Saying, “The case was made,” Mitt Romney votes to convict Donald Trump on the charge of abuse of power

As we all knew would be the case, the Republican led Senate voted this afternoon to acquit Donald J. Trump on both charges he had been facing – abuse of power and obstruction of justice – bringing his rigged, witness-less farce of an impeachment trial to an official end. The bigger story of the day, however, is that one sole Republican Senator put country before party, and spoke the truth, giving us fleeting glimpse of conservative courage in the age of Trump. Mitt Romney, stating, “Corrupting an election to keep oneself in office is perhaps the most abusive and destructive violation of one’s oath of office that I can imagine,” voted with the Democrats on the charge of abuse of power, and, in doing so, put himself on the right side of history. Here’s video of what Romney said on the floor of the Senate.

I agree with what David Axelrod had to say after hearing Romney’s remarks. “Half a century ago, Mitt Romney’s dad George earned a reputation as a courageous apostate, taking on his own party over civil rights and extremism,” he said. “He would be proud of his son today.” I don’t know that it was the most heroic act of our lifetimes, but, in a world where Republicans exist solely to excuse the whims of our tyrannical leader, it really stood out. Of course, if Romney had wanted to make a difference during the proceedings, he could have spoken up earlier in the process, publicly challenging his Republican colleagues to do the same. He could have taken the floor of the Senate to demand evidence and witnesses. Still, though, it was hard to watch him, doing what he did today, and not feel as though he really meant it when he said that he took his oath before god to provide “impartial justice” seriously. So, yeah, I now apparently Respect Mitt Romney, at least when viewed in comparison with the likes of Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski. [Sorry Mitt.]

Here’s the transcript of what Romney had to say. I’ve bolded the parts that struck me the hardest.

The Constitution is at the foundation of our Republic’s success, and we each strive not to lose sight of our promise to defend it. The Constitution established the vehicle of impeachment that has occupied both houses of Congress for these many days. We have labored to faithfully execute our responsibilities to it. We have arrived at different judgments, but I hope we respect each other’s good faith.

The allegations made in the articles of impeachment are very serious. As a Senator-juror, I swore an oath, before God, to exercise “impartial justice.” I am a profoundly religious person. I take an oath before God as enormously consequential. I knew from the outset that being tasked with judging the President, the leader of my own party, would be the most difficult decision I have ever faced. I was not wrong.

The House Managers presented evidence supporting their case; the White House counsel disputed that case. In addition, the President’s team presented three defenses: first, that there can be no impeachment without a statutory crime; second, that the Bidens’ conduct justified the President’s actions; and third that the judgement of the President’s actions should be left to the voters. Let me first address each of those defenses.

The historic meaning of the words “high crimes and misdemeanors,” the writings of the Founders and my own reasoned judgement convince me that a president can indeed commit acts against the public trust that are so egregious that while they are not statutory crimes, they would demand removal from office. To maintain that the lack of a codified and comprehensive list of all the outrageous acts that a president might conceivably commit renders Congress powerless to remove a president defies reason.

The President’s counsel noted that Vice President Biden appeared to have a conflict of interest when he undertook an effort to remove the Ukrainian Prosecutor General. If he knew of the exorbitant compensation his son was receiving from a company actually under investigation, the Vice President should have recused himself. While ignoring a conflict of interest is not a crime, it is surely very wrong.

With regards to Hunter Biden, taking excessive advantage of his father’s name is unsavory but also not a crime. Given that in neither the case of the father nor the son was any evidence presented by the President’s counsel that a crime had been committed, the President’s insistence that they be investigated by the Ukrainians is hard to explain other than as a political pursuit. There is no question in my mind that were their names not Biden, the President would never have done what he did.

The defense argues that the Senate should leave the impeachment decision to the voters. While that logic is appealing to our democratic instincts, it is inconsistent with the Constitution’s requirement that the Senate, not the voters, try the president. Hamilton explained that the Founders’ decision to invest senators with this obligation rather than leave it to voters was intended to minimize—to the extent possible—the partisan sentiments of the public.

This verdict is ours to render. The people will judge us for how well and faithfully we fulfilled our duty. The grave question the Constitution tasks senators to answer is whether the President committed an act so extreme and egregious that it rises to the level of a “high crime and misdemeanor.” Yes, he did.

The President asked a foreign government to investigate his political rival.

The President withheld vital military funds from that government to press it to do so.

The President delayed funds for an American ally at war with Russian invaders.

The President’s purpose was personal and political.

Accordingly, the President is guilty of an appalling abuse of the public trust.

What he did was not “perfect”— No, it was a flagrant assault on our electoral rights, our national security interests, and our fundamental values. Corrupting an election to keep oneself in office is perhaps the most abusive and destructive violation of one’s oath of office that I can imagine.

In the last several weeks, I have received numerous calls and texts. Many demand that, in their words, “I stand with the team.” I can assure you that that thought has been very much on my mind. I support a great deal of what the President has done. I have voted with him 80% of the time. But my promise before God to apply impartial justice required that I put my personal feelings and biases aside. Were I to ignore the evidence that has been presented, and disregard what I believe my oath and the Constitution demands of me for the sake of a partisan end, it would, I fear, expose my character to history’s rebuke and the censure of my own conscience.

I am aware that there are people in my party and in my state who will strenuously disapprove of my decision, and in some quarters, I will be vehemently denounced. I am sure to hear abuse from the President and his supporters. Does anyone seriously believe I would consent to these consequences other than from an inescapable conviction that my oath before God demanded it of me?

I sought to hear testimony from John Bolton not only because I believed he could add context to the charges, but also because I hoped that what he said might raise reasonable doubt and thus remove from me the awful obligation to vote for impeachment.

Like each member of this deliberative body, I love our country. I believe that our Constitution was inspired by Providence. I am convinced that freedom itself is dependent on the strength and vitality of our national character. As it is with each senator, my vote is an act of conviction. We have come to different conclusions, fellow senators, but I trust we have all followed the dictates of our conscience.

I acknowledge that my verdict will not remove the President from office. The results of this Senate Court will in fact be appealed to a higher court: the judgement of the American people. Voters will make the final decision, just as the President’s lawyers have implored. My vote will likely be in the minority in the Senate. But irrespective of these things, with my vote, I will tell my children and their children that I did my duty to the best of my ability, believing that my country expected it of me. I will only be one name among many, no more or less, to future generations of Americans who look at the record of this trial. They will note merely that I was among the senators who determined that what the President did was wrong, grievously wrong.

We’re all footnotes at best in the annals of history. But in the most powerful nation on earth, the nation conceived in liberty and justice, that is distinction enough for any citizen.

