Five things about the killing of ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi

In the early morning hours of May 2, 2011, a U.S. Naval Special Warfare Development Group, as part of an operation code-named Neptune Spear, entered a fortified compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, and executed Osama bin Laden, the head of the Islamist terrorist group Al-Qaeda. In a televised announcement later that day, a sober Barack Obama informed the American people that the man responsible for having planned and funded the September 11, 2001 attacks against our nation had finally been brought to justice.

At the time, as you may recall, not everyone rallied together around the President of the United States, thanking him for making the apprehension of Osama bin Laden a military priority. Among those who refused to acknowledge Obama’s role in the operation was Donald Trump, who said the following in an interview with CNN at the time.

Donald Trump was adamant that the President of the United States should not get “credit” for either having prioritized the apprehension of Al-Qaeda’s leader, or having ordered the mission against the terrorist who, by that time, had eluded capture for almost a decade.

Now, though, it would appear as though Donald Trump has had a change of heart. Having just listened to his bewildering speech about the killing of ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi by U.S. forces last night, it seems as though he now believes the President of the United States deserves quite a bit of credit in instances like this… a sentiment that’s shared by his Vice President, who said today that “All the credit goes here to the decisiveness of this commander in chief and the courage and professionalism (of the of special operations forces who carried out his commands).”

Oh, and, for what it’s worth, our incredibly petty President also apparently thinks that the killing of al-Baghdadi is more significant than the killing of bin Laden. “Osama was a big thing,” he told reporters today, “but this is the biggest there is.”

I know it’s doesn’t do any good to complain here about the hypocrisy of Donald Trump. It’s not as though any of his followers, who stuck with him through all the other scandals, are going to walk away from him now, because yet another blogger points out that, eight years ago, when Obama was in the White House, he had a different take on such things. But, I felt as though I should at least mention it for the record, before getting into the substance of what happened here with regard to the al-Baghdadi mission.

One more thing before we move on, though. William McRaven, the Navy SEAL commander who oversaw the operation to take out Osama bin Laden, penned an op-ed earlier this month warning the American people that Donald Trump is a threat to our nation.

OK, so now let’s get to al-Baghdadi. As time is limited, I’m going to limit myself to just the five things that I think are the most important, interesting, etc. So, if you’re looking for speculation as to whether or not the photo of Trump in the situation room yesterday was staged, you’re going to have to look elsewhere, because that didn’t make my cut.

1. It would appear as though we’ve known were al-Baghdadi for some time now, thanks to our Kurdish allies in Syria. Apparently, we had know the ISIS leader’s location in Idlib for the past “three and a half months. For multiple reasons, however, we’d decided not to act on the information until yesterday. The calculus apparently changed when Trump announced earlier this month that we’d be pulling our troops from northern Syria, meaning that our ability to control the situation going forward would be greatly diminished. [I’ve read that they were hoping to kill him in transit, so that there would be less collateral damage, but I imagine, had they waited, he may have also led them to additional high-level ISIS leaders.] The following background comes by way of the New York Times.

The surprising information about the Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi’s general location — in a village deep inside a part of northwestern Syria controlled by rival Qaeda groups — came following the arrest and interrogation of one of Mr. al-Baghdadi’s wives and a courier this past summer, two American officials said.

Armed with that initial tip, the C.I.A. worked closely with Iraqi and Kurdish intelligence officials in Iraq and Syria to identify Mr. al-Baghdadi’s more precise whereabouts and to put spies in place to monitor his periodic movements, allowing American commandos to stage an assault Saturday in which President Trump said Mr. al-Baghdadi died.

But Mr. Trump’s abrupt decision to withdraw American forces from northern Syria disrupted the meticulous planning and forced Pentagon officials to press ahead with a risky, night raid before their ability to control troops and spies and reconnaissance aircraft disappeared, according to military, intelligence and counterterrorism officials. Mr. al-Baghdadi’s death, they said, occurred largely in spite of Mr. Trump’s actions.

