We are witnessing the end of the American experiment

Well, it looks as though this is it. Republican Senator Lamar Alexander, who many thought might be a voice of reason, given that he’d already announced his retirement from the Republican controlled Senate, has announced that he will not be voting to hear the firsthand testimony of former Trump administration National Security Advisor John Bolton. His argument? We already know the President is guilty, so what’s the point… If you don’t believe me, here it is in his own words.

Yes, it looks as though the Republicans now have the votes they need to end the impeachment trial of Donald Trump, a man who, we know all know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, withheld military aid from an ally at war with Russia in violation of the Impoundment Control Act in order to coerce a new Ukrainian administration into announcing a fake corruption investigation into Joe Biden. How anyone could acknowledge a president’s attempt to rig an election, and, in the same breath, argue that Congress should waive its constitutional duty in order to let “the people” make the decision at the ballot box in November, is absolutely beyond me, but that’s the point we’re at now as a country. The party that once argued that a president had be be removed from office for lying under oath about a consensual affair, is now arguing that we should turn the other way and accept a head of state who abused the power of his office in order to coerce an ally into lying on his behalf in order to influence the outcome of an election. This, I’m afraid, really could be the end, unless we rise up in unprecedented numbers in November and remove not only Donald Trump, but every single Republican Senator who brought us to this point.

This entry was posted in Politics, Uncategorized and tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. Post a comment or leave a trackback: Trackback URL.

72 Comments

  1. John Brown
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 7:41 am | Permalink

    Christo fascist are willing to do literally anything to avoid losing power to the godless heathen masses. This must be the underlying premise of all future action. It will escalate. Welcome to Gilead.

  2. EOS
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    A present had a conceptual affair? Is the University blocking computer access to your own blog?

  3. Jean Henry
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 8:32 am | Permalink

    Dershowitz is a very good defense lawyer. Not an honorable one but a good one. He gave the GOP an out that appeared constitutional enough.

    “The defendant wants to hide the truth because he’s generally guilty. The defense attorney’s job is to make sure the jury does not arrive at that truth.”
    – Alan Dershowitz
    U.S. News & World Report (August 9, 1982), Vol. 93, p. 62.

  4. iRobert
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    244 years was a pretty good run for a Democratic-Republic…especially one of this size.

    Well, everyone knows better than the founders now. They’ve all been dead for more than two centuries. We have the advantage of all the great learning that has happened since their passing. We’re geniuses.

  5. Frosted Flakes
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 9:09 am | Permalink

    Columbo does not understand the difference between scoring on the goal posts one set up for oneself on the one hand; and on the other hand an act which was judged to be “inappropriate” but not rising to the level of an impeachable offense.

    Although he uses the term often, the concept of “guilty” seems to evade Columbo.

  6. Frosted Flakes
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    “This, I’m afraid, really could be the end, unless we rise up in unprecedented numbers in November and remove not only Donald Trump, but every single Republican Senator who brought us to this point.”

    Yes. We need to remove every single one of them whom, like Alexander, have the audacity to break ranks with Mark Maynard’s point of view.

    (Doesn’t it sound a tad bit narcissistic?)

  7. Dan Pfeiffer by proxy
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 9:26 am | Permalink

    The President’s former National Security Advisor – a tried and true member of the Republican establishment – asked to testify about potential crimes committed by the President and the Republican Senators banned him from doing so

  8. EOS
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    If I had the chance, I would get rid of the House leaders who tried and failed to make a routine Presidential act into an impeachable offense. The game was over the moment Trump released the transcript of the phone call. And if Schiff was under oath when he made any of his “hyperbolic’ accusations, he should be charged. If Pelosi isn’t the worst Speaker of all time, she’s certainly among the contenders for the award.

  9. EOS
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    There’s a big difference between hiding the truth and being unwilling to prolong the charade.

  10. Lynne
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    Oh please FF. I know you like to frame this like it is just a normal disagreement but it really isn’t. One side is straight up supporting criminal behavior from the president. This isn’t just about an ideology winning but really is about how much corruption we are willing to tolerate in our government. So yeah, it is about removing people who disagree with me on that subject, it still feels like more than simply voting out people just for disagreeing.

