“I want all of the girls watching here now to know, that a new day is on the horizon.”
Here is Oprah’s full speech accepting the 2018 Cecil B. DeMille Award. #GoldenGlobes pic.twitter.com/x2siib4WZI
— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) January 8, 2018
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205 Comments
Much better than writing about Stephen Miller.
With that said, though, I am still tweeting…
“Get on the The Trump train or shut the fuck up”
Unbelievable that anyone voted for that shithead. But, I guess, believable.
We are delusional as a people if we think anything good is going happen while this goes on
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/176369/tomgram%3A_engelhardt%2C_seeing_our_wars_for_the_first_time/#more
As much as I love the idea of an Oprah run, I’m inclined to say we need to step back from the idea of the celebrity president. I do find the idea of a Biden/Oprah ticket compelling, though. But, then again, I also like the idea of Biden/Yates 2020 to restore stability at home and credibility abroad. I think, after 4 years of Biden, though, whoever his Vice President is [Oprah, Yates, Harris] should take over and run for the next 8. We need at least 12 years to unravel the mess we’re in and put America back on the right track.
Oprah laying a big old smooch on Harvey
https://truepundit.com/oprah-finds-herself-in-the-middle-of-the-harvey-weinstein-scandal/
You really are a moron, HW. Weinstein was the most powerful man in Hollywood for a time. He has had his photo taken with absolutely everyone.
https://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/intelligencer/2017/10/11/11-donald-trump-harvey-weinstein.w710.h473.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/10/07/23/4521C20700000578-4959266-image-a-18_1507414963616.jpg
You don’t have to hang all over him though. You are the moron. I’m sure! It’s total hypocrisy. She ought to start naming some names if she is legit. Or is Harvey the sacrificial lamb to try to contain it? She’s not doing it though is she? She won’t talk about the adult abusers let alone the pedophiles in Hollywood. Corey Feldman did and at great personal risk at that. That is a hero. ‘Play It Safe’ Oprah is not at all. She might be yours and that’s alright for you but not for me.
Maybe she ought to have warned her, you think? I’m very sure Oprah had no idea what Weinstein’s behavior was like at that time though. She just couldn’t!
http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/movies/ct-weinstein-assault-lawsuit-20171128-story.html
“Noble detailed the incident to reporters, saying that she met Weinstein by chance in 2014 at an after-party for the British Academy Film Awards, where he introduced her to Oprah Winfrey and Naomi Campbell, and she felt dazzled and lucky when he said he was interested in her.”
“As much as I love the idea of an Oprah run, I’m inclined to say we need to step back from the idea of the celebrity president. ”
Ya think? That people are seriously entertaining the idea of another celebrity with zero political experience and zero experience in public service for the Presidency speaks to how ignorant the country has become.
We no longer value knowledge, skills and experience. We’d rather put our fate in the hands of Dwayne Johnson or Oprah Winfrey. Next time I need surgery, I’ll leave it up to one of the Wills: Smith or Farrell.
That’s an absurd state we’re in. We get decent candidates in and throw them away now because it takes too much time to read.
One celebrity president is enough! We need to figure out how to close the curtain on this one. Over and out.
Re: everyone in Hollywood having their picture taken with Weinstein
Maybe everyone in Hollywood is fucked.
Corey Feldman 2020.
(Biden will be almost 80! Put down your nostalgia and get some ideas. Ugh.)
Not sure what you are trying to say. Old news? This is from last year.
http://www.cnn.com/videos/cnnmoney/2017/11/09/corey-feldman-interview-carol-costello-lapd-hollywood-pedophilia.cnn
You don’t think exposing Hollywood pedophilia is a good idea? You said get some ideas so an obvious inference is you don’t think that is any kind of idea, let alone a good one.
Like Feldman for President? I wasn’t thinking that at all obviously. Interested in understanding what the Biden connection is there. His child grope compilations on youtube are infamous.
Oh I see with the nostalgia comment. You are trying to marginalize Feldman for being a has-been since the 80’s. You think maybe what he went through might have had something to do with that? Does his career going nowhere make what he is talking about now less important?
Kevin Spacey was a big time actor till last year when he was fired for “historic” abuses against teen boys. It’s not like “Well, that was a long time ago so it doesn’t matter now…the kid was a nobody anyway…”
Neo-liberal economic policies and neo-conservative foreign policy have “bi-partisan” support. Play the celebrity political game show while the political class happily gets paid off by the 1%.
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=376
HW – the nostalgia thing was about Biden from MMs post.
Take some deep breathes. It will be OK.
The comments section on this site does things one doesn’t expect.
Oh yeah it’s so nostalgic! Bwahaha!!! Creepy Joe!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy07yHAgM4E
Here, let me brew up a whole pot ‘o the ol’ Joe for ya.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxt5bhIcJis
I truly hope we can avoid either Biden or another celebrity candidate. Oprah’s a smart woman and I doubt she would seriously consider a run. She took it in the teeth trying to run her own network, hopefully she learned some humility about taking on monumental tasks she doesn’t have the knowledge base to accomplish well. We need to start acknowledging that not all people who inspire rousing crowds, even if they who run giant private enterprises, have the capacity to govern effectively. Oprah is very effective at moving the cultural dial forward. I appreciated her speech which was both personal and expansive (but did not present anything close to a new idea.) I hope she keeps at it and maybe directs her energy to supporting worthy progressive candidates, especially from marginalized groups.
As for Biden, I’m still mad at him about Anita Hill, and I also find him far too gropey of women. I don’t in any way mean to imply that he’s a harasser. I seriously doubt that. I just think he is really old and doesn’t really understand that his charm has limits and so should he. I cant believe that Biden is the best we have to offer.
The the Rock or any celebrity becomes our president, I will have to give up on this country all together.
Franken was an exception. He was engaged in politics all along, and he didn’t run for President. If Oprah or the Rock want to use their celebrity to turn a red seat blue in Congress, I’d be all for that. Let them prove their capacity in the trenches of Democracy.
“We need to start acknowledging that not all people who inspire rousing crowds, even if they who run giant private enterprises, have the capacity to govern effectively.”
Only an idiot would equate the ability to entertain with the ability to govern.
The Sander’s campaign was a complete joke. Fantastical claims! Big crowds! He would have been eaten alive and gotten nothing at all done.
Hyborian– Abuses of power exist where ever power exists. Hollywood is not exceptional in that regard. Child sexual abuse is pervasive. I guess I don’t see your point. Is this some kind of illuminati conspiracy theory where you think the wealthy all know everything that happens behind closed doors and collude to keep those doors closed? Because a quick study of human history will show you that power only works to perpetuate itself. All the other stuff comes along with it. And I bet most of us know someone with even a modicum of very situational power who was able to abuse that power without most of the people around him or her knowing about it. We give great legitimacy to people with power and deny it to those without. We have to start listening to those with less power. (Wasn’t that Oprah’s point?)
Which brings us back around to why celebrity and cultural sway should not be a qualification for high levels of governance, even if it may be tempting to harness that power to win.
The Mr. Warlord demands that people say this or that and call out this person or that, but rabidly defends an admitted sexual predator.
But, I guess they were all “dumb bitches” and asked for it.
