Discussing how deep cuts to mental health care services will impact the poor of Washtenaw County, EMU’s decision to drop their controversial mascot, local ice cream, and the music of Craig Johnson… on this weekend’s Saturday Six Pack

The Saturday Six Pack is back on the air this Saturday… Among other things, we’re going to be discussing access to mental health resources in Washtenaw County, where it’s rumored that as many as 90 mental health care workers could be losing their jobs over the next several days. While County administrator Verna McDaniel has gone on record saying that they will be “cutting nonclinical services first,” there’s no doubt that these layoffs will adversely affect those in Washtenaw County who, without significant mental health services, could likely find themselves in great jeopardy. I’ve had the occasion over the past few days to talk with several people who work in the mental health field, and I think it’s safe to say that they’re terrified. Not only are they afraid that they might lose their jobs, but they’re concerned, I think rightfully so, about their clients, and what will happen to them as programs are either eliminated or privatized. While a number of people said that they could not appear on Saturday’s show, for fear of angering their axe-wielding administrators, I’ve lined up a great panel to talk about the current situation, what it will mean to those who are now receiving services, and what we might be able to do about it. Our guests will include County Commissioner Yousef Rabhi, Greg Pratt of MISSION (Michigan Itinerant Shelter System, Interdependent Out of Necessity), and AFSCME Local 3052 President Nancy Heine. [Heine is also VP of the Huron Valley Central Labor Council.]

For what it’s worth, this is not just a Washtenaw County problem. As I understand it, mental health agencies around the state are going through the same thing, as funds from DC and Lansing are drying up for what were once considered essential services. Here in Ypsi-Arbor, according to the Ann Arbor News, our local mental health agency “will receive $2.5 million less in Medicaid funding than what was budgeted for the 2015 fiscal year and a decrease in $2.7 million from the State General Funds.” Over the past year, as I understand it, a number of efforts have been made to offset these decreases, but it hasn’t been enough. In spite of the lay-offs that have happened to date, and the consolidation of services within the newly formed Washtenaw County Community Mental Health Agency, we’re still running at a deficit… This new entity, before it even gets of the ground, already has a $4.7 million deficit for the coming fiscal year, which stars on October 1. And that’s why we’re hearing that 60 to 90 Community Support and Treatment Services (CSTS) workers may be losing their jobs, forcing the most vulnerable among us to suffer even more. [But maybe that’s the objective… to make things so miserable that they leave the state.]

If you would like to call in and join our conversation, the studio number is 734.217.8624. [Be sure to disguise your voice if you’re a County employee.] Or, if you want to suggest a question, you can leave a comment here.

And, after that, we’ll be joined by Michelle Lietz of EMU’s Native American Student Organization (NASO), who will tell us how it came to pass that the EMU administration, a few days ago, finally gave up the fight and agreed to get rid of their controversial “Huron” logo once and for all. Lietz will be joined in the studio by local historian Matt Siegfried, who will be sharing the history of the Wendat, who they were, and who they are now. [It’s the Wendat that the French incorrectly referred to as the Huron.] Speaking of the EMU mascot, have you seen the original version? I suppose it’s good that it became less overtly racist over time, but it’s hard to se it and take people seriously when they say that the mascot now comes from a place of honor. [If you’d like to hear our first interview with Lietz, back when fight between NASO and EMU was first coming to a head, you can find Episode 15 here.]

Then, toward the end of the show, local musician Craig Johnson will be dropping by to chat and play a few tunes for us.

But wait, there’s more! At some point during the evening, we’ll be joined by Rob Hess from Go Ice Cream, who will be stopping in to talk about his plans for expansion in downtown Ypsi.

sixpack23bb

AND, HERE, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE NEVER TUNED IN TO THE SIX PACK BEFORE, ARE THE DETAILS ON HOW TO LISTEN:

Unless you live inside the AM 1700 studio, right next our antenna, I’d recommend streaming the show online, which you can do either on the AM1700 website or by way of TuneIn.com.

And for those of you who aren’t yet familiar with the show, and need to get caught up, you can listen to the entire archive on iTunes. If you start now, you might be caught all the way up by show time.

One last thing… If you’d like to tell your friends and neighbors about the program, feel free to share the Facebook event listing. Or, if you’re not on Facebook, you could always rent a plane to pull a banner across the sky.