    On a completely side note, voting people out of office is what people are supposed to do with politicians with whom they don’t agree. Unfortunately for us, our slave owning white man founding fathers put in a system that gives quite an advantage to rural states which tend to be populated and run by those who prefer a patriarchal system. The hope we can all still have as Americans is that despite the game they talk, those guys are mostly cowards and there isn’t really a danger of another civil war. No one is willing to die for their racism these days and that is a good thing. They will keep using their money and they will do everything they can to continue to rig the system in their favor. They likely will maintain much more political power than the coasts where most people live. However, that is the beauty of things, they will be a minority and culturally the nation is just going to keep getting more inclusive and more open and much much more liberal. Perhaps we will not generally tolerate the corruption of our leaders going forward, regardless of what ideology we support. I have some hope.

  11. Frosted Flakes
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 11:53 am | Permalink

    “One side is straight up supporting criminal behavior from the president.“

    It is all about interpretation of intent. The pro impeachment side is for some reason unable to understand that it is not unreasonable to interpret Trump’s intent as an attempt to ask Ukraine to investigate potential corruption within Ukraine.

    You have been brainwashed Lynne.

    Trump is not the legitimately elected president.
    Trump will be forever be accused via impeachment.
    Trump’s acquittal will not be legitimate.
    Trump’s 2020 win will not be legitimate.

    Do you not see the trend? Many here seem to support the destruction of the legitimacy of due process and election results. It is the height of narcissistic irresponsibility. Those same people are crying that American institutions are dead because they do not agree with the results of the 2016 elections, the mueller report, impeachment proceedings, and *future*elections.

    Highly irresponsible. Very childish.

  12. Sad
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 12:10 pm | Permalink

    Here’s some recommendation FF.

    Head over to Bloom City Club on Miller Rd in Ann Arbor. They might be able to hook you up.
    I’m surprised HW hasn’t offered to help you get some relief.

    https://www.marijuanabreak.com/best-marijuana-strains-to-get-you-totally-relaxed

  13. Frosted Flakes
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

    Lynne is accusing people of supporting criminality because they disagree with her on whether or not Trump’s act is criminal and/or an impeachable offense. In fact she is denying that there can be legitimate disagreement about the act. She does this while failing to show any competency about legal matters.

    It is circular reasoning. Begging the question (fallacy) again. Lynne really need to educate herself on the pitfalls of fallacious reasoning. Lynne probably also needs to investigate her narcissistic and authoritarian impulses with a licensed mental health professional. Maybe multiple people in the MM.com community could go to a psychologist together and get a group rate?

  14. Frosted Flakes
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    I don’t like drugs, Sad. If you think Bloom is helping you then go for it.

  15. Jean Henry
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    Italy is still hanging in there. Germany too.

    ”Abuse of power should come as no surprise.” — Jenny Holzer, Truisms

  16. Sad
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    Maybe Yoga?

    Some of my friends say this place is great.

    http://www.tinybuddhayoga.com

  17. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    Brexit today. Amazing! Major blow to globalization.

  18. Frosted Flakes
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

    I would hate to ruin any good vibes with my negative energy, Sad. I thought I freaked you out?

    It sounds like you have a routine that helps you maintain your passive approach to life. If that works for you that is great.

  19. Anonymous
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

    Rubio: “Just because actions meet a standard of impeachment does not mean it is in the best interest of the country to remove a President from office.”

  20. Frosted Flakes
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

    Schiff is a weird little thespian.

  21. Monica
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    Mark — Am with you entirely. Sad day. I cried when I heard the Lamar and Murkowski news and I rarely cry. Can’t tell you the last time — maybe it was over draw down rights being extended to El Salvador one more time… way back when.

    Hard to believe but here we are. And it looks like we could have this continue beyond the election. Where to move?

