Trump was offered a bipartisan government funding bill. He essentially turned it down because it wasn’t racist enough. He owns this government shutdown. And the Democrats should not capitulate.

Some of what you’re about to read may very well be wrong. I don’t pretend to understand the ins and outs of our convoluted government funding mechanisms. I have, however, been trying to follow along, and I wanted to share what I think is going on. As always, if you have an issue with something that I’ve written, or have access to more timely, relevant information, please leave a comment.

Every year, by October 1, which is the start of the government’s fiscal year, Congress needs to have passed 12 different appropriations bills, and the President needs to have signed them. And, if that doesn’t happen, the government… or at least all the parts of the government that have been deemed non-essential… come grinding to a halt. Well, this past September, as you may recall, when Trump didn’t get the funding for his border wall, he refused to sign the appropriations bills that had been given to him by Congress. Instead of bringing our federal government to a standstill, though, Trump agreed to accept a proposal offered by Chuck Schuemer and Nancy Pelosi, which would temporarily fund the government through something called a continuing resolution, essentially funding everything for the short term, with he understanding that we’d go on to have this fight at some point down the line. Well, that first deadline came and went, as did a second, and a third, leaving us with an ultimate deadline of January 19, which is two days from now. [And many seem to think that another continuing resolution, extending the deadline even further, would not pass if it came to a vote.]

As I understand it, if a shutdown happens, the active military keeps working, the Post Office keeps delivering mail, and Robert Mueller and his team keep going to work. A lot of departments, however, implement rolling furloughs. According to CNN, the Office of Management and Budget reported that “at the peak of the 2013 government shutdown, about 850,000 employees were furloughed per day.” So it’s certainly not an insignificant thing, and millions of Americans would be impacted.

But, and here’s the good news, last week at about this time, a bipartisan group of Senators calling themselves the Gang of Six, were able to strike a bargain that both sides could live with, a bargain with would both increase border security and protect the 800,000 or so immigrants who came here as children and have been protected under DACA (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals) since the Obama administration. Sounds promising, right?

Well, Senators Lindsey Graham and Dick Durbin, who spearheaded this bipartisan agreement, took it to the White House to seek approval from the President late last week. And, guess what? It was at this meeting that the President, who was apparently joined by his racist advisor Stephen “Dead Eyes” Miller, went off on his tirade about how he’d rather have more (white) immigrants from nations like Norway, than (black) immigrants from “shithole” nations like Haiti. [While it’s true that several Republican who were in the room that day claim not to have heard this exchange, both Graham and Durbin have confirmed it.] And, after the meeting, Trump called their proposed compromise, which, again, would have passed both the House and Senate, a “big step backwards.”

As far right Texas Senator John Cornyn said today, the compromise funding bill won’t get a vote in either chamber for one reason, and one reason only… because Trump won’t sign it. [Simply put, the compromise bill is not racist enough for his tastes, as he wants to restrict immigration from “shithole” nations, and build his fucking wall.]

So, that’s we are today. We have a bill that would pass, protecting approximately 800,000 young immigrants who have grown up in the U.S., but, because of Trump, our government is about to be shut down. So, when you hear Trump say that the shutdown is happening because of the Democrats, don’t believe him. He was offered a compromise, and he refused because that compromise does not conform to whatever hodgepodge of racist ideologies informs his decision making.

It’s worth noting here that extending a path to citizenship for those currently signed up under DACA, also known as Dreamers, is widely popular among voters of both parties. In fact, accordion to some polls, as many as two-thirds of Trump supporters are in favor of passing DACA.

Some Republicans, of course, are saying that Congress can address DACA later, and no harm will come to these young people if we wait a few more months. This, however, isn’t true. Some DACA recipients are already losing their protections and their ability to secure work permits… The following comes from a Talking Points Memo article published yesterday titled “DHS Head Wasn’t Aware Thousands Have Already Lost DACA Status.”

The secretary of the Department of Homeland Security revealed during an oversight hearing Tuesday that she didn’t know that thousands of DACA recipients had already lost their status as a result of President Donald Trump ending the program on Sept. 5.

“No one has lost their status,” DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen said, incorrectly. “No one will lose their status until March 5 or later.”

Contrary to frequent and incorrect reporting that DACA will end on March 5, young people whose work authorizations expired before then actually began losing DACA status after Oct. 5 of last year, the Trump administration’s new deadline to reapply to renew one’s authorization. Many more DACA recipients were ineligible to renew their DACA applications in the first place, because their work permits expired after March 5.

A federal judge halted the end of DACA on Jan. 9, but the move left thousands of DACA recipients in limbo.

The government did very little to notify DACA recipients of the Oct. 5 deadline, as Vox reported, and even some DACA recipients who thought they’d applied for renewal in time found that their applications had been delayed in the mail, according to the New York Times.

Estimates vary as to how many DACA recipients have so far been left out in the cold: The Hill reported on Jan. 10 that 15,000 people had lost their status since Sept. 5, citing unnamed immigration activists. Sen. Dianne Feinstein used the same number last week. According to the Center for American Progress’ running estimate, 16,166 have lost DACA status between Sept. 5 and Tuesday…

Meanwhile, across town, members of the Trump administration have already started walking back the President’s campaign promise about building a wall along the entire southern border, and having Mexico pay for it. First it was Kellyanne Conway, a week or so ago, saying that Trump had just “discovered” that an actual physical wall wouldn’t be necessary along the entire border, and today we’re hearing from White House Chief of Staff John Kelly that only part of Trump’s wall will be a big concrete barrier. According to attendees at the Kelly meeting, he also said that Mexico absolutely will not pay for the wall, as Trump had promised during the campaign, and that some of Trump’s immigration promises were “uninformed.” It was, of course, obvious to anyone paying attention that Trump was lying when he said that he’d build a ‘big, beautiful wall’ to keep the Mexican rapists and drug dealers out, and that we wouldn’t have to pay a dime for it. But I suppose it’s good that we’re finally coming to a point where that’s becoming obvious to his supporters. For what it’s worth, though, he still wants to give them a wall that they can be happy about. And that’s one of the things holding up the government funding deal.

Trump still has a number in his mind.. a certain number of miles that his great legacy wall needs to be. According to Dick Durbin, Trump wants $20 billion to build 722 miles of wall along the border, and, if he doesn’t get it, he won’t sign the funding resolution, throwing the government into shutdown.

And, to further complicate things, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, having apparently relocated his spine, informed reporters today that he is “not going to vote for” the GOP’s current government funding strategy, which, it would appear, includes the ridiculous wall, but not DACA. He went on to say that Trump “is pretty naive,” if he thinks that he can get this bill signed without DACA being a part of it.

So, that’s where we are right now. The Senate gave Trump a bipartisan bill, but he says he won’t sign it unless he gets 722 miles of useless wall that people can just throw drugs over, or tunnel underneath. [The entire border is approximately 1,900 miles long.] And, today, instead of working on the issue, and attempting to divert a government shutdown, Trump spent his time organizing his fake news awards… which, by the way, I still haven’t been able to see, as the RNC website, where they were to be announced, crashed.

This is what America has become.

Meanwhile, here at home, an immigrant who, at the age of 40, is too old to participate in DACA, was just deported. Jorge Garcia, who came to the United States at 10 years old with an undocumented relative, has now called this country his home for 30 years. He is married to a US citizen. He has two teenage sons here. He works as a landscaper. He pays his taxes. And he’s never been in any trouble with the law. In spite of all this, though, he was deported yesterday… Here’s video of Garcia crying at Detroit Metro airport as he says goodbye to his family.

I’m not sure how this makes America stronger. Sure, I suppose, there might be one more landscaping job, but at what cost? We now have two American kids growing up without a father in their lives. And we’ve lost a hardworking taxpayer, a Detroiter who, based on what I’ve read, was an asset to his community… Is this what you voted for when you voted for Trump? Is this what you, as a so-called “family values” voter, signed up for? When Trump talked about getting rid of gang members, did you know he really meant people like Jorge Garcia, who have been living here without incident for 30 years? I understand the desire to defend our borders, and I too want to have more clear immigration rules. But, with that said, I find it difficult to imagine that anyone could look at the case of Jorge Garcia, or that of any of the Dreamers, and say it’s in our nation’s best interest, after educating them here, to make them leave. These people are assets, and we should be doing everything in our power to keep them, not to push them away.

