Making enemies of our adversaries, and embracing our foes… The Trump Doctrine

[above: A petulant child, forced to interact with adults, pouts.]

I don’t have the time right now to put this in the proper context, but I wanted to pass along this video of our President, moments before leaving the United States for the G-7 meeting in Canada, declaring himself to be “Russia’s worst nightmare,” and, then, in the very next fucking breath, arguing on Putin’s behalf, saying that the rogue state should be allowed back into the group, whose membership represents the largest advanced economies in the world (Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the United Kingdom, and the United States). “Whether you like it or not, and it may not be politically correct… but we should have Russia at the negotiating table,” Trump said… Here’s the video.

As you may recall, Russia had been in the group, which had been known as the G-8, before being kicked out for violating international law. As Senator John McCain reminded us yesterday on Twitter, “Vladimir Putin chose to make Russia unworthy of membership in the G-8 by invading Ukraine and annexing Crimea. Nothing he has done since then has changed that most obvious fact.” And, of course, when McCain references what Putin has “done since,” he’s referring to the fact that, in the unanimous opinion of U.S. intelligence agencies, the Kremlin sought to interfere in our 2016 presidential election on Trump’s behalf.

And, I should note, all of these pro-Russia talking points from Trump are coming at a time when he’s also been attacking our oldest, most trusted allies. [Trump just this evening called Justin Trudeau, the prime minister of Canada, “very dishonest and weak,” while simultaneously pricing both Putin and Kim Jong Un.] Here with more context, is a clip from the New York Times.

…Rarely has President Trump’s role as a disrupter on the world stage been starker. At a moment of tumult over trade and nuclear security, he is shaking up the international order to make friends with America’s enemies and enemies out of America’s friends.

A businessman and entertainer with no diplomatic experience, Mr. Trump arrived at the White House nearly 17 months ago convinced that the economic and geopolitical alignments that have governed the world for seven decades were out of whack and biased against the United States.

But after a year of being restrained to some extent by advisers who championed that global order, Mr. Trump has replaced much of his national security team with more like-minded aides and is finally acting on his “America First” impulses in ways that are sending shock waves across Europe, Asia and North America.

At the annual meeting on Friday of seven major economies known as the Group of 7, Mr. Trump was the odd man out as he quarreled with Europeans and Canadians over trade and pushed for the reinstatement of Russia four years after it was cast out. Seemingly reluctant to spend more time with longtime allies than necessary, he planned to leave early on Saturday to meet instead with a longtime adversary, North Korea.

…In the 24 hours before heading to Quebec, Mr. Trump attacked Canada on Twitter six times for “unfair” trade practices and threw in a few jabs at France and the European Union for good measure. While in Canada, he did not hold a separate meeting with Prime Minister Theresa May of Britain and showed up so late that a session with Mr. Macron had to be rescheduled.

At the same time, the American president has in the past few weeks praised Kim Jong-un, the repressive leader of North Korea who has ordered his own relatives killed, as “very honorable.” And this week, Mr. Trump even hailed Iran’s theocratic rulers as a “much, much different group of leaders” who have pulled back from malign activities in the Middle East since he ripped up a nuclear agreement with them, a conclusion few others share.

With no country has Mr. Trump’s attitude been more opposite from the rest of American foreign policymakers than Russia. Speaking with reporters on Friday before leaving the White House for the Group of 7 meeting in Canada, the president proposed readmitting Russia. “They should let Russia come back in because we should have Russia at the negotiating table,” he said.

…Russia joined the group in the 1990s after emerging from the wreckage of the Soviet Union, making it the Group of 8, but its armed intervention in its neighbor Ukraine in 2014 and its seizure of Crimea angered other major powers. The remaining members, led by President Barack Obama, expelled Russia in a sign of global resolve not to let international borders be redrawn by force.

Mr. Trump offered no specific reasoning for why Russia should be let back in even though it retains control of Crimea and has not lived up to an international agreement to end its intervention in eastern Ukraine…

Unbelievably, Trump, when asked today about Russia’s actions in Ukraine and the Crimea, blamed not Vladimir Putin, but Barack Obama… Here’s the video.

So, that’s where we are today. We’re finding ourselves increasingly isolated as a nation, the western alliance is splintering, and Vladimir Putin is undoubtedly a happy man… As conservative foreign policy expert Max Boot said yesterday, “This transatlantic rift is a gift to Russia that amply repays Vladimir Putin’s investment in helping the Trump campaign.”

In spite of this, though, the feckless Republican Congress still refuses to act, either because they see the promise of personal gain, or because they fear the wrath of Donald Trump, and the prospect of primary opponents coming at them from the far Trumpist right.

We, my friends, are fucked. And no one is going to help us.

Even if Robert Mueller finds cause for the impeachment, and we retake Congress in November, we’ve still got to contend with the fact that Donald Trump, in spite of everything we already know, still has the unwavering support of about 40% of American voters. And these racist, anti-intellectual, conspiracy theory-loving morons aren’t going anywhere. That’s just terrifying. And it’s something that we’re going to be dealing with for the rest of our lives.

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372 Comments

  1. site admin
    Posted June 9, 2018 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

    John McCain has tweeted again.

    “To our allies: bipartisan majorities of Americans remain pro-free trade, pro-globalization & supportive of alliances based on 70 years of shared values. Americans stand with you, even if our president doesn’t.”

  2. CNN
    Posted June 9, 2018 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

    Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says he will impose retaliatory measures to answer President Trump’s tariffs on steel and aluminum: “Canadians: we’re polite, we’re reasonable, but we also will not be pushed around.” https://cnn.it/2LCsPyD

  3. Posted June 9, 2018 at 8:36 pm | Permalink

    Retaliatory measures won’t matter. As all great deal-makers know, “Trade wars are good, and easy to win.”

  4. Jean Henry
    Posted June 9, 2018 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

    I think you need to meet a few more Trump supporters than HW and EOS. They are not representative. The numbers for Trump are lower than for Nixon after the hearings. He still resigned. I encounter a lot of fear and loathing of average Trump supporters. This is never ever going to win them over. I know that’s not your intent and the rhetoric of resistance is absolutely necessary. But you need to understand that the harsher the language we use, very naturally the more they dig win their heels. Resistance is absolutely the norm to anyone who challanges anyone else’s deeply help beliefs and hopes. And yet people do change their minds. Often en masse. There is no reason whatsoever to feel distress at Trumps numbers of support. They are completely predictable and we would have the same number if we felt our guy was threatened. Look at how we treated Monica Lewinski? We need to separate Trump’a actions and that of a few of his supporters from the bulk of the remaining supporters. I really think you should spend some time with them. Maybe your fear would dissipate a bit. I do know that if Dems keep attacking Trump supporters who aren’t racist assholes as though they are (and as though Dems are inherently better) , then we are never ever going to win them over. They have legitimate complaints about white educated liberals and they very much align with those of POC activists. We might want to listen to them all a bit more.

  5. Posted June 9, 2018 at 8:49 pm | Permalink

    I think I probably know more Trump supporters than you think I do, Jean. And I’m not inclined, at least at this point in the game, to spend a lot of time listening to them. If they stayed with Trump through the pussy grabbing, the payoffs to sex workers, the birtherism, the mocking of the disabled, the collusion, the lies, and all the rest of it, I think it’s pretty safe to say that they aren’t likely to come back. No, I’d rather write them off and spend my time talking with younger folks, first time voters, etc.

  6. Posted June 9, 2018 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

    As for Nixon, his popularity didn’t drop until the tapes came out, and I doubt were going to be so lucky this time out.

  7. Jean Henry
    Posted June 9, 2018 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

    We stuck with Clinton who was a total ass in many ways. And the Kennedy’s, because we supported the larger goal. Moralism is always relative. It’s not a great way to judge a leader. The danger of Trump is not his abuse of women or his dalliances with porn stars. We overlooked Obama’s treatment of immigrants. Trump supporters dont love everything he does. they are simply conservatives voting their values.
    Strategically you are right to try to drive Dom turnout. That makes sense. I think your political perspective lacks self-reflection sometimes. These are humans, these Trump supporters. And you talk about them with tremendous bias that should be reserved for outright racists, not people fooled into supporting an asshole. Dems are not superior. It’s really unfortunate that you seem to believe that. The outcomes in this county should be enough to tell you we aren’t getting it right. Our righteousness is the primary limitation on our ability to be effective in creating change on the left. And our vulnerability to manipulation.
    Save your outrage for Trump. Not his average supporters. It’s inhumane. Your exhibiting the bias that you hate in them.

  8. iRobert
    Posted June 9, 2018 at 10:26 pm | Permalink

    Seeking to renegotiate trade agreements makes sense for the US, as does opening direct negotiations with adversaries. However, the way Trunp is behaving is irrational, destabilizing, and reckless. I agree, a lot can go wrong very fast. We could be very screwed.

  9. EOS
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 2:34 am | Permalink

    Not sure you meant to use the term adversaries in this context. Aren’t they already our enemies?

    Merkel wants a “New World Order” with Europe. No thanks. Let them pay their own way from now on.

    Jean does have some insight in this matter. The Democratic Party needs to stand for something besides baseless accusations of your opponents. You’re broke and you have no consensus or leadership.

  10. Jean Henry
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 5:50 am | Permalink

    EOS– I do think Dems need an articulated positive vision of the future to drive voter turn out, which has and will determine election outcomes more than any other factor, outside of gerrymandering. But I also think running against Trump is very smart. He, demo by demo, is pissing off a lot of people. The protectionism alone will lose him half his support when the economic chickens come home to roost. For now, he’s been protected by Obama’s recovery. Give it time. These trade wars can have immediate impacts in terms of lay offs, etc.

    We, as a country. are dividing into two different factions within each party– a protectionist, populist one and a globalist, more moderate one. I dont know how that’s going to shake out, but Trump’s Stephen Miller style(protectionist, pro-Russia and anti- Europe) foreign policy right now is populism not conservativism. It could not be further from core GOP values. This is the GOP’s worst nightmare. Whether or not you believe the economic shake-up is necessary, it’s going to have a huge disruptive impact if he stays the course, which means economic destabilization. Maybe not before November, but he doesn’t seem smart enough to delay the impacts until afterwards, which is what the old GOP regularly does with disruptive.policy.

    I think it’s absolutely necessary to be ruthless in our criticism of Trump as with anyone in power. I also think we should be relentless in our scrutiny of both parties. I don’t think hating the people who vote for either side is useful. And I think we are being fooled a bit, each side, into thinking we are more aligned politically on each side than we are. Each party creates cohesion within their membership by pushing hatred of the other side, especially it’s membership. This leaves anyone who is undecided or non committal or just moderate, very much in the dust and likely to just align to where their family and friends are or to stay home.

    It can work politically; I think it’s wrong ethically. I believe in the process. My 12 year old can figure out that you aren’t going to win people over by calling them assholes. Those who voted Trump but aren’t happy with him are faced with the prospect of joining a party that called them intolerant assholes (while obviously being that too) or staying home. So many will stay home. And the Dems will never ever unify the working class and so become truly progressive economically. And a large portion of the country will hear less and less real information and more and more Fox News propaganda. Because they have no place else to go.

    If Trump takes a big enough fall from Mueller, maybe it will all be ok. We will all have to have a moment of reckoning in the wake of that. It’s the kind of national crisis that can temporarily re-unite us. With email in existence as a record, it’s possible there will be a modern day equivalent to the Nixon tapes kind of confirmation of Trumps fore knowledge of illegality and cover up. And I think that may be necessary.

    But the problem Mark identifies with Trump supporters is misplaced. Their indifference to porn stars or foreign destabilization or his bigotry is not a reflection of their character but a response to our attacks on them as human beings. We give them no place else to go. As I said, moralism is always very subjectively applied. Each sides inconsistencies are glaring to the other side, while we remain oblivious to our own.

    I can talk politics just fine with Trump supporters. They know I’m not going to agree with them on most things. I’ve been surprised how much we can agree upon. I can do this because I dont start with assuming they are bigots and jerks. I do this by not being one myself. And they dont say racist or bigoted things around me. The persistent core of US racial inequality is not outright bigotry as it is systemic and cultural racism, which the Dems support and suffer from as well. I often think moral outrage is a shield to avoid self-reflection. What could be less moral?

  11. Jean Henry
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 5:59 am | Permalink

    I think Mark needs to consider what interests are served by hating Trump supporters and thinking Dems are somehow inherently better.
    It doesn’t make Dems better or. stronger.
    It protects us from the self-scrutiny re our own participation in systemic issues, and so it really only serves to prevent us from being better and stronger.
    My impression is that most POC dont hate Trump supporters nearly as much as white liberals and radicals do. Or rather, they distrust white liberals and radicals as much as they do Trump supporters. And we should be looking at that more closely if we want to be a better less divided party.

  12. Anonymous
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 7:09 am | Permalink

    “Jean does have some insight in this matter.” -EOS

    Jean, when EOS starts singing your praises, you might want to reevaluate your position.

  13. kjc
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 7:20 am | Permalink

    “I think your political perspective lacks self-reflection sometimes. These are humans, these Trump supporters. And you talk about them with tremendous bias that should be reserved for outright racists, not people fooled into supporting an asshole. Dems are not superior. It’s really unfortunate that you seem to believe that. The outcomes in this county should be enough to tell you we aren’t getting it right. Our righteousness is the primary limitation on our ability to be effective in creating change on the left. And our vulnerability to manipulation.
    Save your outrage for Trump. Not his average supporters. It’s inhumane. Your exhibiting the bias that you hate in them.”

    Oh for chrissake. You might want to reflect on the self-righteousness a bit. I feel like whipping your ass on mark’s behalf. You could shelve this tone forever and no one would miss it.

  14. Meta
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    “The Russians are actively seeking to divide our Alliance, and we must not allow that to happen” says U.S. Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats, speaking in France

    Russia is attempting to influence the midterm elections in the United States in November as well as divide the transatlantic alliance, US Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats warned at a meeting co-hosted by the Atlantic Council in Normandy, France, on June 8.

    Coats said Russia had already undertaken an “unprecedented influence campaign to interfere in the US electoral and political process” in 2016. Russia, Coats pointed out, has also meddled in France, Germany, Norway, Spain, and Ukraine. “It is 2018, and we continue to see Russian targeting of American society in ways that could affect our midterm elections,” he said.

    Coats’ comments are aligned with assessments by the US intelligence community and US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who in his previous role as director of the Central Intelligence Agency warned that he expected Russia to attempt to disrupt the midterm elections.

    Coats spoke at a meeting jointly hosted by the Atlantic Council, Le Figaro, and the Tocqueville Foundation in Normandy, France.

    Coats said Russia had conducted cyberattacks and disinformation campaigns with the intent of “degrading our democratic values and weakening our alliances.”

    “These Russian actions are purposeful and premeditated and they represent an all-out assault, by Vladimir Putin, on the rule of law, Western ideals and democratic norms,” he said.

