“I don’t know what I can do to save people anymore.” A Michigan ER nurse, saying that “life and death” decisions are being made right now because of capacity and resource issues, begs people to “stay home” in order to slow the spread of COVID-19.

As of right now, Michigan is one of the top five states in the country with regard to diagnosed COVID-19 cases. According to today’s numbers, we now have nearly 2,300 confirmed cases, and 43 people here in our state have died as a result of the virus. And, as predicted, it’s beginning to take its toll on our emergency care infrastructure, which is being pushed far beyond its limits.

Here, to give you an idea of what’s going on in some of our Michigan hospitals, is a social media post from an emergency room nurse in Novi by the name of Mary MacDonald. It’s sobering stuff. MacDonald paints a bleak picture — one in which nurses are being assigned single surgical masks, and told to make them work for the duration — one in which, for lack of resources, life and death decisions are already being made on behalf of patients. To give you a concrete example, MacDonald says that, during a shift yesterday in Southfield, one of her patients was put on the hospital’s very last available ventilator. The implication, of course, being that the next patient in need of one may not be able to receive treatment. And we know this is happening elsewhere. Yesterday, it was reported that Beaumont hospitals were also approaching ventilator capacity. [The Big 3 are coming forward to assist in the manufacture of ventilators, but they’re still some time away, regardless of what Donald Trump may say. And, as of right now, we only have approximately 1,000 in the entire state.]

“It’s getting to the point now that it’s going to be just like Italy. We intubated, from 10:00 PM last night to this morning, we intubated two of my patients within a half-hour. And upwards of 10 patients were put on ventilators. My patient took the last ventilator available in the hospital,” MacDonald says in her video. She goes on to add, “Normally, if a patient was to pass away, it would be because we tried everything that we could, we did everything that we could, we had all the resources and all the people that we needed to help save this patient’s life, and it was just their time. And now we aren’t giving the patient the time to choose whether it’s their time or not. We’re choosing for them.”

I don’t mention any of this to scare you. I’m not trying to be sensationalistic about what’s happening. I think it’s important that we remain calm about this. But, at the same time, people need to know that, when people like this ER nurse urge us to stay home, and disengage from others, they do so for a very a legitimate reason. Our hospitals are being hit by a tsunami right now, and it’s our duty to give them a fighting chance by staying inside, keeping away from others, and slowing the spread of this deadly disease. Our front-line heath care workers are putting their lives on the line right now, at this very minute, and we owe it to them to do everything in our power to shelter-in-place and stay as healthy as we possibly can. I know it might seem like it to a lot of you, given what you’re seeing outside your window right now, but this is deadly fucking serious. This is literally life and death. This is an incredibly virulent virus, and, when you’re out, you’re helping spread it. So, please, if you can, stay in.

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  1. John Brown
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 5:15 am | Permalink

    Stay home and build a cold frame from leftover plastic sheeting and scrap lumber. You can start your lettuce seeds outside now.

    Stay home and write your congressperson about the importance of conducting the next election as scheduled, no matter what. We need to plan an alternative to lining up now so we have time to deal with vote suppressing Republicans legal challenges.

    Stay home and reach out by phone to folks who might not be as experienced with the homesteading skills, mutual support and defence skills that we all may need before this episode ends.

  2. KKT
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 7:22 am | Permalink

    I sent this to everyone in my family last night. Based on the responses I have in my inbox this morning, I think it finally did the trick of breaking though to them. They had been reluctant to face the reality of the situation.

  3. Bob
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    It’s a shame that it is taking this inevitable explosion in cases to get through to people. What will it take for idiots like HW to admit their dear leader is a dangerous fool who cost lives? His poll numbers in a month should be in the toilet.

  4. Mark Elliott by proxy
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 8:46 am | Permalink

    A nursing manager at Mt Sinai Hospital in NYC just died from coronavirus. Nurses at the hospital have been wearing trash bags because of the lack of protective gear.


  5. Ben Rhodes by proxy
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    It has never seemed stranger that the United States has spent trillions of dollars fighting terrorists over the last two decades. We could save more lives than that entire effort if our government could get our public health system the resources it needs.


  6. Eel
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    It’s pretty easy by this point to predict the posts that the Trumpists won’t comment on.

  7. Frosted Flakes
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    Squidward is on a roll.

  8. Anonymous
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    From someone on Fabecook after watching this video: “A close friend of mine is a firefighter in Southfield. He called me 2 days ago and told me how bad it is. This just reinforced it.”

  9. Anonymous
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    Remember what EOS said. It’s not that bad. “The coronavirus has a mortality rate of 2% only because most persons have mild symptoms and aren’t tested or reported.”

  10. Anonymous
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    Remember what Hyborian Warlord said on march 15. It’ll be over soon. “New coronavirus cases in China slowing to a trickle. 11 new cases yesterday.”

