Five days ago, in response to repeated, unverified claims of election fraud, Chris Krebs, the Trump -appointed director of the Department of Homeland Security’s cybersecurity agency, issued a statement declaring definitely, “There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised.” The official Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency statement which Krebs authored — which was cosigned by the presidents of the National Association of Secretaries of State and the National Association of State Election Directors, among others — went on to refer to our recent election as, “the most secure in American history.” You can read the full statement here.
Here’s the full joint statement that infuriated the president so much it led him to fire Cybersecurity & Infrastructure Security Agency Dir. Krebs (bolding theirs): “There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised.” pic.twitter.com/9zkx6ISB4M
— Monica Alba (@albamonica) November 18, 2020
And here’s the response from Donald “I Won the Election” Trump, who today fired Krebs, saying that the above statement about the integrity of our electoral system was “highly inaccurate.”
It should be noted that Donald Trump, for all of his talk about election fraud, has yet to come forward with any actual examples. It’s now been two weeks since the election, and Trump’s personal attorney is still saying that, while he has evidence of fraud, he’s not yet able to share it. [You would think that, if they had actual evidence, they would have bought it to the table before all of the states certified their election results, right? Well, the fact that they didn’t, I think, tells you everything you need to know about their so-called evidence. There is none, and never was. And that’s why all of their court filings are being thrown out across the country.]
This, of course, is extremely dangerous. The President of the United States is attempting to steal the election, claiming that he would have won if not for rampant fraud across a series of states — states which, by the way, are predominantly controlled by Republicans. As you’ll recall, he did the same thing in 2016, when he lost the popular vote to Hillary Clinton. He declared that millions of people had voted illegally for her, and that, if not for this fact, he would have had more votes that her. He created a commission to look into it, and, surprising no one, the group didn’t discover any evidence of significant, coordinated fraud, and quietly disbanded. And the same thing is happening here. Only, this time, it appears as though more Republicans are willing to go along with the dangerous charade.
Here in Michigan we have Monica Palmer and William Hartmann, Republican members of the Wayne County Board of Canvassers, who have refused to certify the election results in the heavily Democratic Detroit, in what Governor Whitmer has called, “a blatant attempt to undermine the will of the voters.” And, in Georgia, we have Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger saying that Lindsey Graham, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, pressured him to toss out legal ballots in certain counties in hopes that it might help trump’s chances. This, my friends, is what real election fraud looks like.
I’m confident that justice will prevail, and that Biden will take office in January, but it amazes me that so many people are still willing not just to humor Donald Trump, but to actively aid him in his attempt to cheat his way into a second term.
update: It turns out that the people of Wayne County weren’t too happy about not having their votes counted. They pushed back hard, and the results of the election were eventually certified. And, with that, Joe Biden has officially won Michigan.
Don't mess with Wayne County. https://t.co/5g2rvUr5fP
— Dana Nessel (@dananessel) November 18, 2020
122 Comments
Monica Palmer and William Hartmann reversed their votes and have certified the Detroit results. I wonder if they’ll tell us why.
Yes. I wonder why the Republicans might attempt to cast a shadow of doubt over Detroit votes? What is it about Detroit that can be used as a dog whistle to scapegoat a voting bloc with voter fraud? I am 100% sure Palmer and Hartmann will not ever really tell us why.
Politics is interesting and all.
Although at this point a little dreadful.
Did I miss a post about this Bellflower restaurant?
I keep seeing it pop on social media.
I really enjoy you life based post about family kids, etc.
I still think you should pursue the. Diskette aged hipster Erma Bombeck angle.
P.S.
I do think Mayor Pete will get a spot in the Biden government.
yes, Sad. You seem to have missed the posts about Ypsilanti’s hottest new restaurant, Bellflower. That makes me sad.
Third county in Georgia finds ballots resulting in a gain for Trump. That’s five counties so far between Michigan and Georgia with the same pattern. How many before it becomes statistically (virtually) impossible?
That’s the little shit totaling merely thousands of votes. Wait till even ignorant people like you find out about Dominion and Smartmatic.
HW, keep working on it. Get that “stabbed in the back” and “it was stolen” story down pat. Your going to be repeating it for the rest of your life. Trump sent out the plan, and more and more of the death cult are deserting instead. Stay true HW.
By the way any word from EOS down in Georgia?
It is you who is going to be like “And if it wasn’t for you meddling kids we would have gotten away with it!”
There is election fraud; then there is Biden/Kim level election fraud.
https://usaherald.com/breaking-third-georgia-ballot-error-found/
Chairman of the Georgia Republican Party David Shafer announced on twitter another “mistake” that has been found.
“One of our monitors discovered a 9,626 vote error in the DeKalb County hand count. One batch was labeled 10,707 for Biden and 13 for Trump – an improbable margin even by DeKalb standards. The actual count for the batch was 1,081 for Biden and 13 for Trump,” he said.
“We were limited to 1 monitor for every 10 counting tables and we were kept some distance from the tables. There is no telling what we missed under these unreasonable restrictions. The miscounted batch had been be signed off by two official counters,” he said.
And it gets even more insane. Had the voting error not been found Biden would have had a margin of victory greater than some of the world’s most prolific dictators.