OK, one last thing… I’d like to ask you a favor. If you can set aside a few minutes today, can you please call your representatives in Congress and asked that they not vote in favor of any funding bill that does not include both DACA and CHIP, the health insurance program that covers 9 million American children in poverty? On both counts, they’re fights worth having.

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198 Comments

  1. Kim
    Posted January 18, 2018 at 8:23 am | Permalink

    An Ohio store owner is also being deported. He’s been living here for 39 years.

    https://twitter.com/RosaGoldensohn/status/953460993962758144

  2. Donald Trump weighs in
    Posted January 18, 2018 at 8:45 am | Permalink

    “CHIP should be part of a long term solution, not a 30 Day, or short term, extension!”

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/953984671674662912

  3. CNN's David Wright
    Posted January 18, 2018 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    @SenAngusKing & @SenatorRounds both say they’ll vote against short-term CR in joint @NewDay interview — King: “I’d vote for one for a few days to do the paperwork, but to kick it down the road for another month, we’re not going to know anything then that we don’t know now.”

  4. Donald Trump weighs in
    Posted January 18, 2018 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    “We need the Wall for the safety and security of our country. We need the Wall to help stop the massive inflow of drugs from Mexico, now rated the number one most dangerous country in the world. If there is no Wall, there is no Deal!”

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/953979393180950528

  5. Jon Favreau by proxy
    Posted January 18, 2018 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    All you need to know:

    Right now, McConnell doesn’t even have 50 votes for a deal that doesn’t protect DREAMers.

    He has at least 56 votes for a deal that does.

    https://twitter.com/jonfavs/status/954026093190684672

  6. Rat
    Posted January 18, 2018 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    For what it’s worth, Trump says his vision for the wall has never changed, and that he never called for a real wall across the entire border.

    “The Wall is the Wall, it has never changed or evolved from the first day I conceived of it. Parts will be, of necessity, see through and it was never intended to be built in areas where there is natural protection such as mountains, wastelands or tough rivers or water…..”

  7. Meta
    Posted January 18, 2018 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    Daily Beast: “Trump, Once Again, Blows Up Congressional Negotiations Hours Before a Critical Deadline”

    Republican lawmakers found themselves in a familiar place on Thursday: trying to divine what President Donald Trump was thinking just days before a critical legislative deadline.

    In the wee hours of the morning, the president upended his own party’s strategy for avoiding a government shutdown in the form of a 16-word tweet.

    The tweet seemed to encourage lawmakers to pass a long-term extension of the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP) outside of a short-term extension of government funding—which is precisely the opposite of what GOP leaders are attempting to do.

    Within seconds, the party’s attempts to woo Democratic votes by adding a six-year CHIP reauthorization into their four-week stopgap spending bill, were thrown into chaos. One House GOP leadership aide insisted to The Daily Beast that everything was “fine.” But others admitted that the party was left scrambling.

    “Frankly nobody knows what the heck he is arguing for. Not playing coy. Literally none of our policy staffers have cracked the code,” a GOP congressional source, granted anonymity to candidly assess Trump’s tweet, told The Daily Beast.

    Read more: https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-once-again-blows-up-congressional-negotiations-hours-before-a-critical-deadline

  8. Anonymous
    Posted January 18, 2018 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

    The Senate leader intends to keep his chamber in session and stage a series of votes designed to embarrass vulnerable Democrats in the case of a shutdown. politi.co/2ET6x8v

  9. M
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 10:00 am | Permalink

    It’s common sense, given that they control every branch of government, but it’s still good to hear Republicans taking responsibility for the looming shutdown.

    Here’s Dean Heller:

    https://twitter.com/stew_boss/status/954162188553404416

  10. MoveOn
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

    “Believe me, if we have to close down our government, we are building that wall.” –@realDonaldTrump on why he is hurtling us toward a government shutdown.

  11. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

    Democrats want chain migration and the “lottery”. Why not pick and choose who we allow in with a secure border and proper scrutiny?

  12. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 2:49 pm | Permalink

    Sounds like that FISA memo is pretty bad. I wonder if it will be released?

  13. Maria Huffman
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 2:49 pm | Permalink

    Whatever…the pot bellied pigs have got to….and the sofas they stayed on ..
    You all can tell Paula Tutman that.

  14. Sad
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    HW how do you feel about Trumps weight? Are you a birther or a girther?

  15. Iron Lung
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    “Democrats want chain migration and the “lottery”. Why not pick and choose who we allow in with a secure border and proper scrutiny?”

    Have you ever gone through the green card process? Ever tried to help an African get even a simple tourist visa to the US?

    Ah, that’s right, you have not.

  16. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    My family hosted a man from an African nation who was trying to get a visa for like two years so I guess you have to shut your ass up.

  17. Iron Lung
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

    Were you in the basement the whole time?

  18. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    Just a normal amount of time when I was practicing or watching tv or something, why? You think I am a basement-dweller? It’s weird how obsessive you are about trying to characterize me!

  19. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 3:46 pm | Permalink

    No doubt Trump is holding the FISA memo over their heads, hahaha. It sounds really bad. Not just people losing jobs but potentially facing prosecution.

  20. Iron Lung
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

    lol

  21. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

    I see you lolling right down into the slime with the treasonous traitors in the FISA memo. It’s good to see!

  22. Iron Lung
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

    I see that Alex Jones is all over it.

  23. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    Who wouldn’t be? Everyone who has seen it seems a little bit in shock.

  24. Iron Lung
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    Then they should release it. Trump can declassify it today. Republicans in Congress can vote to have it released.

    Yet, they don’t.

    And the people who have supposedly seen it make surprised faces and scream on right wing media, but no one says what’s in it.

    Screams of bullshit.

  25. Iron Lung
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

    This is like the political version of clickbait “YOU WON’T BELIEVE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT”

    except there’s no link.

  26. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

    Why give up your best bargaining chip at a time like this?

  27. Iron Lung
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    I suppose in the Mr. Warlord’s world, where Donald Trump was waiting to become President before he was willing to expose a child rapist and report him to the police, anything is possible.

  28. Iron Lung
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    Truly a hero, by the way.

  29. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

    How do you report a pedophile who pimps children to the President? You don’t see the problem because you need to twist everything to be as annoying as possible.

    The Representatives who have talked about it sound credible to me. I don’t think you think these things through. Sara Carter seems like an idiot to you? How do you get through life going around with an attitude like yours? Don’t people think you are a jerk?

  30. kjc
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    A report on bias written by DEVIN NUNES. lol.

    “Russian-linked bots on Twitter are pushing for the House Intelligence Committee to release a classified report written by committee Chairman Devin Nunes (R-Calif.).

    Some Republicans believe the report shows political bias in the FBI and the Department of Justice (DOJ) investigation of possible ties between the Trump campaign and Russia.

    #ReleaseTheMemo is the top trending hashtag among Twitter accounts believed to be operated by Kremlin-linked groups, according to Hamilton 68, a website which tracks Russian propaganda online.

    Hamilton 68 is spearheaded by Clint Watts, an expert on foreign actors using American social media. Watts has testified before Congress multiple times on the matter.

    The #ReleaseTheMemo hashtag has increased by 286,700 percent over the past two days and is being used 100 times more than any other hashtag by accounts Hamilton 68 is tracking. “

  31. Iron lung
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    Was Trump the President back when Epstein was having sex with children?

  32. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    No, but there was one who went to Little St. James Island every chance he got.

  33. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

    All you people do is go “lol”. Lame! What will you do when this shit busts wide open? You are going to have to look back and be like “Damn, I am full of shiiit. Hyborian Warlord was right!”

  34. Iron Lung
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    Probably not.

  35. Iron Lung
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    “#ReleaseTheMemo is the top trending hashtag among Twitter accounts believed to be operated by Kremlin-linked groups, according to Hamilton 68, a website which tracks Russian propaganda online.”

    Basically, the entire right wing media machine might be being controlled by Russian bots which just shows you how gullible people who watch/read/listen to Alex Jones, Hannity, Fox and all those other clowns really are.