  11. Jean Henry
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

    Maybe the Trumpists will care now that so many police and other first responders are dying. A friend is now producing large quantities of WHO standard-compliant hand sanitizer in his shop in Hamtramck. A Detroit police officer came in and begged for some. They have no protective gear and no sanitizer. People are donating their orders to the police. Liberals…

    One thing we all learn in these scenarios is how counter-productive divisiveness among workers is and how much we need institutional workers and bureaucrats to do their damn jobs.

  12. Jean Henry
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

    I have heard that hospitals are placing DNR orders on anyone who codes in a ventilator…

    Jesus Fucking Christ.

    I’m more likely than most to become one of those people if I catch this thing.

    The irony is that I should self-quarantine because I have people who depend upon me but I would also probably end up breaking quarantine because I have people who depend upon me.

  13. Jean Henry
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 12:51 pm | Permalink


  14. Frosted Flakes
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

    I know this against the narrative that one group is taking this less seriously, but if you are a high risk person, then self-quarentine. Don’t fly to California. Don’t go to the grocery store to buy tomato’s for Chili. Self-quaurentine. Didn’t EOS offer the same advice days ago? Should we really interpret HW’s refusal to be hysterical a sign that he is not taking things seriously by following safe steps? Being more emotional means nothing if you are not taking the rather easy steps to reduce risk.

  15. Sad
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

    John Brown it’s not the end of the world.

    We don’t need to start growing our own food.

    I think even FF and I would agree on this.

    Everything will go back to normal soon.

  16. Frosted Flakes
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think there will be a food shortage in the USA. There will be a lack of variety. I think growing a garden especially to avoid trips to the grocery story for fresh vegetables (that are handled a lot) is a great idea. It’s a great idea anyway…

    It was John Brown’s most sane comment yet, imo.

    Sorry Sad.

  17. EOS
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 2:37 pm | Permalink


    I don’t think I ever used those words, “it’s not that bad”. However, I stand by my statement that the mortality rate is not as high as initially reported. The majority of persons who have it haven’t yet been tested. The denominator in the reported ratio is much larger. This is what is causing the virus to spread so fast.

    Some speculate on the web that China did a better job of containing the disease by incinerating the afflicted before they had a chance to spread the virus to others. Something like a million cell phones dropped off with no trace. No I didn’t fact check it. But what did they do to stop it? Do they have millions of ventilators?

  18. Sad
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

    You two agree that We should be out there rutting around in the dirt?

    It’s kind of messy.

  19. iRobert
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    EOS: “Something like a million cell phones dropped off with no trace. No I didn’t fact check it. But what did they do to stop it? Do they have millions of ventilators?”

    The Chinese government forcibly quarantined many millions of people at will. Being able to force everyone to do exactly as ordered, by force, gave them a significant tool in flattening the curve. The closest we could have come to doing that is to have had an intelligent, highly capable person in the White House who could have mobilized the collective conscious of the country as early on as possible. Instead, we had the dumbest clown possible occupying that office, who was even too stupid to listen to the experts. He still isn’t, and is clearly incapable of comprehending the fairly obvious situation.

  20. iRobert
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    I meant to say “collective consciousness.”

    Anyway, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Chinese government has also been reporting false information. They’re not known for their openness and honesty. It’s likely their numbers are a lot worse.

  21. EOS
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    No, because the American people are too stupid to listen to the experts. I’ve tried to explain to family members and to persons here, to no avail. Everybody has an excuse why they need to go out and shop, or travel, or enjoy spring break. Everybody scrambling to grab the last package of toilet paper. Even persons at high risk take minimal precautions. But everybody is quick to blame Trump for a virus that is decimating people worldwide. If you value your life, you will take steps to avoid coming in contact with the virus. And if you value the lives of others, you’ll stop activities that put them at risk.

  22. Sad
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    EOS you’ve repeatedly said Trump is the best President in your life time.

    As President shouldn’t he have known that Americans are too dumb to listen to experts?

    You’re not going to try to grow your own food are you?

  23. EOS
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    Even marijuana dispensaries are deemed critical. People can drive up and purchase buds that have been handled by countless individuals and then the return home, use their fingers to break it up, and then repeatedly bring their hands to their mouths to inhale, sometimes even sharing with several others. And it’s all Trump’s fault.

  24. EOS
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 3:37 pm | Permalink


    Do you actually think any American President can keep all the people in their homes against their will? Would you want a government so big that they could do that? There is not another person or other group you can point to that can rightfully accept the blame. Either you isolate yourself or you have to accept the responsibility of your actions.

  25. Sad
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

    I’ll let the others point out the flaw in your arguments.

    But are you going to plant a panic garden? You’re not trippin like JB and FF are you?

    I mean Easter’s just around the corner and the President seemed to imply that we would be moving on?

    You can’t even plant a tomatoe yet and buy the time you could plant one and grow it the season will be fall and this will all be behind us?

