Trump’s chief economic advisor tells the American people that Republican tax cuts created so much growth that the deficit is falling. They didn’t. And it’s not.

Again, I know it doesn’t do any good to point out the blatant lies of the right, or speculate as to how certain things might have been treated differently by the press under previous administrations, but I felt compelled to share the above video of Donald Trump’s top economic advisor, Larry Kudlow, the Director of the National Economic Council, who, yesterday morning, emphatically told viewers of the Fox Business Network that, “The deficit… is coming down, and it’s coming down rapidly.”

The problem is, this isn’t even remotely true, by any standard.

Here’s a clip from today’s Washington Post explaining the fact that the deficit, thanks in large part to Republican tax cuts for the super-wealthy, is actually rising.

…The deficit in fiscal year 2017 ($665 billion) was bigger than it was in fiscal year 2016 ($587 billion). And the GOP has now passed its big trillion-dollar tax-cut package and ramped up spending in other areas. The result? The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office projects that the deficit will climb to $1 trillion annually by 2020 — a number not hit since the recession spurred Congress to pass an economic stimulus package in 2009.

Even if you consider the deficit not as a raw number but as a percentage of the broader economy — which is probably a better measure, given inflation — it is expected to grow and then stay steady in the coming years, per CBO…

And here’s the actual chart from the CBO, showing the rate at which the deficit is growing.

Personally, I don’t expect much from Kudlow. He, after all, was the author of the late 2007 National Review article titled “Bush Boom Continues,” which argued that we shouldn’t pay attention to the “doom and gloom from the economic pessimistas.” There would be no recession, he said at the time, only continued growth. All we had to do, he said, was keep cutting taxes and deregulating industry. He, of course, was wrong. The bottom did fall out, and a recession ensued.

And he’s wrong here… Actually, I take that back… He’s not wrong here. He’s lying here. He knows full well that the deficit isn’t coming down. He knows that it’s rising. But, with the midterm elections coming in November, he’s been given the task to paint a rosy picture of America’s economic future. And that’s what he’s doing… facts be damned. He is lying. And his lies are then being packaged and distributed by the right wing propaganda network that we know as Fox News… the same group that keeps telling us how many regular Americans got huge bonuses and pay raises as a result of the $1 trillion Republican tax cut, even though most of us can’t name a single person who personally benefited. This is the world we now live in. It would have been absolutely unthinkable even two years ago, but here we are.

Oh, and speaking of the lies being perpetuated by Fox Business on behalf of the administration, here’s one of my all time favorites.

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424 Comments

  1. John Galt
    Posted June 30, 2018 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    America just keeps getting greater by the minute and you can stand it, can you? Why not stop being so angry and join the rest of us as we celebrate the mass shootings and the imprisonment of babies? Let go of the hate and join us. There is much joy to be had, my white brother.

  2. Eel
    Posted June 30, 2018 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

    Why, if this is easily proven false, does Twitter allow it to stay up?

  3. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 30, 2018 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

    Yeah dude, even your stupid commenteos on your site are willing to call people “immature” and “crazy” for calling out bigots and right wing morons, what do you expect?

    Wrong priorities. People here was to protect power.

    Sad.

  4. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 30, 2018 at 10:46 pm | Permalink

    The right wingers and the right wing apologists will eventually get what they want.

    Women will not be able to have control of their bodies, schools will teach “creation sciences”, liberal media outlets will not longer be able to report on anything at all, and naturalized citizens will lose their citizenship.

    Racists and xenophobes have won.

  5. Anonymous
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 7:30 am | Permalink

    Kudlow also said that Trump is the most virile man he was ever seen. Describes him chopping wood shirtlesss, the sweat glistening on his tanned chest, an eagle perched on on shoulder.

  6. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 8:43 am | Permalink

    IL2,

    As far as I can tell everyone here want you to address bigotry when and where you actually see it, but you fail to do it. You just call people names and speak in abstractions propped up by a bunch of assumptions.

    Mark pointed out Kudlow’s actual lie. Good job, Mark.

    Mark getting something right here, doesn’t change the fact that you often employ the logic of a bigot and the tactics of of a propagandist on this site.

  7. Posted July 1, 2018 at 8:45 am | Permalink

    “(Mark) employ(s) the logic of a bigot and the tactics of a propagandist.”

    Do tell. I’m all ears.

  8. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    I was addressing IL2.

  9. MAGA
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    Trump was right when, during the campaign, he predicted we’d all get tired of winning all the time. Well, then he took it back and said we’d actually not get tired. But he was right the first time, for a lot of us are very tired of how great America is getting. But he was also right when he took that back a moment later and said we wouldn’t really get tired. Because we aren’t really tired of all this winning. He was right twice in the same minute, even in contradicting himself like that. That’s probably a world record. I’m sure it is. He’s the greatest president we’ve ever had, and America is as great or greater than its ever been. It’s probably greater now than it was in World War II. It’s way greater than it was during the revolution.

  10. iRobert
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    If you’re going to lie some of the time, why not lie all of the time. It just makes sense. You’re just mad because you’re losing. Face it, you’re a loser.

  11. iRobert
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    Lying is a very smart strategy. Mark just wishes he would have thought of this very brilliant strategy first. He’s jealous. Mark’s jealous of Trump. What else could we conclude? This is about Mark and his jealousy.

  12. iRobert
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 11:34 am | Permalink

    Jean, will you do me a favor? I’m worried about EOS and HW. Could you stop by their places and do a welfare check. They might just be out winning and helping to make America great again. But I want to be sure. It’s possible HW might have overdosed.

  13. Sad
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    If you look closely at the video I posted you can clearly see HW and EOS. They’re in Portland stirring thing up.

  14. Jean Henry
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 11:58 am | Permalink

    iRobert– I’m sure they are out celebrating as their side is surely winning.
    That SCOTUS appointment must have EOS over the moon.
    And HW will never think he is wrong, no matter the circumstances.

  15. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

    There is only so much of the insanity I can take at a stretch. It’s amazing how my mere presence provokes such hysteria. Too busy learning to post on here most of the time anyway.

  16. Jean Henry
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

    FF– I will come in as a second asking the specifics of your propagandist and bigotry charge against IL. I have been called both many times on this site so I’m truly interested at this point in the logical framework that gets one to that conclusion re IL. Is he a bigot because he calls white nationalists racist? Or is it that he does not call Anti-fascists racist? Or is it that he suggests that obesity is both a legitimate public health concern and subject to substantial cultural bias? At once? And that we need to talk about it anyway?

    And who would he be a propagandist for exactly? Is he hired by some foolish agency to represent their interests? Or does he just shill for some party pro-bono. The only thing I personally see him shilling for is science. And even those positions are not reflective of the kind of black/white, absolutist thinking of a propagandist.

    I assume you have some basis for your impression just as you asked IL for the basis of his. The basis of yours is very unclear to me, while the basis of his is usually clear to me. That may be the limitations of my own perspective. Please enlighten me.

  17. iRobert
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

    Whew! It’s a relief to hear from you, HW. These crazy bastards here on Mark’s blog somehow don’t understand the brilliance behind Kudlow’s lying. I’m glad you’re here to explain it to them.

    After all, it’s not like he is lying to the American people. He’s lying to the fake press. He’s giving them a taste of their own medicine.

    And it’s not like Kudlow speaks for the president. He is doing the best job he can with no information, just like Sanders does. I don’t know how people think these good folks can answer questions about what’s going on in another person’s mind. What do they think these people are, Trump mindreaders?

  18. Jean Henry
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    HW is too busy with the complicated mental calculus required of conspiracy theories to deal with the simple math of facts and lies presented here.

  19. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    Last time I mentioned sealed indictments you evaporated. Now it is over 40,000 around the country. Should be easy to find someone to debunk such a bold claim if it is not true. A lot of what is called conspiracy theory is true.

    Regarding the deficit it seems like people here are taking a projection as fact. I guess Hillary Clinton is President then because she was projected to have a 97% chance of winning.

  20. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

    Latest pacer.gov screenshot. Normal years have about a thousand or two. Who are these for?

    https://qanon.pub/data/images/950ffc514becbcf660641ded72f1e8b44af9cb059a9b3b36f4946a88c0a5109d.jpeg

  21. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 1:29 pm | Permalink

    JH,

    I have already explained the logic of bigotry, in another post, to you, with clearer than crystal clarity and you did not get it…. IL shamelessly lies about people to serve his personal and political agenda, obviously.

    (If I can remember the threads where I spelled out the logic of bigotry and racism I will re-direct you there, and you can have another go at it, but I can’t remember the threads right now.)

  22. Jean Henry
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

    QAnon is the ultimate source.

    Oh jy! HW will becoming back to us with a bold new approach parroted from the pages of his favorite conspiracy theorist.

    FF– So you are criticizing IL for not backing up his claims of bigotry in specificity while backing up your own by referring to a thread from months ago that addressed the concept of bigotry generally.

    check.

    PS It’s not up to the writer to decide whether one’s point was clear or not. That’s for the reader to determine. That’s what communication is– a 2 way street. Otherwise, it’s just grandstanding monologue.

  23. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    Q is in the Trump organization, Jean. POTUS is part of it.

  24. iRobert
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    There is a grand plan being carried out right now. The end result will be the greatest America ever. It might not seem to you that Kudlow’s lies are good for America, but that’s just because you don’t see what a genius Trump is yet. Maybe you should all smoke a higher quality weeeed product.

  25. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    I am not going to argue with your summary. It is close enough to true, Jean. #notlivinginaperfectworld

  26. Sad
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    After reading this I’ll sleep well tonight.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/30/opinion/sunday/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-maureen-dowd.html?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share

    You all can just carry on.

  27. Jean Henry
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    Sad— you may like this as well:
    https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2018/6/30/1777066/-Emergency-Doctor-for-Medicare-for-All-runs-against-Erik-Prince-Betsy-DeVos-Congressman

  28. Iron Lung 2
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 4:47 am | Permalink

    “Q is in the Trump organization, Jean. POTUS is part of it.”

    lol

    The White House Department of Propaganda for Stoners

  29. Iron Lung 2
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 5:25 am | Permalink

    So calling out white supremacists and their enablers makes one a racist.

    Thinking that parents shouldn’t feed their kids diets which put them at risk for chronic health conditions makes one bigoted against the obese.

    lol

  30. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 5:54 am | Permalink

    Department of Cleaning Up Pieces of Shit. It’s coming for you.

  31. Jean Henry
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 6:37 am | Permalink

    FF seems to believe that the use of irony and parody makes one a liar.

    I am very pleased to not share his political (or any other) perspective.

  32. Jean Henry
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 6:49 am | Permalink

    ^^that was the only conclusion I could derive from this, which I really don’t understand otherwise:

    “IL shamelessly lies about people to serve his personal and political agenda, obviously.”

    Does IL lie about people? Please explain how and where?
    By suggesting HW is a pothead? HW confirms that.

    By suggesting HW is excessively concerned with the rights of men and white pople, which he believes are at risk? That’s been well demonstrated.

    By suggesting that calling for civility when addressing racism and sexism (in a culture with excessive levels violence directed at women and POC) is something legitimately questioned?
    By taking the position that defending civility under such circumstances actually threatens civility by protecting sexism and racism?

    Really, you cant imagine anyone taking that position without lying?

    FF, I’m truly confused. And please try to answer my questions without diverting into speculation about my intent in asking them. You have hammered away at this civility idea without clearly articulating your position.

    When is it appropriate to stand up to racists?
    Or do you feel you just did?

    Is IL the worst form of racism and bigotry you can imagine? And does he represent a political and cultural movement that frightens you for the future of our country?

  33. Iron Lung
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 7:05 am | Permalink

    “IL shamelessly lies about people to serve his personal and political agenda, obviously.”

    lol

    I would like to hear what my “personal and political agenda” is.

    Regardless, the Mr. Flakes thinks that we should be civil toward those who advocate for ethnic cleansing, either in word or in deed.

    It is interesting that right wingers like to spread the falsehood that slaves deserved their fate, because they didn’t resist. Yet, now they ask us to be “civil” towards the people who actively celebrate or enable white supremacy. According to right wing legend, being civil towards slave owners was a failing?

    So which is it? Speak up or no?

    I would have like to see the Mr. Flakes during the civil rights era. Would he have asked people protesting segregation to be civil?

    Very strange.

  34. Iron Lung
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 7:06 am | Permalink

    “Department of Cleaning Up Pieces of Shit. It’s coming for you.”

    Of course, the Mr. Warlord would advocate for a totalitarian state, gulags and all.

    Unsurprising.

  35. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 8:15 am | Permalink

    Why are you always lying, IL?

  36. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 8:18 am | Permalink

    What would George Lakoff do, Jean?

  37. Jean Henry
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 8:22 am | Permalink

    Mr Warlord is so clearly supportive of totalitarian action (beyond all his other failings) that it’s a wonder Sad and FF etc feel a need to defend him.

    Of course totalitarians offer speed, order and control over Democracy’s incrementalism, uncertainty, and distributed power. That, historically has been their appeal.

    Democracy is so f-r-u-s-t-r-a-t-i-n-g! We have a sense of urgency about the need for change! We cant wait for everyone to get with the progrom…

  38. Judd Legum by proxy
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 8:30 am | Permalink

    Ivanka Trump went on TV today and bragged about how “people who have been out of the workforce are coming back off the sidelines.”

    The workforce participation rate is actually slightly down since Trump became president

    https://t.co/LpGulli1Jq

  39. Jean Henry
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 8:30 am | Permalink

    FF– how was IL lying? Please explain in such a way as to offer others a counter. That’s simply the civil thing to do.

    I dont think Mr Lakoff would entirely oppose IL’s tactics with HW. He clearly understand how totalitarianism works. “There’s a place for angry response and outrage. That’s only human. But we also need strategic action to make sure every passing day fuels positive action towards progress.” I dont think IL regards his commentary here as strategic action. I know I don’t. And I’s put my level of civic engagement up against yours any day. Dealing with HW is a break from that work. Not the work. Although his commentary certainly warrants response.

    Some people would find Mr Lakoff’s position naive at best. I’m stunned that you believe defending HW from confrontation would have any positive impact whatsoever on the future of civil society.

  40. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 8:55 am | Permalink

    So cleaning up pieces of shit is totalitarian. Huh!

  41. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    “Regardless, the Mr. Flakes thinks that we should be civil toward those who advocate for ethnic cleansing, either in word or in deed.”

    You are mentally ill.

  42. Meta
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 9:01 am | Permalink

    Forbes: “On The Deficit, GOP Has Been Playing Us All For Suckers”

    Think about this. The same congressional Republicans who over the previous eight years wanted everyone to believe they were fiscal conservatives hell-bent on balancing the budget and not increasing the national debt, sponsored, passed and then danced around the fire because of legislation that will result in a permanent $1 trillion deficit and a debt that will soar to close to 100 percent of GDP by 2028.

    And…House and Senate Republicans were enabled by a GOP president who during his campaign said he would eliminate the deficit and completely pay off the debt.

    But it’s not just that congressional Republicans and Trump faked far right and then actually went far left with these two bills that makes what they’re doing a federal budget confidence game. They also:

    1. Hid the real cost of the tax cut with the phaseouts so they could claim they were being fiscally judicious while they were actually being economically reckless.

    2. First insisted the tax cuts would pay for themselves and then admitted in the president’s fiscal 2019 budget released several months later that they would actually increase the deficit, big-time.

    3. Viciously attacked the nonpartisan and very credible Congressional Budget Office for not producing cost estimates that made it easier for them to do what they wanted.

    4. Enacted a huge tax cut that skyrocketed the deficit and a $1.3 trillion fiscal 2019 omnibus appropriation that increased it further and then insisted that the real problem is Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.

    5. Continually complained about mandatory spending but, even though they had the majority in both houses of Congress and control of the White House, didn’t seriously try to do anything about it.

    6. Refused to do a fiscal 2019 budget resolution because, after first enacting the tax and spending legislation that blasted the annual federal budget deficit to over $1 trillion, didn’t want GOP members to have go on record in favor of those same deficits.

    7. Kept saying that the deficit problem was because the congressional budget process is broken when, in fact, the process has actually enabled the GOP House and Senate Republican majorities to do exactly what they’ve wanted to do and hasn’t forced them to do anything they’ve wanted to avoid.

    8. First enacted legislation that created the permanent trillion-dollar deficits and then had the unmitigated temerity to demand that the House vote on an amendment to the U.S. Constitution that would make it illegal for the federal government to run deficits.

