Jeff Flake says that, if Kavanaugh lied under oath, it would be disqualifying… Well, guess what?

I hate to belabor the point that Brett Kavanaugh is a liar, as I know we just spent a long time discussing it the other day, but, having just watched last night’s 60 Minutes segment with Republican Senator Jeff Flake, I feel as though I have no choice but to mention it again. In the segment, for those of you who might not have seen it, Scott Pelley asked Flake, “If Judge Kavanaugh is shown to have lied to the committee, nomination’s over?” And, in response, Flake said, “Oh, yes.”

Here’s the video.

Like I mentioned above, we’ve already talked about several instances in which Judge Kavanaugh, under oath, lied to the Senate Judiciary Committee. Since we last spoke about it, though, at least two new lies have been brought to the surface.

First, as you might recall, Kavanaugh said dramatically in his testimony last Thursday that he got into Yale by working incredibly hard. “I have no connections there,” he told the members of the committee. “I got there by busting my tail.” Well, as it turns out, that wasn’t exactly the case. Truth is, Kavanaugh was accepted into Yale at least in part because was considered a “legacy” applicant, as his grandfather had attended the school. So, when he said that he couldn’t possibly have drank his youth away, as he needed to focus on his athletics, and earning his spot at Yale, it wasn’t exactly true. [By the way, is there anything douchier than a rich, privileged white guy referring to himself as a self-made man?]

And, second, it’s looking as though Kavanaugh lied when Orrin Hatch asked him when he’d first heard about allegations of sexual misconduct made by his Yale classmate Deborah Ramirez. Hatch, as you can see in the excerpt of the transcript below, asked when Kavanaugh had first heard about the charges, and Kavanaugh responded that he’d heard about her claims only after the piece ran in the New Yorker. Well, it’s looking now as though that too was a lie. NBC News is reporting this evening that, before the allegations were published by the New Yorker, Kavanaugh was already “personally talking with former classmates about Ramirez’s story,” looking for information to help discredit her story of sexual abuse. And they apparently have copies of text messages from the Judge that prove this.

That’s two more lies under oath… in addition to all of those that we’ve already discussed.

So, given this, is it safe to assume that Flake will be voting against Kavanaugh?

And what about Lindsey Graham, who said back on January 23, 1999 that, even if a judge commits perjury “even once,” he must be immediately impeached? Can we count on him to stay true to his word? [Here’s Graham’s full quote: “I have argued to you that when you found that a judge was a perjurer, you couldn’t in good conscience send him back in a courtroom because everybody that came in that courtroom thereafter would have a real serious doubt.”]

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50 Comments

  1. Meta
    Posted October 1, 2018 at 11:23 pm | Permalink

    Harvard Law School professor Andrew Manuel Crespo in the Washington Post.

    Two years ago, a federal court of appeals held that polygraph tests are “an important law enforcement tool” that can help investigators “test the credibility of witnesses” and “screen applicants” for “critical” government positions. The judge who wrote that opinion: Brett M. Kavanaugh.

    Last week, the Senate Judiciary Committee asked Kavanaugh whether he would be willing to take a polygraph test regarding the multiple sexual assault allegations he faces as he seeks a seat on the Supreme Court. Considering such a request himself, Kavanaugh departed from his prior judicial opinion and told the Senate that polygraphs are “not reliable.” But still, when pressed by Sen. Kamala D. Harris (D-Calif.) about taking one, Kavanaugh ultimately said, “I’ll do whatever the committee wants.”

    The committee has now asked the FBI to investigate the allegations. As part of that investigation, Kavanaugh should heed his own words and agree to undergo a polygraph test administered by the FBI, which could shed substantial light on the accusations he faces.

    Read more:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/kavanaugh-once-wrote-in-favor-of-polygraphs-now-he-says-theyre-unreliable/2018/10/01/556fc60c-c5ae-11e8-9158-09630a6d8725_story.html

  2. iRobert
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 6:04 am | Permalink

    EOS, HW, and I want to see Senator Feinstein and her staff take polygraph tests. As any Republican can tell you, the most important thing in any Supreme Court nomination processes is determining who leaked info exposing what the GOP was trying to cover up.

  3. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    Perjury consists of 1) intentional 2) false statements 3) on material matters that might have a substantial effect on the outcome of a judgment.

