Finally accepting that there are no easy answers to COVID-19, our coward of a president officially abdicates all responsibility, and just walks away from the problem

Yesterday, new government modeling was released which showed that, by June 1, we could be seeing as many as 200,000 new COVID-19 cases and over 3,000 deaths per day. And, today, it was reported that, in spite of this, the White House is looking to wind down its coronavirus task force. Curious as to how Trumpists might spin the news, I decided to visit the Twitter account of Fox News personality Laura Ingram. “For too long it seemed like unelected doctors were making policy,” she said, adding that the “economic toll was disastrous.” Not too long afterward, Donald Trump essentially echoed this take when talking with members of the press after touring a factory in Arizona. [He toured the factory, by the way, without a mask, to a soundtrack of Live and Let Die.]

It would seem that, with over 72,000 Americans now dead, and the prospect of that number growing significantly, the time for doctors and infectious disease experts is now officially over. We’re apparently going all-in on opening up the economy, no matter what the cost, and without any real coordination what-so-ever. [Dr. Anthony Fauci learned about the shutting down of his task force today from a reporter.]

Oh, and it’s not just that Trump is winding down the task force, but he’s also said that he won’t be allowing doctor Anthony Fauci to testify before the House because, in his view, it’s “a set-up” with a “bunch of Trump haters”. That’s right, the President of the United States, just days after telling us that over 100,000 American citizens may die from COVID-19, said that he wouldn’t be allowing our nation’s foremost authority on infectious diseases to testify before Congress because he thinks the doctor’s comments might make him look bad. That’s where we are in America.

Two more things, as I can’t sleep… First, it came out today that Rick Bright, the recently fired chief of the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Agency, has filed a formal complaint with the Office of the Special Prosecutor saying that the federal government, among other things, has been signing questionable contracts with “companies with political connections to the administration”. Among these, according to the complaint, is a deal signed with a drug company connected to a friend of Jared Kushner, the President’s son-in-law. And, second, it was reported today that a former volunteer on Kushner’s COVID Response Team has filed a complaint with the House Oversight Committee. The complaint, according to the Washington Post, “alleges that the team responsible for PPE had little success in helping the government secure such equipment, in part because none of the team’s members had significant experience in health care, procurement or supply-chain operations“. This, as you’ll recall, was the team that Donald Trump promised us a month ago would make sure that all of our front-line health care workers would have what the needed. Well, they didn’t. And now we’re beginning to understand why.

So, to sum up, the Coronavirus task Force that Donald Trump launched, but rarely attended the meetings of, is being wound down just as new federal modeling shows a dramatic uptick in infections and subsequent deaths. And, with every new news cycle, we’re getting a clearer picture of the chaotic, corrupt and incompetent Trump administration response to the pandemic that brought us to where we are today. One hopes it begins to make a difference, and that people start to see the reality of what’s happening… Speaking of forcing people to confront reality, I’d like to leave you with this ad, titled “Mourning in America” in homage to Reagan’s famous “Morning in America” campaign spot from 1984, which ran last night during Tucker Carlson’s Fox News program, and caused Donald Trump to absolutely lose his fucking mind.

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206 Comments

  1. John Brown
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 2:29 am | Permalink

    Total abdication of leadership responsibility. But that was his assignment from the start. Ruskie stooge piece of shit.

  2. Posted May 6, 2020 at 7:49 am | Permalink

    From Fox News:

    Dems deploying DARPA-funded AI-driven information warfare tool to target pro-Trump accounts

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dems-deploying-darpa-funded-information-warfare-tool-to-promote-biden.amp

  3. EOS
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    The modeling hasn’t been right yet, why do we keep using it?

    What if the government mandated lockdowns were lifted? Persons at risk are still allowed to stay home and self-isolate. Young healthy persons could resume life as normal: jobs, large groups, bars, restaurants, etc. After two months of fear mongering, persons at risk should know better than resume contact with those who haven’t been isolating.

    The young healthy persons would get infected and more than 99% would recover at home without need of medical intervention. Once recovered, they could keep the economy running and eventually provide “herd immunity” if there is such a thing. Given a choice, I think many young people would rather risk the disease than remain in lockdown for the next 5 years. And as long as it is a choice, and persons aren’t compelled, why not?

    When I was growing up, my parents made sure I got exposed to measles, mumps, chickenpox etc. and as a result, I have lifelong immunity. There were no vaccines and most parents wanted their kids to have childhood illnesses which were minor compared to getting exposed for the first time as an adult.

    What if we provided free food and housing in isolated communities until a person gets and fully recovers from COVID on a volunteer basis?

  4. Demetrius
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 8:52 am | Permalink

    Watching the news reports from China back in January, it was obvious (even to a non-expert like me) that this virus was going to spread worldwide, and would become an unprecedented threat to health, life, and the economy here in the United States – yet U.S. officials did virtually nothing to prepare. Worse yet, once it was detected, and as people began to die, they continued to minimize the threat, spreading false assurances and failing to take even the most basic steps to protect Americans, or prepare for the consequent impacts.

    So, lacking any kind of competent leadership at the national level, it is now up to overwhelmed cities and states to do whatever they can to try to mitigate the worst effects – urging people to continue social distancing, trying to protect the frail and elderly in nursing homes, etc., while our new “normal” evolves to become a passive acceptance that most of us will remain at risk, and that tens of thousands of our friends and loved ones are consigned to die over the next 12-18 months.

    Meanwhile, many other countries – including some who are much poorer than ours, and have much less well-developed medical and public health infrastructures – have been able to brace for the arrival of the virus, and used robust contact tracing and community-health measures to keep their numbers relatively low.

    Late last night, I ended up watching an episode of “America in Color” that focused on the 1960’s. Despite the nightmare of the Cuban Missile Crisis, and the country’s growing entanglement in Vietnam, I was struck by how much of the nation’s public attention and effort was focused on three remarkably ambitious ideals: The Civil Rights Act, the War on Poverty, and “Putting a Man on the Moon.” In retrospect, the relative success of each effort can be debated… but can you imagine any American leader today proposing (let alone gaining widespread public support for) anything approaching that level of national commitment, ambition and resolve?

    In only 50 years, we’ve gone from mobilizing the nation to undertake a “War on Poverty” … to watching our “leaders” mostly stand idly by while a virus sickens millions and kill tens of thousands of our fellow citizens, while simultaneously destroying the jobs and livelihoods of millions more.

    Where is the accountability? Where is the leadership? Where is the outrage?

  5. EOS
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    Maybe as a result of this pandemic persons will realize that government is incapable of solving all problems. Maybe we will all be more self-sufficient as a result. 1/3 of our tax revenues will be consumed by paying interest on the Federal debt. The rest is already earmarked for programs like Social Security and Medicare and other necessary goods. There isn’t an unlimited reserve of Federal dollars for expansion of services or even to maintain the infrastructure. We spent billions on the War on Poverty in the 60’s and got more poverty as a result. Who thinks it’s sustainable to pay people more money to stay home than they would get if they returned to work?

  6. Bob
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 9:12 am | Permalink

    It’s amazing to me that the Republicans aren’t mounting their own coupe to take this madman out.

  7. K.
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    “Maybe as a result of this pandemic persons will realize that government is incapable of solving all problems.”

    That’s the silver lining for anti-government idiots. It may cost the lives of over 100,000 Americans, but if this demonstrates just how terrible and ineffective the federal government is, then it’s a win.

    It’s amazing to me that we have people this stupid in our country.

  8. bet HW that McCabe wouldn’t be fired and all I got was this stupid name
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 9:20 am | Permalink

    Aloha EOS, I always love reading your magical thinking. so never vaccinated for Polio, Tetanus, Smallpox, rubella? You are a walking disease vector waiting to happen. I did my social duty and helped eradicate polio and smallpox.
    Good thing you have a bunker to hide in.

  9. Anonymous
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    Trump has now reversed himself, saying that he won’t kill the White House task force. That doesn’t mean, however, that he will start attending the meetings or taking their recommendations seriously.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/us/coronavirus-updates.html

  10. EOS
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    I was in the military. I was vaccinated against everything. But there were no vaccinations against many common diseases when I was growing up. Just as there is no vaccine currently against COVID-19.

  11. Demetrius
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 9:36 am | Permalink

    There are many things that are best addressed, and best handled at a local level.

    Unfortunately, pandemic illness is probably the best example of the kind of threat that can ONLY be effectively handled by national – and even international authorities.

    The experience in Italy and in many other countries shows that it doesn’t do much good for one city, or region, to establish social distancing (or even lock-downs), if surrounding areas don’t also take similar measures. Likewise, measures taken within any given country can only be so effective as long as infected citizens from other countries are able to travel freely.

    Here in the U.S., local efforts are helpful – but limited in their effectiveness because there is no strong, nationwide coordination among the states and regions. Likewise, states are left to fight (or bid) among themselves for limited ventilators, testing supplies, etc. – wasting precious time and resources that could be spent saving lives.