    Read more:
    http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/director-of-national-intelligence-dan-coats-russia-is-attempting-to-influence-us-midterms-divide-transatlantic-alliance

  15. Jean Henry
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 7:52 am | Permalink

    Anonymous– I countered EOS. Of course she is going to chime in with some support when I critique the left.
    “Jean, when EOS starts singing your praises, you might want to reevaluate your position.”– THAT is an expression of ideology not criticism.

    KJC–What are you bringing to the table, really?

    I take positions that are actually articulated and thought through. You come in and lambast people with personal attacks. I’m very much ok with being called a righteous scold about some stuff. Especially if I’ve thought it through. The nature of activism is to be a righteous scold. You’re being one right now. I’m ok with that. I just wish you actually put your viewpoint out there for scrutiny rather than sniping from the sidelines, like some grumpy old man on a stoop. It’s more tolerable when you are funny. Everybody prefers a funny grouch. You have yet to impress me that you think anything through, much less think anything through with complexity. Dont read what I write. I really dont care. I’m hear to figure things out. I’m not here to please an audience.
    It seems you only come here to become righteously angry at others.. and to no end. Have fun with that.

  16. Jean Henry
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 7:58 am | Permalink

    Trump supporters are not ‘terrifying.’ Trump is terrifying.

    Maybe I should have left it at that.

    This was good on the foreign policy debacle underway. It’s two days old and a bit outdated already. The premise holds: https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-trumps-washington/under-trump-america-first-really-is-turning-out-to-be-america-alone

  17. Posted June 10, 2018 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    I need to study up on the Marshall Plan and what was done in the former Axis countries after WW-II, especially as it relates to… for lack of a better word… the “reeducation” of Nazi supporters. I suspect there’s something to be learned. Hitler, like Trump, was popular, but, in defeat, that popularity waned. In that case, though, you had the proof of unspeakable war crimes, and not just evidence of corruption, collusion, etc.

    With all of the said, though, you’re right, Jean, that I could have toned down my comment about “these racist, anti-intellectual, conspiracy theory-loving morons.” I know it’s not helpful. I also know, though, that it hasn’t helped over this past decade as we’ve humored their birtherism and the like, taking it seriously, legitimizing it, and giving them a voice. Yes, some of them may be “fine people”, who just support Trump because they value the Supreme Court seats he’ll deliver. I don’t think, however, that excuses their support of Donald Trump. And I feel as though they need to be held accountable. As I said in a previous comment, they’ve now had ample opportunity to jump ship. I’m not inclined to be forgiving.

  18. Jean Henry
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 8:14 am | Permalink

    Racial, economic and cultural segregation lead to a lot of bad thinking.
    Isolationism is another form of segregation.
    It’s all the same phenomenon. They both run on bias and perpetuate it systematically.
    Tribalism is the seat of most durable conflict. And conflict is not a place where problems get solved.

  19. Jean Henry
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 8:19 am | Permalink

    I dont think any group of people is any better than any other, Mark. You seem to.

    I can think people are politically deluded without thinking they are bad people. And I dont think Dems are good people. I think their idea that they are, just like conservatives, is the seat of their own delusions.

    I’m asking you to consider more deeply their perspective. What room have you really given them to jump ship? What ship are we offering them? We might want to figure that out before the next election cycle. Most Trump supporters I know understand I hate the guy and accept that so long as I dont hate them.

  20. Jean Henry
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 8:21 am | Permalink

    Whenever someone uses the phrase ‘they need to be held accountable,” a little bit of democracy dies.

  21. Jean Henry
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 8:28 am | Permalink

    I dont think Europe right now is a model for effective re-education against Nazism.

    Nationalism falls apart when their nations/leaders fail.
    Democracies are vulnerable to tyranny, but are also the only defense against it. This is in plato’s Republic. We know this stuff and continue to repeat it endlessly. What we need to do now is shore up our commitment to a functional democracy. That’s no coincidentally a non-partisan issue.

    Your use of the term ‘re-edcuation’ without qualm concerns me. The Marshall Plan caused a lot of later conflict as you know. It’s failure was in believing that order can be imposed from on high and last that way.

  22. Posted June 10, 2018 at 8:34 am | Permalink

    For what it’s worth, I’m not arguing for neighborhood sweeps and death chambers, Jean. I’m just saying that I’m less inclined at this point to reach out and offer a hand in friendship. That ship, as they say, has sailed. And I’m not going to shed a lot of tears for MAGA hat wearing imbeciles who, in supporting Trump, shit their own throats. Like I said, I’d rather focus on new voters. People who have supported trump this far, though all of the insanity, as far as I’m concerned, are on their own.

  23. Posted June 10, 2018 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    When I said “reeducation” I also said, “for lack of a better term.” I’m aware of the issue.

  24. Jean Henry
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 8:37 am | Permalink

    Most Trump supporters are a long way from Nazi-ism. They simply voted for the guy who seemed to be listening to them and who attacked those who they oppose politically. Dems fell for the same thing with Bernie. They didn’t ask too many questions so long as someone played their tune, and especially so long as they hated what they hated. And my concern with each was the cult of personality, the ideology, purity testing etc etc. I know, I know… Most Berners were ‘fine people. ‘ We shouldn’t judge the mass of them on a few of them who were violent, bigoted and reactionary. Right? Or are you still on that Bros dont exist thing?

    Hitler held power for 12 years, most of it in a state of war, which is always a state of heightened nationalism. I doubt Trump will even get his 8. I actually think if he starts a war that may work in his favor. I hope he doesn’t figure that out.

  25. Jean Henry
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    “I’m not going to shed a lot of tears for MAGA hat wearing imbeciles who, in supporting Trump, shit their own throats” Look at your language Mark. Seriously. Dehumanizing language and enmity go together I guess. But you are deg=humanizing 40% f the US population. It’s super fucked up.

  26. Jean Henry
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 8:46 am | Permalink

    And neither they nor I asked you to ‘shed tears for them.’

    I’m asking you to give them their full humanity and also to see your own. Pity has zero to do with that. Liberals spend a lot of time pitying people. It’s a form of self-distancing too. It may be our biggest problem.

    Would you like conservatives to treat you with derision, pity or basic humanity? They dont ask you to agree with them politically. that can’t be a condition for humane treatment in a democracy.
    This is a golden rule thing.
    And that’s pretty much the only way to be something close to right about anything.

  27. Jcp2
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 8:49 am | Permalink

    Are you making a distinction between people who support Trump because of his personality and people who support Trump because of his party affiliation? If close to half of people in this country are “irredeemable”, then working with those people must be really taxing. It’s enough to make one a bitter, bitter man.

  28. Jcp2
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 8:52 am | Permalink

    Evidently I cross posted with Jean.

  29. Posted June 10, 2018 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    Not at all dehumanizing. Quite the opposite.

    I am not referring to them as “animals”, as Trump has done when talking about immigrants. I am saying that, as fully conscious adult human beings, they made a decision to follow a racist liar who has put us on a path toward armageddon. And they own that.

  30. Posted June 10, 2018 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    Again, I’m not suggesting death camps or reeducation facilities. I’m just saying that 1) we’ve got a lot of stupid and/or truly despicable people in this country, 2) it hasn’t helped to take their concerns seriously and give them equal time to spout nonsense, and 3) going forward we need to invest more heavily in public education, especially as relates to the teaching of history and civics.

  31. Posted June 10, 2018 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    “They simply voted for the guy who seemed to be listening to them and who attacked those who they oppose politically.”

    No, it’s not at all that simple. They supported a known liar and cheat as they thought he could help them get what they wanted. There is no honor in that. Not a bit. And we need to stop defending them, explaining away their decision to support at racist, criminal pussy-grabber as somehow reasonable and OK. It is not.

  32. Sad
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    Bill Clinton was a known liar and cheat.

    But he was our lying cheat.

    People are people.

    McDonalds is food.

  33. iRobert
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    EOS, I only used the term adversaries because I wanted to include Russia and China in that group, but not suggest they are enemies. North Korea and Iran have declared themselves enemies of the US, so it just seems to me as a given that they are.

    I share your lack of enthusiasm for Merkel and believe the EU has a lot of problems which are not the responsibility of the US. I also believe the US has a lot of problems the Europeans will want to avoid as much as possible.

    I also generally agree with your criticisms of the Democrats and also feel Jean has some good insights into that subject.

  34. EOS
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 10:01 am | Permalink

    Jean,

    Please use my preferred pronoun. I don’t know how much longer I can tolerate these microaggressions.

  35. Sad
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    Sticks and stones will break my bones but incorrect pronouns will never hurt me.

    Still, microaggressions can be devastating.

  36. Jean Henry
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 10:19 am | Permalink

    EOS.
    You have never stated a preferred pronoun. We are left to guess.

    You will find I’m not much for the ‘safe spaces’ side of the equation. It seems to be a university campus thing and a white privilege thing more than anything else. And I hear it from the right, left and the libertarian sides on campus and among college graduates. And of course the issue is hyperbolized and amplified by the right wing media. Most of the professors who have been canned and students expelled have been leftists… So there’s that. Haven’t you EOS, stated that you feel there’s a war on Christianity? Everyone’s a damn victim. We have numbers to look to. And facts. And historic and present systems of exclusion that can be identified. And their impact confirmed by those numbers. It’s very easy to figure out who our systems benefit most and who they leave behind.

    There’s nothing acutely sensitive about identifying the problem. And there’s no one ideology prescribing the answer. You are consistently wrong in assuming so EOC. You are the one with the victim complex and the ideological rigidity and the black/white thinking– literally.

  37. EOS
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 10:34 am | Permalink

    No, I’ve never stated that I feel there is a war on Christianity. I am not a victim. Being ideologically consistent is a rational approach to politics and life in general.

    That you acknowledge there are 2 factions within each party is a partial understanding of the problem. The “Globalists” are neither Republican nor Democrat, but have infiltrated both parties to accomplish their means. The Globalists will prevent either party from enacting a populist agenda.

    And I will tell you one more time that my preferred pronoun is “Your Majesty”. Kindly stop the denigration of calling me she/her.

  38. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 10:37 am | Permalink

    You have no idea what you are talking about, Mark. Trump is at war with the most evil and powerful people on the planet: the ones whose political puppets are Trump’s opponents. You like the Rothschilds and want their candidates in power? What the fuck is wrong with you?

  39. EOS
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    The Globalists brought you Hillary Clinton, while the majority of Democrats wanted a progressive candidate.

  40. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    You have no idea what you are talking about, Mark. Trump is at war with the most evil and powerful people on the planet: the ones whose political puppets are Trump’s opponents. You like the Rothschilds and want their candidates in power? What the fuck is wrong with you?

  41. Sad
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    “Your Majesty” that opens a whole nother can o worms !

    Just when you think things couldn’t get any weirder.

  42. Jean Henry
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    They supported a known liar and cheat as they thought he could help them get what they wanted.”– that is literally every politician ever.

    I am not saying the Trump is not worse by every conceivable measure than the others. His election was possible because of how our political system has been working lately. Gerrymandering and the re-emergence of populist political strategies has increased and amplified the division between us. Trump is a product of that division you are now perpetuating.

    There’s no way forward in it. And calling people morons IS dehumanizing. Especially when its 40% of the population. Just because Trump is worse doesn’t make it ok for you to do as well. There are degrees of bias. The existence of rape doesn’t make molestation ok.

    I’ll take you at your word that you know more Trump supporters than I imagine. I’m guessing you aren’t relying on them for support or even friendly with them though. I don’t see how you could talk about them as you do otherwise. I have found that when I treat people decently, they mostly return the behavior and we all become our best selves. The opposite is happening in politics right now and we are all becoming our worst selves.

    I dont hesitate to call many Trump supporters racist, but I also call a lot of Dems racist too. I’m not saying ‘be nice’ to them. I’m saying be balanced in your assessment of them and yourself, because we share the same country and have to get along. We literally need to start thinking of this country and globe as a shared boat with in which we are all interdependent and all need to respect and look out for one another. And we all need to behave our best.

    But not with HW. Screw that guy.

  43. Jean Henry
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    EOS wants us to worship false idols– Trump and her.

  44. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 10:43 am | Permalink

    How do you think you can screw me? With constant lies? That’s some great stuff you’re doing there. You are going to get even more hysterical before you finally see the light.

  45. EOS
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    Worship only God, Hate only sin. It’s not that hard to remember.

  46. Jean Henry
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 10:47 am | Permalink

    Ripped from the pages of FB as point in case:
    ” Lol, I had a fascinating interaction just yesterday at the Ann Arbor Dems meeting. I brought my kids along so that they could experience the Mayoral candidate debate. An older White woman squinted at their nametags and asked how to pronounce their names. I pronounced them for her and she asked, “Why didn’t you give them American names?!”

    I had to tell her that they ARE American names because they are American, as am I. She mumbled something about how people make things hard for others. I said if people can say Tchaikovsky then they can say my kids’ names. She replied, “I prefer Eurocentric names for Americans.”

    So, another lesson on racism, way too early in the morning, in a very White space, in our generally liberal town. I brought my kids to be a part of the democratic process but we were siderailed with someone questioning our identities. They were the only kids there and there were only 3 other POC in the room. I’ll still bring my kids along because POC parents have to train our kids how to deal with awkward, insensitive and racially tinged experiences. This wasn’t as terrible as others but it’s like a slow moving train to an eventuality, even as we try to work on social justice issues together.”

    There are ‘morons’ on all sides. And good, decent people on all sides. And some times in the same person.ok all times…

  47. EOS
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 10:48 am | Permalink

    I stand with HW – waiting for the IG report to be released.

  48. Jean Henry
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 10:48 am | Permalink

    “Worship only God, Hate only sin. And call me ‘Majesty.’ ” –EOS

  49. EOS
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    What? It’s a name, not a title. Do you typically worship royalty?

  50. Jean Henry
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 10:53 am | Permalink

    Hey HW– How are you feeling lately about Trump’s buddy, Mohammed Bin Salman, in Saudi Arabia, the Prince you said was cleaning house of corruption. He arrested a whole slew of human rights activists recently including those who advocated for the gender equality and modernization reforms he enacted. Still think he’s a swell guy? A hero reformer?
    I can certainly see why Trump likes him.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/the-high-price-of-feminism-in-thenew-saudi-arabia/2018/05/20/99d6dfde-5c3f-11e8-b656-236c6214ef01_story.html

  51. Lynne
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    “your Majesty” isn’t a pronoun. I dont know wht it thinks it is but will henceforth use “it” to refer to EOS.

    As for being harsh towards Trump voters, I dont think it is even possible to have voted for Trump without being seriously racist and sexist. I am reminded of a quote from Bill Hicks,

    “I don’t mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that’s how it comes out.” -Bill Hicks

    The best I can do is to remind myself that people can be seriously racist and sexist or have other areas of bigoted thinking and still be otherwise good people. I think often in this context of some of my older relatives who are kind loving people despite their racist views. In more contemporary news, I think of Anthony Bourdain and all the essays written about HIS kindness and compassion even though he was straight up abusive towards fat people. People are complex and we all have our blind spots to one degree or another.

