Just how bad is this armed, pro-Trump protest in Lansing going to be?

Apparently, the first two armed protests in Lansing weren’t sufficient. A third is scheduled for tomorrow, and, judging from what we’re seeing on social media, and in the press, it promises to be even more insane. Here, to give you a sense of what’s floating around on Facebook, is an excerpt from a recent Metro Times article by our old friend Steve Neavling of Motor City Muckraker fame. Neavling, who joined several private Facebook groups associated with Michigan United for Liberty and Michiganders Against Excessive Quarantine over the past week or so, has done a great job cataloging the violent threats against Governor Whitmer, a few of which you can see above.

…Assassinating Whitmer is a common theme among members of the groups. Dozens of people have called for her to be hanged.

“We need a good old fashioned lynch mob to storm the Capitol, drag her tyrannical ass out onto the street and string her up as our forefathers would have,” John Campbell Sr. wrote in a group called “People of Michigan vs. Gov. Gretchen Whitmer,” which had nearly 9,000 members as of Monday morning.

Steve Doxsie had the same idea: “Drag that tyrant governor out to the front lawn. Fit her for a noose.”

“Either President Trump sends in the troops or there is going to be a midnight lynching in Lansing soon,” Michael Smith chimed in.

Others suggested she be shot, beaten, or beheaded.

“Plain and simple she needs to eat lead and send a statement to the rest of the democrats that they are next,” James Greena, of Fennville, wrote…

“Wonder how long till she’s hit with a shotgun blast,” Chris Parrish wrote.

Matthew Woodruff had another idea: “Can we please just take up a collection for an assassin to put that woman from Michigan down,” he asked…

Appearing on The View today, Whitmer, when asked about these increasingly threatening protests targeting her, didn’t pull any punches. She referred to them as not only “not appropriate in a global pandemic,” but also both “racist” and “misogynistic”. [Speaking of which, how many confederate flags do you think we’ll see in Lansing tomorrow?] And, on Meet the Press, she alluded the fact that these protests aren’t exactly organic in nature, but funded and orchestrated by wealthy Trump supporters across the country.

As for her point about these protests not being appropriate during a pandemic, it was mentioned in Salon today that, in a recent call with Mike Pence, Whitmer relayed to the Vice President that, after the earlier gatherings of people in Lansing, we saw evidence that protesters took COVID-19 back with them to their rural communities in Michigan. “We have seen from initial protests here is that we’ve got COVID-19 spreading in rural parts of our state, from which people traveled,” Whitmer told him. This, of course, didn’t stop Donald Trump from tweeting his support for the protesters, urging them on in their quest to “Liberate Michigan.”

Ironically, as Whitmer pointed out today, protests like the one planned for tomorrow, which was designed to put pressure on legislators to re-open the state sooner, will most likely have the opposite effect, as they’ll further spread the disease, forcing her to extend the stay-at-home order. [The Michigan State Police are urging protesters to wear masks tomorrow, to help stop the spread of the disease, but it’s unlikely that many will.]

For what it’s worth, the protestors aren’t the only ones who seem to be taking tomorrow’s event seriously. Michigan’s Attorney General put out word today that the Ingham County Prosecutor’s Office would do what’s necessary to ensure that the protests are “peaceful and free of violence and intimidation.” [Speaking of intimidation, during the last protest, men with assault weapons went into the State Senate chamber.] And the Michigan State Police took to social media to remind people that they’d better not start pointing their fucking guns at people.

And this brings me to the main point of this post. I wanted to share this phone number from the Michigan State Police. It’s the number that, in simpler times, they used to share when asking people to report the suspicious activities of people who they thought could be foreign terrorists. Today, they’re sharing the number aggressively on social media in the context of tomorrow’s event in Lansing… which tells me that they’re taking all of the social media threats seriously. So, if you should see something, please call. And, if you know someone heading to Lansing to protest the fact that we have a Governor who cares about public health, please urge them to just stay home, OK?

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184 Comments

  1. Bob
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 5:54 am | Permalink

    I joined the Michigan libertarians and Stand Up For Michigan groups on Facebook just so I could see what they were up to. That kicked me out pretty quickly. These people are fucking nuts.

  2. John Brown
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 6:19 am | Permalink

    Lt Duwayne Robinson would be justified smokin any of these damn fascists pawns the second they get agitated while displaying guns. But brandishing is an archaic useless term with a pistol grip rifle that can go from ready safe carry to on target firing nearly instantly. Muddy ass place to put cops and depend on them to sort it out.

  3. iRobert
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 7:12 am | Permalink

    If you’re a jogger, and you’re black, maybe put off that morning run until tomorrow. The Trumpanzee Militia isn’t known for their discernment capabilities.

  4. Bob
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 7:21 am | Permalink

    As a kid who first learned what a protest was from seeing footage of Kent State and Vietnam demonstrations, it’s pretty weird to be pulling for law enforcement at this point. But that’s the reality. Those poor cops shouldn’t have to face maskless idiots brandishing AK’s and screaming in their faces. Spoiled, suburban whiteys no less. I wouldn’t blame the cops for shooting a few.

  5. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 7:34 am | Permalink

    You ought to be fairly comfortable with calls for assassination considering your comment section.

  6. bet HW that McCabe wouldn’t be fired and all I got was this stupid name
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 7:37 am | Permalink

    Aloha, the new Trump virus normal. Ignorance is bliss.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-14/fourth-usda-inspector-dies-from-virus-amid-meat-plant-outbreaks?srnd=premium

  7. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 8:00 am | Permalink

    How do you think it is the Trump Virus if it came from a lab in Wuhan and the President acted early to stop it?

  8. bet HW that McCabe wouldn’t be fired and all I got was this stupid name
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 8:07 am | Permalink

    Aloha HW when your Leader called for the “liberation” of Michigan he made the virus his. Every excess death caused by his incitement to violate the health and safety emergency are his deaths as assuredly as yelling fire in a crowed theater.
    If you knew how to read a graph and understood concepts like incubation period, viral transmission and other important concept that Q failed to share, you would not be asking questions that have obvious answers.

  9. Eel
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 8:07 am | Permalink

    Narrator’s voice: “It didn’t come from a lab in Wuhan, and the Donald Trump didn’t acted early to stop it.”

  10. Eel
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    God has responded by sending severe weather.

  11. Bob
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 8:29 am | Permalink

    My peace and love days are over HDumbs. Your people crossed over the line of human decency one too many times. I hope you all end up sick and dead with the virus or shot by a responsible law enforcement person. Fuck you guys.

  12. EOS
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 8:39 am | Permalink

    What is this “your people” shit? I don’t have any people. I don’t control the behaviors of others. No one who regularly posts here is arming themselves and going to the capital today.

    But I do think you just crossed over the line of human decency by wishing others get sick and die. We are all in this together.

  13. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 8:45 am | Permalink

    “when your Leader called for the “liberation” of Michigan he made the virus his.”

    That’s retarded.

  14. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    Oh no more Mr. Nice Guy, huh? I’m terrified. You’re REALLY going to do something now.

  15. Sad
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 9:00 am | Permalink

    Too early to draw conclusions.

    Maybe they are right and the virus will just fade away.

    Time will tell who understood the reality of the virus.

  16. Jean Henry
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    EOS– You have defended the position of the protestors. You have taken a side. That said has people in it, so you have people.

    If you want to go foreswear violence as you so often do here, why don’t you go to one f their forums and do so. As someone on their side, you may have some influence.

    What are you doing here arguing with liberals when you could be doing something actually useful elsewhere?

  17. iRobert
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    Now that the Wisconsin GOP has overturned the mitigation orders there, we get to watch Cheeseheads get overwhelmed by the virus next week.