    Are we really going to assume that Flake’s decision should be concerned with these 2 kinda/sorta false statements, that leave tons of room for equivocation, which have uncertain intent and are not about a material matter?

    Strictly speaking Kavanaugh’s grandfather did not attend Yale law school and was not a connection “there”. By all accounts Kavanaugh had awesome grades….Who cares?

    Also, isn’t there a ton of room for equivocating on when he heard the second accusers official accusation?

    I don’t want to waste time on this. Kavanaugh already disqualified himself in my mind, but the reasoning here is so silly. Sorry.

  4. M
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 8:37 am | Permalink

    Great quote, iRobert: “As any Republican can tell you, the most important thing in any Supreme Court nomination processes is determining who leaked info exposing what the GOP was trying to cover up.”

    I want to hear Republican mobs chanting “strap her down” (for a polygraph test) about Feinstein the way they chant “lock her up.”

  5. M
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    Talk about “equivocating,” you’re arguing that Kavanaugh didn’t have familial connections at Yale because his grandfather just attended Yale, and not Yale Law. That’s hilarious.

  6. M
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    For what it’s worth, it’s not just these two lies. These are just the two most recent. The bigger lies, which have been discussed on this site before, involve Kavanaugh’s role in the Pryor nomination and his acceptance of stolen Democratic documents. He lied under oath about both matters.

  7. Jeff Gaynor
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 9:31 am | Permalink

    Have you discussed Chad Ludington’s Statement on Kavanaugh’s Drinking and Senate Testimony? This is a clear contradiction of what Kavanaugh said about his drinking. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/30/us/politics/chad-ludington-statement-brett-kavanaugh.html

  8. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    M,

    Yuck. I meant to say “room for clarification” not “room for equivocation”.

    Kavanagh’s statement that he had “no connections” at Yale Law was a vague statement and obviously a statement based on his own judgment, of himself, trying to convey his belief that he earned his way into Yale Law. Is it an untrue statement? Can we prove that it is untrue? Should whether or not his grandfather went to Yale Law School (he didn’t) have any bearing upon our judgments around a hearing that had the allegations of sexual assault as its primary line of inquiry.

    We must have different senses of humor. I thought it was hilarious that Mark would bother to attempt to raise Kavanaugh’s statement to the level of perjury, or even intentional lie, that is 1) strictly not untrue by the familial-connection standard he uses, and by its very nature is of no material consequence to the judgment, in a line of inquiry, which has as its main subject, an allegation of sexual assault.

    Not to mention that Mark’s little argument is happening within the context of Flake saying he will not confirm if he is shown to have lied about ______.

    Should we fill in with “Grandpa”?

    It gave me a chuckle. It’s cool if you don’t find it funny.

  9. Lynne
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    This is a pretty in depth analysis of Kavanaugh’s Thursday testimony

    https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/09/how-we-know-kavanaugh-is-lying

    I will note that lying and perjury are not exactly the same. I would be surprised if he is charged with the crime of perjury but he has absolutely been dishonest enough to disqualify him from the court. It would be awesome though if some persecutor could prove such a charge though because then he could be impeached and removed from the federal bench entirely.

  10. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    I hear you Lynne. I try to be open minded on the big allegations. I just don’t believe Kavanaugh on the small stuff–the yearbook, the drinking, and his partisan bias has been fully put on display. I don’t see how he can possibly be confirmed.

  11. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    How is it partisan to identify and defend against a partisan attack? We’re going to attack you and then if you defend we’ll call it an attack.

  12. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    What really scares Dems and Never-Trumpers about a Justice Kavanaugh:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_gmOsnjrZw

    Listen carefully. Think about those 57,000 sealed indictments. You don’t sense any danger even now? You don’t think there is panic behind these accusations?

  13. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    HW, Even if the sexual assault claims were totally fabricated and the allegations turned out to be sourced in, and orchestrated by, Hillary Clinton herself, Kavanaugh, can’t display a bias for one political group over the other, prior to the truth coming out, if ever. The expectation is that Judges are people who are above bias. Even if they are not truly impartial (they aren’t) the legitimacy of the institution relies on the maintained appearance of impartiality. Kavanaugh is human. If he wanted to be a Justice he should have suppressed his outrage and faked it. I know it sounds crazy but I think it is true. He failed miserably, imo. There is no coming back from his outburst. It has to be over for him. If it is not over for him it will just hurt our country. If he is innocent of the sexual assault then I certainly hope it comes out and he is able to live a normal life. I also hope any proven false accusations are prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Investigating Swetnick would probably be a good start toward that end.

