The time has come to call Pelosi’s office and demand impeachment

I know this makes three posts in a row, which is unprecedented for me, but I’m not ready to move on from Trump’s admission yesterday that he sought to coerce the President of Ukraine into lending credibility to a roundly debunked right wing conspiracy theory involving former Vice President Joe Biden. This, assuming we can verify it, would be the most significant crime committed by an American president in our nation’s history.

While we’ve yet to read the whistleblower’s complaint the initially brought this crime to light, as Trump’s Director of National Intelligence and Attorney General are still refusing to hand it over to Congress (in violation of federal law), we have every reason to believe, given the evidence that’s surfaced thus far, that the President of the United States held up $341 million in foreign aid that Congress had allocated to be sent to Ukraine, until such time that the country’s new President, Volodymyr Zelensky, agreed to provide kompromat that could be used against Joe Biden during our 2020 presidential election. These are funds which, it should be noted, Congress allocated to Ukraine with the belief that doing so was in our nation’s best interest. So, Donald Trump, assuming all of this is true, not only abused the power of his office in hopes of finding dirt (either real of manufactured) against a political rival here in America, but, in doing so, prioritized his own reelection over our national security interests. And this was apparently a big enough deal that a national security officer with knowledge of the call filed a whistleblower complaint with the Intelligence Community’s Inspector General, who then, in turn, found said complaint to be both “credible” and “urgent”. [It’s been reported that Trump, on the call in question, pressured Zelensky eight times to deliver dirt on Vice President Biden and his son, Hunter.] And, it should be noted that Michael Atkinson, the Intelligence Community’s Inspector General who found the complaint to be both credible and urgent, is himself a Trump appointee with a reputation for being a highly cautious “straight shooter”. So, regardless of what you might hear, this isn’t a “deep state” takedown of the President. This is one of Trump’s own people saying that his behavior on this particular call was troubling enough to be taken to Congress. Trump’s DNI, however, had other plans. Instead of taking the complaint immediately to Congress, as is mandated by law, he took the whistleblower’s complaint to William Barr at the Department of Justice, who, as I write this, is still refusing to hand it over to our elected representatives on the House and Senate Intelligence Committees.

And, with that, I wanted to share an excerpt from a letter written by seven freshman Democrats in Congress that was just posted by the Washington Post. [One of the seven is Elissa Slotkin of Michigan.]

Our lives have been defined by national service. We are not career politicians. We are veterans of the military and of the nation’s defense and intelligence agencies. Our service is rooted in the defense of our country on the front lines of national security.

We have devoted our lives to the service and security of our country, and throughout our careers, we have sworn oaths to defend the Constitution of the United States many times over. Now, we join as a unified group to uphold that oath as we enter uncharted waters and face unprecedented allegations against President Trump.

The president of the United States may have used his position to pressure a foreign country into investigating a political opponent, and he sought to use U.S. taxpayer dollars as leverage to do it. He allegedly sought to use the very security assistance dollars appropriated by Congress to create stability in the world, to help root out corruption and to protect our national security interests, for his own personal gain. These allegations are stunning, both in the national security threat they pose and the potential corruption they represent. We also know that on Sept. 9, the inspector general for the intelligence community notified Congress of a “credible” and “urgent” whistleblower complaint related to national security and potentially involving these allegations. Despite federal law requiring the disclosure of this complaint to Congress, the administration has blocked its release to Congress.

This flagrant disregard for the law cannot stand. To uphold and defend our Constitution, Congress must determine whether the president was indeed willing to use his power and withhold security assistance funds to persuade a foreign country to assist him in an upcoming election.

If these allegations are true, we believe these actions represent an impeachable offense. We do not arrive at this conclusion lightly, and we call on our colleagues in Congress to consider the use of all congressional authorities available to us, including the power of “inherent contempt” and impeachment hearings, to address these new allegations, find the truth and protect our national security….

Things are definitely beginning to shift. You can feel it.

We knew that Donald Trump was the kind of man who would collude with foreign powers to attain and maintain power. And, now, it looks as though we may finally have the “smoking gun” evidence that we’ve been looking for, documentation that he withheld foreign aid dollars to shake down a fellow world leader to essentially lie for him. The question is, is it enough to finally move Pelosi on the subject of impeachment. My guess is that it is, and I think that’s what we’ll hear tomorrow afternoon, after her scheduled meeting with the six Democratic committee chairs who are presently investigating the various criminal acts of the Trump administration.

But, just to be sure Pelosi does the right thing here, it certainly wouldn’t hurt to contact her office and urge her to treat this most recent affront to the rule of law like the deadly serious threat that it is. While Donald Trump has certainly engaged in a litany of likely illegal acts over the two years, this time there can be no question. And either we stand up to stop him, or we allow him to destroy what’s left of our once-great democracy. If this isn’t impeachable, nothing is. And we have no choice left but to fight with everything that we have. We cannot just wait and hope that he leaves the White House willingly in 2020.

update: Well, it’s looking like Pelosi is coming around. The Washington Post just issued a piece titled, “Pelosi quietly sounding out House Democrats about whether to impeach Trump, officials say.” Here’s an excerpt.