So, yeah… To everyone who said that the President’s impeachment was “illegitimate” because it wasn’t bipartisan in nature, I guess you’d better get yourself a new talking point.

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95 Comments

  1. John Brown
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 6:20 am | Permalink

    Even though it’s too little too late, Mitt articulates reality while Agent Orange cultists race towards national insanity. And they do so with full confidence. Just like Mussolini’s enablers. Everyone on both sides should be ready for a similar outcome.

  2. iRobert
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 7:29 am | Permalink

    My mother is Austrian, and grew up during WWII. She has friends here who are also her age and grew up in Germany during WWII. Her closest friend remarked after Trump’s State of the Union speech that it reminded her of the way Hitler spoke.

    I’ve never compared Trump to Hitler, though I’ve heard many old German’s and Austrian’s do it. Like John Brown, I see a lot more similarity to Mussolini. He displayed similar ego issues and such.

    I would have been in favor of many of the policy shifts espoused by Mussolini and Hitler, but I’m certain I would have been too disgusted and disturbed by their obvious mental problems to support them. For some reason, many people don’t have that reaction to deranged characters. That doesn’t mean they’re bad people.

  3. Wobblie
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 7:58 am | Permalink

    Aloha. Good news for all you who support the Empire. Our Trident submarine launched ICBM’s have begun being armed with the brand spanking new W76-2 low yield nuclear weapons. USS Tennessee set sail armed for deterrence mission against Russia in the midst of the kabuki impeachment.
    Thank you Nancy and the Democratic controlled House on giving our glorious leader the tools to keep us safe.

  4. Anonymous
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 8:10 am | Permalink

    If you think this President is going to launch nukes against Putin, you haven’t been paying attention.

  5. iRobert
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 8:18 am | Permalink

    It wouldn’t be Trump’s decision, Anonymous.

  6. iRobert
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    Romney essentially suggested his Republican colleagues in the Senate are all Godless. String him up!

  7. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 8:47 am | Permalink

    “Her closest friend remarked after Trump’s State of the Union speech that it reminded her of the way Hitler spoke.”

    Is she mentally ill? I’m thinking of the speech and trying to make it sound like Hitler in my mind and I can’t do it. With the honorees it connected to the heart more than others. It wasn’t belligerent or hawkish or anything. I’d like to hear her rationale for exactly what reminded her and why. Just the ‘tone’, nothing specific? I don’t hear that either? Hitler???

  8. iRobert
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 9:09 am | Permalink

    Well, she’s old and really ornery. I don’t know what she meant, but I’ve heard similar comparisons from a dozen or more other Germans who grew up in the 30’s.

    Like I said, I think Trump’s mental problems look more similar to Mussolini’s.

    HW, you should consider the possibility that your white hats’ plan is to use the most absurd, obnoxious character for the negative impact he has on any thoughtful observer. I agree with you that there is a plan here that the dopy folks on the left aren’t sensing, but you shouldn’t assume that plan is being shared with the public whatsoever.

  9. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    Tell me one absurd, obnoxious thing from the speech. If you can think of more than one then list them.

  10. Jean Henry
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    20 Common Themes, Rhetorical Tactics and Dangerous Policies

    Here are 20 serious points of comparison between the early Hitler and Trump.

    1. Neither was elected by a majority. Trump lost the popular vote by 2.9 million votes, receiving votes by 25.3 percent of all eligible American voters. “That’s just a little less than the percentage of the German electorate that turned to the Nazi Party in 1932–33,” Neuborne writes. “Unlike the low turnouts in the United States, turnout in Weimar Germany averaged just over 80 percent of eligible voters.” He continues, “Once installed as a minority chancellor in January 1933, Hitler set about demonizing his political opponents, and no one—not the vaunted, intellectually brilliant German judiciary; not the respected, well-trained German police; not the revered, aristocratic German military; not the widely admired, efficient German government bureaucracy; not the wealthy, immensely powerful leaders of German industry; and not the powerful center-right political leaders of the Reichstag—mounted a serious effort to stop him.”

    2. Both found direct communication channels to their base. By 1936’s Olympics, Nazi narratives dominated German cultural and political life. “How on earth did Hitler pull it off? What satanic magic did Trump find in Hitler’s speeches?” Neuborne asks. He addresses Hitler’s extreme rhetoric soon enough, but notes that Hitler found a direct communication pathway—the Nazi Party gave out radios with only one channel, tuned to Hitler’s voice, bypassing Germany’s news media. Trump has an online equivalent.

    “Donald Trump’s tweets, often delivered between midnight and dawn, are the twenty-first century’s technological embodiment of Hitler’s free plastic radios,” Neuborne says. “Trump’s Twitter account, like Hitler’s radios, enables a charismatic leader to establish and maintain a personal, unfiltered line of communication with an adoring political base of about 30–40 percent of the population, many (but not all) of whom are only too willing, even anxious, to swallow Trump’s witches’ brew of falsehoods, half-truths, personal invective, threats, xenophobia, national security scares, religious bigotry, white racism, exploitation of economic insecurity, and a never ending-search for scapegoats.”

    3. Both blame others and divide on racial lines. As Neuborne notes, “Hitler used his single-frequency radios to wax hysterical to his adoring base about his pathological racial and religious fantasies glorifying Aryans and demonizing Jews, blaming Jews (among other racial and religious scapegoats) for German society’s ills.” That is comparable to “Trump’s tweets and public statements, whether dealing with black-led demonstrations against police violence, white-led racist mob violence, threats posed by undocumented aliens, immigration policy generally, protests by black and white professional athletes, college admission policies, hate speech, even response to hurricane damage in Puerto Rico,” he says. Again and again, Trump uses “racially tinged messages calculated to divide whites from people of color.”

    4. Both relentlessly demonize opponents. “Hitler’s radio harangues demonized his domestic political opponents, calling them parasites, criminals, cockroaches, and various categories of leftist scum,” Neuborne notes. “Trump’s tweets and speeches similarly demonize his political opponents. Trump talks about the country being ‘infested’ with dangerous aliens of color. He fantasizes about jailing Hillary Clinton, calls Mexicans rapists, refers to ‘shithole countries,’ degrades anyone who disagrees with him, and dreams of uprooting thousands of allegedly disloyal bureaucrats in the State Department, the Environmental Protection Agency, the FBI, and the CIA, who he calls ‘the deep state’ and who, he claims, are sabotaging American greatness.”

    5. They unceasingly attack objective truth. “Both Trump and Hitler maintained a relentless assault on the very idea of objective truth,” he continues. “Each began the assault by seeking to delegitimize the mainstream press. Hitler quickly coined the epithet Lügenpresse (literally ‘lying press’) to denigrate the mainstream press. Trump uses a paraphrase of Hitler’s lying press epithet—‘fake news’—cribbed, no doubt, from one of Hitler’s speeches. For Trump, the mainstream press is a ‘lying press’ that publishes ‘fake news.’” Hitler attacked his opponents as spreading false information to undermine his positions, Neuborne says, just as Trump has attacked “elites” for disseminating false news, “especially his possible links to the Kremlin.”