    9. Implied that the tax cuts and military spending increases they support (and the growing interest payments on the debt caused by those tax cuts and military spending increases) don’t have an impact on the deficit.

    10. Made it clear that, at the same time they want to reduce revenues and increase funds for the Pentagon, only the domestic part of the budget should be cut.

    Just like winning a game of three-card monte played on a cardboard box on a street corner, none of what we’re being told about the budget by congressional Republicans and the Trump White House is real. But based on how they’ve operated so far, they obviously think they can keep running this game successfully.

    Read more:
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/stancollender/2018/04/15/on-the-deficit-gop-has-been-playing-us-all-for-suckers/#71da58fc4694

  43. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    Lying is a way of life to these people, Flakes. It’s their medium. They don’t even know it just like a fish does not know what water is.

    Truth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vw9N96E-aQ&frags=pl%2Cwn

  44. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    Q !CbboFOtcZs ID: eff7c9 No.1972546 ????
    Jun 30 2018 13:36:13 (EST)

    You have a choice.
    The choice has always been yours.
    POWER TO THE PEOPLE.
    THEY WANT YOU DIVIDED.
    THEY WANT RACE WARS.
    THEY WANT CLASS WARS.
    THEY WANT RELIGIOUS WARS.
    THEY WANT POLITICAL WARS.
    THEY USE THE MEDIA.
    THEY USE HOLLYWOOD.
    THEY USE POLITICAL LEADERS.
    THEY ARE LOUD.
    GROUP THINK.
    PUBLIC SHAME AGAINST THOSE WHO CHALLENGE.
    SLAVERY.
    THEY KNOW WHAT IS COMING.
    IT IS NOW MORE CLEAR THAN EVER.
    NEVER IN OUR HISTORY HAVE THEY BEEN THIS EXPOSED.
    NEVER IN OUR HISTORY HAVE THEY COME OUT FROM THE SHADOWS TO FIGHT.
    THE TRUTH IS CLEARLY VISIBLE.
    DEFEND MS-13?
    DEFEND THE DESTRUCTION OF OUR BORDERS?
    PROMOTE THE FEAR NUCLEAR WAR IF POTUS REMAINS IN OFFICE?
    NUCLEAR ALERTS MALFUNCTION?
    COMPARE TO HITLER/NAZIS?
    PROMOTE VIOLENCE?
    PROMOTE HATE?
    PROMOTE WAR?
    PROMOTE ECONOMIC DECLINE?
    PROMOTE NK TO END TALKS W/ POTUS?
    PROMOTE IMPEACHMENT FOR NO REASON?
    PROMOTE RACISM?
    PROMOTE FACISM?
    PROMOTE RIOTS?
    FORM ANTIFA – VIOLENT GROUP DESIGNED TO INSTILL FEAR IN FREE SPEECH.
    HATRED FOR AMERICA.
    SHEEP FOLLOW BLINDLY.
    THEY ARE SCARED.
    THEY ARE LOSING CONTROL.
    WE KNEW THIS DAY WOULD COME.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2qIXXafxCQ????
    WE PLANNED.
    WE TOOK CONTROL OVER KEY ELEMENTS.
    WE STAND AT THE READY.
    WE FIGHT.
    DARK TO LIGHT.
    GOD BLESS AMERICA.
    GOD BLESS PATRIOTS AROUND THE WORLD.
    THINK FOR YOURSELF.
    TRUST YOURSELF.
    COURAGE.
    TOGETHER.
    “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”
    “Be on your guard; stand firm in the faith; be courageous; be strong.”
    Q

  45. Iron Lung
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    I am afraid that I do not understand how holding the view that voting for a politician who ran on a platform of white supremacy is a substantive endorsement of white supremacy can be called “lying.”

    Strange.

  46. Iron Lung
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    ” I dont think IL regards his commentary here as strategic action. ”

    Of course I do not. I have no power.

  47. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 9:36 am | Permalink

    It’s because your assumption is a lie. See, it’s like a fish being like “what’s water?”

  48. Iron Lung
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 9:38 am | Permalink

    “It’s because your assumption is a lie. ”

    It is a fact that Donald Trump ran on a platform of white supremacy. That is not an assumption.

  49. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 9:41 am | Permalink

    No, it’s not. You should just talk about the reasons you think that and not act like it is simply true. This is how you get wrapped up in the web of lies.

  50. Iron Lung
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 9:52 am | Permalink

    “No, it’s not. You should just talk about the reasons you think that and not act like it is simply true. This is how you get wrapped up in the web of lies.”

    lol

  51. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 10:03 am | Permalink

    Your symptoms are showing (inappropriate fits of laughter).

  52. Jean Henry
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 10:24 am | Permalink

    The funniest part of the Q post is ‘THINK FOR YOURSELF”

  53. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    Oh, yeah – that’s hilarious. Couple o peas in a pod, you two. What are you going to say I wonder when your illusions are shattered. It’s bizarre how much you have bought into the lies. You can’t even think straight you have to cover for so many lies.

  54. Jean Henry
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 10:34 am | Permalink

    Whatever sympathy I had for conspiracy theories had to do with their suspicion of power. The Q conspiracy theory protects and justifies Teump’s power and seeks to concentrate it further. So I have nothing but total derision for this lone if thinking.

    “One twist, however, makes QAnon unusual. Conspiracy theories are usually about evil cabals manipulating world events. QAnon, by contrast, is a conspiracy theory in which the good guys — in this case, Trump and his allies — are in charge. It’s a dream of power rather than a bitter alibi for victimhood. It seems designed to cope with the cognitive dissonance caused by the gap between Trump as his faithful followers like to imagine him, and Trump as he is.“

  55. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    Taking charge from the criminals – that’s correct. Major deep state ass-whoopin’ about to commence. Your system you love so much is in fact going down. It’s not rhetoric. Just like your stick-swining Antifa boy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIWWSsRObyA&frags=pl%2Cwn

  56. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    stick-*swinging* antifa derp

  57. Jean Henry
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 10:43 am | Permalink

    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/04/06/opinion/qanon-trump-conspiracy-theory.html

    For months HW led us to believe he was coming up with all of this on his own, which was somewhat impressively delusional. In fact he is simply another sheep taken in by a wolf.

    Hw has probably never had an original thought. He just watches videos and listens to podcasts while stoned and experiences something that feels like a stunning revelation.

    He wont be the first or the last.

  58. Jean Henry
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 10:51 am | Permalink

    It seems that HW wakes and bakes in more ways than one:

    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ywex8v/what-is-qanon-conspiracy-theory

  59. Jean Henry
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 10:55 am | Permalink

    https://www.revealnews.org/blog/the-hate-report-the-relationship-between-fake-news-and-white-supremacy/

  60. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 11:16 am | Permalink

    I told you when Tony Podesta became under investigation it was bad news for you and the whole deep state back in October before Q even posted at all. I’ve been waiting for this my whole life. I confirmed I think Q is legit when asked anyway so I don’t know how you think I tried to pass it off as my own thoughts. The posts confirm a lot of things I already knew and provide avenues of research into the details. There is no way to understand Q by reading articles about it. You have to read the posts and find the significance of the content with your own (and others) research.

  61. Iron Lung
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 11:21 am | Permalink

    “You have to read the posts and find the significance of the content with your own (and others) research.”

    i.e. you have to be stoned to see the conneeeectiooooons man phuuuuck 420 cbdpotinjectionoilsinmyeeeeeyes

  62. Jean Henry
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    HW– In many months you never once linked to a Q or Qanon post to my recollection. You used other related sources. You indicated many many times that your thoughts were your and yours alone.

    Sin of omission. Still deception. And why?

    Yes you did cop to it once asked. Why the cover for so long?

    I think most of us are relieved that the person who came up with those ideas does not live among us. My son just came back from the corner store having noticed the white power hate (with iron cross) on the dude in front of him in line to buy milk. the guys truck had Trump stickers and confederate flags. We all like to think better of our neighbors.

  63. Iron Lung
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    Only a true fool would give Qanon any credibility at all. It is clearly designed to take advantage of the stoned or the mentally feeble, either as a practical joke or as a propaganda tool.

  64. Jean Henry
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    Ps My son was civil.
    From fear.
    That’s the seed of a a much larger problem.

  65. Jean Henry
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    “There is no way to understand Q by reading articles about it. You have to read the posts and find the significance of the content with your own (and others) research.”
    —-So you are given the conclusion and then do ‘independent’ research to confirm that conclusion?

    Narrative bias 101

  66. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    How come I talked about the changes to North Korea way before Kim asked to meet? Q posted in I think November that DJT met with Kim in China on the Asia trip last year. Funny how it is turning out then, huh? Considering you think it is foolish.

  67. Iron Lung
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    Dudes who wear white power shit or have confederate flags anywhere on their person in 2018 don’t deserve an ounce of civility. They need to be told publicly what fools they are.

    People who argue that ignoring it or having nice discussions is going to make it go away weren’t in the punk scene in the 1980s when racist skins started infesting live performances. They need to be told they aren’t welcome, anywhere at all.

    If one feels so inclined, urinating on their cars is a nice option, too.

  68. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    Who are you talking about that wears white power shit?

  69. Iron Lung
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    Jean’s kid saw you buying milk.

  70. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 11:36 am | Permalink

    “So you are given the conclusion and then do ‘independent’ research to confirm that conclusion?”

    No. That’s not how it works. The posts contain references to interesting people, places and events in the past, present and future. It’s up to you how much you want to educate yourself and make up your own mind.

  71. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 11:38 am | Permalink

    It’s weird how your thoughts are constantly devolving, Iron Lung.

  72. Iron Lung
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 11:38 am | Permalink

    “It’s up to you how much you want to educate yourself and make up your own mind.”

    Phuuuuuck man I let the weeeeeed see the truth for me 420 ICP baked eyes dead dog in the car phuuuuck where’s the baby?

  73. Iron Lung
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    ” My son just came back from the corner store having noticed the white power hate (with iron cross) on the dude in front of him in line to buy milk. the guys truck had Trump stickers and confederate flags. ”

    Amazing that the 420 Siberian Kushlord even has a vehicle.

  74. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    Jean thinks eugenicists are people who care! You people are out of your fucking mind. Holy shit. You know how the eyeball sees the world upside down and the brain has to invert it to see things correctly? You don’t have that. You see everything completely backwards, upside down, inside out…all kinds of fucked up.

  75. Iron Lung
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    “You know how the eyeball sees the world upside down and the brain has to invert it to see things correctly?”

    Phuuuuuckk when I smoke weed racists look like fuzzy unicorns and corrupt tyrants look like saints rub the 420 in my eeeeeeeeyes phuuuuuck so high

    Where did I put the baby? phuuuuuuckkkk late on child support yo forgot my bad

  76. Iron Lung
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 11:52 am | Permalink

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjMQlATPH6k

    Found the Siberian Kushlord himself soooo haaaaaiiiiiiii

  77. Jean Henry
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

    I think many people who care about social progress make terrible mistakes that create inverse results in a system that will often skew towards bad results. I prefer those people to those who dont give a shit about others except as useful to make some political point. HW cares about children when such concern plays to a conspiracy theory demonizing HRC and valorizing Trump. But he doesn’t give a shit about them when evidence emerges that they have been separated from their parents and held in detention by our own government for minor offenses. He’ll even put forward that they are detained and fostered out and then adopted for their own benefit. So long as it suits his concept of the axis of good/evil.

    And he is the person we should protect from uncivil discourse. I mean look what it does to him; it makes him mean and nasty… (another narrative bias).

    And EOS cares about fetuses but not the parents who bear responsibility for the children born from those fetuses and so not the children. Not the children at all. They are on their own. Especially the black and brown ones who clearly earned their fate. By being Black and Brown.

    Whatever we do, we must be civil to these people and their ideas. We must not upset them by disrupting their sense of righteousness.Who knows what will happen.

    Those of us who can bear the burden of vocal resistance should do so.

    I’m ok if my son waits until he’s a bit older however.

    My daughter would for sure have gotten in his face. I sometimes feel sorry for assholes and predators who cross her path. She’s a lot more vicious than I was at that age.
    Maybe she’s a bully too. I’d be ok with that.

  78. Jean Henry
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    Some people can afford the delusion of civil society protecting everyone’s interests equally. Usually, those same people are the ones whose interests are most protected by it. The idea of legitimately angry POC seeking vengeance is truly frightening for them– A fear that’s easily manipulated politically.

    The rest of us navigate our choices mediating between the need for resistance/self-defense and the safety of ourselves and others. So really its about mediating between short and long term safety concerns…

    It’s complicated and not easy and I’m not interested in judging other people’s choices that way.

    I will however defend the core institutions of our democracy from unwarranted attack and derision, in spite of how short they fall of fulfilling their mandate. That has nothing to do with civility.

    We are a nation born of resistance to domination by the more powerful AND the assertion of our own power over those less powerful.

    The assumption that nations of civility protects the former more than the latter is highly suspect.

  79. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 12:22 pm | Permalink

    Did not read.

  80. Iron Lung
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

    “Did not read.”

    he was afraid that his word would collapse as it inevitably will because of the new information contained within. the 42 Kushlord must be psychologically prepared for the inevitable.

    lol

  81. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    JH,

    I have said many times I am much much more concerned about accuracy rather than tone. The often repeated claim that there is some general “call for civility”, by me and others, on mm.com, is itself a big lie. Think about it. When have I ever said we should be “nicer” or “more civil”? I have pointed out when I see IL behaving ultra stupidly, with all of his “Phuuk 420” garbage, but more importantly I point out, when I have time, when I beleive someone is making inaccurate claims. The problem is not that you and IL are not being nice enough–Jesus fucking Christ.

    I think, a god first step, for example, would be for IL to investigate what the word “fact” means.

  82. Iron Lung
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

    It is a fact that Donald Trump ran on a platform of white supremacy.

    It is also a fact that some people voted for him.

    By action alone, the people who voted for him have actively endorsed white supremacy.

  83. Iron Lung
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

    “The problem is not that you and IL are not being nice enough–Jesus fucking Christ.”

    To who? People who voted for Donald Trump, and thus white supremacy?

    No time to be nice to such people.

  84. Iron Lung
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

    Interesting that Mr. Flakes offers the 420 Mr. Siberian Kushlord aid and comfort, given his claim of wanting “accuracy” and the 420 Siberian Kushlords love of batshit pot fueled conspiracy theories and tendency to misogyny and his love of Donald Trunp, who cannot seem to discern fact from fiction.

    Very interesting.

  85. Frosted Flake
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

    Jean once mentioned that she does not beleive in logic because people can manipulate syllogisms toward any conclusion whatsoever. Not believing in logic is strange on its own. Even stranger that she seems to see nothing wrong with the thought processes on display here.

    Something does not magically become a fact just because you happen to take that thing as fact, IL.

  86. Iron Lung
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 1:39 pm | Permalink

    “Something does not magically become a fact just because you happen to take that thing as fact, IL.”

    It is a fact that Donald Trump ran on a platform of white supremacy.

    It is also a fact that some people voted for him.

  87. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

    IL,

    Can you give quotes and context which reveal the fact that Trump ran on a white supremacy platform? There must be hundreds of examples if we are truly dealing with a known fact. Give us the top 5 worse examples, in your mind, so we can examine those items.

  88. Iron Lung
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

    “Clean up our inner cities” is the only dog whistle that you need to hear. Trump knows very well that white people in rural Mississippi could care less about Chicago.

    Not even a dog whistle, really.

    Note that Trump’s dog whistles were not without precedent. Reagan famously kicked off his campaign just feet away from Philadelphia, Mississippi clearly as an appeal to racists to gain the Republican vote in the South.

  89. Iron Lung
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

    Mr. Flakes indifference to appeals to racism in campaign politics indicates that he either A) doesn’t really have a problem with it or B) hasn’t been paying attention to politics in the United States for the past 242 years.

    Or both.

  90. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    Just looking for your best 5 examples, my friend. We can examine the quotes later.

    I like facts. Let’s establish a fact together…..

    So is the first quote that establishes that Trump ran on a platform of White supremacy that he promised to “clean up inner cities”?

    Four more, please. Let’s do this!

  91. Iron Lung
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

    No, I won’t pander to your wishes. There is plenty of evidence out there. The NY Times even had a running list. I am sorry that you do not think that Trump’s campaign was a giant racist and xenophobic appeal to the anxieties of white people in the United States.

    I will say this, I think if David Duke endorses your candidate and the readership of Stormfront sings your candidates praises, you should seriously reconsider voting for him, unless of course, you are a racist, too, because if you vote for Donald Trump, you are voting for the world that David Duke hopes for.