  26. Lynne
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    While the virus is not Trump’s fault, the way it has been handled absolutely is his fault. We wouldn’t need to have such extreme shelter-in-place rules had we taken a test and quarantine the sick approach. Too late now.

    I am kind of curious about how FF manages without going to the grocery store. Here, there is literally no other choice. All of the home delivery options are no longer available. We did do some meal planning in order to reduce our trips out but that is all we can do.

  27. iRobert
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

    You’re probably right, EOS, that too many Americans are too stupid to listen to experts, or have enough sense themselves to understand the best collective response. But Trump is clearly one of those stupid people. He may even be one of the stupidest.

    A president who is not an imbecile could and would have at least mobilized his government as necessary. A president who established himself as honest and intelligent would have had some positive sway over the public response as well. Every little bit make a considerable difference in this sort of situation.

  28. Sad
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

    What do you mean they won’t deliver Lynne?

  29. Frosted Flakes
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    I have been to the grocery story twice in 3 weeks. I went at odd hours and did not even need to stand in line. I am not high risk. I would never go to the grocery store just to get some tomatoes or a few items at this point. Plan out what you need for a month if you can afford it. Get it and don’t go back. Order stuff online. Eat simple foods. Freeze stuff. This isn’t rocket science. If I was high risk I would rely on friends or family because it would be my duty to avoid catching it. As it is I have told my elderly neighbors to let me shop for them if they need supplies and I will get them when I need to go out again. Quit with the excuses.

  30. Frosted Flakes
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    Sad just fell off the turnip truck apparently. Observe the world around you:

    “Gardening, genealogy, fishing, bowling and biking are some of the most popular hobbies in America. Other popular hobbies include photography, collecting, reading, music, hiking and sports.

    The joy of playing in the dirt while producing fresh vegetables or flowers makes gardening an extremely popular hobby. This is a low-cost form of recreation, as all it takes is a little dirt, a packet of seeds and some water to get started. Studies show that gardening is a more effective stress-reducer than reading a good book. Gardening also promotes physical health through exercise and the production of nutritious food items.

    Second only to gardening, Americans are jumping on the genealogy bandwagon by storm. “

  31. Lynne
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    Sad, I mean that all of the delivery services I have tried: Shipt, Whole Foods Prime, Safeway, etc are so overwhelmed that it is impossible to get a window. Even the services where they shop for you and bring it out to your car are overwhelmed.

    FF, ah I have been to the grocery store ONCE in the past week where I picked up a good two weeks worth of food. I sanitized half the store while I was there with my clorox wipes and when I came home I put my clothes in the laundry, took a shower, and then I put everything away. So maybe shut your sanctimonious pie hole for once? hahahaha. as if.

    This is the protocol I used too in case anyone is interested. It is good info.


  32. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    It’s like you have some kind of curse. You can’t win.


    In 2009, the H1N1 outbreak hit the United States, leading to 274,304 hospitalizations, 12,469 deaths, and a depletion of N95 respirator masks.

    A federally backed task force and a safety equipment organization both recommended to the Obama administration that the stockpile be replenished with the 100 million masks used after the H1N1 outbreak.

    Charles Johnson, president of the International Safety Equipment Association, said that advice was never heeded.

    “Our association is unaware of any major effort to restore the stockpile to cover that drawdown,” he said.

  33. Lynne
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

    I don’t even have the time to try to fact check that HW but my experience has been that the Washington Examiner is not the best source. Nor are you. Regardless, even if that is true and Obama failed to replenish the stockpile, Trump has been the president for over three years so it is HIS failure to replenish the stockpile that matters. This is on him and the people who voted for him plain and simple.

  34. EOS
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

    People say Cuomo would be a great Presidential candidate. I watched him talk on the news for the past week or so. Far better than Biden. How’s that working out for the State of New York?

  35. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    “The national shortage of N95 respirator masks can be traced back to 2009 after the H1N1 swine flu pandemic, when the Obama administration was advised to replenish a national stockpile but did not, according to reports from BLOOMBERG NEWS and the LOS ANGELES TIMES.”

  36. Frosted Flakes
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 5:42 pm | Permalink


    Do I have all of this straight? You are high risk. In the last 4 or 5 weeks you have travelled to Florida. Did a cruise despite considering it might be a risk at the time. Travelled to MI (a week or two ago). You mentioned that you had a choice of staying in MI alone versus traveling by plane to CA 2where you would land at a residence with multiple people, your dog, near your BF? You chose CA despite your health care providers being here in MI? You talked about going to the store just to get tomatoes for Chili last week, no? You are now talking about the risk factor of a roommates son returning from University with a cold? You are talking about returning to MI in 4-5 weeks now? It sounds like you are putting yourself into some risky situations. Just curious, do you regret any of these decisions? Could you have played it safer do you think? Just curious. Some of this risk seems foreseeable. What do you think?

  37. Sad
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

    Ha Ha

    Is that from 1953 FF?