    Thank you, Trunpanzees.

  18. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    Is it Dumbfucksday yet, iRobert?

  19. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    “You have defended the position of the protestors. You have taken a side. That said has people in it, so you have people.”

    You don’t think in anything but generalities. I know for myself that I don’t vouch for anyone in particular. Some of the protestors could be agent provocateurs. That last one kind of stunk with the pictures of the one guy in all the different media. Some others might have opinions I don’t share. If you are going to do that then you are responsible for the violence by anti-Trumpers.

  20. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    Two sides? You have allowed yourself to be brainwashed, Jean.

  21. EOS
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    No, stop lying. Never made a single comment about the protesters. I am responsible for my own actions and no others.

    Not everyone believes in sorting individuals into various groups and then holding everyone in the group accountable for the actions of any individual in the group. It is fallacious thinking.

    Everything you post is an attack of another individual or a lie about them. From now on you a just a cricket chirping. Background noise that no one pays attention to.

  22. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    If you disagree with us you are the enemy?

  23. EOS
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    Robert,

    If Wisconsin does well in the next month, will you leave the darkness?

  24. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    Has Jean read any good books warning us about authoritarianism lately?

  25. Bob
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    I would have to buy or steal a gun to personally shoot you, HDerp. I never suggested any such thing. But the fact is that Q-addled, dum-dum Trumpeters like you are directly to blame for spreading a virus of conspiracy theories, paranoia and outright lies that has cost thousands of lives. Tens of thousands. Who knows how many, ultimately. It isn’t a question of will more people get sick and die, but who will. And I hope it’s your people. You sick fucking liars. You should be the ones to suffer the worst of it. You and Trump are responsible. I wouldn’t waste a tear on the entire extended Trump and Kuschner family if they die. Or you. Sorry pally.

  26. bet HW that McCabe wouldn’t be fired and all I got was this stupid name
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    Aloha looks like only about 100 people skowed up for the covid party in Lansing.

    Out of the 300000 deaths world wide the US accounts for 85000 28% of the total. Way to go Donnie, MAGA.

  27. John Brown
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 10:10 am | Permalink

    Bob, thanks to EOS, FF, and HWs voting priorities, they are responsible for the fact that hypothetically I can legally sell you a gun with no background check, for a $1 if I want. You can even pay me later if you’re short on cash, and I can throw in enough ammo to get you started. No records whatsoever, other than some crazy conspiracy theorists claiming to have heard the deal go down on some disreputable blog.

    These agent orange traitors rationalizing not being responsible for the sick shit they been voting for is some top shelf mass psychosis.

  28. Demetrius
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    I don’t agree with everything the Governor has done, but I respect that she’s tried to make wise decisions aimed at keeping people safe during an unprecedented and rapidly evolving crisis.

    And, polls show that upwards of 70 percent of Michigan residents agree, in general, with her approach – preferring a “go slow” approach to re-opening in order to help protect our elderly and medically-challenged fellow citizens.

    If our state bows to a vocal (armed) minority of its citizens, we will have reached a critical turning point in accepted norms, and the rule of law, that will have broader long-term consequences.

    Once we begin to accept that the rights of business owners can’t be limited due to COVID-19, what’s to say that other health- and safety-related laws shouldn’t be scrapped as well? Tattoo shops spreading hepatitis? No problem. Restaurants serving e-coli and salmonella? Too bad. Meat-packing plants grinding up God-knows-what into our hamburgers and hot dogs? Oh well …

    Likewise, if state authorities are cowered into watering down or eliminating other measures (impacting individual citizens) that are designed hinder the spread of infections, and protect the general public – we’re liable to not only prolong the current crisis, but will invite future disaster. Experience from the 1918 flu epidemic, and dozens of others around the world, show that only robust public health measures – quarantines, lock-downs, contact tracing, etc. – are capable of quelling such outbreaks. Who’s to say the next pandemic won’t be just as contagious – but even more deadly? (COVID-19’s cousin virus SARS had a death rate of nearly 10%; MERS an astounding 34%).

    If in the future we end up being faced with a widespread, deadly outbreak, will we be hindered in our response because this time, we decided that the “rights” of a small minority are more important that the health and well-being of the vast majority?

  29. iRobert
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    HW, it isn’t Dumbfuck Day yet by my estimation. I heard this morning that the lag between exposure and hospitalization for the worst cases is about eight days.

    Nashville, Des Moines and parts of Kentucky might qualify as hitting their Dumbfuck Day now.

  30. iRobert
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 10:22 am | Permalink

    EOS,

    I’m not the one between the two of us who has difficulty answering simple questions asked of them.

    The summer weather may postpone the worst of this pandemic, but not later than October. I wouldn’t count on a state that far north not experiencing a resurge of this Spring wave of this virus.

  31. iRobert
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 10:26 am | Permalink

    I’m not like you and HW. If I had predicted tens of thousands of sealed indictments were going to be unsealed for the past two years, I would have admitted by now that I was duped. You two idiots are going to stick with that obvious bullshit for as long as it takes for you to be provided with a bullshit excuse as to why it didn’t happen.

    A month ago, HW was pretending, along with his hero, that the death toll might end at 50,000. He hasn’t admitted he was an idiot for suggesting that, and I know he never will.

  32. bet HW that McCabe wouldn’t be fired and all I got was this stupid name
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 10:32 am | Permalink

    Aloha, and yet another reason to name it the Trump virus
    https://mobile.twitter.com/RepDebDingell/status/1260926827528404993

  33. Bob
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    John Brown, thanks for the kind offer. Can you get me a good price on potato guns? I would love the opportunity to riddle HWimps pasty, chubby little buttocks with a bump stock, high velocity magazine of russet potato pellets. I know he generally goes for the bushel basket of fingerlings up his ass for fun with the Mrs, but this should remain friendly. Not to mention that fingerlings are pricey. Not that he isn’t worth it but we all need to tighten our belts now that the Cheetoh Fuhrer has completely crashed the economy with his gross incompetence. Good talk!

  34. bet HW that McCabe wouldn’t be fired and all I got was this stupid name
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    Aloha. Winnebago County (Oshkosh) has had only 100 confirmed cases since March and has had only one death reported (April 6). Lets go and see what the place looks like 5 weeks from now.

  35. iRobert
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    “The surge is notably centered in Republican strongholds — like Texas, Tennessee, Alabama, Kentucky and the Dakotas — where governors have resisted imposing safe-at-home orders, or have relaxed them in an effort to revive business, The Guardian reported.”

    From Desert News

  36. Lynne
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    It isn’t just Trump voters who are culpable for the situation were are in. It is pretty much anyone who didn’t vote for HRC in 2016. She would have had a plan. She certainly would not have squandered the shutdown time. These protesters should be taking their guns to the Whitehouse.

    https://www.vox.com/2020/5/13/21255221/trump-coronavirus-plan-covid-reopening-lockdown-liberate

  37. iRobert
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    Remember the two Trumpanzees from Bakersfield comparing death totals from Sweden and Norway and saying there wasn’t a significant difference?

    Sweden is now over 3,529 deaths.

    Norway has reported 232 deaths.

  38. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 11:37 am | Permalink

    Voting differently from Cassandra is like committing murder and we all know what should be done with murderers right?

  39. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    iRobert,

    Different timelines. The Swedish experiment can only be judged after more time has passed. How is that not obvious? So, although the Bakersfield doctors had no right to judge the situation as they did, neither do you, right?

  40. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 11:49 am | Permalink

    When I look at Sweden’s “bell curve” it does not look promising compared to Norway’s bell curve which actually resembles a bell.

