Super Tuesday open thread

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  1. Nate Silver by proxy
    Posted March 3, 2020 at 8:49 pm | Permalink

    You sometimes get the sense that the Sanders campaign never really asked itself: What’s our message to the 55% of Democrats who voted for Hillary Clinton in 2016?

  2. Dan Pfeiffer by proxy
    Posted March 3, 2020 at 8:55 pm | Permalink

    There are lots of votes to be counted tonight and more contests to come, but the challenge for Sanders is very clear – he has been unable to garner enough support from African-American voters, which is much more important than the endorsements Biden received in the last 48 hrs

  3. anonymous
    Posted March 3, 2020 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

    Pod Save America is live.

  4. anonymous
    Posted March 3, 2020 at 9:28 pm | Permalink


  5. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted March 3, 2020 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

    Wizbef trying to put out Bernie’s fire.

  6. KKT
    Posted March 3, 2020 at 10:13 pm | Permalink

    Biden had nothing going into Super Tuesday. He had not ad buys. He had no ground game. What we’re seeing shouldn’t have happened. Some are saying that he owes it all to the “democratic establishment”, but it was 100% the African American base of the party, and suburban voters who did it. Sanders didn’t turn out new voters like everyone thought, and the momentum of his big win in South Carolina propelled Biden through Super Tuesday. American politics is a trip, man.

  7. Adam Parkhomenko
    Posted March 3, 2020 at 10:46 pm | Permalink

    Democrats just flipped a state house seat in Maine by 15 points tonight that Trump previously carried by 8 points. Terrible news for Susan Collins.

  8. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted March 3, 2020 at 11:02 pm | Permalink

    Those other establishment candidates got out in a seemingly co-ordinated fashion to help Biden though, did they not, KKT? If they kept cutting into Biden’s support Bernie might have run away with it already.

  9. Jean Henry
    Posted March 3, 2020 at 11:09 pm | Permalink

    t’s a pretty bad political strategy to energize your base by attacking the party within which you seek the nomination. Worked for Trump but that was the GOP. They love a racist.

  10. Jean Henry
    Posted March 3, 2020 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

    Bernie supporters should note how much the far right loves their anti-DEMparty narratives.

  11. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted March 3, 2020 at 11:14 pm | Permalink

    Weren’t you just pointing out ad hominems are a sign of weakness? You sling ’em like nickel bags all day.

  12. Jean Henry
    Posted March 3, 2020 at 11:16 pm | Permalink

    If the shoe fits…
    Racist is the kind of ad hominem I can get behind.,

  13. Jean Henry
    Posted March 3, 2020 at 11:17 pm | Permalink

    Bernie is winning Texas and it seems California. But not by enough.

    It’s going to get heated in Michigan.

  14. iRobert
    Posted March 3, 2020 at 11:18 pm | Permalink

    Sanders should still have the lead in delegates secured once California is all accounted for, but if Biden has kept the delegate totals close between himself and Sanders, he’ll have a shot at overtaking Sanders in the upcoming primaries.

  15. iRobert
    Posted March 3, 2020 at 11:21 pm | Permalink

    Biden’s going to win Michigan.

  16. Jean Henry
    Posted March 3, 2020 at 11:22 pm | Permalink

    It would have qualified her in past debates, but the DNC manages the criteria and they have become increasingly strict with each debate. The DNC has already said they would become more strict.

    Is there some reason the DNC should not control their own nomination process iRobert?

    Why doesn’t Tulsi run as an independent?

  17. Jean Henry
    Posted March 3, 2020 at 11:24 pm | Permalink

    Oops above comment was supposed to be on tussle thread re qualifications for the debate.

  18. iRobert
    Posted March 3, 2020 at 11:27 pm | Permalink

    Tulsi doesn’t want to help Trump win.

  19. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted March 3, 2020 at 11:38 pm | Permalink

    “If the shoe fits…
    Racist is the kind of ad hominem I can get behind.,”

    Big IF there to make slurs like that. You are the plantation party. Minorities will continue moving to Trump.