    So the question is, how can we respect the humanity of those who either are abusive themselves or who vote for abusers? I try to contain my schadenfreude when they get hurt by the people they voted in. I am not always good at that either.

  52. EOS
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 11:11 am | Permalink

    McCain v. Obama
    Bush v. Clinton
    Carter v. Ford
    Clinton v. Dole
    Kerry v. Bush

    The insiders really don’t care which party get’s their man elected. Both are in the tank for the globalists. The important thing is to ramp up the rhetoric during the election and escalate the “divide” within our country. Once in office, they all promote the same agenda and nothing ever changes. Trump is the exception. Trump is a threat to them because he has his own wealth and cannot be bought by them.

  53. EOS
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    That’s not how it works Lynne. You can’t pick my pronoun. You have to comply with my preference or risk being fired in many workplaces today. And Stephen King has copyrighted “IT”

  54. EOS
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    OK. You can call me EOS. Just stop assuming my gender.

  55. Jean Henry
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 11:42 am | Permalink

    The culture wars are happening mostly in the imagination of the far right and far left. This should offer some comfort. If you watch Fox News and Breitbart stories about things like a California Law that would jail people for using the wrong pronouns (FALSE– duh) and you are inclined to believe they are on your side, then you would rightly be horrified.

    Just as the left is fooled by misleading stories playing to their biases’ specially towards the GOP. Please remember that the Russian stated intent in disrupting our elections was not originally to put Trump in office (which they thought impossible) but simply to disrupt our faith in the process and sow divisiveness on both sides. Are we really fighting Trump and the Russian interference when you play to the same divisiveness? (None of this denies that most of our complaints about the right and the left have some basis in reality.

    Circling back to TG rights I have had very productive conversations with Trup supporters about the issue when we get past the fears and curiosity and start talking about respecting everyone’s right to individuality and individual self-definition. They get that. These conversations can’t happen if you start with derision and suspicion.

    http://www.politifact.com/california/article/2017/sep/26/claims-mislead-about-california-bill-forcing-jail-/

  56. Jean Henry
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 11:47 am | Permalink

    EOS– No one has been fired or fined for using the wrong pronoun and no one ever will. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/transgender-pronouns-fine-nyc/

  57. Lynne
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 11:49 am | Permalink

    EOS, I absolutely respect that you are gender ambiguous and will use gender neutral pronouns to refer to you in the future. You are correct that you should be able to choose your own pronouns but they must be pronouns in the first place.

  58. Jean Henry
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 11:50 am | Permalink

    Not even in Canada
    https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/qbnamx/no-the-trans-rights-bill-doesnt-criminalize-free-speech

  59. Bucket O' Eels
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    I think this thread pretty much sums up the madness of 2018 America.

    Debating over things like “your majesty” and saying things like….

    “You have no idea what you are talking about, Mark. Trump is at war with the most evil and powerful people on the planet: the ones whose political puppets are Trump’s opponents. You like the Rothschilds and want their candidates in power? What the fuck is wrong with you?”

  60. X
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    I’m not for cruelty, but there should at least be haircuts for collaborators.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cap5u9mhQoA

  61. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

    Regarding bin Salman: “She spent several days in prison…” Relative to the old guard that is probably quite an improvement. Better than lopping off the head or something. Women are getting more rights now and there is less severe repression overall is what I am seeing.

  62. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

    HOW is what I said madness, eels? Why do you people never explain your reasoning? You haven’t developed to the point where you do more than just take shots at statements you don’t understand?

  63. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

    “Relative to the old guard that is probably quite an improvement. Better than lopping off the head or something.”

    lol.

    The stoned white guy speaks. I can see it now, Hitler decides that killing Jews is too much of a PR debacle and switches to making sure they can’t reproduce.

    “Relative to the gas chambers, forced sterilization was probably an improvement.”

  64. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

    You say stoned WHITE guy like it is a bad thing. You are the racist, Pete. I don’t discriminate based on race. Anyone who knows me knows that. You openly do though. Obviously it’s cherrypicking and exaggerating to act like that story is indicative of bin Salman being worse or even half as bad as Al Waleed and co. That’s who supported Obama so how can you not even think about that and try to criticize me in such an asinine shitflinging way?

  65. EOS
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

    Jean,

    Your Snopes reference applies only to accidental use of the wrong pronoun. And even that is wrong, as persons who accidentally used the wrong pronoun were accused of doing so purposely.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/05/17/you-can-be-fined-for-not-calling-people-ze-or-hir-if-thats-the-pronoun-they-demand-that-you-use/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.b7ce04f3da68

    http://dailycaller.com/2017/11/13/teacher-faces-discipline-after-using-wrong-pronoun-for-transgender-student/

    http://dailycaller.com/2018/06/06/indiana-teacher-resign-transgender-policies/

  66. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    Haha – yesterday some guy named Riney came around the neighborhood in an old van and a big sign campaigning for office. He was like “Want some hotdogs and lemonade???” I said “I’m not drinking that! It might have Democrat Kool-aide in it!!!” He was like “I AM a Democrat!” And I was like “I KNOW!!!” Told him I voted for Trump after a lifetime of Independent voting and why (Trump is dismantling the criminal networks in government) and he was like “We’re not supposed to say this – but that’s BULLSHIT!” I was like “Wait until next week!” Funny shit! It brightened my day especially how he walked right into the kool-aid one hahaha!

  67. Anonymous
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

    NYT: “President Trump’s top economic adviser accused Justin Trudeau of a “betrayal” that risked making Mr. Trump look weak before his North Korea meeting.”

    So, it stands to reason that, if Trump fails to make peace with North Korea, it’s all his fault, right?

  68. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

    Hoping he fails, Anonymous?

  69. stupid hick
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

    “Trump is the exception. Trump is a threat to them because he has his own wealth and cannot be bought by them.”

    That’s funny, my impression is “self dealing” and “conflict of interest” are perhaps the most definitive common characteristics of Trump and his inner circle. Does your “logic” about wealth apply to Mitt Romney?

  70. Posted June 10, 2018 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

    From a former foreign policy advisor to PM Justin Trudeau.

  71. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

    Why do you love all that loser shit? You want to keep hemorrhaging money till the USA is finally dead? Why should we have a trade deficit? Wtf has been going on all these decades!

  72. Posted June 10, 2018 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

    I did not say anywhere in my post that trade deals should not be amended. I suspect, in some instances, it would make sense to do so. What I object to is the offhand manner in which Trump, with absolutely no appreciation for the complexity of such things, just jumps in like an idiot, announcing tariffs and declaring that “trade wars are good and easy to win.” Every projection I’ve seen this far suggests there will be massive job losses as a result of these poorly thought out tariffs of his.

  73. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

    What will you say when the much better deals go through. You’ve painted yourself into a corner. Remember how arrogant you were when I said Flynn will not flip because there is nothing to flip about? Talk to me after the next round of indictments, you said. I came back to talk about it and you didn’t say shit. Now McCabe is in trouble for falsifying information about Flynn. The agents present said they found no indication he lied!

  74. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    Imagine: just months ago it was inconceivable North Korea would think of denuclearization. Now look where we are. How can you say Trump doesn’t know exactly what he is doing? Trump will win and win for all of us and you will feel like a major dipshit.

  75. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

    Weren’t you crying about Trump saying his button was bigger (MAJOR UNDERSTATEMENT!!!) and everything like that? He was going to get us into a nuclear war? Do you feel dumb as shit yet?

  76. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

    You dumb fuckin’ assholes!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWAFvIT-NHs

  77. Jean Henry
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

    EOS- the British dude was suspended. And then he sued. There are lots of stories floating around that one. I’ll wait for the verdict. It’s true that people like the British dude who intentionally and repeatedly violate school policy to respect TG students identity may face repercussions just like any teacher would who willfully and repeatedly violated any school policy. If a person’s religion teaches them that women must submit to men and that school policy disallows discrimination based on gender, a male teacher doesn’t have a right to assert his dominance over women because of his religion .

    HW -The Saudi Prince has detained and arrested hundreds of journalists and activists, not just one.
    I have never supported the US relationship with the Saudis, for the record.

    Mark—Seymour Hersch was just on On the Media. His criticism of the media’s coverage of Trump was interesting. He said we are focusing too much on Trumps volatility and not enough on the other players in the cabinet and the victims of his policies. He said the media are allowing Trump to direct their coverage. He also talked about how crazy Nixon and Johnson were. I thought it was balanced and a solid take.

  78. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

    But your politicians who you try to vilify people for being against took millions from the old Saudi guard so you have to reckon with that. It’s necessarily a comparison between the new and old Saudi regime. Do we know for sure all these people are innocent? They aren’t agents of foreign or domestic powers or anything? How do you know?

  79. Jean Henry
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 7:44 pm | Permalink

    This happened in the holocaust too.
    https://twitter.com/lizcgoodwin/status/1005792756726452225?s=21
    In McAllen Texas alone, 415 children have been separated from their parents in the last two weeks.
    If we told these stories more, individually, they’d have more impact than a thousand pages on the Mueller investigation or Trump tweets.
    I find it amusing, in light of these abuses, that so many worry that the ‘culture wars’ will bring forward totalitarianism. Look it’s happening already. On US soil. But it doesn’t matter so long as it’s happening to ‘them.’

    Everybpllitical side relies on a ‘them’ and it lets those who abuse their power slide.
    Grace Boggs once said when you ‘other’ anyone, you other yourself. We are living the dysfunction born of that tribalism now.

  80. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    I saw the pic of the kids in cages from the Obama era so Obama was like Hitler? What happens to the kids these days? Are they mistreated? How long are they separated? What happens to them?

  81. Jean Henry
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

    I wrote this on another thread, but during the Obala era, during the very poorly conceived policy offering minors asylum, kids who crossed without parents were held briefly and then released to social services, from which they were placed with family members or sponsoring families.
    The policy to separate families to deter immigration is new under Trump. The parents are told to plead guilty and they’ll get their kids back. This is not happening. The promises are not being fulfilled. The detention centers are full to overflowing and I hear from those active re foreign adoption abuses that some are being sent up north to be fostered by white Christian families.
    The reality is the system has no capacity to handle this kind of situation. It has no protocols for this because Trump is really really shitty at the most basic policy implementation. He’s Loki for sure. Disruptive but no genius and you are taking one hell of a bet that the chaos he is making will produce more good than horror. So far it’s clear to all of us that he’s produced a lot more horror.

    This is the guy you think cares about kids and sex trafficking….

  82. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 10:19 pm | Permalink

    I put up an article about 150+ arrests and I think some 50 children rescued just yesterday or something. I’d say the parents are to blame. They put their children in that situation. You are saying parents and children are being permanently separated? Are these parents in jail for criminal offenses or are they deported without the kids and never see them again? How do you know?

  83. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 10:22 pm | Permalink

    https://twitter.com/TheRealCheshCat/status/1005998564558954496

  84. Lynne
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 10:33 pm | Permalink

    The parents are not the ones removing the children. Saying that the parents are to blame feels similar to how so many abusers blame their victims. “I had to smack her, she disobeyed me”

  85. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 11:09 pm | Permalink

    Good parents don’t take their children into dangerous situations. It can feel however you want it to feel. Why should I care about how it feels to you? You are one of the swampsuckers.

  86. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 11:12 pm | Permalink

    OMFG – Trudeau’s eyebrows FELL OFF in the summit!!! Hahahaha that is HILARIOUS!!! Trump had him sweating and the glue couldn’t take the swampiness of his face!

  87. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 11:15 pm | Permalink

    Ahahaha!!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUP_vQoDALI

  88. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 10, 2018 at 11:45 pm | Permalink

    Could be bad lighting but it’s fun to think it just drooped down onto his eyelid in the middle of his conference. Good times.

  89. Jean Henry
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 5:34 am | Permalink

    Look HW. Are these the actions of someone ending government over-reach and dismantling the deep state?
    Or are they the actions of someone pushing the limits of executive power to mold every single aspect of government to further his own interests?

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/michellefabio/2018/04/06/department-of-homeland-security-compiling-database-of-journalists-and-media-influencers/#66cf4c1d6121

  90. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 5:51 am | Permalink

    Paywall. Talking about the CIA Mockingbird media getting wrapped up no doubt. That’s good.

  91. iRobert
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:18 am | Permalink

    …except for Fox News, Hyborian Warlord. Fox News is the exception. They’re going to save us from the Mockingbird media, in the same way Trump is saving us from the deep state globalists.

  92. Jean Henry
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 8:39 am | Permalink

    HW approves purges in the name of freedom. But he’s no ideologue.

  93. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    Fox is full of them too. I hated all of them in the Bush/9-11 era. Hannity chirping lies about the Iraq War and all that shit. Rumors he was CIA-connected were more than plausible. Now Sean Hannity has dropped more truth during the Trump era than anyone on tv. I don’t know what happened. Maybe he figured some things out. Fox is lukewarm to outright anti-Trump during parts of each day, mostly afternoon. Tv news is a joke. I only watch Hannity on youtube to see what the public is being allowed to see/how far Fox is willing to let him go.

    You are against purging the media of CIA assets/agents spreading propaganda/lies, Jean? What gives? You have no problem denying blatant criminal behavior by your fave politicians. Can’t conceive of something called Mockingbird being an actual CIA operation. How do all of you not know the CIA is evil and has their shit together? If you live in this world it’s just obvious. They have you on their plan though! You subscribe to it with money!!!

  94. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:43 am | Permalink

    “purges in the name of freedom”

    Now you are trying to get ahead of a USA corruption purge actually happening, something I said would happen waaay back in November. The ridicule and scorn from a whole bunch of people on here was tremendous. It’s really bad the way you people act. Insinuation and straight up lies are how you live your life every day. Try being real for a change. Don’t be a little CIA sucker. This guy is soooo talking to everyone here except like three of us. It’s almost eerie:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Pjs7uoOkag

  95. Jean Henry
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    The Trump Doctrine: We’re America, Bitch! Seriously though, this seems very apt.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/06/a-senior-white-house-official-defines-the-trump-doctrine-were-america-bitch/562511/

  96. Jean Henry
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

    OIG report delayed again until Thursday– Trump’s birthday! How fitting. Will he get redemption or a lump of coal?
    For those interested in where HW gets his ‘independent’ research, google Q Anon.
    You can start here: https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/q-anon-conspiracy-june-11/

  97. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:24 pm | Permalink

    Best to just read Q Anon’s posts if you want to know about Q. There are 1,463 of them to date. Why is it going the way I said and not how you said?

  98. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:28 pm | Permalink

    Remember when I “predicted” the Kim regime will fall and Korea will be united? Sounds less “bat-shit crazy now,” huh? It’s going way more towards that then WWIII. How did I know?

  99. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 6:24 am | Permalink

    Did Korean unification happen last night and I missed it?

  100. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 6:30 am | Permalink

    Which way is the momentum going is the question.

  101. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 6:32 am | Permalink

    It sure isn’t going towards WWIII.