  36. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

    They call everything they don’t like a Russian bot. On the latest from Project Veritas a Twitter employee talked about how they seek out accounts that “sound like a redneck” with machine learning and delete them because no one talks like that so it has to be a bot. The are not banning people they said but a “way of talking”.

  37. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 5:58 pm | Permalink

    Too many lovingly-crafted memes around today to be Russian bots.

  38. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 6:00 pm | Permalink

    https://www.google.com/search?biw=2539&bih=1330&tbs=qdr%3Ad&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=oHdiWujdKqyMjwTs2764DQ&q=%23releasethememo+memes&oq=%23releasethememo+memes&gs_l=psy-ab.3…163030.167012.0.168054.3.3.0.0.0.0.104.302.1j2.3.0….0…1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0….0.pKva6h0myO0

  39. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 6:08 pm | Permalink

    It doesn’t even make sense to say that when you have Representatives who read it talking about how horrified they were and how the American people need to see it now.

  40. Iron lung
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

    Well if they are horrified they can make it public.

  41. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

    Pretty sure they will.

  42. Iron lung
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

    They havent.

  43. Iron lung
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    Trump is a pathetic individual. Aside from not reporting a child rapist? He had unprotected sex with a sex worker while married.

  44. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

    When the comet burns in the sky
    It’s time for the tyrant to die

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60s5CNTmF5w

  45. Iron lung
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 8:47 pm | Permalink

    You support an enabler of child rape and a guy who has unprotected sex with sex workers while married.

    Pathetic.

  46. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 9:11 pm | Permalink

    How did he enable a rapist? He didn’t help the Clintons or anyone else do whatever they do there. Trying to figure out wtf is going on is enabling how? It doesn’t matter because the pedos are going down and Trump is leading the offensive. For now I’m happy to see this FISA memo come to light. Democrats don’t want anyone to look at it. Why is that, do you think???

  47. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 9:56 pm | Permalink

    Court in the ACT

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74Nei5Axde4

  48. Sad
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 10:38 pm | Permalink

    I recommend the people’s court – part 2

    https://youtu.be/mqXefUbBprM

  49. Iron Lung
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 11:33 pm | Permalink

    “How did he enable a rapist?”

    Jesus Christ, you truly are a moron.

  50. Iron Lung
    Posted January 19, 2018 at 11:35 pm | Permalink

    The mr. Warlord excuses child rape when politically convenient.

  51. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 9:08 am | Permalink

    That’s wrong in every way. You are wrong as shit and karma is going to kick your ass. If it was the Old West your ass would be kicked so hard already.

  52. Sad
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    !
    https://youtu.be/hTXaN8_wQKE

  53. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    Justice

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1epSRy16sM

  54. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    Notice Pete’s trolling always always always leads away from the information I introduce here. It’s pure slander and ridicule. It actually “kills a part of the world” as CB wrote.

    The best part of the FISA memo is it sounds like that is only the first of many of those “major hits to the deep state” that I was talking about months ago. We are all going to have to deal with this shit so you might as well start opening your eyes to reality now. The more you lol the weirder you sound as you sink into the slime.

  55. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 10:01 am | Permalink

    Soon it’s going to be like “Holy fucking shit – how did you know all this beforehand???” Remember I said all along the investigation is a fraud? That’s about to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt with the release of the four page memo on FISA abuse. That is only dealing with a small part of the records received by Congress dealing with the Obama FBI/DOJ and Clinton. I told you you were burnt toast when I found out the Podesta Group was under investigation in October. Now The Storm is hitting and it is a shitstorm of epic proportions! The shithawks are circling!!! They’re fanning the shitflames!!!!!!

  56. Jean Henry
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

    Thanks for the comic relief HW.

  57. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 12:12 pm | Permalink

    Enjoy laughing while you can. Soon it will be crying time. After probably a good long while you will finally look back and laugh at yourself for how completely wrong you were.

  58. Jean Henry
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJcwqyhUtH0

    There are a lot of things that make me cry, but people in power facing justice for any kind of malfeasance to the public good is not one of them. If it’s all true, bring it on.

    I don’t mind being wrong, Hyborian Warlord. But so far, other than the Trump election, you have been proven right about nothing. And I don’t think you even entered this space until after the election, so we’ll have to take your word on that one.

    PS I didn’t cry when Trump was elected. I’ve shed quite a few tears in the past year over his actions, however. Anyone with any compassion has. I cried over some of Obama’s actions too. I’m an equal opportunity bawler.

  59. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    Oh, you mind being wrong. You mind it so much you pretend I haven’t “proved” it over and over on just about everything you say. I don’t really believe in proof, only evidence but when you fail to rebut the evidence presented then you have to give up the point. That’s how a debate works. If you want to just bullshit around that is something else. Just own up to it.

  60. Iron Lung
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    “I don’t really believe in proof, only evidence”

    Says the guy who seems to get his news from Alex Jones.

    What does this statement even mean?

    “I don’t really believe in proof, only evidence”

    lol

  61. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    If you actually understood the scientific process you would know. There is no “proof” in science. Proofs are in mathematics. In science there is only evidence and analysis of the evidence. It is always possible to get more evidence and a better analysis. You have a PhD in a scientific field right? So you ought to know that. To ridicule someone about it is off the charts stupid.

  62. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

    I don’t have to watch Alex Jones. Mostly he talks about things I already know. Sometimes I have but I am already on top of most of what he says which is mostly true by the way. He is a character and I think it is hilarious when he starts spazzing out. I don’t have 100% trust in him and sometimes he gets things wrong but for the most part he is correct. A whole bunch of things he has said about the “palace coup” are about to be confirmed by the IG info for example.

  63. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    https://twitter.com/RepDaveJoyce/status/954797154282950657

    Dave Joyce‏Verified account
    @RepDaveJoyce
    Follow Follow @RepDaveJoyce
    More

    Great news! Our efforts to #ReleaseTheMemo have been effective and the HPSIC plans to begin the process to release the FBI/FISA/Russia memo. This may take up to 19+ Congressional work days but Americans deserve to know the truth.

  64. Iron lung
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    “If you actually understood the scientific process you would know.”

    I almost spit my coffee out through my nose.

  65. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    You just evidenced that you don’t understand it so that makes no sense. You think there is such thing as proof in science? How do you figure? There is understanding and there is always the possibility of better understanding. There is no “Final Answer” in science. It is always possible to achieve better quality or more complete understanding. The scientific method can be applied to any aspect of reality. That is the ideal. Don’t worry about “beliefs”, just observe and if you want to then make predictions based on your observations.

  66. Iron lung
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

    Great to get a lecture on science from a guy who reads infowars.

    Lol

  67. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

    I read everything I can find pretty much. That’s really interesting that you didn’t know that about the scientific method. You go around thinking “I have scientific PROOF!” but don’t even realize that’s not a scientific attitude at all.

  68. Iron Lung
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

    Yeah, you got me. I know nothing at all about science.

  69. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 6:18 pm | Permalink

    That’s right. You don’t understand the most basic idea of it. It’s funny how that works.

    Is there such thing as proof in science?

    https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=gM1jWpzrGIvYsAXv8baADA&q=is+there+such+thing+as+proof+in+science%3F&oq=is+there+such+thing+as+proof+in+science%3F&gs_l=psy-ab.3…952.19846.0.20060.60.39.9.12.12.0.200.4319.0j34j1.35.0….0…1c.1.64.psy-ab..5.53.4016…0j0i131k1j0i3k1j33i22i29i30k1j0i22i30k1j0i13k1j0i13i30k1j0i22i10i30k1j33i160k1j33i21k1.0.khjiXJc5Jfo

  70. Iron Lung
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    Yeah, I don’t understand anything about science at all.

  71. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

    That’s an infantile response to my reasoning. That doesn’t do anything. One of the basic tenets of science is exactly what I said: there is no such thing as proof in science, only evidence. It’s unavoidable if you think about the scientific method. There is a current level of understanding and that is it. No such thing as proof.

  72. Jean Henry
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

    I’m sorry but where did IL use the word ‘proof’? You applied that word to him. Did he say anything was ‘proven’ in this thread? In fact, you alone, HW, said you had ‘proven’ your points and then asserted that you don’t believe in proof. What are you even talking about?

