With his “We Shit on Allies” doctrine solidly in place, Donald Trump hands over the Kurds for slaughter

Back in December, 2018, without consulting any of his national security advisors, Donald Trump announced that we’d be pulling all U.S. troops out of Syria. The response, as you might remember, was both swift and overwhelmingly negative. Lindsey Graham said at the time, “An American withdrawal at this time would be a big win for ISIS, Iran, Bashar al Assad of Syria, and Russia.” And Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis resigned from office in protest. Trump, however, stuck to his guns, saying that there was no more need for U.S. troops in Syria, as we had already “defeated ISIS in Syria.” This, of course, was not true. The terrorist threat, as UK defense minister Tobias Ellwood said shortly after the announcement was made, was still “very much alive.” Then, a few days after Trump made his proclamation about ISIS having been defeated, the terrorist organization claimed credit for the killing four American citizens in Syria. And, with that, our troops stayed put.

Well, Donald Trump announced yesterday, after taking a call from Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, that the time had come for him to make good on last year’s promise and remove all U.S. troops from Syria. “(It) is time for us to get out of these ridiculous Endless Wars, many of them tribal, and bring our soldiers home,” he announced by way of tweet, adding “WE WILL FIGHT WHERE IT IS TO OUR BENEFIT, AND ONLY FIGHT TO WIN.” And, as you might imagine, Republicans and Democrats are once again up in arms (and rightly so), and wondering why Donald Trump would make such a rash decision without first at least consulting national security experts, who, by the way, seem to be pretty unanimous in their concern that this move on the part of the United States will likely mean death for many of the Kurdish fighters in Syria who have been fighting ISIS alongside American soldiers over these past several years.

Not only is this a disaster for our allies, the Kurds, but it demonstrates once again to every other nation in the world the the United States can no longer be expected to honor its agreements, or, for that matter, even act rationally. Trump, when asked why he would agree to pull our troops out as the Turks were preparing to launch an offensive against the Kurds, said that he “consulted with everybody” before making the decision. [Cue the “No he didn’t” voiceover.]

According to at least one anonymous National Security Council source, Donald Trump got “rolled” by Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Here’s an excerpt from the Newsweek story.

…In a scheduled phone call on Sunday afternoon between President Trump and President Erdogan, Trump said he would withdraw U.S. forces from northern Syria. The phone call was scheduled after Turkey announced it was planning to invade Syria, and hours after Erdogan reinforced his army units at the Syrian-Turkish border and issued his strongest threat to launch a military incursion, according to the National Security Council official to whom Newsweek spoke on condition of anonymity.

The U.S. withdrawal plays into the hands of the Islamic State group, Damascus and Moscow, and the announcement left Trump’s own Defense Department “completely stunned,” said Pentagon officials. Turkey, like the United States, wants regime change in Syria. Russia and Iran support the Assad regime…

The most confusing thing to most observers seem to be the fact that there doesn’t appear to be any strategic rationale for the decision. Here, with more on that, is an excerpt from Slate.

…For several years now, through the Obama and Trump administrations, Washington has relied on the Syrian Kurdish militia as the most potent fighters against ISIS, also known as the Islamic State. About 11,000 Kurds died in that fight. Now that they’ve played the lead role in ousting ISIS from its territory, Trump is abandoning them.

…Given the relatively low cost, keeping the troops in place would very much be “to our benefit.” Among other things, the Kurds have been holding 59,000 suspected ISIS supporters in four detention camps. This has been possible only because U.S. troops have been guaranteeing their security. With those troops gone, the Kurds will have to focus on fending off the Turks.

In other words, removing the small contingent of U.S. troops—which has acted as a sort of safety cap—could spring free thousands of ISIS fighters to resume their mayhem.

…The Turks have long viewed the Syrian Democratic Forces—the name of the militia that the Syrian Kurds have been leading—as a threat. They are closely tied to the Kurdistan Workers’ Party, a militant group within Turkey that has waged an insurgency against the Ankara government. Erodgan’s fear is that the two groups, together, could wage a serious battle against the Turkish state…

…Inside Syria, one of two things will happen as a result. Either the Kurds will be mowed down, or they’ll make an alliance with Syrian government, as they’ve already started to do, thereby strengthening Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. The violence will escalate. Probably Trump wouldn’t care either way, though the affected Syrian people will. In any case, the chances of a political settlement dim further—and the chances of an ISIS revival leap up…

So, if this isn’t in the best interest of the American people, why has Donald Trump decided to do it? Why is he essentially handing the Kurds over to Erdogan for slaughter? Well, the Atlantic’s David Frum has a few thoughts on what might be motivating Donald Trump, and none of them have anything to do with national security.

And, yes, there is a Trump tower in Turkey. There are actually two of them. And Donald Trump still hasn’t told the American people how much he earns from them annually… Could it be that Trump is doing his friend Erdogan, who was at the 2012 opening of the Trump property in Istanbul, a favor? Yes, I suspect it might be that simple… And it certainly wouldn’t hurt that Putin also wants us out of Syria.

I hate taking Lindsey Graham seriously, given what we’ve seen from him over these past several years, but I think it’s worth noting that even the most ardent Trump supporters are sounding alarm bells over the selling-out of the Kurds. As Graham said today, this move on the part of the President will; 1) ensure the comeback of ISIS, 2) force the Kurds to align with Assad and Iran, 3) destroy Turkey’s relationship wit the U.S. Congress, and 4) stain America’s honor among our allies.

“If only Lindsey Graham had seen the warning signs earlier,” I’m thinking, “all of this might have played out differently.” Sadly, though, Trump, these past three years, has been dong such a masterful job of hiding his disdain for our allies, and his fondness for strongmen, that no one had a clue that such a thing might be possible. [#sarcasm]

Oh, by the way, this reminds of me of an exchange I had with Lindsey about a year ago on this very subject…

So, yeah, Lindsey knew exactly what was at stake, and he supported Donald Trump anyway… Ne not only continued to support him, but he said that he deserved a Nobel Prize.

Well, I guess we know where the line is, at least for Graham. It’s OK to support Trump as he threatens to destroy NATO, and cozies up to the likes of Putin. But, on the eve of a massacre, as authoritarian forces are massing against loyal allies, it’s time to speak up in hopes of absolving oneself before the photos of dead bodies start hitting the news… Good to know, right?

update: OK. Never mind. I guess I was worried over nothing. Donald Trump has come out and clarified that this wasn’t just a poorly thought-out, off-the-cuff decision, but a product of his “great and unmatched wisdom.” So I guess we can all breathe easy.

