Trump calls into question the legitimacy of the election, claiming that millions of illegal votes were cast

Yesterday, Donald Trump, our President-elect, took to Twitter and said the following. “In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide,” he said, “I won the popular vote, if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally.” This, as everyone knows, is absolute bullshit. Hillary Clinton’s lead in the popular vote has now surpassed 2 million, and, despite his claims about the prevalence of voter fraud, it’s accepted by people who study such things for a living that real instances of people voting illegally are extremely rare. In fact, the only documented instance that I know of this past election cycle was a woman in Iowa who was caught attempting to vote for Trump twice. In spite of this, however, Trump continues, even in victory, to push the voter fraud narrative. The question is why.

trumpopularvote

Maybe he’s so thin skinned that he can’t accept that he lost the popular vote. Maybe it’s just ego, an absolute unwillingness to accept defeat, even when it doesn’t matter. Maybe he can’t accept the fact that was put in office by just 18.8% of Americans, and needs to create the illusion that he actually has a mandate, even if it means calling into to question the integrity of the system that awarded him the presidency. Or, maybe the folks at BoingBoing.net are onto something when they say that this most recent tantrum of Trump’s was just a diversion intended to get us talking about something other than the exhaustive New York Times piece which had come out hours before enumerating our President-elect’s numerous conflicts of interest. Regardless of his motivation, though, this most recent tweet of his has people incredibly concerned, as it not only threatens to undermine public confidence in our democratic institutions, but may be used to justify even greater voter suppression attempts in the future.

Of the articles I’ve seen written about this most recent tweet of Trump’s, I liked the one in The Nation the best, as it went into detail as to the efforts that have already made by Republicans to gut the Voting Rights Act and “institutionalize voter suppression at every level of government.” Here’s just a little taste.

Donald Trump’s tweets yesterday about “the millions of people who voted illegally in 2016” and “serious voter fraud in Virginia, New Hampshire and California” cannot be dismissed as just another Twitter meltdown from the president-elect. (It goes without saying that Trump’s claims are categorically false.)

His conspiracy theories about rigged elections during the presidential race were meant to delegitimize the possibility of Hillary Clinton’s election. But now that he’s won the election we have to take his words far more seriously. He will appoint the next attorney general, at least one Supreme Court justice and thousands of positions in the federal government. His lies about the prevalence of voter fraud are a prelude to the massive voter suppression Trump and his allies in the GOP are about to unleash.

Unlike his Democratic and Republican predecessors, Trump has little respect for the institutions that preserve American democracy, whether it’s freedom of the press or the right to vote. As I wrote in The Nation recently:

“Trump undermined the basic tenets of democracy in ways unseen by any previous presidential nominee. He said he might refuse to accept the outcome of the election if things didn’t go his way; his supporters explicitly called for ‘racial profiling’ at the polls; and his campaign openly boasted that ‘we have three major voter-suppression operations under way’ to reduce turnout among African Americans, young women, and liberals.”

We can already glimpse how a Trump administration will undermine voting rights, based on the people he nominated to top positions, those he has advising him, and his own statements.

His pick for attorney general, Jeff Sessions, wrongly prosecuted black civil-rights activists for voter fraud in Alabama in the 1980s, called the Voting Rights Act “a piece of intrusive legislation,” and praised the Supreme Court’s gutting of the Voting Rights Act in 2013…

If you want a better idea of the lengths a Trump administration might go to suppress voting rights, take a look at what Republicans are doing in North Carolina right now. A month after the Supreme Court ruled that states with a long history of discrimination no longer had to approve their voting changes with the federal government, North Carolina Republicans passed a “monster” voter-suppression law that required strict photo ID, cut early voting, and eliminated same-day registration and pre-registration for 16- and 17-year-olds.

Like in so many-GOP controlled states, Republicans in North Carolina justified the voting restrictions by spreading false claims about voter fraud. (Such fraud was in fact exceedingly rare: There were only two cases of voter impersonation in North Carolina from 2002 to 2012 out of 35 million votes cast.)

The United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit found that North Carolina’s law targeted African Americans “with almost surgical precision.” But even after the court restored a week of early voting, GOP-controlled county election boards limited early voting hours and polling locations. The executive director of the North Carolina Republican Party called on Republicans to make “party line changes to early voting” that included opposing polling sites on college campuses and prohibiting early voting on Sundays, when black churches held “Souls to the Polls” voter-mobilization drives. The North Carolina GOP bragged before Election Day that “African American Early Voting is down 8.5% from this time in 2012. Caucasian voters early voting is up 22.5% from this time in 2012.”…

Before we move on, it should also be noted that, as a result of those 2013 changes to the Voting Rights Act, there were 868 fewer polling places this year than in 2012, and a majority of those closures were in states like Louisiana and Mississippi, that have a history of voter suppression.

One last thing before we move on… The New York Times ran a lengthy profile piece on Trump’s senior strategist Steve Bannon today, which include the following story.

…Ms. Jones, the film colleague, said that in their years working together, Mr. Bannon occasionally talked about the genetic superiority of some people and once mused about the desirability of limiting the vote to property owners.

“I said, ‘That would exclude a lot of African-Americans,’” Ms. Jones recalled. “He said, ‘Maybe that’s not such a bad thing.’ I said, ‘But what about Wendy?’” referring to Mr. Bannon’s executive assistant. “He said, ‘She’s different. She’s family.’”