Speaker Nancy Pelosi has been quietly sounding out top allies and lawmakers about whether the time has come to impeach President Trump, a major development as several moderate House Democrats resistant to impeachment suddenly endorsed the extraordinary step of trying to oust the president.

Pelosi, according to multiple senior House Democrats and congressional aides, has been gauging the mood of her caucus about whether they believe allegations that Trump pressured a Ukrainian leader to investigate a political foe is a tipping point. She was making calls as late as Monday night, and many leadership aides who once thought Trump’s impeachment was unlikely now say they think it’s almost inevitable.

update: Well, this most recent affront to the rule of law was apparently enough to get my Representative, Debbie Dingell, to do the right thing and support impeachment.

update: One more thing. It looks like the House Intelligence Committee might want to subpoena Mick Mulvaney.

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114 Comments

  1. Julia Davis by proxy
    Posted September 23, 2019 at 9:32 pm | Permalink

    The White House decided to release the aid after Sen. Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.) threatened to freeze $5 billion in Pentagon funding for next year unless the money for 2019 was distributed.

  2. Anonymous
    Posted September 23, 2019 at 9:42 pm | Permalink

    This keeps getting worse.

    Giuliani told Hannity this evening on Fox that he went to Ukraine on orders from the State Department.

    “I wasn’t acting on my own,” Giuliani said. “I was following instructions of the State Department.”

    Why would the State Department send the president’s personal attorney to Ukraine?

    https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/1176308689504022529?s=20

  3. iRobert
    Posted September 23, 2019 at 10:09 pm | Permalink

    I still believe #MoscowMitch needs to openly state that this is an impeachable offense. I think all pressure should be put on Mitch. If he refuses to take appropriate steps, Democrats should start pressuring the few ethical GOP Senators to make it happen. There is always a way to do things so that the undesired affect isn’t brought on.

  4. iRobert
    Posted September 23, 2019 at 10:16 pm | Permalink

    The strategy should be to proceed in a way that brings the majority of public opinion along. It can be done.

  5. Sad
    Posted September 23, 2019 at 10:40 pm | Permalink

    Elissa Slotkin Is a rock star.

    HW will be terrified when he reads about her background.

  6. John Brown
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 5:36 am | Permalink

    Since electric chairs have been on his mind, I’m definitely willing to compromise on the final outcome.

    The domestic terrorists he motivates will get worse, but it’s something we can handle, and leverage for the next election.

  7. Ben Rhodes by proxy
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 6:29 am | Permalink

    Trump has completely corrupted American foreign policy and the entire Republican Party is complicit. Nothing quite like this has happened in American history and it is devastating to our credibility around the world.

  8. EOS
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 6:34 am | Permalink

    Accuse your enemy of what you are guilty of doing.

    This classic tactic of the Left is based upon the ideas of author and activist, Saul Alinsky, who dedicated his most famous book, Rules for Radicals, to Satan.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/437719-ukrainian-to-us-prosecutors-why-dont-you-want-our-evidence-on-democrats

  9. meanwhile in an alternate universe
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 6:38 am | Permalink

    Donald Trump to reporters: “I think I’m going to get a Nobel Prize for a lot of things.”

  10. iRobert
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 6:51 am | Permalink

    EOS, to what specifically are you referring?

  11. GOD
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 6:51 am | Permalink

    EOS, STFU.

  12. iRobert
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 7:06 am | Permalink

    EOS, the Hill article you linked suggests Trump Administration officials have been blocking information showing Dems were involved in wrongdoing. So I’m not clear on what specifically to which you are referring?

  13. EOS
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 7:06 am | Permalink

    iRobert,

    Did you even read the link? Have you been following the real news about Obama’s use of Hunter Biden and their collusion with foreign governments to influence the 2016 election? If the Obama administration is not held accountable for their actions, these and many others, the United States will soon cease to exist in its present form. Too much has leaked – too much is known.

  14. Frosted Flakes
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 7:07 am | Permalink

    I was under the assumption that Trump’s first choice would be to run against Biden.

  15. EOS
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 7:12 am | Permalink

    We have the evidence independent from the Ukrainian officials, which, if Trump worked with them, would only fuel the false charges that he was the one colluding with them originally.

  16. iRobert
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 7:31 am | Permalink

    EOS, a lot of what I read I don’t take as established fact. So much is being said, it’s difficult sometimes to know what any one person might be specifically focused upon and believing.

    Regardless, the actions of this President have crossed legal lines regularly. We all know it’s just because he’s simply that stupid. But that doesn’t mean standard responses and action shouldn’t be taken.

    The Trump Administration has the resources of the entire federal government at their disposal. They also have a Senate and a Supreme Court in line to back up anything they choose to do. What is keeping them from presenting to the American people the evidence of wrongdoing on the part of the Obama Administration and Democrats? What is stopping them from proceeding with legal action?