    Again, no one seriously argues your points because they are not worthy of argument. If you want to believe that means you ‘won,’ so be it. If you have won, why do you keep arguing with a phantom interlocutor? Your alias continues to be remarkably appropriate. IL is just drawing out your insecurity (masked as bravado). It’s not a good look.

    I would love to see a proper moderated debate between the two of you. That would be fun.

  73. Iron Lung
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

    Yeah, man, you got me.

  74. Iron Lung
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

    I never realized how much I don’t know about anything at all.

    Glad the Mr. Warlord is around to educate the world.

  75. EOS
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 7:22 pm | Permalink

    HW,

    You are absolutely right about the scientific method. IL has a PhD in Public Health. It’s a behavioral science. They decide on a preferred outcome first and then write papers to point out the need to adopt the agenda that they wanted in the first place. Or they design surveys in such a way to skew the outcome to their preferred conclusion. It’s not really science at all.

  76. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

    He asked me what I meant about proof in my response to you, Jean. In an exasperated or “entertained” or whatever way: “What does that even mean?”

  77. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

    Thanks EOS. I know a lot of research is done that way such as NIDA’s which I suppose is Public Health also.

  78. Iron Lung
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

    In the context of the fucked up political crap you post here and your stream of consciousness, nonsensical, obscenity filled rants, what does “proof” or ” evidence” mean?

    Yes, very entertaining.

  79. Iron Lung
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

    “It’s a behavioral science. They decide on a preferred outcome first and then write papers to point out the need to adopt the agenda that they wanted in the first place. Or they design surveys in such a way to skew the outcome to their preferred conclusion. It’s not really science at all.”

    lol.

  80. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

    “Again, no one seriously argues your points because they are not worthy of argument. If you want to believe that means you ‘won,’ so be it. If you have won, why do you keep arguing with a phantom interlocutor? Your alias continues to be remarkably appropriate. IL is just drawing out your insecurity (masked as bravado). It’s not a good look.”

    The philosophical underpinnings of science itself are unworthy of your exalted attention. I see.

  81. Iron Lung
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    That is the most entertaining thing I’ve seen all day.

  82. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 7:39 pm | Permalink

    He would lose badly in a debate with me. Look at what just happened. I put him away in like two seconds with a link to the question on google.

  83. Jean Henry
    Posted January 20, 2018 at 11:17 pm | Permalink

    “The philosophical underpinnings of science itself are unworthy of your exalted attention.” They are in fact a subject of great fascination for me. I am however functionally ignorant on science. I do what I can in my pedestrian way to compensate for my limited education in that regard. I can tell you one thing for sure though, the last people on earth I would offer my attention with regards to ‘the philosophical underpinnings of science’ would be you or EOS.

    On my rare free Saturdays, I like to go to the Saturday morning physics lecture series at U-M. I recommend you and EOS try it some time. Given what you have put forward re climate science and what EOS has put forward re cosmology, I think you both might find them illuminating. But you know, it’s all just speculative. Based on evidence. Not proven. Evidence schmevidence. Anything could be true, if you believe it hard enough. Or if the bible tells you so.

    https://lsa.umich.edu/physics/news-events/seminars-colloquia/saturday-morning-physics.html#date=2018-02-11&view=month

  84. EOS
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 12:44 am | Permalink

    You don’t have to listen to either HW or me about the philosophy of science. Read a book. The lectures on Saturday are supposed to stimulate your interest so that you woud delve into the subjects rather than scratch the surface. Try to limit your comments to subjects in which you are not admittedly functionally ignorant. That you refuse to accept the facts does not in any way alter the facts.

  85. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 1:03 am | Permalink

    Intelligent reply by EOS. Don’t worry about who is saying it. If you can’t successfully rebut it the point is lost.

  86. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 2:03 am | Permalink

    Inspector General Horowitz obtained 1.2 MILLION documents in the investigation into Obama’s FBI/DOJ and the Clinton campaign. Presumably the four page memo represents only a small part of that information. That’s what I am hearing. It makes me giddy to think of the justice about to come down.

    Lady of Mars

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG_VXou7mfs

  87. wobblie
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 7:39 am | Permalink

    Eos, The Arctic is 20 C above normal again. Butt hey you know the scientific method and climate science is a hoax. Magical thinking has done nothing for humanity. The Pope understands that at least. As near as I can tell you are a true follower of Lysenkoism, where ideology trumps inquiry.

  88. wobblie
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 7:53 am | Permalink

    The Northern Hemisphere jet streams are in total disarray. But don’t worry be happy. A third of the population of Puerto Rico remain without electricity. The Republicans who are the overlords of the island are content to let it remain that way.
    https://www.gq.com/story/trump-puerto-rico-aid

    I remember HW saying how little of a problem the hurricane caused. Not a word out of his mouth about Puerto Rico since September.

  89. Jean Henry
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 8:20 am | Permalink

    EOS– I read books about science. I was trying to model for you what admitting the limits of one’s own knowledge looks like. Clearly that’s a foreign concept to you. I suggest you attend some of the lectures and put up your scientific theories to the test of an actual scientist during the Q & A, rather in a forum of mostly rubes like yourself. I’m not going to argue your points because two ignorant humans arguing about complex subjects they know little about is not interesting or productive.

  90. Jean Henry
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    HW: In your mind, you are winning games that in reality no one is playing except you. It’s all pure fantasy. It’s an amazing thing to watch, like an 8 year old in the backyard with a light saber slaying imaginary monsters.

  91. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 9:38 am | Permalink

    You need it to not be real but what effect do you think that has on reality? Talk about magical thinking! Jeez.

  92. Jean Henry
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    Oh my!
    Did you take a lot of LSD at some point in your life?

  93. Jcp2
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    It’s at this point in general primate discourse that we start flinging poop.

  94. Iron Lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    The Mr. Warlord is waiting for the day when we all have psychological breakdowns and say “The Mr. Warlord was right!!! WHY DIDN’T I LISTEN????” ignoring the fact that most of us can’t understand who exactly he’s talking to.

    It is possible that he believes that we are living in the Matrix. Or he’s just that guy on the street who walks around talking to himself.

    EOS is hardly an authority on science, choosing to believe in a variety of ideas for which no credible evidence exists. The Earth being 4,000 years old, for example.

    Regardless, I find them both entertaining, though in different ways.

  95. Iron Lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    Personally, I want the guy who always wrote about “life killing chemicals!!,” while posting reviews of local establishments that sell alcohol, to come back.

    And the tatersalad guy. Those were the days.

  96. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 10:21 am | Permalink

    It’s all of you collectively really. You use pretend ignorance as a shield.

  97. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 10:25 am | Permalink

    Did you never, Jean? Not sure what acid has to do with you thinking you can talk shit about what I say and then pretending you have nothing to do with it.

  98. Posted January 21, 2018 at 10:26 am | Permalink

    I know nobody here wants this, but here it is anyway… “Proof” is often defined differently in deduction (formal logic) and induction (scientific methods). Here’s a quote from “Logic and Scientific Methods,” by Herbert L. Searles:

    PROOF: Deductively valid argument resulting from the observation of logical rules. Inductively, proof is the adequate reason or reasons for holding to the truth or probability of a proposition on the basis of evidence.

    So, science can “prove” something by the second definition, but not by the first.

  99. Iron Lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    lol

    Most people can’t figure out what the Mr. Warlord wants us to be aware of, given the splattershot nature of his posts.

    And who exactly is his intended audience? He seems to already have EOS captivated. So maybe he can call it a win.

  100. Iron Lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    Doug,

    I don’t think that science or even the philosophy of science is going to be much use in a discussion of American politics in 2018.

  101. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    You pretend to be ignorant too, Iron. Just like Jean. My posts are clear. I use mainstream sources whenever possible. It’s just a big shitblanket you are trying to pull over. If you don’t know what I am referring to then look it up. If you don’t want to know then shut your ass up, you know? That’s how it works.

  102. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 10:53 am | Permalink

    You don’t know what the Horowitz IG Report is by now for example? Look it the fuck up. It is not hard to do. How do you not know it but you act like I must be some kind of idiot?