  92. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    No IL. I want to establish a fact with you. I am neutral to the outcome, here.Let’s do it, buddy. You gave us #1. How about it is my turn.? Let’s throw “make America great again”, into the list of 5. Is that ok? Give us number three and we will examine the list of 5 together later, ok?

    It is your turn. Go.

  93. Iron Lung
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

    “No IL. I want to establish a fact with you. I am neutral to the outcome, here.Let’s do it, buddy. You gave us #1. How about it is my turn.? Let’s throw “make America great again”, into the list of 5. Is that ok? Give us number three and we will examine the list of 5 together later, ok?

    It is your turn. Go.”

    lol

  94. Lynne
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

    I would say that Trump is complicated in terms of race. He clearly has made many racist statements about people of color (eg Time collected a bunch about Mexicans = http://time.com/4473972/donald-trump-mexico-meeting-insult/) but he also had clearly been courting African Americans recently with things like the pardon of Alice Marie Johnson. His campaign did include some people pretty well connected with white nationalist movements though, i.e. Steve Bannon. He regularly uses dog whistle statements that feed into the racial fears of white america. I don’t think it is all that far off base to say that he ran on a white nationalist platform especially in terms of his statements about immigration bans and southern border walls.

  95. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

    Bringing jobs to minority communities is what the President campaigned on. Cleaning up crime too, which is related. Black employment is at an all-time high which the President is fond of reminding us along with historic gains in Hispanic and female employment.

  96. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    Alveda “Fool for not thinking Trump is racist” King:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh_N3vAWed4&frags=pl%2Cwn

  97. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

    Sweet dreams!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0vY9d1QgKY&frags=pl%2Cwn

  98. Jean Henry
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 6:35 pm | Permalink

    FF demands facts but never introduces any to support his own assertions.

    So I’ll play (links will follow in order):
    1) Trump non-response to Charlottesville and his failure to do anything to pre-empt the threat of white supremacist movements as outlined by a DHS report before Charlottesville.
    2) His first speech as President declaring Mexican undocumented immigrants rapists and murderers and pledging to keep Americans safe. In reality undocumented immigrants commit fewer crimes than average Americans and the problems of M16 and other gangs is continually overstated to justify the border enforcement that disproportionately impacts Brown people b other immigrants.

    3) The ‘Muslim Travel Ban’ as Trump himself called it. While the new version (#3) passed muster in a conservative SCOTUS the earlier two versions, which Trump much preferred, were not constitutional because they unfairly categorized those impacted by religion and ethnicity. In fact the countries outlined have produced no domestic terrorists (though in some cases they have funded terrorist cells). Trump energized his campaign by relying on overstating the threat of Muslims in the US while indetstating the threat of home grown terrorists with extremist Christian, anti-abortion, militia (gun rights) and white supremacist beliefs.

    4) Trump ran by overstating the violence in inner cities and understating the level of violence in rural and conservative areas.

    5) Steve Bannon has been very clear that he is a White Nationalist who considers white straight men to be at risk in America today. He also has been clear in his belief that any racialized conflict solidifies Trumps base and that his strategy was to foment such divisiveness. He was Trump chief strategist and claimed recently that his cronies left in place at the WH have been actively dismantling the federal bureaucracy of all forms of protection for communities of color while at the same time maximizing hard power enforcement capacity to the extreme.

    First link: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/14/16144598/trump-white-terrorism

  99. Jean Henry
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

    2 should read presidential candidate

  100. Jean Henry
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

    Ff maybe it would help if you defined your understanding of what constitutes white supremacy…

    I can see you countering these examples as not explicit enough. That’s the kind of rhetoric you used in the past. So I think it would save us time if you accept or nit up front the idea that appeals to white supremacist thinking backed up by policy exacerbating inequity constitutes a white supremavist platform.

  101. Iron Lung 2
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

    The reality is that Mr. Flakes is more outraged that some insignificant local liberals are being mean to a stoner in Ypsi who reads conspiracy blogs than he is about having a President in office who ran on a platform of racism and xenophobia,

    or about racism at all, apparently.

  102. stupid hick
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

    Question for FF, why do you think Trump is so popular with white supremacists?

  103. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

    JH,

    We are looking for examples of actual language employed by Trump that supports IL’s assertion that it is “a fact that Trump ran on a platform of white supremacy”.

    It is a fact according to IL, so it should be easy to provide some evidence. He offered the “cleaning up cities” example. Not sure if that is a slam dunk. Really want to withhold judgment until IL provides a list of actual quotes, then we can look at context and evaluate. Shouldn’t be hard. He apparently already did the work because he raised his assertion up to a level of “fact”. He is just being shy with his knowledge, I guess.

  104. Jcp2
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 7:48 pm | Permalink

    Of course you don’t hear it. That’s why it’s called a dog whistle. It’s not directed towards you.

  105. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

    Trump did respond to the Charlottesville attack. He was correct to say people on both sides behaved horribly. It is also true there were militia members who helped anyone on either side who needed medical attention.

    It is true there are rapists and murderers who enter illegally from Mexico. If you stop the illegal entry then you prevent them from raping and murdering Americans and other immigrants here. He never said they all are. He said they send some bad people. It’s true.

    The travel ban is on countries who fail to provide required information on individuals to the US government. That’s good. If they don’t know or won’t tell who the person actually is then something is up.

    How can you overstate what is happening in a place like Chicago or how Detroit was in the 80’s? Trump ran on creating better conditions for blacks.

    Wikipedia says Bannon rejects the notion he is a white nationalist. I have not seen anything in evidence of that. Black Americans For A Better Future speech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXrfO89R78s&frags=pl%2Cwn

  106. Jean Henry
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

    FF apparently believes that white supremacy only exists in the most explicit terms, whereas, I believe that, like the patriarchy, white supremacy is a systemic and cultural problem in America that only manifests most obviously among white power enthusiass and nazis but which is so pervasive and internalized issue as to be evident in almost every facet of American life and in every political perspective, but most intensively in Trumpism.

    I’m glad I was pulled away and didn’t bother with the rest of the links.

    Mr Flakes is in total denial that he lives in a white supremacist country, that is luckily also a Democracy and soon enough, a minority majority country, so perspectives like his will be a remnant of the past in a generation or too, just like those who denied all the forms of bigotry

    Here is the only link you need FF: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/10/the-first-white-president-ta-nehisi-coates/537909/.

  107. Jean Henry
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

    I disagree Jcp. I think the dog whistle is directed at people like FF. I dont think he knows that his view of the world is constructed by white supremacist ideals. Even his idea of civility directed in only one way– towards those who call out racism and sexism.

    Dog whistles are evident to some and to others they respond subconsciously to the suggestion, cured in by their implicit biases.

  108. Jean Henry
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

    Ps Dog whistles work really well on the left as well. Among Dems they have the standard forms. Sometimes it sounds more prescriptive. A lot of times they use diminishment and worse, pity. Among radicals they become even more buried beneath layers of ideology, but there it still is, white and privileged folk self-centering in their activism, buying into the savior narrative and legitimizing their voices by positioning themselves as victims too. Oh and supporting candidates and positions so far to the left that they can not be realized and being willing to burn down any compromise solutions– aka being so distanced from the reality of policy impacts that they will sacrifice the good enough for the perfect… the perfect that is never or too late realized.

    Systemic cultural problems are perpetuated by all parts of society in their own way just as they are perpetuated by structural impediments to equity.

    FF If Il is a liar about white supremacy and Trump, then he has some very good and very well informed company.

    I think the accusation of liar, against so much expert validation, should require more factual back up– Don’t you, FF?

  109. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

    Jcp2,

    Which particular dog-whistles did I missing? Join in the effort if yo want. Our list of quotes is coming along slower than I was expecting….

  110. Jean Henry
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

    HW– Far be it from me to question the validity of a wikipedia bio page of a political figure, because those are always accurate a/f… but… Steve Bannon has been explicit in saying he uses white supremacists and appeals to them intentionally because of their power to destroy the GOP establishment from within. And similarly he believes that leftist populists and radical movements especially those that talk about racism and sexism will divide the left and make it vulnerable to attack. There is endless documentation of this white supremacist strategy. I dont know what’s in Bannon or Trump’s heart. I do know they dont why from using the rhetoric of white supremacy to energize the base and at least Bannon has said as much.

    https://www.thenation.com/article/why-steve-bannon-calls-white-supremacists-clowns-and-losers/

  111. Jean Henry
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

    FF– read Trump’s twitter feed. It is 50% dog whistles. Most of what he says is dog whistles. To ask for a list is an absurdity. You will simply argue from white supremacist thinking that you cant see it. More high school debate tactic circular logic.

    As HW said, it’s water, it’s water, it’s water– but you cant see it.

    More apt is the boiled frog analogy as I’m sure you have no intent to display your own bias so plainly.

  112. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 9:47 pm | Permalink

    5 good ones is not so absurd is it, JH?

    1) make cities clean

    2) make America great again

    3) ?

    4) ?

    5) ?

    Let’s do this now and we can evaluate after we get a top 5 best quotes which support IL’s fact.

    4)

  113. Jcp2
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

    When was America greater than it is now? Was it before reconstruction? Before women’s suffrage? Before the end of segregation? Before miscegenation was legal? I’m thinking of all the times before the recent now, and I’m pretty sure that the America that you are so nostalgic for wasn’t so great for a lot of people.

  114. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 10:18 pm | Permalink

    Bannon didn’t say anything racist that I saw or that he uses racists. Conflation by the author of his comments on Vanguard America and online people most of whom don’t have a racist philosophy at all.

  115. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 10:20 pm | Permalink

    So, correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like you think the list should be reordered to give maga top billing:

    1) maga
    2) make cities clean
    3) ?
    4) ?
    5) ?

    Thanks for the input. Any other juicy dog-whistle-quotes you want share so we can put up them up on the big board?

  116. Jean Henry
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 5:20 am | Permalink

    Your position is so ridiculous that it’s hard to respond to, FF. Campaign slogans aren’t going too be outright racist, but yes, MAGA, Build that wall etc etc are coded. Especially when backed up by historic outright racist stump soeeches. You do understand what xenophobia means right? It’s a form of bigotry. And when it’s applied disproportionately to people who are brown or black that’s racism.
    Why not simply list a set of policies that center the interests of white people?
    Then fold in all of the racist dog whistles.

    As is your reasoning would take the statement ‘We don’t like your type around here’ directed at a Black man, followed by a beating and removal from premesus and say, ‘well it’s not obviously racist because no racist language was used. After all the issue could be his hat or his shoes or the cooor of his eyes. You are using the absurdity of judging people by Skin tone to pretend that never happens. No matter how much evidence exists.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/01/15/opinion/leonhardt-trump-racist.html

  117. Jean Henry
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 5:49 am | Permalink

    MORE: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/every-moment-donald-trumps-long-complicated-history-race

  118. Jean Henry
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 5:59 am | Permalink

    “…the American discourse concerning racism remains largely about hurt feelings, rather than discriminatory policy: Some people said Obama acknowledging racism was racist, and also some people don’t like that Trump is called racist. This ostensibly neutral framing is centered around a white audience more concerned with being called racist than facing racial discrimination, and one that experiences racism as naughty words rather than as policies that affect whether and how people live their lives. ”

    “An era in which Americans are supposedly exhausted with political correctness is thus defined by the acute political sensitivities and persecution complexes of white voters who object if things they do and say are described as racist, even as the bodies pile up in the background.”

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/06/just-say-its-racist/561962/

  119. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 6:01 am | Permalink

    I was going to offer up “build the wall” as a possibility. Thanks Jean. I am going to leave out “etc etc” for now though. Let me know if this ok with you, ok IL?

    1) maga
    2) make cities clean
    3) build the wall
    4) ?
    5) ?

    This isn’t my position Jean. IL and I are establishing a fact together. It sounds like you think we should abandon this project.

    We are so close to 5 though. Can’t stop now.

  120. Jean Henry
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 6:56 am | Permalink

    FF did you not read the links? Racism is not slogans. It’s not just words. Was that PBS list not adequate for you? Do you really think slogans are racism? Or are you simply trying to undermine the very idea that racism exists by denying it’s evidence and reducing it to words.

    What I think FF is that denying systemic injury to a class of people is just about the most uncivil and immoral thing I can imagine. If that’s not what you are doing here, please explain what exactly you are trying to prove. Because abundant evidence of Trump’s racist language, racist policies and political reliance on coded language and dog whistles has been provided.

    You want a simplistic list that you can easily debunk. Again, you are corrupt without being charming. I’m becoming convinced that your self-professed inability to ‘get’ stuff is simply a front for being an asshole. IL was right. You’re not worth the time.

    https://verysmartbrothas.theroot.com/30-ways-white-people-say-black-people-without-actually-1827146564?utm_source=theroot_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

  121. Jean Henry
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 7:01 am | Permalink

    PS IL’s discomfort with terms like marginalized etc etc in the popular discourse, left right and center is validated by the list linked above.

  122. Jean Henry
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 7:10 am | Permalink

    Dec. 7, 2015: “Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what the hell is going on.”

    March 9, 2016: “I think Islam hates us … We can’t allow people coming into this country who have this hatred of the United States and of people that are not Muslim.”

    July 24, 2016: “People were so upset when I used the word Muslim. ‘Oh, you can’t use the word Muslim.’ … I’m talking territory instead of Muslim.”

    Dec. 21, 2016 (as president-elect): “You know my plans. All along, I’ve been proven to be right.”

    Jan. 27, 2017 (as president): Upon signing the first travel ban, entitled Protecting the Nation From Foreign Terrorist Entry Into the United States: “We all know what that means.”

    — all used in SCOTUS case against the Muslim…err… Travel ban. “We all know what that means.”

  123. Jean Henry
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 7:19 am | Permalink

    #5 America First

    Well, gosh, that doesn’t seem racist.

    “It should come as little surprise, then, that the Ku Klux Klan also adopted “America first” as a motto. In 1919 a Klan leader gave a Fourth of July speech declaring: “I am for America, first, last and all the time, and I don’t want any foreign element telling us what to do.” The fantasy of a US once populated solely by the racially pure Nordic “common man” was the Klan’s genesis myth as well, the prelapsarian past to which they intended to force the country to return – by violence if necessary.

    In January 1922, the Klan staged a parade in Alexandria, Louisiana, bearing two flaming red crosses and banners with slogans including “America First”, “100% American” and “White Supremacy”. That summer the Klan took out an advertisement in a Texas newspaper: “The Ku Klux Klan is the one and only organization composed absolutely and exclusively of ONE HUNDRED PER CENT AMERICANS who place AMERICA FIRST.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/apr/21/end-of-the-american-dream-the-dark-history-of-america-first

  124. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 7:21 am | Permalink

    JH,

    IL and I are making a list to prove Trump ran on a white supremacy platform. The list is coming together rather slowly but I think it is a worthwhile project. You seem to have a lot of good ideas. Please add to our list. To prove I am not being an asshole and to take the pressure off of finding the top five best Trump white supremacy platform communications, I propose we expand the list to ten. No pressure. Is this cool with you, IL?

    1) maga
    2) make cities clean
    3) build the wall
    4) ?
    5) ?
    6) ?
    7) ?
    8) ?
    9) ?
    10) ?

  125. Iron Lung
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 7:28 am | Permalink

    Mr. 420 Kushlord’s position does not surprise me.

    That Mr. Flakes can put complete sentences together would indicate that he would have no trouble dissecting Mr. Trump’s public statements, the nature of his campaign (which continues to this day) and the reasons for its success.

    Yet he does not, which is interesting. Perhaps Mr. Flakes only regards people who look like Aryan Nation members as racists. Perhaps he does not believe that racists can look like everyone else and hold positions of political power.

    Aside from his silly “game” I would like to know why he believes that the Trump campaign did not take advantage of the anxieties of white people in the US through racist and xenophobic rhetoric?

    Plenty of Trump’s predecessors have, in fact, used similar tactics to get elected. Why should Mr. Trump be such a strong exception, particularly given how clear his public statements compared to past candidates and politicians.

    Either the Mr. Flakes denies that racism exists and politicians use racial anxiety and xenophobia to get votes from certain demographics, or he accepts that it exists and just does not take it seriously.

    Both are troubling. I would implore the Mr. Flakes to do some study on the role of racism, xenophobia and white anxiety in American politics.

  126. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 7:30 am | Permalink

    1) maga
    2) make cities clean
    3) build the wall
    4) America first
    5) ?
    6) ?
    7) ?
    8) ?
    9) ?
    10) ?