  17. Sad
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 7:39 am | Permalink

    Duh!

    The Deep State!

    Haven’t you been paying attention to what EOS and HW have been sharing?

  18. iRobert
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 7:43 am | Permalink

    FF,

    Yes, there’s definitely an inconsistency there. If Trump’s campaign really preferred to face off against Biden, they wouldn’t be so worried about hitting him this early.

    The truth is that the Trump campaign isn’t going to have much say in whether or not Trump is reinstalled. It’s going to be up to the same interests who installed him in the first place, and they don’t show their cards. So the Trump campaign is left wondering if they’re on their own this time. I’m wondering too.

  19. stupid hick
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 7:49 am | Permalink

    EOS, avoid the temptation to give credibility to stories simply because they are comforting. Solomon is not an honest broker but a rightwing propagandist, whose modus operandi has long been to misconstrue facts to reinforce narratives that comfort conservatives.

    https://www.emptywheel.net/2019/06/20/konstantin-kilimnik-shared-stolen-data-laundered-through-bannons-propaganda-with-state-department/

    You know in your heart what Trump is all about, and you should know better than most here that you can’t accept gifts from the devil without paying with your soul. Don’t grasp at Solomon’s work to anesthetize yourself to what you know in your heart is true about Trump. It is obvious who Trump is. It’s time to cut him loose. There are others who would be better to represent both conservatives and the country.

  20. EOS
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 8:00 am | Permalink

    What is stopping them from proceeding with legal action?

    They are in the process of getting all their ducks in a row. The indictments are coming soon. It takes time to investigate the entire swamp.

  21. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 8:12 am | Permalink

    The word ‘frothy’ appears eight times in your little hit piece there. How FROTHY can you get? Can you get a little more FROTHY there? Frothy frothy frothy.

  22. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 8:24 am | Permalink

    Solomon has been extraordinarily accurate. Everything he said about FISA, Russia, all the fuckups of the Trump witch hunt, etc. has turned out true. MSM has been the opposite.

  23. EOS
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    I don’t know who Solomon is, nor am I influenced by him. There are plenty of credible sources that point to Biden’s involvement, including videos of his admission to crimes in his own words.

    Trump has been a better representative of conservative causes than any other president in my lifetime. That is exactly what makes Progressives so furious that they are willing to fabricate anything to try to get him out of office.

    Colluding with the Democratic party would be far more damaging to my soul. It’s funny how Non-Christians can’t seem to understand that. They need the scales to be removed from their eyes.

  24. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 8:29 am | Permalink

    “It’s going to be up to the same interests who installed him in the first place, and they don’t show their cards. ”

    Who do you think put Donald Trump in the White House? Still going with this Russia shit, iRob? You are tantalizingly close to breaking out of this kind of nonsense. I wonder what will finally put you over the top.

  25. John Brown
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 8:39 am | Permalink

    Dumb fuckers who helped Russia spread hate and fascism put him in office. I’m super clear on that. Now we have International terrorist killing on Agent Oranges behalf. Reconcile that in your muddled brains traitors.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/09/23/russia-adding-violent-energy-white-supremacy-around-globe-us/

  26. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 8:48 am | Permalink

    YOU the individual specifically encouraged people to do what that lefty mass murderer did. It’s painful to know there are people as full of hate and ignorance as you in this world. Not content to simply be a piece of shit, you blame others for the problems people like you cause.

  27. Jean Henry
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1176162231719014400154001%2F

  28. Lynne
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    The president is a criminal. He should be impeached. I have been writing Dingell and was pleased that she is coming out in favor of impeachment. I guess now I will send the postcards to Pelosi. I even have a bunch from California :)

  29. M
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    @StephenKing is on the impeachment train:

    Like Rep. Pelosi, I haven’t seen the point of a House impeachment proceeding when the McConnell-led Senate won’t convict. But with this Ukraine business, Trump has gone too far and must be brought to heel. For the good of America, impeach now.

  30. Jean Henry
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1176162231719014400?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1176162231719014400&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fstory%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2F2019%2F09%2F23%2Ftrump-un-greta-thunberg-staring-president-viral-video%2F2424154001%2F

  31. Jean Henry
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    This morning I looked at my NYT daily briefing of the stories of the day and tried to imagine what I would have thought reading those same headlines 10 or 15 years ago. And we all know plenty of horrible shit was going down then too. But this man in the presidency plus Britain plus Climate Inaction.
    Jesus, we are one fucked up species.

    No one should respond to the conservative trolls here. They are wasting our time. They are not even reflective of most conservatives who have sense enough not to pretend our president is noble. They should be ignored. They are not worth our time. There’s more important work to do. Literally almost anything you could do would be time better spent.

  32. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 9:29 am | Permalink

    You don’t use reason, only your twisted emotions. How do you think you can impeach the President when the Senate is controlled by Republicans? The House can try try try but they will fail and only look like losers.