    Bowling? Genealogy?

    Good luck with your gardening. Maybe you and John Brown can put your differences aside to work on your carrot patch.

    Where are you Lynne? Ypsilanti?

  38. Jean Henry
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    Workers and Small businesses (including non-profits), this is what the stimulus bill actually offers you:
    -Quick turnaround 25k small business loan
    -Emergency Small Business Loans (emergency SBA 7(a) loans): Provide funding for up to $10 million for eligible nonprofits and small businesses, permitting them to cover costs of payroll, operations, and debt service.
    General Eligibility: Available to entities that existed on 3/1/2020 and had paid employees.
    -Loan Use: Loan funds could be used to make payroll and associated costs, including health insurance premiums, facilities costs, and debt service.
    -Loan Forgiveness: Employers that maintain employment between March 1 and June 30 would be eligible to have their loans forgiven, essentially turning the loan into a grant.
    -Employee Retention Payroll Tax Credit: Creates a refundable payroll tax credit of up to $5,000 for each employee on the payroll when certain conditions are met.
    -Expanded Unemployment Insurance: Includes coverage for workers who are furloughed, gig workers, and freelancers. Increases payments by $600 per week for four months on top of what state unemployment programs pay. (In Michigan that almost triples the current maximum unemployment pay out)
    And Speaker Pelosi promises another bill with more for workers and businesses and state and local government.

  39. EOS
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

    A N95 respirator mask will prevent an infected person from coughing and spreading infectious particles through droplets to some extent. It is far less effective in preventing a healthy individual from breathing in a virus particle. Once it gets moist, it actually traps virus particles and makes it more likely for the wearer to inhale them. A hospital worker needs a full hazmat suit to be protected to any degree. And without them, they are merely conduits for further infections.

  40. Frosted Flakes
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

    Genealogy seems popular. Bowling on the list does raise some concerns about how reliable that article is…Haha

  41. Jean Henry
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    So I looked into this whole mask thing. HW as usual has taken a partial truth and inflated it to culpability. First off, the Obama didn’t replenish the masks story is everywhere in the right wing misinformation pipeline. Top 20 results are right wing press. They are spinning hard.

    Apparently it is true that Obama didn’t replenish the stores. But neither did Trump and he’s had years to do it as well. They didn’t do it in part because masks are normally easily produced in large quantities quickly — except when the country where they are mostly produced is overrun by an epidemic and has to shut down.

    So Trump could have seen this coming during this crisis for sure and addressed earlier . Obama could have paid more attention to the supply chain vulnerability and not relied so much on the market to provide. And apparently even Bush had been warned.
    “Industry officials have been warning for years about the perils of relying on foreign supply chains for essential medical supplies.

    Mike Bowen, whose company, Prestige Ameritech, makes masks in a factory in North Richland Hills, Tex., said that he told officials in the Bush, Obama and Trump administrations that about 95 percent of surgical masks are manufactured outside the United States, including by American companies that moved factories overseas to reduce costs. Mr. Bowen said he had repeatedly told federal officials that American hospitals would be at the mercy of other countries in a pandemic.”

    So this was a failure with many contributors but only one guy actually running the country at the time of urgency…

    I’m surprised HW didn’t blame Hillary’s emails or Benghazi.

  42. Lynne
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 7:24 pm | Permalink

    FF, regret in what way? I made the best decisions I could with the information I had at the time. Sure, I would have made different decisions then if I had the information I have now. I didn’t. Why not? Because the government agency that is in charge of assessing such situations did not get the appropriate information out before I left. Also talking about stuff and doing stuff are very different things. I *may* drive home to Michigan in 5-6 weeks. I am talking about it because I have not yet made a decision to do it. I don’t have enough information to make the decision but at least I have enough information now to know that I have to wait. I may end up staying here.

    Sad, I have been shelter-in-place in California for over a week.

    JH, yup. Trump has been president for 3 years and also had access to a lot more information about this virus early on than anyone else. At any rate, I imagine that we will handle in our usual American way and panic and hoard. I expect that once this is over, Trump with bipartisan support will stockpile medical supplies as we have never seen, before! It will be a waste of money in the same way that a lot of our anti-terrorism measures were after 9/11, but it beats going to war. Plus an oversupply of medical equipment is way better than an undersupply.

  43. EOS
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

    No Lynne,

    I call BS. The information was readily available, but you chose to ignore it. And you are college educated? It was well known as early as Jan, certainly by early January. You are a danger to people around you because of decisions you made. You are even still making excuses about why you need to leave your house to go shopping. If I get sick, I won’t blame Trump, but people like you. Since the pandemic was widely reported, you took a cruise and travelled to 3 states and are even now considering a cross country trip. Your selfishness could result in hundreds of deaths and you don’t care. What is it that makes you so oblivious to the potential harm you might cause?

