The Trump administration uses press conference footage deceptively edited by InfoWars to justify the banning of CNN’s Jim Acosta

Yesterday, when I posted about how Donald Trump had installed someone as acting Attorney General who has said publicly that the Mueller investigation should be stopped, I made a brief mention of the fact that CNN White House correspondent Jim Acosta, on the same day, had his press credentials revoked after refusing to stop a line of questioning that Donald Trump didn’t like. I was tempted to go further into the story at that time, as I suspected that people might want to discuss it, but I ultimately came to decide that I should stay focused on the real threat at hand, which is that Donald Trump seems to be putting the pieces in place to stop the Mueller investigation, which, just to remind everyone, has already yielded dozens of indictments, and guilty please from several Trump campaign insiders, like George Papadopoulos, Paul Manafort, Rick Gates, and Michael Flynn. And my plan tonight was to say on Trump’s appointment of Matthew Whitaker as acting Attorney General, getting into a little more detail as to what we might expect in the coming days… but then I read this CNN headline, and I felt compelled to share it.

White House press secretary tweets misleading video from InfoWars personality to justify revoking CNN reporter’s credentials

Here, before we get any further into the analysis, is the tweet from Sarah Huckabee Sanders, which was put out after she issued a statement saying that Acosta’s press credentials had been revoked because he was “placing his hands” on a young White House intern.

This video, according to experts, as alluded to in the CNN headline above, has been edited to emphasize the chopping motion of Acosta’s hand as the young woman tries to pull the microphone from him hand, with some frames deleted, some frames duplicated, and some frames sped up. Here, for those of you who haven’t seen it, is the actual, unedited footage of the incident, so you can appreciate the difference… As for who altered the film shared by Sanders, it’s being attributed to Paul Joseph Watson, an editor-at-large for the pro-Trump conspiracy theory website InfoWars, which, I should note, has now had its incendiary, false content pulled from most social medial platforms.

Sanders, it should be noted, was made aware of the fact that the footage she shared to justify Acosta’s removal from the White House grounds was deceptively edited by InfoWars earlier in the day, and yet this post is still pinned to the top other official Twitter page.

The following excerpt comes by way of the CNN article linked to above.

…In a Thursday afternoon statement, Whitney Shefte, president of the White House News Photographers Association, said, “As visual journalists, we know that manipulating images is manipulating truth. It’s deceptive, dangerous and unethical. Knowingly sharing manipulated images is equally problematic, particularly when the person sharing them is a representative of our country’s highest office with vast influence over public opinion.”

At BuzzFeed, Charlie Warzel summed up those concerns, writing, “The entire ordeal is a near-perfect example of a scenario disinformation experts have predicted and warned of, where the very threat of video manipulation can lead to a blurring of reality.”

So, a member of the press, who the President does not like, has been barred from covering the White House, and the Trump administration is justifying the move with deceptively edited video, presented within the context of the increasingly weaponized “me too” movement. This, my friends, should scare the shit out of all of you.

But, really, does this surprise anyone? Didn’t we all know exactly where things were headed two years ago, when we set out on this journey across the post-fact landscape of Donald Trump’s mind?

[If you haven’t yet, I’d encourage you to watch the entire press conference, which is absolutely bonkers, and completely terrifying, from start to finish.]

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95 Comments

  1. Posted November 8, 2018 at 10:02 pm | Permalink

    As good as this part of the press conference was, my favorite part was when Donald Trump named all of the Republicans who “didn’t want the embrace,” and, according to him, lost as a result. [He claimed that everyone who wanted his public embrace won, which isn’t even remotely true, as several people that he endorsed lost their races.]

  2. Dan Pfeiffer by proxy
    Posted November 8, 2018 at 10:17 pm | Permalink


    The White House Press Secretary releasing to the public a doctored video from a group that claims the Newtown massacre was faked is something we shouldn’t gloss over

    https://twitter.com/danpfeiffer/status/1060719205673095168

  3. EOS
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 1:25 am | Permalink

    Wow, Mark Maynard uses deceptively edited press conference footage to accuse Trump of unfairly revoking press credentials. Why did you splice out the multiple questions asked by Acosta and answered by Trump prior to the intern trying to take the mike away? Why did you omit the footage showing Acosta interrupting and shouting over another reporter’s question? How long does any one reporter expect to hold the floor and express his personal views while the rest of the assembled reporters are denied an a opportunity to ask their own questions? After two years of rude and obnoxious questions and failure to show appropriate decorum to the President of the United States and leader of the free world, he should have his credentials revoked for the duration of Trump’s administration.

  4. Sad
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 6:34 am | Permalink

    I agree EOS. I would take it a bit farther though. President Trump should pull down his pants and give him a good spanking. Don’t you agree HW?

  5. iRobert
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 7:38 am | Permalink

    EOS, you and I both know you’d be backing up everything Mark is saying if Trump a Democrat rather than a Republican, all other details being the same.

  6. iRobert
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 7:40 am | Permalink

    I don’t know how I left out the word “were” in my last comment. It’s either autocorrect or Alzheimer’s. I refuse to believe I would do such a thing otherwise.

  7. John Brown
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 7:41 am | Permalink

    Sad, good one. Thats the problem with many holy rollers. They “believe” in an inherently abusive patriarchal figure, and in exchange get to avoid personal responsibility for everything with any degree of separation from them whatsoever. Lazy, deluded, morons.