  20. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted March 3, 2020 at 11:44 pm | Permalink

    Hillary already fucked up an independent run for Tulsi with another outrageous Russia accusation as I replied in the tussle thread.

  21. Sad
    Posted March 3, 2020 at 11:57 pm | Permalink


    That endorsement from Mayor Pete really catapulted Biden into the lead.


  22. iRobert
    Posted March 3, 2020 at 11:59 pm | Permalink

    Are you going to take Mayor Pete’s advice, Sad, and joint Team Biden?

  23. Sad
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 12:05 am | Permalink

    I suppose I have to….

    So no revolution?

  24. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 12:09 am | Permalink

    I think the revolution is being cancelled.

  25. Sad
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 12:12 am | Permalink

    At least the demise of the revolution was televised.

    I never in a million years thought I would vote for Joe Biden. Never.

  26. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 12:16 am | Permalink

    I was hoping I could avoid it.

  27. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 12:34 am | Permalink

    A vote for Warren is a vote for Biden.

  28. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 12:56 am | Permalink

  29. Jean Henry
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 4:56 am | Permalink

    Ha! Hillary is why Tulsi failed and Pete is why Biden succeeded. This place is rich. Biden got the suburban vote AND the Black vote. And Millennials didn’t vote… again.

  30. Jean Henry
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 4:57 am | Permalink

    Yes, HW we’re all going to take your advice on how to vote..

  31. Jean Henry
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 4:59 am | Permalink

    I talked to a bunch of leftist Tulsi voters who are going Trump if it’s Biden. These are leftists who hate the Dem party. Good riddance. Wish we had dumped them in 2016.

  32. Jean Henry
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 5:03 am | Permalink

    The revolution was not televised so the kids didn’t show up.

  33. EOS
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 5:48 am | Permalink

    It was a choice between senility and socialism. Hard to be enthusiastic.

  34. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 7:05 am | Permalink

    Jean, you really have to get better at detecting humor.

    It’s causing a lot of confusion for you, though feeding your desperate need to see yourself as a critical tbinker.

  35. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 7:13 am | Permalink

    …though it is true that humor is much more difficult to detect when relayed purely through text…and the jokes themselves are very weak.

    For the record. The nomination is now Biden’s to lose. He’ll most likely have to wait until the second vote at the convention to secure it, but there is a growing possibility that he could get to 1,991 before the convention.

  36. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 7:17 am | Permalink

    You don’t have to outrun the bear, EOS. You just need to be faster than your friend.

  37. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 7:20 am | Permalink

    I apologize for calling you a critical t-binker, Jean. That was uncalled for.

  38. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 7:25 am | Permalink

    Trump supporters in Michigan are attempting to organize an ambush of Biden. They’re going to be voting in the Democratic primary for Sanders, like they did to Hillary in 2016.

    EOS, are you going to get out there and vote for Sanders, like your president has commanded?

  39. Bob
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 7:55 am | Permalink

    I guess we’ll get the mediocre hack we deserve. Like the deli counter. Take a number Dem, your turn is next. The real problem is the reported lines caused by closed polling places. It almost certainly tipped Texas for Buden.

  40. Sad
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 8:09 am | Permalink

    And all the votes Bloomberg stoke from Bernie.

  41. EOS
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 8:12 am | Permalink

    I’m thinking of voting for Pete.

    He admitted that he would have taken a pill to not be gay as late as when he was 25 and the LBGTQ community turned on him. Too bad laws have been passed preventing him from getting the help he was seeking.

  42. Frosted Flakes
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 8:23 am | Permalink

    It is hard to say what outcome would be better for Trump. A lot of the current Biden voters will vote for Trump if Sanders wins. A lot of the Sanders supporters will not vote at all if Sanders loses to Biden.

    The odds are high Trump will win again, in my opinion.

    Why was it so important for Biden to be the guy?

  43. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    Largely for the down-ballot races, FF.

    With Sanders at the top of the ballot, the Dems would have no hope of making gains in the senate, and would likely lose the house. State level Democratic candidates would suffer far more losses also.

  44. Sad
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    There’s always 2024

  45. EOS
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 8:49 am | Permalink


    Did a Dole or McCain nomination help their down-ballot races? I’m thinking it’s too late to save the House.