    Is this list ok with you, so far, IL? I know you wanted to limit the list to only “make cities clean” but after hearing input from other posters I started to think it would be better to expand the list to really prove Trump ran on a platform of white supremacy. What do you think of our progress?

  127. Iron Lung
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    “Is this list ok with you, so far, IL? I know you wanted to limit the list to only “make cities clean” but after hearing input from other posters I started to think it would be better to expand the list to really prove Trump ran on a platform of white supremacy. What do you think of our progress?”

    Many people think that Mr. Trump is stupid. I do not. Though willfully ignorant on policy, basic civics and uninterested in the broader implications of his actions, he is very good as manipulating public statements to effect, i.e. he understands his audience, what they want to hear and how they will react.

    Thus, a “list” of statements taken out of context will insufficiently reflect the broader implications of his campaign. For example,

    ““I will be a president that turns our inner cities around. … The African-Americans. The inner cities. Devastating what’s happening to our inner cities.” ”

    has to be taken in the broader context of how he refers to African Americans and “inner cities” in general, and that he has the support of the most famous Klansman in the US, David Duke, and had the overwhelming endorsement of Stormfront.

    While I would like to hear Mr. Trump say the N word on TV (“shithole nations” came close) the greater issue is this, does the Mr. Flakes deny that Mr. Trump ran on a campaign of racism and xenophobia to stoke white anxiety or not?

  128. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 8:21 am | Permalink

    No, IL, I agree. Context matters. Like I said, we need to form the list then evaluate how and why each item communicated a white supremacy platform. You seem to have better instincts about this stuff, that is why I wanted to make sure you agree with the list the forum is forming for you. Are these items listed good examples of Trump’s white supremacy platform? And what other items belong on the list, in your opinion? Almost there….

  129. Iron Lung
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    I am sorry, I don’t think the complexities of racism as utilized in American political campaigns and particularly to the Trump can be reduced to a simple list of quotes taken out of a larger context.

  130. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 8:43 am | Permalink

    Bunch of bullshit. That’s why. If it can’t be put simply then it probably isn’t true.

  131. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 8:46 am | Permalink

    I agree IL. The list is and should be considered a preliminary step. The second step is to evaluate the items in context. I am working with you on this project because you have declared the trump white supremacy platform a fact. I just want to show how you got to “fact”. It seems like a useful project to me. You don’t like the project?

  132. Iron Lung
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    I find your “project” to be overly simplistic.

    I guess the question is, why do you believe that the Trump campaign was not based on a calculated appeal to the racist and xenophoblic anxieties of some white voters?

    You did vote for the man, did you not? That would seem an approval of the most egregious portions of that campaign.

  133. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    Every long trip that ends at a great destination starts with small steps, IL.

    I am so confused. You don’t like our project now? You say it is my project but it really isn’t. We are not doing this for me, we are doing it for your syllogisms. How will we explain your quitting this project to your dear syllogisms? They are going to feel so empty inside if we don’t see this through. What do you say? Do you not like the list so far? What should we change or add? I will follow your lead. We can’t quit. The White Supremacists want us to quit.

  134. Iron Lung
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 9:29 am | Permalink

    yawn

  135. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 9:41 am | Permalink

    Get some rest, friend, and we will fight white supremacy together after you have nap-time.

  136. Iron Lung
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 9:45 am | Permalink

    But you are not committed to the fight.

    You provide comfort for his supporters, thus you endorse white supremacist views, thus you are also a white supremacist.

    Possibly worse, actually.

  137. Jean Henry
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 9:48 am | Permalink

    FF– IL objected to your ‘project’ from the get go. The rest of us were suckered in to the idea that you might take anyone else’s point seriously ever.

    He never played and you’re an asshole. I’m happy to be civil if civility is what you offer– aka dismissal of any reasonable assessment of racism beyond straight up Ku Klux Klan mantra’s in American Culture. fuck I even showed you that America First WAS a Ku Klux Klan mantra…

    why are you ignoring those who actually are playing along FF?

  138. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    You’ve heard of Pig Latin, now meet Pig Logic.

  139. Jean Henry
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    **”I’m happy to be uncivil if

  140. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    You don’t have to explain it because it’s too complicated.

  141. Jean Henry
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    HW– lol

  142. Iron Lung
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 9:52 am | Permalink

    “You’ve heard of Pig Latin, now meet Pig Logic.”

    The 420 Siberian Kushlord is also a white supremacist.

  143. Jean Henry
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    FF– #4 was Trumps own tweet and repeated statement: ““Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States”

  144. Jean Henry
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 9:54 am | Permalink

    FF– Please reply to the first 5 before asking for more. I gave you lists of hundreds of examples of racism and racist code and racist policy. You have yet to defend seriously against a single one. Please put in the work you ask of others or go home with your head down.

  145. Iron Lung
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 9:57 am | Permalink

    Mr. Flakes does not take it seriously enough to respond.

    Through indifference, he endorses racist and xenophobic thought.

  146. Jean Henry
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    FF yu have employed every single avoidance strategy from addressing any of the posts above. Please begin to respond in thoughtful ways. PLENTY of material there.

    Some of us honored your request with thoughtful and informed replies. You are ignoring us to harass the person who said he wasn’t game for your bullshit because he’s clearly smarter than the rest of us.

    Show up or go home, FF.

    And please if you cant respond thoughtfully and in earnest, dont try to lecture any of us on civil discourse or racism ever again.

  147. Jean Henry
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    And don’t call any of us liars or bigots without evidence either.

  148. Jean Henry
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 10:01 am | Permalink

    Fuck you and your double standards, FF.
    I’m pissed at myself for replying at all.

    I could have done laundry and the dishes last night and this am instead. I own my own poor choices. Wont happen again, FF. You may be worse than HW. HW cant help his dementia. You are an apologist.

  149. Iron Lung
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 10:03 am | Permalink

    The Mr. Flakes is an apologist for white supremacists. We have long established that.

  150. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    Islam isn’t a race.

    Jean, I have exposed countless lies you have said. Usually you concede by dropping the point. You are a bigot because you classify human beings by their skin color as if that is their most important feature and apply different standards to the different colors. To you being white is to be inherently racist. At the same time you support the eugenics movement that inspired Hitler. Hitler loved the ideas of Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood they say.

  151. iRobert
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    I’m really offended by the term “white.” When someone calls me “white,” they are grouping me in with a lot of very different people from many different parts of Europe and the world. It’s offensive to group me in with all the inferior ones.

    What is the unthinking person’s definition of white anywhay. What percentage of a person’s genetics would need a line through one of the genetic groups which they consider “white?”

  152. iRobert
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 10:22 am | Permalink

    By the way, Mark is a sickly, pasty, white. That’s very different from the sort of reddish green I’ve become with my high blood pressure and constant nausea.

    I imagine Jean not being “white” so much as maybe a dingy grey, like she’s been enprisioned in a cave next to a coal burning plant.

  153. Iron Lung
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 10:23 am | Permalink

    “What percentage of a person’s genetics would need a line through one of the genetic groups which they consider “white?””

    Oh please, you are smarter than this.

    Racism has nothing to do with genetics. It is about the powerful vs. the powerless. There are caste systems in numerous cultural contexts that have even less of a genetic component than black/white racism.

    “Racism” is essentially about caste.

  154. Jean Henry
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 10:24 am | Permalink

    The definition of ‘white’ has changed over time and varies from country to country. 100 years ago Italians and Irish were considered non-white. It’s a social construct I Robert. You could spend your lifetime studying how the idea of whiteness was constructed by white people (aka people in power) and not come close to getting to all it’s evolution.

    This was a good book. You could start here: https://www.amazon.com/History-White-People-Irvin-Painter/dp/0393339742

  155. iRobert
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    What color does a person turn when they’ve been perpetually high on weeeed for years. That’s the color I assume HW has become.

    EOS is almost certainly China-doll white. He’s that fragile too.

  156. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    Well what do you mean when YOU say Whitey?

  157. iRobert
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    You’re right Iron Lung, I am smarter than that. Which is why I don’t use the word racism to describe classism and caste.

  158. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 10:32 am | Permalink

    I’m browner than all y’all right now so y’all need to check your white privilege.

  159. Jean Henry
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    “Civility is defined by the people in charge… So when someone like Donald Trump is in charge, it’s impossible to have a serious conversation about civility.Disenfranchised people, be definition, don’t get a say in what constitutes civility.” W Kamau Bell just now on the radio

  160. iRobert
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    Thanks for the reading suggestions, Jean, but I’ve seen where your reading has gotten you. I think I’ll take another route.

  161. Jean Henry
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 10:34 am | Permalink

    I Robert– racism is a subset of classism and caste and it has a very specific and real long history and manifestation.
    What possible interest could you have in denying the existence of racism in the Us or anywhere?

  162. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    Gimme yo amp and yo girl drum set while you at it.

  163. Iron Lung
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    It is unbelievable to me that residents of the United States would have such a poor understanding of racism and exclusion.

  164. Jean Henry
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    iRobert would not want to read anything that examined the evolution of the conception of whiteness because that would disrupt his belief that racism is not a thing and all social problems are about class and caste. You must have been a Bernie ‘no one knows what it’s like to live in a ghetto” Sander supporter, right?

  165. Iron Lung
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    “You’re right Iron Lung, I am smarter than that. Which is why I don’t use the word racism to describe classism and caste.”

    Fair, but in the US where so much of caste is associated with classical notions of black/white racism, it makes sense to use the term in common conversations.

    Nitpicking the term in the US without a commonly used alternative does a disservice to the victims of marginalization over all.

  166. iRobert
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    Your understanding of these things has been on display for everyone to read here. It isn’t terribly sophisticated or evolved in any way. Your use of the word racism is absurd. You don’t even know what you mean when you are writing these things. Now you’re going to pretend you are in some position of intellectual superiority. Please. I think we’ve all read enough to know exactly what the situation is.

    You spend a huge amount of time and effort attempting to argue with a super high guy, and he often gets the best of the arguments. So please.

  167. Jean Henry
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 10:43 am | Permalink

    I mis-spoke. Racism is not always a subset of classism and caste. Sometimes it is. But one can be a very wealthy Black person, even the most powerful man in the world, and still be subject to racism. In fact Black Americans with power get some pretty intense racism directed their way.

    So no, racism is not a subset but it’s own thing. One that often subjects its victims to the negative impacts of classism and caste as well.

  168. iRobert
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 10:47 am | Permalink

    Your weak attempts to characterize me only demonstrate how poor your understand is of everything.

    What sort of idiot comes to the conclusion that I don’t think racism is real, or that it isn’t prevelant. You should read people’s actual words, rather than listening to the voices in your head.

    No, I voted for Hillary. I knew what the purpose behind the Sanders candidacy, because I’ve actually worked in presidential politics. I haven’t just read about it and concluded I’ve got it all figured out, as you obviously believe.

  169. iRobert
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 10:53 am | Permalink

    You two are the sort of flakes that have rendered the Democratic Party to opposition status. I’m actually kind of glad. You and the Trunpsters deserve each other. It’s just natural for you to be at each other’s throats. You both have the same problems.

  170. iRobert
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    I leave the “debate” with you to the high guy. He manages pretty well actually. Maybe the two of you should think about finding a good pot source for yourselves.

  171. iRobert
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    I dont know about the rest of these freaks, HW, but when I say “Whitey,” I’m talking about a good ice cream parkour in Iowa.

  172. iRobert
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 11:16 am | Permalink

    “ice cream parlor”

    Thanks autocorrect!

  173. Jean Henry
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    “I am smarter than that. Which is why I don’t use the word racism to describe classism and caste.” was what you said iRObert in the context of a discussion of whiteness, however arch.

    I am trying very hard to understand your point iR if it was not that racism was a substitute term for classism and caste.

    Please spin out your thinking there. I apologize for my (ass)options but you know that people will cast assumptions into any vacuum made by too little information.

  174. Jean Henry
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 11:45 am | Permalink

    No comment from HW on the N Korea post. JHe must be doing ‘research.’

    PS iR I am Irish and so was pasty white as a young person and occasionally rose cheeked. but I am aging into a liver spotted, over weathered perpetual tan with watery blue eyes. Cheap Irish skin is what may Grandmother called it. No red nose though. I avoided that fate. My health is pretty damn good for someone with a chronic health issues. My doc always tells me I’m very healthy considering… What does any of this have to do with race?

    I associate colorist with caste but I’d like to look into that idea further.

  175. Jean Henry
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    colorism**

  176. Lynne
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    I had an unusual childhood in that although I grew up around mostly black people, they were mostly upper middle class or elite black people. I witnessed first hand how economic class and race are not the same thing and that being in a high economic class does not offer the protection against racism that many seem to think it does.

    On that note, I always get a little bit of joy seeing one of my friends from the old neighborhood post pictures on facebook from the Detroit Golf Club which when I was a kid refused to allow black members but has since changed their policy.

  177. Iron Lung
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    “Maybe the two of you should think about finding a good pot source for yourselves.”

    phuuuuuckkkkkk wooooooah so haaaaaiii 420wheresthedogdidileavethebabyintheoven#potwhitegenocide

  178. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    Sorry I did not get back to you fast enough, JH.

    I did not catch #4 from you. My bad. The fourth quote on the big board should be “ban Muslim people from entering the country”? Is that cool IL?

    1) maga
    2) make cities clean
    3) build the wall
    4) ban muslim entry
    5) America first

    I wish IL would let us know if these are the best 5 in his opinion…. I am willing to move forward with you anyway JH assuming IL doesn’t care….

    I am not ignoring you or avoiding you, I mean, did you notice that 3/5 of the items on the big board are quotes you offered?I have been trying to establish a fact with IL. Sounds like he is out though. My thought was if we can establish “the fact” it will be great because then IL can spin off a shit ton of actually valid arguments. Is that not a good thing? Are you weirdly hostile to this project because you still do not believe in logic? I don’t get it.

  179. Frosted Flakes
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    *valid and sound

  180. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

    “I dont know about the rest of these freaks, HW, but when I say “Whitey,” I’m talking about a good ice cream parkour in Iowa.”

    Question directed to Iron Derp. He says out of all the races ‘Whitey’ is the most racist.

  181. iRobert
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

    As it was explained to me, when a person uses the word “whitey” they aren’t taking about the color of a person’s skin or their genetic makeup. Apparently, they’re referring to a person’s mindset or mentality. So it’s just like when a klansman uses the “N” word. He’s talking about a mindset or mentality. That’s apparently what everybody is upset about. It’s other people’s mentalities, and they just use references to color for some yet unexplained reason. Maybe it’s used to confused dumb guys like me. I don’t understand all the sophisticated subtleties these geniuses do. Unfortunately for the Democratic Party, neither do the vast majority of Americans. So I guess we’ll all just continue to suffer without their brilliant leadership.

  182. iRobert
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

    Jean does her best to help us dumb people find the right reading material which could bring us all to her level of enlightenment.

    I’m impressed with all these concepts these people have grasped that Martin Luther King himself never seemed to grasp. Had he had more time, I’m sure his thinking would have evolved to the level of a Iron Lung or maybe even a Jean Henry.

    But, in his simple way, with the little time he had to think about racism and such, we should be happy he was able to come as far as he did. Now it’s time to put his meager concepts aside for the more evolved concepts at which our brilliant contemporaries have arrived.

  183. Iron Lung 2
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    I find it odd that anyone at all would feel the need to criticize one for despising racism and xenophobia.

    I do not feel my position on racism, xenophobia or my concern that a Presidential candidate used them to attain the highest office in the nation aberrant or extreme in the least.

    Honestly, in 2016, I found it frightening how easy it was for Trump to gain the nomination, and horrifying that he would actually get the job. It appears that Americans are no better than the people who allowed any number of historical horrors to happen.

    Clearly, others do not share my view.

  184. Iron Lung 2
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    “He says out of all the races ‘Whitey’ is the most racist.”

    I never said that.

  185. Washington Post
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    “The federal debt is headed for the highest levels since World War II, CBO says”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/26/the-federal-debt-is-headed-for-the-highest-levels-since-world-war-ii-cbo-says/

  186. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    “As for “race baiting,” in fact, Michigan is one of the most racist places I’ve ever lived and whiteys in Ann Arbor/Ypsi are among some of the worst offenders.”

  187. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

    Cannabinoids are promising in staving off dementia. Coincidence that weeed haters have no idea what they say from day to day?

  188. Jean Henry
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    iRobert– Would you like the progress of Black intellectual thought to have stopped with MLK Jr’s assassination. Are you aware of how his thinking (and frustrations) evolved towards the end? Do you believe he would have stayed where he was in his thinking? Why are you disavowing the work of Black intellectuals post MLK Jr. And how much of MLK Jr’s later works have you read?