  14. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    Quote him. I don’t recall him displaying bias.

  15. wobblie
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 11:47 am | Permalink

    HW, they have issued some of those sealed Federal Indictments

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/charlottesville-arrests-unite-the-right-rally_us_5bb3813de4b00fe9f4fac630

  16. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 11:55 am | Permalink

    Nice

  17. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 11:58 am | Permalink

    Michigan relatively clean

    https://imgur.com/a/HKqYPVa

  18. John Brown
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

    He’s a typical frat boy privileged white prepster.
    The FBI should look seriously into whether he cheated in school, which would be consistent with his generally sketchy integrity. The SCOTUS should be our most distinguished legal scholars, regardless of political ideology. Maybe K-bro can get a gig judging spring break drinking games and wet t-shirt contests. Seems more like his wheelhouse.

  19. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    HW,

    I am paraphrasing here, but in his opening statement Kavanaugh said something like: “This hearing is an orchestrated political hit job…..coming about because Clinton and her supporters are angry about the election of Trump”.

    Sorry, I paraphrased but I am not able to hunt down the exact quote right now. What Kavanaugh said was unacceptable for someone to say if they are aspiring to be a Supreme Court Justice. To be honest, when he said I assumed he knew he would not get confirmed anyway, so he let his true feelings out and saw as an opportunity to throw a final punch. Surprised he is still in play.

  20. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

    Sounds like it is in the bag. Certain Dems on board too.

    Oct 2 2018 14:31:13 (EST)
    53-47
    Q

  21. M
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

    Donald Trump with the big takeaway.

    President Trump: “It’s a very scary time for young men in America”

  22. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

    I don’t see why that is unacceptable to you. That’s the truth. It’s against Trump. Kavanaugh just happens to be the guy.

  23. M
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    What are you talking about? Trump’s last Supreme Court nominee, Neil Gorsuch, sailed through with Democratic support, and that was right after the theft of the Merrick Garland seat. This is about Kavanaugh being unfit for the bench.

  24. Karen T.
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    Read this by Benjamin Wittes. It’s devastating.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/why-i-wouldnt-confirm-brett-kavanaugh/571936/

  25. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    Is 54 votes in the Senate total sailing? What are YOU talking about?

  26. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

    HW,

    In my opinion Kavanaugh very quickly violated “Codes of Conduct for US Federal Judges”. Specifically, his conduct violated aspects of Canon 2, and Canon 3. Judges must maintain the appearance of bias because erodes the people’s faith in the judiciary. His stating the hearing as a political “hit job”, especially when his assertion is unproven, is an obvious and egregious violation of the word and spirit of the Codes of conduct. Very human of Kavanaugh to have the outbursts , but, if becoming a Justice without simultaneously undermining the legitimacy of the office, it was also very dumb.’

  27. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

    Oops. Should read: “Avoid the appearance of bias” not “maintain bias”.

  28. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

    He said they are biased against him. If he is innocent then he knows it for a fact. I don’t think you can attack someone with extreme bias and then say they are biased when they point that out. No Canonical crisis I’m sure.

  29. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

    It might *feel* like he is the victim of a political hit job. It might even actually be a political hit job. But, he does not *know* that it is a political hit job.

    It would have been fine if Kavanaugh talked about how he felt while maintaining his innocence. He chose a different route.

  30. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

    If it is a hit job then I think he could know it about as much as you can know anything.

  31. Frosted Flakes
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

    Coordinated and orchestrated hit? Kavanaugh could be innocent and Ford could believe she is telling the truth…

  32. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

    Timing of release. Leak? Who had letter?

  33. Jean Henry
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

    I have heard from some of my old highschook classmates who attended Yale undergrad with Kavanaugh. He was indeed known to be a heavy drinker and a bad angry drunk. His roommate (who wrote a letter to that effect backing up Ramirez) was thought to be a good guy. A few knew him well.