Make of that what you will.

The simple fact of the matter is, American demographics are shifting, and, if conservatives want to remain in power, they either have to appeal to people of color, or find ways to keep people of color from voting. And, from what we’ve seen, it seems pretty clear that they’ve chosen to do the latter. The question is, just how aggressively they’ll push forward now that they have control over the House, the Senate, and the White House. Regardless of how hard they push, though, we need to be prepared to fight back. As Bernie Sanders said today, it’s our job, both at the state and federal level, to “resist all efforts at voter suppression… (doing) everything we can to make it easier for people to participate in the political process, not harder.”

One last thing, as long as we’re on the subject…. And this is really scary… Let’s assume that the Electors don’t stand up and vote against Trump in January, and that the Democrats are unsuccessful in their attempts to impeach him. Let’s say he serves an entire term, and runs next year against Elizabeth Warren and loses. What happens then? Does he walk away from office peacefully, or does he insist on staying, claiming that, once again, the election has been “rigged”? And, if that happens, what do we do? Who steps in and ensures a peaceful transition of power?

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73 Comments

  1. John Galt
    Posted November 28, 2016 at 11:44 pm | Permalink

    How do you know that millions of Mexicans didn’t risk their lives to sneak across the border and vote for Clinton? How do you know that she doesn’t control their minds? How do you know that she doesn’t put subliminal messages in their soap operas?

  2. jean henry
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 5:01 am | Permalink

    He’s a troll. That’s all. And good at it. Do you think his handlers would let him near twitter if they could not see the advantage of this diversion?
    No one but the left and alt right take his tweets seriously. That works perfectly for them. We keep repeating his narrative. We are doing their work for them.
    And no I don’t have an answer. I still think we have to be vigilant. I think we need to self-monitor for outrage about the right things. Believing this election will be overturned or he won’t let go of power (how?!!!– we have a process) is just partisan bullshittery. We aren’t talking about the spike in hate crimes nationally anymore. Its not about white nationalism and it’s stronger foothold in america now– It’s all Trumo all the time. We need to focus on appointments and policy– which is apparently boring but will have real
    Impact on our future.

  3. Demetrius
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 7:13 am | Permalink

    “Let’s say he serves an entire term, and runs next year against Elizabeth Warren and loses. What happens then? Does he walk away from office peacefully, or does he insist on staying, claiming that, once again, the election has been “rigged”? And, if that happens, what do we do? Who steps in and ensures a peaceful transition of power?”

    At this point, that doesn’t seem so unlikely.

  4. jean henry
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 7:54 am | Permalink

    It’s extremely unlikely. Law enforcement would hail him out of there. Our entire system of government is set up to resist tyranny. Despite our post-fact democracy and pervasive gleeful hatred of our fundamental institutions, the systems works to resist excessive use of power.
    I think you all have watched too many movies.
    The results of a Trump presidency are horrid enough without imagining things.
    Again– he’s a troll. He won because he distracted us with inflammatory statements. Eyes on the prize.

  5. nobody
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 8:00 am | Permalink

    “He’s a troll. That’s all.”

    How, after all that we’ve seen, can you continue to downplay the threat posed by this man?

  6. Cassandra
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 8:03 am | Permalink

    American political culture presupposes an essential fact: That no matter how extreme a president, administration, congress, etc., is – there will always be “another election,” in which voters will have an opportunity to change course if they so desire. But what if that were no longer the case?

    At this point, it seems many people (and the mainstream media) are mostly “whistling past the graveyard,” assuming that, no matter how bad a Trump presidency might end up being, we can always undo it in the “next” election. I think this is probably because no one wants to be seen as alarmist, or as over-reacting to the current situation. I think it is also because – at least since the Civil War – we have no historical frame of reference for a major national disruption or an interruption in the peaceful transfer of federal political power.

    But let’s face facts: We are soon to have a president who uses his position to mock individuals and scapegoat groups within our country, who brazenly flouts the rule of law, is openly hostile to an independent press, and disdains the fundamental principles of democracy – including the integrity of election results, and voting itself.

    Don’t get me wrong – if people think they are going to see soldiers in brown shirts marching down Pennsylvania Avenue on inauguration day, I think they’ll be disappointed. It will take a while for the administration to consolidate power and begin to to enact its program. But just look at the people the president-elect his choosing for his new cabinet. Examine their backgrounds, their personal and business connections, their public statements, etc., and consider carefully where we are really headed …

    Like many others, I genuinely hope the new president will moderate his views somewhat once faced with the challenges of governing (vs. merely campaigning). I also hope that any backlash that develops will benefit electoral challengers in the 2018 mid-term elections, and that ultimately – we’ll have a chance to elect someone else to the White House in 2020.

    Still, I can’t help feeling anxious. Given the president-elect’s temperament and behaviour, and considering the people he is choosing to lead his government – I’m more than a little concerned that if we end up involved in a war, or (God forbid) end up suffering a significant terrorist attack on U.S. soil, this administration will be tempted to use either (or both) as a pretext to suspend the “normal” rules.