    If the federal government fails to provide effective leadership, and declines to deploy the enormous talent and resources at their disposal to protect the American people during a true disaster like this one – then what’s the point?

  12. EOS
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    @ Demetrius,

    So is world government the only solution? May it never be!

  13. Jean Henry
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 9:52 am | Permalink

    Trump and his supporters are uniquely committed to denialism. Trump has had so much lifelong privilege that this tendency of his to just rework reality to his liking has never had any larger consequence. All humans tend towards denialism (delusion). Most of us can’t get away with it for as long, but a good chunk of people will bite anytime a leader drops a denialist line that tells them what they want to hear.

    “If the task force goes away so will the problem.” Off with their heads!

    Trump is so classically totalitarian; it’s amazing more of his supporters can’t see it at all. Denialism.

  14. Jean Henry
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    EOS– what’s wrong with world governance?
    I thought you were a humanitarian? People are people. Does God distinguish between people based on nationality and geography?

  15. Jean Henry
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 10:00 am | Permalink

    Also EOS– the lock down was not intended to prevent the disease (not possible) or to prevent possible herd immunity; it was intended to slow the rate of infection to one that was manageable by the health care system. When the system is overwhelmed people don’t get the care they need. They also don’t get tested as needed. And the disease can grow well beyond our ability to control or manage it, so death tolls rise.

    It’s still possible that we will be overwhelmed by this illness. And every prevented infection matters. You know how geometric progressions work– Like compounding interest, but faster and with deaths.

  16. Jean Henry
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 10:06 am | Permalink

    I also feel a need to add that if the government didn’t shut down businesses then the pandemic would have. In early March storefront retail business was already down 20%. Before the pandemic come here. That’s not sustainable for many. We would have had mass unemployment anyway, with many becoming ill without adequate coverage. With many many more entire families and businesses (like meat packing plants) becoming ill en masse. Capitalism does not have a solution for that kind of calamity. The only possible result from a free market in a pandemic is total collapse. The government had to step in– like we did to rebuild Europe after WW2. One way or another this as going to cost a lot of money. I think government stoppage was the less costly route. We just should have done it much earlier and we should have had testing ready to go by the time Covid 19 came here.

    The length of this pandemic creates the cost of it; not the government.

  17. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 10:07 am | Permalink

    EOS,

    Though I agree with many of your points generally, you’re wrong to think much of what’s happened and is going to happen regarding this pandemic was and is largely unpredictable.

    Viruses of varying characteristics run through the population all the time. There is a lot of information available on the dynamics of such things as a result.

    The most significant “unpredictable” variables in a pandemic situation involve the leadership, preparation and response of the federal government, and the behavior of the public in regard to the situation. Neither of which are all that unpredictable to anyone who’s been paying attention, and is simply honest with themselves. This administration has been a circus of incompetence from the day Trump assumed the office, and on much more easily handled situations than a global health crisis poses. Their failure was, and continues to be, almost absolutely predictable.

    The public will only conduct themselves seriously and appropriately to a limited extent. That’s entirely predictable, as is their fatigue over time.

    Saying it’s unpredictable is similar to saying exit polling is inaccurate. Politically motivated polling conducted for public release is very easy to design so as to provide the desired results. At the same time, there are still firms which provide incredibly accurate exit polling which almost always remains confidential. It would stun people to learn how accurate exit polling is when done by serious scientists for serious analysis.

    The forecast that total deaths would end up being between 100,000 and 240,000 was and continues to look accurate. The idiocy and continued incompetence we’re seeing now will push the total up toward the upper end of that range by the time this virus has run its full course.

    “Herd Immunity,” by the way is a misleading term. It’s really not at all about immunity. It simply references the threshold where the transmission from any person to any others significantly reduces due to the dwindling number of people who haven’t had it yet.

  18. Jean Henry
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 10:25 am | Permalink

    As a pandemic management contrast, Vietnam closed everything for three months and they now are opening schools etc back up. They had less than 300 confirmed cases. They also have more recent experience with pandemics.

    https://learningenglish.voanews.com/a/how-vietnam-contains-the-coronavirus/5404566.html

  19. Demetrius
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 10:26 am | Permalink

    Quite a leap from advocating for better national and international planning and coordination in response to a deadly virus … to “world government,” don’t you think?

    If anything, I’m actually in favor of more decentralization and more local control (economic, social, political) whenever possible. Unfortunately – for better or worse, our economy is global, supply chains span the planet, travel is ever cheaper and easier, and borders are more porous than ever before. The result is that we’re likely to face more frequent (and possibly more virulent) pathogens in the years to come.

    We either need to “re-localize” and re-scale our societies and economies (something that may end up happening by default, given growing resource scarcity and environmental degradation) – or we need to have much more robust national and international planning and coordination to address these challenges.

  20. EOS
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    @Robert,

    The deaths resulting from this pandemic are largely among the at risk population. Most deaths recently were among front line workers and their family members and persons confined to group settings. The front line workers are exposed repeatedly to large infectious doses which overwhelm their bodily defenses. Persons confined to nursing homes and group settings were neglected, not tested, nor isolated when they became infected.

    I wonder how many projected deaths there would be if we had implemented rational responses. If tests were limited, don’t waste tests on persons likely to survive the illness. Use the available tests to monitor residents of nursing homes and group homes daily. Quickly isolate infected persons away from others confined in the same locations. Test the frontline workers daily and remove them as soon as they test positive. Isolate the entire household of infective persons. Don’t let family members interact with the public for a week or more before they display symptoms themselves, thereby spreading the virus to countless others in the meantime.

    Public health is administered at the county level with the Sheriff being the enforcement. Southeastern Michigan, Flint, Saginaw, and Grand Rapids, and a few other communities need a different response than the rest of the state. Maybe it would be smarter to keep individuals from traveling outside of these areas, while the rest of the state keeps the economy running. Maybe it would be smarter to house frontline workers separately while the pandemic spreads through certain communities.

    The projections forecast the spread of the disease while attempting to lockdown the entire country. I’d like to see better isolation methods and the reduced projections that would result.

  21. Bonnie T Ervin
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 10:43 am | Permalink

    TO EOS concerning life long immunity “When I was growing up, my parents made sure I got exposed to measles, mumps, chickenpox etc. and as a result, I have lifelong immunity. There were no vaccines and most parents wanted their kids to have childhood illnesses which were minor compared to getting exposed for the first time as an adult.”
    I too had all of those diseases as a child and YET had to receive booster shots because my “life long” immunity was not “life long”. Titers assessed that antibodies were not sufficient 1. before getting pregnant and THEN again 24 years later before an international trip. I suspect I am not alone. Each person’s immune system is different. Assumptions are not wise things to do.

  22. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 10:47 am | Permalink

    Political conditions are such that Trump must leave the decisions to the individual states. There is not really a choice.

    Did we end up having a shortage of ventilators?

    The shortage of masks was disturbing and should be a wake up call. There were reasons for that shortage which Trump was actually warning against GENERALLY—years ago. If anything Trump has been prescient.

  23. EOS
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    @ FF,

    The shortage of PPE is alarming. I will not soon forget that local hospitals did not have enough masks, gloves, and gowns to protect their employees.

  24. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 11:08 am | Permalink

    Hospitals are businesses. They also took for granted that the federal government was a normally functioning one. It was an assumption which almost nobody questioned, as the federal government has never failed this monumentally on something relatively basic.

    EOS, contingency plans have been developed for years as to how to best and quickly deal with threats such as this pandemic. This particular administration has ignored those plans. Your thoughts about what what counties and states might do are much like some of the sorts of ideas which were discussed in exercisea and drills which helped to develop those plans over the many years.

  25. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    Competence of the federal government to deal with national and/or global threats does not equate to a new world order global government.

    Competence does not equate to authoritarianism.

  26. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 11:15 am | Permalink

    FF: “Political conditions are such that Trump must leave the decisions to the individual states. There is not really a choice.”

    Political conditions? Such as? And how do any political conditions impact the administration’s ability to act?

  27. EOS
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 11:23 am | Permalink

    Hospitals are businesses, competing with other businesses to attract the best employees. Who will accept a job in the future with an employer who took in patients from other hospitals while they had inadequate protection for their employees? I don’t think it is a Federal responsibility to oversee hospital supplies at every local institution. Because a pandemic was inevitable, shouldn’t every healthcare institution maintain adequate supplies? Did the Federal government at any point assure all institutions that they would be providing PPE for all their employees? Did the hospital administrators calculate it would be better to point fingers at others than to supply essential supplies that would save the lives of their employees?

  28. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 11:23 am | Permalink

    “Not our president”

    “Resist”

    “Illegitimate president”

    Some states are comprised of a majority of people who believe those statements. Just focus in on Pelosi’s Corona related statements in Jan and Feb if you want an insight into the political conditions and how it effected her mindset as a supposed leader.