  41. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 11:50 am | Permalink

    iRobert, why do you harp about indictments when there is news about indictments in the Durham probe that I have talked about and you have not? Take some time to research something you (I guess?) think isn’t true but is factual. I read everything I can find if I can glean some value out of it; well versed in the leftist milieu by the way.

    The Durham probe is criminal in nature and centered on the investigation into “Russian meddling”. Correct?

  42. Sad
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

    Have they seized any phones in relation to the Obama investigation yet?

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/05/14/sen-richard-burrs-phone-seized-fbi-serves-warrant-stock-probe/5188726002/

  43. iRobert
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    I think you’re right a lot of the time, HW, or at least revealing some details others would rather avoid.

    But my point was that you never admit it when you are wrong.

    I have no doubt Dumbfuck Days are coming. I am certain the first wave of this pandemic will resurge at least slightly because of the complete lack of strategy in reopening the economy.

    I also have no doubt whatsoever that we are going to a shit show when the second wave of this pandemic hits in autumn. I am almost positive the federal government will not prepare for it, and will fail even more miserably than they have with the first wave.

    The administration is going to deal with the damaged economy with the same level of incompetence with which they dealt with this virus.

  44. iRobert
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

    FF,

    Norway will not suffer a big surge as long as they put in place testing and tracking. I have considerable confidence that they will. I also expect Sweden will do the same with some competence.

    My point with the Bakersfield brain-trust was that they are typical Trumpanzee morons. It was apparent on the face of it that what they were saying in their video was nonsense. That was my point. The Trumpanzees repeat the same moronic behavior over and over.

  45. Lynne
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

    FF, no. It isn’t like murder but the way people voted in 2016 did cause Trump to be elected and that outcome has caused people their lives. The reason I know that there is no karma in the world is that the Trump voters have not been as affected by this virus as others. It makes me angry and sad that there are so many deplorable people out there in our country who are as racist and sexist like you FF. It sucks that so many POC have to die because of it.

    I always chuckle when you start your patronizing “I am just trying to help you learn and grow” schtick. Trust me, I am working on my own racism and sexism. I have no interest in regressing to your level even if you are dumb enough to see that kind of regression as growth.

  46. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

    When people vote against Cassandra’s candidate there are negative consequences. The best a voter can do is to vote as Cassandra votes.

    Frosted Flakes cares about all people regardless of their race, sex or religion. I even care about brainwashed fools like bigot brain Cassandra. She is getting played everyday but it is not entirely her fault.

  47. Lynne
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

    The protestors in Lansing today are who you defend all the time, FF. you LOVE white men sticking to anyone you think is beneath white men (i.e. everyone) . That is why that shitty kid, Nick Sandmann is your hero. I expect you would have defended George Zimmerman too. disgusting. Truly.

    https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2020/05/video-doll-with-noose-prompts-fight-at-michigan-capitol-protest.html?fbclid=IwAR2saPZXtCPtR43gKQ2zk95LwS4qag-cAxztgl_EwlPKGuBJkNt58T8Dgls

  48. Lynne
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

    FF, you clearly do not care about everyone. you may pretend to but you aren’t fooling anyone.

  49. iRobert
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

    George Zimmerman is Hispanic, isn’t he?

  50. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    Lynne,

    As I have said before I think the protestors were wrong in the two previous protests when they failed to maintain social distancing. I actually called the man yelling near the officers guilty of “reckless endangerment”. I have mentioned that I think everyone should get ticketed when they break the social distancing rule.

    You seem to think just making stuff up in a dishonest way is somehow morally acceptable. You have very low moral standards Lynne.

    I care for all different kinds of people. A person’s race, sex, religion or even politics is not a deciding factor as to whether or not someone is worthy of love and care. If you want to claim that FF is not that way then show an example of something I said that indicates otherwise. Use a quote and we can discuss it. Failing to provide evidence is another peice of evidence that you, Lynne, truly are a bigoted person of low character. So, maybe give a bit of evidence? For once?

  51. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

    Nick Sandmann is a shitty kid? Really?

    A teen I have never met is my hero? Wtf?

    You are comfortable GUESSING that I support Zimmerman stalking a teen and killing a teen because such a guess (!) fits a rhetorical purpose for you? What is wrong with you Lynne?

    You are an extremely dishonest person Lynne.

  52. Lynne
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

    iRobert, you can be white and Hispanic and if so, unless you also have a Hispanic name, you will be seen as “white” as Zimmerman so obviously was.

    FF, Well, you pretty publically and enthusiastically defended Nick Sandmann’s racist actions to the point where it sounded like you thought his racist acts were acceptable. It sounded like hero worship to me too. If I am wrong about my guess about your opinions of Zimmerman, I am sorry. I am glad that you can see him as the murderer he is and don’t, like so many, assume that he was acting in any kind of self-defense.

    I don’t see myself as dishonest and my opinion is that the only reason you do, FF is that you don’t like what I am saying. Perhaps you are lying to yourself when you tell yourself that you love everyone regardless of race or gender? You cannot support President Trump and legitimately make that claim since so much of what he is about is maintaining a social order where white men are on top.

  53. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    What exactly were Sandmann’s racist actions though? The last time we discussed the event you said: “That little smug ass thug of a kid got right into Nathan Phillips face and prevented him from moving.”

    Do you have no memory? In that conversation you failed to show evidence that Sandmann moved into Phillips path. There was also contradicting evidence that Phillips ended was not blocked because he in fact ended his March exactly in the same spot where he got into Sandmann’s face. I follow facts wherever they lead me. You follow your feelings that arise from your very bigoted worldview.

    If you disagree then prove me wrong. We can look at the video Wobblie shared again. Are you going to disappear again? Are you going to retreat into your bigotry again? Turning your back on basic fact because bigotry feels normal to you? There is nothing normal about bigotry, Lynne. You need to transcend that shitty way of being now. You can’t live another day like this….

    https://youtu.be/GKZn2e9wDBs

  54. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    Does the video footage around 2:30 show Sandmann getting into Nathan’s face? Can you tell me the second Mark where Sandmann moves into Nathan’s “path”? Is there another video from which you are basing your judgment? Or is your judgment just based in your bigoted feelings?

  55. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    https://youtu.be/PKXY9QvgnBY

  56. Sad
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    Jesus fucking Christ

    Move along already

  57. Lynne
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    I wasn’t able to convince YOU that Sandmann was being racist. I get it that you saw the same video that I saw and failed to see how Sandmann’s actions were racist. Bigotry, unfortunately, is normal in the USA. It is all around us. From prosecutors failing to charge white men who hunt down and kill black men to people protesting the state lockdown measures against COVID-19 to Nick Sandmann smirking at a person of color in DC. I believe that you see the racial contract mentioned in the article below as so normal that you view actual equality as bigotry somehow. That is why I don’t take your accusations of my bigotry seriously. Which of course isn’t to say that I don’t have any bigotry or racism or even sexism to deal with. I just think that what you are seeing in me as bigotry seems to be at times when I am addressing white male privilege and I suspect that you see anyone challenging white male superiority as bigotry.

    I read a good article about this in The Atlantic recently about our national racial contract. I am not sharing it for you as I consider you hopeless but maybe someone else will read it and think about the points the author is making

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/americas-racial-contract-showing/611389/

    You can presume that when I choose to ignore you it is because I am “retreating into bigotry” but it really is just that I sometimes lose my tolerance for racist assholes. Since I don’t care about your opinions, I am probably not going to alter my behavior. You can form any opinions of me that you like. You just don’t matter that much. It only matters that so many Americans are similarly deplorable.