Bull shit. You think Trump wasn’t surrounded by willing women? The most heinous claim fell apart as a lie – “Katie Johnson”. One supposed accuser came out on tv recently saying she was totally misrepresented and that Trump was a gentleman. Obviously he wasn’t saying you have to literally just go up to a woman and “grab her by the pussy”.
I’m saying playing it safe like Oprah is a coward’s game. Rose McGowan was as unimpressed as I am.
“And not one of those fancy people wearing black to honor our rapes would have lifted a finger had it not been so [if she hadn’t spoken out first]. I have no time for Hollywood fakery, but you I love, “
Whether he was surrounded by willing women is not the point.
He’s not the saint you paint him to be. If you were truly serious about sexual assault, you would call him out, too.
But you aren’t serious about anything unless it means “sticking it to liberals.” You are as empty as the people you call out because you pick and choose for political convenience,not based on a higher morality or because you truly want to help people.
Which is a sad state to be in. I feel bad for you.
“Obviously he wasn’t saying you have to literally just go up to a woman and “grab her by the pussy”.”
Obviously, he was.
To you but you could be wrong and probably are. You automatically take it like that because that is your reality tunnel. You can’t even think of anything else.
I am for sticking it to all the real abusers. A bunch of Dems and Repubs alike have either resigned or will not be seeking election. Many more will fall very soon and the accusations will be more serious. Just letting you know so you can get ready. It’s way bigger than you could currently believe.
Speaking of sex abuse ( https://nypost.com/2017/11/03/portfolio-manager-accused-of-raping-beating-women-in-penthouse-dungeon/ ) anyone heard from George Soros lately? He used to tweet every few days or so but hasn’t tweeted for like a month and a half. I’m worried hahahaha.
HW– Trump was accused of assaulting several teenage girls. There were lawsuits against him. His lawyers settled or got the charges dismissed on technicalities. He has a whole team defending, creating diversions, and providing cover for him at all times. Sound familiar?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2lMN3kIjAA
No one ever paid Bill Clinton’s rape victims to come forward.
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/365068-exclusive-prominent-lawyer-sought-donor-cash-for-two-trump-accusers
They sure did pay Clinton’s accusers.
At any rate, why are you diverting to a Clinton accusation again. I thought you were for accountability across the board. So far Trump has offered no real defense against the accusations except outright, across the board, denials– and the remarkable statement by Sarah Huckabee Sanders that his election resolved the question of his culpability.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/12/12/a-running-list-of-the-eyewitnesses-who-prove-trumps-innocence-on-sexual-misconduct/?utm_term=.e15b6af0853b
Who paid who? When?
Please note that several of Trump’s accusers specifically mention that he put his hand up their skirts and grabbed their genitals without warning or consent.
HW– I’ll answer your question when you address the accusations against Trump. Or just google it. It’s all there, outside your normal field of reference probably. I’m not playing to your diversion. You never address it when people point up your own hypocrisy and bull shit. You just counter-attack. Wonder who you learned that from? Taking a page from your hero I guess.
I have addressed it. Clinton’s lil buddy is making payouts to women who are willing to make claims about Trump. The Katie Johnson suit was dropped because information came out proving she was lying. I think it was that Epstein did not even have a place in NYC at that time. It smells really bad of dirty DNC lies.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-campaign-2016-updates-morning-woman-who-accuses-the-clintons-got-paid-1476109925-htmlstory.html
I said no one paid them to come forward. They all did decades ago.
It works both ways. Paula Jones was also paid. The American Spectator, which disclosed her accusation, received $1.8 million for research against the Clintons from a GOP donor. Then her lawsuit (which resulted in an 800k settlement for her) was paid for by a conservative PAC. This is just what’s above board.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/31/us/politics/sexual-harassment-politics-partisanship.html
Obviously accusations against Presidents will get meddled with by people trying to influence election outcomes on both sides. It’s important to look at how the accused have defended themselves or not. In that, neither Bill Clinton nor Trump offered much. None of this means the accusations of any of these women are either true or false. Can we at least agree upon that?
Please note that Obama faced no accusations of such behavior. It is possible to have a scandal free presidency.
https://www.nytimes.com/subscriptions/Multiproduct/lp8L3TR.html
Notice she brought suit right away and told her story. Her husband committed Arkancide when she came out with it. She should have got way more than that from the Clintons themselves. She could have lost. There was no guarantee she would have got anything when she came forward.
How different is that then Dem operatives going around offering money to come forward with every kiss and butt pat they can come up with? Plus making up really heinous crimes? Let’s be real about the scope of abuse in this country. I see Trump attacking the most exploitive criminal networks promoting crimes against human beings including the most serious forms of child abuse.
Conservative Bill Kristol is backing Oprah.
“Oprah: Sounder on economics than Bernie Sanders, understands Middle America better than Elizabeth Warren, less touchy-feely than Joe Biden, more pleasant than Andrew Cuomo, more charismatic than John Hickenlooper. #ImWithHer”
Republicans ran and supported Roy Moore. Trump supported Roy Moore.
Yet, the Mr. Warlord says nothing, which makes him an enabler of pedophilia. So, we can only assume that the Mr. Warlord has no problem with pedophilia when it is done by his political allies.
Roy Moore same deal: Dems paying for statements. Moore says polygraph results have been delivered to court and they show he is telling the truth.
Spokeswoman interviewed on Clinton News Network
http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2017/12/28/roy-moore-spokeswoman-polygraph-test.cnn
Bill Kristol is an idiot. Also a conservative…
Trump’s (last minute) support for Moore was conditional. He said if the allegations are true he should get out.
The Mr. Warlord is happy to give pedophiles a free pass when it suits him.
Clearly, you don’t hold right wingers to the same standard.
Sad. We can only assume that through the help of people like the Mr. Warlord, that pedophilia will continue.
It’s not the same circumstances so that is incorrect. It’s amazing how much you fail to understand logic.
It’s really quite comedic, the lengths the right wing will go to excuse their idols.
St. Trump can do no wrong.
This place is a hotbed of irony and not the funny, self-aware kind.
Pedophilia has “circumstances.”
Wow. So sometimes, it’s ok.
I told you I am not “right wing”. I think the right/left illusion is an embarrassing fraud. What was that Biden said to the congressman? “Different Party, Same Thing.”
Right and wrong – that is something I relate to.
No, I’m betting the Moore claim is B.S. How do you get through life being this obtuse? Jeez
You “bet” that the evidence that Roy “Mallcrawler” Moore is “B.S.”
Which means that you don’t take pedophilia seriously enough to holds claims against the very right wing Roy Moore to the same standard as you do anyone associated with the Democratic Party.
The Mr. Warlord does not take pedophilia seriously. I guess those “dumb bitches” must have deserved it. Or they are lying. Either way, they are “dumb bitches.”
Wow.
“Right and wrong – that is something I relate to.”
Lol.
Bullshit. You stink so fuckin’ bad, dude.
All you do is fuckin’ lie. How do you live with yourself? You’re just used to the stink I bet.
Wow.
The truth is there. The Mr. Warlord is fine with pedophilia if it is politically convenient for him.
I find EOS reprehensible, but to her credit, she can put coherent sentences together.
You are absolutely disgusting you lying piece of shit. I will not forget what you have said about me.