  29. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    Great points, EOS.

  30. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 11:35 am | Permalink

    EOS: “Hospitals are businesses, competing with other businesses to attract the best employees. Who will accept a job in the future with an employer who took in patients from other hospitals while they had inadequate protection for their employees?”

    A: Everybody desperate for a job in health care.

    EOS: “I don’t think it is a Federal responsibility to oversee hospital supplies at every local institution.”

    Nobody suggested it is. It is however only the federal government which can adequately respond, mobilize . and coordinate the massive response required to a global emergency.

    EOS: “Because a pandemic was inevitable, shouldn’t every healthcare institution maintain adequate supplies?”

    It would be great if they would, but they won’t. Businesses don’t do well if they spend money on things which are almost never used or needed.

    EOS: “Did the Federal government at any point assure all institutions that they would be providing PPE for all their employees?”

    It was assumed by almost everyone, because emergencies on a national level have always been handled that way, and for many logical reasons. It seemed a safe assumption in all their minds. They didn’t realize what an incompetent mess the administration actually was and is. Like you don’t realize it.

    EOS: “Did the hospital administrators calculate it would be better to point fingers at others than to supply essential supplies that would save the lives of their employees?”

    I don’t speak for hospital administrators but I assume they have simply tried to explain why they don’t spend lots of money on a gamble they’re most likely to lose. It’s kind of understood.

  31. EOS
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 11:37 am | Permalink

    The Federal government reacted quickly to close the borders to those traveling from highly infective regions. The state of Wyoming needs a different response than the State of New York. And New York City needs a different response than upstate. It is the local government that is best able to respond to widely variant conditions.

  32. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    Maybe you could just tell me what precisely it is that you are calling the “political conditions” that are keeping Trump from simply directing the federal government to do the job it normally does in a national emergency.

  33. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    EOS: “The Federal government reacted quickly to close the borders to those traveling from highly infective regions.”

    That one action, which I acknowledge was necessary, was only one simple action which should have been part of a whole series and breadth of actions.

    EOS: “The state of Wyoming needs a different response than the State of New York. And New York City needs a different response than upstate. It is the local government that is best able to respond to widely variant conditions.”

    No shit. And you think that means the federal government doesn’t have a role in the coordination? It does. Does this mean you can’t imagine what functions only a federal government and perform proactively in order to provide the framework and support the lower level government agencies need?

  34. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    It’s pretty idiotic not to know what I’m talking about when there are live-time examples taking place all over the world. Do you think the individual states and cities in Germany were left to their own devices to figure out how to contend with the virus? The German federal government is one of the best examples of what the US government could have done and could be doing. Why don’t you look at that a bit rather than pretend we’re speaking about some issue in a vacuum.

  35. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 11:52 am | Permalink

    Political condition= irrational Trump hate

    I reject the idea that Trump did not do his job. He is leading within the parameters of the political conditions. It is totally normal given the conditions that Trump leave decisions up to individual States. Did we ever have a ventilator shortage you were worried about?

    It is also better to have multiple state/ regional experiments occurring so that we have control groups.

  36. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 11:53 am | Permalink

    While you’re looking into that, EOS, maybe FF can be clear about what political circumstances are keeping Trump from carrying out the basic duties of a president in a situation of national emergency.

    I am trying not to pose that as a question. I know how you two feel about questions. Getting either one of you to answer even a simple question is infinitely more difficult than pulling teeth.

  37. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 11:59 am | Permalink

    I don’t see specifically how irrational Trump hate keeps him from carrying out the standard duties a president carries out in a national emergency.

    Is it possible for you to explain? I hate to ask so much of you.

    FF: “I reject the idea that Trump did not do his job. He is leading within the parameters of the political conditions. It is totally normal given the conditions that Trump leave decisions up to individual States.”

    Your rejection is dramatically irrational, and runs contrary to all evidence.

    FF: “Did we ever have a ventilator shortage you were worried about?

    Mitigation efforts headed off the otherwise inevitable shortage of ventilators. You understand that, right?

  38. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 11:59 am | Permalink

    I’m sorry iRobert. I like you. I just disagree that the way Trump is handling this is idiotic. I think the opposite. Are the European countries all idiots for not putting one person in charge to make all decisions for all European countries? I actually think we should split MI into regions with different guidelines and timetables. Maybe we have different expectations about the extent we can stop the virus? Maybe we have different senses of the damage to the economy and the human cost it will entail?

  39. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    I’ve never suggested Trump impose decisions on individual states. Am I going to have to go through all the things the federal government did in previous national emergencies?

    DonI have to walk you and EOS through all the details which differentiate the German federal action from that of Trump’s administration?

  40. EOS
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

    I think it is the local officials who need to be held accountable. Washtenaw County has developed its own disaster plans. They receive state and federal funds to prepare for emergencies. Think of how much PPE the county health department could have purchased with the millions of dollars they chose to give to Planned Parenthood over the years. If you don’t think the county government has wasted enormous sums of money on non-essentials year after year, then you haven’t been paying attention. We would be far better served if the citizens monitored local governments more closely than if we all jumped on the “it’s all Trump’s Fault” bandwagon.

  41. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

    FF: “I’m sorry iRobert. I like you. I just disagree that the way Trump is handling this is idiotic.”

    It’s not just a disagreement, FF. It flies in the face of every bit of data…every bit of evidence. How is one supposed to respond to such a thing?

    FF: “Are the European countries all idiots for not putting one person in charge to make all decisions for all European countries?”

    The European Union is providing some minimal coordination, but it has revealed a disadvantage the EU has to the US, or at least used to have before the Trump disaster.

    FF: “I actually think we should split MI into regions with different guidelines and timetables. Maybe we have different expectations about the extent we can stop the virus? Maybe we have different senses of the damage to the economy and the human cost it will entail?”

    That isn’t a bad idea, but Michigan state government is stretched to its limits already. And to some degree Detroit has been doing things to their own immediate needs anyway. The state government has been doing a good job of providing the sort of support and assistance akin to that of a functioning federal government would be providing to the states.

  42. EOS
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

    Germans are social democrats. I just googled their tax rates. They have an income tax that averages 45% in addition to a 19% sales tax. Their Federal government has far greater control over their citizens than Americans would tolerate.

  43. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    I am pretty sure the rational choice would have been to social distance even if we had 10 million high quality ventilators. 80% death rate for Corona patients who go on a ventilator right? So, the decision to social distance was not made in strict regard to the ventilator situation anyway.

    I am not trying to dodge the questions you are asking. I am wondering what specific things do you think Trump should have done that he did not do? I have asked this question of others before IRL. The immediate response is almost always a highly emotionally charge statement like “Don’t dismantle the emergency pandemic team”. It really does not answer the question though. Are there some specific things our leadership (in general) could have done better in your mind? Sincere question.

  44. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    EOS: “I think it is the local officials who need to be held accountable.”

    Agreed, but not for federal failures.

    EOS: “Washtenaw County has developed its own disaster plans.”

    Local disaster plans are inherently very limited. Resources and personnel are very limited. In an ideal world, I certainly agree that local preparation and capacity to mobilize would be a great thing. There are hardly any counties in the country that are prepared at all. Major emergencies on such a scale are very rare. Companies and local governments can’t be forced to make preparations and they have very little to motivate them in those decades when there has not been such massive emergencies.

    EOS: “They receive state and federal funds to prepare for emergencies. Think of how much PPE the county health department could have purchased with the millions of dollars they chose to give to Planned Parenthood over the years.”

    I don’t know that they gave any money marked for emergencies to PP. did they?

    EOS: “If you don’t think the county government has wasted enormous sums of money on non-essentials year after year, then you haven’t been paying attention.”

    Of course I know that. I’m with you on government waste, at least in general.

    EOS: “We would be far better served if the citizens monitored local governments more closely than if we all jumped on the “it’s all Trump’s Fault” bandwagon.”

    I agree to the notion that people should monitor local government. I want to live in that world too.

    However, that isn’t a logical argument that the Trump administration is not failing miserably in its basic duties in this time of national emergency.

  45. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

    It is very possible I am clueless about what a proper response looks like. I am an idiot about this health stuff. Educate me about the specifics. I can certainly get on board with the notion that it was disappointing we did not have enough PPE for hospital workers but even that is complicated when it comes to assign blame.

  46. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

    EOS: “Germans are social democrats. I just googled their tax rates. They have an income tax that averages 45% in addition to a 19% sales tax. Their Federal government has far greater control over their citizens than Americans would tolerate.”

    The US government has far greater money and resources per capita than the German government does. Any precious US federal government, Republican or Democratic, would have responded similarly to how the German government has. The German government has not done anything very draconian. They’ve simply functioned properly as a mobilizing, advising and coordinating force. Just like everywhere else, different regions and cities have varying circumstances and needs.