“Biden’s margin of victory in this batch of votes (99.9%) bested Bashar al-Assad’s 2007 margin (97.6%) and Raul Castro’s 2008 margin (99.4%). It matched Kim Jong-il’s 2009 margin (99.9%).
“Our attorneys have turned over an affidavit from our monitor to the Secretary of State and requested an investigation,” he said.
You obviously haven’t bothered to look at the details is each of these cases where local GOP election officials failed to follow basic procedures. That’s what has been at the root of every one of these incidents so far. You either are too dumb to know that, or you’re too mentally fucked up to admit it. Either way, I look forward to your ridiculous fantasies being shattered once again. It’s an endless pattern with you.
The Last Time Trump Alleged Massive Fraud
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/kris-kobach-and-search-mythical-voter-fraud/617069/
Sorry HW, back to your cave
https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1329081732759388160
My new theme song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXb-TgSy-G8
I don’t vouch for “GOP election officials”. Why would that even matter when every single error/glitch helped Biden?
Dekalb County is dem run and the “error” was found by repubs so what are you trying to say?
That’s funny you would mention basic procedures in a derogatory way about repubs! Look at the violations by dems.
The Trump campaign has filed 25 lawsuits related to the election. Judges require that plaintiffs provide evidence for those lawsuits to proceed. The initial evidentiary standard imposed for a lawsuit to proceed from step 1 is pretty low. 24 of the Republican lawsuits have been dismissed by Judges because they can not reach that pretty low standard of proof.
The specifics of the allegations contained in the Michigan lawsuit were laughable. “A Union official looked at me, so I was intimidated”, ” A Democrat called me a Karen”. Judges thought “so what” and threw the case out.
Gaslighting moron. Just one of 500 affidavits?
https://filmdaily.co/news/election-fraud-michigan/
A 234-page affidavit from Michigan ballot counters was used as evidence for Trump’s lawsuit. Those who signed the affidavit included an IT contractor, election workers, and poll watchers. The affidavit included several complaints about electoral corruption, including poll workers “coaching” voters to vote for a certain candidate.
The affidavit included poll worker Jessy Jacob, who claimed she witnessed members “coaching voters to vote for Joe Biden”. She also asserted her supervisor asked her to change dates on ballots, so it would appear as if they arrived before the deadline. If Jacob’s claim is proven true, it could lead to strict legal action against Michigan and possibly change the election result.
HW, that suit was thrown out
https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/mich-election-ruling.pdf
They are still looking into the allegations made by Jessy Jacob but I don’t think the number of ballots involved is enough to change the outcome of the election
The screw-ups have occurred for officials of both major political parties. HW is only focusing on the Dem screw ups when he wants to mention causation. When it’s Republicans who screw up, he leaves that detail out. Only an emotional mess does such things. Grow up, Turnip.
Why has every mistake gone to Biden? That is the question. The more the pattern continues the more obviously it is coordinated fraud.
“HW, that suit was thrown out”
Do you think that means it is incorrect? Getting thrown out of a lower court? It says at the end the judge’s decision does not close the case. I don’t think we have to mess with relatively minor things like that anyway. Much bigger fish are about to fry.
Is this the moment when Trump unseals those 150,000 indictments? Or are we not there yet?
Final tallies are being completed; Georgia is conducting a hand recount, and there could be a recount in Wisconsin if the Trump campaign decides to pay for one. But here are the margins by which Biden won three critical states, as of Wednesday morning:
Arizona: 10,457
Georgia: 14,028
Wisconsin: 20,565
Total: 45,050
If we’re thinking about whether Trump could make up any of those deficits in a recount, the answer is almost certainly no; recounts seldom find mistakes that move more than a few hundred votes in one direction or another, and could just as easily make Biden’s leads larger.
But if Trump had managed to get those 45,000 votes, he would have won 37 more electoral votes, making the electoral college a 269-to-269 tie. Under the Constitution, the election would have then been decided by the House of Representatives, with each state delegation getting just one vote. Even though Democrats have a majority in the House, more state delegations have Republican majorities. Trump would have been reelected.
: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/11/18/how-2020-election-was-closer-than-2016/
It was a very close election in that sense, wobblie. I just hope that the left can start playing a long game that involves changes at state and local level.
I’m fascinated (and relieved) by the virtual disappearance of Trump supporters here. Did they only come here to gloat? FF obviously spent a good part of his day here for years. I wonder how he’s filling his time now. Only HW has the heart to persist with the claims of electoral fraud. It’s going to be interesting if this thing comes down to faithless electors since so many here encouraged and justified that particular mode of subverting the election when Trump won. I very much hope that and the memory of accusations of voter fraud by many here tempers people’s righteousness. Of course, the difference this time is that neither President Obama nor HRC went along with Dem strategies to undermine the election…
I think I posted in the last few days. What is your major malfunction Jean? Why do you bother spinning these mini bullshit narratives constantly?
Is Krebs a voter fraud historian? He knows this is one of the most secure elections ever? How does he know that? There is voter fraud. To say otherwise is a false statement. So we have Kreb’s making false statements and claiming to know things he can’t know. That’s fucked up. Why wouldn’t he be fired?
With regard to who will be president—the question is about the extent of fraud. My guess is that Biden will be president, but let’s go through the legal process. Duh.
