“Truth crushed to earth will rise again”

I’m reminded today of something that Martin Luther King Jr. wrote in the February 8, 1958 issue of the Baptist magazine Missions. “Those of us who call the name of Jesus Christ find something in the center of our faith which forever reminds us that God is on the side of truth and justice,” Dr. King wrote. “Good Friday may occupy the throne for a day, but ultimately it must give way to the triumph of Easter. Evil may so shape events that Caesar will occupy a palace and Christ a cross, but that same Christ arose and split history into A.D. and B.C., so that even the life of Caesar must be dated by his name.” Dr. King then went on, quoting both Unitarian minister Theodore Parker and poet William Cullen Bryant. “Yes,” he wrote, “‘the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.’ There is something in the universe which justifies William Cullen Bryant in saying, ‘Truth crushed to earth will rise again.’”

And it’s this quote, “Truth crushed to earth will rise again,” that is keeping me going this morning, as, no matter where I look, I’m confronted by complete madness… Here, in case you missed it, as an example of what we’re dealing with today, in the wake of yesterday’s Republican victory. [The fact that they were able to place someone as obviously unfit as Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court has them convinced that they’re absolutely unstoppable.]

Back to Dr. King, this idea that good will ultimately win out of evil is something that he kept going back to again and again in his work. In a sermon delivered in the early 1960s, he said, “A mythical Satan, through the work of a conniving serpent, may gain the allegiance of man for a period, but ultimately he must give way to the magnetic redemptive power of a humble servant on an uplifted cross.”

I hope to god he’s right about that.

I know what we’re living through right now is truly terrible, and there doesn’t seem to be much hope, but, the truth is, this evil… this rejection of truth and perversion of justice… isn’t anything new, and, up until now, we’ve always found a way to keep inching forward in spite of it. I know, if you’re like me, you’re probably feeling pretty hopeless right now, but we can’t afford to feel that way. We just can’t. We don’t just owe it to those who are coming after us, but to those who came before, and founght back against the same evil in their lifetimes.

Right now, as I’m sitting here, thinking about all of this, I have two friends in mind, both of whom passed some time ago. The first is my friend Ned Cartlidge, an artist who, having been profoundly affected by the experience of liberating the Wöbbelin concentration camp in 1945, used his work to explore progressive themes, questioning the treatment of the poor, the power of the wealthy, the role of government. And the second is my friend Archie Byron, who grew up in Atlanta’s Buttermilk Bottom neighborhood with a young Martin Luther King Jr., and went on to found the first African American-owned private investigation firm in the United States. [After the assassination of Dr. King, it was Bryon who protected his family.] Byron, who once told me about a childhood fist fight he’d had with King, didn’t exactly ascribe to his old friend’s philosophy of nonviolence. I can still remember him telling me that he’d refused to march with King, as he’d been told that he couldn’t cary a shotgun. [Byron would later become both a politician and an artist.] And, for some reason, I have both of these two men in my thoughts today, as I’m thinking about the long arc of the moral universe, the battles of the past, and the one we’re in the midst of now. To be honest, I feel like shit today, contemplating the enormity of what we’re facing, but we’ve successfully fought back before, ending slavery, extending the vote to women, defeating fascism, and passing the Voting Rights Act, among other things, and we can do it again… We have to.

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  1. Posted October 7, 2018 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

    I need to stay off of Twitter today. More MLK. Less insanity.

  2. Posted October 7, 2018 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    OK, I really am leaving Twitter now. I promise.

  3. Posted October 7, 2018 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

    This time I really mean it.

  4. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 7, 2018 at 7:28 pm | Permalink

    Martin Luther King would be horrified by you. You judge people on the color of their skin not the content of their character. Your constant divisive drumbeat is totally against everything he stood for.

  5. John Galt
    Posted October 7, 2018 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

    I agree with HW. If MLK was alive today, he’d be wearing a MAGA hat and celebrating the methodical rollback of the Voting Rights Act. To quote Dr. Blasey Ford, I’m “100%” certain of it.

  6. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 7, 2018 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    Sounds like the VRA was abused.