  7. Anonymous
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 9:40 am | Permalink

    “Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag – if they do, there must be consequences – perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!” -Your President Elect

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/loss-of-citizenship-or-year-in-jail-trump-incredibly-says-burning-flag-must-have-consequences/

  8. Eel
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 9:48 am | Permalink

    So he’s supportive of a recount?

  9. Jean Henry
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    Nobody– I am in no way downplaying the threat posed by Trump. I have re-read Hannah Arendt’s Origins of Totalitarianism twice already during this election. My concern is that by being diverted into believing his most hyperbolic speech we are missing the boat on the actions he is taking that will in fact codify the worst of the white nationalism. We are trying to get him out of office rather than scrutinizing his plans, policies and cabinet appointments. (Mark has done a great job on cabinet appointments, but what gets play is this bullshit denial.

    Denial does not help us fight Totalitarian Creep, it’s true. A troll sets the media equivalent of back burns to divert attention form what matters. When you focus more on Trump’s latest tweet than his appointments, they win.

    Running around hysterically believing avery bit of fake news is not the way to address a crisis effectively.

    https://www.propublica.org/article/theres-no-evidence-our-election-was-rigged

  10. Jean Henry
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    https://www.propublica.org/article/theres-no-evidence-our-election-was-rigged

  11. Alan Stamm
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 10:10 am | Permalink

    I get your concern, Mark, but think we should proceed the way we walk — stepping deliberately, purposefully through what’s right in front of us — rather than running ahead and thinking about mountain-climbing strategies for 2020.

    The immediate path seems cluttered enough to demand vigilance and focus on Cabinet confirmation hearings, a Supreme Court nomination, policy decisions galore and on…

  12. Morbid Larson
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 10:10 am | Permalink

    This isn’t even the worst of it. Now he wants to bring back penalties for flag burning and seems to be poised to favor states he won in.

  13. Lynne
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    I have so many concerns about Trump, that I hardly know where to start or where to focus my energy. One of my immediate concerns is that he is apparently blowing off intelligence briefings and the last time we had a president who didn’t take such things seriously, we had 9/11. I am less concerned about terrorist attacks than the aftermath. We already know that both the left and the right will give up important rights when people are scared and a good terrorist attack will set up that kind of atmosphere.

    My other concern is climate change but since the effects on climate change caused by Trump policies likely won’t be felt for decades and frankly, more than 1/2 of the country is just too stupid to make cause and effect connections with public policy, I am not sure how to best address this concern. How do you argue with people who don’t believe in facts when you have the integrity not to lie?

  14. Citywatch
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    It is possible, if the electors don’t reject Trump, that this is our last real election. Things will be gerrymandered and the courts stacked to such an extent that, like Russia and other places, there are “elections” but the winner is already selected and elected.

  15. Eel
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    “Who would shit on a flag of shit?”

    Mr. Show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv297S1i35s

  16. Jean Henry
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    Citywatch has pegged what I see as the real risk.
    Tyranny just refuses to cede power.
    Totalitarian rule creeps in and establishes itself by undermining voting rights, and securing power via systemic adjustment. Totalitarianism harnesses the system to secure power.

    So, yes, now our elections do not reflect the popular vote by much wider margins than in the past. More so at the state level than elsewhere. And more of this could follow. If Trump were to try to retain power a la FDR, then we would see it coming from a mile away. It would only work if we focus so much on the big bully and outsized fears that we miss the incremental steps towards securing power in the hands of the few AND limiting the citizenry’s ability to disrupt that power.

    So we need to stop looking at the Big Buffoon and start looking at restoring our democratic integrity. And I believe that means working within the DNC to fix the party at state levels and get it smarter. Maybe the DNC can create a consistent and secure voting model in primaries across all states. Maybe they can get serious about gerrymandering. I truly worry that third parties and infighting will continue to erode the lefts ability to function effectively.

    So long as we continue the Frankenstein’s monster scary stories, we are letting our fear of the monster distract us from the Dr.(s) who made the monster and laboratory in which he is being constructed.

  17. Lynne
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    I wonder if maybe the third parties are a blessing though. They keep the far left from having too much influence and frankly, after seeing the Green Party platform, I was very grateful for that aspect of it.

  18. Newsflash
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 11:20 am | Permalink

    From CNN:

    “President-elect Donald Trump has chosen Elaine Chao, the former Labor secretary to be his choice for Transportation secretary, an official briefed on the matter said. Chao is the wife of Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.”

    [No word on her qualifications, if she has any. All they say is that she McConnell’s wife. I think it’s pretty evident what’s happening here.]

  19. Jean Henry
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    The issue for me is that the far left runs on activist statements– “End the DPL!” “End War””End poverty”– as though they are a political platform. All the aspirations are legit, but they are also politically naive and impossible without serious strategic planning and long term implementation. Using DPL as example. The left is mad at Obama for not ‘ending DPL’ and they don;t bother to assess whether that’s within his powers to do. They could be asking instead that he use his position to publicly advocate for the safety and security and legitimacy of the protestors— Something possible.
    But the left is caught up in this ideological no compromise or you’re a bad person rut. And we won;t align like Conservatives so we just keep losing. We want silver bullets. And we are the only adults left in the room. We can;t afford to be childish. Our ideological purity kick is making us as dumb as the right. But more divided. It’s so immensely sad to me.

    Third parties are making the conversation more stupid, not smarter. If the left doesn’t get smart and strategic instead of caught up in populist fantasies, the monster will keep winning.