  102. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 7:27 am | Permalink

    “racist, anti-intellectual, conspiracy theory-loving morons ”

    Projection is real. That is a perfect description of yourself. How fuckin’ dumb are you? The avalanche is starting and you are standing there like “well, if I just dig my heels in I’ll be alright…”

  103. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 7:29 am | Permalink

    Document signed last night

    http://i.magaimg.net/img/3ijh.jpg

  104. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 7:32 am | Permalink

    No. Not right now. But other than the face to face meeting, N Korea has agreed to nothing that it hasn’t agreed to before with the US. The agreement itself is the same as already signed with South Korea a month ago.

    I appreciate that someone somewhere stopped Trump from continuing to provoke Kim Jong Un. I don’t give Trump any credit for being intentional rather than reactive in his approach. And I never ‘predicted’ WW3. I said it was a risk. I’m not an idiot who believes that foreign policy is simple and only goes in one direction or another.

  105. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 7:36 am | Permalink

    “racist, anti-intellectual, conspiracy theory-loving morons ”— who said that?
    Who are you talking to, HW?

  106. Sad
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 7:36 am | Permalink

    Watch the language HW . Try to present your beliefs in a more positive way. It might help in your attempt to spread the Trump truth.

    Korea is good. Some of this other stuff if starting to create some clouds.

    If we’re on the road to Armageddon or sliding into totalitarianism is it morally corrupt to take a summer vacation?

  107. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 7:46 am | Permalink

    Kid gloves have been off for a while, Sad!

    Haha, Jean – so the Panmunjom Declaration had nothing to do with Donald Trump! Amazing. You should try out for mental gymnastics. You are world class.

  108. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    “Who are you talking to, HW?”

    Use command F to search page for all instances of the quote.

  109. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 7:57 am | Permalink

    “someone somewhere stopped Trump from continuing to provoke Kim Jong Un”

    What universe do you live in? Cheezus you are dumb as a fuckin’ rock. NK fired ICBM’s off close to our allies and territory but it’s Trump who was doing the provoking! And someone stopped him! Hahaha, oh shit this is getting good. Double twisting backflip dismount now – GO!

  110. Sad
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 8:08 am | Permalink

    Come on HW. This is America, everyone has a right to their opinion. That’s what makes it great here.

    https://youtu.be/8mU8gDKN5sE

  111. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    Some opinions are going to be looked upon very differently in the future. They’ll have the right to stick with the CIA-informed opinion if you want but they’ll have to pretend to be sorry or people will take offense.

  112. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    stick with it if *they* want

  113. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 8:43 am | Permalink

    “The main problem in any democracy is that crowd-pleasers are generally brainless swine who can go out on a stage & whup their supporters into an orgiastic frenzy—then go back to the office & sell every one of the poor bastards down the tube for a nickel apiece.”

    -Hunter S. Thompson. 1972

  114. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    http://kuow.org/post/immigrant-moms-seatac-prison-could-hear-their-children-screaming

  115. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    Look at you evaporate on every single thing. It’s like “…ohp, lost that one, let me go to something else…ohp, lost that one too, linky link on something else time…

  116. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 10:15 am | Permalink

    It appears, as part of our slide into totalitarianism, we now have a propaganda film division of the executive branch. Our own agitki. Too bad we don’t seem to have the talent on deck that either the Naxis or the Soviets put to the task.

    HW appears to have been watching all the reels.

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/jun/12/trump-bizarre-trailer-for-the-summit-with-kim-singapore-bromance

  117. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    HW— I’m not talking about NKorea because there’s not much new there. We are in wait and see mode. you asked some questions about the family separations, I’m offering answers in form of links. You asked where those kids are being taken. In some cases they are being flown 2000 miles away to Christian foster/adoption facilities. This link has some specific detail about how the Trump administration is being ‘heroic’ (your words) in its treatment of children.

    https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/the-language-of-the-trump-administration-is-the-language-of-domestic-violence

  118. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    As dorky and awkward as that film might be, it has a positive message. How does an attempt at diplomatic solutions accompanied by a short film intended to inspire decisions toward peace and prosperity remind you of films intended to inspire Nazi genocide?

    (I know I sound naive to you.)

  119. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    Trump has been putting out awesome shorts for a while now. Try to find the one on space exploration. The grand scale of that one is reflected in this NK one also. He is a true visionary.

  120. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    Americans who go to jail have their kids become wards of the state too. Sessions just said the courts are finding fewer legitimate asylum claims. If they are defrauding the system then you have to make that a losing proposition or everyone will go the asylum route.

  121. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 11:35 am | Permalink

    You never answered how long these children are staying in foster homes.

  122. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    “You never answered how long these children are staying in foster homes.” They are still there, so how would we know how long they will be there? They are not being reunited with parents who plead guilty as promised to their lawyers. (They are being pressured to plead guilty by offering the return of their kids… ) The INS has not told families the truth up to now so whatever they are saying (and that varies a lot) is not reliable.

    PS Only 3% od children of incarcerated parents end up in foster care. Under Obama, undocumented families were not split up and unaccompanied minors who crossed illegally were released to family members, as when people go to prison. https://www.ncsl.org/documents/cyf/childrenofincarceratedparents.pdf

    What is happening now with asylum seekers is extremely unusual and completely unprecedented and unnecessary. We are due for another United Nations/Amnesty International rebuke any day now.

  123. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    “you have to make that a losing proposition or everyone will go the asylum route.”

    Somehow just not getting asylum isn’t enough deterrent. We have to commit human rights atrocities (That also leave more migrants–the kids– in the US…) Splitting up families seems a reasonable response to attempts at asylum.

    PS people don’t go through what undocumented migrants go through to get here because they are just trying to get away with something. The risks of crossing the border have to be less horrific than staying.

  124. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 1:17 pm | Permalink

    American children are more likely to have family to go to. I don’t think the mothers will be held indefinitely. To say it’s an atrocity is crazy. Oh, yeah it’s Nazi Germany because while the parents are in custody the children are being taken care of.

  125. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    “people don’t go through what undocumented migrants go through to get here because they are just trying to get away with something. The risks of crossing the border have to be less horrific than staying.”

    That’s obviously not true for many of them. The benefit of making it across to the USA is the motivator, not political persecution.

  126. Jcp2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

    Clearly Liberian Weedlord420’s family sprung fully formed from George Washington’s forehead, melanin challenged and all.

  127. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

    Melanin challenged, like we are too white? I can’t believe how widespread the racism is on this blog. It’s scary to think people like you are actually walking around THINKING you are “calling out” racists and have no idea it is a projection.

  128. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    “I can’t believe how widespread the racism is on this blog. ”

    Save the stoned white dudes! Affirmative action is KILLING THEM.

    420kushsorosgraffixbongjesterhatmomsbasement…. yo ICP

    I just ran into another stoned white dude making wild claims about North Korea. My gut tells me that it is only a matter of time before Liberian420Warlord starts making the same claims.

  129. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

    “Oh, yeah it’s Nazi Germany because while the parents are in custody the children are being taken care of.”

    Well thank the sky wizard that the 420Liberiaator Warlord isn’t the one tasked with caring for them. So it’s not so bad. Just nothing to worry about at all.

  130. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

    Check out this dank video dude, brother 420 Kim DPRK kush

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Egaxl87emio

  131. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

    I thought I told you to walk around acting like that in public. You can’t because you are scared of what would happen, aren’t you? Scared someone might **** the **** out of you. So how do you live with yourself? You are just waiting to get off of this shithole, I forgot. When that happens I hope no one cares just like you said; ambivalent at best.

  132. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

    “Save the stoned white dudes! Affirmative action is KILLING THEM.”

    Problem is I never said anything like that. I’m just shocked at your and a lot of people’s racism around here. You know that and you know I’m right. You just need to fling some shit you little shitflinger.

  133. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 2:49 pm | Permalink

    You think it is fine and not racist to hate white people. Well fuck you on behalf of all the real people everywhere.

  134. M
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    “the real people”

    I think you’ve shown your hand, HW.

  135. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

    What hand? That I think people like Iron Lung are phony as shit? That should have been obvious for a little while now.

  136. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    FF and SAD, are you feeling a need to come to the defense of poor HW again?

    Please, let him know that you agree that white people and men face constant discrimination and racism. Thank goodness Trumo is here to save the White dudes. Not the stoners though. Sessions is fucking them up. He’s even seizing their assets again. He’s not splitting up their families yet. Maybe soon. I’m not getting the impression Trump is angry at Sessions because he’s mean to white male weed-heads. Are you?

    HW: “American children are more likely to have family to go to.” Yeah, no. Please try to follow. The children are arriving WITH their family. They are then being separated from them. So quite obviously the children have family to go to. We chose to separate them.

    Pot has clearly had no impact on your reasoning capacity…

  137. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

    “Scared someone might **** the **** out of you.”

    Wow. A threat. The Mr. 420 Kushlord has threatened me.

    lol

    Check out this video dude, so dank.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29EFVFk—I

  138. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    “I think people like Iron Lung are phony as shit”

    In the 21st century version of Catcher in the Rye, Holden Caufield is a 40 something, conspiracy theory-spouting, pot haze-engulfed, Trump supporter gazing into a computer screen in his basement.

  139. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    IL– He has threatened to beat you up before. Did you forget?

  140. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    “I think people like Iron Lung are phony as shit”

    Yes, I only pretend to make fun of stoned misogynistic white dudes who spread propaganda for would be dictators and give child rapists a pass when politically convenient.

    I don’t really think that misogyny, racist autocracy and child rape are bad things.

    So phony.

    (snark)

    lol

    Check out this dank video dude

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XKNDDMU1Ns

  141. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    Hey HW– How you feeling about RBG? Screw the dank videos. This Q Anon stuff is awesome. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76BiUSEcq8E

  142. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

    “IL– He has threatened to beat you up before. Did you forget?”

    Yes, second time he has threatened me with physical violence.

    I feel safe though, he won’t be able to see me through all the pot smoke, err. “vapor”

  143. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    How is that a threat? It’s a fact that if you go around acting like that in public you are likely to get your ass beat. I’m not saying I would do it. I don’t think I said that in the past either. I assured him I wouldn’t actually.

  144. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    lol

  145. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

    The mr. 420 Kushlord is going to use his World Of Warcraft powers to “suggest” to a magic orc that he beat me senseless.

    I see that as a threat. Call the police.

  146. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

    I know I’m re-assured every time someone tells me they will resist the pressing urge to beat me up if they ever see me in public.
    I’m sure IL was too.

  147. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    The mr. 420 Liberia Kushlord’s powers of restraint know no bounds. If it weren’t for his Medical Marijuana card, so many people might be dead.

  148. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    Q Anon is awesome. That is true. A lot of people make videos on Q related topics so can’t comment on that particular one. It shouldn’t have to be said but individuals making statements on Q drops do not represent Q. You need to study the actual Q posts or you will be lost.

  149. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

    I’m also reassured when someone tells me “I thought I told you to walk around acting like that in public. You can’t because you are scared of what would happen, aren’t you? Scared someone might **** the **** out of you. ”

    I mean its so clear that the person saying something like that means no threat whatsoever. Right?

    Anyone who took that as a threat must be a crazy racist phony.

    But what do I know? I’m just a stupid bitch.

  150. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    If everything is such a big joke why don’t you act like that in real life? You can’t because of realities you are forced to deal with.

  151. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    It’s a warning and it makes a point that IL is a ridiculous troll who acts out behind the safety of a keyboard. You have said way worse about me than everything you said there, Jean. Neither of you have a leg to stand on.

  152. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    “If everything is such a big joke why don’t you act like that in real life? You can’t because of realities you are forced to deal with.”

    PHUUUUUUCK so dank, Korea Qanon Al anon dank weed woooossssshhhhhh yo

  153. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    But HW– All your posts here have mimicked Q completely. And you told us you do your own independent research and think for yourself unlike us sheeple. And you never mentioned Q all that time. Or linked to any videos that mentioned Q. So imagine my surprise when I heard about Q Anon and realized everything you’ve been spouting as the products of your careful independent research was simply a parroting of this Q stuff.

    Honorable people and devoted followers reveal their sources.

  154. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

    “It’s a warning and it makes a point that IL is a ridiculous troll who acts out behind the safety of a keyboard. ”

    Ah. It was indeed a threat.

  155. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    “So imagine my surprise when I heard about Q Anon and realized everything you’ve been spouting as the products of your careful independent research was simply a parroting of this Q stuff.”

    Like EOS, the 420 Liberia Dank Kushlord simply repeats what he is told. A good puppy.

  156. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    HW– How do you know IL doesn’t act like that in real life?

  157. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    A warning, not a threat. I’m trying to help him to get along in this world and not get hurt. It’s good advice. Obviously the lesson to draw is don’t act online like you would never act in person.

  158. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

    “A warning, not a threat. I’m trying to help him to get along in this world and not get hurt. It’s good advice. Obviously the lesson to draw is don’t act online like you would never act in person.”

    It is so obviously a threat.

    I would have no problem at all saying the same things in person to the Mr. 420 Kushlord.

  159. Jcp2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

    Liberian weedlord420 seems to be projecting his own concern for anonymity because it would detrimental to his prospects for gainful employment. I’m surprised that a person with such foresight and knowledge hasn’t already been snapped up by an up and coming local business.

  160. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

    IL is the troll?!?

    HW truly lives in the underside. or at least backwards land.

    “I know you are but what am I?!?” = 90% of HW’s self-defense.

  161. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

    I knew him a long time ago and never saw him do it then. I think he would feel like too much of a piece of shit to walk around saying things like that to stoner looking people. He would be too scared I’m sure.

  162. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

    HW has threatened me not once, not twice but three times now.

  163. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

    HW offers many lessons and much useful instruction. HW would like to teach everybody a lesson. That’s not a threat.

  164. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

    “IL is the troll?!?”

    That’s news to you? How fucking dumb are you!

  165. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    “HW has threatened me not once, not twice but three times now.”

    Oh, really? What did I say?

  166. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    I’m just a dumb bitch, HW. I dont know why you spend time here. You are so clearly superior in intellect and character.

  167. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

    “How fucking dumb are you!”

    Clearly, he has a problem with women.

  168. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

    Do you walk around calling people ‘dumb biich’ in public, HW?
    Because if so, I worry for your safety.

  169. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    “Do you walk around calling people ‘dumb biich’ in public, HW?
    Because if so, I worry for your safety.”

    Now, this was funny.

  170. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

    I never run into someone who acts like you do, Jean so I have no reason to.

  171. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

    “Clearly, he has a problem with women.”

    Clearly you are a piece of shit.

  172. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

    How is it a threat to say go around and act like that to random people and see what happens? I know it is hard but follow the logic.

  173. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    This was an enjoyable time.

  174. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    For the record, HW has threatened me three times now.

  175. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    I’m a pretty normal liberal middle aged soccer mom. I’m about to take my kid to soccer right now.
    If you never run into anyone like me out in public in the most normal, liberal, middle American soccer mom-laden county in America, you must not go outside much.

  176. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    I’m a pretty normal liberal middle aged soccer mom. I’m about to take my kid to soccer right now.
    If you never run into anyone like me out in public in the most normal, liberal, middle American soccer mom-laden county in America, you must not go outside much.