  22. Bob
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    Jean hearts Dersh

  23. Frosted Flakes
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

    Trump was not a real candidate.

    The 16 election of Trump was not real.

    The findings of the Mueller report were not real.

    The impeachment trial was not real.

    Trump’s inevitable acquittal will not be real.

    Damaging evidence that might come out of Burisma will not be real (because Russians hacked Burisma).

    The 2020 election of Trump will not be real.

    (Who are the conspiracy theorists?)

  24. Frosted Flakes
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

    “If Gabbard, or anyone else in the Democratic field, decides to run as a third party candidate, they are doing it for one reason — to aid the campaign of Donald Trump.”—MM

    Tulsi Gabbard is not REALLY running for office.

    Tulsi is REALLY a third party plant to take votes away from the Dems as a spoiler.

    (Who are the real conspiracy theorists?)

  25. Frosted Flakes
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

    The Horowitz report did not REALLY document strong evidence for FISA abuse.

    People who think the Horowitz report was highly damning are addicted to conspiracy theories that are not real.

    (Who are the real conspiracy theorists?)

  26. Lynne
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

    When a man who supports President Trump (which of course demonstrates concretely that he cannot recognize narcissistic or authoritarian behavior) says this, “Lynne probably also needs to investigate her narcissistic and authoritarian impulses with a licensed mental health professional. It has no meaning because the person saying it isn’t standing on solid ground. Nice try though FF.

    Tulsi Gabbard is of no consequence. If she runs as a third party candidate we will just know for sure that she has no integrity. If people vote for her, they will be helping Trump.

  27. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

    “which of course demonstrates concretely that he cannot recognize narcissistic or authoritarian behavior”

    Grow up, Lynne. So childish.

  28. Frosted Flakes
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 6:18 pm | Permalink

    Tu quoque (fallacy).

    Lynne really needs to educate herself on the pitfalls of fallacious reasoning.

  29. Demetrius
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

    After all this … do people really think Trump is going to step down as President, whatever the result of the 2020 election?

  30. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 31, 2020 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

    You keep going in the same direction even though you have lost every time. He’s going to do this and that and the world’s going to end and and and…Not one thing any of the maynardites has howled about has come true. Come up with one significant thing you have been correct on.

  31. Jean Henry
    Posted February 1, 2020 at 1:26 am | Permalink

    BOB– Did you read the quote? My statement?
    Is this 7th grade actually?

  32. iRobert
    Posted February 1, 2020 at 8:29 am | Permalink

    It’s better that the GOP senators chose not to remove Trump by impeachment. Had they gone ahead and done that, we would be even deeper in constitutional and social crisis. Democrats have to remove Trump by turning out in overwhelming droves at the polls.

    I know everything seems terrible, but there is actually a lot of good in this outcome in the senate. If Democrats stop seeing everyone as their enemy, they’d be in a good position going into this November’s general. That’s too big of an ask, apparently, though.

  33. Frosted Flakes
    Posted February 1, 2020 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    “If Democrats stop seeing everyone as their enemy…”

    Nice post and I appreciate your wisdom even though I know we do not agree on everything.

    Many Dems assume people who do not agree with them are evil criminals or evil supporters of criminals. Many believe that what they personally want ought to overshadow what is best for the country as a whole. Removal from office would be a disaster for the country, I agree.

    Average adults, young adults, highschoolers, middle schoolers and even elementary schoolers do not think in the selfish ways that are on display here. What is on display is preschool level thought/emotional processing.

    I am wondering if shame will ever kick in and do its job so we might be able to move to the next phase of being together.

  34. Jean Henry
    Posted February 1, 2020 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

    Pivoting you’re the Iowa Caucus, this was sobering and reassuring in its way re the usual Dem party circular firing squad.

    https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/1223282162776100864?s=21

    We need to focus on the senate and house. Period. Whoever wins the Dem primary will need our unmeasured support. I hate Bernie but I’m going to be driving ppl to the polls no matter what. I’ll canvas for liberal congressional candidates (state and federal because half this crap needs to be done at the state level) as much as possible.