  33. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 9:31 am | Permalink

    https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1176162231719014400?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1176162231719014400&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fstory%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2F2019%2F09%2F23%2Ftrump-un-greta-thunberg-staring-president-viral-video%2F2424154001%2F

    What a weird little psychopath

  34. Sad
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 9:45 am | Permalink

    Takes one to know one!

    Ha-ha

  35. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    Why do you think you have to be something to recognize it in others? That retort never made sense to me even when I was a small child. That’s why I never used it. Or are you just…trolling.

  36. Sad
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 9:57 am | Permalink

    Whatever.

    You’re so Randy today!

    Drain the Marsh!

    Why pick on children?

  37. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 10:01 am | Permalink

    I don’t think you know what the word randy means. Randy with the capital R had one of the best songs ever.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRt_e4Bbk94

  38. Sad
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    Definition Randy-

    .
    ARCHAIC•SCOTTISH
    (of a person) having a rude, aggressive manner.

    Ta-da

  39. Max
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 10:05 am | Permalink

    If this is all very legal and very cool, Trump can clear this all up by making the transcripts of the call available and releasing the whistleblower’s complaint to Congress. If Maguire doesn’t provide the complaint on Thursday to Congress, they should start full on impeachment immediately. I don’t care if it somehow plays into Trump’s 16-D chess strategy or not, it’s time to act. Also, I could care less if this ordeal lands Biden and his son in Guantanamo. Biden is already at the average life expectancy of a male in the US and has no business running for president.

  40. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 10:11 am | Permalink

    Didn’t know you were speaking ancient Scottish today, sorry.

  41. iRobert
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 10:11 am | Permalink

    HW: “Who do you think put Donald Trump in the White House?”

    I don’t believe it was Russian Intelligence that did it. Though Russia did attempt to meddle, it seems clear their actions did not have a significant impact. It was the suppression of Democratic Party voter ID and GOTV operations that made the difference. It would have been next to impossible for Russian agents to pull that off without western intelligence agencies detecting it and acting quickly and dramatically to destroy the operation. Certain aspects of this ‘operation’ required complicity at high levels within US intelligence and political establishment.

    HW: “Still going with this Russia shit, iRob?

    No, I was never suckered by that cover story. As that is all it was really.

    HW: ” You are tantalizingly close to breaking out of this kind of nonsense. I wonder what will finally put you over the top.”

    I am open to any and all information. I would hope that you would be as well.

  42. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    Do you not see how this little episode put the spotlight on Hunter Biden’s odd foreign hookups? Most likely the Trump Ukraine phone call was more leaker-catching by Trump. He puts false information into the ear of a suspected leaker then sees if it is published by the media. In this case it would not only catch the leaker but embarrass the media and intensify the heat on Creepy Corrupt Joe. What was the Vice President’s son doing collecting millions from Ukraine. What was Joe doing by threatening to withhold a billion dollars unless they axed the prosecutor who was about to interview Hunter Biden?

  43. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 10:23 am | Permalink

    I think you will see in reality what I have said all along: the President is at war with the criminal intelligence network. He was able to win and survive despite their best efforts to destroy him.

    I have heard you claim voter suppression but have not seen evidence of it. Are you sure there was not voter inflation in Detroit for example? It appears to be the opposite of what you think.

  44. iRobert
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 10:34 am | Permalink

    HW: “I have heard you claim voter suppression but have not seen evidence of it.”

    The evidence is often right out in plain sight. Voter suppression is widespread and I can give you extensive lists on the many tactics being used in many important races. I’ll do that when I have more time. I may even be able to find a link to when I’ve talked about it before on this blog.

    HW: “Are you sure there was not voter inflation in Detroit for example?”

    There are certainly some incidences of that, like the one you pointed out in Southfield. But these incidents are far more rare and involve far fewer votes generally. Voter suppression is massive and almost omnipresent in any competitive race of any significance.

    HW: “It appears to be the opposite of what you think.”

    It doesn’t. I’m certain if you put some effort in examining the data involved, you would quickly come to the same realization. Like I said, I will try to find something either of my own posting or of some article summarizing the massive nature of it. I’ll post it here to your attention when I do.

  45. iRobert
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    HW: “I think you will see in reality what I have said all along: the President is at war with the criminal intelligence network.”

    I think it’s apparent that the President isn’t doing anything but what handlers are telling him to do.

    HW: “He was able to win and survive despite their best efforts to destroy him.”

    I believe that effort was mostly just the Democrats and the Media going for the bait on the cover story, and then finding it didn’t pan out the way they would have expected. I’m still not convinced that those who installed him aren’t planning to let him drop now. Trump himself may have already served his purpose and usefulness from their perspective.

  46. Sad
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    The Education of Hyborian Warlord.

  47. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    But there were how many precincts in Detroit with wacky vote counts again? A high number if I recall correctly. That’s what I would call right out in plain sight.