JH, I suspect they are busy moving to Georgia. You have to December 3 (?) to establish residency and register for the January election. Meanwhile, I am preparing my move to Ohio. Got to flip the state for 2022. If only we had crushed the virus instead of embracing it, I would be setting up home on a quit little family island in the Caribb–how I hate the death cult for ruining my last days on this planet.
FF, Following the “legal process” is not what Trump and the death cult are doing. They are challenging the results of the “legal process”. So far they have not produced any evidence sufficient for a Judge to believe they have much substance to their allegations of voter fraud.
The “legal process” is for county and state election officials certify the vote results. Trump is challenging their authority or the results of their actions. So far without providing any real evidence.
Folks who make baseless accusations are not following a “legal process”, they are throwing sand in folks faces and hoping you look the other way while they “delegitimize” the results of the election–nothing about a “legal process” being involved in that activity.
I am sure Trump and his death cult will prove to be just as incompetent in organizing this coup as they were in every other thing they did (except for giving money and favors away to the plutocrats and foreign investors who supported them).
In the US, when the ruling classes political organizations tell you, you are toast, you are toast.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/chamber-of-commerce-ceo-tom-donohue-urges-trump-to-not-delay-transition-to-biden-a-moment-longer/ar-BB1baJ1V?ocid=msedgdhp
What the hell is going on over there in Michigan. Did Monica Palmer and William Hartmann “rescind” their votes yesterday to certifiy the Wayne county votes ? After talking to Donald Trump? Michigan is supposed to certify their results on November 23rd. If they blow by that date, Trump is one step closer to having the House decide with one vote per state.
FF- maybe you can use some of your cognitive energy to confirm truths rather than cast doubts. Trump is saying there were more votes cast in Detroit than the number of residents. What do you have to say about that?
The Trump campaign dropped their lawsuit in Michigan.
Monica Palmer and William Hartmann can not withdraw their certification of the Wayne County results.
71% of Detroit precincts reported vote totals that did not match the totals in their signature books. However, the discrepancies are small, usually a difference of less than five for each of these precincts. The total of all discrepancies in Detroit adds up to about 340 votes. An audit would reveal who and why there were these discrepancies, as has been done in previous elections, and it would be unintentional human error.
The Trumpanzees who just fell off the Turnip truck, and are not familiar with the amount of human error that occurs in every big election, want to fantasize that this election was way worse than any others. Just as they like to say the economy was the best ever and that Trump has done more for black people than any other president with the possible exception of Lincoln, they are simply full of shit.
FF with the liar liar pants of fire offense again… To serve the interests of the biggest liar most of us will ever witness.
“What is your major malfunction Jean? ” OMG! Have you used that line since 7th grade?!?!?Since the late 70’s?!?
Wayne County has a ton of illegitimate ballots. You will see.
In counties that used Dominion Voting Systems you will find fractions being shaved off or switched from Trump to Biden. The more red the county the higher the percentage. Total conspiracy that will bury your ignorant kind of thinking once understood by the public.
HW: “How do you ‘safeguard’ US elections post-POTUS… It had to be this way. Sometimes you must walk through the darkness before you can see the light.”
Even Q has all but given up. No storm.
Have you considered taking up woodworking?
You think that’s what it means but it doesn’t add up. If he loses there is no safeguarding elections (from fraud) in the future. Did you read that interpretation somewhere or come up with it by yourself?
What it means is they had to allow the fraud to occur this time unlike in 2016. They set a trap and dems and rinos walked right into it. This period of fake news “calling it” for Biden is the darkness and we are getting through it no problem. Perhaps leftist goons going insane will be part of it but like I said I don’t think that will last long.
To be clear since I know you can’t understand anything properly: How you safeguard elections post-POTUS (2024 – …) is expose massive coordinated fraud (treason conspiracy) in this election. Presumably doing so triggers the Storm.
What about the COVID PCR hoax? I thought it was supposed to disappear a couple of weeks ago? Will you investigate the St. Joe’s ICU to expose it?
Just watched President elect Biden give a press conference. I was impressed.
uh huh…
Still waiting.
HW: “They set a trap and dems and rinos walked right into it.“
Yeah they really come across as being several moves ahead, like Bobby Fisher. Watching them is like watching a brilliantly choreographed sting operation.
You’re funny, Turnip.
Nobody,
We went through this in 2016. The phrase “more votes than voters” is used and interpreted a lot of different ways as far as I can tell. I think it means there is an imbalance in the number of votes cast and the number that ballot workers counted. I do not think it means more people voted in Detroit than live in Detroit. Trump used very foggy language when he said “ In Detroit, there are FAR MORE VOTES THAN PEOPLE.”
Was what he said intentionally vague/ confusing? Maybe. He made a clearer tweet about it later and it seemed to reflect my interpretation of their being more votes than voters counted by ballot workers. I don’t know. Is a count of voters to votes a standard procedure? Seems like it would be but I don’t know.
Maybe you referring to some other trump quote? I don’t know. I offered the most misleading one….
I reject the notion that I am just trying to cast doubts. It is a fact that Krebs does not know if this is this most secure election ever. It is in my mind an insane thing to say. He deserved to be fired.
Trump only fired Krebs in a tantrum. There’s no point in pretending that’s not obvious.