    Just try to find an “abortion is murder” culty who will express genuine guilt for their role in the mass proliferation of domestic gun availability, the mass murders, and the private paramilitaries that have risen from this culture. Its as if they cant comprehend the simple fact that this is a direct result of THEM voting Republican the past 30 yrs.

  8. M
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 7:46 am | Permalink

    You might have a point, EOS, if they’d said that Acosta’s credentials had been revoked because he was “rude and obnoxious”. That isn’t what they said, though. They said it’s because he assaulted a White House staff member, which he clearly did not do.

  9. EOS
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 8:34 am | Permalink

    No, I don’t know that Robert. The ends do not justify the means. Integrity is still important to some of us.

    M – I distinctly heard Trump call his actions rude. Some one else may have said he assaulted a White House staff member. They are not mutually exclusive. I wouldn’t call it an assault myself, but I think is it defined as such in a court of law. If you touch someone it is a tort that could incur a civil liability. Both the intern and the reporter could sue. I imagine both cases would be thrown out of court.

  10. wobblie
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 8:43 am | Permalink

    EOS everyday you demonstrate you are mindless white walker incapable of rational thought. The official White House position as articulated by its press spokes woman was because he engaged in inappropriate touching. Your attempt to justify the obvious lies only speaks to your inability to engage in critical human thought.

  11. iRobert
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    EOS, you know your positions turn 180 degrees depending on which party is involved. We’re all aware of it. It’s clear you think it’s all just a game. I assume you’re denial and claim that you don’t see that is also part of that game in your mind. It’s unfortunate that you, and so many others on both sides ascribe to this absolute relativism. It’s doing terrible damage to genuine discussion and debate.

  12. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    It’s supposed to be a press conference not a forcible harrasment of the President by one guy who decides he has the floor and he is going to keep it no matter what. He should have sat down before an intern had to try to take away his mic. Using physical force to stop her from doing her job and disrupt the conference is out of the question.

  13. EOS
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    Can you give me a specific example Robert? It should be easy if I do it all the time.

  14. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    I’m confused. Putting the apparently doctored footage aside . What do you guys think Jim Acosta didn’t do? Where do you draw the line on acceptable/unacceptable behavior at a press conference with the president? Also, why should we care? Do you really think Acosta is some kind of great journalist getting to the truth? Trump answered his question. He actually answered his second question after he was asked to pass the mic. Are you guys thinking Acosta for president? What is so problematic here?

    I read somebody saying the contact was accidental, as if he was not aware her arm was there. Clearly that is not true. Acosta blocked her twice by twisting his body and shifting the mic away from her and then when she got a good grip on the microphone he forcibly drew the mic toward his chest and then his arm met hers in a downward motion. What world is that behavior not deserving of some sort of punishment? I wouldn’t go so far as assault personally but it is somewhere in a grey area by todays standards, no?

  15. John Brown
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    All them incel Nazis gonna be fantasizing about that white house intern “grabbing their mic”. Dana Loesch better watch out!

  16. EOS
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 10:15 am | Permalink

    OK I had to look up absolute relativism. Never heard the term before. I’m the exact opposite as many on this site can attest. I’ve been accused of seeing everything in black and white. Truth isn’t relative. It’s not my truth or your truth, but one truth. I don’t believe in situational ethics. I believe in the same standards for all.

    Do I believe that? Absolutely.

  17. John Brown
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    So explain how you reconcile voting for the party of the NRA that has saturated society with guns and your share of responsibility for the thousands of resulting gun deaths?

    Doublespeak. Google that next.

  18. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    Wobblie,

    So, the whitehouse said Acosta was “inappropriate touching” and not “assault”? That makes more sense right? I mean what should we call what Acosta did? I am not sure. He did something. It was not appropriate. It involved touching.

    How is EOS proving to be irrational? I don’t follow.

  19. M
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 10:50 am | Permalink

    Trump says the footage wasn’t altered.

    From CBS News’ Mark Knoller:

    “Pres indicates other reporters besides @Acosta might have their press passes suspended. Disputes that video posted by @PressSec of @Acosta brushing aside hand of WH aide was doctored. “Nobody manipulated it. Give me a break,” said @POTUS. He said video showed a closeup.”

    https://twitter.com/markknoller/status/1060920584908009472

  20. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 11:03 am | Permalink

    M,

    I have been searching around the internet trying to find where it was said that the reason for revoking Acosta’s press pass is because he “assaulted” her. Can you provide the link. I am not seeing it anywhere.

    I did read that Acosta said he did not touch her but he appears to have touched her, no?

    All I can find is that Sanders said he “placed his hands on her”. He put his hands on her, no?

    So, EOS has a point, no?

  21. EOS
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    https://youtu.be/zo7ORobbXPw

  22. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 11:21 am | Permalink

    Thank you EOS.

  23. EOS
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

    FF,

    No, Thank you for your well written and reasonable posts.

  24. wobblie
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

    Everything about this administration is based on lies. The Trumper stated all of the candidates that embraced him won, while those that didn’t lost. According to the Brookings institute Trump endorsed 75 candidates in this election cycle. 21 actually won. Lies are all that emit from his foul mouth.