The Mr. Warlord is willing to excuse pedophilia if it is politically convenient to him.
Yes, please don’t forget it. In fact, it would be to your credit if you took some time and thought about it for a while.
You think you can lie about me because you are half a world away. Well it is a small world, my friend and you might cross my path again. I won’t beat you up or anything but it will not be pleasant to deal with me after saying something like that.
The Mr. Warlord is willing to excuse pedophilia if it is politically convenient to him.
Wow. A threat.
This has been a truly entertaining exchange.
To be fair, the Mr. Warlord is not alone. He should take comfort in that fact.
The entire Republican Party appears to share his same lack of concern over pedophilia when politics come into play.
The Mr. Warlord and the Republican Party are willing to excuse or overlook pedophilia if it is politically convenient to them.
Keep digging your hole. Homeboy took a polygraph and passed and now he says let’s all take one with an administrator they all agree on. That doesn’t sound guilty. How do you think you know for a fact any of these claims are legit? Let’s have everyone do the independent exam and let’s see. If he molested someone underage let him burn.
I do not give a shit if he is Republican or Democrat one bit. When Trent Franks resigned I was like cool, hounding his employee to be a surrogate sounded creepy as shit and where did he get $5 million to offer? There are a bunch of them on both sides that need to go down and will. That’s good. You are wrong about me.
At what point do we as a community consider banning someone?
The Mr. Warlord should stick around.
I gain important insights into the level of willful ignorance that lead to a pedophile like Roy Moore, or a sexual ingrate like Donald Trump into office.
Plus, his writing is so, like, entertaining cause he is like cool so legit. It’s like a local version of Donald Trump’s sophomoric tweets.
The Mr. Warlord is perfectly willing to excuse (conspiracy!) or overlook pedophilia and sexual assault if it suits his political goals.
Entertaining, to say the least.
Pres. Trump at farm convention: “Oh, are you happy you voted for me. You are so lucky that I gave you that privilege.”
http://abcn.ws/2DbWvQo
Trump taking credit for low unemployment rates among black people, despite unemployment rates among black people dropping at a constant rate since 2009.
His adoring fans will no doubt fail to explore his absurd claims. I suspect that black people aren’t so gullible.
What a buffoon.
“Homeboy [Roy Moore] took a polygraph and passed and now he says let’s all take one with an administrator they all agree on. That doesn’t sound guilty.”
Moore is grasping at straws. HW runs with it. HW sees Roy Moore, a pedophile, as his homeboy, because he is not partisan but simply believes in right and wrong..
http://www.newsweek.com/roy-moore-says-he-took-polygraph-it-wont-tell-us-anything-because-tests-dont-762254
Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t think I’d ever call an accused pedophile a “homeboy” in a public space.
Well, I wouldn’t call one a “homeboy” in private either. I also wouldn’t trust an accused pedophile to come clean easily, either but the Mr. Warlord is willing to put skepticism aside simply because it suits him politically.
Not only is the Mr. Warlord is willing to excuse or overlook pedophilia when it suits him politically, he’s willing to call a pedophile a friend,
People who do not agree with HW are disgusting and stupid, because he believes in right and wrong. But not in democracy, apparently.
My favorite part is where he promises to be unpleasant to deal with. I’m wondering if he thinks he’s being pleasant in this space.
HW has great self-esteem in his own view, and yet he is is very easily provoked into nonsensical rage and invective. (It’s far too tempting.) He must be a stable genius like our president.
He is a comedic individual.
Back to Oprah’s prospects for president. My 12 year old son weighs in: “Well she’s a talk show host… At least she can talk.”
That’s where the bar is.
12 year olds in America have experienced two presidents: Obama and Trump. We need to offer them someone who raises the bar back up.
Iron Lung and Jean Henry ought to be banned if anyone. That is a very serious thing to say about someone. Both these scumbags are lying your asses off about me. Following your logic you are protecting pedophiles by harassing someone speaking critically about the issue. I didn’t say “my” homeboy like yeah that’s my man. The worst any of us know is he was accused. I never said every accuser is legit because that is not true. I sure as hell have not said that I know the truth about Moore nor have I supported Moore at all. Trump might very well have intelligence on the situation none of us have access to. None of us know for sure. It seems like you only give a shit about pedophile crimes if you think you can score points with an accusation.
I stand by my statement.
The Mr. Warlord is willing to excuse or overlook pedophilia if it suits his political goals. Like the Republican Party.
One would assume that this would be a time for self-reflection, but no, the Mr. Warlord continues to defend accused pedophile, Roy “Homeboy” Moore.
Interesting.
“Trump might very well have intelligence on the situation none of us have access to.”
lol
HW– Didn’t you accuse me of making light of pedophilia and tell me I would burn in hell, when I posted a satiric doc on mass hysteria that used pedophilia as the vector?
“That is a very serious thing to say about someone.”
I didn’t defend someone accused of the same, much less call them my homeboy.
That’s libel, Pete Larsen.
I didn’t either, dumbass. You people are going to be so screwed. I can’t wait. It’s coming and it’s not any kind of joke.
libel – “a published false statement that is damaging to a person’s reputation; a written defamation.”
For one, given the evidence here, it is true.
Second, there has been no damage to your “reputation” as no one know who you are, besides me.
So no, this is not libel.
“You people are going to be so screwed. I can’t wait. It’s coming and it’s not any kind of joke.”
Most likely, life will hobble along as it always does.
You can’t libel an anonymous persona. For all we know, HW is either really what IL says she is, many different posters using the same name, or a Eusdian troll bot.
Bull fucking shit. I just said IF HE IS GUILTY LET HIM BURN. None of you have ever said anything like that about the Clintons, etc. What you said is absolutely a false statement and it is purely designed to damage my reputation. My identity could easily be discovered.
I am finding all this entertaining.
Mr. Warlord,
No one cares about you, man.
Why should I care about you saying that?
“lol”
You haven’t thought this through. Does the Commander in Chief not have Military Intelligence at his disposal?
Dude, you’re daft.
Haha
I don’t mind being called daft by a tool of the system. I would be worried if you thought I was cool. Just don’t go overboard with the serious accusations.
Or what
Or you’ll be a piece of shit as well as a tool.
Lol
I mean you already are but you can begin to rehabilitate yourself at any time.
“One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision.”
– Bertrand Russell
For HW: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
I know that quote well. Both those apply to you and not me, I guarantee it. My info is so far over your head you can’t even see it.
“Rehabilitate”
From the guy who is willing to give a pedophile a free pass because to do otherwise would compromise his support for an admitted sexual predator.
The Mr. Warlord has access to special intelligence
Lol
What a scumbag you are.
That’s exactly what you do and I do not. You don’t give a shit people like the Clinton’s went down to Jeffery Epstein’s underage sex slave island every chance they got. That’s the real shit.
“The Mr. Warlord has access to special intelligence
Lol”
Yeah, I’m the Commander in Chief. Dur!
This is definitely the most entertaining thread I have seen in a while.
That’s ’cause you are a troll.
Lol
Lol
Even Maynard knows it. “…when Larsen is in troll mode…”
Lol lol
lol lol lol – the sound of an idiotic troll doing what they do…
Rofl
An entertaining thread.