    While MLK Jr did not use the term white supremacy in this way he describes how it is played to in politics well:

    “The Republican Party geared its appeal and program to racism, reaction, and extremism…On the urgent issue of civil rights, Senator Goldwater represents a philosophy that is morally indefensible and socially suicidal. While not himself a racist, Mr. Goldwater articulates a philosophy which gives aid and comfort to the racist. His candidacy and philosophy would serve as an umbrella under which extremists of all stripes would stand. In the light of these facts and because of my love for America, I have no alternative but to urge every Negro and white person of goodwill to vote against Mr. Goldwater and to withdraw support from any Republican candidate that does not publicly disassociate himself from Senator Goldwater and his philosophy.”

  189. Jean Henry
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

    “among some of the worst offenders’ is not the same as saying “the worst. ”

    HW if white people as a class are not the most racist in your mind, please tell us who is.

  190. Jean Henry
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    FF– Your insistence that your approach relies on ‘logic’ and/or will more likely produce a ‘logical’ result (v all the well reasoned, substantiated links I offered as counter) is precisely why I think it’s useful to question anyone who appeals to ‘logic’ to validate their perspective while dismissing another wholesale. What you are presenting as logical is so circumscribed as to be prescriptive of the outcome you desire via its very structure. Anything so limited can present as ‘logical’ when in fact it’s not.

    A dog has four legs. A cat has four legs, ergo a dog is a cat.
    QED

    or not.

    You are singularly full of shit. I had forgotten. Good to know.

    Never do the many forces of MM.com so align as when confronted with discussion of racism in America. The thrust of belief always ends up being, essentially, well sure racism exists, but just waaaaay over there. It’s a resistance self-distancing and minimization from people with a vested interest in the same.

    Oh, I misspoke, you guys respond to sexism the same way.

    And so you have proved my point that racism, like sexism, is a systemic and cultural and structural problem and we are all subject to it. Those who are victims of one or the other will evidence internalized bias/self-hatred. This is not the same thing as racism or sexism, but it is a symptom of it. People who want to self distance and minimize either of these issues will frequently say that those who point up evidence of it are creating the problem. Or imagining it.

    They are the problem.

    Again.

    This is very old news. It would be too boring to mention if it weren’t so fucking persistent.

  191. Jean Henry
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

    For iRobert’s consideration:
    “I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice […]”

  192. iRobert
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

    That’s what I was saying, Jean. I’m glad you agree rather than let modesty get the best of you.

    We can put MLK’s writings away. We now have the genius of folks like yourself who have developed the notions to a higher level.

  193. iRobert
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 9:05 pm | Permalink

    “Would you like the progress of Black intellectual thought to have stopped with MLK Jr’s assassination.”
    – Jean Henry

    You’re making the same exact point I was making. MLK is only significant in a historical sense now. He didn’t have the tine to work out issues of race to the higher level you have. His ideas and strategies now seem quaint and simple next to the sophisticated ones you have learned from more advanced, and contemporary minds.

  194. iRobert
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

    “Why are you disavowing the work of Black intellectuals post MLK Jr.(?)”. – Jean Henry

    Are there particular ones which you’d most recommend?

  195. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 2:02 am | Permalink

    “among some of the worst offenders’ is not the same as saying “the worst. ”
    HW if white people as a class are not the most racist in your mind, please tell us who is.

    He said whiteys in Ann Arbor and Ypsi are among some of the worst offenders. Presumably to Iron Derp whiteys in other areas of Michigan are some of the other worst.

  196. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 2:06 am | Permalink

    I don’t know how to properly quantify racism by class. I know you don’t think it is possible to be racist towards white people so I don’t know if we can have a meaningful discussion about racism. We don’t agree on the meaning of the term.

  197. Jean Henry
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 4:55 am | Permalink

    iRobert– “Are there particular ones which you’d most recommend?” Those who I linked above. Many more too. This is a great era for Black American thought and artistic expression. Say what you will about Black Power movements (or just don’t…), it’s undeniable that they produce brilliant art.

    This is also good: https://www.amazon.com/New-Jim-Crow-Incarceration-Colorblindness/dp/1595586431

  198. Jean Henry
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 4:59 am | Permalink

    HW– I understand we differ on race. I asked you a specific question. I accepted your premise, for the question, that it’s possible to be racist towards white people. so… Once more…

    If White people are not the worst racists in America, who are?

  199. Jean Henry
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 5:04 am | Permalink

    iRobert– On race I am not the moderate, you are. Most people would not characterize me as a moderate period. since I want dramatic change too. We disagree on how to get there. And perhaps on the value of the democratic process, no matter how burdensome. We dont disagree on desired outcomes.

    I know that may be more complexity than you can handle. It’s so convenient to label people and make assumptions about them.

    PS None of my thoughts about race are my own. I dont take the lead in that area; I follow. I suggest you might want to expand your horizons a bit beyond 1968.

  200. Jean Henry
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 5:13 am | Permalink

    iRobert– There’s a lot of discussion lately in Black intellectual and cultural circles of the use of an edited and sanitized version of MLK by White liberals to try to quell the Black power movement. In particular , they are asking White people not to quote MLK anymore and not to refer to him in order to shut down voices of color.
    I broke that dictum consciously. And I think the conscious use of MLK references, informed by a fuller understanding of his thinking and larger cultural context, is a reasonable answer to their critique. Others will differ.

  201. iRobert
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    I’m sure the brilliant intellectual minds of today will forgive you for bringing up MLK’s obsolete words, since you did it simply for the purpose of illustration. It’s not like you’ve simplified your understanding down to his modest level. I’m so relieved that the greater intellects of today realize MLK is just a tool used to keep people of color down.

    We are all so blessed to have you here, serving as the vessel for all this incredible new wisdom. It’s remarkable that you, as a colorless person of white privilege, would be permitted to speak on such important issues to people of color. But it’s clear to see you are a special case, and are highly evolved spiritually and in your ethnic-sensitivities.

    I’m not sure you consider me a moderate. I’m with Iron Lung in thinking that all “white” people should kill themselves and make room for the less racist folk. I just can’t quite figure out how to define “white” since we are all such a mix of so many genetic lines now. How do you define “white?”

  202. iRobert
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 6:58 am | Permalink

    I guess no person of color would lower themself to post here on Mark’s blog. I have always wondered why the black community avoids him like the plague. Fortunately, they trust you enough to allow you to speak on their behalf here. You must feel very honored to have that trust.

  203. Iron Lung 2
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 7:41 am | Permalink

    “I guess no person of color would lower themself to post here on Mark’s blog. I have always wondered why the black community avoids him like the plague. ”

    Should people be required to announce their ethnic identity or sex or anything else when posting here? How do you know that there are no “persons of color” or people from the “black community” here?

    Perhaps there are and you simply don’t know it.

  204. Iron Lung 2
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    “I’m with Iron Lung in thinking that all “white” people should kill themselves and make room for the less racist folk.”

    The goal is to replace all white people with BLM protesters and pregnant Central American asylum seekers.

  205. Iron Lung 2
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 7:53 am | Permalink

    “If White people are not the worst racists in America, who are?”

    Can a persons level of racism be quantified? Who cares if “white people are the worst racists” or if “black people can be racist or not?”

    Those are arguments and discussions for the stupid. Caste systems are universally deplorable in every context.

  206. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 8:20 am | Permalink

    Why do you contradict yourself?

  207. Iron Lung 2
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 8:28 am | Permalink

    Obama’s grand plan of replacing white people with BLM protesters and pregnant Honduran domestic violence survivors needs to be realized.

    #speedupwhitegenocide 420 obama kush where’s the dog marijuana==gangviolence bongloadsofheritage

  208. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 8:41 am | Permalink

    That’s good you say things like that so everyone can see how deranged you are.

  209. Jean Henry
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 8:48 am | Permalink

    IL– I was trying to have a discussion with the stupid wherein he, so rhetorically cornered, might articulate more fully his theories about racism. You just gave him an out. But whatevs, I guess. I’m just an idiot.

    Or maybe, as iRobert suggests, I’m just full of myself and over-read on issues of race in America. I mean why add any complexity to a few self-serving, out-of context pull quotes from MLK jr? Really, there is no reason to inquire further. We all know all we need to know about racism.

    For the record, while I may call people (including myself) assholes with regularity, I don’t call people idiots on principle.

    Except our president and HW, but in those cases, it’s warranted. Special exceptions.

  210. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    It’s quite an honor to be thought of in the same sphere as POTUS. Thank you.

  211. Jean Henry
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    iRobert– There is no shortage of challenging Black voices available for you to read elsewhere. There are no new issues being brought up here. I think you might be pleased at the diversity of viewpoints presented and the intense internal discussions of issues of race and American culture out there in the larger blogosphere.

    I know it seems crazy to people here that others might bother to consider the issues and impacts of racial constructs and racism beyond saying they are bad… But I’m actually interested in dismantling those constructs and the systems that support them, so I’m down for complexity and uncertainty.

    And no, by talking about the existence of those constructs, I am not preserving them, much less creating them. Gaslighting on the existence of systemic, structural and cultural racism is a very old con. It doesn’t play anymore.

  212. Jean Henry
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 8:59 am | Permalink

    HW– I have often compared you to him. This is not the first time. You two are well suited to bromance.

  213. Iron Lung 2
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 9:06 am | Permalink

    “That’s good you say things like that so everyone can see how deranged you are.”

    #whitegenocidenow Democrats abortion kill white babies stop the reproduction now Obama army 420 kush smoke out white house heritagenothatephuuuuckkkk robert e leeloved weeeeed marijuana is evilwheresthebongcurescancercyanidecure

  214. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    Yes, quite an honor to be compared to the man who will go down as the greatest President ever.

  215. Jean Henry
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    HW– No one would ever accuse you of derangement, naturally.

    I really thought you might enjoy this new fully baked IL character. I gave you too much credit for any sense of humor at all, I guess.

  216. Jean Henry
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    HW– Now that I have pleased you, would you mind telling us what group you feel is ‘most racist’ in America, since you’ve made clear you don’t believe it’s white people, even though they invented the very idea of whiteness for their own benefit.

  217. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 9:42 am | Permalink

    I don’t really think of genetic groups as more or less racist. All peoples are afflicted by it. Not all people are though.

  218. Jean Henry
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    That’s a reasonable answer from your perspective HW

    So who determines what is racist or not? What are the criteria to determine the presence of racist thinking?

  219. Jean Henry
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    Quick jog back to the subject of White Supremacy on the rise today: https://www.chronicle.com/article/White-Supremacist-Propaganda/243786

  220. Jean Henry
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    HW– Just to be clear: One’s race is culturally determined. There is no ‘genetic grouping’ by race. That’s scientific fact not theory.

  221. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 9:54 am | Permalink

    I told you my definition. It’s the simple and true definition. You muddy it up with extra shit that doesn’t belong.

  222. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    What do you mean? Never heard of genetic markers?

  223. Jean Henry
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_genetics

    Yes I have heard of genetic markers. There’s no genetic marker for race. Race is made up.

  224. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 10:00 am | Permalink

    Then why are you asking which race is the most racist???

  225. Iron lung
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 10:03 am | Permalink

    The 420 kushlord has his “how to identify a jew poster on his wall”

    #whitegenocidepbamaarmy phuuuuuck

    Note the white genocide cant happen until we eliminate all genetic markers of whiteness

  226. Iron lung
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 10:10 am | Permalink

    We will set up testing stations to insure that no baby is born with a genetic marker for whiteness.

    Genes will be replaced through donations from BLM protestors and pregnant Hondyran asylum seekers.

    #speedthewhitegenocide

  227. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    Right, good.

  228. Iron lung
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 10:19 am | Permalink

    All whiteys will be sterilized to eliminatw racism because the are the most racist.

    #blackobamakush420 wheresthedog marijuanacausesgangviolence stoptheinsanity blmtakeoverofpennsylvania phuuuuuuck

  229. Iron lung
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    Might it be the case that anti racist is a code word for anti white?

    I think that is what the 420 Liberian kushlord is getting at.

    White420genocidealllivesmatter blm genes now!!

  230. Jean Henry
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 10:34 am | Permalink

    HW– Race is a socially constructed category. Just because it has no biological basis does not mean it isn’t relevant to people’s lives or their opportunities or their perspectives.

    I asked which race was more racist because, as I have said, you noted that you believed IL said White pope are the. most racist (he didn’t0 and thought that absurd. I took that to imply you believe white people are not the most racist.

    FWIW, I do believe White Americans having created the category of whiteness to their benefit and changed the definition of the same over time, have the most to gain (or preserve) from racism and so are the most likely to rely on it, believe in it, etc.

    What you are saying, I guess, is that all races are equally subject to it. What investment would Black people or other Pic have in racism? Truly curious as to what benefit you imagine they would derive.

  231. Jean Henry
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 10:37 am | Permalink

    Soory for autocorrect word spasms as always. I guess Is would take the time to proofread. gah.

  232. Jean Henry
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 10:37 am | Permalink

    I could**
    ha!

  233. iRobert
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    Iron Lung, you haven’t noticed that the black community avoids Mark at all costs? You can more of less count on everybody posting here being colorless people.

    No black person acts and speaks like Jean. She is in her own little world. I’m sure they all appreciate the hard work she does for them though. She leaves MLK in the dust.

  234. Iron lung
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 10:50 am | Permalink

    Who is “the black community?”

    This implies a monolithic group. Who determines membership?

  235. Jean Henry
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    iRobert– Are you unconcerned with issues of race. Do you think only people of color would benefit from efforts to identify and eliminate racism? What about my personal interesting racism (which is lifelong having grown up in a VERY racist community) bothers you so. Is it that I have opinions about race? Do you think I only engage in discourse on the subject of race here on MM.com. Because I can assure you I learn very little here on the subject except some lessons in its persistence and pervasiveness.

    I’m truly confused about why you are offended by my broaching the subject.

    I too have criticized Mark for the lack of diversity of voices here (which IS apparent), but I’m not sure there’s much to be done about it and it is his blog. It would be nice if there were more local bloggers of color for sure. Maybe there are and I dont know about it?

  236. Iron lung
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 11:08 am | Permalink

    When someone says they are anti racist, really what they saying is that they are anti white, i yhink the 420 kush siberia lord would agree.

  237. EOS
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 11:47 am | Permalink

    There are genetic markers for race. The color of one’s skin is not a cultural construct. Use facts and reasoning, not emotion.

    http://med.stanford.edu/tanglab/publications/PDFs/GeneticStructureSelfIdentifiedRaceEthnicityAndConfoundingInCase-ControlAssociationStudies.pdf

  238. Iron Lung 2
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 12:01 pm | Permalink

    “The color of one’s skin is not a cultural construct.”

    lol

    The color of one’s skin just doesn’t matter. There are light skinned people all over the world, even in Africa and dark skinned people all over the world even outside of Africa. Yet, Pacific Islanders, South Indians, Southeast Asians, North Africans and Somalis and others don’t fit in to the racist calculus you guys are so into….

    because they were never enslaved. It never mattered until Europeans started enslaving West Africans.

    But then EOS is so stupidly Biblical that she probably believes in the curse of ham.

  239. EOS
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    Phenotypic differences have a genetic basis. Don’t be such an AH.

  240. EOS
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

    There is more diversity within each racial group than between each racial group. However, the racial groups originated on different continents and were isolated from each other for the most part and random mutations created genetic markers that identify isolated populations.

  241. Jean Henry
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    Oh this is getting rich. Please do go on EOS…

  242. EOS
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    Read the link. Study genetics.

  243. Jean Henry
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    Facts and reasoning, not emotion…

    Oh my, oh my, oh my…. So damn rich.

  244. Jean Henry
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    Hey EOS– I googled that study. It’s most famous as an example of scientific activism around biological determinism.

    Cool.

    http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0002716215586558

  245. Jean Henry
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0002716215587687?etoc=&

    couldn’t open this one. I assume it comes to the same conclusion re that study, but if someone capable of properly digesting this stuff can open it and wants to give the run down, that would be good to know.

  246. EOS
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    The genetic markers are microsatellite markers on the telomeres. They are in non-coding regions. They don’t express genes. Has nothing whatsoever to do with biological determinism. You really don’t have a clue what you are talking about.

  247. Iron Lung 2
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

    When EOS wants to feel good about being a bigot, she wants to use genetics, for anything else, it is useless.

    lol

  248. Iron Lung 2
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

    “Study genetics.”