    I tried to watch your link EOS, but what do the Clinton’s have to do with this? Another classic example of misdirection–which is ultimately another form lieing. According to your favorite site, “White House press secretary Sarah Sanders confirmed Acosta’s tweet in a statement, claiming the suspension of his press credentials stemmed from his “placing his hands on a young woman just trying to do her job as a White House intern.” She called the behavior “absolutely unacceptable.”

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cnns-jim-acosta-press-pass-suspended-by-white-house-sarah-sanders-announces

    Later on they modified Huckubee’s statement, to “”The question is: did the reporter make contact or not? The video is clear, he did. We stand by our statement,” she said.

    To the mindless white walkers, “reporter make contact” is synonyms with “placing his hands on” . When your whole life is built around lies and fabrications one is unable to differentiate truth from falsehood, as EOS frequently demonstrates.

  25. wobbliew
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

    Every word the man utters is a falsehood. He tells so many lies that he can not keep them straight. Counts on the white walkers to not care what he says (he was right, he could murder some one on 5th. Ave and EOS and the rest would not care) or how confused his lies become.

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/11/busted-trump-denies-knowing-matt-whitaker-one-month-saying-know-matt-whitaker-fox-interview/

  26. wobblie
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

    I wonder what is happening with the refugee caravan and the 15,000 troops our President says he ordered to the border—More lies no doubt.

  27. John Brown
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

    Hey deplorables! All the blood from all the mass killings since the assault weapons ban was overturned are on you! Real, actual people with families who had their blood spilled out onto the floors of bars and synagogues because you cant tell delusion from reality.

    The proud deplorables support Agent Oranges suppressing the truth because their numb-skulls are already on the verge of exploding from cognitive dissonance.

    Body Slamming a reporter good. Trying to hold onto mic when so called president flauts 1st amendment bad. Got it.

  28. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

    Wobblie,

    I am trying hard to figure out what your last comment is even supposed to mean. Is your main point that “putting hands on” is drastically different from making physical “contact” with your hands?

    I like The white walker line because I like that show;but you might want to be careful because people might start using that line to describe you guys. It’s like you guys traded in your eyes, brains, and all of your instincts for the truth for your precious twitter accounts.

  29. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

    Oops, I was referring to your second to last comment.

  30. wobblie
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

    FF, “laying hands on” is clearly different than “made contact with”. One describes an intentional act that could be considered assault. You have never heard anyone “say you better no lay hands on me”? Making contact can clearly be unintentional. The right continuously engages in obfuscation. Have you heard a single mention from the President about the “caravan” since the election? The way civilized people would have dealt with Acosta would have been to turn the mic off. That has happened before during Presidential Press Conferences.
    Of course you make no comment about the continues lies coming out of the Presidents mouth. The fact that you are more interested in Acosta, than in these lies says much.

  31. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    Semantics.

    Counterexample: “The last punch made contact resulting in a knockout”.

    In your mind, a lot seems to hinge on intentionality . Fine. What proof do you have that he did not intentionally touch her?

    Is Acosta’s claim that he did not touch her true or false?

  32. iRobert
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

    I do agree with EOS and Frosted Flakes that Acosta conducted himself inappropriately.

    I also think everyone should denounce the self-described “Antifa” who threatened Tucker Carlson and damaged his property. They were a mob of idiots with no good purpose. In this country, we cannot not allow idiots to threaten people or property for any reason.

  33. Dave Morris
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

    EOS – is your alias pronounced ” ē ō es ” or ” ‘ē,äs ” ?

  34. iRobert
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

    “We cannot allow idiots to threaten people or damage property for any reason.” …is what I meant to say.

    This is more hostility directed at the press and pundits. There is no excuse for it.

    I don’t know if Acosta deserved to have his credentials revoked, but I do think he behaved badly. Trump did as well. Everybody needs to calm down and at least pretend they know how to behave civilly.

  35. Kim
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

    John Brown for the win:

    “Body Slamming a reporter good. Trying to hold onto mic when so called president flauts 1st amendment bad. Got it.”

  36. Sad
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

    I thought there was no place for civility in the face of fascism?

  37. John Brown
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

    iRobert, so you seriously blame Acosta, or anyone, for getting frustrated when confronted with continuous gaslighting, flat out lying, and the threat of stochastic terrorism? Get out of here! That take sounds like Agent Orange “fine people on both sides”. CNN got mail bombs from Agent Orange By Proxy not 2 weeks ago ffs.

  38. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    Now the supposed reason Acosta was punished was because he got “frustrated”?

    I sure hope you guys are having fun in twitter, Facebook, and Instagram because your brains have turned to mush.

  39. iRobert
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    John Brown, I blame Acosta and Trump, and everyone else in our society who can’t conduct themselves with basic civility. Acosta was behaving badly. Trump frequently behaves badly.

  40. EOS
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

    Dave,

    It’s just letters. I started out as “edge of the sprawl” in a discussion about disliking urban environments.

  41. John Brown
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

    iRobert, you should recall that in Agent Oranges case we’re all dealing with a malignant Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Their whole schtick is to drive sane people nuts, and then project the blame onto the victim for the resulting bad behavior. Frankly I wouldn’t blame them if the entire press Corp rushed the podium and stabbed him with their pens.

    It’s hardly apples to apples. Rewatch that whole thing. Calling the black lady the racist is a good example. How the fuck do you respond civilly to such a gross distortion of reality? I’d have said “fuck you, stop with your psychological warfare on Americans”.