Now that the entertainment is done, back to the topic at hand.
There is no way I’d vote for Oprah, in the primary or the general. The Democratic Party can’t allow itself to fall into the same cartoon world that the Republican Party has.
Some people are saying that “Oprah is our only hope against Trump” but the country shouldn’t devolve into this world of “ratings” and “likes” that Trump has ushered in, as opposed to experience and ability.
But oh well.
Do you mean this Jeffrey Epstein (say, who is the fellow with his arm around Epstein in this photo)?
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/portrait-of-american-financier-jeffrey-epstein-and-real-news-photo/681946576
Trump, interviewed by New York magazine in 2002:
“I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy,” Trump booms from a speakerphone. “He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”
I hate to say it, but you have a good point, Stupid Hick. I would be a hypocrite if I didn’t acknowledge that Donald Trump’s long-running association with Jeffery Epstein at least as suspicious as what Alex Jones has to say about the Clintons.
That’s a sly dig AT Epstein. The pedos don’t go around saying that. Trump kicked him out of Mar a Lago for propositioning young girls. Notice no one has claimed Trump went to his sex slave island like the Clinton’s.
Not just Alex Jones. Everyone knows it. Flight logs in the news. Oh no it’s not the Clinton News Network! Well I try to spoonfeed you with your own sources when I can.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2922773/Newly-released-flight-logs-reveal-time-trips-Bill-Clinton-Harvard-law-professor-Alan-Dershowitz-took-pedophile-Jeffrey-Epstein-s-Lolita-Express-private-jet-anonymous-women.html
Fox – oh no! Come on. These news outlets are for babies anyway, including Fox. You have to look long and hard to get good info. Sometimes they have something useful though.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/05/13/flight-logs-show-bill-clinton-flew-on-sex-offenders-jet-much-more-than-previously-known.html
Oh, it’s s sly dig AT Epstein. So what you’re saying is 6 years before Epstein was convicted, Donald Trump had knowledge he was a pedophile, but instead of going to the police, he instead made a subtle reference to it in a magazine interview?
“In 2010, Epstein pled the Fifth when asked by a lawyer representing one of Epstein’s victims about his relationship with Trump:
Q: Have you ever had a personal relationship with Donald Trump?
A. What do you mean by “personal relationship,” sir?
Q. Have you socialized with him?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Yes?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you ever socialized with Donald Trump in the presence of females under the age of 18?
A: Though I’d like to answer that question, at least today I’m going to have to assert my Fifth, Sixth, and 14th Amendment rights, sir.”
https://news.vice.com/article/the-salacious-ammo-even-donald-trump-wont-use-in-a-fight-against-hillary-clinton-bill-clinton
That’s right. Trump has known about the pedophilia all along. He is working with white hats in intelligence to stop it now. It could be that he was a consumer of Epstein’s blackmail knowledge at some time. You understand that people who went to the island were photographed in compromising positions, right?
Throwing the “unemployment rate” around and bragging as Trump did that he has done so much for black folks, and working folks is propaganda. The only reason the unemployment rate has continued to fall is the participation rate in the economy continues to fall, more people don’t have full time jobs. Nearly 5% fewer Americans 16 and older are even attempting to participate in our economy.
https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000
The same lie has been used by every administration for decades. Republican or Democrat they use false statistics to support the same Neo-liberal economic policies, while us poor working folks are continuously being trickled down upon.
For statistics that are meaningful see
http://www.shadowstats.com/
The answer would have been yes because Mar a Lago did have girls like the daughter of one of the members that Epstein propositioned. Trump kicked him out for that. He was never a member there. Like I said I could see Trump being interested in the compromising information on people like the Clintons or whoever it was back then.
A useful chart showing the official Unemployment rate as reported in the headlines. The official Unemployment rate including those folks who part-time jobs who want full time jobs and the shadowfacts unemployment rate, which uses the methodology we used from the great depression through the 1970’s.
http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/unemployment-charts
Went down the worm hole… I try not to make it a practice to defend Bill Clinton, but multiple FOIA requests of Secret Service records show no evidence that Clinton was on those supposed 26 flights on Epstein’s plane. He took Epstein’s plane to a wedding in Paris (with Chelsea on board) and at another time to Africa for a conference accompanied by Kevin Spacey among others, which is about as close as there is to any evidence of hanging out with pedophiles. Still think he’s an asshole though.
Trump’s ties to Epstein run much deeper and longer. No president former or current or prospective should be taking weekend trips with creeps like Epstein. I miss Obama.
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/04/jeffrey-epstein-trump-lawsuit-sex-trafficking-237983
I was wrong, the shadowstats methodology was actually used until 1994. Using that methodology our current unemployment rate is in excess of 22%, which might be why despite nearly 8 years of an “expanding economy” nearly one third of Michiganders between the ages of 18 and 34 still live at their parents home.
http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/12/which_michigan_county_ranks_fi.html
“On average, a third of Michigan residents age 18 to 34 — 33.5 percent — live with their parents, making that the most-common living arrangement for people in that age group.”
But by all means lets keep the Trump/Clinton side show going instead of dealing with the realities that effect most working folks
Wobblie– you don’t think college debt has anything to do with that statistic? Or personal preference? All that helicopter parenting?
I’m interested in hearing what other people think of this alternative 22% unemployment statistic. I don’t know enough to assess it.
No surprise the FOIA requests turned up nothing. Fox said the SS didn’t comply. Too bad FAA flight logs are a thing.
“Official flight logs filed with the Federal Aviation Administration show Clinton traveled on some of the trips with as many as 10 U.S. Secret Service agents. However, on a five-leg Asia trip between May 22 and May 25, 2002, not a single Secret Service agent is listed. The U.S. Secret Service has declined to answer multiple Freedom of Information Act requests filed by FoxNews.com seeking information on these trips. Clinton would have been required to file a form to dismiss the agent detail, a former Secret Service agent told FoxNews.com.”
Oh digging into shadow stats was fun. That guy just manipulates data to paint the owrst possible picture, whether of inflation or unemployment.
https://www.themaven.net/economonitor/emerging-markets/deconstructing-shadowstats-part-2-in-search-of-an-alternative-measure-of-unemployment-1jGh1VQ7MEOtFIbiiKzS4Q?full=1
https://azizonomics.com/2013/06/01/the-trouble-with-shadowstats/
I read the same Fox News piece, HW. It’s assertions have been debunked and the one flight log shown was accounted for in the politico article.
How do you debunk an official flight log? You have got to be kidding me.
“the one flight log shown was accounted for in the politico article”
Where in the article? Accounted for how? Looks like he was going from MIA to somewhere. Little St. James you think? Naaawww!
Starts with an H…Where might a Clinton go on the Lolita Express that starts with an H?
Epstein was a member at Mar A Lago, Trump had a personal relationship with him going back decades, and Trump didn’t cut ties with him until after he was convicted. These are all easily findable facts that you may not like but they’re true. Epstein plead the 5th when questioned about socializing with Donald Trump together with underage girls. The 5th can only be plead when you are asserting you believe a truthful answer will implicate you in a crime. Remember it was you who brought up Epstein, yet you refuse to apply the same logic to Trump that you do to Clinton. That’s the very definition of unprincipled, partisan, corruption and it’s why you deserve the scorn you earn here. Do you understand? Of course not. Carry on, moron.