    6. They relentlessly attack mainstream media. Trump’s assaults on the media echo Hitler’s, Neuborne says, noting that he “repeatedly attacks the ‘failing New York Times,’ leads crowds in chanting ‘CNN sucks,’ [and] is personally hostile to most reporters.” He cites the White House’s refusal to fly the flag at half-mast after the murder of five journalists in Annapolis in June 2018, Trump’s efforts to punish CNN by blocking a merger of its corporate parent, and trying to revoke federal Postal Service contracts held by Amazon, which was founded by Jeff Bezos, who also owns the Washington Post.

    7. Their attacks on truth include science. Neuborne notes, “Both Trump and Hitler intensified their assault on objective truth by deriding scientific experts, especially academics who question Hitler’s views on race or Trump’s views on climate change, immigration, or economics. For both Trump and Hitler, the goal is (and was) to eviscerate the very idea of objective truth, turning everything into grist for a populist jury subject to manipulation by a master puppeteer. In both Trump’s and Hitler’s worlds, public opinion ultimately defines what is true and what is false.”

    8. Their lies blur reality—and supporters spread them. “Trump’s pathological penchant for repeatedly lying about his behavior can only succeed in a world where his supporters feel free to embrace Trump’s ‘alternative facts’ and treat his hyperbolic exaggerations as the gospel truth,” Neuborne says. “Once Hitler had delegitimized the mainstream media by a series of systematic attacks on its integrity, he constructed a fawning alternative mass media designed to reinforce his direct radio messages and enhance his personal power. Trump is following the same path, simultaneously launching bitter attacks on the mainstream press while embracing the so-called alt-right media, co-opting both Sinclair Broadcasting and the Rupert Murdoch–owned Fox Broadcasting Company as, essentially, a Trump Broadcasting Network.”

    9. Both orchestrated mass rallies to show status. “Once Hitler had cemented his personal communications link with his base via free radios and a fawning media and had badly eroded the idea of objective truth, he reinforced his emotional bond with his base by holding a series of carefully orchestrated mass meetings dedicated to cementing his status as a charismatic leader, or Führer,” Neuborne writes. “The powerful personal bonds nurtured by Trump’s tweets and Fox’s fawning are also systematically reinforced by periodic, carefully orchestrated mass rallies (even going so far as to co-opt a Boy Scout Jamboree in 2017), reinforcing Trump’s insatiable narcissism and his status as a charismatic leader.”

    10. They embrace extreme nationalism. “Hitler’s strident appeals to the base invoked an extreme version of German nationalism, extolling a brilliant German past and promising to restore Germany to its rightful place as a preeminent nation,” Neuborne says. “Trump echoes Hitler’s jingoistic appeal to ultranationalist fervor, extolling American exceptionalism right down to the slogan ‘Make America Great Again,’ a paraphrase of Hitler’s promise to restore German greatness.”

    11. Both made closing borders a centerpiece. “Hitler all but closed Germany’s borders, freezing non-Aryan migration into the country and rendering it impossible for Germans to escape without official permission. Like Hitler, Trump has also made closed borders a centerpiece of his administration,” Neuborne continues. “Hitler barred Jews. Trump bars Muslims and seekers of sanctuary from Central America. When the lower courts blocked Trump’s Muslim travel ban, he unilaterally issued executive orders replacing it with a thinly disguised substitute that ultimately narrowly won Supreme Court approval under a theory of extreme deference to the president.”

    12. They embraced mass detention and deportations. “Hitler promised to make Germany free from Jews and Slavs. Trump promises to slow, stop, and even reverse the flow of non-white immigrants, substituting Muslims, Africans, Mexicans, and Central Americans of color for Jews and Slavs as scapegoats for the nation’s ills. Trump’s efforts to cast dragnets to arrest undocumented aliens where they work, live, and worship, followed by mass deportation… echo Hitler’s promise to defend Germany’s racial identity,” he writes, also noting that Trump has “stooped to tearing children from their parents [as Nazis in World War II would do] to punish desperate efforts by migrants to find a better life.”

    13. Both used borders to protect selected industries. “Like Hitler, Trump seeks to use national borders to protect his favored national interests, threatening to ignite protectionist trade wars with Europe, China, and Japan similar to the trade wars that, in earlier incarnations, helped to ignite World War I and World War II,” Neuborne writes. “Like Hitler, Trump aggressively uses our nation’s political and economic power to favor selected American corporate interests at the expense of foreign competitors and the environment, even at the price of international conflict, massive inefficiency, and irreversible pollution [climate change].”

    14. They cemented their rule by enriching elites. “Hitler’s version of fascism shifted immense power—both political and financial—to the leaders of German industry. In fact, Hitler governed Germany largely through corporate executives,” he continues. “Trump has also presided over a massive empowerment—and enrichment—of corporate America. Under Trump, large corporations exercise immense political power while receiving huge economic windfalls and freedom from regulations designed to protect consumers and the labor force.

    “Hitler despised the German labor movement, eventually destroying it and imprisoning its leaders. Trump also detests strong unions, seeking to undermine any effort to interfere with the prerogatives of management.”

    15. Both rejected international norms. “Hitler’s foreign policy rejected international cooperation in favor of military and economic coercion, culminating in the annexation of the Sudetenland, the phony Hitler-Stalin nonaggression pact, the invasion of Czechoslovakia, and the horrors of global war,” Neuborne notes. “Like Hitler, Trump is deeply hostile to multinational cooperation, withdrawing from the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the Paris Agreement on climate change, and the nuclear agreement with Iran, threatening to withdraw from the North American Free Trade Agreement, abandoning our Kurdish allies in Syria, and even going so far as to question the value of NATO, our post-World War II military alliance with European democracies against Soviet expansionism.”

    16. They attack domestic democratic processes. “Hitler attacked the legitimacy of democracy itself, purging the voting rolls, challenging the integrity of the electoral process, and questioning the ability of democratic government to solve Germany’s problems,” Neuborne notes. “Trump has also attacked the democratic process, declining to agree to be bound by the outcome of the 2016 elections when he thought he might lose, supporting the massive purge of the voting rolls allegedly designed to avoid (nonexistent) fraud, championing measures that make it harder to vote, tolerating—if not fomenting—massive Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election, encouraging mob violence at rallies, darkly hinting at violence if Democrats hold power, and constantly casting doubt on the legitimacy of elections unless he wins.”