  42. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

    In our last session you said:” Their whole schtick is to drive sane people nuts..”

    Would you like to say anything more about that?

  43. Dave Morris
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

    EOS –

    Thanks. Helps when I am reading the comments.

    My daughter asked me and my wife the other day if we hear a voice in our heads when we think and read, and the answer was yes. There is an internal vocalization. I find also that when I am trying to listen carefully, I am sometimes aware that I am repeating internally what I am hearing almost to the point of overlap with the speaker to make sure it is sinking in. Other times, the near overlap is broken by unknown terms or ambiguous intent due to added inflections or subtle motions meant to invert meaning. I am horrible with irony for this reason.

    You’d think that removing the element of subtle gestures and vocal inflections would make it easier to communicate through screens and characters. It seems even more difficult though. Sincerity is more difficult to detect. We seem to need that person to person dialogue to fully understand each other… the texture of one’s voice, their gaze, how they comport themselves, etc.

    Anyways, at least that element of this crippled form of dialogue is cleared up. When I silently read the comments I will now read your alias as was intended phonetically.

    You have me curious now about your dislike of urban environments. What in particular about urban environments do you dislike? The engineered systems that are falling apart as soon as they are built? The aesthetics of a built environment centered on consumption vs one built around production? Something about the character of people?

  44. EOS
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

    Dave,

    There was an urban planner who frequently posted, who wanted lots of mass transit throughout the county even though, in my opinion, there are only two communities that can do this in a cost effective manner. He thought it was better to concentrate people in small geographic areas so that services would be less costly. He advocated for raising the price of gasoline to the point where everyone would give up their cars and move to the cities. He warned me that soon the sprawl would reach my doorstep, and I would find that I would be in a densely populated area. But then, I would move again, to the new edge of the sprawl.

    I prefer to live on the more sparsely populated edge. To be near enough to the city to take advantage of plentiful jobs and healthcare, but to escape to a more natural environment a the end of my workday, with woods, trees, fields, and wildlife. I enjoy the freedom my personal car allows, to come and go when I want and not on a preordained schedule. I like people, but I also enjoy being alone at times.

    Myself, I am a visual learner. I like the written word and I like that it allows you to carefully choose your words to communicate more effectively.

  45. Jean Henry
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

    It kind of cracks me up that the same people who dismiss accusations of sexual assault and aggressive exposure from a Supreme Court nominee are expressing this degree of concern about a reporter making the most limited contact necessary to secure his mic from an intern who was forcefully grabbing it away from him. And then he apologized. Like right away. Not decades later. Not even after he got ‘caught.’

    They assert a double standard so often I’m sure it simply makes sense to them at this point.

  46. Jean Henry
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

    iRobert calls for a return to civility again– the same guy who declared re DeBlasey Ford’s accusations (to wit) “It’s a completely normal experience; It’s not rape afterall or anything like it.”

    I think I see what your idea of civil society looks like, iRobert, and I’m not interested in it. No doubt you don’t care about my feelings about it, or those of anyone like me.

  47. EOS
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    Well, in one instance we have video evidence while in the other, even the woman’s family and friends can’t corroborate.

  48. Jean Henry
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

    Uh huh, EOS…

    This is not related but it is tangentially related to all of it. It’s also great. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/04/the-american-civil-war-didnt-end-and-trump-is-a-confederate-president

  49. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

    I did not dismiss accussations against of Kavanaugh. It was noted he was accused but he was accused without any supporting evidence. What are we supposed to do with that kind of accusation?

    By “dismiss” you mean we were unwilling to use an accusation against him. Yeah! No kidding. We did exactly what we were supposed to do. The corrupt left seems to not care about abiding to moral principles, truth, or evidence.

    A bunch of nightwalkers addicted to their twitter account feeds.

  50. Sad
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

    EOS your response to Dave was the first time I’ve seen anything from you that seemed human.

    Ha – look – the time stamp on the post are correct again.

  51. Dave Morris
    Posted November 10, 2018 at 12:37 am | Permalink

    EOS –

    I grew up on what was the “edge of the sprawl” at the time… NE of Ypsi in Canton. Worked on Hauk Farms in the summer picking sweet corn out around Geddes and Ridge for Eastern Market and Farmer Jack’s. We’d spend all day as kids in the forests and fields, then home to our brick 70’s ranch for dinner. I miss the sound of crickets in the summer and frogs in the spring. Superior Township would be deafening with their chirping along Prospect. The defining sound at my Seattle house is the 41 Metro stopping every 7.5 minutes with the occasional shouting of someone in crisis.

    I remember taking a poltical science class at Schoolcraft way back in the day. Prereqs before going to EMU. One assignment was to go to a city hall meeting. I went to one in Canton. At that meeting, there were a few farmers who were visibly upset from the get go. There were also men there with suits and suitcases. The topic was rezoning along Ford road. The men in suits were advocating for changing it from agricultural to residential / commercial. The farmers were yelling about their livelihood being threatened and being forced off their land. The city council was making decisions about highest and best use of land that was already being productively used by someone.

    Would it be more accurate to say that you dislike urban planning rather than urban environments? Or do you see the two as hand in hand?

    I am curious about this because it seems to be at the heart of this larger division in the country. There is a professional class that in a very real sense governs many aspects of our lives, and for many that means being left behind by “progress” rather than being valued and having a function.