The officials praised the Kurds, who continued to provide information to the C.I.A. on Mr. al-Baghdadi even after Mr. Trump’s decision to withdraw the American troops left the Syrian Kurds to confront a Turkish offensive alone. The Syrian and Iraqi Kurds, one official said, provided more intelligence for the raid than any single country…

And you read that right. We got al-Baghdadi because of the Kurds, our allies that Donald Trump recently gave the word to abandon.

Also, this sentence bears repeating… “Mr. al-Baghdadi’s death, they said, occurred largely in spite of Mr. Trump’s actions,” not because of them.

2. Donald Trump told members of the press today that he watched the entire mission go down, and that al-Baghdadi, right before taking his own life, “was screaming, crying, and whimpering.” According to intelligence officials, however, there was no live audio or body cam video. What Trump was watching, it would appear, was surveillance footage from above the compound. So, when he said, “I got to watch much of it… Mr. al-Baghdadi died after running into a dead-end tunnel, whimpering and crying and screaming all the way,” he was lying.

3. Donald Trump, in his public statement today, made reference to the fact that Russia had been briefed on the mission prior to its execution. It would appear, however, that no one in the administration thought to brief Speaker Pelosi or members of the House Intelligence Committee… Speaking of Russia, Trump also thanked them before even thanking the members of Delta Force who executed this mission, or the Kurds who make it possible. He also, of course, downplayed the role of the Kurds… Oh, and the Russians say they’d already killed al-Baghdadi in May, but who the hell knows.

4. Donald Trump told members of the press today that, prior to the September 11, 2001 attacks on our country, he had called for the death of Osama bin Laden in a book that he’d written. “About a year — you’ll have to check it, a year, year and a half — before the World Trade Center came down, the book came out,” he said. “I was talking about Osama bin Laden. I said, ‘You have to kill him. You have to take him out.’ Nobody listened to me.” This never happened.

5. If we’re going to give Donald Trump “credit” for killing al-Baghdadi — which I don’t have a problem with doing — then we should also give him credit for the five ISIS prisoners who escaped from Qamishli on October 11, and the 800 who escaped from Ain Issa on October 13, when U.S. troops, on his command, pulled back. These were ISIS prisoners who were being held by our Kurdish allies before they were forced to flee.

One last thing. Even after all of this — this great news about the leader of ISIS having been killed — Donald Trump was still booed at tonight’s World Series game. People know what’s going on. We are not alone.

[They also chanted “Lock him up.”]

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67 Comments

  1. Posted October 27, 2019 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

    “Veterans for Impeachment” sign behind home plate.

  2. 734
    Posted October 27, 2019 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

    Watch Trump’s face change when he realizes that it’s “boo” that he’s hearing. It’s one of the greatest things you will ever see.

    https://twitter.com/lotsofuss/status/1188636520288149505?s=20

  3. Posted October 27, 2019 at 10:02 pm | Permalink

    It was announced this morning that the leader of ISIS had been killed, and, just a few hours later, people game five of the World Series were chanting “lock him up” at the President of the United States. It’s absolutely amazing. #LockHimUp and #BooTrump are trending now, and there’s almost no mention of ISIS in my feed. Trump couldn’t help himself. He had to go out and appear in public, before his adoring fans.

  4. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 27, 2019 at 10:21 pm | Permalink

    Awww, derps at the ball game don’t like a President who destroyed what their fave prez created. Well waah! Trump draws about as many people to his frequent RALLIES as there are at a ball game.

  5. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 27, 2019 at 11:01 pm | Permalink

    “People know what’s going on.”

    Goofy attempt to lend credibility to 3 years of goofy takes.

  6. Sad
    Posted October 28, 2019 at 5:47 am | Permalink

    The stadium holds about 45000 people HW. Give me a list of five recent rallies that had attendance of a similar size.

    Thanks.

    I wonder if the lock him up chant will continue? That’s funny.