    “The Department of Justice sent a letter to all 50 states informing them that “we are reviewing voter registration list maintenance procedures in each state covered by the NVRA [National Voter Registration Act]” and asking how they plan to remove voters from the rolls. While this might sound banal, it’s a clear instruction to states from the federal government to start purging the voting rolls.”

    Why would we not want dead people or people who live in other states or illegal aliens off a state’s voting rolls? I’m sure – it’s not they are trying to stop black people or anyone from voting or something.

    When vote rigging by your people is exposed you are going to be fzoked. It’s coming. Not “voter fraud” but VOTE fraud by officials.

  7. EOS
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 4:29 am | Permalink

    Who is rejecting the truth?

    John 14:6

  8. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 5:49 am | Permalink

    “But you haters do not care about the truth…Heroes were always attacked in their day for protecting the rights of others. MLK, Ghandi, Susan B Anthony.”

    –Jordan Hunt

  9. Sad
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 7:11 am | Permalink

    FF, HW and EOS have become a Greek chorus. I wonder if they’ll dress up like that for their Halloween party?

  10. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 7:28 am | Permalink

    What is the Greek name for the one “who answers the chorus”?

  11. Sad
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 7:46 am | Permalink

    I don’t think anyone answers the chorus?

    You just chime in with your thoughts about the main characters actions.

    Your’re not the lead. But nonetheless crucial.

  12. Jean Henry
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 8:19 am | Permalink

    FF— How is it that you imagine people on the left, who wanted a thorough and comprehensive investigation of all accusations against Kavanaugh, care less about the truth than those on the right, who stymied it?

    Did one side jump to conclusion faster than the other? What’s your evidence of that.

    Kavanaugh was accused of abuse and lying under oath. He was not convicted of anything. And never was going to be. Since a thorough investigation never took place, we won’t ever know the truth. We had, on non-partisan (or constitutional) grounds, enough evidence of his unsuitability of for being seated on the bench the Supreme Court.

    Politics won out, not truth.

  13. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    How do you know it was not thorough? The FBI could be in possession of enough information to know it is a lie.

  14. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    “We had, on non-partisan (or constitutional) grounds, enough evidence of his unsuitability of for being seated on the bench the Supreme Court.”

    No you did not.

  15. Jean Henry
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    “Let us not be disconsolate over the increasing control of the court system by the right wing.

    The courts have never been on the side of justice, only moving a few degrees one way or the other, unless pushed by the people. Those words engraved in the marble of the Supreme Court, “Equal Justice Before the Law,” have always been a sham.

    No Supreme Court, liberal or conservative, will stop the war in Iraq, or redistribute the wealth of this country, or establish free medical care for every human being. Such fundamental change will depend, the experience of the past suggests, on the actions of an aroused citizenry, demanding that the promise of the Declaration of Independence–an equal right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness–be fulfilled.”


  16. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 8:49 am | Permalink


    I liked your Greek chorus comment. I was trying to be clever in my response. My understanding is that it was all “Chorus”prior to Thespis. Thespis was the first actor to “answer the chorus”. The Greek name for “actor” was “hypocrite”.

  17. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 8:57 am | Permalink


    I am extremely biased against Kavanaugh. To be honest, it wouldn’t be surprised if he was a functional alchoholic. I also know I am extreme, compared to the rest of culture, in my views against drugs and alcohol….I wouldn’t have confirmed him but I am not surprised he was confirmed. Regarding the sexual assault allegations. Prove it. If someone can corroborate they should come forward. They haven’t. Not much to talk about.

  18. Lynne
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 9:31 am | Permalink

    I don’t find it surprising at all that Trump supporters are the types to rub salt in wounds. That they are bad winners. I think their rage is rooted in the fact that even though they can win politically for various reasons, they aren’t actually a majority. It is the majority that determines the cultural norms. They *think* they have killed feminism but have they? Was the #metoo movement not a Trump era movement?

    They haven’t stopped progress.

    What they have done is ensure that the poorer among us will be hurt along the way. That sucks for sure but that is a problem we can do things about like funding trips for women to places where abortion is legal and by spreading as much information about safe use of abortifacients around as possible. We can provide charity medical care to poor people and the beauty of charity is that one can be selective and not give to Trump voting poor people. Let them go to EOS and appeal to their so-called Christian heart for help.