  58. Jean Henry
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    Excellent piece Lynne. Thank you.

    We really need to stop giving these dudes any play.
    Not worth the emotional energy.

  59. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

    No Lynne. You either have evidence of Sandmann moving into Nathan’s path, getting into Nathan’s face, and allowing Nathan to move—or you don’t have evidence of it. If you can’t provide evidence then maybe you are basing your judgment on something else? I don’t know. I am following your lead. You made a truth claim. What is it based upon? I have never seen a video that supports your truth claim. I have only seen videos that contradict your truth claim. So what is your initial truth claim from which you are passing a bogus judgment about me now grounded in exactly?

  60. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

    *NOT allowing Nathan to move

  61. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

    Do you need to be reminded that you also claimed to hear things in the Sandmann/ Phillips videos that you later admitted were not actually audible?

  62. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

    Yes Jean. It requires too much emotional energy to provide evidence for judgments. Making baseless accusation against others is so much less emotionally draining. At least that’s what a sociopath once told me.

  63. EOS
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

    https://www.fox19.com/2020/01/07/cnn-settles-lawsuit-with-nick-sandmann/

    He’s just a kid who did nothing.

  64. Sad
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

    It’s really a non issue.

    But carry on.

  65. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 7:48 pm | Permalink

    FF is a racist because Cassandra has bigoted feelings toward a teenager? LOL.

    Prove that you are not a mega-loser. Show the evidence upon which your judgments are based. Simple.

  66. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    *mega-bigot-loser

  67. Jean Henry
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 8:42 pm | Permalink

    FF post: ‘ Yes Jean. It requires too much emotional energy to provide evidence for judgments.’

    Very next FF post: “Prove that you are not a mega-loser. Show the evidence upon which your judgments are based.”

  68. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

    Sarcasm in first post. Sorry you missed it.

  69. bet HW that McCabe wouldn’t be fired and all I got was this stupid name
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    Aloha evidence indicates that the first 3-4 days of infection are undetectable by our current test. Why despite daily testing at White House it has become a Trump virus hot spot.
    This virus is very very sneaky.
    The Leader is betting the future of the country on us having a vaccine by the end of the year.
    What have you got to loose. MAGA
    I kick myself every day for not starting emigrating two years earlier.

  70. Sad
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 9:28 pm | Permalink

    Why isn’t the virus ripping through Georgia?

  71. iRobert
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

    The weather has suppressed the virus down there considerably. They’ve also had some areas still doing the stay-at-home orders.

  72. bet HW that McCabe wouldn’t be fired and all I got was this stupid name
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

    Aloha easy to sink into the Trump virus obsession. Things happen every day though that are at times incomprehensible given tribal loyalties, such as Democratic majorities giving the Leader more and more money for his war making
    Or
    Like today or yesterday the Republican Senate giving the FBI the authority to search your browser history without a search warrant—so much for being secure in your papers and effects.
    https://consequenceofsound.net/2020/05/senate-votes-fbi-access-browsing-history-surveillence/?fbclid=IwAR1uPPIa2BKc28vv-UkGaZzKR1JF0qRALj-iKNBT3lRtyFA5hCLWZAw34TE

  73. iRobert
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

    Florida has also had comparatively fewer hospitalizations and deaths than northern states, even though that have a very large senior citizen population.

    There’s no telling, though, exactly what all suppresses this virus. It’s characteristics are very unusual and very little is understood about it still.

  74. bet HW that McCabe wouldn’t be fired and all I got was this stupid name
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 9:59 pm | Permalink

    Aloha It is amazing hoe relativity works. IRobert thinks that this is “comparatively” better
    “ FDOH is reporting 43,210 cases of COVID-19, which is up by 808 cases since Wednesday’s report. A total of 7,749 patients have been hospitalized and 1,875 have died.”

    Better than what?

  75. bet HW that McCabe wouldn’t be fired and all I got was this stupid name
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 10:22 pm | Permalink

    Aloha Australia has a few million more people than Florida but only has 6800 cases and 98 deaths.
    In total numbers Florida seems better than Texas and California but both of those state have 10 million more people.
    Georgia is not doing much better than Florida. These places only look good compared to Michigan or New York or New Jersey which are the worst places on the planet.

  76. Jean Henry
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 10:39 pm | Permalink

    You all realize how ridiculous it is to make these comparisons with very low rates of tasting early on and ongoing and wide variability still from state to state on the level of testing, right?

    Speculating about any of these by lay people shows a level of conceit that can only mark equally great stupidity.

    Follow the guidelines. Every time you all make shit up asNd even guess, you add to the noise that muddies the water and leads people to make dumb choices.

  77. Jean Henry
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 10:43 pm | Permalink

    FF— no I got it.
    You don’t understand how emotional and unreasoned you’re statements are.

    Let’s put the second post out there one more time:
    “Prove that you are not a mega-loser. Show the evidence upon which your judgments are based.”

  78. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 14, 2020 at 11:57 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think you get much Jean. Sorry. It was a note to Cassandra. She claimed I am a white-male-supremacist. Her supposed piece of evidence is that I did not see Nick Sandmann as a “shitty kid” performing “racists actions”. Cassandra claimed his racist actions were easy to see when, in her words: “that little smug ass thug of a kid got right into Nathan Phillips face and prevented him from moving.” I am simply point9ing out that Lynne was and is unable to provide evidence that Nick moves into Nathan’s “path”, got into his face, or prevented Nathan from moving. I am theorizing that Lynne assumes, hears and sees things that are not there because she is an extremely bigoted person. How else would you explain it? I am open to alternate suggestions but a big clue that I am right is she avoids facing the reality when challenged.

    Simple.

  79. iRobert
    Posted May 15, 2020 at 4:20 am | Permalink

    My only point was that southern states seem to be generally experiencing less dramatic spread of the virus so far (with the exception of Louisiana).

    I wasn’t comparing US states to any other countries, Wobblie.

    The virus does seem to be suppressed somewhat by the summer weather. That’s essentially all I was saying, in guessing as to why Georgia and Florida have not seen the sort of hospitalization and death rates many northern states have experienced.

  80. iRobert
    Posted May 15, 2020 at 4:53 am | Permalink

    Ohio (1,534) is close to exceeding Georgia (1,545) in total reported COVID-19 deaths.

    Maryland (1,866) is close to exceeding Florida (1,875) in total reported COVID-19 deaths.

    NOTE: I am not posting this as a scientific study to be used as a foundation for making life and death decisions – Unlike all of Jean’s statements about race, gender and privilege, which are all absolutely scientific and factual.

  81. iRobert
    Posted May 15, 2020 at 5:04 am | Permalink

    By the way, Wobblie, Texas’ population is about 7.5 million more than Florida. And California’s population exceeds Florida’s by about 18 million. Those are details you don’t have to speculate about.

  82. bet HW that McCabe wouldn’t be fired and all I got was this stupid name
    Posted May 15, 2020 at 7:01 am | Permalink

    Aloha iRobert, thanks for the details. Two new stories caught my eye this morning.
    Trump decides to continue the screwing of working folks (while putting the rest in danger, )by allowing truck drivers to drive more with less rest and recuperation periods. We will soon have a return to the speedball popping drivers trying to maximize their income.

    Despite the Trump virus, some good things are happening in the 1st world ( if we only lived in a civilized country). Sorry JH another one of your pet technologies has been rejected by a sensible country.
    https://www.newsweek.com/europe-germany-philippsburg-nuclear-power-cooling-towers-demolition-explosion-video-1504280?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3alMalV0CVvQGifyAGz9pthrhWn9wOn-KyG2t4RMIc1lVQr9tk9Q_KgDo#Echobox=1589534618

  83. John Brown
    Posted May 15, 2020 at 7:13 am | Permalink

    I’m sure this point is covered in your extensive comments, but my big takeaway from yesterday’s protest was that the far right leadership got the message that they were getting killed in the court of public opinion. Hiding most the KKK regalia militia shit, and even had to beat up one of the regulars in a desperate attempt to appear morally decent. But we all know trumpers and decency is fake news!

