Thankfully, while the President of the United Stated is focused on getting his co-conspirators out of jail, we have a Governor in Michigan that’s putting the health and safety of our people first

Gretchen Whitmer joins the governors of Kansas, Maine, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Washington in making mask-wearing mandatory.

Today, as Donald “the most innocent man in the history of the United States” Trump was commuting the sentence of convicted criminal Roger Stone, our Governor, Gretchen Whitmer, was focused on the health and safety of her constituents, signing into law executive order 2020-147, which “reiterates that individuals are required to wear a face covering whenever they are in an indoor public space… requires the use of face coverings in crowded outdoor spaces… (and) requires any business that is open to the public to refuse entry or service to people who refuse to wear a face covering, with limited exceptions.”

Talking about the executive order on Twitter today, Whitmer said, “The heroes on the front lines of this crisis have gone hours without taking their masks off every day – doctors, nurses, child care workers, grocery store workers. We owe it to them to wear our masks when we’re on a trip to the grocery store or pharmacy. By wearing masks, we can save lives and protect our family, friends, and neighbors from the spread of COVID-19. And by wearing masks now, we can put our state in a stronger position so our kids can return to school safely in the fall.”

[note: The White House, which has been pushing for America’s children to return to school in spite of rising COVID-19 rates, agued today that Stone had to be released because he’d be at “medical risk” in prison due to the pandemic. Apparently we value the lives and safety of those who lie to federal agents more than we do our teachers and our children.]

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  1. Demetrius
    Posted July 10, 2020 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

    Given the lack of a coherent national strategy, kudos to Whitmer for joining her peers in other states to enact this sensible standard.

    Let’s hope this action will provide a practical (legal) backstop for businesses, many of which have been struggling to enforce compliance amid a vocal minority which stubbornly refuses to practice common sense, let alone respect the health and safety of their fellow citizens.

    As I have said already on a number of other related threads – wearing a mask when in close proximity to others is such a small gesture … yet one that may very well help to protect our elderly friends and neighbors, and those at higher risk because of underlying conditions. Even if (as some argue) the potential benefit is very small, why not do it, just in case?

  2. Hyvborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2020 at 9:40 am | Permalink

    Where is the OBEY THE GIANT guy now that we need him? OBEY THE GOVERNOR with Whitmer’s giant face.

  3. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 11, 2020 at 9:44 am | Permalink


  4. Wobblie
    Posted July 11, 2020 at 9:46 am | Permalink

    Aloha, expect these kind of stories to become daily news. MAGA

  5. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 11, 2020 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    I choose to wear a mask in public enclosed spaces. I choose to not buy food from places where employees are not 100% masked up. I encourage the people I know to choose to wear a mask. I think making it a law is problematic though.

    I was in a small market and there was a non masker breathing heavy and coughing behind me in line. I told my companion to leave the store and I left the line and waited in the corner of the market away from the person until that person exited the store. I proceeded to checkout with my items.

    I suspect legalizing it is going to create a lot of confrontations. Ultimately it is best to leave it as a choice, imo.

  6. Lynne
    Posted July 11, 2020 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    It really sucks that we don’t have a national approach. It would be one thing if we allowed states to have some kind of border cotrol but alas, states are forbidden from preventing people from other states from coming in. The best they can do is have quarantine requirements for anyone entering but those are difficult to enforce. So even though our governor is handling things well, we are likely to continue to have people bringing it in from less restrictive states. Our president has failed us.

    The corruption is bad too but Trump has blood on his hands.

    Posted July 11, 2020 at 10:00 am | Permalink

    I will pose the question again: is there a single community that has been hit hard and has had a second wave? If not, what does that suggest?

  8. Anonymous
    Posted July 11, 2020 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    Is that a real or rhetorical question? Is that your real email? Can I send my response there?

  9. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 11, 2020 at 2:06 pm | Permalink


    You have presented yourself as someone who has a better than average understanding of the virus. That is great! Be a resource!