  20. kjc
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    “The left is mad at Obama for not ‘ending DPL’ and they don;t bother to assess whether that’s within his powers to do. They could be asking instead that he use his position to publicly advocate for the safety and security and legitimacy of the protestors— Something possible.”

    people are doing that. lots of people actually. you don’t seem to be following the issue too closely, just using it as fodder for your favorite pastime—critique. #nodapl

  21. ytown
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    Hahaha, It’s a scary time for you.

  22. Jean Henry
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

    This is what we should focus on. http://www.metrotimes.com/detroit/politics-and-prejudices-why-michigan-is-permanently-screwed/Content?oid=2437525

    We get caught up in conspiracies about rigged and hacked elections, when, in fact, the rigging was right in front of us, and at an actionable level all along. I have been engaged in local politics a long time. I have seen us ignore the problems close at hand while getting very worked up over national politics– over and over again. We can’t really implement radical change at the national level. The GOP didn’t do that. Newt figured out this Republican revolution in the early 90’s, when Clinton was elected. He ran a ground game. The Dems do not. When we do focus locally on an issue, we can get it done. The rapid transit campaign (stymied for a few years but gaining traction) is an example. I’d like to see us talk about affordable housing more actively– a ballot initiative may be the path forward, School funding too. It seems we talk about these issues locally if there is a ballot initiative. Otherwise they are nebulous issues that we either support or don;t on ideological grounds, but not with meaningful action.

    We get caught up in ideological bullshittery. Mass Incarceration, Public education, election reform, women’s reproductive health, college tuition prices, etc etc– all state issues. State Issues. Not federal. And we are hamstrung to do anything about it because we were gerrymandered out of power to effect change. Because we didn;t care enough to make any fuss at the time. The work was not electing Bernie. The work was right here all long. (Click your heels three times)

    If we want to fight totalitarian rule, well the fight is right here. And it’s boring and hard and there are no bad guys. Not such a good story I know. “I have met the enemy and he is us” –Pogo

  23. Lynne
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

    I think that the left really does need to start thinking more locally. State and local laws have a much bigger impact on people’s day to day lives. Can we make Ypsilanti a sanctuary city I wonder?

  24. Jean Henry
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

    The whole sanctuary city thing is a bit of a feel good notion. It has varying levels of commitment, but the authorities still cooperate with deportation orders etc. Illegal immigrants are still deported. It would not stop a round up of undocumented residents. They just don’t participate in actively looking for illegal immigrants. It’s better than nothing but offers no meaningful protection:

    http://www.npr.org/2016/11/19/502684089/trump-vows-to-end-sanctuary-cities-but-no-one-can-agree-what-that-label-means

    Ann Arbor is a sanctuary city. But it’s rules are not very stringent. I could not find the language even.

    Ypsi city council had sanctuary status on the agenda in the beginning of 2016. It was tabled to April. Then I did not see it mentioned again. I didn’t have time to search all the minutes. Maybe ask Amanda about it.

  25. Lynne
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

    Maybe I will have to start going to council meetings even though the main reason I have never run for council is that I haven’t wanted to attend boring ass city council meetings. But there is a public comment part at each one and I am sure I could find important issues to bring up such as how our city can protect our residents from the Feds. I don’t know if they can force our police force to arrest people but if not, passing resolutions to limit police power might be a good start.

  26. blueeyedpupil
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    Its beyond the time when our city meetings should be televised. Wondering why in the 21st century we cannot get this small thing done

  27. Demetrius
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    NYT: How Stable Are Democracies? ‘Warning Signs Are Flashing Red’

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/world/americas/western-liberal-democracy.html

  28. Jcp2
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    It’s a bit ironic that if you look at the list of republican democracies with a strong president, the United States is one of the exceptions that is a modern developed nation that hasn’t turned into a strongman government yet. The other western liberal democracies are parliamentary systems and many that are admired by progressives are constitutional monarchies.

  29. Somebody
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

    Thankfully some people are still taken it to the streets!

    http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2016/11/29/detroit-police-arrest-40-during-union-wage-protest/94594094/

  30. Jean Henry
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 7:09 pm | Permalink

    “A Republic, if you can keep it.”– Franklin

    “The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” de Tocqueville

    “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.” –H. L. Mencken

    All democracies are fragile. That’s been known for centuries.

    I tend to venerate the constitution myself– It still seems a more functional system of governance than the will of the people it represents. But…this article makes a good case for skepticism and vigilance as a protective factor. Maybe this Trump scare will knock some sense into the electorate and its institutions. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/10/our-fragile-constitution/403237/

    Right now, I think all humans and their political movements and their institutions guided by more humans are irredeemably fucked up. People are far too easily played. Left, right etc. There is no argument that one side is any smarter than the other. I can’t believe we are facing totalitarian creep and most people on the left seem to be 1) back to cat videos 2) in denial about the results still and trying to overturn the election 3) blaming it on the Dem party.

    No one seems at all interested in how populism made this monster. They still think populism will fix it– if only the people could see the monster they made. The people who voted Trump love the guy. And the more you hate him; the more they dig in and love him more. But we still fall for the trolling every time. Self-congratulatory anger-bliss is our drug. We are idiots. If we cant figure out how to run on strategy instead of outrage, denial etc, we are sunk. If we keep externalizing blame, instead of seeing our role in where we are, we are toast.