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  1. Posted October 7, 2019 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

    I mentioned my post from December of last year, when Trump first threatened to pull troops out of Syria. For those of you unwilling to follow the link, here’s an excerpt:

    …It’s no secret that Putin has long wanted the U.S. to leave Syria, where, since 2015, Russian forces have backed the brutal dictator Bashar al Assad, who, you can be sure, will step up his attacks against our Kurdish allies once we leave. As Bret Stephens of the New York Times wrote this afternoon, this is “a gift to Iran, Hezbollah, and Putin, and a shameful betrayal of our Kurdish allies,” who have been been fighting alongside us in the battle against ISIS these past several years. But it would appear that these “American allies (who) will be slaughtered,” as Ben Sasse referred to them earlier today, don’t matter all that much to Donald Trump. 

    As for what does matter to Donald Trump, once again, it would look as though he’s primarily motivated by an all-consuming desire to please Vladimir Putin, who, coincidentally, will be holding his annual press conference tomorrow in Moscow. And, as no other explanation seems to make sense as to why Donald Trump would do this today, I’m inclined to agree with Russia watcher Julia Davis when she says that this was a “gift” to Putin, who, you can be sure, will hold this American retreat up as a great victory tomorrow. [Davis wrote earlier today, upon hearing the announcement about our pulling out troops, that “champagne will be flowing at the Kremlin.”]

    Davis, for what it’s worth, isn’t just speculating here. She knows that, when Trump met with Putin in Helsinki, without any other representatives of the U.S. government present, that Putin stressed his desire to have our troops pull out of the global proxy war being waged in Syria. As Davis points out, we even have some of Putin’s notes from Helsinki, which were photographed in his hands upon leaving the meeting with Trump, which, coincidentally, sound very much like the talking points being offered by members of the administration today in Washington. [Just compare the above quote from Dana White to what Putin has written in his notes.]

    Oh, and it was also announced today that the Tump administration would be lifting sanctions on Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska, a close personal friend of Putin’s… Make of that what you will. 

  2. Posted October 7, 2019 at 8:28 pm | Permalink

    Lindsey Graham isn’t the only Republican sprouting a backbone today. Mitt Romney is also calling for a hearing.

  3. Posted October 7, 2019 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

    Oh, and Pat Robertson isn’t happy.

  4. Posted October 7, 2019 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

    I don’t that I’d consider it a silver lining, but I’m thinking that this could possibly be the final straw for Nikki Haley, the item that propels her into the 2020 race. 

  5. Jean Henry
    Posted October 7, 2019 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

    B…B…But his wisdom is great and unmatched… Waiting for DD to jump in here and tell us why pulling out of Syria just before a likely massacre by the Turks is a great idea… For peace and whatnot.

  6. Will Hurd by proxy
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 5:41 am | Permalink

    This isn’t hard – not supporting our longtime allies the Kurds means we are surrendering the Middle East to Iran, Russia and Turkey and it tells our friends that an alliance with America means nothing. Be nice with nice guys and tough with tough guys not the other way around.

  7. John Brown
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 6:32 am | Permalink

    “Mandate of Heaven” – Holy shit these morons are fucking up 21st century problems with their 15th century brains. Who coulda thunk it?

    At least Robertson might have got off the #civilwar2 train….after enthusiastically turning the country over to pootys puppet in the first place of course.

  8. Jean Henry
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 7:39 am | Permalink

    Fold in the gutting of the State Department and we are totally screwed long term… Unless we elect a non-isolationist President next go around. I honestly don’t know much about Warren and foreign policy and think I may want to look into that… We know Bernard is all for turning over Middle East foreign policy to the Saudi’s so…

  9. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 7:42 am | Permalink

    Aloha JH, Only because your mind is very confused and adled (a product of all the misinformation you have sucked up as truth) would you be waiting for such a statement from me. Endergon has been threatening ethnic cleansing of the Kurds along a 30 mile stretch of the Syrian Turkish border for months. He has made no secret that he intends to replace the Kurdish population with the Syrian refugees currently in Turkey. Many of these refugees are in fact ISSIS supporters whom Endergon has been supporting.
    JH because you only read MSM like the NY Times, you are totally ignorant of the war in Syria, and what the US has actually been doing.

    WHO benefits by the resurgence of ISSIS and the re ignition of the Syrian Civil War? We were supposed to begin joint policing of the border to ensure security for both Syria and Turkey—the US sabotaged that plan.

    The Syrian Kurds, who have never joined the war against the Syrian state and the Assad regime need to let Syrian and Russian forces defend the Syrian borders with Turkey. The only reason the Kurds have not reached a raprochment with Assad is because of our evil influence on the region.

    If you were not a total tool of the military security establishment you might actually have a clue. This is Trump trying to make nicey nice with the CIA, who along with the house of Saud and Endergon have been the biggest supporters of ISSIS.

    When Trump announced his plans last December, it was Tulsi who brought Kurdish leaders to the State of the Union address with the express purpose of pressuring Trump to think of the Kurds. Instead of using the last 9 months to facilitate a rapprochement among Syrians we have persisted in our evil misplaced strategy of regime change in Syria—Trumps latest moves are just a continuation of that CIA policy.

  10. Jean Henry
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 7:52 am | Permalink

    Yes, DD– That explains why this was the line in the sand that Trump crossed that has finally turned the GOP establishment against him.

  11. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 8:03 am | Permalink

    Aloha, Like you, they just read the NY Times and are just as clueless. Some time next week you might find the NY Times covering this,


  12. Jean Henry
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 8:04 am | Permalink

    “But if the S.D.F.’s hold on northeastern Syria weakens, it could make it easier for Mr. Assad and his Russian and Iranian backers to reclaim the territory. An open conflict with Turkey could siphon Kurdish fighters to the front lines, allowing ISIS remnants to reassert themselves elsewhere.”

    ““Bottom line: Trump tonight after one call with a foreign leader provided a gift to Russia, Iran, and ISIS,” Brett McGurk, a former presidential envoy who pushed for the partnership with the S.D.F. wrote on Twitter on Sunday.”

    Looks like you are getting your wish DD. Let’s see how it pans out for the Kurds from our over-stuffed armchairs..