    I have returned to my Catholic faith as a result of questions like this. I believe every human life has worth and dignity, however hard in practice it is to accept that. I see that as foundational to a sense of community.

  52. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 10, 2018 at 4:57 am | Permalink

    Oops. A botched attempt,on my part, to throw Wobblie’s insult back at him. I meant to say “white walker” not “night walker”.

  53. iRobert
    Posted November 10, 2018 at 5:25 am | Permalink

    Don’t ever misquote me, Jean. You’re a disgusting person to do such a thing.

  54. iRobert
    Posted November 10, 2018 at 5:30 am | Permalink

    By the way, Jean, I’m not calling for civility. I’m saying idiots like you can’t even pretend to be civil. Can’t you comprehend the difference?

  55. iRobert
    Posted November 10, 2018 at 5:41 am | Permalink

    John Brown, there are always ways to respond civilly. I agree with your characterizations of Trump, but there are no excuses for the poor job the press is doing. They’re grandstanding fools trying to appear heroic. That wouldn’t be so bad, except they’re too stupid to use any effective strategy. We might as well put Jean Henry in the press pool.

  56. Flower Grandpa
    Posted November 10, 2018 at 7:13 am | Permalink

    Dave – that’s what happened here in Ann Arbor with Prop A. All the professionals, and experts, and intellectuals kept telling us we couldn’t have a park downtown. It wouldn’t work, we didn’t need it, it wasn’t the best use of the property. But a lot of us just wanted a spot in the center of the city to sit without having to buy something. Just a goddamn bench and some plants. And for that we were attacked as greedy, selfish, stupid and backwards. They wanted a high rise and all the money it would generate. But we won. I’m not a Christian but the vote renewed my faith in people and their ability to see what’s truly important. Hopefully in a few years when you’re in the area you’ll visit Ann Arbor and see our park.

    Thanks to everyone who voted yes on Prop A.

  57. wobblie
    Posted November 10, 2018 at 7:41 am | Permalink

    Dave Morris, I appreciate your comments on your idyllic 70’s childhood. It does not matter where you live, the frogs are almost all gone. We are well on our way to wiping out the crickets, so you here them less and less where ever you live. Even lightening bugs are in steep decline. One of the main causes of the steep decline in insects and amphibians is the continues expansion of urban sprawl caused by folks who have the material means to “live on the edge of sprawl”. With manicured lawns, constant applications of insecticides, herbicides, and pavement, habitat disappears or is transformed.

  58. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 10, 2018 at 7:43 am | Permalink

    “Jean Henry
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 7:10 pm | Permalink
    It kind of cracks me up that the same people who dismiss accusations of sexual assault and aggressive exposure from a Supreme Court nominee are expressing this degree of concern about a reporter making the most limited contact necessary to secure his mic from an intern who was forcefully grabbing it away from him. And then he apologized. Like right away. Not decades later. Not even after he got ‘caught.’
    They assert a double standard so often I’m sure it simply makes sense to them at this point.”

    Access to the White House is a privilege. Taking that away from one reporter for what everyone saw them do is nothing compared to altering the course of history with no evidence but someone’s uncorroborated word.

  59. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 10, 2018 at 7:52 am | Permalink

    What does Mark think the difference is between the raw vid and the AJ vid? I’m not appreciating the difference. Obviously the offending action is shown close up and repeated. What is wrong with that though? Bizarre complaint

  60. Jean Henry
    Posted November 10, 2018 at 8:07 am | Permalink

    iRobert Did you catch my ‘to wit’ in there? I couldn’t find the post to quote you directly. Did you not mean to say that is was a normal teen experience and not rape after all? What did I get wrong there?

    PS you turn uncivil very quickly when criticized. Imagine how uncivil you would be if you were part of a group that was oppressed. You know like part of a group whose bodily autonomy was regularly threatened.

  61. wobblie
    Posted November 10, 2018 at 8:10 am | Permalink

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/man-arrested-for-terroristic-death-threats-against-cnns-don-lemon/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab6a&linkId=59371974

  62. Jean Henry
    Posted November 10, 2018 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    Flower Grandpa– The greenbelt protections in Ann Arbor preserve the experience and livelihoods Dave referred to, not a pocket park in downtown. There are 159 parks in Ann Arbor, many within a few blocks of your tiny central park. including liberty square one block away which has the benches and potted plants to which you refer and is comparable in size. And density downtown allows us to have those greenbelt protections and still grow, or at least have the capacity to grow, if people like you weren’t privileging your own interests over the poor and working class. Sometimes people are called greedy because they are.

    PS the jury is still out on whether a park is feasible there. An underinformed vote in favor on a deceptive ballot proposal doesn’t mean the experts were wrong. (How Trumpian can you be to suggest otherwise?) Talk to you in a few years.

  63. wobblie
    Posted November 10, 2018 at 8:20 am | Permalink

    More white christian nationalist terrorism is on its way.
    https://www.mintpressnews.com/251687-2/251687/?fbclid=IwAR2UuDROqJMPDPvWhecymS01_5bL55hlQQ_UOBvqJNCv6xZekD7JG1GYqDE

  64. Jean Henry
    Posted November 10, 2018 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    HW– If there is no difference why did Alex Jones re-edit the footage that the WH chose to share to validate their action?