  19. Jean Henry
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 9:36 am | Permalink

    FF— I don’t need to prove it because he was disqualified by constitutional standards of the Supreme Court based on disposition and partisanship.

    There was not a thorough investigation of all allegations. I know a bunch of people (over 20) who were in his class at Yale. Many report that they Nd their classmates wanted to talk to the FBI about Ramirez (not investigated) accusation and his accounts of his drinking at Yale and could not even get through. The FBI was not interviewing anyone who came forward; they weren’t even recording their statements. So no serious investigation took place. We won’t know the truth but that’s not because some version of the truth or pieces of it showing Kavanaugh perjured himself about the allegations weren’t available.

    It’s as hard to prove sexual assault as it is to prove functional alcoholism. And yet you ‘believe’ he is a functional alcoholic. I have considerable experience with substance abuse (not my own) and understand your perception. I also understand that the knowledge we both have of the signs of substance abuse are hard won and not often evident to others until late in the game if ever. Those of us with lived experience have seen the curtain pulled back on alcoholism and it’s impacts and indicators. That’s not proof but understanding based on knowledge.

    Similarly women who have experienced sexual abuse (many if not lost of us) can recognize the signs of an abuser without proof that abuse happened. This kind of developed understanding should not be dismissed. It should not stand as proof either. Survivors are asking to be believed not to have their statements stand as proof alone. Belief would be reason enough to investigate thoroughly such significant accusations, especially in this circumstance.

  20. Lynne
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 9:48 am | Permalink

    FF, I don’t think proof is required in this case. If I were hiring someone for a job and found out that they had been accused of sexual abuse by someone credible, they would not get hired by me. In addition to the moral implications, there would be too much risk. Can you imagine the liability if that hire were to sexually harass someone at the workplace? Like if it came out that you were warned and decided to ignore it because there wasn’t enough proof? It would be perfectly appropriate not to hire such a person and legal too and the smart decision in a climate where sexual harassment is not tolerated as much as it used to be.

    As it is, I hope there is some mass shaming of him in DC. I hope he finds that he can never go out to dinner without being shamed. I know that I would walk right up to him and call him a rapist if I ever saw him in public. Like seriously, if I were dining in a restaurant, I would stop eating, loudly ask for my check, look right at him and announce that I refuse to eat at a restaurant that allows rapists. Let’s hope it will be like how Snyder can’t find himself in public without being shamed for poisoning the water in Flint! Fuck those guys. Seriously though, there is political power and there is cultural power and imho, cultural power is the more powerful if the majority is going a certain way. In the history of this country, the majority does tend to bend towards justice.

    At any rate, Kavanaugh lied during his confirmation hearings and thus, can be impeached at any time if the left ever gets their act together and votes in a Congress willing to do it. I agree btw, that there is not enough evidence that Kavanough lied about trying to rape Ford to impeach him but he lied about enough other things that can be proven that proving that he is a failed rapist isn’t worth the effort. And no going back to his cushy federal judgeship either. He needs to be gone from public life altogether. *yes, I know that this is a fantasy and not especially realistic. Kavanaugh is going to be on the court for life and all we can do is hope that he won’t live too long.

  21. Lynne
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    You can see how much there is behind cultural power when governments start suppressing people’s Freedom of Speech. Of course, the irony here is that what they did by removing this woman’s lawn sign is give her message a national platform.


  22. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 10:00 am | Permalink

    What a horrible kind of person to call someone a rapist when you have no idea if it was merely a dem ploy or not. See, you have no ability to consider anything outside your beliefs. You can’t even say “IF he did it then…” You just pronounce him guilty and Blasey credible as if that is supposed to mean something. It’s so dumb.

  23. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    Jean, I think a lot what you just said makes sense…I really do. I also know it hard to have the right approach all the time…. However, there is a big part of me that is also not very sympathetic about the outcome either. The left played a role in the outcome. I see this as chickens coming home to roost type of situation. So many unacknowledged hoaxes, political games and false allegations over the last few years that have lead up to this moment. I know it sounds like I am trying to play a cruel trick when I say it but I will say it again: Trump and Kavanaugh, in large part, belong to the left. The left gave birth to these guys. These guys don’t exist as some of the most powerful people in the world except as a response to a way of being that is obviously corrupt.