And do call us if you have a chance. We love phone calls. So please scratch this number into the cinder block wall of the recreation room of whichever facility you’ve been assigned to… 734.217.8624… and call us between 6:00 and 8:00 this Saturday evening. The show is nothing without you. And I mean that.

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50 Comments

  1. Anonymous
    Posted August 14, 2015 at 6:02 am | Permalink

    It makes very little sense to me. In the end we’ll be paying more for incarceration and law enforcement than we would have for social workers.

  2. Kit
    Posted August 14, 2015 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    Ask what we’re doing in Lansing to restore funding. Are we putting pressure on them? Are our elected officials fighting for us, or are they accepting this as appropriate austerity measure?

  3. Demetrius
    Posted August 14, 2015 at 7:33 am | Permalink

    @ Anonymous.

    I agree.

    And that doesn’t even account for the many non-directly-financial costs that will be borne by hard-working mental health professionals, suffering patients, and the communities that will be faced with increased chaos and violence.

    To me, this seems just another example of ignoring/hiding/externalizing/pushing-off the real costs so they become “somebody else’s” problem. This is the same as many decisions we are collectively making to externalize the the real costs of environmental degradation … so we can have unrealistically “cheap” products and service today … only pass the real costs on to future (theoretical) generations. (Out of sight, out of mind, right?)

    The real problem here seems to be all voters and citizens who will gladly re-elect these people, and keep going along with this childish and unrealistic nonsense … rather than face realistic (but perhaps unpleasant) realities.

  4. Eel
    Posted August 14, 2015 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    But we need our money for Segway riding greeters.

  5. Lynne
    Posted August 14, 2015 at 9:41 am | Permalink

    I think part of the problem is that there are a lot of voters in Michigan who don’t understand mental illness. They consider treating mental illness to be coddling people but these voters are perfectly ok with sending such people to prison. That one option costs a LOT more just seems lost on these folks who happen to also claim to be small government types. It is almost a text book example of cognitive dissonance. It doesn’t matter how many facts you present them with, they will still prefer to spend more money incarcerating the mental ill than to spend less money treating them in the community. I am not sure we can get to a solution when so many are so willing to spend more money locking people up even when the cheaper treatment and social work options are available.

  6. Lynne
    Posted August 14, 2015 at 9:47 am | Permalink

    Oh, and I’ll mention too that the costs of not treating mental illnesses are not limited to just the direct costs to taxpayers. You see other costs in the form of increased panhandling, more homeless people on the streets, etc. Not to mention whatever crimes people who are off their meds end up committing. I’ve seen people get weird delusions and start stalking and terrorizing others. I’ve seen people run naked through the streets. I’ve seen assaults. Not to mention things like suicide which even if you are completely selfish and don’t care if the mentally ill off themselves still represents a cost to society. There are even more indirect costs such as the loss of productivity and thus tax revenue. Let’s face it, a person with a treatable mental illness who is then able to have a full time job is not only not going to be draining resources from the system but they will actually be paying taxes. Oh also, the children of the mentally ill do better when their parents are treated and that results in those children later being much less likely to end up on prison or on welfare or whatever. This cut in spending is not going to be cheap and as tax payers, we will be paying for this for DECADES to come. Some fiscal responsibility! NOT

  7. Gag Ordered Drone
    Posted August 14, 2015 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    I’m glad Nancy Heine is able to speak on the show, Mark as the current regime at CSTS seems to be bound and determined to gag the rest of the employees from saying anything about these changes publically until they are a done deal. I think certain questions need to be asked about why these changes are proceeding at the pace they are and how this coincides with the tenable employment status of the interim director of CSTS (who is interviewing for her position at the same time as all this is taking place), and further, how the outgoing WCHO administation was able to use golden parachutes after misspending the public’s money and then retiring without any repercussions or legal indictment as to the misuse of those funds….

  8. XXX
    Posted August 14, 2015 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    The mentally ill don’t vote and they sure as hell don’t make campaign contributions. I think that explains a lot of this.

  9. Demetrius
    Posted August 14, 2015 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    There used to be a common idea in our society that there would always be people who — because they were poor, sick, mentally ill, whatever — would need to helped … and it was also understood that it was our obligation as a part of “society” to help do that.