  35. Jean Henry
    Posted February 1, 2020 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

    Most Dems understand the difference between criminal presidents and their supporters.

    FF— You regularly call people who disagree with you here mentally deranged. Outside of HW who is very clearly nuts (even conservatives must admit that) no one here demonstrates anything more than your standard depressive and anxiety ridden Michigander in winter symptoms. Even though all of you are pretty deep into co spuracy theories I’m not inclined to call any of you nuts— except HW who is clearly at least in this forum— very very distorted in his thinking and beliefs.
    I know lots of Trumpers. None are as black/white in their thinking as he or as totally out to lunch in their theories. They have just bought a bunch of bullshit. Also liberals ARE embarrassing and silly and smug and easy to make fun of. We should be willing to admit that we are ridiculously self congratulatory about our political stances while usually doing nothing more politically than taking reusable shopping bags to the store.
    The cashiers laugh at me at Polly’s inWL. I’m such a cliche!
    But a few also tell me privately how much they hate Trump. Usually they have some personal connection to someone harmed by his policies.
    If he goes down it will be because we show ourselves to be more caring not because we show ourselves to be more radical. Most ppl I know who love Bernie or Warren or Biden or Pete…believe they care more about them than the other candidate. We all crave a re-humanizing of governance and discourse. Hard to do with a bully, racist and rapist in chief.

  36. Jean Henry
    Posted February 1, 2020 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    An appeal to commonality and joy and the keg stand as great unifier.

    https://youtu.be/tN9Dj5tkXAE

    I have never done a keg stand but surely would if FF would join me. Maybe we can do a fundraiser to support market rate housing development or start up capital for people of color or some other neoliberal enterprise on which both sides can agree.

  37. Frosted Flakes
    Posted February 1, 2020 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    It is not merely disagreement Jean that leads me toward those harsh judgments Jean… I do not agree with iRobert on that much but I can appreciate the wisdom he often displays.

    Trump is not perfect but he is necessary. The question is why is he necessary? Even if you don’t think it is true you might do a thought experiment where you assume Trump (as a necessity) is true— while staring into the mirror. The possibility of transcending Trump will require some heavy duty soul searching and re-educating amongst many.

    It does not surprise me that you know Trump supporters who confide in you that they do not like some aspects of his character. I think that is normal. The biggest Trump supporter I know personally admits “he is an asshole”. I think that is normal.

  38. Frosted Flakes
    Posted February 1, 2020 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

    I appreciate what you are doing in housing in AA Jean. I thought about saying that before but I didn’t. No keg stands for me though.

  39. Lynne
    Posted February 1, 2020 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    Trump only seems necessary to people who are desperate to keep white men in charge. Weak cowardly men who fear power in the hands of women or POC. That is why they are ok with overlooking criminal behavior. It is so sad that so many American men are so weak.

  40. Lynne
    Posted February 1, 2020 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

    Although it might be even more sad that so many white women are willing to throw their sisters under the bus. Especially those who are US Senators. Sadly, the ERA still is unlikely to get through the Senate.

  41. Frosted Flakes
    Posted February 1, 2020 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    Never stop talking Lynne! Even though we usually know what you will say before you say it—I think it is very important that you keep expressing yourself!

  42. Frosted Flakes
    Posted February 1, 2020 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

    We are witnessing an end to an American Dem experiment (in using impeachment to nullify democracy and possibly an attempt to coverup their own crimes).

    Shed all the tears you want.

  43. Jean Henry
    Posted February 1, 2020 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    FF — Trump is only necessary if you believe populism truly expresses the best aspirations of the people v their fear.
    I dont like populism on the left or the right as they both hinge on divisiveness and usually produce corrupt leaders not progressive ones. Populism justifies autocratic means to governance. I very much get why Trump was elected. Most people I know who went with a Trump ‘voted with their middle finger’ or were rich. I think Sanders base and Trumps have the many of the same complaints and isolationist tendencies. The reality is that the left led anti-globalism efforts. The left has been for protectionist tariffs and opposed global trade agreements. The left bought that offshoring was the problem with our corporatocracy not corruption and abuse and profit hoarding. I disagreed with the left on all those things. So Trump literally represents the worst of the left and the right for me.