    A Whitehouse press pass is a privilege but so is being a supreme court justice. Freedom of the press is a civil right just as the ability to redress grievances in court. Both matter and the integrity of both are threatened by the Trump administration’s autocratic methods.

    Please note that I was comparing the purported offensive actions of both men and you pivoted to comparing the cost to both men of being accused. Please also note that Acosta paid a cost while Kavanaugh was afforded a Senate hearing to make his case and paid none.

  65. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 10, 2018 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    You don’t know what a close-up is for? And you think showing the action repeatedly is deception? Not too fuckin’ bright are you?

  66. Dave Morris
    Posted November 10, 2018 at 9:08 am | Permalink

    Wobblie –

    I miss the fireflies too. And I was very fortunate for the life and experiences I had as a kid. I know now what was sacrificed for my comfort. The old orchard that was there before my sub and its way of life. All the labor and resources that provided us with creature comforts at the expense of forests, watersheds, neighborhoods, other people’s health and comfort. All the professional services and engineered systems that smoothed over life’s rough edges, that swept away all our waste to landfills and treatment plants. All this was invisible to me at the time.

    A few months back, EOS asked for advice on flowers for his front yard. My immediate thought was milkweed, and before I could respond Jean had already suggested it. Jean – that was a wonderful synchronicity. The milkweed was such an interesting plant. The monarch butterfiles loved it, and I would watch them perch on the plants in an unmowed field between a forest and irrigation ditch by the high school down the street from me. The plant had these flower pods that contained these silky strands, and when you broke the stems a sap would ooze out that was the consistencey of elmer’s glue. I learned much later about the monarch migrations and the importance of milkweed to them. Milkweed needs a place to grow.

    I think often about an idealized rural life, usually on my commutes. I think about how I am part of this system that is destroying Truth, Goodness, and Beauty… the three things I keep telling my kid to look for in life if she wants to know God. I keep driving my car at an average speed of 17 miles an hour during commute and asking myself why. And the reason is fear of discomfort, poverty, and death. I spend my days building a buffer against these… for myself and my family…. at the expense of forests, watersheds, neighborhoods, other people’s health and comfort.

    Mark – I am curious if you know of Wendell Berry. There is a documentary about him on Netflix called “Look and See”. Here is the trailer:

    https://lookandseefilm.com/trailer

  67. wobblie
    Posted November 10, 2018 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    DM, Nature is extremely resilient. If we can stop the insane profit driven carbon industries from destroying the atmosphere our species has a chance. Religions require acts of faith. And through that faith you know “God”. Believing that we as a species can arrest and reverse the effects of human caused climate change (despite all the evidence) is a supreme act of faith.

    Individuals like EOS have given up on people–having faith in a supreme being “saving” you either spiritually or materially (the rapture and final judgement call for you to have your physical body) makes human actions irrelevant. All that matters is you and your individual “faith”. With Christianities “forgive all” theology, you can live a hedonistic and self centered existence causing pain and suffering to all around you with no consequences in the “hereafter” as long as you “repent” at the end.
    It is a basic rejection of the individual as part of a community and an ecosystem. Teaching our children that actions have consequences for all is a good starting place.

    Wendell Berry is a great thinker, thanks for sharing the link.

  68. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 10, 2018 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    “Please note that I was comparing the purported offensive actions of both men and you pivoted to comparing the cost to both men of being accused. Please also note that Acosta paid a cost while Kavanaugh was afforded a Senate hearing to make his case and paid none.”

    How can what Acosta did be called purported? Everyone saw it. “Afforded” a hearing? Oh, they did him a favor by not just stringing him up downtown huh? I don’t see how altering history by ruining a man’s life with no evidence and Jim Acosta being rebuked for his behavior is comparable at all.

  69. wobblie
    Posted November 10, 2018 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    Our President is either an idiot, demented or extremely lazy and sloppy. HW you can take your pick.

    https://twitter.com/marklowen/status/1061199406979076096/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1061199406979076096&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.democraticunderground.com%2F100211406884

    Mark Lowen

    @marklowen

    In today’s ⁦@lemondefr⁩: When #Trump received the leaders of #Estonia, #Latvia and #Lithuania, he began by blaming them for the war in Yugoslavia. It took them a few moments to realise he’d mixed up the Balkans and the Baltics. ⁦@SylvieKauffmann⁩
    1,636
    5:10 AM – Nov 10, 2018

  70. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 10, 2018 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    A gaffe isn’t shit compared to election fraud. You are always trying to “shift the narrative” aren’t you? I don’t have a narrative. I’m talking about what is happening, that’s all. You want to change the subject because it doesn’t look so good for ol’ Broward County right now, that dem stronghold. Why does all the worst shit happen there?

  71. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 10, 2018 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    There are plenty of places to see the supposedly “real video” and “doctored video” side by side at slow speeds. Can someone in the “it was definitely doctored” crowd please watch these videos and articulate 1) the relevant differences between these videos; and 2) how the supposed differences between the two videos ought to affect our judgement regarding the appropriate/ inappropriateness of Acosta’s behavior?

    In other words, please prove to us that you are not part of the brain-washed-parrot crowd-who-can’t-resist-the-temptation- to-disseminate-twitter-fed-conspiracy-theories. To be clear: There are obvious differences between the original video and the Alex Jones video. I am just wondering what you guys think are the relevant differences. I am asking you guys to use your own eyes and brains and to report back to us.