  7. Sad
    Posted October 28, 2019 at 6:16 am | Permalink

    FF I read Breitbart but would never comment there.

    Why do you feel so compelled to comment here primarily with objections to the content of the blog?

  8. John Brown
    Posted October 28, 2019 at 6:28 am | Permalink

    I thought they were chanting “string him up, string him up…” Well it shouldn’t be much longer.

    There is no way that pooty isn’t going to orchestrate, and bask in the glory, of “the reveal” in the final episode of this treasonous POS reality show.

  9. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 28, 2019 at 8:15 am | Permalink

    Aloha, A couple of points of clarification. 1) The Russians said they knew nothing about this operation and were not informed about it before hand (after all they killed the guy back in May–and of course we killed him 3 or 4 other times before that).
    2) According to our Kurdish allies, no ISIS fighters have escaped custody. The 800 figure your always reliable New York Times has been reporting on were not ISIS fighters in prison. Rather they were ISIS dependents, ie woman and children who had been kept in an unguarded compound. Only 4 ISIS fighters have escaped—of course thousands are serving in the jihadi Turkish militias (our NATO Ally ) invading Syria. The ISIS is coming back ISIS is coming back mantra is necessary to justify our continuing illegal occupation of parts of Syria and the illegal seizure of Syrian oil.

    When will people see through the lies, Turkey and the Jihadies are our allies in the regime change war we are waging in Syria. Tulsi is the only truth teller on the campaign trail, so be sure to smear and vilify her.
    But hey we are America and our wars crimes do not count.

  10. John Brown
    Posted October 28, 2019 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    Dimitri dolt, you’re sounding as Orwellian as agent orange with that one! Oh no, your surfer gurl is the only one who can save us from ourselves! Has she put up any more putin-esque hyper macho fighting workout videos? Doesn’t she ride horses shirtless too?

  11. John Galt
    Posted October 28, 2019 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    They were chanting, “Love Him More”, you idiots. People LOVE this President. He is a gift from God! How can you not see this?

  12. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 28, 2019 at 10:00 am | Permalink

    Trump rallies fill 20,000 seat arenas plus outside attendees watching on the big screen. Not too shabby and probably more than the D.C. derps booing at the big game.

  13. Anonymous
    Posted October 28, 2019 at 10:25 am | Permalink

    You left out the best Trump quote of the day.

    “Our canine, as they call it. I call it a dog.”

  14. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 28, 2019 at 10:26 am | Permalink

    6% (six percent) republican D.C. You are fooling yourself thinking this represents the USA.

  15. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 28, 2019 at 10:37 am | Permalink

    Aloha, you know things are doing great when the military has to rely upon student debt peonage in order to meet the recruitment goals for our imperial adventures.

    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ne833d/the-army-beat-its-recruitment-goals-this-year-by-targeting-students-in-debt?fbclid=IwAR1L945SFRUdR7O7CX5O-sxw4ZwLqTz1ptoHl0t9MBJvr4vFxOAzD6IohCU

  16. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 28, 2019 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    Mark, 734, and J Bro should have gone to the game to celebrate with some of their people. Tickets started at $1200.

  17. Rick Wilson by proxy
    Posted October 28, 2019 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    Two years of QAnon — the 2rd Qanniversary, if you will — and SOMEHOW no mass arrests.

    The “67000 sealed indictments” never resulted in cases.

    No one has been shipped to GITMO.

    It’s almost…ALMOST…as if Qanon was a con targeting credulous hick boomer rubes.

  18. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 28, 2019 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

    Aloha JB, this tweet comes with a pretty useful map.

    https://syria.liveuamap.com/en/2019/26-october-as-the-us-plans-to-keep-a-military-presence-in

    highlight the green gun on the border with Syria, Jordan and Iraq. All the other emblems take you to other news tweets.

    US Green Berets just “graduated” 46 more fighters Maghaweir al-Thowra Look up Maghaweir al-Thowra where they originate, who has supported them, and what they are fighting for—I remember some of these same headlines 5 years ago–guess we are almost back to go.