Could be HI. Next flight appears to depart from HON.
Show me your best links then. When was he a member? Trump said he never paid but wanted to be there anyway. How many times did Trump hang out with him after his conviction? Epstein probably didn’t want to tar Trump by his own association. It is very possible back in the day Trump bought information on people (blackmail) from him and that was the nature of their association. That’s how he knew for a fact.
Hey, all you pieces of shit! Your abuse that you try heaping on me is going to go back to you one way or another. I can dish out plenty if you want it. Karma has a way of fucking your shit up too in case you haven’t figured that out yet. “Vindication comes fast these days.”
“Epstein probably didn’t want to tar Trump by his own association. It is very possible back in the day Trump bought information on people (blackmail) from him and that was the nature of their association. That’s how he knew for a fact.”
You hopeless, lost, manchild, these are not facts, they are a weak reflection of your butthurt feelings, as you struggle to concoct an alternate reality where your hero might only be a blackmailer, instead of a pedophile enabler.
I’m telling you this for your own good, you pitiable fool. You deserve the scorn you get and you should be grateful people like Jean Henry and Iron Lung are so gentle with you.
If Trump raped kids or caused them to be raped I’ll be all over it. I have studied all this shit way more than all of you put together. I didn’t say he blackmailed anyone. He could have sat on it until he needed it. Just knowing ab0ut what happens there is extremely valuable information. If you wanted to destroy elite child abuse networks it could be everything.
Wow. So you accept that Trump was aware of a pedophile ring operated by someone who in 2002 he knew for 15 years, and referred to as “a terrific guy” and “a lot of fun to be with”, who in his own words “likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side”. But instead of go to the police in the 15 years before that interview in 2002, or 6 more years until 2008 when Epstein was convicted, you say it makes perfect sense for Trump to sit on that information until he needed it. That’s your explanation, in which you admit you have no problem your hero would suppress his knowledge of child sexual exploitation until such time as its release might benefit him personally. That makes sense to you, and you would accept that. Wow. I’m going to pray for you. Please get some help.
Look, I think your theories are shit, and more than anything are a product of you contorting your fantasy world to protect your ego. But wow, the explanation you think makes Trump look smart is one where he would conceal child exploitation for years, until he thought it would benefit him to reveal it. That’s the reality you imagine, a reality in which Trump would not lose your support. That’s why you deserve the scorn you earn.
I was thinking exactly the same thing as Warlord. I was wrong. I’m so ashamed. Will you all please forgive me?
JH, ” That guy just manipulates data to paint the owrst possible picture, whether of inflation or unemployment. ”
Conversely the government just manipulates the data to present the best picture possible. The Government changed their methodology on inflation under the Reagan administration. One of the “statistical” reasons the “Carter” inflation was eliminated under Reagan. The Clinton administration changed the UI methodology in 1994 and presto we had “full employment”. Under the current methodology we are currently at “full employment”. The need for workers should be so great that wages would be inexorably going up.
When was the last time anyone got a pay increase bigger than the artificial rate of inflation of 2 to 3 %.
Until the Democrats actually start confronting the real world problems the vast majority face they will continue to shrink as a political factor.
JH, you and IL are in many ways the mirror image of EOS and HW. Caught up in the matrix of lies and propaganda that is used to manipulate the population and keep us divided. The plutocracy used to use ethnicity to keep folks divided. Henry Ford and Bennet mastered this technique by importing workers from all over the world. Not having a common language was key to keeping them divided and unable to work out solutions to their common problems. The fixation on “identity politics” is just the 21st. century manifestation of this same strategy.
No, he waited until he had the power to do something about it. It was wrapped up until now with Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush. Now Trump is in charge and you are going to start seeing what I am talking about. The importance of the EO on Corruption and Human Rights abuse cannot be overstated. The USA is in a State of Emergency about it right now. Look it up.
I poured over all this shit before casting my ballot. I had all but decided I would not vote for Trump until the very last day. The Katie Johnson case was in the news and it sounded bad. Then there was Trump’s association with Epstein. I thought extremely hard about it until I went down to vote. Katie Johnson seemed too phony. It smelled like a frame-up. I saw signs Trump’s relationship with Epstein was different. He wasn’t going to the island like these sexual abuse crackheads the Clinton’s. His interest was in the people like them and Prince Andrew and the others who frequented the island.
JH, your comment about college debt being the reason for young people still living at home is simply not in line with the facts. According to the US Census info contained in the MLive article I linked to above, “Keweenaw County, Michigan’s northernmost and lowest-populated county, has the highest percentage of millennials who live with their parents, according to the most recent estimates by the U.S. Census Bureau.
The Census estimates that more than half of Keweenaw residents age 18 to 34 live with their parents, based on the Census Bureau’s estimated five-year county average for 2012-16.”
According to https://statisticalatlas.com/county/Michigan/Keweenaw-County/Educational-Attainment
Only 8.2% of 25-34 have a bachelor degree or higher.
I think it probably has more to do with the absence of any economic prospects for the vast majority of rural Americans. Though I do agree that free universally available college would benefit America. What is the Democrats current position on that policy?
Oh wait look there is a squirrel.
Wobblie— call me crazy if you must, but I believe statistical measures should be made up from actual data, not moved up or down via a formula to ‘correct’ them.
See the 2 articles I posted examining shadow data, and please respond to them rather than from assumptions made about my one line summary.
I could very well be wrong about college debt. That’s why I framed it as a question.
I left my hometown with double digit unemployment and few prospects for women, educated or not. Sometimes you get stuck if you stay where you grew up. The areas surrounding my county have since become much more upwardly mobile with solid new industry jobs. My home county is far behind the curve. My parents could tell you in detail how economic development missed my county and favored those around it. It’s mostlyabout local politics (Bethlehem steel didn’t want competition for its labor pool and worked over the local politicians). I don’t know what’s up in the UP but my guess is the story has greater complexity than you are offering up in your analysis. Aren’t you one of those lefties who supports protectionist policies to protect industry jobs? Mining jobs for the win! So we can never move forward or Address climate change? Why are you such a shill for giant corporate dinosaurs? The Keewenau is a gorgeous place and will benefit from scarcer population. Did you know the American environmental movement had its start over outrage at the destruction of the UP for lumber and minerals? The place was stripped bare. It was a booming place then. <>
“JH, you and IL are in many ways the mirror image of EOS and HW. Caught up in the matrix of lies and propaganda that is used to manipulate the population and keep us divided. ”
lol
“If Trump raped kids or caused them to be raped I’ll be all over it. ”
As he did nothing about it, despite knowing it, he was a part of it.
Trump let kids get raped. Likely, beause doing anything about it would have made him look bad.
Trump doesn’t seem to have much of a problem with child rape (or any other kind), but the outcome is the same.
He was able to overlook pedophilia because overlooking it suited his personal priorities.
I think it unlikely that most people who live at home with their parents do so because of college debt. College loans are easy to postpone and easy to run away from (temporarily) since there’s nothing they can take (unlike and auto or a house loan.)
