Today, for some inexplicable reason, Donald Trump decided to lash out at Joe Biden for his handling of the H1N1 virus. “Biden got failing grades and polls on his clueless handling of the Swine Flu H1N1,” our comically cocksure President tweeted. “It was a total disaster, they had no idea what they were doing.“
If I were in Trump’s shoes, I wouldn’t be welcoming the comparison. Since he brought it up, though, here are the facts. In 2009, H1N1 took the lives of 12,469 Americans. And, as of today, under the watch of Donald Trump, we have 120,688 dead. That’s about 10x as many, and COVID-19 is still spreading quickly in states like Texas, Florida and Oklahoma, where Donald Trump, by the way, will be holding a mask-optional rally this Saturday, over the objections of Tulsa City-County Health Department Director Bruce Dart… Here, for those of you who appreciate facts, is how the Trump administration’s response to COVID-19 looks as of right now in comparison to several other countries.
So, yes, by all means, tell us again, Mr. President, about what a “total disaster” Biden’s H1N1 response was.
While we’re on the subject of Trump’s uncoordinated, inept and completely ineffective public health response to COVID-19, it’s worth noting once again that it didn’t have to be this way. Donald Trump was left a pandemic playbook by the Obama administration, which he ignored. He disbanded the pandemic response team within the National Security Council that had been established in the aftermath of H1N1. And he shut down the Predict program, whose missions was the “detection and discovery of zoonotic diseases at the wildlife-human interface.” [According to Senator Chris Murphy, Predict, which had been “actively working in China” at the time that it was shut down by Trump, “had found 1,200 viruses (and 160 coronaviruses) in 10 years.”] Perhaps most importantly of all, though, Donald Trump decided to play games with people’s lives by encouraging his supporters to “liberate” their states from leaders enacting public health-informed policies on social distancing, and politicizing the wearing of masks, leading to shit like this.
Nine Texas mayors — including those in Houston, Dallas, Austin and San Antonio — want to require masks in close public spaces, after the governor issued an executive order banning them from doing so https://t.co/KtrgFC87eD
— CNN (@CNN) June 18, 2020
That’s right. The Governor of Texas issued an executive order banning the Mayors in his state from requiring masks to be worn in close public spaces… this, while the cases in his state continue to rise.
Meanwhile, in the real, fact-based world.
Study by two Texas and two California universities suggests face masks may be the key to bending Covid curve down. https://t.co/veOKJxkB0s
— David Luhnow (@davidluhnow) June 17, 2020
59 Comments
Aloha, the Trump White House sounds very much like the Führer bunker, I am sure none of the bootlicking sycophants who now surround the Leader will tell him that the Trump virus killed another 725 of his subjects today, and infected another 23000+.
The good news is there is only about 2000 active Trump virus cases in Oklahoma, so there is probably plenty of room in the hospitals for the post rally surge in cases. I wonder if you are infected by a Trump rally attendee, can you sue the Trump campaign? They obviously feel the need to have attendees sign waivers, how does that protect the campaign from law suits brought by secondarily infected folks?
“Here, by the way, is how the Trump administration’s response looks as of right now in comparison to several other countries.”—ColuMbo
No. USA is big and spread out. Different states are peaking at different times in the USA. That accounts for the “rise and plateau” image rather than the preferable “bell shaped” image. If you put all of the smaller European countries together on one graph you would get a MORE similar rise and plateau image. Likewise, if you graph out individual states that were hit early you get a similar “bell shape” image. Germany has done great by all accounts. Adjusted for population most of the large European countries are having similar results as the USA. Your attempt to portray the US response as some kind of outlying failure is just not true. Birx said our COVID death numbers might be inflated by 25%.
For a person self professed to be ignorant about health and science, you sure seem confident about your expertise.
Well correct me where you think I am wrong, Anonymous. It’s obvious that Germany did a great job compared to us. It is also obvious that using graphs of separate, smaller, European countries, which are all on a different timelines, is an absolutely horrible way to gauge how “America looks right now compared to other countries”, as Mark suggested. Yes or no?