  44. EOS
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

    Early February

  45. Frosted Flakes
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 8:30 pm | Permalink

    A week ago people knew that certain choices were risky (and riskier for people with underlying health issues) including: 1) choosing airplane travel; 2) choosing cohabitation when living solo is option; 3) moving 2000 miles from your health care system when you have an immediate underlying condition.

    I am losing track of time. Didn’t we all mostly know these things 2 weeks ago? I realize I am also making certain assumptions which is why I asked direct questions. Feel free to correct my assumptions…

  46. Jean Henry
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

    God you all are pricks.

  47. dirtgrain
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

    Via Reddit: https://youtu.be/bNaBPGpd-8w?t=470

  48. Lynne
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 9:36 pm | Permalink

    JH. I think some people are dealing with their anxiety by being jerks.

    What I find interesting though is how they seem to be focusing on my personal choices while simultaneously ignoring the bad choices Trump has made with this. *shrug*

  49. Lynne
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

    But just for the record, since a week ago I have sheltered-in-place.

  50. Frosted Flakes
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 10:00 pm | Permalink

    May I ask: 1) Sheltering in place with roommates when you could have been living solo? 2) What is your plan if you develop symptoms? You already mentioned that your network coverage does not extend past Michigan right?

    Feel free to correct my assumptions.

  51. Lynne
    Posted March 26, 2020 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

    FF, I would have only been solo until Mar30 when I would have had to return to Ypsi. I have two roommates at my Ypsi house, one of whom is super risky to me for various reasons. California is the safer option.

    I made the decision to fly back to California when I did for several reasons. My dog is here. My friends here are like family and I know will keep me sane. My ergonomic stuff like a desk, chair, keyboard, etc are here which makes it much more comfortable to work, since I am still fortunate enough to have a job. The weather is nicer here.

    Experts were saying that a two-week quarantine probably would not be enough and it could last until July or August. I also know that a week ago there were relatively few cases but because of the exponential growth rate of infection, there would soon be many more. It would be safer to travel earlier rather than later. I took a ton of precautions on the way. handwashing, sanitizing, etc. It was easy to stay 6ft away from people in the airport. There were only 5 other people in first class with me and we were very spaced apart. Then I was back and in isolation since.

    My insurance is a PPO. I have coverage out here, just at a higher cost because everything is out-of-network. If I need healthcare, I can get it.

  52. I bet HW that McCabe wouldn’t be fired and all I got was this stupid name
    Posted March 27, 2020 at 6:02 am | Permalink

    Aloha, for international news without the propaganda associated with anything Democrats or Republicans touch, I go to this web site,
    This site is about the only place I have found where you can get objective information about events in China and Russia.

    JH does not care for this site because it exposes the neo-liberal hypocrisy that the establishment Dems advocate.

    HW would never visit this site because it regularly exposes Trump and the neo-con lies that the Republicans advocate.

    FF’s and others want to believe China is lying and there must be many unreported deaths in China. He and iRobert just can’t fathom that such an “evil” regime, would in fact protect its citizens better than our “liberal” democracy.
    If you read news that is not guided by propaganda imperatives you would know that China initially did exactly what Italy and the US are now doing. The Chinese quickly learned that having infected folks, not in serious enough condition to hospitalize, shelter at home, was the quickest way to spread the virus. It was only after they engaged in more draconian tactics did they bring the infection rate under control. The facts are that China did take folks who had been exposed, but were not symptomatic and quarantined them—the exact opposite of what the US and other Western countries have done. China shut down all travel to and from Wuhan. Anyone who tested positive out side of Wuhan was placed in quarantine, thus they stopped the spread of the infection in other cities.
    If you go to the John Hopkins dashboard, you can see that China was very effective in containing the spread of the virus to Wuhan. The US has utterly failed to contain the virus-a failure of Trumps initial decision to not quarantine folks who were exposed to the virus on cruise ships and were allowed to travel home facilitated.

    Trump now wants to double down on that idiotic decision, by lifting the shelter in place orders for Easter services. We maybe heading to a world where we have permanent international travel restrictions. China which seems to have effectively stopped the virus from decimating its population, vs the rest of the world which after the millions of deaths may have developed the elusive “herd immunity”,(which really means the acceptance of a continuing number of deaths from this virus as we adjust to co-existing with it.)

    The Bahamas imposed a sever curfew. The total economy is shut down. The country has fewer folks than Washtenaw County but has 10 million visitors a year. They have been able to contain the virus to 5 cases for nearly 10 days. I see where Washtenaw now has nearly 80 cases by itself already, along with at least one death.

    Anyone notice how Putin has put off the decision on extending Presidential term limits in Russia? Those evil Russians and Chinese everything they do is so nefarious.

  53. John Brown
    Posted March 27, 2020 at 7:04 am | Permalink

    Sad, your analysis that “everything will get back to normal soon” is not supported by evidence. Covid19 aside, nothing is normal and normalcy is not likely soon if folks like HW and FF have any say.