Your thought process is so infantile. You never imagined using a long term strategy to win what once seemed to be an impossible victory over a monster opponent. Trump is changing the world. Saudi Arabia’s corrupt princes got busted not too long after who made a mysterious visit? USA, Europe and Asia are next. It’s already happening.
I can tell you one thing that’s already happened. Every time I hear Trump I get a craving for a Big Mac. I can almost taste it.
There are a LOT of factors behind why younger people are living at home longer but they boil down to two main things.
1. wages are lower than they have been for those at the bottom. The top 20% are doing ok but for many many reasons we have a labor surplus in most sectors which is depressing wages for the bottom 80% of workers even while that top 20% is doing much better.
2. It is significantly harder for most young people to get mortgages than it was before the housing crash. This is especially so in areas with good jobs. This has caused rents to go up a lot so it may seem less worth it.
There are other factors too and not all of them are negative. I have talked to a lot of young people who even when in that top 20% of earners, are just culturally different than Baby Boomers and Gen Xers in that they are more likely to reject materialism outright. They don’t want the encumbrance of owning a house or even renting one so they live at home and save their money.
A side benefit of having political beliefs that are relatively informed and independent (though clearly liberal Progressive), and interested in questions as well as answers, is that one will be derided by people from all political perspectives as being something they are not. I enjoy being wrong but this is rarely about that. It’s anout being somehow ethically or morally wrong… like finger waving wrong. Oh and mean. Or I should say ‘disagreeable.’ It’s considered impolite to disagree in our democracy today. That’s fucked up. I have been called everything now. Its like being a political projection screen for an ever-changing panopoly of fears and assumptions. Ironically the most upsetting thing you can be in today’s political climate is hard to pin down ideologically.
(This is where HW, Trumps most loyal defender, declares himself politically independent.)
I did some reading about Oprah last night.
She is simply a Reagan era neoliberal.
I am stunned that liberals are getting behind her. Her “philosophy” is based on blaming the victim for their suffering, while ignoring the outside factors which contribute to that suffering.
Her solution to a 60 hour shitty desk job is to decorate your shitty cubicle, instead of calling for a shorter work week or improved labor conditions. She blames rape victims for “being out alone at night.” She suggests that people unhappy with their lives simply ignore all the things that make them unhappy, implying that their unhappiness is their own fault.
Oprah is a Reagan era monster. The type of public policy that would come out of this wretched individual would simply be more of the “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” policy that dominated the 80s and the early 90s.
Trouble is that liberals are so enamored of her, they don’t see the wider implications of what she offers.
Joss Whedon did a great take down of Oprah in one of the early seasons of Buffy, the Vampire Slayer. People would do well to watch it.
Oprah is a sham. She is liberals worst nightmare, dressed up in liberal clothing and saying all the right things to keep people on board with her.
I have seldom seen a person less self aware and more brainwashed than HW so fwiw, I agree that it is likely that he sees himself as some kind of political independent even though it is obvious to me that he doesn’t think for himself and just parrots other people’s talking points. I don’t know why you guys still engage with him much less do all the fact checking of his posts that you do. But to each their own I guess. I know I sometimes engage with people like him but for bad reasons (talking to guys like him makes me feel superior since they are so obviously inferior to me in every way)
JH, “Protectionism” is another neo-liberal economic bug a boo. Capitalist will always move to those areas that allow them the cheapest labor possible along with the ability to externalize as many cost as possible. Thus the movement of manufacturing first to the non-union, non-protecting the environment southern states, and then with those great neo-liberal trade pacts starting with NAFTA, to Mexico and beyond.
Thus, “protectionism” combined with sound environmental policies ie. you can not externalize the environmental cost of your production activity would be a way forward. A carbon tax for example, is a way of making producers pay one of the true social cost of production. Those same neo-liberal economic policies you seem to favor; ( if we had carbon tax and applied it to imports,) would say that is nothing more than a form of protectionism.
I say protectionism for the people and the environment is a social good.
As far as statistics go, you can almost always find a way to lie with them. My main point is that if you are going to compare say, unemployment today vs. during the great depression it would be nice if you used the same methodology to arrive at the data you are comparing. I think all of us who work in the real economy have realized for years that the inflation rate they regularly tout has little connection to our day to day reality. That was by design under the Reagan economist, just as redesigning the UI statistics under Clinton were for political purposes.
Labor economist have known for years that the economy needs to add approx. 200,000 new jobs per month in order to absorb our increasing population. The headlines regularly tout the “expanding” economy even if the numbers are less than 200,000. The December job numbers were “disappointing” with only 148,000 new jobs. 50,000 folks who would under normal circumstances want to enter the job market would not be able to find employment. You might ask “why didn’t the unemployment rate go up?’. Because more than 50,000 people had been unemployed for so long that they have given up looking for work. In the rural areas of our country it is obvious, but it is clear here in Ypsilanti if you look.
The solution you seem to advance is move. Economic migration ie. impose the cost of capital seeking the highest rate of return onto the victims of capital migration.
As I said earlier Protectionism for the people and the environment is a social good.
I did look at the two articles you posted. The first contained at least one substantial error in the second paragraph “. (The civilian labor force includes all people 16 years and older who are not in prison or the armed services.)” This is factually incorrect. There are numerous other categories of people who are excluded. I do not want to waste yours or my time engaging in a line by line analysis, I think my point is clear above.
I apologize to both JH and IL for equating you with EOS and HW–my bad, and I hope you will forgive my transgression.
to supplement Iron lungs comment above:
https://amp.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2015/may/09/oprah-winfrey-neoliberal-capitalist-thinkers?__twitter_impression=true
I was just looking at the Trans Pacific Partnership (we need to be thankful it failed). It specifically looked at environmental regulations as a form of protectionism in disguise, or at least made it possible to attack environmental regulations through trade sanctions and the like.
If I remember correctly Obama continued to advocate for the TPP, and I believe (though I am not certain) that the Democratic party national committee refused to oppose the deal
“I apologize to both JH and IL for equating you with EOS and HW–my bad, and I hope you will forgive my transgression.”
Assuming it is sincere, you are forgiven.
I don’t want to really comment on the possibility of Oprah running for president but will anyways. LOL
I don’t think it is going to happen. I do not think there is any real chance that she will run. However, I think the fact that so many want her to run is interesting although I have noticed that most of those I engage with politically do not think she should run. Those who do think she should run don’t particularly think she will be a great president but rather, they think we have to accept that Americans are stupid and overly influenced by celebrity and thus liberals need to fight fire with fire so to speak. I am not sure what I think about that since I happen to agree to that Americans are stupid and overly influenced by celebrity. I guess I just don’t want to admit it enough to go down the road of essentially electing impotent figureheads only because they are likely to work with the people I like in Congress.
Personally, I *love* her as a person but like many, I don’t think she would be a good president for all of the reasons mentioned here previously and more. I don’t think it is going to happen. I also don’t think Biden has much of a chance either.
After learning more about her, I very much dislike her as a person.
She’s a Reagan era Republican in liberal clothing.