    I recently bought a relatively new car (not new because I’m not an idiot) and in seeking advice beforehand caught a lot of Flack for not buying American (I co sundered the Cruze but rejected it after hearing from people who owned them) When I said my Toyota would be made with union labor, they said where? In Japan. I’m pro union; I’m not pro isolationist.

    There is no part of the Trump agenda that I support or think will work economically. A trillion dollar deficit and tax giveaway to the rich? Expanded border bureaucracy and predation with still inadequate immigration reform? Provoking anger and division to energize followers, encouraging bullying and violence? Creating global instability and insecurity that is terrible for all economies? Self dealing and installing his family as his closest advisors?

    It’s all reprehensible. I expect leaders to lead. I expect more from our country (all sides) than falling for an amoral tv personality who knows how to manipulate them.

    I’m super left on some things and very much in the middle on others. I’m not interested in pretending foreign policy is easy or morality there clear cut. I’m not interested in pretending isolationism is a moral position. I’m a true American patriot and skeptic who believes in the mandate of free speech and free press and freedom of religion and equity and FairPlay and opportunity.

    I think most Americans are somewhere in there with me and will eventually embrace reparations and an end to mass incarceration and full inclusive representation in government and a working anti racist immigration system that values all workers equally and an amendment banning discrimination on gender, just as they have embraced gay marriage. I think these things are inevitable so long as our democracy stands.

    And I think the ‘need’ represented by Trump’s election is a resistance to all of that and so an existential threat to our democracy.

    I truly hope you are right and that’s overblown, but I care and I know my history and Trump is the kind of leader who can really fuck up a Republic. So vigilance and resistance is in my book a reasonable response.

    Ps typed this on my phone which I can’t read, so apologies for any typos. I actually meant this and needed to write it. I’m going to the eye doctor next week for an increasingly debilitating astigmatism (and hopefully not macular degeneration). Let’s see if I suddenly seem more sane to FF and other commenters here…

  44. Jean Henry
    Posted February 1, 2020 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    FF– we commenters argue here over current events for the most part. Your assumption that our positions are not grounded in some larger understanding of the political zeitgeist and in some more personal understanding of our individual positions in it is completely unfounded. We don’t all agree at all. If there is anything a conservative should learn by spending so much time on a left-wing local blog, which let’s face it is not really very locally concerned anymore, it’s that people on the left don’t agree on everything or on much really. We actively disagree.That’s evidence of having arrived at our own and different conclusions about the same events in spite of holding some core liberal progressive beliefs in common.

    Your assumption that we haven’t thought our positions through is based on your bias, not evidence. We could not be further from any kind of cookie-cutter response. We simply all hate Trump and for our own reasons but also for some very commonly held reasons. This is true even among conservatives as you must know unless you spend all your time with liberals. I don’t. And it sounds. as though many here don’t. I have said many times the conservatives here are not representative. I wouldn’t call myself representative of the left either. But I can usually have a conversation across differences. I don’t have to feign agreement with others to do so, like you do here.

    Why FF, do you refuse to admit that HW’s theories are mostly batshit crazy. I call people like Bob on the left idiots all the time when they are being idiots. Ive had vigorous disagreements with Lynne here. You don’t call out anyone on the right on anything ever, and yet you accuse us of not having independent thought???

    When I hear your critique of the position of anyone here on the right, I will listen to your complaints.

    Maybe you are right about the FBI and FISA violations. We’ll find out. I’m not sure why you would expect me or any on the left to get all up in arms about it without evidence. I had no expectation you would get up in arms about our President’s self-dealing. I think you are dense to almost every political distinction of importance but that’s not because we disagree fundamentally on politics. It’s because you are uniquely close-minded about alternative viewpoints, even for a conservative.