71% of precincts in Detroit had imbalanced books. But what Trumpanzees avoid saying is that signature books were off by only one to four from votes cast. When all added up, they amount to only about 340 votes. That is the total for the entire city of Detroit. You Trumpanzees are ridiculous. But please keep going. It’s fun watching you stumble over and over on easy shit. It’s like watching a Charlie Chaplin Keystone cop bit.
It might have pissed him off that Krebs said factually incorrect and insane things. Yes. What is your point? Do you think Krebs should have said there was no fraud and these were the most secure elections in history? He has authority. He should be making factually incorrect statements about the very thing he has perceived authority about. Just firing the guy is getting off easy.
I also have read that the canvassers were intimidated and dozed when they refused to certify Wayne county. That is a big deal. Right or wrong to withhold/delay certification there should be huge consequences for anyone who tried to force certification through intimidation or threats.
Doxed
The way you stop a coup is by fighting the coup. We need to start thinking that this may be the first time we have a transition of government by non-peaceful means. Trump’s bringing Michigan Legislative leaders to the White House is an obvious attempt the steal the election. But I believe he has more hurdles. I believe Michigan has a “faithless” elector law. In addition the State Legislature has given the Governor authority to certify the election.
The difference between competent government and grifters, are in the details. Heard today that New York State and City prosecutors are sitting on 67 warrants for Trump for Jan. 22.
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(i1ghujeqqj1yo4rip3ulixme))/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-116-1954-IV.pdf
iRobert,
That is good info about the EXTENT of the imbalances. Thank you. My main point was that when the term “more votes than voters”, as it was in 2016, I think it does not mean that there were more votes than residents. There are a lot of fact check sites that say “there were not more votes than residents”. Ok.
Again, I think Biden will be the inevitable winner. I still however 100% want us to systematically search for fraud in this election—to secure future elections. Why not?
There are many, including Trump, who have said mail-in votes are fraud.
I have heard many say mail in voting is more susceptible to fraud. Nadler said it a few years ago right?
We historically reject a certain percentage of mail-in votes. Have we rejected mail in votes at a similar rate this go around? If not, why not?
I am not trying to mount a huge argument where Trump is the winner at the end…. Sincere questions to someone who knows more about how elections work than I do.
Just curious: Did you interpret the statement “more votes than people” to mean more votes than residents? I took it to mean there was an imbalance and it is seems crazy to interpret that statement so ungenerously. A lot on the left seemed to misinterpret it that way though….To be honest I have only heard one person say more people voted in Detroit than there are residents of Detroit and that person is a child.
Maybe there’s some way Trump could use bright light or Clorox to find the fraud needed to invalidate the election.
FF: “To be honest I have only heard one person say more people voted in Detroit than there are residents of Detroit and that person is a child.”
Guiliani said it in his press conference today. He’s the president’s lawyer. That usually would suggest it the assertion is president’s official position. But we have become accustomed to you Trump apologists hiding behind the chaos. So I guess we can’t assume Trump’s lawyer, in an official press conference, can be considered to be speaking for his one and only client.
Correction:
That usually would suggest the assertion is president’s official position. But we have become accustomed to you Trump apologists hiding behind the chaos. So I guess we can’t assume Trump’s lawyer, in an official press conference, can’t be considered to be speaking for his one and only client.
We’re still operating in the bizarro world you and your friends have so kindly gifted this country.
Mail-in voting requires additional safeguards, but can be just as secure as in-person voting if all reasonable precautions are taken. That would require some minimal level of competence and authentic concern however. It’s very obvious Trump and his mindless sycophants possess bone. They have made absolutely zero effort in making voting more secure. In fact, they’ve done quite a bit to create problems rather than safeguard against them. They’re doing it now, clearly.
Are you saying our mail-in voting was intentionally less secure in 2020? Are you saying that less secure mail-in voting is why less mail-in votes were rejected in some states this election than are usually rejected?
Mail in voting is more secure than many other types of in-person voting. Most importantly, mail-in voting leaves a written record of the actual vote. Lack of a verifiable vote–ie. voter machine fraud that leaves no paper trail is impossible with mail-in votes. Two mail-in votes require more security both in how they are issued and how they are tabulated than in-person voting. Three mail-in voting is just as secure as in-person voting concerning voter signatures verification and are less likely to reverse a challenge to the vote.
Only stupid people believe that mail-in voting is more susceptible to fraud. As you all know I am a tremendously slow learner and I used to think other wise. Now after both organizing and participating in both in-person voting and mail-in voting over the course of my life it is clear that it really comes down to how the votes are counted, not how votes are made. If we had a vibrant social sphere, in-person voting, where candidates were preaching under the park pavilion while we stood in line to cast our votes at the Senior Center would be fun, but ain’t ever going to happen. And far more folks will do mail-in voting and it will help support the postal system yet more social good.
FF sounds like the GOP congressional reps and senators who can’t bear to contradict the President and so they ‘leave open’ the possibility of fraud,’ despite no evidence of it. They are grasping at straws but they will never ever criticize their leader.
Liberals would never do that shit. Last year discussions post election were lively broadranging and informed. And strongly voiced and felt.
Conservatives are just fucking zombies now. Actually Lemmings is a better analogy.
Watch: Rudy Giuliani quotes ‘My Cousin Vinny’ and hair dye runs down his face during bizarre press conference
https://finance.yahoo.com/m/05ee05bc-6e73-3474-84f1-91d139ba188c/watch-rudy-giuliani-quotes.html
Wobblie,
It is my understanding that historically mail-in votes are rejected at a higher rate than in-person votes.