Combining GB, Italy, and Spain together, and adjusting for the fact that their outbreaks were ahead of us in time would result in the Graphs of those countries to MORE resemble the graph which combines all of the states of the USA. Yes or no?
Educate me.
Did you ever watch Schoolhouse Rock? There are multiple episodes about something called a “federal” government that binds all the individual states together into one nation. I don’t think that applies to GB, Italy, and Spain.
I know there was some armed debate about it back in the late 1800’s, but I was under the impression that it was settled. I guess I must be wrong.
Educate me.
It does not require an expertise in health to know that Mark’s suggestion was BS or at minimum highly misleading. It requires a brain and about 30 seconds to think through it. Yes or no? Maynard runs a propaganda website. His propaganda is in service to one one of the world’s most powerful organizations.
Dude, that is a childish response. I thought I was talking to the Anonymous that posts here—who actually has some science and health expertise. I was absolutely serious when I said “correct me where I am wrong” and “educate me”.
You get zero points from me for being cute and clever. Be honest. Be truthful. We can go from there.
Not getting points from you makes me feel as bad as not getting food poisoning. Stop being such a reactionary dotard. Then we can go from there.
Defend Maynard against my suggestion that his use of the graphs is obviously highly misleading—if you want. Go for it. Please do.
Here are some hashtag suggestions for you Anonymous:
#defenddotard
#itsjustpropaganda
#stopreactingtomisleadingpropaganda
#justacceptstuffevenifitisobvioislynotreflectiveofreality
Mark, Frosted Flakes seems to want to imply that you are getting Soros paychecks. I thought you were going to cut me in on those? Anyway, FF, I take your point on aggregating the Covid Response Graphs. So, if we compare states to similar sized countries, I think we would find that states and countries that took mitigation strategies seriously have similar bell shaped curves, and states that have not and will not show the spikes. A third category would be states that follow Dear Leader’s ukase that testing leads to cases so don’t test and don’t worry (Mississippi, Alabama)
…ofreality
I’m pretty sure if you read your responses above you will find that you are actually the one who is guilty of being reactionary—INSTEAD OF SIMPLY ATTACKING MY TRUTH CLAIMS DIRECTLY. Just attack my truth claims where you think I am wrong. Why all of these perimeter attacks that ALSO mirror my phrasing and word choice?
I don’t know what motivates Mark to run a propaganda website. Maybe the DNC has Kompromat on him? Who knows?
“I don’t know what motivates Mark to run a propaganda website. Maybe the DNC has Kompromat on him? Who knows?”
I could not have said it any better myself.
Aloha FF, you might find this website useful to understand comparisons between countries. Has numerous well presented graphs. Maybe you can explain them to HW.
https://informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/covid-19-coronavirus-infographic-datapack/
FF, as you objected to the graphic above showing how the US compared with individual countries, here’s how we compare against the entire EU. Is that better?
No Mark. That is not better if you want us to believe you are conveying something conclusively meaningful about how the US response compares to other countries. Germany has obviously done better. 135k reported COVID deaths in Italy, Spain, France, and GB alone. What about the other 24 countries? It’s complicated. There are moving parts. Timing is a factor. Reporting standards are a factor. Testing rates are a factor. Stop putting up simple little snapshots and then pretending that you are conveying an overarching truth. It is BS and you should know better. Adding an additional layer of BS does not help your case at all.
Aloha FF, we know that Italy, Spain, France and most particularly the UK were following our Leader. If you bothered to look at case fatality rates you can see that their health care systems were overwhelmed (China has a 5.4 case fatality rate and the US 5.5) once those European countries jettisoned the Leaders strategy they dramatically changed the trajectory of their epidemics. Florida, Texas and Arizona are about to see what it was like in Northern Italy back in March–MAGA
Michigan is not similar to Italy?