  84. bet HW that McCabe wouldn’t be fired and all I got was this stupid name
    Posted May 15, 2020 at 7:39 am | Permalink

    Aloha given the incessant propaganda by the anti-vaccine crowd, even if the Leaders vaccine by end of year comes true (not a scientist on planet seriously believes this is possible) half of Americans would refuse to take it.
    WHO best case scenario is we are living with the the Trump virus for at least another
    4-5 years—-longer in US because of the vaccine resisters.
    https://www.sciencealert.com/who-says-a-coronavirus-vaccine-is-a-massive-moonshot-we-shouldn-t-rely-on?fbclid=IwAR2bJbgwqKuYDWuzKrLVdr_CT2hDwx8aInl0a5PFDVCTZKZAj442lBvaLa8

  85. Lynne
    Posted May 15, 2020 at 7:59 am | Permalink

    Yes, FF is like a lot of men who think they are entitled to the emotional labor of women. I have no obligation to prove anything and actually see his demands as the trap that they are. I imagine that it would be impossible to prove that I formed my opinion of him based on reasonable logic because he is not open to that idea based on his opinion of me. He certainly has rejected any explanations I have offered on this so far. His opinion of me is one that I think comes from a place of feelings of white male superiority and thus is completely without merit to me.

    I did read an interesting article on Medium written by a woman who, like me, saw the same videos of the encounter of Nick Sandmann and an older native man and came to a different conclusion about it than many white folks. Like me, She was asked over and over, “Did you watch the video?” in that patronizing way some people (but especially white men) have of being incredulous that someone could form a different opinion than they have, based on the same information they have, and not automatically defer to their opinion. Then she chose to explain her reasoning and it resonated with me because it was so similar to my own. Nick Sandmann did a shitty thing that day. He may or may not otherwise be a shitty person but based on subsequent interviews that he gave, I think he qualifies.

  86. Lynne
    Posted May 15, 2020 at 8:02 am | Permalink

    I wonder if FF realizes that he often comes across here as the sort of guy who engages in domestic abuse?

  87. EOS
    Posted May 15, 2020 at 8:08 am | Permalink

    Lynne,

    OK, that does it. I’m putting you in the cricket cage with JH. Bye.

  88. Lynne
    Posted May 15, 2020 at 8:21 am | Permalink

    I don’t think I have heard “cricket cage” as a term before. I don’t mind being lumped in with JH by you guys. I am actually surprised you haven’t already.

  89. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 15, 2020 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    What have I said that led you to the judgment that I am the sort of guy who engages in domestic abuse? Please use a quote so we can discuss it.

    It’s not a big ask. Where is the video where you witness Sandmann 1) moving into Nathan’s path; 2) Getting into Nathan’s face; 3) Stopping Nathan from moving? If those things are not the basis of your judgment that Sandmann is a “shitty kid”, “racist”, “thug”, then what is the basis of that judgment? You just now mentioned interviews Sandmann gave. Are you basing your judgment on those interviews? Ok. What things did Sandmann say in those interviews that helped you form your harsh judgment of the teen? The reason I ask is because you said my failure to see a teenager as a “shitty kid” is indicative of my supposed racism and sexism. My judgment is that you display a consistent pattern of wildly dishonest bigotry and the little exchange we are engaged in right now is an example of that pattern.

  90. Lynne
    Posted May 15, 2020 at 8:30 am | Permalink

    *yawn*

  91. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 15, 2020 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    Princess Lynne sometimes gets sleepy when she asked to confront her bigotry.

  92. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 15, 2020 at 8:41 am | Permalink

    Other times Princess Lynne feels like she is the victim of abuse when her bigotry is pointed out.

  93. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 15, 2020 at 8:43 am | Permalink

    Providing evidence for her judgments makes her want to take a nap.

  94. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 15, 2020 at 8:46 am | Permalink

    Making up lies and spreading smears based on mere innuendo, grounded in nothing, is very invigorating for the Princess though.

  95. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 15, 2020 at 8:47 am | Permalink

    When truth telling makes you feel weak and lying makes you feel strong you might have a psychological disorder.

  96. Posted May 15, 2020 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    State Rep. Anthony on armed protests at the Capitol, and making the most of a crisis

    https://www.michiganradio.org/post/state-rep-anthony-armed-protests-capitol-and-making-most-crisis

    (From Michigan Radio)

  97. Bob
    Posted May 15, 2020 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    I feel like the protesters would have a much stronger case if they could spell Whitmer correctly and didn’t usually draw their swastikas backwards

  98. Jean Henry
    Posted May 17, 2020 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

    Here is an article about the pandemic that doesn’t pretend to know things that are not yet knowable.
    FF, EOS and HW should take note. But they won’t.

    https://www.harvardmagazine.com/2020/05/r-nought

  99. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 17, 2020 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

    What exactly do you think I am pretending to know?

    Your style of discourse is extremely phony and superficial, Jean. But who cares what I think? My parents did not meet at Harvard.

  100. iRobert
    Posted May 17, 2020 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    I fully support Trump’s right to hold big rallies in swing states such as Florida, Wisconsin and Ohio. I’d like to see as many gatherings of Trump supporters in those states as possible.

    Pneumonia should be ruled the cause of death in all these cases the Democrat hoaxsters have been chalking up to COVID-19. It’s not right to be scaring folks like EOS into isolating themselves.

  101. Jean Henry
    Posted May 17, 2020 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

    I have figured out FF’s identity!
    He’s Holden Caufield!

    What would we do without such wise counsel among us?

  102. Jean Henry
    Posted May 17, 2020 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

    FF — you are super focused on the Harvard thing. You need to let it go. I have zero ego attached to where my parents went to school. I chose a different life. They did too after school moving to rural PA.

    Let’s be super clear here. It wasn’t that hard to get into Harvard in 1956– if you were from the right Social class, race, religious orientation, etc . It’s much harder to get into UM now.

  103. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 17, 2020 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

    Jean is a bullshitter therefore FF is a Holden Caufield type?

    What exactly do you think I am pretending to know?

  104. iRobert
    Posted May 17, 2020 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

    Trump is coming to Ypsilanti Thursday.

  105. Sad
    Posted May 17, 2020 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

    You’re kidding?

  106. iRobert
    Posted May 18, 2020 at 5:33 am | Permalink

    Hopefully, while he’s in town, Trump will know to attack local propagandist Mark Maynard. It would be cool if he acknowledged the hard work of HW, FF and EOS to expose #Maynardgate.

  107. wobblie
    Posted May 18, 2020 at 7:11 am | Permalink

    Aloha, 12 new cases of the Trump virus in Oshkosk. That would be a 12% increases in cases since the Wis Supreme decision. Maybe more testing? If case fatality rates continue as they have been, we are looking at least one more death now.

  108. iRobert
    Posted May 18, 2020 at 7:33 am | Permalink

    First we see the increase in positive tests. That happens about eight days after the surge begins, on average. Shortly after that, we see the ICUs get a rush of patients. Then, two or three weeks later we start to see the increase in deaths. Several states and hot spots are now seeing the uptick in positive tests.