Jean,
Dems tried to delegitimize Trumps presidency for 3 years with LOLRussiagatehoax. You still believe Maddow and Maynard. Hahahahaha. WTF?
Also, I think I started using the phrase “major malfunction” after watching Full Metal Jacket in the late 90’s.
FF: “Are you saying our mail-in voting was intentionally less secure in 2020?”
Trump clearly attempted to undermine the mail-in voting process, and in the middle of a pandemic. That’s sick. He also did absolutely nothing to secure mail-in ballots from any of the vulnerabilities that do exist. That demonstrates his supposed concern is all just talk.
FF: “Are you saying that less secure mail-in voting is why less mail-in votes were rejected in some states this election than are usually rejected?”
Of course I’m not saying that. That’s a stupid thing to say. There was a whole hell of a lot more attention and support given to mail-in voters in this cycle, by State election officials. Mail-in voting was explained and accommodated to a far greater degree than ever before, for obvious reasons. That was done at the state level of course. Also many more voter education groups and projects were in operation this year.
Guiliani, the president’s legal representative, said very clearly that some precincts had more votes cast than voters who live in the precinct. He didn’t identify one of these supposed precincts. Gee, that’s strange, don’t you think? What would be the reason for not giving one single specific example, do you suppose? It would take only a couple seconds to rattle off one precinct in the entire country where this supposedly happened. I guess he knows the IQ range of his boss’s supporters. He knows it wouldn’t occur to them as odd that he didn’t mention one single example of his dramatic claim.
FF– does repeating lines from the abusive drill sergeant in Full Metal Jacket signal any major malfunction? PS it came out in the 80’s.
A reminder that we had liberals here opposed to the Russia investigation. And of course the court conclusion was that there were grounds for that investigation (and the investigation itself said there were grounds) while the courts (so many of them) are saying there is none for election fraud…
What do you think about this?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/19/politics/gop-michigan-results-trump/index.html?fbclid=IwAR074No2lQqym6y6yyUw6BoMw4gPTpnxaq09iJ3raeQmLemULP8gd1YGhVM
iRobert,
I have been listening to Giuliani for an hour. I did find the spot where he said more people voted in precincts than there are people within the precinct (including children ). I agree. It sounds like BS to me.
Yeah, I saw it on video in the late 90’s for the first time.
Jean,
I think people making claims of fraud, under oath, is a kind of evidence which needs to be pursued.
The Mueller investigation itself was part of the scam. It intentionally took a long time; it’s conclusions did not match the content; the purpose of the mueller investigation was not to pass a judgment on whether or not there were legitimate reasons for opening crossfire hurricane up in the first place—***you are making that up***.
We get a first first glimpse into whether or not the investigation was legitimate from Horowitz.
iRobert,
What is the number of registered voters in Detroit? What is the number of cast votes in Detroit?
Some reading for you FF re the Horowitz report conclusions:
https://www.lawfareblog.com/thoughts-horowitz-report-part-ii-what-inspector-general-did-not-find
FF as I stated a mail-in ballot that is challenged is much less likely to result in the voter proving their identity and being allowed to vote. Mail in ballots being rejected at a slightly higher rate than in person ballots says absolutely nothing about whether the ballots are being cast fraudulently. Only that some one discovered a DEFECT on the ballot.
I would have thought a smart person like you could see the difference . You keep trying to take my job as the dolt on this site. Be a man and wait for me to die and assume my role honorably.
FF: “What is the number of registered voters in Detroit? What is the number of cast votes in Detroit?”
Detroit has approximately 500,000 registered voters. Detroit had approximately 250,138 votes cast. Is there anything else you’d like me to google for you?
FF: “I think people making claims of fraud, under oath, is a kind of evidence which needs to be pursued.”
The Trump Administration has chosen not to pursue it. The GOP has chosen not to pursue it. The US Attorney General has chosen not to pursue it. Maybe you should pursue it, FF. Tell us what you uncover. Maybe you’ll discover why Trump, his campaign, his administration, his AG, and his party have all chosen not to pursue it.
Detroit percentage of voter turnout:
2008 – 53%
2012 – 51%
2016 – 48%
2020 – 50%
From the City of Detroit elections page:
Turnout: 49.56%
Total voters: 250,138
Registered voters: 504,714
https://detroitmi.gov/webapp/election-results
iRobert,
I was trying to figure it out using the Wayne county stats. It is confusing. For the city of Detroit and only the city of Detroit they seemed to separate out all in person voting from the mail in. That’s my guess anyway. The mail in ballots seemed to be totally disconnected from the precincts. It seems like no other pricincts did that in Wayne county except for the City of Detroit. Do you know why? It appears it was not done that way in 2016 either….
Jean,
I did not read it. You could give me a thousand articles that make LOL false claims about Russia collusion. What is your point? You are a dupe. I am sure you could share lots of the articles that duped you.
Wobblie,
Assuming what you say is true about mail-in ballots then would it surprise you to see a large decrease in the rate of rejected mail-in votes in some precincts this election?
FF— the article makes no claims about Russian Collusion. It simply details what avenues Horowitz investigated that proved fruitless. It shows what there was no evidence to support. This kind of check is often inconvenient to conspiracy theorizing, so it’s understandable you would avoid it.