    If you have a good response to the question, which expands understanding, then you should respond, as f it is not too big of a burden on you. If you can easily dismiss the question as misguided/dumb then you should give your reasons for dismissing the question. Respond in the spirit of expanding understanding about something we have all been trying to think through—by all means—please. I would almost suggest you have a degree of responsibility to give a response if you are a health professional and if it is not a burden on you. Who cares if you respond to both places? Why does it matter? Non response is not helpful. An un-reasoned dismissal of the question is not helpful either.

  10. Wobblie
    Posted July 11, 2020 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, Sidetrack temporary closing Because staff member positive test who had been asymptomatic prior to July 9.

  11. Anonymous
    Posted July 11, 2020 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    I am in general support of policy decisions made with scientific input from public health and infectious disease experts, whether in our country or elsewhere. I find it interesting and somewhat problematic and disingenuous that you wish me, as an anonymous poster, both more credible and obligated to inform your decisions about how to respond to this crisis rather than people that are expert in this area who are officially charged with exactly that task. I think you are bored like many of us in this and just looking for an argument for argument’s sake. I’m going to make myself another mojito.

  12. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 11, 2020 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

    Anonymous Bored Vague Guy,

    I am not asking you for personal guidance of how to act. I have followed guidelines at all times. I am not advocating for people to be less cautious. The opposite actually. Read above statements I made here. I very much go along with what our leader requests we do.

    I am speculating on a hypothesis. The hypothesis is that 1) if there are no examples of a community getting hit hard and then having a second wave; and 2) if reinfection is very rare; then what might that suggest. 1 & 2 might not even be correct. Attack it if you want. Please do. It might also be 1& 2 are true but that it does not actually suggest anything interesting. I don’t know that is why I am throwing my thoughts out there. Point that out 1&2 add up to nothing by giving reasons if you want to, please. Or continue to be vague and dismissive if you want….I am not bored. Maybe you are? I am not.

    Just trying to figure things out. Sorry.

  13. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 11, 2020 at 4:35 pm | Permalink


    I also see your point that if you are a health professional it would be irresponsible for you to speculate wildly in a way that might influence bad behavior. So I was wrong to suggest otherwise. On the other hand, I don’t know why you always feel the need to respond with your typical non-answers/ pretend explanations. Remember in the beginning when I was looking at the numbers thinking MI was going to be hit hard because of a very bad positive/negative test ratio? Remember how you sorta kinda pretended to explain my concerns away based upon your suppositions? Do you remember how your explaining away of concerns did not really hold up too well?

  14. Wobblie
    Posted July 11, 2020 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    Aloha FF you are still in the wrong paradigm. It is not like a flu or influenza so the “wave” analogy will not work.
    Think forest fire, if you dont smoother the flames , they will find new kindling and start the fire spreading again. The death cult are like mountain gales blowing the flames onto new timber.
    Waves are a creation of human effort, it is not a “natural” phenomenon but a direct result of containment efforts. Michigan had created a wave shape, but are now heading back up. South of the Ohio river there has been next to mo real containment, now it is burning out of control.
    Hong Kong is suspending schools after 3 days of rising cases.

  15. Wobblie
    Posted July 12, 2020 at 8:09 am | Permalink

    Aloha UCSF has put together a good series on what we know about the virus.

  16. Wobblie
    Posted July 12, 2020 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    Aloha plenty of kindling in congested work places.

  17. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 12, 2020 at 10:42 am | Permalink


    LA after protests was actually a piece of evidence I was tracking to test if the way most of us are thinking about this is wrong. I was curious what cities would see a huge bump after the protests. The already decimated communities did not see a bump as far as I can tell. The not yet hit saw a bump like LA.

    I like your kindling analogy better actually for the way I am thinking/speculating about the virus.

    According to the way everybody is thinking about the virus there is obviously a lot of kindling everywhere. So there should be nothing stopping the virus from re-igniting in areas already hit. Especially in a place like Great Brittain that reoppened. Detroit and NUC should have exploded again after protests I think.

  18. iRobert
    Posted July 12, 2020 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    There may be seasonal factors other than the amount of time people spend gathered closely in groups.