  13. Jean Henry
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 8:08 am | Permalink

    I’m confused how yet another brash foreign policy decision prompted by a phone conversation with a manipulative strong arm leader from a totalitarian state somehow aligns with CIA objectives, DD? I’m also confused about how a decision likely to produce exactly the outcome you hope for is a reflection of CIA objectives? Lastly I think you give Trump WAY too much credit for strategic thinking. He is impulsive and easily manipulated and has gone rogue.

  14. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 8:09 am | Permalink

    Aloha, JH and other deluded folks actually think the US is a force for good in the world, rather than a transnational actor that relies upon generating as much chaos as possible in order to pursue its agenda. The Democrats and Republicans are united in the desire for regime change in Russia and in light of that objective, reigniting the Syrian war (particularly as we are having our asses handed to us in Afghanistan) is essential. The US needs Russia bogged down in a war of attrition in Syria—the only way that can happen is by bringing new life to ISSIS. Endergon will do that for the US.

  15. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 8:17 am | Permalink

    Aloha JH, “He is impulsive and easily manipulated and has gone rogue.” Agreed, where is Pompeo on this? How about Gina, head of the CIA? How about Joe Mcguire, head of National Intelligence—don’t see any of them saying this is a bad idea. Who do you believe is “manipulating” Trump—Endergon, Putin. They have nothing to give him. The intelligence community can make this whole impeachment thing pretty much disappear. Give the Republicans the rest of the day, and they will rally behind the Leader.

  16. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 8:21 am | Permalink

    Aloha, Juan Cole actually has a clue. Of course the MSM banned him from being a commentator years ago–can’t have dissenting opinions aired when we are molding consent for our regime change efforts, now can we.


  17. Jean Henry
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    Juan Cole offers an alternative projection from Brett Mckurk’s, though he acknowledges he doesn’t have access to the same information.

    “So does Russia benefit from more Turkish influence in northern Syria? No. Essentially Trump is allowing Turkey to create a long enclave along the northeast border from which it will ethnically cleanse the Kurds and then send a million of its Sunni Arab refugees into their villages to occupy them permanently. This population will be a Turkish cat’s paw and a wedge against the Kurds in the long term.

    Russia doesn’t benefit. Russia wants ultimately to put all of Syria back under al-Assad’s rule, and another Turkish invasion is the last thing Moscow wants.

    So what about Iran? I can’t see that this move affects Iran one way or another. The Washington hawks have long hoped to use the Syrian Kurds, and the US presence in eastern Syria, to block Iranian personnel and arms from being trucked to Syria from Iraq. McGurk may know something I don’t, but in my view this Big Think blockade was always completely implausible. It is a long border, and Iraqi allies of Iran control one side of it. The Kurds have often been pro-Iranian and in any case I very much doubt they would be willing to be deployed in this way by the Americans. Iranian presence if anything has grown since President Obama first sent US spec ops into Syria.”

    The video linked at the bottom is worth watching.


    It seems, DD, that you don’t support this withdrawal by the US. Is that correct? If so what would you have preferred. What does Tulsi who supports the Kurds have to say about all of this? How would she have handled it?

  18. Jean Henry
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    Ha! We linked the same article. Nothing by Cole about the CIA prompting of this move by Trump however.

  19. Jean Henry
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 8:30 am | Permalink

    DD– why do you refer to the female head of the CIA, Gina Haspel, by her first name and Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo by his last?

  20. EOS
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 8:41 am | Permalink

    The Kurds live in Iraq, Turkey and Syria. They are a distinct people group who want autonomy. They helped us in Iraq and they helped us in Syria in the hopes that we could establish an autonomous nation for the Kurds. Unfortunately, we don’t own Middle East land to give them.

    We don’t like Syria (who is a puppet or Iran) but we don’t have the moral authority to destroy their nation. The majority are Sunni but the president is allied with the Shia, and the civil war currently being fought has Sunni/Shia dimensions, as well as other issues.

    Turkey is in NATO even though they are a nation of increasingly radicalized Muslims and who want to destroy the Kurds because they fear a revolt will annex part of their country to form a Kurdish nation. The Muslims in Turkey are 80% Sunni and there is a strong influence of the Muslim Brotherhood.

    Iraq forced the Kurds to the northernmost border to isolate them from the rest of the country, but this puts them at the Turkish border, which only exacerbates Turkey’s fear of takeover. Erdogan is trapped between the Iranian controlled Iraq and Syria. He needs to appease Iran as the major military force in the region, but too much appeasement angers the Muslim Brotherhood, who threaten a coup.

    Short of a massive airlift of Kurds to America, how do we help the Kurds? Our military involvement sucks us into the millenial wars of the Islamic sects. What are our responsibilities, what is the end goal, and how can our involvement help?

  21. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    Aloha, I just remember his name is Mike (?) couldn’t remember Gina’s last name. I had to look up who was head of National Intelligence so I found out his first and last name. Nothing neferious or sexist, just the holes in swiss cheese for brains showing.

    My position is the same as it was last December. The Kurds need to reach an agreement with Assad. They will not get the autonomy they want, but, they now have deep rooted egalitarian democratic local institutions. Assad lacks the capability of removing them. As part of a unitary Syria the Kurds can demonstrate a new way forward for the whole country. More and more Kurds are coming to this position–read the article I posted from almarsdar news. We could of course provide heavy weapons and anti-aircraft weapons to the YPG–that might make Endergon thinks twice–but in the years of our involvement in Syria we have wanted to keep the Kurds dependent on the US—not very friendly in my mind.

    If I was a foreigner who was not part of a local oligarchic elite, being an ally with the US would be the last thing I would want.

  22. Jean Henry
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 8:53 am | Permalink

    “If I was a foreigner who was not part of a local oligarchic elite, being an ally with the US would be the last thing I would want.”

    Well that’s certainly true now.

    So you support this move by Trump? I’m still unclear. You seem to be demanding something of the Kurd’s and Assad. But what would you like the US to do besides arm the YPG?

    Also if we arm the YPG are you at all worried about those arms flowing through to ISIS as has happened when we armed the Syrian rebels but did not supply adequate back up?

  23. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 8:53 am | Permalink

    Aloha, EOS demonstrates s/he has about as much knowledge of International affairs as his/her understanding of our progressive income tax system.

    Tulsi says she will be coming out with a statement concerning the announced US withdrawl.