  46. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 9:05 am | Permalink

    Yes, EOS. Had the GOP nominated a more fringe candidate in 1996 or 2008, they would have lost more races down-ballot. It would depend on how out of the mainstream the nominee was though.

    Losers never get the credit due them for minimizing damage. Only people who’ve seen the analysis of various scenarios even realize how important it is, and the dramatic difference it makes in positioning for the next cycle.

  47. Sad
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    Who is Biden going to pick for VP.

    Women and POC chose Biden so do we have to let identity politics determine the VP?

    The joke in Mayor Pete circles is then we could have PB &J.


  48. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    I’ll bet Stacey Abrams is on both Biden’s and Sander’s short lists for VP consideration.

  49. EOS
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    The two candidates that had the media backing (Warren and Pete) didn’t get the votes. Bloomberg spent $500 million without getting much support. Can we all agree that voters are no longer controlled by the MSM and campaign finance reform isn’t needed?

  50. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    EOS, if Biden is the nominee, he’ll keep the race close at the very least. The Dems will hold control of the House and may take the Senate.

  51. EOS
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    I think it is far more likely that Durham will indict him in the early summer.

  52. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 10:05 am | Permalink

    Bloomberg’s strategy has been really terrible. A half-billion dollars coupled with a good strategy could win almost any race. We’re all just lucky that Bloomberg is just another arrogant billionaire.

    Current campaign finance laws are having an extraordinarily corrupting influence on the process. Funding by secret sources is inviting foreign interference.

  53. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    That would be good for Biden, EOS. Most people would see it as Trump fearing a fair fight.

  54. EOS
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 10:19 am | Permalink

    Bloomberg just quit

  55. Anonymous
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 10:22 am | Permalink

    BLOOMBERG: “I’ve always believed that defeating Donald Trump starts with uniting behind the candidate with the best shot to do it. After yesterday’s vote, it is clear that candidate is my friend and a great American, Joe Biden.”

  56. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 10:22 am | Permalink

    Yeah, about 48 hours later than he should have.

  57. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 10:28 am | Permalink

    Bloomberg did run a lot of good negative ads against Trump. I think I might start a dark-money funded Superpac solely for running ads exposing details about Trump’s history and comments.

  58. EOS
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 11:03 am | Permalink

    Join the crowd. Three years of fake news has only entrenched his support. Trump is the first President in my lifetime that wasn’t hand selected by the ruling elite.

  59. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    My ads will focus on the emoluments clause and on how Trump dodged the draft….stuff like that, which his supporters actually care about.

  60. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 11:21 am | Permalink

    …oh, and how he fucks porn-stars and is really a demon sent by Satan to turn the White House into a brothel and destroy morality in America…stuff like that.

  61. EOS
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    Well, good luck with that. Its just the kind of stuff that will change my vote. (Please note sarcasm font)

  62. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 11:37 am | Permalink

    Oh, I know what works. Eroding support is my specialty. I realize you are immune though.

  63. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 11:42 am | Permalink

    …and thanks to the election laws the GOP passed, I can do it all without being identified.

  64. Frosted Flakes
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 11:49 am | Permalink

    The way this is playing out has to feel devastating to many in community. You guys need to figure out how you got here because this feels like it is going to be a disaster.

  65. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

    Agreed, FF. Can you give us some tips as to how you have been coping?

  66. EOS
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 12:34 pm | Permalink


    Can you make the porn star a Russian who enjoys golden showers. That would really be a clincher, right?

  67. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    I like your thinking, EOS.

  68. EOS
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

    Definition of insanity?

  69. Frosted Flakes
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    Do: Bale out.

    Don’t: Bail out.

  70. Sad
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

    Like FF knows anything


    They said Trump would never win.

  71. Frosted Flakes
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

    When they lose the emo vote it will signify their permanent demise, Sad. I am only letting you know because I like you, Sad.

  72. Frosted Flakes
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 2:59 pm | Permalink


    Seriously though: Who is “they”? Hillary promoted Trump, as the preferred opponent, in her pied-piper strategy. I warned the MM community about Hillary vs. Trump. I also warned the MM community about their roles in their own self-sabotage-stories, which came true.