  24. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 10:26 am | Permalink


    He is 100% innocent of the allegations in my mind. 100%! Innocent until proven guilty is a moral principle that exists outside of legality. What you just admitted to regarding not hiring someone (all other things being equal), if they were merely accused of something, feels like an obvious violation of a basic moral principle, to me. I agree with HW and most all American’s, I suspect. I mean, I really can’t think of a stance more backward…Are you longing to live as a powerless peasant in Europe 1000 years ago? The good old days? Cross your fingers and see how those with power treat you?

  25. Lynne
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 10:28 am | Permalink

    FF, you do really like to victim blame don’t you?

    But ok, I will bite. How come the “unacknowledged hoaxes, political games, and false allegations” only hurt the left when the right engages in this kind of thing much more and it clearly hasn’t hurt them?

  26. Lynne
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 10:34 am | Permalink

    FF, I am going to assume that the moral principle in question is that MEN require proof before they are disbelieved but it is ok to assume a woman is lying even if you can’t prove that she is?

    We aren’t talking about a criminal case here. We are talking about a job interview. It is different and requires a different standard of proof. Civil courts too which is something to consider too. I mean, if you hire someone with more than one allegation that they have sexually abused someone and they sexually abuse a woman in your work place, you could (and should) lose a lot of money.

  27. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 10:44 am | Permalink


    Prove victimhood first, then we can discuss blaming the victim.

    I could be wrong, but I believe the left has the much bigger problem with convenient assumptions and fallacy–and it is expressed on the level of language and logic. I actually believe it is a chosen strategy of the left and that it is backfiring.

    It is my impression that the left is behind more politically motivated hoaxes and false allegations lately. I could be wrong and am open to my unscientific impression being shot down with statistics or anectdotal evidence. I see hints of the left misusing language and logic scattered everywhere. I assume that is backfiring on the left because people on the right and in the middle are better at identifying these problems with language and logic. That is my sense and I am just expressing my opinion.

  28. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    For most people in most jobs there is no motive against them to make a false allegation.

  29. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 10:50 am | Permalink


    I think it is morally wrong to say Ford is lying. She is just someone who has an unproven and uncorroborated allegation. Parts of her testimony struck me as odd but it is wrong to assume she is a liar or a bad person. If it could be proven that she was lying then I would advocate for harsh punishment. I advocate for harsh punishment whenever someone is proven to be a false accuser. It does not seem like there is much penalty for levying false accusations however.

  30. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 10:55 am | Permalink

    She lied about never giving advice on how to take a polygraph according to a letter to Congress by her ex. Her pupil has worked for the FBI/DOJ. Pretty major fucking problem if true I would say! She acted like she was a total noob when it came to polygraphs and swore she never had any discussions about how to take one with anyone.

  31. Lynne
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 11:26 am | Permalink

    So you can see that there is a different standard of proof in different situations when it comes to Ford but not Kavanaugh? Interesting.

    I am just very grateful that the men in my life aren’t rape supporters.

  32. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 11:37 am | Permalink

    I don’t know what that is supposed to mean. What different standards are you talking about for each?

    I think your passive aggressive thought process is hilarious with statements like the last part. It’s also awful. You expect pity but you insinuate nasty lies all the time. The funny part is it doesn’t work. Only extreme idiots would find your thought process reasonable. I know there are a lot of idiots out there but it’s not that many really. You are the lunatic fringe.

  33. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    I don’t follow, Lynne. There ought to be the same standard for Ford and Kavanaugh. People who say Ford is lying about her allegation are morally wrong because it has not been proven that she lied about the assault. Likewise, it has not been proven that Kavanaugh is guilty of assault.

  34. iRobert
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    If Dr. Ford’s memory is accurate, the press should have no trouble finding whatever evidence or eyewitness accounts the FBI didn’t bother to collect. It will be interesting to see whether anybody does attempt to look further into it.

    In terms of strategy, the Democrats should not harp on Kavanaugh specifically, but should campaign on the #metoo issue in general.