  103. Iron Lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 10:53 am | Permalink

    “My posts are clear. ”

    lol

  104. Jean Henry
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    RE: LSD– “Did you never, Jean? Not sure what acid has to do with you thinking you can talk shit about what I say and then pretending you have nothing to do with it.”
    HW– I have read a whole lot of what you have to say, and followed a few of the links down the rabbit holes, time allowing, and I’m simply trying to understand how it is that you came to be who you are and came to think the way you do. When anyone behaves so bizarrely, people will begin to analyze them and not what they say. Your thinking is so disjointed and thinking so paranoid that it simply appears to me that you have symptoms of excess use of acid.
    I have a fucked up brain but it’s not from excess use of acid. Just comes naturally to me. Most of the time I manage to communicate effectively anyway. Your a hard one to figure. I’m not as interested in your points as in you. Would you care to tell us a bit more about yourself?

  105. Jean Henry
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 11:28 am | Permalink

    Doug– This issue of slippage between meanings of the word ‘proof’ in science and in common usage has come up before. It never registers but I appreciate you getting at the kernel of the communication fail.

  106. Iron Lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    While I do think that science should inform policy, I am under no illusions that it actually does.

    Moreover, talking about “proof” and “evidence” and nuances of the philosophy of science in the context of politics, which is almost exclusively about identity, is fruitless. Evidence is meaningless in the politics of today.

  107. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    Oh, it’s Jean the gaslighter. Your time is about up. Yours too, “IL”. I have put a shit-ton of great information on here but you intellectual cowards pretend it is nonsense. It’s pure obfuscation. Maybe you are just not capable of understanding the significance of what I post. You over-do it to the point of absurdity. “Evidence is meaningless in the politics of today”. Okay maybe from a certain perspective but that is all it is. It’s not like that is a fact. It’s an opinion that has no relevance to the facts. I use evidence and reason. Call me crazy for taking it for granted that everyone would want to do the same. “Acid makes people paranoid”. Oh, okay. I’m paranoid cuz I took too much acid. Why do my predictions have all the momentum now then? If I turn out to be correct and all you fools turn out to have done nothing but trolled truth itself what then? The paranoid, acid-eating, ganja-toking heavy metal burnout happens to know wtf is going on better than any of you. How could that be? Could you be wrong? One of the first things I learned from psychedelics was that reality is a projection of the mind. There are obvious inferences related to my philosophy on “beliefs” (death of intelligence). I take it for granted these things are understandable concepts but of course everyone thinks differently. Just go “lol” or something. Seriously, enjoy being able to lol while you still can. Soon you are going to be all fucked up! Hahaha.

  108. Iron lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    Stick with fantasy metal. Its healthier

  109. Iron lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    Step away from the keyboard and listen to Bell Witch.

  110. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

    If Heaven is Hell
    You’ll never get me down

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZuJxJUQZQ0

  111. Jean Henry
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

    HW– I appreciate the information about who you are and where your ideas come from. I’m sure EOS will find them fascinating. Nothing EOS loves more than mind-altering drugs.

  112. Iron Lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    I would have been more accommodating to the Mr. Warlord had he posted more obscure NWOBHM links.

    I am sure the EOS, like most of evangelical America, is now wholly OK with being areligious, drugs, extramarital sex and pornography.

  113. Jean Henry
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

    I hate that shit. And I’ll listen to anything. Bad memories of bad dudes, but to each his own. It’s funny how it’s cathartic, unless it’s the actual soundtrack to your own personal horror story. Everybody has their lenses. It’s important to recognize when yours is distorted even if it’s very real to you… HW.

  114. Iron Lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

    I encourage people to listen to and become enthusiastic about any kind of music.

  115. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

    What does it say that your prediction is crumbling and mine is picking up steam? Someone could have taken way more acid then acid than I ever did and still be correct. Acid heads might be much more likely to be correct. Psilocybin mushrooms cure depression. That is the latest research. The mushroom is sacred medicine as is peyote. You are going to tell the wizened shaman he is merely taking a mind-altering hallucinogenic “drug” trip? I don’t think so. LSD is derived from ergot fungus so it is a step away from entheogens but similar enough in effect I think to be of tremendous value. “You have to go out of your mind to learn to use your brain.” Timothy Leary said that and I know what he meant. Things that you think are your mind or just reality itself suddenly appear as they are: preconceived notions most of which are societal memes or ideas that have taken on a life of their own; a substitute for the direct perception of the full depth of reality around us all the time. We are lazy and if we don’t ever go out of our mind we succumb to our brain’s own tricks and get stuck in an extremely narrow band of perception.

  116. Iron Lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    It’s just a personal opinion, but I think hallucinogens are stupid. That being said, people do what they do.

    What humans have historically done in the name of religion is irrelevant to me.

    I am also of the opinion that there is no “cure” for depression. Most certainly, there is no magic pill that will make it simply go away. That’s just wishful thinking.

  117. Iron Lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

    “What does it say that your prediction is crumbling and mine is picking up steam? ”

    What prediction?

    The man fights a war with unseen adversaries.

  118. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

    A whole lot of amazing people in this world of all different kinds think your opinion is misguided. Did you never have a psychedelic experience? That would explain a lot (good for neural plasticity). Maybe you had a shitty one. That’s an occupational hazard to the psychonaut but if you follow “set and setting” chances are you’ll have an incredible experience.

    “What prediction? What prediction? I’ont know wuchoo talkin’ bout…”

    You know wtf I am talking about. The Mueller probe is about to be disbanded and key players fired and prosecuted. It’s in the FISA memo that I explained in CLEAR terms. I told all you people back when the Mueller investigation started it was a fraud. Now it turns out it is. It’s coming out so you might as well catch up on it and don’t be a doofus with your little “utterances.”

  119. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

    The evidence that the Mueller probe is a fraud is in the memo to be absolutely clear. I think there is more than that. It’s coming out if not this week then soon after.

  120. Iron Lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

    “A whole lot of amazing people in this world of all different kinds think your opinion is misguided. ”

    A lot of amazing people would probably think my decision not to go to church is misguided. I think they are wrong.

    I never made any predictions about the Mueller probe.

  121. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

    “Cure” is a loaded term so no problem with wording it differently. Micro-doses of psilocybin alleviate depression with lasting benefits in recent research. A high number of depressed people in recent studies showed lasting benefits from low dose psilocybin.

  122. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    “I never made any predictions about the Mueller probe.”

    I didn’t say you did. The response was to Jean making an inane comment about “who [she thinks] I am and where I come from.”

  123. Iron Lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    If it helps people, great.

  124. Iron Lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

    The mr. Warlord lives in an endless cliffhanger.

  125. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

    “If it helps people, great.”

    Without harmful side effects I might add. That’s the whole other side of the equation that pharmaceuticals have going against them.

  126. Jean Henry
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    HW– I also have said I’m content to wait out the Mueller probe. I have not called for Trump’s impeachment or any action. I understand how long these things take. I don’t know how that relates to my curiosity about how you came to be you, HW. That’s real.

    I don’t disagree with your assertions about psychedelics (and MDMA) in micro-doses alleviating depression. I have followed that research. ‘Cure’ IS the wrong word. Psychiatric meds can save lives, reduce suicidal ideation, restore functionality, etc etc. I’ve seen it happen. I’ve also seen improper medication create those same symptoms. And of course, micro dose effectiveness does not mean more drugs creates more improvement, or that one should self-medicate with these or any agents. And psychedelics pose serious risks to people with psychotic illnesses.

    Psychiatry is a very imperfect science. And pharmacology is not the only effective treatment, though often the only well funded treatment. I have never heard a professional talk about ‘curing’ any kind of mental illness. They are chronic illnesses. Most professionals will also acknowledge, if asked, that most mental illness classification is wonky at best. None of that means that the practice of psychiatry is ineffective and does not save many lives and help prevent many others from simply bottoming out.

    Interesting that this is one area where IL agrees with EOS, though I suspect for different reasons.

  127. Iron lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    Medical research is intended to help people in need, not to jusify the recreational habits of the readership of high times.

  128. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

    But you “expected” this. Didn’t you post some meme vid about “Mueller time”? You talked hella shit about Uranium One being nothing but a distraction too but now there is movement in the case. Pretty sure there is a crap-ton of statements you have made about all of it that is proving to be false. Did you have nothing to say about Flynn flipping? It’s hard to keep all the TDS sufferers here straight.