    A lot can still happen. It does not look good right now.

    (Maybe you were being sarcastic?)

  73. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    So, is that your answer, FF?

    Are you telling me YouTube videos of guys yelling is how you’ve been coping?

    I can’t say that’s very encouraging.

  74. Frosted Flakes
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    I was wrong about Biden having any chance of getting the nomination. He is obviously the establishment choice. It looks orchestrated. Why though? Biden is, among other things, a stupid old man. Why him? [Gulp]

  75. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    My point, EOS, is that anti-Trump ad campaigns with undisclosed sources of funds are going to use Trump’s own words to erode support. I just wanted to make that assertion in a theatrical way, by saying it would be me. I’m not really going to start a superpac.

    But coping with Biden being the nominee is probably going to require me to take advantage of Michigan’s new THC legalization. I’m likely to be high as a kite from now til Christmas.

  76. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

    Stupid old men are the only ones that get past all the filters. A wise person would almost certainly think a lot more doe themself. And that poses a risk to profiteers of all sorts. They prefer a guy who doesn’t ask too many questions.

  77. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    The two women that stormed the stage at the Biden rally convinced me to drink more milk.

    Where was his secret service detail? At a brothel in Mexico I assume.

  78. Sad
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    Maybe you could combine the two. With all the crazy shit the stores have now I bet if you go to Bloom on Miller Rd in Ann Arbor they probably have Marijuana Milk.

    Is there such a thing HW?

  79. EOS
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    My point, Robert, is that after 3 years of constant lies and treasonous acts, there is nothing more that can be said about Trump that will be believed. MSM has no more credibility – unknown sources even less.

  80. Frosted Flakes
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    There is only one way to cope: Try to point to the truth and try to expose the lies. I think you did a good job latching onto Tulsi. You must feel a lot better about things than many other people here. I did wonder , for example, why you took it so easy on the people smearing Tulsi. Maybe it was strategic on your part? I know I hesitated to defend her because of how I am perceived and how a defense of her would be interpreted. Fools here did not even understand the NEW KNOWLEDGE connection to her smearing. (Probably still don’t get it.) My point being I think you fighting back vigorously against some of the non-sense here would be therapeutic for you and helpful toward others working through their delusions. I think being neutral and polite is a form of “bailing out” people who need to be “baled out” (see silly video).

    Anyway, I hope you are not taking that as a criticism of you. Not my intent….

  81. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    Well, it’s not about trying to convince people of anything that isn’t true. It would be about convincing people that what they already know matters.

    Trump’s offensive behavior is on video and audio. Support among people who don’t like his lack of morals can be eroded.

    Calling the emoluments clause “phony” is a good example. That comment has tested as something that erodes support. A number of people that would otherwise vote for Trump can be discouraged from supporting him when they are made aware of that comment especially in light of details regarding the profits Trump has made in relation to defying it.

  82. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    I understand your comments regarding my not vigorously defending Tulsi here. Had Tulsi had any real chance I may have written a bit more on the topic, but not with much purpose.

    I have made fun of Jean (and Mark) a bit for the absurdity of their suggestions that Tulsi is being “groomed” as a Russian “asset.” I expect I’ll get a bit more mileage out of that one too. I like to tease people more than imagine I can influence them in any positive way.

    I don’t feel like it’s important to convince anyone here of anything. Though I do think it’s interesting to exchange perspectives on various topics. I see everyone here as having something to offer. Some people have intriguing insights. Some have a great sense of irony. Some are very quick studies and researchers. Some are extraordinarily creative, and some are skilled in various ways.

    Occasionally I share a perspective or explanation of something, mostly just to answer a question or to see what other people’s thoughts are on the topic.

    There is no doubt in my mind that Tulsi was marginalized systematically from the start because of her open criticism of war profiteering. That’s really the only reason. I haven’t expected her to get anywhere but into trouble potentially.

  83. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    My last comment was for FF, and the one before it was for EOS. I probably should have made that clear.

    Like I said, I’m super high.