  109. Posted May 18, 2020 at 7:37 am | Permalink

    Global coronavirus death toll could be 60% higher than reported

    https://www.ft.com/content/6bd88b7d-3386-4543-b2e9-0d5c6fac846c

    (From the Financial Times)

  110. Jean Henry
    Posted May 18, 2020 at 7:59 am | Permalink

    “Jean is a bullshitter therefore FF is a Holden Caufield type?“
    Couldn’t have said it better myself, FF

  111. Lynne
    Posted May 18, 2020 at 10:25 am | Permalink

    JH, I don’t think FF reads too much.

  112. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 18, 2020 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    Jean is a bullshitter therefore FF has not read a particular book?

    Cassandra might be a dumb bullshitter.

  113. Lynne
    Posted May 18, 2020 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

    FF, I don’t give much weight to your opinions about things like who is a bullshitter. You seem to call bullshit on perfectly reasonable things enough that I don’t think you know bullshit when you see it. I also generally find that you don’t seem very well-read. They aren’t really connected thoughts other than I guess I can see why JH would call you a Holden Caulfield type easier than I can see why you would call her a bullshitter.

  114. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 18, 2020 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    Calling her little argument “phony” was either an accurate description or it wasn’t. I asked her what exactly she thought I was pretending to know. She gave no response.

    You really need to educate yourself on the types of fallacious reasoning.

  115. Lynne
    Posted May 18, 2020 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

    FF, I suspect that if you were more familiar with the character you may have gotten a better sense of where she was coming from.

    I am fairly well educated on fallacious reasoning. Not an expert by any means but I took classes in college that covered such things. English classes about crafting argumentative essays and general philosophy classes. I would ask you why you think I don’t have a good education about such things but I haven’t seen you demonstrate an understanding of fallacious reasoning yourself! I can’t imagine your analysis of anyone’s argument to have any value.

  116. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 18, 2020 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    Did Jean suggest FF, HW and EOS are pretending to know things we don’t know? Yes or no?

    Did I ask Jean what exactly I was pretending to know? Yes or no?

    Did Jean respond to the question? Yes or no?

    My theory is that this is an example of Jean’s bullshitty style of discourse. She is employing a straw man which she stuffed with the baseless innuendo that FF, HW, and EOS are pretending to know things we don’t know. Any reasonable person would just point to what they had in mind. I don’t think she has anything in mind. It is just more Of Jean’s empty rhetoric based on easily identifiable fallacious reasoning.

    Simple.

  117. Jean Henry
    Posted May 18, 2020 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

    Trump said Pompeo was being investigated for using staff to walk his dog…
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/saudi-arms-sale-was-second-area-investigation-fired-state-department-n1209521

    FF— I’m under no obligation to respond to your demands and I won’t. Feel free to believe I’m a phony. I do not care. You simply sound ridiculous to me. I know the feeling is mutual. There’s nothing to discuss.

  118. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 18, 2020 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

    Why not just say what you had in mind when you suggested that we are “pretending to know things”? Why do you think it is such a big ask? Normally people like to give reasons that support their truth claims—if they actually have supporting reasons.

    My theory is you rarely have reasons for saying the things you say. Hence I label you a “bullshitter“.

  119. Jean Henry
    Posted May 18, 2020 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

    Pretending to know things like hoe to best manage a pandemic maybe?

    Jesus you are dense.

  120. Jean Henry
    Posted May 18, 2020 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    Pretending to know what FISA abuse investigations will find.

    Pretending to know what all investigations are about.

    Pretending to know what happened at any number of high profile and much disputed events Because of your perception of a video tape.

    All you do is pretend to know things. I can’t remember the last time you suggested you were unsure if anything.

  121. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 18, 2020 at 9:43 pm | Permalink

    “Pretending to know things like hoe to best manage a pandemic maybe?”

    That is what I figured you were trying to say here. When did I do that?

  122. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 18, 2020 at 9:48 pm | Permalink

    I have said at least a half dozen times that “I am an idiot about this health stuff”.

  123. Jean Henry
    Posted May 18, 2020 at 10:04 pm | Permalink

    I only read a few of your posts a day, so I must have missed that. You are a blowhard, FF. A few lines of self-deprecation does not stop you from going on and on about things about which you ‘are an idiot.’…

  124. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 18, 2020 at 10:17 pm | Permalink

    A lot of people seem idiotic in their certainty around their opinions about the correct pandemic response. It’s complicated. Lots of moving parts. I have willingly followed the Michigan guidelines and am curious to see how things will work out in different states and in different countries with different approaches.

  125. iRobert
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 6:17 am | Permalink

    Only an absolute moron does not understand how a federal directed mobilization and coordination would be a necessity for effectively dealing with a pandemic.

    This blog is infested with zero-experience mental patients. It does not reflect at all the real world.

  126. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 7:31 am | Permalink

    I do regret not putting iRobert in charge of ventilator dispatch.

  127. iRobert
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    Have you ever been in a position to observe competent leadership of any sort, FF? Or competent coordination? How is it that you don’t know what it looks like? Have you lived your professional life isolated in a cave?

  128. iRobert
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 7:52 am | Permalink

    Your moron President only avoided a shit-show with ventilators because state mitigation orders worked to flatten their curves.

    It would have been at least the disaster his failure to coordinate PPE and tests have been.

  129. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    You think if we were projected to have more than enough ventilators, then we wouldn’t have employed mitigation efforts?

    80% that go on ventilators end up dead.

  130. iRobert
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 8:20 am | Permalink

    FF: “You think if we were projected to have more than enough ventilators, then we wouldn’t have employed mitigation efforts?”

    That’s obviously not what I think. How did you draw that conclusion from my comments?

    I do agree that ventilators haven’t been the best means for getting the most serious cases through to recovery. That’s an issue which medical professionals can detail in such a way so as to help shift strategy. Making sure all options are available to medical professionals is the duty of government in a national emergency.

  131. iRobert
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 8:23 am | Permalink

    Mass mitigation efforts were offered at the state level as a consequence of the failure to contain, track and isolate nationally at the outset.

  132. EOS
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 8:24 am | Permalink

    Robert has witnessed great leaders and even worked for one. The secret to great leadership is to get elected to Congress in a strongly unionized district and then spend the rest of your career voting how the party tells you. Don’t rock the boat – don’t do anything of significance. It’s no wonder he thinks everything is accomplished by phone calls because he didn’t witness any real work.

  133. iRobert
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    Mass mitigation efforts were ordered at the state level as a consequence of the failures in the federal response at the outset.

  134. iRobert
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 8:29 am | Permalink

    EOS,

    Most people have worked in businesses that have competent management. Why haven’t you Trumpanzees?

  135. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    I sincerely don’t understand what point you were trying to make then.

    Mitigation efforts were going to be a factor regardless of the ventilator supply—and rightfully so.

  136. iRobert
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    EOS: “Robert has witnessed great leaders and even worked for one.”

    I’ve worked for some very competent business people. I would assume many people have. Why haven’t you?

    EOS: “The secret to great leadership is to get elected to Congress in a strongly unionized district and then spend the rest of your career voting how the party tells you.”

    This sentence demonstrates clearly you have no experience in such things.

    EOS: “Don’t rock the boat – don’t do anything of significance.”

    You are pathetically uninformed and inexperienced.

    EOS: “It’s no wonder he thinks everything is accomplished by phone calls because he didn’t witness any real work.”

    Deploying a hospital ship requires one phone call from the President, moron. Since I stated that, you’ve been trying to pretend I meant something else by the comment.

    Your a real asshole, EOS. It’s good to see you’ve stopped pretending to be a Christian though. Nobody was buying it.

  137. iRobert
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    EOS has apparently never been anywhere close enough to observe even a little bit of competent leadership. Not in business, or government, or in any other hunan endeavor. I’m right about that, aren’t I, EOS?