    17. Both attack the judiciary and rule of law. “Hitler politicized and eventually destroyed the vaunted German justice system. Trump also seeks to turn the American justice system into his personal playground,” Neuborne writes. “Like Hitler, Trump threatens the judicially enforced rule of law, bitterly attacking American judges who rule against him, slyly praising Andrew Jackson for defying the Supreme Court, and abusing the pardon power by pardoning an Arizona sheriff found guilty of criminal contempt of court for disobeying federal court orders to cease violating the Constitution.”

    18. Both glorify the military and demand loyalty oaths. “Like Hitler, Trump glorifies the military, staffing his administration with layers of retired generals (who eventually were fired or resigned), relaxing control over the use of lethal force by the military and the police, and demanding a massive increase in military spending,” Neuborne writes. Just as Hitler “imposed an oath of personal loyalty on all German judges” and demanded courts defer to him, “Trump’s already gotten enough deference from five Republican [Supreme Court] justices to uphold a largely Muslim travel ban that is the epitome of racial and religious bigotry.”

    Trump has also demanded loyalty oaths. “He fired James Comey, a Republican appointed in 2013 as FBI director by President Obama, for refusing to swear an oath of personal loyalty to the president; excoriated and then sacked Jeff Sessions, his handpicked attorney general, for failing to suppress the criminal investigation into… Trump’s possible collusion with Russia in influencing the 2016 elections; repeatedly threatened to dismiss Robert Mueller, the special counsel carrying out the investigation; and called again and again for the jailing of Hillary Clinton, his 2016 opponent, leading crowds in chants of ‘lock her up.’” A new chant, “send her back,” has since emerged at Trump rallies directed at non-white Democratic congresswomen.

    19. They proclaim unchecked power. “Like Hitler, Trump has intensified a disturbing trend that predated his administration of governing unilaterally, largely through executive orders or proclamations,” Neuborne says, citing the Muslim travel ban, trade tariffs, unraveling of health and environmental safety nets, ban on transgender military service, and efforts to end President Obama’s protection for Dreamers. “Like Hitler, Trump claims the power to overrule Congress and govern all by himself. In 1933, Hitler used the pretext of the Reichstag fire to declare a national emergency and seize the power to govern unilaterally. The German judiciary did nothing to stop him. German democracy never recovered.”

    “When Congress refused to give Trump funds for his border wall even after he threw a tantrum and shut down the government, Trump, like Hitler, declared a phony national emergency and claimed the power to ignore Congress,” Neuborne continues. “Don’t count on the Supreme Court to stop him. Five justices gave the game away on the President’s unilateral travel ban. They just might do the same thing on the border wall.” It did in late July, ruling that Trump could divert congressionally appropriated funds from the Pentagon budget—undermining constitutional separation of powers.

    20. Both relegate women to subordinate roles. “Finally,” writes Neuborne, “Hitler propounded a misogynistic, stereotypical view of women, valuing them exclusively as wives and mothers while excluding them from full participation in German political and economic life. Trump may be the most openly misogynist figure ever to hold high public office in the United States, crassly treating women as sexual objects, using nondisclosure agreements and violating campaign finance laws to shield his sexual misbehavior from public knowledge, attacking women who come forward to accuse men of abusive behavior, undermining reproductive freedom, and opposing efforts by women to achieve economic equality.”

    https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/08/09/leading-civil-rights-lawyer-shows-20-ways-trump-copying-hitlers-early-rhetoric-and

  11. Jean Henry
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    “genocide is almost by definition beyond comparison with “normal” politics and everyday thuggish behavior, and to compare Trump’s feckless racism and compulsive lying was inevitably to trivialize Hitler’s crime and the victims of genocide.
    But after the election, things changed. Now Trump and his minions are in the driver’s seat, attempting to pose as respectable participants in American politics, when their views come out of a playbook written in German.”

    https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/normalization-lesson-munich-post/

  12. Jean Henry
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 9:40 am | Permalink

    This one is particularly apropos of this forum:
    “In an ever-changing, incomprehensible world the masses had reached the point where they would, at the same time, believe everything and nothing, think that everything was possible and that nothing was true. … Mass propaganda discovered that its audience was ready at all times to believe the worst, no matter how absurd, and did not particularly object to being deceived because it held every statement to be a lie anyhow. The totalitarian mass leaders based their propaganda on the correct psychological assumption that, under such conditions, one could make people believe the most fantastic statements one day, and trust that if the next day they were given irrefutable proof of their falsehood, they would take refuge in cynicism; instead of deserting the leaders who had lied to them, they would protest that they had known all along that the statement was a lie and would admire the leaders for their superior tactical cleverness.”
    ― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism

  13. Jean Henry
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 9:42 am | Permalink

    oh oh!
    “The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (i.e., the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (i.e., the standards of thought) no longer exist.”
    –Hannah Arendt

  14. iRobert
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    Hitler was an intelligent, articulate and creative person. He was at the opposite end of the spectrum in those respects. Mussolini, on the other hand, was a pretty dumb, thuggish stooge, propped up entirely by other more intelligent actors.

    HW, do you think Romney should be kicked out of the GOP. I certainly hope he is.

    Do you think publicly calling Romney a pussy is wise? Or is it dumb and absurd?

  15. iRobert
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 9:47 am | Permalink

    Jean, those Hannah Arendt excerpts are excellent. Thank you.

  16. iRobert
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 9:57 am | Permalink

    HW, I pay attention to you because you are intelligent and have some rare instincts. Your critique of the left is often right-on, in my opinion. You also seem to grasp there is always a lot more going on than the simple publically-digestible cover stories in national and global politics. The vast majority of people can’t grasp that for some reason.

    You must be able to see as well as I do that there are clearly two distinct layers to the Trump phenomenon. The highly savvy and strategic moments which are the clues betraying the existence of your white hats, and then the absolute incompetence and idiocy of Trump himself and his sycophant worshipers, ass-kissers and enablers. One is nothing but a front and tool of the other.

  17. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 10:15 am | Permalink

    I’m glad you are paying attention. That gives you an advantage over the vast majority who are not. You can’t come up with one thing from Trump’s speech that fits your characterization though. I would think if it was true it would be easy to pick something from the SOTU to illustrate it.

  18. iRobert
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 10:25 am | Permalink

    Well, Trump mentioned US energy independence as though it just now happened. But we became energy independent during Obama’s administration. We’re you aware of that? Most Trump supporters aren’t. The reason they aren’t is because Trump pretends everything that’s going well started with him somehow. That’s ridiculous.