    We lost out state and only see the end effects and express outrage. We aren;t tryi ng nearly hard enough to reclaim it. The work is in this state. We are responsible for this election. Everything we need to do is right here.

    This IS a war– and it will be a long one. If we can”t learn to think this stuff through and act humbly within what is possible, we deserve to get what we get.

  31. Jean Henry
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

    My action steps: 1) ask that every committee, panel, board etc that I am on is representative. (Do the work if it is not) 2) research a list of what can be done to resist totalitarian creep at a state, county and local level 3) work on gerrymandering solutions at a national level, so I am prepared when the time comes to help fix our state government 4) spend less time in the bubble and more time among those with whom I disagree politically 5) speak up more about bias– systemic and outright 6) work on affordable housing and housing rights; we have to re-integrate our communities. 7) learn to be an effective ally 8) try to see the bullshit, the human and the genius embedded in all sides of any argument. 9) focus on the local– be a thorn in the side of liberal and leftist self-satisfaction and moralism. Why will #9 help defeat Trump?– See above. The bubble must go. The self-congratulatory smug bubble is the left’s biggest problem.

  32. Jean Henry
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/11/24/why-are-people-giving-jill-stein-millions-of-dollars-for-an-election-recount

  33. Jean Henry
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

    Part of the necessary research to actually keep Trumpism at bay: https://www.dissentmagazine.org/blog/authoritarian-democracy-playbook-modi-erdogan-trump

  34. iRobert
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 8:46 pm | Permalink

    I suspect Jean is a recruiter for the alt-right. I’ve never felt more like joining them.

  35. iRobert
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

    I like Trump. It will be good to get a few laughs before Armageddon.

  36. stupid hick
    Posted November 29, 2016 at 11:31 pm | Permalink

    “he said, “I won the popular vote, if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally.” This, as everyone knows, is absolute bullshit.”

    Hillarious! No, not everyone knows this is absolute bullshit. In fact, didn’t InfoWars and VoteFraud.org prove the exact opposite? It is not a proven fact that three million illegal aliens voted? Ah, but you won’t read about that in the mainstream media, because they’re obviously biased against Trump. Amiright, EOS? Back me up here.

    “Maybe he’s so thin skinned […]. Maybe it’s just ego […] Maybe he can’t accept the fact that was put in office by just 18.8% of Americans […] Or, maybe…”

    Or maybe he’s a winner who is simply repeating proven facts, reported by InfoWars, to counter liberal propaganda about popular votes and recounts? Why do you liberals refuse to accept facts reported by independent sources? Please explain! Lol.

    “Regardless of his motivation, though, this most recent tweet of his has people incredibly concerned…”

    Come on, are you sure it isn’t only confused liberals who are incredibly concerned (ok maybe some establishment conservatives too)? You should leave the safety of your liberal blogroll and mainstream media comfort zone once in a while. Seriously, why not try spending an hour clicking around the Drudge Report every day for a week? Learn about the liberal propaganda-free reality the other half of the country inhabits. Then maybe you’ll understand the futility of wailing about Trump in your liberal internet echo chamber.

    If after a week you don’t still don’t understand, please ask EOS, maybe he can explain it better.

  37. Morbid Larson
    Posted November 30, 2016 at 2:19 am | Permalink

    From InfoWars:

    “Three million votes in the U.S. presidential election were cast by illegal aliens, according to Greg Phillips of the VoteFraud.org organization.
    If true, this would mean that Donald Trump still won the contest despite widespread vote fraud and almost certainly won the popular vote.
    “We have verified more than three million votes cast by non-citizens,” tweeted Phillips after reporting that the group had completed an analysis of a database of 180 million voter registrations.
    We have verified more than three million votes cast by non-citizens.
    We are joining .@TrueTheVote to initiate legal action. #unrigged
    — Gregg Phillips (@JumpVote) November 13, 2016
    “Number of non-citizen votes exceeds 3 million. Consulting legal team,” he added.
    Completed analysis of database of 180 million voter registrations.
    Number of non-citizen votes exceeds 3 million.
    Consulting legal team.
    — Gregg Phillips (@JumpVote) November 11, 2016
    According to current indications, Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by around 630,000 votes, although around 7 million ballots remain uncounted.
    Virtually all of the votes cast by 3 million illegal immigrants are likely to have been for Hillary Clinton, meaning Trump might have won the popular vote when this number is taken into account.
    Vote fraud using ballots cast in the name of dead people and illegal alien voters was a huge concern before the election.
    On the morning of the election there were 4 million dead people on U.S. voter rolls.
    Although some states require some form of ID before voting, California, Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Vermont, West Virginia, Wyoming, and Washington, D.C. all require no identification before voting.”

  38. Morbid Larson
    Posted November 30, 2016 at 3:05 am | Permalink

    The last episode of the Saturday Six Pack was never uploaded.

  39. EOS
    Posted November 30, 2016 at 6:40 am | Permalink

    The Republican party platform is the most conservative that we have had in my lifetime. The list of judges that Trump would nominate to the Supreme Court is an impressive collection of jurists who would uphold the constitution and interpret existing laws on the books rather than fabricate legislation from the bench. Trump’s cabinet will be diverse and include some people who didn’t support his candidacy.