  19. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 28, 2019 at 2:29 pm | Permalink

    J Bro, it is almost 2020. A woman who works out and uses mixed martial arts for fitness and sport is not “guilty” of an “ultra macho” act.

  20. Natasha Bertrand by proxy
    Posted October 28, 2019 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    Gen. Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, tells reporters he doesn’t know where Trump got his information that Baghdadi was “whimpering and crying” when he died. “I don’t know what the source of that was.”

  21. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 28, 2019 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, always follow the money

    Tulsi Gabbard to Attend Press Conference to Demand the US Government Releases 9/11 Documents Implicating Saudi Arabia in the Attacks
    ***Media Advisory for October 29, 2019***
    NEW YORK CITY — Presidential candidate Tulsi Gabbard (U.S. Rep, Hawaii) will be holding a press conference on Tuesday at the 9/11 Tribute Museum to publicly demand that the U.S. Department of Justice and the FBI declassify and release 9/11 investigative documents that implicate the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia in the attacks.
    Tulsi will also share her bold foreign policy vision for ending our engagement in costly regime change wars, the new Cold War and arms race, and investing US resources in serving the needs of the American people.
    Public Schedule for Tuesday, October 29, 2019
    9/11 Press Conference
    Hosted by Families of 9/11 Victims
    12:00pm – 2:00pm EST
    9/11 Tribute Museum
    92 Greenwich Street
    New York, NY 10006

  22. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 28, 2019 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

    Rick Wilson’s proxy:

    What are those indictments doing all just kind of hanging out together all over the country? It’s almost like…they must be connected somehow…Ever happened before on such a scale?

    How come all the investigations Q told us about long ago are now in the public eye and are about to hit? The coup agents Q named before they became household? The many drops that have in fact panned out? How many coincidences before mathematically impossible?

  23. Sad
    Posted October 28, 2019 at 8:30 pm | Permalink

    What if Tulsi is Q?

  24. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 28, 2019 at 8:39 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, I just don’t understand the Trumpeters. HW says he is against pedophilia but why is he not out hear every day protesting for my man Assange. When Assange got his start exposing pedophiles.
    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/wikileaks/legal-threats-as-assange-laid-bare/news-story/60875c11e1109011f247acb73729d1d9?fbclid=IwAR2wZXiAsYtPqgntybh-hKKLG_MrrQRxfFaQSlATG9cLviNA_1LDDqgeBxM

  25. The Daily Beast
    Posted October 28, 2019 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

    NEW: Five senior Trump administration officials who watched in real time told The Daily Beast that they had no idea where Trump got the “whimpering and crying and screaming” Baghdadi detail.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-officials-had-no-clue-where-he-got-whimpering-detail-in-his-baghdadi-raid-account

  26. Jean Henry
    Posted October 29, 2019 at 6:37 am | Permalink

    Of course you love Assange, DD.

    It’s amazing how people who pride themselves on their skepticism of institutions make such great marks for con artists.

  27. Jimmy Kimmel
    Posted October 29, 2019 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    We mashed up @BarackObama’s Bin Laden speech with @RealDonaldTrump’s al-Baghdadi speech, and the results are amazing.

    https://twitter.com/jimmykimmel/status/1189153270167564288?s=20

  28. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 29, 2019 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    Aloha JH, I guess you are in favor of shit canning the 1st. amendment, do you think you will ever find a reason to get me to vote for a candidate that you would support?

  29. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 29, 2019 at 9:43 am | Permalink

    Aloha JH, So much for freedom of speech. Another truth telling journalist gets arrested on spurious charges.

    https://shadowproof.com/2019/10/28/journalist-max-blumenthal-arrested-charged-venezuela-embassy-reporting/?fbclid=IwAR2shpRpqRxRJ2ZIR9PaKUUUeNfA8J4BsCIEsv767TdTs3eF6RHIs09S9ko

  30. Lynne
    Posted October 29, 2019 at 9:43 am | Permalink

    What if she endorses Tulsi?!?