  48. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    Don’t see how you can say I am being educated when I am the one who shows you over and over how it’s going to go and it does.

  49. iRobert
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 10:55 am | Permalink

    HW: “But there were how many precincts in Detroit with wacky vote counts again? A high number if I recall correctly. That’s what I would call right out in plain sight.”

    I don’t remember the numbers on all that, but I’ve seen far worse. In Detroit in 2018 the oddities were noticeable but not very unusual, and not significant enough to say they made a difference in the outcome of any race.

    If I were to just guess at the numbers, I’d say a few dozen precincts had discrepancies which did not involve more than a few votes.

    Suppression activities can reduce turnout in some precincts by considerable amounts, sometimes in the hundreds per precinct, and in hundreds of precincts.

    Electronic manipulation has added a whole new and dramatic dimension to all this too.

  50. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 10:57 am | Permalink

    2016 though

  51. Sad
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 10:59 am | Permalink

    HW are you missing how iRobert keeps trying to explain things to you?

    If you knew everything do you really think he would waste his time?

    You should be flattered that someone is taking an interest is trying to help you.

  52. iRobert
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    Anyway, we can discuss this more when I have the data I’d want to share.

    Here, I’d like to stick to talking about what is going on with Trump, partly out of respect to Mark’s chosen topic.

    I have an associate who has been rather astute in some predictions in the past, and he feels Trump is going to be discarded by those who installed him. He seems to feel Trump is to be the fall guy in terms of taking the blame for whatever they have in store. He’s been right about some similar things in the past, so it’s making me wonder if he’s on to anything there.

  53. iRobert
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    HW,

    Maybe we can find a thread which relates to the 2016 vote irregularities where you can post the numbers you’re talking about. I’d be happy to discuss it there.

    Sad,

    I don’t know why you want to sew hostility here where it doesn’t have to be. HW and I are just talking. I think he’s had some details I was glad he shared here. I think he’s at times brought something to the blog that others hadn’t.

  54. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    As I mentioned I haven’t heard any explanation of the claim of voter suppression in 2016. iRobert merely maintains that opinion as far as I have seen.

  55. iRobert
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 11:08 am | Permalink

    Sad,

    I understand you don’t like some people being taken seriously by anyone. But what the hell, what difference does it make to converse a little. Is it really such a horrible thing to you?

  56. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    “Maybe we can find a thread which relates to the 2016 vote irregularities where you can post the numbers you’re talking about. I’d be happy to discuss it there.”

    I talked about it a fair bit at the time and was met with the usual mindless derision. If you didn’t find out about it back then you can always use google to see the news as it was.

  57. iRobert
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 11:11 am | Permalink

    HW,

    I’ll see if I can find a previous discussion on the topic of voter suppression.

  58. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 11:13 am | Permalink

    Respect

  59. Eel
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    Tulsi appears to be holding strong against impeachment. All of you who support her suck.

    https://twitter.com/aseitzwald/status/1176507038832254977?s=21

  60. Posted September 24, 2019 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    To start, here’s a post from 2012 where Mark talks a bit about voter suppression. It’s informative:

    http://markmaynard.com/2012/09/voter-suppression-efforts-could-determine-the-election/#comments

  61. dogmatic dolt
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 11:28 am | Permalink

    Aloha iRobert, If you want info on voter suppression, the go to guy is Greg Palast. He has been following the consequences of the gutting of the Voting Rights Act since 2013. As I have pointed out repeatedly, there were 70,000 uncounted ballots from Detroit in 2016. Hillary in her wisdom decided to not contest the election, much as Gore ran away from the Florida recount battle in 2000. Democratic Party followers are blind to their own complicity–but here is a pretty good summary or how voter suppression worked in 2016.

    https://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/

  62. iRobert
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 11:36 am | Permalink

    Thank you, DD.

    That’s definitely something I think is helpful in getting a clearer picture of the magnitude of suppression.

    HW, I do also acknowledge that some pretty serious padding of extra votes has occurred in some significant races which worked in favor of Democratic candidates. I don’t want to be like EOS here and pretend one side isn’t guilty of anything ever.

  63. iRobert
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 11:42 am | Permalink

    Democrats generally don’t engage in voter suppression as it would almost never be in their favor. However, inflating numbers in low turnout precincts has happened and is something that typically favored the Democratic candidates.

    In Ohio in 2004, I saw astonishing things. I saw every trick I’ve ever heard of and several I hadn’t. It was truly astonishing. And then maybe just as astonishing was how many people chose to pretend they didn’t see what we all saw. That was a life-changing moment for me.

  64. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    I haven’t seen EOS pretend that. If I’m not mistaken EOS does not identify as a Republican. Same as myself and Frosted Flakes. EOS correct me if I have that wrong. Donald Trump has literally cleaned house with the many (compromised) republicans stepping down/not running again. It’s establishment dems/repubs vs. Trump and the white hats in military intelligence; Bush/Clinton/Obama era corruption in concert with the intelligence network vs. a storm of justice the likes of which has never been seen.