    “Once they get tax reform and maybe a judge or two out if him, I expect that the 25th amendment may be invoked to get him out of there. I don’t think Congress at that point will hold it back, with or without a trial.
    That Bannon has mentioned it to Trump himself a few times tells you how toxic things are in the WH.
    It’s Shakespearian. Can’t wait for this all to end, so I can watch the plays and read the books about it. It will be more entertaining then.”

  129. EOS
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

    Sorry Doug,

    Inductive reasoning cannot prove anything, but merely states an approximation of the probability of its occurrence. And Science itself holds truth to be irrelevant. It merely seeks the best model to explain all observations. When observations are made that don’t fit the current model, they change the model. Inductive reasoning could be used as “proof” only in cases where an individual has omniscience, which is a human impossibility.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_reasoning

  130. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think psychedelic use needs justification. It’s inherently just. You want to stop people from eating mushrooms for fun? That is injustice. That is why you see me as authoritarian. It’s because that is what you are. You are trying to have authority over human consciousness itself. Ironically chances are if you had a good psychedelic window-washing on the old eyes you would see that.

  131. Jean Henry
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    I did post the Mueller time video. It was funny as hell. I like Mueller and think he is doing a good job. I hope he buries Trump and co, but this isn’t my first rodeo, and I know what I don’t know. Please note that my tone in the cherry-picked bit you quoted is speculative not certain, but based on evidence. I do not pretend to know the future the way you do.

    EOS has zero credibility in talking about the science or the deliberative quest for truth as she is a literalist about the bible– which was also written by individual men, several decades after the events they convey, and translated by many more men over centuries, not created by some omniscient. Not to mention the whole age of the universe thing.

  132. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

    Free Country

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5TC3qpQbto

  133. Jean Henry
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

    HW– “You want to stop people from eating mushrooms for fun? That is injustice.” –please stop attributing statements to people that they never made, that they never even came close to making.

  134. Jcp2
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

    France as a model for America. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/01/macron-trump-economics/549944/

  135. Jean Henry
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    OK. I have a couple dozen of people coming over for dinner. Thank you all for keeping me entertained as I prepare the meal. I’m sure jumping back in again before bed will prove equally amusing.

  136. Iron lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    I said nothing about dryg policy.

    I think is perverse to use research into depression treatments intended to help people who are suffering as justification for recreational drug use.

  137. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    You talked mega shit about how deluded talk of Uranium One is and a whole bunch of shit. You know you did. Wrong wrong wrong. Nothing wrong with predicting the future if you are correct. Flynn didn’t seem to hurt Trump from what I am seeing and the Mueller investigation is now under serious scrutiny. Extremely serious info devastating to the Mueller probe is all I am hearing. You want to bet against me still? You say you think he is doing a good job so let’s see what happens.

  138. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    “I think is perverse to use research into depression treatments intended to help people who are suffering as justification for recreational drug use.”

    Are you saying that I am doing that? As I explained it’s unnecessary as far as I am concerned so why would I?

  139. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    “HW– “You want to stop people from eating mushrooms for fun? That is injustice.” –please stop attributing statements to people that they never made, that they never even came close to making.”

    He did say it. He is saying they need some kind of justification. What the hell that means in this context I don’t know. Definitely some weird repressive shit though. Who decides what psychedelic usage is justified?

  140. Iron lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    Yes, I think you are, to be honest, given that you seem uninterested in other treatments for depression and appear indifferent to other health issues. Given you admitted recreational use of other hallucingens and marijuana, it is safe to assume that you are enthused about increased social acceptance of psilocybin through results from medical research.

  141. Iron lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    No i never said anything at all about drug use or drug policy.

  142. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

    Uninterested in other treatments. I seem that way to you? Don’t you see what I am saying? You are projecting everything. I am interested in pharmaceuticals. I see that as a class they have terrible side effects to health, something that psychedelics and Cannabis (for the overwhelming majority) do not.

    I don’t think psychedelics and Cannabis should need to be snuck in through a back door. They should simply be taken out of the criminal justice system. It’s not a criminal issue. No justification (you did say something about it) needed.

  143. Posted January 21, 2018 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    EOS — I never said science could prove anything, by that first definition. i just pointed out that the term “proof” is sometimes used differently in induction, as in the second definition. Obviously, the best way to avoid confusion is to use a different term.

  144. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

    Remember, you said hallucinogens are dumb. I responded by mentioning the value of psilocybin as medicine in the spiritual sense to people of the Americas as well as to modern-day medical treatment. Somehow you turned that into that I was trying to justify something I don’t see as needing a justification. You do that kind of thing all the time. It’s compulsive I am sure and you do it so much you don’t even know you do it.

  145. Iron lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    I also think that most drugs should be fully legalized.

    I do think, though, that it is perverse to use medical research intended to help people with specific conditions to justify recreational drug use.

    Proponents of “medical marijuana” offer a plethora of magical benefits to the drug, simply in the hopes of opening a backdoor to legalization so that they can get high on the weekend.

    I dont care what people do on the weekend, but perverting medical research is irresposible.

  146. wobblie
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    HW your internal contradictions are really quite amazing. You are in favor of recreational drug use. Believe it is a human right, but support Trump and as a consequence Sessions, who is all for reigniting the drug war. Believe in “science” but adopt an anti-science position relative to climate change. Like I said earlier you are a Lysenkoist. If it does not agree with your preconceived ideas, it is fake.

  147. Iron lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

    I am not in favor of recreational drug use.

  148. Iron lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

    Oh sorry .

    Ignore.

  149. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    “Doug Skinner
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 4:30 pm | Permalink
    EOS — I never said science could prove anything, by that first definition. i just pointed out that the term “proof” is sometimes used differently in induction, as in the second definition. Obviously, the best way to avoid confusion is to use a different term.”

    It was a good, informative post. The point about not believing in proof that I made was to explain my guiding philosophy which is to strive to always maintain some doubt about everything, to never allow belief (death of intelligence) to creep in if at all possible. That is consistent with the scientific method. That is my ideal.

  150. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    “HW your internal contradictions are really quite amazing. You are in favor of recreational drug use. Believe it is a human right, but support Trump and as a consequence Sessions, who is all for reigniting the drug war. Believe in “science” but adopt an anti-science position relative to climate change. Like I said earlier you are a Lysenkoist. If it does not agree with your preconceived ideas, it is fake.”

    Lysenko, huh? I’ll have to look that up. Here is another prediction for you: Sessions will prompt action from members of Congress resulting in Cannabis becoming strictly a state issue. Win.

  151. Iron lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    Lol lol

  152. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    “justify”

    You keep saying that but what do you mean? Why does taking psychedelics require it?

  153. wobblie
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    Back on point, “Our bi-partisan deal gives the President everything he wanted”. Senator Dick Durban. The Democrats rank right up there with the Washington Generals basketball team.

  154. Iron lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

    Trump wants to set US drug policy back 50 years.

  155. Iron lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

    Wobblie,

    The former Ron Paul supporters voted overwhelmingly for Trump too, indicating how confused some people really are.

  156. wobblie
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 5:27 pm | Permalink

    Schumer, “There is still a bi-partisan deal from Sens. Durban and Graham to protect dreamers and fund @POTUS’s full request for the WALL,..”

    You have got to love the @resistance they really are standing up to the Trump agenda.

    It is just like Obama’s great negotiating for health care reform and labor law reform (Oh wait he didn’t even try with that). Give the Republicans what ever they present as their initial bargaining position, and then see how much more you have to give away to make a deal.

    Before this is done the Democrats will be giving in to all of Trump’s worst immigration positions.

    The lesser evil gives you nothing but evil.

  157. wobblie
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

    IL, they believed the con man would actually change US foreign policy. Much like many folks actually believed Obama would end the wars. I think many were surprised at the ease with which Trump folded to the intelligence establishment. They some how (engaging in wishful thinking) believed he would actually lower international tensions, and seek to disengage the US from it Empire. Anti-war.com is a web site that follows this reasoning.

    For many the hate and dislike of the Clinton’s was an even greater driving force.. They would have found a reason to vote for the Republican regardless.

  158. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

    Trump has all but destroyed ISIS in his first year. That’s an amazing achievement considering their proliferation during previous administrations. It must be a huge change in policy to lead to actually defeating terrorists. It could turn out to be stabilizing in the extreme.