  47. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    No emergency plan is more local then individuals using social distancing practices and hygiene practices. I am assuming it is the most effective plan short of having a vaccine.

  48. EOS
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    I very much prefer less government and more individual freedoms that exist in the U.S. I don’t need the Federal government to tell me how to best protect my health and life. Government is best which governs least.

  49. Jean Henry
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    EOS— but workers deserve no protections or freedoms right?
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dallas-restaurant-workers-face-masks-work/

    There’s a reason we often need federal oversight, because without it assholes reign in their fiefdoms— whether businesses or counties or states. And other people get trapped there. Those places are like quicksand for the oppressed. Anyone who grew up in one knows that it’s not easy for many to get out.

  50. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

    FF, good will among the American people has been extraordinarily high. Most major corporations have also been extraordinarily anxious to offer any help they can. All it would take is a focal point of coordination to make sure all of that good will and offers to assist are utilized to their maximum potential. That leadership has been almost completely nonexistent. These corporations and individuals who are anxious to give all they can to make a difference are often having their offers fall on deaf ears. They often can’t connect with those who they would best coordinate. A focal point is essential to maximize all of that potential and most efficiently use it to achieve the planned objectives. Letting everyone just randomly seek to make their own connections is extremely inefficient, and frustrating for those seeking to do something. It’s the difference between having a national volunteer army and just telling people to figure out themselves what they want to do to help and go do it.

    For a start, the administration should have a coordination “war room” which could probably operate out of one office building dedicated to this effort. That would be step one.

  51. Hyborian Pudlord
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

    I’m amazed EOS didn’t catch some friendly fire during military service. Couldn’t even make one friend.

  52. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    iRobert,

    I just read a few articles about the German response. The articles seem to indicate that Germany has lower death rates because of more testing primarily. Is that the main thing you would have like to have seen more of in the US? My personal opinion ( perhaps uneducated opinion) is that testing our way out of this mess would not work in the US. Maybe that is the root of our different perspectives?

  53. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

    EOS, the US has traditionally been one of the freest nations in the world, and at the same time it has also been one of the most capable in dealing with massively emergencies. The two are not diametrically opposed. We have even been better at it historically than authoritarian governments for the most part. Thatvis because freedom breeds optimism, hope, ambition, hard work, and good will. At least it does in comparison to more authoritarian societies.

  54. bet HW that McCabe wouldn’t be fired and all I got was this stupid name
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, I thought this was a national emergency. The lack of national leadership is apparent in the rampant defeatism epitomized by the acceptance of coexisting with the virus. This is in essence adopting senicide as public policy.
    Magical thinking seems to dominate the news. The fastest we have ever developed and deployed an effective and safe vaccine is four years. We know the virus is mutating. Most advanced industrial countries are following a containment-eradication strategy.
    Those US communities that adopted strict stay at home rules—San Fransisco for example, has had only 31 deaths. The University of California just completed a comprehensive community testing of the neighborhoods in SF with the highest incidence of confirmed cases. The testing showed only 2.5% of individuals with covid 19 antigens.
    Here in Michigan we were bringing the infection rate down dramatically until Trump and the death cult decided to politicize the Virus and called for our “liberation”. Infection rates are now increasing exponentially in Western and Northern counties.

  55. Posted May 6, 2020 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

    I am hoping that what people learn is that they CAN count on the government to help them but only if they elect the right people. As for the costs, EOS, we could start funneling money from our over-bloated military to start spending it on more productive and needed social programs.

  56. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

    What is working in Germany would work here. There is no reason it wouldn’t work the same everywhere. We could have had companies manufacturing tests in enormous numbers for two months now. We could have multiple tests per every American by now and it would be a powerful tool in getting certain industries back up and running.

    Tests would have been especially critical in the very beginning had the federal government responded appropriately and not depended on the Chinese Communist Party to do right by us.

    But now it’s becoming apparent that tests are becoming valuable again for a different reason now, and producing them on a massive scale could be used the way the Germans have shown.

  57. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

    “Here in Michigan we were bringing the infection rate down dramatically until Trump and the death cult decided to politicize the Virus and called for our “liberation”. Infection rates are now increasing exponentially in Western and Northern counties.“

    Is that a true statement? Or are you making it up? Everyday I look at the daily numbers for Michigan. Everyday I look at the number of people who tested positive and count back to see how many days back were half the number infected. It has been consistently taking more time to double the number who tested positive. The same is true for the length of time it takes to double the amount who have died.

  58. EOS
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    The virus is spreading through asymptomatic individuals. The federal government can’t do anything to eliminate it. We all just have to wait until it mutates into an innocuous, or at least less lethal pathogen.

  59. bet HW that McCabe wouldn’t be fired and all I got was this stupid name
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    Aloha iRobert, I see you are going to get in on the sinophobia. But like I pointed out defeatism seems rampant. Don’t buy into their manufactured crises with China, Trump has already out maneuvered the Democrats with that issue, dont give it any oxygen.

  60. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    EOS, FF, HW, if you three want to propose to the Trump administration that we establish a national COVID war room, I’ll join you in doing that. I would set aside my feelings about the administration to be a part of an effective coordinating office tasked with making sure all this good will in the country stops going to waste. Americans like mobilizing for a good cause. They especially like mobilizing for a good fight. And that’s how this should be approached. That’s also a bit of what would most likely get Trump back in the good graces of the voters.

  61. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

    Wobblie,

    The Chinese people and their culture is not the same as their government. Many of my Chinese neighbors are sinophobic by your definition. Your application of the definition is unfortunately flawed.

  62. EOS
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

    And the national COVID war room would bring Trump back into good graces more so than his COVID task force?

  63. Meta
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

    GOP Rep Tom Cole on Fauci testifying: “It would have been good testimony, useful to this committee, I think useful to this country. Frankly, I think going forward, this subcommittee more than any other is going to need … expert input, as we make the important decisions.”

  64. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

    You’re wrong, Wobblie.

    I think Trump is going in the wrong direction with how he’s dealing with China. If I were advising him, I’d suggest we openly announce we are setting aside our differences and suspicions of the Chinese government in order to work together with them in getting both our countries, and the rest of the world through this crisis.

  65. Anonymous
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    “The virus is spreading through asymptomatic individuals. The federal government can’t do anything to eliminate it.”

    Why are death rates dropping in other countries then?

  66. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

    EOS: “And the national COVID war room would bring Trump back into good graces more so than his COVID task force?”

    Yes because we would actually get shit done, rather than just have an idiot rambling the same nonsense and lies. We would be doing shit. Not putting on a BS show like your hero does.

  67. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    You see, EOS, people actually respond when they see you’re actually doing something. Only idiots respond to rambling bullshit briefings from an emotionally and mentally stunted freak.

    It may come as a surprise to you, but many Americans can tell the difference.

  68. EOS
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

    Like having the Army Corp of Engineers build field hospitals? Or having the Navy Mercy ships dock in NY or LA? Like requiring manufacturers to use their facilities to make ventilators and PPE? Like reducing regulations that would slow down trying new pharmaceutical agents or producing vaccines? Like reducing immigration in the short term? Is this the BS show you were watching?

  69. EOS
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

    Maybe he could sign massive bailout bills to help people who have lost their jobs or who can’t work temporarily? Expedite getting cash deposited in citizens bank accounts or checks in their mailboxes?

  70. EOS
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

    Maybe he could facilitate getting the world’s foremost expert on infectious diseases to speak directly to the American people?

  71. EOS
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

    Oh were you hoping he could click the red ruby slippers while repeating, “there’s no place like home” until everything magically reverts to the good ol days?

  72. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

    The shit you mention, EOS, is all stuff that required only one phone call each from the President. Do you understand that?

    Do you know how much good Will is going to waste i America. We could operate an office which makes sure it all goes to maximum good use. I’d be happy to demonstrate it for you.

  73. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    I realize you have a very limited memory, knowledge, experience or imagination, EOS. But I described the first step in actually mobalizing all the energy in the country.

    Did you not understand my analogy?

    I made it simple for you. Imagine the difference between telling people to find their own way, or coordinating them with planned objectives in a volunteer national action plan.

  74. EOS
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    No I don’t understand. Do you have any concept of the logistics involved in any or all these accomplishments? One phone call and “poof“ – Cobo was turned into a working hospital?

  75. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    I’m actually kinda glad you can’t comprehend this very simple thing. It assured me no Trumpanzees do. So we can count on Trump continuing to flounder.

  76. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

    You’re an idiot, EOS. Yes, the President makes one phone call to get a field hospital set up. You’re a real dumbass, EOS. How could you not know that is the power of the presidency. It’s astonishing.

    Is there any other person here who doesn’t know that the President gets these things done with one phone call? Are any of the rest of you that stupid also? I’m just curious.

  77. EOS
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

    Yes, I’d like to read about your national volunteer action plan. Please elaborate.

  78. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    EOS: “No I don’t understand. Do you have any concept of the logistics involved in any or all these accomplishments?”