“I have seldom seen a person less self aware and more brainwashed than HW so fwiw, I agree that it is likely that he sees himself as some kind of political independent even though it is obvious to me that he doesn’t think for himself and just parrots other people’s talking points. I don’t know why you guys still engage with him much less do all the fact checking of his posts that you do. But to each their own I guess. I know I sometimes engage with people like him but for bad reasons (talking to guys like him makes me feel superior since they are so obviously inferior to me in every way)”
Bwahaha! Parody of a parody – that’s you but you don’t even know it. All the fact-checking! Jean with her magic debunking wand – anything she says is debunked is debunked…even though it is not at all.
Having another perspective is not being debunked. Bring shown to have misrepresented the truth is being de-bunked. I am often factually wrong and when so and called on it, I admit the same. How often do you do that HW?
Wobblie— I don’t give two figs what people here think of me. I gave that up a long time ago. Bring compared to HW and EOS is fascinating, especially in context of other perspectives. I cared about politics and had my own thoughts about it for a very long time with little avenue for discussion. It’s nice to come here and work out my thinking. I believe that’s why most of us are here.
Speaking of which, can you point to a nation where what we call protectionism created the social and environmental good you say it promotes?
It seems to me that US industry protected from competition from abroad was less environmentally sound historically. Think of all those giant American cars.
Like IL the more I learn about Oprah the less I like her. Never was a fan. She obviously smarter and better read than the current occupant of the White House
JH, the American textile industry was the most recent industry that was wiped out. I’m just going from memory, but it was as recently as 2000 or so that their were still 10’s of thousands of jobs in the southern states (Carolina’s and Mississippi primarily) where sheets, pillow cases and assorted other textiles were manufactured. We lifted the quotes on imports from various Asian countries, and within about two years all those folks lost their jobs. Look and see if you can find a pillow case made in the US, where as recently as the beginning of the century they dominated the market. Places like Tupulo Mississippi have not been able to bring new employment in to replace those lost jobs.
Prior to that Amanda, Whirlpool, and other appliance manufactures moved out. Both of these industries were primarily situated in more rural areas and were the primary “good” jobs that folks could get. Amanda leaving central Iowa has still left those communities in central Iowa in the economic pits.
The US environmental laws have constantly been undermined by the capitalist class.
“Speaking of which, can you point to a nation where what we call protectionism created the social and environmental good you say it promotes? ” India is trying to do this now but is under constant attack by WTO and other neo-liberal economic institutions. Bolivia is another–again under constant attack by the WTO.
Argentina is a third–forced into bankruptcy twice by the World Bank and WTO but still pursuing a more sane and democratic economic policy.
wobblie, those trade agreements just caused jobs to be lost sooner than they otherwise would have been but the hard truth is that most manufacturing jobs were likely to be lost anyways to tech.
“Like IL the more I learn about Oprah the less I like her.”
how much did you learn about Recy Taylor?
KJC— I think it has been acknowledged by all parties that she gave a good speech about equity and empowerment. Giving an inspiring speech about such subjects, even caring deeply about such subjects, does not make one suitable for office or even inherently Progressive. Oprah has done her share of spiritual and medical and financial and psychological snake oil sales to the desperate. In my mind, electing her would be a few notches above electing Gwyneth Paltrow. Recy Taylor’s story was compelling. (And yes I knew it); what does that have to do with Oprah’s qualifications for president? Reagan used to tell a good story too. People falling for them gave me nightmares.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/01/people-are-completely-missing-the-point-of-oprahs-amazing-golden-globes-speech.html
“Giving an inspiring speech about such subjects, even caring deeply about such subjects, does not make one suitable for office or even inherently Progressive.”
let me put this succinctly: fucking DUH.
” Recy Taylor’s story was compelling. (And yes I knew it); what does that have to do with Oprah’s qualifications for president?”
the point is that none of this is about oprah and the presidency OBVIOUSLY. who cares if you knew it? plenty of people don’t. for God’s sake why change the fucking subject?
““Giving an inspiring speech about such subjects, even caring deeply about such subjects, does not make one suitable for office or even inherently Progressive.”
let me put this succinctly: fucking DUH.”
fucking double DUH
Why not talk about some thing closer in time and closer to home. We have to elect a new governor (killer Rick will be history) in November. The primaries are much closer. Looks like some thing like a dozen folks running.
Just saw a commercial for the Ann Arbor guy, Shri Thanedar. Says he is in favor of universal health care, free college for those who make under $120,000, says he won’t take corporate campaign donations and wants to ban for profit charter schools.
Sounds interesting.
I know Gretchen Whitmer is running and is probably the lead Democratic candidate.
The primary is in August
Oprah Winfrey is a monster.
People are talking about her because they are looking for simple solutions to complex problems… and they are just simply dumb.
“She obviously smarter and better read than the current occupant of the White House”
That’s a lot of people. Unbelievable that we have a President who doesn’t read.
Lynn, they did not move those jobs to Asia and Mexico because of technology, they moved because of cheap labor. Technology is very expensive. Humans are cheap and disposable where as technology can be very expensive and made obsolete fairly quickly. When I was a printer we used 100 year old technology because it was cheap.
Using your logic, all human activity will be replaced by technology, we have artificial intelligence algorithms that are proving to be smarter than the smartest people, so lets replace everybody.
“Lynn, they did not move those jobs to Asia and Mexico because of technology, they moved because of cheap labor.”
The converse of that is that they moved jobs there because labor is expensive here in the States, which it is. Ever tried to employ people?
I’m not making some case against labor or unions (cause that would be stupid), but I think that, from a business standpoint, it’s much more complicated than simply looking for the cheapest deal for the sake of getting the cheapest deal. Note that as Chinese wages go up, it might no longer be cost effective to manufacture there, though.
KJC– Oprah is seriously considering a run. I thought that was the point of this post.
Perhaps I was wrong.
While the speech was inspiring, I don’t think there is much that was surprising or new in it. Glad she made it for the sake of maintaining momentum.
Mark brought up the Oprah run, not in the post but directly afterwards: “As much as I love the idea of an Oprah run, I’m inclined to say we need to step back from the idea of the celebrity president.” So yeah, I thought you were changing the subject.
A whole lot of people seem to like the idea of an Oprah 2020. So maybe not so OBVIOUSLY not the point, after all.
Anyone who “loves the idea of an Oprah run” hasn’t done their research.
Back to my point about unemployment. When you have full employment in reality (as opposed to the matrix of propaganda we are subjected too) you have workers demanding things like this and taking action in support
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/08/german-metal-workers-strike-in-bid-to-gain-28-hour-working-weeks
A 28 hour work week, to care for children or aged parents or because you work around too many toxins and just need a break.
but hey America is great again
re: “Using your logic, all human activity will be replaced by technology, we have artificial intelligence algorithms that are proving to be smarter than the smartest people, so lets replace everybody.”
That does indeed seem to be the path we are on. At the very least we can expect automation to change manufacturing in the same way it changed agriculture. There was a time when almost everyone was growing food and that has changed obviously. We can in the near term expect to see this technology creating a lot of good paying tech jobs but alas not enough to replace the manufacturing jobs lost to technology.
for those who say Sanders call for universal health care or free college for all is pie in the sky, did you notice how we just threw a BILLION dollars into the bottom of the Indian Ocean
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5255187/Billion-dollar-satellite-plummets-Indian-Ocean.html
Sanders had no viable plan to pay for “free college” and had no plan for dealing with the potential negative impacts to Universities.