Since I anointed Wobblie ‘dogmatic dolt,’ I feel comfortable saying that you are a far bigger dolt than he will ever be; but less dogmatic. You, FF,are the Champion of squishy (and yet still extraordinarily self-righteous) cheap moralism.
Jean,
I was trying to say Horowitz should have been the first unavoidable CLUE for dense Maynard/Maddow types. You are also very far removed from reality. I will not read the Ben article . Sorry. I don’t have unlimitted. time. In the spirit of time management I am not going to read any books for a kindergartners either.
If you believed the earth was flat you could offer articles which “explain” the flatness of the earth. Duh.
Jean,
You offered me Benjamin Wittes in an attempt
to get me to learn about “reality”. And me refusing to read MORE of the fool is a sign to you that I am clinging to conspiracy theories.
LOL LOL LOL LOL
You are in so deep Jean. So deep. But you have no idea. It’s amazing!!!!!!!
JH, I want that title. Champion of squishy (and yet still extraordinarily self-righteous) cheap moralism. I’ve never been champion of anything. FF, why do you get all the good accolades? I will teach you dogma, as long as you continue to exhibit (so I might learn) self-righteous cheap moralism. That Extraordinarily thing, that is just so much hyperbolae.
Not as catching as dogmatic dolts, but it can be worked with.
Champion squishy is kinda cool
Cheap champion–maybe not
Squishy moralism–maybe EOS (?)
There are more permutations than I care to sort through. What is your choice FF?
I lied. I did win an Optimist Club civic poetry contest when I was maybe 10 or 11. But I didn’t write the poem (my dad who was a poet at heart) helped(!!) me compose it. I also think I might have been the only entry, I don’t remember anybody there for a 2nd. place. We had salad—I mean jello salads–it must have been the woman’s auxiliary of the Optimist Club or something. My friend Tom’s mom seemd to run things. I think I also got a $10 dollar prize. God it has been a life time since I’ve been a champion. All these high haired ladies saying how mature my poem was—now I am going to have to start going through memorabilia to see if I can find the damn thing–See what you have done JH!
Thankyou JH I think I have had a cathartic moment. In my younger years I had a penchant for the “older” ladies. You may have helped me understand why—your beneficences never ends.
the more I think about it , the more I realize I was set-up. talk about being slow witted. Now that I think about it, I think my dad and Tom’s mom may have something going on the side–we did spend a lot of time during the summer with them. She ran the program, he helped (!) write the poem. Her event was a success. My entire sex life was distorted. Connect the dots. It all makes since now.
FF,
I think all municipalities process their absentee ballots without regard to the precinct of the voters, initially. But most municipalities are then quick to have the AV results sorted by precinct and switch to posting them by precinct along side the in-person totals. Detroit may just take longer to get around to grouping the AVs by precinct and posting the results that way. That may simply be due to the much larger volumes they’re dealing with there in comparison to other municipalities. They’re quite a bit more limited in staffing and finances, and take a bit longer to do anything.
Detroit has 503 precincts and 143 Absent Voter Counting Boards. That’s a much more monumental operation than any others in the state.
Wobblie,
I think that is a story worthy of a prize. I like it.
iRobert,
Wouldn’t the verification process necessarily entail matching the absentee ballots with the registered voters in the precincts? Wouldn’t the sorting back into the precincts tallies occur automatically at the moment the vote was verified? Sincere questions. I am not sure how it works so I am making assumptions that the names, addresses, signatures are held within the precinct and the absentee precincts do the preliminary gathering, holding and counting. I realize I am making assumptions. I just find it odd and am wondering if you know.
FF: “Wouldn’t the verification process necessarily entail matching the absentee ballots with the registered voters in the precincts?”
The verification process for absentee ballots is done by matching the ballot info to a list of the registered voters in the entire city.
FF: “Wouldn’t the sorting back into the precincts tallies occur automatically at the moment the vote was verified?”
No, because that would add an unnecessary step of shuffling ballots that could lead to miss-assigned ballots (ballots put with the wrong prevents). It would also add a complication to chain of custody before the tabulation of the ballots.
Correction:
No, because that would add an unnecessary step of shuffling ballots that could lead to miss-assigned ballots (ballots put with the wrong precincts). It would also add a complication to chain of custody before the tabulation of the ballots.
After the absentee votes are tabulated, the data (results) collected will be loaded into a database where it can then be sorted in any way desired. That’s when you will see the AV totals for each precinct posted. They may have done it already.
iRobert,
If you are registered in a precinct you don’t live in are you still registered?
As long as you are not registered in a second location.
College students, for example, are often registered at their home address (their parents’ house) and not in the college town where they are living temporarily.
If a college student registers in the town where they are attending college, their registration at their parents house is deleted.
Federal authorities have a full and accurate nationwide database of every individual who votes in each election. If any individual is discovered to have managed to vote in two separate locations, they are charged with a felony and serve prison time.
But no person is registered GENERALLY in Detroit. Any verification of all ballots would entail checking to see that a ballot is attached to a person who must be registered in a specific precinct. Why would they not attach the absentee ballot to the precinct at the moment of verification? Not doing so adds a step to be completed at a later. Instead we have 150,000 absentee votes listed as belonging to zero registered voters. We only have this is Detroit. It is strange. The election was 3 weeks ago and I just checked the Wayne count website. Those 150k votes are still listed as attached to zero registered voters.