  72. wobblie
    Posted November 10, 2018 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    FF, I am not in any camp as it relates to the video having not bothered to watch it. Most Americans won’t bother. What I’m interested in is how the WH characterized the event. Everything Trump does is to establish first effect. The disclaimers, the change in language, the qualifiers, they all come later. But the lie has been planted, and the true believers will not go beyond the initial statement. Much like yourself, you see no difference between “laying hands on” and “made contact with”. It is as if language is meaningless to you. That is key to fascist ideology.
    You can try that insult again… I don’t have a creative bone in my body, I stole it from TYT’s Cenk Uygur.

  73. Posted November 10, 2018 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    Dave, I know of Wendell Berry, likely because he’s from my home state of Kentucky, but I don’t know much about him. Thanks for sending the link to the trailer. It was incredible. I will have to watch the whole thing this weekend.

  74. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 10, 2018 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

    Wobblie,

    I think I know what you mean. I do think it is fair to question Trump’s use of “first effect rhetoric”, for a lack of a better term. He does it. He does it in the long term and even within the same sentences which he speaks. I do think his use of initial exaggeration and later refinement is part of what makes him persuasive to so many, so I do not want to dismiss your insight. However, I don’t see how it is possible to gauge the extent of influence “first effect rhetoric” had in this case, independent of a judgment and report of what we actually see in the video. We need to compare what we see, on the one hand, with what we are told happened on the other hand.

    You are wrong about one thing. I imported zero information into my initial judgment here. My first exposure to the Acosta incident was through Mark’s post. Reading Mark’s post and the initial comments I was led to believe: 1) The White house intentionally used a doctored video; 2) to give the illusion Acosta assaulted an intern; 3) in an attempt to appear justified in revoking Acosta’s press pass.

    Which is fine except, after digging around a bit, and watching the incident within the full context of the actual press conference, it does not appear that any of 1, 2, or 3, taken alone or together, are necessarily true at all. So, while you are disturbed that the white house is refining its interpretation of events I am wondering: How would you describe what Acosta did? Was the contact merely accidental? What makes you believe that? Or, do you believe Acosta when he said he did not touch her?

    Of course we should be concerned about rhetorical devices that are used in an attempt to control us without regard for the Truth. It is odd that you don’t see that is in fact one of my main underlying concerns behind most of posts here. At least the White House is refining statements….On this site, in this post, on this thread, we have people stating things as facts that are either questionable or not true.

    As far as I can tell the White House never said that Acosta “assaulted” the intern. Should it concern us, in the same way you show concern for Trump’s “first effect rhetoric” that M never bothered to refine his apparently untrue statement when asked about it directly?

    As far as I can tell there is little relevant difference between the allegedly “doctored video” and the “real video”. Isn’t it concerning, in the same way you are concerned with Trump’s “first effect rhetoric”, to see a bunch of people initiating a claim about an allegedly “doctored video”, supposedly used to distort reality toward a political end, while those same people refuse to articulate the differences they see between, on the hand, the video they claim distorts reality, and on the other hand, the video they claim to be a true representation of reality?

    I take relative comfort in the fact that Trump at least refines his otherwise half-true/ half-false statements. Contrast that with this place. The silence to basic questions around here is chilling. The lack of desire and complete disregard toward accountability regarding ones own truth claims should be completely frightening to us all.

    All these things are signs: Winter is Coming.

  75. Frosted Flakes
    Posted November 10, 2018 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

    Twitter is Coming.

  76. EOS
    Posted November 10, 2018 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

    Dave,

    Thanks for the Look and See trailer. I’ll have to check it out. Just spent the last hour writing about how I spent my childhood and then lost it all when I hit the wrong button. I think that’s probably for the best, and I won’t try to rewrite it. But it was a good exercise to open my eyes to the fact that my upbringing in the suburbs,adjacent to a 20 mile park with woods and lakes and rivers, and within a 30 minute drive to the city with its cultural opportunities, is probably the foremost reason why I prefer the edge. I feel that I am one of the lucky ones, having grown up in an age before childhood and the environment became dangerous. And there’s still lots of fireflies in my backyard in the early summers. I have a lot to be thankful for.

    I hope you stick around and keep posting. Don’t let the vitriol drive you away.

  77. Jean Henry
    Posted November 10, 2018 at 10:33 pm | Permalink

    “Even if Dr. Ford’s accusation is true, I don’t think Kavanaugh did anything that rare or horrific. She didn’t accuse him of rape. What she said he did is actually a very common occursnce among drinking teens and college students”– iRobert

    And my hot take: the same guy who declared re DeBlasey Ford’s accusations (to wit) “It’s a completely normal experience; It’s not rape after all or anything like it.”

    Am I a liar? You got pretty mad iRobert…

  78. Jean Henry
    Posted November 10, 2018 at 10:43 pm | Permalink

    EOS== Children are much more safe in the US today overall than they ever have been. The environment is also much cleaner than it was in the 70’s and before. There are more humans and there is the pressing threat of global warming. But your nostalgia is misplaced. Further more, every policy I’ve ever seen you support make the world much less safe for children and threatens the environment.

    I adore Wendell Berry, and he has been right about many things, but he certainly knows very little about how we need to live if we are going to support our growing population and reduce our environmental impact (hint more of us will need to live in more densely populated urban cores for the sake of the environment.) His is a precious and privileged life. With planty f hard work, but privileged none the less.