  35. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 11:47 am | Permalink

    If she coached a government employee on polygraphs then she’s got worse problems than the accuracy of her memory.

  36. Lynne
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

    FF, the same standard does exist for Ford and Kavanaugh in terms of criminal accusations. My point is that suddenly the standards change in other situations. If you think this wouldn’t hurt Dr Ford in a job interview situation, you are naive.

  37. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

    I don’t know. Without evidence for or against her claim half of America already views her as a hero. I mean, you already said you would not hire Kavanaugh. Are you saying you would not hire Ford either? Honestly, I would probably find excuses to not hire either of them based upon their personalities, in general, because they both come across as a couple of odd balls to me–but that is just me. Am I the only one that finds both of these people annoying? Is she really a professor? Is he a real judge? I would have never guessed it.

  38. Lynne
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

    No, I am saying that many of the same people who are saying that they would hire Kavanaugh unless there is the same level of proof one would expect in a criminal hearing would not hire Ford because they think she is a liar who is falsely accusing a man. Heck at Trump rallies they are yelling to lock her up for it!

  39. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

    If she is lying do you think she should be prosecuted?

  40. Jean Henry
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

    False accusations are in fact punishable offenses. Filing a false police report is very serious. And one can be sued for libel. But one must be able to show the accusations are false. It’s the same burden of proof as needed to be convicted of the accused crime.

    Kavanaugh has not been vindicated and Blasey Ford has not been shown to be lying. What we have is an unresolved accusation.

    The conversation here on both sides hinges on beliefs informed and otherwise.

    We aren’t going to know the truth. We rarely do.

    Ps FF the Trump victory was as much an f/u to the Republican establishment as to liberals. It was a subversive vote. And whether or not Trump continues to accrue Power, the GOP is forever altered. The Dems as a coalition of interests will continue to be the unwieldy alternative for the near future. I think the GOP and traditional Conservative values suffered more lasting damage than the left. We’ll see though. The Dems are now the party of free trade and globalism as well as social justice. Go figure. The Clintons must be pleased.

  41. wobblie
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

    JH, if the Dems could only become the peace party. Not a word about how Feinstein was going to let this all go under the radar and allow the Kavanaugh nomination through without a fight over his character (thank you unknown Senate staffer). The Republicans thought the deal was all set. You give us Manchin so it is “bi-partisan” and we’ll give up Murkowski. That is really why the Repubs were so upset. A little bit of pussy grabbing and abusive behavior towards woman is expected in a Republican-don’t you know.

    I’m with Lynn, Kavanaugh should not ever be able to go out into public without being called to account. If I live long enough He will be added to my piss on there grave tour.

  42. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    CIA Democrats


    Keep in mind Jean Henry sees no potential issues at all with that.

  43. Lynne
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    It would be nice if the Dems could become the peace party and still win elections. I am not sure they could. Especially now that the costs of war are so much less personal than they have been in the past. Few know anyone in combat these days.

    I wish I had the answer here. I mean, we could save so much money and get the same outcome in terms of world influence with a different approach. Russia has shown us how to get a pretty big bang for the buck in terms of foreign influence. We don’t have to have a military that is more than 10 times larger than the second largest military. This is indeed an area where I tend to disagree with most Dems. I have even made it an issue that influenced my primary vote.

  44. EOS
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    One day soon they might not be able to wake up RBG from one of her frequent naps. Then the Dems will go ballistic on the next nominee. Don’t know who it will be, but I’m 100% sure they will be accused of some atrocious act. The Dems will protest and throw their tantrums. The same deceitful tactics will be used to undermine the candidate. And in the end, it will be a 6 to 3 majority for the conservatives for the next 40 years.

  45. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    “Russia has shown us how to get a pretty big bang for the buck in terms of foreign influence.”

    Russian collusion by Trump is dead. You really think you can speak with an authoritative air about Russian influence? You supported Clinton’s lies about President Trump that her spy bought from Russians and passed to the FBI.