  138. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 8:43 am | Permalink

    iRobert,

    You are saying we could have avoided mitigation efforts if Trump would have contained, tracked and isolated? Is there a country that has been able to avoid mitigation efforts because they did those things?

    You pointed to Germany before as the way to do it. My understanding is their lockdown was similar to the lockdown in most states here.

  139. iRobert
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    You know, EOS, religious organizations quite often engage in charity work on a large scale. In those instances you have the opportunity to observe some very competent organizers and leadership. You could kill two birds with one stone by joining a church-based charity organization and learn a great deal in a short time about what competent leadership and genuine Christianity look like.

  140. iRobert
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    FF: “You are saying we could have avoided mitigation efforts if Trump would have contained, tracked and isolated?”

    If the federal government had isolated, tested, tracked at the outset, mitigation efforts could have been very localized to much smaller areas. It’s essentially what the plan is now.

  141. EOS
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 8:52 am | Permalink

    It appears Robert is having a meltdown this morning.

  142. iRobert
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    Why do you say that, EOS? Is it because you can’t refute my comments about you?

    Have you ever been in any position in business, church, or government to observe leadership?

  143. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/coronavirus-why-testing-and-contact-tracing-isnt-a-simple-solution-137214

    In your opinion is this a good article, iRobert?

  144. iRobert
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    European counties have a whole different problem. The European Union does not function as a federal government. It doesn’t have the resources or personnel an actual government has. At the same time, borders were all open because of the existence of the Union. That was a big disadvantage. The European Union member nations don’t have the many advantages that we do in the US in having an actual federal government.

  145. iRobert
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    …and, yes, FF, that is a good article in my opinion.

  146. Jean Henry
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 9:39 am | Permalink

    So much for this being about what the working class wants…

    “The polling is unambiguous. In April, Gallup reported that low-income adults were still more likely to fear illness from COVID-19 than financial hardship, which by then had already become acute. Later the same month, an IPSOS poll found that high-income households in 14 countries surveyed, including the U.S., were mostly likely on average to support economic re-opening. The poorer a household, the less likely a respondent was to agree that states should re-open.”

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/05/lockdown-protesters-arent-the-working-class.html

  147. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 9:57 am | Permalink

    Is there a specific comment you are refuting Jean? Or is it just a broad notion you are refuting based upon a wide category?

  148. Jean Henry
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 10:07 am | Permalink

    https://www.salon.com/2020/05/18/soldiers-of-the-boogaloo-david-neiwert-on-the-far-rights-plans-for-a-new-civil-war/

  149. Demetrius
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 11:11 am | Permalink

    Thanks, Jean.

    This Salon piece is important, and one that everyone should read and consider seriously.

    We really need a credible, organized, and well-prepared opposition – but I fear that mainstream Dems (led by Schumer, Pelosi, and Uncle Joe) don’t have a clue, and are sleep-walking directly into the coming crisis.

  150. wobblie
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    Aloha FF, you asked, “iRobert,
    You are saying we could have avoided mitigation efforts if Trump would have contained, tracked and isolated? Is there a country that has been able to avoid mitigation efforts because they did those things?

    No, but they have had literally only a handful of deaths compared to the carnage in the exceptional US. New Zealand, Australia, Tawain, Hong Kong, S. Korea, India, with as close or closer economic ties to China are doing so much better than US. Countries like Poland, Bahamas, Canada doing very much better than US and well within the US economic order are looking at the chaos here in dismay.

  151. Jean Henry
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

    Demetrius— you seem to confuse people dealing with the current political realities with people who are asleep at the wheel.

    How much time do you actually spend paying attention to Pelosi?
    Do you imagine that The Speaker of the house should be a revolutionary.

    Pelosi gets things done in the current system. Bernie did nothing but take positions. That’s not the job.

    Pelosi is probably the least naive politician in DC.

    She told Obama he was going to be taken advantage of at the start of his first term when he talked about bi-partisan cooperation .

    Don’t assume Dem leadership is unaware or isn’t doing anything to mediate the risk. We have competent inside people. Activists need to start to recognize that and start creating the pressure from the outside needed and stop attacking those inside the system with the same damn objectives.

  152. John Brown
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

    Demetrius is right. But so is JH when she says the current leadership is aware of the threat. I mean that would be pretty hard to miss now that it’s being lorded over our heads every damn covid protest day. But the old timey Dem leadership lacks the conviction to win at any cost. They’re outta their league with these psychopath agent orangers. And if they do win they aren’t different enough from the neo fascists to make much difference to most folks quality of life.

  153. Demetrius
    Posted May 19, 2020 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

    When Trump and his “boogaloo” army decide to rise up and delay the next election, or refuse to hand over power should they lose it– what exactly are Democratic leaders gonna’ do? Pass a congressional resolution? Draft yet another sternly-worded memo …?

    I really get the feeling that most mainstream Dems think that Trump is merely an aberration, and that once he’s gone (hopefully in January) everything will somehow go back to “normal.”

    The problem is that they don’t seem to realize that Trump is just a symptom – not the disease. In reality, the anger and division that’s festering out there is much, much bigger than just him, and as the Salon article points out, it is now beginning to undermine what’s left of our democracy.

    If Dems were really serious about the threat, they would act like it. They could start by championing a bold, alternative vision – something that would resonate with voters and generate genuine excitement and enthusiasm … not merely positioning themselves as the party of “Not Trump,” and certainly not by running the same old tired leaders year after year.

  154. Jean Henry
    Posted May 22, 2020 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

    Denetriius— you seem to not be aware that what resonates with you puts off more than half the nation and likely a majority of Dems.

    This is a middle of the road country.

    The left needs to make a better case for itself and stop blaming the Dem establishment which is representative of most Dem Voting block core beliefs and priorities.

    I’m much further to the left but I know where I stand within the political spectrum of the country.

  155. EOS
    Posted May 22, 2020 at 9:50 pm | Permalink

    So what does everyone think about Biden’s announcement on who is really black? Will this be likely to draw voters to the polls?

  156. Jean Henry
    Posted May 22, 2020 at 10:30 pm | Permalink

    EOS—
    It was horrible. We can admit that. We talk about it.
    Trump says much worse all the time and you know it. You dismiss it but then bring up every little thing on Biden.

    Grow up.

    God chooses imperfect vessels for his work, right? Thank God for abortions.

  157. bet HW that McCabe wouldn’t be fired and all I got was this stupid name
    Posted May 23, 2020 at 7:09 am | Permalink

    Aloha JH, “Pelosi gets things done in the current system. ” Exactly and as a result is culpable in every decision that Trump has made. The House of which St. Nancy governs has passed every appropriations bill The Leader has requested–that is a resistance movement==not==. what is her position on the growing hostility towards China?

    Just like the “liberals” who couldn’t stand the “angry major” and gave us the pycho-path Rick the killer Snyder for governor, those same “liberals” are doing everything they can to give the Leader another 4 years. The pandemic is the only thing that is making Biden at all viable while Biden himself does everything he can to alienate his prime supporters.

  158. EOS
    Posted May 23, 2020 at 7:50 am | Permalink

    There are a large number of persons who like Trump and a large number who hate him. I haven’t met a single person who likes Biden, but plenty who find him pathetically inept. He’s a placeholder for the person selected to the VP position by the party bosses. They are placing bets on whether Joe resigns before or after the election.

  159. Jean Henry
    Posted May 23, 2020 at 8:13 am | Permalink

    He’s competent to serve EOS, which puts him way ahead of Trump.
    And there are obviously many people who do like him, particularly Black Americans, whose enthusiasm nominated him, and who expect White people to say stupid shit to and about Black people because that’s what White people do. It’s not shocking to them.
    Same way I can vote for someone who has likely committed sexual offense.