  84. Frosted Flakes
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

    That makes sense iRobert. I think your teasing can be effective too. I probably come across as too harsh sometimes… I do think there is a practical function to offering an opposing point of view even if there is no way an “opponent” will change their mind—because there is almost always silent bystanders taking notes. In a way arguments are usually for those bystanders, imo. God bless the stubborn people here, who don’t realize, changing their mind was never the point of the exercise.

  85. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

    “Calling the emoluments clause “phony” is a good example.”

    You don’t think it’s the claim that he violated it he is calling phony? You think he is literally calling the clause itself that? I think there is a lot of willful misinterpretation of what should be obvious in the President’s statements.

  86. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

    His exact words were, “You people with this phony Emoluments Clause,”

    It’s reasonable to figure that to mean what it appears to mean. In light of his violations and attempts to violate it, it makes even more sense to take it as he said it.

  87. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 6:08 pm | Permalink

    A campaign ad playing the video of Trump’s comments along with a detailed list of how Trump’s businesses have benefitted financially from his being president and from decisions he’s made as president, would be an effective one is my point.

    His comments and actions are a gold mine for those sorts of attack ads. His open displays of immorality are especially valuable in putting together as meant to erode his support.

  88. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

    I’m not as dumb as autocorrect makes me look. Though I am going blind rapidly as I try to type in font about a millimeter high on this primitive iPhone of mine.

    Anyway, my point was that eroding turnout or support for a candidate can be very effective if targeted properly and with a treasure trove of material as Trump provides.

    I still expect the election to be very close and am far from confident in unseating Trump. A close race is important regardless for down-ballot success.

  89. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

    “It’s reasonable to figure that to mean what it appears to mean.”

    Not if you are familiar with how he talks. It should be obvious he is referring to the phony claim by “you people” he violated the clause. He gives examples of Presidents who actually ran businesses in office, which he does not.

  90. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 7:05 pm | Permalink

    Maybe it would have been better to use his childish name-calling as an example. Or maybe his having sex with a porn star and paying her off to stay quiet. The point is, he’s a gold mine of bad behavior. And that’s the stuff of great attack ads.

  91. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

    Those names are entertaining to millions of adults for good reason. Crying Chuck for example. If he really did cry at the White House when Trump let him know that he knows everything it would be hilarious.

    What makes you think Stormy would be a problem now when voters already sent a clear message they don’t care about that?

  92. iRobert
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

    Well, lots of people just really didn’t like Hillary.

    I’m wondering if the Hunter payoff will do a lot of damage to Biden support. I assume it will do some.

    I also wonder what sorts of gaffs we’ve got coming from Biden over the next eight months.

    The Sanders people will be pretty easy to discourage from voting for Biden also. I’m guessing Bob won’t be bothering.

  93. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 7:48 pm | Permalink

    Trump will disintegrate Joe. There will just be a little pile of sand left in an empty suit. No way can he withstand a debate let alone a full campaign.

  94. Bob
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

    Highly unlikely that Biden will beat Trump. Finally we agree. The Hunter Biden story will dog him worse than the bullshit email story did Hillary.

  95. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

    Haven’t heard the news? Biliary Blinton back in court over exactly that. Only it’s not bullshit. Mishandling classified information and getting away with it is bullshit.

  96. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted March 4, 2020 at 9:25 pm | Permalink

    Massive turnout for Trump in primaries. Do you have any idea of the morale and excitement among Trump voters?

    While some in the media spent much of Super Tuesday reveling in Joe Biden’s awakening from political death, they entirely missed the untold story of Super Tuesday: President Donald Trump’s record-breaking vote counts and turnout.

    Despite being an uncontested incumbent, President Trump managed to break several turnout and vote-count records in blue states and key swing states.

  97. Jean Henry
    Posted March 5, 2020 at 4:04 am | Permalink

    Yes HW. He will probably win re-election.
    Democrats are so busy yelling at one another. We barely noticed.
    Thanks for the heads up.
    Not that it or anything will unify us.

  98. iRobert
    Posted March 6, 2020 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    Tulsi is still in the race to demonstrate what a stranglehold the warmongers have on the media and the nomination process.

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