  31. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 29, 2019 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    The National Lawyers Guild International Committee condemned the charge brought against Blumenthal.

    “We join Blumenthal in noting that his arrest took place hours after The Grayzone issued a report on USAID funding to lobbyists for the Venezuelan opposition,” the NLG IC stated. “It also appears to be a form of retaliation practiced against both embassy protection activists and critical journalists for their opposition to the U.S.’ unlawful intervention in Venezuela, support for an attempted coup, and unilateral coercive economic sanctions directed against the country.”

  32. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 29, 2019 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    “HW says he is against pedophilia but why is he not out hear every day protesting for my man Assange. When Assange got his start exposing pedophiles.”

    If you knew one damn thing you would know Assange is on the team. Extradition is going to be extremely destructive to the deep state. Senate hearing with Julian I think.

  33. Lynne
    Posted October 29, 2019 at 10:06 am | Permalink

    DD, Yeah. I guess physical assault is something we should ignore? Puh-leez! He wasn’t arrested for his journalism, he was arrested for allegedly kicking a woman in the stomach.

  34. iRobert
    Posted October 30, 2019 at 6:32 am | Permalink

    If doctors hadn’t blocked it, Trump would have carried out the commando operation himself. Damn bone spurs!

    …and it would have gone perfectly. No civilian deaths. It would have been perfect.

  35. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 30, 2019 at 6:45 am | Permalink

    Aloha Lynne, Don’t let facts get in the way of your biases. Enjoy the propaganda. Be happy the world is fine, don’t worry.

  36. John Brown
    Posted October 30, 2019 at 8:01 am | Permalink

    Dimitri the Dolt, here’s your gal asserting the problem with Erdogan is his being a “radical islamist” versus a run of the mill authoritarian dictator. Wow, that’s some fascist talking point shit there!

    https://t.co/AQ5zb6Hp08

  37. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 30, 2019 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    Aloha JB, here is a video of your CIA buddies working for Erdogan. You know a video from our Kurdish allies taken during the Turkish invasion. Tulsi tells the truth, but liberals just can’t handle the truth.

    https://twitter.com/AzadiRojava/status/1185543787952644096

  38. Lynne
    Posted October 31, 2019 at 8:41 am | Permalink

    Well, Tulsi certainly says things that certain people really want to hear.

  39. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 31, 2019 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    Aloha Lynne, Your absolutely right. I want to hear a Presidential candidate who calls for the truth about Saudi involvement in the Sept. 11 attack on the US. I want to hear a Presidential candidate who tells the truth about our regime change war in Syria. I want to hear a Presidential candidate who calls out the propagandist for endless racist war in the middle east. I want to hear a Presidential candidate call for cooperation and not confrontation as foreign policy doctrine. I want a Presidential candidate that is calling for an end to subsidizes to the fossil fuel industries. I want a Presidential candidate who has an actionable plan to transition the US to a carbon reduction society rather than the major driver of anthropogenic climate change. I want a Presidential Candidate who represents the aspirations of the next generation. I want a Presidential candidate who will be a President for all Americans.
    Tulsi is the only one out there.

  40. John Brown
    Posted October 31, 2019 at 9:26 am | Permalink

    Dimitri the Dolt, I have no illusion that Erdogan is a good guy. He’s horrible. But Tulsi using “radical islamist” language when it’s a domestic dog whistle for christo fascists and white supremacists, an offensive trope to American Muslims, and frankly not true of this particular authoritarian, reveals the lie of her calling for an end of the “endless racists wars” in the middle east.

    Disruptors love when their manipulation is made so easy as giving a little tug on your heart strings…..

  41. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 31, 2019 at 9:27 am | Permalink

    Aloha Lynne, was just listening to another interview with Tulsi (you know I love to hear her views). Another reason to vote for her. She still drives a car with a stick shift. Talk about a throwback to better days.