    I believe Tulsi would handle it by sitting down with Assad, Putin, Endergon, Rouhani and whom ever runs Iraq now. There are thousands of ISSIS fighters that must some how be dealt with. There are millions of refugees that must be allowed to return home. These problems will only be resolved through diplomacy. Under our current regime we have done nothing to address these problems, because there is a bi-partisan consensus in favor of war and regime change. With those as US objectives there is no solution.

  24. Jean Henry
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    PS I would suggest the holes in you brain are very selective and telling.

    I know mine are.

  25. Jean Henry
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    “I believe Tulsi would handle it by sitting down with Assad, Putin, Endergon, Rouhani and whom ever runs Iraq now.” — You and Tulsi seem to have forgotten about the Kurds now that they are of no use as props. So basically what you propose is that the leaders of various Middle Eastern States come together to decide the fates of the Kurds without them there?? But the US is the imperial state? Yalta worked out great BTW.

  26. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    Aloha JH, you must be ignorant of the Meo tribe (1975) or Hungarian (1956) freedom fighters or the Iraqi shias and Kurds (1981). Our foreign policy is all about manipulating local grievances for the advancement of US objectives.

    “Also if we arm the YPG are you at all worried about those arms flowing through to ISIS as has happened when we armed the Syrian rebels but did not supply adequate back up?” No, not at all. Arming ISSIS was done by the CIA utilizing Turkey, the Saud’s, and Quatar. The “Syrian rebels” were largely controlled by jihadi, takfiri muslims who we armed and became ISSIS.

    You might try reading Max Blumenthal’s investigating reporting on the arming of ISSIS. His latest book “Management of Savagery” might help you understand the Syrian civil war better.

  27. John Brown
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    Syria and the Kurds can obviously be viewed from multiple lenses. BUT, WTF is the deal with withdrawing from The Open Skies Treaty???? That can’t be interpreted as anything but a gift to pooty from his ruskie stooge. And its not even x-mas yet….

  28. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    Aloha JH, Are you in favor of an Independent Kurdistan encompassing the traditional areas in Turkey, Syria, Iran and Iraq? If so then you are in favor of world war. If not, but want to help the Kurds, then dialog is the only way forward.

    Not a big fan of Yalta (we sold out Poland big time–left them out of my list since I was just doing post WWII), but Yalta did bring about peace in Europe–a place that had seen two horrific wars in the span of 20 years. It was not until we stupidly endorsed the dismemberment of Yugoslavia by joining with Germany in recognizing Slovenia (1991) that war returned to Europe (easy for you to forget that 10 year war that the US supported).

  29. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 9:20 am | Permalink

    Aloha JB, How are those payments going JB–do they come regular or just by the post?

    Withdrawing form the Big Sky Treaty, the INF treaty, the ABM treaty are all part and parcel of building up the new cold war. Can’t get the US taxpayers to support a Trillion dollar nuclear build up if we don’t have active enemies, can we.

  30. Jean Henry
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    Max Blumenthal, son of Sidney Blumenthal?? Well that’s interesting… I will check out.

    To be clear, DD, I was active opposing every invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. I’m not a fan of the work of the CIA. I’m not naive. I also am not naive about how shitty other super powers are and I very much believe we have an obligation to the Middle East to help clean up the mess we made v withdraw entirely. I would LOVE for a diplomatic answer to emerge. With a gutted state department right now that seems unlikely. We also have betrayed any limited trust any group will ever have with us, first by the Kerry-Obama laissez faire approach to Syria and now with our treatment of the Kurds . Trump cozying up to Putin and North Korea doesn’t help much either.

  31. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 10:03 am | Permalink

    Aloha JH, the only way a diplomatic solution will “emerge” is by engaging in diplomacy. (By the way Syria, Turkey, Iraq, Russia, and Iran have been meeting to try to figure out a diplomatic solution). Our US foreign policy has ceased doing that. Obama was caught between his own rhetoric about “American Exceptionalism” and the Real politic that needed to occur. He did a much better job than Trump (who is the weakest President in my life time–weaker than Ford even). Obama was able to utilize the Defense Dept. as an effective counter weight to the CIA, but he never even tried to reign in the lawless CIA/National Intelligence system.

    JH, you forget that there is only one super power–that is the essence of American Exceptionalism isn’t it, and why the US thinks it can dictate terms.

    Meanwhile the Democratic Party will make hero’s out of the CIA “whistle-blower” agents in the White House while continuing to demonize Assange, Manning, Snowden, Winner, Kiriakou, Klein and the rest who have informed us on the lawless criminal actions of the CIA and the NSA.

  32. Posted October 8, 2019 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    From CommonDreams.com

    ‘The Tide Has Shifted’: New Poll Shows Nearly 60% of Americans Support Trump Impeachment Inquir


  33. John Brown
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    DD, why don’t you ask the Ukrainians if Ruskie military threat is real or just a cold war fantasy? Pooty must love your so called “takes” on geopolitical events.

  34. Jean Henry
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    DD– I don’t believe there is only one super power internationally. I don’t think that stus is only measured by military firepower. I think Russia and China have made that clear lately. I understand very well the need to point to just the US as the problem. It’s a convenient point of view. I don’t think Tulsi is an isolationist and I sense a fight shift in your perspective on that given a candidate you trust. My guess is we agree on a lot more than you think. I’m uninterested in ideology around foreign policy. I’m interested in preventing further harm to humans (no preference to one kind or another) given current FP realities. I also believe strongly in diplomatic solutions even when partnering with assholes. I don’t believe one bit in American exceptionalism of any variety – that we are a Unique force for global good or a force for global evil. I believe we have a global responsibility because that’s where we have placed ourselves globally. I don’t believe walking away from that responsibility will cause peace and harmony to break out globally.

    I will check out Max Blumenthal. It is hard to take your positions on the CIA seriously because you are a 9-11 truther. I understand outsized suspicion of the CIA but 9-11 as a. I side job makes no sense at all. They could have attacked Nebraska and had the same impact.(justification for war). There’s no possibility a collective of those in power and underlings would attack wall street to create that justification. It just doesn’t mane any sense at all if you study abuses of power and how they operate. If Blumenthal proves reasonable, informed and not aN pit of control conspiracist (hard covering the CIA), I would be happy to read his book.

    I think you and I simply disagree on how to best rise to and manage America’s unfortunate responsibility as a global super power.