    What do you think of George Conway and George Will. I don’t agree with them about much, but at least they have the moral courage to defend their party against the pillaging that is happening to it via Trump.

  45. Jean Henry
    Posted February 1, 2020 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-spiraling-president-adds-self-impeachment-to-his-repertoire/2019/10/10/8c1a739c-eb7c-11e9-9c6d-436a0df4f31d_story.html

  46. Jean Henry
    Posted February 1, 2020 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-conway-dont-let-the-defense-fool-you-this-impeachment-is-all-about-corruption/2020/01/30/c3417c58-43a6-11ea-b503-2b077c436617_story.html

  47. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 1, 2020 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

    “HW who is very clearly nuts”

    It’s insane to get wasted every day on every single issue you raise by someone but it’s you calling them nuts.

  48. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 1, 2020 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

    “HW’s theories are mostly batshit crazy”

    Why should anyone believe your propaganda? I make you QUIT with my command of knowledge on every single issue you take up with me. Yesterday it was vaccine safety. The day before that it was Cannabis toxicity. You never ever win against me so what you say automatically rings hollow.

  49. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 1, 2020 at 8:03 pm | Permalink

    I don’t know what dafuq you think you are doing by trying to pigeonhole me as being “on the right”. I’m on my own wave. It’s about advancing truth and exposing lies.

    I voted for Trump in spite of him being in the same party as the Bush’s and a whole bunch of other scumbags I never supported. Now the Republican party has been cleaned of compromised (blackmailed/bribed) Congressman. Look at how many stepped down, just as Q said they would in 2017. Same goes for corporate leaders. Dems have demurred for the most part and desperately kept their game going to try to stop their prosecution. As Q said: “Nothing can stop what is coming. Nothing.” Laugh all you want but I guarantee you will cry.

  50. Sad
    Posted February 1, 2020 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    https://youtu.be/cQrgeeS_qbo

  51. Jean Henry
    Posted February 2, 2020 at 9:46 am | Permalink

    HW — I’m already crying. I’ve been crying. We agree that Trump may be a transformative president for our nation. I fear what he brings while you relish it.
    But those congressmen resigned because they can’t work with Trump and disagree with him. So far the widespread corruption you predicted would be exposed has only been exposed in Trump.

  52. Jean Henry
    Posted February 2, 2020 at 10:00 am | Permalink

    This clip always makes me sad for what the GOP has become since the tea party hijacked it. I’m a liberal but I also believe in plurality. Now any reasonable conservative is leaving public service. There’s no one left willing to compromise to get things done, or to prevent damage. McCains vote to preserve the ACA may be the last principled conservative stand we’ll ever see.

    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x43f9z2

  53. EOS
    Posted February 2, 2020 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    Trump will be acquitted. The Dems failed to back up their false accusations with evidence. 18 witnesses who had no first hand evidence. The voters will re-elect Trump by far greater margins in 2020. Dems keep repeating lies to their detriment.

  54. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 2, 2020 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    You want a President who works in concert with the CIA like you are used to. Okay, there. Too bad everything is getting better now. If Hillary Clinton got us into WWIII you would have said it’s all the fault of white supremacists like Donald Trump. THAT’s the reason the world hates us!

  55. Frosted Flakes
    Posted February 2, 2020 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

    “Why FF, do you refuse to admit that HW’s theories are mostly batshit crazy. I call people like Bob on the left idiots all the time when they are being idiots. Ive had vigorous disagreements with Lynne here. You don’t call out anyone on the right on anything ever, and yet you accuse us of not having independent thought???“

    I don’t think HW is crazy, Jean. If you think he is crazy on some point you should give debating him another try.

    People from the left and right thinking you are crazy is not evidence that you are independent thinker searching for the truth. It makes perfect sense to me that you, Lynne, and Mark would also argue a lot. In-fighting is also not evidence that you guys are independent thinkers searching for the truth. I have much more in common with Wobblie and iRobert than I have with establishment Dems like you guys. I think the commonality (on some issues) on display is representative of a realignment occurring.