    I don’t know if it rises to perjury but it certainly speaks to poor character— not to drink to excess in college but to lie about it 30 years later under oath. Generally speaking. When we get over some problematic behavior, we don’t have a problem talking about it.

  34. Jean Henry
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

    FBI purportedly uninterested In Hearing from Kav’s peers apparently…

  35. Jean Henry
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 9:52 pm | Permalink

    Kavanaugh is supposed to be impartial and non Partisan. That’s his job, HW. To express partisan rancor in a confirmation hearing is the equivalent of someone else yelling aggressively during a job interview or insulting the interviewer.
    Oh he did that too.
    No one has ever behaved that way in a judicial confirmation hearing before. It’s unacceptsble. And they are always difficult and politicized. No matter what the outcome of the investigation it would be a travesty to place him on the Supreme Court. The constitution matters. He behaved like he didn’t know his damn job description or didn’t care.

  36. Joe Manchin for Truth
    Posted October 2, 2018 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

    Joe Manchin says if the FBI discovers Kavanaugh has lied about anything, “that finishes everything.”

    “If they can corroborate and there’s lying I think everyone’s said that. Democrats, Republicans, even the president. So I don’t think that’s a question.”

  37. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 3, 2018 at 7:57 am | Permalink

    “To express partisan rancor in a confirmation hearing”

    But if he is innocent the hearing itself is partisan rancor.

  38. Jean Henry
    Posted October 3, 2018 at 9:00 am | Permalink

    HW— partisan rancor is expected from elected officials. The legislative process is an adversarial one with advocates from different parties representing different sets of interests . The judicial process is designed in the constitution to be non partisan and unbiased. Judge Kavanaugh’s comments and behavior may be understandable but they are grossly unacceptable from nominee to the highest court in the country.

  39. Jean Henry
    Posted October 3, 2018 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    HW you ;and your hero the president) have shown zero respect in the past for fundamental US constitutional and democratic principles. I have no idea why I bother explaining them to you now.

  40. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 3, 2018 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    It’s worse than rancor. It’s lying under oath to try to destroy Justice Kavanaugh. It’s your people who have inflicted damage to the Constitution. Some of them are going to face capital punishment for treason and some will go to Gitmo. There will be undeniable evidence for their crimes.

  41. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 3, 2018 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    How could someone backing the bogus dossier and the unconstitutional Mueller “probe” and allll those liars associated with it (now fired or “asked to resign”) say I and the pres have no respect for the Constitution?

  42. Jean Henry
    Posted October 3, 2018 at 11:03 am | Permalink

    If Ford lied under oath then Kavanaugh and the gop should welcome a full unlimited fbi investigation.

  43. Jean Henry
    Posted October 3, 2018 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    Your fantasies of a progrom imprisoning liberals are sick, HW.

  44. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 3, 2018 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    Criminals, not liberals and I guarantee it is not a fantasy.

  45. iRobert
    Posted October 3, 2018 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    Are you promising to disappear again if it doesn’t happen on 1/1/19?

  46. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 3, 2018 at 11:34 am | Permalink

    I guess I’ll appear and disappear as I like.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4B_CG53KhM

  47. iRobert
    Posted October 3, 2018 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    So, HW, no promises? :(

    Are you Paul Jensen? …Ann Arbor’s long time local GOP strategist?

    Is this your twitter account?
    https://mobile.twitter.com/beadoz

  48. iRobert
    Posted October 3, 2018 at 11:54 am | Permalink

    Ya know, HW, the last time you disappeared, things around here got really dull. The blog really lost its appeal. It was clear the air was let out.

    I assumed you overdosed. Jean was inconsolable.

    I asked Mark to consider producing a thread dedicated to you, where we could all share our personal stories of how you brightened our lives. It was going to be like an online memorial. I was hoping EOS would pretend to be a priest and say a few words in your memory.

  49. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted October 3, 2018 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    Why you wanna be dull?

  50. iRobert
    Posted October 3, 2018 at 12:22 pm | Permalink

    Anyway, I’m glad you’re back. I’m just kidding about you promising to disappear if these indictments don’t come down soon. I know you’re not going to leave. I know nothing is going to make you leave.

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