  19. Wobblie
    Posted July 12, 2020 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

    Aloha FF, travelers returning from virus infected countries has been a prime route of transportation for the virus. China has has several hotspots they have had to smoother, both most likely transmissions from Russia and Iran. The Canadian Atlantic Bubble ( an inner provincial zone—travel between most provinces are restricted) 42 days without an infection, was recently pierced by a Canadian returning from the US. Some of the California numbers are being fueled by Americans returning from Mexico for treatment in US (border was recently opened in Baja).
    Both the UK and Sweden (along with US) are excluded from EU.
    How about how Florida is doing. MAGA

  20. Wobblie
    Posted July 12, 2020 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

    Aloha FF you might be interested in how the virus traveled from the US back to China and caused a super spreader event in an elevator.

  21. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 12, 2020 at 8:05 pm | Permalink

    I refuse to use any info coming out of China as a reference. Sorry. However, the Harpers/ Grosse pointe super spreading event would seem to be a piece of evidence against my idea that communities that have been hit hard are significantly less vulnerable.

  22. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 12, 2020 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

    I thought the Swedes could travel within EU but a no. Swedish person could not travel to EU via Sweden. My understanding is that Sweden has stabilized.

  23. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 12, 2020 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

    New tests in Florida over past 3 days=200k.

    Florida has a long way to go before they have a comparable amount of deaths as MI.

  24. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 12, 2020 at 8:25 pm | Permalink


    I split time between liberal Ann Arbor and a more suburban conservative area. People in the conservative area are being similarly responsible with the mask wearing. Home Depot today in the conservative area had 90% of the customers wearing masks. It’s compatible to what I have seen here.

  25. Wobblie
    Posted July 12, 2020 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

    Aloha FF it is that kind of zenophobia which created this catastrophe. Good to know you are incapable of learning from mistakes (OurLansing bar Super spreader event was quit predictable). . How about that Abott down in Texas? He seems a man like you, incapable of learning from others.

  26. Jean Henry
    Posted July 12, 2020 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

    In the working class enclave of Whitmore Lake which is 1/2 conservative although predominantly conservative in its longstanding community culture about half don’t wear masks even indoors. I’m gonna let you guess what political stripe they are. Statistics show it’s conservatives not taking this disease seriously. 1/3 believe it wis a hoax.
    Most of the clerks in the local grocery store are unmasked, as was the owner/butcher. I was shown the door by another customer for asking why they were unmasked (the clerks, not the customers) . “You don’t like it? Then leave.” So I did. He added a nice ‘idiot’ as I tased him but at least he didn’t;t spit on me.

    Oh BTW I was told that EO’s are not the law because the legislature didn’t pass them, so they are under no obligation to follow the EO’s. I replied awesome, “Then I guess ICE will be releasing those detainees any day now, right?”

    Florida is fucked. And the death toll will rise. What knots will you twist yourself into then FF to prove that Whitmer is worse than other conservative governors at managing the pandemic?

  27. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 12, 2020 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

    It’s not zenophobia. The Chinese Communist Government is full of shit. Pretending like it is zenophobia is the equivalent of me saying you support the oppressive communist Chinese government in their violations against human rights. Just shut up with that garbage, man.

  28. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 12, 2020 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    It’s not hard to see Florida has done better than MI and NY. It is obvious for anyone who cares to look. 200k new tests in the last 3 days in FL. Still have death in the 4K range. It’s obvious. It’s obvious. It’s obvious. Look at the deaths per million in FL, NY, and MI It’s not even close. They have a long way to go before it is close. Think!!!!!!

  29. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 12, 2020 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

    Is that the same grocery store where you sneezed mucous all over the refrigerator glass :)

  30. iRobert
    Posted July 12, 2020 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

    The Chinese people are great, Wobblie. The Chinese government, however, lies about everything. They even lie about things which there seems to be no reason to lie about.

    FF, Florida is doing better than New York or Michigan did months ago for a number of reasons. Florida has had much more forewarning and the vulnerable populations were not sitting ducks caught by surprise. Also, Florida in July is not anything like Michigan or New York are in April. School was in session in Nee York and Michigan in April. Cold weather kept people indoors, often in shared public indoor space. The hot weather in Florida does drive people indoors, but many have known to avoid shared public indoor space. Still, Florida now has a far higher daily death average than Michigan, though its only a little better than that of New York. However, Florida’s death rate is rising faster.