  35. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    Aloha JB, I do my putin puppet best. If I remember right, it was our Ambassador Nuland who ok’ed the Nazi coup against the elected legitimate government of Ukraine. It was the Nazi coup government that announced it was kicking the Russian Navy out of Sevastopol Crimea (a region that was only united with Ukraine under the evil Commies in 1955) that caused the crises that has led to the Ukraine civil war. The annexation of Crimea has saved millions of Russians and Ukrainians from ethnic cleansing by the Uko-Nazi’s. The bulk of Ukrainians rejected our boy Porshenko in favor of Zelenskyy (who is making nicey nice with my pal Putin.) It is called making peace–some thing that American Exceptionalist just don’t get.

  36. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    Aloha JH, You totally misread the “truther” movement. I don’t believe the BS conspiracy theory that is the “Official” narrative. We know that Saudi individuals (and perhaps Saudi intelligence) gave huge financial support to the alleged perpetrators. We know that the co-chairs of the official commission have publicly stated that the CIA and FBI refused to co-operate fully with their investigation. The “Truthers” want a real investigation. They want to tear down the secret state that refuses to divulge all the perpetrators of that attack.

    “The chair and vice chair of the 9/11 Commission, respectively Thomas Kean and Lee Hamilton, assert in their book, Without Precedent, that they were “set up to fail” and were starved of funds to do a proper investigation. They also confirm that they were denied access to the truth and misled by senior officials in the Pentagon and the federal aviation authority; and that this obstruction and deception led them to contemplate slapping officials with criminal charges.”

    I do not know who attacked us on Sept. 11, 2001 and neither do you. I want the truth to come out.

  37. Jean Henry
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    Oh I think we know who attacked us and why. Hatred of the US in the Middle East should no longer come as any surprise. The Bush administration desire to control oil reserves as ‘spoils of war’ is also well understood. (THAT didn’t work out.)

    My understanding of the 9-11 Commissioner’s objections wa that they were blocked by government bureaucracy including intelligence agencies from going deeper into the attacker’s motivation and government failures to prevent the attack not who attacked us. My feeling is the disaster was the result of multi-level failures to take the risk seriously or heed many warnings. The Bush administration, CIA and FBI were embarrassed by their failure and so they were covering up crew ups, not a plot. On what basis do you imagine the CIA or FBI knew about the pending attack and let it happen or that they were somehow involved in the attack?

    Related, did you here the Cambridge Analytica whistle blower interview on Fresh Air today? It turns out, ironically, that belief in conspiracy theories is among the top indicator that a person is vulnerable to manipulation by foreign bots. Your outrage and skepticism of our government’s institutions makes the truth more difficult to discern. While I very much understand the frustrations of the Commissioners who were seeking to prevent more attacks and improve US foreign policy, we don’t need to have all the facts to come to some reasonable understanding of the motivation for the 9-11 attack and the separate motivations behind the Bush admin’s eagerness to go into Afghanistan and Iraq.

  38. John Brown
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

    Dolt, you’re obviously ignorant of the centuries long struggle of the ethnic ukrainians trying to gain independence from Nazis, Ruskies, Poles, Austrians, etc. (Thought I’d try your “ignorant” opener out on you) What about Donbass? Its full of colonizing ethnic Russians and pooty uses that as rational to conquer it? He’s doing old school conquering. Hell it wasn’t that long ago by Ukraine standards that Michigan was Ojibway so….

    When should we go back to to say that we’ll stick with these lines on the map and allow self determination?

    Ruskies in Ukraine need to stop being ruskie and become ukrainians and stop enabling pootys imperialism.

  39. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, JH, Cambridge Analytica, really! Do you know anything about this organization?

    JB, would love to get together and talk Ukrainian and slavic history. The Donbass has been ethnically Russian for a hundred years. “Ukrainian nationalism” has a long and troubled history. Many Ukrainians are mixed, Russsian, Polish, Belorussian, Lithiuanian, Tartar, and German. Ukraine’s original meaning is “Borderland”. That is why historically it is called “The Ukraine”. Historically (ie. 16th-18th. century) “Ukrainian” nationalist were the Cossacks. They were not an “ethnicity” but rather warrior settlers given various “privileges” to keep the Tartars and Turks from attacking Poland and Russia. Ultimately the Cossacks became tools of the Czars (much to their shame).
    Nationalism as a Ukrainian phenomina is really tied to the world wide socialist movements of the 19th. century. Just as Polish nationalism was fueled by Socialist so was Ukrainian nationalism (all ultimately driven by anti-czarism and anti-absolutism).

    Ukraine has historically been divided between the Galician Ukraine (west of the Dniper that was part of Poland, Hungry and Romania) and the Ukraine that was east of the Dniper and was part of Czarist Russia. The greatest 20th. century Ukrainian, Nestor Makno hailed from the east (the movement named after him was much like today’s Kurds). The Western Ukraine vomited up various scum who fought with the Nazi’s—these are the heros of your buddies the Azov Brigade. Like I said, would love to talk. Tower Inn is close?

  40. wobblie
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    Just had an experience that encapsulates much of the rot that is 21st. Century America. Was at the UM Credit Union that is in the EMU Student Center. While standing there I looked over at the guy next to me and saw he was packing a semi-automatic handgun. I looked at him again and saw he was not uniformed. I informed the clerk that there was a man who was openly carrying a fire arm. She was totally clueless as to what I was saying. I accosted the man/child about openly carrying in a bank within an educational institution. He responded “It is concealed”. Just how stupid is that. I’m looking at his gun and he maintains that it is concealed–and this is some one who is evidently a college student.— I called the EMU Police to inform them. The dispatch operator did not know there was a bank in the student center. Our culture is doomed. I am beginning to think it is hopeless.

  41. Sad
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    You just have to roll with Wobblie.

    Otherwise it would be depressing.

    Mayor Pete might be able to turn things around.

    Or at least right the ship.

  42. iRobert
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    I can relate, wobblie. I have had similarly ridiculous experiences in recent years. Shit is hitting the fan.

  43. Sad
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

    It’s the end of the world.

    Lighten up you two.


  44. John Brown
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    Dolt, thanks for the Uki Wikipedia. At Dibrova Lake Ukrainian Camp in Brighton the crew from the Self Reliance Credit Union are decidedly anti-ruski and anti-nazi. Anyone with historical Nazi proclivities was gossiped about and Jews seemed welcome. But just like here, in Ukraine there’s a community of forward looking people who want to make a cool democratic place to live without getting jerked around. And as usual the biggest jerk in the hood is ole pooty.