  177. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    Aww, a nice lil time for the miserable ol’ misanthrope!

  178. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    You are very, very far from normal Jean. Your mind is so twisted everything you believe is 180˚ backwards. Most people are just lost.

  179. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    “For the record, HW has threatened me three times now.”

    For the record you are a liar.

  180. Jean Henry's Son
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    Hello HW please help me, mom went to the bathroom and I snuck on her computer, I hate the liberal fucking commie agenda. I want to live with you fore you are my hero, I am a boy of very high intellect, and can be of much use in supporting your noble cause.

  181. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

    HW has threatened me three times now.

    His predilection toward paranoia, violence, threats and classic abusive behavior have been well established, particularly toward women. Further, his attempts to “out” me (thought I have never met this person and am not sure who he thinks I am) are classic controlling behavior and obviously filled with malicious intent.

    I have no other option but to assume that when he says:

    “I thought I told you to walk around acting like that in public. You can’t because you are scared of what would happen, aren’t you? Scared someone might **** the **** out of you.”

    he is threatening me.

    I ridicule him when the opportunity arises, yes, but I have never threatened him.

  182. Posted June 12, 2018 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

    I don’t have a fucking clue what any of you are talking about.

  183. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

    I think Mark stopped reading past the first ten comments on his own blog a long time ago.
    I can’t blame him.
    My son thinks HW is hysterical however.

  184. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

    It’s all a bunch of bullshit. What I say is true. People love their plants and their bud. All over the whole world they grow it. I’ve never seen someone act in real life like IL does on here and that is for a reason. It’s not going to be…popular to act like that in many, many places.

  185. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

    I’m kind of pleased that it doesn’t concern my kid that someone called his mom ‘dumb bitch.’ He figures I can handle it. And I can. He only wanted to jump in for fun.

    That’s what a feminist looks like.
    The build a Better Boy is coming along well.

  186. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

    Bullshit – you are all over this site: Iron Lung Larson. Oh, yeah, you’re IL2! You’re someone different even though you are exactly the same. Don’t be a fuckin’ moron.

  187. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 6:47 pm | Permalink

    He should have to read all the way worse things than that that you said about me before I said one thing about you.

  188. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

    HW sounds more like a 12 year old boy than my kid does.

    The kush must be the fountain of youth along with the cure for cancer, etc etc etc. it keeps HW’s mind juvenile.

  189. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

    The reality is you are so undeveloped you don’t realize how far behind you are. You think I am behind you! You don’t even know what a fallacy is. You use them all the time. That’s an undeveloped mind. No understanding of logic. It’s all rationalization.

  190. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

    I’m just another irrational dumb crazy bitch who can’t grasp basic logic.

    —Yep. Nothing even vaguely alarming about HW.

  191. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

    Again if I am all the things you say I am why are events going the way I said they would? I tell the truth and you hate it. That is what is going on. Not one thing has gone like all you people said. I love to see it. I’m going to love it even more when all your lies get crushed for good.

  192. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

    Mindless CIA minions like you are what should ring alarm bells. This place is crawling with them. You can’t even put it together at all. Your thinking is so compromised. Events will (continue to) prove it.

  193. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

    Mark doesn’t have a clue what is going on? Let me clue you in Mark: Jean feels she has found her soul mate. That is the good news. The bad news is her soulmate has displayed signs of being a pathological liar and a psychotic troll without any conscience whatsoever. The really bad news is that you might have attempted to intervene with your friend as he slid into his sociopathic ways but you apparently never bothered. The really really bad news is that Jean appears to be loyal to her man–like–supremely loyal no matter what he says or does.

    The only good thing that has come out of this is that Jean, sensing a possible love connection between kjc and her man, has, out of territorial instinct, driven kjc the fuck away very effectively–and I guess I can live with that.

    Seriously though, pick up the phone, your freind has been crying out for help, for months, maybe years.

  194. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

    “Mindless CIA minions like you are what should ring alarm bells. This place is crawling with them. You can’t even put it together at all. Your thinking is so compromised. Events will (continue to) prove it.”

    Psychotic troll indeed.

  195. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 7:41 pm | Permalink

    “It’s all a bunch of bullshit. What I say is true. People love their plants and their bud. All over the whole world they grow it. I’ve never seen someone act in real life like IL does on here and that is for a reason. It’s not going to be…popular to act like that in many, many places.”

    Doooooodddddd, fuck I love my buuuuuud woahhhhhh kind dank plants yo snoop smoke weed ever day you check out my memes

    lol

  196. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

    “Mindless CIA minions like you are what should ring alarm bells. This place is crawling with them. ”

    This is the second funniest thing I’ve seen all day.

  197. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 7:45 pm | Permalink

    It’s true. You and Jean and Mark and a whole bunch of you are mind-controlled CIA slaves and you don’t even know it. You have bought in to the entire program. They didn’t even have to MK-ULTRA you, which is what I find terrifying.

  198. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 7:48 pm | Permalink

    “It’s true. You and Jean and Mark and a whole bunch of you are mind-controlled CIA slaves and you don’t even know it. You have bought in to the entire program. They didn’t even have to MK-ULTRA you, which is what I find terrifying.”

    lol

  199. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    The guy who numbs his brain with drugs daily and read pseudo-fascist conspiracy sites claims that everyone else is being controlled.

    lol

  200. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    The 420 Mr. Kushlord is a prime example why the production and sale of marijuana should remain strongly illegal.

    If true fascism comes to the US, it will be because of the armies of stoned dudes in their basements reading Qanon posts on Reddit.

    Weed + conspiracy sites == the Fourth Reich

    lol

  201. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

    How come I have been right over and over then? What is the point of mocking the truth? Such bullshit what you say.

  202. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

    Your mind is so feeble all you can manage to do is type lol. That is pathetic.

  203. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

    lol.

  204. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 8:11 pm | Permalink

    It’s a lie too I am sure. Your spirit is too ill to laugh very much.

  205. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

    Frosted Flakes nailed it once again.

  206. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

    “It’s true. You and Jean and Mark and a whole bunch of you are mind-controlled CIA slaves and you don’t even know it. You have bought in to the entire program. They didn’t even have to MK-ULTRA you, which is what I find terrifying.”

    lol lol

  207. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

    Really, there’s no point in even ridiculing the Mr. 420DankKushliberiaWeedlord’s posts, all you have to do is copy and paste the funniest bits and let the work proceed on its own.

    “It’s true. You and Jean and Mark and a whole bunch of you are mind-controlled CIA slaves and you don’t even know it. You have bought in to the entire program. They didn’t even have to MK-ULTRA you, which is what I find terrifying.”

  208. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

    FF — After all you have read here, you still position HW as the victim of trolling?

    You still feel he deserves some defense against meanies?

    As for the rest, I think I prefer to be stereotyped as a crazy irrational bitch than a love lorn, jealous fool engaged in an Internet cat fight over a dude. You guys sure know how to hit all the notes. That’s why this is so fun for me.

    I am loyal to a fault. You got me there. It may be more that I’m a creature of habit. I do enjoy this particular virtual diner counter when it gets saucy.

  209. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

    Wait, FF, so I’m supposed to be in love with HW or IL?

    I’m super confused.

    Whatever, I want to mud wrestle with KJC.

  210. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 8:59 pm | Permalink

    And why does no one here call me JH?
    I’m unworthy of acronym?

  211. Jcp2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

    https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/58702/the-wise-king

    The problem with being a conspiracy theorist is that even if one wins, one loses.

  212. Jcp2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

    Jean Henry is close to John Henry.

  213. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

    I have been way nicer to you than you have to me, Jean. That’s what I mean: you are totally undeveloped; no self-awareness at all. Iron Lung Larson is the worst troll in the whole region for sure. No actual humor even, just ridiculous anti-social behavior.

  214. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

    “I have been way nicer to you than you have to me, Jean. ”

    “Yeah, that fuckin` dumb bitch better say thank for how nice I’ve been. ”

    I bet the Mr. 420LiberiaKushlord was a hit with the ladies.

  215. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

    I am reading about Qnon and also noticing that the Mr. Dank420KushLiberiaSnooplord has been parroting it.

    This is some ridiculously pathological stuff. You would have to be smoking weed or stupid, but preferably both, to buy into any of it.

  216. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 9:22 pm | Permalink

    I used to be fast and diligent at useful things (slicing bread, herding sheep, Slinging hash) and people would sing John Henry with Now I am fast and diligent at posting on social media.
    Somewhere I lost my way.

    I know HW Im going to be punished. And I’ll deserve it all. I’ve got it coming to me. — swoon—
    Too bad you already declared me too ugly to date.
    Shit I forgot that one.

    I’m a dumb and ugly, irrational, crazy desperate. Lovelorn, jealous, CIA tool, bitch who deserves what’s coming to her.

    I’m feeling pretty good about my life choices right now.

  217. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

    If I was to list all the shit you said about me it would be way longer than that and completely wrong too. Some of that stuff you listed there I never said. Most of it I did say after you said much worse. So so what? What do you expect someone will probably treat you like when you do nothing but attack with lies?

  218. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 9:41 pm | Permalink

    The Mr. 420Kushenstein is laughably thin skinned despite having hurled obscenities at just about everyone on this site repeatedly since he graced us with his useless presence.

  219. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 9:46 pm | Permalink

    I have no expectations of any other kind of treatment from you, HW. That would be no fun. I really enjoy it when you sling your verbal arrows at me. I mean I REALLY enjoy it. Roarrrr.

  220. Jean Henry
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

    The Q stuff was quite a revelation when I heard about it this spring. Unfortunately HW had just left our midst. But now he’s back and we can pull back the curtain on his Wizard act.

    Oh wait. Now I’m mixing up my analogies. It’s mark who is the Wizard right?

  221. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 10:02 pm | Permalink

    it is possible that the Mr. 420Dankinator actually is a 12 year old boy and cries when ridiculed, so maybe he does need the Mr. Flakes to protect him.

    The Qnon stuff is amazing. Only a complete fool would fall for that crap.

  222. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 10:17 pm | Permalink

    Jean, I don’t see HW as a victim primarily because the personal attacks against him are so blatant and expressed with such shamelessness tbat you guys just end up hurting yourselves. It is really ugly and backward behavior on your and IL’s part….

    HW has called you some bad names. A lot of things I never would have said but his attacks are coming after you guys make unnecessary personal attacks.

    (I am even boring myself as I find myself repeating the same thing I have said couple of dozen times here.)

    It is all so basic. I don’t understand why, given all of the good things you have written about the dangers of demonizing groups of people with differing beleifs; that you can’t see yourself participating in the same bad behavior you have repeatedly and eloquently critiqued others for participating in.

    You must be in love, I thought….

    Love was the only explanation I could come up with….

  223. Lucky Pierre
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 1:40 am | Permalink

    Hyberian Warlord asks “How come I have been right over and over then?”

    I have lurked here for a long time, and think there is a good explanation:

    The reason you are always right is because the nature of conspiracy theories is such that, for the true believer, they are non-falsifiable. Any evidence that appears to support the conspiracy, no matter how weak, is accepted. Any evidence that appears to contradict the conspiracy, no matter how strong, is rejected as being either misinformation or disinformation planted by the conspirators.

    You appear to be a true believer in Donald Trump, who actively encourages his followers to disbelieve traditional sources of reliable information — such as mainstream media and the scientific community — condemning any claims with which he disagrees as “fake news.” He has publicly stated his support for promoters of extreme conspiracies, such as the notorious Alex Jones.

    In other words you are always right in large part because of, and in the same way that, Donald Trump is always right. His reinforcement defends your sense of security and positive feelings about yourself, provides an explanation of self-perceived low status, and also a sense of belonging to an enlightened and superior in-group that sees through the lies of the conspirators and is not fooled like the rest of us.

    Now, sometimes you will encounter fools who are unable to perceive what you take as obvious and who may question Trump’s motives and truthfulness. Although it may be uncomfortable, it is important to try to listen to them, and listening is a part of growing.

    Truth is, Trump has proven to be quite a natural politician, and his followers would be well served to scrutinize what he says with the same vigor as they would Obama or Clinton. An independent thinker is ever skeptical. Good luck, Hyberian Warlord.

  224. Jean Henry
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 3:44 am | Permalink

    HW is not your average Trump supporter. He had expressed thinking here that rises to the level of open racism and misogyny here. I believe that. It’s not an unwarranted personal attack on my part. He is also a conspiracy theorist and that kind of thinking, which rises far beyond the realm of political perspective, is dangerous in today’s world. You may have noticed that I like to poke holes in people’s thinking. Even my own. There’s a point to that compulsion. Rigid belief systems are dangerous. I have a lot more tolerance for belief systems (even rigid ones) bound up in culture and religious faith than in belief systems (especially rigid ones) that arise from dusty corners of fhe Internet and a lack of faith in others and the systems that secure us. Beyond that, having spent some time around abusive assholes, I think I know how to ID their behavior and thinking. I see what IL and I are doing as some cheap harassment of a dangerous and pathological creep. It’s obvious to me who is actually angry and filled with resentment here. It’s obvious to me who is unable to take any ribbing or criticism and who is escalating beyond critique.

    I have said in the past that I have some special exception cases for intolerance, and that’s for anyone who peddles in open racism, sexism, fear and hate. HW hits all 4.

    You, FF, display casual racism and sexism in you thinking but not hate. And you are not too rigid and ground into your thinking even if you don’t always get the joke. You are at fairly exceptional remove from understanding real bias and bigotry and bullying, but you don’t participate in it.

    HW doesn’t scare me but he makes me want to fight dirty. I’m not going to honor his kind of dangerously bad thinking with relativism and excuse. I don’t need you to understand that but I know what I’m doing and why. When people can’t handle discourse without losing it in anger and defensiveness, and they attack and bully from their cornered position, I don’t feel any need to lay off. Some kinds of thinking are dangerous, but most arent. Those that are deserve to be rhetorically squashed into dust by any means necessary. . It’s as intellectually and morally consistent as I need it to be.

    If you want to know why I bother, where the source of my persistence lies, it has more to do with being intimately familiar with patterns of abuse than a schoolgirl crush.

    HW is a special exception case. He is intellectually bankrupt and racist and not just sexist, but misogynistic. He deserves a thorough verbal pummeling each time he shows up here to dominate discourse and hurl invective.

    You justify his anger as a response to IL and I. I don’t feel a need to. His anger was present from his first posts. And obvious to me. This all started because HW couldn’t handle simple counter argument without throwing a fit.

    I can see that when people are highly sensitive you feel a need to protect them. I know that highly sensitive people with no demonstrated empathy are often reactive abusers. I don’t think HW warrants your defense. And just to be clear, I don’t want or need defense from you or anyone, nor do I think IL wants or needs defense from me or anyone.

  225. EOS
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 6:40 am | Permalink

    Jean,
    Many of us would prefer not to constantly read your judgements concerning who is racist, sexist, etc. Is it possible for you to comment only on the topics being discussed without the incessant character assassinations? Could you try to focus your comments on what is said, not who said it? Robert did bring back fond memories of a blog that had civil disagreements and lively discussion of relevant issues. Yeah, I’m kinda wishing for the good ‘ol days.