  46. Teacher Patti
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    Here’s the thing–we think that the arc of justice bends towards justice or whatever I know I’m hacking that quote and that the good guys always win because we won WWII. We think that because people march and make calls, etc., then we will change things because that happened with Vietnam. But in my mind, those are the exceptions to the rule. That is why I don’t feel much hope. There isn’t going to be a “tipping point”, no journalist on TV saying we’ve lost middle America, no reporters breaking the big story that will finally bring it all crashing down. I don’t think we are going to not have elections or lose the Constitution, but I think we are going to go back to 1880s-1910s ish era but with technology. It might swing back in 50-60 years, but I won’t be here to see it.

  47. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 8:03 pm | Permalink

    Justice is coming but Deep State dems and repubs are who is going to get it.

  48. Sad
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

    Two Greek choruses. One doom and gloom. One victorious and jubilant.

    For you HW. Watch out!


    I like Jim Carrey telling people in reference to Kavanaugh that it’s not the end of the world. No, that’s coming in November. Lol.

  49. wobblie
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 9:14 pm | Permalink

    I like the Greek chorus line
    Alaska GOP to weigh potential action against Murkowski


    this is how the Republicans play. Here anyone in the Democratic Party talking about disciplining Manchin or kicking him out of the party? Or how about Feinstein and her pandering for Republican votes in the Senate election against another Democrat out in California. (You have to love California with there open primary and open election. The Republicans can’t get enough votes to get some one into the general election, but they can make Feinstein act like a Republican agent.)
    “Especially now that the costs of war are so much less personal than they have been in the past. Few know anyone in combat these days. ” That is because you are divorced from the working class. The economic draft has sent many of my friends children, and school mates of my daughter into the military. Most get deployed to a war zone at least once. I know at least 6 folks who have served in Iraq or Afghanistan since 2007 (the year my daughter graduated high school–the last of the Ypsi Braves).
    Its like JH and her cheering for economic globalization. The result of the Democratic Neo-Liberal economic policies have crushed the working class–and she wants a party that cheer leads for it. It is those policies that provided the incentives for the economic draft (going into the military was not any of these kids first choice in life, and all have gotten out after one enlistment).
    If the Democrats don’t wise up they will help Trump get re-elected.

    Demand better from our politicians.

  50. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 9:24 pm | Permalink

    I do live in Ypsilanti and I was almost named Demetrius but that’s about as far as that goes. Greek chorus? Butterknife-sharp wit there.

  51. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 9:26 pm | Permalink

    You already played that song not too long ago, Sad. It’s possible to go to the well too often you know.

  52. Jean Henry
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 9:54 pm | Permalink

    HW– It’s true. In an era where our safety is more dependent on covert operations unmasking terrorist cells than on diplomacy, I actually think having people in the legislature with CIA or FBI experience is a good thing. They will lend an important perspective on foreign and domestic affairs. Also, those agencies are non-artisan and have a culture of service to country over service to party, which I think is very much needed. We have to get back to a functional democracy that effectively governs and allows for competing perspectives.

  53. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 9:58 pm | Permalink

    Wow, an admitted CIA democrat.. You must know nothing about what they have done. You don’t want to know otherwise you would.

  54. Jean Henry
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 11:18 pm | Permalink

    I know plenty of what the CIA has done for good and bad (We mostly hear the bad) at the behest of the Presidents and their cabinets, etc. I dont blame the operatives for CIA or FBI policies any more than I blame soldiers for the foreign wars in which they participate. I dont believe ex-soldiers are still working for their military superiors and more than I believe known ex-CIA and FBI are still working at the behest of those agencies. You have watched too much Homeland.

  55. Jean Henry
    Posted October 8, 2018 at 11:24 pm | Permalink

    An old boyfriend’s father was a spy in WW2 and later. (MY bf wasn’t sure but suspected. He was told his dad was a diplomat, but details were fuzzy beyond that. I saw it confirmed in his obit a few years ago. After he left the CIA (we think) , he worked for Unicef at a high level. That always amused me and seemed a bit suspicious. It would be a good cover for lots of foreign travel and money handling. A seat in Congress would not.

  56. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 9, 2018 at 3:51 am | Permalink

    What are some of the good things the agency does?

    You don’t think individuals have moral culpability for doing bad things on behalf of their employer?

    I don’t watch tv. You do? No wonder you are such an idiot.