    Are you under the impression the President works out the logistics of such a thing? You’re a real moron, EOS.

    EOS: “One phone call and “poof“ – Cobo was turned into a working hospital?”

    One phone call from the President to the cabinet member who coordinates it further, yes. Imbecile.

    How is it even possible that you’re this stupid?

  79. EOS
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    He got things started with one phone call. I’m sure even you know that it takes massive coordination between many parties to accomplish anything of worth.

  80. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

    Are our other resident Trumpanzees this stupid?

    Does HW and FF also think the president has to do more than give the order?

    Have any of you been in the service?

    Have any of you worked in a corporation close to decision makers?

    I know.none of you jerkoffs have worked anywhere near a government executive office. You all make that very apparent.

  81. EOS
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

    Sorry to distract you. You were about to tell us about your national volunteer action plan to heal the world…

  82. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

    The President doesn’t do the coordination, genius.

  83. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    It would be beyond your comprehension, apparently. EOS. You don’t even know what competence looks like.

    I might explain it to FF or HW later. I’m not going to waste the time of explaining something obvious to a brain dead jerkoff. Your mind is gone…that is if you ever had one.

  84. EOS
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    I didn’t say he did. You are pulling a JH on me. That’s fine – destroy the paper tiger. But please tell us about your volunteer action plan.

  85. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    Try to imagine what every other president has done in times of challenge for the country. Read some books. Stop relishing in your brain rot. Eat healthier or something. You’re a mess.

  86. EOS
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    I’m sure FF and HW are as interested as the rest of us. They’ll explain the parts I have difficulty understanding.

  87. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

    It’s a waste of time interacting with you, EOS. I’m sure you’ve heard that before. I’m not a doctor. I’m not qualified or interested in working on your mental rot.

    You apparently don’t comprehend some fundamental things – the things which are fundamental to building more understanding. I don’t know if that’s a new developing condition of yours. But either way, you shouldn’t want to waste anyone’s time. Find a professional and pay them.

  88. EOS
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

    What did other Presidents do? Well for one, Obama did nothing while the embassy was attacked and the later blamed the deaths of 4 Americans on a 13 minute YouTube video. Then he went on a world tour where he bowed and apologized to other leaders for everything American.

    The Bushes bombed the Middle East every time they needed a distraction. I think GW referred to this as his 1000 points of light.

    President Clinton bombed a facility that made infant milk.

    What am I missing?

  89. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 2:44 pm | Permalink

    Wow, EOS. You’re really gone. I don’t remember you being this messed up. Has the isolation been hard on you? You’re making even less sense then I remember you making before.

    I’m talking about a mobilization and coordination of everybody and anybody among the American public who is looking to serve in some cocordinated effort. I’m talking about making sure that no offer from any company to assist and participate be put on hold or left to figure their options out themselves.

    We could really take this national emergency and have it be the catalyst for bringing the country together.

    Your mind seems lost in the back and forth of political bullshit. It’s seems like it’s all that’s left in there.

    I don’t know what to tell you. You have my sympathies. I hope you can work on that and bring yourself back.

  90. John Galt
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 3:28 pm | Permalink

    I’m with EOS. The value of every life lost in Benghazi under Obama is worth approximately 25,000 regular Americans dying here under Trump. Just do the math. 4 x 25,000 = 100K. As of today only about 75,000 people have died as a result of Trump’s beautiful work to demonstrate how terrible and useless government is. 100K is more than 75K, which means that Obama is worse.

  91. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

    You are losing me iRobert. This pandemic seems to have you out of sorts, imo. For me a productive conversation could revolve around accepting that Germany appears to have had a better response and go from there. It should be noted that statistically, while worse than Germany, we seem to have had a better response than a lot of countries. There is a lot to learn about this pandemic especially for someone like me who is pretty clueless about health related issues…I just think it is highly complicated to analyze. For example, you had very strong opinions about ventilators last month. It appear not to be a big issue. Your concern, which you expressed with certainty, now seems to have been unwarranted. Perhaps your strong opinions you are expressing today will seem a bit off a month from now too?

  92. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    FF, do you not understand that the mitigation efforts have reduced the need for ventilators?

    They will be needed again, and much more spread out over vast rural areas. Do you get that?

  93. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    It was also not clear that very many states would issue mitigation orders at that time.

    It’s going to be a much greater logistical challenge to get ventilators to patients spread out among rural locations as this virus spreads to those areas.

    As you had pointed out, Italy’s very short supply of ventilators contributed greatly to their death rate.

    Had mitigation orders not been issued so widely and the curve continued up along an earlier arc, the ability to get ventilators to all those in need would have soon been exceeded, and many more would die simply for that reason.

  94. Jean Henry
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

    FF —
    I’m going to try to get out in front of this and tell you in advance that most of us do not want to hear your review of Ahmaud Arbery’s murder and why the assailants are getting a bum rap.

    Really.

    Please just go somewhere else with that shit.

    If you have any humanity at all, spare us. We’re all exhausted.

  95. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    Germany is a good example to look at for ways we could improve our approach. Naturally there are many countries which have done worse than the US has, and I suppose we might learn something about what issues to avoid by looking at those examples. But the goal isn’t to make ourselves feel better about how we’ve done. The only thing we should be focused on isn’t what we can do to get through this more effectively and minimizing the loss of life.

  96. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

    I meant to type “IS” in that last sentence. The only thing we should be focused on is what we can do to get through this more effectively and minimizing the loss of life.

    And I can’t believe you’re saying I’m loosing you. I’m iRobert the Awesome! Ask HW. I have special powers knowing the things I do.

    I’m the greatest commenter this blog has ever had. I’ve accomplished more in my time commenting here than any other commenter. The Trumpanzees just hate me for being such a success.

  97. Jean Henry
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    EOS thinking Trump coordinates anything himself is truly rich. The man gives orders and then undermines those tasked with implementing them. Where he has Delaware’s himself— like to Kushner— it’s been a nightmare.

    Trump would like to give more orders. He gets pussy when he can’t. That’s the classic response of someone how never has to implement anything ever.

    As for Obama etc, excepting the Iraq invasion by W, Trump’s malfeasance and incompetence and the negative impact on this country are unparalleled. There’s no comparison.

  98. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

    My ventilator comments were perfect. You can go back and check the record. The comments I made were beautiful. Perfect comments. I’m iRobert the Awesome!

  99. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    “That shit”?

    SorryJean but the first I have ever heard about this recent shooting is from you, just now. If “that shit” refers to your interpretation of the quality of my analysis in Charlottesville I just would like to ask you one thing: What was Deandre Harris doing off camera at 5:33 of the “Durst is the Worst” video?

  100. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

    “Jean Henry
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 3:52 pm | Permalink
    FF —
    I’m going to try to get out in front of this and tell you in advance that most of us do not want to hear your review of Ahmaud Arbery’s murder and why the assailants are getting a bum rap.
    Really.
    Please just go somewhere else with that shit.
    If you have any humanity at all, spare us. We’re all exhausted.”

    You are on a dark path. Such manipulative deceit…

  101. EOS
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

    Robert is amazing. If only Trump had a COVID War Room instead of a task force and if he had started a volunteer action plan we would be in the clear by now. Who would have thought?

    Maybe you can volunteer to make the phone calls for him so he can go back to playing golf all day? Or better still, you could head up the volunteer phone brigade that could all make calls in Trump’s name and eliminate all viruses, provide basic income for all, and create world peace.

    If only I were as smart as Robert.

  102. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

    She has her own float at the Bias Pride Parade 2020 though. How bad could she be?

  103. Posted May 6, 2020 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

    Obama was the best president of my lifetime even if he was not perfect. Trump has been hands-down the worst (and I say this as someone alive during the Nixon years)

  104. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    If you are doing things for all the right reasons there is no need to be biased. How could someone who is factually wrong on a daily basis believe themselves to be on the right path? I’m sure: “I’m biased in all the right ways!”

  105. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

    EOS makes comments from a reality where there is no history or other countries to learn from. The US in his world exists in a vacuum of space and time.

    I’m glad the Trumpanzees are incapable of critical thought or even basic comprehension. It’s going to be fun watching their heads explode over the next several months.

    I do feel bad for all the innocent lives they’re taking with them though. If only the consequences of their idiocy could somehow only impact them.

  106. bet HW that McCabe wouldn’t be fired and all I got was this stupid name
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, which countries are doing worse than the US on handling the virus? We are an exceptional nation and I think we are first in infections, first in deaths, in actual numbers And first in both categorizes per million in population.
    The Italians and Spaniards are weak 2nd and 3rd place and are not at allin our class.

  107. EOS
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    Somehow Robert thinks I’m taking innocent lives by staying in my bunker. Whats up with that?

    We’ll see whose heads will explode when most of Obama’s administration gets indicted. Boom. Sorry Sheeple, but that’s what happens when you blindly follow CNN and MSNBC. The tears will be flowing even worse than on election night.