    The popular vote margin that Clinton recieved in California was greater than the margin nationwide. If you exclude the vote in California alone, Trump would have won both the popular vote and the electoral college nationwide. There’s a significant population of illegal aliens in California and the state does not allow ID’s to be checked at the polls. Recounting votes in California would do nothing to rectify the fact that the state gives Drivers Licenses to anyone and registers them to vote and is a major sanctuary for illegal immigrants. Obama encouraged illegals to vote and promised that no one would check immigration status. The national map is a sea of red with a few pockets of blue in inner city urba areas.

    Trump didn’t win based on his personal characteristics and charisma. Trump won because the majority of Americans hated Clinton and most of what she stood for. Trump won because Obama’s policies were detrimental to average Americans. Stupid Hick is right about Drudgereport. The site had a major influence on the election. It broke records for number of visits in the months leading up to the election. A significant number of Americans trust Drudge more than any mainstream media outlet and there is plenty of evidence that the media, Hollywood celebrities, and Academia were all in the tank for Clinton. It will take a long time and a huge effort and a long track record of honesty before many are able to trust those institutions ever again.

    I don’t know what Trump will do in the next 4 years. But I’m sure, even though he has a majority of both houses, that they will not lock the doors of the chambers, keeping out all Democrats, and design legislation without their input. (Which is exactly how ObamaCare was fashioned, by excluding the voices of elected Republican officials.)

    If you let the voices of people like Jean predominate in the discussion then it will hurt the progressive cause. If you resort to obstructionist tactics like Mark suggests, you will earn the animosity of the majority and dig a hole that will be hard to recover from. Most white males have no privilege to check and you should not feel welcome to castigate them at every turn. If the Democratic Party wants to succeed, they will need to provide a platform that reaches out and includes the working class and their values.

  40. Jean Henry
    Posted November 30, 2016 at 6:57 am | Permalink

    “If you let the voices of people like Jean predominate in the discussion then it will hurt the progressive cause. … Most white males have no privilege to check and you should not feel welcome to castigate them at every turn. If the Democratic Party wants to succeed, they will need to provide a platform that reaches out and includes the working class and their values.”

    There you go— This call to woo the white male working class (at sacrifice to the rest of the working class) is something EOS supports. You will just need to support her Christian Conservative social agenda to do so.

    Thanks, EOS, for making my point.

    I think the Dems are just fine with the coalition they have, thank you. Once Trump buries the Working Class further, they’ll be running back to the Dems and collective bargaining. Meanwhile, we continue to progress towards a minority majority country, and the GOP still have no idea how to appeal to people of color.

  41. Jean Henry
    Posted November 30, 2016 at 7:10 am | Permalink

    Something useful to do. Call your house reps. It’s not me; it’s Elizabeth Warren asking.

    “Republicans aren’t waiting for President Donald Trump to roll back the rules on Wall Street. On Thursday, the House will vote on H.R. 6392, a bill that does nothing for community banks but eliminates many of the Dodd-Frank financial reform rules for 30 of the biggest banks in the country. Banks this big – like Washington Mutual and Countrywide – were at the heart of bringing down our economy during the 2008 financial crisis. So what could possibly go wrong?!

    A vote for H.R. 6392 is a vote to gut the rules designed to stop another financial crisis and to let Donald Trump’s Treasury Secretary decide how to regulate the big banks. House Republicans may be willing to gamble the safety of our financial system to please the giant banks, but Democrats should side with working families that want tougher rules for Wall Street and can’t afford another backbreaking crisis or taxpayer-funded bailout.”

    http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2016/11/29/Will-Democrats-Stand-Trump-Here-s-Their-First-Test

  42. Morbid Larson
    Posted November 30, 2016 at 7:33 am | Permalink

    “But I’m sure, even though he has a majority of both houses, that they will not lock the doors of the chambers, keeping out all Democrats, and design legislation without their input.”

    Yes, they will because that’s what political parties do.

  43. stupid hick
    Posted November 30, 2016 at 8:15 am | Permalink

    Ha ha ha ha! When Trump buries the working class further, nobody who inhabits InfoWars territory will be running anywhere. The liberal laws of physics do not work there. Don’t you understand, after being stumped by Trump at every turn during the past 18 months, that is the Mordor you liberal hobbits need to learn to navigate? Let EOS be your oracle here, but that won’t be enough, you will need to leave the comfort of the Shire.

  44. iRobert
    Posted November 30, 2016 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    Now that Jean has become a regular comment or here, EOS seems a lot more reasonable.

  45. EOS
    Posted November 30, 2016 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    You are delusional Jean. I didn’t make your point at all. You need the white male working class as part of your coalition. That does not sacrifice anyone else, but the contrary – having a majority will enable you to enact your agenda. It’s about being inclusive rather than exclusive. I know the Democratic campaign rhetoric was that Trump was bigoted, but the reality was the opposite. Clinton led the party of the elites and those looking for a handout and the Republicans captured everyone else.

  46. EOS
    Posted November 30, 2016 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    iRobert,

    I’ve always been more reasonable.

  47. Lynne
    Posted November 30, 2016 at 10:24 am | Permalink

    Wow. EOS. I had thought that the mental gymnastics that Green Party people go through to deny the splitting-the-vote effect were impressive but that post up there makes them look like amateurs in the art of forming an alternate reality. Oh well. Your Medicare is going to get just as F’d as everyone else’s except I imagine that you will still find a way to blame Obama. I look forward to that bit of creativity.