  42. Jean Henry
    Posted October 31, 2019 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

    DD is more hopelessly crushing on Tulsi than SAD is on Mayor Pete.

  43. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 31, 2019 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    Aloha JH, How can you not love such a strong compassionate woman who has dedicated her live to service before self. Not just smart, but an obviously thoughtful person who applies her intellect to problems. An examination of the Bills she has introduced in Congress demonstrate that she is a “let’s get it done” kind of person. The perfect leader for a generation that has to face the most daunting challenges any American has ever faced.

    Was just reading the latest scientific research on rising sea levels. We have run out of time to stop the ever increasing damage to our environment caused by climate change–the only question now is, how bad are we going to make it for our children and grandchildren.

    But hey you know all that JH, it is not like you are in denial, right. You know the scientific consensus is a very conservative position (scientist by disposition are very conservative). HW, EOS and the other tribal folks just don’t understand that the scientific dissenters to the IPCC reports are not denialist, rather they are the ones saying the IPCC is being too conservative. The tipping points and feedback loops are occurring much faster than the models predicted 10 and 15 years ago.
    But don’t worry be happy.

    https://www.juancole.com/2019/10/dioxide-coastal-triples.html

    Being brought up Catholic I understand Faith and Hope, and I have faith and hope that Tulsi can be this generation’s Athena.

  44. John Brown
    Posted October 31, 2019 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

    Dolt, you mean Russian Orthodox don’t you?

    WTF is Tulsi doing driving any car at all if she’s the next Athena? But if you must, a stick is a no brainer, especially in snow country. I’ve never owned an automatic.

    Agreed on the urgency of the climate crisis. My take is we are already committed to a future with no old ice left anywhere on the planet. Its going to displace tens of millions of refugees. Lets not make the situation worse by letting ourselves be manipulated by Athenas selling unrealistic fixes. Hell shes not even signing onto a Green New Deal afaik. Has she declared the Arctic Ocean should be off limits to oil extraction? Thats one of pooties wet dreams – to dominate the Arctic oil business.

  45. Lynne
    Posted October 31, 2019 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

    I agree that climate is pretty much our top priority. It just seems to me that the Tulsi supporters who keep going on about it are the SAME people who didn’t vote for HRC in 2016 and in some cases the same people who voted for Nader in 2000. They seem to be coming at those who support other candidates in a very judgy way even though pretty much every single candidate running in the Dem Primary has stated that climate is important. That so many of these same people are responsible for lost elections that resulted in climate deniers in office is striking to me. The lack of self-awareness is remarkable. All I can say is that if you voted for Nader in 2000 or anyone other than HRC in 2016, you cannot credibly criticize anyone else about not doing enough about climate change.

  46. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 31, 2019 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

    Aloha, I have been neglecting my putin puppet duties. Just watched these White Roses discuss using the Religious Restoration Act in a way that benefits the people.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP2nG5dokD4

    JB, the Green New Deal is an aspirational document. The Off Fossil Fuel Act, currently pending in Congress is an actionable plan to take the US off fossil fuels by 2030. It includes necessary retraining for dislocated fossil fuel workers, addresses fossil fuel agribusiness and funds the sustainable clean energy needed for the future. Without a petro-chemical economy, there will be no need for oil drilling in the arctic.

    Lynne, I voted Hope and Change twice and the US is now the first or second top oil producing country in the world. Obama sold us out. Hillary would have been worse.

  47. dogmatic dolt
    Posted October 31, 2019 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

    Aloha Lynne, I was just visiting an establishment Democratic Party web site. They are of course all freaking out about how Tulsi is now in the top 5 or 6 candidates. Anyway while pursing posts, some one pointed out this,

    “The Libertarians draw mostly from the Rethugs, and in FAR greater numbers overall compared to the Greens, especially in 2016. This is often overlooked (as it doesn’t fit certain narratives), but if you add the 5.2 MILLION votes Gary Johnson and McMullin (a few state indie run) got to Trump, he then beats Clinton, not just in the EC, but also in the POPULAR vote as well, even if you give Clinton ALL 1.46 million Green votes.”