    Increasingly, our new norm seems to be that if you are rich or otherwise advantaged, you somehow “worked” for it – and thus deserve it. Similarly, if you are poor or disadvantaged, you must have done something (or not done something) to cause that, too. Therefore, you “deserve” whatever poor fate you endure.

    I don’t mean to get to deep here, but at its root, this is really a part of what our rights and obligations mean in society.

    I don’t mean to blame people individually … but it seems that these days many people are so scared, so desperate, working so hard, etc., that they don’t have time to worry about anybody else but themselves and what they see as their immediate circle.

    In this view, what we used to think of as the “commons” (public parks and pools, public schools, health care, etc.) continues to be criticized/diminished in favor the glorification of private spaces (private, gates communities, private schools, “luxury” condos, etc.)

  10. Lynne
    Posted August 14, 2015 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

    The Class Warfare Hustle

  11. Stupid Hick
    Posted August 14, 2015 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    Ask your pet historian about “La Nation Huronne Wendat”. Does he have any historical insight about why they choose to self-identify by their offensive, French-given, “slave name”? What was their position on EMU’s decision to drop the Huron team name?

  12. Silkwood
    Posted August 14, 2015 at 7:29 pm | Permalink

    I wonder why Nancy Heine is allowed to speak. Even with her union and labor ties, she is still an employee of Washtenaw County. My guess is that she is the mouthpiece for administration. I will take what is said with a grain of salt.

    Bottom line is, by allowing these lay-offs to happen, we are putting some of our most vulnerable community members at risk and drastically affecting their quality of life. There are ways to make this work without a single person losing their job. I can only hope that the Board of Commissioners will be willing to do what is best for the people that are served.

  13. Posted August 14, 2015 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

    Looking forward to the discussion tomorrow night. I think the target is the Office of Budget and Management for the State of Michigan. I agree the County Commissioners should help and they already allocated a one time $400,000 last year to fill the critical gaps in services. But, I think this year’s gap *may* be too big for the county to take it on its own. Will be interested in both what Nancy and Yousef have to say.

  14. Posted August 14, 2015 at 10:31 pm | Permalink

    Here is an interesting read, relevant to the discussion here. I found this on State Rep. Jeff Irwin’s facespace page a few days back. We have the money. We just need to appropriately compel the decision-makers to spend it appropriately.
    http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/21582

  15. Posted August 14, 2015 at 10:33 pm | Permalink

    Yes, that is CapCon a publication of THEE Mackinac Center for Public Policy. I guess they’ve been following this issue for quite awhile.
    I know, I was surprised too. Just goes to show, always check your assumptions.

  16. Matt Siegfried
    Posted August 15, 2015 at 12:14 am | Permalink

    I may regret this, but to prevent the stupid among us from muddying the waters—

    “La Nation Huronne-Wendat”, constantly referenced by the wounded whites of Huron Restoration Inc. and who wrote a letter in 1991 in support of keeping the name “Huron” are the descendants of a small group of converted and assimilated Wendat who fled with the Jesuit priests to the Montreal area (from the Georgian Bay area of Ontario) when Wendake was overrun by the Iroquois in in 1649. They have had no political relationship with any of the descendants of the Wendat groups who settled in Michigan and were removed in 1842 (but for a few hearty families and individuals who are now constituted as the Wyandot of Anderdon Nation) since that time. They remained in Quebec where they became among the most culturally “French” of any Canadian First Nations group.

    The bulk of refugees, including all who would come to live in Michigan, fled to Lake Superior with other Iroquoian speakers and never referred, nor do they today, themselves as “Huron”. So yes I do have some “insight” into why that might be.

    And please don’t retort with Chief Bearskin.

  17. Parent Out Here
    Posted August 15, 2015 at 1:33 am | Permalink

    I understand Gag Ordered Drone and I eagerly await to hear this show.

  18. Frosted Flakes
    Posted August 15, 2015 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

    I don’t know why stupid hick and Matt need to be so mean to each other. Stupid Hick is asking a valid question/ providing an interesting angle. In my opinion, Matt is offering great information but, for the sake of his own arguments, he needs to acknowledge that stuff is not as cut and dry as he seems to want to present them.

  19. kjc
    Posted August 15, 2015 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

    I appreciate Matt’s terse acknowledgment of condescending and ignorant provocation.