    Your penchant for taking a concept like “populism” and pretending to “unfold” that concept into the notions of “autocratic” and “corrupt” is a hilariously fake excercise. Do you not see how it is another example (from you) of macho-thinking? It’s not progressive. So many labels. So many assumptions. It is just not that easy, Jean. I suspect it only appears easy to you because somewhere along the line became convinced that you ought to be control. You and others here seem to feel you ought to be entitled to control and authority.

    In order for me to think otherwise would require that I start witnessing you argue SPECIFIC points with honesty and competence. Remember my reaction to Amash announcing Trump ought to be impeached?Instead you and others here just like to announce things like “Trump obviously guilty and should be removed from office”. It’s stupid. People are pushing back against the general stupidity. Pushing back against the stupidity almost seems to becoming a movement. That larger movement is playing out on a small scale here on mm.com imo. It is great to see.

    The power of reason and information against the lies and half-truths of the in-control-and-powerful! Could a movement like that fit under the negative label “populist”? I’m dying to know your opinion, Jean.

  56. Wobblie
    Posted February 2, 2020 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    Aloha. HW is so clueless (as is almost everyone on this web site) that they don’t realize WWIII has already started. HW sees all the folks not running for re-election and does not realize that the numbers are comparable to other general election year cycles. JH is an incremental gradual pluralist and fails to realize we are in the last seconds of the last quarter and only a Hail Mary play has any hope of reversing our trajectory.
    Young people know just how venal and corrupt both parties are, that is why they are flocking to our last best choices.
    On Tuesday Sanders will win big and Gabbard will be in 3 rd or fourth.
    The Corp Dems are falling all over themselves trying to change the rules for nomination yet again. They know Biden is toast. If they have there way It will be Bloomberg if not, then Hillary on the 2nd ballot.

  57. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 2, 2020 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    Clueless because I don’t see it your dumbass way. Oh, yeah – “It’s World War right now! Can’t you see???” I’ve never seen a more backwards bunch and that is saying a lot. You say the opposite of the truth and hurl abuse at people who don’t believe it. I didn’t expect it to be so bizarre when I started posting here.

    Ballotpedia says in 2018 52 incumbent representatives did not run for re-election. In 2016 28 of them did the same. Wrong as usual. Don’t you get tired of losing, wob?

    https://ballotpedia.org/List_of_U.S._Congress_incumbents_who_did_not_run_for_re-election_in_2016

  58. Lynne
    Posted February 2, 2020 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    I agree with Krugman. It doesn’t matter that much who gets the nomination. My worry is that it will be Sanders and then his supporters will become disillusioned. We will see!

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/31/opinion/does-it-matter-who-the-democrats-choose.html?fbclid=IwAR2aQ0hRIHYFOhFScda2sKjoIPc0ae3F8ZEMtYT2cx-j08Zt2wgsrXYCx4M

  59. Wobblie
    Posted February 2, 2020 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

    Aloha HW. Less than 5% one election and less than 10% in another. 36 this cycle about 8%. I do not see my interactions here as a competition so nothing to win or loose. Only insecure children see everything as a zero sum game.
    Our nation is actively shooting at the officials of another nation state. That nation state is engaged in actively shooting at our troops. Definition of war.

  60. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 2, 2020 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

    Baynard lies in every blog entry. How could he be “guilty” of a non-crime? Alexander did not say he was guilty at all. He claimed something was proven that didn’t meet the standard of impeachment. Why do you lie so bad all the time, dude?

  61. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 2, 2020 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    “I do not see my interactions here as a competition so nothing to win or loose. ”

    Then you ought to shut your bitch ass up about me. Almost a hundred percent increase from ’16 – ’18.

  62. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 2, 2020 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

    It’s like mowing down real life garden gnomes. Wtf. I’ve never found any nastier, stupider people that are so easy to waste. I don’t even have to try at all anymore. It’s just waste ’em, waste ’em, waste ’em every day no problem.