    – EOS

    super lol

  249. Jean Henry
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/race-is-a-social-construct-scientists-argue/

  250. Jean Henry
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

    “The genetic markers are microsatellite markers on the telomeres. They are in non-coding regions. They don’t express genes. ” So, what you are saying is that one can determine broadly someone’s ethnic background via their genome and so make a decent guess as to the race with which they identify, but those markers have no meaningful expression biologically. It’s meaningless really in terms of discussion of race as we understand it culturally.

    If I have that right, why was this information of use in a discussion of race? Do these minuscule areas of differentiation, but not any marked difference, really matter here? Ot is this another red herring that you threw out to divert us from a subject that causes you discomfort?

    I never claimed that my points are perfect and inviolable. That’s HW.

  251. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

    You a lie.

  252. Eel
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    EOS earned his genetics degree at Jimmy the Greek University.

  253. Jean Henry
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 6:08 pm | Permalink

    No HW. Tthere are still no clear markers for race– ir this is the marker or series of markers for a White person, a Black person, a Latino Person etc. There are markers that show ethnicity not race.
    As I understand it.

  254. Jean Henry
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

    So much for civility:
    “When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. “

  255. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

    I was referring to what you claimed I said.

    It’s ironic in the extreme that you would post that. Latest Q:

    Today, as Patriots, we celebrate our Independence.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PSUr9rMVtc
    Q

  256. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

    I said genetic group, not race for a reason. Obviously there are countless different types of peoples within the broadly defined races. There are those different types though that people can recognize. Not sure what the argument is or why you would ask about what race is the most racist.

  257. Sad
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

    Trump is the opposite of racist. He even instructed Universties not to consider race when doing admissions. He doesn’t see race, he sees people, individuals, who he judges only by the content of their character.

  258. Sad
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

    But he probably doesn’t know much about history either. So there is that.

  259. Jean Henry
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

    Just to back up my much earlier point about white liberals/radicals being party to racism too, and doubling up with a dose of inverse outcomes from good intentions, there’s this. ( The Little Red Schoolhouse has been known since I was a kid as one of the most progressive schools in NYC. It was all kids of artists and writers then):
    https://www.theroot.com/private-school-for-rich-kids-announces-plans-to-segrega-1827289709

  260. Jean Henry
    Posted July 4, 2018 at 9:21 pm | Permalink

    For HW: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/07/05/some-trump-supporters-thought-npr-tweeted-propaganda-it-was-the-declaration-of-independence

  261. Jean Henry
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 7:50 am | Permalink

    For FF’s review re White Supremacy and Trump’s policies:
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/07/donald-trump-is-leading-the-republican-charge-to-preserve-a-shrinking-white-majority.html

  262. Jean Henry
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 7:53 am | Permalink

    White Supremacy is the new Gerrymandering:

    “Even if you blocked all immigration to the United States and removed millions of naturalized citizens, existing trends make demographic change inevitable. At some point in the not-distant future, a majority of Americans will be of black, Hispanic, and Asian origin. But there’s a difference between a nation’s population and its electorate—its share of people who can exercise the full rights and privileges of citizenship. Republicans realize this, and are trying—at every level of government—to reverse-engineer a white electorate large enough to secure their own power, and along with it, the existing hierarchy of class and race.”

  263. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 8:01 am | Permalink

    That’s idiotic. How are Dems (and Repubs like Bush and McCain) not trying to engineer a flood of illegal immigrants, transforming them and their children into citizens? Oh, if you are against that then you are a white supremacist! Your reason is flimsy and blamefully hateful at the same time.

  264. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    “Oh, if you are against that then you are a white supremacist!”

    Not saying that we don’t need an immigration policy that lets whoever wants to come here come and work and eventually become citizens, but yeah, if you are screaming about “illegals” and talking of grand conspiracies to create voters (for what exactly? most immigrants live in Democratic urban areas anyway), then yeah, you are probably a white supremacist.

    I doubt the 420 Siberian Kushlord and his ilk would have a problem with floods of undocumented immigrants from Norway.

  265. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 8:30 am | Permalink

    “Trump is the opposite of racist. He even instructed Universties not to consider race when doing admissions. He doesn’t see race, he sees people, individuals, who he judges only by the content of their character.”

    lol

    You really have not been paying attention. Trump likely doesn’t care (does it matter if he does?) but he knows how to play to his racist base.

  266. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 8:34 am | Permalink

    I’m not a supremacist of any kind. Apparently you a brown supremacist though.

  267. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 8:43 am | Permalink

    Screaming about illegals and grand conspiracies. Jeezus you are dumb. Not only do your politicians do all this shit you act like those who oppose it are doing something wrong. You are an anti-American extremist. Worse, you attack regular people about it. Borders do not equal racism. That’s so fucking dumb, dude.

  268. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 9:12 am | Permalink

    “’I’m not a supremacist of any kind. Apparently you a brown supremacist though.”

    lol

    “Anti-racist is a code word for anti-white.”

  269. Jean Henry
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    HW– Had you actually read the article you would not be talking about illegal immigrants but about the work that Trump and co are doing to create legal paths to undo the citizenship of naturalized citizens.

    This is another piece of the systemic plan to preserve white dominance over electoral politics in the US in face of am increasingly diverse population.

    What amazes me is that the GOP and Trump make so little effort to find their substantial common ground with communities of color in order to win them over. They would rather put in place as many avenues as possible to prevent them from participating electorally. Or just kicking them out of the country altogether.

    I dont know how anyone can deny that Trump et al are striving to preserve White Christian power by oppressing Black and Brown and non-Chirtian people. It’s all right there on the surface. No conpiracies needed.

  270. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 9:33 am | Permalink

    “I dont know how anyone can deny that Trump et al are striving to preserve White Christian power by oppressing Black and Brown and non-Chirtian people. It’s all right there on the surface. No conpiracies needed.”

    On this, the readership of Stormfront is actually somewhat respectable, though still deplorable trash. It’s the people like the 420 Siberian Kushlord and EOS who either feel uncomfortable admitting it publicly fearing a backlash, or are just too stupid to see it happening.

    All one has to do is look to history to see how white supremacists whitewash they disgusting views to see where the current crop of bigots get their playbook from.

  271. Jean Henry
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 9:41 am | Permalink

    Dont forget FF and even iRobert… There are many many people, even those who hate Trump, who would rather skip right past any discussion of this white supremacy stuff and jump right to a post-racial society without putting in any of the necessary work. I mean since MLK Jr and Civil Rights were passed, what is left to discuss about race. We should just be over all that.

  272. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 9:48 am | Permalink

    Well, there are always the people who are true white supremacists, and those who simply don’t mind enabling them.

    “Racists are people, too! Let’s just give them a chance.”

  273. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 10:11 am | Permalink

    You are the racist and I hate racists.

  274. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    Anti racist is just a code word for anti-white, don’t you agree Mr 420 Siberian Kushlord?

  275. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    “HW– Had you actually read the article you would not be talking about illegal immigrants but about the work that Trump and co are doing to create legal paths to undo the citizenship of naturalized citizens.”

    Oh, yeah – how many again? 20 million?! You are out of your mind with that shit.

  276. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    Right wing politicians have been trying to push that for years, perhaps the Mr. 420 Siberian Kushlord has not been paying attention.

  277. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    To you if you don’t hate whites you are racist. To me if you discriminate based on genetics no matter who it is it is racist.

  278. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    “To you if you don’t hate whites you are racist. To me if you discriminate based on genetics no matter who it is it is racist.”

    Anti-racist is a codeword for anti-white. Do you agree or not?

  279. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 10:19 am | Permalink

    You should be able to correctly infer my answer to that by what I already said. We have different definitions of racism/anti-racism.

  280. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 10:21 am | Permalink

    “To me if you discriminate based on genetics no matter who it is it is racist.”

    lol

    But obviously, discriminating based on anything else is ok, even it ends up discriminating based on genetics some of the time.

    lol

  281. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    There you go – constantly devolving. That doesn’t even make sense. It’s a disgusting habit. In fact you are guilty of classist behavior. Don’t you try to shame me for my presumed poverty? You do everything you accuse me of that I don’t do.

  282. Jean Henry
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 10:35 am | Permalink

    IL as classist is super rich.

    HW Race is not genetics. Its social construct. Why do you keep insisting there is any genetic code for race? There is none.

    Because you cant accept this widely accepted and scientifically established reality, you can not understand IL’s point.

  283. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 10:37 am | Permalink

    “In fact you are guilty of classist behavior. Don’t you try to shame me for my presumed poverty?”

    lol

  284. Jean Henry
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    HW– If you had paid any attention at all to what IL says when not provoking you, you would know that he has substantial education/experience in science, statistics and bias across cultures/ethnicities and he was poor growing up.

    Who are you arguing with and why? What kind of conceit is required to even try?

  285. Jean Henry
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    PS HW– Racism and bigotry are not one and the same.

  286. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 10:46 am | Permalink

    I think I hate poor people almost as much as I hate white people. I only love extremely wealthy pregnant Honduran asylum seekers and BLM protesters.

  287. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 10:51 am | Permalink

    Yeah, bullshit. The less convoluted definition is the better one as usual.

    I know about IL. The world is full of educated idiots. Do you educate yourself is the important thing.

    What do you mean who am I arguing with? Is your dementia that advanced? It’s self defense against people like you and mr. derpus there. You know that, you wannabe gaslighter moron.

  288. Jean Henry
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 10:57 am | Permalink

    Racism as biology is the ‘less convoluted’ definition.
    So, ‘less convoluted’ is just another ay of saying willfully ignorant?

  289. Jean Henry
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    If you post from self-defense (aka we are pushing you to reply), then, if we stop posting, will you stop replying??

    Because. that would be awesome.

  290. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    There you go – spread the hate around. You anti-border people are seriously deranged. You are hooked on a program to promote total ignorance by attacking everything reasonable and good with 100% backwards lies and you don’t even know it. That is the scary thing. You follow the cues of the actual EVIL criminals running this shitshow. Guess what? Times about up for all that shit. I told you I am the Slayer of Unreason. Now the Unreasonable have become the Totally Fucking Demented. You look like absolute crazy extremist idiots to most people I guarantee. All the horrible shit you stand for is going to get flushed just like your girl Hillary.

  291. Jean Henry
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    ” I am the Slayer of Unreason. Now the Unreasonable have become the Totally Fucking Demented. You look like absolute crazy extremist idiots to most people I guarantee. All the horrible shit you stand for is going to get flushed just like your girl Hillary.”

    Holy shit. That’s hysterical.

    Quick Ff and Sad and iRobert, jump in to defend civility from my assault on it.

  292. iRobert
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 11:08 am | Permalink

    I don’t defend civility from your assault on it, Jean. I figured civility was asking for it.

  293. Iron lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    “I old you I am the Slayer of Unreason. Now the Unreasonable have become the Totally Fucking Demented. You look like absolute crazy extremist idiots to most people I guarantee. All the horrible shit you stand for is going to get flushed just like your girl Hillary.”

    There arent enough lols for how stupid this is.

  294. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    Racism as biology

    Where did I say that? You kept asking me some stupid question about who is the most racist race then you changed direction to talk about what you think racism is with an irrelevant point. It’s dementia. I’m serious. I bet you will end up with it really bad. If you discriminate based on genetics you practice racism. It’s universal or it’s bullshit. You can’t have one category of genetics it is acceptable to discriminate against and still be anti-racist.

  295. Iron lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 11:11 am | Permalink

    I goad the 420 siberian indicalord for gems like that.

    Lol

  296. Iron lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 11:13 am | Permalink

    Anti racist is a code word for anti white, dont you agree mr kushlord?

  297. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 11:16 am | Permalink

    I say exactly what I want. I’m the one trolling you. I get you to act like a crack monkey and look horrrible to anyone unfortunate enough to stumble onto this cesspool – without even trying.

  298. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    Press the crack lever some more, jeez.

  299. Lynne
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    Although I don’t share IL’s views on marijuana, I have to wonder how high HW must be to become as divorced from reality as he so often is. I don’t think HW is making IL look bad at all but HW is giving weight to IL’s argument that excessive marijuana use harms cognitive function.

  300. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    Lynne: another extremist. Oh, we need to bring in all refugees from everywhere and pay them to come and live here no matter the cost. You are high on sniffing glue or some shit.

  301. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 11:58 am | Permalink

    How did he get from this:

    “Although I don’t share IL’s views on marijuana, I have to wonder how high HW must be to become as divorced from reality as he so often is. I don’t think HW is making IL look bad at all but HW is giving weight to IL’s argument that excessive marijuana use harms cognitive function.”

    to this:

    “Oh, we need to bring in all refugees from everywhere and pay them to come and live here no matter the cost.”

    That dude is way too high, he sees things that we can’t due to his third eye jester bong hat.

  302. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 11:58 am | Permalink

    “Anti racist is a code word for anti white, dont you agree mr kushlord?”

    He never answered my question!

  303. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

    It’s not in my definition of anti-racism. I do think you personally are anti-white in the guise of anti-racism though. That should be clear.

  304. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

    I got from that to that because I have the ability to remember things that happened MONTHS ago. It’s amazing I know, but if you smoke weeed your brain doesn’t turn into a rock and you can remember what someone said.

  305. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    “It’s not in my definition of anti-racism. ”

    lol

    enlighten us

  306. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

    “I got from that to that because I have the ability to remember things that happened MONTHS ago”

    Phuuuuuuck dude, I can remember ANYTHING woooooooahhhh

  307. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    Just read my posts. I have talked about my views on racism plenty. Anti means against, Mr. Top-Flight Education so just think of what goes against my definition of racism to figure out what my definition of anti-racist is.

  308. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    No, seriously. You don’t even know what YOU say from day to day, let alone what other people do. You’re like “I never said that.” Then I pull it up. Then you are like “………”

  309. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

    But isn’t being anti-racist the same as being anti-white?

    I mean, that’s what you think, right?

  310. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

    “Just read my posts.”

    lol

  311. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

    “I never said that.”

    I never said “white people are the most racist.”

    I might have said that whiteys in Ann Arbor/Ypsi are the worst offenders when it comes to coming up with new and creative ways of excluding black people, yes, but that’s not equivalent to “white people are the most racist.”

  312. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

    Oh sorry, you said

    “white people are the most racist among all the races” which is definitely not equivalent to talking about structural racism in Ann Arbor/Ypsilanti.

    Sorry, Mr. 420 Liberian Klansman

  313. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

    See, you think of racism as “ways to exclude black people.” You don’t think of it universally. Saying “whitey” is racist in itself. You don’t think so because you have a modified, non-universal idea of racism which in my view is inherently…racist.

  314. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

    “Saying “whitey” is racist in itself.”

    Being anti-racist (or pro-diversity) is a code word for being anti-whitey.

    Right?

  315. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

    You said whiteys in Ann Arbor/Ypsi are among the most racist you have seen in this most racist state you have ever lived in. Who are the ones whiteys in this area are among in Michigan? What are your racism rankings?

  316. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

    Whiteys are the real victims.

    For every black kid who gets into a university under a race based admission, a sad whitey child has to remain poor and uneducated.

  317. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

    There you go.

  318. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    “You said whiteys in Ann Arbor/Ypsi are among the most racist you have seen in this most racist state you have ever lived in. ”

    No, I think I said that (among whiteys in all towns) whiteys in the Ann Arbor/Ypsi area are among the worst offenders in the US when it comes to structural racism.

    I am not sure I mentioned the state of Michigan, though it is possible that it could be true that racial segregation and exclusion are among the nations worst.

  319. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

    “There you go.”

    Ah, ok, so you agree. Whiteys are the victims. All whiteys would be much flush with riches if there were no diversity programs. Efforts to ameliorate racisms worst effects (i.e. anti-racism) are anti-whitey.

    So that being anti-racism is being anti-whitey.

  320. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

    I found my least favorite breakfast cereal:

    https://i0.wp.com/peopleoflancaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/whiteyscereal.png

  321. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

    I mean there you go with your logic. It’s racism in the name of anti-racism. Now you are just mocking the idea of racism against whites. It looks really bad to all but the handful of derpenoids on here who think like you.

  322. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 1:08 pm | Permalink

    “Now you are just mocking the idea of racism against whites.”

    By who? lol

    Last I checked, there were no structural impediments to white success.

  323. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

    “Now you are just mocking the idea of racism against whites.”

    Like all whitey men in the US, the 420 Siberian Kushlord would have untold riches if not for college diversity programs and those black kids on the street who made fun of him for being stoned all the time.