  19. Jean Henry
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    HW– The entire speech fit that characterization. His speech at noon today is already being billed as a ‘victory speech’ when in fact he suffered a great humiliation that stopped short of being deemed a removable offense by a GOP majority. Flipping the script on humiliation and calling it a victory, demanding political revenge on his detractors, calling their positions lies–That’s very Hitler-like.

    It should worry you that you have become nose blind to the stench of totalitarianism.

  20. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 10:43 am | Permalink

    Imports are down and exports are up now compared to Obama. If Obama is responsible for the Trump economy then Bush is responsible for letting Obama start with training wheels trying to get the economy back to normal after the crash. A lot of that “growth” was from rock bottom. It should have been a lot faster of a recovery from that low point.

    It’s the corollary to diminishing returns. In strength training when you first start you get “newbie gains” where you keep being able to increase the weight for months or years before hitting a plateau. Then increasing the weight gets harder. Trump started at Obama’s high point but is pulling away with INCREASING gains as the tax revenue by year chart shows.

  21. Anonymous
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 10:43 am | Permalink

    EOS, you claim to be a religious man, and a man who respects the constitution. What did you make of Romeny’s speech?

  22. Anonymous
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    The same question goes to other Trump supporters who read this site. I am curious to know what you make of Romney’s speech.

  23. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 10:46 am | Permalink

    More rhetoric from Jean that means nothing. You can see him as humiliated. Why should anyone else care about that though? There is seriously something wrong with you that makes you think your opinion is actually a true definition.

  24. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    Did not listen. Mittens sucks. His CIA “advisor” (handler) was on the Burisma board! The hits keep rolling.

    https://nationalfile.com/ukraine-corruption-obama-biden-soros-schiff-bolton-pelosi-kerry-romney-clinton/

    MITT ROMNEY

    Utah Republican senator Mitt Romney’s foreign policy adviser Joseph Cofer Black served on the board of Burisma Holdings alongside Hunter Biden.

    The Huffington Post reported in 2017:

    “Former Director of CIA’s Counterterrorist Center joined Burisma’s board, and he will help to expand the company’s global presence.

    Burisma Group, an independent oil and gas company with operations in Ukraine, announced that Joseph Cofer Black will join the company’s board of directors. Joseph Cofer Black’s past experience includes: Director of CIA’s Counterterrorist Center between 1999 and 2002, and Ambassador at Large for Counter-Terrorism between 2002 and 2004. With such a strong background, Mr. Black will be leading the company’s security and strategic development efforts…

  25. Anonymous
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    “Did not listen.”

    No, of course you didn’t.

    Thank you for being honest, though.

  26. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    I heard soundbites. Don’t know how long he went on. What did he say that you liked?

  27. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 11:07 am | Permalink

    Of course you don’t care he is linked to the CIA and Burisma through his advisor. The mere fact that a CIA agent sat on the same board as Hunter ought to be alarming but you want to pretend it doesn’t exist as usual. The scary thing doesn’t actually go away when you shut your eyes. Thought you might like to know.

  28. iRobert
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 11:23 am | Permalink

    I’m not a fan of Romney, and I’m not comfortable with CIA agents being involved in domestic politics. But I think it’s ridiculous to suggest he should be kicked out of the Republican Party and even more ridiculous to call him a pussy.

  29. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 11:34 am | Permalink

    That’s a solid meme put up by Don Jr. “MOM JEANS: Because you’re a pussy.” He looks like a dork in those mom jeans. It’s true. Pussy, whatever. The point is he is weak. He’s in bed with corrupt dems. It doesn’t matter if he goes against his state’s wishes. He only came back to play this bit part against Trump. Being a Senator has got to be lackluster after winning the presidential nomination. He can walk away and take his payoff and be happy to be done with it. Let’s hope for Mitten’s sake he was a choirboy not a corrupt US leader.

  30. iRobert
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 11:38 am | Permalink

    HW: “Imports are down and exports are up now compared to Obama.”

    Agreed

    The economy under Obama was improving slowly – many felt too slowly. There was something of a foundation to build upon though when Trump came in. There was even a little economic boom right after Trump was elected, even before he took office, as industries anticipated the deregulation he was sure to bring. He did, of course, and in spades.

  31. iRobert
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    I wonder if Romney just voted yes on article one just to get Trump to respond so the other Republicans can see Trump’s disgusting response on display.

    Trump and his son appear as impotent blowhards.

  32. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    It’s the exact same as the dem mantra: the President pressured a foreign country to investigate his political rival. Biden is not a rival. He’s a selected front-runner just like Clinton. He has completely fallen apart. Incredible gaffes occur daily on the Biden campaign.

    The entire argument depends on the assumption stated as fact that it is a “baseless conspiracy theory” that there was corruption involving Hunter in Ukraine. How do they think they know that without a proper investigation? If Ukraine investigates what is the harm? Joe used a billion dollars to force them to fire the prosecutor so he is necessarily tied up in it.

    Who says it is interference? It would be interference to remove a President who is trying to find the truth. I have seen no evidence he wanted Ukraine to “manufacture” anything. Your people are the ones who have a gigantic problem with colluding with foreign governments to interfere with elections.

  33. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 12:04 pm | Permalink

    *Mittens’* speech is exactly the same as the dem mantra…

  34. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

    “impotent blowhards”

    Ironic considering Schiff and Schumer and the gang put everything they had into making it sound like the President did something wrong and got stuffed. Trump comes out on top. Staaaarting to see a pattern?

  35. Sad
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

    I agree with HW.

    Biden is a liability. He needs to go.

    The Democratic establishment is tired and old. We need some fresh blood.

    We need Mayor Pete.

  36. Posted February 6, 2020 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

    https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/voters-long-for-candidate-who-only-wanted-to-screw-some

  37. iRobert
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

    Little Mitty Romney and his magic underwear should be kicked out of the GOP. I don’t disagree.

    He gets a whole planet to himself when he kicks it, doesn’t he? Talk about buying the farm.

  38. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    Trump victory lap speech. The blockade is finished. Dems want to try impeachment again? Need more time to blackmail’n’bribe that many repubs. It would only look worse for them to execute another hoax impeachment and get rebuked.

  39. Frosted Flakes
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    Schiff said Bolton is unwilling to (right now) sign an affidavit that attests to the stuff that is supposedly in his book. Swetnick?

    But Mark knows that Bolton has “conclusive evidence” of Trumps “guilt”. Amazingly stupid statement.

  40. Wobblie
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 2:29 pm | Permalink

    Aloha JH thank you for your hard work. When you have time check out Rudolf Rocker’s, NATIONALISM AND CULTURE. There are reasons why all the pillars of German society succumbed to the Nazi’s. All the tools Hitler needed to become Dictator were created before he was made Chancellor. He just used the tools the state made available.
    The USS Tennessee’s “low yield” nuclear weapons are not for Russia. It is for our ongoing “maximum pressure”/war with Iran.