  226. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 6:48 am | Permalink

    Jean,

    IL was your soulmate in my joke not HW.

    Apparently nobody here is going to change your mind on how to treat your “special cases” on mm.com…..I’m giving up on it for now….Can you give concrete examples of me expressing casual racism and sexism?

  227. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 7:36 am | Permalink

    My post history is right here on the sitet and it proves you wrong, Jean. I had a kid gloves policy towards everyone when I started posting here. I refrained from responding to (the many) personal attacks. You decided I was all that shit you say because I maintained Clinton was far more corrupt than Trump. That’s it in a nutshell. You hate me because I voted for Trump. To you Trump is racist and sexist so anyone who votes for him must be the same. But you display racism and sexism constantly! You think people are defined first and foremost by their color and gender. You think people of certain colors can’t be racist and women can’t be sexist. That’s racist and sexist! It’s extremely obvious.

  228. Jean Henry
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    EOS — I think your worldview is racist. I’m not going to take directives from you on when to call someone’s perspective racist or not.
    We live in a racist society and culture. Itsour primary cultural disease. I’m not going to stop talking about it.

    I don’t think All Trump supporters are racist. I think they all engage with abd legitimize racist ideas. I think most Dems do too.

    Like I said, a cultural and systemic disease. Sometimes, but less often, a personal disease of perspective. White nationalism is dangerous. As are m men’s rights’ groups. Those are special exceptions.

    I’m sure you have things that you can’t tolerate because they offend your core principles.

    Same deal here.

    FF — I have pointed up whenbyou have been sexist and racist. Sorry you missed it. Not revisiting.

    I think reviewing the Charlottesville posts should provide what you seek.

  229. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 7:54 am | Permalink

    Since you like Q here is a relevant bit from one of last night’s posts:

    “PEOPLE RESPOND TO LOGIC/FACTS.
    PEOPLE SLEEPING ATTACH TO OPINION/PERSONALITY/GROUP THINK.”

    You are most definitely deeply asleep, Jean.

  230. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 8:01 am | Permalink

    Jean,

    It seems like you forget things that happen and “remember” things that did not.

    An easy fix for that type of problem is to follow EOS’s advice.

  231. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 8:10 am | Permalink

    Heavily redacted report tomorrow
    Trump E.O. to unredact
    SHTF

  232. Jean Henry
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    My Republican friends— Given that POC represent the fastest growing segment of the US population, given that the vast majority of POC are religious, social conservatives, highly suspicious of government, pro-military, and not especially concerned with (and sometimes antagonistic towards) women’s and LGBTQ rights and that they are. Y and large aspirational and anti-communist. Given that the GOP is the party of Lincoln with a long abolitionist history, while the Dems have an equally long history of open racism. Please ask yourselves why it is that you can attract only such miserable numbers of minority support year after year? I suggest you start getting comfortable talking about racism. I also suggest you reconsider your commitment to the issues that impact cities and look closely at which of your policies most negatively impact the day to Day lives of POC.
    Yours, Jean

  233. Jean Henry
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 8:57 am | Permalink

    “You are most definitely deeply asleep, Jean.”
    I would like to be. I didn’t sleep well last night. No doubt I have subconscious anxiety about that OIG report, redacted or not…

    I mean how can I sleep when I know that on June 14th my whole world view will shift, what was Black will be White, and the curtain will be pulled back on reality? I mean unless that date is moved again. I wonder if there will be a rapture in Trumps birthday too. Or maybe the faithful will be called up to join their comrades on Hale Bop at last.

  234. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 8:59 am | Permalink

    If you voted for Trump you voted for white supremacy. There’s no way around it. It is irrelevant whether one considers themselves a racist or not, you voted for a candidate who ran on a platform of white supremacy so by that definition, you support and enable racism.

    If you simply didn’t like Hillary Clinton, you could have voted for someone else… but you did not. You voted for David Duke’s candidate, the racist, misogynist, corrupt pussy grabber.

    And thus, the 420FuckthoseDumbBitchesWhiteLivesMatterKushlord, EOIdowhatIamtoldbyFoxNewsS and Frosted “white supremacists are people too!” Flakes should be given no peaceful moment in the comments section of a local bl0g.

  235. Jean Henry
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 9:09 am | Permalink

    I disagree with IL about All Trump voters.
    I think many are not any more bigoted or racist than most Dems. They were simply fooled by a clever populist.

    I do think Trump is an old school racist misogynist white nationalist. More a madmen era amoral type than a social conservative. He is also clearly an unstable, reactive, megalomaniac.

    Most of his supporters aren’t half bad though. They are loyal and they help folks out. They were fooled (like many Dens) into thinking their party had their back. Now they have been fooled that a guy seeking to destroy their party has their back. Dems were almost fooled by someone like that too. I don’t think either group of voters is better than the other. I do think one party is better than the other by leagues. I also think one candidate was better than the others by leagues.

    No matter. Every party and every candidate should be subject to strict scrutiny and relentless critique.

    Just doing my civic duty.

  236. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    I do not share Ms. Henry’s opinion that people who voted for Trump are just nice humble people who voted Republican because they wanted lower taxes.

    People who voted for trump voted for white supremacy. That’s what he ran on and that’s what they voted for. It is irrelevant whether they believe themselves to be racists or not. Clearly, given that they knew exactly what they were voting for, they are morally flawed and deserving of absolutely no respect or peace.

    Fuck them.

  237. Jean Henry
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    FF— that was for you. maybe you will be relieved to see that I am capable of opinion distinct from IL’s.
    Shocking, I know.
    Usually I’m such a Fawning, doe-eyed school girl.

  238. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    “I think many are not any more bigoted or racist than most Dems.”

    This is irrelevant. They knowingly voted for a candidate who ran on a platform of white supremacy.

  239. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    “Most of his supporters aren’t half bad though. They are loyal and they help folks out. ”

    No, they are scum. They voted for a guy who ran on a platform of not helping non-white people out.

    So, fuck them. I could care less if they bring a coffee cake to the bake sale. They were the people who would have been bringing the cookies to the lynching.

  240. Jean Henry
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    IL— do you believe Trump voters to be more racist than Dem voters?

  241. Jean Henry
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    The people bringing cookies to a lunching would have been Dems, IL.

    (I actually prefer it when we disagree…)

  242. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 9:31 am | Permalink

    “The people bringing cookies to a lunching would have been Dems, IL.”

    “IL— do you believe Trump voters to be more racist than Dem voters?”

    Both are irrelevant. Absolutely irrelevant. Democratic voters did not vote for a candidate who ran unapologetically on a platform of white supremacy.

    Ms. Henry seems to suffering from a case of “whataboutitism” or at least seems to feel it necessary to defend the rights of dumb white people who voted for Donald Trump.

  243. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    Ms. Henry seems to believe that the failings of one group necessarily shield the other from criticism.

    Classicly disappointing.

  244. Frosted Flakes
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 9:43 am | Permalink

    Your BFF does not need to be challenged in a good old fashioned debate, Jean. Your BFF needs professional help. Do what you can to not enable him. If you can intervene on a personal level, then please do. If you can encourage Mark or one of his other friends to intervene then that would be a good thing. As far as I can tell FF, HW, and EOS are the best friends he has here because we are the only ones willing to be truthful with him.

    Many of us have genuine concern. It is not an attempt on my part to offer a passive aggressive personal attack against IL. I am talking sincerely here…. I am not in a position to reach out to him….I would reach out if I was in a better position…

  245. Jean Henry
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 9:46 am | Permalink

    IL— I see a lot of open bigotry and fear towards Trump voters among white liberals. I’m not trying to put forward a false equivalence. I just don’t think Dems are any better and they seem to be using not voting for Trump as a shield to justify their own class bias and fear and to defend against examining their own racism.

    Spend some time talking to a white liberal about the problems with ‘identity politics’ and get back to me. Remember the tears being shed here for the White Working Class— as distinct from the working class as a whole?

    Listening to people with race and class bias talk about how much they hate and despise Trump voters gets old.

  246. Jean Henry
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    FF — you are woefully incapable of recognizing critique of your sexism. Perhaps I was too oblique. I was NOT in fact arguing with IL for your sake. (That was sarcasm…) We both like discourse. Has nothing to do with you or your paternalistic bullshit.

    If IL needs help from his friends, he’ll let them know. Your relentlessly condescending expressions of concern are not necessary and are very clearly motivated by something other than compassion. Let it go.

  247. EOS
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    FF,

    She can’t point to a single racist or sexist post by either of us.

    IL,
    If we didn’t want Hilliary, voting for anyone else besides Trump would only have benefited her. I vote 3rd party all the time, but I didn’t risk it with her at the top of the ticket.

  248. stupid hick
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 10:50 am | Permalink

    Lucky Pierre:

    “Hyberian Warlord asks “How come I have been right over and over then?””….

    “because the nature of conspiracy theories is such that, for the true believer, they are non-falsifiable.”….

    “Donald Trump, who actively encourages his followers to disbelieve traditional sources of reliable information”…

    “Truth is, Trump has proven to be quite a natural politician, and his followers would be well served to scrutinize what he says with the same vigor as they would Obama or Clinton. An independent thinker is ever skeptical. Good luck, Hyberian Warlord.”

    Exactly what I was thinking.

  249. Kit
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    One of the best things I heard about Trump’s discussion with Merkel.

    Trump told Merkel that he didn’t want them “sending cars to the USA” anymore. Merkel responded by informing him that most German cars are built in the USA.

    I have not confirmed this.

  250. Lynne
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

    It is true that major German car companies have plants in the USA. VW has one in Tennessee, BMW has one in S. Carolina. Mercedes has one in Alabama. I think a lot of the VWs come from Mexico though. Regardless, it probably is true that a significant if not most German brand autos are assembled in N. America.

  251. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    ““because the nature of conspiracy theories is such that, for the true believer, they are non-falsifiable.”

    That has no relevance to anything I’ve said. I said how a whole bunch of things that can be checked later would turn out and so far none of it has proven wrong and much of it is correct.

    Flynn, Manafort, Papadopolous, Kushner and on and on haven’t flipped because there is nothing to flip about. Stormy yielded nothing. Trump is still in office. Hollywood is fucked. North Korea is on the road to peace (!!!) The economy has improved. Unemployment is down. ISIS has lost their strongholds. No surge in white supremacy. Likewise Antifa has fizzled. The violent clashes of 2016 and 21017 have for the most part evaporated from what I’ve seen. Human traffickers are increasingly being prosecuted and children are being saved.

  252. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

    No matter the politics, I would take Hillary over a white supremacist any day, given that white supremacy (or white nationalism or whatever you want to call it) encourages ethnic cleansing.

    If one voted for Trump, one is saying that white supremacy and by extension, ethnic cleansing, is acceptable.

    I would rather not vote at all. Clearly, though, Trump voters are either so stupid as to not understand the implications of his platform, or morally flawed, or both, really.

    Thus, I am uninterested in how “helpful” they are (who cares?), or what Democrats do or do not do. Those two points are irrelevant. Trump voters voted for white supremacy and ethnic cleansing.

  253. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    You never ever figured out the difference between opinion and fact, Iron Lung. How do you figure Trump is white supremacist? You think building a border wall is proof? You’re a total moron.

  254. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    Trump is a white supremacist so voting for him is a vote for ethnic cleansing. It’s so dumb it hurts. Just how could anyone be this stupid?

  255. University of Michigan research
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    U-M study finds that people who claim their views are superior to other viewpoints are especially prone to overestimating what they actually know.

    #URecord

    http://myumi.ch/J7grZ

  256. Sad
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

    That’s fer sure!

  257. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    Only problem is some people’s viewpoints turn out to be true and some turn out false.

  258. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    President Trump is quite proud of record low minority unemployment for a white supremacist. He pardons African Americans, has them over to the White House and Trump Tower…I don’t see what the openly racist people here see.

  259. Jean Henry
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    “In other words, when a belief is strongly held, is tied to one’s identity or values, or is held with a sense of moral conviction, people are more likely to distance themselves from information and people that challenge their belief.“
    Yes. I have said over and over that the idea that one is ‘good’ and Others are ‘bad’ because of their political beliefs is the core barrier to political progress, especially on the left.

    On the other hand, white nationalism and racist thinking needs to be addressed head on and with conviction. It’s something I’d be happy to be wrong about but I’m not taking any chances.

    Lastly, some people do know more about some subject areas than others. Most ‘exoerts’ Do not speak with certainty about issues. They point up the countering information available. Sometimes people view information that disrupts their perception of reality upsetting. Those are the people this article addresses, not people who have bothered to inform themselves deeply about the complexity of an issue.

    And underinformed relativism is also a means to confirmation bias. It’s less righteous, but still a potent form of denial.

  260. Jean Henry's Son
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH-wCe5oAv8

  261. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

    “Yes. I have said over and over that the idea that one is ‘good’ and Others are ‘bad’ because of their politics…”

    Then what are you doing? You are self-contradictory. You hate me because I voted for Trump. Trump is doing awesome but to you it’s Nazi Germany. Batshit crazy all the way.

  262. Jean Henry
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

    I dont hate you HW. I feel sorry for you and I worry about those in your life. because of your volatility and anger and righteousness. I don’t hate Trump voters; that’s IL. I know and like a lot of Trumo voters. They would not like you much though. they’d probably find you more amusing than threatening. I do hate Trump.

    I know I am self-contradictory. Humans are. I’m harder on myself than I am on others, if that’s any consolation, but I also no that the nature of being human is being hypocritical. We are paradoxes. I’m political and some times politics is brutal by my aim is always to prevent further harm. I know you feel the same way about your perspective. We just disagree completely about how to achieve that.

  263. Jean Henry
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

    Oops. I posted with my kids name, because I switched computers . And it’s awaiting moderation. Mark if you can fix that I’d appreciate it.

  264. Posted June 13, 2018 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    I think I switched the right one, Jean. Let me know if I didn’t.

  265. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 7:51 pm | Permalink

    That’s funny because I feel sorry for you and yours, Jean. You are mentally ill. You and Iron Lung have it the worst out of all the people here.

  266. Jean Henry
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

    I’m pretty ok with being the worst and mentally ill in your view HW. That sits easy with me.

  267. Jean Henry
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

    “The World Values Survey data used is from the period 1995 to 2011 — well before Donald Trump’s 2016 run for president. It suggests, though, that Trump’s bigotry and his authoritarianism are not separate problems, but are intertwined. When Trump calls Mexicans “rapists,” and when he praises authoritarian leaders, he is appealing to the same voters.

    Miller and Davis’ paper quotes alt right, neo-fascist leader Richard Spencer, who in a 2013 speech declared: “We need an ethno-state so that our people can ‘come home again’… We must give up the false dreams of equality and democracy.” Ethnic cleansing is impossible as long as marginalized people have enough votes to stop it. But this roadblock disappears if you get rid of democracy. Spencer understands that white rule in the current era essentially requires totalitarianism. That’s the logic of fascism.”

    https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-effect-new-study-connects-white-american-intolerance-support-authoritarianism-ncna877886

  268. iRobert
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

    I’ve always assumed that we each feel deeply sorry for everyone else who comments on this blog. That’s sort of a given, isn’t it? I mean it’s obvious we all have a problem.