  108. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    You’re head is already exploding, EOS….in super slow-mo.

    Nobody from the Obama administration is going to jail. Get a clue. You’re a cultist freak. Get to your Jonestown moment already.

  109. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

    You must be one annoying fucker in real life, iRobert. You had built some amount of goodwill as far as I am concerned but now you are proving what an ignorant asshole you are. You think there is no danger even though there are criminal investigations on them right now and they have spawned grand juries. To call another human being an idiot for understanding that when you do not even follow current events is terrible.

  110. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

    Let’s wager on all this, wise guys. We!ll make charities the beneficiaries. That should be no problem for you, unless somewhere in those cultist minds you actually do have some sense of reality.

  111. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

    What happened to all those sealed indictments, HW? Still waiting, huh. No sense at all you’ve been suckered eh?

  112. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 8:28 pm | Permalink

    I’ll bet you there are grand juries for Obama officials. I’m not saying when they will start getting torn up though. I don’t want some annoying fucker nagging me about it every day.

  113. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

    It’s happening now you dumb motherfucker. They are about to get served. How annoying. You haven’t kept up with the damning Flynn documents being released or one fucking thing. Just shut. The fuck. Up.

  114. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

    We can set a month in the future when you calculate any of this shit will actually bare fruit. Then I won’t nag you. The loser will just be required to make a donation to the others favorite charity (in the winners name if you’d like).

  115. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 8:35 pm | Permalink

    Aww, you’re hurting my feelings now, HW. You’re such a meanie. You may need a bigger dose, bruh.

  116. Jean Henry
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

    Oh this will be a joy to watch not unfold.

  117. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

    Stupidity is an offensive form of dumbness.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/22/politics/barr-russia-investigation-durham-election-day/index.html

  118. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

    I think my proposed wager is pretty fair. And it doesn’t involve boot licking or any other repulsive humiliation.

    Seems like a decent way to settle this. Having a charity benefit makes it all seem alright.

  119. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

    I’m the one that doles out the shut the fuck up pills. I’ve done it over and over and no one from here has gotten one thing against me in nearly four years. I never had to stfu. When Flynn is exonerated that will be just another one.

  120. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

    I know you’ve done well, HW. I know you do your homework too. I’m not even offended that you direct such nasty comments toward me.

  121. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    Nope, it’s change your name if you are wrong like stupid name had to. I don’t have reason to trust you and I’m not automatically trusting of charities either.

  122. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

    How are you going to call what I said nasty after all the degrading comments you’ve made? Don’t be another Jean.

  123. iRobert
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

    I called your comments nasty just to be funny.

  124. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 6, 2020 at 9:25 pm | Permalink

    haha hoho

  125. Posted May 7, 2020 at 3:56 am | Permalink

    Are you guys excited about Plandemic?

    I am, especially to see the Bakersfield brain trust again.

  126. EOS
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 7:05 am | Permalink

    I just watched a Plandemic video. Who is Bakersfield?

  127. bet HW that McCabe wouldn’t be fired and all I got was this stupid name
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 7:19 am | Permalink

    Aloha reading this morning that having survived the virus (even asymptotic ) are permanently banned from serving in the military. Do they know or suspect simething about the virus they are not sharing?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/coronavirus-survivors-permanently-disqualified-from-joining-us-military/ar-BB13I8in?li=BBnb7Kz

  128. bet HW that McCabe wouldn’t be fired and all I got was this stupid name
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 9:01 am | Permalink

    Aloha, the Death Cult has been latching onto a video by a Dr (?) Judy Mickovits. She is a typical leader of the Death Cult. Got caught fabricating evidence, repudiated by everyone who attempted to Replicate “her work”. Her phd degree may have been revoked because of the criminal nature of her fraud.

    Cool graph showing how US response stacks up with other countries
    https://www.axios.com/us-coronavirus-italy-spain-reopening-cases-deaths-55ba1472-42a9-4806-bee0-ed50072f4326.html

  129. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 9:06 am | Permalink

    Cool graph showing how US response stacks up?

  130. EOS
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    Aloha Wobblie,

    There is likely a lot of things they are not telling us about this virus. A recruit would be disqualified if it were thought an infection were chronic and that there could be a resurgence at any time. A retrovirus like HIV is a RNA virus that makes a DNA copy that hides in a cell and can “flare up”. Coronavirus is a positive RNA virus. It doesn’t make a DNA copy and shouldn’t be able to become a long term latent infection.

    Persons infected with COVID-19 can test negative, and then test positive again a month or two later. How is this happening?

    A significant number of persons have antibodies for COVID, but have never been sick? Will they get sick at a later time or are they immune? People get colds over and over. Will the COVID mutate each year and keep infecting people over and over?

    The person in the Plandemic video has been jailed for publishing papers that state many vaccines are contaminated with a retrovirus that is associated with cancer and other chronic illnesses. This person thinks that the harmful effects of COVID occur in patients that have a pre-existing retroviral infection.

    There is precedence for vaccines containing viral contamination. The polio vaccines were originally infected with SV40 virus which is associated with cancer. This person might be a nut job, but I can’t imagine a scientist in America being jailed and prohibited from publishing their work. Is this even true?

  131. bet HW that McCabe wouldn’t be fired and all I got was this stupid name
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 9:29 am | Permalink

    Aloha EOS you know how science is brutally honest because of the continuous self policing that occurs. The Death Cult is based on irrationality and repudiation of truth.
    Just keep telling yourself it is just like the flu and get back to work.

  132. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    There are all kinds of horrible ingredients LISTED in vaccines. To think there are people walking around who aren’t even paid off trying to force others to take them is incomprehensible.

  133. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    There are all kinds of horrible ingredients LISTED in vaccines. To think there are people walking around who aren’t even paid off trying to force others to take them is incomprehensible.

  134. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 9:47 am | Permalink

    Wobblie,

    You don’t seem to know the difference from a “cool graph” and an “obviously misleading graph”. Yet we should think of you as Mr Science Man?

  135. EOS
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    Wobblie,

    I know that science is plagued with bias caused by funding pressures. Those who replicate and confirm the work of persons on NIH funding committees get funded while those who disprove previous work get denied. I know that Big Pharma spends billions to promote their patented “cures”. I know that they are pulling out all stops to increase the numbers of reported COVID cases. And I know that Bill Gates is promoting mandatory vaccines that contain tracker chips.

    I’m really disappointed. I was going to retire and write the next Great American novel about scientific fraud and a viral outbreak but watching the COVID response unfold is better than fiction.

  136. bet HW that McCabe wouldn’t be fired and all I got was this stupid name
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    Aloha that is why it is important to pay attention to scientific developments in countries that are not under the control of our profit driven monopoly capitalism, the thing that makes America oh so exceptional.
    Now that both US scientist at Los Alamos and Chinese virologist report similar results concerning the virus mutating, we can probably believe that science.

    FF you know Im a dolt with only a high school diploma— 190th out of 380 in my class. My wife (summa cum laude EMU, Phd Ecology and Evoluionary biology U of M , associate prof) is the brains of the family. The yang of caution to my ying of recklessness.
    What is misleading about the graph?

  137. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 10:22 am | Permalink

    It does not incorporate different population sizes or different start times in the visual. 6X more people but only 4x more infections is a good thing.

  138. bet HW that McCabe wouldn’t be fired and all I got was this stupid name
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 10:51 am | Permalink

    Aloha FF “good thing” is a pretty subjective determination. The graph was not trying to demonstrate the things you wanted to see. The graph confirms what has also been experienced in China, Vietnam, Singapore, Hong Kong, New Zealand, and Iceland. Stay at home and social distancing are effective in crushing the virus. We see that same dynamic in localities in this country (San Fransisco, New York, SE Michigan) that have been aggressive with stay at home.
    The Death Cult is committed to following the leaders dictates so by mid-summer we will be in worse shape than now.
    The Death Cult is already reduced to arguing about body counts. The hallmark of failed policies everywhere through time.

  139. bet HW that McCabe wouldn’t be fired and all I got was this stupid name
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    Aloha, now I know why the Leader thinks we all can get tested anytime we want, he and his staff. Are tested weekly.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/07/politics/trump-valet-tests-positive-covid-19/index.html?fbclid=IwAR0hSfvtmTIx1Hke-l7tYkXrrUaIU7a6EUHorYcF53XE4A0ACZWry5Qxmus

  140. EOS
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    Wobblie,

    Are you aware that Dr. Fauci provided funding to the Wuhan lab to perform Gain of Function experiments that were prohibited in the U.S.?

  141. EOS
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    Our funding corrupts worldwide.

  142. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 11:23 am | Permalink

    Wobblie,

    When comparing different responses the responses that yield less infections per capita are the better responses. Better response is good. Yes or no?