  48. iRobert
    Posted November 30, 2016 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    You know, EOS, you might want to consider adopting Jean’s approach to things. I guarantee she’s driven more people to conservatism than you could ever dream of convincing with facts and figures.

  49. Morbid Larson
    Posted November 30, 2016 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    The comment section of this blog is a cesspool.

  50. L
    Posted November 30, 2016 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    How anyone who lived through the last election could say that the Dems don’t need the white working class is absolutely beyond me.

  51. iRobert
    Posted November 30, 2016 at 10:48 am | Permalink

    It’s good to see you’re still with us, Larson.

  52. Lynne
    Posted November 30, 2016 at 11:23 am | Permalink

    “How anyone who lived through the last election could say that the Dems don’t need the white working class is absolutely beyond me.”

    What choice do we have? I mean apparently no matter how much better your actual policies are for them, all it takes to get their votes is someone to run on a platform of lies and hate. Maybe it is time to just let fools dig their own graves while focusing on those white working class people who realize that their interests directly align with those of brown working class people?

  53. jean henry
    Posted November 30, 2016 at 11:55 am | Permalink

    I think the Dems will win back the white working class. They don’t have to cave to bigotry to do so. They will win them back after they give populism a shot. I’m not at all anti-male or even anti-conservative. I just don’t think they need special treatment.
    The Clinton campaign didn’t go into Wisconsin or Dearborn or even into Detroit until the last days. HRC didn’t work the factory floors here like she did elsewhere. (Bernie didn’t either– h stuck with stadiums in college towns) She should have. That was a bald error.
    But this business of feeling the WWC male pain and somehow placing that in opposition to feeling the pain of the rest of the working class is bullshit. You say it’s about unity but it’s really about suppressing other voices. If the needs of the working class are unified, then the policies and programs that assist them will be. That does not mean that POC and immigrants and women don’t also need other programs and policies to address the bias they face. It’s not either/or. It’s all in or get out.

    The WWC male pain you are asking the Dems to feel is the pain of sharing privilege. I’m not buying it.

    All of this ignores still that the average Trump voter is not poor or working class but solidly middle class. It’s simply about strategy– how to swing the swing votes. I don’t think the necessary adjustment was about ‘feeling’ white pain at sacrifice to others. I think if that strategy requires caving to bigotry as Dems have in the past (including Bill C and Obamas on gay marriage and immigration) then it’s a losing strategy and unethical.

  54. jean henry
    Posted November 30, 2016 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    Hey Pete– “What’s with the attitude?”

  55. stupid hick
    Posted November 30, 2016 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

    “there is plenty of evidence that the media, Hollywood celebrities, and Academia were all in the tank for Clinton. It will take a long time and a huge effort and a long track record of honesty before many are able to trust those institutions ever again.”

    Exactly! Trump’s base pays close attention to institutions’ track records of honesty, and that is exactly why they favor independent media like InfoWars. When the mainstream media stops discriminating against conservative facts, for example that 3 million illegal aliens voted for Clinton, and that Soros pays demonstrators to protest Trump, then maybe they’ll be able to win back lost trust.

  56. Morbid Larson
    Posted December 1, 2016 at 12:02 am | Permalink

    Trump should just send his thugs to start taking care of those pesky academics now.

  57. stupid hick
    Posted December 1, 2016 at 12:15 am | Permalink

    Well, it’s been proven that academics are lying about climate change and intelligent design, facts you’ll never see in the liberal media. Why should they not be punished? It’s what a majority of Americans voted for.

  58. Morbid Larson
    Posted December 1, 2016 at 12:31 am | Permalink

    Breitbart News and InfoWars will drain the swamp for us.

  59. stupid hick
    Posted December 1, 2016 at 12:45 am | Permalink

    Drain the swamps and put golf resorts there. That’s what a majority of the people voted for.

  60. Morbid Larson
    Posted December 1, 2016 at 3:07 am | Permalink

    “Clinton led … those looking for a handout and the Republicans captured everyone else.”

    Dog… whistle.

  61. Jean Henry
    Posted December 1, 2016 at 6:44 am | Permalink

    Pete is on the mark. The grassroots work to build a new Unamerican Activities Committee is starting. Conservative Students are already compiling online watch lists of professors with leftist perspectives. The new STASI.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/30/opinion/i-am-a-dangerous-professor.html

    PS Stupid Hick– the majority of people did not vote for Trump or any of this. The popular vote differential is heading to 2.5 million.

  62. Morbid Larson
    Posted December 1, 2016 at 7:03 am | Permalink

    That’s been going on for a while, though we can expect it to get worse.

  63. Morbid Larson
    Posted December 1, 2016 at 7:03 am | Permalink

    That’s been going on for a while, though we can expect it to get worse.

  64. stupid hick
    Posted December 1, 2016 at 8:30 am | Permalink

    Jean why do you refuse to subtract the 3 million illegal alien votes that votefraud.org discovered? EOS, help explain to Jean why it’s trusted by conservatives more than mainstream “news” sources.