    Most of all, I feel sorry for Mark. I think he wants us to read his articles, and maybe comment on the topics he brings up. He’s always been a dreamer.

  269. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 8:28 pm | Permalink

    Good, because you are going to keep finding out more and more I am right. Just look at your own posts. Kid gloves remember? You heaped tremendous abuse on me long before I ever said anything personal about you.

  270. Jean Henry
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

    ‘Orwell was right. The totalitarian regime rests on lies because they are lies. The subject of the totalitarian regime must accept them not as truth—must not, in fact, believe them—but accept them both as lies and as the only available reality. She must believe nothing. Just as Orwell predicted, over time the totalitarian regime destroys the very concept, the very possibility of truth. Hannah Arendt identified this as one of the effects of totalitarian propaganda: it makes everything conceivable because “nothing is true.””

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/how-george-orwell-predicted-the-challenge-of-writing-today

    iRobert– it doesn’t matter what anyone thinks of the others. We’re all just here on the same little bus. What we write here is largely unseen. Its a little salon. I dont think it matters one bit if we stay on topic. If you dont get anything rewarding from the changes here, there’s no reason to be here at all.

  271. iRobert
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 8:39 pm | Permalink

    Did you read what Jean said, Mark?

    “…What we write here is largely unseen. Its a little salon. I dont think it matters one bit if we stay on topic. If you dont get anything rewarding from the changes here, there’s no reason to be here at all.”

    She’s trying to be polite by pretending to direct that toward me, but I think we both know she was really speaking to. She’s asking you to leave, Mark. Take a hint.

    She even admits she destroyed your traffic to this site. That was an unexpected admission.

  272. iRobert
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

    I use the pronoun “she” because that’s just one way to get under the skin of any arrogant French guy like Jean Henry. Those scrawny guys always hate that.

  273. iRobert
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    Don’t be alarmed, Mark. But it is best to be careful with them bunny-boilers.

    My advice to you is to remain calm, act like everything is fine, don’t make any sudden moves, and just back away from this blog slowly.

  274. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

    Your CIA political operatives are who destroy the truth, Jean. Look at Rod Rosenstein. Now he is in trouble for threatening House staffers who are trying to get him to hand over the documents he has refused to provide Congress. A whoooole lot more of your lies are going to be exposed with the IG report and much more to come. Nothing you have said has come true but a lot of what I have said has. Yet you tried to savage me over all those different things! That tells the story. Turns out it’s crazy to try to make a sane person look crazy.

  275. iRobert
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 9:11 pm | Permalink

    Try to be more sensitive toward Mark, Jean. He’s just having a difficult time accepting that he’s irrelevant here on this blog. It’s tough for him to let go. It doesn’t help that his name is the address of the site. But I think he’ll come around eventually. Just be a little more patient with him. The rest of us are already on board. We have been for months.

  276. Jean Henry
    Posted June 13, 2018 at 9:28 pm | Permalink

    iRobert– I have left this site for chunks of time. I didn’t see much more activity or breadth of engagement. I would love to be chatting with more people here. I would even step aside and just read if I could do so and read a true diversity of opinions. Make it happen.

  277. iRobert
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 4:53 am | Permalink

    You really shouldn’t take any breaks from posting here. By doing that, you’ve just given Mark the impression that he might get his blog back. Besides, things are different now. They’ve changed. The days of thoughtful conversation are over. People who were raised that way are all retiring and dying.

    If you want to chat with more people, you’ll need to get with the program and fashion your communication to always sound more like a social media infomercial.

    Please don’t do that here though. I prefer what you’re doing already. I’ve been trying to get people to turn on Mark for years.

    There is no “diversity of opinions.” There are only two sets of opinions; the one in power and the one complaining about it. That may be reduced to one soon, though.

    You don’t really want me to step into your role here. I’ve already explained to you, I’m an ultra-sexist, ultra-racist, ultra-homophobic, and very proud of it and committed to staying that way. You’d hate having to read a bunch of that every day.

  278. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    HYUUUGE day!!!

    Happy Birthday President Donald J. Trump.

  279. iRobert
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 8:52 am | Permalink

    I didn’t realize it was Trump’s birthday. What is he, like 97 or something?

  280. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 10:03 am | Permalink

    I do not at all understand why people become enamored with politicians. Though I have voted for many politicians, I could care less when their birthday is, any more than I’d care about the birthdays of the people who work at the DMV. Who cares?

    Only a true fool , a true simpleton, would celebrate a politicians birthday.

  281. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    Trump is the anti-politician. Politics is about to get cleaned up. Latest Q from last night; do you think you have the brains to understand it?

    3 2018 22:50:25 (EST)
    POTUS in possession of (and reviewing):
    1. Original IG unredacted report
    2. Modified IG unredacted report [RR version]
    3. Modified IG redacted report [RR version]
    4. IG summary notes re: obstruction(s) to obtain select info (classified)
    [#3 released tomorrow]
    [SEC: FBI/DOJ handling of HRC email investigation]
    [[RR]]
    Who has the sole ability to DECLAS it all?
    Did you witness the stage being set today?
    Nunes/Grassley/Freedom C. push for docs.
    [[RR]] central figure within docs (personally involved).
    KNOWN CONFLICT.
    Immediate impeachment / resignation / termination / recusal IF EVER BROUGHT TO LIGHT.
    Be loud.
    Be heard.
    Fight for TRUTH.
    Q

  282. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    *Jun 13 2018 22:50:25 (EST)*

  283. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    Holy shit the sky is a beautiful blue today!

  284. Jean Henry
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 11:35 am | Permalink

    Everything I’m hearing says those 500 pages in the OIG report are non partisan and basically signal ineptitude in managing inherently political investigations. Ineptitude that offered more favors to Trump than otherwise.

    I’m not hearing anything about pending indictments beyond McCabe which we already knew about.

    Of course, handily enough, HW can always Blame deep state interference if things don’t go his way.

    No mind shift so far. Definitely no rapture in which Hillary, Comey we all are hauled off in hand cuffs. Sorry. Maybe next time.

  285. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 11:49 am | Permalink

    What you are hearing about which version? #3 you think?

  286. Jean Henry
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 11:53 am | Permalink

    Oh man it’s already starting. The denial and evasions and accusations of corruption on the right. And it hasn’t even been released to the public yet. This is fun. They are turning on OIG Horowitz like rabid dogs. The deep state keeps interfering and making them seem wrong, but they’ve invested so much in this report. They can’t possibly be wrong. All that is required is some fast back peddling and few knives in backs and a little redirect. Go team Q, Go!

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/06/the-reckoning-facing-the-fbi/562685/

  287. Anonymous
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    HW, I’d like my nothingburger with extra pickles. Thanks.

  288. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

    I told you all along it will be a series of hits on the deep state of increasing seriousness. This is only part of the IG report. Does the name Huber ring a bell? You said the FISA memo was a nothingburger but look what happened. McCabe did indeed get fired and other people got demoted and put under investigation. Now it is part of the IG report. You betting against Q that DJT will declassify and release an unredacted version?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJma9x2Tlrw

  289. Jean Henry
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

    I’m betting that with or without the redacted information in it, we will still be eating a Nothing burger.

    It will be fun to watch you wiggle, twist and squirm to get yourself through the tiny space you allowed yourself to get out of your hyper-confident predictions over the past 9 months.

    Where’s the popcorn? I’m kind of busy so if someone else could needle and poke HW into unconscious self revelation that would be cool.

  290. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    Hell no. This train is only starting to really get moving. You are getting routed I guarantee.

  291. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

    You were wrong last time so what makes you think you will be right this time? You’re in trouble, Jean. You couldn’t imagine I was serious when I said everything you every said will be proven wrong. That’s already been happening but now it’s going to increase.

  292. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    ever said

  293. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

    Strzok: “We are going to stop Trump.”

    What did you say about that? Oh, it was a Conspiracy Theory! That’s right. A conspiracy theory that turned out to be true. Huh!

  294. CNBC's John Harwood
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    To sum up: Justice Dept Inspector General concluded that bias did NOT affect Clinton email investigation, that FBI had PROPER reasons for declining to prosecute her, and that the only improper actions influencing 2016 election were actions that damaged Clinton, not Trump.

    https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/1007328693621084161

  295. Iron lung
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 2:44 pm | Permalink

    Who gives a fuck if someones “predictions” are right or wrong?

    Maybe in 420dank world you get a cash prize or something.

    In reality, no one at all cares. All alone is Kushland.

  296. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    If you don’t give a fuck then why don’t you shut your ass up about everything I say? You don’t give a fuck about anything so why are you even still in this “shithole” of a world? What is your reason for going on? So you can type lol and 420? Very meaningful existence there.

  297. Sad
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

    Time for a wrestling match to settle this once and for all!

  298. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

    I think if someone hates someone else as much as Iron Lung hates me then he should do something about it. Don’t just burn up in anger – turn it into something productive. Teach someone like me a lesson face to face.

    Oh SHIT!!!

    Strzok’s texts and actions are “not only indicative of a biased state of mind but, even more seriously, implies a willingness to take official action to impact the presidential candidate’s electoral prospects.”

  299. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

    Comey insubordinate and violated FBI norms

  300. Jean Henry
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

    Stroyk was a minor actor who had no capacity to influence elections but violated FBI protocol by expressing strong partisan opinion in a private text. A lot like the DNC emails. Not terribly shocking. He was fired aged ago.

    Coney overstepped his bounds to benefit Trump and hurt Clinton. It’s unlikely this was intentional.

    That’s pretty much the whole deal.

    Not anything HW predicted has come true. Indeed I learned today that the OIG has no capacity to indict. They can criticize behavior as against protocol that is still very legal. There will be no handcuffs. Sorry HW. You were wrong.

    Skipping back and forth between MSNBC and FOX now. Fascinating.

  301. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

    Five FBI agents referred for investigation

  302. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 8:19 pm | Permalink

    Wrong

    “Strzok was the Chief of the Counterespionage Section during the FBI’s investigation into Hillary Clinton’s use of a personal email server. Strzok rose to become the Deputy Assistant Director of the Counterintelligence Division, which is the number two position in that division, and led the FBI’s investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections.”

    How could Comey have helped Trump by doing what he had to do? If he didn’t re-open the Clinton investigation he would be in trouble for covering it up. He helped Hillary with the fixed exoneration.

  303. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 8:28 pm | Permalink

    Burn

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en1uwIzI3SE

  304. Jean Henry
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

    “to sum up[OIG Report]: Justice Dept Inspector General concluded that bias did NOT affect Clinton email investigation, that FBI had PROPER reasons for declining to prosecute her, and that the only improper actions influencing 2016 election were actions that damaged Clinton, not Trump.”

  305. Jean Henry
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 8:42 pm | Permalink

    From the OIG
    “III. The Department’s Declination Decision on July 6
    Following Comey’s public statement on July 5, the Midyear prosecutors finalized their recommendation that the Department decline prosecution of Clinton, her senior aides, and the senders of emails determined to contain classified information. On July 6, the Midyear prosecutors briefed Lynch, Yates, Comey, other members of Department and FBI leadership, and FBI Midyear team members about the basis for the declination recommendation. Lynch subsequently issued a short public statement that she met with the career prosecutors and agents who conducted the investigation and “received and accepted their unanimous recommendation” that the investigation be closed without charges.
    We found that the prosecutors considered five federal statutes:
    9
     18 U.S.C. §§ 793(d) and (e) (willful mishandling of documents or information relating to the national defense);
     18 U.S.C. § 793(f) (removal, loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction of documents or information relating to the national defense through gross negligence, or failure to report such removal, loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction);
     18 U.S.C. § 1924 (unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material by government employees); and
     18 U.S.C. § 2071 (concealment, removal, or mutilation of government records).
    As described in Chapter Seven of our report, the prosecutors concluded that the evidence did not support prosecution under any of these statutes for various reasons, including that former Secretary Clinton and her senior aides lacked the intent to communicate classified information on unclassified systems. Critical to their conclusion was that the emails in question lacked proper classification markings, that the senders often refrained from using specific classified facts or terms in emails and worded emails carefully in an attempt to “talk around” classified information, that the emails were sent to other government officials in furtherance of their official duties, and that former Secretary Clinton relied on the judgment of State Department employees to properly handle classified information, among other facts.
    We further found that the statute that required the most complex analysis by the prosecutors was Section 793(f)(1), the “gross negligence” provision that has been the focus of much of the criticism of the declination decision. As we describe in Chapters Two and Seven of our report, the prosecutors analyzed the legislative history of Section 793(f)(1), relevant case law, and the Department’s prior interpretation of the statute. They concluded that Section 793(f)(1) likely required a state of mind that was “so gross as to almost suggest deliberate intention,” criminally reckless, or “something that falls just short of being willful,” as well as evidence that the individuals who sent emails containing classified information “knowingly” included or transferred such information onto unclassified systems.
    The Midyear team concluded that such proof was lacking. We found that this interpretation of Section 793(f)(1) was consistent with the Department’s historical approach in prior cases under different leadership, including in the 2008 decision not to prosecute former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales for mishandling classified documents.
    We analyzed the Department’s declination decision according to the same analytical standard that we applied to other decisions made during the investigation. We did not substitute the OIG’s judgment for the judgments made by the Department, but rather sought to determine whether the decision was based on improper considerations, including political bias. We found no evidence that the conclusions by the prosecutors were affected by bias or other improper considerations; rather, we determined that they were based on the prosecutors’ assessment of the facts, the law, and past Department practice.
    We therefore concluded that these were legal and policy judgments involving core prosecutorial discretion that were for the Department to make.”

    Bummer dude. No handcuffs for Hillary.
    Trump’s foundation, on the other hand. Bet the NY AG will hand down more indictments that anything coming from this OIG report.

  306. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

    Which part are they referring to, the part written by DOJ people? Look at the details in the actual report not the summary like the person who tweeted that.

  307. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

    So she was a hair away from being busted but they just didn’t have that one little extra hair of evidence. How did that get calculated exactly? Oh, she’s alllmost at the tipping point but not quite. We need another microgram of guilt!

  308. Jean Henry
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 9:26 pm | Permalink

    No. HW. That’s not how to reads at all. There’s no evidence of illegality at all. They have spent 30 years trying to nail the woman and have still come up with nothing.

    Talk to you in a year or so when Trump gets indicted.

  309. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 9:36 pm | Permalink

    All the evidence needed is right in the whole world’s face. They smashed their equipment and destroyed subpoenaed records. That alone is enough to put her away.

  310. Jean Henry
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 9:36 pm | Permalink

    https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/1007376361101582336

  311. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 9:42 pm | Permalink

    She should have been on trial before the election started for what she did. The IG report says a foreign actor hacked her server. Obama did know because he emailed her. Obama knew which belies what he said which is that he learned about the server on the news!