    There is no area of Biden criticism where Trump isn’t demonstrably much worse. By leagues.

    It just makes you look ridiculous to compare them on moral or ethical grounds.

    Broaden your friend circle.

  160. Jean Henry
    Posted May 23, 2020 at 8:15 am | Permalink

    Wobblie— Even AOC has now acknowledged that being the ‘resistance’ in Congress means getting nothing done.

    Resistance is pressure from the outside. Inside the system work is different. As always, your self-righteous and authoritarian impulses remain strong.

  161. EOS
    Posted May 23, 2020 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    The more white Democrats speak for Blacks as a group that has no individual competencies, the less likely the individuals will be constrained.

  162. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 23, 2020 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    It’s weird but a lot of Jean’s post are simply complex variations of her telling other people to “shut up”.

  163. Lynne
    Posted May 23, 2020 at 9:45 am | Permalink

    EOS, what do you mean? You aren’t seriously suggesting that black people need to be constrained as individuals or don’t have the same self-restraint as others. It seems to me that the people who need to be constrained as individuals are those assholes who march around with their guns and no masks, endangering everyone, at our state capital.

  164. Jean Henry
    Posted May 23, 2020 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    FF– I think most people who rad the comments section here will understand that impulse.

    All I do is counter people and critique their POV. That’s not telling people to STFU. Telling people to STFU would be a lot easier. Maybe I’ll go with that.

  165. Jean Henry
    Posted May 23, 2020 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    Lynne– I think your misread EOS. EOS appears to be saying that when Dems speak of Black people as a monolith, we are somehow suppressing (constraining) their free expression.

    I was speaking of Black people as a voting block, and 95% of them vote Dem. over 60% voted for Biden against Sanders. And the voting booth is a private act; they can do what they want in there. The only suppression is from the GOP doing everything they can to prevent Black people from voting instead of working to earn their votes.

  166. Lynne
    Posted May 23, 2020 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    Re Biden and black people. I can say that the only people I saw on social media who were upset about his comment were the super educated well-off white people who tend to be on the far left. In other words, people like me. I also chafed at his comment. However, black people seem to have taken it differently. In my bubble, the responses of black people have varied from “duh, all white people are racist but he listens to us on policy” to “It means something that he apologized for it” I don’t think this is going to cost him any votes.

    I also know lots of people who like him as a politician. I like him! I think he has some pretty big flaws and I find myself rolling my eyes a lot when he speaks but I think that deep down he is a good person. He was a good vice president. He is likely to get things done if elected, especially if the Senate flips too. He has 24 fewer sexual allegations than Trump too!

    I am not sure of the statute of limitations for civil suits but if that hasn’t elapsed as the criminal charges have, I hope she files suit. I want to see those people who claim that she told them about this back in the day to say that under oath and under the threat of perjury. A lot of what the investigative journalists have uncovered has suggested that those witnesses may not be truthful. I don’t know about that but I know I would be more inclined to believe them if they were under oath when they make their statements. On that note, I also think this is a good opportunity to talk about things like statues of limitations for sexual assaults. They are way too short especially in cases where the victim is a minor. It often takes years, even decades, for people to be ready to bring such suits into the courts and often they are just too late so their rapist has no consequences.

  167. Lynne
    Posted May 23, 2020 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    JH, Oh good. In this case, I am glad to have misread EOS’s meaning

  168. Frosted Flakes
    Posted May 23, 2020 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    You are probably right Jean. That was not my best comment.

  169. EOS
    Posted May 23, 2020 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

    Too funny. Not only did Lynne miss the point entirely, she immediately tells everyone here what black people think. I thought Robert already exposed her as not being black.

  170. Jean Henry
    Posted May 23, 2020 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    “ she immediately tells everyone here what black people think”

    EOS— where exactly did Lynne do that? Please explain.

    Seems to me that she stated what she thinks. No one else.

  171. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 23, 2020 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

    That ought to be a lesson that seeming doesn’t mean shit.

    “In my bubble, the responses of black people have varied from “duh, all white people are racist but he listens to us on policy” to “It means something that he apologized for it” I don’t think this is going to cost him any votes.”

    Both of you misunderstand things that should be quite obvious in written communication on a regular basis. Are you absolutely certain it is not you that is crazy? A lot of people have said that about me and much worse as you know but I don’t malfunction mentally like you people do every day.

  172. Lynne
    Posted May 23, 2020 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

    Even if I were black, I still couldn’t be a spokesperson for all black people any more than I can be a spokesperson for white women. I can, however, share what I have seen in my own social network.

  173. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 23, 2020 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    You ain’t black.

  174. Jean Henry
    Posted May 24, 2020 at 8:13 am | Permalink

    ” Are you absolutely certain it is not you that is crazy? A lot of people have said that about me and much worse as you know but I don’t malfunction mentally like you people do every day.”

    Dunning-Kruger

  175. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 24, 2020 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    You are on the left side of it every day which I have proven countless times now. Case in point: your perception she never spoke about what anyone else thinks but her. Not that I care about that but it’s a good example of you not knowing what you are talking about but acting like you do which is what the Duning Kruger study was about.

    What is even the basis of you saying the opposite? No generalities. That means nothing.

  176. Lynne
    Posted May 24, 2020 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    HW, I know that I am not black. I also know that my sharing specific things that black people have said is not the same thing as telling others how black people think. I really have not spoken about anyone else’s thoughts but my own. If you think you have proven otherwise, you are mistaken.

    I think JH has demonstrated a fairly good idea of what the Dunning-Kruger effect is and is using the term appropriately when she applies it to you.

  177. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 24, 2020 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    It doesn’t matter what you think of me. Based on everything you write I think it is self-evident you are a muppet. No reason, only emotion. Normally I would ignore someone like you in life but since you decided it was a good idea to attack me I now enjoy proving you to be the idiot you are whenever I want; same as Jean Henry, Bob, Barky and the rest.

  178. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 24, 2020 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

    EOS didn’t say *ALL* black people anyway, dork. You have so many little fallacies you use it’s hard to keep up with them.

  179. stupid hick
    Posted May 25, 2020 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    Is it a fallacy that Hyperian Warlock said this on April 9, 2020? “There are also realities like all the negroes thought it was a good idea to drive out white people from Detroit in the 60’s”

  180. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 25, 2020 at 10:25 am | Permalink

    You shouldn’t alter people’s quotes to try to make people hate them.

  181. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted May 25, 2020 at 10:32 am | Permalink

    It only makes you look bad. Needing to lie about someone to try to damage them doesn’t reflect well on the health of your argument. It doesn’t even work so I don’t know why you do it.

  182. Posted May 25, 2020 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    Trump Threatens to Pull Republican Convention From North Carolina

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-threatens-to-pull-republican-convention-from-north-carolina-11590421486

    (From The Wall Street Journal)

  183. Posted May 25, 2020 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    Watch now: Fans are plentiful, masks in shorter supply for Ace Speedway opener amid COVID-19 pandemic

    https://www.journalnow.com/sports/watch-now-fans-are-plentiful-masks-in-shorter-supply-for-ace-speedway-opener-amid-covid/article_c30a395d-376d-585d-b063-d156153a40e9.html

    (From The Winston-Salem Journal)

  184. Posted May 25, 2020 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    Pool party draws packed crowd at Lake of the Ozarks in Missouri

    https://fox59.com/news/coronavirus/pool-party-draws-packed-crowd-at-lake-of-the-ozarks-in-missouri/

    (From Fox 59)

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