    I do not support voter shaming. I believe in voting for the best candidate. Lesser evil voting only gets you evil.

  48. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 31, 2019 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

    If you don’t vote for who Lynne likes then you are part of the problem. So, vote for whoever Lynne likes or stfu.

    #entitlement

  49. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 31, 2019 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

    Tulsi polled higher than Kamala “I’m a top tier candidate” Harris.

  50. iRobert
    Posted October 31, 2019 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

    I have been surprised by Kamala’s dramatic decline in support.

  51. Jean Henry
    Posted October 31, 2019 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

    Tulsi is polling at 2-5%. That’s not super impressive, given that she has received a bunch of attention for her spat with HRC. Kamals declaring herself a top tier candidate was ‘aspirational’ I guess. FF implying that Tulles polling ahead of Harris in some polls by 1% makes Tulis a top tier candidate is just bizarre. DD top 5 or 6 doesn’t win the prize with three or four candidates in double digits..

  52. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 31, 2019 at 10:18 pm | Permalink

    No Jean. You don’t understand the context at all: Kamala referring to herself as “top tier” was not aspirational, rather, it was her arrogant attempt to mock Tulsi after Tulsi destroyed Kamala with truth over her record as a prosecutor in an earlier debate. Kamala never disputed the truth of what Tulsi said, rather she tried to make it seem like the only reason Tulsi attacked her record was because Tulsi was behaving like a desperate and lowly worm—compared to herself. Notice Kamala did not dispute the facts…

    I am not suggesting Tulsi is a top tier candidate. I am saying she surpassed the arrogant Kamala and that is a good thing, IMO.

    Anyway, Tulsi is polling better than Kamala despite the coordinated effort to destroy Tulsi’s campaign through smears and blacklisting. That is also a good thing, IMO.

  53. Jean Henry
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 7:16 am | Permalink

    Why does anyone imagine that any candidate for president is humble?
    Why do they even want them to be?

    FF– Deriding a Black woman for being ‘arrogant’ is such a cliche, isn’t it?

  54. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 7:34 am | Permalink

    Are those supposed to be interesting questions?

    I am happy Tulsi is polling better than Kamala especially after Harris tried putting her down. If you feel differently that is cool.

  55. Sad
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 7:52 am | Permalink

    Mayor Pete is humble.

    He’s just a rube from the Midwest.

  56. Sad
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 7:55 am | Permalink

    Mayor Pete – surging!

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/01/us/politics/iowa-poll-warren-biden.html

  57. Lynne
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 8:47 am | Permalink

    DD and FF. I am just saying that elections have consequences and if you vote in a way that has a bad consequence, eg. voting third party or not voting, you simply are not in a position to be critical about the outcome since you are partly responsible. If you didn’t vote for HRC in 2016 you are partially responsible for Trump and if you voted for Nader in 2000 you are partially responsible for Bush and therefore just not in a position to be critical of others about things like climate change. We could have made a start on things which btw did happen in the Obama years.

    Primaries are the time not to vote for the lesser of evils and to vote for the candidate who most appeals. But general elections are different and if you can’t figure that out, you are useless. Even though actual Trump voters are responsible too at least they got the outcome they wanted. Guys like DD are worse because they have no self-awareness. They didn’t get the outcome they wanted but don’t see their part in that outcome. They basically threw vulnerable people under the bus because it was more important to them to maintain ideological purity in the ballot box than to vote for some lesser evil. I find that disgusting.

  58. Lynne
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 8:49 am | Permalink

    On that note, I don’t think we have to worry too much about Tulsi winning any primaries. When people vote in primaries for the candidates they like best, she will not win because she simply isn’t many people’s favorite candidate. For very good reasons imho

  59. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    But the people that like neither Trump nor Hillary think people like Lynne are partly responsible for an outcome they don’t like. Only an extremely self-centered person with a bizarre sense of entitlement would fail to see something so obvious.