  65. Jean Henry
    Posted December 1, 2016 at 8:49 am | Permalink

    Almost all of this has been going on for a while. The power of fourth estate (or fourth branch of government) has been eroded.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_branch_of_government
    Our only protection against totalitarian creep is an informed electorate with equal right to assembly and equal right to an equal vote. Voting rights protections are being dismantled. Gerrymandering has lead to GOP victories in states with Dem popular vote wins over and over again at all levels of government. Citizens have been lead by alt-right and left movements to distrust vetted news sources, and those news sources have eroded by tabloid competition, etc etc. The patriot act limited our privacy from government intrusion. The anti-pc war became it’s own form of censorship. The right to assembly was limited by Obama (but rarely enforced) in order to curb threat of terrorism. Threat of terrorism was an excuse to increase the govt monitoring on almost every human activity. None of it bothered me enough because we did not have a leader like Trump.

    But now we have an autocratic leader with the tools of government surveillance, limited citizen recourse and mass incarceration at his disposal. And Guantanamo is sitting with just 60 prisoners left— and a huge budget to maintain it. If Obama doesn’t close it, they will fill it for sure and so justify the expense.

    It’s all too horrific– what is possible now, because we did not pay close enough attention earlier. Now restoring the institutional integrity of the fourth estate is of critical importance. That IS the work. Pick a piece of it. Personally I have chosen to work in part on the re-districting issue in MI. That work is headed up by the League of Women Voters. They do not have enough support. I have a decent sized crew committing to joining and helping out. There is an open meeting/dinner of the LWV at Knight’s on Dexter Ann Arbor Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 6:00 pm. Non-members are welcome. Word is that Obama will be addressing redistricting when he leaves office, so that’s hopeful in terms of gaining some momentum before the next census. It seems as good a way as any to address the decline in the fourth branch.

    What Mark does here is more important than ever too.
    I will try to be less of a crank about it.

  66. Jean Henry
    Posted December 1, 2016 at 8:57 am | Permalink

    Stupid Hick– A little reading for you. There are 3 posts in total tearing apart any legitimacy of votefraud.org and it’s offshoots. Glad someone had the time… As in most conspiracy theories, the multiple links all stem from the same unverifiable source. At least Greg Palast on the left uses some real data. He’s still wrong, because he only uses the information that fits his narrative. But that’s just how these things work I guess. http://www.parentwin.com/2016/11/debunking-conspiracy-theory-3-million.html

  67. stupid hick
    Posted December 1, 2016 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

    “There are 3 posts in total tearing apart any legitimacy of votefraud.org and it’s offshoots.”

    If this is true, then why hasn’t a retraction been published on InfoWars.com? Why is there nothing about it in the Washington Times and other trusted conservative media sources? Why are people still re-tweeting Trump? It must be true otherwise the President wouldn’t stake his reputation. EOS, help me here, explain to Jean

  68. John Galt
    Posted December 1, 2016 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

    You are infringing on my territory here, Mr. Hick. If you continue, I will have no choice but to engage an attorney.

  69. EOS
    Posted December 1, 2016 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

    @stupid hick,

    I’m not familiar with those web sites. Maybe you should check out the Wall Street Journal, or National Review, or BBC World News America.

  70. Morbid Larson
    Posted December 1, 2016 at 11:28 pm | Permalink

    “I’m not familiar with those web sites.”

    Yeah, right.

  71. stupid hick
    Posted December 3, 2016 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

    EOS, which of those trustworthy mainstream news sources reported that Soros paid busloads of thugs $3000 each to protest at Trump rallies? Do any of them support Trump’s claim that 3 million illegal aliens voted? Are any of them critical of his claim? It’s a rhetorical question, I read the WSJ and BBC, and am not unfamiliar with the NR.

  72. Posted December 5, 2016 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

    “Maybe he can’t accept the fact that was put in office by just 18.8% of Americans”

    Well…ok. Then I’m just going to go ahead and continue to bitch about the fact that less than 10% of voters stuck us with a AAATA “More Buses” millage a few years back. Etc. Etc. Extremely poor voter turnout is of those conclusions that is ignored when things go your way, and held out as unfair when they don’t. Except by me. I encourage everyone to vote, and I think that for millages (taxation=theft) there should be a “minimum % of votes cast threshold” requirement. Otherwise we leave the door open for all kinds of abuse, like super-majorities on city councils putting whatever they want on ballots in low-turnout elections, or shady special-interest groups funding millage initiatives.

  73. M
    Posted February 10, 2017 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

    Trump apparently suggested in a meeting earlier this week that he would have won New Hampshire, if fraudulent voters hadn’t been bussed in from Massachusetts.

    “The sources said Trump complained about thousands of people being bussed from Massachusetts to vote illegally in New Hampshire, a state he narrowly lost. The comments were prompted by the presence of former Sen. Kelly Ayotte, a New Hampshire Republican, who attended the meeting because of the role she is playing helping Judge Neil Gorsuch win confirmation to the Supreme Court, something he thanked her for in the meeting.”

    CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/10/politics/donald-trump-elizabeth-warren-voter-fraud/index.html

One Trackback

  1. By How to survive in a world without facts on December 2, 2016 at 10:20 am

    […] the “lying Hillary” meme.] On another day, though, Trump will say something like “Millions of illegal votes were cast for Clinton,” and it just somehow worms its way into our collective unconscious, to a part of the brain […]

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