    We’ll have our first lettuce in 3 weeks. It will not have been handled by farm workers or shipped, making it safer during a pandemic. But you’re welcome to call me panicked, rather than prepared, if it makes your own lack of preparedness more bearable! Stay healthy.

  54. EOS
    Posted March 27, 2020 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    Trump’s approval rate is surging. Lot’s of people think he is doing a great job handling this crisis.

  55. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted March 27, 2020 at 8:32 am | Permalink

    “HW would never visit this site because it regularly exposes Trump and the neo-con lies that the Republicans advocate.”

    Pretty sure I came across that site before I ever heard of you. My impression is it is garbage.

    Trump a Neo-Con? He is the opposite of a GWB. Obama conformed to that mold though. I think you are such a crusty, ancient socialist your brain is unable to adapt to anything new.

  56. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted March 27, 2020 at 8:59 am | Permalink

    Got a call yesterday from a lifelong Dem who until now hated Donald Trump. She likes how he is handling the outbreak; level-headed and a calming influence. Her elderly father, also a lifelong Dem is also now supporting the President.

  57. Jean Henry
    Posted March 27, 2020 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    Just a note here that you can go outside. I’m not sure why Mark made it seem like we can’t.

    Get out. Go for a walk. Go someplace remote and move your body. Work in your backyard. Just stay 6’ away from others.
    And avoid touching things others have touched. Difscesoecially. Don’t pet other people’s dogs Right now.

    I take Clorox wipes with me in the car for pumping gas etc. you can make your own with a solution of 1/2T bleach to a gallon of water. Just throw some paper towels of rags in a Tupperware with solution.

    But for god sakes get outside each day or you will go mad.

  58. Jean Henry
    Posted March 27, 2020 at 9:47 am | Permalink

    HW and EOS— remember how people loved GW and the rush to war after 9-11?
    Scared people lean on authority and want to trust it. That doesn’t mean they are right or that the support is durable once the consequences are well known.

    We haven’t come close to the full expression of this pandemic.

    Let’s see how they feel then.

    He better not fire Fauci.

  59. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted March 27, 2020 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    But you are scared and you haven’t moved to Trump.

  60. Jean Henry
    Posted March 27, 2020 at 10:07 am | Permalink

    I didn’t support bush or the gulf wars either.
    Because I’m not a sheep.

  61. EOS
    Posted March 27, 2020 at 10:11 am | Permalink

    This is for Lynne and others like her. It’s A week or two old. Now you know.

    A must must read…

    Copied from a friend in Boston. Please, pour a coffee and read it. Digest it. Share it.
    Thanks to Dr. Julie Silver for sharing this— please read the whole thing, it is an important summary:

    From Dr. Julie Silver —“It has been years since I have posted anything on this page. As a physician at Harvard Medical School, I have amazing access to the best information and resources for #Covid19. I know people are getting a lot of information, and not all of it is accurate. My friend Dr. Reem Ghalib summarized the situation in one of the best social media posts to date on this topic (copied/pasted below). Please read what she has to say and share with your loved ones, friends, and colleagues. Urge people to be calm and logical in their decision making. Err on the side of caution. Re the info below–note that “coronavirus” is used generically to mean the specific strain Covid 19. I will apologize in advance for not responding to comments as work is very hectic right now:
    Dear Friends,

    So much confusion, misinformation and denial is bouncing around on social media about the coronavirus that I thought I would try to explain, in plain language, why the experts see this as such an emergency.

    You will see the claim online that this virus is a lot like the viruses that cause colds, and that if you get it, it will probably just seem like a bad cold and you are very unlikely to die. Depending on who you are, these statements are probably true. But they are incomplete, and the missing information is the key to understanding the problem.

    This is a coronavirus that is new to the human population, jumping into people late last year from some kind of animal, probably at a wildlife market in Wuhan, China. It is related to the viruses that cause colds, and acts a lot like them in many ways. It is very easy to transmit through the respiratory droplets that all of us give off. But nobody has ever been exposed to this before, which means nobody has any immunity to it.

    The virus is now moving explosively through the human population. While most people will recover, about 20 percent of the people who catch it will wind up with a serious disease. They will get pneumonia that causes shortness of breath, and they may need hospitalization.

    Some of those people will get so sick that they cannot be saved and will die of the pneumonia. The overall death rate for people who develop symptoms seems to be 2 or 3 percent. Once we have enough testing to find out how many people caught the virus but did not develop symptoms, that might come down to about 1 percent, optimistically.

    This is a large number. It is at least 10 times higher than the mortality rate for the seasonal flu, for instance, which in some years kills 60,000 or 70,000 Americans. So just on that math, we could be looking at 600,000 or 700,000 dead in the United States. But it gets worse.