  20. Frosted Flakes
    Posted August 15, 2015 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    It does seem like Stupid Hick started it but, come on. The only people that want to bring the Huron leaders reaction (in 91) into the conversation are the “wounded whites”. Isn’t their another group that might want that aspect to play a part of the conversation? Hint: The self identifying Hurons! I don’t know, this may have been addressed elsewhere….Some of us would like to know the different sides of the issue…It sounds to me like Matt might have even more good info….pretending like it is not a valid question is sort of a red flag…

  21. blueeyedpupil
    Posted August 15, 2015 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

    The mentally ill do vote. And they contribute to candidates too.

  22. EOS
    Posted August 15, 2015 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    Mental illness is a myth. It’s a rational repsonse to irrational circumstances. Ask yourself, what is the underlying physiological mechanism that causes a “nervous breakdown”? Do the nerves break down? What clinical test confirms schizophrenia? How can a single disease cause one person to be catatonic and another to have delusions of grandeur? What causes one to be paranoid and another to be incoherent? Everybody “knows” that it is a chemical imbalance. How do they measure the quantity of neurotransmitters stored in nerve vessicles to determine the imbalance?

    People who are “different” are not necessarily suffering from a mental illness that needs medication with strong psychotropic medications. We might feel safer if we keep them medicated in a drug haze but few patients prefer the treatment to the disease. And statistics show that the mentally ill are far less likely to commit crimes of violence then the general population. Unless they are prescribed some of the more recent class of selective serotonin receptor uptake inhibitors which causes a subset of the medicated to use automatic weapons to kill as many as possible in gun restricted zones.

    But by all means, let’s fund as many social workers as possible so that they can meet with the “mentally ill” on a regular basis and talk, as if you can talk someone out of a real illness.

  23. Jean Henry
    Posted August 15, 2015 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

    Dear EOS— My sweet Uncle Alfred was a deeply religious man trained in jesuit schools with a degree in Classical Greek from Berkeley. He had planned to attend Divinity School. He also suffered (greatly) from schizophrenia. He was un-medicated for about 6 disastrous years in his 20’s. Medication saved his life as it did countless others. He was lucky to be gay and find a partner to care for him and a community to support him when the rest of the world could not accept him. He attended church regularly and his dying wish was that his partner, Stewart, be baptized and join their church. This he did and still attends services twice weekly as well as Bible class. Were it not for your entrenched biases, you might have found a great deal in common with Alfred. He had as good a life as anyone carrying his burden could expect. There is ample scientific imaging proof of biological (brain) difference in schizophrenics and the effective improvement (but not cure) via medication. http://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/ss/slideshow-schizophrenia-overview
    Your position is simply one of assumption and belief where there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. Which would not phase me except that it belittles the suffering of so many patients and their families– like mine. The scientific method would have you look yourself for data to disprove your hypothesis. Maybe do the work up front next time.

  24. EOS
    Posted August 15, 2015 at 7:45 pm | Permalink

    Jean,
    If only you believed in logic I might convince you to study your slideshow and see it confirms everything I wrote. It might be this…. it might be that…. No known tests… symptoms widely variant. Some show brain changes, but some with the same brain changes have no disease or symptoms. And you are quick to claim that the family suffers. So sad.

  25. EOS
    Posted August 15, 2015 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

    http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Szasz/myth.htm

  26. Jean Henry
    Posted August 15, 2015 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

    EOS– I admire your questioning; I do not admire your certitude. It is interesting to see you simply dismiss the vast history of human suffering and experience for the sake of your belief system… circular logic at its best.
    “Here is an example of a syllogism. The cat has four paws. Isidore and Fricot (dogs) both have four paws. Therefore Isidore and Fricot are cats.” — Ionesco, Rhinoceros

  27. Jean Henry
    Posted August 15, 2015 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

    PS the article you cite dates to 1960, around the time my grandmother was told that her son was schizophrenic because she was too distant from him as a child and gay because she was too attached to him as a child. The question of what we call mental illness and how we categorize it is a good one, but even those who are thinking about the semiotics in psychiatry do not question the utility of medication used judiciously.

  28. EOS
    Posted August 15, 2015 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

    No one questions the utility of psychotropic medicines except the patients. The chemical straight jackets are usually sought after by the family who “suffers” when a member does not conform to their rigid stereotype of acceptable behaviors. But regardless of which mental illness is diagnosed, the victims are all prescribed the same medications, with few exceptions. And no one can tell you exactly how they work, merely that they are slightly better than placebos in achieving the desired results.