Its good to see you’re joining Turnip in the crackpottery, FF. I was worried you had become normal.
All ballots are verified to be attached to a registered voter, their full name, their address, their date of birth, their signature. Saying otherwise is John Barr Jr. and Trump level lunacy.
FF: “But no person is registered GENERALLY in Detroit.”
Obviously. Even homeless people are registered at an address. There are no registrations which do not have an address.
FF: “Any verification of all ballots would entail checking to see that a ballot is attached to a person who must be registered in a specific precinct.”
Obviously.
FF: “Why would they not attach the absentee ballot to the precinct at the moment of verification?”
They do, in a sense. That absentee ballot becomes associated with its particular precinct, but not physically moved to a pile of other ballots from that precinct.
FF: “Not doing so adds a step to be completed at a later.”
Maybe I didn’t explain well. And I’m not sure I want to keep trying. You’ve seen how much time I can waste trying to explain something simple to Turnip.
FF: “Instead we have 150,000 absentee votes listed as belonging to zero registered voters.”
That’s a misrepresentation. All absentee ballots indicate which precinct they are from. They are requested and a precinct-specific ballot is nailed to the absent voter’s address of registration. All this is verified along the way.
FF: “We only have this is Detroit.”
Detroit is the only municipality in Wayne County that is like this. However, it is certainly not the only municipality in the state that is.
FF: “It is strange. The election was 3 weeks ago and I just checked the Wayne count website. Those 150k votes are still listed as attached to zero registered voters.”
That’s false. Every ballot was verified to be attached to a specific valid registered voter. This was done by a minimum of two observers on the verification of each and every ballot. A count for each batch and each precinct is kept and verified by multiple individuals representing both political parties.
Squishy Champion, some rich ass-hole came up with the money to get your bud Kyle out on bail. I have got yet another reason to never by anything from My Pillow Guy.
I don’t know how they dealt with absentee votes this year, but in prior years in Yypsi–and I think ballots cast before election day (we have same day registration and voting now) this year are distributed to the precincts and on election day,(usually before the polls open) the absentee ballots for that precinct are ran through the tabulation machine. That is why if you are an early voter their are frequently votes already cast (you can look at the machine and see how many ballots have been fed through the machine before you vote.) The verification of the voter, is done the same way an in-person ballot is verified. It is only those who can’t get their head around losing who can’t understand how our elections are conducted.
iRobert-I do not think the Federal authorities have a full and accurate nationwide database of every individual who votes in each election. Elections are not conducted by any Federal Agency. All elections are conducted by State authorities or those whom the state delegates (ie. local and county officials). It is the lack of a centralized registry of voters that have created the conditions for Republican and death cult allies to engage in voter purges. I really recommend you read and listen to some folks who are much smarter about these matters than I could ever hope to be–my go to guy is Greg Palast. He and his organization have done more to stop disenfranchisement than most anyone else.
It is true that those 150k votes are not LISTED as attached to registered voters. It is also true that I find it strange.
I see your point about verification happening on the front end of receiving a ballot. My assumption was that the absentee ballots were sent out by the absentee ballot boards which are separated from the voting precincts. It sounds like you are saying that my assumption is a misassumption.
Wobblie: “iRobert-I do not think the Federal authorities have a full and accurate nationwide database of every individual who votes in each election.”
They do, and you will see a number (though small) of people charged by the feds with voting in two different states. It doesn’t happen until several months after the election each cycle.
Wobblie: “Elections are not conducted by any Federal Agency. All elections are conducted by State authorities or those whom the state delegates (ie. local and county officials).”
Duh. Did you think I wasn’t aware of that? Do I look like Turnip to you?
Federal voting laws are enforced by federal agencies, regardless of the obvious and irrelevant fact that elections are conducted by states and municipalities. Federal agencies actively gather all relevant information to enforce federal election law.
Wobblie: “It is the lack of a centralized registry of voters that have created the conditions for Republican and death cult allies to engage in voter purges. I really recommend you read and listen to some folks who are much smarter about these matters than I could ever hope to be–my go to guy is Greg Palast. He and his organization have done more to stop disenfranchisement than most anyone else.”
Thanks for the advice for dummies, I’ll pass it on to Turnip.
FF: “It is true that those 150k votes are not LISTED as attached to registered voters.”
150k names and addresses are available at the clerks office. Go get a copy, jackass.
FF: “It is also true that I find it strange.”
You’re extremely selective in what you find strange, and that dramatic imbalance is far more strange. Do you still find Trump’s performance as president “good?”
iRobert, thanks for straightening me out. Which Federal Agency has this list, and what is its role in conducting elections?
Did you expect the Wayne County and Detroit municipality’s websites to post the list of every 2020 voter and their bonafides? You can go to the clerks office and purchase a list. You’ll probably have to pay $1 per page.
It is not the Federal Election Commission, from their web site,
The FEC has compiled the following information about elections and voting. The FEC administers federal campaign finance laws; however, it has no jurisdiction over the laws relating to voting, voter fraud and intimidation, election results or the Electoral College.