    You play with words. You pretend like you understand science. Being a cheerleader for science may have helped insure your survival in your household but it does nothing for the rest of us trying to figure out appropriate courses of action.

    Regarding: “The graph was not trying to demonstrate the things you wanted to see.”

    That you seem to think “science” is a rarely tainted enterprise is a wild as hell thing to think.

  143. Jean Henry
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

    https://www.politicususa.com/2020/05/06/yale-epidemiologist-u-s-handling-of-coronavirus-awfully-close-to-genocide-by-default.html
    Gregg Gonsalves @gregggonsalves

    How many people will die this summer, before Election Day? What proportion of the deaths will be among African-Americans, Latinos, other people of color? This is getting awfully close to genocide by default. What else do you call mass death by public policy? #COVID19 #coronavirus
    …a short Twitter thread highlighting what he called the federal government’s negligence in the face of a global pandemic. He did not refer to President Donald Trump by name. So, what does it mean to let thousands die by negligence, omission, failure to act, in a legal sense under international law?” Gonsalves asked. “And I am being serious here: what is happening in the US is purposeful, considered negligence, omission, failure to act by our leaders.”

  144. bet HW that McCabe wouldn’t be fired and all I got was this stupid name
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, EOS yes I am aware that the CDC and the NIAID engaged in cooperative research eith Chinese research institutions on corona viruses and their ability to jump between species.
    Are you aware that in this century numerous viruses have leapt between species. Covid -1 Covid-2, MERS have jumped to humans. Many others have leapt to various livestock species. Most recently Chinese swine and poultry industries were devastated by new viruses that had jumped species.
    Trying to understand the mechanism of how this occurs seems like an important public health and sound economic policy.
    Our great Leader thought otherwise, and we all get to pay.

  145. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    “This is getting awfully close to genocide by default. What else do you call mass death by public policy? ”

    Oh look, another no substance attack. I would be embarrassed to put out an opinion like that without highlighting any particular policy.

  146. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

    Flynn free! What up, Barky? Who is “unsophisticated” now??? …All you suckers that talked shit when I told you years ago this would happen….

  147. Jean Henry
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    HW— Flynn is not free. The move still needs to be approved by a judge, which it will be.

    The issue is not whether or not Flynn lied. He did; that’s established. The issue is that they didn’t have cause to investigate him and his misstatements were unrelated to the investigation.

    This is Barr’s DOJ. There was at least one person who quit in protest. We’ll see if justice was served or just Trump.

    What makes you think more will follow? Or does your entire faith rely on Barr’s corruption?

  148. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 6:10 pm | Permalink

    The FBI found that he did not lie so you lie. When the plaintiff moves to dismiss their own case I guess the defendant is free. What can a judge do without a case?

  149. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

    You are probably one of the ones who said I was deluded or some shit when I told you Flynn would be fine and would not flip on the President because there is nothing to flip about. They wanted him to lie about the President but he wouldn’t do it.

  150. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

    “The issue is that they didn’t have cause to investigate him and his misstatements were unrelated to the investigation.”

    https://youtu.be/MzGSpFMegmc

  151. Sad
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    Yeah.

    I’m really concerned about Flynn.

    Top of my list as far as important issues.

  152. Jean Henry
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

    Michael Flynn pleads guilty twice; the DOJ drops the charges. >>
    HW and FF see that as proof that he was innocent and the victim of Deep State corruption instead of its beneficiary…

  153. Jean Henry
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

    The FBI made no determination that he did not lie; they simply said he didn’t;t lie about the area of investigation. They found the lies weren’t relevant to the case and that he was improperly questioned in the first place. The case was thrown out; he was not exonerated.

  154. iRobert
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 7:27 pm | Permalink

    It’s a fun momentary distraction from thinking about Trump’s monumental failure in dealing with the pandemic anyway. I’m glad we can help the Trumpanzees put off their inevitable head explosions and Jonestown moment.

  155. Sad
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 7:29 pm | Permalink

    At least we don’t have to deal with Art Fair this year.

    Probably no football Saturday’s either.

  156. Posted May 7, 2020 at 7:44 pm | Permalink

    Sad, there is always a silver lining!

  157. iRobert
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

    Which day next week do you think the ICUs around the country will be reporting the surge is back?

  158. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

    This has been well known for a long time. Jean, your propaganda sucks. It never works.

    https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/386323-house-intel-report-comey-mccabe-testified-that-the-two-agents-who

    The report says McCabe, in particular, testified that the two agents who interviewed Flynn “didn’t think he was lying.”

    Despite the agents’ initial impressions, McCabe reportedly testified that officials found that Flynn’s statements to investigators were “inconsistent” with their “understanding of the conversation that he had actually had with the ambassador.”

  159. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

    Dumbfuckday, iRobert. That’s what day next week they will do that.

  160. Sad
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think the rolling surges will start until the 18th.

    Not in Michigan’s again until the end of June.

    Is there a surge betting site?

  161. iRobert
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

    Are you suggesting it won’t happen, or that people who don’t practice social distancing are dumbfucks, HW?

    Are you excited about the Plandemic movie, like EOS is, HW?

  162. iRobert
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 8:30 pm | Permalink

    You can watch it here, if you haven’t seen it yet:

    https://www.bitchute.com/video/IB3ijQuLkkUr/

  163. Posted May 7, 2020 at 8:42 pm | Permalink

    I have decided that it is just easier for some people to believe anything other than the fact that they voted for Trump has led to tens of thousands of people dying who otherwise would not have.

  164. iRobert
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 8:55 pm | Permalink

    Have you watched the Plandemic movie, Sad, or Lynne? It’s all the rage.

  165. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

    I’m saying you are a dumbfuck for insisting you know how this shit is going to go. There is no reason to believe the numbers anyway. You know they are counting non-covid deaths as covid. What is up with only old sick people getting fucked up by it but really bad anyway? A virus that spares children but just mows down old folks in giant swaths; weird.

  166. iRobert
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 8:59 pm | Permalink

    Remember IHME, HW?

    Remember what you said?

  167. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

    What about it? What did you say? 100’s of thousands dead, right?

  168. iRobert
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

    I’ll remind you.

    When I said there was no chance the deaths would max at 60,000, you said…

    “So zero chance the IHME is correct in their latest projection then according to iRobert. You must have awesome power to know that. iRobert the Awesome.”

    Have you forgotten?

    Their projection is now 134,000+. That makes me iRobert the Awesome, no? I must have had some awesome power to know that, no?

  169. iRobert
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

    GOP-run states, counties and municipalities are just now starting to get the spread of the virus. Their reaction is generally different than how the big metropolitan areas have been responding. You’re about to see a shit show.

  170. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

    So what? All I said is that was their projection. It’s not attached to me in any way. You had 100% confidence against them and I didn’t. No problem for me, Mr. Awesome. You finally got something right!

  171. Sad
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 9:41 pm | Permalink

    We do know that there is a lot we don’t know.

    Maybe HW is right and it’ll only take out old people.

    Maybe Mayor Pete will make a comeback.

  172. iRobert
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 9:44 pm | Permalink

    I’m getting the sealed indictments issue right also. In three and a half years they haven’t been unsealed. And they won’t be. The sealed indictments are used to keep tens of thousands of certain people in line. It’s a mass extortion-for-control operation.

  173. iRobert
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 9:47 pm | Permalink

    When did you start commenting on this blog, HW? We’re you around for the Davonte Sanford threads? Those would make interesting reading for you.

  174. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 9:49 pm | Permalink

    Too bad the latest projection is still a small fraction of the 2.2 million deaths that were predicted if it was uncontrolled. I think that tends to imply the actions of the President had a dramatic impact.

  175. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 9:52 pm | Permalink

    I don’t know who that is. I first posted here Oct. ’16.

    Mass indictments used for blackmail? Okay there.

  176. iRobert
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 9:53 pm | Permalink

    I’m also interested in getting your take on the Plandemic video, HW. Have you seen it?

    You can watch it here:
    https://www.bitchute.com/video/IB3ijQuLkkUr/

  177. iRobert
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

    Mass indictments used to keep everyone on the same page….to keep everyone in lockstep. That’s why you haven’t seen them unsealed in three-and-a-half years, and won’t ever see them unsealed. They’re a weapon, not the prelude to some act of justice.

  178. iRobert
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 10:00 pm | Permalink

    I agree, HW, that Trump’s order to restrict flights coming in from China helped slow the initial spread, especially on the west coast. I think it’s clear that the mitigation orders on the state and local levels has had the greatest impact in slowing the spread and flattening the curve, however.

  179. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    I’ve heard from Mikovits in recent weeks already. I don’t know if her research is good or shoddy like they say. I don’t think you understand. I don’t have a knee jerk reaction to everything. Like those protestors with arms at the Capitol: they could be agent provocateurs. Mikovits could be put out there to discredit true information that belies the narrative.

    Do you think it is true Fauci directed funding to the Wuhan lab?