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/04/11/near-record-number-of-house-members-not-seeking-re-election-in-2018/

  63. EOS
    Posted February 2, 2020 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    Go Chiefs!

  64. Wobblie
    Posted February 2, 2020 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

    Aloha HW you must have forgotten this is 2020. The number of incumbents who did not run in 2018 were a near record. But you are the biggest bestest winner there has ever been. Oh wait that’s Trump position your just another miserable second fiddler.

  65. Jean Henry
    Posted February 2, 2020 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

    “The emotional universes we inhabit are so distinct, and in deepest ways opposed, that nothing fruitful or sincere could ever emerge from association between us.” –Bertrand Russell in response to a pro-fascist correspondent.

    https://www.brainpickings.org/2016/10/06/bertrand-russell-oswald-mosley/?fbclid=IwAR1srsl8z8WNhZ7OCbuN7blnX2CWdJNqI6uZBdpu1pmuuf1pYpf5ikwob1A

    I know no one here self-identifies as fascistic, but HW has said many things that indicate he’s most of the way there and is only awaiting the orders of Our Dear Leader to begin enforcing a fascistic code of conduct.

  66. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 2, 2020 at 11:16 pm | Permalink

    “Aloha HW you must have forgotten this is 2020. The number of incumbents who did not run in 2018 were a near record. But you are the biggest bestest winner there has ever been. Oh wait that’s Trump position your just another miserable second fiddler.”

    So immature. You suck, wob. I hope you don’t think that was an answer. I was talking about what happened after Q drops in 2017. 2018 comes after that, remember?

  67. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 2, 2020 at 11:22 pm | Permalink

    “I know no one here self-identifies as fascistic, but HW has said many things that indicate he’s most of the way there and is only awaiting the orders of Our Dear Leader to begin enforcing a fascistic code of conduct.”

    Everyone knows you lie every day. What a lame tactic. You are the fascist. You support rule by actual fascist intelligence agencies. You said a President should never speak against the CIA. You follow everything they say. It’s all coming down, Jean. Everything is going my way. It has since I started here. I told you how everything is going to go and nothing has proven me wrong yet. Peace, prosperity, no collusion, no removal from office, on and on…

  68. Lynne
    Posted February 3, 2020 at 2:56 am | Permalink

    I don’t think JH is a liar or a fascist fwiw. I would be surprised if many here do apart from some who tend to have such thoughts about ANY outspoken woman.

  69. Jean Henry
    Posted February 3, 2020 at 6:57 am | Permalink

    HW– You declared with glee one day the coming of martial law and mass arrests. your position re border immigration abs the travel ban along with the presidents is fascistic. Your interest in free speech is not, but I’m guessing you’d go along on curbing resistance to Trump’s power given a chance. Look at how Trump has whittled away at the independence of the other branches while asserting executive authority and protections beyond what any other president has done.

    Tell me HW– who will be conducting those mass arrests you dream of? Which agency or military organization?

  70. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 3, 2020 at 7:57 am | Permalink

    Was Abraham Lincoln a fascist, Jean? He had martial law and tribunals. The problem is you are in denial about the severity of the current situation. Desperate times call for desperate ________. You will understand in time along with everyone else.

    How is a border wall fascist? That’s retarded. Restricting travel from dangerous countries that refuse to provide required information on their travelers is fascist how? You use the word as a weapon but you do not understand it. Whittle away at other branches? Are you out of your mind? The House is trying to lop off a fuckin’ branch, dumbass!

  71. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 3, 2020 at 8:15 am | Permalink

    You attack people who didn’t support a candidate who “dreamed of a borderless hemisphere”. Any way you slice it that means the dissolution of the USA. It’s absolute globalist tyranny. Yeah, let’s see how great this world becomes when the white supremacist USA falls!

  72. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted February 3, 2020 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    “some who tend to have such thoughts about ANY outspoken woman.”

    What an asinine viewpoint. It’s hard to believe there is someone who actually believes that. “I don’t like you so I’m going to just make shit up about you that sounds bad!”

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

Connect

BUY LOCAL... or shop at Amazon through this link Banner Initiative Pythias