  159. Iron lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

    What does that havw to do with drug policy?

  160. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

    Why do you ask idiotic questions?

  161. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

    Or what does ‘what’ have to do with drug policy?

  162. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

    Judgment

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSpWRtln1zU

  163. Iron lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

    I am entertained by the spastic nature of the Mr. Warlord’s posts.

    It’s like there’s a whole set of comments out there that he can see so it looks like he’s blabbering on by himself.

  164. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

    That makes no sense at all. You asked an idiotic question out of the blue. I asked you to clarify. You are a troll. Could be an idiot. Probably both. I actually don’t think you are playing dumb. Scary!

  165. Iron lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

    Lol

    Lol

  166. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

    You must have the lowest information to garbage ratio on this blog. Durf durf!

  167. Sad
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

    MM if you start doing six pack again could you do an interview with HW? Please?

    With a song by IL?

  168. Iron Lung
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 9:54 pm | Permalink

    I would love to do an improvisational piece to an interview with the Mr. Warlord. It would be constant spazz.

  169. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 21, 2018 at 11:38 pm | Permalink

    Like you need anything to make you more spastic than you are. Funny shit! I am pretty chill overall but can be excitable. Not a spazz I don’t think but dynamic. It’s weird this obsession you people have with what you think I must be like.

  170. wobblie
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    “Trump has all but destroyed ISIS in his first year. That’s an amazing achievement considering their proliferation during previous administrations. It must be a huge change in policy to lead to actually defeating terrorists. It could turn out to be stabilizing in the extreme.”

    Totally out of touch with the reality in Syria. The Syrians and the Russians and the Iranians and Hezbollah and the Kurds have wiped out ISIS. Our totally confused policy of supporting Al Queda in Syria, the Syrian Democratic Forces, Turkey, and various other Takfir rebel groups continues and other than supporting the YPG has done nothing against ISIS.

    HW your are totally driven by Trumpist propaganda that you unable to judge anything remotely objectively.

  171. Frosted Flakes
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

    Wobblie,

    Over the years, in my opinion, you have had some interesting things to say about the Middle Eastern conflicts and some interesting things to say about our strange and seemingly counter productive alliances with different groups in the region. Just curious, if you, ever got the sense that Trump might have been in a position where it was to his advantage, to show outward support for groups we have traditionally supported, while simultaneously, behind closed doors he might have been cooperating with anti-Isis forces? I have to admit, I don’t follow this stuff too closely, so my super general question is sincere, but, I do think there have been some signs that maybe Trump is operating in a non traditional way when it comes to the region….I know my question is vague and kind of lame. Just wondering what people think so I can research the topic more when I get some free time….It doesn’t feel like it is as cut and dry as Trump had nothing to do with success against Isis. But I don’t know….

    (The question is for anyone interested in how recent success against ISIS might have actually come about.)

  172. wobblie
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 1:20 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think Trump has a clue about what he is doing in the middle east. He knows he needs to sell guns to the Saudi’s and keep his Zionist backers happy by moving the embassy. Beyond that he is letting his generals decide what to do. We have two different strategies at work in Syria. Our official position is one of support for regime change, but know that we can not actively confront Syria and its allies. So we support various surrogates, mainly those that the Saudi’s and Turks support. We began actively supporting the Kurds, late in the Obama administration when the Syrian government began winning the war. The CIA has pursued an independent policy towards the rebels. Helping first the movement of ISIS fighters and arms from Libya. Then working with Turkey to keep the supply of foreign fighters coming to ISIS. When ISIS pursued its independent policy of invading Iraq, that kind of blew up our Syrian regime change plans.

    Giving tacit approval for Turkey to invade Syria and take out the Kurds is typical of our contradictory and confused policy. The YPG has been our legs on the ground against ISIS in Syria. We allegedly have 2000 Special forces embedded with them. Now our NATO Allie is bombing them. I am sure if the Turks kill some of our men, we will not know of it for years. Meanwhile the Russians have also given the Turks tacit approval to take out the Kurds.

    The one secular progressive force in the whole region, all the Great Powers want to see eliminated.

  173. Frosted Flakes
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 1:20 pm | Permalink

    Reading through the comments on the term “Proof” in science, math, logic and philosophy.

    EOS and HW were making perfectly normal comments. Strange to me that people would “lol” so much. Regarding the Herbert Searle quote: Yeah, that quote is from an introductory textbook I believe. In my opinion, a lot of people would read that and question the use of terms and offer clarification for his use of the term “proof” there. He is definitely intending to convey the idea of “proof” with a little “p”, which is fine I guess, but his usage of the term would, in my opinion, lead to further discussion of his particular usage, 99 out 100 times within a philosophy of science course.

  174. Frosted Flakes
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

    Thanks Wobblie.

    I find the whole thing confusing but I appreciate having a different perspective. so I can try to investigate it a little….

  175. wobblie
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

    A couple of good web pages on the mid-east and syria. The first ones are various web sites that translate news and give independent analysis.

    https://www.juancole.com/

    https://thesaker.is/

    https://southfront.org/

    http://www.moonofalabama.org/

    http://aranews.net/

    The last one is the Kurds news wire. It has been off line since just before the Turkish invasion.

    https://twitter.com/DefenseUnits

    the twitter account of the Kurdish Self Defense Forces

    https://twitter.com/DefenseUnitsYPJ

    the twitter account of the Womans Self Defense Forces

    Russian TV also gives pretty extensive coverage.

  176. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 2:48 pm | Permalink


    Totally out of touch with the reality in Syria. The Syrians and the Russians and the Iranians and Hezbollah and the Kurds have wiped out ISIS. Our totally confused policy of supporting Al Queda in Syria, the Syrian Democratic Forces, Turkey, and various other Takfir rebel groups continues and other than supporting the YPG has done nothing against ISIS.
    HW your are totally driven by Trumpist propaganda that you unable to judge anything remotely objectively.”

    I mean they should have an easier time dealing with them since they no longer had to fight US-backed forces. Don’t see how I’m not remotely objective. I’d say that is you.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/19/world/middleeast/cia-arming-syrian-rebels.html
    “President Trump has ended the clandestine American program to provide arms and supplies to Syrian rebel groups, American officials said, a recognition that the effort was failing and that the administration has given up hope of helping to topple the government of President Bashar al-Assad.

    The decision came more than a month ago, the officials said, by which time the effort to deliver the arms had slowed to a trickle.

    It was never publicly announced, just as the beginnings of the program four years ago were officially a secret, authorized by President Barack Obama through a “finding” that permitted the C.I.A. to conduct a deniable program. News of the troublesome program soon leaked out.”

  177. Frosted Flakes
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    Thanks HW. I am totally out of touch with these issues but you basically pinpointed one of the things that led me to think that maybe Trump played a role, perhaps an indirect role (?), in aiding the successful fight against Isis. Need to research it more because I am basically clueless though….

  178. wobblie
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    HW, I am glad you believe the mouth piece of the US government (Ny Times). I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn I can let you have for a real reasonable price too.

    We allegedly ended in July our support of the Takfiris forces (so says the NY Times). But we continue to support the Syrian Democratic Forces of which the YPG is part, while at the same time supporting Turkey’s invasion and attack on the YPG. The main Turkish ground forces are Takfiris forces that had fled to Turkey, and are called the Free Syrian Army (and supplied with US arms). Our policy in Syria remains totally confused and leaderless.

    The US announcement two weeks ago that they were going to “train” a 30,000 man SDF force to guard the Turkish border, is like every other US policy in Syria is today in total disarray. We were counting on the Kurds, who we just let the Turks attack.

    Much like the debacle in Puerto Rico, I imagine you will not have another word to say about the Trump fiasco in Syria.

  179. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    Neat lil map showing ISIS territory in Iraq and Syria in 2015 and 2018. How much do you think was lost in 2017?

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-27838034

  180. Jean Henry
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

    FF— your attempts to mediate and appear reasonable are charming but misguided. Both EOS and HW regularly present anti-science positions and when challenged Insist that nothing can be proven in science and so anything can be true. Further IL never spoke of proof. HW attributed that to him. This attempt to be balanced about anti-science positions like Climate denial and creationism has been shown to be dangerous. All reputable news outlets have abandoned it, just as they have stopped pretending Trump is anything but a habitual liar. They deserved those LOL’s.
    Do
    As for ISIS, Trump deserves no credit. His generals do. And the policy they pursued was started under Obama. I have been open in my criticism of Obama’s earlier laissez-faire foreign policy under Kerry, but they took their terrible lessons and started to turn things around.