    Maybe you should be his Rudy Giuliani and go to the UN with an appeal to take over all the parts of Ukraine that Ruskies have managed to establish an ethnic plurality. You’re already on the payroll after all.

  45. iRobert
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

    I blame Sad for how shitty everything has gotten.

  46. John Brown
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    Everyone, you are right to call shit on anyone not concealed carrying undetectably in a normal civil setting. It’s legal, but we can still stigmatize it until we can ban it. Any legit training would have covered the social responsibility not to scare people. Plus, duh, who da fuck takes a visible gun to a bank besides a cop or a robber.

    I’d probably stick to some aggressive side eye, with out too much commentary. But tell the manager and cops, hell yeah.

  47. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    Fauxcahontas/Blinton 2020: You heard it here first. Only two women can save the globalist plan to destroy America from certain failure at the dastardly do-gooder Donald J. Trump and his minions.

  48. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    *at the little orange hands of the dastardly…

  49. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

    Aloha JB, I pretty much think of folks and their guns as fetish worshipers. The only real purpose a gun has is to kill. You can make up all sorts of other excuses–but it is to kill. The gun totter wants to think they will protect people—but just like with any other fetish, it is not about you or I, it is all about making them self feel good.
    Two teenagers have been murdered in gun violence in my neighborhood this summer–to be a “man” you have to be packing don’t ya know.
    The gun culture is directly tied to our need to keep the country militarized and prepared to go and do your Warrior duty. After all, none of these guns have done jack shit to keep the government from running rough shod over most of our civil rights—do you engage in regular military training JB? If so, then you know that your guns only purpose is to kill other humans. I prefer persuasion, though I know I am miserable at it, it beats killing, or preparing myself to kill.

  50. iRobert
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    Guns are also good for persuading, DD. People have used them to persuade other people into doing, or not doing, all sorts of things.

  51. John Brown
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

    I agree 100% that American gun culture is a horrible sickness fomented by the man, keeping everyone down fighting amongst themselves. When we should all strive for cooperation and community.

    But this perverse evangelical/AR15/fascist collabo justifies some response potential. And the govt is exponentially paralysed by infiltration of military industrial complex.

  52. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

    Aloha iRobert, I understand intimidation ie. the threat I will kill you. There are three possible responses. 1) Be intimidated and give the gun thug his way (never seen a female gun thug). 2) Arm yourself and be like JB–on the streets this leads to shoot outs–like the one on Ballard and Cross St. a couple of weeks ago and 3) Tell them to fuck off.
    In my personal life I have relied upon 1 and 3. Only psychopaths kill without cause and none of the above will save you. Letting a gun thug know that you are not going to be intimidated can really put a guy off. Most people are not prepared to murder, they just want to intimidate.
    Paid gun thugs (police come to mind) are not to be messed with. That is why they wear uniforms and are supposed to identify themselves. Always give them what they want–they have become desensitized and even think they can come into your home and murder you. You, JB or my packing a gun will not change that dynamic.
    Most likely use of a hand gun is killing yourself, killing some one you love or collecting dust.
    Good people carrying guns does nothing to stop bad folks from using them.

    See where Tulsi was at 6% in a Wisconsin poll
    Warren 23%
    Sanders 17%
    Biden 9%
    Gabbard 6%
    Buttigieg 5%
    Yang 4%
    Harris 2%

    Change research

  53. iRobert
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 7:48 pm | Permalink

    DD: “Good people carrying guns does nothing to stop bad folks from using them.”

    You haven’t spent much time in Montana, Alaska, Texas or such places, have you?”

  54. Posted October 8, 2019 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

    From David Ignatius:

  55. iRobert
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

    I can also think of a lot note than 3 possible responses to someone using a gun to intimidate.

    Also, and it’s just plain false to say “psychopaths kill without cause and none of the above will save you.” There are many examples of when a psychopath was stopped by a civilian with a gun.

    I’m going to want to see some statistic supporting your statement that the “Most likely use of a hand gun is killing yourself, killing some one you love or collecting dust.” Unless you’re saying guns mostly end up collecting dust. Is that your out?

    I’d be willing to place a wager against your

  56. Jean Henry
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

    DD– women have been an active part of the open carry movement for a long time. A woman in my home town became famous for open carrying at her 5 year old daughter soccer game 15 years ago. It didn’t end well for her as you can see. Her husband shot her and then himself with their three kids in the house. Her gun was hanging on a hook by the door in it’s holster.


    People my age remember taking their rifles on the bus to Pioneer high school to participate in the rifle squad there. None of this is new. The guns are more deadly. The country is more divided.

    Curious DD what you meant by your Cambridge Analytica comment. I thought I knew a lot. What am I missing?

  57. iRobert
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 8:03 pm | Permalink

    I’m reminded that this thread is about the Kurds being abandoned by Trump outvof the blue.

    I should probably find a gun thread to post my gun comments.

  58. Jean Henry
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

    ”…I’m also told that Turkish attack appears coordinated with the Russians. Russian-backed forces are mobilizing to invade the Kurdish area from the south — towards Tabqa and other spots. Meanwhile, ISIS is mobilizing sleeper cells in Raqqa and attacks have taken place tonight.”
    So much for the Russians helping out the Kurds or a ’diplomatic sokution’ from Syria, Turkey And Russia I guess.

    It’s amazing that someone so cynical can be so naive at the same time.

  59. Jean Henry
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    Robert- lecturing about staying on point is a bit ironic from you, no?

  60. iRobert
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    I pray that the joint chiefs explain to Trump how stupid it is to abandon the Kurds. He seems to need even the simplest things explained to him, over and over.

  61. iRobert
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

    Are you drunk again tonight, Jean? I wasn’t lecturing. I clearly said I was the one that shouldn’t continue to stray off topic. Unless you think I was lecturing myself, what are you talking about? Lay off the booze, Jean.

  62. iRobert
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

    Wires saying Turks to cross border “shortly” (30 mins ago). All over Twitter too.

  63. iRobert
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

    Sunrise in Syria is right now, 06:34 GMT+3

  64. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 8, 2019 at 11:50 pm | Permalink

    Removing 50 to 100 troops is “abandoning the Kurds”. Whaah! The never-ending wars are ending! Bad Twump.