    Couple that with those pesky feminists and it is no wonder the Mr. 420$$$$$ Kushlord tokes up as much as he does.

    RACISM!!

    lol

  324. Jean Henry
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

    “Anti-immigration sentiment fueled Donald Trump’s shocking primary victory and seemed to have won him some crucial votes in critical 2016 swing states. But now that he’s in office, public views of immigration are soaring to new heights. A new Pew poll released last week, for example, finds that, for the first time on record, more Americans want to see legal immigration levels increased rather than decreased.”

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/7/5/17527734/trump-immigration-poll

    Trump had to employ that M-16 and other White Supremacist narratives because he is losing the crowd. There is no weaker argument for action than an appeal to fear. I’m not saying it’s not often effective in the short term, but in the long term it withers unless the foretold disasters prove to be. Trump had no positive vision of immigration reform but the return of manufacturing jobs. It worked but he has failed to produce anything but a net loss in manufacturing jobs with his policies.

    All anti-Trumpiosts need to keep telling the real stories of immigrants and their contribution to our economy and culture until this thing is settled and we are ready as a nation to turn over the congress and seriously pursue real immigration reform.

    HW won’t like it one bit.

  325. Jean
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    Your breakfast cereal appear to have been developed in my home territory IL.
    I am not surprised.

  326. Jean Henry
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

    HW’s argument is the equivalent of that All Lives Matter bullshit. No one is saying, when they declare that Black Lives Matter that Black Lives Matter More. They are saying that Black lives are systemically threatened daily in ways that other lives are not. There is no point in saying All Lives Matter when other lives are not threatened in the same way.

    Unless HW can demonstrate that White people’s lives and well being are actively threatened by the existing system, then his principled and logical-sounding position amounts to denial of the problem by flattening/false equivalence or whatever you want to call it.

    HW’s universal principle of racism is simply denial via sins of omission. In this case it’s denial of the entire long racist and white supremacist history of the USA. It’s also denial of the imperative set forth in our declaration of Independence to fix this shit once and for all.

    HW makes me more sure we need to seriously start talking about reparations. Fuck UBI. Let’s get a few things straight first. That would be one hell of an economic stimulus package.

  327. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

    “HW’s argument is the equivalent of that All Lives Matter bullshit. ”

    I’m sure that when BLM was in full force, he had an “All Lives Matter” sticker on his jester bong.

  328. Jean Henry
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    BLM is still in full force. They just aren’t ‘news’ anymore, but they are growing in size, action and influence. The Antifa movement is tied in. And, at least in Michigan, where I pay most attention, Antifa has been incredibly effective lately.

  329. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

    You say racism = structural impediments to success and there are no universal structural impediments to success. There are only structural impediments for minorities. I say it’s discrimination based on race. How can we have a meaningful conversation if you can’t entertain the premise? I get what you are saying and I’m shredding it. You don’t get what I’m saying so your “heckling” sucks. Haven’t you seen what usually happens to hecklers? They get fucked up. They fuck themselves up, which you have with all this racist shit you push.

  330. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    Antifa has been getting its’ ass kicked in Portland incredibly effectively is more like it. In slow motion! I love it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4VSlmRyoFQ&frags=pl%2Cwn

  331. Iron lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

    Whiteys are the only victims. King Trump will do aay with race based admissions and save the whiteys.

  332. Iron lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

    “Antifa has been getting its’ ass kicked in Portland incredibly effectively is more like it. In slow motion! I love it.”

    Good! The next Unite the Right event should go off without a hitch!

    You will not replace us! Yay!

  333. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 2:14 pm | Permalink

    Telling that the Mr. 420 Kushlord, EOS and Mr. Flakes will not go after white supremacists in the same way they will go after Antifa or BLM.

    I wonder why that could be? Hmmmmmm

  334. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

    There you go calling people white supremacists again. It’s like a disease you have. You have to do it because it is your only rationale.

  335. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

    “There you go calling people white supremacists again. It’s like a disease you have. You have to do it because it is your only rationale.”

    I am just asking questions. It is interesting to me that the right wingers on this blog do not seem bothered that the “Unite the Right” event happened at all.

    It’s like……. an endorsement.

    But I don’t know, who knows? Maybe they were secretly more repulsed by white supremacists than people fighting white supremacy. Anything is possible.

  336. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

    I was clear that I see that event as a setup. The organizer and the historically co-opted white supremacy group have credibility issues. I don’t like Neo-Nazis or racists of any kind. If you can’t rub those lil brain cells together hard enough to imagine something as diabolically clever as agent provocateurs, well…too bad for you I guess. It must be like living at the bottom of a well being you. Hardly ANY light gets in.

  337. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 2:44 pm | Permalink

    I thought we were talking about antifa getting lit up the other day. If you swing weapons at people and throw explosives and shit then don’t be surprised when you get your bitch ass beat.

  338. Iron Lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 2:44 pm | Permalink

    “I was clear that I see that event as a setup. The organizer and the historically co-opted white supremacy group have credibility issues. I don’t like Neo-Nazis or racists of any kind.”

    lol

    except when you vote

    The Unite the Right guys were paid plants, crisis actors, if you will. It was a set up.

    lol lol lol

  339. Jean
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

    “Antifa has been getting its’ ass kicked in Portland incredibly effectively is more like it. In slow motion! I love it.”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4VSlmRyoFQ&frags=pl%2Cwn

    There you go FF, IRobert, SAD. Go watch that video.

    HW LOVES IT!

    He loves to see anti-fascist get beat up by White Supremacists, but he’s no White Supremacist.

    He believes that when we say structural impediments exist for people of color that we are saying there are no non-racist structural impediments.

    Why would he say that?

    Why would he seek to deny that structural impediments to POC exist by saying that other forms of structural impediments exist?

    What exactly are you defending with your calls for civility and your frustration with any conversation about racial inequity that moves beyond the era of civil rights legislation?

    More to the point, if anyone is worthy of bullying, wouldn’t it be HW? Do you still believe he’s not committed to white supremacy as a set of policy changes and a cultural imperative?

  340. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 2:53 pm | Permalink

    It’s a fact the organizer was an Obamanoid right up until that point. It’s also a fact that that white supremacy group was taken over. We went over this a long time ago but you couldn’t wrap your head around such an elaborate situation.

  341. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

    They aren’t anti-fascist. They are just scumbags with no respect for life.

  342. Jean Henry
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

    HW has a double standard( again. ) He likes simple non-convuluted explanation of racism, but when it comes to disassociating himself and the president from white supremacy, he favors
    elaborate situations.’

  343. Jean Henry
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    “They are just scumbags with no respect for life.” You just said you love to watch people get beat up.

  344. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    Weapon-swinging scumbags, absolutely.

  345. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

    Yes, it’s diabolical isn’t it? Who could imagine they could use agent provocateurs? Where are all the supposed white supremacists in the Trump era? They’re fizzling out. There was some little ruckus in Lansing with that Bush buddy Spencer guy and that is about all I have heard from the neo-nazi crowd.

  346. Jean Henry
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    https://www.splcenter.org/news/2018/02/21/year-hate-trump-buoyed-white-supremacists-2017-sparking-backlash-among-black-nationalist

  347. Iron lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    Lol

  348. Jean Henry
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

    HW has plenty of friends out there. They hate Nazi’s and White supremacists, but they also think anyone organized to oppose those groups is a racist. Oh and White people are the only victims of anything ever. At least anything that matters.
    Nothing white supremacist about that line of thinking. https://www.mediamatters.org/video/2018/06/01/tucker-carlson-says-starbucks-anti-bias-training-racist-attack-white-people/220358

  349. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

    It is not fascist to love the USA.

  350. Jean Henry
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

    “It is not fascist to love the USA.”
    BEST.
    EVER.

    IL put in the hard work, but I landed the whopper.

  351. Iron lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

    “Why cant we have white history month?”

  352. Iron lung
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

    This thread has had some real gems from the 420 mongolian indicalord.

  353. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    Problem for you is you sound crazy as shit to everyone but each other.

  354. Jean Henry
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

    I think I’m going to string a selection of HW’s replies together and then find an open mic somewhere and do a reading.

    Do open mics happen any more or does one just grab the mic uncivilly.

    Maybe we can read a selection from the MM parade float next year.

  355. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    Make sure you put in all the things you said.

  356. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    You people are devolving fast. Your whole rationale is Trump is a white supremacist (despite no evidence, just broad opinions) therefore his supporters are too therefore any behavior towards them is justified. You’re not going to win shit with an attitude like that. It’s just dumb and destructive. Only a handful are buying it.

  357. Jean Henry
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

    I have never suggested that all Trump supporters are white supremacist. I said almost the opposite. (ie ‘not all’) But that does not change the fact the Trump ran on a white supremacist platform and strategy and that there are still many Trump supporters, like yourself, who repeat white supremacist ideology without acknowledging it. I dint know what’s in your heart, IL, but I know what you care about and what you deride and that tells me you believe deeply in White Nationalist principles.

    I’m waiting to hear something from you that would make me think otherwise.

  358. Jean Henry
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    Oh I mixed up IL and HW. Time to get outside…

  359. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    It’s not a fact it’s your opinion. That’s so dumb. It’s not going anywhere I promise you. There is only so much energy a lie can pick up when so many people are learning the truth.

  360. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

    I have no idea why you think all that wacky shit about me. All you have is I support Trump blah blah blah. My parents put their freedom and safety on the line for civil rights and I live up to their ideals. They would be horrified to see their movement devolved to your mockery of it.

  361. Jean Henry
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    Your parents must be super proud of you HW.

  362. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    I’m sure they would be since I live like them with good intentions towards everyone and helping when I can.

  363. Jean Henry
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

    PS my mom marched for civil rights as well. She’s bat shit crazy but she marched. Lots of people did. Most White folk were not putting their lives on the line to advocate for civil rights–unless they went South, in which case, more power to them. Joining a march is just joining the party.

  364. Jean Henry
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    HW– The way you talk about your parents, it’s no wonder they reared a child who would become the Slayer of Unreason. It sounds just like a comic book super hero origin story.

  365. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

    If you say so.

  366. Jean Henry
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

    I didn’t tell the tale; or say that I bought it; I just identified the mythological archetype.

  367. Jean Henry
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

    HW I know your self-concept is that you’re a kind hearted decent and informed fellow who is being done wrong by us. But you came here seeking that. And my self-concept is much the same, without the martyr complex most days. No one is the same with their comrades as they are with their opposers. You are especially egregious in your conceit and insults. I know you cant see it. I know you can only see how it comes back at you. That’s all cool. thats super human. your relentless personal assault on people who disagree with you is not. (I tone match; not apologizing for that.)
    You are an unworthy opponent but this is a turf battle you will never win. Because you care too too much. And we’re just having a bit of fun.

  368. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

    You started this. I was extremely nice to you until I decided to stop taking your abuse.

  369. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

    I came here wanting to talk about ideas with people in my area. You thought it was a good idea to attack me. Now you are being exposed for being crazy as shit after trying to make me look like that.

  370. Jean Henry
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

    Ok. If that’s how you see it. Remember you thought you were going to enlighten us with your superior knowledge. If I went over to one of the forums that espoused your political perspective with that kind of attitude, how do you think it would go for me? Do you think people would view it as ‘talking about ideas?’

    You came in here thinking you were going to upend our little world, and nothing you said surprised or was even knew to us. And then when we got a bit deeper into your theories, I thought you were possibly psychotic and maybe brilliant to have developed such complex, developed and wide ranging a conspiracy theory. And then while you were on hiatus I found QAnon. And I realized you are just another damned fool wasting your time on the internet sucking up the paranoia. Not an original idea in your head. And supporting a conspiracy that doesn’t attack power but re-enforces and concentrates the power of a megalomaniac tyrant. It’s really very sad to waste all that mental energy and not even go up against the man. It’
    s all really sad HW when I think about it. So I try not to. You’re a damn fool. And the fact that you think most people agree with you here is nothing short of comical. It’s alright, we’re all fools most of the time. The biggest fools just don’t know it.

  371. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 5, 2018 at 11:16 pm | Permalink

    All I said is Hillary Clinton is way worse than Trump. Everything followed from that. If you can’t deal with a statement like that then go cry yourself to sleep.

  372. Jean Henry
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 6:29 am | Permalink

    No tears. No tears.

  373. Iron Lung
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 7:30 am | Permalink

    “All I said is Hillary Clinton is way worse than Trump. ”

    lol

    Clinton has no power…. so who cares? Either way, the statement implies that Trump is also “bad” so at least we are making progress.

  374. Iron Lung
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 7:32 am | Permalink

    “I came here wanting to talk about ideas with people in my area. You thought it was a good idea to attack me. ”

    I can only speak for myself, but it was just simply entertaining to make fun of the 420 Mongolian Kushlord, high unquestioning priest of King Trump.

    Wooooooaaaaahhhh phuuuuckkkk I’m like the smartest guy with a jester booonnnng KushKushCBdedible run THC inmy face phuuuuck

  375. Iron Lung
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 7:33 am | Permalink

    “I’m sure they would be since I live like them with good intentions towards everyone and helping when I can.”

    Except when he votes, and then it is just “whites only.”

  376. iRobert
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 8:05 am | Permalink

    I’ve been crying continuously since I started reading the comment section on this blog. Thousands of former markmaynard.com readers have been. We’ve been packed into airplane hangers repurposed as refugee centers, waiting. Rescue workers have set up big jumbotrons where we can follow developments on this blog live. I occasionally inquire with one of the rescue workers as to when we may all be able to return to the blog, but I can’t hear their responses over all the sobbing and wailing. So many here are inconsolable.

    I’ve always liked how focused Republicans are on hypotheticals. Whenever their goons are the ones in charge, they spend all their time talking about how much worse things would be if Democrats were in charge. Then, when some Democrat holds some particular office, they go on and on about how a Republican would be doing so much better if only they were in charge. They never like to talk about what is going on here and now, in this reality…you know, the one we’re all actually living in,…you know, at this moment.

    I’m a big fan of science fiction and parallel universes, and all that. So I always enjoy that Republicans never bother with what the situation is in this reality. It’s way more fun to always be peering through their inter-dimensional portal into a parallel universe where all the roles are reversed. It’s certainly always way less depressing.

    It’s also cool how everything that goes well when they are not in charge, is just a delayed benefit from when they were. And everything that goes wrong while they’re in office is the attributable to the last Democrat who was in office, or the next one who hasn’t even taken office yet. For example, the terrorist attacks of 9-11 were Bill Clinton’s fault, though he was long gone from office. Then, the bank crisis and economic collapse of 2008 was Obama’s fault, even though he wasn’t yet president, and would t be sworn in for several months. But that’s how extraordinary the imagination is of the Republicans, and how intense their inability to take responsibility is. I really do like the alternate reality science-fictiony feel of everything GOP.

  377. Iron Lung
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 8:09 am | Permalink

    “It’s also cool how everything that goes well when they are not in charge, is just a delayed benefit from when they were. ‘

    Trump was taking credit for just about everything over the last 8 years during his first weeks in office.

  378. Jean Henry
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    Another win for white supremacy: https://apnews.com/38334c4d061e493fb108bd975b5a1a5d

    “Some of the service members say they were not told why they were being discharged. Others who pressed for answers said the Army informed them they’d been labeled as security risks because they have relatives abroad or because the Defense Department had not completed background checks on them.”

  379. Jean Henry
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    On another note, I find this hero’s journey narrative that HW spins fascinating. My son is very into the same kind of thinking. I think many men were as boys. Maybe all that girl power stuff is the new version for women. I’m wondering how many men hold onto those narratives as they get to middle age though? Seems bizarre.

    Maybe I’d be a more functional person if I had such a compelling narrative when I was young. I was just trying to become free and live a life that made sense. There wasn’t much room for ideas of heroism.

  380. Iron Lung
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 8:17 am | Permalink

    Clearly, those foreigners were terrorists. We need only white men born on American soil who only speak American English.

    It was good enough for World War II, it is good enough now. Imagine if Trump eliminated the barriers to serving he experienced by being excluded due to bone spurs, he could have been a true hero.

  381. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 9:08 am | Permalink

    Notice how you change the subject every time it goes bad for you. You want to act like I came in being so offensive to the good liberals here. That is on you if you want to be offended by someone voting for Trump.

    Hillary Clinton has tried to get Trump impeached which all of you are hoping for so I don’t think you can say she has no power. She HAD a shitload of it and committed serious crimes in our name so I don’t see how anyone thinks they should never have to hear of her again. She will be punished along with the others so you are going to have to hear all about it and find out just how very wrong you have been.