  41. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

    New vid by Joe M., whose vids have been linked by Q in the past

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDrtQlN6CkY

  42. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

    Nice letter from Grassley to the Secret Service asking about Hunter and Joe’s Ukraine and China activities.

    https://www.grassley.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/2020-02-05%20CEG%20RHJ%20to%20Secret%20Service%20%28Biden%20Travel%29.pdf

  43. Satan
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

    As you can imagine, I am very glad about how the president conducted himself at the national prayer breakfast. To all of you out there that helped make that possible, thank you.

  44. Jean Henry
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 10:18 pm | Permalink

    Pussies are awesome, strong, resilient, responsive and very pleasurable. They are life giving.

    Maybe it’s been so long since you’ve seen one you just forgot, HW (and Don Jr)

  45. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 11:15 pm | Permalink

    Yeah, I get no pussy in this life. Haven’t even had any since last night.

    Your sex life sounds extremely active though with all those disgusting assholes that please you more than anything like you said.

  46. Jean Henry
    Posted February 6, 2020 at 11:52 pm | Permalink

    HUH?

  47. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 7, 2020 at 12:16 am | Permalink

    You said nothing gives you more pleasure than disgusting assholes so I am taking you at your word. It wasn’t long ago. Are you senile? You forget everything.

  48. Jean Henry
    Posted February 7, 2020 at 12:35 am | Permalink

    Hey HW remember when you said anti-Vader’s weren’t anti anything and cause no harm? And that the very use of the term anti-vaxxer was bizarre (even though it’s in wide use as you know)

    https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/facebook-anti-vaxxers-pushed-mom-not-give-her-son-tamiflu-n1131936

  49. Jean Henry
    Posted February 7, 2020 at 12:37 am | Permalink

    Oh yeah, ‘disgusting assholes’ that was a good one. Seems like it’s important to bring it up. Wouldn’t want to forget that.

  50. Anonymous
    Posted February 7, 2020 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    A lot will depends on how the coronavirus epidemic works out. If it’s a SARS or MERS blip, then it will be good for Trump because no medium term economic disruption but stokes xenophobia. If it is a true pandemic and disruptive, then we will have a recession and demonstration of an incapable response and the selection of an isolationist challenger like Sanders gives a good chance to scapegoat the incumbent. Mayor Pete is a no go either way as he was carrying water for McKinsey, who’s mission is to extract as much value from workers for high level executives as possible.

  51. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 7, 2020 at 8:29 am | Permalink

    Sorry, didn’t mean to interrupt your propaganda about me with an actual quote from you…

    …So he died for sure because he didn’t get a vaccine? How do you think you could know? You are so low in intelligence.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tamiflu-side-effects-in-kids-families-worried/

    The FDA investigated the potential side effects of Tamiflu in 2005 after reports of dozens of teenagers in Japan who had experienced hallucinations, delirium, confusion, and other abnormal behaviors after they took the medication. Twelve deaths were reported.

  52. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 7, 2020 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    ” And that the very use of the term anti-vaxxer was bizarre (even though it’s in wide use as you know)”

    I said it is inaccurate, not bizarre. The frequency of use of the term is of no concern to me.

    What I said applies to this case so it’s ironic you would choose it. Vaxxers pressured the mom. She didn’t have her child vaccinated. The child became ill and died which may or may not have been helped by the vaccine. She was not pressuring people NOT to take it. They were pressuring HER! You see? She was a…Non-Vaxxer like I said. The name of the group is even “Stop Mandatory Vaccination” driving my point home further.

  53. Sad
    Posted February 7, 2020 at 8:48 am | Permalink

    Mayor Pete’s time at McKinsey is an asset not a negative. If anyone is going to be able to put a stop to rampant corporate abuses of the tax code and claw back money for workers it is someone who is familiar with the system. The constant skepticism of mayor Pete’s motives is making strange bedfellows. Anonymous and HW are in lock step, one perpetuating the idea that he’s a CIA plant and the other depicting him as a corporate stooge.

    He could just be an earnest young man who wants to be of service to the American people.

    Did you ever think about that?

  54. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 7, 2020 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    Perpetuating? Alls I’m doing is axing the question.

  55. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 7, 2020 at 9:00 am | Permalink

    Jean, when there is someone who consistently beats you with information that you bring up maybe it is time to rethink your strategy.

  56. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 7, 2020 at 9:26 am | Permalink

    “Oh yeah, ‘disgusting assholes’ that was a good one. Seems like it’s important to bring it up. Wouldn’t want to forget that.”

    It’s important to you to try to degrade my image by saying I’m an “incel”. You have talked a lot about your thoughts on my sex life and it’s all mindless and demeaning. Nothing wrong with poking fun at you based on a little freudian slip.

  57. Anonymous
    Posted February 7, 2020 at 10:26 am | Permalink

    Sad,

    I would vote for the democratic candidate and not the republican candidate regardless of whether it’s Pete vs Pence or Sanders vs Trump or Biden vs Romney. Personalities are not as important to me as party platforms and philosophies, so don’t worry about me. It’s a motivational turnout battle rather than a convince the undecided. Everyone has already decided. I’ve never missed an election. You are going with it takes a thief to catch a thief. Great. Then I logically should go with Bloomberg, a much better mayor and thief than Pete.

  58. Sad
    Posted February 7, 2020 at 11:47 am | Permalink

    To compare Bloomberg’s business experience with Buttigiegs time at McKinsey is an interesting contrast. My hope is that Butyigieg just got a taste of the working of corporate America. God knows that if he were all in he wouldn’t have left McKinsey to go be the mayor of South Bend.

    Either way the Sanders Buttigieg contest will be great. I can’t imagine anything better for the Democratic Party to thresh out it’s positioning going forward.

  59. Anonymous
    Posted February 7, 2020 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

    The election will be decided by voter preference in battleground states, not by overall voter preference. I think we’ve already found out that at this current point in US history, the battleground states are uncomfortable with minority candidates and women candidates. Are we really going to go for the LGBT to test the trifecta? Has anybody here so stuck in national affairs that they haven’t looked a bit down Michigan Avenue at Saline?

  60. Wobblie
    Posted February 7, 2020 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

    Aloha anonymous, folks going in 110% on the nothing burger of Russiagate and following it up with the kabuki impeachment should have demonstrated by now that Corp Dems have disassociated with reality as badly as birthers and Trumpers.
    There are two parties (your either with us or against us) but almost everyone is enthralled by Empire and the pseudo personality dramas the corporate media gives us in place of honest policy discussions.
    Between the kabuki impeachment and the shit show Iowa caucuses the Dems have created a huge hill to climb. Once they drown Bernie in negativity, what will they use to motivate folks to turn out?
    Identity Politics is the only card they know how to play. Perhaps a principled person of color who has stood apart from all this BS would stand a chance ( Tulsi comes to mind).
    Saw today that Trump has the highest approval ratings of his term.