Aloha FF, the difference of a case fatality rate of 9% vs. 16%. Both will presumably continue to fall some over time. The rate of infection in Italy in currently much lower than Michigan, which is falling. No where in the EU is the rate of infection increasing, unlike areas of the US. Brazil is a much better comparison. I did see where the German’s had to shut down a meat processing plant because it had become a virus hot spot.
https://www.newsweek.com/multiple-florida-hospitals-run-out-icu-beds-coronavirus-cases-spike-1511934?fbclid=IwAR12n8JG_56vW8JGuTGDeSAvWtNWUMkANgm4ogMq0OWSNtxffgmjbfct9so
FF, I’m trying to understand your point here. I really am. At the heart of your argument, at you saying that comparisons when it comes to Coronavirus are meaningless, as every country is different, and that you would accept no argument that sought to compare out response hear to responses elsewhere? Is that true? Are you saying that there is no way to definitively say that the United States handled this outbreak better or worse than any other nation?
Also, the CDC predicts US death toll could reach 145,000 by July 11.
http://hill.cm/awabEOi
I already said TWICE (!) that it was obvious that Germany had a much more effective response so what does that tell you? Answer your own questions , genius. (I don’t think your questions are sincere at all.)
Maynard did not provide an argument. He provided a snapshot and a conclusion. It was BS on his part or just the result of deep stupidity. Take your pick. Your pretending, just now, to be trying to discover whether or not I think two countries can be compared is fucking lame. Fuck off with that lame-pretending-to-be-sincere crap.
Has there been an answer yet about the hardest hit states sending patients to nursing homes?
FWIW, I was sincere in my question, and now we know that, according to you, it was “obvious that Germany had a much more effective response” than Trump. That’s a good starting place. Why do you find Germany a meaningful comparison and not other countries? I’m genuinely trying to understand.
No answer. So again you try to blame dem fuckery on the President. What in the fuck are they doing? Trying to rack up as many deaths as possible? For what other reason would they send sick people exactly where the most susceptible people are?
Aloha, the death cult is flailing away. Today Florida 3200 new cases , 86000 total. 3000+ deaths 43 today. No reported recovered. Michigan today 225 new cases 67000 total 45000 recovered. 26 new deaths 6000 + total. Whither understands the consequences of opening to quickly—/the Trump death cult knows chaos is there only hope. Desperation will bred desperate actions.
“What in the fuck are they doing? Trying to rack up as many deaths as possible? For what other reason would they send sick people exactly where the most susceptible people are?”
Were you wondering what this was about? HW, our local Q member, is suggesting that Democrats are putting old people in Covid-infected nursing homes to kill them, thereby driving up the Covid death number and making the president look bad.
To be fair, I have met Mark a few times, and he does come across as an agent of SPECTRE…maybe even an assassin sexbot.
Aloha, the Leader is likely to become completely unhinged tonight. His attempt to fire Breman has completely backfired. He will soon be compelled to disclose his personal finances at that pint only the racist will continue to support him.
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/june-19-2020?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjo4MDE1MzEzLCJwb3N0X2lkIjo1NzA4NzcsIl8iOiJlZ0RoTSIsImlhdCI6MTU5MjY0ODc5NywiZXhwIjoxNTkyNjUyMzk3LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMjA1MzMiLCJzdWIiOiJwb3N0LXJlYWN0aW9uIn0.e3SmjEGx6BKvIWloL222S5T_L8ovUFMfhg5jons7HQY&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share
HW, that “sending patients to nursing homes” thing was about requiring nursing homes to have something in place for COVID patients released from the hospital. There was no requirement that COVID positive patients be sent there.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/05/21/whitmer-order-nursing-homes-care-facilities-pandemic/5234163002/
Sometimes the reason people don’t respond to you is that what you say is so far out there that there is hardly a point to put in the effort to fact check it. You are wrong most of the time too. Let’s just assume from now on that everything you say is wrong unless you have *good* sources to cite in order to back it up?
“There was no requirement that COVID positive patients be sent there.”
How did they get there then? The young man from Ypsi arrested for abuse of elderly patients had no business in a nursing home in the first place. You can’t gaslight me, dumbass. You don’t have the brains.
Admit you are a liar and a gaslighting moron:
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/editorials/2020/05/20/editorial-whitmer-order-endangers-nursing-homes-end-now/5220929002/
“In mid-April Whitmer issued an executive order that ultimately instructed many of the state’s nursing homes to accept COVID-19 patients. That put other residents in jeopardy, and may well have contributed to the high death rate in Michigan nursing homes.