  57. Jean Henry
    Posted October 9, 2018 at 4:59 am | Permalink

    The FBI does the work on child trafficking for one, HW. I thought you cared about that issue.

    I don’t own a tv.

  58. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 9, 2018 at 5:35 am | Permalink

    Why are you changing the subject to that? You have no integrity. You said you know plenty of what the CIA does for good. I asked what good do they do. You started talking about the FBI…

    By the way I have posted evidence of an FBI coverup of child trafficking (for politicians!) which you refused to watch.

  59. Sad
    Posted October 9, 2018 at 7:32 am | Permalink

    It’s the golden age of television. You should watch something, maybe a comedy so you aren’t so upset all the time.

  60. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 9, 2018 at 7:51 am | Permalink

    Who says I’m upset?

  61. Sad
    Posted October 9, 2018 at 8:20 am | Permalink


  62. iRobert
    Posted October 9, 2018 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    The good the CIA does is mostly in the area of data collection and surveillance of our adversaries around the world. Outside of that, I’d agree they’ve done at least as much harm as good. Wherever and whenever the CIA takes action to influence the direction of developments, things often turn out very badly. The mentality of most people that work in intelligence isn’t something you’d want in an elected official. I think Senator McCarthy had a lot to say on that topic back in the 60s, but I haven’t been able to find anything having just now done some googling for it.

  63. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 9, 2018 at 8:50 am | Permalink

    You actually laughed out loud, Sad or do you use lol like that pinhead Iron Lung?

  64. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 9, 2018 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    Data collection and surveillance – I’d say that is charitable. How about mayhem, destabilization and covert control in many countries around the world? Obviously I agree with your conclusion though, iRob. This overt acceptance of the CIA as a political force in the USA is crazy as shit. Good thing not too many people are like Jean Henry.

  65. Posted October 9, 2018 at 9:27 am | Permalink

    Nikki Haley resigned.

  66. Lynne
    Posted October 9, 2018 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    Wobblie. While it is true that I don’t know too many working class people, I do know some. My brother, while not in the military, spent a couple of years in Afghanistan. Still, the costs of war are MUCH less personal than they have been in the past. Even though the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have been going on for ages, the number of casualties is much lower than in other wars, both have fewer deaths per capita than any of our other wars. So there is no draft which does limit enlistment to mostly the working and lower classes which are a minority. MOST people will not know anyone killed or injured. (I know someone injured in Iraq, fwiw). Yet most people like the idea of a strong protective military especially when their xenophobic fears get stoked.

    So in an environment where people like the benefits of a big military but don’t often feel the personal costs and maybe dont understand the economic costs, how can you convince them to cut defense spending?

  67. Lynne
    Posted October 9, 2018 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    iRobert, ah so she had a last scrap of integrity after all!

  68. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 9, 2018 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    How does someone who has pushed that phony Russian collusion frame job think they can talk about integrity? James Baker’s “explosive” testimony from last week regarding the Russia probe about to blow it all up? “Goodbye, Mr. Rosenstein.”

  69. wobblie
    Posted October 9, 2018 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

    It is a lie that most Americans are in favor of more defense spending. I’ve posted this before, over a third think we spend too much and a third think it is about right. That third who think it is about right could easily be moved into the too much crowd it there was any politician with courage to confront military spending and militarism in general.

  70. wobblie
    Posted October 9, 2018 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

    the US sold $55.6 Billion worth of weapons overseas this year. A 33% increase from 2017.

  71. Allan
    Posted September 27, 2020 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    Wow. I’ve never seen so much ignorance in one place before. So much misuse of the English language, misspelled words, and poor grammar. No wonder most of you have stupid ideas. You’re stupid people! So much idiocy to comment on but I don’t think any of you are intelligent enough to comprehend. I will comment only on the morons complaining about military spending. Yes, it would be nice if we lived in a world free of military threats but we do not have that kind of a world. The only reason imbeciles like you are able to comment openly in a free society is because of the United States military. This has been true since the Revolutionary War. Our adversaries only respect strength and if we are ever perceived as weak and vulnerable we will invite aggression. Thank God for our active service military as well as our veterans for keeping us free.

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