  61. Sad
    Posted February 7, 2020 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

    There are no easy answers.

    Except for Wobblie who has it all figured out.

    In Saline people reacted with horror. They didn’t embrace the racist. At least that was my impression.

  62. Wobblie
    Posted February 7, 2020 at 2:45 pm | Permalink

    Aloha Sad, they only have so many tricks in there magic bag of deceptions. Almost everyone stood and gave Trump a standing ovation for the Empire’s intervention in Venezuela for example. You should spend some time studying Mayor Pete’ s dad’s life work.
    Trump’s super bowl on criminal justice reform is telegraphing that he will run to the left of most Dems on that issue. Most Dems have already given him trade and the economy.

  63. Sad
    Posted February 7, 2020 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    Wow. The Bernie supporters are going all out on Mayor Pete today online.

    Now I know what the Hillary supporters were talking about.

    They are out for blood.

    Anyone who disagrees is an enemy of the people.

    I like Bernie.

  64. Jean Henry
    Posted February 7, 2020 at 9:56 pm | Permalink

    Sad is correct that the uniform response to one bigoted asshole was condemnation. That crowd stood up for Adrian. The dude’s son called his dad a racist and supported Adrian. Please go to Chela’s and support Adrian yourself. I have heard the shop in Dexter needs patrons so if you are headed out that way please stop by.

    The food is excellent and well priced. Adrian has done amazing things in the community and raised three accomplished grow children. He went to that meeting to give testimony to their experience of racism in the schools years ago. He wanted to represent that experience for others who may be less willing, whose status is less secure or who fear reprisals for their kids.

    Every time I hear an immigrant or refugee say how much they love this country even though they have experienced bigotry and fear here, I realize what spoiled brats most Americans are. We can not see that it can be a great country at the same time it’s a very very flawed country. We don’t appreciate what we have enough. If we did maybe we would take better care of others and try harder to extend the opportunity to more people.

  65. Jean Henry
    Posted February 7, 2020 at 9:59 pm | Permalink

    HW– there is no mandatory vaccination

  66. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 8, 2020 at 12:18 am | Permalink

    Wrong as always. Can’t go to school if you don’t get one.

    https://www.vox.com/2018/8/21/17588106/vaccine-law-requirements-children-exemptions

    Adults aren’t required to get vaccinated — but all states require children to get vaccinated to attend school, although they grant different levels of exemptions.

    Nineteen states allow medical, religious, and philosophical exemptions. Twenty-eight states and the District of Columbia allow medical and religious exemptions. California, West Virginia, and Mississippi only allow medical exemptions.

    There’s no clear connection among the states that allow philosophical exemptions. Oregon and Texas, often on opposite ends of the political spectrum, both have fairly permissive policies.

  67. Jean Henry
    Posted February 8, 2020 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    “…to attend school”
    They can still home school.
    It’s not mandatory.
    It’s extremely hard to force treatment on anyone legally. They most pose a threat to themselves and others. I believe people who refuse vaccines do pose a threat to others. Some places have mandated certain vaccinations during actual outbreaks, like my daughter’s neighborhood in Brooklyn recently. But that was just a few districts in the borough during an actual outbreak. The anti-vaxxers billed it as the state of NY mandating vaccines in order to stoke fear. They believe their liberty is at threat when in fact the government is beding over backward to allow them theirs while maintaining the public safety.
    Comparisons to gun rights paranoia are obvious.

  68. Jean Henry
    Posted February 8, 2020 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    PS–Oregon only recently became a Dem dominated state. It has deep reserves of religious conservativism and libertarianism still. There are many things super religious people and super lefty people have in common (I have lived in places dominated by both) a stand aside from majority culture expressed in selective education, dress, ways of eating and refusing vaccinations, etc etc. Lots of conspiracy theorists and survivalists on all sides in Oregon too, much like this forum. Because, reason and logic.

  69. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 8, 2020 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

    Mandatory to be vaccinated to go to school and three states have medical exemptions only. That is plenty enough to protest, let alone policy going more in that direction. You lose definitively once again. Slayer of Unreason here.

  70. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 8, 2020 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    I put up strong evidence Americans were injected with SV40, a tumor-causing simian virus for years in the polio vaccine. It spreads to people to weren’t injected. By characterizing vaccine abstainers as paranoid you take on some degree of culpability in unimaginable suffering. Why do you need to be beat over the head with the truth? I already smoked you with this shit.

  71. Posted February 8, 2020 at 9:21 pm | Permalink

    HW, if you think you are making a convincing argument, you are not.

    I still feel that a carrot approach would work better than a stick approach but it is pretty well established that herd immunity is real and that those who don’t vaccinate when they can are freeriding. That means they are getting a benefit that they don’t pay for. The problem is that once the vaccination rates fall below the rate where there is herd immunity they are part of the population most at risk. If it were only adults and no one who needs medical exemptions I would be cool with it but no, these people are causing harm to others who don’t deserve it so it is completely appropriate for the government to step in to stop those people from causing harm. I don’t think anyone should ever be forced to undergo medical treatments without consent but not being allowed to go to public school seems very reasonable as does quarantines of those who are unvaccinated during outbreaks.

  72. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 9, 2020 at 1:38 am | Permalink

    “HW, if you think you are making a convincing argument, you are not.”

    Why do you bother saying things like that? That’s supposed to mean something to anyone but you? How stunted are you mentally? It’s like “Waah! I’m a baby! I think my opinion directly affects reality! I make pronouncements about things I don’t understand and couple it with made up bullshit about people who do understand!”

  73. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 9, 2020 at 1:47 am | Permalink

    If you can’t deal with reality don’t try to just make up bullshit about things you don’t know about like vaccine safety. SV40 was in a vaccine for nearly a decade. That ought to make you think but instead of thinking you are like “Durrr, ur so stuuupid…”

    I’m not getting injected with dangerous substances I don’t even have a data sheet on. Not anymore. Not in this lifetime so fuck you.

  74. Lynne
    Posted February 9, 2020 at 5:19 am | Permalink

    HW. Yawn. No is going to make you get a vaccine. It just means you are a selfish freeloader.

  75. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 9, 2020 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    Wrong, dork. There is no proof vaccinations even work and there is evidence they cause injury. You are pushing something extraordinarily dangerous to human health. Not being able to go to school without them is the virtual equivalent of “being made” to get them.