  60. Lynne
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    FF, yes. But those people just want to blame others for their own actions so best to just ignore them. Interestingly, those people tend to be white men like you who are extremely self-centered and entitled and pissed off that marginalized people might dare to vote differently than they do in primaries.

  61. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    Huh? Lynne is not making sense. I encourage people to vote in a way they think is best.

    Lynne is saying we should ignore the criticism of people who did not vote the way she did because things could have been better if they voted like she did. Your position reeks of self-centeredness and entitlement.

  62. Lynne
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

    I am saying that people who voted in a way with a predictable outcome are not credible when they criticize that outcome.

    FWIW, it is also my opinion that you don’t like it when women assert their power to speak up and express their opinions. I can see how that might seem like self-centeredness and false entitlement but from my point of view, the real issue is that you are used to white men always being taken seriously so the mere suggestion that maybe the rest of us need not always do that and can actually choose to ignore you in the same way that marginalized people have been since forever feels wrong. I do feel entitled to express my opinion and I also feel entitled to ignore yours. I see nothing wrong with that and unlike your apparent attitude that you are entitled to always be heard and treated like you know what you are talking about, I don’t feel it is a false entitlement.

  63. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

    What a bunch of unrelated word salad twisting of words taken completely out of context by Lynne…Lynne is truly a bullshitter.

    We all should vote in the way we feel is best yes or no? We should all champion causes we find important yes or no? The reason I ask such dumb questions is because, based upon what you wrote above, it seems like Lynne thinks DD should not speak up about global warming because he did not vote for Lynne’s candidate. Lynne questioned his credibility and suggested we ignore him because he did not vote for Lynne’s candidate. That is crazy! And a sign of Lynne’s extreme self-centeredness and bizarre feeling of entitlement.

    Lynne really doesn’t understand how using her own logic someone as backward as Lynne could call Lynne not “credible”worthy of being “ignored”, and “disgusting”.

  64. Lynne
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 1:29 pm | Permalink

    I am not saying that DD should not speak up about global warming, I am saying that unless he voted for HRC in 2016 or Gore in 2000, he has no credibility when criticizing others on the subject unless he acknowledges his part in where we are today.

  65. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

    Using Lynne’s logic, couldn’t DD say Lynne has no credibility unless she admits that we are where we are today in part because “the Lynnes of the world” did not vote for DD’s candidates? Do you not see how your judgment would simply get cancelled-out, when the logic behind your judgment, is applied away from your self-centered point of view onto the point of view of another person?

  66. Lynne
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    DD can say anything he wants. He certainly can form an opinion that people who don’t vote for his chosen candidates aren’t credible when they claim they care about climate change. He can even try to persuade people to his side if he chooses. I still do not agree that Tulsi is the only Democratic candidate with a reasonable plan to deal with climate change but he is welcome to form that opinion.

    It is true that I strongly believe that in our current system, we are going to be limited to two viable parties so in general elections for president, there are only two viable choices and that in that situation, not voting for the lesser of two evils only helps the greater of the two evils to win sometimes. To me, primaries are where one has the opportunity to vote for who they like best. If Tusli somehow wins the primary, I will vote for her because even though I don’t especially like her, she would be a huge improvement over Trump. Fewer lives ruined.

    The stick shift comment, btw, was a good one because I actually do think that knowing how to drive a manual transmission makes a person cooler than not even as I don’t think it a necessary skill to be president. I don’t know why I missed it before.

  67. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 1, 2019 at 9:23 pm | Permalink

    DD can say whatever he wants? That is good to know. Is that the issue though? Am I defending DD’s right to make statements that are similarly stupid to Lynne’s statements? No I am not. I am questioning if it makes logical sense to link DD’s credibility to his choice to support someone other than Hillary.

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