It wasn’t that it’s not a laudable goal, he just had no plan. Trying to pay for University education with taxes of volatile stock trades was just silliness. In the end, his “free stuff” platform was all performance and no substance. The guy just had no plan, at least up until the Michigan primary, when I voted.
If he had run on a platform of student loan debt forgiveness, zero percent student loans or ways of reigning in tuition increases, I might have gotten behind him.
But he didn’t. He chose magical ideas and performance over substance to deal with real issues.
This idea that an substantial public benefits program (which I would support) can be funded just off the fat of the land, not without very real impact to middle class taxation, and that somehow we will not need substantial (neoliberal) wealth generation on top of that to keep it viable, is a fantasy. I truly wish we were looking at the other social dem models, like Scandinavia, so the public could be adequately informed of what is being asked of them. Are we willing to accept 50% wage taxation for families earning over 72 grand in exchange for free health care and college tuition for all. We may be. I would be. But we need to talk about it and the many many models for how to get there, not just talk about it like all we need to do is redistribute the wealth from the top 1%. That’s not how it works… anywhere. I’m not saying that shouldn;’t happen. We absolutely need to get our economy back in balance and make it better serve the greater good, but it’s not a matter of taking a pile of money over there and adding it here, especially if we want our businesses to be acting more ethically on top of all that.
It’s not a matter of simply redistributing wealth. It’s so much more complicated than that. Sanders campaign ran on the fantasy that your rich uncle was going to give you everything you need. He ran on lottery ticket fantasy, not economic reality. He made you all believe it was simple. Because the American people have become simpletons.
Sanders was a bullshitter and a snake oil salesman selling false hope to the desperate. How any person can believe something strongly for 30 years and not bother to come up with a viable plan for execution in ANY way, either political strategy or policy, dumbfounds me. Most people as obsessed as he, have thought this stuff through and examined the models and know what works and doesn;t and how. He was a griper not a visionary.
Sanders was initially a one trick pony (campaign finance), which is fine. I don’t think he thought that he would get as far as he did, so he and his team hadn’t thought the other issues through. By the time that came around, there was such a cult of personality around him that it was impossible to have a reasoned discussion of what a Sanders presidency would look like.
It ended up being a nightly series of evangelical megachurches, all performance for the already converted and no substance. Then when it became clear that he couldn’t lead and wouldn’t win the Democratic base or the primary, he and his followers poisoned the well and here we are.
Democrats can do better. We need to talk about some of the things that Sanders talked about, but in less religious and fantastical terms. To date, that isn’t happening, and that’s a let down.
Near as I can tell nobody seems to care that we are financing our endless wars on credit, nor that the defense dept. can throw a billion dollars away (quite literally) on a “spy” satellite. Nothing good will happen in this country until we face those realities. But let’s beat up on Sanders.
I go to this web site every morning mainly because it is a great news aggregator.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/
Democratic partisans are the participants in the discussion threads. There was a morning post about Chuck Jones, retired president of USW local 1999 the representative for the workers at the Carrier air conditioner plant that Trump made famous. He was quoted calling Trump a liar, an idiot and a con man.
The Democratic partisans immediately assumed he was a disillusioned Trump supporter. Couldn’t be any farther from the truth. Both he and his local endorsed Sanders in the Indiana primary and Clinton in the general election. But the anti-worker animus of the Democrats just jumps out almost reflexively these days.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10085290
Mean while the Senate in a bi-partisan manner with both our Democratic Senators from Michigan have voted on Concurrent Resolution #3 which has reauthorized the elimination of the 4th amendment. It provides for the continuing of Section 702 of the FISA Amendments Act, the powerful surveillance authority that results in the NSA’s collection of countless Americans’ emails, chat logs, and browsing history. Given how almost everyone here thinks about Trump–why oh why do we give him this power.
Remember to thank the Democrat’s for protecting our right to privacy.
“Near as I can tell nobody seems to care that we are financing our endless wars on credit, nor that the defense dept. can throw a billion dollars away (quite literally) on a “spy” satellite. Nothing good will happen in this country until we face those realities. ”
Simply shifting either of those to support “free college” would not be a viable plan for the long term.
My opinion is that a funding mechanism for education should be self-sustaining in the long term and not subject to the yearly budget whims of Congress. It’s easy to say, “we’ll not buy a satellite” but harder to cut something as massive as educational funding without consequence.
Aside from that, “free college” as it was suggested by Sanders and his followers would decimate American Universities and become a huge subsidy to wealthy households.
A criticism of Sanders plans (or lack of any) is not a defense of something else. I would expect that you, of all people, would understand that. I am pro-education, but I am also for creating viable ways to pay for and sustain it.
I think we need to look closely at John Kerry’s run for president.
House just voted in a bi-partisan vote to continue spying on Americans, now goes back to Senate for final vote, where they have already voted once to gut the 4th Amendment.
There are viable young candidates among the Dems. No one paid much attention to Clinton or Obama for that matter before Iowa.
Wobblie– if you are looking for an aggregate on Trump and Congress’ actions, Amy Siskind is the place to go. https://medium.com/@Amy_Siskind I personally find following every GOP action as they occur, most of which we have zero ability to impact, emotionally exhausting. And the liberal press is focusing a lot on actions in the house that can’t pass the Senate. It’s not worth paying attention to those. They run on outrage. So I read the list, and sigh. This is the list of things we must correct going forward. I’m hopeful for 2018. And the recent court actions re gerrymandering. Must… try… to… be… hopeful.
“we’ dont give Trump that power. Congress does.
The GOP congress to be precise. Didn’t you argue that there’s no meaningful difference between the parties?
Honestly, I get tired of people saying “You are talking about this, but why aren’t you talking about this thing that I am interested in????”
I am very sorry I have things that I am interested in. There was a guy who used to post here who would regularly yell at me (online) because I didn’t write about the things that he was interested in.
Always seemed a strange strategy to get people interested in things but then I’m used to people not being at all interested in anything I am interested in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWty68yFEV0
IL, I’m sure you have heard of the Federal Reserve. They can finance (through the creation of money–that is how they saved the banks 10 years ago) free college for all if we make them.
Here is a candidate that is worth supporting
https://timcanova.com/
Quantitative easing is not a sustainable solution. It’s a limited fix, and almost always a bad idea. Duh.
Just print money = Money does really grow on trees.
It buys free ponies.
Rich uncle Bernie will take care of all my needs.
Wobblie.
No, thats not how it works.
Tim Canova has taken a strong stand against QE, no? Is he for it to fund ongoing public benefit programs like education?
He, btw, is one of the primary candidates that Bernie failed to show up for in 2016. (That’s his analysis, not mine..) There were plenty of great progressive candidates that got primaried to more establishment dems, because Bernie could only do Bernie. This is part of what I was talking about when I said Bernie had no feasible plan for implementation either in terms of political strategy or policy. Let’s hope he shows up this go around. I would be ok with Debbie Wasserman Schultz going away.
“Why change the fucking subject?”
Shhhh. KJC does not like being subjected to discussions, unless the discussions have as their subject, the things KJC does not mind being subjected to.
Moving forward we will refer to those subjects kjc does not mind being subjected to as “The Subject”.
Any objections?