    Oh, you want a more recent publication?
    http://www.arachnoid.com/psychology/myth.html

    Psychiatry is to Neurology as Astrology is to Astronomy.

  29. Jean Henry
    Posted August 16, 2015 at 6:22 am | Permalink

    Well EOS you really have a very well developed world view based on your beliefs v any experience. I suggest you get out more.

  30. EOS
    Posted August 16, 2015 at 7:04 am | Permalink

    My beliefs about psychology/psychiatry are based on science. You are the one telling stories about what you believe. I don’t care to hear about your queer Uncle – show me the scientific evidence of how the medications cure the illness.

  31. Brainless
    Posted August 16, 2015 at 8:14 am | Permalink

    My god people, stop talking to the bored little weird man. You do realize that it’s just a trollbot, right? No human actually thinks that way.

    Just kidding. We all know it’s Mark getting everybody’s panties in a bunch to increase page views. But the game is up.

    Mental illness, they name is EOS.

  32. EOS
    Posted August 16, 2015 at 9:42 am | Permalink

    Why do you fear anyone who thinks differently? The worst ideas are those where everybody shakes their head in agreement without ever considering why they think the way they do. I’m neither a bot nor Mark.

  33. Posted August 16, 2015 at 11:07 am | Permalink

    What if I really am EOS and I don’t know it? What if I discover it one day in an M. Night Shyamalan-like twist, like Bruce Willis discovering that he’s actually dead in the Sixth Sense? That would be pretty incredible.

  34. Posted August 16, 2015 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

    EOS thinks the earth is only 4,000 years old.

  35. Posted August 16, 2015 at 7:05 pm | Permalink

    “Mental illness is a myth. It’s a rational response to irrational circumstances. ”

    Even for EOS, this is an incredibly stupid statement.

  36. Eel
    Posted August 19, 2015 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    How did you know Bat Girl was going to die?

  37. Jean Henry
    Posted August 19, 2015 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

    There must have been some confusion EOS. I didn’t mean to imply that my ‘queer Uncle’ was representative of the experience of mental illness. When I brought up my queer Uncle, who lived his life in daily devotion, provided safe harbor for the sick and poor, lived his life from love for every living soul, despite being assaulted by a priest when young and homophobes as an adult, who literally would not harm a fly, and who gave his entire estate including his home, which will be a LGBT youth center, to the church—I meant to imply that he was a better Christian than you..

  38. Posted August 19, 2015 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

    http://giphy.com/gifs/frustrated-applause-thumbs-up-s59Csd4R2DtQI

  39. EOS
    Posted August 20, 2015 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

    Unbelieveable. You, who thinks the Bible is not inspired by God and full of unresolvable contradictions feel qualified to determine the comparative value of anyone’s faith? How can a person live in daily devotion who willfully embraces sin and promotes it even after death? Your unwillingness to believe in logic does not benefit your thought process.

  40. Professor Hick
    Posted August 20, 2015 at 11:55 pm | Permalink

    Matt: “And please don’t retort with Chief Bearskin.”

    You’re signaling that you have a prepared response. I’ll bite because I’m truly interested. Don’t mistake me for a “wounded white”. I’m absolutely not a Huron Lost-Causer.

    I didn’t know who Leaford Bearskin was but google tells me in 1991 he was the Chief of the federally-recognized Wyandotte Nation, which has 4957 members. Which is more than the 3000 members that google tells me belong to the Huron-Wendat Nation, recognized by Canada.

    From what I read by clicking around on the web, the “wounded whites” claim the chiefs of both nations were against EMU dropping the Huron team name in 1991. Is that true?

    What I could not find on the web is whether the Wyandot Nation of Anderdon, which you mention, took a position in 1991. According to Wikipedia they only have about 1400 members, and are not federally recognized, but I’ll stipulate they have a stake. Is there any historical record of their opinion? Do you know whether EMU sought it? Do you have any insight why EMU dismissed the Huron-Wendat and Wyandotte Nations?