  312. Jean Henry
    Posted June 14, 2018 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

    HW– your outrage over Hillary’s emails and lack of any concern about all the Trump malfeasance is all anyone needs to know about the soundness of your thinking and validity of your points.

    Can you admit no disappointment at the OIG report outcome?

  313. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 6:38 am | Permalink

    Trump malfeasance? Like what? You are still on the Russia sauce? All anyone needs to know? Are you out of your mind? The Clinton’s ran a major crime racket out of D.C.

  314. Jean Henry
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 8:43 am | Permalink

    https://twitter.com/lionel_trolling/status/1007326176367476736?s=21

  315. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    Hillary Clinton no longer matters. She is not President. She is not a Senator. She is not Secretary of State. She has no power.

    Who cares?

  316. M
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    Hillary Clinton is the MS13 of white women. #RepublicanBoogeymen

  317. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 9:39 am | Permalink

    I already countered that sentiment, “2.” It doesn’t matter if you think she is relevant or not. Americans are supposed to be treated equally under the law. She blatantly violated the law as Secretary of State. She sold influence through the Clinton Foundation. It’s total corruption. You want her to get a pass for what? It’s just “It was in the past…let it go…”

  318. Jean Henry
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    I’m more concerned with the current corruption. I don’t see a double standard btw. I see a country desperately trying to hold on to any standards at all. Defending Trump or Hillary without evidence, based on political agenda, Loosen’s our grip on any national ethical governance standards.
    This is the kind of result that follows.
    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/06/05/world/americas/us-un-migrant-children-families.html

  319. John Brown
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 9:57 am | Permalink

    HW, “Russian Sauce” is what I’m gonna call the blood of traitors. I’m with this guy.

    https://twitter.com/c_a_charbonneau

  320. Jean Henry
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 10:01 am | Permalink

    As for why I brought up Hillary, IL, it was not to randomly visit old news. A 500 page report examining investigations against her was released. A report that many on the right were certain would confirm their narrative instead exonerated her completely. The report didn’t and doesn’t matter much to left. We knew this stuff. But it mattered to the right. And they had their asses handed to them. Again.
    When the OIG report on the Russia investigation comes out I’m sure we’ll all be more interested.
    I’m not defending HRC; she needs none. HE asked me to show him when he’s ever been proven wrong. 500 pages of wrong was just released.

  321. Jean Henry
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    ‘Americans are supposed to be treated equally under the law.’ Ha! Maybe remind president —I can pardon myself—Trump of that.

    Your double standard is showing again HW.

  322. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    The IG report destroys the obstruction of justice angle that you people have been pushing. Comey did his job wrong. He sat on the Clinton emails found on Anthony Weiner’s laptop for months. Finally he revealed that there was new evidence ten days before the election. It’s not Trump’s fault he slowpoked it and finally did it because he had to. What is actually on that laptop I wonder? Who in Washington has seen it?

  323. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 10:21 am | Permalink

    He also said there would be no need to do that since he has done nothing illegal. I don’t know if the presidential pardon applies to the president or not. It’s a broad power so I would not be surprised. I don’t see how that situation could even happen since sitting presidents can’t be indicted. They have to be impeached.

  324. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 11:07 am | Permalink

    ” I don’t know if the presidential pardon applies to the president or not.”

    The 420Kushlord can’t even be bothered to do any reading on the subject.

    lol

  325. Jean Henry
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    HW— Trump can not be indicted on Federal Charges. He can however be indicted on State charges, which is why Mueller brought in the NY AG early on. And why you should be paying attention to the charges against the Trump foundation and any other NY state charges to follow.

    Ps the President can’t pardon himself for state charges either. Governors do that.

  326. Jean Henry
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    Also should a president be impeached and removed from office or resign like Nixon, he is them fair game for indictment for any illegal activity during his time in office. This is why Ford pardoned Nixon.

    I look forward to Trump’s perp walk.

  327. Jcp2
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

    Trump or no Trump, I think Liberian Edgelord 420 would have issues with whoever he feels wrongs him. There’s always going to be alphas and betas, and in any social scenario, he would be relegated to a delta or gamma. Even in Trumpland. Hence his constant desire to be right and have everybody else be put in their place. Why else would an anonymous poster(s) be offended that their non important reputation be besmirched? Why so angry here? Why not IRL?

  328. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

    Jesus Christ you are fucked. All of you! I’ve never seen such a cesspit on the web and that is saying a LOT!!! To think people like you are actually walking around in my own town. You are so stupid it’s scary. It is terrifying actually. Unnamable creatures slithering around under the rocks and shit…

  329. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    No obstruction of justice for sure now. You have to eat it. If you trolled me for saying so in the past you have to eat it. You have to say “I was wrong. Hyborian Warlord is not a blah blah blah for saying there is no obstruction of justice.” Yup. That’s what you have to say.

  330. Jcp2
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

    Temper, temper! It should be easy for anons not to be offended by other anons. There are no harmed entities here, unless you know who they really are. You, of all people, should know that it’s not possible to harm a fictional entity.

  331. Jean Henry
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

    Ha! That’s quite the demonstration of superior intelligence HW.

    Here is some reading for you. Three links to follow covering the complexity of the Stage v Federal indictment and pardon issues, as well as a decent summary of the process from indictment to impeachment in office and then to trial post presidency. I’m sure we’ll all become more familiar with this process in the next few years. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/07/no_matter_who_he_fires_or_pardons_trump_won_t_be_able_to_escape_state_attorneys.html

  332. Jean Henry
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/26/opinion/indict-president-trial.html

  333. Jean Henry
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/02/27/can-donald-trump-be-indicted-while-serving-as-president/?utm_term=.69ca77769a91

  334. Jcp2
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

    The edgelord is not unintelligent, nor is he ignorant or uninformed. He’s just socially inept in person, hence his desire to be validated here, especially by people he considers himself better than. Probably not happening, but that’s an uninformed opinion.

  335. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

    It’s you people who think you can direct your abuse to me. If I respond in kind then that’s too bad. I came here being very, very nice and met nothing but abuse. I reserve the right to defend myself from supposition, insinuation and lies.

  336. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

    You have to eat it whether you admit it or not. No obstruction of justice. You guys are a lot of verbiage these days, aren’t you? Those are some nasty words too. Must leave a bad taste in your mouth.

  337. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

    are *eating* a lot

  338. Jean Henry
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

    HW– The OIG report did not address obstruction of justice. It simply said Comey fucked up. It did not establish whether or not Trump fired him to prevent the Russia inquiry or whether he fired him because of his mishandling of the Clinton email case. There will be another OIG report addressing the Russia allegations. At that point you may be able to say no obstruction of justice … or not. But nothing has been proven in that regard yet.

  339. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

    “You have to eat it whether you admit it or not. No obstruction of justice. You guys are a lot of verbiage these days, aren’t you? Those are some nasty words too. Must leave a bad taste in your mouth.”

    So what?

    No one is in competition with 420Kushlord, he wages a battle that no one shows up to. Nobody cares.

    I think that jcp2 is right, the DankBigBongHitzKushLord is insecure and is seeking some kind of validation here otherwise, why post? No one can decipher his blabbering well enough to do anything but ridicule him.

  340. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    “You have to eat it.”

    Eat… what, exactly? A sandwich? A burrito?

    I don’t know what he is talking about. I don’t think that anyone does.

  341. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

    If there was no obstruction of justice, then… fine. The world moves on.

    That’s what investigating a crime is about. If Trump or any of his associates have done nothing wrong, they have nothing to worry about.

    Who cares?

  342. Jean Henry
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    If I were, say, to haunt a right wing leaning blog and post regularly and obsessively about my perspective on Trump, I would not expect to get validation and kind treatment from the commenters there. HW came here to stir the pot, and then professes shock when people with polar opposite political perspectives don’t welcome him. Indeed, among his many delusions was the clearly stated expectation that he would shift completely the world view of the audience here once first the FISA memo and then the OIG report were released. That has not happened and yet he is certain still that he has not been proven wrong about anything. I dont know what HW is doing here. I know neither his perspective nor EOS’ align with the other Trump voters I know. Both come from the far fringes of the base of Trump support. I’m sure both would find better conversation in Trump supporting platforms. They are actually to get nothing here but the kind of blowback that allows them to dig in more deeply into their beliefs. And THAT I believe is why they are here. I dont think that Q Anon stuff will be of much interest to the average Trump supporter. They are thinking about their jobs and their families. People on MM will be more interested as it positions Trump supporters are more than fools but as completely nuts and without redemption. And that serves us here as well.
    Personally, I have never encountered anyone quite as volatile, insecure, fragile and confrontational as HW. I think he and our President would get on swimmingly.

    I do worry about his girlfriend and child. I know that’s condescending, but the feeling is real. I remember when as a kid a few adults suggested quietly and empathetically that living with my mom must be difficult. I was horrified. But they were very right.

  343. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    You have done way worse than not welcome me, Jean. If you can’t handle someone talking about things that disprove what you say then that reflects poorly on you.

    Iron Lung you cared what I said enough to try to ridicule me. Just about everything I have said you have mocked. You attack with the lowest behavior you can muster then when you are wrong it’s like “who cares?” I think that is awesome to see. I care because naturally I enjoy seeing you proven wrong.

  344. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

    Like mother like daughter, Jean. Your poor son has a completely backwards mentally ill mom.

  345. Jean Henry
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

    I wouldn’t have revealed that about my background if I had any serious insecurity about it. I think it’s important to talk about our life challenges. What was your mom like, HW? How did things go with your son’s mother? Everything ok at home? No judgment. We all have our challenges. It’s just that up to now, you have revealed nothing about the forces that turned Joe Schmo 90’s Sound Guy into Hyborian Warlord, prophet, fighter for truth and the american way.

    Humanize yourself HW, tell us about the challenges you’ve overcome.

  346. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

    No judgment! Ahahaha! Are you kidding me? You fuckin’ LIE and make shit up about me every day. I don’t have to explain myself to you. You act like I am pathological. You would never understand what it is like to be me without having my mind and I don’t think you want to, ‘Lyin’ Jean.

  347. Lucky Pierre
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

    “It’s you people who think you can direct your abuse to me.”

    Hypothetical question: is it abuse to call someone a moron, who misreads pretty much everything, and whose conclusions are completely at odds with reality?

  348. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 8:59 pm | Permalink

    Not if the person does what you do.

  349. Jean Henry
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 10:02 pm | Permalink

    It’s the old ‘I know you are but what am I’ defense from Mr Warlord.

    With a bonus ‘liar liar pants on fire.’

  350. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 10:30 pm | Permalink

    “I care because naturally I enjoy seeing you proven wrong.”

    Wrong about…. what, exactly?

    That kush can be dank?

  351. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 15, 2018 at 10:33 pm | Permalink

    Very strange.

  352. Jean Henry
    Posted June 16, 2018 at 6:13 am | Permalink

    HW– You make it really hard to not judge you.

  353. Sad
    Posted June 16, 2018 at 6:33 am | Permalink

    “Getting out is not giving up on someone when staying is giving up on yourself.”

  354. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 16, 2018 at 6:33 am | Permalink

    “You act like I am pathological.”

    lol

  355. Jean Henry
    Posted June 16, 2018 at 6:51 am | Permalink

    Sad– So why are you here?

  356. Jean Henry
    Posted June 16, 2018 at 6:53 am | Permalink

    “…I am pathological. You would never understand what it is like to be me without having my mind and I don’t think you want to.”

    This is a 100% accurate quote not unlike those used by Q Anon and other conspiracy theorists.

  357. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 16, 2018 at 6:59 am | Permalink

    “You can never understand my miiiiiiiiiiiind woah dank 420 phuck obama kush ghost ride the whip #vape4lyfe”

  358. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 16, 2018 at 9:52 am | Permalink

    Look how childish you people are. A teeny smidgen of self-reflection would go a long way. Seems you are willing to burn down the house in order to try to put my feet to the fire. Too bad for you because all it will do is destroy your own little clubhouse.

  359. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 16, 2018 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    The more that what I say is proven true the more hysterical you get. It’s a fascinating study of the behavior of the underdeveloped libtard attempting to cope with environmental stresses in its’ natural habitat.

  360. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 16, 2018 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    “The more that what I say is proven true the more hysterical you get.”

    lol

  361. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 16, 2018 at 11:37 am | Permalink

    The Dank Liberian 420 Kushlord has called us “libtards.”

    This all just gets more and more entertaining.

  362. Lucky Pierre
    Posted June 16, 2018 at 11:58 am | Permalink

    “Not if the person does what you do.”

    It was a hypothetical question, moron.

  363. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 16, 2018 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

    “Not if the person does what you do.”

    I am still struggling with figuring out exactly what Mr. Pierre “does.”

  364. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 17, 2018 at 12:50 am | Permalink

    You guys are so screwed. Literally everything you say is wrong and that is being proven more each day. I am truly enjoying watching the white hat plan unfold and seeing you squirm. Shits going to get bad. Really bad. You are going to be shocked to the core when you find out what you have been supporting all these years and you will be sorry.

  365. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 17, 2018 at 1:14 am | Permalink

    IG report 2.0 on FISA coming out. Then there is the little matter of if the President will have the original unaltered 1.0 report released. You people don’t even know about Huber yet hahaha. Has snopes or anyone in the world attempted to debunk the some 35,000 sealed indictments filed around the country since November? Pacer.gov screenshots phony you think? Guess what is a normal number per year!

  366. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted June 17, 2018 at 2:26 am | Permalink

    “It was a hypothetical question, moron.”

    Then why were you asking about things I actually have said to Jean Henry? That’s moronic to do that then call me a moron for ignoring your meaningless qualifier. Sucky Pierre haha.

  367. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 17, 2018 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    “That’s moronic to do that then call me a moron for ignoring your meaningless qualifier. Sucky Pierre haha.”

    Translation: “I know you are but what am I?”

  368. Iron Lung 2
    Posted June 17, 2018 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    “Literally everything you say is wrong and that is being proven more each day. ”

    I think that the Mr 420 Liberian HyperKushLord proves he is a moron “more each day.”

  369. Posted June 27, 2018 at 11:31 pm | Permalink

    A little something from today’s Wall Street Journal:

  370. iRobert
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:00 am | Permalink

    HW still hasn’t responded to your WSJ link post from last night, Mark. I wanted to see what he would say about this. Maybe he hasn’t noticed it. Maybe he’ll pretend he hasn’t. I’d really be curious to know.

  371. Jean Henry
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    Yes.
    HW what day you. You said N Korea was already denuclearizing? As proof, pointed to the destruction, before the summit, of a testing tower that had been previously permanently damaged by an earthquake after the most recent testing last fall.
    You denied the earthquake (proven wrong)
    You denied the timeline (proven wrong)
    You insisted that NKorea was falling in line. (Proven wrong)

    So who’s the fool who believes everything he’s told by the government???

  372. Iron Lung
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:38 am | Permalink

    It is a CIA coordinated media plot to undermine the Trump Presidency and ban weed.

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