    For many many years, I had this quote above my desk:

    “What can turn us from this deserted future, back into the sphere of our being, the great dance that joins us to our home, to each other and to other creatures, to the dead and unborn? I think it is love. I am perforce aware how baldly and embarrassingly that word now lies on the page—for we have learned at once to overuse it, abuse it, and hold it in suspicion. But I do not mean any kind of abstract love (adolescent, romantic, or “religious”), which is probably a contradiction in terms, but particular love for particular things, places, creatures, and people, requiring stands, acts, showing its successes and failures in practical or tangible effects. And it implies a responsibility just as particular, not grim or merely dutiful, but rising out of generosity. I think that this sort of love defines the effective range of human intelligence, the range within its works can be dependably beneficent. Only the action that is moved by love for the good at hand has the hope of being responsible and generous. Desire for the future produces words that cannot be stood by. But love makes language exact, because one loves only what one knows.”

    It seems like a good one for Mark. I should probably post it up again…

  79. Jean Henry
    Posted November 11, 2018 at 7:39 am | Permalink

    “I don’t have a narrative. I’m talking about what is happening, that’s all.” -HW. lol

  80. iRobert
    Posted November 11, 2018 at 7:57 am | Permalink

    Jean, I am just disgusted by you since you said children should have access to pornography. You’re just a disgusting mess.

  81. iRobert
    Posted November 11, 2018 at 8:02 am | Permalink

    Jean, I’ve watched you misrepresent so many things EOS and HW have said. Even though I often disagree with them, it still disgusts me that you would do that of course. I assume it disgusts everyone who notices. Why would you feel you can’t just argue against what they’ve actually said? Why do you have to misrepresent anything they say? It’s really reprehensible.

  82. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 11, 2018 at 8:18 am | Permalink

    You don’t even know what you are lolling about, Jean. Oblique and weak. Every time you lose you evaporate. I steamroll you and you try to pretend it didn’t happen with that mindless shit like typing lol.

    “How can what Acosta did be called purported? Everyone saw it. “Afforded” a hearing? Oh, they did him a favor by not just stringing him up downtown huh? I don’t see how altering history by ruining a man’s life with no evidence and Jim Acosta being rebuked for his behavior is comparable at all.”

  83. iRobert
    Posted November 11, 2018 at 8:18 am | Permalink

    By the way, Jean, the words “normal” and “common” are not interchangeable. Usually, a person who reads and writes as much as you do, don’t have to be told that.

  84. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 11, 2018 at 8:21 am | Permalink

    That is right on, iRobert. I appreciate that.

  85. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted November 11, 2018 at 8:24 am | Permalink

    Not about the words but about Jean Henry.

  86. iRobert
    Posted November 11, 2018 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    You also really annoyed me when you said you understood race issues and had more sophisticated strategies than did Martin Luther King. That really got my goat, Jean.

  87. iRobert
    Posted November 11, 2018 at 8:32 am | Permalink

    Seriously, HW, I may disagree with you on many issues, but I know Jean misrepresents almost everything you’ve ever said here. She does it to everybody, and I think most people here notice it.

    The weirdest thing about it is that I don’t think she has to misrepresent other people’s statements or positions. She seems to be well read enough and intelligent enough to make her arguments without resorting to such disgusting tactics. One thing I definitely appreciate about you and EOS is that I don’t see you misrepresent other people’s statements. It really does just create a mess when she does that and makes any hope for a productive interaction impossible.

  88. Sad
    Posted November 11, 2018 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    And really she should realize that this is a male space. Right guys?

  89. iRobert
    Posted November 11, 2018 at 10:01 am | Permalink

    Jean doesn’t represent anyone but her own demons. No group would ever want her as their spokesperson. She doesn’t speak for women. She doesn’t speak for ANN Arborites. She doesn’t speak for Democrats. She doesn’t speak for Hillary supporters. Nobody, given the choice, would appoint her their spokesperson. Her own demons may even be a bit uncomfortable with her speaking for them.

  90. iRobert
    Posted November 11, 2018 at 10:15 am | Permalink

    I prefer to think of Jean as a man. In the same way that she prefers to think of EOS as a woman, I suppose. I don’t like most men. Jean has all the negative characteristics stereotypically attributed to men anyway. She’s crude, immature, offensive, debased, twisted, and violent.

  91. Sad
    Posted November 11, 2018 at 10:26 am | Permalink

    Maybe you would benefit from a little vacation iRobert? It’s just the internet. There’s only ten of us here. Maybe go take a walk in the woods with Wendel Berry.

    How is it that she’s able to get you all soooo upset?

  92. iRobert
    Posted November 11, 2018 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    I definitely agree with the vacation idea, Sad. I’m planning a few of them soon.

    I’m not really upset though. I’m just trying to provoke responses from Jean. I think they’d be interesting. I often wonder how self aware Jean is. I’m trying to get more clues.

  93. iRobert
    Posted November 11, 2018 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    I’m more of a Halle fan, than a Wendel fan, when it comes to walks in the woods.

  94. Sad
    Posted November 11, 2018 at 11:08 am | Permalink

    Halle? The city in Germany or a walk in the Antarctic?

  95. iRobert
    Posted November 11, 2018 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    When it comes to Berrys, I’m less of a Wendal fan, and more of a Halle fan.

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