  180. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 10:04 pm | Permalink

    Trump directed all Americans to practice social distancing.

  181. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 10:05 pm | Permalink

    Without infringing on our Constitutional rights I might add as governors have done.

  182. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

    “Mass indictments used to keep everyone on the same page….to keep everyone in lockstep. That’s why you haven’t seen them unsealed in three-and-a-half years, and won’t ever see them unsealed. They’re a weapon, not the prelude to some act of justice.”

    How is Trump keeping anyone in lockstep? They are in lockstep against him.

  183. EOS
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 10:09 pm | Permalink

    @Robert,

    Sealed indictments could be used as a weapon only if the individuals had committed criminal acts for which they feared they could be convicted. So are you saying they committed crimes but will never be indicted because the shadow government/deep state would never allow it?

  184. iRobert
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 10:14 pm | Permalink

    It’s not Trump that is behind the sealed indictments. We’d have to know a lot more detail about those indictments to make an educated guess as to who is using it and for what ends.

    On that Plandemic video, it seems EOS is on board with its assertions. I haven’t looked much at the details and can’t say what Fauci has or hasn’t done.

  185. iRobert
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 10:20 pm | Permalink

    EOS: “Sealed indictments could be used as a weapon only if the individuals had committed criminal acts for which they feared they could be convicted.”

    That’s not entirely true. People are often falsely accused. Some accusations may just expose something the target doesn’t want public. We would have to analyze the actual accusations and evidence to know the answers to these questions. I’m confident we will never be privy to that information, because I’m confident control is the function of filing these sealed indictments. Have any of them been unsealed at all? If any have we may be able to gather clues from that.

  186. iRobert
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 10:32 pm | Permalink

    Fauci doesn’t strike me as a monster at all. I’m sure he works in cooperation with labs all over the world on a regular basis. If anything nefarious has occurred relating to the origins of this pandemic, I don’t know that we can assume he’s culpable in some way just because he works with that global research community.

  187. EOS
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 10:51 pm | Permalink

    I watched the video. It’s the first I heard of this. You are wrong to say I am on board with all it contains. I do think her claims should be investigated by an honest researcher. It just didn’t pop up during this pandemic. Here’s an interview from 4 years ago: https://www.collective-evolution.com/2016/02/24/20-million-americans-likely-infected-with-retrovirus-at-the-root-of-multiple-chronic-diseases/

    Fauci suppressed her work. Gave huge grants to an individual who said it was wrong by publishing a paper that said he couldn’t replicate her results. She turned over all the patient samples to the FBI as evidence. She got fired for standing behind her research. She claims that the cell lines that vaccines are grown in are contaminated with a certain type of retrovirus and this is causing a number of diseases. It is not outside the realm of possibilities.

  188. EOS
    Posted May 7, 2020 at 11:05 pm | Permalink

    https://www.disabledveterans.org/2020/03/11/flu-vaccine-increases-coronavirus-risk/

    In support of her claim, she thinks vaccines are contaminated with a retrovirus and those persons who have the retrovirus and get COVID-19 do worse. The VA study above found an increased risk for Coronavirus infection in vets who got the flu vaccine. Hmmm. (FYI – this doesn’t prove anything)

  189. iRobert
    Posted May 8, 2020 at 6:06 am | Permalink

    I wouldn’t be surprised if people who had gotten a flu shot were rendered vulnerable to other disease as a consequence.

  190. EOS
    Posted May 8, 2020 at 6:27 am | Permalink

    Robert,

    If you watched the video you missed the point. The title may have misled you. She is not saying Fauci planned the COVID pandemic. She says the cell lines used to make all/many/most ? vaccines are contaminated with a virus that causes cancer and multiple other immune diseases, and when coinfected with COVID, it is what is causing serious illness and death.

    And there is other evidence on the internet that confirms she was arrested and jailed for trying to publish the work that proves this. If true, these facts would be devastating to Big Pharma and would cost billions in profits. She is highly educated, published a large number of papers, and worked at the highest levels of research in the country.

    Maybe she is psychotic, has gone off the deep end. Or maybe she is right and her career was destroyed by persons who don’t want to disturb the status quo and lose the billions in profits. I don’t know.

  191. iRobert
    Posted May 8, 2020 at 6:44 am | Permalink

    The video does suggest Fauci is involved in something nefarious. That wasn’t the main point of the video, but it was certainly one of the points being put forward.

  192. iRobert
    Posted May 8, 2020 at 6:53 am | Permalink

    There are a number of unsupportable assertions put forward in the video. That doesn’t strengthen the main point. It undermines the credibility of the filmmakers considerably.

  193. EOS
    Posted May 8, 2020 at 7:18 am | Permalink

    What do you think the main point is? Can you list some of the unsupportable conclusions? I think the filmmakers likely don’t Have a clue what she is talking about. It’s her credibility that is essential.

  194. EOS
    Posted May 8, 2020 at 7:32 am | Permalink

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/tarahaelle/2020/05/08/why-its-important-to-push-back-on-plandemic-and-how-to-do-it/#477c82eb5fa3

    I found this. It is itself an emotional argument. I will follow the links and see if there is factual information that disputes her claims.

  195. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 8, 2020 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    “FF, do you not understand that the mitigation efforts have reduced the need for ventilators?”

    Yes, I believe that is correct. I just think there are a lot of moving parts. Even if we had a billion ventilators it seems like we would need to use mitigation efforts anyway. 80% are dying who go on ventilators anyway—which I was surprised to learn recently. It is starting to look like every community this touches ends up having a bell shaped curved looking infection and death rate. I suppose that is a bit of good news, especially for people that have been hit hard already…I do wonder how it is going to effect all of us when it hits the not yet hit hard states/ communities…. I am really curious about how the Sweden experiment ends up. I am really curious if there people who have had it develop an immunity. Until we figure those things out I am fine with continuing to follow the guidelines for mitigation.

  196. Anonymous
    Posted May 8, 2020 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

    Rick Bright has been reinstated.

    “A federal watchdog backed the temporary reinstatement of a top scientist who was ousted after questioning the Trump administration’s virus response.

    A federal investigative office has found “reasonable grounds” to examine whether the Trump administration was retaliating against a whistle-blower, Dr. Rick Bright, when he was ousted from a government research agency combating the coronavirus, his lawyers said Friday.”

  197. iRobert
    Posted May 10, 2020 at 6:13 am | Permalink

    Apparently, the SARS-CoV-2 virus is unusual in a number of ways. With regard to the lungs, it is suppressing the blood oxygenation process, and not simply inhibiting lung capacity. It also attacks both lungs simultaneously which is not so common with other viral infections. These are the main reasons the ventilators have met with limited success. Still, they are making the difference in a number of cases.

    Systems for more directly oxygenating the blood will be the more appropriate treatment which gets a higher number of critical patients through the worst of the virus’s attack on the lungs.

  198. Posted May 14, 2020 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    New US coronavirus hotspots appear in Republican heartlands

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/13/new-us-coronavirus-hotspots-republican-heartland-areas

    (From The Guardian)

    Here comes Dumbfuck Day.

  199. Posted May 14, 2020 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

    Wisconsin bars packed with patrons almost immediately after court strikes down stay-at-home order

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/wisconsin-bars-packed-supreme-court-stay-at-home-strikes-down/

    (From CBS News)

    Don’t protest in Michigan. Move to Wisconsin.

  200. Sad
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

    Maybe it’s not so bad.

    Georgia seems OK.

    Right?

    Maybe we’re over reacting.

    We were wrong about major Pete.

    We’re putting all our hope on Biden.

    Who knows?

  201. iRobert
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

    I assume you’re being sarcastic, Sad.

  202. iRobert
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 6:53 am | Permalink

    US daily death tolls have exceeded 1,000 on 4 of the last 5 days. That is after we had several days well below 1,000.

  203. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 1, 2020 at 7:12 am | Permalink

    Remember the lil lesson on ‘trends’ and how it is ‘trending down’? That.

  204. Posted October 30, 2020 at 6:18 am | Permalink

    Here are the 7-day moving averages of U.S. daily death totals:

    October
    15th: 711
    16th: 715
    17th: 704
    18th: 726
    19th: 743
    20th: 758
    21st: 793
    22nd: 808
    23rd: 804
    24th: 823
    25th: 818
    26th: 828
    27th: 844
    28th: 817
    29th: 828

    That.

    Moron.

  205. Posted October 30, 2020 at 7:13 am | Permalink

    Your snarky lil ass was handed to you at the outset of the summer surge in the south, and I’m handing it to you again now as the autumn surge occurs in the north.

  206. Posted October 30, 2020 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    iRobert, these are growing numbers despite our medical pro’s doing a much better job at keeping the seriously ill alive. In the spring something like 25% of those who went on a ventilator died. Now it is down to around 8-10%. Of course in rural areas where there are no real hospitals it doesn’t matter much.

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