About a third of COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. have been at nursing homes, and the same is true in Michigan, according to some estimates — although the state Department of Health and Human Services hasn’t been able to offer concrete numbers.
New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo had put in place a similar policy, but recently backtracked when it became evident the harm that was being done to the population most vulnerable to the virus — the ill and elderly.
Whitmer, by contrast, renewed her initial order when it expired last week, extending it with an identical mandate — disregarding the concerns and advice of nursing home advocates and legislators.
The order requires long-term care facilities with less than 80% capacity to create COVID-19 units and to accept infected patients.
“These were areas that we immediately brought to the attention of the state and said you shouldn’t be implementing this in this manner,” Melissa Samuel, president of the Health Care Association of Michigan, has told us.
Admit it.
You don’t understand. I am here to make you shut the fuck up forever. No more abuse of people who tell the truth. No more lies.
https://www.propublica.org/article/fire-through-dry-grass-andrew-cuomo-saw-covid-19-threat-to-nursing-homes-then-he-risked-adding-to-it
The risks to the home’s staff and other residents were obvious: The virus was ravaging nursing homes across the country.
But the week before, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo and his health commissioner, Howard Zucker, had all but made such discharges mandatory. If a hospital determined a patient who needed nursing home care was medically stable, the home had to accept them, even if they had been treated for COVID-19. Moreover, the nursing home could not test any such prospective residents — those treated for COVID-19 or those hospitalized for other reasons — to see if they were newly infected or perhaps still contagious despite their treatment. It was all laid out in a formal order, effective March 25. New York was the only state in the nation that barred testing of those being placed or returning to nursing homes.
In the weeks that followed the March 25 order, COVID-19 tore through New York state’s nursing facilities, killing more than 6,000 people — about 6% of its more than 100,000 nursing home residents. In all, as many as 4,500 COVID-19 infected patients were sent to nursing homes across the state, according to a count conducted by The Associated Press.
HW, are you seeing this trend?
https://mobile.twitter.com/binarybits/status/1273378553325903874
Probably from increased testing you think or are red states being ravaged? Pretty wild it is going down in places where protests and riots have occurred. How could that be unless this stay-at-home/no-public-gathering shit has no effect on covid19?
States like GA, TX, FL and AZ aren’t considering the threat to be as serious and haven’t had such restrictive orders as the Northeast big urban corridor, the rust belt states and west coast.
Rates will remain mild through the summer. Like all cold and flu viruses, shit hits the fan when autumn weather cools significantly.
Research is suggesting the virus doesn’t spread as easily through outdoor crowds as it does through shared indoor space.
Total deaths have surpassed 121,000. Daily death rates in the US continue to average in the 700 to 800 range.
Aloha iRobert, with fewer than 1/3 of the 2.2 million infected with the Trump virus reported as “recovered” And with 30000 new cases today I’m confident we’ll get back up to 1000 a day in no time MAGA
Oh HW, that is OTHER reason people often don’t respond to you. You kind of go off the deep end and start spouting weird word salad that doesn’t make sense. I am sorry that you don’t have the best reading comprehension. I’ll post this link to the actual executive order even though it is much more complex than anything I think you will be able to understand.
https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/0,9309,7-387-90499_90705-531929–,00.html
Read the whole thing, Nursing homes are not only not forced to accept residents with COVID, they are required to NOT accept them if they can’t provide a safe COVID unit.
Yep, total gaslighting moron confirmed for the nth time. I easily disprove every attempt you make at saying something factual. “Must not prohibit admission based on covid-19 testing.” I know those words are pretty big for a little brain. Do you comprehend what it means?
A long-term care facility must not prohibit admission or readmission of a resident based on COVID-19 testing requirements or results in a manner that is inconsistent with this order or relevant guidance issued by the Department of Health and Human Services (“DHHS”).
How do you not take someone who beats your ass every day seriously? Feigned disdain.
Aloha, looks like people are smarter than the Leader thinks. Lots of empty seats at today’s COVID party.
https://mobile.twitter.com/jeffmason1/status/1274488592405008384/photo/3
Too bad the President still draws many thousands when your guy can’t draw a small handful. You guys are fucked. Your politicians have allowed extremists to take control and you are going to pay for it at the ballot box.