  181. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

    YOU are anti-science, Jean. You haven’t been able to answer any of the evidence I have shown to back up what I say. What do you think I have said that is anti science? That I have doubts that human-produced CO2 is responsible for Global Warming? That’s crazy. I’ve shown that change is the norm in the Pleistocene, which we are still living in in case you didn’t pick that up. You don’t want to know that though. You don’t want to know we are at risk of a sudden, devastating plunge into yet another ice age. You don’t want to study the pattern. So how can you say I am anti-science? That is you.

    SJW wack-a-mole!

  182. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

    How come the generals couldn’t get it done during Obama then but they can under Trump?

  183. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

    Kerry about using DAESH (ISIS) against Assad

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdVa5qoh_80

  184. Frosted Flakes
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

    Jean,

    I read the back and forth comments. HW brought up the difference between “evidence” and “proof”, as an aside, in response to your comment directed toward HW where you said “you have proven nothing”. IL chimed in with a question that strongly implied that IL thought HW was not making sense with his distinction between proof and evidence—which was kind of odd—given he is a scientist and even more so because within the last week he also accused Lynne of not knowing what a “system” is…HW’s distinction was normal. EOS comments about proof and science were perfectly normal. And Lynne knows what a damn “system”

    I don’t know if any of the “lols” can be attributed to you and I don’t care to go back and check but that stuff is for the birds.

    At one point didn’t you say you don’t even read the names attached to comments? I thought that was a great idea.

  185. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

    If humans are changing climate on Earth I would predict the biggest factor would be deforestation. When trees cover the land then the earth is rich and absorbs rainwater. The forest acts as a heat sink. If you cut down most of the trees and much of what remains is scattered then the land dries and can no longer absorb water. Plants wither, flooding occurs leading to greater erosion leading to desertification. Oh, and they take what out of the atmosphere? CO2! Whoah! SCIENCE!!!

  186. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

    I used to go to those Saturday morning physics lectures sometimes about twenty years ago so it’s funny to hear someone condescendingly recommend it to me. I went to one about how we now know for sure the Big Bang happened. It was interesting to compare it to the book I had just read called The Big Bang Never Happened. I don’t recall what was said about the evidence for the BB. It was a long time ago and that is heady stuff. I do recall that they relied on Dark Matter quite a bit to get their equations to work. “We can’t see it but we know it is there because we can see the effects of it.” I listened and took it on board but after thinking about it I thought Lerner’s book presented major problems for the BB and DM that were not answered by the lecture.

    I question everymuthafuckin’ thang, you know what I’m sayin’? Hahahaha! Question reality always. Never take anything for granted. Never settle on a source. What if the author they think is weird is right? What if the book I like is wrong? Too bad! There it is. A better understanding. That’s what it is all about.

  187. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

    Electric…Universe

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFTP0HxAL_I

  188. Jean Henry
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

    FF— it’s always clear when EOS or HW are writing posts, except when someone is parodying them, because their comments are predictable. Nevertheless, anyone who posted such inane responses distorting context of the discourse would have received the same replies from me. I did not LOL because I never write LOL, but I think scoffing at anti-science perspectives is a legitimate and even necessary response. Their perspective warrants condescension. And a few LOL’s is nothing compared to the insults they dish out. I might take your criticism more seriously if you held them to the same standards.

  189. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

    You just run a little script that says nothing over and over. It doesn’t matter what you think of me. You can ‘t answer one thing. You know what you have to do in a debate when that happens, right? What does reality care about someone’s opinion?

  190. EOS
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

    Most of the most prolific scientists in all of history were persons of faith. Most of the renowned Universities in our country were founded by persons of faith. The most educated persons throughout history were predominately persons of faith. Faith and Reason are not mutually exclusive. And for the record, I don’t think the earth is only 4000 years old. It’s between 6000 and 8000 years old.

  191. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

    Seems unreasonable it could be only 8,000 years. I have nothing to do with that Jean so don’t be like “HW agrees with EOS a lot and EOS thinks blah blah blah so HW must believe that too!”

  192. Jean Henry
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    I’m pretty clear on what you and EOS are likely to agree and disagree on, HW. I actually pay attention to what others write. You two make uneasy allies at best.

  193. wobblie
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 9:50 pm | Permalink

    Here is an interesting map that shows that the Syrian government has regained control over almost all of Syria.

    https://southfront.org/military-situation-in-syrian-on-january-22-2018-map-update/

    That part held by the Kurds actually recognizes the Syrian government of Assad. So much for the generals accomplishing anything. Trump and his generals have lost yet another war.

    The total collapse of US foreign policy in the middle east is accelerating. Trump is so clueless, and has given his generals such autonomy that no one in the middle east (with the possible exception of Israel and the house of Saud ) trust anything the US says. The Iraqis only suffer us because they need our weapons, and don’t trust the Iranians. The Turks think we stabbed them in the backs supporting the Kurds. The Kurds both in Iraq and Syria think we set them up and then abandoned them.

    Keep looking at your made up Trump reality, the world is moving on finding that we are more and more irrelevant. Except for our ability to engage in the senseless killing of civilians we have become a non-entity in the Syrian situation. The US is not even invited to the peace conference that the Russians are hosting in Sochi. That conference will probably decide the peace, and all the US can do is be a spoiler.

  194. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think you get it, wobblie. Trump doesn’t want war with Assad.

  195. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

    Obama wanted it so bad he funded ISIS to go against him. He let the CIA do it anyway. Even the NY Times admitted it. That’s loony tunes.

  196. wobblie
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 10:20 pm | Permalink

    The “wall” will be just as effective as the Great Wall of China, Hadrians Walls, and the Berlin Wall. All of those walls ultimately led to the down falls of the Empires that built them. For Trumps dream to come true, we will need to station 100,000 border guards along the wall, and that probably won’t be enough.

    Of course if the Republicrats with their bi-partisan support of neo-liberal economic policies have their way (what do you think the odds are of the Supreme Court ruling labor unions are contrary to the constitution–NLRB v Murphy Oil will be decided soon and will most likely result in the National Labor Relations Act being eviscerated) we will be sinking into 3rd world nation status for most citizens and illegal immigration will no longer be a problem.

  197. wobblie
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

    HW since you seem confused about Trumps policy in Iraq, here is a link to the relevant parts of Tillersons speech last week, where he laid it out

    http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2018/january/17/breaking-tillerson-unveils-new-us-syria-plan-assad-must-go/

    Point one was “Assad must go”

  198. Hyborian Warlord
    Posted January 22, 2018 at 10:55 pm | Permalink

    “Secretary Tillerson said today that new elections should be held in Syria and that President Assad should lose:
    The United States believes that free and transparent elections … will result in the permanent departure of Assad and his family from power… Assad’s regime is corrupt, and his methods of governance and economic development have increasingly excluded certain ethnic and religious groups… Such oppression cannot persist forever.”

    Pretty damn far from arming ISIS (!!!) to “take him out” the nasty way.

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  1. […] As we discussed last week, in hopes of avoiding a government shutdown, a bipartisan group of Senators led by Lindsey Graham and Dick Durbin went to the White House with a plan that, they told the President, would pass through both houses of Congress. The compromise legislation, they explained to Donald Trump, would both increase funding for border security and protect the 800,000 or so immigrants who came here as children and have been protected under DACA (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals) since the Obama administration. It would not, however, pay for the impractical and ridiculous southern border wall that Trump had promised his racist followers during the campaign. Nor would it strip immigrants, like those from “shithole” nations like Haiti, of their temporary protected status. [Both Graham and Durbin have confirmed that these were the sticking points, as well as the fact that Trump referred to Haiti and African nations as “shitholes”.] So, just to recap… Donald Trump was given a funding package that would have passed both houses of Congress, protected the 800,000 young immigrants covered under DACA, which is widely popular across both red and blue America, and increased funding for border security. And he not only turned it down, likely with input from immigration hardliners in his administration, like Stephen Miller, but called the compromise package a “big step backwards.” […]

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