    Older people with existing health problems are much more vulnerable, on average. The mortality rate of coronavirus among people over age 80 may be 15 or 20 percent. It appears to have 7 or 8 percent mortality for people aged 70 to 79. Here is the terrible part: If you are a healthy younger person, you can catch the virus and, without developing serious symptoms yourself, you can pass it along to older people. In other words, as the virus spreads, it is going to be very easy to go out and catch it, give it to your grandmother and kill her, even though you will not die yourself. You can catch it by touching a door knob or an elevator button.

    Scientists measure the spread of an epidemic by a number called R0, or “R naught.” That number is calculated this way: for every person who develops the illness, how many other people do they give it to before they are cured (or dead) and no longer infectious? The R0 for coronavirus, in the absence of a control strategy, appears to be a number close to 3 – maybe a bit higher or lower, but in that ballpark. This is an extremely frightening number for such a deadly disease.

    Suppose you catch the virus. You will give it to 3 other people, and they will each give it to three others, and so forth. Here is how the math works, where you, the “index case,” are the first line:

    So, in just 15 steps of transmission, the virus has gone from just one index case to 14.3 million other people. Those 15 steps might take only a few weeks. The index person may be young and healthy, but many of those 14 million people will be old and sick, and they will likely die because they got a virus that started in one person’s throat.

    The United States is not at this point yet, with millions infected, as best we can tell. We don’t really know, because our government has failed us. We are many, many weeks behind other countries in rolling out widespread testing, so we don’t really have a clue how far the thing has spread. We do know that cases are starting to pop up all over the place, with many of the people having no known exposure to travelers from China, so that means this virus has escaped into our communities.

    We do not have approved treatments, yet. We do not have a vaccine. The only tool we really have now is to try to slow down the chain of transmission.

    This can be done. In other words, R0 is not fixed – it can be lowered by control measures. If we can get the number below 1, the epidemic will die out. This is the point of the quarantines and the contact-tracing that you are hearing so much about in the news. But the virus is exploding so fast that we will not have the labor available to trace contacts for much longer, so we have to shift strategies. This has already begun, but we are not doing it fast enough.

    It is now likely that the majority of Americans will get this virus. But slowing it down is still crucial. Why? Because the healthcare system has limited resources. We only have about a million hospital beds in America. We have well under a million ventilators. If millions of Americans get sick enough to need treatment, we will have a calamity on our hands. What will happen is a form of battlefield triage, where the doctors focus on trying to treat the young and allow the older people to die.

    This is not theoretical. It is already happening in Italy, where people over 65 are being left alone on hospital gurneys to suffocate to death from pneumonia. They basically drown in their own sputum. There is simply not enough medical capacity to take care of them. The United States appears to be about two weeks behind Italy on the epidemic growth curve.

    What do we need to do now? We need to cancel all large gatherings – all of them. You have probably seen that the N.B.A. has postponed the rest of its season. Other sporting events, concerts, plays and everything else involving large audiences in a small space – all of it needs to be canceled. Even if these events take place, do not go to them. No lectures, no plays, no movies, no cruises – nothing.

    Stay at home as much as possible.Stay out of restaurants. I would cancel any travel that is not absolutely essential. Work from home if you possibly can. You may have to go buy groceries and medicine, of course, but make the trips quick and purposeful. Wash your hands assiduously after you have been in public places, for a full 20 seconds, soaping up thoroughly and being sure to get between the fingers. Sunlight and alcohol will kill the virus.

    And please stop passing around statements on social media claiming that the situation is not serious or is being exaggerated. This is a national crisis, and conveying misinformation to your friends and family may put their lives in danger”

  62. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted March 27, 2020 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    “I didn’t support bush or the gulf wars either.
    Because I’m not a sheep.”

    Neither did I. I doubt my formerly democrat friend did either. Almost of Congress on both sides did though.

  63. Lynne
    Posted March 27, 2020 at 10:22 am | Permalink

    EOS, thank you. I am a little surprised to see you sharing something where someone is pointing out how much of this is Trump’s fault but it is indeed good information and I agree with it and have taken that approach. Nothing but essential travel and lots of precautions. Now shelter-in-place.

  64. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted March 27, 2020 at 11:28 am | Permalink

    Almost all of Congress supported the attack on “Sodom” Hussein.

  65. Jean Henry
    Posted March 27, 2020 at 11:50 am | Permalink

    Trump’s pettiness is depriving Michigan citizens of essential health care supplies:

    I wonder how HW’s Dem friends will view him when people start dying because he withheld assistance to MI.

  66. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted March 27, 2020 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

    Why doesn’t the state have a decent stockpile? Where does the money go that is supposed to get us prepared for something like this? What do hospitals do in a normal year when tens of thousands of people die of the flu? They don’t need more than a couple of ventilators then? What happens in a bad flu year and there are about 100,000 deaths?

  67. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted March 27, 2020 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

    “What I’ve gotten back is that vendors with whom we’ve procured contracts — They’re being told not to send stuff to Michigan,” Whitmer said live on air. “It’s really concerning, I reached out to the White House last night and asked for a phone call with the president, ironically at the time this stuff was going on.”