  65. dogmatic dolt
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    Aloha iRobert, Do not fall into the false equivalency trap. It is demonstrably obvious that HW is incapable of independent thinking. His mind bosses will not allow him to look outside the Qanon box. Unlike EOS, (who when push comes to shove will admit that Trump is bad, but given her/his liberal relativistic morality, sticks with his/her notion of lesser evil), HW sees Trump as the 2nd coming. As that other liberal relativistic morality champion of lesser evil voting JH points out it is useless to engage HW in discussion.

    The DNC is evidently going to let Tulsi participate in the next debate.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/24/tulsi-gabbard-qualifies-for-october-primary-debate-1509412?fbclid=IwAR341r51_YuhSO8XNBY3DlZ9_yBtGQpq-Euue-PqQK_JEYBT5Uo5OFEuboM

    Going to spend a couple of hours at the UAW picket at the parts distributor on Ecorse will help to lift my spirits–The boys and girls on the line are prepared to go to the mattresses on this one–not going to end anytime soon. The way to build communities of resistance is by finding other folks to resist with. Solidarity is a verb. Mutual aid requires action.

  66. iRobert
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 12:12 pm | Permalink

    I’m trying to get EOS to respond more honestly.

    DD, you don’t have to worry about me falling into a false equivalency trap, or anything else.

    I don’t find HW impossible to talk with about these things. And it doesn’t devastate me when we simply continue to disagree.

    In my opinion, anybody coming here to change minds is barking up the wrong tree. However, talking with people is certainly the best way to understand their point of view. I’m just interested in people’s point of view sometimes.

  67. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

    Based on your mischaracterizations I am pretty sure my perspective is more expanded than you can imagine, wobblie. Q only details realities I have sought to understand for a long time. You don’t even know what Q is so what do you think you doing making pronouncements about what I think about it?

  68. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    “HW sees Trump as the 2nd coming”

    No. I see what he is doing.

  69. iRobert
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    HW,

    In light of how the indictments seem to be indefinitely sealed, I’d say my characterization of their purpose seems more likely accurate now. If you remember, I suggested the sealed indictments are part of a mass extortion, control, or blackmail operation. It’s an effective method for keeping the troops in lockstep. Do you still feel they will all be unsealed? I predict only a few will be, in regard to those who get to out of line.

  70. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

    Troops? They are for criminals. I think there will be a holy hellstorm with the evidence to awaken just about everyone on the planet to what has been going on.

  71. John Brown
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    Dolt,

    Tulsi stands strongly against impeachment. WTF? Dont you have some pull with her?

    “Tulsi Gabbard won’t join fellow Democrats’ calls for impeachment: It would be ‘terribly divisive'” – during facetime on Faux Newsless today

  72. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    “If a republican did what Joe Biden has done they’d be getting the electric chair.”

    https://twitter.com/cjtruth/status/1176343820700704768

    Hyperbole or planting the seeds in the public sphere for the Storm? I think people are going to fry and with good reason.

  73. EOS
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 1:29 pm | Permalink

    Respond more honestly? You’ve got to be kidding.

    I don’t identify as a Republican, but I have voted for more Republicans than Democrats. I am a conservative, which means I couldn’t support Romney or McCain and had a hard time voting for either Bush for the 2nd terms. I usually vote 3rd party, which is easy in my district where there is seldom any chance of anyone but a Democrat getting elected. I voted for Trump because the State of Michigan was a toss-up. Didn’t really think he had a chance, but it was too close to vote for anyone else.

    Voting for the lesser of two evils doesn’t mean an acceptance or endorsement of their morals. Trump is not my Messiah nor do I worship him. But I thank God that He has been able to use him to accomplish some good.

    I thought Trump would be a disaster, but not as great as a disaster as Hilliary would have been. He has surprised me very much in the extent of good things he has been able to accomplish and I will vote for him again in a heartbeat.

  74. Sad
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 1:30 pm | Permalink

    Impeachment?

    Forget about it.

    Can’t we just elect someone? Oh yeah, we’d have to have someone inspiring to elect. Uh-uh.

    At least Trump is releasing the transcript.

    I hope it’s not another flop for us Dems.

  75. iRobert
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    Sad, I expect that it will be another flop. Democrats have to be careful not to be suckered into doing what the GOP strategy would need them to do. If I were a campaign adviser to Trump, I’d plan on doing all I could to get the Democrats to move forward with impeachment. Without the Senate being on board it’s only going to win Trump sympathy and make the Democrats look petty and obsessed. It’s a good way to eliminate the advantage the Dems have at the moment.

    EOS, I appreciate your openness in that last comment. Sometimes I’m not sure you realize you can be open and honest here. You are anonymous.

  76. Jean Henry
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    HW: impeachment is in fact initiated by the house. No need for the Senate. Impeachment is the hearing. Removal from office after impeachment requires the senate approval but not an impeachment hearing.