  41. Stupid Hick
    Posted August 21, 2015 at 12:19 am | Permalink

    EOS, were you misdiagnosed for mental illness and prescribed drugs that didn’t work? I’m just trying to understand where your opinion comes from. I have a friend who is mentally ill. I’m convinced it’s real. It’s not just a matter of him conforming to societal norms. He wasn’t always that way. Drugs help him manage his condition. So well that more than once he mistakenly thought he was “cured” and didn’t need drugs any more. In his case, a big mistake to go off the drugs. He’s lucky to be alive.

  42. Jean Henry
    Posted August 21, 2015 at 9:41 am | Permalink

    Yes I do.
    Other than the wild sex parties, my Uncle and his partner of 40 years were models of a life lived in Christ.

  43. EOS
    Posted August 21, 2015 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    Stupid Hick,

    No, I’ve never been diagnosed. But I was interested in medicinal chemistry and researched psychotropic medicines at one point. Regardless of the particular symptoms, most persons diagnosed with a psychotic illness are given the same tranquilizers which work by interfering with their ability to make conditioned responses. If a particular behavior is inappropriate, then the medicine works to limit all behavioral options. And the most commonly prescribed medicines often create lifelong irreversible side efffects. Thorazine and others in its class cause Tardive Dyskinesias. This makes a patient have Parkinson-like tremors, a shuffling gait, and lizard-like, lip smacking, repetitive motions. Stopping the medicine will not alleviate the symptoms once they start, which can sometimes accompany the first doses of medication. Patients quite frequently go off the drugs because they hate the way they make them feel. They can no longer really engage in life and they live in a mental fog, albeit they stop the most irritating behaviors.

    Most patients appear normal until adolescence or young adulthood when the pressures of life build to an unbearable point. The fear of failure is imobilizing and an “illness” is one of the few acceptable reasons to stop trying. Those persons with multiple personalities actually invent different identities to cope with the situations they can’t bear and wish to avoid. The “new” identities have the traits that they feel they lack. Sometimes the psychosis is short-lived and patients return to normal life after a short respite with no further symptoms.

    But the illness is an adaptive behavior that leads to the consequence they are seeking, whether or not they are fully cognizant of it. Once diagnosed, they no longer are expected to hold down full time jobs, pay the bills, or care for others. They can spend their life in leisure pursuits. Many prefer homelessness to work and responsibility and will even shun shelters and social workers who might try to alter their circumstances. Hard as it may be to comprehend, they prefer the illness to the social constructs of normal life.

    The pharmaceutical industry is more than willing to provide mood altering chemical substances. Antidepressants are the most heavily prescribed medications in America, with the majority of persons taking them at some point in their life. Who doesn’t want a pill to make their life happier and more pleasant? ADD/AHD is another diagnosis that has no confirmatory clinical test, but has skyrocketed in recent years. Teachers and parents want docile children who will sit quietly and not cause difficulties.

  44. EOS
    Posted August 21, 2015 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    Jean,

    Christ has no part with sexual immorality of any kind. It is impossible to be “in Christ” and to be simultaneously engaged in wild sex parties.

    1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

    The operative word is “were”.

  45. Jean Henry
    Posted August 21, 2015 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

    We are all sinners, EOS. Even you.

  46. EOS
    Posted August 21, 2015 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

    Yes, the difference is I am ashamed of my sins. I don’t join a church that accepts them and I’m not trying to convince others that my sin is good.

  47. John Galt
    Posted August 21, 2015 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    I think it’s great that EOS proudly stands up and says that he follows the commandments to of the bible to the letter. We need more men like him.

    EOS, when you have a chance, please post a photo of your beard. I’d love to see it.

    “Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.” (Leviticus 19:27)

  48. EOS
    Posted August 21, 2015 at 1:29 pm | Permalink

    John,

    I said nothing like what you wrote. I am a sinner. But the Levitical law pertaining to beards does not apply today. It was for a particular people and time, unlike the New Testament commands against sexual immorality. If you want to google it you can find numerous places on the Internet to clear up your confusion.

  49. EOS
    Posted August 21, 2015 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

    http://crossexamined.org/cherry-picking-the-bible-are-christians-expected-to-follow-the-levitical-laws/

  50. XXX
    Posted August 21, 2015 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    So you know better than God? I though the Bible was the infallible word of the almighty. But now you’re telling me that some of it is outdated. Who decided that, EOS? Did God tell you that some of his laws can now be ignored, or did you figure that out for yourself?

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