  65. Jean Henry
    Posted October 9, 2019 at 3:48 am | Permalink

    Robert– I don’t read what you say carefully. I apologize. I should refrain from criticism if in not going to pay close attention. Not drunk; just easily distracted. I haven’t been properly drunk in three years. Probably should remedy that some time soon instead of wasting time here.

  66. Jean Henry
    Posted October 9, 2019 at 3:50 am | Permalink

    Once again for DD:

    Curious DD what you meant by your Cambridge Analytica comment. I thought I knew a lot. What am I missing?

  67. iRobert
    Posted October 9, 2019 at 6:55 am | Permalink

    From Aljazeera:

    Turkish military, rebels to cross Syrian border ‘shortly’


  68. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 9, 2019 at 7:23 am | Permalink

    aloha JH, Only spent one second looking up problems with Cambridge Analytica

  69. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 9, 2019 at 7:37 am | Permalink

    Aloha iRobert, I found this web site to be very interesting. Number 16 addresses your “Montana, Alaska, Texas or such places” comment.


    My comments about guns, should be modified some–I am really speaking of handguns. And yes, iRobert, my comments about guns only having three purposes is truncated. I suppose they can be used as a hammer in a pinch.

    When I represented folks for UI benefits I had several cases involving men and their guns. My favorite was the Iraq war veteran who was working as a Brinks armored car guard. He just got himself a new Glock 9mm and wanted to show it off. Now you would think that a trained armed guard (we give these guys policing powers) who also had spent time in the military would know basic gun safety, (and I’m sure he did, but). He pulled the clip out, but he failed to ensure that the breech was empty when he handed it to his co-worker. Gun discharged (he failed to check the safety as well). They were in the back of the armored car when this happened, out side a bank. The ricocheting in the truck evidently sounded like multiple gun shots. Folks in the bank were terrified. Thousands of dollars spent on police response etc.
    Don’t even get me started on my buddies back in the 70’s and 80’s who thought it was great to play with their guns while dropping acid.
    MEN with guns do really stupid things.

  70. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 9, 2019 at 7:45 am | Permalink

    Aloha, For those who want close to real time news of events in Rojava


    Only some of the post will be in English, but machine translations give you the gist of what is happening. Evidently Issis, stared carrying out attacks last night behind the YPG lines–The YPG sent its forces to the border area to confront the Turks.

    Off to do my Wednesday picketing–find a line and give the resistance some encouragement.

  71. iRobert
    Posted October 9, 2019 at 8:55 am | Permalink

    The states with the highest gun ownership per 100,000 residents, like Alaska, Wyoming, and Montana, also see the highest number of gun deaths per 100,000 residents.”

    Wow, what a revelation!

    I’m willing to bet the states with the most horses per capita also see the most horse-related deaths also.

  72. iRobert
    Posted October 9, 2019 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    DD, I am in favor of thoughtful legislation which keeps guns out of the hands of criminals, the insane, and stupid people.

    However, i am not in favor of meaningless statements which have the affect of fooling dumb people into believing they’re reading a logical argument.

    I also take your response as a “no” to my question as to whether you’ve spent much time in states such as Montana, Texas, Wyoming, Alaska, etc.

  73. Posted October 9, 2019 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    From CBS News:

    Turkey launches airstrikes on northern Syria after Trumps pulls back U.S. troops


  74. Jean Henry
    Posted October 9, 2019 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    DD– the interview I heard was with Christopher Wren who has written a book. You misunderstood my post. When Cambridge Analytica, under Steve Bannon, started harvesting data to find targets for disinformation, they found those who believe in conspiracy theories to be the easiest to manipulate and influence. That’s you.

  75. Jean Henry
    Posted October 9, 2019 at 11:11 am | Permalink

    HW and EOS might want to check out Fresh Air today as they are tracing the source of the Biden story misinformation to Peter Schweizer and Steve Bannon. They also went after HRC producing the book Clinton Cash.

    I know I know you guys think you are immune to manipulation. That’s why you are so easily manipulated.

  76. Jean Henry
    Posted October 9, 2019 at 11:13 am | Permalink

    Ps the primary target of ClintonCash was not conservatives like HW and EOS but progressive liberals like most of the rest of you here. Newsflash: It worked.

  77. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 9, 2019 at 5:47 pm | Permalink


  78. iRobert
    Posted October 9, 2019 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

    “Not my president!”


  79. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 10, 2019 at 8:15 am | Permalink

    What did Schweizer write that is incorrect? What exactly do you think is misinfo?

  80. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 10, 2019 at 8:24 am | Permalink

    Aloha, Tulsi takes the gloves off. Considering boycotting debate because of rigging by DNC and MSM.


  81. John Brown
    Posted October 10, 2019 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    The ruskie stooge terrorist-in-chief will have the brown shirt thug Oathkeepers brandishing guns, I mean providing security, at his Minneapolis Nuremberg today.


  82. Lynne
    Posted October 10, 2019 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

    LOL, I totally think Gabbard should boycott the debate!

  83. John Brown
    Posted October 11, 2019 at 7:02 am | Permalink

    Tulsi’s threat to boycott is just foreshadowing a third party run as the pootin backed disruptor that she is.

  84. John Brown
    Posted October 11, 2019 at 7:54 am | Permalink

    Crazy Rudy’s “associates” ran companies called Fraud Guarantee and Mafia Rave. So not only did pooty interfere in our election through currupt GOP, but he’s orchestrating the reveal to color them as the most hilariously ignorant morons in the history of politics. But what does Q say (wink wink)!

  85. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 11, 2019 at 7:57 am | Permalink

    That’s right J Bro! It couldn’t possibly be that Tulsi is pulling a little stunt to get a conversation going about actual Dem corruption. No way. That would be ridiculous. She is not a disruptor in that sense at all. Tulsi is a disruptor in the sense that she is really a Russian agent being paid to tell lies inorder to steal votes from the eventual Dem candidate to hand Trump the election. I mean everyone from CNN to MSNBC have insinuated as much. It’s so obvious.


  86. John Brown
    Posted October 11, 2019 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    After agent orange is “strung up” (electric chair or firing squad also acceptable) it will be revealed that his thining hair conceals a tattoo that says “pooty was here”. His support will nonetheless hold strong at 38%.

    Dumbass fool trumptards who couldn’t see this corrupt treason from a mile away should be forever required to wear a scarlet “t” as a reminder of their stupidity.

