


    (From WXYZ-TV)

  51. Posted November 19, 2020 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    Ah yes, the Eagles outbreak. It was being discussed a few days ago on social media (maybe even as long ago as last week). I am beginning to think, that unless outbreaks are exposed on social media, the public health authorities keep them quit. The outbreaks at various restaurants all seem to be discussed up to a week or more prior to County Health officials putting out public notices. Hardly an effective strategy for containment of the trumpvirus. This article in The Atlantic is quit good on what social measure are effective in controlling the spread–if the death cult had not politized the virus in an attempt to create election chaos we would be in so much better shape–NEVER let the Trumpers forget that we hold them responsible for the deaths and destruction.

  52. Posted November 19, 2020 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

    Rural communities are now experiencing a COVID-19 death rate that is double what the rates are in the big cities.

    Meanwhile, Taiwan is still at 0.3 deaths per million population. Do you Trumpanzees see the difference competence at the federal level makes yet? Or do you still need some more time?

  53. Posted November 23, 2020 at 6:39 am | Permalink

    “By the way, on November 4, you won’t hear about it anymore,” – DJT

    This is what this moron in the White House and his idiot Trumpanzees were saying a few weeks ago.

    Now they’re silent on the subject of course.

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