  382. Iron Lung
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 9:20 am | Permalink

    “Hillary Clinton has tried to get Trump impeached which all of you are hoping for so I don’t think you can say she has no power. ”

    lol

    How, exactly? Given that she is not in the House or Senate and since both are Republican controlled, the odds of having her political opinion that Trump should be impeached becoming a reality are….. let me see… ZERO.

    Clinton no longer matters unless you are in Qanon/mens rights/alex jones/fox news land, in which case it just keeps y’all distracted and occupied, kind of like a Disney movie in a kids play room in a doctor’s office.

    “She will be punished along with the others ”

    So what? lol

  383. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    She pushed the lie.

  384. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    She pushed the lie.

  385. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    She pushed the lie.

  386. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    She pushed the lie.

  387. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    She pushed the lie.

  388. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    Damn, that comment had so much truth in so few words it had to replicate itself several times.

  389. Iron Lung
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 9:26 am | Permalink

    “She pushed the lie.”

    So then all private citizens who “push the lie” should be jailed.

    That sounds a lot like fascism.

    Thanks for revealing what you are.

    lol

  390. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 9:28 am | Permalink

    So what you ask? She represents the cabal. It signifies everything in our world changing for the better. You will see and be happy I was correct.

  391. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 9:29 am | Permalink

    She knows it’s a lie though. Most of you are just dumb as shit and actually believe it.

  392. Iron Lung
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    “She represents the cabal. ”

    lol

    What the fuck does that mean?

    “Opponents of the great leader Donald Trump”?

    Yep, fascism.

  393. Iron Lung
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 9:31 am | Permalink

    “She knows it’s a lie though. Most of you are just dumb as shit and actually believe it.”

    lol

  394. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 9:31 am | Permalink

    You have no knowledge or wisdom.

  395. Iron Lung
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    “You have no knowledge or wisdom.”

    lol

    About what? Grand conspiracies found on reddit groups by pro-fascist misogynists?

    lol

  396. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    No, about reality. You’ll see.

  397. Iron Lung
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 9:36 am | Permalink

    “No, about reality. You’ll see.”

    Phuuuuuuck dude, just gotta wait til the next episode… get haaaaaaiii woooooahhh jester bong where’s the baby yo the dog is dead suuuucks

  398. Lynne
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 9:46 am | Permalink

    It still cracks me up that guys like HW are so threatened by powerful women. Such weakness of character! Better get used to it though.

  399. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 9:47 am | Permalink

    Right

  400. Iron Lung
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    He is protected by his magic bong with +1 damage against dumb bitches.

  401. Iron Lung
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    I personally can’t wait until white men are legally no longer allowed to work. The country will be far better off being run by pregnant Honduran asylum seekers and BLM protesters.

    This will be the realization of Obama and Hillary Clinton’s grand plan for the United States.

  402. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 11:36 am | Permalink

    Learn how to play the game. How can you survive if you don’t understand the rules?

  403. Iron Lung
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 11:38 am | Permalink

    “Learn how to play the game. How can you survive if you don’t understand the rules?”

    lol

    #whitegenocidenowobamakush420

  404. Iron Lung
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    My favorite painting right now, except that Judith is not a pregnant Honduran asylum seeker:

    https://www.thewrap.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Black2.png

  405. Lynne
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

    I love it. Modern Judith! I am of course a huge fan of Gentileschi’s treatment of the subject. Artemisia to be clear.

  406. Lynne
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

    this one is my favorite but the one at the DIA is nice too

    https://goo.gl/images/F9bA2i

  407. Iron Lung
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

    I like this one because she dressed up for the occasion and put on a fancy hat.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Judith_mit_dem_Haupt_des_Holofernes.jpg/220px-Judith_mit_dem_Haupt_des_Holofernes.jpg

  408. Jean Henry
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

    I was going to dress as Judith for Women’s History Month party but was told it wasn’t positive enough. Then I suggested Medusa who was deemed not historical. Had I known Judith wore a fancy hat, I would have gone for it. Maybe for Halloween.

    But look what happened to Kathy Griffin…

    My daughter loved the DIA Judith Painting as a kid. That explains a few things I guess.

    Maybe Trumps next lover won’t just try to expose him…

  409. Jean Henry
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    Oh! I know. We’ll recreate the Judith murder scene for MM’s Independence Day float.

  410. Iron Lung
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

    While I am running code, I am reading about these Qanon idiots.

    It is like a whole thread of impish, stoned, pubescent, racist, misogynistic fools like our own Mr. 420 Kushlord on parade.

    https://archive.is/gBEGw

    Complete with instructions on how to “redpill the normies” wich the Liberian Slumlord appears to follow to the letter. Anthropologically interesting, but incredble to know that these fools are out there, probably updating your version of Microsoft Office.

    “One of /cbts/’s primary missions is memes (per Q) to redpill the normies. We want to coax them in the right direction. Open minds gradually without bludgeoning or traumatizing. Tactics will differ, depending on what they already know, and their openness to unsettling new info. Aim for slight to moderate cognitive dissonance. Remember that too much too fast can turn normies away. Hammer on current news topics…

    Avoid: 1) Aliens, 2) “Energy” fields, 3) Hollow earth, 4) Metaphysics, 5) Religions pantheons, 6) Moloch / Satan / Saturn, 7) Chemtrails, 8) Crop circles, 9) Detoxing / Cleansing Pineal Gland, 10) Chakras, 11) Reptiloids because normies will take one look at any of those and dismiss you as a nutcase.

    Instead focus on:

    1) Elites are corrupt, and force newly elevated elites to do perverse things in order to show their loyalty. If they have dirt on their new cronies, they can use that dirt to keep them loyal. The dirt can be sex, fraud, corruption, or any kind of perversion or depravity.
    2) Powerful elites have access to the best medical technology, and they think that harvesting blood and other things from children can help extend their lifespans, or improve their health.
    3) Elites have everything, and where do people who have everything get their thrills? Some of them delve into taboo and perverse activity. What do they do when they know they have huge power and influence, and think nobody can stop them?
    4) The CIA is corrupt and has seriously overstepped its power. The CIA funds itself using criminal activity, such as the drug trade, and sex trafficking – yes, even of children!”

  411. Iron Lung
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

    “#Adrenochrome is harvested from the pineal gland which is located in the brain.
    The younger the child is, & how much adrenaline and torture they experience before death determines the potency of the adrenochrome in their blood. They drink children’s blood to get high. #QAnon”

    Seriously, whoever made this shit up must be laughing his or her ass off that so many fools would believe this stuff.

  412. Iron Lung
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    lol

    “I just learned the horrible, impossible truth about a drug called “adrenochrome.”
    Please help.

    Someone close to me may be connected to the disappearance and murder of countless children; most of them refugees or otherwise disadvantaged – all untraceable. All forgettable. And now, all dead.

    He told me about a drug called adrenochrome that could produce a high beyond any other. And unlike those other drugs, there are no ill effects. Quite the contrary; there are substantial benefits from consuming it: greater health, increased vivacity, and a host of other, smaller effects. Combine those with an intense sense of euphoria and you have a substantial demand.

    The issue is this: it is a derivative of the chemicals produced by the human body when it is under intense, immeasurable fear.

    My former friend, who confessed his involvement during a fleeting crisis of conscience, insisted this was true and cited a number of dubious-looking studies and fake news sites. But then there were the photos.

    He didn’t allow me to make copies for fear of implicating himself personally, but he’d been to a “farm,” he called it, in one of the Baltic states. There were photos of countless people, all seemingly under the age of 15. They were naked and chained to tables and walls and floors in a windowless room the size of a football stadium. I couldn’t estimate how many there were.

    As he scrolled through the photographs and I debated killing him, I saw masked men hovering over the victims and torturing them. As they were being tortured, their blood was being drained into containers.

    Other photos showed the production facilities – enormous rooms that looked like chemistry labs where the blood was filtered and the compounds were extracted.

    The worst, though, were the mass graves.

    Men stood around them and laughed as they unloaded truckloads of carcasses into pits. They used pitchforks to gather up anyone who had been left behind.

    I asked him why he was allowed to take these pictures. He said no one would believe it was happening. And he’s been right.

    Rumors about facilities like this have been around for decades. Journalists have tried to report on it, only to be laughed out of their editors’ offices. One journalist, a Swede, came the closest to bringing it into the mainstream. He died, along with his family, in a hideous house fire.

    Listen to me: the pictures I saw were not faked. They were not staged. They were, without any doubt, real.

    And there’s one more thing. One more picture. Believe it if you want, I don’t care. I need to get this off my chest.

    There was an image of adrenochrome users.

    I don’t know what I expected. Well, I guess I do: strung out, gaunt, miserable-looking addicts with despair and desperation in their eyes. It’s what we’ve all associated with drug users thanks to heroin and crack and whatnot.

    This was different.

    The image was of a lavish conference room in a skyscraper. Where, I could not determine. Syringes of the drug were sitting on gilded plates on a thick table of polished wood.

    I recognized the faces sitting around that table.

    World leaders. Entertainers. Religious icons. All grinning. All happy. All ready for their injection.

    Seeing those familiar faces was the initial shock. It wasn’t the final one.

    On the far side of the table, almost too small to be seen but still unmistakable, was an iconic head of state. A recent one. He was laughing as he reached for his syringe, but there was something unusual about his hand. It wasn’t its normal, small, pink self. It was green.

    It was webbed.

    It was clawed.

    It was reptilian.”

  413. Iron Lung
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

    “Alleged pedophile Tom Sizemore is promoting his adrenochrome film.

    Someone alleging (see my tweet) that Harry and Obama’s interview was actually recorded in sept. for BBC radio 4. And they had an image of a bbc radio 4 post. Look into this and let me know.

    Look into the performers who performed during hillary’s campaign rallies. (So she could actually get an audience to show up) Including beyonce, gaga, and others.

    Look into the OWL symbology that was always present. There’s an owl on Epsteins private pedophile island on that weird mysterious Temple too. right next to the golden dome on top.

    32 voted against a sex trafficking bill in the senate. How many of them are engaged in acts with children? How many are blackmailed?

    Hillary Booed at speaking event? Is this an old video? She’s been MIA this would show she is NOT arrested but remember Obama used a 3 year old christmas picture. Anyone recognize this video as an older video?
    http://truthfeednews.com/watch-hillary-clinton-gets-booed-at-speaking-event/

    my social media and twitter are below, please follow a lot of things I post on twitter may not make it into the videos but are very relevant (I haven’t learned how to insert pics into video yet, so you miss out on a lot of images and pictures really are worth a thousand words)

  414. Jean Henry
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

    “Avoid: 1) Aliens, 2) “Energy” fields, 3) Hollow earth, 4) Metaphysics, 5) Religions pantheons, 6) Moloch / Satan / Saturn, 7) Chemtrails, 8) Crop circles, 9) Detoxing / Cleansing Pineal Gland, 10) Chakras, 11) Reptiloids because normies will take one look at any of those and dismiss you as a nutcase.”

    Holy shit. I never got that deep into it. HW must be smoking more than grass.

    It was hysterical until I thought some asshole is going to think he can try adrenchrome by torturing a child and drinking his blood. Would the wealthy and privileged risk everything and torture a child for some snake oil? Hell no. But there’s probably one deranged addict out there who’s willing to try it to see if it’s true.

    Now I’m going to have nightmares.

    These assholes make White supremacists seem sensible.

    I cant believe none of this has been covered in the press when writing about Qanon. You’d think Vanity Fair or some other gossip rag would be all over it.

    Wait! Maybe we could have Qanon conspiracies be the theme for the MM float. It could be a giant web of evil-doers. Probably won’t go over any better to pretend to torture children and drink their blood than to recreate Judith and Holofernes.

  415. Jean Henry
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

    Adrenochrome is real and is simply oxidized epinephrine. No children are harmed in its making… I have an epi pen in my medicine cabinet if anyone wants to try it.
    Hunter S Thompson appears to have started the myth of live human body extraction in his book Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas which is so perfect I cant believe it.

    “One of his most famous drug references was the passage in Fear and Loathing with adrenochrome. To see the importance of Thompson’s description upon the history of the drug, and the relative lack of knowledge surrounding it, one must simple Google it. There is very little known about the substance, and it remains uncontrolled in the United States. According to Terry Gilliam, director of the movie, adrenocrome was an invention by Thompson, and consequently both the book and movie portray a fictional drug.[15] However, unknown to Gilliam, but presumably known to Thompson, the drug exists. Its effects, however, are known, and the method of its production is fictionalised in both the book and the movie. For a start, adrenochrone is produced not through the extraction of a human pineal gland, but rather through the oxidation of epinephrine.[16] The effects of adrenochrome are also debated, as some scientists believe it to be hallucinogenic and others don’t. Perhaps Thompson heard of the drug through Aldous Huxley’s Doors of Perception.”

    “Adrenochrome,” he said. “You won’t need much. Just a tiny taste.”
    I got the bottle and dipped the head of a paper match into it.
    “That’s about right,” he said. “That stuff makes pure mescaline seem like ginger beer. You’ll go completely crazy if u take too much.”
    …..
    “Jesus! What kind of monster client have you picked up this time? There’s only one source for this stuff….”
    He nodded.
    “The adrenaline glands from a living human body,” I said. “It’s no good if you get it out of a corpse.”
    – Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.

    I love stuff like this. All this going back and forth with HW, I had forgotten how incredibly amusing conspiracy theories can be.

  416. Jean
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

    OK. I read the Q thread and now feel better than ever about having put up that Brass Eye Paedogeddon a parody doc. Amazing something 15 years old can predict this age of outrage and misinformation and celebrity activism etc etc so well. Morris blamed the media for playing to the sensational. Some days I think he’s right, as much as I value the press and fear for its continuing independence and viability.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/07/brass-eye-chris-morris/493454/

    (Linking to an article about it, because when I linked to the fax doc itself, poor HW just about had a fit. Not getting the joke, clearly._

  417. Jean Henry
    Posted July 6, 2018 at 11:11 pm | Permalink

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goh2x_G0ct4

  418. Iron Lung 2
    Posted July 7, 2018 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    “In a recent series of posts, the anonymous whistleblower (group) QAnon made an important connection between the Vatican, Rothschild family, and Reptilian symbolism. Many followers of QAnon, who fall into the camp of Christian patriots, perceive the connection as exposing an other-worldly Satanic influence over the Vatican, the Rothschilds, and other forces making up the Deep State.

    Closer analysis, however, suggests that what QAnon is really referring to by the symbolism is a very physical “this-worldly” influence over the Deep State: Reptilian extraterrestrials.”

    Scary lizard people, but don’t tell the normies because they will think you are crazy.

    Wooooahhhhh phuuuuuck the lizard people are out to get me 420kushgulags4allnormies dank memes

    http://exonews.org/qanon-reveals-vatican-rothschild-reptilian-connection-behind-the-deep-state/

  419. Iron Lung 2
    Posted July 7, 2018 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    lol

    https://www.exopolitics.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/QAnon-Vatican-loan.jpg

  420. Posted July 7, 2018 at 9:26 am | Permalink

    The humanoid lizard thing has been with us for years. I first noted the existence of the local cell (of believers, not of humanoid lizards) back in 2009.

    http://markmaynard.com/2009/04/ickes-corner/

  421. Jean Henry
    Posted July 7, 2018 at 9:28 am | Permalink

    Science!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Alryavu9D5k

  422. Iron Lung 2
    Posted July 7, 2018 at 9:36 am | Permalink

    If you smoke enough weed, you can also believe in lizard people. Even if you don’t smoke weed, you can believe in Biblical fairy tales about Ham curses.

  423. Jean Henry
    Posted July 7, 2018 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    Well now we know what HW’s handwriting looks like…

    And does Woxprods share the same email as Mr Warlord? Just curious.

    I truly hope HW has the David Ickes haircut. I dont give a shit about haircuts but that was an impressive fail.

    Lastly, it seems everyone had more fun on MM 7 years ago and I’m wondering where things went awry.

    I blame Trump.

    Those are all my thoughts on that 7 year old post on a local blog.

    I think we need an MM post summarizing the Qanon conspiracy theory in all its glory. It is the personal cosmology of HW and I think many would be interested to see where he’s really coming from. I will admit, having looked through what IL posted, I feel no need to counter Mr. Warlord anymore. He has become funny. He really and truly doesn’t matter. At all. This bizarre underbelly of political influence needs to be exposed to our great amusement and so Hannity et al become embarrassed about playing to its many component parts.

  424. Jean Henry
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

    Hey Hysterical Kushlord– Any comment on this?

    How far does the deep state of your paranoia go?

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