  87. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 11, 2019 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    You speak the truth J Bro. First we take power back and then we brand 20,520,000 Americans with a “T” tattoo on each one of those stupid foreheads. The only question is what is the fastest route to getting our power back. I liked your idea of taking voting rights away from Christians! Electric chairs and lynching seems much less elegant in my opinion. But I will follow whatever you route you think is the best, J Bro. Just count me in. I trust your wisdom and book smarts, Bro.

    Forever united in Swalwellidarity!

  88. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 11, 2019 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    38% of 53 million.


  89. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 11, 2019 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    I am sorry everything is not as obvious to me like it is to you J Bro. So, I have to ask another dumb question: Is the “T” for “Trump” or “Tulsi”? Or Both?

  90. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 11, 2019 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    Trumptard/ Tulsitard?

  91. John Brown
    Posted October 11, 2019 at 9:29 am | Permalink

    Dude, you get the first scarlet t brand, with a red hot iron…

    But if you want to propose a serious way to reconcile the country after admitting being part of the gullible minority to enable a treasonous sabotage of American democracy, I’m listening…

  92. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 11, 2019 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    Did I say something wrong? I was just supporting your good ideas Bro. Jean put me on the right path weeks ago when she informed me I was getting duped by HW’s brainwashing cult.

  93. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 11, 2019 at 9:40 am | Permalink

    You couldn’t be more ironic. We are witnessing the greatest mass treason event in history and you are siding with the perpe-traitors. Not only that but you try to bring down others for what you do. From my point of view that’s about the lowest you can get in life barring actually doing what your champions do.

  94. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 11, 2019 at 10:22 am | Permalink

    Don’t listen to HW. You make perfect sense to men J Bro. I think it is perfectly reasonable, once you get back in power, that you would want to brand peoples foreheads that did not vote for candidate in 2016.

    By the way, I am wondering how Mrs Bro likes your contributions to the site? You should invite her on if you have not already.

  95. Jean Henry
    Posted October 12, 2019 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    “What did Schweizer write that is incorrect? What exactly do you think is misinfo?”


  96. Jean Henry
    Posted October 12, 2019 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    DD— Attacking election integrity is a classic populist tactic to energize failing campaigns.

    Of course the mainstream media is also not covering this story because they are bought in too. How exactly? Doesn’t matter because attacking information that doesn’t confirm our narratives is effective populism too.

    The only hedge against being manipulated by outrage bliss is relying on news sources that uphold basic journalistic standards. And yes, there are organizations checking that they meett those standards all the time. See media matters link above.

    But go ahead and believe a politician over the media…

  97. Jean Henry
    Posted October 12, 2019 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    Tulsi has been soliciting campaign donations in order to get on the debate stage and now she’s boycotting??
    And she has no real argument????
    Bernie 2016?
    The debates are reality TV??? (Duh)

    I wonder what is really going on.
    All she has done is shown she’s a big a manipulative shitter as the rest of them. It’s just the nature of politicians and the political system. They can’t be honest. I like Tulsi but this is some gamesmanship positioned as righteous anger.
    Is Steve Bannon running her campaign now?

  98. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 12, 2019 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    I said “what exactly” not “how do you generally feel”

  99. Jean Henry
    Posted October 12, 2019 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    HW— the list is endless. And I gave you the list. I made a generality and backed it up with a broad general reference re just how much Peter Schweizer is full of shit.

    I don’t take orders from you. Your desperate need to be right (and for me to be wrong) weakens your case.

    Here’s some fun: Tell me specifically why these 43 new allegations of sexual abuse by the President are fraudulent. Please remember I asked for specifics.


  100. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 12, 2019 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    Let me spell it out for you: what exactly do you think he said about Clinton or Biden that is incorrect? You always always always make claims and can’t back them up worth shit. All you do is choose a shitty article to hide behind that you can’t even talk about intelligently.

  101. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 12, 2019 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    “I don’t take orders from you.”

    You have in fact been influenced by my writing though. I’ve noticed you subconsciously ape my writing style often now. Your memory is so poor you forget it was me who said something and then later you emulate it!

  102. Jean Henry
    Posted October 12, 2019 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

    Dude— I gave you a link with Multiple links with endless examples about just Clinton. You want to argue specifics then write the authors. I’m
    Not playing. Schweitzer is a con man and a political hack not a journalist.

  103. Jean Henry
    Posted October 12, 2019 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    ‘ I’ve noticed you subconsciously ape my writing style often now. Your memory is so poor you forget it was me who said something and then later you emulate it!’

    HW your ego knows no bounds.

    Everyone else— if I start to sound like HW, shoot me.

    I’ve been writing daily at length for most of my No semi long life, HW. I have a style of writing. It’s mine. And no you have not influenced it.

    You don’t have any power over me at all. You are a joke. A bad one. Tiresome. I never think of you except in the moment of reading one of your posts. I think of you the way one does an annoying fly. You don’t even have the power of a mosquito. In the moment I may react, then you are gone.

    I’m sure you feel the same about me. Let’s keep it that way.

  104. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 12, 2019 at 10:31 pm | Permalink

    I don’t want power over you; whatever that means. What use would that be? You have destroyed your own integrity with countless lies I have exposed. Even if I never had pointed out one of them you would still be fucked in reality.

    Do you cheat at solitaire? Kind of cheating yourself, aren’t you? Same thing when you lie. If there is no one around to call out the lie you pretend to be correct but deep down you know it’s a lie because you can’t answer proper questions about it. I do not understand how you think you can diminish me with nothing but a shitty attitude and a track record of constantly being wrong.

  105. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 13, 2019 at 12:27 am | Permalink

    I had a look at that article you tried to pass off as an answer to my question. They didn’t even try to debunk one thing he wrote about Hillary or mention Biden at all. It’s so easy to do this shit. I hardly have to do anything. I just let you go and you paint yourself into a corner over and over again without ever learning! It’s weird. Even animals learn what to do and not do after a while based on experience.

  106. Jean Henry
    Posted October 13, 2019 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    Click the links HW… It was a link to an aggregate of articles that debunk Schweitzer’s reporting in detail. Many of them. You are a willful ignoramus.

  107. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 13, 2019 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    With all your false claims of debunking you are going to have to do more than just claim it again. Even if some are true how do you think it has any effect on what he wrote about Hillary and Joe? You go farther than making false claims: you try to trash others who tell the truth. You are such a dumbass you thought you could do that to me!

  108. Posted October 16, 2019 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

    Trump smacks down Graham after latest Syria broadside


    (From: Politico)

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