Aloha, what “recovery “ from the Trump virus looks like for many.
https://god.dailydot.com/covid19-recovery-after-effects/?fbclid=IwAR2xt-XvoTonqRb0ErVshHBEkcybe2wAUf5DtZ1TwOheWMTlU2j_jCuQMfE
HW, Bless your heart! What it actually says is “A long-term care facility must not prohibit admission or readmission of a resident based on COVID-19 testing requirements or results in a manner that is inconsistent with this order or relevant guidance issued by the Department of Health and Human Services (“DHHS”).”
It is the second part that matters and why I was advising you to read the whole thing. It is further down in the order where what it consistent with the order is laid out. Nursing homes who cannot safely provide special COVID units are NOT required to accept COVID positive patients.
Just as an FYI, when you declare yourself the winner of the argument when you VERY clearly have not even so much as made a good honest point, it makes you look more stupid than you otherwise would look. Just sayin’
One thing that was not clear about the “dedicated covid units” in long term care facilities. Is it allowable for the residents to be separated but the employees to interact with the covid unit and the non covid residents? It seems like that little factor needs to be spelled out. I missed it. Is it in there?
I don’t know the answer to my questions yet but this article, which I skimmed, seems to suggest that many people in the health field think there is big SAFETY distinction between 1) covid dedicated units within a long term care facility; and separate 2) covid center facilities. Is the reason some experts preferred 2 because 1 allows for employees/ care givers to jump between units back and forth?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.detroitnews.com/amp/3223213001
I am not making the argument that the e executive order is not flawed. There are obstacles though that were taken into consideration, ie the feasibility of opening dedicated COVID sites.
I was offering a rebuttal to HW’s claim Michigan was forcing nursing homes to admit people with COVID.
Lynne, you are so dumb. It says they MUST make every reasonable effort to make a unit and a facility with a unit CANNOT refuse a patient. If you can’t refuse a patient then you are being forced to admit them. How is that not clear to you?
It’s funny how you pick a side without knowing what is going on and then try to justify it no matter what you find out about it. I call aggravated ignorance. It’s equivalent to a felonious assault on logic.
“I was offering a rebuttal”
You were being a gaslighting moron like every other day.
HW, you sound like a complete buffoon. You compare Trump’s rally crowd to Biden’s… non-rally crowds?
Weird.
Biden isn’t holding rallies, big guy, because he’s in the camp that believes in science, and knows holding rallies at indoor venues is a recipe for Covid-19 outbreaks.
But sure, let’s assume that crowd size is predictive of voter turnout. Please. By all means, assume that Trunp’s rabid fan base is of sufficient size to defeat Biden in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin.
Too bad for you and your dumbass argument Biden did indeed attempt to hold “rallies” and they weren’t shit. It was embarrassing. Trump’s rallies are like an 80’s rock concert in size.
No one likes this anarcho-communist shit the dems have been fostering in certain cities. There are a handful of radicals and that is it as far as numbers go.
Reasonable Americans of all stripes who don’t want give control to terrorist scumbags are going to vote dems out. You will have a few stronghold cities and states but the rest of the country will be redder than ever. You think middle America goes for violence and looting and arson and murder unchecked in our cities?
Aloha , hundreds infected while processing chickens. Don’t worry though we’ll keep the plant open and fire any of the slaves who refuse to work.
Americans are so stupid. The Chinese are not saying the Trump virus is transmitted through food.
We know the virus survives on surfaces for hours. We know that the virus survives for weeks at freezing and perhaps for years when deep frozen.
The latest outbreak in China they belief was caused from the packaging of imported flash frozen Salmon from Germany.
The world will soon be following the China lead and will stop importing frozen US food products. MAGA
https://apnews.com/9b2b24d3b3ed981041a7fe6ab499100c
So China is trying to blame an outbreak on how food is processed in Germany and the US.
Dude. I know you love the CCP but they closed off flights between Wuhan and other cities within China, while simultaneously allowing flights from Wuhan to other parts of the world.