    Oh, it’s what she’s gotten back, huh? She should be required to substantiate that.

  68. Jean Henry
    Posted March 27, 2020 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

    “Oh you cutie pie”

  69. Jean Henry
    Posted March 27, 2020 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    “If they don’t treat me right, I don’t call.” Trump about Michigan and ‘that young woman.’ Our governor.

    Maybe you should check in on your Dem friends?

  70. Jean Henry
    Posted March 27, 2020 at 9:42 pm | Permalink

    People who get the flu don’t all die at once HW. 35k ppl get flu in an average year. We’re over 100k with Covid-19 already despite lax testing The hospitalization rate is 1 -3% v 10% for covid19. The lethality of the flu is about 30x less than covid19 from what I’m seeing.

    Obviously if ppl were dying due to a lack of protective gear or ventilators Due to flu in past years, We would have heard about it.

    Why are you trying to minimize this situation, HW.
    How is that going to help Trump. If I supported Trump I’d be trying to manage people’s expectations so they aren’t horrified by this thing as it grows. Your self-delusion is powerful.

  71. Frosted Flakes
    Posted March 27, 2020 at 11:04 pm | Permalink

    ^ Wacky stuff

  72. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted March 27, 2020 at 11:29 pm | Permalink

    “35k ppl get flu in an average year. ”

    That’s about how many die from flu every year in the USA, Jean. When are you going to wake up and realize you don’t know what the hell you are talking about?

  73. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted March 27, 2020 at 11:35 pm | Permalink

    So everything you say after that is deluded but you say I am deluded in the same breath. How do you not finally see how this actually works every single time. You are factually on the extreme left of the curve (you know what curve I am talking about) but you say that’s me even though I factually school you every day.

  74. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted March 27, 2020 at 11:39 pm | Permalink

    It’s a special class of people who get everything as wrong as possible every day. I’ve only run into a few of them in the whole world online over the years; dubious distinction.

  75. Posted March 28, 2020 at 1:43 am | Permalink

    Here’s a link to help Jean:


  76. Jean Henry
    Posted March 28, 2020 at 7:22 am | Permalink

    I read a chart that qualified flu incidence in thousands incorrectly. Apologies. Careless.
    The other numbers comparing hospitalization and deaths are accurate as they were quantified in percentages.

    My point still stands.

    I probably shouldn’t post here if I can only summon the enthusiasm to do it in a half assed way.

  77. iRobert
    Posted March 29, 2020 at 5:01 am | Permalink

    There was a Scottish guy on CNN just now who has just recovered from COVID-19. He gave quite an account of the experience.

    He endured the symptoms for 10 to 12 days and was in intensive care for several days. The last couple days he thought he was going to die.

    He had a lot of praise for the health care workers and how they helped keep him alive and from giving up hope that he would recover.

    He apparently posted a video on his social media page about it all. I’ll see if I can find it to share here.

  78. Posted March 29, 2020 at 10:00 am | Permalink

    FF, it might be Anesthesia ventilators that account for the discrepancy between the 60k and 160k numbers.

    From asshole.org

    “Anesthesia machines are equipped with ventilators that in many cases are capable of providing life-sustaining mechanical ventilation to patients with respiratory failure.”

  79. iRobert
    Posted March 29, 2020 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    hahaha, sorry, FF. That wasn’t from asshole.org

    It was from asahq.org


    I swear autocorrect changed that. Really, I swear.

  80. Frosted Flakes
    Posted March 29, 2020 at 11:32 am | Permalink


    I was under the impression anesthesia machines that were not part of the 160k number. From one of the articles I linked:

    “ The task force members noted that the addition of these older hospital ventilators, along with stockpiled ventilators from the CDC and anesthesia machines, “increases the absolute number of ventilators to possibly above 200,000 units.” “

    I don’t know. I am not trying to paint a picture that we do not need more machines. I was actually just wondering how are numbers stacked up to Italy. I would say Italy was insanely ill prepared. It gave me a bit of comfort.

  81. iRobert
    Posted March 29, 2020 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    So far, it looks like you are right. They do appear to have had far too few ventilators to even cope with a pretty mild epidemic. They also had the misfortune of little warning before the virus was already there and quickly spreading.

    I hope that’s true about the anesthesia machines bringing the numbers up above 200k units. That certainly would be good news.

    I’m also hopeful that the virus has seasonal characteristics and will be slowed as summer weather approaches.

  82. stupid hick
    Posted March 30, 2020 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

    “Aloha, for international news without the propaganda associated with anything Democrats or Republicans touch, I go to this web site,
    This site is about the only place I have found where you can get objective information about events in China and Russia.”

    In other words your most reliable news “source” is a blog where some random dude curates links to stories that validate his world view, and you rate them as objective because they validate your world view?

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