    Trump is saying he’ll release transcripts.
    This may be nothing.
    I’ll wait to find out.

    Everyone is talking out their assess without either release of transcripts or investigation.

    We should investigate the shit out of all politicians accused of corruption.

  77. Sad
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    Why are the Dems so obsessed with with removing Trump from office through some quasi- legal maneuvers instead of just using the electoral process?

  78. iRobert
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

    House Speaker Pelosi is about to announce formal impeachment inquiry of Trump

  79. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

    So what good would it do to impeach then? It just makes them look like losers.

  80. John Brown
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    Nothing quasi about it. Constitutional.

  81. Frosted Flakes
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    Flop at best.

  82. Jean Henry
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

    Because it’s our Co story too al responsibility about 10x over now SAD.
    It’s politically impractical for the Dems in the long run, but wise for primary candidates in the short run.
    Congress is the check on executive power. Mueller made that clear. They are ethically obligated to slow Trump’s roll. He is forever lowering the bar for acceptable presidential behavior.

    On a side note, this was an interesting comment in the NYT re Trump’s promise to release the transcript.

    “Releasing the transcript will neutralize the assertion of privilege that his attorneys claimed, which would eliminate any argument against releasing the whistleblower complaint in its entirety.

    I expect that Trump will change his story by tomorrow, on the advice of counsel.”

  83. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

    “We should investigate the shit out of all politicians accused of corruption.”

    Words to bite it by (for you). If this happens (again in the President’s case) the President will be fine but regardless Biden is fucked.

  84. Sad
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

    Oh shit.

    Four more miserable years of Trump plus an impeachment circus.

    Gag!

  85. Jean Henry
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

    ‘Co story too al responsibility’ = constitutional responsibility

  86. Jean Henry
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

    IRobert is about 4 hours behind on breaking news.

  87. Posted September 24, 2019 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    Oh, really, Jean. Pelosi hasn’t made the formal announcement.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/live/

  88. iRobert
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    In Jean’s mind Pelosi has already announced.

  89. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 2:20 pm | Permalink

    Imagine going around making false assumptions all day every day like Jean and not being able to admit it. It must be hell.

  90. Posted September 24, 2019 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

    Biden is about to make a statement.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/live/

  91. EOS
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

    And exactly what is the “high crime and misdemeanor” supposed to have been today? Asking a foreign power to investigate the criminal activities of an American citizen within the borders of another sovereign nation? Or are we rolling this into all the former collusion/obstruction/etc charges that didn’t fly previously?

  92. Posted September 24, 2019 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    Democratic leaders are meeting at 4pm to decide how to proceed with impeachment.

  93. Sad
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

    I wish CNN would broadcast that meeting live.

  94. Bob
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

    5 pm. It’s on

  95. dogmatic dolt
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    Aloha EOS, Back from a very pleasant walk on the line. Great weather for it. Thank you for that statement as well. Trying to follow principles in a world of relativity is difficult. I suspect a great many Trump supporters are more like you than HW. The Democratic Party Leadership seems to be pretty committed to protecting high levels of corruption. Trump is willing to expose some of that corruption to the public—how much of it is “illegal” is of course debatable. Same with Trump’s venality and enrichment of his family–how much is “illegal” (nepotism used to be thought of as unethical–you know that whole meritocracy that was supposed to be the American Dream) ? We have a had a bi-partisan program of personal enrichment at the public’s expense for a generation now.

    The really important questions of course are being ignored in all this corruption, like war with Iran. Your Leader just sent a brigade or more of US troops to defend the family of Saud. He tore up a multi-national Senate ratified treaty with Iran and is leading us inextricably towards war. We have mobilized our US Navy transport fleet, ie. we are preparing to send a great many more troop to the middle east. Only 13% of Americans are in favor of these actions. If the Democrats want to impeach Trump, put this at the top of the list of crimes.

    Tulsi has the courage of her convictions. We won’t be the house of Saud’s bitch, We will end our support for the war in Yeman, We will reenter the Iran nuclear deal. We will start building a future based on cooperation rather than conflict.

  96. dogmatic dolt
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

    Aloha JH, Your analysis of the impeachment process is not quit correct. Impeachment by the House of Representative lay out the charges against the President. It collects the evidence in support of those charges. The Senate Hears the charges, and puts the evidence on trial. The Defendant is allowed to attack the evidence and the charges. The Senate then votes on removal from office based on that hearing.

    EOS, “And exactly what is the “high crime and misdemeanor” supposed to have been today? Asking a foreign power to investigate the criminal activities of an American citizen within the borders of another sovereign nation?” There is nothing criminal or even unpolitical in your statement. Now add the following facts. Several weeks before the phone call Trump, in violation of authorized expenditures by the House refused to forward funds to the Ukrainian government. If in the course of that conversation with a foreign power Trump said some thing to the effect of –if you investigate Biden, the trouble we are having with getting those appropriations to you might get resolved quicker—then you have a quid pro quo–it is called bribery. High Crime.