  76. Hyborian Warlorf
    Posted February 9, 2020 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    If you have relatives who were vaccinated in those years who died from certain cancers and had SV40 there is a good chance they died from getting the polio vaccine.

  77. Sad
    Posted February 9, 2020 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    Oh my god HW.

    No proof vaccinations even work?

  78. The Measles
    Posted February 9, 2020 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

    “There is no proof vaccinations even work.”

    Do tell.

  79. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 9, 2020 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

    Show me your best evidence of it that has nothing to do with anyone’s opinion. It’s supposed to cause antibodies that strengthen the immune system. That is the theory. I’m not saying that idea could never be applied successfully. I don’t know.

    Certain ingredients are dangerous for sure. You want to make people get injected with aluminum?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdGCJJ_XBS4

  80. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 9, 2020 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

    Diseases went down with modern sanitation.

  81. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 9, 2020 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

    Huh!

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/04/measles-outbreak-traced-fully-vaccinated-patient-first-time

  82. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 9, 2020 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

    If vaccinated people are immune then why is it a danger to them if an unvaccinated person gets something? Just let them have their flu and get their own natural immunity. If they die then at least they went out on their own terms. If you get vaccinated for a rare disease and come down with it maybe it was a mistake to take it. Maybe it is dangerous in the extreme. I think more will be coming out about vaccine injuries that will back up what I say.

    It’s big business making vaccines. It may well be population control. You have to reckon with those many many people injected with SV40. How many died from cancers associated with it? What is the cost in human suffering? What is the cost in dollars? As Q likes to remind us: “Expand your thinking.”

  83. Sad
    Posted February 9, 2020 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    Do you just pray if you’re HW?

  84. Sad
    Posted February 9, 2020 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    Sick

  85. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 9, 2020 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

    Whatever I am doing seems to be working. Don’t get sick much anymore. I cannot remember the last time I had a cold or anything.

  86. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 9, 2020 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

    What can someone with SV40 do but pray, Sad? I can think of something to support being cancer-free but vaxxers think physiologically active herbal compounds are “snake oil”.

  87. Lynne
    Posted February 9, 2020 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

    Vaccines do not work 100% unfortunately. Also there are people who for medical reasons are unable to get vaccines. It was interesting though because I just recently got to see how this works first hand. The flu was going around and the 3/4 people living in the house here got it. Two of us had had the flu vaccine and one had not. She was so much more suck than either of the other two of us. I thought I just had a cold even, but then we realized it was flu when the other person got so sick she had to go to urgent care. Sometimes the flu vaccine can make the illness less severe even if it fails to prevent it altogether. Here in California where it is very common not to vaccinate, there are often infant deaths from whooping cough because infants are too young to be vaccinated.

    I think the State has an interest in protecting children who often are unvaccinated by the choice of their parents. The State absolutely has an interest in protecting the health of everyone. People who do not vaccinate cause harm. There is an externality here that should be captured. One way is to deny people who don’t vaccinate a benefit such as public school. I would prefer payments of thousands of dollars to anyone who gets their children and themselves fully vaccinated. Neither of those things are the same as forcing people to get vaccines. Not that HW has a leg to stand on in terms of bodily autonomy anyways. He is fine with voting for a man who is openly trying to force women to remain pregnant when they do not want to be. He clearly only cares about bodily autonomy when it comes to himself.

    There is no point in trying to convince HW. He denies facts if they are in opposition to his values. I sometimes wish he was as good at reasoning as he thinks he is but he doesn’t seem to even understand that even the best logic in the world will still lead to a false conclusion if one begins with a false premise as he so often does. Not that he ever displays the best logic in the world or anything. You cannot argue with people like that though. They are hopeless.

  88. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 9, 2020 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

    I take on your facts directly. It is you who is unable to respond to my information. You think your dumbass opinion means something even when you cannot respond to a bombshell like SV40.

  89. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 9, 2020 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    “I think the State has an interest in protecting children who often are unvaccinated by the choice of their parents. The State absolutely has an interest in protecting the health of everyone. People who do not vaccinate cause harm. There is an externality here that should be captured. One way is to deny people who don’t vaccinate a benefit such as public school. I would prefer payments of thousands of dollars to anyone who gets their children and themselves fully vaccinated. Neither of those things are the same as forcing people to get vaccines.”

    It is MANDATORY in the strictest sense of the word to be vaccinated to go to public school in California with only a medical exemption possible. Mandatory vaccination to receive public education. It is still possible to not be vaccinated in the USA but the pressure to get your children injected is strong. It must be a tremendous hardship for non-vaxxers to be excluded from public education.

  90. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 9, 2020 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

    More on SV40 in the polio vaccine: Present in all samples; up to 100 million people injected with cancer-causing virus worldwide. Cause for more than alarm, it is a crime against humanity.

    https://prn.fm/myths-polio-vaccines-safety-efficacy/

    One of the largest and most devious medical scandals in the history of American medicine also concerns the polio vaccine. In an excellent history about the polio vaccine, Neil Miller shares the story of Dr. Bernice Eddy, a scientist at the NIH who in 1959 “discovered that the polio vaccines being administered throughout the world contained an infectious agent capable of causing cancer.” As the story is told, her attempts to warn federal officials resulted in the removal of her laboratory and being demoted at the agency.[5] It was only later that one of the nation’s most famous vaccine developers, Maurice Hilleman at Merck identified the agent as a cancer causing monkey virus, SV40, common in almost all rhesus monkeys being used to culture the polio virus for the vaccine. This contaminant virus was found in all samples of the Sabin oral polio vaccine tested. The virus was also being found in Salk’s killed polio injectable vaccine as well. No one knows for certain how many American’s received SV40 contaminated vaccines, but some estimates put the figure as high as 100 million people. That was greater than half the US population in 1963 when the vaccine was removed from the market.

  91. Sad
    Posted February 9, 2020 at 8:47 pm | Permalink

    HW you’re a lying dog faced pony soldier!

  92. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 9, 2020 at 10:49 pm | Permalink

    How so?

  93. Posted February 18, 2020 at 7:49 am | Permalink

    From Politico:

    Vermont Gov. Phil Scott endorses Bill Weld for Republican presidential nomination

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/15/phil-scott-endorses-bill-weld-gop-115375

  94. iRobert
    Posted February 28, 2020 at 7:27 am | Permalink

    Does anybody else here notice how the GOP under the Trump Administration resembles the characters and story in the episode entitled “It’s a Good Life” from the original Twilight Zone series?

    Mitt Romney is a bad man. He’s a very bad man, and he’s been thinking bad thoughts about the president.

  95. iRobert
    Posted February 28, 2020 at 7:33 am | Permalink

    Democrats should nominate Billy Mumy’s character to run against Trump and see if anybody gets the reference.

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