  31. iRobert
    Posted July 12, 2020 at 9:34 pm | Permalink

    Florida’s current count of deaths over the last 24 hours is 45. New York is at 11. Michigan’s is 1.

    Here is the 7-Day moving average of daily US deaths:
    July 4th: 518 (-37)
    July 5th: 516 (-2)
    July 6th: 517 (+1)
    July 7th: 556 (+39)
    July 8th: 585 (+29)
    July 9th: 625 (+40)
    July 10th: 657 (+32)
    July 11th: 723 (+66)

  32. Posted July 12, 2020 at 9:36 pm | Permalink

    I started a new Florida thread. Please consider moving this over.

  33. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 12, 2020 at 10:01 pm | Permalink

    I predict FL will have a huge surge of cases. And FL will close the gap in deaths between themselves and MI. Why? The virus has not gone through their population yet. We knew it was killing the elderly when we looked at Italy. We were 3 weeks behind Italy in the beginning. There was a point in late April and early May where FL was 3 weeks behind MI. The lag grew. Now they will get hammered. I bet DeSantis will outperform Whitmer in terms of death totals adjusted for population and age demographics. We’ll see.

  34. iRobert
    Posted July 12, 2020 at 10:13 pm | Permalink

    FF: “I bet DeSantis will outperform Whitmer in terms of death totals adjusted for population and age demographics. We’ll see.”

    I’ll take that bet. I predict Florida has more deaths in Autumn than any other state. DeSantis is possibly the dumbest, dickiest, asshole ever elected governor of Florida. He is in a no-win situation, and he will handle it very poorly.

  35. iRobert
    Posted July 12, 2020 at 10:17 pm | Permalink

    …and what is with DeSantis‘ tiny head? He looks like Beetlejuice in that scene where he offends the witch-doctor.

  36. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 12, 2020 at 11:34 pm | Permalink


    I hate to bet about people living/ dying but I will predict Florida will stay lower than MI numbers when adjusted for Pop and age demographic. If you accept my math the. for Florida to break even with MI they will have 2.5X the death as MI. Less than 2.5 x and Florida will have done better than MI…. We will see.

  37. iRobert
    Posted July 13, 2020 at 6:21 am | Permalink

    Michigan was one of the first states to experience a big outbreak before anyone was doing anything to mitigate spread. That factor has proven to be one of the most significant in countries around the world.

    Florida has had the benefit of months to prepare and head off the sort of spread the state’s hit earlier did not have. The DeSantis administration has also been making an effort to suppress the totals of COVID-19 related deaths by pushing alternative cause-of-death in cases.

    At the moment, Michigan has had 632 deaths per million population. Florida has had 198 deaths per million.

    I agree that betting on this would be a bit too morbid, so let’s just watch and see where these numbers go.

  38. Posted July 13, 2020 at 6:37 am | Permalink

    More importantly, FF, can you tell me how much smaller DeSantis’ head is than the average Floridian’s and why? Also, is it getting smaller?

    In the sprit of Trumpanzee politics, maybe we should refer to him as Governor Beetlejuice from now on.

  39. Wobblie
    Posted July 13, 2020 at 7:04 am | Permalink

    Aloha FF Given your math Arizona is leading the nation. Florida will soon outstrip them and catch NY (which only had one reported deaths). The 15000 cases in Florida will be left in the dust. The infections they are finding today were exposed before the 4th. The holiday weekend infections are just now showing up.

  40. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 13, 2020 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    Wobblie please don’t talk about “my math” or “my anything”. I welcome your input but please don’t ever try to interpret things I say and try to represent those things. I simply don’t have time to clean up all of your misapprehensions.

    My understanding is that if a person dies of Covid they die on average 18 days after they became infected. To make this easy let’s just assume everyone tested positive on the same day the contracted covid.

    Florida is currently at 4.3k deaths and 18 days prior they had 109k cases.

    18 days prior to Michigan having 4,3k deaths Michigan had 30k cases.

    (There is zero doubt Covid is spreading through FL in a way that it was not when MI and NY were getting hammered.)

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