    This is all supposition and why calls for impeachment (yet again) are distractions from issues that are more important. As Tulsi (and Pelosi) have said, investigate (that’s our job), and if evidence of impeachable offenses are discovered–then impeach.

  97. EOS
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    So if the Ukrainian government was dragging their feet in investigating the criminal activities of American citizens within their borders, then it is really an impeachable offense to threaten to likewise drag his feet in releasing funds appropriated by Congress? So it is not within the executive role to administer the funds that had been allocated? Did he ultimately release the funds? And did he receive the quid pro quo prior to releasing the funds? Did he personally benefit prior to the release of the funds? Or were his actions for the ultimate benefit of law abiding citizens? As the President of the United States, is he prohibited from investigating criminal acts that have been potentially committed by anyone who may become a political opponent for office? The accusation doesn’t amount to a hill of beans.

  98. Jean Henry
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

    Once more for the bleachers: impeachment is the equivalent of charges being brought against a leader and is followed by an investigation. It is NOT removal from office.

    ‘Impeachment is the process by which a legislative body levels charges against a government official. It does not mean removal from office; it is only a statement of charges, akin to an indictment in criminal law. Once an individual is impeached, he or she must then face the possibility of conviction by a legislative vote, which judgment entails removal from office.’

  99. Jean Henry
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

    Clinton was impeached for lying about The Lewinski affair.

    I can’t believe that EOS thinks nothing of all that Trump has done rises to that level of violation.

    Confirmation bias is a bitch I guess

  100. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    “Once more for the bleachers: impeachment is the equivalent of charges being brought against a leader and is followed by an investigation. It is NOT removal from office.”

    Everyone knows this, dick.

  101. Jean Henry
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    Read the comments HW. It’s apparent not everyone gets it. Especially EOS who apparently thinks a crime must be proven before it’s investigated. Except in Biden’s case.

  102. Jean Henry
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/24/us/politics/impeachment-trump-explained.html

  103. iRobert
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

    From WREX:

    “The GOP-controlled Senate has approved a nonbinding but symbolically important resolution calling on the Trump administration to immediately provide the House and Senate intelligence committees a copy of a whistleblower complaint involving President Donald Trump.

    The measure put forward by Minority Leader Chuck Schumer passed by voice vote after Majority Leader Mitch McConnell endorsed the idea and noted that the bipartisan leadership of the Senate Intelligence Committee was working behind the scenes to obtain the complaint.”

  104. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

    I do not see what you see in EOS’ posts. With quotes show why you “EOS…apparently thinks a crime must be proven before it’s investigated. Except in Biden’s case.”

  105. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

    show why you *say*

  106. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

    “The GOP-controlled Senate has approved a nonbinding but symbolically important resolution calling on the Trump administration to immediately provide the House and Senate intelligence committees a copy of a whistleblower complaint involving President Donald Trump.
    The measure put forward by Minority Leader Chuck Schumer passed by voice vote after Majority Leader Mitch McConnell endorsed the idea and noted that the bipartisan leadership of the Senate Intelligence Committee was working behind the scenes to obtain the complaint.”

    Too late. He already said it’s coming out tomorrow. It’s like trying to say “You can’t fire me because I quit!”…after you get fired. Or “You can’t dump me because I’m dumping you!” after your baby puts you down. The repubs probably know there is nothing to it and the dems will have stepped in it.

  107. Sad
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

    Well.

    At least we’ll get to see if impeachment helps or hurts Trump.

    And we’ll know who’s responsible for pursuing the impeachment efforts if it turns out poorly.

  108. iRobert
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

    Sad: “And we’ll know who’s responsible for pursuing the impeachment efforts if it turns out poorly.”

    You mean Mark, right?

  109. Pater Nostril
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

    Debbie Dingell finally did the right thing

  110. Sad
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

    I was thinking more about members of Congress.

    Nice try though. I don’t know why you want to sew hostility here where it doesn’t have to be.

  111. Cesar Neruda
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

    To celebrate, give Debbie Dingell a call to thank her for supporting an impeachment inquiry. (313)278-2936

  112. Sad
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 8:39 pm | Permalink

    It’s the first time I’ve been disappointed by AOC.

  113. stupid hick
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

    “He has surprised me very much in the extent of good things he has been able to accomplish and I will vote for him again in a heartbeat.”

    Well then, I was wrong about you. I thought you had better judgement. Trump is completely unfit to lead. The only thing he’s good at is bullshitting and self-dealing. He’s a complete disaster.

  114. iRobert
    Posted September 24, 2019 at 11:57 pm | Permalink

    Sad: “I was thinking more about members of Congress.
    Nice try though. I don’t know why you want to sew hostility here where it doesn’t have to be.”

    I was joking. I don’t really hate Mark, or blame him for anything. I assume nobody else would either.

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