US.gov/voting seems to imply that fraud is a result of citizen complaints rather than the result of any form of pro-active Federal involvment.
https://www.usa.gov/voting-laws
iRobert please help out us stupid low information folks. My limited computer skills gets me no where close to whom has this centralized list.
iRobert this is fun. I just discovered that you can vote in North Dakota without registering to vote. If I live long enough, I can vote in Ohio (absentee) and then cruise over to Bismark and cast a ballot. Some places will do anything to make it easy to move in.
Wobblie: “iRobert, thanks for straightening me out. Which Federal Agency has this list, and what is its role in conducting elections?”
The Federal Elections Commission will be gathering the lists over the next few months. All of the data will be merged into one giant database of who’s voted in this particular election, as they do with every major election. Software will filter through all of it and flag possible instances of any individual voting in more than one instance or location. Human eyes will then look further into the information on those flagged individuals and instances. Any which are determined to be incidents of fraud will be referred to the FBI and federal prosecutors for enforcement action. Dipshits who thought it was cute or clever of them to vote in two different states will soon find out the penalties are far beyond what their small minds expected. They will either be spending time in prison, paying large penalties, or both. They’re also usually put on probation and outed as vote fraudsters in their local news. I’m hoping Turnip tried to pull something. He has the right combination of arrogance and stupidity to have tried.
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF11285
The FEC doesn’t enforce laws with regard to voting, but they certainly provide the FBI with any evidence of impropriety. The way I described it may not be exactly accurate. It may be the FBI that actually accesses the data and does the analyzing for potential fraud. But I don’t think so. I think the FEC simply refers any irregularities they encounter to the FBI and the FBI does all the follow up.
iRobert, the FEC disclaims doing what you think they do. The link I just posted from the Congressional Research Service only talks about State level Centralized Voter Registration list. I don’t think you have all the details down correctly. Unless the law was changed post August 2019, I think you might be confused. I didn’t just fall off the truck, and this ain’t my first rodeo either.
I think we should all be like North Dakota. Democracy for all.
…and or federal attorney’s offices.
Anyway, I do appreciate the extensive reading material your linked. I think I’m way too sloppy in attempting to explain things here. I don’t even take the trouble to read through my comments before I post them. I rattle shit off here and don’t bother much to make sure it makes sense. I apologize for any addition confusion I cause.
Every government entity refers instances of possible illegality to the FBI and/or federal attorneys offices. That includes state elections officials and the FEC. The FEC does collect and compile all election data, and that includes data on every person who voted. They obviously do not want to be perceived as an enforcement agency. They don’t want to give the impression that voting brings legal attention to a citizen. But they certainly do refer any apparent illegality to the appropriate authorities.
I didn’t say the FEC maintains a central voter list. I said they document every election, including the collection and compiling of a database of everyone who voted in each major election. That database exposes individuals attempting to vote in more than one state. How else do you think those incidents would be exposed?
iRobert, I recommend you visit the FEC web site. The FEC’s jurisdiction seems to be pretty well defined, and it has to do with Federal Election finance laws. You can report alleged fraud to them, and they will forward it to a Federal investigative agency (DOJ, US Attorney, FBI). I do not believe that the FEC does, engage in collection and compiling of a database of everyone who voted in each major election. That database exposes individuals attempting to vote in more than one state. If you look at the CRS article I posted, it seems pretty clear that there is no centralized data of voters beyond what states keep–and North Dakota saves untold amounts of money by not bothering with that list. I guess if you only have about 400000 voters record keeping is not so important. I mean if everyone votes two or three times, who would care?
Again, Wobblie, there’s is no national registered voter database, but the federal government does collect the lists of who votes in each major election. I do still believe it is the FEC that collects it, but it may be done through a different agency. If they didn’t, everyone who has vacation homes in other states could register in both states where they have homes. How else do you think that is safeguarded against?
I will see if I can find the exact process by which the federal government collects the national voter data on each election, and get back to you.
I may even drop by the Detroit clerks office and get some photos of the printouts of everyone who voted in the city.
I guess it’s the Census Bureau that collects the data every two years following each federal general election through its Voting and Registration Supplement to the Current Population Survey (CPS). I thought it was the FEC collecting it. I wonder if it used to be. I’ll have to check further.
iRobert,
Why are you being hostile? I am not expecting to see a list of the names and addresses of voters that would be of no use for me because I am not capable of processing that info. I am saying 150k absentee votes, in Detroit, are not LISTED (Wayne county website) as votes occurring within the individual precincts—unlike all other cities in Wayne county which have completed lists.
I thought I was clear that your explanations for what I took to be strange were making sense to me. Again, I am asking you questions in the hopes that you can answer my questions.
Apparently it’s the Electronic Registration Information Center program which is used to detect double-voting. Currently, 25 states and the District of Columbia are enrolled in the program, which allows states to compare voter registration information.
I’m hostile because Wobblie was right and I assume wrong. It isn’t the FEC collecting voter data from states. It’s done through programs like the one Electronic Registration Information Center has, through which states voluntarily share voter data.
I’m getting old I guess.
Correction:
I’m hostile because Wobblie was right and I was wrong.
https://www.gregpalast.com/
I’ve been looking through the results on the Detroit elections website.
https://detroitmi.gov/webapp/election-results
I thought I had read there were 143 absentee batches, but it looks like it was 134.
Trump skipped a G20 summit on the pandemic. He went golfing again. COVID-19 is now killing one American every 60 seconds.